The Daily Beans Podcast – “Refried Beans: Riptide Thinking; Current Messaging”

Episode Date: December 26, 2023
Host: Allison Gill (AG), MSW Media
Guests: Phil Williams (Investigative Journalist, WTVF Nashville), Amy McGrath (Ret. Lt. Colonel, USMC, Co-founder Operation Saving Democracy)

OVERVIEW

This episode revisits two hard-hitting interviews from December 2023, exploring the vital role of investigative journalism at the local level, attacks on public education, dangers facing American democracy, and the bipartisan mission to hold the line against authoritarianism.

• First Half: AG speaks with Nashville’s renowned investigative reporter Phil Williams on uncovering political scandals, crumbling local media, and new threats to public institutions.
• Second Half: AG interviews Amy McGrath about “Operation Saving Democracy”—a movement by top national security leaders to bridge political divides, defend U.S. democracy, and push back against Trumpism, especially headed into 2024.

INTERVIEW 1: PHIL WILLIAMS — THE POWER & PERIL OF LOCAL INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALISM

[00:45] Introduction & Phil’s Backstory

• Phil Williams has a near 35-year journalism career, much of it Nashville-based; multiple prestigious awards.
• “I am a child of Watergate. I was just enamored with what happened with Watergate.” (Phil Williams, [02:06])
• Both Phil and AG trace their inspiration for investigative work and podcast advocacy to Watergate’s shadow and the drive to expose corruption.

[03:42] Reporting on Gabrielle Hanson: Uncovering Political Fabrications

• Started with a tip: something “not quite right” with Franklin, TN, mayoral candidate Gabrielle Hanson.
• Used AI image searches to expose fabricated, lifted images of supposed diverse supporters—none of whom knew Hanson.
• “She was the gift that kept giving... She was lifting this image to claim a diverse group of supporters. And it just snowballed from there.” (Phil Williams, [03:42])
• Further reporting: questionable residency, anti-LGBTQ stances, her husband’s curious appearance at a pride parade, false police claims regarding school shooting, and refusal to disavow white supremacists.
• “At one candidates forum, she showed up with a group of white supremacists. And I had investigated these characters before... it was like homecoming week with a guy who threatened to kill me.” (Phil Williams, [05:42])

[08:08] From Hanson to Ogles: Pattern of Political Misrepresentation

• Following the George Santos revelations, Phil investigates TN Rep. Andy Ogles’ suspicious résumé.
• Ogles postured as economist/law enforcement/international crimes expert. Phil’s reporting shows he took only one college-level economics course—“and he got a C in it.”
• “We just started unraveling his resume, just one claim after another.” (Phil Williams, [09:50])
• His work illustrates a trend: unchecked local races allow for unvetted, misleading candidates to rise.

[12:02] Unmasking Attacks on Public Education

• Documents obtained show TN “school choice” advocacy groups really seek full privatization, not merely charter expansion.
• This is “a well-financed effort by billionaires and millionaires to undermine traditional public education and to privatize education in Tennessee and across the country.” (Phil Williams, [13:14])
• Voucher expansion reveals the true aim: “money for private schools, for homeschooling, without any regard for educational outcomes.” (Phil Williams, [13:42])

[15:56] The Crisis of Local Journalism

• The collapse of local newsrooms: what once was 10–15 reporters for a county of 255,000, now barely five, many stretched across regions.
• Loss of local media is a democratic wound: “There are just not enough eyeballs on these communities... I think that democracy has been challenged at the state and local level for many, many years. It just hasn't received the attention that the challenges to democracy at the national level have received.” (Phil Williams, [16:54])
• Special interests take advantage, targeting state and local policy as national media shrinks and statehouse reporters dwindle.

[19:20] “Riptide Thinking” and the Media Business Model Crisis

• “Legacy news organizations have tried to cut their way to success and it has only increased the decline of local media.” (Phil Williams, [20:19])
• AG and Phil discuss “riptide thinking”—the idea that legacy outlets’ instinct to cut costs rather than invest in real journalism only deepens their problems.

[20:32] Right-Wing Disinformation Machine, Attacks on the Press

• Phil identifies personal and professional costs—receiving abuse and threats, being targeted by right-wing media, and struggling against a storm of disinformation.
• “Increasingly my job involves speaking truth to the angry mob... People read something about my reporting from far right media and suddenly they're on the attack coming after me.” ([21:46])
• His advice when attacked: tune out, take breaks, but remember the real support from the community.
• “The loudest voices don't necessarily represent the true thinking of the people.” ([24:18])

[27:54] A Calling—Not Just a Job

• “...there is some sense, general sense, that, you know, this is my calling... This is what I felt I could best do to make a difference in the world.” (Phil Williams, [27:54])
• Difficulty unplugging—Phil says he feels personal obligation to continue, as there “are not enough of us out there doing this type of work.”

[29:21] Phil’s Call to Action

• Support local journalism, invest in local reporters, and strengthen J-School focus on local/state issues.
• “Everybody grab a microphone... and support local journalists.” (Phil Williams, [29:21])

INTERVIEW 2: AMY MCGRATH — DEFENDING DEMOCRACY FROM THE NATIONAL SECURITY FRONTLINES

[30:42] Introducing Operation Saving Democracy

• Co-founded with retired Admiral Mike Smith; launched September 2023.
• McGrath: “We are a super PAC in order to highlight the national security concern of a second Trump presidency. We are pro democracy.” ([31:13])
• The coalition leverages voices from both parties—retired military/community leaders who “normally don't wade into politics,” but see Trumpism as an existential threat.

[33:19] Communicating the Stakes—to the Right Audience

• The “trusted messenger” strategy: “A lot of Americans…won't necessarily listen to political people, but they will listen to people who have been at the highest levels of national security.”
• The PAC’s target: moderate Republicans and independents—especially those in swing states and with a defense/national security background.
• “Remind voters about…Donald Trump tried to overthrow a free and fair election and allowed our capital to be invaded for the first time since the War of 1812.” ([32:19])

[34:25] What Trump’s Second Term Would Mean

• McGrath outlines Project 2025—plans to purge apolitical military leadership, replace with “sycophants,” bend the military and federal government to Trump’s will.
• “Imagine a military where he just won't promote any general or admiral who isn't a sycophant... He will have only sycophants and he will make those orders. And that's the kind of real thing that moves us into this breaking of this amazing tradition that we have between the trust of the American people and their own military.” ([35:10])
• Concrete, chilling scenarios (e.g., orders to use military against domestic protest): “Former Defense Secretary Esper said that Donald Trump wanted to do that and was talked out of it.” ([36:40])

[37:34] Strategy: Defeat Trumpism at the Ballot Box

• Not every voter is reachable by the same message—the focus is on “that gentleman…who... said to the candidate Scott... If you can't stand up to Donald Trump, how are you going to stand up to Vladimir Putin? That's the kind of guy we want…he fought the Cold War and won it. And we have to remind him the current Republican Party... is not the party of national security anymore.” (Amy McGrath, [39:00])
• Swing states may come down to 1-2% change in vote—trusted, targeted messaging to security-minded Republicans or independents can make the difference.

[41:31] Combating “Both Sides” Cynicism, Low-Information Voters

• GOP aims to muddy waters with manufactured Biden scandals, equate every Trump scandal: “The low information voter who only watches politics when they go into the barber and only sees the ticker line on Fox News… that's a way to get them to not believe in any party, to not believe in their institutions.” ([42:55])
• The antidote: persistent truth-telling—journalism, direct communication, trusted advocacy.

[43:35] Saving Democracy: The Collective Effort

• AG: “There's no magic bullet here…all of it has to be working together in conjunction. Journalism, advocacy... courts... ballot, politics…”
• “We're in the fight of our lives for our democracy…this is our country. And it's not only our country, it's the country I want to give to my children, to my two sons and my daughter.” (Amy McGrath, [44:48])
• Vivid invocation of WWII and Cold War sacrifices—“The greatest generation fought and died for... this country... and here we are on the verge of losing it because the Republican Party wants to play politics.”

[47:40] The Urgency: Aid to Ukraine as a Test of American Commitment

• “The Ukrainians have won. Tactically, they are winning. Remember, they weren't supposed to last three days.” (Amy McGrath, [47:54])
• “If we stop aid... It would be just the most heinously terrible thing to do. Not only the shame, but also they're winning. They simply need more ammunition to continue to win...” ([48:10])
• Underscored cost: “It's about 75 bucks per American. That's it. I mean, that's not much to hold up the world order that the greatest generation fought and died for, for us.” ([48:14])

[48:54] Final Warnings: Credibility, Deterrence, and the World Stage

• “If we pull away from [Ukraine], South Korea is going to get nuclear weapons. Japan, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, the list goes on. We will not be credible anymore. We will have lost all credibility as a world power. And what the greatest generation built will be.” (Amy McGrath, [49:53])
• The Republican Party and Putin “are aligned because they both want Biden to have a political loss.” ([48:58])

NOTABLE QUOTES

• Phil Williams:
  • “There is a well-financed effort by billionaires and millionaires to undermine traditional public education and to privatize education in Tennessee and across the country.” ([13:14])
  • “Legacy news organizations have tried to cut their way to success and it has only increased the decline of local media.” ([20:19])
  • On enduring threats: “The loudest voices don't necessarily represent the true thinking of the people.” ([24:18])
  • "I am not going anywhere." (on being targeted with personal attacks, [27:00])
• Amy McGrath:
  • “You have to defend our democracy right now, and we have to stand up and talk about the threat to democracy that Trump and Trumpism pose.” ([31:19])
  • “Imagine a military... where he just won't promote any general or admiral who isn't a sycophant... In a second Trump presidency... he will have only sycophants and he will make those orders. And that's the kind of real thing that moves us into this breaking of this amazing tradition...” ([35:05])
  • “The Republican Party right now and Vladimir Putin are aligned because they both want Biden to have a political loss... the Republican Party right now cares more about their own interest as a party and having Biden lose something than about the world order that the greatest generation fought and died for.” ([48:58])
• Allison Gill (AG):
  • “We need more voices. We need more investigative journalists. We need more money in local and state journalism.” ([29:01])
  • “After this, we can go back to our corners and have our policy debates, but the corners disappear if we don't do this.” ([44:34])

IMPORTANT SEGMENTS & TIMESTAMPS

• [03:42] – Phil Williams on uncovering Gabrielle Hanson's fabrications
• [08:08] – Williams’ investigation into Andy Ogles’ fake credentials
• [12:02] – Exposing the nationwide push to privatize education
• [16:54] – How the local news industry collapse imperils democracy
• [20:19] – “Riptide thinking” and media business failures
• [21:46] – Surviving right-wing abuse and disinformation attacks
• [27:54] – Why Phil can’t stop: investigative journalism as a life calling
• [30:40] – Amy McGrath on launching Operation Saving Democracy
• [34:25] – Real dangers of a second Trump term: military, Project 2025
• [37:34] – Communicating with national security-minded swing voters
• [42:55] – GOP disinformation and the “both sides” trap
• [44:48] – The present as a “fight of our lives” for democracy
• [47:54] – Ukraine, U.S. credibility, and the world order at risk

FINAL TAKEAWAYS

• Local investigative journalism is critical but imperiled; unchecked, special interests will fill the vacuum.
• National security leaders—once apolitical—are mobilizing to warn about the dangers of authoritarianism and Trumpism.
• Targeted, trusted voices are key to moving swing voters, especially around issues of democracy and U.S. global leadership.
• The stakes: not only the 2024 election, but America’s standing, democratic institutions, and the world order that past generations fought to build.

To get involved and learn more:

• Phil Williams: @NC5PhilWilliams (on socials)
• Amy McGrath & Operation Saving Democracy: operationsavingdemocracy.org

Tone:
Frank, determined, at times humorous but focused on urgency. Both interviews stress vigilance, resilience, and collective action—ending with a call for more “beans” (voices!) in the fight.