Dave Aronberg (27:18)

AG Great to be back with you. Happy New Year.

Alison Gill (27:21)

Happy New Year. It's always good to see you, my friend. The last time we saw each other, we had a nice brunch at DZ Aikens in San Diego. It was delicious. So thanks for joining me there.

Dave Aronberg (27:31)

It was amazing. I recommend that place to everyone. It was really good. And they know you and your picture is supposed to be on the wall, but for some reason they took it down for that day. I was disappointed.

Alison Gill (27:42)

I don't know why they took down my 8 by 10. Maybe they found out how it got up in the first place. Back probably about seven years ago, I did a flash mob in their deli and had all my friends come up to me like I was a strange. Like they were strangers but asking for my autograph. And then the owner was like, oh, who are you? Are you someone famous? I'm like, why, yes, I'm Al Gill. And they put my photo up. And then, you know, a few short years later, I was actually touring nationally and doing pretty well, but for some reason, they decided to take my photo down. That's okay. I felt kind of like an imposter anyway. But it was a fun. It was a fun flash mob. So, anyway, always delicious food at DZ Akins. And now, now the cat's out of the bag about how I got my photo. But anyway, I wanted to talk to you today. Some actual serious fraud perpetrated against people. Matt Gaetz and his fraud against the rules of the House and the House Ethics Committee and their gift rules, not to mention what they found out about his alleged sex trafficking of a minor and his alleged statutory rape. They found that he violated no federal laws, except for perhaps obstruction of Congress, which I don't think they reported to the Department of Justice for investigation. And I don't think the DOJ knew about it until this report came out about all of his obstruction. Failure to respond to subpoenas during the committee's investigation, and that would have been under Title 18, U.S. code, Section 1505, obstruction of Congress. But they did find that he violated Florida laws, particularly the statutory rape law. Federally speaking, age of consent is 16. And if you didn't know or you can't prove that the person knew the age of the victim, they don't really prosecute. But in Florida, it doesn't matter whether or not you knew the age. And if you're over the age of 24 and you have sex with someone who is 16 or 17, it's considered statutory rape. Even if the victim tells you they're over the age of 18 or over the age of consent, which is 18 there, as far as statutory rape goes. So, of course, all of this leads to the question, why didn't anyone in Florida prosecute this rape that occurred in July of 2017? And that's why I wanted to bring you on today.

Dave Aronberg (29:58)

Well, AG is a three year statute of limitations. So what happens is a crime of sex with an underage person. In Florida, you said it correctly, if you're 16 or 17, and the person having sex with that individual is 24 or older, then that is a crime. It's a felony, a serious felony, a second degree felony punishable of up to 15 years in prison. But the statute of limitations is three years from the victim's turning 18. So now the victim is 24 or around 24. I don't know her exact age. So that ship is sailed. Now as to why. So think of like this for, for prosecutors, state level, to get a case, law enforcement first has to investigate and then turn it over. From the beginning, this case was being handled by the feds. And when the feds are handling a case, the state stands down. And the feds kept this and they were looking at it for the more serious crime of human trafficking. Child sex trafficking is punishable by up to life in prison. So that's the big whammy here. And when the feds finally decided to decline, it was, I believe, already too late by that point. It was, it was. There it is. So that's, that's a big reason. Now the state could conceivably move ahead with a charge of child sex trafficking under state law. Under state law. Actually state law is tougher than federal law in that that is a strict liability offense at the federal law. There's a slight exception if you did not have time to properly observe the victim. That really wouldn't apply in this case because it wasn't like a one shot deal. But under state law there is no exception. So yeah, you go down for it. But here's the issue. When the feds investigate and they decide not to indict, then state prosecutors are very unlikely then to say, okay, then we'll do it too. Because if it's not enough evidence for the feds, if you don't think you can get a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt, the state's not going to do it. And the state still needs a referral by a law enforcement agency. There were members of the press went to the attorney General to say, hey, are you going to be involved in this? The Attorney General of Florida, Ashley Moody in her office either declined to comment or said no. This is a status, this is a local district attorney issue. So everyone is looking at each other. But I do not expect any criminal charges to be charged against Matt Gates. Now a different question is that why didn't the feds move ahead when there was evidence, according to the House report, that there were multiple witnesses to the sex with the then 17 year old? Because that would be child sex trafficking. If it was a commercial sex act if money changed hands. But in that same House report, it says that unlike all the other alleged victims, this then 17 year old got paid in cash. Not Venmo, much harder to trace. So then not only do you need proof that sex occurred, but you also need proof that there was money changing hands. And because it was cash, I think the feds were like, you know what, we're not going to go down this road against a prominent member of Congress in the MAGA world. And this is where I do think that Matt Gaetz's position helped him because Merrick Garland, you know, one day with Merrick Garland. I know you like Merrick Garland and he seems like a decent guy, but he is, he's a former judge who does not want to appear political. So if you want to take down a politician in Merrick Garland's Department of Justice, you've got to really have the goods. Can't be in a wiggle room. And they thought there was too much wiggle room here.

Alison Gill (33:45)

Yeah. Or stick with me here for a second. There was a very pretty famous case up in the Southern District of New York being investigated by Trump's DOJ into Stormy Daniels hush money payment. And Trump's DOJ told the local prosecutor at the time, Manhattan DA Vance, who then later was, you know, with the office, was occupied by Alvin Bragg, stand down. We're doing a federal investigation just like you said, happened down here in Florida. And they did. And the Southern District of New York did nothing and tried to hold out until the statute of limitations for the state expired. They failed because of COVID and because the governor there, you know, told the criminal statute of limitations. And so Alvin Bragg was able to bring that charge even though their fall guy, Michael Cohen, who the Trump administration did their damnedest to make an unreliable witness by indicting him and calling him a liar. Bragg decided to go ahead with that case, whereas Florida did not. But the same thing seems to have happened here, the feds under Trump, because this whole Greenberg thing started under Donald Trump's Department of Justice. And they actually told the federal, local prosecutors, sheriff's office and DA stand down. And they did in Orlando. And then they sat on the case until the until to try to expire the statute of limitations. But you know, the committee found as far as sex trafficking a minor goes, that they didn't actually have the evidence to do that. And with regards to the human trafficking or a prostitution, I guess a federal charge, what's the statute of limitations on that? And had it expired by the time Merrick, before Merrick Garland even got there. But what my question that remains unanswered about Merrick Garland here that I would like answered is the obstruction of Congress piece. Did he know, did he know that Matt Gaetz was obstructing Congress and violating federal law? Because that there is a pretty open and shut case given all of the obstruction outline in the House ethics report. So did he know? Was he aware? Did the committee tell him? Did the Republicans in the committee vote against telling the Department of Justice about this obstruction of Congress until just now when of course nothing can be done? Or did they know and not and choose not to investigate? That's my question. Because all that obstruction took place in 2023 and 2024. Right. Well within Merrick Garland's, you know, having been there. And also it's important to remember that Trump's U.S. attorney in the Middle District of Florida was there until 2022 and the interim guy was also there. In fact, it was the week that Biden's U.S. attorney took over the Middle District of Florida. It was that same week that the feds declined to press charges against Matt Gaetz for any federal crimes, which again the committee said that they couldn't get enough evidence to prove happened.

Dave Aronberg (36:50)

Well, these are all good points, all good questions. Just take a step back. It was the investigation of Matt Gates was open under Bill Barr and Trump administration. So when Gates says it's all political, this is Biden. No, no, no, this was, this was Bill Barr and Donald Trump. But the investigation started in the Middle District of Florida and the person who was in charge of the investigation was a guy named Roger Handberg, someone I know, very ethical, top notch prosecutor.

Alison Gill (37:16)

Right. He's been there since 2002.

Dave Aronberg (37:18)

Right.

Alison Gill (37:18)

He was the acting deputy because up until the very end of 2021. He was only interim until the end of 2022 when he actually took over. And Biden said you can be the new U.S. attorney there.

Dave Aronberg (37:31)

Right. So he was still the, the main prosecutor in this case, even under Bill Barr's doj. And then under Biden, he became the top dog, the U.S. attorney there. So he was, it wasn't like the Trump people were investigating and then slow walking it. And then Biden's people came in. They didn't have enough time. It was the same person who did it. And I do believe that Roger Hamburg in good faith and his team decided that they didn't have enough to go. And it wasn't just his decision, by the way. This went up to Main justice as you know, they brought in folks from D.C. because it was Matt Gates. And so there were a lot of people looking at it. And I think they were erring on the side of not pursuing an indictment. They, they wanted to be absolutely sure. Now, the one area where I think they had the goods was on obstruction, like you said. Now, aside from congressional obstruction, this is talking about obstruction of justice through witness.

Alison Gill (38:26)

Witness tampering of the federal case. Right. The DOJ mentions in the Matt Gaetz report that the DOJ had a recording of Matt Gaetz on a phone call to one of the main witnesses.

Dave Aronberg (38:35)

That's right. So I do, I think they had. And they could have prosecuted him on witness tampering. And, you know, the key witness for the DOJ was Matt Gaetz's ex girlfriend. Matt Gaetz's ex girlfriend worked for the federal government and the state government. She had no axe to grind with Matt Gaetz. They left on good terms. She knew about this all. She even participated in some of this stuff.

Alison Gill (38:55)

So she did plead the Fifth quite a bit, though.

Dave Aronberg (38:57)

Well, you know, she was given immunity then before a grand jury. And so the Fed, now we're going to get them. But apparently, and you know you and I are not privy to grand jury testimony, obviously, but apparently she did not give up the goods on him on anything but witness tampering. It seems like just from reading the tea leaves, that was the only thing. But then it was up to the DOJ to say, do we go after Matt Gaetz on witness tampering when we're not going to prosecute him for the underlying crime of child sex trafficking? And they said, you know, unless we have an underlying crime, we're not going to go after Matt Gaetz, Matt Gates, just for the witness tampering. Now, if you're wondering about prostitution, the man act does say you cannot pay for sex. You can't transport someone over state or federal lines for purposes of prostitution. But because we're not dealing with quid pro quo prostitution here, but rather the gray area of sugar daddy relationships, the Fed's like, we want no part of that, or else perhaps they'd have to prosecute half of Palm Beach. Right?

Alison Gill (39:55)

Well, not only that, but there has to be coercion or, or they have to, you know, it has to be coerc, etc, Right?

Dave Aronberg (40:02)

Well, actually, ag, you only need force, fraud or coercion when it comes to sex trafficking. In the separate statute of the man act, you just need quid pro quo prostitution. I'm giving you this money exchange for sex. Now, if you ask the girls, they were. They were deposed and they said, we're not prostitutes. There was no quid pro quo. We were there. We were there under, you know, whatever. And. And they were. They did not want to be seen as prostitutes. And these were sugar daddy relationships in that gray area. And that's why you don't see anyone getting prosecuted for having a relationship through seeking arrangements or sugar daddy websites. That is the reason I think he was not prosecuted, because the only thing I think they really had him dead to rights on was the witness tampering, but they didn't have the underlying crime. And I think that's why DOJ said, we're going to drop it. And by the time they dropped it, it was too late for the state to bring their charges.

Alison Gill (40:53)

Oh, magically. And I personally am against prosecuting anyone for quote, unquote, prostitution. As one of my favorite comedians said, if God wanted women to prostitute themselves, who would have given her free will and a vagina? But that's just me. That's just my own personal. I understand the law is the law, but that's just my own personal. That's just my two cents there. But, yeah, the fact that the statute of limitations for statutory rape had expired is why the sheriff's office in Palm beach and. And Ashley Moody is like, yeah, well, Ashley Moody's like, it's for the locals. And the locals, like, by the way.

Dave Aronberg (41:24)

You said Palm Beach.

Alison Gill (41:25)

Oh, sorry. Orlando.

Dave Aronberg (41:26)

Okay, thank.

Alison Gill (41:27)

Sorry. I didn't mean to sully the reputation of West Palm beach more than it already is.

Dave Aronberg (41:32)

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we're talking about Seminole county, which is actually north of Orlando. Orlando's in Orange County. But, yes, I don't think that this was a move by the state attorney to try to cover up something. I think they just ran out of time. The statute of limitations. I think the mistake here was that I think they, at the federal level were perhaps a little too cautious.

Alison Gill (41:57)

And that's my problem with the DOJ here, with Garland's DOJ here is. Is that witness tampering, the recording that they had, it seems like charges should have been brought there without an underlying crime, though. I mean, maybe. Maybe it's the old Bill Barr memo that we finally got a piece of that said you can't charge obstruction of justice without an underlying crime, which we know is bullshit, but that's the reason that Garland didn't bring charges in. In the Mueller obstruction case with those beautiful 10 or so obstruct that were laid out so beautifully. And Fabulously in volume two of the Mueller report is because of Bill Barr's memo. It was a get out of jail free card for Trump. Shouldn't apply to anyone else. But you know that I think that this over cautious approach was the reason we didn't see charges in the Matt Gaetz obstruction and witness tampering part of this case. Because. Yeah, and I have a huge problem with that. I think that that was a mistake.

Dave Aronberg (42:52)

Well, I would say that most people in the Biden administration, including Joe Biden himself, would say the appointment of Merrick Garland was a M because what they tried to do was they tried to find the antidote to the poisonous DOJ under Bill Barr where it was a revolutionary that had Trump's back on seemingly everything until the stolen election stuff. That garbage was too far for even Bill Barr. But Bill Barr had him back. He was going to had Trump's back. He was essentially Trump's personal lawyer up to a point. And as a reaction to that, Joe Biden and the Democrats said we're going to be more ethical. We're going to find the, the guy who's above politics from the judiciary, who's going to be super cautious and it's going to instill the confidence in everyone. But yeah, I think for a lot of us he was too cautious. And perhaps a Sally Yates or Doug Jones would have changed the course of history. Maybe they would have moved faster and prosecuted people like Donald Trump and Magaz and everything would have been different now.

Alison Gill (43:48)

Well, you know, this, this DOJ did attempt to prosecute Donald Trump and the Supreme Court, we have to thank for ending that. But there should have been open or loud or noisy investigations into the corruption of Bill Barr and Bill Barr's Justice Department. And we just didn't see that because of the caution. And of course the FBI as well, extremely cautious after the huge black eye they got, they gave themselves, I should say, in 2016. So it's frustrating that we are now, we now find ourselves in the position that we're in here we are.

Dave Aronberg (44:23)

And you have been really good about this ag, about making sure the story is straight and correct about Merrick Garland, because there are people who correctly, well, incorrectly say that Merrick Garland just didn't do anything and he dragged us, well, he did, I think drag his feet up to a point. But he did end up prosecuting Donald Trump, then hiring Jack Smith, although that took, I think longer than it needs to be.

Alison Gill (44:47)

And I think I've long said he should have appointed a special counsel in 2021. To investigate the insurrection Donald Trump. It wouldn't have been Jack Smith because he was busy prosecuting war criminals over at the Hague at that time, but it would have been somebody else.

Dave Aronberg (45:00)

That's right. But yeah, I do think the history of Merrick Garland is going to be one told of lost opportunities and someone who was extra cautious, perhaps too timid for this position. And I'll say this, as a prosecutor, when you appoint someone to be attorney general, send a prosecutor to do a prosecutor's job. I don't think it's the best to send a judge to a prosecutor's job because a judge has a different mindset, skill set. The worst thing you can say about a judge is that they're political. So they overreact. They don't even get near the line because they're so careful. But that brings up my favorite quote from my favorite band Rush, Neil Peart, if you choose not to decide, you'll still have made a choice. So if you dither and say, oh, we're not going to decide here, we're going to delay, well, you made a choice then you've made a choice to let these folks free.

Alison Gill (45:51)

Yeah, agreed. All right, my friend, thank you so much for spending some time with us talking about the Matt Gaetz Report and the particular failure of Merrick Garland's Department of Justice. We know that the Bar and Trump Department of Justice was corrupt af but you know, these failures of the Garland Department of Justice and specifically witness tampering and obstruction here I think have to be talked about. So I appreciate your time very much and enjoy your final week as a state prosecutor in Palm beach county, my friend.

Dave Aronberg (46:23)

Yes, it is bittersweet. I'm leaving my job after 12 years. Hopefully I can do more shows like yours AG because I love doing it with you. Hopefully you'll still have me back even after my has been. But I'm gonna, I'm gonna do some private sector law and also expand my own TV and streaming stuff I've been doing. So please follow me on Bluesky at Dave Aronberg. I'm posting there a lot more than the other places. I don't do much on those other places anymore and my YouTube channel, which is True Crime MTN, although we'll be rebranding in the new year to expand the subject matters beyond true crime. So see you there and I'll see you here AG on your show.

Alison Gill (47:03)

Yep. I'll always have you back because I mean I know that it's, you know, some people speculate that once you leave a job, all of that information goes out of your head. But that is just not true. So we will have you back for your incredible expertise on the law, particularly in Florida, because, you know, maybe, maybe not. But I think some more laws are going to be broken in Florida over the next four years.

Dave Aronberg (47:28)

Somehow I think we'll be talking a lot about the Florida man and lots of others in Florida in the future. So please have me back ag and I want to wish you and your listeners a happy new year.

Alison Gill (47:39)

Yeah, happy New Year to you. And yeah, of course, I mean, I think two thirds of his cabinet is from Florida. So we'll keep an eye on it and we'll definitely have you back in the new year. Everybody follow Dave Aronberg A R o N B E R G wherever you need to follow him, especially on YouTube, MTM and at the Midas Touch network who who are good friends of ours and I appreciate your time. Everybody stick around. We'll be right back with the good news. Everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the good news, everyone. Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. And if you have any good news stories you want to send us, all you have to do is go to dailybeanspod.com, click on contacts, submit your good news and attach your pod pet tax. That means a photo of your pet. And if you don't have a pet, you can send us an adoptable pet in your area. If you don't have an adoptable pet in your area, you can send us a photo of any animal. 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All right, first up from anonymous pronoun she and her thank you Beans Queens for keeping me informed and mostly sane these past few years. I just started easing myself back into listening to the beans cleanup and jack again. I'm still mildly shell shocked, but I need to be informed and what better way than MSW podcasts. Thank you. Thank you so much. You asked for photos dissing Trump Properties. I made a point while on a motorcycle trip in Ireland. It was quite satisfying. And my pod pet tax is Henry, my flame Point Siamese Rescue Kitty. He's got an Instagram @henry h e n r I henrykitty travels. He's very smart and is very food motivated, you know. Me too. Thanks. He travels with us in our van and he's brought us so much joy since we rescued him as a little kitten from a capture neuter release organization in Scottish He's a Blue Star kitty now. Thanks for all you and Dana do your work. Your advocacy and fundraising is admirable. Oh he's fantastically beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. And thank you for sharing the bird. The bird watching. We flip the bird at Trump Properties of Trump International Golf Club in Ireland. Thank you so much. Anonymous I love this submission. Next up from Don no pronouns. Brand new listener here. My pick is just about a year old. This liberal boy from MA wasn't going to miss an opportunity to visit Mar A Lado while vacationing nearby. And there you are driving by flipping the bird. I forgot to mention this in the opening of the good news by the way. Something else we love to have submitted. We call it bird watching. Send us your photos of you flipping the bird at Trump Properties or just Trump on tv. Anything, any Trump and flipping bird situation. We love Don. Thank you. Welcome. I'm glad you're here new listener. We appreciate you so so much. Thanks for being here. From Meredith T. Pronoun. She and her hello Beans Queens. I want to give a self shout out. I wasn't one of the amazing people who left post its in bathrooms and on grocery store shelves reminding people that they can vote blue in secret. But that's what I'm doing now because we know that our mission continues. I bought a hundred yellow post its and just started writing messages that I'll be distributing all over Central Florida over these four years and maybe longer year. I'm sending two photos of what I've done so far. Messages like quote none of this is normal or acceptable. Democrats must take back the House and Senate in 2026 and gun violence is the number one killer of children in the US. Thanks Republicans. I'll also be taking information from Joe Biden's impressive record on how he's brought the country back from the brink of disaster in so many ways. If I can do this, anybody can. Meredith T. This is a fantastic way to resist post its in bathrooms. I love it and central Florida especially. Thank you AG and dg. And then we've got a couple of photos here of some of these notes. Thank you so much for this good trouble. Meredith T. I absolutely love it. Next up from Angie Pronoun. She and her Good day beans Queens. This is a shout out to the aca AKA Obamacare. Shortly after getting insurance coverage through the Affordable Care Act, I was diagnosed with thyroid cancer that had already spread to my lymph nodes. Oh gosh. Two years later I was diagnosed with kidney cancer. I'm alive and mostly well today thanks to the Affordable Care Act. The thought of the Orange Evil One and his cult followers destroying the ACA keeps me up at night. Thanks for all you do to keep us informed and a wee bit hopeful. My Podbet Tax is my rescue dog Chukchi. She's a, she's from a village in the northwest in Northwest Alaska. Oh my gosh. Can you guess her breeds? Oh and there's the breeds already listed. So I didn't get a chance to to guess but the answers are a Belgian Malinois, Australian cattle dog, Dutch Shepherd, Lab, Siberian Husky, Malamute and Golden Retriever. I would have said German shepherd and Lab so I would have been the Belgian Malinois. Kind of close to a German shepherd but I, I wouldn't have gotten many of these right. Sorry about that. Our producer usually puts those breeds at the end of the submission but that was not the case in this one so I, I didn't get it. But trust me, even if I had a chance to guess I would have botched it. Beautiful dog. Thank you for your submission. Next up from Erica. She her got a great Christmas present. Finally after 10 years my student loans are finally forgiven. The past year has been anxiety producing. Waiting for the department of education to transfer my account. Then I was in forbearance. Then I had to wait three months for them to figure it out. Now I can retire in 2025. I'll be 69 in January. Think about that. Erica has had this student debt her entire life. Her entire working life for Pod Pet Tax. This is Robin, my most recent indoor cat. There are four. She has to be touching me. Two of the pictures here her asleep across my back. The third picture is next to me on the cat tree. In addition to the four inside, I feed six colony cats. I won't say feral because I've been feeding them for 11 years and they're waiting on my porch when I come home. Thanks for all you do. You and DG are keeping me sane. Look at this lovey. Always touching. So cute and very sleepy. Just one of the cats that sleeps 22 hours a day. Adorable. Next up from Jennifer B. Pronoun. She and her hello. My foster son recently moved on after 11 months with me. We had a special bond so the change has been difficult to fill some space in my heart and mind, I finally started listening to the Daily Beans podcast. Within the first few listens I heard the delightful story about Boswell the Cow and I took it as a sign that I had found my people. I subscribed to see the picture of Boswell the Cow. Truth. I was already planning to support the cause. Jennifer B. I love that this thank you already for the fellowship I feel with you, ag, DG and the listeners. My pod pet tax are my kitties Patty and Reuben. They departed this earth at separate times earlier this year, but remain in my heart. This was the closest I ever caught them near each other. They merely tolerated each other. Bless them. Shout out to Guardians Ad Litem for the work they do in Child Welfare. Great. Shout out Jennifer B. And welcome. Welcome to the Beans. It is definitely a wonderful community. It's the coolest thing I've ever done. I never got a chance to have kids so this community is the coolest thing I've ever been a part of. So I'm glad you're here. And finally from Alice Pronoun. She and her hi Beans team. Quick confession. When I heard the Photoshop change announcement, I was sure we were going to hear the sign was changed to Rump Tower or maybe Rump Trump Oral Golf Club. Erg Barf. It reminded me of what I guess you could call a shit kids read. One year our branch library lost a letter from its sign for the multiple months it took to get fixed. We giggled and rejoiced to visit the pubic library. Ah, the innocence of youth. I suck at photography and don't know how to use Photoshop. So no pictures this time. Hang in there fierce defenders of truth, justice and freedom. Signed Alice. Thank you Alice. Thank you so much. We have a sign these old neon signs from days gone by around San Diego neighborhood and one of them is Kensington. And everything but sin had burned out on Kensington. So we that we call it the City of Sin now. Alice thank you again for your submission. Everyone who has submitted today, thank you so much and welcome to our new listeners. 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