ICEBlock Retaliation (feat. Kel McClanahan; Carolyn Feinstein)

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Beans - "ICEBlock Retaliation" (Feat. Kel McClanahan & Carolyn Feinstein) Release Date: July 21, 2025

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Introduction In the latest episode of The Daily Beans, hosted by Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg from MSW Media, the duo delves into a spectrum of pressing political and social issues with their characteristic blend of progressive insights and sharp wit. This episode, titled "ICEBlock Retaliation," features in-depth discussions with legal expert Kel McClanahan and Carolyn Feinstein, a former Department of Justice (DOJ) employee who alleges retaliatory termination.

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Key Topics Discussed

1. Donald Trump's Lawsuits and Media Conflicts

   • $10 Billion Lawsuit Against Wall Street Journal

     • Timestamp [08:04]: Allison Gill outlines President Donald Trump's $10 billion lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal and its parent company, News Corp. The suit alleges defamation over an article claiming Trump sent a birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein, which the lawsuit claims contains no authentic evidence.
     • Quote [08:33] Allison Gill: "This lawsuit is bananas. $10 billion he's suing for."

   • Dismissal of Lawsuit Against Bob Woodward

     • Timestamp [09:46]: The episode covers the dismissal of Trump's lawsuit against journalist Bob Woodward. U.S. District Judge Paul Gardafford Jr. dismissed the case, citing that Trump failed to demonstrate a plausible copyright interest in the "Trump Tapes," an audiobook containing interviews with Trump.
     • Quote [10:35] Allison Gill: "He loves suing people. He loves suing people. We'll see how all this shakes out."

   • Cancellation of Stephen Colbert's Late Show

     • Timestamp [13:00]: Discussion centers on CBS's sudden cancellation of "The Late Show with Stephen Colbert" three days after Colbert criticized Paramount for settling a $16 million lawsuit with Trump over an edited 60 Minutes interview with Kamala Harris.
     • Quote [15:02] Dana Goldberg: "I just, my question is... why not do it immediately?"

   • Paramount's Settlement and Political Pressure

     • Timestamp [14:58]: The hosts explore accusations that Paramount's settlement with Trump was a bribe, leading to the cancellation of Colbert's show. Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders criticized the move, suggesting it was politically motivated.
     • Quote [16:20] Dana Goldberg: "It is a scary precedent that's being set."

   • Trump's Comments on Late Show Cancellation

     • Timestamp [17:09]: President Trump publicly praised the cancellation, hinting at further actions against other late-night hosts.
     • Quote [17:40] Allison Gill: "He says Jimmy Kimmel is next. Has even less talent than Colbert."

2. ICE's Access to Medicaid Enrollees' Personal Information

   • Timestamp [18:47]: The administration's new agreement allows Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) to access personal data of approximately 80 million Medicaid enrollees to identify and locate individuals believed to be unlawfully present in the country.
   • Quote [18:55] Dana Goldberg: "Such a violation, such as..."

3. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) Cuts

   • Timestamp [19:00]: The EPA announced the elimination of its scientific research arm, leading to the dismissal of hundreds of scientists. This move is part of broader efforts by the Trump administration to reduce the federal workforce and weaken regulatory agencies.
   • Quote [20:15] Dana Goldberg: "Yeah. They just want to. They hate science."

4. Idaho's Consent Decree on Abortion Referrals

   • Timestamp [20:50]: A significant legal development where Idaho Attorney General Raul Labrador and Ada and Valley County prosecutors agree to a consent decree that prohibits prosecuting healthcare providers for referring patients for out-of-state abortions. The decree also mandates the AG's office to pay $400,000 in legal fees.
   • Quote [21:27] Dana Goldberg: "Absolutely. And all right, here we go."

5. WNBA All-Star Game and Player Protests

   • Timestamp [21:30]: The episode highlights the WNBA All-Star Game where players, including Feasa Collier, demanded higher pay by wearing shirts that read "Pay Us What You Owe Us." The crowd's response was overwhelmingly supportive, echoing the players' call for better compensation.
   • Quote [23:31] Allison Gill: "That's I love this so much. So they wore the shirts of Warmup and then at the trophy ceremony the crowd started chanting wow."

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Guest Interviews

1. Carolyn Feinstein: Retaliatory Termination from DOJ

   • Timestamp [26:11]: Allison Gill welcomes Carolyn Feinstein, a former DOJ forensic accountant, who discusses her sudden termination, which she claims was retaliation for her husband Joshua Aaron's activism through the ICE Block app—a tool used to notify communities of impending ICE raids.

   • Quote [27:59] Carolyn Feinstein: "They were making multiple posts on X and likely other platforms... subsequently, Tom Holman went on Newsmax and said... I had received that termination email."

   • Impact on DOJ Morale

     • Timestamp [33:51]: Feinstein elaborates on the declining morale within the DOJ, attributing it to the administration's negative rhetoric towards federal employees.
     • Quote [35:30] Carolyn Feinstein: "Federal employees are resilient. They're strong, they're patient...dedicated to making the country a better place."

   • Summary of Termination Circumstances

     • Timestamp [42:14]: Feinstein recounts her tenure at the DOJ and the abruptness of her firing, emphasizing the lack of due process and the broader pattern of retaliatory actions against federal employees.
     • Quote [43:40] Carolyn Feinstein: "As a fan and a former Fed, it's appreciated."

2. Kel McClanahan: Legal Strategies Against Trump Administration

   • Timestamp [47:03]: Allison Gill introduces Kel McClanahan from National Security Counselors, who discusses the legal actions underway to obtain grand jury transcripts related to Jeffrey Epstein through a Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request.

   • Quote [50:47] Kel McClanahan: "So we're saying, but don't weigh in on privacy stuff, because while we don't want the victim's information... it's a question for the judge."

   • Legal Implications of Trump's Public Statements

     • Timestamp [57:14]: McClanahan explains how President Trump's public directive may have waived certain legal protections, forcing the DOJ to contend with releasing sensitive information.
     • Quote [62:15] Allison Gill: "He did the work. He did the work."

   • Call to Action for Supporters

     • Timestamp [64:01]: Kel urges listeners to support the legal efforts by donating to National Security Counselors, emphasizing the importance of transparency and accountability.
     • Quote [65:16] Allison Gill: "Tell Joshua we said hello and I hope that we get to speak to you again soon."

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Legal Actions and Future Developments

• Allison Gill's Lawsuit Over Epstein Transcripts

  • Allison Gill discusses her lawsuit aimed at accessing all grand jury transcripts related to Epstein, pushing for greater transparency and accountability within the DOJ and Trump administration.

• Kel McClanahan's Legal Strategy

  • Kel outlines the strategy to compel the release of grand jury testimony, leveraging Trump's public statements to bypass traditional legal protections.

• Potential Motions and Court Proceedings

  • The hosts anticipate forthcoming legal motions that will challenge the DOJ's handling of the Epstein files, with the goal of exposing any undue influence or hidden information.

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Good News Segment

The hosts conclude the episode with a "Good News" segment, featuring listener submissions celebrating personal achievements, community activism, and heartwarming animal stories. Highlights include:

• Celeste's Support for SNAP Program Discussions

  • Timestamp [68:15]: Celeste shares her involvement in advocating against rules that require states to share SNAP information with federal authorities.

• Brian's Testimonial on Overcoming Adversity

  • Timestamp [70:33]: Brian honors his wife, Lee, for her unwavering support during his recovery from a stroke and multiple broken ankles, celebrating her professional achievements and their rescue pets.

• Tanya's Community Efforts in Indiana

  • Timestamp [71:40]: Tanya highlights Boone County Democrats organizing food drives to support children affected by cut funding for summer lunch programs.

• Rachel's Artistic Activism in Montgomery, Alabama

  • Timestamp [72:57]: Rachel showcases her artwork displayed at a Good Trouble protest, emphasizing the role of art in civil rights activism.

• Deb's Positive Experiences at Protests

  • Timestamp [73:02]: Deb recounts her positive interactions at Good Trouble protests in Washington state, particularly the inspiration drawn from involving her child in activism.

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Conclusion

The Daily Beans episode "ICEBlock Retaliation" offers a comprehensive look into the intersection of media, politics, and personal activism. Through candid interviews and incisive analysis, Allison Gill and Dana Goldberg shed light on controversial legal battles, retaliatory actions within federal agencies, and the enduring spirit of activism within communities and professional spheres. The episode not only informs but also empowers listeners to engage in meaningful "good trouble" for social justice.

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Notable Quotes

• Allison Gill [08:33]: "This lawsuit is bananas. $10 billion he's suing for."
• Dana Goldberg [15:02]: "My question is... why not do it immediately?"
• Carolyn Feinstein [27:59]: "None of that is true. And that's one of the reasons I'm really thankful."
• Kel McClanahan [50:47]: "Instead of withholding information, they have to justify it to whatever judge we sue with for this FOIA request."
• Dana Goldberg [20:15]: "Yeah. They just want to. They hate science."

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Final Thoughts

This episode underscores the persistent challenges and resistance faced by federal employees and activists in maintaining integrity and transparency within governmental institutions. The Daily Beans continues to provide a platform for crucial conversations, fostering awareness and encouraging proactive engagement among its listeners.

Transcript

[Allison Gill]

MSW Media hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Monday, July 21, 2025. Today, Donald Trump has filed a $10 billion lawsuit against Rupert Murdoch in the Wall Street Journal for publishing information about a birthday note Trump sent to Epstein. A judge has dismissed Trump's lawsuit against Bob Woodward. CBS has canceled the Late show with Stephen Colbert three days after he slammed Paramount for settling with Trump over editing the 60 Minutes interview with Kamala Harris. ICE will get access to Medicaid enrollees personal information. The EPA says it's going to eliminate its scientific research arm, ID agrees not to prosecute doctors for out of state abortion referrals. And WNBA All Stars don shirts that read pay us what you owe us during the All Star game trophy ceremony. I'm Allison Gill.

[Dana Goldberg]

And I'm Dana Goldberg.

[Allison Gill]

Hi, Dana. Happy Monday.

[Dana Goldberg]

Happy Monday to you, my friend. How are you holding up?

[Allison Gill]

I'm holding up good. We've got some better news stories for the end of the A block and I'm really looking forward to that. We're going to turn into a sports reporting network again.

[Dana Goldberg]

Fantastic. I like when we do that.

[Allison Gill]

You know, makes me happy with these wonderful WNBA players.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, they, they're really, they're walking the walk and they're being very vocal about it and they're not backing down. And I love to see it. They need to be paid.

[Allison Gill]

Yep. And the people support it, too. I love it. You love to see it. Also later in the show, I'm going to be Talking with Kel McClanahan of National Security Counselors. He's, he's the, this lawyer and the law firm that's helping me sue Doge, but also MSW Media and the Daily Beans is now suing for all the Epstein grand jury testim.

[Dana Goldberg]

Nice.

[Allison Gill]

Not just the pertinent files as told Pam Bondi to ask the court to release. So we want to back him into a corner so he can't blame the courts for when nothing comes out. I love that I'm going to be talking to Kel later in the in the show. And also, Dana, this weekend I spoke to an analyst that worked on the review of the Epstein files at the FBI. And I've written that [e-mail] Again, it's a free publication. It's an exclusive for us in the Daily Beans. So check that out. No paywalls. Like I said, all my stuff is free always. And so quite an interesting conversation. Just learned a couple of pretty standout things. There is a log of the mentions of Donald Trump in the Epstein files that they were told to flag and that log exists. And there are also video trainings that went out about how to flag the instances of Donald Trump in those files. Plus we can confirm that he is in the files. And I mean, just a lot of stuff that came, came out. So that is a very interesting discussion that you can read about@ militiaroad.com and also today, do you remember back, gosh, it seems like years ago, but it was probably last week when we had Joshua Aaron on the program. He's the developer of the ICE Block app that allows users to go in and say where ICE is or if there's an ICE raid in their neighborhood. Well, I got word recently that a high level Department of Justice analyst and the wife of the Ice Block app developer has been fired in retaliation from her job at the Department of Justice. Her name is Carolyn Feinstein and I'm gonna be talking with her today later in the show. And also, Everybody, this Sunday, July 27th, I'll be hosting an evening with Representative Sarah Jacobs at another Darrell Issa empty chair town hall.

[Dana Goldberg]

Fantastic.

[Allison Gill]

He's refusing to meet with his constituents. Sarah Jacobs will be fielding questions. The last one we had, we had 1,000 people was overflow. It was massive. Again, that's July 27, 4pm at the California center for the Arts in Escondido. And Dana, you're coming to San Diego.

[Dana Goldberg]

I am. I'm coming to San Diego August 15th. And for those of you that got tickets already, good for you. Because it appears the 7pm show sold out in four days. When I said it's an intimate theater, there's only 100 seats. So we are checking to make sure that's not a glitch on the computer. And as soon as we know one way or the other, we are going to release a 9pm show. So if you were like, ah, shit, I want tickets. We were doing something this week and I didn't get a chance. You still, you still will have an opportunity. We're going to release the 9pm Show. So go to my website, danagoldberg.com hit appearances. It's the second one down still because I still have a gig on Monday. I'm actually doing a gala for the judges. It's a justice gala. All the lawyers and the judges who are actually doing what they need to be doing during this time, it's the lawyers, I should say, not the judges because they're supposed to be impartial. But these lawyers are doing fantastic job fighting this administration. And I'm going to go to San Francisco, do a gala with them. So. But get your tickets for San Diego before the second show sells out, because it will.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. Congrats, my friend. I'm excited. I'm.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes, you are. 7:00pm yes, indeed.

[Allison Gill]

Also, just a real quick story. You know all the Venezuelans who were disappeared to Seacoat, they're free after having been returned to Venezuela. Not here, but they've been returned to Venezuela in an apparent prisoner swap, including Audrey the gay stylist. Also including the man who had that autism awareness tattoo of his brother. Yes, they're all there, over 200 in all. And we're going to cover some of their stories on tomorrow's Daily Beans. They still haven't received due process, so we'll see. But there has been a filing on Boberg's docket regarding this because now out of Seacoat, at least. All right, everybody, we have a lot of news to get to. Let's hit the hot note. Hot notes. All right. First up from NBC, Senate Democratic Whip Dick Durbin pressed Justice Department leadership about their handling of files related to the federal investigation into the late Jeffrey Epstein, including reports that the FBI personnel were instructed to flag any records that mentioned President Donald Trump. In a series of oversight letters written to Attorney General Pam Bondi, FBI Director Kash Patel and FBI Deputy Director Dan Bongino, Dick Durbin questioned Bondi about contradictions in her public statements of the case. Question Patel about reports that he was pressured by Bondi to place 1000 personnel on 24 hour shifts to mine roughly 100,000. Epstein related records and questions to Bongino about reported disputes among Trump officials about the lack of transparency in their handling of the high profile case. Now, in the letter sent Friday, Durbin, the top Democrat on the Senate Judiciary Committee, asked each of the Trump administration officials to respond to information received by his office that suggests that FBI personnel were specifically instructed to flag any records mentioning Trump. Quote, my office was told that these personnel were instructed to flag any records in which President Trump was mentioned. Why were personnel told to flag records in which President Trump was mentioned? That's what Durbin asked Bondi, Patel and Bongino. And what happened to the records mentioning President Trump once they were flagged? And like I said, I've spoken, spoken to an analyst who did this and have some of those answers. But I can confirm they were told to flag instances of Donald Trump. And after I read these letters from Senator Durbin, Dana, I put out on Blue sky if you're one of the thousand FBI agents that were tasked with this, by the way. First of all, bang up job Pam Bondi, Kash Patel, and Dan Bongino of putting a thousand eyes on these files. Yep.

[Dana Goldberg]

Well done.

[Allison Gill]

But I said, if you're one of them, reach out. I'll keep you anonymous. And several did. And I've written up what I learned [e-mail].

[Dana Goldberg]

Amazing. Amazing, my friend. All right, this one's from the Wall Street Journal. President Trump on Friday filed a lawsuit against the publisher of the Wall Street Journal, alleging the newspaper defamed him in an article about a birthday letter sent to disgraced financier and child pedophile Jeffrey Epstein. Now, the lawsuit filed in court in the Southern District of Florida. It includes as defendants Dow Jones & Co. And its parent company, News Corp.

[Allison Gill]

The Southern District of Florida.

[Dana Goldberg]

Uh huh.

[Allison Gill]

Who sits there? Is it Judge Eileen Cannon?

[Dana Goldberg]

I think it is, as there's some shopping going on. Hmm. It also Corp. Chair Rupert Murdoch, it's Chief Executive Robert Thomas, and two Journal reporters. So the suit alleges that the article in question falsely claimed that Trump in 2003 wrote and signed a letter that included a drawing of a naked woman of. For Epstein's 50th. No authentic letter or drawing exists. That's according to the suit. No authentic letter or drawing exists. Quote, defendants concocted the story to malign President Trump's character and integrity and deceptively portray him in a false light. By the way, a Dow Jones spokeswoman said, we have full confidence in the rigor and accuracy of our reporting and will vigorously defend against any lawsuit. This is from News Corp. And they didn't immediately respond to a quest for comment. But we said, we told you this at the top. This lawsuit is bananas. $10 billion he's suing for.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, and I love the no authentic letter or drawing exists, meaning Trump has the original and somebody made copies. Yeah. I wonder if it was in the boxes of stuff at Mar a Lago that he didn't give back.

[Dana Goldberg]

I'll find out.

[Allison Gill]

20 boxes or so missing. All right. In a related story from cnn, President Trump's lawsuit against journalist Bob Woodward publishing house Simon and Schuster, was dismissed by a federal judge Friday. The same day Trump filed a new and unrelated lawsuit against the Wall Street Journal. U.S. district Judge Paul Gardeff or Gardafi, not sure how to pronounce that. Of the Southern District of New York, gave Trump's legal team a month to file another amended complaint. But for now, he dismissed the current iteration and said, quote, it appears unlikely that Trump can adequately plead A plausible copyright interest in, quote, the Trump tapes, unquote. Oh, my gosh. That was the name of an audiobook released by Woodward in 2022, by the way, which contained the 20 interviews that the veteran journalist conducted with Trump from 2016 through 2020. I wish he would have released it sooner, but here we are. Trump filed the lawsuit in 2023, claiming Woodward had released the audio from their interviews without Trump's consent. Uhhuh. He initially sought nearly 50 million in damages, a drop in the well compared to the 10 billion he's suing the Journal for. Trump's lawsuit claimed the audio was, quote, protected material subject to various limitations on use and distribution.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, my God. He. He loves suing people. He loves suing people. We'll see how all this shakes out. But like you said, there's too many people that have seen this. And it was Gayly Maskwell that actually put this book together. Bound. It had a bound in leather. It's just. I can't. He's such a disgusting monster. Okay, we are moving on. This one's from the Guardian. The Writers Guild of America has called on New York state officials to launch an investigation into Paramount following its sudden decision to just cancel the Late show with Stephen Colbert. In a strongly worded statement issued on Friday, the Writers Guild of America east and the Writers Guild of America west asked the New York State Attorney General, Letitia James, to investigate Paramount over, and I quote, potential wrong. As the company announced the cancellation of the Late show on Thursday, the unions pointed to Paramount's decision earlier this month to settle what is condemned as a, quote, basele. This lawsuit brought against 60 Minutes and CBS News by Trump for $16 million. Trump had claimed that CBS News misleadingly edited an interview with Kamala Harris, blah, blah, blah. We've heard this last fall during the presidential campaign. Citing the California State Senate's decision in May to launch an inquiry into Paramount $16 million settlement with Trump as president. The union said, and I quote, given Paramount's recent capitulation to Trump in the CBS News lawsuit, the Writers Guild of America has significant concerns that the Late Show's cancellation is a bribe, sacrificing free speech to curry favor with the Trump administration as the company looks for merger approval. Uh huh. It continued, cancellations are part of the business, but a corporation terminating a show in bad faith due to explicit or implicit political pressure, it's dangerous and unacceptable in a democratic society. Paramount's decision, against a backdrop of relentless attacks on free speech by President Trump through lawsuits against CBS and abc, threatened Litigation of media organizations with critical coverage and unconscionable defunding of PBS and npr. The unions called on James to launch an investigation into Paramount, saying that she is, quote, no stranger to prosecuting Trump for legal business practices. Right. We call on our elected leaders to hold those responsible to account, to demand answers about why this beloved program was canceled, and to assure the public that Colbert and his writers were not censored due to their views or the whims of the president. That was from the wga. The cancellation comes after Colbert, who has long been a critic of Trump on his show, called Paramount settlement a big fat bribe on air Monday, quote, as someone who has always been a proud employee of this network, I am offended. I don't know if anything, anything will repair my trust in this company, but just taking a stab at it, I'd say 16 million would help. That's what he said, echoing Colbert's disapproval. Jon Stewart, who works for Comedy Central, which is also owned by Paramount, condemned the deal on air last week, calling it shameful. He said, I would assume internally this is devastating to the people who work in a place that prides themselves on contextual good journalism. Yep. Following Paramount's announcement, numerous lawmakers have weighed in on the cancellation, casting skepticism at the company. The Massachusetts senator, the incredible Elizabeth Warren wrote on Twitter, cbs canceled Colbert show just three days after Colbert. Goodness, everyone, sorry about that. Called out CBS parent company paramount for its $16 million settlement with Trump, a deal that looks like bribery. Similarly, the Vermont senator, Bernie Sanders said, and I quote, cbs's billionaire owners pay Trump 16 million to sett a bogus lawsuit while trying to sell the network to Skydance. Stephen Colbert, an extraordinary talent and the most popular late night host, slams the deal. Days later, he's fired. Do I think this is a coincidence? Bernie Sanders said, no, man, this is.

[Allison Gill]

Just so up and fascistic.

[Dana Goldberg]

I just, My question is, if they're canceling the show, and listen, I'm not defending anyone because I think this is politically motivated, why not do it immediately? Why are they doing it next year? Do you have any idea?

[Allison Gill]

No, I don't, but they said it was financial, which is bullshit. He's the top ratings earner.

[Dana Goldberg]

Because if it's financial, I mean, what, you would have to pay out his contract if you did it immediately. I'm sure you'll have to pay out his contract if you do it next year.

[Allison Gill]

Well, I think the reason they're doing it next year is because that's his contract. So they're just not renewing his contract is my guess.

[Dana Goldberg]

Got it.

[Allison Gill]

But this is clearly because of what he said, 100%. And I hope that there are investigations into this because this is, you know, in this environment of crazy that happens every day, this is like, oh, another thing.

[Dana Goldberg]

Right.

[Allison Gill]

But when you pull it out and look at it separately, how dangerous it is.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

To silence comedians.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

That joke about our leaders, this is just fucked up.

[Dana Goldberg]

It is a scary precedent that's being set.

[Allison Gill]

And Stephen Colbert is one of the most fantastic people on the planet. So I'm just, I'm beside myself. I'm so sad about this. This one is a gut punch.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. I hope wherever he ends up is ten times more popular. And I've seen it coming down the road, Dana, with corporate media and these corporate conglomerates and the consolidation of media. Yeah. It's like what happened with music when the record labels got too big. The independent artists said fuck you and destroyed the music labels.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And that's what's going to happen if nobody watches Paramount, Skydance. Good luck on your merger.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yep. I know a lot of people have already canceled their subscription to Paramount. A lot.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. Myself included. It's just, it's shortsighted. It's fascistic. It's idiotic. It's bad business.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And I think they're going to learn the hard way. They're going to. They're going to go the way of the dodo, just like the major record labels did.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And independent media, whether it's comedy news, art is going to be the way forward. All right. President Trump weighed in, by the way, on this announcement that they canceled Stephen Colbert. And he's also hopeful that Jimmy Kimmel will be next. He said, I absolutely love that Colbert got fired. His talent was even less than his ratings.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, boy.

[Allison Gill]

I hear Jimmy Kimmel is next. Has even less talent than Colbert. So. Yeah. Tell me this wasn't politically driven. Yeah. All right, next up from NBC, the Trump administration will start sharing the personal information of about 80 million Medicaid enrollees, including home addresses and ethnicities, with federal immigration authorities as the president seeks to ramp up deportations. The Associated Press first reported the new agreement, which hasn't been made public yet. Immigrants who lack legal status and some lawfully present immigrants are already barred from enrolling in Medicaid, a federal health services program that provides nearly free coverage to beneficiaries. Yet federal law requires all states to offer emergency Medicaid temporary coverage that pays only for life saving services in emergency rooms to anyone, regardless of immigration status. That federal law was passed by Republicans, by the way, joint between the states and the federal government. And under the agreement, this new agreement, officials from ICE will use Medicaid data to get identity and location information and nationality information of people that ICE believes are in the country unlawfully.

[Dana Goldberg]

Such a violation, such as. Okay, this one's from the Times, everyone. The Environmental Protection Agency said on Friday that it would eliminate its scientific research arm. What? And begin firing hundreds of chemists, biologists, toxicologists and other scientists after denying for months that it intended to do exactly that. The move underscores how the Trump administration is forging ahead with efforts to slash the federal workforce and dismantle federal agencies after the Supreme Court allowed these plans to proceed. While legal challenges unfold, government scientists have been particular targets of the administration's large scale layoffs. The decision to dismantle the EPA's Office of Research and Development. It's been widely expected since March, when a leaked document. A leaked document that called for eliminating the office was first reported by the New York Times. But until Friday, the Trump administration maintained that no final decision had been made. Bullshit. The EPA Science Office provides the independent research that underpins nearly all of the agency's policies and regulations. It has analyzed the risks of hazardous chemicals, the impact of. Of wildfire smoke on public health, and the contamination of drinking water by hydraulic fracturing, otherwise known as fracking. Now, its research has often justified stricter environmental rules, prompting pushback from chemical manufacturers and other industries who are making billions of dollars. Off our health.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. Off of killing us. Yeah. They just want to. They hate science.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

There's no other way to put it. Science, art, expression, comedy, laughing. They fucking hate it all and they want to get rid of it. And they also hate the federal government, even though they all work there. All right. And better news. Better news from the aclu, Idaho Attorney General Raul Labrador and the Ada and Valley county prosecutors have agreed to be bound by a decree that permanently blocks them from prosecuting health care providers for referring patients for abortions out of state. This is great news. The consent decree was signed today by U.S. district Judge B. Lynn Windmill. Under terms of the decree, the Attorney General and county prosecutors are prohibited from sanctioning or prosecuting the plaintiffs for referring, counseling about, or otherwise offering information to patients who seek abortion outside Idaho's borders. In addition, the Attorney General's Office must pay $400,000 in legal fees. The settlement ensures that Idaho healthcare providers may continue offering comprehensive counseling and assistance to their patients, including information about healthcare that is legal in other states without fear of being penalized by the attorney general or state prosecutors. So good job to the ACLU for getting that settlement.

[Dana Goldberg]

Absolutely. And all right, here we go. We're going sports everyone. This is from espn. As WNBA commissioner Kathy Engelbert awarded Minnesota Links forward and feasa Collier the 2025 All Star Game MVP trophy. And she deserved it by the chants of pay them rained down from a sold out crowd of over 16,000 in Gainbridge Field House. The noise was booming, some of the loudest chants of the night, and a small grin spread across Collier's face. The fans echoed the message players sent during warm up Saturday night when they wore black shirts that read pay us what you owe us. The collective demonstration occurred two days after more than 40 players met with the league in the last round of collective bargaining agreement negotiations. The players didn't think the meeting produced enough progress with a late October date looming. So as a national audience tuned into one of the most highly anticipated WNBA All Star games to date and I watched it and it was a lot of fun. The players put a spotlight on their behind the scenes fight to secure higher salaries and larger piece of the revenue as they should. They are selling at arenas all over the country and I quote that was a powerful moment. That's from Los Angeles Sparks guard Kelsey Plumb. She said that of the crowd support we didn't, at least as players we didn't know that it was going to happen. So it was a genuine surprise. Those chants tonight, those signs, it just shows that as players we are united but the fans, they are united in believing what we're seeking. The fans making that chant call, you're added that gave me chills. Knowing they wanted to make a statement Saturday night, the players gathered for a closed door meeting in the morning and decided that wearing shirts would send their message in a clear, concise way. And I quote, we wanted to do something that was united as a collective and I thought that it's a powerful moment and it got the point across again. This is from Plumb and went on to say sometimes you don't have to say anything outstanding.

[Allison Gill]

That's I love this so much. So they wore the shirts of Warmup and then at the trophy ceremony the crowd started chanting wow.

[Dana Goldberg]

So good.

[Allison Gill]

So very cool. That is some excellent good trouble and we have some good trouble today. But we're going to hit the good trouble as the first entry in our good news segment and we'll get to the good news at the end of the show. But first we need to take a quick break so everybody Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. Right now, the headlines are chock full of data breaches and regulatory rollbacks, making us all vulnerable. But you can do something about it. Delete Me is here to make it easy, quick, and safe to remove your personal data online. With Delete Me, I protect both my personal privacy and the privacy of my business. As someone with an active online presence, privacy is really important to me. I've gotten more than a few emails over the years saying my data's been breached. Names, addresses, even parts of my Social Security number. All of it just out there floating around the Internet for people to find. And that's when I started using Delete. They do the hard work of removing my personal info from data broker websites. It's not a one and done thing either. DeleteMe keeps working in the background, continuously monitoring and deleting my information for me. All I had to do was sign up, tell them what information I wanted removed, and their privacy experts handled the rest. Every few weeks, I get a personalized report showing where my data was found, what they removed, what they're still tracking, and how many hours of time they saved me from having to do it myself. It's unsettling how much of our personal information is just floating around out there. But with Delete Me, I feel a lot more in control of what is out there, and it's been a game changer for my peace of mind. So take control of your data and keep your private life private by signing up for Delete Me now at a special discount for listeners. Get 20% off your DeleteMe plan when you go to JoinDeleteMe.com DailyBeans and use promo code DailyBeans at checkout. Again, the only way to get 20% off is to go to JoinDeleteMe.comDailyBeans and enter code DAILYBEANS at checkout. Again, join DeleteMe.com DailyBeans code DailyBeans hey, everybody, welcome back. I am very happy and honored to be joined today by a fellow former federal worker who was just fired from the Department of Justice this past Friday in apparent retaliation for what I think would be a violation of First Amendment free speech and politics and political reasons. There's a lot of that retaliation going on on at the Department of Justice right now. If you listen to the Unjustified podcast, we covered that. Multiple firings of people who worked on January 6th and the documents cases, and even the ethics lawyer advisor to Attorney General Pam Bondi. So I really wanted to speak with this person because I think that this story is important, and I think that all human stories from the federal government are important, and we need to get them out there. So please welcome Carolyn Feinstein. Hi, Carolyn, how are you today?

[Dana Goldberg]

Hi.

[C]

I'm doing well. Thank you for having me.

[Allison Gill]

I'm so glad to be talking to you, and I wish better circumstances, but I wanted you to talk a little bit about your position, former position at the Department of Justice, what you did and what happened on Friday. Sure.

[C]

Well, by trade, I'm a forensic accountant. So for the better part of a decade, I worked for the Department of Justice in the office of the US Trustee. If you're not familiar with the US Trustee program, it's a small program in the DOJ that's referred to as the watchdog of the bankruptcy system. A good part of my job as an auditor was to use my forensic accounting skills to detect and root out fraud and abuse against that system. So this past Friday, on Friday, that all changed. Out of the blue, I got an email informing me that I was terminated, effective immediately. There was no notice and no phone call. It was just an immediate termination via email.

[Allison Gill]

Oh, my gosh. And there's something that we should tell the listeners.

[C]

Well, the thing is, I wasn't just terminated. I was targeted. I was fired as retaliation for my husband's activism. My husband is Joshua Aaron, the developer of the. The Ice Block app. And I know you and your listeners are familiar with Ice Block. You've mentioned it a number of times on your show, and we all heard the episode where you had Joshua on as a guest. And to say this administration is unhappy with the app is an understatement, especially with the horrible things they've been saying about it and him in media.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, and let's talk a little bit about that, because when I interviewed Joshua, we had talked about the negative things that had come out about him up to that point, but we haven't discussed on the show the attacks on you personally from right wing media personalities, people on Twitter and the government. Can you talk a little bit about that sort of blowback that you've seen since the Ice Block app became kind of target practice for this. This particular regime, but how that personally impacted you leading up to your firing on Friday?

[C]

Sure. It's been probably about a week and a half since people realized I was married to Joshua Aaron. It was never concealed or secret. I think people just hadn't realized it yet. And then last week, Laura Loomer doxed me on X. Since Then there has been an outcry for my firing, accusing me of everything from providing information to the app through my position with the US Trustee to outright treason. And none of that is true. And that's one of the reasons I'm really thankful. I'm happy you had me on today so I can set the record straight.

[Allison Gill]

I'm also very glad to talk to you. And one of the main reasons is we know Laura Loomer has the president's ear, no matter how much he says or pushes her aside. Kind of how he called Sidney Powell crazy, but then continued to work with her in, you know, in. After the January 6 attack on the Capitol. But Laura Loomer is the one who recommended that certain people in the signal gate situation be fired or deemed the fall guy in those specific instances. So it's not out of the realm of possibility for. For you to believe that this firing, which you were given no explanation for, is retaliatory.

[C]

Oh, there's also a direct line that Laura Loomer and parts of the administration provided via media. Laura Loomer was calling for my firing and making multiple posts on X and likely other platforms. Subsequently, Tom Holman went on Newsmax and said, hey, Laura Loomer sent me, Caroline Feinstein, this name. I'm going to send it to PAM Bondi. Within 24 hours of that statement, I had received that termination email.

[Allison Gill]

We actually have that clip of Tom Homan on Newsmax a few days ago.

[D]

I want to ask you this finally, before I let you go. This ICE Block app that I know you've been dealing with, this app that's designed to basically disrupt your immigration raids, to let people know that one's coming to dox your agents. Laura Loomer, who actually digs up some pretty incredible stuff, we see her all the time on Twitter, on X, is reporting that the wife of the creator, the creator's name is Joshua Aaron. She's reporting that the wife of the creator is currently working at the DOJ under Pam Bondi. She's an auditor named Carolyn Feinstein. Is that information that the DOJ should be aware of? I mean, that's something to me.

[E]

They're aware of it. I mean, Laura Loomer sent that to me and I sent it to T. O.J. so we'll see where.

[Allison Gill]

Well, that seems like a pretty direct line. I'd say so, yeah. And I think it would give. I think it would give a jury something to know in some sort of a legal proceeding. Have you considered that, or do you know what you're going to do, or have you talked with anybody about what you're going to do now that you have been fired and pretty apparently for retaliation because of your association with your husband's activism?

[C]

I'm considering various avenues is all I can say about that at the moment. It's still kind of raw. This is a bit of a grieving process where I committed, happily and wholeheartedly committed my career to public service, and I had every plan to retire from the doj. And now we're just a few days after I've been terminated, and I'm going through the various stages of grieving, just trying to acclimate to no longer being part of that DOJ family?

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, let's talk a little bit more about that. I went through that when I was fired during the first Trump administration. I still don't think I've fully processed it because there was just so much else going on that I had picked up and ran with that. I've kind of compartmentalized it. I'm real good. I can dissociate with the best of them. I just, you know, should put that out there. But it's, it's disheartening. It's. It's a. It's a punch to the gut because I don't know a single federal worker who didn't want to dedicate their lives to public service. Who, you know, everybody I know who worked for the government, first of all, took a lower paycheck. They could have made so much more money in the private sector. Exactly. But they decided to serve their country and take an oath to be a steward of the taxpayer dollar and to make lives for Americans better. And I have never heard otherwise from, from a federal employee. Nobody was like, oh, yeah, I'm just here because of the paycheck. No, like, I can't think of a single person. So talk a little more broadly about the morale inside the Department of Justice that you saw. There were so many people being fired and leaving, whether it was through deferred resignation programs or getting early retirement or just in general the morale being so low that you just didn't want to work there anymore.

[C]

There was not a point where I didn't want to work there anymore. If the US Trustee program came to me at this very moment and said, hey, we need you to get back to work, I would charge at them with open arms to give them a big hug. Morale. Yes, you could definitely feel the impact when you have the president and the Cabinet telling you, as a dedicated federal employee, that your Work isn't appreciated and that you are an expendable garbage employee that's sucking up resources. How enthusiastic are you supposed to be to serve them? In particular, federal employees? Everybody that I know, they will serve their missions. They work to further the mission of their various component or department. But the people at the top also need to be encouraging. Everybody needs to hear, thank you. Everybody needs to hear that they're appreciated. There are also the statements of Rest Vaught, like we want to put them in trauma or another time he said, we want them not to go into work because they're the villains. Yeah, Federal employees are never the villains. Federal employees should want to go to work. No one federal, private, whomever deserves trauma when they go to work. But that may be one place where the plans from the current administration underestimated the resolve of federal employees, the resilience of civil servants. Because working at the DOJ and getting to work with people in other departments, federal employees are resilient. They're strong, they're patient. They've worked under tight constraints due to budget time or just a lack of windows in the office. This I don't know that Russ Vaught really knows what he's up against when he takes on the federal workforce and says, we want to get rid of all of you. We want to dismantle the government. And you have people dedicated to making the country a better place by serving the people of it.

[Allison Gill]

Right. And I also think aside from not, or I should say underestimating the blowback and the resilience of federal government workers, the cost, and not just the cost of human lives and families and all that, but the cost monetarily. I don't think people like Russ Vaught or Stephen Miller or Donald Trump understand that everybody who took an oath to serve the federal government took an oath to be a steward of the taxpayer dollar and that each and every federal employee saves the government money. And by slashing the federal government, you are slashing the people who watch over tax revenue.

[C]

Absolutely. Well, then you also have instances of certain parts of the government that are self funded, like the US Trustee program, like the national parks, and they continue to slash in those areas when those are actually revenue producing programs.

[Allison Gill]

Right. Exactly. Now, how long did you work for the Department of Justice?

[C]

I got to work in the Los Angeles office for about three years. Then I relocated to Austin and was in private practice for a number of years until 2021 when I joined the Austin office.

[Allison Gill]

So like seven years?

[C]

Yeah, just, I think it was a little bit more. But just about seven years with a plan for it to be 30.

[Allison Gill]

Right. I think that's another thing about federal workers. I think everyone planned to be there to retire. As a federal employee.

[C]

Sure. And I have come across a number of, since January, since the second Trump administration, I've known a number of people who have left either due to rif, the reduction in force. For anyone who's not familiar, people who took the buyout or people who were just set to retire. And I don't blame anyone for taking care of themselves if they're a federal employee that says, hey, I don't have even, you know, a two month window where I can go without a paycheck and I can't risk getting the email that I myself received a couple of days ago where I was just put out on the stoop. It makes sense that they would make choices to take that buyout or take other actions to preserve their mental health or their fiscal health.

[Allison Gill]

Talk a little bit more about some of the blowback negative attention at super high levels that you've been receiving and have you seen anything since you've been let go?

[C]

I don't think anyone outside certain offices in the government knows that I've been terminated. The only negative arguments or negative comments I've seen from people within the administration directed at me personally, it's been very few and far between. The majority of the blowback has come from right wing media is self proclaimed conspiracy theorists and individuals like that on social media that have, as I mentioned before, come up with just a slew of creative accusations and insults.

[Allison Gill]

Can you, are you able to tell us who sent the termination, termination email or is that something that needs to be kind of kept sort of close to the vest?

[C]

For now, I'm going to go no comment on that one because I don't know if that's appropriate at the moment.

[Allison Gill]

I understand, believe me, I understand. My whole story is done and out and it's all in a court filing for everybody to read. For me, they did the trick where, see now they can just fire people or they try to just fire people. Back then it wasn't as easy or they were told, they were advised legally that it probably was a bad idea. So they devised the plan. You know, I'm sure you saw like they moved the entire USDA office to, from D.C. to Kansas and forced everybody to quit. A lot of times what they're doing now is they're, is they're ending remote work and work from home, forcing people back into the office, which forces a lot of people to Quit because they some don't live within 50 miles of their closest office.

[C]

That's part of their trauma.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. And for me and Russ Vaught was there when I was let go, too. It was. They moved my job across the country knowing that I couldn't move. And so they have all sorts of creative ways to do this. Some are legal, some are not. But the trauma is still the same. And it's what they want to cause. It's the cruelty. That's the point. I think I agree.

[C]

I saw an article this morning on government executive of discussing this was Eric Katz's article discussing the administration telling judges a Trump admin tells judge it can fire at least some career feds at any time for any reason. That goes directly against the civil service protections that I was promised as a federal employee, as did the email that I received. I didn't get any notice. I didn't get a phone call. There was no process by which I could rebut allegations. I just wasn't told this was about to happen. And that's not an uncommon story. Now, which makes it even more upsetting, is that there are other former DOJ employees, there are other former federal employees that have out of the blue, been kicked to the curb.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. And without a reason. Right. Because I'm going to go out on a limb and assume that you've gotten all great performance evaluations over the years.

[C]

I think you would be hard pressed to find anyone who wasn't happy with my work.

[Allison Gill]

All right. Well, Carolyn, is there anything else that you want everybody to know about you, your work and what's going on with the just absolute unconscionable brain drain at the Department of Justice and other agencies?

[C]

I think one thing that I want people to really grasp and know whether they are a federal employee or whether they know one, is that like we discussed before, these are strong people, they are resilient and they are serving the United States. So they need to hear. Thank you, too.

[Allison Gill]

You.

[C]

It's not just veterans and firemen that need to hear that. If you are one of the listeners who's a federal employee, you have my respect and hold the line.

[Allison Gill]

Carolyn, you also have my thanks and my respect for the work that you did at the Department of Justice. And I'm so very sorry that that was cut short because of the cruelty of this regime. And honestly, to target people for activism, whether it's your own or someone close to you, I think is a violation of First Amendment rights. And it goes against everything that we should stand for in the United States.

[C]

Well, thank you and thank you for your podcast. This is helping to keep everyone informed, sharing information, getting that info out there. And as a fan and a former Fed, it's appreciated. Thank you.

[Allison Gill]

All right, well, thanks for sharing your story. I hope you keep telling it as much as you can, and we will have you back on to see how you're doing and the progress that you're making and what avenue you decide to go down because we're all rooting for you. So thank you very much. Tell Joshua we said hello and I hope that we get to speak to you again soon. Soon.

[C]

I will. Thank you for having me.

[Allison Gill]

All right, everybody, stick around. We'll be right back with Kel McClanahan from National Security Counselors to discuss my lawsuit to get all the Epstein transcripts. Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. Hey everybody. You know what comes with fluffy cats? You know what comes with four fluffy cats? Big fluffy problems. I got my cats because they needed love. They needed rescued. Not because I wanted a house full of allergens. But here we are. And thankfully, Packagen entered my life just in time. This podcast is sponsored by packagen. Owning a cat doesn't have to mean endless itching and sneezing and watery eyes. Yet almost 20% of people suffer from cat allergies, and three out of four people aren't happy with their current allergy solutions. Packagen's Cat Allergen Neutralizing Spray targets the allergens around your home that trigger your cat allergies and breaks them down so that you and your family can live and breathe in peace. For 15% off your order and a special gift, head to packagen.com dailybeans if you've ever owned a cat while managing allergies, you know the struggle. I used to think vacuuming every other day and keeping the windows open was enough until I learned the real source of allergens was my cat's spit. Yep, cats groom constantly and their saliva is packed with feld1 proteins. That's the main trigger for cat allergies. That's why Packagen's Cat Allergen Neutralizing Spray was a total game changer. Their science? Forward whisker block protein binds to allergens and neutralizes them before they come airborne. The result? No harsh chemicals, no sketchy ingredients, just quick relief. The first time I used it, I noticed the difference. Within days, my itchy eyes were gone. Sneezing history. I was finally cuddling my cats without paying the price. Later what really sold me was how smart the approach is. Packaging doesn't just treat allergy symptoms, it tackles the allergens directly. It's safe for people and pets, it's easy to use and it's backed by a 30 day money back guaranteed. That's the win. Your pets aren't just pets, they are family. So get the relief you need with packaging. Head to packaging.com dailybeans and use promo code dailybeans for 15 off your order plus an exclusive gift for listeners at checkout. That's Packagen P-A-C-A-G-E-N.com dailybeans for 15 off plus an exclusive gift. Again, make sure you use my promo code daily beans one more time. That's packaging.com dailybeans promo code daily beginning be. Hey, everybody, welcome back. About to get into some good trouble because as we know, Trump told Pam Bondi, well, asked Pam Bondi and then put it on Truth Social that he had asked Pam Bondi to release pertinent Epstein files. So I'm going to sue to hold him to that. And joining me is the lawyer from the law firm National Security Counselors who's going to help me do that. Please welcome Kel McClanahan. Hi, Kel. How are you? How are you?

[E]

I'm doing all right. How are you doing?

[Allison Gill]

I'm, I'm well, you know, I'm all right. There's a lot going on. The old, the old how are you? Question is loaded these days, but I'm doing well. How are you?

[E]

I am overworked and underpaid, but that is pretty much standard for the course here.

[Allison Gill]

Well, you are doing a lot of really important work in the courts with regard to the Trump administration. And, you know, recently, I think it was last Thursday, Thursday evening on Good Trouble Day, John Lewis, may he rest in peace. Good Trouble Day. We were texting back and forth about trying to figure out had Donald Trump just sort of waived any privilege or came out in his truth social rant about, you know, finally saying, like, all right, fine, if you're not going to stop talking about the Epstein files. I've asked Attorney General Pam Bondi to release pertinent grand jury transcripts or something like that in the Epstein files. Caving to the massive amounts of pressure. I mean, every single major news corporate organization and independent outlet has been talking about nothing but the Epstein files for the last week or two. And, you know, kind of Streisand effect here with, with what Donald Trump is doing. And we were like, well, can I hold him to this. So talk about the action that, that you took on my behalf on Thursday.

[E]

Well, you talk about the publicity, and that's actually one of the fun things about this whole project is that this, the stupid little fake tweet that he did, led with based on the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein. So he just comes out and says, everybody's talking about it. It's really important. Everybody's talking about it. So let's do this thing. And that's kind of legally significant as we'll get into later. But there were some troubling words in this thing, such as any and all pertinent grand jury testimony and subject to court approval. And so what we did was we went and filed a Freedom of Information act, or FOIA request with Pam Bondi's office that left out the word pertinent and said, okay, fine, here is something that your boss, the President of the United States, just put out on Truth Social, authorizing Pam Bondi to release all this information. So. So let's get all this information. We formally request all of the grand jury testimony from the Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell trials. And we did this. We asked for extradited processing, which is to make them move faster and not sort of sit it in the bottom of a giant pile of paper. Our justification for why they needed to do it was, you're boss, Jeff talked about the ridiculous amount of publicity. Here's a quote to that lovely post. And we asked for a fee waiver, which is when there is a tremendous amount of publicity and a need to inform the public. And he said this scam perpetuated by the Democrats should end right now. So he's saying that it's urgent and it needs to end right now. So we need to inform the public about this. So give us the records. And we did this on Thursday night. And on Friday, Bondi went and started asking New York judges to. For permission to release the testimony.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. And by asking for all of the transcripts as opposed to what's pertinent. Right. In our request, that kind of forces Trump and Bondi to do a couple of things, or at least admit some things, which is kind of the point of this exercise. Can you talk about that?

[Dana Goldberg]

That.

[E]

Well, sure. So, first of all, it's important to know that even if you set aside grand jury testimony as being something that's protected, which it is, you generally don't see grand jury materials. There's also other governmental privileges. We always hear about attorney client privilege and deliberative Process, privilege and these things that are only wavable by the government. And so when he sent this thing out, my position is he waived every possible privilege they could have so that they can't say, well, the judge authorized us to release this, so it's not subject to grand jury testimony, but we're still going to withhold, hold it because it might expose one of our attorneys thought processes or it'll expose law enforcement techniques or something like that. So that's all been waived in my opinion. Most importantly, with the pertinent question is they now have to release to us with or without court approval, any information that if non exempt from all of the grand jury testimony and not just a pertinent part, whatever that means. And so that means that if they go and they ask the judge for permission to release this, which they have to do, that's how grand jury testimony works. And the judge says, okay, I'm going to authorize you to release the information that you want to release. And they then withhold something and say, this is grand jury testimony, we're not releasing that. Then they have to justify to whatever judge we sue with for this FOIA request and we're going to have to sue. You know, why the rule for grand jury testimony still applies, why they did not ask the judge for permission to release that, why they did not decide it's pertinent to whatever, and it'll give us all a look behind the curtain to see what they're actually trying to do, what they're trying to hide and who they're trying to protect.

[Allison Gill]

Okay, so what we're doing here is looking to take away any excuses they might have, right? So that we're setting traps so that if they don't release something, it's on them, not on a judge. Because the way that I looked at this thing was with the pertinent and the grand jury thing, I was like, first of all, it's a big long shot. Second of all, they'll want to redact everything for privacy information. Third of all, this is, by the way, a tiny little sliver of, you know, documents in this case. Grand jury testimony is not a massive part of a sprawling federal investigation like the 1 and 2 Ghislaine Maxwell or the 1 and 2 Jeffrey Epstein. But I was like, this is what, what the Trump administration does. They ask for stuff they know they can't get. And when they don't get it, they blame the deep state, the court, the, you know, the Marxist judges, the. And Stephen Miller will say, this judge is doing an insurrection on us. I mean, it. This is. We've seen it over and over and over again. And so by doing this, by requesting all of it and them having to withhold it from us in a foyer request, then the burden is on them, them to make their own excuses not to put it on the courts. Right, right.

[E]

And let's say that this tweet didn't exist and someone were to go after this testimony. I, I have litigated trying to get grand jury records from a FOIA request before, and it is very hard because in a normal situation, they will argue, well, this is exempt, and you cannot make us through foia, go ask a judge for permission to release something. And so if they can say this is grand jury testimony and the judge, we would have to ask the judge for permission to release it. You can't make us do that. Neener, neener. But Donald Trump sort of took that piece out because he told him to go ask the judge. So now we get to sort of piggyback on that and say, okay, now that you've done that, now that you've asked the judge, and to their credit, with some kind of weasley parts that we can discuss in a bit, the motion to for permission to release the information was not half bad. You know, I think that the glaring part of this was not a motion that you file where you deliberately screw it up so that you'll lose. I could see this motion being granted, and I could see it being granted, unfortunately, for a few things that they did do do that hurt us and hurt sort of the public, which is say, trust us, your honor, we're going to withhold privacy information of victims and others. And that's why you should authorize us to, you know, release the grand jury testimony, because we'll still protect the really important stuff. Just. Just trust us. Well, by saying that, they basically telegraphed that even if the judge says release everything, they're still going to withhold a bunch of stuff.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

But then that's on. That brings me to our forthcoming motion, potential motion to intervene in what Todd Blanch filed in, in the Southern District of New York. Again. And I want to point this out. Todd Blanche signed this himself. This wasn't an ausa, by the way. So that's just an interesting point, but talk a little bit about a potential motion to intervene. We filed a FOIA that's separate. Right. And they have on an expedited review basis. Because of the urgency that Donald Trump said there is said exists, we're looking at, you Know, handful of days, couple weeks tops before we could file a lawsuit to, to force the issue through a FOIA request. But then motion to intervene in what? Todd Blanche filed a very narrow one in order to ask the judge for specific things. Talk about that.

[E]

So remember how I just said a few minutes ago that we can't force them to go ask a judge for something? In a normal case, if you wanted to get a sealed record, whether it be grand jury seal or just a normal sealed filing through foia, you had to basically hit both the court and the agency at the same time, where you file a FOIA request with the agency and you file a motion to intervene in the case for the sole purpose of unsealing something with the court. So that basically you get the court to give the DOJ permission to release the thing to you, to remove that arrow from their quiver, and then you say, now give it to me. And they do that. So what we're having, that's the normal process when you, when you do these things here, we're still having to do that, but we're having to do it in a much narrower fashion because we're actually joining in some ways their argument.

[Allison Gill]

They're saying, release things.

[E]

Give, give us authority to release things. And we're saying, yeah, give them authority to release things. We're on their side on this. What we're doing in addition to them, which is why you would need a motion to intervene, is saying, but don't weigh in on the privacy aspect, because when they say that they're going to withhold all the victim's information and all unspecified other people's information, they're asking you to, in your opinion, bless them, withholding privacy information so that they can turn around and do that if asked by somebody in a FOIA request. And so we're going to say, you know, your honor, we're just asking you leave that to the next judge, you know, weigh in or whether or not you can invoke their rules or procedure and the grand jury testimony to withhold it. And don't weigh in on privacy stuff, because while we don't want the victim's information, nobody in their right minds wants the victim information. We think the inform, we think whether or not they have to release information about other people, such as co conspirators or clients or what have you is a question for whatever judge have decided FOIA case. So don't try to put your thumb on the scale there.

[Allison Gill]

Okay, interesting. Well, I'm looking forward to that. Now, I wanted to go Back to something you said earlier that we could talk about later. You're talking about the relevance of the, you know, everybody is talking about this. Did we cover that with the urgency and the exped. Expedited request.

[E]

So expedited processing is this special thing in FOIA that says you move to the front of the key, you and the information gets released to the extent it's releasable, non exempt as soon as practicable is the term in the statute. And when you get expedited processing, you're not 10,000 in line, you're 50th in line, there's a special queue for you. And so we are citing to, normally you have to go and provide, oh, here's evidence of all the widespread interest. Here's evidence of the urgent need to inform people. We don't, we, we were able to skip past all that.

[Allison Gill]

Right. You normally have to convince a judge to grant expedited stuff, but in this case, Trump said it was urgent.

[E]

Yeah. And so we're our entire, like, when I am making an argument for expedited processing that I'm going to have to litigate, I give like three pages of why an hvx. In this particular case, the extra justification was, as President Trump has demonstrated in the quoted social media post, there is an extreme urgency to release these records to bring this matter to an end right now. Furthermore, President Trump acknowledges the ridiculous amount of publicity given to Jeffrey Epstein, conclusively demonstrating the urgency of the request. He did all my work for me.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, he did the work. He did the work. He, first of all, he waved the executive and attorney client and deliberative process work, product, privilege, all these privileges by asking Bondi publicly to release these things or to ask a judge asking Bondi to ask a judge to release these things. And he made your urgency argument and relevance argument for you in that same.

[E]

Case and the fee waiver argument for.

[Allison Gill]

That matter, and the fee waiver argument as well, which is, is fantastic. But so I'm gonna, as you know, obviously, as soon as these things come out, I'll be posting them. Everybody you can follow, national security counselors on Blue sky and social media, as well as Kel McClanahan also, you can follow me at melushiroat and you know, I'll be keeping everybody up to date on, on this particular, this practice that we are, that we're entering into here. And again, just a reminder that, and if, and what we get is, again, it's the tip of the iceberg, but that's not really the point. The point is to hold Trump and Bondi to their word and force them to make excuses not to release things. And so I look forward to seeing how this plays out. And I appreciate you, Kel, and National Security Councilors for helping out. And I want to ask everybody to. These things cost money. These filings cost money. And we could use your help. National Security Councils could use your help. And you can help them out by going to nationalsecuritylaw.org donate and all that money goes right to these incredible lawyers doing all this work, including Cal. So, Kel, thanks again. Is there any final thing you want to let everybody know about this before, before I let you go?

[E]

Well, two things. On the donations, we are a legitimate tax account, 501. So everything is tax deductible if you give us money. And on the merits of this case, just to be completely fair, sort of as a lawyer, I have to say these things. I'm sure there are some parts of this testimony that they will be able to argue should not get out. That will convince a judge. That probably should convince a judge. So we are not asking that everything get out because there's a lot in this whole awful case that should never see the light of day. We're just saying that if they want to make that argument, they have to justify it to a judge. If the judge says it's okay and the judge agrees with it, then, you know, at least we got somebody outside of Pam Bondi to look at.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And that's what we're hopefully forcing them to do. Thank you, my friend. Again, if you want to help us out, it's nationalsecuritylaw.org donate and we will keep you posted. Thank you so much for your time today, Cal.

[E]

Of course. Thank you for having me.

[Allison Gill]

All right, everybody, stick around. We'll be right back with the good news after these messages. We'll be right back. All right, everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news? Everyone. Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. And if you have any good news, good trouble suggestions, if you have pronunciation corrections for us because I'm terrible at pronouncing things.

[Dana Goldberg]

You are. Come on.

[Allison Gill]

I. I am. Hey, I. I miss a lot of stuff. So if you have any corrections for anything, send that to us. If you have a shout out you want to send to yourself, we love self shout outs. A loved one. If you want to tell us what your dissertation or thesis title was, we want to hear about that. Any small bit of good news, something great that happened to you this Weekend, we want to hear about it. If you have a shout out for a government program, maybe that has helped you or a loved one, whether it's a federal program or maybe it's municipal or state, we want to hear about that too. And you can send it all to us dailybeanspod.com click on contact and to get your submission right on the air, you just got to pay your podbet tariff, which means attach photo of your pet. And if you don't have a pet, send an adoptable pet in your area. We'll see if we can find him a home. If you don't have that, really just grab any animal photo off the Internet that works for your POD pet tariff that satisfies the debt. So you can send that to us. Or a picture of your happy place or something you're making or creating. Maybe a picture of you and your family and friends flipping the bird to Trump and Musk Properties. Or family photos, baby photos. Awkward family photos are super fun. You can send those to us. Whatever it is, you can pay your POD pet tariff pretty easily here at the Daily Beans by sending it all to dailybeanspod.com and click on contact. All right, first up is our good trouble. I teased this at the end of the A block. This is from Celeste, pronoun she and her. This is a link to comment on the rule requiring states to share SNAP info with the feds. Quote the primary purpose of this system validate the accuracy of eligibility determinations and strengthen SNAP and the government program integrity. Sure, that's what it's for. Uh huh. Now comments close on 23 July, so we're almost out of comment time. So Celeste says release the beans. Oh yeah, thanks. And these are pics of Nelly smelly belly, the best tortie with the mostest fur and of an elephant Lovey. I crocheted for a baby on the way. I'm working on a matching rattle too. Celeste. Thank you. We will have the show notes so you can put your public comment in on handing over all the SNAP information to the feds. And look at this baby kitty.

[Dana Goldberg]

Can we talk about the elephant Levy?

[Allison Gill]

Oh, look at this.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

Oh my gosh, that's beautiful.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yep.

[Allison Gill]

I can't wait to see the matching rattles. Town peeps. Thank you.

[Dana Goldberg]

All right. This is from Nick. Pronouns he and him. This is in response to the Friday, July 18 episode. An acrostic is a poem in which the first letter of every line form a word or a phrase. Got it. An acrostic is a poem which is the first letter of every line form a word or a phrase. A common use of an acrostic is to praise or ridicule a person without naming them directly. Good to know. Thank you, Nick.

[Allison Gill]

Thanks. All right.

[Dana Goldberg]

This is from Brian. Pronouns he and him. Hello, Queens of the beans and all of the beans. Behind the scenes, this is a shout out to a loved one, My lovely wife, Lee. She has been my angel, helping me recover from a stroke since in 2016 and a broken right and left ankle since then. She also changed careers to move us from Torrance, California to Washington state in 2017 after my stroke. She's one of the strongest people I know, even though she'd never admit it. About a year ago, while I was bedridden after my second broken ankle, she recommended that I listen to the daily beans. Your pod became a favorite part of my mornings as I would gleefully sing along with they Might Be Giants to start the day. I've happily been a supporter ever since. Still singing. You're a light in the darkness. Now back to Lee. After teaching German remotely when we lived in California, she now works as an academic advisor for the School of the Environment at Washington State University in Pullman, Washington. Back in April, she received an award for excellence in undergraduate advising, and two weeks ago she got promotion to academic advisor too. She more than deserves it, and I am so proud of her. For my Podpet tariff, I submit then and now pictures of our flame point Siamese twin boys, Lavon, named after Lavon Helm from the band, and Oscar. The baby Picture is from 2014, the year we adopted them from Carson Cats Rescue in Torrance, California. Lavon is next to the door door in the baby picture and Oscar has his tongue out in the recent one. Also included is a picture of mother and Fonz wandering around next door. Thanks for all that you do with humor and swearing. It takes a village and we are with you all the way. Love you both.

[Allison Gill]

Aw, that's so sweet. Thank you so much. Do okay. The flame points are adorable.

[Dana Goldberg]

The deers.

[Allison Gill]

Oh my gosh, look at the fawns.

[Dana Goldberg]

Allison. It's a doe. A deer.

[Allison Gill]

A female.

[Dana Goldberg]

Female deer. And it's fawn.

[Allison Gill]

Just absolutely fantastic. She's like, what?

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

Her babies are all, hey. And she's all, what are you doing? Love it. All right, next up from Tanya. Hi. Love the podcast, especially the enhancements. With four letter words, it makes my morning commute fun and informative. I wanted to share some good news. Boone County, Indiana, Democrats are hard at work helping Hoosiers Left behind by the Republican supermajority in our state. Here's a picture of our food drive from Sat. Republicans cut funding for kids summer lunch programs and we're doing what we can to fill the gap. Also here is the pod tax photo of Roxy, the most spoiled dog on the planet. Save democracy, do good things. That's incredible. Boone County, Indiana, Democrats, thank you so much. And thank you, Tanya, for all the work that you're doing to feed these kids.

[Dana Goldberg]

Absolutely.

[Allison Gill]

I can't believe anybody would be like like them kids. Don't give them right.

[Dana Goldberg]

I know. They're gross. They're gross. This is all these people that have their kids in charter schools and private schools and they don't give a shit about because they have no empathy.

[Allison Gill]

Nope.

[Dana Goldberg]

Okay. This is Rachel.

[Allison Gill]

She is adorable, by the way.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes, indeed. Rachel. S and pronouns are she and her says. Our local Indivisible and 5051 chapters had a small Good Trouble protest in Montgomery, Alabama on the 17th and the local paper took some lovely photos. I'm proud to see my little table where we encourage folks to have fun making protest to resist through art. You can see a bunch of my art in the photo, including a portrait of John Lewis that I painted special for a free showing of John Lewis Good Trouble at the historic Capri theater we had the previous Saturday. We auctioned it off with a silent bid for a donation directly to SPLC and gave away books and art prints as door prizes. The highlight of the event was a panel discussing the civil rights experts who knew him personally. Talk about the shoulders of giants. It felt electric in there. Connected. We're gonna to show notes in the show. Notes to this freedom fighters host that Montgomery rallies. You can see the article. Wow, Rachel, your art is incredible.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. Look at you. That's your table. And they put it in the newspaper.

[Dana Goldberg]

This is so good. I had the pleasure of meeting that titan John Lewis twice. And just being in his presence changes you. It just makes you want to be a better human being. He was absolutely wonderful.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. There are people that are like that that just fill up the room and fill up your soul. Fantastic. Rachel, Congratulations. All right. From Deb pronoun. She and her hey beans Queens finally figured out how to connect with my local indivisible group. I live here in dark red eastern Washington state and have been attending every protest I can and I've made it to some big ones. Hands off. No kings. Good Trouble. I've been so heartened by the Turnout out estimated 1500 and 2300. That's recollection. Not hard data, but somewhere around there for. For the first two. I don't have numbers yet for yesterday, but people are showing up. And the feedback from the people passing by based on honks and thumbs up, revved engines and middle fingers was overwhelmingly positive. I only found you this spring, but you have quickly become one of my must listen everyday podcasts. Humor in the darkness. That's my sweet spot. Thank you for providing me with it. D For my podbet tariff, I'm including a couple pics of me at the protests and then my sweet girl Indy. Guess if you like her breed. Thanks again for all you do. She looks like a pity mix.

[Dana Goldberg]

Maybe with a healer. Look at the spots on the chest.

[Allison Gill]

Look at the spots. Oh my God, her belly. I want to rub it. There you go.

[Dana Goldberg]

Look.

[Allison Gill]

Healer pit.

[Dana Goldberg]

You know what? That was a tag team.

[Allison Gill]

After we did it, we got one right. High five.

[Dana Goldberg]

Virtual. That's right. We're out, people. Have a good one.

[Allison Gill]

That's it. We're never. That's. We have peaked, everyone.

[Dana Goldberg]

We have peaked.

[Allison Gill]

We've peaked. We now have three dogs out of hundreds and hundreds that we've gotten. Correct.

[Dana Goldberg]

Thousands. That is. That is not a good batting average, but we'll take it. We'll take it. This one's from Mel Pronoun. She and her. Hey, AG and dg. I discovered your podcast about a month ago and I listen daily. I love it.

[Allison Gill]

Welcome.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yesterday I took my 10 year old to a small Good Trouble protest in a nearly a nearby, nearby rural community. While the not overly excited mom was dragging them along at first, my kid loved having so many of the protesters praise them for being out there and holding signs. Most protesters were grandparents and they all fawned over my kid. It was also a great opportunity to educate them about John Lewis, our country being built on protests and the importance of standing up when you see something wrong happening. My POD pet tariff is a pick of my kids holding one of their signs trying to raise the next generation upright. And the sign says, my mom let me get into some good trouble.

[Allison Gill]

This is so great. What a great sign, Mel. And way to just lay it out there. Back to the basics, right?

[Dana Goldberg]

Damn right.

[Allison Gill]

Our country's built on protests and the importance of standing up when you see something wrong happening.

[Dana Goldberg]

Love it.

[Allison Gill]

The end.

[Dana Goldberg]

The end.

[Allison Gill]

I think we can retire now. I mean, that's. That's. That's just. We got the dog, right?

[Dana Goldberg]

Thanks for joining us, everyone. It's been a good run. We're kidding. Don't ever leave us don't ever leave.

[Allison Gill]

We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Thank you, everybody, for sending in your good news. Please send us all your good news. Any little tiny thing you can think of. My good cool thing that happened this week, I got to speak at the Arizona State University summer series for the School of Social Work. And we talked about community and communication, and that just really was amazing. And another cool thing that happened, got to wander around the campus of NAU where I was a student 32 years ago, and it is the same. I felt 19 years old.

[Dana Goldberg]

That's awesome.

[Allison Gill]

And then caught myself my reflection in the mirror and went, who is that?

[Dana Goldberg]

You're like, no, I'm not. I remember when I was in at the university. No, it was high school. We had a band competition and we went to Nautical and the drum line. I was section leader of the drum line. I played Sinner Snare the entire during my high school years. And we played. NAU was one of the first times we had a band competition in a dome. So if you can imagine the drumline noise in a dome. But I don't know what happened. I literally played a hole through the top of my drum skin. We were rocking it. It was awesome.

[Allison Gill]

Walk up stadium, right? Big, giant fucking statue of a lumberjack right outside.

[Dana Goldberg]

That's right.

[Allison Gill]

And you probably stayed at Riley hall or McConnell, one of those two while you were there. I went to band camp at NAU when I was in high school as well.

[Dana Goldberg]

That's funny.

[Allison Gill]

But for choir, oddly, you know, choir and band. Yeah, yeah, same, same. Oh, there was rivalry, though.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. You guys were actually having sex.

[Allison Gill]

And the choir nerds.

[Dana Goldberg]

What's that?

[Allison Gill]

The band geeks. The choir nerds.

[Dana Goldberg]

That's right.

[Allison Gill]

It was like the west side Story.

[Dana Goldberg]

Some of the most rowdy trips, though. You think everyone's all quiet. Band geeks and choir nerds. There's a lot of trouble happening on those buses.

[Allison Gill]

Oh, yes. One time at band camp. All right, tell you what, everybody. We will be back in your ears tomorrow. We're not going anywhere just because we guessed the dog right. So again, send us all your good news dailybeanspot.com click on contact. And until tomorrow, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take of care care of the planet, take care of your mental health, and take care of your family. I've been AG, I've been DG, the NEM's, the beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill, with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics, politics and justice. For more information Please visit msw media.com msw media.