Refried Beans | A Little Light Treason (feat. Glenn Kirschner) | Originally 3/16/2022

Summary

The Daily Beans – "Refried Beans | A Little Light Treason"

Date Originally Aired: March 16, 2022
Summary Written: March 14, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this Refried Beans edition, host Allison Gill (AG) and co-host Dana Goldberg revisit a pivotal Daily Beans episode from March 2022. Joined by former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner, the team dissects major legal and political developments connected to the January 6th Capitol attack, Trump’s campaign finance maneuvers, Congressional actions, and the ongoing investigation into far-right extremist groups. The conversation blends deep legal analysis, progressive political insights, and characteristic wit, offering context for how much has changed—and how much remains relevant—years later.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Enrique Tarrio’s Detention & "1776 Returns" Plot

• [03:19] A document titled “1776 Returns” was found in the possession of Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio.
  • The plan outlined steps for surveilling, infiltrating, and storming government buildings on January 6th, 2021.
  • Authorities are uncertain how Tarrio received the document; it may have come from a girlfriend after Trump’s “wild protest” tweet (Dec 19, 2020).
  • The document broke down into five sections: Infiltrate, Execute, Distract, Occupy, Sit-In.
• Significance: This written plan bolstered the DOJ’s conspiracy case—particularly notable since Tarrio himself wasn’t at the Capitol on Jan 6.
• Quote (AG, [05:34]):
  “It recommends recruiting at least 50 people to enter each of the seven government buildings and advises protesters to appear unsuspecting and to not look tactical.”

Paranoia & "Gang Charges"

• Proud Boys deliberately tried not to appear like a gang to avoid certain criminal charges.
  • Quote (AG, [05:35]):
    “They were worried about gang laws. So, anyway ... they’re, you know, getting hit with seditious conspiracy and obstructing an official proceeding, but they were worried about gang laws.”

Implications for Trump & Precedent

• AG speculates that this case sets a judicial precedent for charging individuals at the top (Trump) who weren’t physically present on Jan 6.

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2. Donald Trump’s Campaign Finance Violations

• [08:41] A Democratic super PAC filed a formal complaint with the Federal Election Commission (FEC), alleging Trump used political funds for a 2024 run without declaring candidacy—a possible campaign finance violation.

  • Trump often referenced fundraising tactics as a reason he “can’t” formally announce.
  • Quote (AG, [11:01]):
    “I can’t spend any of my money on running for president unless I say that I am. And if I say that I am, then they’re gonna scrutinize all of my spending.”

• FEC’s Ineffectiveness: The commission is slow and often deadlocked, making enforcement unlikely.

  • Quote (AG, [12:17]):
    “We gotta fucking [fix] the FEC. … It’s totally ineffective.”

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3. Mike Pence’s Script Revisions on January 6

• [13:37] New documents showed Vice President Pence rewrote key portions of his script for certifying the 2020 election.

  • He added and reiterated the question “Are there any objections?”—a break in protocol designed to reinforce legal standards against Trump’s and John Eastman's pressure.
  • Quote (AG, [13:41]):
    “Pence embraced the long dormant rhetoric in part as a rebuttal to Eastman.”

• Eastman’s Legal Theorizing: Eastman urged Pence to violate the Electoral Count Act, referencing small prior process violations to justify a larger one.

  • Quote (AG, [15:50]): “Eastman spent several days before January 6th pushing Pence and Jacob to embrace a fringe legal theory ... When it became clear that Pence would not go along, Eastman fell back on another proposal.”

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4. Senate Advances Permanent Daylight Saving Time

• [16:20] The Senate unanimously passed a bill to make Daylight Saving Time permanent, pending House and presidential approval.

  • The “Sunshine Protection Act” would shift daylight into the afternoon year-round.

  • Lighthearted takes about Congress's inability to agree on voting rights, but consensus about the time change.

  • Quote (AG, [18:18]): “But I would be very glad about this … I lived in Arizona for a long time. It’s fine … I think it’s funny that it passed with unanimous consent. Like, that’s the one thing that 100 senators can agree on … Not voting rights, though, right?”

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Featured Interview: Glenn Kirschner on DOJ Progress and Conspiracy Case

Segment Begins: [21:02]

Kirschner’s Analysis on Trump’s Legal Risk

• DOJ filings directly tie actions (“wild protest” tweet) to Proud Boys mobilization.

• Outlines three key dates in Trump's responsibility:

  1. September 29, 2020: Trump tells Proud Boys to “stand back and stand by.”
  2. December 19, 2020: Issues “wild protest” tweet, activating extremists.
  3. January 6, 2021: Directs crowd to the Capitol to “stop the certification.”
  • Kirschner [24:14]:
    “That was his recruiting call … then on December 19th, with that tweet … he was activating the Proud Boys … On January 6 he deployed and he directed the attack.”

• DOJ is now putting together a prosecutable conspiracy with Trump at the center or as the “hub” of a “hub and spoke conspiracy.”

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DOJ’s Evidence & The Pipe Bomb Angle

• New details about the connection between tactical distractions (e.g., pulling fire alarms) and the pipe bombs left on Jan 6.

• Kirschner speculates: Raids on Proud Boys not yet arrested suggest an effort to tie evidence (possibly the pipe bombs) to the broader plot ([28:00]).

  • Quote (Kirschner, [29:02]):
    “It feels like we're gonna hear that the pipe bombs were perhaps a Proud Boys production as well. We don't know that yet.”

On Flipping Witnesses

• Kirschner predicts increasing cooperation by Proud Boys to avoid stiff sentences.

  • Quote (Kirschner, [28:46]):
    “These boys aren’t quite so proud … I have a feeling at some point the floodgates will open and we're going to see lots of cooperating witnesses.”

Eastman's "Light Treason"

• Jokes about Eastman’s emails acknowledging illegal acts (“a little light treason”) as evidence of corrupt intent and legal peril ([30:12]).
  • Kirschner:
    “Let's just engage in some minor violations, a little light treason.”

Pence, Greg Jacob, and Constitutional Integrity

• Discussion of Pence’s resistance, with Kirschner begrudgingly calling him a “hero” for upholding the certification process ([32:20]).

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Good News Segment

Begins [34:38]:

• Listener submissions: Celebrations, pet stories, mental health support, and reflections on issues such as permanent DST.
• Community appreciation and camaraderie, closing with light-hearted banter and audience engagement.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump's “stand back and stand by”:
  “That was his recruiting call.” — Glenn Kirschner ([24:14])

• Regarding script changes and Eastman’s pressure on Pence:
  “Pence embraced the long dormant rhetoric in part as a rebuttal to Eastman.” — Allison Gill ([13:41])

• On campaign finance dodges:
  “I can't spend any of my money on running for president unless I say that I am. And if I say that I am, then they're gonna scrutinize all of my spending.” — Allison Gill ([11:01])

• On pipe bombs and Proud Boys:
  “It feels like we're gonna hear that the pipe bombs were perhaps a Proud Boys production as well.” — Glenn Kirschner ([29:02])

• On bipartisan priorities:
  “I think it’s funny that it passed with unanimous consent … Not voting rights, though, right?” — Allison Gill ([18:18])

• On Eastman’s emails:
  “Let’s just engage in some minor violations, a little light treason.” — Glenn Kirschner ([30:12])

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Enrique Tarrio & "1776 Returns" Document: [03:19]–[08:12]
• Trump’s Campaign Finance Complaint: [08:41]–[12:17]
• Pence’s Script & Eastman Emails: [13:37]–[15:50]
• Permanent Daylight Saving Time Bill: [16:20]–[19:21]
• Glenn Kirschner Interview (starts): [21:02]
  • Key Trump timeline: [24:13]–[25:47]
  • Pipe bombs & Proud Boys cooperation: [28:00]–[30:12]
  • Eastman “light treason”: [30:12]–[31:00]
  • Pence’s stand: [32:20]–[32:51]
• Good News Segment: [34:38]–[47:00]

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Tone and Style

The episode balances sharp legal examination with progressive advocacy and humor. There’s palpable frustration at institutional failures (FEC, Congressional gridlock), open admiration for tireless watchdog efforts, and a community feel fostered through candid banter and listener interaction.

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This summary captures the episode’s rich blend of major news analysis, legal commentary, political snark, and supportive community feel—giving listeners who missed the show a full, engaging recap of both the substance and the style.

Transcript

[Angela V. Shelton]

Hi, I'm Frances Collier. And I'm Angela V. Shelton. And we're Frangela.

[Frances Collier]

You know what you mean in your life.

[Angela V. Shelton]

The Final Word podcast. Yes, you do.

[Frances Collier]

That's right.

[Angela V. Shelton]

It is the final word on all things political and pop cultural, where we make real news, real funny, where we inspire you so you can resist. Subscribe and get a new episode of the Final Word podcast each week. It's the news we think you need to hear.

[Frances Collier]

That's right. We think you need to hear it.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Okay. Yeah. It's what we say. So.

[Frances Collier]

That's right.

[Angela V. Shelton]

And because all we do is give. Every Thursday, you can listen to our hysterical podcast, Idiot of the Week. We round up the stupid. Because you know what? Somebody has to. Okay? All we do is give. MSW Media. Hey, everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago, so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro. Refried beans. I like refried beans.

[Glenn Kirschner]

That's why I want to try fried

[Martin Sheen]

beans, because maybe they're just as good

[Angela V. Shelton]

and we're wasting time. Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Wednesday, March 16, 2022. Today, a judge orders Proud Boys leader Enrique Tarrio detained pending trial. The Senate passes a bill to stay on daylight saving time by unanimous consent. A new document emerges about the plan to attack the Capitol that was mentioned in the Tarrio indictment. A second one six, Mike Pence script change is revealed through committee testimony. A Dem super PAC is filing a complaint with the FEC alleging Trump has violated federal campaign finance law by spending political funds on a 2024 run without formally declaring himself a candidate. And that is just about all the news we could squeeze in today. I'm Alison Gill.

[Frances Collier]

And I'm Dana Goldberg.

[Angela V. Shelton]

There is actually another story breaking right now that we're going to have to cover.

[Frances Collier]

Of course there is. There's always a story breaking right while we're recording and we're gonna have to

[Angela V. Shelton]

cover that tomorrow, but basically the January 6th panel has obtained that, you know that documentary crew that was following Enrique Tarrio around?

[Frances Collier]

Yes.

[Angela V. Shelton]

The January 6th committee has it and so does the Department of Justice because they mentioned it in their pre trial detention motion. And speaking of the pretrial detention motion, I'm going to be talking about that and some Easter eggs and some other stuff with Glenn Kirshner later in the show. You don't want to miss that. He is the host of Justice Matters. And dude, former federal prosecutor, worked at the D.C. u.S. Attorney's office for like two decades working on murders and stuff. Like, amazing.

[Frances Collier]

He's a badass.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, prolific dude. And he's got a lot of fans. I know that, that also listen to this program. So that's very cool. We have a lot of news to get to, as you could tell from the intro. Not Dana, not close to our record, but still, still quite a bit.

[Frances Collier]

We just want to, you know, we want to have some room for growth. You do.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Always room for growth. Always room for more news. So let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up, a document found by federal prosecutors in the possession of Enrique Tarrio contained a detailed plan to surveil and storm government buildings around the Capitol on January 6th last year. That's according to people familiar with the document. The document titled 1776 Returns, which makes me wonder if Lauren Boebert read it because she tweeted 1776 when the attack was happening. This 1776 returns document was cited by prosecutors last week in that far right leader charge of Enrique Tarrio, the indictment. He's the former head of the Proud Boys extremist group and he was indicted with conspiracy. I imagine. Superseding indictments to come. The indictment of Mr. Tario described the document in general terms, but the people familiar with it added substantial new details about the scope and complexity of the plan. It sat out for directing an effort to occupy six House and Senate office buildings and the Supreme Court on January 6th. Many questions about how the document came to be, including who wrote it and how it was made and how it got to Enrique, are still out there. We still haven't answered those questions. And it got to him, by the way, on December 30, 11 days after Trump tweeted about the wild protest. And that was as Donald was engaged in a series of overlapping schemes to keep himself in power, the people familiar with the document said. Other evidence the government has gathered suggests it may have been provided to Enrique Tarrio by one of his girlfriends at the time. The document could help explain why prosecutors chose to charge Mr. Tarrio with conspiracy even though he was not at the Capitol during the attack. And it appears to be the first time that prosecutors have sought to use evidence of a specific written plan to storm and occupy government buildings in their wide ranging investigation into the attack. And of course, the stuff that led up to it. And it's broken into five parts. Infiltrate, execution, distract, occupy and sit in it's a nine page document. It recommends recruiting at least 50 people to enter each of the seven government buildings and advises protesters to appear unsuspecting and to not look tactical.

[Frances Collier]

Whoops.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I think it's because they didn't want to be charged with gang charges. You remember, Dana, when in some of the documents and testimony, when they were like, look, we can't wear colors because they're going to charge us with gang crimes. So that was why they were trying to avoid all that little. They know they're, you know, getting hit with seditious conspiracy and obstructing an official proceeding, but they were worried about gang laws. So, anyway, after ensuring the crowds at the buildings are full and ready to go, the document says that leads and seconds should enter and open doors for others to go in, quote, causing trouble to distract security guards if necessary. Should the crowd fail to gain entrance to the buildings quickly, the document suggests pulling fire alarms at nearby stores, hotels, and museums to further distract the guards or police. And that makes me think of those pipe bombs. Absolutely, Dana, that were placed at the DNC and near the rnc. Were those placed by these militias? And has any cooperator or, you know, flipper told the feds about who placed them? Does it have to do with the FBI raids on Bertino and Stewart? Those other Proud Boys leaders that have yet to be arrested, that were raided while Tarria was being arrested? They seem to be connected, Right, because you wouldn't want to arrest Tarrio and then wait to raid the other two guys, right? Unless they were all doing something together. Now, Tarrio had a detention hearing today, Tuesday, and he's been ordered to remain in custody pending trial.

[Frances Collier]

Good.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yes, very good. Department of justice argued for pretrial detention because he destroyed government property worth over a thousand bucks, which means he's a risk to the public and he posed a risk to other witnesses. He could be expected to destroy evidence or perhaps obstruct justice. And he was a flight risk. And I'm getting a lot of questions, Dana, about whether he's a mole, because, you know, he's been known to be a snitch FBI informant. Not this time, I don't think. And I'm 101.2% sure. So I'm just barely 100% sure.

[Frances Collier]

Just barely over.

[Angela V. Shelton]

He was an informant like a decade ago, but he's in actual fucking trouble this time. Now, he could flip and cooperate, either fully or partially, but he's not a mole, you guys. The FBI would not allow a person to endanger the lives of 140 police officers and help carry out a coup just to let him keep criming, you know, that's. That's when the. When the danger, like, outweighs. When the risk outweighs the benefit of having an IC continue to do crimes. You don't allow that to happen. They're like, well, let's just see if he kills six more people. That's not. That's not how being an informant works.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah, thank goodness that's not how being an informant works. I can't. I so glued to this story, though, because I want to know what happens with this guy, because if he gets charged for all this, is guilty and wasn't actually at the Capitol, that sets precedent for another person who got this going and was not at the Capitol because he's got bone spurs. All right. A Democratic super PAC says it's filing a formal.

[Angela V. Shelton]

That's going to be his defense. So, no, I have bones.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I can't do ooze.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah. When I said I was gonna walk down there with you, I mean, my

[Angela V. Shelton]

doctor says I'm unable to COO because my bones spurs.

[Frances Collier]

Oh, God, I'm a piece of shit. A Democratic super PAC said it is filing a formal complaint with the Federal Elections Commission on Monday, accusing the former guy of violating campaign finance law by spending political funds on a 2024 presidential bid without formally declaring himself a cand. God forbid. The complaint uses Mr. Trump's own words about a 2024 run. It's a quote, I know what I'm going to do. We're not supposed to be talking about it yet. From the standpoint of finance, campaign finance laws, that was more of like a Bernie Sanders meets Donald Trump impression. It's fine. Everything's fine. He said that in the fall. Now, to accuse him of improperly using his existing political committees to advance a presidential run, that's what he's in trouble for. Federal rules require those who raise or spend more than 5,000 in support of a presidential campaign to register with the Federal elections commission. And Mr. Trump has repeatedly teased that he plans to run for a president again, saying at the Conservative Political Action Conference last month, quote, we did it twice. We'll do it again. But we did it twice.

[Angela V. Shelton]

We lost once. We actually lost twice. But we really lost once. But we're gonna do it again.

[Frances Collier]

You know what? Do that part again. That lost part. Let's do that. But he formally filed for reelection the day of inauguration in 2017. Mr. Trump has not done that so far in 2024. Now, such a filing would set off restrictions on how he could raise and spend campaign money, including his existing war chest. So that's probably why he hasn't, because he's going to pocket as much of this shit as he can. Yeah. Now, Donald told the Fox News host Sean Hannity in July of 2021 that he had made up his mind about out of the White House bid. Now, a month later, he said on the Fox News again on the Fox News, sort of like the Facebook, he said on Fox News again that it was, quote, unbelievably stupid campaign finance laws that prevented him from directly stating his intentions. Let me put it this way. I think you'll be happy, and I think that a lot of your friends will be very happy, but I'm not actually allowed to answer it. That's what Donald said. It makes it very difficult if I do. Meaning I can't steal money if I say this out loud. Yeah.

[Angela V. Shelton]

And I can't spend any of my money on running for president unless I say that I am. And if I say that I am, then they're gonna scrutinize all of my spending.

[Frances Collier]

And I'm already under enough scrutiny, so I don't want to raise any more flags. Even though that's what he does. He just raises them and raises them. Now, nothing legally bars Donald from declaring he's running for president, but he would be subject to additional fundraising limits and disclosure requirements if he did that. So once a politician has decided to run for federal office and began fundraising, the person's supposed to file paperwork declaring the candidacy. Now, there's also an interim step for those who are testing the waters of Iran. So obviously he hasn't done that either. The complaint would appear unlikely to generate any crackdown by the Federal Elections Commission, which is equally divided between commissioners aligned with the Democratic and Republican parties and often deadlocks on contentious matters. Now, the watchdog agency's investigations process is also notoriously slow. So a complaint to the commission related to the pre candidacy activities of Jeb Bush, who announced his run for president, 2015 AG, that was still in court. As recently as December 2021. It was still in court.

[Angela V. Shelton]

We gotta fucking the snail snails, pace. We gotta reform the fuck out of the fec. That should be. Damn. Yeah, it's got no teeth. It's totally ineffective. I love some of the people on, like Broussard and Weintraub who are on the fec, but they can't do anything. They can never do anything.

[Frances Collier]

No.

[Angela V. Shelton]

And as it turns out, Dana, Mike Pence made more than one major change to the vice presidential script for presiding over the January 6 counting of electoral votes. This is brand new stuff. Pence's decision to craft and employ his own unprecedented language as he presided over the final step of the 2020 election reflected his resistan to a pressure campaign by then President Trump to subvert the process. Pence's rewrite has since drawn the attention of congressional investigators. He also made a second, subtler, but no less significant change to the script on January 6, 2021. That's according to the newly released documents and testimony that we've been reviewing. The previously unreported adjustment, further illustrating his pushback to the Trump led gambit involved a simple question that he asked each time a state's electoral vote results were introduced. He asked, are there any objections? No vice president has added those. Worst since Al Gore presided over his own defeat in 2001. Notably, Gore was the only one to have done it since at least 1937.

[Frances Collier]

Wow.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Pence embraced the long dormant rhetoric in part as a rebuttal to Eastman. John Eastman, yeah. Because Pence's counsel, Greg Jacob, told congressional investigators, hey, you know what John Eastman tried to do? He tried to pressure my guy, Vice President Pence, into violating the Electoral Count Act. According to Jacob's testimony, as well as contemporaneous emails released by the January 6th Committee, I call it the smoking gun email. Eastman spent several days before January 6th pushing Pence and Jacob to embrace a fringe legal theory. Pence could simply refuse to count some of Biden's electors. When it became clear that Pence would not go along, Eastman fell back on another proposal. Pence, he said, should declare the election in dispute and recess the session for 10 days, giving Republican led state legislatures a chance to appoint new electors. Senator ted Cruz assembled 10 GOP colleagues to embrace that similar push, but Jacob pushed back. That's Pence's top lawyer, right? He argued that sending the election to the states to select the new electors would violate the Electoral Count Act's provisions, giving federal lawmakers the chance to decide which ones count. In no previous election, he noted, even in ones with some disputed states, had Congress sought the input of state legislators to resolve disputes. The Electoral Count Act, Jacob noted, says the Vice President, quote, shall call for objections after each state. And Pence made the decision to explicitly add those statements to articulate his disagreement with Eastman's theory. And I still believe Pence knew that Eastman was trying to discredit the Electoral Count act by poking holes in it so that he could convince Pence to violate it just a little bit more and delay it for those 10 days. Remember I did that smoking gun email where Eastman said to Greg Jacob, hey, we've already violated the Electoral Count Act. When Pence let debate go on for more than two hours for Arizona, and then Pence didn't call the question. After the debate, Member Vice President Pence violated. Violated the Electoral Account Act. So obviously Pence doesn't care about the Electoral Account act, so Pence should violate it just one more little time by delaying the account for two weeks.

[Frances Collier]

I mean, if you were already going to do something illegal, let's just do another one. You're already in trouble. Come on.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, and I think that that had to do with why they debated for so long and why they were delaying not just to let the rioters overrun the Capitol, but to. To force Pence to violate the Electoral Count act so that they could either threaten that. Threaten him with that. Hey, you violated the law, bro. You better do what we say.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah.

[Angela V. Shelton]

And I'm wondering if any of those 111 emails being reviewed in camera right now have any kind of threat like that in them. We'll see.

[Frances Collier]

We will. We will see. Now, this story surprised me when I heard it, but the Senate on Tuesday, I was like, what? Okay. The Senate on Tuesday approved a proposal to make Daylight Saving Time permanent, which, if passed in the House and signed by President Biden, would mean Americans would never have to set their clocks back an hour and lose an hour of afternoon daylight in the fall and winter. Although it does mean it would be dark still at 8:30 in the morning in the middle of December.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Fine with me. It's totally fine.

[Frances Collier]

I know. Now, if enacted into law, it would also mean that early risers, like I said, they lose an hour of daylight in the mornings of November, December, January and February, which I actually enjoy now in New. I know, it's weird. I'm a morning person, I'm a comic. I'm an anomaly.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Same.

[Frances Collier]

Yep. In New York, for example, under the current law, the sun will rise at 7:15 on December 21st. Now that's the shortest day of the year. So if the Sunshine Protection act becomes law, the Sunshine Protection act, they won't do anything for global warming and climate change, but they're protecting the sun. This is what they're calling it. I can't. The Sunshine Protection act becomes law. New Yorkers won't see the sunrise, like I said, until 8:15 that day. So it's a very long night for New York. But they don't sleep anyway. It's okay. It's a city that never sleeps. Now, on the other hand, right? On the other hand, instead of the sun setting at 4:31pm late December, which is miserable for everyone, it would set at 5:30pm giving people a little more daylight to enjoy the freezing cold afternoons. In New York, Senator Whitehouse, who I love, the lead Democratic sponsor of the legislation, he said its passage would be welcomed by the people in his home state, Rhode Island. Now, if it passes the House and Biden signs it, it would not take effect for a year. And giving the transportation and airline industry some time to make the adjustment, as well as Apple and anything else that changes automatically, they're going to have to refigure all that shit. So we'll see what happens.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I know we're going to have brand new Y2K companies. Remember Y2K? All these companies came out and they're like, you better pay us to fix your stuff. It was total scam. But we're going to have a bunch of fraud guarantee sunshine companies coming out of the woodwork to help you prep for, you know, the big changeover. But I would be very glad about this, you know, and I can tell you, I promise everybody, I lived in Arizona for a long time. It's fine. It's really not that big of a deal. They don't do it. I don't think anyone should. But, yeah, I think it's funny that it passed with unanimous consent. Like, that's the One thing that 100 senators can agree on is like. Yeah, that thing. Not voting rights, though, right?

[Frances Collier]

Of course. No. But let's make sure that we fix the Sunshine Act. Protect the sun.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Oh, my God, I love the Protect the Sunshine Act. Protect it, but only in the afternoons.

[Frances Collier]

Okay? That's right. And not from burning up the planet so that we don't have to. Just so we don't have to get up so early in the summer.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Where's the Protect the Earth Act? Oh, my God, that's volume two, I hope. Okay, now let's focus on Protect the Earth. All right, everybody, we're gonna be right back with Glenn Kirschner. And then after that, we're gonna have the good news. So stick around. You don't want to miss it after these messages. We'll be right back.

[Martin Sheen]

You can always count on Sunday to be the best day of the week. You can sleep in, go off your diet, spend the day in your pajamas and go on, have that second croissant. You know what else you can count on every Sunday, the Martin Sheen Podcast. Join me, your host, Martin Sheen for beautifully crafted 20 minute programs filled with never before heard stories of my life along with personal reflections and poetry that inspires. And season two begins Sunday, February 1st. The Martin Sheen Podcast is the perfect Sunday relaxing companion, a chance to put your feet up, take a deep breath and enjoy some stress free listening time from the comfort of your favorite easy chair and that second croissant that stays between us. There's no judgment here, so make my podcast your weekly moment of calm as we explore faith, hope, love and what it means to be human. And rest assured, this journey is ever unfolding as I invite you to see what's next with me, Martin Sheen. So let's keep Sunday the best day of the week together and thank you for listening.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Hey everybody, welcome back. Today I'm joined by the host of Justice Matters and former federal prosecutor Glenn Kirschner. Glenn, hello.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Hey. Gee, how you doing?

[Angela V. Shelton]

I'm doing well. I'm doing well. I wanted to have you on today because we have a lot of breaking news going on behind the scenes. And when I say behind the scenes, I mean behind the wall of the very important Ukraine coverage that is, you know, that we're seeing on in the media now. But a couple of questions for you about some things that have popped up here in the last couple of days. We now have the first statement in a federal filing tying Trump to the conspiracy to obstruct the electoral vote count. You and I have been talking about this for a very long time, right? The pyramid, getting the overt criminals, the foot soldiers on 1512, obstructing an official proceeding and working up the ladder to establish the plot to obstruct the count and that it includes Donald and of course, asking several boots on the ground guys to sign affidavits saying they wanted to stop the count on Trump's orders and of course securing guilty pleas that they can that they intended to stop or delay the count. And now we have Department of Justice connecting Donald's tweet about the quote unquote wild protest directly to the actions of the proud boys, namely Enrique Tarrio in this latest court filing, you know, to detain him pretrial. But you say that it goes back even further than the December 19th Trump wild tweet to something else Donald said. Can you talk about that?

[Frances Collier]

Yeah.

[Glenn Kirschner]

And you know, ag, sometimes I feel I'm a little slow on the uptake, but it continues to come into full focus. And I kind of see this in part as an old army prosecutor. I see it in part as a federal prosecutor, but I think now, and you were the first one that caught, as far as I noticed, caught this little nugget in the Enrique Tarrio detention motion whereby the prosecutors said, no, Judge, Enrique Tarrio should not be released back to the community. This is not catch and release. He needs to be jailed pending trial because he's both a danger and a flight risk. So. And you noted that they said that in, I think, the opening salvo when they were relating some of the facts that the Proud Boys mobilized when Donald Trump sent out that tweet on December 19th, come to DC on January 6th, will be wild. Interestingly, they didn't name Donald Trump, but I think we all know who sent that tweet. So you picked that up. I retweeted it. I didn't even pretend it was original thinking on my part. And then I think there are three dates that basically provide almost everything you need to see that Donald Trump is criminally culpable for the conspiracy. So if we go back to September 29th of 2020, that's when he basically told the Proud Boys, stand back and stand by. That was his recruiting call.

[Frances Collier]

Right.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Then on December 19th, with that tweet, come to DC on January 6th will be wild. He was activating the Proud Boys after telling them to stand by. On January 6, he deployed and he directed the attack. He directed the Proud Boys and others. And when you look at the language he used on January 6, he said, Go to the Capitol and stop the certification of Joe Biden's win. Helpfully, from this old prosecutor's perspective, he called Joe Biden's win the steal. We know it wasn't a steal. We can prove with Donald Trump's own executive branch officials that it wasn't a steal. And they told him so. So what does that do? That provides direct evidence of his corrupt intent in a way that I rarely had when I was prosecuting cases. So I think those three dates, he told his troops to stand by, he activated them, and then he directed them to attack. This is a conspiracy indictment that drafts itself, and Donald Trump is either the leader of the conspiracy or the hub of a hub and spoke conspiracy. But, you know, I am more convinced than ever that the Department of Justice is building precisely to what you and I have been discussing for so long.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah. And one of those officials, executive branch officials, was obviously Bill Barr. I mean, there were so many. But then we also have those Eastman emails, right? 111 of which we know what one of them says. Because Greg Jacob, Vice President Mike Pence's general counsel, gave that to the committee and testified about it, where Eastman said, hey, look, you broke the law. We broke the law already. Debate went on for more than two hours. The Vice President already broke the law, so why not just break it one more little time and delay this 10 more days? And then we also have testimony from Greg Jacobs saying that Eastman told Pence and presumably Trump, but we don't know, hey, no Supreme Court justice is going to buy this. So, you know, we need to do this a different way. And that sort of goes to corrupt intent, because that shows that they all knew, at least in the Pence sphere, that Donald lost the election and that they were violating the law. But something else I wanted to ask you about. There was a document, according to the New York Times, that was found on Tarrio's Enrique Tarrio. And that document instructed militia members. There was five things, but one of the instructions was to cause trouble at nearby buildings, to distract law enforcement, like by pulling a fire alarm, for example. But that sent off alarm bells in my head and made me think of those planted pipe bombs. And I just think it's very interesting that Jim Jordan sent a letter to Christopher Wray on March 9 saying, hey, we have a whistleblower who says that the FBI isn't giving any information to my committee. They're only giving information to the January 6th committee. We demand to know what's happening with the pipe bombs. And then the day before that is when Enrique Tarrio was arrested and warrants were served and the FBI raided two other Proud Boys named Stewart and Bertino, who haven't been charged yet. Now, why would you raid someone's house as opposed to simply arresting them like they did with Tario or so many of the other Proud Boys or Oath Keepers? I can't help but think that the pipe bomb is somehow wrapped up in this.

[Glenn Kirschner]

You raid somebody's house when you have probable cause to believe there's evidence of crime contained therein, and a judge has issued a search warrant. So that's why you would raid a house and not just arrest somebody that you have an arrest warrant for. I have a feeling, given the more we learn about the really concerted effort, the conspiratorial effort of the Proud Boys to disrupt in all ways large and small. It feels like we're gonna hear that the pipe bombs were perhaps a Proud Boys production as well. We don't know that yet. But the other thing is, these boys aren't quite so proud. And I have A feeling we're gonna have any number of proud boys flipping. We've heard some reports early on that in days past, Enrique Tarrio would try to save himself by providing information to the feds. Once you go down that road, you're likely to go down that road again. And it's not just Tarrio, I'm sure it's any of these other proud boys who I really think are the weakest of weak of weak people among us. These people are going to flip. These people are going to try to save themselves. They're going to sell out their fellow proud boy members. And I have a feeling at some point the floodgates will open and we're going to see lots of cooperating witnesses.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, and I remember Enrique Tarrio even saying to a documentary film crew, by the way, which is just bananas, that they had so many documentary film crews documenting their crimes on January 6, said, hey, Stewart Rhodes and I, because they had just met in that parking garage briefly. And Tarya said, hey, we don't get along. He and I don't get along, but we get along for this. So, you know, they don't get along. That tells me a lot. And we know that a guy named Joshua James has already pled guilty to seditious conspiracy. That's a heavy thing to plead guilty to. And is cooperating. And, you know, if somebody knows who planted those pipe bombs amidst these cooperators, and I think we will find out who.

[Glenn Kirschner]

I agree. We're gonna find out who. And I don't wanna circle back to Eastman, but it really was just so sweet to see him put in writing that let's just engage in some minor violations, a little light treason. You know, he is so ready to flip himself because he's gonna get got. I mean, I think the moment that I realized he was done was when he claimed his own memo was, quote, crazy. If anybody believes I meant what I said in that memo. I mean, talk about consciousness of guilt. So, you know, I do think, you know, we've been waiting a long time for the floodgates to open and for consequential indictments to start dropping. I have a feeling we are closer now than we've ever been.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, I think Tarrio is definitely consequential, more consequential even than I think Stewart Rhodes. I think he probably will eventually be charged with seditious conspiracy. And one last quick thing. It feels like Eastman was trying to punch holes in the Electoral Count act to discredit it so that he could push Pence to violate it A little bit further. And we saw that in that email where he said, hey, you know, you called for debate after, you know, without calling the question, after debate ended. So you broke it, you violated it. We also violated it by having debate go for more than two hours on Arizona. I wonder why. Debate went for more than two hours on Arizona, by the way. But it seemed like a plan. And now, you know, we just recently learned that Pence actually changed his language a second time when he was delivering his, you know, speech on the floor to count the votes. The first was, you know, he changed up that first part of the speech, but then he added, and every state can object after, you know, when. When they're brought up. And he did that to push back on Eastman. And Greg Jacob, you know, testified to that. It just seemed like Eastman was trying to blow holes, you know, blow open the Electoral Count act to make it seem not as sacrosanct as it was, so that he could. He could either either push Pence to violate it or threaten Pence, say, hey, you broke the law, you violated the law, do what we say, or, you know, we're going to. We're going to tell on you.

[Glenn Kirschner]

And it feels wrong to even entertain the thought that Pence is something of a hero. That just feels dirty to me. And yet this thing could have ended up a whole different way had Pence not stayed strong and stayed faithful to the Constitution. So with all of the quibbles I have with that man, particularly on policy, you have to give it to him that he stood up to this barrage and he didn't necessarily have to.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, I've been handing it to Greg Jacob. That's who I'm. Because I don't know him as well as I know Pence. So I have no problem calling him a little bit more of a hero. But I appreciate your time today, everybody. Check out Justice Matters. I know you've got a video out about this call to action by Donald Trump, how it involves him in this conspiracy, how you do not need a tacit agreement in order to be a co conspirator, and all the evidence that could lead to his indictment. Now, it seems to me they are investigating. It seems clear to me they are investigating him at this point, which is all I've been asking for. We'll see if they are able to put the evidence together to indict him.

[Glenn Kirschner]

Yeah, things are moving in the right direction and we've waited a very long time and we may have to wait a little longer, but I think we're going to get there.

[Angela V. Shelton]

All right, thanks so much. I appreciate your time today, everybody. Glenn Kirschner.

[Frances Collier]

Stick around.

[Angela V. Shelton]

We'll be right back with the good news. History is messy. It's weird, wild, and anything but boring. Rainy Day Rabbit Holes is a history podcast about unhinged stories that make you stop and ask, wait, is this real life? From crazy disasters and tasty scandals to enlightening and surprising heartwarming tales, we explore the moments where people behave badly and sometimes beautifully. We've got got naughty politicians, cultural chaos, and a deep love for the Pacific Northwest, including Bigfoot. It's thoughtful, irreverent, occasionally serious, and always entertaining. Let's fall down the rabbit hole. MSW Media. Hey, everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good?

[Glenn Kirschner]

Everyone. Then, good news, everyone.

[Frances Collier]

Good news.

[Angela V. Shelton]

All right.

[Frances Collier]

Hope day. Good news.

[Angela V. Shelton]

What's up? Hello.

[Frances Collier]

Let's do it. I like this. I like this day.

[Angela V. Shelton]

If you have any good news that you want to send us or corrections or confessions or just send photos of your pets or your happy place or your garden or anything you're crafting or making, or you want to tell us about your small business and what you're doing, you can send it all into us, including wooby stories, which I love, and photos from Halloween. Easter's coming up. We get the Easter bunny. You know, like, kids, like, screaming, like, scared of the Easter bunny. I love those photos. I'm probably sadistic, but send. I have. I have some of me. I'll be happy to share on Twitter and you could send those [e-mail] and click on Contact. Although, Dana, I do like happy children better.

[Frances Collier]

Oh, my God. I do, too.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, and you guys have some of the cutest kids when you. Especially when you send us those baby pictures. Oh, my God.

[Frances Collier]

Oh, my God. I just saw this first picture in this. Oh, my God.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Okay, that kid's guilty of something. All right. This is first up from Brit. Pronouns she and her. Good morning, folks. You guys are awesome. I love listening to you every morning. A couple things. First, some good news to share, albeit a couple months late. I made partner and the law firm I work.

[Frances Collier]

Congratulations, dude.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Brit, that's big. Second, thank you Both, but especially DG, for the apology regarding Brittney Griner. I remember hearing DG's comment and thinking that was an odd comment and very uncharacteristic of dg. I really appreciate your correction and apology. You guys have ovaries to admit when something was not done properly and move on. I wish more people would Just admit when they're wrong. No defensiveness, no explanation, and just move on. You give me hope daily for a better world, especially with how vocal you are about supporting the queer community. The picture is of our younger son who loves to dress up dressed up as the elf on the shelf. Creepy smile.

[Frances Collier]

It's the creepy smile and eyes that get me on this. This is brilliant. It is.

[Angela V. Shelton]

He's totally watching you, Britt.

[Frances Collier]

Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. And yeah, I mean, my girlfriend doesn't always appreciate when I say I'm wrong. I'm glad someone out there does.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I love these yellow Shaker cabinets too. And look at, there's the quality mug in the background. Very nice, very nice.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah. Represent, represent. These are my peeps. Oh, it's me. That's what you're waiting for. All right, this next one's from Anonymous. No pronouns given on this. Dear ag, thank you for all your hard hitting and continued coverage of the Trump Russia scandal. My opposition to your preference for permanent daylight saving time is not a trolling, but a rather concern that you have a supremely anti science view that is unfortunately espoused by scientifically naive Congress critters. There is a broad agreement that the quote, change between regular and savings time is the main source of the problem, ranging from drunk driving incidents, heart attacks, even harsher sentences imposed by judges. So I agree that it should land one way or the other. We should minimize the number of changes. However, a permanent daylight savings time removes the very sense of what it means to be noon and midnight by position of the sun. Legislation against this is about as sane as a law that says PI is exactly 3. Your actual grape is not with DTS but rather with quote, standard work hours. Now wouldn't it be sounder to keep scientific time a ticking clock and standard as it is, and get corporations to adjust their working hours? This is a complicated issue, not only beyond the 9 to 5, but also further into how school children typically deal with their own separate set of hours based on their parents work schedule settings. The current daylight saving time situation for myself is causing scheduling problems with other countries. We do not turn on DST at the same time as other countries. This is largely due to the Energy Policy act of 2005, in which George W. Bush's solution to climate change was to, quote, study it by unilaterally moving the change date by a few weeks, as if that were a real solution. So there you go now. Peace be to Ukraine, peace be to all. Thank you for shining light on the bleak situation and May we each, as you have, do our parts to support democracy.

[Angela V. Shelton]

You know what Anonymous, I am 100% with you on that. And the reason that I want to stick with DST is because everyone else would have to change. The schools would have to change their timing, work would have to change their time, every business, everything else and try to get that to go. I mean, I assume if you just put everything on standard that people would change their hours. But I personally have think that school should start later, work should start later, especially school because there are tons of scientific studies out there showing that like high school kids, kids don't like to get up real early and they aren't very productive in the morning hours. I remember when I was a teenager trying to get me out of bed was like a joke in the morning. I just wanted to sleep.

[Frances Collier]

Oh my God. I was up at 5:30 because I had zero hour band practice. We are two definitely very different people.

[Angela V. Shelton]

If I had to, I suppose I would. Marching band.

[Frances Collier]

Yes. I was section leader of the drum line. My little. My little. Yeah, my little female body was center snare telling all these senior boys what to do. They did not appreciate it until they were like, oh, she knows what she's doing.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Oh, she's actually good. She's actually good. But that happened to me in comedy as well.

[Frances Collier]

Right, I know, that's fine.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Actually, somebody one time asked me, was like, does it suck to be a woman in comedy? And I'm like, actually no, it's kind of cool because the bar is real low.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah.

[Angela V. Shelton]

So like I only have to be because. And it's not because women aren't funny, it's because people think that women aren't funny incorrectly, by the way.

[Frances Collier]

Yes.

[Angela V. Shelton]

It's just, it's fake news. It's disinformation. And so, you know, I said look, if I'm as funny as the guys, I seem funnier because I'm a woman. So it actually makes my job kind of easier.

[Frances Collier]

There you go.

[Angela V. Shelton]

For that project, people underestimating you. Everybody knows if somebody underestimates you, it's a lot easier to wow them. So that's cool. I didn't. I had no idea you were doing that. That's right.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah. We won Drumline in every competition my entire high school career. So there you have it. Oh, nice.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Nice. I don't think I won anything. I was a really good golfer anyway.

[Frances Collier]

Nice. Okay.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Catholic school, you know.

[Frances Collier]

Yeah.

[Angela V. Shelton]

What you do. Next up from Susan Pronoun. She and her hi beans queens and co. I just wanted to thank you for your daily encouragement to seek help from a counselor, which I finally did. And I can already see the positive results of talking to my amazing therapist. I have reconnected with my love of reading by joining a virtual book club. Have been reading books I stacked up but neglected and started a thriving indoor garden of lettuce, spinach, basil, and mini tomato plants. My counselor also encouraged me to talk about things I used to enjoy doing. And I ordered an embroidery kit that I'm about to start. That's so cool. And by the way, buying books, like there's three different kinds, right? There's three hobbies here with book reading. It's buying books and then stacking books up that you have yet to read and then actually reading them. Those are three different things. Those are three different things. My to be read pile is gigantic, by the way. Oh, look at these. She goes on to say, thank you for the encouragement you gave me when handling hard times and for helping me see that asking for help is okay. Love you all. For pet pics, I'm including a photo of three of our rescued kitties, each sleeping on their favorite blanket that is covering the leather couch. It's afternoon nap time and sometimes they lure me in.

[Frances Collier]

Oh, look.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, I would want to go right there and nap with those kitties.

[Frances Collier]

Totally. Oh my God. So sweet. All right. This is from Sean. Pronouns, he and him. Dear Ag, dg, Amy and the Beans crew as Gen X er who lived through the end of the Cold War and the fall of the Berlin Wall. The current situation in Ukraine has shaken my found. On March 2, I donated to the funds set up by the national bank of Ukraine. Links are below. And bought $30 worth of girl Scout cookies. What better thing to stress eat while worrying about the fate of the world? And yes, my two boxes of Thin Mints are in the freezer. Thank you for all you do. Boom. Thank you, Sean.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Awesome. By the way, I finally looked. I've been eating Girl Scout cookies, particularly thin mints, for at least 40 years and I finally looked to see how many calories. I was very pleasantly surprised to learn, Dana, there are fewer than 700 calories in an entire sleeve.

[Frances Collier]

Oh my goodness.

[Angela V. Shelton]

You want to take the next one too?

[Frances Collier]

Oh, sure. This is from Anonymous Pronuncia and him. This is my 16 year old boy, Bosco, who has just had to be put down because of kidney failure.

[Angela V. Shelton]

No.

[Frances Collier]

Oh. He's literally been my best friend over a decade. During my recovery, he was by my side every moment. His entire body was wrapped around snuggling my head at times, it's so hard to lose a good friend. Much harder to decide the time and place to lose them. I really didn't think I'd be as sad as I am. Losing someone you care about is a big bummer for sure. And Bosco is a sweet baby. Look at that.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Look at the arms. Look at the little toe beans in the legs. Oh, I'm so sorry for your loss. Anonymous what a sweetheart. Yeah, my boy's getting old too, and I'm trying to figure out how to prep myself, you know?

[Frances Collier]

Yeah, like.

[Angela V. Shelton]

But I will say this, and thanks to our patrons and the Leguminati, I was able to raise enough money to get his cancerous tumor removed. In May, it'll be three years cancer free. And so you all helped my buddy stick around for three years that I wouldn't have had before. So what I'm trying to do is to look at it that way. I've had three years that I probably wouldn't have had before if it weren't for this incredible community. So thank you all so much. Next up, from Heidi Pronoun. She and her windowsill kitties. Our cat Blue was proof that what happens in the barn doesn't always stay in the barn. He moved to the city and quickly trained us that although he has needs to roam, he would always return at night. When we moved from one neighborhood to another, we were surprised by how many of our neighbors came to ask, is that Gray cat yours? That's how we found out that he was a serial killer cheater. In our new home, he would walk down to the middle school in the afternoon just to greet the kids. The pinnacle of his cheating was when my daughter spotted him on the windowsill down the block. We didn't know the people who lived there, but he sure did.

[Frances Collier]

My goodness.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Sadly, Blue crossed the rainbow bridge at the beginning of COVID I'm sure he's brightening up the farm with all his antics. Yes, he's haunting all sorts of windowsills these days. We missed that giant fluffy brat. Photos show Blue chilling with his chub chubs. Aw, look at Blue.

[Frances Collier]

So sweet.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I always wonder about that. I have the Bruce Willis sometimes gets out not because I want him to, but because he's a dick. And I just have this picture. I have images in my head of like, him in someone else's house getting fed and getting pets and, you know, love and stuff. And I get jealous. Like, it probably doesn't happen, but it does. It happens in the world of Cats.

[Frances Collier]

So sweet, as we now know.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Thank you so much for all these submissions, if you have any submissions, and I'll make that clarification on daylight saving time, because I'm with you. If we could all just change our business hours and work hours and everything that we have to do during the day standard time would probably be better.

[Frances Collier]

Totally.

[Angela V. Shelton]

So I'll make sure to make that clarification when I'm arguing.

[Martin Sheen]

And.

[Angela V. Shelton]

And when I mentioned trolls, by the way, on Twitter, which I did, I didn't mean like, actual people who disagree with me. I mean, like, there's bots out there who are against this bill. Like, you know, like John Miller, a bunch of numbers at the end. Zero followers. Just created an account out to take down big sunlight, I guess. I don't know. I don't know. It's just. It was just a. I thought it was a weird thing to have to have bots over, but there are. They're out there. That's what I was referring to. If that's. If that's what you were referring to when you were talking to me. Any, Dana? Yes. Final thoughts?

[Frances Collier]

No. No final thoughts other than I hope people are adjusting to daylight savings. It seems to be a big argument out there. No, just. I got.

[Angela V. Shelton]

I got nothing.

[Frances Collier]

I think your closing thoughts are probably where mine are right now. Everyone's just trying to get through this week. It seems like it feels like a weird one. So.

[Angela V. Shelton]

Yeah, definitely. And we'll be back tomorrow, everybody. It's. I imagine that Wednesday is going to be. Which is what you're in right now as you're listening to this, but I imagine it's going to be a pret. Big news day. I've got a couple of inside things that say that there's going to be some big news. And. And I don't want to get anybody too excited, but just a lot of news coming out in the next couple of days, so. So until we meet again, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health, and vote blue over Q. I've been AG and I've been dg and them's the beans. Refried bean. I like refried beans.