The National Conversation (feat. Monica Hopkins)

Summary

The Daily Beans – Episode Summary

Episode Title: The National Conversation (feat. Monica Hopkins)

Date: September 18, 2025
Hosts: Alison Gill (AG), Dana Goldberg (DG)
Guest: Monica Hopkins, Executive Director ACLU-DC

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Overview

This episode of The Daily Beans dives into the rapid escalation of authoritarian moves in America, focusing on censorship, politically motivated prosecutions, abuses of executive power, and the normalization of military presence in civilian life. Key stories of the week are discussed with sharp commentary, with a central segment featuring Monica Hopkins of the DC ACLU discussing the legal and civil rights implications of the “occupation” of DC and the broader erosion of democracy, rights, and free speech. The hosts wrap with much-needed good news and listener submissions.

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Main Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media Censorship and Political Retaliation

• Jimmy Kimmel Pulled Off Air: Disney’s ABC indefinitely cancels Jimmy Kimmel Live after comments on the MAGA exploitation of Charlie Kirk’s death, following pressure and TV station preemptions by Nexstar Media ([02:20]).
  • AG: "This is from Variety...Disney’s ABC is saying it will take Jimmy Kimmel’s show off its schedule indefinitely. Immediately." (02:20)
  • Kimmel’s only offense: stating the right was using Kirk’s death for propaganda.
• Ongoing Trend: Colbert also silenced; concern for broader crackdown on late-night hosts and satire.

2. Skepticism Around 'Leaked' Shooter Texts

• Unverified alleged messages between Charlie Kirk’s shooter and roommate released publicly before trial.
  • Hosts question authenticity and motivations:
    • "I treated this the same way I treated the Wall Street Journal antifascist, transgender ideology bullshit story..." (05:15)
    • "None of this passes the smell test." (06:15)
  • Notable that both left and right-wing actors distrust these texts.

3. Erosion of Free Speech & First Amendment

• Corporate complicity in censorship:
  • Cancellation of Kimmel framed as a direct attack on free speech by supposed “absolutists.”
  • Quote: "I hope we see Target CEO resignation level consequences for this absolute assault on the First Amendment." (04:44)
• Calls for action: Listeners are encouraged to contact Nexstar’s executive about Kimmel’s cancellation ([31:06]).

4. Failures and Weaponization of Government Institutions

• Epstein Files Stonewalled:

  • Kash Patel and others accused of misleading Congress about DOJ’s reasons for not releasing full Jeffrey Epstein files.
  • Jamie Raskin: "You want an FBI blindly loyal to Trump...so you can continue your cover up of a massive international sex trafficking ring..." ([22:37])

• Republicans Block Bank Subpoenas: GOP blocks Jamie Raskin’s effort to subpoena banks for Epstein’s financial records (19:42), with only Thomas Massie joining Dems to oppose GOP’s move.

• Political Prosecutions:

  • Trump administration pushing DOJ to indict New York AG Letitia James for mortgage fraud; no evidence found (18:44).
  • Reports of aggressive immigration enforcement and targeted actions against pro-Palestinian activists.

5. Surge in Political Violence

• Former GOP candidate in New Mexico sentenced to 80 years for orchestrating shootings at Democrats’ homes (28:41).
• Hostile, increasingly extreme atmosphere, with governmental institutions going after dissenters and minorities.

6. Militarization of Civilian Life and Attack on DC Autonomy

Special Segment: Interview with Monica Hopkins, ACLU-DC ([35:00] – [67:24])

• 30-Day Federal Takeover: President’s emergency order for federal control over DC’s police and activation of National Guard has expired, but military presence and control linger.
  • Discusses legal mechanisms used and how DC’s lack of statehood makes it uniquely vulnerable.
• Broader Trend: These acts are seen as a "test run" for normalizing military use in civilian cities.
  • "You cannot disconnect what's going on in DC with what's going on in the country." – Monica Hopkins (37:01)
• Chilling effect: Military and federal law enforcement presence changes how residents live, e.g., reduction in Uber Eats deliveries due to fear.
• SCOTUS Allowing Racial Profiling: Emergency orders fast-tracking actions against immigrants, with little explanation or oversight ([43:15]).
• Dangers of Normalization: Hopkins worries about military at polling places in future elections, erosion of public trust, and the gradual loss of democratic norms ([44:58]).

7. Fight Over Free Speech & Definition of Hate Speech

• Ongoing confusion, especially from GOP, conflating hate speech with illegal threats or incitement.
• Monica Hopkins clarifies: Hateful speech is free speech unless it incites violence: "It's the First Amendment for a reason. It's first... Political violence is wrong and has no place in our democracy." (52:39)
• Westboro Baptist Church case as a key example: Even repulsive speech is protected, because clampdowns can be weaponized against all dissent ([53:51]).

8. National Conversation & Need for Civic Action

• Hopkins encourages critical thinking about the government’s motives, vigilance towards attacks on democracy, and broad participation in advocacy: "Knowing your rights...because we do still have rights, and it is important to invoke them..." (45:01)
• Alison Gill calls for listeners to be vocal, share beliefs, organize, and participate in the "national conversation," even when dialogue with extremists may be futile ([62:56]).
• Juror rights and local action are highlighted as bulwarks against authoritarian overreach (64:48).

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Notable Quotes & Moments

• On First Amendment and Censorship:
  • Dana Goldberg: "From the First Amendment's free speech absolutists." (03:25)
  • Monica Hopkins: "If we start chipping away at that, we don't have a democracy. It's the First Amendment for a reason. It's first." (52:39)
• On Weaponization of DOJ: "Trump himself has pressured DOJ leadership to investigate James more aggressively... Ed Martin... and Bill Pulte...pushed...to seek an indictment of James." – Alison Gill ([18:44])
• On Skepticism of Official Narratives: "I still don't have any proof from where these text messages came from. If the FBI gave these...and they're fabricated, this shooter is going to walk free." – Alison Gill (07:26)
• On Importance of Local Action: "The guardrails are there. You don't need to give this guy a crown to prevent rogue prosecutions because you have to go through we the people first." – Alison Gill (65:02)
• Good Trouble: Led by Donkeys projects Trump-Epstein images onto Windsor Castle, calling out hypocrisy and cover-ups (29:47).

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening rundown of headlines: [00:00–01:36]
• Kimmel cancellation, Colbert & media discussion: [01:36–04:59]
• Scrutiny of shooter’s texts: [05:00–10:39]
• Epstein hearing coverage: [10:41–15:11], [22:53–25:04]
• Rep. Jamie Raskin’s stand on FBI/Trump/Epstein: [22:37], [23:39]
• Pro-Palestinian deportation, Navy doctor firing: [25:04–28:31]
• Political violence in New Mexico: [28:41]
• Good Trouble – Led by Donkeys: Trump/Epstein protest: [29:47–31:06]
• ACTION: Nexstar contact info for protest: [31:06]
• Interview with Monica Hopkins, ACLU-DC: [35:00–67:24]
  • Deep dive on militarization, rights, DC autonomy, First Amendment, and hate speech: [35:00–55:21]
• Listener Good News submissions: [67:31–end]

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Conclusion and Tone

The tone remains sharply critical, urgent, and snarky throughout, with genuine concern for authoritarian trends but also unwavering commitment to democracy, activism, and honest reporting. Monica Hopkins provides expert perspective on the legal underpinnings of these authoritarian advances, and the episode ends, as always, with a hopeful look at community action and good news.

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If you missed this episode:

Expect a passionate, clear-eyed look at America’s descent toward authoritarianism with rallying cries for civic vigilance, defense of the First Amendment, and the essential power of collective action—punctuated by biting humor and hope.

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Full transcript and actions referenced available at dailybeanspod.com

Transcript

[Alison Gill]

MSW Media hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Thursday, September 18, 2025. Today, alleged text messages and court documents between Charlie Kirk shooter and his roommate face public scrutiny. Disney has pulled Jimmy Kimmel off the air indefinitely for his remarks about Charlie Kirk. Kash Patel and the fired head of the CDC testified in separate hearings before Congress today. The Trump administration has been pressuring prosecutors to indict Letitia James for mortgage fraud, but there's no evidence an immigration judge has ordered the deportation of Mahmoud Khalil. Republicans have blocked Jamie Raskin's bid to subpoena banks for Epstein records. The Republican Republican ex candidate who fired shots at the homes of Democrats in New Mexico has been sentenced to 80 years in prison. A San Diego Navy doctor was fired after a right wing activist found pronouns in her LinkedIn profile. Minneapolis Police said more than a dozen people were injured in homeless encampment shootings. Democrat XP Lee has won the special election to fill assassinated lawmaker Melissa Hortman's seat in Minnesota. And four people were arrested after images of Donald Trump alongside Jeffrey Epstein were projected on on Windsor Castle on Tuesday. I'm Allison Gill.

[Dana Goldberg]

And I'm Dana Goldberg.

[Alison Gill]

Holy moly. The descent into fascism is fast and furious right now.

[Dana Goldberg]

You've got it. And I keep saying this. The. I'm going to say this. His death is the best thing that could have happened to the MAGA movement. Yeah. And I understand the shooter probably didn't consider that. Obviously I don't think anyone in their right mind goes and does what the shooter did. I may be wrong in that statement. It's just my assumption that there's something that is not connecting or there's the rage or something switched. The bastardization of his death by the MAGA movement exploiting is disgusting. Disgusting.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. And it's leading to shit like this. This is from Variety. This is breaking news. Right. As we basically hit record on the show today, I moved it to the top of the headlines. Disney's ABC is saying it will take Jimmy Kimmel's popular late night show off its schedule indefinitely. Immediately. Yep. After one of the biggest owners of TV stations in the U.S. nextar Media said it was going to preempt airings of the program following remarks that Jimmy Kimmel made about Charlie Kirk. Preempt means replace with another program.

[Dana Goldberg]

And literally all it's. All he said in the monologue that I saw was that the MAGA movement is using this as propaganda.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, he said.

[Dana Goldberg]

Basically alluding to that.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. He said Monday night the MAGA gang was trying to score political points off Kirk's murder. Yeah, that's what he said.

[Dana Goldberg]

And that's the truth. They do not like the truth. Everyone. Their people are getting fired because they are actually quoting Charlie Kirk in his own words, and people are getting fired for it.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. And so now we have Colbert and now we have Kimmel.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

From the First Amendment's free speech absolutists.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. Who owns Comedy Central? I'm just thinking about the Daily show when I'm asking that do you know? Because obviously it's cable television. It's not network.

[Alison Gill]

Probably Comcast Viacom Warner, which is trying to be purchased right now.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. By Skydance, Right.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. Skydance. Who partnered with Paramount.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yep. Oh, boy.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. I hope Jimmy Kimmel has some sort of contract in place that he can. I don't know if they're gonna buy him out.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. But if Jimmy Kimmel's not someone who's just gonna go quietly, I hope he sues the out of them.

[Alison Gill]

No. And I. I hope, like, Stuart and Kimmel and Colbert, like, make their own network.

[Dana Goldberg]

I was thinking that, too. Let's. Why I'm. There's, you know, there's be sponsors. You know, the bills would be paid.

[Alison Gill]

Dude, they would make way more money.

[Dana Goldberg]

I think we'll see what happens because.

[Alison Gill]

Of all of the. The massive, like, exodus of. Of subscriptions from Disney, abc, Paramount, Skydance, all of these. You know, I think the only reason people are still on Paramount is because Colbert is going to be there for 10 more months. And South park runs on Paramount plus, too.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. My goodness.

[Alison Gill]

Or Amazon, but everybody canceled Amazon, So I hope we see target CEO resignation level consequences for this absolute assault on the First Amendment.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, I agree.

[Alison Gill]

Along with lawsuits. And then, you know, I didn't talk about this yesterday on purpose because. And a lot of people were like, why didn't you talk about this? The text messages.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. Boy, that read like a romance novel.

[Alison Gill]

That apparently came out in court documents. But I haven't seen the court documents. And I. And I treated this the same way I treated the Wall Street Journal. Antifascist, transgender ideology bullshit story. Mm. I read that, and I saw the thinly sourced idiocy of, you know. Oh, it was a bulletin. A law enforcement bulletin, according to one source from Kash Patel's FBI. And I was like, well, I'm not sharing this until I see what happens here. And then, of course, as we know, a couple hours later, the ATF was like, yeah, it's bullshit. It's misinformation. It doesn't match what we have. So when I saw those text messages being published, same thing, I was like, this seems weird. What. And why is there this evidence in a court filing? Usually you hold on to that until trial.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. Why are you releasing that? That seems like it's going to taint any sort of jury releasing that stuff now.

[Alison Gill]

And I. Yeah. And I didn't see any. And you usually don't tell the defense what your evidence is, right?

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. All of it doesn't pass the smell test.

[Alison Gill]

So I was like, let me wait and see. And when I woke up this morning inundated by the I've had it podcast ladies and, you know, people on social media, people running analyses of these text messages saying that it's weird, right? Yeah, they. My love, I would. You know, it's just not written like the way a 22 year old writes.

[Dana Goldberg]

The other thing that we notice, at least. Unless this change in the text messages that released. Nowhere in them is there saying that his roommate was trans. He may have been in a gay relationship. If these text messages are even true. But that's what I don't understand why they're still running. Well, I know why they're running with this narrative, but am I misreading that? I didn't see anywhere in that.

[Alison Gill]

I didn't see anything either. And that's why the right wing is mad and saying that the text messages are fake.

[Dana Goldberg]

Right.

[Alison Gill]

Steve Bannon and Candace Owens, they're like, there's something real fishy about this because it doesn't say that there were transgender ideology. It wasn't enough of an attack on the LGBTQ + community for them.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, God. I really. I mean, I'm not a hateful person, but, man, there's hard to find another word. Describe how I feel.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. So I think that the. I still don't have any proof from where these text messages came from. I will say that if the FBI gave these text messages to local law enforcement and local law enforcement actually put them in a court filing and they aren't real and they're fabricated, this shooter is going to walk free.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, yeah.

[Alison Gill]

Unless he's been told to say that these were your text messages and we'll take the death penalty off the table or something insane like that. But then why wouldn't you say that if. If somebody. If a prosecutor came up to me and said, lie and we'll let you off the hook, I would say, take me to court right now because I would win.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, absolutely. And I don't know how, you know, I'M not a lawyer, but I don't know why these wouldn't be screenshots of the actual messages. If they're going to release that much information, why is it just transposed onto a normal piece of paper?

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, and apparently they aren't like text messages like sms, they're discord server things. There's no timestamps.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, interesting. That's convenient.

[Alison Gill]

And so then when I was thinking, well, if somebody tries to make a deal with him, if he just, you know, cops to these text messages, if they were fabricated by the FBI, who's his attorney? How many times have we seen some, you know, a Trump attorney trying to represent people who testify to the January 6th committee.

[Dana Goldberg]

Right.

[Alison Gill]

Or people question who testified or were witnesses in the documents case or in the January 6th case against Trump. Or the lawyers that, you know, represented the survivors for Jeffrey Epstein. Those lawyers were hired by Epstein.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

So I think the story here is that the fact that nobody believes that these text messages are real.

[Dana Goldberg]

I mean, there is a way to confirm those in court, obviously, because the shooter is still alive.

[Alison Gill]

Right.

[Dana Goldberg]

Eventually there's going to be some sort of testimony as whether or not these are actually real test, you know, text messages. And if it comes around that way, it is. I will be shocked. I've never seen a 22 year old boy text with full complete sentences, proper grammar and sounding like a romance novel from a Nigerian prince. I just don't. It's really hard to believe.

[Alison Gill]

And it just so happens to fit the narrative that Trump wants.

[Dana Goldberg]

Exactly. Yeah. And I don't trust this fucking FBI. And we'll get more into that because of that disastrous congressional hearing. My God.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, we will talk about that. But you know, that's why I'm concerned about who his lawyer is. Is his lawyer advising him just go ahead and take the deal and say that you did it? Or does he have an actual lawyer who's representing his best interest? Because there is a well documented history of shitty lawyers giving bad advice.

[Dana Goldberg]

He comes from a conservative family. So if they're foot in the bill, they're not going to hire a liberal. I can't imagine them hiring a really liberal lawyer. They probably don't trust him. Yeah, I know all of this is.

[Alison Gill]

Speculation, of course, and that, but that's why I'm saying the real story here and the reason I'm reporting it now is that nobody trusts this FBI. Yeah, that's a very dangerous place to be.

[Dana Goldberg]

Absolutely.

[Alison Gill]

All right, I wanted to talk just real briefly about some of the highlights because we're going to go over these more in, in the, in the hot notes. But Cash Patel lied to the House Judiciary Committee today. He told them that the reason the Department of Justice hasn't released the Epstein files is because a judge said they couldn't. They went to court and a judge said no, but that's not what the judge said. The judge actually said the Department of Justice can release the 300,000 pages of files that they have. And that's why we're not going to release these 76 pages of stuff that's already public information because of, you know, Rule 60 for, for grand jury secrecy. So he missed. He either lied or he's an idiot. Maybe both. But then Eric Swalwell asked him whether he told Pam Bondi that Trump was in the Epstein files and he lost his mind.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes, he did. Who tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Yes or no?

[Alison Gill]

Why don't you try spelling it out?

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes or no?

[Alison Gill]

Use the Alphabet.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes or no? No. ABC Director, it sounds like you don't want to tell us. Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name was in the Epstein files?

[Alison Gill]

Why don't you try serving your constituency by focusing on reducing violent crime in.

[Dana Goldberg]

This country and the number of pedophiles that are legally harbored in your sanctuary cities in California? I work with you on that regular order, Mr. Chairman.

[Alison Gill]

Belongs to a gentleman from California.

[Dana Goldberg]

Did you tell the Attorney General that Donald Trump's name is in the Epstein files? Question has been asked and answered.

[Monica Hopkins]

You've not answered it.

[Dana Goldberg]

And we will take your evasiveness as a consciousness of guilt. This is, I mean, wow. Can I just point out something real quick? At the beginning of this whole exchange, he said, I have not read the entirety of the Epstein files. And Swalwell said, I'm sorry, you're the head of the FBI and you have not read the entirety of the Epstein files. And then 60 seconds later he says, I've discussed the entirety of the Epstein files with Pam Bondi. How could you have done that if you haven't read the fucking files?

[Alison Gill]

It's full of shit. It's just all a cover up.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh, man.

[Alison Gill]

And then somebody asked him about Dylann Roof and that shooting and he's like, I don't know who that is. Which sounds exactly like Trump saying, I don't know who.

[Dana Goldberg]

And which is also a lie. Or the guy's losing his mind because do you remember the interview on Air Force One when they said, why aren't you lowering the flags? He said, because if the governor asked me to, I would lower him for her. And then suddenly, three weeks later, he doesn't know who this person is. The guy's losing his mind.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah.

[Dana Goldberg]

And he doesn't give a shit. And he's a sociopath. So put those perfect storm together. That's what you've got in the Oval Office.

[Alison Gill]

So there we are with that. And we'll go over more highlights of those. And like I said in the hot notes and Dr. Manera, that's this now fired CDC director RFK Jr. Fired, also testified alongside Dr. Howery in Congress today, basically confirming the reporting that we've already covered here ad nauseam on the daily beans that RFK Jr. Wanted her to rubber stamp his vaccine skeptics board and their findings. And she said, no, I need to see the findings. And he was like, no. Now, every Democrat pretty much voted against her confirmation because she's not. She. She's a vaccine skeptic. But in the testimony today, she's like, look, I'm not. I'm. I'm saying that, you know, the, the CDC recommends vaccines. They don't mandate vaccines. So she's against vaccine mandates, but she's against taking off recommendations for. From the list. Senator Marshall said she shouldn't be mad. She was fired because of her philosophical differences with RFK Jr. Philosophy, like, this is science.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. This isn't an opinion. This is literally what science is. There's proof behind it.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. But there was an election to fill the seat of Melissa Hortman. Speaking of Melissa Hortman.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yes. And I'm so glad this turned out the way it did. I think we knew. But also, it's really hard to just settle into anything these days. So Democrat XP Lee won a special election Tuesday to fill that seat in Minnesota. Minnesota of that top Democratic leader that was assassinated. And we stored a 67.67tie. And basically preserving a power sharing deal that has forced both parties to work together. And if that had gone the other way, it could have been very bad. Lee beat the Republican challenger, by the way, 61 to 39 in a blue district. And I understand that we knew he was going to win, but 69 to 31, you love to see numbers like that. And Rhett, Melissa Hortman, she held that seat until her death in June when it was taken from her.

[Alison Gill]

An assassination. An actual assassination.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. Of a, of an, of a elected political official assassination.

[Alison Gill]

That's what you need to make that charge. And that's why, that's why I'm like, why the FBI is fucking around with these text messages? I guess it's because the FBI is the one, like helping the local law enforcement go through the phones and image of the phones or whatever.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

But I still.

[Dana Goldberg]

It's also how you, how dare you release that stuff so early. And they're just trying to get ahead of it because they fumbled this so fucking bad.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, for real. All right, we got to get to the hot notes, but we're going to take a quick break. Stick around, we'll be right back. Hey, everybody. I first heard about Helix from friends years ago, and I have to admit I was skeptical at first. I'd already been through what seemed like an endless cycle of different mattresses that promised better sleep, but never delivered, never solved the issues I was facing. But it turns out Helix was different and it's been one of the best decisions I've ever made for my health. Before Helix, my Apple watch confirmed what I was already feeling. My nights were full of fragmented sleep cycles, shallow rest. I would fall asleep, but wake up multiple times at night. I was rarely hitting the deep sleep that you need. But by morning, I was stiff and sluggish and not ready to face the day, if I'm being honest. And once I switched to Helix, the data on my Apple watch told a new story. I started seeing longer stretches of deep sleep. Fewer wake ups, more consistent rest, lower resting heart rate. The difference in how I felt was dramatic too. I was no longer dragging myself out of bed in pain or exhausted. Instead, I woke up clear headed, energized, hopped out of bed, ready to take on the day. The upgrade from my old mattress was remarkable. It eliminated overheating. The sagging and constant motion that kept me restless was gone. Back pain that once greeted me every morning faded away and my sleep became steady and restorative. Years later, the mattress is still just as good as day one. The comfort is held up, the support is reliable, and the consistency has improved my everyday life. For me, Helix has been more than an upgrade. It's been a lasting investment in my health and better sleep and recovery. So go to helixsleep.com dailybeans for 25% off site wide. And that's helixsleep.com dailybeans For 25% off site wide. Make sure to enter our show name after checkout so they know we sent you helixsleep.com dailybeans all right, everybody, welcome back. It's time for the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up from abc, top Trump administration officials are pressuring federal prosecutors in Virginia to bring charges against New York Attorney General Letitia James for mortgage fraud despite investigators so far failing to find sufficient evidence supporting such charges. That's according to sources familiar. After a five month investigation, five months investigating a couple of documents and interviews with more than a dozen witnesses, federal prosecutors have so far uncovered no clear evidence that James knowingly made false statements to a financial institution to secure favorable terms on a mortgage for her Virginia home. That's according to multiple sources. Now, Trump himself has pressured the Department of Justice leadership to investigate James more aggressively. And two officials, Ed Martin, that's the wackadag PA is what we call him over on the Unjustified podcast because that's weaponization czar, associate deputy attorney, general, pardon attorney, he's got like seven jobs. He's head of the Weaponization Working group. And Bill Pulte, the director of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, have pushed the U.S. attorney from the Eastern District of Virginia to seek an indictment of James. And when federal prosecution prosecutors recently declined to indict James, pty encouraged Trump to fire Eric Severt, that's the U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of Virginia, and replace him with a prosecutor who would be willing to bring charges against James. Now, you can bet Andy McCabe and I are going to cover this in detail on this weekend's Unjustified podcast.

[Dana Goldberg]

Wonderful. Thank you, Allison. And the Epstein cover up. It continues. This is from Politico. The House Judiciary Committee rejected requests from Democrats to vote on whether to subpoena the CEOs of four major banks. And that was a bid intended to investigate the institution's connections to convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. I'm glad they're starting to use the right adjective to describe Jeffrey Epstein. By the way, the effort failed in a nearly party line vote to table or basically kill the Democratic request to issue the subpoena to Jamie Dimon of JPMorgan Chase, Brian Moynihan of Bank of America, Christian suing of Deutsche bank, and Robin Vince of BNY. The request centered around $1.5 billion worth of suspicious transactions that the bank had reported to authorities. And I don't know if y' all remember, at Deutsche bank, someone's son worked there and it happened to be the son of a Supreme Court justice that just happened to retire during Trump's first term. Are we following?

[Alison Gill]

Wait, remember that video when he walked off the mic and Trump walks up to him and said something that pissed Kennedy off and Kennedy, like, wagged his finger in his face like, don't you talk to me like that you? No, I was like, God, what is it? What are they saying to each other in that video? Ugh.

[Dana Goldberg]

Anyway, I'm not saying. I'm just saying now only Rep. Thomas Massie, who is leading the charge to force a floor vote to compel the Justice Department to release further materials in the Epstein case, joined the Democrats in objecting to the motion to squash the subpoena attempt. Democrats also tried unsuccessfully to subpoena Treasury Secretary Scott Besant and Deputy FBI Director Dan Bongino.

[Alison Gill]

They have questions about his podcast.

[Dana Goldberg]

I know they had questions about his podcast.

[Alison Gill]

All right, next up from the Guardian, Minneapolis police have said over a dozen people have been hurt in two separate shootings at homeless encampments across the city on the same day. The first shooting at a transit station wounded five people and happened in an area that had seen two prior shootings in the past month. Minneapolis Police Chief Brian o' Hara rued the shootings as disturbingly commonplace. Here we are yet again in the aftermath of a mass shooting. This is not normal, he said. The second shooting, which wounded eight, happened just two miles away in a site that has been a topic of controversy in the Minneapolis area. Private landlord Hamoudi Sabri, who has been involved in homeless activism since 2021, has allowed the encampment on his property because he doesn't believe the city is addressing the root cause of homelessness. I gotta say, this is on Brian Kilmeade. Yeah, that's what I think.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

I don't disagree with you should all die be executed by that comment.

[Dana Goldberg]

That comment was horrifying. You're going to get Jimmy Kimmel off the air for not even making a threat.

[Alison Gill]

Yep.

[Dana Goldberg]

And this guy's sitting there saying homeless people should be executed.

[Alison Gill]

Kilmeade still has.

[Dana Goldberg]

Fuck all of this. Yeah. Got a lot of F bombs for y' all today. They're just streaming out. All right, this one's from Politico. Kash Patel's Epstein files problem is not going away. Thank God. Over two days of hearings. And oh, boy, were they contentious. Democrats hammered the FBI director who once advocated for the wholesale release of the files connected to convicted offenders, Jeffrey Epstein. But over the bureau's reluctance to release the full trove. They also accused Patel of seeking to protect Donald Trump from potentially embarrassing references in the files and also giving the short end of the stick to Epstein victims and of refusing to follow all investigative leads. And I quote, now we're seeing one very clear reason why you would want to build a political FBI. The Epstein files this is from House Judiciary Ranking Committee member Jamie Raskin, who we love. And that's what he said on Wednesday. And he went on to say, you want an FBI blindly loyal to Trump and to you as his enforcer so you can continue your cover up of a massive international sex trafficking ring with more than 1,000 victims betraying all of the survivors of the sexual violence. Raskin's comments came on the second of Patel's two day tour of Capitol Hill, which started Tuesday in the Senate Judiciary Committee before heading over to the House's counterpart panel. In both venues, Patel advocated for the agency's priorities, which was just a disgusting display of him. This is the safest this country's ever been in the history of this country.

[Alison Gill]

Well, then get your goddamn troops out of my fucking city.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, yeah. But also, by the way, in the 10 hours of testimony, they were marked by intense and really hostile exchanges with a lot of the democr often related to the Epstein investigation. And his appearance Wednesday was interrupted by Democrats moving to subpoena four major banks. As we talked about earlier in the effort to obtain Epstein's financial records, and we know that that failed by that single vote on Epstein. Patel insisted the FBI is releasing as many files as possible, but is hamstrung by court orders and nearly 20 year old deals struck between the Justice Department and Epstein that have impeded crucial avenues of investigation. He repeatedly noted that the Trump administration had released more Epstein related files than its predecessors. That's because they couldn't be released.

[Alison Gill]

We already had them. They were already public. They were public in 2019.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yep. All of this. And he keeps saying any credible stuff we've released by the law that permits us. He's such bullshitter. Patel heard from Republicans on the Epstein issue too, by the way. Massie, who we talked about, joined the Democrats in pressing Patel to release witness interview summaries during the House Judiciary hearings Wednesday. Senator John Kennedy, who you know we love to hate, said Tuesday the FBI needs to move to release Epstein related records. He said the issue's not going to go away. That's what Kennedy said. I think you're going to have to do more to satisfy the American people's understanding curiosity in that regard. Yeah, he said it is your assertion that these victims aren't credible. This is what Massie asked Patel Wednesday, which was a great question. He said, how can you sit here in front of the Senate and say there are no names? Democrats also pressed Patel over and over again to explain his own personal reversal on the issue as well as the Bureau's ongoing efforts to both disclose Epstein related documents and continue to investigate his sex trafficking ring. Pressed by Jared Moskowitz, who's the Democrat from New York, Patel said he would consider opening an investigation into the Epstein estate over Trump's claim that a suggestive letter in Epstein's 50th birthday book was forged. So that's why he said he's going to open the investigation. He goes, sure, I'll do it. Yeah, I can trust any investigation that this guy's gonna do.

[Alison Gill]

Oh, God, this is, oh, this is so, oh, so fucked up. All right. Yeah. Next up from Politico, an immigration judge in Louisiana. And remember, immigration judges don't work for the judiciary, they work for the executive branch. An immigration judge in Louisiana ordered pro Palestinian activist Mahmoud Khalil, a legal permanent resident of the United States, deported to Syria or Algeria for failing to disclose certain information on his green card application. And that's according to DOC documents filed in federal court Wednesday by his lawyers. Khalil's lawyers suggest in a filing that they intend to appeal the deportation order, but expressed concern that the appeal process will likely be swift and unfavorable. The order from the immigration judge, James Comins, came despite a separate order in Khalil's federal case in New Jersey that blocked his deportation. While that court considers his legal argument that his detention and deportation are unlawful retaliation for his Palestinian advocacy, Khalil's March 9 arrest and subsequent detention in Louisiana was part of the Trump administration's aggressive crackdown on foreign born pro Palestinian academics who are studying or working in the United States legally. Khalil, a former Columbia grad student who helped organize campus protests, was arrested at his Manhattan residence and put into deportation proceedings. And he's not been charged with a crime, FYI on the issue. This is from an expert on Blue Sky. On the issue of Board of Immigration Appeals purges. So if you appeal to the immigration court rather than the New Jersey federal court, here's the current composition of the board by what administration appointed them. Counting temporary members, there's two members on the board appointed by Bush, two appointed by Obama, and 13 appointed by Donald Trump.

[Dana Goldberg]

Wow. Yeah, wow. All right. This next story is from KPBS in San Diego. A San Diego Navy doctor was removed from her leadership position last week after right wing activists began sharing screenshots and of her LinkedIn account on X. Commander Janelle Mara was the medical director of the expeditionary medical facility 150 Bravo in San Diego. According to her Navy biography. Mara, a Navy physician with 21 years of service. Spent most of her career in the San Diego area, splitting time between San Diego Naval Medical center and Camp pendleton. On her LinkedIn account, Mara lists she, her pronouns and her bio. Says she's the, and I quote, navy deputy medical director for transgender Healthcare. Fucking libs of TikTok. She's such a piece of shit. How do you have this much hate in your body? That's an account, by the way, on Twitter that shares anti LGBTQ conspiracies. It tagged Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth when she, quote, tweeted a screenshot of the account saying yikes, and asked Hegseth to look into this. That evening, Hegseth in turn quote, tweeted libs of TikTok writing pronouns updated, she, her fired the rage inside my chest right now, a Navy official with knowledge of the matter told kpbs. Hegseth ordered Mara to be fired. This is the official who did not authorize this comment publicly on the case. Said the official cause for Mara's removal was, and I quote, a loss of trust and confidence in her ability to lead, which is boilerplate rationale used by Navy to justify all manners of firings. Mars social media use is now under investigation. This is what officials said.

[Alison Gill]

Jesus. That's right here in San Diego. Next up from the Times. Remember when we reported on the Republican guy that shot up the homes of Democrats in New Mexico?

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

I have a belated update from the Times. Former Republican candidate for state House seat, New Mexico was sentenced to 80 years in prison on Wednesday for orchestrating a politically motivated shooting spree against four Democratic officials. But all political violence comes from the left. The series of shootings happened in December 2022 and early January 2023, weeks after the candidate, Solomon Pena, lost his race. When Mr. Pena, 42, was arrested in January of 2023, the authorities said he had paid four men cash to shoot at the homes of certain Democratic officials, including a county commissioner and a state senator. No one, thankfully, was injured in those attacks. In March of this year, A jury found Mr. Pena guilty on 13 federal charges, including conspiracy, weapons related charges and inter federally protected activities. Mr. Pena's sentencing brings to an end a closely watched case that had rattled politicians in New Mexico. The shooting spree followed other episodes across the country of politically motivated attacks, including an assault on Nancy Pelosi's husband that fueled concerns about political violence and election conspiracy theories. 80 years.

[Dana Goldberg]

God.

[Alison Gill]

So that's very good news. That's a bright spot in our shitty, shitty time.

[Dana Goldberg]

Every once in a while. That case comes soon you're like, they did the right thing. All right. That's in the segments from the Guardian. The arrest of four men after images of Donald Trump alongside Jeffrey Epstein were projected onto Windsor Castle. And man, was it beautiful. It was on Tuesday was Orwellian and ridiculous. The group behind the protest has told the Guardian the political campaign group Led by Donkeys is what it's called, Led by Donkeys confirmed that it was behind the stunt, which saw several images of the Trump and Epstein projected onto a tower while a sidetracked questioning the relationship between the two men was played on a speaker. This is how you protest, people. A letter the US President allegedly sent to Epstein was also projected onto the Castle along with pictures of Epstein's victims, new clips about the case and police reports. Man, they went all out. The police said in a statement that four adults were arrested on suspicion of malicious communications after an unauthorized projection at Windsor Castle, which they described as public stunt, which I described as hilarious. The four remain in custody. And by the way, that is some fucking good trouble right there. That's why I say this is how you protest.

[Alison Gill]

Can't believe they arrested them.

[Dana Goldberg]

I know. Insane.

[Alison Gill]

I agree. Orwellian and ridiculous. So that's a nice Good Trouble update for our Good Trouble segment today. And I have some more good trouble for you. What are you guys doing? All right, you're Good Trouble mission today, should you choose to accept it, is to email the media contact for nextstar about the firing or the preempting or the canceling of Jimmy Kimmel. You can do that. His name is Gary Whiteman. He is the executive vice president and chief communications officer. He put out a statement about this. He's the one who said, we're going to, you know, we're going to preempt all these episodes. You can reach him at area code 972-373-8800 or G. Whiteman. That's G W E I T M at Nextar. That's N E X S T A R T V. So let them know what you think. And coming up next, I'm going to talk to the director of the ACLU in Washington, D.C. her name is Monica Hopkins. We've had her on the show before. And we're going to talk about this national conversation that we're having right now and the occupation of D.C. among other things. So you definitely don't want to miss this interview. Stick around. We'll be right back. When stress builds up, even simple things can feel overwhelming. And I know we're feeling that a lot these days. And that's why so many people are turning to CBD from CB Distillery. It's clean, it's wonderful, and it's effective way to restore balance and feel like yourself again. I want to thank them for sponsoring this episode and giving this discount to you. You get 25% off your entire [e-mail] by using promo code DAILYBEANS at checkout. One of the first CB Distillery products I tried was their relief stick. And I honestly can't imagine going without it. Now, after a workout or even after a long recording day, I use it on my neck, my shoulders and my knees. And the cooling relief kicks in fast, tension eases and it feels like my body can finally reset. It's so much better than any over the counter option I've used in the past. And I love that it's made to work with my body instead of just making, you know, me mask my symptoms. Nobody wants to do that now. They have a whole range of CBD solutions too, to support stress relief, recovery after exercise, focus and mood. Every formula is made with premium clean ingredients. No fillers, no junk, no artificial anything. Just high quality CBD that delivers the results that you can feel. Imagine being able to power through your day without nagging aches or finishing it without carrying stress in your shoulders. In fact, relax your jaw and drop your shoulders right now. Anyway, that's been my experience and I'm not alone. Over 2 million people already trust CB Distillery and it makes sense. Their products are effective, easy to use, and they're backed by a money back guarantee. So if you're ready for better sleep, less stress and feeling good in your own skin, again, try CBD from CB Distillery. Right now. You can save 25% off your entire purchase. Visit CBDistillery.com and use promo code DailyBeans. That's CBDistillery.com, promo code DailyBeans. Once again, CBDistillery.com, you'll be glad you did. Hey everybody, welcome back. I'm so happy to be checking in again with my friend, executive director of the ACLU in D.C. about what is going on with the occupation of D.C. all of these bills. We know that in the billionaire bailout bill, they defunded D.C. to the tune of $1.1 billion. Sort of putting a boot on the neck of the mayor there with how she can distribute funds for law enforcement and schools and things like that. And you know, the Senate was like, don't worry, we'll pass a separate bill which they did, but then Mike Johnson didn't take it up in the House. And so they're in this very precarious situation. We've got troops and National Guard there. And we're gonna talk today about the implications of all that and some bills in the House that, you know, really also do not help the situation on the ground in dc. So please welcome, like I said, Executive Director of the acl, udc, Monica Hopkins. Hi, Monica, how are you today?

[Dana Goldberg]

Good.

[Monica Hopkins]

Nice to be back.

[Alison Gill]

Alison, it's good to see you again. I wish we should hang out under better circumstances at some point in our lives, but I really, really am so glad that you took the time to come and explain all of this today from a legal perspective, from the expertise at the ACLU in dc. So, I mean, I don't know where you want to start. There's so much going on. But I do know that very recently that 30 day thing expired for the ability to have law enforcement, you know, taken over. But I haven't seen any movement or any change. Has there been any change on the ground? I guess we can start there since that 30 day thing expired. Cause Donald Trump wanted it to go on forever in his truth social post, forever. We're gonna be here. And somebody's like, no, for 30 days you're gonna be here. And he was like, yes, for 30 days we're gonna be there. So maybe start there.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah, yeah. I think it's good to sort of back up and just give a structural authority, kind of oversight about what the 30 days means. And so essentially what happened on August 11 was the president issued two executive orders. One was calling on Section 740 of the home Rule act, which gives the President the authority to engage the Metropolitan Police Department under emergency circumstances for federal purposes for a limited period of time for 30 days. So that is sort of what we're talking about here.

[Alison Gill]

We talked about how Pam Bondi wanted to get rid of the police chief and install their own police chief. And then they went to court and the court's like, you can't do that. You can coordinate with the police chief and have a liaison and do some liaising, do some fascist deliasing, but you certainly can't just take over the Metropolitan Police Department. So she had to rewrite that order, but that it was still for just 30 days.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah. And I think what's interesting about that moment is sort of the testing, right. Like, we cannot sort of disconnect what's going on in D.C. with what is going on in the country. Right. The president has a little bit more authority over DC because we are a federal district. We do not have statehood, although we should wear. Yes. And because of that, you know, he could call on section 740 and then do this like, okay, there are limits, but can we test the limits by saying that the attorney general can install a commissioner who will direct the Metropolitan police, not just have the services, but direct them, which should frighten every other city across the country. So the 30 days has ended, and from what we understand, there is no more emergency, and we haven't seen a new emergency. And so the police should not be in the providing services to the president for an emergency. So that is what we understand to be true, even though the president has sought indefinite extension of an emergency. And that is separate and distinct from the other executive order that came down, which was to call out the National Guard, the D.C. national Guard, which the president has authority over unlike any other state.

[Alison Gill]

Well, Monica, I was told that only Nancy Pelosi can call out the national guard in Washington, D.C. was I misinformed?

[Monica Hopkins]

Well, I mean, on January 6th, that seemed to be the case. And then all of a sudden, you know, President Trump realized that actually the president, because D.C. is not a state, has the authority to call out the National Guard. And he went even farther, you know, calling for National Guard from other states to come to D.C. under the guise of a manufactured emergency to deal with crime in D.C. which was at a low. But in addition to being at a low, crime in cities or jurisdictions is not a federal sort of issue, and it wasn't at an emergency level. It's best dealt with the people closest to the issue who know their communities and know what is going to keep their communities safe.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, we kind of saw that in early community meetings. The communities were like, excuse me, what we are. Hi. We know what we're doing. We know. We understand our community way better than you. And also, you know, you brought up the point. Even Kash Patel on the Hill today and yesterday was saying, it's all gone, crime's gone. We fixed it. President Trump fixed it all. And everything's fine and safe now. And that's why all the troops are now just, you know, picking up trash and laying mulch down and stuff because there's no more crime. But that's kind of, like you said, indicative that the emergency should be over then and you should probably go home.

[Monica Hopkins]

Well, and I think you have to question what is the real motive here. Right. And really, honestly, correlation does not equal causation. So we should Be asking critical questions like why did the military get called out in the first place when there was no emergency? And why are they staying here? The same as why was it called out in Chicago and what is going on? Why are they calling out the military in Memphis? What it is to normalize us seeing military here, you know, and what happens is when there is fear and intimidation, people change their behavior accordingly. So we See People in D.C. changing their behavior in a way that restaurant seatings are down. People that I have talked to, and my own behavior here in D.C. is I don't order from Uber Eats as much as I do. Because we have seen the videos of Uber Eats drivers being pulled off of their mopeds and taken into custody. You know, those things over time become normal. This is. And we have to keep reminding ourselves this is not normal. There is no emergency. And we need to speak out against these things. Not say, not buy into the fact crime. We still have crime in D.C. it is a metropolitan city. We can deal with that crime locally. And we have to question, is it really. Oh, crime is non existent down whatever since this. Or is it just people are not reporting? People are, you know, afraid? Now this is what we have, you know, heard. Is that the trust of. Is it the military? Is it, you know, federal law enforcement? Is it MPD who are doing stops and arrests and, and detaining people and that. That breaks community trust. Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

And you know, you talk about something simple as, you know, chilling your Uber orders. The Supreme Court just ruled on the emergency docket to allow racial profiling based on a low income job or what language you speak or what you look like to be detained by ICE for now during the pendency of that litigation without much explanation, except for, of course, Kavanaugh saying, well, why don't you just file your own separate lawsuit? Which is interesting because he has previously voted against individual lawsuits for federal agents violating fourth amendment rights. So it's so bizarre to me. And we've seen so many judges, including the 4th Circuit, saying it out loud now, people in judicial conferences saying, stop with the emergency docket. Kavanaugh's like, well, why don't we change the name? I don't like the name of the shadow docket. That'll fix it, but they're not giving explanations. Judge Chutkan today or yesterday, I think had to allow refoulement deportation to Ghana because there was no clarity on the due deference to foreign affairs with what this particular administration does. So, you know, the Supreme Court is allowing these things to go Forward. And so that makes it even extra scarier than just being trying to get used to having these troops on the ground. What do you think their final goal is? Is it for us to be cool with there being military stationed at voting at polling places in 2026, or, like, what's the ultimate goal here, do you think?

[Monica Hopkins]

I mean, that is the question on the horizon.

[Alison Gill]

Right.

[Monica Hopkins]

Like, I can't think like them.

[Alison Gill]

I don't have a dark dead heart. So I can't imagine what they're plotting here.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah, I mean, you know, they did create. Well, they would say they didn't create it. The Heritage foundation created, you know, a playbook for all the things we're seeing right now. And so how does this fit in? I think right now, what you're drawing attention to is the importance of watching what is going on right now, questioning what is going on right now, and also not sort of losing sight of the bigger picture because things are flying at us very chaotically. That is a tactic. It's a strategy. And questioning what is the end game. Right. Because I think you can connect with also the redrawing of maps in Texas, in Missouri, there are other things going on beyond just militarization and connecting these dots is very important. And questioning and showing up knowing your rights in this moment, because we do still have rights, and it is important to know them and invoke them at this point. And remembering also, the Supreme Court is but one court. There are thousands of other courts. And as you mentioned, these federal judges are starting to say these things out loud. Right. And so I just keep thinking about the Ben Franklin. Someone supposedly asked Ben Franklin, what did you give us after the Constitution was written? He said, a republic, if you can keep it. We're at the can we keep it?

[Alison Gill]

Point. Yeah, yeah. And I think I've, you know, I've, I've seen you mention, and you and I have talked offline about the fact that in D.C. it seems like. Well, it doesn't seem like what they are doing is taking away the rights of the people by, first of all, denying statehood, denying representation. So they're being taxed without representation. I think the Tea Party might have a problem with that, but they don't seem to anymore now that they're the Freedom Caucus. I was like, we threw tea in a harbor. It was a whole thing, something about.

[Monica Hopkins]

The beginning of our nation, like democracy, something, something tariffs.

[Alison Gill]

I can't quite, I can't put my finger on it. But, you know, talking about what's going on in D.C. is kind of this Trump takeover over of the politics there. And I know that you mentioned a couple of bills that are in the works to sort of take that over federally. Talk about that.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah. So for your listeners who don't know, because D.C. is not a state, we have limited self governance and home rule. We pass our own laws, we raise our own taxes, it is our money. But Congress still has certain oversight powers and they can exercise those oversight powers in three sort of different ways. Number one, they can directly legislate on dc. Number two is that as opposed to states where bills go up to the governor and the governor either signs it into law, doesn't sign it, and it still goes into law, or vetoes it. For us here in dc, we have to transmit our laws to Congress and Congress has the right to issue what are called disapproval resolutions to overturn our laws. That would be like a state legislature in Idaho having their laws overturned by the state legislature in Wyoming. And you know, it's ridiculous to contemplate. And then the third way, and a lot of people saw this was DC's budget, you know, is reviewed by Congress and DC and the federal government can put in the, a federal budget, what are called riders in the appropriations process to tell DC how we can or cannot spend our money. So that like all of those are important to understand. And in this moment we are seeing a huge increase in the number of riders that are being suggested on the appropriations. We are seeing a huge slew of, you know, attacks on the independence of our locally elected officials, the laws we have passed, the tax on our judiciary, you know, limiting our local funds, everything from, you know, bills that address crime to. It would seem like a silly thing to have an appropriations rider that would not allow us to engage in automated traffic enforcement. But what that does is make DC lose sort of $180 million in revenue. So these are purposeful. And what is interesting to me is sort of how you can think about this as we have limited self governance and these are all the ways you can chip away to actually sort of take more control in the occupation of dc. And why people should look at what is being done in D.C. as a way to test how you start normalizing some of these things in the greater sort of expanse.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, I mean, these are trial balloons, right? These are pushing the envelope. He's doing it with mass deportation, he's doing it with what's happening in dc, he's doing it with what's happening in other cities. And I want to just shift gears here because I have two More questions. I know we're running out of time. I could talk to you forever. But I want to ask you about Pam Bondi saying that hate speech, you know, is against the First Amendment. And we will prosecute you for your. For your hate speech, which she's had to walk back since then. I guess maybe somebody whispered in her ear about all the hate speech that the Republican Party engages in. But this is an interesting thing, because I know a lot of people on the left have said and have asserted that hate speech is not free speech, but it is. And so when the right wing wants to use it differently, we have to sort of reconcile that because it is actually free speech.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah. I mean, I think this is sort of like the fundamental principle that is so important to our democracy. Right. And questioning exactly what is going on here. Political violence is wrong and has no place in our democracy. Right. I think that is the fundamental issue at play. You know, that is what is actually going on. It is the context of someone's speech and the ability to have to speak freely about your positions, what your political ideology, what you believe that the government should or shouldn't do. If we start chipping away at that, we don't have a democracy. It's the First Amendment for a reason. It's first. And so what is at play here really is political violence.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. Yeah. I agree 100%. Because it is illegal to incite violence.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

It is illegal to make violent threats. Right. Those are against the law. But to just say I hate a specific kind of people, that is free speech. And I tell you exactly when it dawned on me, when I had that aha moment, it was the Westboro Baptist Church Supreme Court case where the Supreme Court said that the Westboro Baptist Church is allowed to say God hates the F word at Marine funeral for funerals or whatever. Just despicable speech. And in my core, I was like, that's awful that that's legal, but that's awful. But, man, it has to be. Yeah. If. If I want to be able to say something back. Yeah. About it. Like, you can't draw those lines. Right. Until we talk about actually breaking the law with incitation or whatever.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

And that sunk into me like a. I just had this knot in my stomach for days. Like, that's legal. Ugh. It has to be. Like, it was so hard. It was hard.

[Monica Hopkins]

And at the beginning of this question, you did the. I call it the shoe on the other foot. Right. So it's like in the Westboro Baptist Church, you know, this is their. You Know, belief, and they want to espouse their belief, and they want to convince people of their belief. We don't. You know, you might not like that belief.

[Alison Gill]

I hate it.

[Monica Hopkins]

But imagine, you know, and you just did the exercise, right? Like, imagine if it was, you know, Alison Gill versus, you know, and people were trying to silence you.

[Dana Goldberg]

Right.

[Alison Gill]

Me saying me with a sign saying Trump is a fascist. Yeah. At his funeral, for example.

[Monica Hopkins]

Exactly. Right.

[Alison Gill]

Oh, a lot of people would find that horrible and awful and distasteful, but that is free speech.

[Monica Hopkins]

And those are like, we have to be able to agree on those core principles that stand no matter who is in office, and then really not maximalize these issues to be like, oh, it's about speech. This is about political violence. The plot to kidnap Gretchen Whitmer, the shooting of Melissa Hortman. Justice John Roberts calling attention to the uptick in targeted violence, threats and intimidation. All of this is actually.

[Alison Gill]

He did that to himself.

[Monica Hopkins]

Well, and if you see, right, like, when this happens and we don't call it for what it is, that it is unacceptable, that it is wrong, that it has no place in our democracy, what goes on is people are like, it's about the speech. And, oh, if I say what I believe, this might be an outcome that's a chilling effect on speech. So we have to say, like, what is really going on here? And that this is not acceptable no matter what. And you would think that we could all get together on that.

[Alison Gill]

Well, you have to, like, wonder, like, where at what point do you fix it with the speech? Like, if you had carry signs that say God hates the F word, you are. You are going to make a bunch. You are going to endanger the LGBTQ + community. And so where is the intervention? It can't be at the speech. It has to be at the violence. I mean, that's really the only thing. Or maybe somewhere before there, I don't know. But legally speaking, it's because I'm here saying, we have to stop this. But how do we do it if we can't curtail speech? Because that could be turned around on us and curtail our speech, which is actually being done right now.

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah.

[Alison Gill]

You know, this is the last thing I wanted to get to is the right is exploiting the death of Charlie Kirk to declare Democrats and our speech heroism. And I imagine they're doing that so they can, you know, enact emergency powers to. You know, we have people like Stephen Miller saying we're going to suspend habeas corpus. And I'm like, well, can I then at some point be detained for being a liberal for my speech without due process by the new 10,000 strong Gestapo ice army that he's building? What does that lead to? And so that is why the speech part I think is so important to protect. So I don't know. Where do you think the intervention happens?

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah, I mean, I think this is one of those things of asking the questions, right? Like the government may be able to intervene in certain ways, but I really think like this is sort of, this government is for the people. And with the, like, we are giving power to this. And so, you know, I was thinking about this in the way of Elie Wiesel, the Holocaust survivor who wrote Man's Search for Meaning had this quote that says, you know, between the, between the stimulus and response and response, there is a space and in that space is our power to respond. And you know, demanding more of that space. You see sort of people on the right and the left, you know, saying, wait a second, like this is a tragedy. Let's call like this is a tragedy. It should. Political violence is a tragedy. Like it is a tragedy for our democracy also. And the response is not to just very swiftly curtail speech. Point fingers, do all of this stuff which has been escalating.

[Alison Gill]

That's what they're doing on the behalf.

[Monica Hopkins]

But, but do you know, if that's what they're doing on one side, is the response on the other side to do the same thing? Right. And I think this is the moment, this is the space in which hard questions need to be asked about we.

[Alison Gill]

The people, hash it out.

[Monica Hopkins]

We the people, right? Like there has to be a space in which we have hard conversations that we make vehemently disagree. But can we agree on one thing, that the First Amendment, the ability to speak and redress our government is fundamental to our democracy. And then just call it like if we can't agree on that, do we really want a democracy? And that's for all sides, right?

[Alison Gill]

I'm worried that we can't agree on that. I don't think there's a coming together with certain people on that.

[Monica Hopkins]

But, but I think that with certain people, right? Like I, I and I think we focus on the extremes, right? And unfortunately there are some extremes who have a lot of power.

[Alison Gill]

Oh, I don't know, I feel like that in general, the maga, the entire MAGA party, the whole Republican party now is part of this. And you know, I know I can hear it now. A lot of people would say to me, I not going to negotiate with the fascists because they aren't going to budge.

[Monica Hopkins]

So I would challenge. I would challenge that because I think that's where the extremes come in.

[Alison Gill]

Right.

[Monica Hopkins]

Like, I do think that, you know, the harder conversations are what happens when the farmers in the Midwest are like, wait a second, I didn't vote for.

[Alison Gill]

This, or, I can't sell soybeans to China anymore. I'm going to go broke.

[Monica Hopkins]

Or the people who are like, wait a second, I thought Trump was only going to get rid of the criminal immigrants. Right. And they realize they make a mistake. Do we then say, well, you voted.

[Alison Gill]

For children, and I see what you're saying.

[Monica Hopkins]

Do we take a moment and say, okay, we may disagree on a lot of things, but in this moment, like, can we at least start having the conversation and we lose sight of that and our responsibility for that? Because I do think that there are people who, you know, really still do believe and we have not tried to see each other. And they also are the folks who don't necessarily just want to annihilate people. I just don't think, you know, you can.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. And I would say, I would even say, I would even go, like, even before the conversation for the intervention, to just be loud about your beliefs and speak out about what you believe in. Because I can tell you there are a ton of people who are not going to engage in conversation with people who don't think that they should exist. There are people who are not going to engage in those conversations, and I wouldn't expect them to. But then if the conversation is a step too far, which I think it is for a lot of people, and reasonably so, then just get your voice out and get your beliefs heard and make noise about it so that it's out there. I think when we talk about a conversation, it doesn't have to be with the person. It can be with the great, you know, the body politic at large. The conversation being, here's our opinion, here's what we think. We can get together, we can hold up signs, we can do rallies, we can have no Kings rallies, we can make our voices heard, we can call our representatives, and we can. That is having a conversation. It's just having a national conversation. Because I would never ask my trans friends to sit down with a farmer in Iowa who's mad about his soybeans and try to have a reasonable conversation, because that person might not want my friend to exist at all. So I think that when we think about the idea of having a conversation, a national conversation, that can simply include making your voice heard.

[Monica Hopkins]

And we're seeing it right. Like here in D.C. thousands of people march to make their voice heard.

[Alison Gill]

Sandwich guy.

[Monica Hopkins]

I mean, sandwich guy. Right. Like also sandwich guy and others have shown, you know, that people should understand too, their role, you know, as a juror in this country.

[Alison Gill]

I did a whole segment on that. I'm like, we, you still have to come through us. We're the Federal grand jury Emmer Effer, and you got to get through us first. There's a power in that.

[Monica Hopkins]

The bulwark against tyranny which was brought.

[Alison Gill]

Up in the immunity arguments by Justice Sotomayor. She's like, we don't need immunity. We have guardrails against rogue prosecutors, the Federal grand jury, the Pettit jury, pre trial motions, convictions, appeals on convictions, multiple courts. The guardrails are there. You don't need to give this guy a crown to prevent rogue prosecutions because you have to go through we the people first. So, yeah, I just, I thought that that was an interesting thing, that now the rogue prosecutors are very mad about those very guardrails that they argued against in there to get immunity. And John Roberts being like, I never thought the leopards would eat my judiciary is just bonkers. But I ate up so much of your time. I appreciate you coming on today and talking about this. We're going to keep an eye on this. We're going to keep an eye on the amazing work that the ACLU and D.C. is doing to protect our freedom of speech, protect our First Amendment rights, to protect federal workers abilities to say what they want when they're not at work under the First Amendment. And if anybody is able to help support the work of the ACLU in dc, it's so critical right now and there's so much work to do, more than ever. So you can head to the ACL UDC's website to help out there. Is there any final words you want to say, Monica, before we let you go?

[Monica Hopkins]

Yeah, yeah. I think if people are heading over to our website and thank you for the support. You can also head over to our Immigrants Rights and Resources Hub, our LGBT Resource Hub, and our Know youw Rights page, which has a plethora of information in this moment that about your rights, resources you can find to help your neighbors. Really important information that we want to provide to people. And they can sort of help their communities as well.

[Alison Gill]

Yes. And keep providing it. Even though this administration says they're going to go after you and lock you up for telling people what their rights are. My goodness. Let's check in again soon. And I really appreciate your time. Thank you so much for joining us. And again, check out all of the information and resources that the ACL UDC provider provides. Monica Hopkins, it's been great to talk to you.

[Monica Hopkins]

Great to talk to you again.

[Alison Gill]

Alyson, Everybody, stick around. We'll be right back with the good news. Everybody, welcome back. It's time for the good news.

[Dana Goldberg]

Good news everyone.

[Alison Gill]

Then good news, everyone. Good news, good news. And we really, really, really need your good news. If any good thing has happened to you, big or small, ever in the history of the universe, please send it to us. Maybe you've got some historical good news you'd like to share with us.

[Dana Goldberg]

We'll take any case this point.

[Alison Gill]

Maybe, maybe something good's happening on another planet in a parallel universe. Let us know about it. Maybe you have a shout out to a loved one or yourself or a small business in your area or a non profit you want to showcase. We would love to hear about that. And shout outs about government programs that have helped you or a loved one are always welcome to. And all you got to do to get your stuff read on the air is pay your pod pet tariff, which means just attach a picture. It doesn't. It doesn't matter what it is.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, we'll take anything at this point seriously.

[Alison Gill]

It can be your pet. We'll try to guess the breeds in your shelter pup. If you want, you can send an adoptable pet in your area. You can grab any animal photo off the Internet. You can include family pictures, baby photos, awkward family pictures. We love those. Pictures of your happy place. Maybe a nice sunset, pictures of a rally you've attended recently. Maybe your favorite signs. Maybe a photo of you and your pals having a big postcard writing party. Love those. Anything really. Just send it all to [e-mail] and click on contact. Our first submission is from Jason. Pronouns he and him. This is a shout out to my wonderful wife Amy. I love spouse shout outs. On September 20th of 1999 we met in an AOL chat room. Neither of us were there to meet someone within six weeks of that first chat. I took a flight to meet her in person in a few months and my airline miles. A few months and many airline miles later, I relocated from Pennsylvania to Wisconsin and moved in with her and her four year old son. And we've now been together for 26 years.

[Dana Goldberg]

Oh my God, I love that she.

[Alison Gill]

Makes me a better person and father. We've raised two great kids and many furry family members. We make each other laugh, lift each other up in the hard times and support our kids to be the best versions of themselves. She's my best friend. We don't know what the future holds for this society, but we know that we'll face it together. I love that for my pod put tariff. I know. Right, here's our fluffy boy, Bailey, nicknamed Bailey Beans, which is usually sung to your theme song. Bailey Beans, Bailey Beans. Here he is, looking very shocked. About to be compared to fascism. Oh, look. Oh, he's reading Lessons from Cats for surviving fascism.

[Dana Goldberg]

Super cute, Brittle star.

[Alison Gill]

What a beautiful baby. Thank you.

[Dana Goldberg]

All right, next up, Amy P. Pronouns not given. Hi, AG and dg. I would like to give a loving shout out and my birthday wish to my husband of 12 years, Tony, who turns 48 on September 20th. He's been a faithful listener of AG and all her good works from the beginning. He nudged me to listen to the Daily Beans a few years ago. He thought being a hilarious perimenopausal woman myself, I might be appreciative and I am a daily staple to start my workday and get me through it sometimes. Now Tony is one of a kind, amazing person who I am so lucky to be with and I am more in love with him today than we first met 18 years ago. He's so smart, strong, hard working. He deserves this shout out and so much more. He single handedly supported me through the sickness and death of my father, getting my degree while working full time job and remodeling our home all at the same time during COVID Oh my gosh. Yeah, I can't imagine doing life without him. He brings laughter and love to my life in ways that I could never have imagined and he compliments all my faults with goodness. We often joke that with all our good traits and traits that make us assholes, between us we make one pretty decent human being. Did I mention he is a nature and animal enthusiast as well as the most amazing dog dad, our baby girl, Pug Vega. We added Vega to our little crew of weirdos four years ago and he takes the best and sweetest care of her. They are two peas in a pod and I love watching them run around our yard together. Thank you for listening to me gush. For the good work you do and for the good work you do. I've been ap. That's super cute by the way. Nice sign off pictures. Tony and me, Tony, Ms. V. Vega and her leaf. And you two are just a lovely, lovely couple.

[Alison Gill]

Really, really beautiful couple.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah, that plugs adorbs. Oh good.

[Alison Gill]

Look at her and her leaf. Oh, that's amazing. Great shout out. All right, next up from Anonymous. So we got two spouse shout outs today. I love it. Anonymous pronoun she and her hi to our beloved Queenie beanies from blue St. Louis in a bright red Missouri. First time writer, longtime listener. Here's my little bit of good news. Last month, for the first time since becoming a mom 13 years ago, I found myself having six hours a day, five days a week of time without any kids around. My youngest of four just started kindergarten and I'm finally able to take a little bit of time to do things that fill my own cup and put some good works out into the universe. I realized a great way to do that would be by volunteering at my local animal shelter. So now I spend a few hours a week walking dogs there, which is just what they and I needed for podpet tariff. I'm sending you the inimitable Cucumber. She's weaned her pups and is ready to live her best life. But even though the Animal Rescue center is a great place, it's not where anybody wants to live forever. Cucumber has the most beautiful shiny brindle coat and wants to spend her days snuggled up at your side. Walks are okay, but smiling and snuggles are even better. The same with me, by the way. I'm Walks are okay, but I'm attaching a link to Cucumber's adoption profile and hope that this message will help find her her forever home. Thanks for all that you do. Much love, Anonymous. This is a beautiful baby girl is so sweet. Look at that face and congrats on the new time. And I love that you're walking dogs. It's so great to volunteer at your animal shelter. If you're looking for a way to fill the time that it's not doom scrolling, I highly recommend it.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. All right. This is from Neil. No pronouns given. Hey Beans Queens. I've been meaning to send you a good news submission for weeks now. So I've got like 14 things going on all at once. First, following up a good news submission from yesterday, I was eating lunch at the shopping center where Seven Bites is at when I heard the good news story backstory from the submission. After Florida wrote new laws to literally ban rainbows from being painted on pavement here in Orlando, Seven Bites owner offered up 49 parking stalls to be painted in memory of the 49 people lost that tragic day. Since I was so close, I couldn't resist but to stop by and check it out. They were closed today, but I've attached some photos. Oh. Of the place and some of the current artwork in the stalls. I've been there half a dozen times and the food's amazing. Made from scratch. Everything, including a massive dessert bar. And to top it off, they have a Michelin star. Wow. Oh, I gotta go to Seven Bites. Man. If you're anywhere near Orlando, let's go support this place. The lady who owns the place gets another star for being a local hero. On another note, I recently was on a work trip to St. Croix, US Virgin Islands, doing some civil engineering for some schools and hospitals out there. Friday before my flight back, I woke up super early and drove to the east side of the territory to watch the sunrise. During that time, it struck me that being at the easternmost point of the United States, I was literally the first American to watch the sunrise that day. First of 300 million people. Such a unique opportunity if you're ever there. It's a must just for that fact alone and I'll never forget that moment. A few pictures and the monument out there were attached. Finally, for my taxes, I took my wife and daughter to what I would deem as the largest collection of vehicles in the country. It's near the tourist area in Orlando on I drive, I think at the north end of the strip and an indoor attraction called Desertland. It's fucking amazing. There are over 2000 cars valued at over $200 million. Very strategically placed by Themer era Link below. It's unreal. I would go on for days. And they also have a James Bond dedicated museum with actual movie items and cars and planes. Okay, I need to stop. Shitty part is the owner, Michael Deser is a developer who has built many Trump hotels. It wasn't until the end that we came across a presidential vehicle with this ridiculous looking orange faced turd sitting in the back. Thus my bird watching photo. And there's a link to this Desertland park. So people like to go see the cars.

[Alison Gill]

You can and you can flip off Trump at the end.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. As always, you're the best at what you do. Keep being the voice of the people. Look at all these photos. Oh, look at these parking stalls. This makes me so happy.

[Alison Gill]

These are really good.

[Dana Goldberg]

I also love that people are painting them in a way that if you park correctly that the tires aren't going to be erasing them. Maybe a little bit on the turn, but it looks like that. I feel like that looks intentional.

[Alison Gill]

I love it.

[Dana Goldberg]

Yeah. This is so good. Thanks for sharing that with us.

[Alison Gill]

That's incredible. Great submission. All right, next up from Jen. She her hello, lovely legumes. Sharing another dispatch from the island of New Orleans. As you may know, we're on Trump's shortlist for sending in the National Guard. Like the others he has targeted, we're a heavily blue, 85% blue city with a black Democratic mayor. We've also had historic drop in violent crime. Unfortunately, our state has a Trump stand for governor who welcomes the guard and says our streets are like war zones. Stones. I'm not sure what streets he's referring to unless it's our potholes which could use some attention. The citizens of New Orleans do not want to be occupied. Yesterday I attended a beautiful protest march in the streets of the French Quarter. It was wonderful to march and yell in a diverse group of compassionate people and to see folks come out of bars and restaurants to show support. At one point during rally speeches, a rainbow even appeared over the Mississippi River. It was all good energy booster. And after a particularly dark weekend, I've shared a couple photos as well as one of the house I drive past every day. Thanks for all you do every day. Oh, look at this. Immigrants make America great.

[Dana Goldberg]

I love that.

[Alison Gill]

And resist. Oh, beautiful, beautiful protest. Wonderful photos. Great, great, great, good news submissions. Thank you so much. Please send all your good news into it.

[Dana Goldberg]

It is that palate cleanser we need at the end, man. Love it.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah. Now I'm still gonna go back and roil in my juices about Jimmy Kimmel. Oh, yeah, I gotta go find out what he's saying. If he's on. Did he, did he make a sub stack? Is he posting videos? I gotta go find out what he's saying about this and I'm gonna go do that right now. And thank you all for listening and you know, really, we really appreciate you. Do you have any final thoughts, my friend?

[Dana Goldberg]

No, you know, I shouldn't say no. I'm just sending love, man. Things are so heavy. Be kind to yourself, Be kind to the people that you care about and just make sure you find those little moments of beauty in the day because we all need them.

[Alison Gill]

Yeah, please do microdose that hope. Until tomorrow, I've been ag, but I have other things to say before that. Until tomorrow, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take of care care of your framily. Now, I've been AG and I've been DG and them's the Beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Alison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information Please visit msw media.com com msw media.