Odds And Ends (feat. John Fugelsang; Adam Klasfeld)

Summary

The Daily Beans – "Odds And Ends"

Date: March 6, 2026
Host: Allison Gill (AG)
Guests: John Fugelsang (JF), Adam Klasfeld (AK)
Theme: Progressive political and legal news, government accountability, ongoing wars, and DOJ/ICE/Federal law enforcement updates with a trademark blend of humor and snark.

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Daily Beans focuses on the rippling consequences of recent U.S. military actions (especially "Operation Epic Fury"), the persistent dishonesty and dysfunction in the current administration’s responses, the political theater around domestic terrorism designations, ICE and DHS misconduct, and high-profile legal cases implicating the Department of Justice's procedures and motivations.
Host Allison Gill is joined by award-winning author and commentator John Fugelsang for incisive and often biting analysis of the week's news, followed by investigative journalist Adam Klasfeld, who delivers deep dives into ongoing legal cases involving ICE and DOJ misconduct.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Operation Epic Fury and the Cycle of "Regime Change" Wars

Timestamps: 02:01–10:19

• JF ridicules the name "Operation Epic Fury," comparing it to a video game or energy drink, and points out the detrimental effects of insufficient planning and care for veterans:

  “It sounds like a video game Pete Hegseth plays in his office between jello shots.” (JF, 02:04)

• AG laments the lack of forethought as the VA is left managing new operational designations that overlap with existing ones (OEF—Operation Enduring Freedom vs. "Epic Fury").

  • She highlights a broader trend of the administration shooting first and asking questions later, with American soldiers paying the price.

• JF draws a historical throughline from Eisenhower, through GOP-led coups in Iran, to today’s repeated mistakes:

  “We’re having another coup 73 years later, even though all this violence has been caused by what Republicans did... and now we’re doing it again.” (JF, 02:52)

• AG and JF critique the administration’s disjointed messaging and inability to articulate a cogent rationale for military engagement, noting that allies are no longer willing to share intelligence.

• Discussion of the lies told to justify U.S. bombing, with JF noting how preemptive war logic was once derided by Eisenhower as a “Hitlerian invention.”

  “Preventative war was an invention of Hitler. I would not listen to anyone seriously who came and talked about such a thing.” (JF quoting Eisenhower, 06:27)

2. Deceptive Political Messaging & Power Grabs

Timestamps: 09:26–11:28

• AG and JF dissect Trump and Marco Rubio’s shifting justifications for preemptive and escalating military actions, exposing contradictions and outright lies.

• JF connects the dots from claims of foreign election interference to “emergency powers” and possible moves to cancel or undermine elections:

  “Every threat becomes a justification. Every justification becomes means, more power.” (JF, 09:50)

• AG discusses Trump allies drafting executive orders to justify federal overreach, from Venezuela to China to Iran, potentially setting up various means to interfere with or suspend elections.

3. War, Retconning, and Accountability

Timestamps: 11:28–14:57

• JF humorously analogizes Trump’s 2020 election lies to bringing back the Emperor in Star Wars Episode 9—spawning endless justifications and retconning.
• AG and JF critique right-wing figures like Pete Hegseth, especially his attacks on the Boy Scouts and technology firms like Anthropic, connecting the dots between performative patriotism, war-mongering, and anti-trans bigotry.
• They discuss the administration’s refusal to implement or respect rules of engagement, inviting war crimes tribunals and criminal proceedings down the line.

4. Kristi Noem, Legal Slop, and ICE Accountability

Timestamps: 18:09–24:46

• AG introduces a discussion about Kristi Noem’s recent congressional testimony:

  • Noem’s hair-splitting between calling someone a "domestic terrorist" and engaging in "domestic terrorism" is examined as legally motivated vagueness designed to maximize political flexibility and legal cover.

• JF:

  “The biggest ball the Democrats have dropped is calling these January 6th terrorists, rioters. They were terrorists. Look in the dictionary.” (JF, 19:48)

• The inability or unwillingness of Republican officials to apologize or take responsibility for misconduct in ICE or law enforcement is sharply critiqued, with the prediction that Noem is positioned to become a fall person for broader administrative failures.

5. Local Legal Action and The Potential for State-Level Accountability

Timestamps: 24:46–26:36

• AG shares positive news:
  • The Hennepin County District Attorney launches criminal inquiries into ICE officer misconduct and possible illegal use of force in Minnesota, particularly surrounding the deaths of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode.
  • Thousands of citizen-submitted videos and tips are now evidence for ongoing investigations—paralleling local accountability in the George Floyd case.

6. Expanded Legal Deep Dives with Adam Klasfeld

Timestamps: 28:48–62:02

• Recurring Patterns of DOJ/DHS Misconduct

  • AK highlights the unchecked use of official DHS accounts to smear criminal defendants before trial, eroding presumption of innocence:

    “...no one is really defending that particular principle, that you don't use government organs to blare propaganda against criminal defendants long before a trial, it shows how desensitized we are...” (AK, 32:00)

• Kilmar Abrego Garcia Case

  • Extensive update on federal prosecution of Garcia:
    • Vindictive and selective prosecution hearing recently held, with judge requiring further briefing.
    • Prosecutors alleged to have reopened a closed investigation for transparently political reasons, with no direct DOJ main-office involvement (a point viewed with skepticism).
    • Key points: Defensive witnesses, presence of a declination memo from a former criminal division chief (Ben Schrader), and the DOJ’s failure to provide this memo up the chain.
  • Significance: If prosecution is dismissed as vindictive, it would be historic—such dismissals are exceedingly rare.

• Boasberg JGG Case—Due Process for "Disappeared" Detainees

  • Recent ruling allows more than 100 detainees sent to El Salvador’s notorious Secote prison to either return to the U.S. for hearings or seek habeas relief from abroad.
  • AG underscores the remarkable courage of 19 individuals choosing re-entry and likely detention for the slim hope of justice.

• DOJ’s Defense and the Administrative "Error" Narrative

  • DOJ shifts between admitting and denying it erroneously sent non-Venezuelans to Secote prison, depending on legal strategy.

• Implications for Future Legal and Political Fights

  • Judges are methodical to ensure their decisions withstand appeals, in stark contrast to the cavalier, politically-motivated oversteps of the administration.

• Biden’s "Auto Pen" Non-Case

  • DOJ’s attempted criminal case over President Biden’s use of the autopen fizzles out in grand jury—highlighted as a comical but dangerous waste of resources:

    “It not being against the law or any criminal law has never stopped Jeanine Pirro before.” (AK, 59:05)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On right-wing warmongering:

  "Preemptive war was an invention of Hitler...I would not listen to anyone seriously who came and talked about such a thing."
  — John Fugelsang, 06:27

• On retconning political mistakes:

  "The lie about Trump winning 2020 is gonna lead to a lot of people retconning and having a lot of stories about how he really did it. Cuz they’ve gotta protect the bad choice from a few years ago. I swear to you, it’s the same thing. Geeks know what I’m talking about."
  — John Fugelsang, 11:50

• On Trump cabinet loyalty:

  "Trump doesn’t believe in loyalty. He believes in obedience...he will treat these cabinet members like a wife if he has to and dump them coldly."
  — John Fugelsang, 24:15

• On ICE agent accountability:

  "We made so much out of the fact that Alex Preddy and Renee Goode were killed so near to where George Floyd was murdered... Let’s not forget that same beautiful state of Minnesota is where we saw the first ever police chief testify against one of his own cops..."
  — John Fugelsang, 26:03

• On government propaganda and the erosion of constitutional norms:

  "...That is now routine, particularly with the Department of Homeland Security, where they’re showing anyone they pick up the photographs and coming and, you know, with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, it’s an extreme case."
  — Adam Klasfeld, 31:36

• On DOJ face-plants:

  "She racked up the amount of face plants that the Department of Justice did in that entire year and she has gotten quite a few other no bills of, you know, famous famously in the, in the sandwich guy prosecution and other cases."
  — Adam Klasfeld, 60:16

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Segment Timestamps (HH:MM)

• 02:01–10:19 — Operation Epic Fury and Repetitive War Policy Failures
• 10:19–14:57 — Lies, Retconning, Election Interference, and Audacious Political Moves
• 18:09–24:46 — ICE, Kristi Noem’s Legal Wordplay, and Congressional Oversight
• 24:46–26:36 — Criminal Investigations Into ICE Misconduct (Local Accountability)
• 28:48–62:02 — Adam Klasfeld Legal Block: DHS/ICE/DOJ Practices, Vindictive Prosecution, Due Process for "Disappeared" Detainees, DOJ's Legal Embarrassments

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Tone and Style

The episode blends righteous anger, razor-sharp wit, and factual rigor. Both AG and JF interleave policy analysis with humor and pop culture analogies, while Adam Klasfeld provides sober, granular legal reporting. The mood is one of determination—sardonic, skeptical, and deeply engaged with the pursuit of justice and democratic accountability.

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Summary for New Listeners

This episode delivers a snarky but incisive tour through the latest examples of right-wing dysfunction, war-mongering, and government overreach, revealing how old mistakes are being repeated at great human cost. Particularly illuminating are the legal deep-dives into ongoing court cases that highlight the tension between careful, methodical judicial work and the reckless partisanship of executive-branch actors. The show closes with a call for continued vigilance—and a reminder of the crucial role of independent journalism and state-level legal action in the fight for accountability.

Transcript

[Allison Gill]

Hi, I'm Frances Collier. And I'm Angela V. Shelton. And we're Frangela. You know what you mean in your life. The Final Word podcast. Yes, you do.

[Adam Klassfeld]

That's right.

[Allison Gill]

It is the final word on all things political and pop cultural, where we make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can resist. Subscribe and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week. It's the news we think you need to hear. That's right. We think you need to hear it. Okay. Yeah. It's what we say. So. That's right. And because all we do is give. Every Thursday, you can listen to our hysterical podcast, idiot of the Week. We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to. Okay? All we do is give. MSW Media.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Daily beans. Daily beans. Daily beans. Daily beans.

[Allison Gill]

Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Friday, March 6, 2026. It is Friday on the Daily Beans. That means it's Fugal sang Fridays. So joining me today is my good friend. He hosts Tell me everything on SiriusXM progress channel 127, weeknights, 9pm Eastern, 6 Pacific. His book, New York Times best selling book, Separation of Church and Hate, just won the Audie for best audiobook. And he also hosts the John Fugalsang show podcast. You can catch him on Substack as well. Please welcome my good friend, John Fugelsang.

[John Fugelsang]

Hello.

[Allison Gill]

My best New York best selling author friend.

[John Fugelsang]

Thank you so much.

[Allison Gill]

Is now an Audie winner.

[John Fugelsang]

Yes. Our best best nonfiction. Best book. So it's great to have a book. It's about the Bible called nonfiction. That on its own is worth two hours of debate. But it's good to see you. Hope you're enjoying Operation Epic Fury. Alison.

[Allison Gill]

Oh, my gosh. Operation Epic Fubo.

[John Fugelsang]

Epic Fury. Do you love it? It's. It sounds like a video game that Pete Hegseth plays in his office between jello shots. Operation Epic Fury. It's like the energy drink that Kash Patel is chugging right now to get more popular with the bros, you know, Epic fuhrer.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And the problem is, is that they don't think two steps ahead. They don't care about veterans. Because when these veterans eventually get to the Department of Veterans affairs, we already have a designation for OEF. That's Operation Enduring Freedom, which happened post 9 11. And now we're gonna have two sets of OEF veterans. Operation EPIC Fury and Operation Enduring Freedom. And they haven't made a specific designation on how to tell the two apart. It's going to be just another massive screw up. And that's just one tiny little fraction of a screw up that is gonna result from shooting first and asking questions.

[John Fugelsang]

I'm sorry, are you saying that right wing politicians don't learn from their mistakes? Are you saying 53 years after Republican President Eisenhower, the last Republican to balance a budget with a surplus after Eisenhower and British intelligence overthrow the democratically elected Prime Minister of Iran, that we're having another coup 73 years later, even though all this violence has been caused by what Republicans did. The Shah, the nut jobs taking over, the religious fundamentalists, the hostage crisis, all the abuses of the Iranian people for the last several decades, all because of Republicans doing regime change in Iran. And they're doing it again. And the media's comparing it to Iraq. You don't need to compare it to Iran because we've already done it there.

[Allison Gill]

Memories are short, my friend. Memories are short. Yeah, I'm not sure how many times you have to touch the stove, but, you know, here we are. And you know, on top of that, we've completely dismantled our national security apparatus and nobody will share intel with us. So are we even in a position to safely do any kind of regime change in the Middle east if that is in fact your purpose? Which it was, and then it wasn't, and now it was, and then it wasn't again. But trying to come up with a reason has proven very difficult for this administration because nobody's talking to each other. They didn't even sit down and come up with a good talking point. Why? So I'm encouraged to see reporters ask every single administration official over and over again to justify this. Because we've lost six service members, and I know we've lost hundreds more on the ground there. But American people want that. U.S. service member, six of them, want to know why we're sending our kids into harm's way and they can't give us a straight answer.

[John Fugelsang]

They cannot. I mean, it's up to six. As of the time we're taping this, we have to remember Trump and Netanyahu killed on the first day. Trump and Netanyahu killed four times as many children as were murdered in Sandy Hook. We have to remember on the second day, we lost three F15 fighter jets. That's canceling out all the money Doge claims to have saved the government last year in cutting people's jobs. We've just pissed all that away.

[Adam Klassfeld]

And.

[John Fugelsang]

And now we're at this. As you said, we're at war again. Not because Congress debated it, not because There was a clear and present danger. Not because the American people demanded it and not because the Joint Chiefs said there's any threat to us. And the way I see it, Dr. Gill, you've got to correct me if I'm wrong. There's two really big lies here. Lots of little lies. Two big lies. And the biggest one is that the war keeps us safe. We had to bomb them for safety. Imminent threat means something we've been teasing on social media for a few months. Even the Pentagon briefers told Congress there was no evidence of any preemptive strike coming out of Iran, no imminent attack. And it seems like the Pentagon outside of Hegseth has thrown Trump and Hegseth under the bus on this one. Cuz we're supposed to believe there's missiles moments away from Cleveland. I mean, and again, like the whole logic is we're gonna bomb, they retaliate against our forces, and then we have to bomb them back because they retaliated. We've made a terrible mistake because Marco Rubio is surrounded by so many stupid people in this cabinet of forgetting how stupid Marco Rubio is. Did you see them asking Marco Rubio about why we were doing this? And he said, well, Israel was going to strike them and they would have struck back and we would have had to hit them. So we just figured, we'll hit them first. Maybe you could tell Israel not to strike them. Marco Rubio is literally using preemptive war 23 years after Bush and as Eisenhower said, preventative war was an invention of Hitler. I would not listen to anyone seriously who came and talked about such a thing.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, well, after Marco said that, he said, well, we had to preemptively be defensive, which just blows my mind.

[John Fugelsang]

Preemptively be defensive.

[Allison Gill]

Then Tuesday, Donald Trump came out and said, no, no, I strong armed Israel into this. And then Marco Rubio had to answer again when a reporter said, okay, you said yesterday that the concern was that Israel was going to do this with or without us and then they would attack us. So we just decided to join. But Donald Trump said that that wasn't true today. And Marco Rubio said, he actually goes, I didn't say that. Were you even here? And she says, yeah, I was the one who asked you the question. And he had to be like, oh, well, you know, what I meant was, I mean, it's just the biggest cluster fighter.

[John Fugelsang]

This is. That's actually good. I'm tired of people taking Marco Rubio seriously, Alison. That's been one of the most grueling parts of this last year that he like, why not hire Dan Quayle? He'll seem like Obi Wan on this cabinet to these other people. And by the way, thank God we have Lindsey Graham on TV letting us know how acceptable it is if more Americans die. It'll be noble. It'll be noble. If anyone dies, it'll be no. Lindsey Graham loves sending other people's kids to fight and die more than Lindsey Graham loves rent boys who keep their mouth shut. But I mean, the other big lie we're getting. And again, we tore up the peace deal with Iran, then we bombed them. We obliterated. Right? That was the word, Alison. We obliterated.

[Allison Gill]

I think that was the word obliterated their nuclear program. Yeah.

[John Fugelsang]

Okay, so maybe we obliterated the meaning of the word obliteration. Because now either they were lying in the fall or they're lying right now and a lot of maggots still don't care.

[Allison Gill]

Well, can you imagine them saying, oh, we actually didn't obliterate their nuclear program and that was the actual threat. I mean, can you imagine them having to admit that they.

[John Fugelsang]

Yeah, yeah, I'm J.D. vance and I'm wearing big boy underpants. Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

I mean, oh, they're throwing him right under the bus as well. Beautiful. They're throwing him right under the bus Saying it was J.D. vance's idea.

[John Fugelsang]

But again, then the weirdest lie, and this is the one we have to lean in on, beyond the lies about the military swore Iran was complying with the nuclear deal. Like Barack Obama's the first person to ever earn a Nobel Peace Prize after he's been given the Nobel Peace Prize. But he did and Trump tore it up. And now we're gonna go to war to get basically the same deal. So it's brilliant. But at 2:30 in the morning, Trump announced this bombing. Cuz that's when you do it constitutionally, like it's an album drop. 2:30 in the morning. And then two hours later at 4:30am, Captain crushed Adderall is still awake. And he posts. Iran interfered in the 2020 and 2024 elections. And there it is, Allison. So war is retroactive campaign customer service. This is the escalation.

[Allison Gill]

By the way, Iran did try to interfere and influence the 2020 election on behalf of Trump.

[John Fugelsang]

That's right.

[Allison Gill]

Merrick Garland arrested two Iranian nationals who posed as proud boys and sent threatening emails to Democrats threatening physical injury if they didn't abandon their party and vote for Donald Trump. So yes, Iran did interfere, try attempt to interfere in the 2020 elections on behalf of Donald Trump.

[John Fugelsang]

So luckily, Fox News viewers will never be told this, so it'll be okay. But look at what their. Their whole escalation, right? Foreign interference is national security, and then national security becomes emergency powers, and emergency powers becomes. Maybe we need to rethink the midterm elections. Right? Like from they meddled to therefore I must control the midterms. And that's maybe what this is all about. Everything becomes a threat. Every threat becomes a justification. Every justification becomes means, more power.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Yeah.

[Allison Gill]

And at first it was Venezuela, and Tulsi Gabbard was down in Puerto Rico seizing voting machines because she was investigating the criminal election interference in 2020 by Maduro.

[John Fugelsang]

Wasn't she, though?

[Allison Gill]

Then it was Trump allies circulating a draft executive order that China interfered in 2020. And that is gonna be the thing that justifies emergency powers. And now it's Iran. And so that's not going to bode well legally for when somebody immediately files a lawsuit if he tries to post cancel elections. Someone will immediately file a lawsuit on behalf of voters. Yeah, And I think it will be immediately stopped, stayed and put on hold until it gets through litigation and the elections will go forward. I think that that's how that plays out. But then what's, you know, what's stopping him from sending ICE and DHS or the Pentagon in to seize voting machines as we're counting ballots? Like it's just going to. And obviously we don't have enough people to do that everywhere, but in some major swing cities, perhaps Houston, maybe, you know, something where they're really under threat for flipping statewide seats in the Senate race down there.

[John Fugelsang]

Oh, yeah.

[Allison Gill]

So, you know, it all boils down to retribution for 2020 because he can't stand that he lost to Joe Biden.

[John Fugelsang]

Exactly.

[Allison Gill]

And trying to stop elections from happening and. Or cheat in them.

[John Fugelsang]

There's to my reckoning, and this is the thesis I'm putting forward in a peer review paper. There's two great atrocities, right? Two great crimes in the last decade. One is Trump's lie about the 2020 election, and the other is the decision to bring the emperor back in Star Wars Episode 9 without explaining how they brought the Emperor back. These two things have caused so much suffering in our world in the last several years, and they both have a lot in common. Because in both cases, a lot of people are spending a lot of time and a lot of money retconning a bad choice from over five years ago. The choice to bring the emperor back means that Disney is gonna be full of TV series trying to justify this bad piece of storytelling for the next 10 years. And the lie about Trump winning 2020 is gonna lead to a lot of people retconning and having a lot of stories about how he really did it. Cuz they've gotta protect the bad choice from a few years ago. I swear to you, it's the same thing. Geeks know what I'm talking about. And throughout all this, we have to remember to thank our MAGA voting friends for not just the body bags, but the higher gas prices as well. Don't forget to thank your MAGA coworkers for that, friends, because that's going to happen. You know why? The oil companies have a chance to jack up gas prices. That's why. So a lot of evil people are very happy from all of this. The market. We'll see how much the markets respond to it. But you know better than me, Alison, I don't think this is the sort of mission accomplished banner movement where they can get out all that easily. They. It seems to be when it comes to this area, you know, last week Pete Hegseth was literally beating up on the boy Scouts. Last week he was literally beating up the boy Scouts saying that they won't allow any trans scouts in. Scouts shut down because men were raping children. Pete didn't mention that. He just said no more trans kids and no girls in the scout. Like, what about no more raping? No.

[Allison Gill]

He even tried to get them to change their name from Scouting America back to Boy Scouts of America.

[John Fugelsang]

I know, I know. But again, we like. We like child rape now and we like war now. Forget what you heard about MAGA two months ago. This is who you are now. Remember the old days last Friday when Hegseth was at war with Anthropic over letting robots murder people without human oversight. That seems innocent today.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, I know, right? And we actually found out a couple of hours after he declared it a supply chain risk and said no it could use Anthropic anymore. They actually used Anthropic in the attack. The attacks on Iran.

[John Fugelsang]

It's amazing, isn't it? And all Anthropic said was they had two rules. Two rules that Trump and Hegseth called treasonous, which was, you can't use this to kill people.

[Allison Gill]

No autonomous lethal weapons and no surveilling Americans.

[John Fugelsang]

No autonomous lethal weapons and no surveilling Americans. Like that is so pro civilization. That's the sort of thing that if conservative men and women heard about, they would agree with. But just to underscore that Pete Hegseth is this petty, punitive, petulant, prickly. He's making it about how they're not patriots while he's also attacking trans kids for ruining the boy scouts and not the cisgender men who raped the damn children in the first place. This guy Hegseth, oh, it's gonna be a pleasure. He came out and said, we're not gonna have any rules of engagement this time. Alison. He's making it really easy for the war crimes driver unal, isn't he? He really seems to think that can't happen.

[Allison Gill]

He is. He is. And speaking of tribunals for war crimes, at least here on domestic soil, I wanna talk a little bit. Kristi Gnome, Greg Bovino, Some things that happened today. But we have to take a quick break, so everybody stick around. We'll be right back. This episode is brought to you by IQ Bar, our exclusive snack and hydration sponsor. IQ Bar is the better for you. Plant protein based snack made with brain boosting nutrients to refuel, nourish and satisfy hunger without the sugar crash. And right now, IQ Bar is offering you an all exclusive deal. 20% off all IQ Bar products plus get free shipping. Just text Daily Beans to 64,000 now. IQ Bar is a strong option for anyone looking to support a demanding day with products that are both convenient and well formulated. Their extraordinary lineup includes plant protein bars, hydration mixes, and mushroom coffees. And the Ultimate Sampler pack is the best place to start because it includes all three in just one box. You get nine IQ Bars, eight IQ Mix sticks and four IQ Joe sticks, which makes it easy to pick your favorites with IQ Bar. All products are clean, label, certified and free from gluten, dairy, soy, GMO and artificial ingredients. There's none of that. They also include functional ingredients like magnesium, which really helps me with my sleep and lion's mane. Intended to support physical and mental performance, IQ Bars plant protein bars are a great option to carry with you every day. They provide plant protein, fiber and no added sugar for hydration. IQ Mix is a zero sugar drink mix with electrolytes positioned to support clarity and mood. And for mornings, IQ Joe delivers a mushroom coffee designed for mental clarity with 200 milligrams of natural caffeine in four flavors. They've got a wide range of flavors from mint chocolate chip bars to blueberry pomegranate hydration mixes. It's pretty amazing. And right now, IQ Bar is offering our special podcast listeners 20% off all IQ Bar products, including the Ultimate Sampler Pack, plus free shipping. So to get your 20% off, text Daily Beans to 64,000. Text Daily Beans all one word to 64,000. That's Daily Beans to 64,000. Message and data rates may apply. See terms for details. Hi, I'm Frances Collier. And I'm Angela V. Shelton. And we're Frangela. You know what you mean in your life. The Final Word podcast. Yes, you do.

[Adam Klassfeld]

That's right.

[Allison Gill]

It is the final word on all things political and pop cultural, where we make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can resist. Subscribe and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week. It's the news we think you need to hear. That's right. We think you need to hear it. Okay. Yeah. It's what we say.

[Adam Klassfeld]

So. That's right.

[Allison Gill]

And because all we do is give. Every Thursday, you can listen to our hysterical podcast, Idiot of the Week. We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to. Okay. All we do is give. All right, everybody, welcome back. We're talking to John Fugelsang on Feagal Sang Fridays here on the Daily Beans. Thank you so much for joining us. And the reason we have a little bit of a different show format is because last night, the entire staff of the Daily Beans and MSW media were at the GLAAD Awards. So that's why we're doing this a little bit differently today. So thanks for tuning in for listening,

[John Fugelsang]

and congratulations, by the way.

[Allison Gill]

Thank you very, very much. You too, Adi.

[John Fugelsang]

It's a big award show week.

[Allison Gill]

It is award show week for us podcasters and book writers and authors. But I wanted to talk a little bit about ice. The first thing I wanted to ask you about or just have a discussion about is Kristi Noem on Tuesday was at a hearing. And at one point in the hearing, she was arguing with Mazie Hirono, Senator Hirono, about whether or not she had called Alex Preddy a domestic terrorist. And she split hairs and said, I didn't call him a domestic terrorist. I said, he engaged in domestic terrorism. And everyone's like, oh, whatever, bullshit. But I remembered watching back on January 27 1, Heather Cox Rich say in one of her videos that she puts out, her incredible videos that she puts out on her YouTube channel, she's like, I've noticed. And I'm taking stock of the fact that every time she talks about this, she doesn't say domestic terrorist. She says domestic terrorism. And there's a reason for that. It's legal slop. When you say domestic terrorism. Being a domestic terrorist is a specific legal term of art, whereas engaging in domestic terrorism means you can round up and be vague about anybody that you think is somehow a national security threat. And so I thought that that was very interesting that she actually admitted while testifying today that she was splitting that hair and hedging and using vague slop instead of precise legal terms.

[John Fugelsang]

Well, two points to that. Number one, the dictionary defines terrorism as using violence or the threat of violence against the civilian population to bring about policy change.

[Allison Gill]

That's what she did.

[John Fugelsang]

Which is why the dictionary. The biggest ball the Democrats have dropped is calling these January 6th terrorists, rioters. They were terrorists. Look in the dictionary. We have to reframe this. It's not too late to say you

[Allison Gill]

don't even have to look in the dictionary or frame it as some. That is what the sentencing violence or

[John Fugelsang]

the fear of violence against a civilian population or government to bring about policy changes.

[Allison Gill]

And the judges approved adding a domestic terror enhancement to their sentences. Like proud boys, oath keepers, etc.

[John Fugelsang]

That's right. They free terrorists.

[Allison Gill]

So it's adjudicated terrorists. They are adjudicated terrorists.

[John Fugelsang]

Yeah. And let's thank Trump and Pam Bondi for freeing Camp Auschwitz guy. Let's never forget that. But even the more weaselly part of Christine was that so much of this was her trying to keep her job because her context of calling him a domestic terrorist was that then she blamed it on Stephen Miller and said that, Stephen, Stephen. The only time I've heard her use him by a first name basis. Stephen told me to say this so you can tell that she has been chewed out and screamed at by Donald Trump and Miller and God knows whoever else.

[Allison Gill]

She's mad at Steven because Steven's mad at her affair with Corey Lewandowski, by the way.

[John Fugelsang]

Probably. And let's talk about the affair with Corey Lewandowski. I just want to say, when you're responsible for the murders of two American citizens and you shot a dog in the face once, it's good to have something more disgusting than that on your resume. So well done with Corey Lewandowski. But I think a lot of these cartwheels we saw.

[Allison Gill]

I've been giving a vomit warning instead of a content warning whenever I talk about Lewandowski and Gnome.

[John Fugelsang]

Oh, my God, can you imagine? I mean, and listen, I just. That this woman thinks this is gonna be leadership for her. It's so great to see Democrats asking tough questions because honestly, if these Democrats didn't do this today, she would get away with it. You can't be the face of a movement when your face has no movement. And today we saw something beautiful. She was forced to obfuscate and acknowledge, in a way, her own lie about Alex Preddy. But I wish the Democrats had gone further and brought up what she had said, that Trump and Stephen Miller said that first and gave her the instruction she was trying to save her job today. And I think the Democrats let her off the hook a little bit on that one regard.

[Allison Gill]

I think somebody brought that up. It might have actually been a Republican. It could have been Thom Tillis who took her to the gravel pit, so to speak.

[John Fugelsang]

Yeah, well, he's on his way out.

[Allison Gill]

He. Of course, yeah. It's easy to do when you're retiring. That's why we need term limits. People can have spines when they go into Congress, not when they're leaving.

[John Fugelsang]

And John Kennedy did a bit as well. John Kennedy.

[Allison Gill]

Kennedy did as well. Right. Yeah. So they all kind of went after her, which says to me that she is going to be the fall person. She's going to take the fall for this. They were already looking to get rid of her when she wasn't opening concentration camps fast enough at the end of last year. They wanted her out in January. There was an issue between her and Stephen Miller, according to some reports. A lot of it has to do with the red line of Stephen Miller's, like, red line on infidelity and monogamy. It's a huge issue for me. Yet he is working for Donald Trump. So I don't, I don't quite understand and, or believe that.

[John Fugelsang]

Come on. All these, all these, all these homophobes, all these people who pretend to follow the book of Leviticus to hate the gays. Leviticus commands you to stone adulterers to death. They don't believe in the Bible. If they did, they wouldn't follow Trump. But when Senator Klobuchar today bringing up Alex Preddy's parents and that led to Kristi Noem's hideous dodge saying, I didn't call him a domestic terrorist. And I said he committed an act of domestic terrorism. The real point to there wasn't her weaseliness. It was her complete indifference to the subject of the question, the grieving parents of the man who is dead because of her coward goons. And she offered no kind of condolence in any way because she does not care about the parents of this young American who was murdered by her goons.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah. And interesting Republican talking point against Kristi Noemi is that I think it was Thom Tillis who's like you've cast a pall on our ICE agents, our brave ICE agents out there doing the good work, what they're supposed to do. But now you've cast a pall on them because you refuse to hold any of them that do the wrong thing accountable. You can't even apologize. You can't even admit you made a mistake. And that. No, I, I completely don't agree with that line. But as a Republican, for Republicans, for them to say you're putting our officers in harm's way. It's an interesting way for him to spin it.

[John Fugelsang]

Nah. Because all they're doing is they're gonna beat up on her to avoid having to actually criticize the president. Okay, this is why we talk about it. This is why he hires all these numbnesses and amateurs and losers. Cuz competent people would say, Mr. President, you can't do that. So he hires these schmoes so he can easily blame them when things go bad and cut him off. So, I mean, he's gonna lance Christie Noem like a boil once it's bad for him. That's why it's easy for them to pile on Kristi Noem, because they're not gonna pile on the commander in chief. And if I was Kash Patel, if I was Pete Hegseth, if I was RFK Jr. I'd be watching very closely right now to see how it goes. Cuz at the end of the day, Trump doesn't believe in loyalty. He believes in obedience. Loyalty goes two ways. And he will treat these cabinet members like a wife if he has to and dump them coldly.

[Allison Gill]

Nice. One last little bit of good news. If we end on a good note, the Hennepin County District Attorney has said that she has launched criminal investigation into Gregory Bevino and 17.

[John Fugelsang]

God bless.

[Allison Gill]

God bless ICE officers for their actions illegal against Minnesota law. Actions on the ground in Minneapolis, including launching tear gas when they're not supposed to, using less than lethal force when it's being illegally used, and her launch of that public portal for citizens to send in video evidence. She's gotten thousands of tips and video and evidence. And she's also said even though the FBI is not cooperating in the murders of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode, we have closed that portal. We've gotten more than a thousand responses for evidence in those cases. And it's now in the hands of the bca, which is the Bureau of Criminal Apprehension, it's the Minnesota state investigative arm. And they're gonna present a report back to the Hennepin County DA on potential criminal charges for the murders of Alex Preddy and Renee Goode. So I'm very, very pleased about that work at the Hennepin County DA's office.

[John Fugelsang]

17 different incidents, 17 different investigations going on right now. And why, Allison? It's almost like the henchmen didn't realize that the immunity ruling doesn't apply to henchmen, as we've discussed so many times.

[Allison Gill]

But they were just following orders.

[John Fugelsang]

Just following orders. Oh, yeah, and I'm sure these state authorities will feel exactly the same. We made so much out of the fact that Alex Preddy and Renee Goode were killed so near to where George Floyd was murdered. But let's not forget that same beautiful state of Minnesota is where we saw the first ever police chief testify against one of his own cops to send Derek Chauvin away for life for wearing a badge and thinking that gave him entitlement to murder a person. I can't wait to see what kind of sentences that Trump can't pardon get handed down on the state level for the crimes committed.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, and I hope we see more of it. I hope this creates a permission structure for other DA's to do the same.

[John Fugelsang]

We are gonna be shelling out money for the rest long after Donald Trump's arteries have done what God wants them to do. Alison, we will be witnessing justice delayed for these victims. We, the taxpayers, will be shelling out billions in class action lawsuits for the people who were hurt or stolen from or fired or put in concentration camps or deported and tortured. We're gonna be paying for these sins for a very long time. And that's why the only Democrats who get my support are the ones who talk about independent counsels and truth and reconciliation committees and accountability.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, agreed. Well, my friend, it's been wonderful to talk to you. Thank you so much for coming on. Everybody. You absolutely have to hear now. The Audie Award win audiobook version of Separation of Church and Hate. If you don't have your physical copy, you should get a bunch of those, too, and put them in the little libraries around your town. Little free libraries. It's New York Times bestseller. You can't go wrong, right?

[John Fugelsang]

And I hope you had a great time last night at the GLAD Awards, Allison.

[Allison Gill]

Thank you. Also, check out Tell me everything on SiriusXM progress127. That's channel127, weeknights at 9pm Eastern, 6 Pacific. It's great. Call in, show. You can call in, you can interact. It's a really, really good time. I Like when you have TV's Frank Coniff on there, it's always a joy on Fridays. So really appreciate you coming on today and we'll see you soon.

[John Fugelsang]

Thank you, Goddess. See you soon.

[Allison Gill]

All right, everybody, stick around. We're going to take a quick break and I have another surprise for you. I'll be right back with Adam Klassfeld. We'll be right back. History is messy. It's weird, wild and anything but boring. Rainy Day Rabbit Holes is a history podcast about unhinged stories that make you stop and ask, wait, is this real life?

[Adam Klassfeld]

From crazy disasters and tasty scandals to

[Allison Gill]

enlightening and surprising heartwarming tales, we explore the moments where people behave badly and sometimes beautifully. We've got naughty politicians, cultural chaos and a deep love for the Pacific Northwest, including Bigfoot. It's thoughtful, irreverent, occasionally serious and always entertaining. Let's fall down the rabbit hole. MSW Media

[John Fugelsang]

Foreign.

[Allison Gill]

Hey, everybody. Welcome, welcome. My name is Allison Gill. Joining me today from All Rise News, incredible independent media source for all things docket, all things Justice Department. Please welcome Adam Klassfeld. Hi, Adam, how are you?

[Adam Klassfeld]

Great to see you again, Allison. I'm doing well. How are you?

[Allison Gill]

I'm good. I had a week off and generally when that happens, a bunch of stuff goes down. We didn't the Trump administration did not disappoint in this particular case. But I'm back now and I wanted to talk to you to get an update on a couple of things. But I know that you and I both have been watching clips and testimony, you know, where and when we can, of these hearings, this series of hearings on the Hill with the secretary of Department of Homeland Security, Kristi Noem. And it's not been going well for her. She is getting dragged by the both members of both parties over the last two days. And a lot of it has to do with, you know, on the Republican side, they're actually blaming her for putting ICE officers in danger and in harm's way for being such a terrible leader and for, you know, costing so much money. Talking about fema, I know Thom Tillis went after her about that. On the Democratic side, obviously there's a lot of questions about, you know, her integrity, ability to lead, that she should be impeached. Some of her offenses are impeachable. But something that was missing, I noticed, and I know you noticed it too, because we talked about this offline, was that nobody brought up directly Trisha McLaughlin, the mouthpiece for DHS up until recently, her lies. I mean, I know Balint brought up their lies in court, but, you know, not the lies to the public. And of course, missing is Kilmar Abrego Garcia, who you have an update on because you recently went to a hearing, right?

[Adam Klassfeld]

Well, one of the things that was very noticeable to me, it includes Kamara Brago Garcia, but it also includes many other people that her office has been going after. This pattern that we're seeing of using official Department of Homeland Security accounts, using her own official account to try to tar people before any trial begins. And this has just become something that is so part of the air, so part of the water, that when there comes to be the time for an oversight hearing, something that's so foundational to any sort of legal system that if the government is going to try to take away your freedom and trying to accuse you of a crime, you're entitled to the presumption of innocence, and the government has to prove you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. And no one, even the ones who are very much holding Kristi Noem accountable for many things, the contracts for Thom Tillis, even what she wrote about shooting her dog, you know, they're going deep there. But the very foundational proposition that you shouldn't try to smear a criminal defendant before a trial, particularly with allegations that you didn't charge that person with. And yes, that counts for Kilmar Abrego Garcia, but that is now routine, particularly with the Department of Homeland Security, where they're showing anyone who they pick up the photographs and coming and, you know, with Kilmar Abrego Garcia, it's an extreme case. They're accusing him of sex crimes that he's not charged march with. They're accusing him of being a gang member, even though that has nothing to do really with his criminal prosecution. And even though every judge who has scrutinized that those allegations found that it doesn't add up. And the fact that we have official government counts and very few doing it more gratuitously and promiscuously as the Department of Homeland Security accounts, and no one is really defending that particular principle, that you don't use government organs to blare propaganda against criminal defendants long before a trial, it shows how desensitized we are to it and how much that has just become an accepted part of our discourse, that given a lengthy opportunity to challenge one of the worst offenders of that principle, no one appears to be doing it.

[John Fugelsang]

No.

[Allison Gill]

Right. And in any other timeline, that would be something, you know, taking away someone's presumption of innocence, guaranteed by the Constitution would be something that every single member of either party should be asking about, since it happens so often. And you're right, I think, because the goal of doing it so often is probably to desensitize people to it. And it appears to have worked because it hasn't come up in these hearings, which I think is very odd. But talk a little bit about the last time you and I spoke. We were awaiting a hearing on vindictive and selective prosecution, one that had been postponed, agreed upon postponement, but has also been stonewalled by this Department of Justice quite a few times. But we've had that hearing now, and we did not get a ruling. We got a request for additional briefing, as a matter of fact, correct?

[Adam Klassfeld]

That's correct. And to give a little bit even more background to last week's hearing. And I went down to Nashville, Tennessee, to cover it. And one of the things that was notable about this hearing was Kilmar Brago Garcia walked into court flanked by his wife and local activists who had been ushering him from his Maryland home to the courthouse in Nashville, Tennessee. And that's very significant in and of itself because the last time that Kristi Noem was before the Congress, what she said is that Kilmar Abrego Garcia will never, ever step set foot on U.S. soil. And he did. He did. After winning multiple bail hearings in federal court, he won his release from pretrial trial criminal detention, and he won his release after that. When he was taken into immigration custody, he won, ruling after ruling, essentially rejecting the government's attempts to send him to a growing lineup of countries in Africa to which he has no connection. And so that's a backdrop of last week's hearing. And this is. It was a very significant hearing for Kilmar Abrego Garcia, because if he wins on vindictive prosecution, not only will he have succeeded in his habeas corpus case, the criminal case could be dismissed and the hearing even taking place before anything happened, before any attorney said any word in that court. He started out ahead because the fact that the hearing is taking place means that Judge Waverly Crenshaw has found a reasonable likelihood of vindictive prosecution. And it was the government's burden to overcome the presumption of vindictiveness. And they tried to do so with two witnesses. And those witnesses were a special agent in charge of Homeland Security and just investigations. Rana Sue. So and the former acting U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee, Robert McGuire, notice who I didn't say was on the witness list. They didn't call Todd Blanche, whose disastrous interview on Fox with Laura Ingraham is why Kilmar Brigo Garcia was able to persuade the judge that a vindictive prosecution hearing was necessary because it was Todd Blanche who said that, that he was investigated because a federal judge questioned their decision to spirit him out of the country. That was what Judge Crenshaw found so striking to call this hearing. So they call two lower level witnesses, you know, higher up in this particular district, but they don't go to what main justice's role in it was and what the accounts that they gave was. Well, this was because it was a locally run operation. The head of Homeland Security investigations for the Nashville branch, the special agent in charge of that division, had claimed that she found out about Kilmar Brago Garcia's case from an article in the conservative Tennessee Star and that she Learned about this 2022 traffic stop where there was body cam footage of the incident. And on cross examination, you had Kilmar Brigo Garcia's attorneys pointing out that that footage was a source of national coverage before being part of a small circulation local weekly. It was not that he, she. Excuse me, the defense attorney pointed out that this was something that Donald Trump himself commented on.

[Allison Gill]

She was trying to insinuate that she just stumbled upon this and was like, oh, I wonder what this is about, and reopened an already closed investigation, twice enclosed investigation into a 2022 traffic stop.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Essentially what she said was she was mailed this article via email by some colleague, she doesn't know who, and that's her account of how this investigation started. And then we have Robert McGuire, the former acting U.S. attorney for the Middle District of Tennessee, now the number two prosecutor in that district. And his story is that he made the decision by himself without interference from the Department of Justice. But before the new year, I remember us hopping on a substack live very much like this one, talking about the internal communications between Maguire and Todd Blanche's aide, Akash Singh, who they also didn't call as a witness, who they also avoided putting on that witness stand. And we found out during that hearing that the day that Robert Maguire had gotten the case, hours after he got the case, he receives an email from Akash Singh alerting him to the existence of the person who had become the top key cooperating witness against Kilmar abrego Garcia. Robert McGuire did not know about this cooperating witness until receiving this email. So much emerged.

[Allison Gill]

Adam, can I ask you, was that what the top cooperating witness, the one of Two that we learned about during those early hearings to see if they could get a detention hearing.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Exactly. It's the one who is a three time former felon, the man who is alleged to be at the top of the criminal conspiracy and who is receiving help with his criminal sentencing and his immigration, his immigration status because he was a person who was deported from the United States five times, who is now the government star witness against Kilmar Abrego Garcia.

[Allison Gill]

So people may remember you and I. Sorry to interrupt, but people may remember you and I talked about how odd it is to take the leader of a, of a criminal organization and use them as a witness to, and give them clemency to get somebody way down at the bottom of the ladder. That's the guy that we're talking about here.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Exactly. And there was a news story that emerged shortly after Abrego was sent back to the United States for a criminal prosecution, reporting that the then chief of the Criminal Division had quit in protest, believing that this was a decision that was made for political reasons. Well, we found out more about that during the vindictive prosecution hearing. We learned, for example, that this former criminal division chief had memorialized his reasoning in writing that there was a declination memo saying why he didn't think that this criminal case should proceed. And he asked Robert McGuire, then top prosecutor in the District, to pass it on to the folks in D.C. was how he put it. It was never passed on to the people in D.C. robert McGuire testified that he told people about the decision, but he didn't pass on the memo. And we haven't. This is the first time we've heard of such a memo. It'll be interesting to see whether this memo ever reaches the light of day. This is someone who was the longtime head of the Criminal Division in the Middle District of Tennessee and whose former deputy, by the way, Rascoe Dean, is now on Kilmar Abrego Garcia's defense team. He was one of the people who was questioning the witnesses last week.

[Allison Gill]

I was wondering if that's how Abrego's defense team caught wind of the fact of a declination memo. But was it Ben Schrader? Was that the, the guy's name who quit?

[Adam Klassfeld]

That is correct. Ben Schrader was a former criminal division chief who protested against this criminal prosecution proceeding. He memorialized his read, his reasons. And those reasons have not hit the light of day, at least so far as the memo goes. But it confirms the earliest reporting we heard about this, about the shakeup that preceded this criminal Prosecution. And that's why I'm going to be looking closely for any revelations so far as that memo goes. Once the post hearing briefings come out on this case.

[Allison Gill]

I'm interested in that too, because that was going to be my follow up question is whether or not anybody had handed over that declination memo and discovery, not discovery more broadly, but discovery for the vindictive and selective prosecution hearing. Because it seems like it would be some pretty strong evidence to go toward a vindictive and selective prosecution. But the admittance of the existence of the memo is very interesting and the fact that it wasn't, I didn't transmit it to the guys in D.C. as also fascinating and probably why you don't want to put somebody like Todd Blanche or Akash Singh on the stand because they would be asked under oath if they saw that declination memo and there would be a paper trail if there was, because I doubt he flew up and physically handed it to them if he did in fact send it their way. They'd much rather get Robert Maguire from or, you know, lying under oath if that's the way that it comes down. One last quick question on Abrego. What do you take away from the fact that Crenshaw has asked for additional briefing? I believe he gave 30 days for additional briefing, which is, you know, one side, another side in a response if necessary. And he gave 30 days. Do you think that's more of a, this is a very high profile case. Let me make sure I take every possible step to avoid my decision getting turned over on appeal. Or do you think he actually needs more briefing because of perhaps the Department of Justice's stonewalling or he wants to give the Abrego team an opportunity to ask or mention that declination memo. What do you take away from that?

[Adam Klassfeld]

Well, I think that Judge Crenshaw has shown himself to be a very careful and cautious judge. I should note that during the hearing there were no oral arguments. There was just questioning of the witnesses. So we have this big evidentiary record. The parties need to have an opportunity to process it, to read through this transcript, analyze what these witnesses were saying. I think everyone knows that if he does throw out this prosecution, one I have been covering the courts for nearly two decades. I've never seen a case dismissed on vindictive prosecution. It's a very rare occurrence. The government would almost certainly appeal that ruling. And so there I think that the judge is looking for as much briefing as possible that would include all of the evidence that came into court, all of the arguments for when does it reach the level that a case must be dismissed because it was so clearly brought for the wrong reason? So since we didn't have oral arguments, I think these briefings will be an opportunity where we can see all the information that emerge be put together into a coherent narrative, into coherent legal arguments. We might see whether the government will produce the declination memo of the criminal division chief who said no to this case, whether that is going to be an issue that is going to figure into whether this case is ultimately thrown out. But to your question, Allison, I just think that he is proceeding as cautiously and carefully as you would expect for a case of this magnitude. A case that got national attention as we're approaching the one year anniversary. You know, we're not there yet, but we're getting close to when Kilmar Brego Garcia was spirited onto a plane, sent to El Salvador's torture prison and this whole saga began. And the interest in this case has never really relented since that time. And just as Judge Zinis in the immigration case gave the government every opportunity to show legitimate reasons for deciding to try to send Kilmar Brigo Garcia to Uganda, tried to send him to Eswatini and Liberia and other countries, and not Costa Rica, which is a country that Kilmar Abrego Garcia agreed to be deported to. We're seeing Judge Crenshaw and Judge Zinis giving the government every opportunity so that if and when this case were to go on appeal, it would be absolutely bulletproof.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, and it's so frustrating to see the lower courts go through all of this incredible due process and thoroughness and briefing and oral arguments and additional briefing, only to have the Supreme Court often shit all over it by just making decisions on the emergency docket. But that's a whole other show you mentioned. This all started when Abrego was whisked away in the night in mid March of last year to Seacoat Prison in El Salvador. Really briefly, there's an update in the Bozberg JGG case. These are the original class of the rest of the people who were disappeared to Seacote. They were then traded to Venezuela in a prisoner swap and set free. And Bozberg came back and said, hey, all of these 140 or so people in this putative class, I order the DOJ to give them an opportunity to get the due process they deserved before they were sent improperly to Seacoat Prison. And surprisingly to me, there were, there were non zero people willing to come back to the United States risk certain detention in order to see their due process be given them their, you know, their due process. Can you talk a little bit about do I have that right, first of all? And what do you think is going to come of that?

[Adam Klassfeld]

You have that absolutely right. It is worth emphasizing how limited and this is a chief U.S. district Judge Jeb Boasberg, the, the judge who has been vilified by Trump's Justice Department and Trump allies on Capitol Hill who have been talking loosely about his impeachment and trying to discredit him with a, with a rejected disciplinary complaint that was based

[Allison Gill]

on absolute document that the DOJ wasn't supposed to have.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Right, Correct. Correct. And, and, and some in a document that FR misrepresented based on all available evidence that we know about it. Which is another story.

[Allison Gill]

Which is why they probably didn't attach it to their complaint.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Exactly. But what we have here is Judge Boasberg in his ruling nearly a year after the government spirited these people and notice I don't say the word deport, deport conveys some sort of legality. Yeah. I mean they just whisked these people on a plane, sent them to Seacoast Prison in El Salvador and the, and Judge Boasberg said for the more than 100 who, you know, they're not in C code anymore, but they're in Venezuela and other countries that you must, you, the federal government must provide one of two options. You must give them the opportunity to come back to the United States on, on the US Government's dime because, you know, the their spiriting out of the country was on the government's time. Or you must give them an opportunity to initiate habeas corpus proceedings in other countries with the knowledge that anyone who returned to the United States because they were unlawfully sent out of the country that they could be put into detention. New immigration and deportation proceedings could be initiated then while in detention. To your point, yes. The I believe I can't recall offhand whether it was 18 or 19, but there were 19. I think 19 is correct. Yeah. 19 people decided to go with the option of vindicate their rights to return to the United States where they knew they would face detention, a new round of proceedings and we don't know how many others decided on door number two. What the government signaled today is they are going to appeal even that part of the ruling which was based in no small part on the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia because The Supreme Court decided 90 that the government had to facilitate Abrego's return to the United states. That was a 90 case. The government's position is now that they have violated the due process rights of these more than 100 people. They don't have any obligations. They do not have to allow them to go back to the United States for any hearings. They don't need to provide habeas corpus, that these are outside of their jury, these men are outside of their jurisdiction and you know, sorry and good luck. That's the government's position. That's the position that they're going to try to push in the appellate courts now with this notice of appeal, knowing that the last time they tried to advance that position in the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, all nine justices said, no, you're that isn't your ob the end of your obligations regarding the due process rights of someone who you whisked and, and spirited out of the country without any process. Some processes owed. There needs to be some there that at least in Abrego's case, his return had to be facilitated back to the United States.

[Allison Gill]

So why didn't the just why didn't the Justice Department argue that the Abrego case is different? Because we wrongfully sent Abrego act mistakenly, erroneously sent Abrego to Secote because he had a no go to El Salvador order on the books. Why not argue that? Because you'd have to admit that you wrongfully said Dabrego to Seaco. Like, I mean, that seems like it's still not a winnable argument, but at least a more colorable one.

[Adam Klassfeld]

I don't doubt that is going to be a distinction they're going to draw. I mean, what, what we have to put in a little bit of perspective here is that the more than 100 men at issue, most of them are Venezuelan immigrants who were rounded up in the Alien Enemies act litigation. When Trump issued his Alien Enemies act proclamation, that was based on the idea that there was an invasion via Venezuela through the gang Train de Aragua. Now, we have found since then how few people had any traceable affiliation with Trend Aragua with Kilmar Brego Garcia. He is not Venezuelan. The gang that they accused him of association with was not Train de aragua, but Ms. 13. And they even admitted to your point that it was, in their words, an administrative error to send him to see cot with these more than 100 men.

[Allison Gill]

They fired the guy who said that and they haven't admitted it since, Correct?

[Adam Klassfeld]

Well, they keep, you know, it's interesting because they admit it when it serves their arguments, and they distance themselves from it when it doesn't because they have gone back and forth a couple of times.

[Allison Gill]

Okay. Okay. All right.

[Adam Klassfeld]

I think that if they realize it is in the government's best interest to acknowledge that talking point, will see it resurrected once again.

[Allison Gill]

Okay. I thought that they had kind of totally clammed up about it, but you're right. I think they have brought it up when it serves them, and I, I imagine they'll do the same here. But, like, what a weird argument they've chosen to make. I haven't read the brief yet. I know you just sent it to me, but thanks for coming on, explaining all this. Everyone. Adam Klassfeld and All Rise News do not answer to corporate overlords. They depend on the generosity and support from readers and listeners. It's free, obviously, to subscribe to All Rise News, but if you're able, if you have the means to help Adam travel around, go to these courtrooms, be in the court so that he can bring us these important details from inside the courtroom, you can do that at All Rise News here on Substack. It would be really appreciated. And speaking of that, Adam, before I let you go, where are you off to next?

[Adam Klassfeld]

Well, I think one of the next big hearings will be right here in New York City. There's going to be another hearing in the Maduro case later in the month. So right now I'm looking at some of the federal court hearings in my own backyard. I think there's another one that should be coming to a head soon in terms of the clampdown from Trump's State Department on speech. When it comes to a researcher of online disinformation, that's another case in Manhattan federal court. So the next, the next live coverage that I expect will be in New York City, where I live. But I'm always seeing what emerges in the news cycle. And if a hearing gets called of national significance, I like to follow the news wherever it crops up.

[Allison Gill]

Yeah, it happens. So just bam. You'll hear about a hearing that pops up. It's always important to be able to get a go at the last minute. Where you won't be going is Washington, D.C. to hear a case about Biden's auto pen, apparently. Hero. According to the New York Times, breaking news that you and I discussed briefly a moment ago before we jumped on this, this, this interview is that they failed to bring a case against President Biden. They were doing a criminal investigation, Jeanine Pirro, into his use of the auto pen. And I. And they said they couldn't just couldn't put a case together. And I, I wish we had more details about why. Like is it because they sat around and said, well, well he's immune or well, the auto pen's not against the law or like whatever it was. I would love to have been a fly on the wall for that declination.

[Adam Klassfeld]

It's interesting because it not being against the law or any criminal law has never stopped Jeanine Pirro before. I mean, fresh off the humiliation of trying to prosecute Senator Kelly and five of his congressional colleagues for accurately stating the law that you do not have to follow illegal orders, you would think that that humiliation and shame would prevent a stunt like this. But we are learning more and more with the news that Pierrot is absolutely shameless with that. You know, I point out there's been, there was a study that talked about the I forget exactly what year might have been 2016, but they counted up all of the times there was a no bill from a grand jury, no true bill. And in that particular year it was six no bills.

[Allison Gill]

Six. And out of 69,000, almost 70,000 cases.

[Adam Klassfeld]

Right. And that was the number of no bills from, you know, the six criminal defendants. One particular case she racked up the amount of face plants that the Department of Justice did in that entire year and she has gotten quite a few other no bills of, you know, famous famously in the, in the sandwich guy prosecution and other cases. And it, you know, I, I talk about it maybe a little too light heartedly, but there because it's really when we think of she, she was trying to criminally prosecute six elected officials for accurately stating the law. And it doesn't get more poisonous than that. It doesn't get more anti small d Democratic than that. That it will be shameful. Yeah, it doesn't get more anti Democratic than that.

[Allison Gill]

Yet hold my box of wine. It's going to be, it's going to come down to that. Well, thank you so much everybody. Andrew McCabe, former deputy director of the FBI and I are going to speak more in detail about this failed case against President Biden for the auto pen on this Sunday's episode podcast episode of Unjustified. It's free to listen wherever you get your podcasts. Again, if you get a chance to subscribe and support All Rise News, please do. And of course I would love it if you subscribe. It's always free. All the content's free here. On the breakdown at Mueller she wrote dot com. I appreciate you spending some time with me today. Adam. I know we'll catch up again soon.

[Adam Klassfeld]

I'm looking forward to it, Alison. Always.

[Allison Gill]

All right, thanks so much, Adam Klassfeld and thank you so much to John Fugal saying everybody, we will be back in your ears on Monday. Until then, please take care of care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag and them's the Beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to new news, politics and justice. For more information Please visit msw media.com msw media.