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The Daily Beans
Wisconsin Victory (feat. Joyce Vance)
01:00:55
Wednesday, April 2nd, 2025 Today, possible results in the Wisconsin and Florida elections; Senator Cory Booker takes to the Senate floor to disrupt business as usual; Mike Waltz used GMAIL to discuss national defense information; Senator Adam Schiff says he will put an indefinite hold on the confirmation of Ed Martin as D.C. US Attorney; multiple plaintiffs have filed suit to block Trump’s voter suppression executive order; internal fallout has paused the firing of 10000 Health and Human Services employees; the Trump administration has admitted that it deported a Maryland father to CECOT over an administrative error; Senator Gallego says he will hold up Trump’s VA nominees to protest cuts to the VA workforce; the Trump administration has cut millions of dollars from Planned Parenthood; DOGE is trying to steal a $500M building; and Allison delivers your Good News.
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Transcript51 lines
- [00:00]
Alison Gill
MSW Media hello and welcome to the Daily beans for Wednesday, April 2, 2025. Today we have possible results in the Wisconsin and Florida elections. Senator Cory Booker has taken to the Senate floor to disrupt business as usual. Mike Waltz used Gmail to discuss national defense information. Senator Adam Schiff says he will put an indefinite hold on the confirmation of ed Martin as D.C. u.S. Attorney. Multiple plaintiffs have filed suit to block Trump's voter suppression executive order. Internal fallout has paused the firing of 10,000 health and human service employees. The Trump administration has admitted that it deported a Maryland father to seekot over an administrative error. Senator Gallego says he will hold up Trump's VA nominees to protest cuts to the VA workforce. The Trump administration has cut millions of dollars from planned parenthood and Doge is trying to steal a $500 million building. I'm your host, Alison Gill. Hey, everybody, happy Wednesday. It's the taint of the week and there are elections in Wisconsin right now. And if we get some results in time to air this episode, patrons probably won't get it early, but if we get it in time to air it on Wednesday morning, we will tell you about that right now. Breaking news, everyone. Breaking news. And joining me to break this news is my good friend, Harry Dunn. Harry, what's up, ag?
- [01:46]
Harry Dunn
What's up? I am over the moon, ecstatic.
- [01:49]
Alison Gill
Like, my God.
- [01:52]
Harry Dunn
Okay, this is great news here.
- [01:54]
Alison Gill
This is so first we can report. NBC has projected and decision desk have projected that Susan Crawford has won the Wisconsin Supreme Court race. And so I, you know, we're dropping this update in both cleanup on aisle 45 and the beans. But I wanted to say, hey Beans listeners, we got Harry Dunn here. Hey, Beans, you have been working so hard on this election.
- [02:17]
Harry Dunn
Man, I've been out there four times since January and you know, it was just more intense and intense each time I went out there. The energy on the ground was so palpable, you could feel it from the first time I went out there all the way up until last week when I was on there with Mandela Barnes and Sherrod Brown. But man, what, what energy on the ground. Just watching the results, you know, come in in real time and just seeing the margins. I mean, this wasn't, it doesn't appear to, it's going to be a two or three point race. I mean, she's up in the double digits and you know, he'll start getting more, you know, narrowing the gap as the Republicans counties come in. But I mean this, this sends a message right here. I mean, what you think?
- [03:04]
Alison Gill
Yeah, No, I, it definitely sends a huge message. We've been talking about this message and wondering what it was gonna be like leading up to this. And we'll talk about that message in a second. We're only gonna be on here for like five minutes with this update. I also wanna report that the superintendent of public schools election in Wisconsin right now the liberal underly is winning against the school voucher lady Brittany Kinser by a small margin. Though that race has not been called yet and called voter ID requirements in Wisconsin, that has passed. It was already a law but now they're enshrining voter ID requirements into the Constitution, making it a little harder to overturn. So I wanted to go over that and I also wanted to touch on the fact that we lost both Florida House seats. But, but these are 30 point red counties and we lost them by 10 or 15 points tops. And that has got Republicans shaking in their boots because if you think about all of the swing districts coming in the midterms that are 5 point Republican, 7 point Republican, 10 point Repub, though that is, this does not bode well for Republicans. What happened in Florida tonight. And I just wanted to take a quick minute to say thank you to Florida Democrats for all of the work you put in.
- [04:11]
Harry Dunn
They bust their ass.
- [04:13]
Alison Gill
It was not for nothing. It is so important that we were able to close the gap this much. Such incredible work. I'm so super proud of our friends in Florida.
- [04:21]
Harry Dunn
Yeah, they answered the call there like you said. A lot of people just going to look at that initially and just see, oh we lost Florida, but they don't know that, you know, that seat was won by Republicans by 30 points like you said. And to close the gap 20 points like you said. When you start talking about the margins in these close states. Florida's not a swing state, but let's start talking about that in Wisconsin and in Nevada and Arizona. And as those margins get closer, you know it's listen, this is a message. This is a message and listen, a lot of people may hang their head but paying attention to the bigger thing, listen, change is incremental and I mean that's a hell of an increment to improve in four months. In four months from November, number to losing by 30, to losing by 10. Now you talk about improvement, but we can't stop. We got to keep our foot on the gas. The momentum is on our side all the way up until 20, 26 and beyond. We have to keep the put the foot on the gas, on the accelerator, all gas, no brakes, you know.
- [05:25]
Alison Gill
Yes, agreed. And. And, you know, coming back to Wisconsin as we. As we close out this breaking news segment for the cleanup on all 45 Daily Beans podcasts, you know, Crawford was outperforming Biden's margins from 2020 when, you know, and. And that was important. And Schimmel was underperforming in, like, the wow. Counties, like, hats off to Democrats in the wild counties, because you really closed the gap there, too. And this is super significant. It's important. But the biggest important message, you and I have been talking about it for weeks and weeks now is fuck Elon Musk.
- [06:04]
Harry Dunn
Fuck Elon Musk.
- [06:05]
Alison Gill
You cannot buy us off, you piece of shit.
- [06:09]
Harry Dunn
Yeah, and you know what? It's unfortunate that we didn't realize that in November. Listen, I am. I am pissed off at the world. I'm pissed off at America for failing me and us on November 5th. But you can't stay there. And that's why it's important. That's why, like I said in the beginning of January, I hit the road and said, how can we make. How can we continue to fight? And listen, we have to keep this energy, y'all. Like, you know, we have to keep their government governor races later in the year 2025, and obviously, the midterms will be here before you know it. So you listen, do a victory lap real quick. Pump your fists, you know, put your. Your tweets out your. Your post on Blue sky, you know, big old high fives all around. Drink your bourbon like I'm doing. Alice to kicker firm right now.
- [06:54]
Alison Gill
Straight out of the Waterford decanter.
- [06:56]
Harry Dunn
My decanter. You know, I'm celebrating. But you know what? We get back to work. I'm headed. I'm hitting the road. Got a flight tomorrow, headed out to Nevada to get in some good trouble out there. So we got work to do, y'all. It doesn't stop. Let's enjoy this, and let's remember why we're here now. We took our eyes off the prize, and we cannot do that anymore.
- [07:15]
Alison Gill
Huge shot in the arm for Democrats. And speaking of good trouble, just another thing. Hats off to Cory Booker for breaking the record.
- [07:21]
Harry Dunn
Cory Booker, my God.
- [07:23]
Alison Gill
Burying Strom Thurmond deeper in the ground today, that racist pos. And what an incredible, beautiful moment. We talked about that a minute ago in another breaking update, but a great day all around, and I think that this is going to help carry us forward to do the good work and do the good trouble. Harry, thank you so much for all the work you did in Wisconsin. It paid off, my friend.
- [07:43]
Harry Dunn
Thank you, my friend. Thank you. And you're doing the work, too. Like that. That empty chair that you did was fantastic. Like, you go, girl.
- [07:50]
Alison Gill
Thanks, man. All right, everybody, now back to your regularly scheduled program. So hopefully maybe right then you heard some results. And we can talk about that more extensively on the next episode. Also, Cory Booker, as I'm sitting here recording this, we are one hour away, exactly one hour away from Cory Booker breaking Strom Thurman's record, by the way, who was arguing for segregation in 1957 for the longest Senate floor speech in history. I love that he's doing this. And I'm going to be talking with Joyce Vance, my guest today, later in the show about that and her substack and her new book coming out and how we can find and celebrate heroes among us. Oh, and by the way, if he breaks the record, you'll hear about it right now. Breaking news. He did it. He did it. Senator Cory Booker has broken the record for the longest Senate floor speech, beating racist Strom Thurman's 1957 speech calling for segregation, trying to maintain segregation, 24 hours and 18 minutes. He's still going. And he said, I'm not here because of Strom Thurman's speech. I'm here despite his speech. So thank you, Senator Cory Booker, everybody. Write in, call, tweet, blue sky, whatever it is you do. Senator Cory Booker, you're a real one.
- [09:14]
Harry Dunn
Our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor, we need that now from all Americans. This is a moral moment. It's not left or right. It's right or wrong. It's getting good trouble, my friend. Madam President, I yield the floor.
- [09:38]
Alison Gill
And also, Arizona Senator Ruben Gallego announced Tuesday he's going to block confirmation of top leaders at the Department of Veterans affairs, raising the stakes in Democrats bid to get the Trump administration to back off their plans to cut jobs from the VA, 83,000 in all. Now Gallego, who's a Democrat and a Marine Corps veteran, made the announcement just hours before the Senate Committee on Veterans affairs was scheduled to hear testimony from three nominees for the VA who are military veterans themselves. And also, Adam Schiff is going to object to a unanimous consent for the confirmation of Ed Martin as the U.S. attorney in the District of Columbia. Andy McCabe and I have been talking about him a lot over on the Unjustified podcast, and we'll discuss this more in detail on this weekend's episode. All right, everybody, we have a lot of news to get to. It's time for the hot notes. Hot notes. All right, first up from the Post. Members of President Donald Trump's National Security Council, including White House National Security Advisor Mike Waltz, have conducted government business over personal Gmail accounts. And that's according to documents viewed by the Washington Post. And interviews with three U.S. officials. Makes me think those three U.S. officials are throwing Waltz under the bus to make him the fall guy for all this. The use of Gmail is far less secure a method of communication than the encrypted messages app signal. And it's the latest example of questionable data security practices by top national security officials. Already under fire for the mistaken inclusion of a journalist in a group chat about high level planning for military operations in Yemen. A senior Waltz aide used the commercial email service for highly technical conversations with colleagues at other government agencies involving sensitive military positions and powerful weapons systems relating to an ongoing conflict. And that's according to emails viewed by the Post. While the National Security Council official used his Gmail account, his interagency colleagues used their government issued accounts. Headers for all the email correspondence show that. And again, when we talk about Hillary's private email server, that was a private email server set up for her and the stuff that she was sending was not marked classified. We don't know the details from the Washington Post like we know the details from the Atlantic about exactly what was sent on these. But if you're talking about military positions and weapon systems, that's classified, and it was marked classified before he probably copied and pasted into Gmail. But that private, her private email server, way more secure than a Gmail account signal. Way more secure than a Gmail account. And again, I think this is Waltz being thrown under the bus. So. Oh, we'll see how this goes. We'll stay on top of this story. Also, a Democratic National Committee and campaign leaders have filed a lawsuit asking a judge to declare a new Trump executive order on elections legally void. They argue that the new Trump orders would, quote, suppress voters, upend voter registration systems and hand over sensitive information to Doge. And as I tweeted like a week ago, I tweeted parts of a ruling by Judge Pryor, who's the chief Judge of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals, which is a very conservative circuit. He's a very conservative judge. He's really good friends with Clarence Thomas. When Mark Meadows wanted to remove his case from Fulton County, Georgia to the federal courts, he said, no, you may not, first of all, because you're a former officer, not a current officer, and there's questions about that. But his main issue was that you, the chief of staff, and the president have no involvement, no role in national elections. And that's what these lawsuits are pointing out. And I really appreciate that because there are a bazillion different cases that Judge Pryor cited, and you can see those on the thread that I posted on Blue Sky. So I don't think that this voting rights executive order is going to go very far. We'll see when it makes it up to the Supreme Court. These cases Next up, the plaintiffs in the Alien Enemies act case. They've responded to the Trump administration's invocation of the state secrets privilege. Remember when I talked about the state secrets privilege? It's like attorney client privilege, but for state secrets. Here's what they write. Two threshold matters bear emphasis. First, the plaintiffs respectfully submit that's the good guys that the court already possesses the information it needs to conclude that its March 15th oral and written temporary restraining orders were violated by the Trump administration. The government has confirmed that, quote, two flights carrying aliens being removed under the Alien enemies Act departed U.S. airspace before the court's minute order of 7:25pm EDT and before the court's oral statements during the hearing. The government has also confirmed that it is, quote, not contesting for the purposes of these proceedings that the planes landed abroad and that the aliens on board were deplaned after the issuance of the court's minute order. These facts, standing alone, establish that the government failed to comply with both of the court's orders. However, if the court determines that it lacks sufficient information to assess the government's non compliance with its orders and that the government must respond to the court's five questions of March 18 to establish a more complete record. The government should not be permitted to withhold these facts from the court on the basis of the state secrets privilege. Second, plaintiffs are unaware of any case in which the state secrets privilege has been invoked to withhold evidence from a court seeking to enforce its own orders, the application of the state secrets privilege in this case is entirely unwarranted. If the government's reasoning here were accepted more broadly, it could thwart judicial investigation of contempt. Whenever the government asserts a nexus to foreign affairs or national security, then that would allow the executive to defy court orders with impunity. We talked a lot about this. I wrote a whole blog piece about it, did a video series about it. You can check that out@muellershirote.com but this, this is contempt of court. And again, I don't suspect that we'll see people thrown in jail. I think that they're going to we're going to try to see the court order the Trump administration to cure the contempt by actually bringing these deportees back to the United States and giving them due process. We will keep an eye on this for you. There's a lot of hearings coming up, April 3, April 4 and April 8. And we'll talk more about that as those hearings happen next. Up from the Atlantic. This is the publication whose journalist was, quote, unquote, accidentally added or I'm sorry, who schemed his way in to the signal chat. The Atlantic says the Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing Monday that it had grabbed a Maryland father with protected legal status and mistakenly deported him to El Salvador, but also said that the US Courts lacked jurisdiction to order his return from the mega prison where he's now locked up. The case appears to be the first time that the Trump administration has admitted to errors when it sent three planeloads of Salvadoran and Venezuelan deportees to El Salvador's grim terrorism confinement center on March 15th. Attorneys for several Venezuelan deportees have said that the Trump administration falsely labeled their clients as gang members because of their tattoos. Trump officials have disputed those claims. But in Monday's court filing, attorneys for the government admitted that the Salvadoran man, Kilmar Arbego Garcia, had been deported accidentally, quote, although ICE was aware of his protection from removal to El Salvador, Abrego Garcia was removed to El Salvador because of an administrative error. That's what the government said in the court filing. Trump lawyers said the court has no ability to bring Abrego Garcia back now because he's in Salvadoran custody. Simon Sandoval Mosenberg, Abrego Garcia's attorney, says he's never seen a case in which the government knowingly deported someone who had already received protected legal status from an immigration judge. He's asking the court to order the Trump administration to ask for Abrego Garcia's return and if necessary, to withhold payment to the Salvadoran government, which says it's charging the United States $6 million a year to jail U.S. deportees. Now. Also from Politico, a sweeping layoff plan affecting more than 10,000 employees. We've talked about this in a prior episode. 10,000 employees at the Department of Health and Human Services was abruptly delayed on Friday over growing backlash with how the process was being orchestrated by Brad Smith, the DOGE lead at hhs. And that's according to two officials who spoke to Politico at the center of the controversy is Smith's secretive approach and his attempts to shield one HHS agency he has ties to from the reduction in force process. And that's according to the two officials as well as two others, all granted anonymity to describe the sensitive conversations. The fallout has laid bare internal tensions with Dogecoin and raised questions about transparency in one of the most consequential restructuring efforts of the federal workforce. Critics say Brad Smith, who led the center for Medicare and Medicaid Innovation during Trump's first term, is maneuvering to spare the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which houses cmmi, from the brunt of the layoffs, leading to a rare internal revolt within Doge. Smith and his top aide, Rachel Riley, quote, keep everything close to their chest. The playbook isn't clear, whereas everywhere else the playbook is very clear. That's what one HHS official said, who was granted anonymity to speak candidly. Quote, they are isolationists. Now Riley has drawn further scrutiny for her role in controlling access to the master plan, the master plan that outlines in granular detail where cuts will fall across hhs. Riley, according to the HHS official, did not share the data files with many of the very people responsible for executing the layoffs, career staff and department heads. And that created bottlenecks and confusion. The backlash reached a boiling point at the end of last week when department heads and senior leadership were learning about expected layoffs from news reports. And that's according to the two people with direct knowledge of the matter. That prompted HHS Chief and chief of staff Heather Flick and other department senior leadership to temporarily delay the RIF rollout. So pushback works. It also helps that they're confused and incompetent. Also from Politico, the Trump administration is withholding tens of millions of dollars from Planned Parenthood clinics that provide contraception, STI testing and other health services to low income Americans. 9 Planned Parenthood state affiliates that receive federal money from the 55 year old Title 10 Family Planning Program. They all got notices Monday which they shared with Politico informing them that their funding is being, quote, temporarily withheld. The notice pointed to possible violations of federal civil rights laws and President Trump's executive orders, including prohibitions on promotion of diversity, equity and inclusion and, quote, taxpayer subsidiation of open borders. Now, the letter to Planned Parenthood chapters, many of them in GOP controlled states, cites the clinic's mission statements and other public documents that stress, quote, a commitment to black communities as evidence of their non compliance. Amy Margolis, the deputy director of HHS's Office of Population affairs argued the materials, quote, paint a picture of Planned Parenthood that suggests it's engaged across its affiliates in widespread practices across hiring operations and patient treatment that unavoidably employ race in a negative manner. The letter also shied the group for serving undocumented immigrants, writing that Planned Parenthood's funding is being withheld because the organization overtly encourages illegal aliens to receive care. What the fuck? I mean, just what the fuck? This, this. A similar thing happened at the at the va, right? There were groups inside the VA whose job, whose job it was to collect data for underserved veterans in marginalized communities or rural areas. And because those numbers included black people, women of color, et cetera, they were considered DEI offices. All they were doing was collecting data to better reach veterans in underserved communities. It's going to be devastating for health outcomes. And of course, we're probably not going to get the real numbers because it's the Trump administration that reports those out. It's fucking unconscionable. Now next up from Wired, the DOGE affiliated acting president of the United States Institute of Peace, a congressionally funded independent think tank, has moved to transfer the agency's $500 million headquarters building to the GSA free of charge. That's according to court documents revealed in a recently filed lawsuit. Now, tensions at USIP have been escalating for weeks, starting when the Trump administration fired the agency's 10 voting board members on March 14 and USIP staffers denied DOGE representatives access at the front door. Three days later, DOGE employees made their way into the building. They forced themselves in, reportedly using a physical key from a former security contractor. The dramatic confrontations culminated in a full takeover, with former State Department official Ken Jackson assuming the role of president. As of this past Friday, most USEP staffers have received termination notices. In a separate undated letter, which was also included in the batch of documents filed with the court, Kavanaugh, the new guy, remember the piss ant cornhole dick face I was talking about? He writes to GSA acting administrator Stephen Hikian. He says, I have concluded that it is in the best interest of usip, the federal government in the United States, for USIP to transfer its real Property, located at 2301 Constitution Avenue, to GSA and to seek an exception from the 100% reimbursement requirement for the building building. Kavanaugh goes on to estimate the building has a fair market value of $500 million. In another letter included in the lawsuit, dated March 29 Project 2025. Architect and office of Management and Budget Director Russ Vaught wrote to Ehekian to approve his request, quote, to set the amount of reimbursement at no cost for the transfer of the United States Institute of Peace's headquarters building. To state this plainly, DOGE forced out the directors and staff of a non executive agency and installed one of its own GSA staffers as president. And that person is now attempting to hand the institute's $500 million headquarters over to the agency he came from at zero cost. This is theft. Judge Beryl Howe has the case in front of her and we'll go over what she rules on as soon as we have that information. And finally from the Daily Beast, comedian John Oliver, one of my heroes, has been sued by a health insurance executive that he excoriated in an on air rant, quote, the doctor with a rusty canoe. I hope he gets tetanus of the balls. That's what Oliver said in an episode of Last Week Tonight that aired in April of 2024. The expletives came moments after John Oliver said that Dr. Brian Morley, quote, thinks it's okay if people have shit on them for days. And that was in reference to testimony from a 2017 Medicaid hearing about home nursing visits. The filing claims that Morley, a former medical director, Ameri Health Kuritas, I don't know if that's how you say that actually, quote, testified to the opposite and it was never medically appropriate for individuals wearing diapers who are otherwise immobile to have shit on them for days. That's what the filing says. Morley's testimony came from a hearing about Amera Health and their decision to reduce home nursing visits for Nathan McDonald to five times a week from twice daily. That's according to the Des Moines Register. In the hearing that John Oliver was talking about, Morley said that, quote, people have bowel movements every day where they don't completely clean themselves and we don't fuss over them too much. You know, I would allow him to be a little dirty for a couple of days. Last week tonight linked Dr. Morley's quotes with a similar case of an Iowa native, Louis Facenda Jr. A 25 year old wheelchair user with cerebral palsy who had daily home nursing visits canceled and lost access to medication over a six week period after Ameri Health stopped paying for the services. The lawsuit hits back at the link between McDonald and Fenda, asserting that Dr. Morley believed Fenda needed multiple daily visits, but that McDonald did not. It says McDonald, quote, was not confined to a wheelchair, was not incontinent and did not wear diapers independently toilet transferred, was independently mobile, could change his own clothes, bathed himself, and did not require in home diaper changing or assistance to bathe generally. Instead, the filing claims that Morley's original comments referred to, quote, the average individual who's independently mobile but does not wipe perfectly, not someone who's wearing diapers or otherwise laying in their own bowel movements. Oliver's quote feigned outrage at the out of context quotes the lawsuit says was fabricated for ratings and profits at the expense of Dr. Morley's reputation and personal well being. Maybe somebody should sit Dr. Morley in his own for a few days and then he can talk about his personal well being. Morley is demanding a retraction and for the episode to be removed from all platforms. The suit also demands $75,000 in compensatory damages, additional special and punitive damages to be determined, and for Morley's legal costs to be covered. I don't think this lawsuit's gonna go very far, but if it does, discovery should be fucking gold. All right, everybody, it's time for a little good trouble. What are you guys doing? All right, everybody, Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to download and read the online guide called Pranksters vs why Dilemma Actions Advance Nonviolent Activism. The Lawrence and Lynn Brown Democracy Medal, Presented by the McCourtney Institute for Democracy at Penn State, recognizes outstanding individuals, groups, and organizations that produce innovations to further democracy in the United States and around the world. The 2020 Brown Democracy Medal winner, Sergei Popovic, was a leader in the revolution that brought down the autocratic regime in Serbia, and he continues to help protesters around the world learn effective, sometimes humorous, nonviolent tactics. In 2020, he teamed up with Sophia McLennan to study the concept of dilemma actions, which offers a structured, strategic approach to fighting back against authoritarianism, as well as for defending democracy. We will have a link to this free publication. It's only about 100 pages in the show notes, and that's your good trouble and your mission should you choose to accept it. All right, everybody, we have an outstanding interview with a very good friend of mine, Joyce Vance, former U.S. attorney and legal analyst at NBC and MSNBC. And that's going to come up right after this quick break, so stick around. We'll be right back after these messages. We'll be right back. Hey, everybody. Being a foodie but not a fan of spending hours in the kitchen, home chef has been my best kept secret. It's like having a personal sous chef who Takes care of all the boring prep work. No more meal planning, grocery shopping, wasted ingredients or expensive delivery. Users of leading meal kits have rated Home Chef number one in quality, convenience, value, taste and recipe ease. And for a limited time, Home Chef is offering you 50% off and free shipping for your first box. Plus free dessert for life. Just go to homechef.com dailybeans Home Chef sends precisely measured ingredients and recipes created by chefs so that I can prepare restaurant quality meals. 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Just go to homechef.com dailybeans that's homechef.com dailybeans for 50% off your first box and free dessert for life. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Hey everybody, welcome back. I'm super honored to be joined today by my good friend. We've been talking for many, many years going back to the very first Trump administration. She's a former U.S. attorney and legal analyst for NBC. Please welcome Joyce Vance.
- [31:18]
Joyce Vance
It is so nice to be with you.
- [31:20]
Alison Gill
It's good to see you my friend. I follow you for the knitting and for the chickens and for the legal commentary. And we're going to talk about at least one of those things today. And you know, right now I just kind of want to give everybody sort of the lay of the land where we're at. It's, it's, It's Tuesday. It's April 1st. It's about 2:30 in the afternoon Pacific time. 5:30 over there. We are about an hour away from Senator Cory Booker breaking Strom Thurmond's speech, floor speech, Senate floor speech record of 24 hours. And 19 minutes that could, that that's going to be happening anytime now. We're also right in the middle of elections at two Florida House seat elections, Florida 1 and Florida 6, and Wisconsin Supreme Court election, which is going to kind of help us determine whether or not elections can be bought by Elon Musk or the power of the people can overcome that. And so I just kind of wanted to lay the land out so that if people are like, why aren't they talking about what happened in Wisconsin just now? That is why. But what I wanted to talk to you about today and what you and I have been talking about offline for a minute are these ways to microdose hope, right? These finding these heroes, finding the helpers. We were talking about the heroes among us. And it started back with some of the resignations in the Eric Adams debacle, which still hasn't been resolved by Judge Dale Ho yet. But talk a little bit about why it's so important that we find these wins and hang on to them in order to kind of get us to the next one.
- [32:46]
Joyce Vance
Yeah. So, you know, you and I have talked a little bit about gaining perspective from the election. The biggest piece of perspective I have is it became so popular for us to adopt the cheap, easy view that Donald Trump had destroyed democratic institutions. Right. He outran the criminal justice system. He got away with all sorts of crazy anti democratic stuff. And in our minds, he became inevitable. What I have learned with a little bit of distance is that Donald Trump did not beat democracy. Donald Trump did not beat the rule of law. And Donald Trump is most certainly not inevitable. We're watching district court judges across the country push back against that. But you know what? We are also watching people like, I won't out her by using her name, one of my former U.S. attorney colleagues who has been out a couple times a week protesting with her girlfriends, a group of women in their 60s holding up these just vicious signs and protesting like their lives depend upon it, which of course, all of our lives do right Now, I say that to say there are heroes among us, there are champions for democracy among us. And what we have learned is that democracy is hard work and it's a battle that you have to fight over and over and over again. But ultimately we do have the power to hold the bad guys in chest.
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Alison Gill
I think I, you know, I think you're right. And I know you're right because when I see these people, I'm so inspired by what they're doing. You know, even on this podcast, we do a Daily Good Trouble assignment where we're like, go out and, you know, jam this mailbox up or. Or call the Wisconsin Attorney General and tell them to hold Elon Musk accountable for trying to buy votes in the Wisconsin Supreme Court race or. Or whatever. It is something small that people can do because it just seems very overwhelming. And it's that way by design, isn't it, Joyce? Everyone's like, this is a distraction from that, and this story is a distraction from Signalgate, and this story is a distraction from that. It's like all of the stories, the totality of the scandals is a distraction from all of them. It's the way of flooding the zone, so to speak. And that's why I appreciate so much your sub stack. It's called Civil Discourse. And it's just. It's like, let's look at. Let's just focus on this today because, like, good resistance is focused resistance, is it not?
- [35:11]
Joyce Vance
I think it is. And it's so easy to get overwhelmed. I mean, I get overwhelmed right when there's like ten hundred plus page court opinions that are released in one day. Look, I'm good, but I'm not that good, right? I can't. I cannot read and digest all of them. And so what I've learned is you have to pick your poison, so to speak, and you have to strike that balance between knowing what's going on, you know, all across the battlefield, and understanding what the dynamics are and focusing on just enough of the specifics so that you really do understand at a very cellular level how horrible it is. What worries me the most right now are our folks who are so overwhelmed, and I am so understanding of how they get this way that they say, I just have to unplug. I can't follow it anymore. And, you know, it's fabulous that some people have the privilege and the ability to do that, but. But while they're taking their eye off the ball, people are being deported, people are losing their jobs, people are losing their health care. And right now, as Americans, we have got to find it within ourselves to keep watching and in. In essence, to be witnesses to what's going on. I mean, we are not fighting it, you know, in Normandy, right? Instead, we're fighting online, which is nuts. And for so long. Don't you remember this? People said, oh, Twitter's not the real world, and it's not. And thank God it's not. However, social media is an important place where the fight for the hearts and minds of Americans are being fought with disinformation. And we take what we see and observe there into our communities. I mean, this is important, everyday stuff.
- [36:47]
Alison Gill
Yeah. And I think what's. What I see the most is when people are like, I'm overwhelmed. I'm unplugging. I know people are being deported, for example, but what can I do? I can't stop the planes. I don't have a bunch of money to sue. I'm not even a party. I don't even have standing. You know, what can I do? I think that that's one of the biggest problems. It reminds me, Joyce, and I've used this analogy before, of the show Hoarders, where they'll walk into a house that is just completely filled to the ceilings, floor to ceilings, room to room, with just stuff. And you look at that and you look at the totality of it, and you just want to, like, walk out and just wash your hands of and say, I don't even know where to begin.
- [37:28]
Joyce Vance
Yeah.
- [37:28]
Alison Gill
But then they go into a corner of a bathroom and just start on something, Right? They just pick a thing and start on it. When we. When. When we thought the first Trump administration was a fire hose, it's nothing compared to this one. But I was like, you know what? What? Instead of just doing a podcast about everything, I'm going to do a podcast about the Mueller investigation and pick that apart. And I think if everybody finds their thing, finds their lane, finds their groove, for example, these Tesla takedown rallies and town hall rallies are so great and so important because they're focused, right? It gives somebody some, like, a spot to focus on, to keep your balance. We do this in yoga all the time, right? Like, stare at that dot on the wall so you can keep your balance. Violence, that's kind of what it reminds me of. And that's why I think, like, let's talk for a second about a dot on the wall that you covered in Civil Discourse. You. Everybody needs to subscribe to this substack. You're talking about the third term. Trump's been saying this for a very long time, that he should get an extra, extra term because 2020 was really his and I should, you know, or whatever. He says he's got ways to make it happen. And a lot of people are saying, ignored. It's a distraction. And a lot of people are saying, no, it's kind of important. We should. Should. It's a big, giant chunk of autocracy. We should really look at this because this is how we. How Russia ended up with Putin. Talk a little bit about this piece and why you focused on that.
- [38:54]
Joyce Vance
So, look, Trump is serious. When he floats this idea of a third term, like he so often does, it means that it's a plan that he have. And it reminds me, I bet that this will resonate with you, too. Of ahead of the 2016 election, which he ended up winning, he would say, well, if I lose, it'll be because of fraud. And then that whole notion of fraud disappeared until he pulled it back out of his, you know, hip pocket ahead of 2020 and said, well, if I don't win, it'll be because of fraud. And we all know how that ended up. This third term nonsense is starting to look the same way. And let me just shut it down and. And say this. The 22nd Amendment prohibits Donald Trump from serving a third term. It prohibits this nonsense of J.D. vance running for president, Donald Trump running for vice president, and then J.D. trump, in an act of utter selflessness, hand over the presidency to Donald Trump and wanders away into the woodwork. You know, this stuff is not legal. In order to change the 22nd Amendment and permit Donald Trump to serve a third term, there would have to be a constitutional amendment. And I. I don't think that we're going to get the majority that's necessary in Congress for the American people to vote on that amendment in time for it to apply. Maybe I'm wrong. If Donald Trump wants to do it the legal way, you know, go with God. But what we cannot do is we cannot let Donald Trump get away with floating an illegal scheme and letting that gain currency and legitimacy. So in both the courts of law and the court of public opinion, this garbage needs to get shut down now.
- [40:29]
Alison Gill
And how do we shut it down?
- [40:31]
Joyce Vance
Well, I think with facts, right? With. With reality and with the notion that Donald Trump does not get to break the Constitution. Right, Right. Any more than Donald Trump is entitled to take away your and my right to free speech. We get to do this podcast. We get to say what we want. The government cannot put a prior restraint on our speech. By that same token, Donald Trump can't just decide that he is going to run for a third term. And as soon as he does that in any meaningful way where they're standing for someone to sue, there needs to be, and there will be lawsuits, and I know it'll be reminiscent, right, of the litigation that happened about whether he could be on the ballot in states like Colorado and Maine last go round. But this, this is not something that's a close call. This is a. The federal courts need to slap this nonsense out of existence.
- [41:20]
Alison Gill
And I'm going to play, you know, I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second because I was certain going into the immunity oral arguments that there's absolutely no way that they would just completely disregard the entirety of certain parts of the Constitution and put a president above the law. Yet that's what they, they did. Even to a point in one of the holdings where Amy Coney Barrett was like, no, no, no, no, no, no. So what would you say to folks who are afraid of what the Supreme Court might do? This Supreme Court, I should say in a case like that now, you know, we're going to see big cases like for example, birthright citizenship go up and we'll see how they react there. We've already seen them turn down a couple of emergency stays for temporary restraining orders.
- [42:05]
Joyce Vance
That's just early preliminary game. So I mean, that's not the big show.
- [42:09]
Alison Gill
Yeah. So what would you say to somebody who's so uncomfortable with what the Supreme Court has done recently with Roe and with immunity about something like this, a question like this?
- [42:18]
Joyce Vance
Well, I think it's fair to have questions about this court. I mean, I don't know that we would see a 90 ruling out of this court even on a stone cold matter, because obviously there are concerns about Justice Thomas and Justice Alito's views about this administration and the godlike proportions that they seem to have decided it's entitled to take on under law. But this issue in particular. Right. Third term, this isn't a close call. This is written in the Constitution in plain, unambiguous language. And so for the so called textualists and strict constructionists in the Republican Party, this is not a difficult issue. If this is a difficult issue, then we are in all kinds of trouble. I don't believe that we will be. I believe that there will be seven votes that will say no third term.
- [43:07]
Alison Gill
Well, yeah, seven. I like how you're like seven.
- [43:10]
Joyce Vance
I would love for there to be nine. I mean, and you know, I, I will say, you know, Justice Thomas certainly has given indication over time that he, he's very smart. He can read and explain the Constitution when he chooses to in just this crystal clear language. This is not, you know, the, the whole, the earlier issue, it was very nuanced. There were arguments on both sides. I did not think that it would win in lower courts, let alone in, in the Supreme Court. But here I would be very surprised if Donald Trump, if the courts put their imprimatur on a third term.
- [43:48]
Alison Gill
Yeah, well, it also kind of takes away their own power. It could potentially harm them as, as the judiciary. We've already seen Justice Roberts come out and say, hey, you know, you can't just impeach judges because you don't like them. I think my post was, I never thought the leopards would eat my judiciary.
- [44:08]
Joyce Vance
That's exactly right. It's like, and when they eat the leopard's face, right, all of a sudden the leopard wakes up, or I guess I've got that backwards. But when the leopard eats the judiciary's face, the judiciary finally wakes up, you know, and says, no, not my face. You can have everybody else's face. I mean, it's nice to know that John Roberts has a sense of self preservation. Obviously, the criminal immunity ruling was deeply disturbing, contrary to law. I understand the notion, you know, Justice Gorsuch and oral argument. Well, we're ruling for the ages, not for this presidency, and sort of failing to understand what the moment was and what the law required of them. It's, I think, cheap and easy to say, gee, I hope that they've learned their lesson. They're Supreme Court justices, right. They don't learn lessons. My hope is that they will read the law and look at the facts and rule accordingly.
- [44:56]
Alison Gill
Yeah, here's hoping. And the last bit before I let you go is everybody's always asking, you know, the reason I have a good trouble segment is because everyone is asking like, what can I do? And as it turns out, you have a new book coming out. Giving up is a manual for keeping a democracy. It comes out, like I said, in October, but it is available for pre order now. And so I recommend everybody get on that but talk a little bit about this book and the timing of it and what prompted you to write it.
- [45:24]
Joyce Vance
Yeah. So, you know, first, can I just say I love that you do the good trouble statement. I love John Lewis. I loved John Lewis so much. He spoke to my class of U.S. attorneys at one point and I went up and spoke to him afterwards and, and I, I introduced myself and I said, I'm Bob Vance's daughter in law. My father in law had been a federal judge, but before that he was the head of the Alabama Democratic Party and they had known each other fairly well. And he just sort of put his arms around me and he, he didn't say anything, he just hugged me for the longest time. And when I'm having bad days, I sometimes, I mean, like, this sounds really silly, but I feel, you know, myself thinking about what it felt like to be in the Warm embrace of John Lewis. One of my colleagues just happened to snap a photograph of that moment. So I have a little photo of me looking really dorky, like a young U.S. attorney. But it really.
- [46:17]
Alison Gill
Can I ask, before you continue, will you send me that photo? Can I share that photo? You sure?
- [46:21]
Joyce Vance
Thank you. It's. It's just like one of those things that you sometimes think about and you feel about, and it makes you hopeful. And that's what I wanted to carry over into the book, this notion that we are not broken, we are not defeated. You know, maybe we were the frogs who got in the pot and let the water temperature rise a little bit, but we jumped out before it boiled and. And we can do so much more. I love the notion that you give people one simple thing that they can do. I am a big fan of calling your members of Congress. Mine are all Republicans. I'm having an ongoing communication with Katie Britt. I'm sure she's never seen it, but I look forward to the emails that her staff sends me many days during the week explaining her positions. Because I know from my friend Doug Jones, my former senator, that those things matter. And if you find yourself, yourself questioning whether your calls and letters matter, know that they do. That those officers are counting them, that they are looking at them, and that this is a Republican Party. I think that's nervous and on edge. And our job is to remind them that they recommend, or rather that they represent all of us, and that in this moment, we're going to demand that our voices be heard, too.
- [47:35]
Alison Gill
That is such a good point. I look forward to seeing that picture. And I mean, yeah, at some point, there's gonna be a reckoning. But with these elected Republican members of Congress, do they listen to their constituents, or do they listen to Donald Trump and risk being reelected? We've seen it in these town halls, these empty chair town halls, and I hope we continue to see it. Joyce, it's always a pleasure to talk to you again. Everybody, you can order the book. Giving up is Unforgivable, Emmanuel for keeping Democracy. And please subscribe to Civil Discourse on Substack. It is truly inspiring, and you always are. And I always look forward to speaking to you, my friend.
- [48:18]
Joyce Vance
You are so kind. I just have to say, I feel the same way about you. I never get to see your face. I get to listen to the podcast while I'm driving back and forth to the university. I always love hearing what you're up to.
- [48:29]
Alison Gill
Thank you so much, and I appreciate you. We'll have you back on again to catch up and I can't wait to speak to you again everybody. Thank you so much and please thank Joyce Vance again by subscribing to Civil Discourse and grabbing that book. Everybody. We will be right back with the good news. This podcast is sponsored by Peak Peak's Radiant Skin Duo combines Sun Goddess Matcha and BT Fountain Electrolytes for the ultimate in beauty and wellness. This powerful duo supports glowing hydrated skin while boosting energy, gut health and overall vitality. And you can get 20% off on the Radiant Skin Duo plus a free starter kit at peaklife.com dailybeans after years of struggling with dull skin energy crashes, it was awful. I discovered Peak's Radiant Skin Duo and it's transformed my health routine. This powerful pairing of Sun Goddess Matcha and BT Fountain delivers results I can actually see and feel. The ceremonial grade Sun Goddess Matcha is unlike any other. Shaded, 35% longer and quadruple toxin screened. It offers a creamy umami flavor while delivering calm energy from L Theanine and skin firming EGCG Antiox. Now as someone who used to rely on coffee, I'm amazed by the sustained focus without jitters or crashes. And then there's BT Fountain. It's become my hydration hero. It's a vegan formula. It contains no added sugar, no preservatives or artificial ingredients, just clinically proven ceramides that plump my skin and reduce fine lines. The pre measured sachets make it effortless to stay consistent. You just dissolve it in water morning and night. And what I love most is how the globally sourced ingredients are rigorously tested for purity and bioavailability. Together they've given me that coveted lit from within glow that dewy look while simplifying my self care routine. No more guessing games with complicated regimens, just premium science backed nutrition that works from the inside out. So for anyone wanting better skin and energy without compromise, this duo delivers. The proof is in my mirror every morning. So if you're ready to transform your routine right now, you can get 20% off the Radiance Skin Duo plus a free starter kit which includes a rechargeable froth, a glass beaker and you can get that with my exclusive link peaklife.comdailybeans that's P I Q U E life.com dailybeans don't miss out. Glow naturally into 2025 and beyond while supplies last. Everybody welcome back. It's time for the good news. Who likes good news? Everyone? Then good news everyone. Good news. And if you have Any good news confessions? Corrections? You want to play what the mutt? Find the cat opine on the bovine. What the hecwine? What's the model of your axolotl? You can send us all of your good news stories, plus your shout outs to loved ones or yourself or a small business in your area or your small business or some great community activism or a government program that's helped you and a loved one like Social Security, Medicare, Medicai, Affordable Care Act, WIC, SNAP, Section 8 free school lunches, great VA health care you've received, PACT act health care, and of course student debt forgiveness. All of that, you can send it to us@dailybeanspod.com just submit your POD pet tax, which is a photo of your pet. If you want us to guess the breeds, we'll try. We're not. We're not very good. But you can. You can give the answers at the end of your submission and we'll try to guess. If you don't have a pet, you can send an adoptable pet in your area. We'll see if we can find him a home home. If you don't have that, any animal photo will do. And of course, if you don't have that baby pictures, you should just send all your baby pictures anyway. We're also accepting for the foreseeable future bird watching photos, which can be an actual bird, like my favorite bird, the secretary bird, or if you prefer, a photo of you and your family and friends flipping off Trump and Musk properties. Send it all to us dailybeanspod.com click on contact. First up, a French correction from M. Hello Beans Queens. I started listening to the beans a few months ago. Welcome and finally became a patron one day. Apple was not sharing your podcast at 6am and I was in panic mode. You keep me sane, which is difficult these days, and I often laugh out loud. Thanks Dana. Despite the general fuckery today, I wanted to offer a correction. Like you ag, I'm very happy Marine Le Pen will not get to run for president. I grew up in France, used to participate in protests against her dad and still show up to the polls 25 years later to vote against her. To say that family has been a plague on French politics is an understatement. I am jealous of the French, tempted to move back even. But to go back to my correction, as a woman you would say je suis jalouse. Not. Not jalous. Shalou. I don't know how to pronounce the difference. Je suis jalouse is. That is that how I do it, Em. Anyway, please keep up the good work. We need you for my pet tax. I'm sending a couple of pics on my sidekick B. The Velcro vizsla who can never be too close to me, and a picture of the tenant living under our shed. He just came back last weekend after being gone through the winter. He's pretty chill, and he's fast enough to escape B. What do you call these? Gophers or groundhogs. He's adorable either way. And I always think of Alan. Alan.
- [53:40]
Joyce Vance
Al.
- [53:40]
Alison Gill
Alan. Alan. Oh, wait, that's Steve. Steve. Anyway, thank you so much for the correction. I forget, you know, that. That there's the. The differences whether you're a man or a woman saying certain things. And look at this Vizla. Oh, my God, the beautiful eyes, the. The ears. Just gorgeous. Thank you so much, Em, for the correction. I really appreciate it. Next up, Emmy Pronoun. She and her. Hello, Queens. I've been listening for a while. My husband got his first listen a few weeks ago during a shared commute. He's still giggling about kegseth. I have a correction for you. On Friday, it was suggested that universities lean into their endowments to fight back or at least hold the line. I just want to make sure you both and your listeners understand that endowments are really contractual obligations, meaning they can't be used for purposes other than those explicitly agreed to at the time of the donation. Despite what conservatives suggest, this money is already appropriated and can't be used to cover indirect cost increases, taxation, or legal fees. I hope this explains the perilous position in which even the Ivies find themselves. I assure you, university employees, particularly in biomedicine and public health, are every bit as terrified as federal employees right now. Yeah, Emmy, I'm so sorry. The federal job cuts are just the tip of the iceberg. Very disconcerting to have an administration intentionally increasing unemployment while simultaneously dismantling safety nets. Oh, right. Couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you for all you do to keep us informed and feeling less alone. For my pod pet tax, I present Wyatt a plot hound lab mix. He came to us from the south, emaciated and with heartworm, bacterial folliculitis, scabies, double ear infections, and giardia. He's the most expensive dog in existence and possibly the loudest, but he's worth it. And look at this angel. He looks. First of all, his ears are probably like velvet. What is that velvet? That is just an absolute adorable pup. Thank you so much for that information, Emmy. I really appreciate it. I'll pass it on to John. Next up from Jen. She her hey Beans Queens Wanted to bring you some good news from Louisiana. This past weekend we had an election for most parishes. Those are counties. For those of you not in a former French Spanish colony, the only things on the ballot were four amendments cooked up by the state's MAGA governor Jeff Landry. I heard about this. They went down hard, right Jen? They would have broadly given him more power as well as increasing the list of offenses for which children could be charged as adults. Landry pushed these to the ballot, counting on low turnout at a spring election as opposed to waiting until, say, this fall when New Orleans will be voting for mayor. He, Steve Scalise and Mike Johnson, the unholy three were caught on a hot mic hoping for 12% turnout and expressing some concerns that it could be closer to 18%. Louisiana said nope, all four amendments failed and not barely 2/3 of voters said no. Statewide turnout was 21%, which is still low but far above your typical Saturday spring election. New Orleans, my proudly blue hometown, had 31% turnout with over 90% voting no. This was all driven by grassroots activism and outreach, making sure voters knew that there was an election happening at all and what was its stake. Of course KKK Landry blamed the win on far left liberals. This is Louisiana and Soros of course, and said the state was conditioned for failure. The backlash to these comments has been loud and statewide. Don't give up on us. Down here in the south we're scrappy, defiant and loud. Pod Pet Tax the first in two include two of my pack supervising as I organize our book collection to put them on my new nearly 90s kid fantasy built in bookshelves with a ladder. Oh my God, I'm jealous. J suis Roddy in both picks is Thibodeau. Cattle Dog Mix in profile is in the second picture is Bernard Bernard and Thibodeau. Third pick is the New Orleans Book Fest this weekend where I got to hear the unbelievable Dr. Fauci sp speak. He was every bit as amazing and humble as you'd hope. Thanks for everything you do to keep us informed and laughing during these times. Jen this is an incredible submission. Look at Fauci. Dude's like 800 years old and he looks like he's 50. I. I need I need to find out his his secret. Maybe it's just vaccine. Also bookshelf. Incredible. And look at the doggo. So cute. Thank you so much for this submission. It's this is lifting my spirits. All of these are just making me so happy right now. Now, Amy pronoun she and her hello beans queens. I wanted to give a shout out to a newish friend and spreader of hope, joy and kindness everywhere she goes. You can find her on Instagram at. Let's see. Cali Rock Chick. That's C A L I R O C K C H I C K. Cali Rock Chick. She paints amazing rocks and leaves them for others to find and keep or. Or leave for another. We went to the Tesla Takedown in Walnut Creek, California this weekend. It filled me with hope, energy and inspiration to see so many people out there willing to show up for democracy, keep up the collective good trouble. And then here is a great bird watching photo of two fantastic people flipping off a Tesla dealership. More photos from the Tesla Takedown. All of my rage won't fit on this sign. And hit him in his Tesla coals. Tesla coals. Fantastic. This rock is gorgeous. How does she do this? It says love, protect, defy, fight, resist, repeat. And it's the, you know the, the. We've seen the Statue of Liberty with her with her head in her hands. Just incredible. You can check out her rocks at Calirock Chick on Instagram. Amy, thank you so much. Shout out to Cali Rock Check chick. Thanks everybody for sending in your good news. Please flood us with your good news. I absolutely live on it. I thrive on it. And thanks to my good friend Joyce for joining me today. We're gonna have a lot of great interviews. Also today I appeared on Joel Wine Banks's podcast and Wajahat Ali's podcast and so look for those. I'll be sharing them on Blue Sky. Follow me on Blue sky at Muller, She Wrote. And then of course, please subscribe to my substack. It's totally free. Free. And you can do that@mullershireroute.com all right, everybody, it has been a whirlwind Wednesday. Thank you so much for listening. We'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Dana is on vacation, in case you just started listening and wondering where she's at. She'll be back soon. She's on vacation. I've been covering for and I'll be back in your ears tomorrow. Until then, please take care of yourselves, take care of each other, take care of the planet, take care of your mental health and take care of your family. I've been ag and them's the Beans. The Daily Beans is written and executive produced by Allison Gill with additional research and reporting by Dana Goldberg. Sound design and editing is by Desiree McFarlane with art and web design by Joelle Reader with Moxie Design Studios. Music for the Daily Beans is written and performed by they Might Be Giants and the show is a proud member of the MSW Media Network, a collection of creator owned podcasts dedicated to news, politics and justice. For more information Please visit msw media.com msw media.