What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation - Inside Trump's Head

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[00:01]
Michael
Fox News is streaming live on Fox One when it matters most. You want the truth from the voices you trust. Fox News goes beyond the headlines, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective at home or on the go. Stay connected when it counts. Stream Fox News on Fox 1 download. Today, Trump is adding on these things as justifications for the ballroom. Trump really wants the ballroom. He likes big events, he likes big audiences. The bigger, the better, the more opportunities for Donald Trump to appear before an audience. So this is not about national security. This is about Donald Trump.
[00:47]
Joanna
What is Trump's reaction to this court ruling that the ballroom, you know, is going to be stopped?
[00:53]
Michael
They've given him a stay of 14 days, so he's on the phone with the contractors, yelling, faster, faster, faster. Get this done. We've got a deadline. Build, build. Michael, Joanna.
[01:12]
Joanna
Another Saturday. Where are we going?
[01:17]
Michael
Yeah, You know, I'm pausing on that because I'm not sure I ever leave. So the idea of going in is. An uncertain place. I am in Trump's head. I have been in Trump's head for more than 10 years now, which is extraordinary. I mean, that is the. I mean, and I suppose the entire world has been inside Trump's head in their own fashion. So the idea that we enter now is not true. It's that we have a. We are acknowledging that that is the perspective that we all have. And the difference that we bring, actually, is the journalistic perspective that we are looking in, that this is. Trump is in the White House, we're outside the White House, and that is how we report on him is inaccurate. First thing, you're not going to get the story if that's your point of view. And it's also not true. We all have. And Trump is not incorrect about this. A Trump derangement syndrome we have done. He has pulled us in to this syndrome, and that is his actual political strength. You can't escape this guy.
[02:50]
Joanna
Okay, so for anyone new joining us, Michael hasn't left Trump's brain for the last 10 years where he's been writing about Donald Trump. I have started tiptoeing more recently into Trump's head with Michael as my guide. And, well, we just have so much to get through today before we get to it. I just want to ask you to like and subscribe and please share this podcast with your friends. We're independent media, so we appreciate your support. We love your comments. We pour over your comments, and if you want to write a limerick, you can.
[03:27]
Michael
JOANNA pours over Your comments.
[03:29]
Joanna
I do pour over the comments, actually. Michael goes in and out of the comments and sometimes I send him comments.
[03:35]
Michael
I skim.
[03:36]
Joanna
You skim. But you read books and you accuse me of skimming books. Anyway, anyway, we don't need to get into our, into our endless ongoing feuds, but we do need to tell people that we're going to be talking about Anthony Fauci and Trump's and MAGA's sort of obsession with him. Why are they so hysterical? The Trojan Ballroom, which has really got layers and layers of other things going on in it and of course has just been stopped by the courts. Todd Blanche finally, finally got what he wanted. But at what cost? Cost. But I really want to start, Michael, with the fact that we should have an inside Trump's head workout. I think both you and I spend too much time at the computer and we should, what is it called? License a workout for our listeners and viewers that they can do alongside us as we discuss the end.
[04:38]
Michael
Well, I actually think it should be more rightly be a mental workout. How do you get Trump out of your head?
[04:46]
Joanna
Okay, we can do that.
[04:47]
Michael
I know the workout that you're actually trying to get to. So let's, let's rush.
[04:54]
Joanna
Let's get to it. Let's get to it. We're going to do a little workout together. Fox News 9:00pm, My view on Saturday night. You guys are whipping everybody into shape at dhs. We are.
[05:04]
Michael
Listen, the Coast Guard's leading the way. DHS will protect our homeland, right? Yeah. So we need to look intimidating because every single day we're going to work, there's not a day that we have a rest day. There's not a day that we have a peace day. Every day from the Coast Guard, ice cbp. Our mission is protect the homeland and there's always somebody trying to get in.
[05:21]
Joanna
What folks at home may not be aware of is that we didn't just have any instructor for the workout. The secretary was the instructor for the workout. So you don't want to miss what we've got coming up this Saturday night. Impressive.
[05:34]
Michael
She was impressed. Impressive. She stayed in there, didn't miss a rep. I was, I was impressed.
[05:39]
Joanna
I appreciate it.
[05:41]
Michael
A 9 by 8 workout and it's a rough workout. That's pretty impressive.
[05:44]
Joanna
I didn't come to lose. She didn't come to lose. That is Lara Trump, who's twice tried to get her father in law's endorsement for a Senate seat. First in North Carolina, where she's from, then secondly in Florida and in Fact. Then she was given a show, My View with Lara Trump on Fox and she was doing an interview with Mark Wayne Mullen while she was doing a workout with him because she's a crazy athlete.
[06:13]
Michael
And actually this is her second show on Fox. Her first show got canceled. One of the interesting things about Lara Trump is she has tried to make a career off of the Trump presidency, off of her father in law and not succeeded. I mean, sort of over and over again either to run for office or then she was for a period the head of the rnc. Again, she had a show on Fox, canceled then, now she apparently has another show on Fox. She's in there pitching, but I'm not sure this is again, that kind of thing. Family members. He doesn't want family members to succeed. I mean, he doesn't want family members to compete with him, is the point.
[07:09]
Joanna
Interesting. Well, we also have a picture of her here which I wanted to flag because this is just such a funny picture. First of all, she's got fantastic arms. Laura, I salute your arms. It does look as if Eric is trying very hard to stop her from running away. As we said in our Swamp newsletter this week,
[07:33]
Michael
it feels like every day there's another story you're supposed to have an opinion about and somehow you're expected to figure out what's actually true while everyone else is yelling at you about it. That's where our sponsor Straight Arrow, comes in. Straight Arrow focuses on the facts and context behind the stories that matter. Without manipulation, bias or an agenda, you're able to compare coverage across the political spectrum and get a clearer sense of what's actually happening. Instead of getting pulled into another media echo chamber. You can also start your weekday mornings with their fact driven, unbiased updates and go deeper into the issues of influencing your everyday life. To me, that's what trustworthy journalism should do, help you understand what's happening instead of adding to the noise. If you want a better way to get your news and you haven't downloaded the Straight Arrow app yet, now's the time. They're about to launch their new subscription and members get access to exclusive launch discounts. Before everyone else, go to san.com inside trumpshead to get the unbiased truth on the stories that matter only on the Straight Arrow app. Let's exit the echo chamber. Let's talk about Trump body types because I think it's, it's really interesting that at first thing, all of the women around Trump, all of them, 100% of the women around Trump have to conform to a prescribed body type. I mean, they all have to be very thin, they all have to be very fit, they all have to wear their hair down, they all have to wear their skirts short. I mean, it is, it, it's just the, the Trump uniform. Uniform for, for women under. I was going to say under a certain age, but they're all basically under a certain age.
[09:40]
Joanna
Well, it's also. It was a sort of Roger Ailes body type, too. Right. It's not, not dissimilar.
[09:45]
Michael
Very, very Fox. Yes, very Fox. I mean, only Susie Wiles is outside of that. But, yes, it's a very, very clear Fox body type. Roger understood them. I mean, there's something. This is too deep for me into the conservative view, into that cultural. Wherever that comes from. Vegas. Partly something that is different from part of the cultural split between what the coast, New York, what blue states see as, as a, you know, as a, I don't know, as a recognizing women as a sexy body type, as any kind of.
[10:32]
Joanna
Well, it's a sort of cliched, over feminized version of themselves. But it's not just the women's bodies, it's the men's bodies. Right. I mean, what's so fascinating is that fascinating, too? Yeah. Because Trump himself is clearly a physical slob. Your favorite or my favorite quote of Steve Bannon's, he looks like a giant shrimp. Regular viewers and observers will know I think he looks more like a bison because it's all sort of going on in his shoulders and as he increasingly slumps. But the fascination that he has with the sort of. I guess it's the brosphere's influence, but these kind of hard bodies. Pete Hegseth always working out. We're always seeing these guys in the gym. And now we've got Mark Wayne Mullen,
[11:16]
Michael
a former fighter, rfk.
[11:18]
Joanna
Of course, rfk, famously works out in jeans, doesn't use gym pants like everybody else.
[11:25]
Michael
And in fact, worth noting, one of the things of the many things that Trump had against Steve Bannon is the way Steve Bannon looked.
[11:34]
Joanna
Interesting. Interesting. Well, Steve Bannon could also do with a workout, but Mark Wayne Mullen was an interesting choice because we think that Trump has been leaking about Mark Wayne Mullen not doing a very good job. Now, Lara was working out with him as the new secretary for Homeland Security with the Coast Guard. He said because it was important, they look intimidating. I would like to venture the reason they look intimidating, Ice that he's in charge of is because they wear masks and they stop people who Are not doing anything wrong. But why do you think she was doing it with Mark Wayne Mullen? Is she trying to get him a boost?
[12:10]
Michael
Can I have. Have you ever heard of this name Mark Wayne before?
[12:14]
Joanna
No. I know he was a fighter. And also his family has a plumbing business.
[12:19]
Michael
Yeah, but Mark. So he has two first names put together. This is, this is. I mean, maybe this is a common name. I don't know. I've certainly never heard of it.
[12:28]
Joanna
Do you think the Wayne is. Well, it could be a family name. Mark Wayne, but it could be. But they're Wayne reference to John Wayne.
[12:36]
Michael
Yeah, I don't know. But they're written, they're together.
[12:40]
Joanna
It's like Mary Jane. Maybe they thought he was going to be a girl and they were going to call him Mary Jane. And so Mark Wayne is almost the masculine version of that.
[12:51]
Michael
No idea. And do we know where he came from? Do we know anything about this guy who just sort of appeared on the scene except that he seems to be fit?
[13:02]
Joanna
He does seem to be fit, or at least he seems to work out. We've no idea if he's actually fit. Cause he could be a thin fatty. Although probably not. We also know that his number two that he's brought in was in fact a highway patrolman before he led Mark Wayne's security detail. And now he's brought in, he's been brought in as number two. Something that Tom Omens was annoyed by.
[13:29]
Michael
Did any of these people go to college? I mean, I know it's Michael.
[13:34]
Joanna
What a bougie elite question. Did these people go to college? So bougie. So elite.
[13:40]
Michael
Yeah, no, no, it is that. And the follow up to that is, does anybody know anything about any thing? Well, let's go back to. So, okay, so Mark Wayne Mullen has had this job not very long. He replaced the infamous Kristi Noem, also very fit.
[14:03]
Joanna
Yes. Always working out. And with Corey Lewandowski by her side.
[14:11]
Michael
And curiously, Corey was fit too. Everybody except Trump, who is the exact opposite of that. Let's remember £300 and stuffing himself at every single second with sugar and fat.
[14:31]
Joanna
Well, and also someone who put on in the world of GLP1s has put on £15 in the last year.
[14:38]
Michael
So Trump is leaking his irritation with Mark Wayne Mullen and for two reasons that Mark Wayne Mullen is off message. I mean, essentially he goes around. I mean, the message from the Trump White House is without ambiguity. Immigrants are bad. They've got to go. There should be no exception. And Mark Wayne Mullen has now over the past week or so, given a series of speeches in which he basically outlines exceptions. Well, it's not gonna be that bad. I mean, yeah, it seems bad. Not gonna be that bad. We're looking to do it this way. And if, you know, Haitians can just do their paperwork, maybe they'll be okay. And Trump is saying, what are you talking about? Immigrants are bad. We want them to go. There should be no exclusions.
[15:37]
Joanna
And I think Mark Wayne Mullen had said to a group of businessme, I get it, some industries need more immigrants than others. I think we can figure it out.
[15:49]
Michael
So either Mark Wayne Mullen is trying to appeal to. A slightly less Trump base than the Trump base, or he just doesn't know how to give the message, he doesn't know how to do it, which I suspect is. Is the case because this seems to be a guy who wants to do anything to please Donald Trump, anything to hold on to his job. But I think it's probably confusing to him to have to speak in these absolute, categorical, Stephen Miller like terms because, A, they sound so, so cruel and they sound so impossible to achieve and they sound so. Yeah, cruel, nasty. He probably doesn't want to be so nasty.
[16:48]
Joanna
Or do you think that's a rather generous interpretation? I mean, is it possible that he's trying to do a JD and put some distance between himself and Trump because as a former championship fighter, he may also be positioning himself for 2020. Well,
[17:08]
Michael
that seems to me quite a leap, frankly. Mark Wayne Mullen, who we have never heard of, we don't even know if he went to college.
[17:16]
Joanna
People in the broosphere have heard about him, though. He comes from that world, the Dana White world. He was a fighter.
[17:24]
Michael
Yeah, sure. I mean, listen, we know now anybody can run for president. There is no barrier. College education, not required. Knowing anything, not required. That's for sure. That would still seem to me to be somewhat of a leap year. But why not? Yeah, I think Mark Wayne Mullen should run for president. Why not?
[17:50]
Joanna
But also, they run because even if they don't think they're going to get it, it's going to be good for their brand. It's going to give them better recognition. They might get better tables in a restaurant. They might find it easier to raise money or get a board. I. It just elevates people's profile. So it's now being seen, I think, as something that's additive if you have a social media profile and you want to be famous.
[18:11]
Michael
But practically speaking, in order for him to run for president, he would have to leave this job almost immediately and he may be fired. So maybe that's it. But then his qualifications would be essentially, I had a job for a few months in the Trump administration, maybe that's enough. But I think on a larger basis, what we're going to see is more irritation from Trump as he sees or as he suspects, he sees people trying to gain distance from him. So even if Mark Wayne Mullen is not trying just because he, he can't stay on message, just that perception of any kind of distance is going to start to irritate Trump. And we're going to see this across the board. Everybody in the administration, including J.D. vance, is going to start to seek distance from Trump, which will irritate Trump, which will cause a backlash from Trump. Summer's full of reasons to look your best to Covis Western boots are handcrafted in over 200 steps with premium cowhide and exotic leathers. And they're comfortable right out of the box. No break in period. Just boots you can wear all summer long. Their performance shirting and premium denim keep you cool and put together wherever the season takes you. And of course, you can always stop by to covis.com to Covas Forever West.
[19:49]
Joanna
Well, if Mark Wayne Mullin does go, at least he's tried his best to keep the DHS fit. And I was actually wondering if there's going to be a gym in what appears to be a Trojan horse of this ballroom, which literally contains multitudes. I mean, it's got a military grade hospital, it's got a bunker. Now it's got a drone port on the roof, which Trump immediately started truth socialing after a court basically put a halt on the ballroom. What could possibly go wrong? A drone port on the roof of the White house in downtown D.C. yeah,
[20:28]
Michael
actually, there's a couple of points here. This is Trump is adding on these things as justifications for the ballroom. In fact, he just wants the ballroom and is trying to say, well, if there's this and there's this and there's this, it's not just the ballroom, but Trump just wants the ballroom. Having said that, it is true that the White House is kind of a front, a facade on a military installation. I mean, we don't know this, but it really is a contained military base underneath the White House that we see
[21:12]
Joanna
to protect the president.
[21:14]
Michael
Well, to protect the president. And to protect really the full executive branch of the government. And when you're there.
[21:28]
Joanna
Have you been down there?
[21:30]
Michael
Yes. When you're there, you can start to Feel this. I mean, you feel the military presence. And if you have then any access to the underground or the behind the scenes, then you really start to feel the military presence.
[21:47]
Joanna
Well, it's true you feel the military presence because there are uniformed officers absolutely everywhere when you go there, usually making sure that you're not trying to slip away into a different part of the White House to snoop around, I think. But I didn't realize it was a sort of military base underneath it. I suppose that stands to reason.
[22:07]
Michael
But having said that, this is not the Trump reason. Trump really wants the ballroom. I mean, what's the ballroom? Because he wants, you know, big audiences. Another this is an, essentially what he's creating is a venue. That's what he wants. He likes big events, he likes big audiences. The bigger, the better, the more people, the more, the more opportunities for Donald Trump to appear before an audience. So this is not about national security, this is about Donald Trump.
[22:45]
Joanna
So, Michael, what is Trump's reaction to this court ruling that he's got to, that the ballroom is going to be stopped?
[22:54]
Michael
Yeah, I mean, they've given him 14 days, a stay of 14 days. So he's on the phone with the contractors yelling, faster, faster, faster. Get this done. We've got a deadline. Build, build.
[23:07]
Joanna
Can I just read you the judge's scathing report yesterday, or at least one line from it? Congress has not ceded unfettered authority to the executive branch to dramatically redesign, reshape and reconstruct the White House, the people's House, to fit a particular president's desires, the panel wrote in its 2 to 1 ruling. With only a Trump appointed judge dissenting. Each president is a temporary tenant, not the owner of the White House and its executive residence. I mean, this seems like pretty much of a double slap to Trump.
[23:43]
Michael
Yeah. But just to make a slight correction there, just to say only a Trump judge dissenting. The. That. That represents one third of the panel.
[23:54]
Joanna
Right.
[23:56]
Michael
And, and that will be. And the Trump, the Trump people will argue that the people who have, who have object. The judges who have objected to this are a Biden judge and a Obama judge. An Obama judge. So they'll make this a political issue, obviously.
[24:18]
Joanna
But how does Trump maneuver around this? Because this must be a blow, you've said.
[24:23]
Michael
Well, I think that's a very interesting thing, how he's going to maneuver. First thing, they have a stay on this. They now have a 14 day stay in which work will continue on this. So you can bet that Trump right now is on the phone with the appropriate contractors and Trying to move things along. So he will do this as he has always done real estate projects. And remember, this is the course of his career. Big projects like this, especially in New York City, they always have hurdles that are unexpected, hurdles that go up, stop orders that have to be circumvented. He's in his element. He's alive today because of trying to figure out how to build something that he's not allowed to build, because he understands that once it's built, it's built.
[25:22]
Joanna
Once it's built, it's built. So it's just keep calm, carry on as fast as you can. Can you imagine being the architect on this, on this project, Michael? We've talked about him. Shalom, Varones. And Trump pushed him forward.
[25:34]
Michael
Yeah, well, the architect is not gonna be. Is not gonna be the big issue. It's the contractors on this who have to have to do it. The architect's work is basically done. So he has these guys coming in who are digging the holes and laying the cement and putting up the steel and whatever, and it's those guys who he's yelling at right now. And. And he probably will. And he probably perceives that there's some. There's some moment beyond which they cannot stop this. And I. And actually, I'm not sure how they stop it at this point. There's a big hole there. There is nothing there. Something has to be done.
[26:15]
Joanna
Well, I think they've actually started building it. I mean, you can see the st. Steel rods. You can see the beginning of the kind of foundations of it going in.
[26:24]
Michael
So is the court going to say, well, you have to take that down. You have to rebuild the east wing? Nobody knows. I'm sure Trump already has the satisfaction of knowing that this has all gone too far, that he is already significantly ahead of any decision that is going to be made. And now this goes, of course, to the Supreme Court. This is in the hands of. This is in the hands of Trump's judges. And the Supreme Court is going to be, you know, I think, pretty reluctant to make this. This decision.
[27:00]
Joanna
So what will they do? They'll just toss it back and say, keep it with the court. It's with. We're not taking it.
[27:07]
Michael
I think they will probably issue some decision that will make it possible that we'll have enough ambiguities to let them go forward.
[27:18]
Joanna
Interesting. Interesting. Well, they'll have to interrupt their vacation. This is going to be on the shadow docket as an emergency for them to have to deal with. And, you know, they're probably already set off Clarence Thomas, as Hugh suggested yesterday in our Daily Beast podcast wrapping up the week. You know, Clarence Thomas has probably set off in his RV already and doesn't want to have to get together with his colleagues and discuss this.
[27:43]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure they do discuss much on the shadow docket and I'm not sure that their way around actually won't just punt this and give Trump more time to make more progress on a ballroom. And suddenly at some point there will be a ballroom.
[28:02]
Joanna
Right? It's built and that's been his whole modus that you just make it so
[28:09]
Michael
and actually a question that's as interesting is what does let's assume that there is a, that there is a democratic president in 2029, an anti Trump Democratic president. What does that person do with this ballroom?
[28:30]
Joanna
Well, do they turn it into a center for underprivileged children? Do they make it, you know, a homeless shelter? How would you use it in your biggest revenge against Donald Trump, assuming you are.
[28:46]
Michael
Well, I guess the biggest revenge is that you would take it down and then there will be lawsuits about that. How can you change the you have no authority to change the White House.
[28:58]
Joanna
It's just going to look so strange and it's going to make the White House looks so lopsided.
[29:05]
Michael
And there are not this is not the only project that a Democratic administration will then have to deal with both practically and symbolically.
[29:15]
Joanna
Well, hopefully they can fill the reflecting pool and get that back up and running because it doesn't look like they're going to be able to do that. They're now saying it's probably closed through the spring.
[29:24]
Michael
And the Kennedy center and numerous other projects in two which are now in the process of changing the face of
[29:34]
Joanna
Washington D.C. well, talk about the face
[29:37]
Michael
of Washington and the rose Garden. My 11 year old daughter is particularly focused on the Rose Garden. Yeah, well, and then there's the bathroom, which they've carpeted, which the mold is.
[29:51]
Joanna
I think that's his bedroom. Isn't it though? Isn't that the bathroom off his bedroom where they have to keep changing the carpet because he won't use a mat or whatever. The mold. The mold.
[30:02]
Michael
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[30:19]
Joanna
That's it.
[30:20]
Michael
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[30:25]
Joanna
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy See terms. Well, you talk about the face of Washington, the face that's been at the front of Washington again this week, Anthony Fauci. Rand Paul really is going after him and trying to get him for contempt of court because he used the fifth Amendment or pled the fifth Amendment as many times as he did during his hearing the previous week.
[30:55]
Michael
And so that they have a thing. So the contempt thing is interesting because a contempt thing requires the Senate 60 votes in the Senate and obviously there have not been 60 votes in the Senate. Actually the Senate is on vacation so they can't vote. And anyway there would not be 60 votes. So they have just, they have just sort of. The committee has indicated that they would submit a contempt citation to the full Senate. They would do that, but they can't do that. So that they have just forwarded this there, the committee's own desire for there to be a contempt citation to the Justice Department for prosecution.
[31:41]
Joanna
But that is not so they must have bypassed Congress. I mean they've just, you know, it's Rand Paul's just gone straight there. Right.
[31:47]
Michael
In other words. So this is just more Anthony Fauci pr. Let's do anything. The name Anthony Fauci, which I have trouble understanding why the name Anthony Fauci has come to be so charged and symbolic. And I mean we understand Covid. We understand that there were right decisions and wrong decisions not just in this country, but in any country. And Anthony Fauci has become somehow Anthony Fauci, this 85 year old man, somehow the face of any of the decisions that were made during the, the long year of COVID the long two years
[32:38]
Joanna
of COVID during which children, when it was very clear they weren't at risk, were kept out of school and they were still insistent they wore masks.
[32:46]
Michael
Well, I mean, you're taking an RFK talking point to say that they were very clear that they were not at risk. It was not very clear.
[32:55]
Joanna
Well, it was clear, Michael. It was clear that children weren't at risk. The people that were at risk were older people and they were, they were unhealthy people.
[33:05]
Michael
That was completely untrue. This is clear now in hindsight. It was not clear then and nothing was clear then for Months and months it may have started to become clear, but for months it wasn't clear. Nobody knew. I mean, why would it be clear? Nothing like this had ever happened before. There was actually a curious.
[33:32]
Joanna
No, but I'm talking to your point that after the vaccinations were given a year in, it was clear that children weren't vulnerable to this virus, that the vulnerable were elderly, they were obese people, they were people with pre existing health conditions.
[33:49]
Michael
Well, even then you were still being much more emphatic than, than you would have been at that moment in time. Yes, it was, it turns out to be in hindsight, actually I was pretty
[34:05]
Joanna
emphatic at the time. I was pretty emphatic at the time, especially when people shouted at me for walking on East Hampton beach without a mask when the ear was coming flying from Portugal.
[34:17]
Michael
You have one example of that. I've heard you on the beach in East Hampton numerous times and it is east. Yes, I mean there was all of that. So at any rate, there was this interesting Dana Bash. Is that her name? Dana Bash?
[34:34]
Joanna
Dana Bash on cnn. I know what you're going to say, her interview with rfk, Right.
[34:40]
Michael
And I mean, again, don't get me started on cnn. And Dana Bash is really an exceptional mediocrity, which would be an oxymoron. An exceptional mediocrity. But you know, she got into this back and forth with RFK Jr. And RFK Jr. Said well, you only believe the, you believe the experts. That's where your information came from, the experts. And she kind of looked blinking instead of saying the obvious thing, which was, well, in the middle of a pandemic the likes that no one has ever experienced, that no one had, that none of us had the capacity to understand. We listened to the experts and who else were we going to listen to? RFK Jr. And Anthony Fauci then was for that period of time a reasonable voice, a man with a reasonable expertise. And were there decisions that were made that were, that were incorrect and short sighted? And we know from Anthony Fauci's diaries that he was taken, impressed by, stunned by his own fame. All that is true. But I literally don't see how in the arc of coming to terms with this Anthony Fauci, I don't see the logic by which makes Anthony Fauci, the face of everything that went wrong, the scapegoat for Covid.
[36:22]
Joanna
No, I agree with you. So what's inside Trump's head about Fauci? Why are they doing this? Why is Rand Paul so fixated on him. Why was the first thing that RFK did when he got to H and H was to instruct them to go through Anthony Fauci's diaries and his emails and see what was in there.
[36:41]
Michael
Well, let's look at this from the rfk. It's money in the bank for rfk. Literally every time the word Anthony Fauci comes up, RFK sells more books. Very, very.
[36:53]
Joanna
This is because he wrote an anti Anthony Fauci book. In fact, the only one of his books has really been remotely successful.
[37:04]
Michael
Yes, essentially, Anthony Fauci makes RFK's career. RFK, we should remember, is nowhere is nobody is.
[37:15]
Joanna
Well, it's mocked. It's roundly mocked and assumed to be a fool.
[37:19]
Michael
Well, yeah, it's just a fringe. He's out there. He's a former drug addict. And you know, and he, and you know, he may or may not have some. Had some terrible thing, terrible involvement with the death of his wife. I mean, it's a terrible family situation. Everything, everything is dubious about RFK Jr. Not a player, not a figure, not anybody that anyone believed would do anything. But, you know, but, but, but fade off somewhere and suddenly the Anthony Fauci book during COVID makes this anti vax guy, everybody, I mean, I mean, no one took this seriously. Suddenly makes him a figure to contend with.
[38:08]
Joanna
So do you think it's possible, I mean, especially now we're recording this on a Saturday morning. Todd Blanche just got confirmed this morning. Do you think it's possible that with Todd Blanche now as attorney general, that somehow Anthony Fauci ends up going to jail for contempt of court, that actually they've successfully bypass and that they can get this through?
[38:35]
Michael
No, I don't think so. I mean, I think this is a show.
[38:39]
Joanna
It's just a show.
[38:40]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, and it's appealing to the
[38:44]
Joanna
MAGA base, it's appealing to Florida voters.
[38:48]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, and this is happening at a very specific time, which is that the midterms are coming. We have. We have no issues on our side, basically is the Republican point of view. Everything is against us. So let's revive something here. Anthony Fauci. Oh, my God, thank God for Anthony Fauci. Let's haul him in front of Congress. Let's make him an issue again.
[39:13]
Joanna
So he's the scapegoat.
[39:14]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, also, you know, anticipating this, Joe Biden pardoned Anthony Fauci. So putting him in jail is. Is extremely difficult, if not impossible and certainly unwarranted. Some personality quirks are really funny. Like, I talk to my left foot more than I talk to my right. You know what's not funny and not a personality quirk? Ocd. Although the term OCD is widely recognized, it's misunderstood by most people. It doesn't mean being tidy or clean. It's having obsessive fears, thoughts, and urges. You question your character, you question your safety. That's OCD. Breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. Go to nocd.com to learn more.
[40:06]
Joanna
All right, well, Trump is also, it seems, still obsessed with birthright citizenship. I mean, it's, you know, part of the Constitution. If you are born here, you become a citizen of the US and yet Trump is still fixed on this. It's been tossed out by scotus.
[40:25]
Michael
And I want to get to that point, but I want to do a contrast first, which is that he, curiously, is not fixated on Fauci. This is the Republicans themselves. And I think from Trump's point of view, the Fauci thing, I don't need Fauci. Trump, remember, does not recognize that the Republican Party is in jeopardy. And Fauci, him, he's always liked Fauci. He's actually said largely positive things about Fauci. And in fact, Fauci is part of the brain trust, as it were, that helped Trump get a vaccine. I mean, Trump's singular accomplishment in office was to push through the COVID vaccine.
[41:19]
Joanna
Yeah, Operation warp speed, which should have been the thing that he won the next election on. And instead, he backed away from it, went all anti vaxx. It couldn't have been a more peculiar positioning statement for him.
[41:31]
Michael
So that's not one of his fixations. But it is important to understand his fixations, because he is a politician of fixations. Not policies, not ideology, everything. And when I say fixation, I mean that something has lodged in his head, in Trump's head, where we are, that he can't modify, he can't change, he can't adjust. It is always there. Even if now, in the case of birthright citizenship, which came back this week, birthright citizenship has been one of those things in his head. Birthright citizenship, bad. And he has pursued. There's an executive order about banning birthright citizenship, essentially. And the Supreme Court said, no, this is ridiculous. I mean, in a 6 to 3 decision, this was just, just a few months ago, a 6 to 3 decision said, of course, birthright citizenship is a constitutional right. You know why it's a constitutional right? Because it says it in the Constitution. And it could not have been more emphatic and in fact, everybody in the administration, the full legal battery, everybody was like, okay, this is where this is never going to fly. Why do we do it? We do it because that's what Trump insists on. This is what we have to do. We have to show up in front of the Supreme Court arguing this totally ridiculous position now. And then they lost. And everybody breathed a sigh of relief and said, okay, let's not, you know, let's get away from that as fast as possible. Trump can't get away from these things. He cannot move on. I mean, we're talking about an emotional problem here on these things. And it's not only birthright citizenship, it's tariffs when the Supreme Court throws them out, it's Greenland, which he keeps coming back to. Again and again, these kinds of things stuck in his head. Now this week with birthright citizenship, the Supreme Court ruled against him. And he said to people in the White House, as he does, find a way around it. And they're like, what do we do? And they come up, they do their best. And the best at this point is just some cockamamie stuff, which will immediately be, any court will throw this out. But again, efforts to limit this in efforts to approach a ban on it. And why does he do this? And I think this is really important to understand. This is not for ideological or policy reasons. This is a psychological problem. And once there was somebody, I had this discussion because it's one of those things that you can't. It's one of those what is going on here? Questions. And one of his aides said to me, he's just crazy on the subject. There is nothing that can be done. Nothing crazy on the subject. So when they say crazy on the subject, that's either a colloquial use of the word here or actually not, and it becomes much more of actually a clinical use. He is crazy on this subject. And people recognize that around him. There's no changing his mind, there's no reasoning with him, there's no logic that will appeal to him.
[45:37]
Joanna
Okay, well, this morning he seems pretty crazy with Lisa McKursky, one of the two women that voted against Todd Blanche. She put out on Truth Social that she was a traitor. Nevertheless, Todd Blanche has been confirmed, as we just mentioned, as Attorney General. A bit of an anti climax after
[45:57]
Michael
all, you know, And I have a, I have a some scuttlebutt on that.
[46:04]
Joanna
I love your scuttlebutt.
[46:06]
Michael
In which from the beginning of this Todd Blanche confirmation, I was told by people around Trump, we have it this is not gonna be a problem. And I was like, well, you don't know what you're talking about. Obviously, there's gonna be a problem. I read the New York Times. I know there are Republicans who are. Who are not gonna vote for this. I mean, Republicans who hate Trump because he's opposed them in their primary bids and they've lost their careers. They're gonna be a significant problem for you. And they were right and I was wrong. So, in other words, all of this has been just a show. They knew all along that Cornyn and Tillis were going to blow smoke in the Blanche confirmation hearings, but in the end, they were going to vote. And they knew all along that they would lose Collins and Lisa Mikowski. Lisa Makowski, because they have. It's going to be much more helpful to them with their own particular basis. And it wouldn't mean anything. Blanche was going to be elected. So this is just a Republican charade.
[47:34]
Joanna
They knew about Collins, they knew about Murkowski. This was all. It's literally a charade. And Bill Cassidy, who suddenly wheeled in at the end to pretend. And he's been primaried. Out of his.
[47:46]
Michael
Exactly.
[47:46]
Joanna
Out of his senatorship, that it's just window dressing. It's just them trying to totally.
[47:52]
Michael
And nothing has changed. So we've set up the controversy that Republicans can somehow hide behind, that they weren't all complicit in this, you know, in Trump making a deal, a tax deal with himself that will save him $100 million and his family, and forever and ever, he'll never have to pay taxes again.
[48:17]
Joanna
And they can revive the idea of the $1.8 billion slush fund for people that were right.
[48:22]
Michael
So nothing. Nothing has. Nothing has changed. They got nothing out of their objections to Scott to Blanch, and which everyone knew. The White House knew this is exactly how it would turn out.
[48:38]
Joanna
Well, I did say. We did predict that John Cornyn and Thom Tillis were creating a lot of hot air, but in the end, they would end up voting for Trump because they don't want the hassle. They don't want to be pursued by him afterwards when they leave. They want an opportunity to make money.
[48:54]
Michael
Yes. And still I. And while I predicted that, I always thought, well, you know, somebody. Somebody is going to do something.
[49:06]
Joanna
So you have a line in your substack this week, which is a series on Melania, the First lady, the missing first lady, which I was struck by. This is a line about Donald Trump, and it's about when Viagra comes out and he Says his issue is that he doesn't need a pill to help him get it up. He needs a pill to help him take it down, which was just such an unpleasant image. But it's an interesting piece about Melania and about their. How he likes her as a sort of. Well, obviously as arm candy. And Nelle Scovell and I have done a four parter on Trump's women, which we're going to start running on Sundays. The first one debuts tomorrow. But it surfaced for us that quote that he once gave. It doesn't really matter what you do as long as you have a nice piece of ass on your arm.
[50:03]
Michael
No, I mean, Trump is. I mean, the entire career. It's why it's such a striking thing that he actually became the president. I mean, among the things, but this may be the most striking, that Donald Trump has had a career that was dedicated to sex. There's that quote. He would go around for years and years saying that he wanted to beat Wilt Chamberlain's record. Now Wilt Chamberlain's record is apparently at twenty thousand.
[50:36]
Joanna
Twenty thousand. Twenty thousand. Good Lord.
[50:41]
Michael
And whether that. I'm sure that, that, that is.
[50:44]
Joanna
There must be a strain. There must be a strain of an sti, which is just Chamberlain. It's. Have you got the Chamberlain? I'm surprised there isn't one of Donald Trump. Did you ever get that? Because don't you remember he said at one point, his Vietnam, he said this to Howard Stern. His Vietnam was avoiding the landmines of STIs when he was clubbing at Studio 54.
[51:06]
Michael
Yeah, no, I mean all of those Howard Stern interviews. And it's interesting that Howard Stern has now turned against Donald Trump. That's a measure of something. But for many years, essentially, Donald Trump went on the Howard Stern show and described his sex life ebulliently. Described his sex life ebulliently.
[51:32]
Joanna
Is that the same as ebulliently?
[51:36]
Michael
Yes, it is.
[51:37]
Joanna
I've never heard it pronounced like that before.
[51:40]
Michael
Well, that's the way we pronounce it in New Jersey.
[51:45]
Joanna
I've never heard it pronounced like that before. Anyway, an enthusiastic describer of his sex life. And now, of course, it turns out a lot of his sex life was allegedly forced upon people.
[51:59]
Michael
Well, yeah, I mean, it was just constant. So obviously it was in all manner, shape or form. That's what Donald Trump did. And then Melania comes along. He marries Melania not principally for domestic succor, but because she is on his arm. She does represent what he wants to be known as now the interesting thing is that that changes at some point. I mean, she has a child, gets older, is not interested in being that. I mean, she's interested in respectability, actually, in being ladies who lunch in Manhattan and he's not. And then we know the, I mean, we know the Storming Daniels thing happens. The grab them by the pussy thing happens. Actually just right in the middle of. Right when Melania is pregnant, she's nursing Baron.
[53:08]
Joanna
Right. Didn't it happen after she was nursing Baron?
[53:12]
Michael
I think she's still pregnant. But anyway, right in that, certainly in that window, and then he goes. And then he becomes the President of the United States. And everyone. Actually, this was probably the most surprising thing to everyone around Donald Trump, which was how was he gonna deal with this? I mean, how was a guy who was absolutely committed to his own, to his, to a constant sexual pursuit going to be the President of the United States? What happens?
[53:48]
Joanna
Well, wasn't that. But the fault of that was that assuming that people thought that would be disqualifying. In fact, it turns out that people like people who. Or it's not disqualifying to have a high. I guess what he was trying to convey, whether or not this is true, because sometimes people say it and of course it's not true, which is why they say it in the first place, that he had a high sex drive, you know.
[54:16]
Michael
Yeah. I mean, that was sort of his position on this. But I think that that's still. I mean, this has never happened before in American history. People, presidents, politicians, were held accountable to a middle class domestic standard and.
[54:37]
Joanna
Well, and also perhaps a Christian standard in terms of, you know, because you're trying to carry the evangelical vote that you're trying to present as a, As a regular family guy.
[54:50]
Michael
Yeah, well, I know. Yeah. I mean, salt was also a Jewish standard. I mean, it was there, there was no, I mean, this is, no, there's no ideological or, or spiritual basis to this. It was a. The convention of proper life. This is about respectability. And discretion. And all of those things that have come to seem as this is what reasonable, not to mention good people do. I mean, we don't want to know about anything else, especially if you're the President of the United States. We really don't want to know this. And that clearly changed for reasons that I'm still not sure that people have worked out. But one of the things that it does is also have an effect on the marriage itself. So we're looking at a marriage essentially every day, looking at a marriage, even Though they try to kind of disguise it in, which displays all of the tensions of an inveterate philanderer and a unhappy, hurt wife.
[56:12]
Joanna
Well, the column is a very interesting column. I read it and it gave me a perspective on Melania that I hadn't sort of thought of before, and especially this week. Cause I've been discussing her with Nell and. And she's clearly just decided to be out of the picture.
[56:31]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure she has been, you know, she has been there is out of the picture and she's clearly in New York and she's clearly not in the White House.
[56:40]
Joanna
Not in the White House.
[56:41]
Michael
But I think that she is waging her own particular rear guard action against her husband.
[56:49]
Joanna
Well, and I think, you know, post menopause, which I'm assuming she is. She gives zero fucking anymore.
[56:58]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure that that's true. I actually think she cares. I think she's wounded by this. I think she's embarrassed by this. I think it's something that it's very difficult to live with. And I think she has, obviously she has a child, she's embarrassed for the child. She's embarrassed in front of the child. And, and in that regard has decided to make her own separate piece in a way, or at least make her own separate business.
[57:35]
Joanna
Well, and she seems slightly revolted by him physically too, which I can understand. Well, I found it really interesting. Substack Michael. And recommend it highly as part of your Melania series. We will be back on Tuesday. No doubt the world will have turned. There will be more for us to discuss. Who knows if Anthony Fauci will be behind bars? I don't think even Round Paul can move that fast. But who knows what Todd Blanche is going to do as Attorney General. We will find out and we will be inside Trump's head tracking it. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. Share this episode with a friend. You too can argue about Anthony Fauci at home or Todd Blanche or wherever you think Melania came from.
[58:21]
Michael
Or Mark Wayne Mullen and where his name comes from?
[58:24]
Joanna
Yes. Do you have thoughts about where Mark Wayne Mullin's name came from? Very good question. Do you know, is there a Mark Wayne in your life? Is there a Mark Wayne in your life? Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.
[58:51]
Michael
Best thing that's ever happened to you, financially. Go easy. Sold my car on Carvana. Amazing offer, really. I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check?
[59:02]
Joanna
No.
[59:02]
Michael
How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once.
[59:07]
Joanna
Okay, that's fair.
[59:08]
Michael
It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly. In inexplicably good offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.
[59:22]
Joanna
Traditional home security only alerts you after a break in. And that's too late. Simplisafe is changing that.
[59:28]
Michael
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[59:30]
Joanna
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[59:43]
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[59:47]
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[59:48]
Michael
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Summary8 min read

Podcast Summary: Inside Trump's Head

Episode: "What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation"
Host(s): Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Date: August 9, 2026

Episode Overview

This week's episode unpacks the psychological, political, and operatic drama surrounding Donald Trump’s halted White House “Trojan Ballroom” project, familial rivalries, body image obsession in the Trump sphere, Trump’s enduring fixations (like birthright citizenship), and why figures such as Anthony Fauci and various cabinet officials remain lightning rods in the MAGA era. Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles combine insider reporting with biting wit as they probe not just what Trump does, but what drives his decisions—and those of the people around him.

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Trojan Ballroom" Standoff

Trump’s Motive: Trump’s desperate push to build a massive ballroom at the White House, notionally for “national security” (military-grade hospital, bunker, drone port), but actually, as Wolff argues, to serve his need for an audience and spectacle.
- “Trump really wants the ballroom. He likes big events, he likes big audiences. The bigger, the better, the more opportunities for Donald Trump to appear before an audience. So this is not about national security. This is about Donald Trump.” (Michael, 00:34)
Court Drama: A recent court ruling blocked construction, granting a 14-day stay. Trump’s frenzied response: calling contractors with urgent demands to accelerate work before the stay expires.
- “He’s on the phone with the contractors, yelling, faster, faster, faster. Get this done. We’ve got a deadline. Build, build.” (Michael, 00:53; 22:54)
Judicial Pushback: Joanna quotes the court’s “scathing” admonishment that presidents are temporary tenants, not owners entitled to reshape the White House as they wish. (Joanna, 23:06)
Real Estate Mindset: Wolff compares Trump’s approach to classic real estate tactics—pushing through “irresistible” progress, assuming once the hole is dug and steel’s up, he can strongarm the process to completion. Barrier = challenge, not deterrent.
Supreme Court Angle: Trump expects his judicial appointees to bail him out; hosts speculate SCOTUS might “punt” or give leeway, but legal ambiguity is mounting.

2. Absurdities and Symbolic Overreach

Drone Port and Military Bunker: The “Trojan Ballroom” is said to have a drone port, adding layers of symbolic and logistical excess to the project. Wolff and Coles mock the national security justification as a fig leaf for Trump’s personal desires.
Legacy Issues: What happens if/when a Democratic president inherits the ballroom? Suggestions veer from homeless shelter to demolition, with inevitable lawsuits and visual oddity for the White House.
- “...What does that person do with this ballroom?” (Michael, 28:08)

3. Trumpworld’s Body Politics

Women’s “Trump Uniform”: Near-universal expectation that women in Trump’s orbit conform to a Fox News aesthetic—thin, fit, hair down, short skirts.
- “All of the women around Trump have to conform to a prescribed body type.” (Michael, 07:34)
Commentary on Lara Trump: Her failed career attempts—Senate races, RNC leadership, Fox News hosting—see Trump undercutting anyone (even family) who might outshine or compete with him.
- “He doesn't want family members to succeed... He doesn't want family members to compete with him, is the point.” (Michael, 06:13)
Male “Brosphere”: The fixation extends to men—parading “hard body” types and ex-athletes (Markwayne Mullin, Pete Hegseth, RFK Jr. working out in jeans), while Trump himself notably ignores these ideals.
- “Trump himself is clearly a physical slob. Your favorite or my favorite quote of Steve Bannon's, he looks like a giant shrimp.” (Joanna, 10:32)
Physical Insecurities and Symbolism: Wolff notes Trump’s deep resentment toward people in his circle who physically stand out (negatively or positively), linking it to his competitive, image-obsessed psyche.

4. The Markwayne Mullin Paradox

Background and Incompetence: New Homeland Security Secretary Markwayne Mullin, highlighted for his gym stints more than his qualifications, is off-message on immigration—allowing for possible exceptions, which infuriates Trump.
- “Mark Wayne Mullen is off message... Immigrants are bad. They’ve got to go. There should be no exception... What are you talking about?” (Michael, 14:37)
Rivalries and Ambitions: Speculation about whether Mullin’s softening is strategic (positioning for his own political future) or just confusion/incompetence.
- “Do you think that's a rather generous interpretation? … He may also be positioning himself for 2028.” (Joanna, 16:47-17:07)

5. Trump’s "Fixations" Versus Policy

Birthright Citizenship: Trump refuses to let go of ideas like repealing birthright citizenship, even after the Supreme Court (6-3) rejected his efforts as unconstitutional.
- “He cannot modify, he cannot change... it’s a psychological problem. One of his aides said to me, he’s just crazy on the subject. There is nothing that can be done.” (Michael, 43:08-44:16)
Pattern: Similar obsessions—tariffs, Greenland, etc.—are not policy-based, but manifestations of “emotional problems” and an inability to move on.
Administrative Whiplash: Aides scramble to create “workarounds” for lost causes, simply to appease Trump’s stubbornness.

6. Political Theatre & Judicial Charades

Todd Blanche Confirmation: Republican “opposition” to Trump’s controversial Attorney General pick turns out to be smoke and mirrors; the administration knew they’d have the votes all along.
- “This is just a Republican charade.” (Michael, 47:46)
- “We’ve set up the controversy that Republicans can somehow hide behind, that they weren’t all complicit in this…” (Michael, 47:51)
Republican Calculus: Senators don’t want Trump’s wrath post-retirement; all objections are performative rather than real. (Joanna, 48:38)

7. The Fauci Scapegoat Saga

Rand Paul and MAGA Target Fauci: Latest push to hold Fauci in contempt is “just a show” to rally the base before midterms—Fauci’s no longer relevant to Trump personally, but remains a convenient Republican bogeyman.
- “This is a show... It’s appealing to the MAGA base, it’s appealing to Florida voters.” (Michael, 38:39-38:47)
RFK Jr. and Conspiracies: RFK Jr.’s own anti-Fauci campaign has given him unexpected relevance; every mention of Fauci is “money in the bank.”
Trump’s View: Wolff clarifies that, paradoxically, Trump himself “always liked Fauci” and credits him with helping deliver the COVID vaccine—yet Trump has abandoned “Operation Warp Speed” politically because it’s no longer advantageous.
- “Trump, remember, does not recognize that the Republican Party is in jeopardy... He’s always liked Fauci.” (Michael, 40:24)

8. Intimate Trump: Sex, Marriage, and Respectability

Sexual Reputation: Trump’s public boasting about his sex life (and denigration of women) is dissected—highlighting both the grotesque (wanting to “beat Wilt Chamberlain’s record,” Michael, 50:03) and the strategic (arm-candy view of Melania).
- “He once gave... It doesn’t really matter what you do as long as you have a nice piece of ass on your arm.” (Joanna, 49:56)
Melania’s Absence: Wolff’s new columns explore Melania’s physical and symbolic retreat, her response to humiliation (Stormy Daniels, “grab them by the pussy”), and her quiet rebellion, including protecting her son Barron and seeking respectability while shunning White House life.
- “She’s embarrassed for the child. She’s embarrassed in front of the child—and in that regard, has decided to make her own separate piece.” (Michael, 56:58)
- “She seems slightly revolted by him physically too, which I can understand.” (Joanna, 57:35)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

On Trump’s compulsions:

“He is a politician of fixations. Not policies, not ideology... something has lodged in his head, in Trump’s head, where we are, that he can’t modify, he can’t change, he can’t adjust. It is always there.”
— Michael, 41:31
On the court’s response to the ballroom:

“Congress has not ceded unfettered authority to the executive branch to dramatically redesign, reshape and reconstruct the White House, the people’s House, to fit a particular president’s desires… Each president is a temporary tenant, not the owner of the White House and its executive residence.”
— Joanna, quoting the court, 23:06
On Melania’s coping:

“I actually think she cares. I think she’s wounded by this. I think she’s embarrassed by this... she’s embarrassed for the child, she’s embarrassed in front of the child...”
— Michael, 56:58
On Republican opposition to Todd Blanche:

“This is just a Republican charade.”
— Michael, 47:46
On Trump’s real priorities:

“This is not about national security, this is about Donald Trump.”
— Michael, 22:06/00:34 (reiterated)
On Trump family rivalry:

“He doesn't want family members to succeed... He doesn't want family members to compete with him, is the point.”
— Michael, 06:13

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Timestamp | Topic/Quote | |-----------|-----------------------------------------------| | 00:34 | “Trump really wants the ballroom...” | | 03:34 | Trump's family/workout/loyalty rivalries | | 07:34 | “All the women around Trump...” | | 10:32 | Trump’s own body compared to “giant shrimp” | | 14:37 | Trump’s irritation with Markwayne Mullin | | 22:06 | “This is not about national security...” | | 23:06 | Quoting judge’s rebuke of Trump’s ballroom | | 28:08 | “What does [the next president] do with this ballroom?” | | 41:31 | Trump’s unshakable fixations explained | | 43:08 | Birthright citizenship as psychological problem| | 47:46 | “This is just a Republican charade.” | | 49:56 | Trump’s vulgar quote about women (“piece of ass”)| | 50:03 | Sex boasts; Wilt Chamberlain comparison | | 56:58 | Melania’s emotional reality |

Tone and Style

The conversation is candid, irreverent, sometimes biting—mixing high-level political analysis with banter, personal anecdotes, and sharp observations. Wolff brings longstanding insider perspective; Coles probes and instigates, then pivots to wider cultural resonance. Both hosts treat Trump as a psychological phenomenon as much as a political one.

In Summary

This episode’s surgical exploration of Trump’s psyche—especially through the never-ending “ballroom” saga, family ambitions, and scapegoating of foes like Fauci—offers both context and color to the ever-absurd, ever-revealing American political realignment under Trump. The hosts argue that what looks on the surface like pragmatism or policy is, with Trump, so often unresolved personal needs, fixations, and resentments—now waging war with legal, institutional, and psychological limits in continuing real time.

Loading summary

Transcript173 lines

[00:01]
Michael
Fox News is streaming live on Fox One when it matters most. You want the truth from the voices you trust. Fox News goes beyond the headlines, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective at home or on the go. Stay connected when it counts. Stream Fox News on Fox 1 download. Today, Trump is adding on these things as justifications for the ballroom. Trump really wants the ballroom. He likes big events, he likes big audiences. The bigger, the better, the more opportunities for Donald Trump to appear before an audience. So this is not about national security. This is about Donald Trump.
[00:47]
Joanna
What is Trump's reaction to this court ruling that the ballroom, you know, is going to be stopped?
[00:53]
Michael
They've given him a stay of 14 days, so he's on the phone with the contractors, yelling, faster, faster, faster. Get this done. We've got a deadline. Build, build. Michael, Joanna.
[01:12]
Joanna
Another Saturday. Where are we going?
[01:17]
Michael
Yeah, You know, I'm pausing on that because I'm not sure I ever leave. So the idea of going in is. An uncertain place. I am in Trump's head. I have been in Trump's head for more than 10 years now, which is extraordinary. I mean, that is the. I mean, and I suppose the entire world has been inside Trump's head in their own fashion. So the idea that we enter now is not true. It's that we have a. We are acknowledging that that is the perspective that we all have. And the difference that we bring, actually, is the journalistic perspective that we are looking in, that this is. Trump is in the White House, we're outside the White House, and that is how we report on him is inaccurate. First thing, you're not going to get the story if that's your point of view. And it's also not true. We all have. And Trump is not incorrect about this. A Trump derangement syndrome we have done. He has pulled us in to this syndrome, and that is his actual political strength. You can't escape this guy.
[02:50]
Joanna
Okay, so for anyone new joining us, Michael hasn't left Trump's brain for the last 10 years where he's been writing about Donald Trump. I have started tiptoeing more recently into Trump's head with Michael as my guide. And, well, we just have so much to get through today before we get to it. I just want to ask you to like and subscribe and please share this podcast with your friends. We're independent media, so we appreciate your support. We love your comments. We pour over your comments, and if you want to write a limerick, you can.
[03:27]
Michael
JOANNA pours over Your comments.
[03:29]
Joanna
I do pour over the comments, actually. Michael goes in and out of the comments and sometimes I send him comments.
[03:35]
Michael
I skim.
[03:36]
Joanna
You skim. But you read books and you accuse me of skimming books. Anyway, anyway, we don't need to get into our, into our endless ongoing feuds, but we do need to tell people that we're going to be talking about Anthony Fauci and Trump's and MAGA's sort of obsession with him. Why are they so hysterical? The Trojan Ballroom, which has really got layers and layers of other things going on in it and of course has just been stopped by the courts. Todd Blanche finally, finally got what he wanted. But at what cost? Cost. But I really want to start, Michael, with the fact that we should have an inside Trump's head workout. I think both you and I spend too much time at the computer and we should, what is it called? License a workout for our listeners and viewers that they can do alongside us as we discuss the end.
[04:38]
Michael
Well, I actually think it should be more rightly be a mental workout. How do you get Trump out of your head?
[04:46]
Joanna
Okay, we can do that.
[04:47]
Michael
I know the workout that you're actually trying to get to. So let's, let's rush.
[04:54]
Joanna
Let's get to it. Let's get to it. We're going to do a little workout together. Fox News 9:00pm, My view on Saturday night. You guys are whipping everybody into shape at dhs. We are.
[05:04]
Michael
Listen, the Coast Guard's leading the way. DHS will protect our homeland, right? Yeah. So we need to look intimidating because every single day we're going to work, there's not a day that we have a rest day. There's not a day that we have a peace day. Every day from the Coast Guard, ice cbp. Our mission is protect the homeland and there's always somebody trying to get in.
[05:21]
Joanna
What folks at home may not be aware of is that we didn't just have any instructor for the workout. The secretary was the instructor for the workout. So you don't want to miss what we've got coming up this Saturday night. Impressive.
[05:34]
Michael
She was impressed. Impressive. She stayed in there, didn't miss a rep. I was, I was impressed.
[05:39]
Joanna
I appreciate it.
[05:41]
Michael
A 9 by 8 workout and it's a rough workout. That's pretty impressive.
[05:44]
Joanna
I didn't come to lose. She didn't come to lose. That is Lara Trump, who's twice tried to get her father in law's endorsement for a Senate seat. First in North Carolina, where she's from, then secondly in Florida and in Fact. Then she was given a show, My View with Lara Trump on Fox and she was doing an interview with Mark Wayne Mullen while she was doing a workout with him because she's a crazy athlete.
[06:13]
Michael
And actually this is her second show on Fox. Her first show got canceled. One of the interesting things about Lara Trump is she has tried to make a career off of the Trump presidency, off of her father in law and not succeeded. I mean, sort of over and over again either to run for office or then she was for a period the head of the rnc. Again, she had a show on Fox, canceled then, now she apparently has another show on Fox. She's in there pitching, but I'm not sure this is again, that kind of thing. Family members. He doesn't want family members to succeed. I mean, he doesn't want family members to compete with him, is the point.
[07:09]
Joanna
Interesting. Well, we also have a picture of her here which I wanted to flag because this is just such a funny picture. First of all, she's got fantastic arms. Laura, I salute your arms. It does look as if Eric is trying very hard to stop her from running away. As we said in our Swamp newsletter this week,
[07:33]
Michael
it feels like every day there's another story you're supposed to have an opinion about and somehow you're expected to figure out what's actually true while everyone else is yelling at you about it. That's where our sponsor Straight Arrow, comes in. Straight Arrow focuses on the facts and context behind the stories that matter. Without manipulation, bias or an agenda, you're able to compare coverage across the political spectrum and get a clearer sense of what's actually happening. Instead of getting pulled into another media echo chamber. You can also start your weekday mornings with their fact driven, unbiased updates and go deeper into the issues of influencing your everyday life. To me, that's what trustworthy journalism should do, help you understand what's happening instead of adding to the noise. If you want a better way to get your news and you haven't downloaded the Straight Arrow app yet, now's the time. They're about to launch their new subscription and members get access to exclusive launch discounts. Before everyone else, go to san.com inside trumpshead to get the unbiased truth on the stories that matter only on the Straight Arrow app. Let's exit the echo chamber. Let's talk about Trump body types because I think it's, it's really interesting that at first thing, all of the women around Trump, all of them, 100% of the women around Trump have to conform to a prescribed body type. I mean, they all have to be very thin, they all have to be very fit, they all have to wear their hair down, they all have to wear their skirts short. I mean, it is, it, it's just the, the Trump uniform. Uniform for, for women under. I was going to say under a certain age, but they're all basically under a certain age.
[09:40]
Joanna
Well, it's also. It was a sort of Roger Ailes body type, too. Right. It's not, not dissimilar.
[09:45]
Michael
Very, very Fox. Yes, very Fox. I mean, only Susie Wiles is outside of that. But, yes, it's a very, very clear Fox body type. Roger understood them. I mean, there's something. This is too deep for me into the conservative view, into that cultural. Wherever that comes from. Vegas. Partly something that is different from part of the cultural split between what the coast, New York, what blue states see as, as a, you know, as a, I don't know, as a recognizing women as a sexy body type, as any kind of.
[10:32]
Joanna
Well, it's a sort of cliched, over feminized version of themselves. But it's not just the women's bodies, it's the men's bodies. Right. I mean, what's so fascinating is that fascinating, too? Yeah. Because Trump himself is clearly a physical slob. Your favorite or my favorite quote of Steve Bannon's, he looks like a giant shrimp. Regular viewers and observers will know I think he looks more like a bison because it's all sort of going on in his shoulders and as he increasingly slumps. But the fascination that he has with the sort of. I guess it's the brosphere's influence, but these kind of hard bodies. Pete Hegseth always working out. We're always seeing these guys in the gym. And now we've got Mark Wayne Mullen,
[11:16]
Michael
a former fighter, rfk.
[11:18]
Joanna
Of course, rfk, famously works out in jeans, doesn't use gym pants like everybody else.
[11:25]
Michael
And in fact, worth noting, one of the things of the many things that Trump had against Steve Bannon is the way Steve Bannon looked.
[11:34]
Joanna
Interesting. Interesting. Well, Steve Bannon could also do with a workout, but Mark Wayne Mullen was an interesting choice because we think that Trump has been leaking about Mark Wayne Mullen not doing a very good job. Now, Lara was working out with him as the new secretary for Homeland Security with the Coast Guard. He said because it was important, they look intimidating. I would like to venture the reason they look intimidating, Ice that he's in charge of is because they wear masks and they stop people who Are not doing anything wrong. But why do you think she was doing it with Mark Wayne Mullen? Is she trying to get him a boost?
[12:10]
Michael
Can I have. Have you ever heard of this name Mark Wayne before?
[12:14]
Joanna
No. I know he was a fighter. And also his family has a plumbing business.
[12:19]
Michael
Yeah, but Mark. So he has two first names put together. This is, this is. I mean, maybe this is a common name. I don't know. I've certainly never heard of it.
[12:28]
Joanna
Do you think the Wayne is. Well, it could be a family name. Mark Wayne, but it could be. But they're Wayne reference to John Wayne.
[12:36]
Michael
Yeah, I don't know. But they're written, they're together.
[12:40]
Joanna
It's like Mary Jane. Maybe they thought he was going to be a girl and they were going to call him Mary Jane. And so Mark Wayne is almost the masculine version of that.
[12:51]
Michael
No idea. And do we know where he came from? Do we know anything about this guy who just sort of appeared on the scene except that he seems to be fit?
[13:02]
Joanna
He does seem to be fit, or at least he seems to work out. We've no idea if he's actually fit. Cause he could be a thin fatty. Although probably not. We also know that his number two that he's brought in was in fact a highway patrolman before he led Mark Wayne's security detail. And now he's brought in, he's been brought in as number two. Something that Tom Omens was annoyed by.
[13:29]
Michael
Did any of these people go to college? I mean, I know it's Michael.
[13:34]
Joanna
What a bougie elite question. Did these people go to college? So bougie. So elite.
[13:40]
Michael
Yeah, no, no, it is that. And the follow up to that is, does anybody know anything about any thing? Well, let's go back to. So, okay, so Mark Wayne Mullen has had this job not very long. He replaced the infamous Kristi Noem, also very fit.
[14:03]
Joanna
Yes. Always working out. And with Corey Lewandowski by her side.
[14:11]
Michael
And curiously, Corey was fit too. Everybody except Trump, who is the exact opposite of that. Let's remember £300 and stuffing himself at every single second with sugar and fat.
[14:31]
Joanna
Well, and also someone who put on in the world of GLP1s has put on £15 in the last year.
[14:38]
Michael
So Trump is leaking his irritation with Mark Wayne Mullen and for two reasons that Mark Wayne Mullen is off message. I mean, essentially he goes around. I mean, the message from the Trump White House is without ambiguity. Immigrants are bad. They've got to go. There should be no exception. And Mark Wayne Mullen has now over the past week or so, given a series of speeches in which he basically outlines exceptions. Well, it's not gonna be that bad. I mean, yeah, it seems bad. Not gonna be that bad. We're looking to do it this way. And if, you know, Haitians can just do their paperwork, maybe they'll be okay. And Trump is saying, what are you talking about? Immigrants are bad. We want them to go. There should be no exclusions.
[15:37]
Joanna
And I think Mark Wayne Mullen had said to a group of businessme, I get it, some industries need more immigrants than others. I think we can figure it out.
[15:49]
Michael
So either Mark Wayne Mullen is trying to appeal to. A slightly less Trump base than the Trump base, or he just doesn't know how to give the message, he doesn't know how to do it, which I suspect is. Is the case because this seems to be a guy who wants to do anything to please Donald Trump, anything to hold on to his job. But I think it's probably confusing to him to have to speak in these absolute, categorical, Stephen Miller like terms because, A, they sound so, so cruel and they sound so impossible to achieve and they sound so. Yeah, cruel, nasty. He probably doesn't want to be so nasty.
[16:48]
Joanna
Or do you think that's a rather generous interpretation? I mean, is it possible that he's trying to do a JD and put some distance between himself and Trump because as a former championship fighter, he may also be positioning himself for 2020. Well,
[17:08]
Michael
that seems to me quite a leap, frankly. Mark Wayne Mullen, who we have never heard of, we don't even know if he went to college.
[17:16]
Joanna
People in the broosphere have heard about him, though. He comes from that world, the Dana White world. He was a fighter.
[17:24]
Michael
Yeah, sure. I mean, listen, we know now anybody can run for president. There is no barrier. College education, not required. Knowing anything, not required. That's for sure. That would still seem to me to be somewhat of a leap year. But why not? Yeah, I think Mark Wayne Mullen should run for president. Why not?
[17:50]
Joanna
But also, they run because even if they don't think they're going to get it, it's going to be good for their brand. It's going to give them better recognition. They might get better tables in a restaurant. They might find it easier to raise money or get a board. I. It just elevates people's profile. So it's now being seen, I think, as something that's additive if you have a social media profile and you want to be famous.
[18:11]
Michael
But practically speaking, in order for him to run for president, he would have to leave this job almost immediately and he may be fired. So maybe that's it. But then his qualifications would be essentially, I had a job for a few months in the Trump administration, maybe that's enough. But I think on a larger basis, what we're going to see is more irritation from Trump as he sees or as he suspects, he sees people trying to gain distance from him. So even if Mark Wayne Mullen is not trying just because he, he can't stay on message, just that perception of any kind of distance is going to start to irritate Trump. And we're going to see this across the board. Everybody in the administration, including J.D. vance, is going to start to seek distance from Trump, which will irritate Trump, which will cause a backlash from Trump. Summer's full of reasons to look your best to Covis Western boots are handcrafted in over 200 steps with premium cowhide and exotic leathers. And they're comfortable right out of the box. No break in period. Just boots you can wear all summer long. Their performance shirting and premium denim keep you cool and put together wherever the season takes you. And of course, you can always stop by to covis.com to Covas Forever West.
[19:49]
Joanna
Well, if Mark Wayne Mullin does go, at least he's tried his best to keep the DHS fit. And I was actually wondering if there's going to be a gym in what appears to be a Trojan horse of this ballroom, which literally contains multitudes. I mean, it's got a military grade hospital, it's got a bunker. Now it's got a drone port on the roof, which Trump immediately started truth socialing after a court basically put a halt on the ballroom. What could possibly go wrong? A drone port on the roof of the White house in downtown D.C. yeah,
[20:28]
Michael
actually, there's a couple of points here. This is Trump is adding on these things as justifications for the ballroom. In fact, he just wants the ballroom and is trying to say, well, if there's this and there's this and there's this, it's not just the ballroom, but Trump just wants the ballroom. Having said that, it is true that the White House is kind of a front, a facade on a military installation. I mean, we don't know this, but it really is a contained military base underneath the White House that we see
[21:12]
Joanna
to protect the president.
[21:14]
Michael
Well, to protect the president. And to protect really the full executive branch of the government. And when you're there.
[21:28]
Joanna
Have you been down there?
[21:30]
Michael
Yes. When you're there, you can start to Feel this. I mean, you feel the military presence. And if you have then any access to the underground or the behind the scenes, then you really start to feel the military presence.
[21:47]
Joanna
Well, it's true you feel the military presence because there are uniformed officers absolutely everywhere when you go there, usually making sure that you're not trying to slip away into a different part of the White House to snoop around, I think. But I didn't realize it was a sort of military base underneath it. I suppose that stands to reason.
[22:07]
Michael
But having said that, this is not the Trump reason. Trump really wants the ballroom. I mean, what's the ballroom? Because he wants, you know, big audiences. Another this is an, essentially what he's creating is a venue. That's what he wants. He likes big events, he likes big audiences. The bigger, the better, the more people, the more, the more opportunities for Donald Trump to appear before an audience. So this is not about national security, this is about Donald Trump.
[22:45]
Joanna
So, Michael, what is Trump's reaction to this court ruling that he's got to, that the ballroom is going to be stopped?
[22:54]
Michael
Yeah, I mean, they've given him 14 days, a stay of 14 days. So he's on the phone with the contractors yelling, faster, faster, faster. Get this done. We've got a deadline. Build, build.
[23:07]
Joanna
Can I just read you the judge's scathing report yesterday, or at least one line from it? Congress has not ceded unfettered authority to the executive branch to dramatically redesign, reshape and reconstruct the White House, the people's House, to fit a particular president's desires, the panel wrote in its 2 to 1 ruling. With only a Trump appointed judge dissenting. Each president is a temporary tenant, not the owner of the White House and its executive residence. I mean, this seems like pretty much of a double slap to Trump.
[23:43]
Michael
Yeah. But just to make a slight correction there, just to say only a Trump judge dissenting. The. That. That represents one third of the panel.
[23:54]
Joanna
Right.
[23:56]
Michael
And, and that will be. And the Trump, the Trump people will argue that the people who have, who have object. The judges who have objected to this are a Biden judge and a Obama judge. An Obama judge. So they'll make this a political issue, obviously.
[24:18]
Joanna
But how does Trump maneuver around this? Because this must be a blow, you've said.
[24:23]
Michael
Well, I think that's a very interesting thing, how he's going to maneuver. First thing, they have a stay on this. They now have a 14 day stay in which work will continue on this. So you can bet that Trump right now is on the phone with the appropriate contractors and Trying to move things along. So he will do this as he has always done real estate projects. And remember, this is the course of his career. Big projects like this, especially in New York City, they always have hurdles that are unexpected, hurdles that go up, stop orders that have to be circumvented. He's in his element. He's alive today because of trying to figure out how to build something that he's not allowed to build, because he understands that once it's built, it's built.
[25:22]
Joanna
Once it's built, it's built. So it's just keep calm, carry on as fast as you can. Can you imagine being the architect on this, on this project, Michael? We've talked about him. Shalom, Varones. And Trump pushed him forward.
[25:34]
Michael
Yeah, well, the architect is not gonna be. Is not gonna be the big issue. It's the contractors on this who have to have to do it. The architect's work is basically done. So he has these guys coming in who are digging the holes and laying the cement and putting up the steel and whatever, and it's those guys who he's yelling at right now. And. And he probably will. And he probably perceives that there's some. There's some moment beyond which they cannot stop this. And I. And actually, I'm not sure how they stop it at this point. There's a big hole there. There is nothing there. Something has to be done.
[26:15]
Joanna
Well, I think they've actually started building it. I mean, you can see the st. Steel rods. You can see the beginning of the kind of foundations of it going in.
[26:24]
Michael
So is the court going to say, well, you have to take that down. You have to rebuild the east wing? Nobody knows. I'm sure Trump already has the satisfaction of knowing that this has all gone too far, that he is already significantly ahead of any decision that is going to be made. And now this goes, of course, to the Supreme Court. This is in the hands of. This is in the hands of Trump's judges. And the Supreme Court is going to be, you know, I think, pretty reluctant to make this. This decision.
[27:00]
Joanna
So what will they do? They'll just toss it back and say, keep it with the court. It's with. We're not taking it.
[27:07]
Michael
I think they will probably issue some decision that will make it possible that we'll have enough ambiguities to let them go forward.
[27:18]
Joanna
Interesting. Interesting. Well, they'll have to interrupt their vacation. This is going to be on the shadow docket as an emergency for them to have to deal with. And, you know, they're probably already set off Clarence Thomas, as Hugh suggested yesterday in our Daily Beast podcast wrapping up the week. You know, Clarence Thomas has probably set off in his RV already and doesn't want to have to get together with his colleagues and discuss this.
[27:43]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure they do discuss much on the shadow docket and I'm not sure that their way around actually won't just punt this and give Trump more time to make more progress on a ballroom. And suddenly at some point there will be a ballroom.
[28:02]
Joanna
Right? It's built and that's been his whole modus that you just make it so
[28:09]
Michael
and actually a question that's as interesting is what does let's assume that there is a, that there is a democratic president in 2029, an anti Trump Democratic president. What does that person do with this ballroom?
[28:30]
Joanna
Well, do they turn it into a center for underprivileged children? Do they make it, you know, a homeless shelter? How would you use it in your biggest revenge against Donald Trump, assuming you are.
[28:46]
Michael
Well, I guess the biggest revenge is that you would take it down and then there will be lawsuits about that. How can you change the you have no authority to change the White House.
[28:58]
Joanna
It's just going to look so strange and it's going to make the White House looks so lopsided.
[29:05]
Michael
And there are not this is not the only project that a Democratic administration will then have to deal with both practically and symbolically.
[29:15]
Joanna
Well, hopefully they can fill the reflecting pool and get that back up and running because it doesn't look like they're going to be able to do that. They're now saying it's probably closed through the spring.
[29:24]
Michael
And the Kennedy center and numerous other projects in two which are now in the process of changing the face of
[29:34]
Joanna
Washington D.C. well, talk about the face
[29:37]
Michael
of Washington and the rose Garden. My 11 year old daughter is particularly focused on the Rose Garden. Yeah, well, and then there's the bathroom, which they've carpeted, which the mold is.
[29:51]
Joanna
I think that's his bedroom. Isn't it though? Isn't that the bathroom off his bedroom where they have to keep changing the carpet because he won't use a mat or whatever. The mold. The mold.
[30:02]
Michael
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[30:19]
Joanna
That's it.
[30:20]
Michael
Happy ending zero tears. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
[30:25]
Joanna
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy See terms. Well, you talk about the face of Washington, the face that's been at the front of Washington again this week, Anthony Fauci. Rand Paul really is going after him and trying to get him for contempt of court because he used the fifth Amendment or pled the fifth Amendment as many times as he did during his hearing the previous week.
[30:55]
Michael
And so that they have a thing. So the contempt thing is interesting because a contempt thing requires the Senate 60 votes in the Senate and obviously there have not been 60 votes in the Senate. Actually the Senate is on vacation so they can't vote. And anyway there would not be 60 votes. So they have just, they have just sort of. The committee has indicated that they would submit a contempt citation to the full Senate. They would do that, but they can't do that. So that they have just forwarded this there, the committee's own desire for there to be a contempt citation to the Justice Department for prosecution.
[31:41]
Joanna
But that is not so they must have bypassed Congress. I mean they've just, you know, it's Rand Paul's just gone straight there. Right.
[31:47]
Michael
In other words. So this is just more Anthony Fauci pr. Let's do anything. The name Anthony Fauci, which I have trouble understanding why the name Anthony Fauci has come to be so charged and symbolic. And I mean we understand Covid. We understand that there were right decisions and wrong decisions not just in this country, but in any country. And Anthony Fauci has become somehow Anthony Fauci, this 85 year old man, somehow the face of any of the decisions that were made during the, the long year of COVID the long two years
[32:38]
Joanna
of COVID during which children, when it was very clear they weren't at risk, were kept out of school and they were still insistent they wore masks.
[32:46]
Michael
Well, I mean, you're taking an RFK talking point to say that they were very clear that they were not at risk. It was not very clear.
[32:55]
Joanna
Well, it was clear, Michael. It was clear that children weren't at risk. The people that were at risk were older people and they were, they were unhealthy people.
[33:05]
Michael
That was completely untrue. This is clear now in hindsight. It was not clear then and nothing was clear then for Months and months it may have started to become clear, but for months it wasn't clear. Nobody knew. I mean, why would it be clear? Nothing like this had ever happened before. There was actually a curious.
[33:32]
Joanna
No, but I'm talking to your point that after the vaccinations were given a year in, it was clear that children weren't vulnerable to this virus, that the vulnerable were elderly, they were obese people, they were people with pre existing health conditions.
[33:49]
Michael
Well, even then you were still being much more emphatic than, than you would have been at that moment in time. Yes, it was, it turns out to be in hindsight, actually I was pretty
[34:05]
Joanna
emphatic at the time. I was pretty emphatic at the time, especially when people shouted at me for walking on East Hampton beach without a mask when the ear was coming flying from Portugal.
[34:17]
Michael
You have one example of that. I've heard you on the beach in East Hampton numerous times and it is east. Yes, I mean there was all of that. So at any rate, there was this interesting Dana Bash. Is that her name? Dana Bash?
[34:34]
Joanna
Dana Bash on cnn. I know what you're going to say, her interview with rfk, Right.
[34:40]
Michael
And I mean, again, don't get me started on cnn. And Dana Bash is really an exceptional mediocrity, which would be an oxymoron. An exceptional mediocrity. But you know, she got into this back and forth with RFK Jr. And RFK Jr. Said well, you only believe the, you believe the experts. That's where your information came from, the experts. And she kind of looked blinking instead of saying the obvious thing, which was, well, in the middle of a pandemic the likes that no one has ever experienced, that no one had, that none of us had the capacity to understand. We listened to the experts and who else were we going to listen to? RFK Jr. And Anthony Fauci then was for that period of time a reasonable voice, a man with a reasonable expertise. And were there decisions that were made that were, that were incorrect and short sighted? And we know from Anthony Fauci's diaries that he was taken, impressed by, stunned by his own fame. All that is true. But I literally don't see how in the arc of coming to terms with this Anthony Fauci, I don't see the logic by which makes Anthony Fauci, the face of everything that went wrong, the scapegoat for Covid.
[36:22]
Joanna
No, I agree with you. So what's inside Trump's head about Fauci? Why are they doing this? Why is Rand Paul so fixated on him. Why was the first thing that RFK did when he got to H and H was to instruct them to go through Anthony Fauci's diaries and his emails and see what was in there.
[36:41]
Michael
Well, let's look at this from the rfk. It's money in the bank for rfk. Literally every time the word Anthony Fauci comes up, RFK sells more books. Very, very.
[36:53]
Joanna
This is because he wrote an anti Anthony Fauci book. In fact, the only one of his books has really been remotely successful.
[37:04]
Michael
Yes, essentially, Anthony Fauci makes RFK's career. RFK, we should remember, is nowhere is nobody is.
[37:15]
Joanna
Well, it's mocked. It's roundly mocked and assumed to be a fool.
[37:19]
Michael
Well, yeah, it's just a fringe. He's out there. He's a former drug addict. And you know, and he, and you know, he may or may not have some. Had some terrible thing, terrible involvement with the death of his wife. I mean, it's a terrible family situation. Everything, everything is dubious about RFK Jr. Not a player, not a figure, not anybody that anyone believed would do anything. But, you know, but, but, but fade off somewhere and suddenly the Anthony Fauci book during COVID makes this anti vax guy, everybody, I mean, I mean, no one took this seriously. Suddenly makes him a figure to contend with.
[38:08]
Joanna
So do you think it's possible, I mean, especially now we're recording this on a Saturday morning. Todd Blanche just got confirmed this morning. Do you think it's possible that with Todd Blanche now as attorney general, that somehow Anthony Fauci ends up going to jail for contempt of court, that actually they've successfully bypass and that they can get this through?
[38:35]
Michael
No, I don't think so. I mean, I think this is a show.
[38:39]
Joanna
It's just a show.
[38:40]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, and it's appealing to the
[38:44]
Joanna
MAGA base, it's appealing to Florida voters.
[38:48]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, and this is happening at a very specific time, which is that the midterms are coming. We have. We have no issues on our side, basically is the Republican point of view. Everything is against us. So let's revive something here. Anthony Fauci. Oh, my God, thank God for Anthony Fauci. Let's haul him in front of Congress. Let's make him an issue again.
[39:13]
Joanna
So he's the scapegoat.
[39:14]
Michael
Yeah. And remember, also, you know, anticipating this, Joe Biden pardoned Anthony Fauci. So putting him in jail is. Is extremely difficult, if not impossible and certainly unwarranted. Some personality quirks are really funny. Like, I talk to my left foot more than I talk to my right. You know what's not funny and not a personality quirk? Ocd. Although the term OCD is widely recognized, it's misunderstood by most people. It doesn't mean being tidy or clean. It's having obsessive fears, thoughts, and urges. You question your character, you question your safety. That's OCD. Breaking the OCD cycle takes effective treatment. Go to nocd.com to learn more.
[40:06]
Joanna
All right, well, Trump is also, it seems, still obsessed with birthright citizenship. I mean, it's, you know, part of the Constitution. If you are born here, you become a citizen of the US and yet Trump is still fixed on this. It's been tossed out by scotus.
[40:25]
Michael
And I want to get to that point, but I want to do a contrast first, which is that he, curiously, is not fixated on Fauci. This is the Republicans themselves. And I think from Trump's point of view, the Fauci thing, I don't need Fauci. Trump, remember, does not recognize that the Republican Party is in jeopardy. And Fauci, him, he's always liked Fauci. He's actually said largely positive things about Fauci. And in fact, Fauci is part of the brain trust, as it were, that helped Trump get a vaccine. I mean, Trump's singular accomplishment in office was to push through the COVID vaccine.
[41:19]
Joanna
Yeah, Operation warp speed, which should have been the thing that he won the next election on. And instead, he backed away from it, went all anti vaxx. It couldn't have been a more peculiar positioning statement for him.
[41:31]
Michael
So that's not one of his fixations. But it is important to understand his fixations, because he is a politician of fixations. Not policies, not ideology, everything. And when I say fixation, I mean that something has lodged in his head, in Trump's head, where we are, that he can't modify, he can't change, he can't adjust. It is always there. Even if now, in the case of birthright citizenship, which came back this week, birthright citizenship has been one of those things in his head. Birthright citizenship, bad. And he has pursued. There's an executive order about banning birthright citizenship, essentially. And the Supreme Court said, no, this is ridiculous. I mean, in a 6 to 3 decision, this was just, just a few months ago, a 6 to 3 decision said, of course, birthright citizenship is a constitutional right. You know why it's a constitutional right? Because it says it in the Constitution. And it could not have been more emphatic and in fact, everybody in the administration, the full legal battery, everybody was like, okay, this is where this is never going to fly. Why do we do it? We do it because that's what Trump insists on. This is what we have to do. We have to show up in front of the Supreme Court arguing this totally ridiculous position now. And then they lost. And everybody breathed a sigh of relief and said, okay, let's not, you know, let's get away from that as fast as possible. Trump can't get away from these things. He cannot move on. I mean, we're talking about an emotional problem here on these things. And it's not only birthright citizenship, it's tariffs when the Supreme Court throws them out, it's Greenland, which he keeps coming back to. Again and again, these kinds of things stuck in his head. Now this week with birthright citizenship, the Supreme Court ruled against him. And he said to people in the White House, as he does, find a way around it. And they're like, what do we do? And they come up, they do their best. And the best at this point is just some cockamamie stuff, which will immediately be, any court will throw this out. But again, efforts to limit this in efforts to approach a ban on it. And why does he do this? And I think this is really important to understand. This is not for ideological or policy reasons. This is a psychological problem. And once there was somebody, I had this discussion because it's one of those things that you can't. It's one of those what is going on here? Questions. And one of his aides said to me, he's just crazy on the subject. There is nothing that can be done. Nothing crazy on the subject. So when they say crazy on the subject, that's either a colloquial use of the word here or actually not, and it becomes much more of actually a clinical use. He is crazy on this subject. And people recognize that around him. There's no changing his mind, there's no reasoning with him, there's no logic that will appeal to him.
[45:37]
Joanna
Okay, well, this morning he seems pretty crazy with Lisa McKursky, one of the two women that voted against Todd Blanche. She put out on Truth Social that she was a traitor. Nevertheless, Todd Blanche has been confirmed, as we just mentioned, as Attorney General. A bit of an anti climax after
[45:57]
Michael
all, you know, And I have a, I have a some scuttlebutt on that.
[46:04]
Joanna
I love your scuttlebutt.
[46:06]
Michael
In which from the beginning of this Todd Blanche confirmation, I was told by people around Trump, we have it this is not gonna be a problem. And I was like, well, you don't know what you're talking about. Obviously, there's gonna be a problem. I read the New York Times. I know there are Republicans who are. Who are not gonna vote for this. I mean, Republicans who hate Trump because he's opposed them in their primary bids and they've lost their careers. They're gonna be a significant problem for you. And they were right and I was wrong. So, in other words, all of this has been just a show. They knew all along that Cornyn and Tillis were going to blow smoke in the Blanche confirmation hearings, but in the end, they were going to vote. And they knew all along that they would lose Collins and Lisa Mikowski. Lisa Makowski, because they have. It's going to be much more helpful to them with their own particular basis. And it wouldn't mean anything. Blanche was going to be elected. So this is just a Republican charade.
[47:34]
Joanna
They knew about Collins, they knew about Murkowski. This was all. It's literally a charade. And Bill Cassidy, who suddenly wheeled in at the end to pretend. And he's been primaried. Out of his.
[47:46]
Michael
Exactly.
[47:46]
Joanna
Out of his senatorship, that it's just window dressing. It's just them trying to totally.
[47:52]
Michael
And nothing has changed. So we've set up the controversy that Republicans can somehow hide behind, that they weren't all complicit in this, you know, in Trump making a deal, a tax deal with himself that will save him $100 million and his family, and forever and ever, he'll never have to pay taxes again.
[48:17]
Joanna
And they can revive the idea of the $1.8 billion slush fund for people that were right.
[48:22]
Michael
So nothing. Nothing has. Nothing has changed. They got nothing out of their objections to Scott to Blanch, and which everyone knew. The White House knew this is exactly how it would turn out.
[48:38]
Joanna
Well, I did say. We did predict that John Cornyn and Thom Tillis were creating a lot of hot air, but in the end, they would end up voting for Trump because they don't want the hassle. They don't want to be pursued by him afterwards when they leave. They want an opportunity to make money.
[48:54]
Michael
Yes. And still I. And while I predicted that, I always thought, well, you know, somebody. Somebody is going to do something.
[49:06]
Joanna
So you have a line in your substack this week, which is a series on Melania, the First lady, the missing first lady, which I was struck by. This is a line about Donald Trump, and it's about when Viagra comes out and he Says his issue is that he doesn't need a pill to help him get it up. He needs a pill to help him take it down, which was just such an unpleasant image. But it's an interesting piece about Melania and about their. How he likes her as a sort of. Well, obviously as arm candy. And Nelle Scovell and I have done a four parter on Trump's women, which we're going to start running on Sundays. The first one debuts tomorrow. But it surfaced for us that quote that he once gave. It doesn't really matter what you do as long as you have a nice piece of ass on your arm.
[50:03]
Michael
No, I mean, Trump is. I mean, the entire career. It's why it's such a striking thing that he actually became the president. I mean, among the things, but this may be the most striking, that Donald Trump has had a career that was dedicated to sex. There's that quote. He would go around for years and years saying that he wanted to beat Wilt Chamberlain's record. Now Wilt Chamberlain's record is apparently at twenty thousand.
[50:36]
Joanna
Twenty thousand. Twenty thousand. Good Lord.
[50:41]
Michael
And whether that. I'm sure that, that, that is.
[50:44]
Joanna
There must be a strain. There must be a strain of an sti, which is just Chamberlain. It's. Have you got the Chamberlain? I'm surprised there isn't one of Donald Trump. Did you ever get that? Because don't you remember he said at one point, his Vietnam, he said this to Howard Stern. His Vietnam was avoiding the landmines of STIs when he was clubbing at Studio 54.
[51:06]
Michael
Yeah, no, I mean all of those Howard Stern interviews. And it's interesting that Howard Stern has now turned against Donald Trump. That's a measure of something. But for many years, essentially, Donald Trump went on the Howard Stern show and described his sex life ebulliently. Described his sex life ebulliently.
[51:32]
Joanna
Is that the same as ebulliently?
[51:36]
Michael
Yes, it is.
[51:37]
Joanna
I've never heard it pronounced like that before.
[51:40]
Michael
Well, that's the way we pronounce it in New Jersey.
[51:45]
Joanna
I've never heard it pronounced like that before. Anyway, an enthusiastic describer of his sex life. And now, of course, it turns out a lot of his sex life was allegedly forced upon people.
[51:59]
Michael
Well, yeah, I mean, it was just constant. So obviously it was in all manner, shape or form. That's what Donald Trump did. And then Melania comes along. He marries Melania not principally for domestic succor, but because she is on his arm. She does represent what he wants to be known as now the interesting thing is that that changes at some point. I mean, she has a child, gets older, is not interested in being that. I mean, she's interested in respectability, actually, in being ladies who lunch in Manhattan and he's not. And then we know the, I mean, we know the Storming Daniels thing happens. The grab them by the pussy thing happens. Actually just right in the middle of. Right when Melania is pregnant, she's nursing Baron.
[53:08]
Joanna
Right. Didn't it happen after she was nursing Baron?
[53:12]
Michael
I think she's still pregnant. But anyway, right in that, certainly in that window, and then he goes. And then he becomes the President of the United States. And everyone. Actually, this was probably the most surprising thing to everyone around Donald Trump, which was how was he gonna deal with this? I mean, how was a guy who was absolutely committed to his own, to his, to a constant sexual pursuit going to be the President of the United States? What happens?
[53:48]
Joanna
Well, wasn't that. But the fault of that was that assuming that people thought that would be disqualifying. In fact, it turns out that people like people who. Or it's not disqualifying to have a high. I guess what he was trying to convey, whether or not this is true, because sometimes people say it and of course it's not true, which is why they say it in the first place, that he had a high sex drive, you know.
[54:16]
Michael
Yeah. I mean, that was sort of his position on this. But I think that that's still. I mean, this has never happened before in American history. People, presidents, politicians, were held accountable to a middle class domestic standard and.
[54:37]
Joanna
Well, and also perhaps a Christian standard in terms of, you know, because you're trying to carry the evangelical vote that you're trying to present as a, As a regular family guy.
[54:50]
Michael
Yeah, well, I know. Yeah. I mean, salt was also a Jewish standard. I mean, it was there, there was no, I mean, this is, no, there's no ideological or, or spiritual basis to this. It was a. The convention of proper life. This is about respectability. And discretion. And all of those things that have come to seem as this is what reasonable, not to mention good people do. I mean, we don't want to know about anything else, especially if you're the President of the United States. We really don't want to know this. And that clearly changed for reasons that I'm still not sure that people have worked out. But one of the things that it does is also have an effect on the marriage itself. So we're looking at a marriage essentially every day, looking at a marriage, even Though they try to kind of disguise it in, which displays all of the tensions of an inveterate philanderer and a unhappy, hurt wife.
[56:12]
Joanna
Well, the column is a very interesting column. I read it and it gave me a perspective on Melania that I hadn't sort of thought of before, and especially this week. Cause I've been discussing her with Nell and. And she's clearly just decided to be out of the picture.
[56:31]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure she has been, you know, she has been there is out of the picture and she's clearly in New York and she's clearly not in the White House.
[56:40]
Joanna
Not in the White House.
[56:41]
Michael
But I think that she is waging her own particular rear guard action against her husband.
[56:49]
Joanna
Well, and I think, you know, post menopause, which I'm assuming she is. She gives zero fucking anymore.
[56:58]
Michael
Well, I'm not sure that that's true. I actually think she cares. I think she's wounded by this. I think she's embarrassed by this. I think it's something that it's very difficult to live with. And I think she has, obviously she has a child, she's embarrassed for the child. She's embarrassed in front of the child. And, and in that regard has decided to make her own separate piece in a way, or at least make her own separate business.
[57:35]
Joanna
Well, and she seems slightly revolted by him physically too, which I can understand. Well, I found it really interesting. Substack Michael. And recommend it highly as part of your Melania series. We will be back on Tuesday. No doubt the world will have turned. There will be more for us to discuss. Who knows if Anthony Fauci will be behind bars? I don't think even Round Paul can move that fast. But who knows what Todd Blanche is going to do as Attorney General. We will find out and we will be inside Trump's head tracking it. If you have been. Thank you for joining us. Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. Share this episode with a friend. You too can argue about Anthony Fauci at home or Todd Blanche or wherever you think Melania came from.
[58:21]
Michael
Or Mark Wayne Mullen and where his name comes from?
[58:24]
Joanna
Yes. Do you have thoughts about where Mark Wayne Mullin's name came from? Very good question. Do you know, is there a Mark Wayne in your life? Is there a Mark Wayne in your life? Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.
[58:51]
Michael
Best thing that's ever happened to you, financially. Go easy. Sold my car on Carvana. Amazing offer, really. I hit 200 on a scratcher. Did the scratcher come to your house and hand you a check?
[59:02]
Joanna
No.
[59:02]
Michael
How many scratchers did you hit to get that? I hit a button on Carvana.com once.
[59:07]
Joanna
Okay, that's fair.
[59:08]
Michael
It's like the lottery, except you always win. Not like the lottery at all, actually. Exactly. In inexplicably good offers worth bragging about. Sell your car today on Carvana. Pick up fees may apply.
[59:22]
Joanna
Traditional home security only alerts you after a break in. And that's too late. Simplisafe is changing that.
[59:28]
Michael
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[59:30]
Joanna
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[59:43]
Michael
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[59:47]
Joanna
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[59:48]
Michael
Visit simplisafe. Com licenses for alarm license information. Tennessee2012.

Podcast Summary: Inside Trump's Head

Episode: "What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation" Host(s): Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles Date: August 9, 2026

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Trojan Ballroom" Standoff

2. Absurdities and Symbolic Overreach

3. Trumpworld’s Body Politics

4. The Markwayne Mullin Paradox

5. Trump’s "Fixations" Versus Policy

6. Political Theatre & Judicial Charades

7. The Fauci Scapegoat Saga

8. Intimate Trump: Sex, Marriage, and Respectability

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Style

In Summary

Podcast Summary: Inside Trump's Head

Episode: "What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation" Host(s): Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles Date: August 9, 2026

Episode Overview

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. The "Trojan Ballroom" Standoff

2. Absurdities and Symbolic Overreach

3. Trumpworld’s Body Politics

4. The Markwayne Mullin Paradox

5. Trump’s "Fixations" Versus Policy

6. Political Theatre & Judicial Charades

7. The Fauci Scapegoat Saga

8. Intimate Trump: Sex, Marriage, and Respectability

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

Timestamps for Key Segments

Tone and Style

In Summary

Episode: "What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation"
Host(s): Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Date: August 9, 2026

Episode: "What Trump Is Screaming After Ballroom Humiliation"
Host(s): Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Date: August 9, 2026