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Refried Beans | Will Be Lit (feat. Norm Eisen) May 2, 2024
00:56:55
Thursday, May 2nd, 2024 The Arizona Senate has voted to repeal the 1864 abortion ban which now heads to Katie Hobbs’ desk for signature; Florida’s six week abortion ban goes into effect; Democrats win a New York special election Congressional seat; Marjorie Taylor Greene says she will force a vote to vacate Speaker Johnson next week; United Methodists repeal a longstanding rule against LGBTQ+ clergy; the Manhattan DA says they will retry Harvey Weinstein after the court overturned his conviction; plus Allison and Dana deliver your Good News.
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- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media. Hey, everybody, it's Ag. And welcome to Refried Beans, where we play an episode of the Daily Beans podcast from the same week either one, two or three years ago, so we can see how far we've come. So please enjoy this episode from days gone by and note the date in the intro.
- [00:23]
Dana Goldberg
Refried beans.
- [00:24]
Alison Gill
I like refried beans.
- [00:25]
Dana Goldberg
That's why I want to try fried.
- [00:26]
Alison Gill
Beans, because maybe they're just as good and we're wasting time.
- [00:35]
Norm Eisen
Daily Beans.
- [00:36]
Dana Goldberg
Daily Beans. Daily Beans.
- [00:41]
Norm Eisen
Daily Beans.
- [00:46]
Alison Gill
Hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Thursday, May 2, 2024. Today, the Arizona Senate has voted to repeal the 1864 abortion ban, which now heads to Katie Hobbs desk for signature. Florida's six week abortion ban has gone into effect. Democrats win a New York special election. Congressional seat. Marjorie Taylor Greene says she will force a vote to vacate Speaker Johnson next week. United Methodists repeal a long standing rule against LGBTQ clergy. And the Manhattan DA says they will retry Harvey Weinstein after the court overturned his conviction. I'm Alison Gill.
- [01:22]
Norm Eisen
And I'm Dana Goldberg.
- [01:28]
Alison Gill
Hey, Dana. Happy Thursday. So happy it's Thursday.
- [01:31]
Norm Eisen
I am too. How was your day?
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Alison Gill
Long, but good. Just a lot of work, you know, always writing, always, always trying to gather the news, trying to figure out what's going on with the news. A lot because of all the disinformation and misinformation that's constantly being shared on social media sites. And first, I want to send love and safety and respect to the peaceful protesters, the student protesters. Please stay safe. I'm not going to make any assumptions until the facts are in, but I support people's First Amendment right to peacefully protest. I protested on campus in 1991 against Bush and Halliburton, and I'm against violence of any kind. I just want everybody to be safe. I want people to be able to attend classes. I want everybody's voices to be heard. That's very important to me. And it sucks to see some of the mainstream media kind of exploit what's going on with these kids.
- [02:25]
Norm Eisen
Yeah, it really is. And I said this to you off camera, but Putin is loving every minute of this division in this country and I believe Netanyahu is too. He wants Trump in office. And so please, if you're out there protesting, and I just want to put emphasis on peaceful protesters, they have the right. There's no room for violence in the. Just please be safe on both sides. I truly mean that. When students protest something, usually they're feeling very strongly about it one way or the other. And there's something really valuable in that. As long as everyone stays alive.
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Alison Gill
Yes, please. And even if we disagree with speech, they're free to make it.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah. These videos are just horrifying. They are. Some of them are just. And I don't love that the right wings on Twitter and X are like, look at Biden's police are doing. These aren't Biden's police. Biden's police are federal cops. A lot of these are state police. They're making decisions within their own state. The governors are in charge of these things. So please, if you see that sort of thing, just know this is not Biden's America. This is very specific to whoever is leading that state, how they decided to handle these conflicts.
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Alison Gill
And then, you know, you get down to the police as well. So it's, there's so much information out there and so much misinformation. I just want everybody to be safe and have their voices heard.
- [03:51]
Norm Eisen
Absolutely.
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Alison Gill
Also later today in the show, I'm going to be talking to Ambassador Norm Eisen. We're going to discuss his new book, Trying Trump, which is like kind of like a prosecutor's notebook for what's going on in the election interference case. And we have a really great conversation coming up later today. We do have a couple of, of quick hits.
- [04:10]
Norm Eisen
All right, first one, the Arizona Senate has voted 16 to 14 to repeal that very old, very, very old 1864 abortion ban. It will now go to the desk of Governor Katie Hobbs who has said she will sign the repeal. No surprise there. The law won't go into effect until 90 days after the end of the legislative session.
- [04:30]
Alison Gill
Well, 16 to 14. So they had some Republicans defect to be able to do that. Of course, the two indicted Republicans in Arizona voted against the repeal. Of course, also. Yeah. But here's what, check this out. State Senator Tim Kennedy in New York won the special election for New York's 26th congressional district.
- [04:51]
Norm Eisen
Love it.
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Alison Gill
He defeated Republican Gary Dixon, 68 to 31.
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Norm Eisen
Wow.
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Alison Gill
Gary Dixon was a town supervisor in the upstate New York district and includes the cities of Buffalo and Niagara Falls. And this new Democrat will serve out former Democratic Congressman Brian Higgins term which ends in January. Higgins resigned his seat just this past February to take a job leading a performing arts center in the Democratic leaning district. The new balance of power in the Congress gives Republicans a one vote margin of error in the House, which is going to be real interesting considering what Marjorie Taylor Greene is poised to do.
- [05:28]
Norm Eisen
I'll be shocked if she actually does this because as much as she wants to look like she's tough, she also does not love being embarrassed. So unless she knows she has these votes, I don't know, I'd be surprised. But we'll see what happens in ag. We have a lot of news to get to.
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Alison Gill
All right. Thank you and yeah, let's do that. Let's hit the hot notes. Hot notes. All right. First up from David Fisher at the Associated Press. Florida's ban on most abortions after six weeks of pregnancy, which is basically a full ban on abortion before many because most women don't know they're pregnant at six weeks. That went into effect Wednesday. And some doctors are concerned that women in the state will no longer have access to healthcare. Dr. Leah Roberts, a reproductive endocrinologist and fertility specialist with a Boca Fertility in Boca Raton, said the anti abortion laws being enacted by Florida and other red states are being vaguely written by people who don't understand medical science. The rules are affecting not just women who want therapeutic abortions, meaning procedures to terminate viable pregnancies because of a personal choice, but but also non viable pregnancies for women who want to have babies. Quote, we're coming in between them and their doctors and preventing them from getting care until it's literally saving their lives, sometimes at the expense of their fertility. The new ban has an exception for saving a woman's life as well as in cases involving rape and incest. But Roberts said healthcare workers are still prevented from performing an abortion on a non viable pregnancy that they know may become deadly, such as when a fetus is missing organs or implanted outside of the uterus until it actually does become deadly. Quote, we're being told that we have to wait until the mother is septic to be able to intervene. And also it's just going to chill doctors from doing any kind of abortion.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
And what are the rape and incest reporting requirements? You know, it's bullshit. Beside the physical danger, there's also the psychological trauma of having to carry a fetus that the mother knows will never be a healthy baby. Quote, they're feeling the kicks for months after they're being told that they're never going to have a live birth. And it's just horrifying when you could take care of it at 20 weeks and move on and they could get pregnant with their next pregnancy and be able to hold their babies that much sooner. The Biden campaign quickly placed blame for the extreme six week ban on former President Donald Trump. Quote, Trump is worried that the voters will hold him accountable for the cruelty and chaos he created. And he's right. Trump ripped away the rights and freedom of women in America this November, voters are going to teach him a valuable lesson. Don't mess with the women of America. That's what President Joe Biden said in a statement. Vice President Kamala Harris also criticized the six week ban on abortions during an event Wednesday in Jacksonville. Quote, because of Donald Trump, more than 20 states have abortion bans. And today, this very day, at the stroke of midnight, another Trump abortion ban went into effect here in Florida. As of this morning, 4 million women in this state woke up with fewer reproductive freedoms than they had last night. It's a very powerful statement by Vice President Harris. Roberts said a huge issue with the ban is that doctors who perform emergency abortions have to learn the procedures by performing therapeutic abortions. So if most abortions are banned, the next generation of doctors won't be able to develop the skills needed to perform an emergency abortion. Robert said she's concerned the restrictions will also prompt veteran doctors to leave Florida as they have in other states that have enacted abortion bans. In addition, women are going to have to travel far, far, far from home to get abortions. Florida Access Network Executive director Stephanie Pinero said the organization, which helps provide funding for abortions, expects costs to increase dramatically. She estimates it'll cost around $3,000 for a woman to travel to another state for an abortion. The closest place after 12 weeks would be Virginia or Illinois, but before 12 weeks would be North Carolina. Now voters may be able to enshrine abortion rights in Florida's constitution after a separate state Supreme Court ruling allowed a proposed constitutional amendment to be on the ballot in November. The proposal says no law shall prohibit, penalize, delay or restrict abortion before viability or when necessary to protect the patient's health as determined by the patient's healthcare provider, unquote. It provides for one exception that's already in the state constitution that parents have to be notified before their minor children can get an abortion.
- [09:49]
Norm Eisen
Thank you so much, Ag. This one's from Eric Levinson at cnn, the Manhattan district attorney's office. They're going to actually, I just want to give a trigger warning on this. I just realized who this story is about. They are going to retry the sex crimes case against Harvey Weinstein. And this is what a prosecutor told the court Wednesday at the former movie producer's first hearing since his convict conviction was overturned. Again, this is New York. The judge ordered Weinstein's remaining custody ahead of his retrial. With the next hearing set for May 29. Weinstein, who's 72, has been convicted in 2020 of first degree criminal sexual act and third degree rape and was sentenced to 23 years in prison. But last week, the New York Court of appeals, by a 4 to 3 vote, overturned the conviction and ordered a new trial, saying the trial judge wrongly admitted the testimony of three prior bad acts. That's what they call that, prior bad acts. Witnesses and incorrectly allowed prosecutors to question Weinstein about instances of verbal abuse. The court's ruling upended the case against Weinstein, whose downfall stood as a symbol of the success of the MeToo movement at the time. The Manhattan District Attorney's office said last week it planned to retry the case. And prosecutor Nicole Bloomberg, she made that position official in court on Wednesday. She said they want to retry the case quickly, as soon as September, if possible. Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg also arrived to court with Jessica Mann, one of the key accusers in the case. As a show of unity, quote, Jessica Mann is here in court to show she is not backing down. This is what Bloomberg said. She added, this was a strong case previously and it remains a strong case. In 2024, Weinstein arrived to court in a wheelchair and was wearing a suit. Arthur Adela, I believe that's his last name. That's his attorney, said Weinstein, quote, has very serious medical issues and has been at Bellevue Hospital, but said he was still mentally able. Quote, he is as sharp as attack and as smart as he ever was. That was Adela okay?
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Dana Goldberg
Yep.
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Norm Eisen
He pushed back on the prosecutor's assertion that the case is strong, saying, quote, he was acquitted of the most serious counts. He asked that the charges Weinstein was acquitted of be removed from the charging documents. Weinstein has maintained his innocence and denied any non consensual sexual activity. In addition to the New York case, Weinstein was sentenced last year in Los Angeles to 16 years in prison for charges of rape and sexual assault. That trial similarly used prior bad acts witnesses and also has been appealed. Manhattan prosecutors could face some significant challenges in retrying Weinstein. Haley said last week she would consider testifying again in a retrial, but noted the downsides of doing so if it involves so much re traumatizing and rehashing and reliving over and over again. Haley said, I definitely don't want to go through that again. She continued to say, this isn't just about me. It's a really important case. It's in the public eye, which is difficult for me personally, but it's important for the collective. Those are the reasons I will still do this again. I'm not doing it just for myself. I can't even imagine the re traumatization, if that is a word that these women have to go through because our justice system has these fucking loopholes.
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Alison Gill
Yeah. And. And you people wonder why women don't report.
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Norm Eisen
Absolutely. And men. This is what some men have to.
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Alison Gill
Go through to get justice.
- [13:19]
Norm Eisen
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
And you might not get it.
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Norm Eisen
It's true. Thank you, Ag.
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Alison Gill
What brave, brave and amazing women. So hats off to them for doing this. I also can't imagine.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
All right. Next up from CBS News, Marjorie Taylor Greene on Wednesday said next week she will follow through on her threat to force a vote to oust House Speaker Mike Johnson, adding to the dysfunction that has become increasingly routine for Republicans in the lower chamber. Quote, I think every member of Congress needs to take that vote and let the chips fall where they may. That's what Green said at a news conference on Wednesday. And so next week I'm going to be calling this motion to vacate. Green, a Georgia Republican, has dangled the threat of removing Johnson as House speaker since late March after he relied on Democrats to push through a $1.2 trillion spending bill to avert a partial government shutdown. Government gut down is what we're going to call that today. Apparently, she has since publicly and repeatedly denounced the Louisiana Republican leadership, accusing him of failing to keep his promises. Instead, she says he has negotiated with Democrats and broken procedural rules to pass major legislation, tactics made necessary by Republicans, razor thin majority and GOP infighting. And let me just remind you, may I just remind you, Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi had a very thin margin as well, but knew how to count.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
Johnson's decision to push ahead with more funding for Ukraine to assist the US Ally in its war against Russia, which Greene vehemently opposes, was the final straw. That's her final straw.
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Norm Eisen
It's absurd.
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Alison Gill
Funding Ukraine.
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Norm Eisen
Yep.
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Alison Gill
In mid April, her effort to oust Johnson gained support of two more conservatives, Tom Massey of Kentucky and Paul Gosar of Arizona. That's the dentist whose whole family hates him. Facing a week long recess after the House approved a major foreign aid package that included billions for Ukraine, they waited until lawmakers returned to D.C. to start the countdown on a vote, hoping that Republicans would hear from angry constituents and support their cause or that Johnson would resign. Republicans hold an increasingly narrow majority, as we said at the top of the show, something former President Trump recently noted in his tepid defense of Johnson, saying it's not like he can go and do whatever he wants to do. The three GOP votes against Johnson mean he will need Democratic votes to save his speakership. If everyone in attendance is voting, then. Johnson said in a statement after Green's announcement that the motion is, quote, wrong for the Republican conference, wrong for the institution, and wrong for the country. The speaker previously said he'd not asked Democrats to help him, and he's appeared undeterred by the biggest threat to his job that he's only had for six months, by the way, and says he will not step down. When asked who could replace Johnson, Greene said she wouldn't name any names, but she said she believed the conference has people who are capable. Mm. You don't. You don't quote, we're not going to have a House majority if we keep Mike Johnson, she warned. Well, we'll see if this motion to vacate prompts any more moderate Republicans to quit Congress and just hand the gavel to Hakeem Jeffries.
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Norm Eisen
Oh, it would just be dreamy.
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Alison Gill
The rumors are a swirling from folks that I've spoken to that there are and may be some folks who would bow out if a motion to vacate came up.
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Norm Eisen
Do it. Push them, mtg. Push them out. All right, this one is from Peter Smith at the Associated Press. United Methodist delegates, they repealed their church's longstanding ban on LGBTQ clergy with no debate on Wednesday removing a rule forbidding, quote, self avowed practicing homosexuals from being ordained or appointed as ministers. This is fabulous. Delegates voted 692 to 51 at their general Conference. Yeah, this was not close. The first such legislative gathering in five years. That overwhelming margin contrasts sharply with the decades of controversy around the issue. Past General Conferences of the United Methodist Church had steadily reinforced the ban and related penalties amid debate in protests. But many of the conservatives who had previously upheld the ban, they've left. They left the denomination in recent years, and this General Conference has moved in a solidly progressive direction. I love to hear this. Applause broke out in parts of the convention hall Wednesday after the vote. A group of observers from LGBTQ advocacy groups embraced it. In some tears. They said, thanks be to God. Now that's what one of them said. And indeed, the change doesn't mandate or even explicitly affirm LGBTQ clergy, but it means the church no longer forbids them. That is a step in the right direction. It's possible that the change will mainly apply to U.S. churches since United Methodist bodies in other countries, such as in Africa, they have the right to impose the rules of their own regions. The measure takes effect immediately upon the conclusion of General Conference that's scheduled for Friday. The consensus was so overwhelming that it was rolled into a, quote, consent calendar, a package of normally non controversial measures, and another, quote, it seemed like such a simple vote, but it carried so much weight and power as 50 years of restricting the Holy Spirit's call on people's lives has been lifted. This is from Bishop Karen Olavido. She's the first openly lesbian bishop at the United Methodist Church. Quote, people can live fully into their call without fear. That's what Oliveto. And she's of the Mountain Sky Episcopal area, which includes Colorado, Montana, Utah and Wyoming. The church we've loved has found a home for us. That's what she said. Also approved was a measure that forbids district superintendents, or regional administrators, as they're called, from penalizing clergy for either performing a same sex wedding or for refraining from performing one. It also forbids superintendents from forbidding or requiring a church from hosting a same sex wedding. The measure further removes scaffolding around the various LGBTQ bands that have been embedded in official church law and policy. On Tuesday, delegates began taking all of these steps. Delegates are also expected to vote soon on whether to replace existing official social principles with a new document that no longer calls, quote, practice of homosexuality incompatible with Christian teaching and that now defines marriage as between, quote, two people of faith, rather than between a man and a woman.
- [19:52]
Alison Gill
I love that.
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Norm Eisen
That is so powerful. These changes are historic in a denomination that has debated LGBTQ issues for more than a half a century at its general conferences, which typically meets every four years. On Tuesday, delegates voted to remove mandatory penalties for conducting same sex marriages and to remove their denominations ban on considering LGBTQ candidates for ministry and on funding for gay friendly ministries. And I just want to repeat, this vote was 692 to 51.
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Alison Gill
Wow.
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Norm Eisen
Incredible.
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Alison Gill
Changing the words to two people of faith, that's huge. As opposed to between a man and a woman.
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Norm Eisen
That's.
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Alison Gill
That's wonderful.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah.
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Alison Gill
I'm agnostic, but that's fantastic.
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Dana Goldberg
It.
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Alison Gill
It's also interesting that all of the conservatives are gone.
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Norm Eisen
Right, right.
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Alison Gill
Like it, like it. Like time did this. You know, it's true.
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Norm Eisen
I mean, I don't know if I think it's. They're literally gone gone or. Yeah, but time did this.
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Alison Gill
Yeah. Either that or they left because they knew this was coming or they were just. They. There was so much pressure about their old stupid ideas and their old bigotry that they were like, I don't belong here anymore. Goodbye.
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Norm Eisen
Yeah, that or some of these people had children that came out of the closet.
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Alison Gill
That happens quite a bit.
- [21:22]
Norm Eisen
Yep.
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Alison Gill
It changes a lot of minds. All right. Thank you for that story and thanks to everybody for listening. I'm going to be right back with Ambassador Norm Eisen. You know him as a CNN legal analyst. He also writes, he's a fellow over at the Brookings Institution. Awesome dude. We're going to talk about his book Trying Trump, and it's really, really incredible. It reads like a prosecutor's notebook. It's fascinating. You want to get your copy now as we follow along with the election interference trial. It's so, so helpful. And we'll be back with him. And then the good news right after this. Stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody. Welcome back. I'm happy to be joined today by senior fellow at Brookings and legal analyst for cnn and now author of Trying Trump, which is a guide to his first election interference criminal trial, an incredible book out now. Please welcome Norm Eisen. Hello.
- [22:26]
Dana Goldberg
Hello, Allison. Thanks for having me back.
- [22:32]
Alison Gill
Of course. This book is so cool. It reads like a, like a, a criminal lawyer, his like guide to the prosecution and pretty much like everything that you put out, like, when I go back and look at all the just security, mock indictments, everything sort of ends up working out the way that you say. And so far, so good with this book and, and the trial from starting with the voir dire to opening statements which are not arguments, to now the bringing on the witnesses in the same chronological order as you put on the case in the opening statements. It's brilliantly done. Thank you. And I'm so glad that you are calling this an election interference case. And I kind of want to start there because that's the crux of elevating these 34 misdemeanor counts to felonies are these three underlying crimes and the main one being the agreement, the conspiracy to impact the outcome of the election. And so talk a little bit about that. And also, what prompted you to put this book together?
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Dana Goldberg
You know, I have been persistently befuddled by the failure of some very smart people to understand what the criminal charges against Donald Trump are actually all about. I get it. You know, when the case was filed a year ago, over a year ago, okay. People could have said, well, I don't understand it. And it was new. But after Alvin Bragg has persistently explained, including in his multiple court filings, providing the response to the request For Bill Particulars, winning in federal court, winning in state court, that his charges are that Donald Trump falsified business records 34 times to cover up a conspiracy to illegally influence the 2016 election by making these payments far in excess of campaign contribution limits, federal and state, to benefit his campaign by keeping very damaging information out. It is the same basic pattern voter deception to grasp power and covering it up as Jackson or Fani Willis. This is the gateway drug. And that's the case that has, as it has come in, I'm in court every day. And that's why, studying the case, I wrote the book title Trying a Guide to his First Election Interference Criminal Trial, because that's what makes misdemeanor document falsification a felony, is the intent to conceal another crime. And here it's campaign and election crimes.
- [25:51]
Alison Gill
Yeah, 100%. It reminds me of, you know, you bring up Fulton county when, when I learned how racketeering charges work, right. You've got the overt acts which you don't have to criminally charge or prove beyond a reason. You know, those are the underlying things and that the conspiracy, everything is in furtherance. Those overt acts are in furtherance of, of the crime. But here we've got three crimes that are listed multiple times, like you said, especially in the bill of particulars, one of them being the New York law that it's a crime to conspire to interfere in the outcome of an election. Then we've got the, like you said, the over the limit federal campaign contributions. And then the third one is even. We haven't really gotten to this point yet. But the fact that they overpaid Michael Cohen to reimburse him to make up for the fact that he was gonna have to pay taxes on this payback. And so that's tax crime in New York State. And I think it's, you know, I think it's so important. I was making an appearance on another show today. I quoted you, Mr. Eisen. I said, look, this is an election interference case and here's why. And to see it go back and forth on, on social media a lot between people who like lawyers and prosecutors who are like, it's not a strong case, there's no underlying crime. Somebody even said that he hasn't been clear about the underlying crimes. And I was ridiculous.
- [27:16]
Dana Goldberg
They're not, they're reacting, Alison. Those reactions are stale. And it's no better than year old milk or fish year old arguments. It's not like wine. Ignorance doesn't get better over time. And they haven't tracked out. You can say of brag that he should have been more clear when he filed. As clear as he was, his lawyers were his colleagues in their opening statements when they said this is a case about a conspiracy to commit election fraud. And to cover it up, whether you call it election interference, illicit election influence, election fraud, you can't make hundred thousand dollar Anna payments to hundreds of thousands of dollars of payments to benefit a campaign and then falsify documents to cover that up. That's not allowed. And it's very similar to why Dinesh D'Souza went to jail. You know, he was secretly arranging large payments to benefit a campaign and covering it up. It's not allowed. And that's the case that's coming in. It's come in as I'm there every day, so I know it's come in very strong. And of course, the denouement will be Michael Cohen.
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Alison Gill
Yeah. And let's talk about Cohen because. Well, actually, let's rewind a little bit and start with the opening statements and the chronology of how this case is going to be presented and when you think Michael Cohen, where and when you think he might fit into this story. Because it seems to me that they've opened up with, you know, They've started with Mr. Pecker, who's a very reliable witness, signed an immunity deal back in 2019, and also signed one with the feds before Bill Barr parked that case for a year. Then they brought in some people to verify and give foundation for video of Donald Trump because he wouldn't just accede to that, that it was actually him on these tapes. And now we're getting into the lawyer, Keith Davidson. And then of course, you would think it would seem that the other lawyer involved here, Michael Cohen, might come next. But they could also start with Karen McDougal because she was the first in the series. So where do you think. And talk about this in the book too, because I know you set it up this way in the book where the chronology based on opening statements is headed.
- [29:55]
Dana Goldberg
I think that it's clear from the pattern that we've seen so far where we had a big star witness, bit of a surprise star witness. And you know, Pecker gave us a lot of new information about Trump's state of mind. Right. The formation, clearly they're using Pecker to corroborate Trump's intent to illegally garner hundreds of thousands of dollars that cannot be contributed to a campaign, to benefit the campaign through these payments to his former paramours. To keep that information, keep that information secret. And Pecker's like, you know, Pecker testified. We agreed Donald Trump, Michael Cohen and I. So that agreement is going to carry forward for years. You know, they're, they're, they're using that agreement. But then Becker was an eyewitness to it all. He didn't consummate the Stormy Daniels agreement because he got cold feet owing to the figuring out the illegality of it. But you know, you do have stormy conversations between Pecker and Cohen and then you have the follow up, the thank you. That's icing on the conspiracy cake. So Pecker was a big surprise star witness. Then we got, you know, this is a document intensive case. Then you got some more low level document custodians, Trump office witness around a graph. Gary Farrell, bank witness, other custodians to prove up evidence. Normally the defense would stipulate sitting there. It doesn't look like the defense is stipulating to anything.
- [31:45]
Norm Eisen
Right.
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Dana Goldberg
So now we have Keith Davidson. It would be logical. We'll see. Probably get some more documentary witnesses, maybe custodian of records at the Trump Organization to prove up these checks and invoices, multiple accounting witnesses. Then another big witness like a Karen McDougall, if they call her. We'll see. They don't have to have Karen McDougal, but I do think that they are going to. If I were guessing, I am guessing I would analyze and of course she's on my list. So I'm analyzing. Yeah, probably Karen McDougal, then more document witnesses, then Stormy that more document witnesses. You know, you'll get Hope Hicks, probably pre Stormy. You'll get Kellyanne Conway. Pre Stormy. George Conway is my trial buddy. I sit with him. He's wait in line with him. So that'll be an interesting day when Kelly, when I'm sitting there with George and Kellyanne is testifying and then build up to Stormy. But this alternate. And then, you know, you'll get just chronologically it probably makes more sense to do Stormy before Michael Cohen. And then Cohen will be, you know, Cohen will be probably, I would guess more towards the end of the trial.
- [33:17]
Alison Gill
Yeah, and that's the one I think that the defense will probably do their best to try to impeach because he is a convicted.
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Dana Goldberg
Oh my God. It's going to be the cross. It's going to be the cross examination of this entry. Have you had him on the Daily Beans or any of your other pods?
- [33:33]
Alison Gill
I have.
- [33:34]
Dana Goldberg
He's a character. Michael Cohen was the first. Just to talk about his testimony a little. Michael Cohen was the first in depth interview I did for the first Trump impeachment. I did it very early, right after they brought me on Democrats took back the House, brought me on to House Judiciary right away to help lead the impeachment. And I went to see Cohen because he's got all the, you know, he's got all the secrets. And I was focused on this scandal, among other things, because corrupt procurement of office, I was way out ahead of anybody in saying this is a campaign corruption and cover up case. Corrupt procurement of office is grounds for impeachment in Anglo American law. Michael Cohen has never wavered one inch in what he said about this Stormy Daniels payoff and cover up. Since I first talked to him at the beginning of 2019, his story is absolutely consistent, it's heavily corroborated. Now he's very emotional because his allegiance to Donald Trump cost him everything. I mean, it was a devastating price he paid. But I think he'll keep his cool, he'll be a good witness, he'll be a star. And you know, and he's going to bring this case home for the prosecution.
- [35:06]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I think so too.
- [35:07]
Dana Goldberg
But it's going to be lit.
- [35:08]
Alison Gill
It's gonna be lit, it will be lit. And I'm glad that he stopped going on TikTok and doing live streams about the, and commenting on the trial. So if you had anything to do with that. Thank you, sir. But yeah, I, I agree with you. I think that his testimony is going to be very key and prosecutors have a long history of, of bringing up cooperating witnesses who have committed crimes in the past. I mean, it's, it's, oh yeah, it's, they're experts at how to present that and draw the sting before it happens and to present him as a credible witness like they did in the New York Attorney General civil fraud trial. One question for you before we go because it's come up now that Harvey Weinstein's conviction has been overturned because of Sandoval stuff. Harvey Weinstein argued to the appellate court that he was basically bullied out of testifying in his own defense because of all of the impeachment, Sandoval things from bad acts that were going to come up and that got his conviction overturned. And I imagine that Donald Trump will file a similar appeal saying that he was, didn't get a fair trial because he didn't get to testify because of all of these past bad acts that the judge, Judge Maran, Justice Maran has approved to bring up in that Sandoval hearing. Should we be Worried about that eventuality.
- [36:30]
Dana Goldberg
Just Judge Merchan was very cautious in his Sandoval determinations. He barred a number of the requested cross examination grounds. We should explain to the listeners. Sandoval is the New York State case that says out of fairness, fundamental due process rights of a defendant. The prosecution needs to tell the court early what the prior bad acts are, convictions, civil judgments, other conduct that they will use to impeach the defendant on cross examination if he chooses to testify. So the defendant can make a determination with his lawyers about how he's going to argue his case, defend his case, and know right from the start what he's going to be confronted with. And so here Judge Mershon, I thought, was conservative even before we got the Weinstein verdict about what Sandoval evidence he'll let in. I think it's consistent with the Weinstein opinion. Obviously, I've read it upside down and sideways. I think his ruling is consistent and he's been, you know, he's really been a model of fairness, more fair than, than I would. He's not going to put Trump in jail tomorrow on gag order violations number number 10 through 13. I would have put him in the pokey by now. So Judge Merchan is. Now, if there's a, another one after tomorrow's hearing, if there's another one, then that should be too much, even for Judge Merchant. So I think we're, I think we're in an okay place notwithstanding the Weinstein judgment.
- [38:31]
Alison Gill
Okay, good.
- [38:32]
Norm Eisen
Yeah.
- [38:32]
Alison Gill
And I agree, I think he'll get another fine and probably not from the bench tomorrow because I think it'll take a week. I think his holding off on ruling actually kind of chills Donald Trump's, you know, violations of the gag order. He went from 10 to 4, so maybe we'll go down to 2 for the following week after that. But it seemed, it seemed like a little bit of a stick to wait on the ruling and to wait on the hearing itself, but we'll see what ends up happening. So I need everybody, if you haven't yet, to go and get this book while you're following along with the trial, because it's, I mean, it just, it lays everything out in such a great detail. It's called Trying A guide to his first election interference criminal trial. And a big thank you to Norm Eisen for being out there on the trail browbeating people to make sure they call it an election interference trial and not a hush money case, because that's at the core of this. So do you have any last minute thoughts on what we may see today at trial or coming up in the future or anything else about the book you want to share with us?
- [39:43]
Dana Goldberg
The way the evidence is coming in, Donald Trump is very likely going to get convicted. And as I explained in chapter eight of the book, I reviewed over 10,000 falsifying business records, cases, felonies, since 2015. He's, if convicted, probably going to get a jail sentence.
- [40:06]
Alison Gill
Yeah, I wanted to ask you about that because I was only able to see a handful of cases and most of the time folks plead out to misdemeanors and don't end up going to the whole, you know, to the full trial and refusing to plead guilty and getting conviction. So you think he does face jail time?
- [40:23]
Dana Goldberg
Yeah, if he's convicted, particularly if he gets on the stand and lies about it, I think he faces profound risk.
- [40:33]
Alison Gill
All right, well, thank you very much. I appreciate your time today again, everybody. Wherever books are sold, it's called Trying a Guide to His First Election Interference, Criminal Trial. And make sure you follow Ambassador Norm Eisenhower wherever you are on social media. I appreciate your time today. Thank you very much.
- [40:51]
Dana Goldberg
Thanks, Alison. It's so wonderful to be with you again always.
- [40:56]
Alison Gill
And I'll have you back, I'm sure, to talk about what happens toward the end of this trial and what sentencing looks like. So everybody please stick around. We'll be right back with the good news after these messages. We'll be right back, everybody. Welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news, Everyone? Then good news, everyone. Good news. Good news. Wow. Big thanks to Ambassador Norm Eisen. What a cool guy. He's so smart. He's always right about all this stuff. Dana. He's so fun to talk.
- [41:39]
Norm Eisen
We're lucky to have him on the show.
- [41:41]
Alison Gill
Super lucky. He's just so, so very awesome to come on here and talk to us about his book. So everybody get, get that book now. Get it now. Get it now.
- [41:49]
Norm Eisen
Get it.
- [41:49]
Alison Gill
Get it. And if you have good news, confessions, corrections, you want to play what the Mutt or what the Farkas in your arc? Send us photos or drawings or descriptions if you want of your podcast and we'll try to guess something about it. You tell us what to guess and we'll give it a shot. And if you don't have podpet tax to pay, you can send us an adoptable pet in your area or give a shout out to a small business in your area that could use some support. We also love self shout outs. There's a brand new huge Big round of student debt relief. Send in your student debt relief stories if you're one of those. I actually had several people personally reach out to me in DMS today to ask how again they could submit their good news because their student debts were just wiped away, which is just truly, truly incredible. And by the way, the way that you do that and send any good news to us and any baby pictures and anything else you want to Send to us DailyBeansPod.com and click on Contact. All right, first up from BT. He and him, we did it. For 52 years, the United Methodist Church has excluded the LGBTQIA community, but that ban is now over. Yesterday, our governing body formally erased all harmful language from our rules and now allows for us to recognize the reality that God calls all people and that no one should ever be excluded from the church. For my pet, tax my dog Sadie with my middle son. Look at that dog and the boy. Adorable.
- [43:15]
Norm Eisen
Amazing.
- [43:16]
Alison Gill
A Sadie apparently is a French bulldog and Beagle mix a Frengle and my son is a middle child fifth grader. It just takes some time, little kid. You're in the middle half the ride. Everything will be all right. Now I have to say I chose to put the the news about the Methodist Church in the script before I opened this up. So this is truly amazing that our first good news submission is about the Methodist Church. United Methodist Church.
- [43:50]
Norm Eisen
All right. I also love this name. This is from Millie McGillicuddy, pronoun she and her Greetings fine people of the daily beans. I'm a 52 year old woman who got sober in her early 30s. I'll be 18 years sober this May 18th. Because I got sober, I was able to pass algebra third try and statistics in community college that took almost eight years. While I worked full time and unscrambled my brain. I went on to earn my Bachelor's, then got booted from Boston by the evil that is unchecked rent prices. I moved out of state, worked in patient psych and detox, had a legit nervous breakdown. Team ptsd, depression. What? And landed back living with my nearly estranged parents right as the pandemic started. I had a very difficult relationship with my dad who made it clear he did not want me in the house. He died while I was earning my Master's in Library and Information studies. This master's degree is a lifetime dream that I always thought was unattainable. I say there was a rip in the space time continuum that made this opportunity possible. I worked part time while going to school and have paid off the entire program. What? I'm very much looking forward to working in public libraries. They are where I have always felt safe and found solace. And I want to share that with others. So many resources. Good news indeed. And this is Zachariah, my big orange sweary rescue cat. He enjoys eating corn husks and lettuce.
- [45:22]
Alison Gill
Look at the.
- [45:24]
Norm Eisen
I know.
- [45:25]
Alison Gill
Oh, orange cat energy. Zachariah. I love it. And Millie, congratulations.
- [45:31]
Norm Eisen
Absolutely.
- [45:32]
Alison Gill
I love libraries. And I love the smell of library books.
- [45:35]
Norm Eisen
Yeah. There's something special about them.
- [45:37]
Alison Gill
And there was something really cool about checking out library books and, you know, making that list of checkout dates longer and putting your name on there, you know, and like, seeing how many people had read the book before you.
- [45:53]
Norm Eisen
Yep. And that actually I thought was the coolest.
- [45:56]
Alison Gill
Something magical about that. Then you could be like, oh, oh, look, Jenny. Jenny, read this book. I'm gonna go hang out and talk to Jenny about this. But I don't know. I loved it. It's probably invasion of people's privacy, but whatever. I was nine. It's cool.
- [46:10]
Norm Eisen
That's not your fault. It would be the libraries for leaving the little marker in there.
- [46:15]
Alison Gill
I'm creeping the bookmobile. Like, hey, Jenny, is that you?
- [46:18]
Norm Eisen
That's right.
- [46:20]
Alison Gill
You into the sweet valley Twins. Yeah, me too. Big ups. All right, next up from Nina Pronoun. She and her aloha, ag, D, G and msw Ohana from Honolulu. I almost.
- [46:30]
Norm Eisen
Honolulu.
- [46:31]
Alison Gill
She just tripped over that. Ohana from Honolulu. I've been excited to send you this news since you first started asking for dissertation titles. The thought of writing this has been the thing that has prevented me from entering an anxiety spiral leading up to my defense. As of this past week, I am officially a doctor in cell and molecular biology.
- [46:53]
Norm Eisen
Nice.
- [46:54]
Alison Gill
And I now have a dissertation title to share with you. My dissertation is titled Diet associated epigenetic modulation of phenotypes relevant to Autism spectrum disorders.
- [47:06]
Norm Eisen
Wow. Wow.
- [47:08]
Alison Gill
Diet associated epigenetic modulation of phenotypes relevant to Autism. That's incredible. This subject is of particular importance to me because I was diagnosed at 28 with high functioning autism spectrum disorder. Over the past few years, I've finally been noticing many of my little quirks that frustrate me can be attributed to autism symptoms. Another thing that can be attributed to autism, a complete lack of self awareness. Wink. Think it's been helpful in reminding me to forgive myself and not expect myself to react, quote unquote. Normally, the pressure to conform to expectations is hard, Especially when you're not neurotypical I hope I can use my degree to help future children with autism understand themselves better and at an earlier age in order to become their complete, original, quirky selves. Shout out to my neurodivergent guys, gals and non binary pals. We make the world a more interesting place. As a time and money po. As a time and money poor, geographically unstable grad student. I don't have a pup of my own to share for podpet tax, so instead I'll share Ford, one of my favorite dog friends. Ford has been coming three to four days a week to my mom's doggy daycare for almost seven years now. She basically shares custody with the actual family. Since Ford was rescued as a stray in Mexico, if anyone asks what he is, we tell him he's 100% Mexican beach dog. Otherwise, your guess is as good as anyone's. In addition to his case of severe cuteness, he also has an ability that is earned in the nickname Camo dog. Quote. Find the camo dog is one of my favorite family games, so I've attached a couple of good ones. Can you find the camo dog? Mahalo nui for all your hard work. And Nina, Mahalo nui for your hard work. That's incredible.
- [48:59]
Norm Eisen
Such incredible.
- [49:00]
Alison Gill
Such important news. And yeah, boy. When. When. When I was finally diagnosed with PTSD and started going through all the things that I have done that are associated with ptsd, I was like, oh. And my friends were like, oh, yeah, okay. Like, it all clicks together. It's kind of incredible. Look at the baby.
- [49:25]
Norm Eisen
Okay, I'm looking at the second photo and for camo dog, and the only thing I can come up with is it just to the left of the red chair.
- [49:34]
Alison Gill
That's what I was thinking, but zooming in, I. I can't tell.
- [49:41]
Norm Eisen
I can't tell either. This is a good one.
- [49:43]
Alison Gill
I can't tell where camo chair is in the second picture.
- [49:46]
Norm Eisen
Okay. Third picture got.
- [49:49]
Alison Gill
Yep. Okay.
- [49:50]
Norm Eisen
Which is actually very funny.
- [49:52]
Alison Gill
That is cute. Awesome. All right, thank you. Wow. Seven years of custody sharing.
- [50:00]
Norm Eisen
My goodness. All right, this last one, AG and I want to spend a little time on this submission came to us a couple of days ago and we wanted to make sure we got in touch with this person to make sure that it was okay to share and we can talk a little bit about it. And you'll understand why, after I read it, we made sure we kept this person anonymous just to protect them and where they happen to reside and where they're employed. So this is from anonymous and this person says, I've been a listener since the kitchen table days. I was a doctor who shared a few patients with Nassar. I failed. I was brand newly qualified and nervous about bringing up my concerns with us Gymnastics. I asked the families to send as many kids my way as they could and they did. I honestly am not sure why I'm texting, other than I hope to eventually forgive myself and I do love you and I'm so sorry. So aging. I read this and I wrote back to Anonymous, but I think there's something to be said here about people taking on responsibility of other people's monstrous acts when they are up against a system or a family or a community that is much bigger than themselves and doing everything they can. And Anonymous, I know we had an interaction over email, but I do want to say publicly that there's no need to carry this weight. You did not fail those children. In fact, you probably saved several of them to have their parents bring their children to you. And from what I understand, you were at a different school, you weren't even at the same school as Nassar, and you managed to get in touch with those parents and get them to send them to you. And so Ag, I know you have a lot to say on this too. And I just think there is something that we hold the trauma and the guilt of other people's sins quite often. And I don't know if women do that more than men. I don't want to make an assumption on that in any way. But. But in this specific situation, this doctor did what they could. They were up against not just the system, they were up against us, Gymnastics and the FBI and a doctor that somehow convinced everyone he was acting under his medical license. And so I do hope, Anonymous, as you're listening and you read my email, that you will. And, and, and you know, I know it's when the news stories come up that really trigger this. And so I, I do believe that Nassar's case is going to be go from breaking news to history and he will rot where he is, as he deserves to. So I hope there is some peace in that for you, knowing that in time, hopefully these stories will be in the past and that you release this responsibility that was not yours, this was not yours to take on.
- [53:03]
Alison Gill
Oh yeah, and I, I understand the inclination. Yeah, the overwhelming guilt of not reporting my sexual assault and shouldering the subsequent sexual assault from this person was and still is very difficult to, to deal with. And then to have people pile on and say, you know, because of you not reporting.
- [53:37]
Norm Eisen
Yeah, that's. That's not fair. And it's not productive in any way.
- [53:45]
Alison Gill
But I have long since let that go. But it's not easy. So I get it.
- [53:55]
Norm Eisen
Yeah, we're sending love. Just be gentle. And I said this to our submission, the person who wrote this in. Be as gentle on yourself and give yourself as much grace as you would give someone else telling the same story. And they responded that this person would give this other person grace and understanding and tries to do that, and it normally does. It's just when these news stories come back into the news, that it pings that trauma and that guilt within, within, within them. So we are sending you love and other people out there who are carrying things like this where you feel like you should have done more and could have done more. You don't know that. You just don't. And we all are doing the best we can, especially when we are not the people perpetrating these horrific crimes. So if there's anyone else out there experiencing something like this and you do need someone to talk to, please make sure that you find that outlet. If it happens to be writing into this podcast, so be it. Just make sure that you have the support that you need, please.
- [55:03]
Alison Gill
Yes. Abuse is always 100% on the abuser. So thank you for sending that in. I'm super brave and I can't imagine how much it must have been. I can. I actually can imagine.
- [55:19]
Norm Eisen
You can.
- [55:20]
Alison Gill
How much it must have been eating at you. And I hope you're talking to somebody other than us. I mean, thank you, but yeah, talking it out really, really helps. And you're not alone. That feeling of not being alone is huge. So I hope you find that. And again, sending love. And thank you.
- [55:39]
Norm Eisen
There was one other thing the submission said. This person said, I just want to feel like I'm part of this daily beans community. And who. Let me tell you, you are. There is no one listening to this podcast. Even if they are doing it out of spite. You know what I mean? You advertently are part of this community and maybe, just maybe, you will hear something that reaches you and changes your mind. But everyone who is putting time and allowing us into their ears every morning, on their walks, on the way to work, in the afternoon, after dinner when they're going to sleep, you are part of this Leguminati. You are part of this family and you are supported and you are loved.
- [56:21]
Alison Gill
Thank you. Very well said, my friend. And please send, send your stories into us, send your good news into us. Any news at all and something you just want to get off your chest. You can do it@dailybeanspod.com and click on contact and we'll be back on yours tomorrow. Do you have any final thoughts, my friend?
- [56:38]
Norm Eisen
No, I think that's enough for today.
- [56:40]
Alison Gill
All right, love y'all. Until tomorrow. Please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health, take care of your family. Vote blue over Q.
- [56:48]
Norm Eisen
And please take everyone you know with you.
- [56:50]
Alison Gill
I've been AG and I've been dg, and them's the beans.
- [56:53]
Dana Goldberg
Refried beans. I like refried beans.