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[00:01]
Ryan Reynolds
Evening.
[00:02]
Michael Wolff
Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car. I'll be moving in. Let's get started.
[00:08]
Carvana Announcer
Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.
[00:11]
Ryan Reynolds
You what?
[00:11]
Carvana Announcer
Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.
[00:15]
Michael Wolff
So there's no.
[00:16]
Carvana Announcer
No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.
[00:20]
Michael Wolff
I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.
[00:25]
Carvana Announcer
Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy@carvana.com hey,
[00:30]
Ryan Reynolds
it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
[00:52]
Carvana Announcer
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50gb. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[01:00]
Michael Wolff
The Secret Service certainly would not leak this. So who leaked it? This is an easy answer.
[01:07]
Joanna
Donald Trump leaked it.
[01:08]
Michael Wolff
Of course. He has a method here and the method is now more attention on me. The assassination theme has worked very well for Donald Trump and I think that he wants people to know he's the target. I'm the main target. He is at the lowest point in his political career. So what this man needs is distraction. His a proxy plane being hidden in a food truck. All of this. People are going to shoot him out of the sky. He's number one. This is great for Trump.
[01:51]
Joanna
Michael, Joanna, Happy anniversary.
[01:58]
Michael Wolff
This is our 25th anniversary as husband and wife.
[02:05]
Joanna
It's our one year anniversary for inside Trump's head. We started having no idea what we were going to talk about and in fact, our producer Ryan went back and listened to our first episode, which was 45 minutes of talking about one subject
[02:22]
Michael Wolff
and he didn't like it.
[02:23]
Joanna
He didn't like it. He was rude about it. He said, oh, it was very much a pilot was his dismissive tone. But we figured out by the numbers. 9,000 minutes, 70,000 comments. Thank you. Please keep them coming. 18 cardigans, 37 t shirts and 12 blazers later, we're still going. For new people joining us, just remind me of what we're doing here, how
[02:48]
Michael Wolff
we got into this. I've written four Books about. About Donald Trump in the first administration, I spent almost seven months inside the White House. And that's another story for another time how that happened. But we represent a particular point of view about how to talk about Donald Trump. And the effort is not to talk about him, as most of the media does, from the outside, looking at him as a fairly typical political creature and political phenomenon. We look at this from. Try to do this from the inside, that what goes on in this government is atypical in every way, because it all comes out of one man's head. What he's thinking, what he's feeling, what he doesn't know. So he has to cover up by pretending that he knows. And everyone around him is forced to not only listen to him, but absolutely do what he wants, because you cannot disagree with him. You can't really even talk to him because he doesn't listen. I mean, this is a departure in every way from what we understand American politics and American democracy to be about. It is just one singular guy. And this is not an argument to say that he's a would be dictator or a would be despot or any of these things. Actually, it's something else to say that he is wholly unique. He is not like anyone you or anyone you know has known. And understanding what that is in what that does to the nature of government and the nature of politics and the nature of the future of this country is what we're trying to get at and trying to get at from understanding what motivates this guy.
[04:59]
Joanna
And I am the chief content officer of the Daily Beast. My background's as a journalist. What we do at the Daily Beast is chronicle the crazy in the White House, which leads us perfectly to this insane story about Trump and doing a whole David Blaine. Now you see me, now you don't. Which plane am I on? It's like those three cups. And you have to guess which one Donald Trump is under. And they're always moving them around. And you're like, I think it's that one. No, it's this one. And don't forget to like and subscribe so much to discuss Air Force One. The fact that this, in fact, you knew about this and you knew that this was something that the president did. AOCs eggs.
[05:41]
Ryan Reynolds
No.
[05:41]
Michael Wolff
Which is, you know, I have to note this. Why don't people just read my books?
[05:46]
Joanna
I know. Well, I'm gonna read part of your book out loud to remind people this happened during the campaign and Natalie Hart was involved. So stay tuned for that Darlene Graham. It Turns out probably didn't vote for Donald Trump. She becomes more interesting as a candidate, more interesting by the day because we know that she gave money to people that wanted to leave open the option of abortion in North Carolina or possibly South Carolina. South Carolina, right. Yeah, South Carolina, because the former governor Mark Sanford is going to give her a run for her money in the Senate race. Anyway, so the plane aocs eggs Trump saying that he took his children for their vaccination appointments. All three of them. All three kids for their vaccination appointments. And he says that he split the MMR vaccine up.
[06:42]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, let's get to, let's get to this. Let's not dissect this right now.
[06:47]
Joanna
Well, I'm laying out a menu for people.
[06:49]
Michael Wolff
Yes, let's give it its own segment because this is totally preposterous.
[06:56]
Joanna
Totally preposterous.
[06:57]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
[07:18]
Carvana Announcer
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[07:27]
Joanna
All right, but what is also preposterous is this idea of filling Air Force One with your staff and your press, sending it off into the sky as a decoy while you are smuggled out of a food truck into a completely different plane and appearing David Blaine, like all jazz hands when you land in London, saying, oh, that was a great journey. And no one, no one, the entire White House press pool was any the wiser that he'd been on a completely different plane.
[08:03]
Michael Wolff
So this is both a, a, a kind of COVID up by the President and the White House and the Secret Service. And yet once again, the White House press corps missing the story.
[08:18]
Joanna
Totally missing the story. I mean, the crazy is they literally were on the plane and they must have thought, why isn't the President coming back to talk to us? Because he always goes back to talk to them. Because he loves it, he wants them, he loves to insult them. He knows that will be the next story. But I guess my other question too is Washington Post got this story. Which by the way, has hugely improved since Will Lewis left, interestingly.
[08:45]
Michael Wolff
Well, let's set the story for that. The Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, a year ago. A year ago. Plus he brought in an editor by the name of Will Lewis, a British editor.
[08:58]
Joanna
Well, CEO. He brought him in as CEO, as
[09:01]
Michael Wolff
CEO, but to run the place. And that was a year, more than a year of chaos within the Washington Post and Will Lewis by. By many estimations, destroying the paper.
[09:21]
Joanna
Right. I think he came in a couple of years ago and then left. Was fired at the beginning of this year. Right.
[09:27]
Michael Wolff
Yes. The timeline escapes me, but. But he was the last. The last per. No one is running the Washington. This is the interesting point. No one is really running the Washington Post now. And without anyone running the paper, it's gotten great.
[09:45]
Joanna
Yeah, I mean, you know, well, and why Will Lewis is interesting is because he was. He was a Murdoch guy who was alleged to have deleted 30 million emails from the servers at News International, the headquarters of Murdoch's British newspapers, the Times, the Sun, then the News of the World to protect the company against the phone hacking scandal.
[10:11]
Michael Wolff
So in apparatchik, a suck up always about who he's reporting to, who his boss is. And I think you can probably see very clearly that he was running the newsroom as a reflection of what he thought Jeff Bezos wanted. So whether Jeff Bezos wanted it or not, he was that interesting thing in which the guy on top may want something, but it's then carried out to an extreme by the suck ups around him, in this case, Will Lewis. And when that person is removed, well, Jeff Bezos may continue to want what he wants, but the people there, nobody's the point person for giving it to him. So it goes on. The organization can go on in a relatively unfettered way until Jeff Bezos says, this is not what I want. And then he has to hire some other apparatchik and suck up to enforce his desires. But in the time when there is not such a person, it's a brief renaissance.
[11:25]
Joanna
Anyway, as media people, we've all immediately digressed to the media story, which is not the story here, except that the Washington Post brought broke this story of Trump being smuggled via a food cart into a different container.
[11:40]
Michael Wolff
A food container, really?
[11:42]
Joanna
I imagine there was such.
[11:43]
Michael Wolff
Not a food cart. You think the stewardesses are going down?
[11:48]
Joanna
Chicken, fish or Trump with Trump?
[11:51]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's one of those big containers that comes up and then they take the food out.
[11:58]
Joanna
That would be really depressed if you were served Trump for lunch. But Open the foil pouch and there he is. Okay, this has gone down an absurdist route. The point is this. You actually wrote about this in all or Nothing. Can I.
[12:13]
Michael Wolff
Well, before, before, before we get to that. Okay, get. I think we, we. Let's continue the Washington Post theme. Who leaked this?
[12:22]
Joanna
Right. Who leaked the story that Air Force One was full of journalists and staff and sent off as a target while Trump was safely.
[12:32]
Michael Wolff
Let me give a further background here that this has happened before, which, which we will discuss. No one knows about it and no one knows about most of the things that the Secret Service does for a very good reason. These are all security precautions. When people begin to know about. If people know about them, then they're no longer part of the security protocol, are no longer a safe part. So people don't know about this. The Secret Service certainly would not leak this. So who leaked it? This is an easy answer.
[13:10]
Joanna
Donald Trump leaked it, of course. How can he keep anything secret?
[13:14]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's not just that. He has a method here and the method is now more attention on me. And also there's a theme here. The assassination theme has worked very well for Donald Trump. And I think that he wants people to know he's the target. I'm the main target.
[13:37]
Joanna
I'm the guy number one in the world. Nobody's ever seen anything like it. I'm the biggest target. And also totally worked for him. After Butler, Pennsylvania, do you remember Elon coming out and saying, I didn't really think much of the guy, but then after that, I was all in. So many people were all in.
[13:53]
Michael Wolff
This was reported by the Washington Post first and then picked up by the New York Times and other news organizations as though this was a unique, a scandal even. And all they had to do was read my.
[14:14]
Joanna
Read your book. So I'm going to read your book. Where it turns out we discover. Spoiler alert, this has happened before. All right, so this is. We're picking up just after the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt where Thomas Matthew Crooks is the white youth who attempts to kill him, comes very close and is then very quickly dispensed of by the Secret Service. So this is Trump you're talking about. He was being singled out as a historic figure and an agent of history with unknown forces trying to stop him. Thomas Crooks, the first would be assassin, had been using encrypted platforms based in Belgium, Germany and New Zealand. Evidence repeated by people in the Trump camp of something larger than a lone figure, foreign adversaries is the description Trump darkly used. We just don't know if these guys are speaking to foreign adversaries. I hear they might be the Iranians probably, but possibly Ukraine. In his conversations, the plot on his life, his legal difficulties, the scheme to replace Joe Biden, all easily ran together. Portents of the case he would make if he lost, or of the investigations to come if he won. Meanwhile, following the first attempt, and now with redoubled fervor, security had been overhauled and upgraded. More evidence to him of plots in progress. Trump Force One had become the decoy plane. His staff and guests available to be shot out of the sky with Trump himself on a secret flight.
[15:52]
Michael Wolff
And this happened several times and either as a function of the Secret Service getting reports of whatever significance or. And also Trump kind of starting to like this. And so it would be, it was very clear there would be a proxy plane with press on it, with some staff on it, and then Trump would be on another plane. And in at least one instance there was a meltdown. And actually this is why I came to know about this, because Natalie Harp was put on the proxy plane. Natalie Harp, as we have discussed many times before, is Trump's constant companion, his 32 year old constant companion, effectively one of his main advisors at this point, the person who does all of his or a significant amount of his social media and who is really his primary gatekeeper.
[17:03]
Joanna
So Natalie Harp, who's clutching, I mean, she walks around with four phones, two computers, an enormous backpack, right?
[17:10]
Michael Wolff
And she is always, she is the person, no question, the person who spends the most time with him, connected to him really.
[17:22]
Joanna
And she's also known as the human printer because she figured out a way of driving around on a golf course after him. On the golf course.
[17:29]
Michael Wolff
Well, that was her first, that's how she came to her, her position of prominence with Donald Trump, that she carried the printer when he was on the golf course. She would print out emails and good news emails, fawning articles and then delivered, deliver them to him at each hole.
[17:50]
Joanna
And at one point she, I think, spent the summer sleeping in the locker room at Bedminster to be close to him.
[17:57]
Michael Wolff
Reported by Michael Wolfe.
[17:59]
Joanna
Oh, reported by Michael Wolff there, indeed. So Natalie Harp.
[18:03]
Michael Wolff
So she was, she was put on the proxy plane and had a, just, just went crazy and got everyone involved with this and in fact then was moved on to the Trump plane because then Trump found out. She may raise such a ruckus that Trump found out or this, this, this arise. Somebody had to tell Trump, well, we can't go anywhere. And then she was moved over To Trump's. From the proxy plane to Trump's.
[18:34]
Joanna
Do we know if. Do we know if Natalie Hart was also smuggled in the food truck on this most recent.
[18:43]
Michael Wolff
You know, that's what's new in this story. The subterfuge here of how you actually get on a secret plane, which hadn't crossed my mind, that actually went. When you get on a plane, people see you get on the plane.
[18:57]
Joanna
Well, and also when you're that famous, I mean, this may be why he's been wearing that strange new hair. Cause some days he wears it, other days he doesn't. So perhaps it was some kind of disguise that he's been playing with. Or perhaps they put him in some kind of gray coat as if he was working on the food truck.
[19:17]
Michael Wolff
But now the interesting question would be, is for the press, how does the press feel to. To know that they are the decoy? They are being set up to be shot out of the sky?
[19:30]
Joanna
Well, I shouldn't think they feel very pleased about it. I mean, he said, didn't he, Famously, if I go, you go. At one point when someone asks him about being a target, when he comes back to talk to the press and he goes, well, if I go, you go. Not be true.
[19:48]
Michael Wolff
Not to be true.
[19:49]
Joanna
Yet another presidential lie.
[19:52]
Michael Wolff
Now, of course, there's a larger context here, which is this is the protocols. The Secret Service does everything to protect the President of the United States. The Secret Service is not there to protect the press, should not be actually there to protect the press. It is all about how you keep this one guy safe. And in fact, were something to happen to the proxy plane, were the plane to be shot out, I guess we would be at war anyway, and that would be an extraordinary event. And no one would feel sorry for reporters.
[20:31]
Joanna
Well, but it's also the White House staff, right? That the staff traveling with him, that support staff, were also on the old Air Force One because the. Cause the other thing that was going on.
[20:42]
Michael Wolff
Well, not Natalie Harp.
[20:45]
Joanna
Well, we don't know where.
[20:45]
Michael Wolff
We don't know fairly.
[20:47]
Joanna
We don't know where Natalie Harp was. But there's a sort of double bluff
[20:50]
Michael Wolff
here, although I can guess.
[20:52]
Joanna
Okay, so you think she was with him in the food truck.
[20:55]
Michael Wolff
She's resourceful.
[20:57]
Joanna
Interesting. Well, perhaps we can figure out where was Natalie Harp. But there's also a double bluff here. Cause you've got Grift Force One, the plane that Qatar has given him, that he flies over to the NATO summit, in which then Secret Service say, well, this isn't good. Enough, it's not high quality enough, it's not secure enough, especially with the latest threats. So we're going to put you on the old Air Force One, which is secure enough, but we're not actually going
[21:28]
Michael Wolff
to put you on the old because
[21:30]
Joanna
it's not secure enough, it turns out. So we're going to put you on another little plane, which probably isn't secure at all, but nevertheless, it's a different plane. So it'll throw your adversaries off, or adversaries of
[21:44]
Michael Wolff
totally. And then we can digress again to the Qatari plane, because before our eyes, and we should watch this. He is trying to steal that plane. He is going to steal that plane.
[21:59]
Joanna
Well, I think he told us he stealing.
[22:01]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, it's all this stuff about the library. And it was going to be on display. It was going to be an exhibit at the library. What he's going to do. And I think we should keep coming back to this. He is looking to set up. So all this thing about third term, he's gonna. Willy Wooney. That's a diversion. What he's going to do is set up a separate White House at Mar A Lago. When he leaves, he's funding it by all these corporations he's now extorting money from. And he's gonna have this big plane, the Qatar Air Force One.
[22:37]
Joanna
So this is the money that we talked about last week. Meredith o' Rourke has raised his princess of Darkness, as he refers to her, she's raised $800 million largely by shaking down companies.
[22:49]
Ryan Reynolds
Right.
[22:49]
Michael Wolff
And she will continue to shake, and this will be billions by the time this administration is over. And that will be part of the nut that finances this pretender White House in Mar A Lago.
[23:04]
Joanna
Okay, well, I'm glad that that's going to fund him because Truth Social, his business is not going to fund him. It lost 200, I think $38 million.
[23:12]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's not the. I mean, it's been losing money, of course. Of course. All along. And. But the interesting thing is that the, the relatively small universe of people who have been on Truth Social are fleeing a sinking ship.
[23:30]
Joanna
They're dwindling.
[23:33]
Michael Wolff
This began as a social network of one and will return to a social network of one. But it's an interesting kind of reverse network effect. I mean, the technology business is based on this idea of the network effect. You build a network and then it expands exponentially. So this is going in the opposite direction. And it's a kind of. I mean, it's a kind of its own tracking pole, in a sense.
[24:04]
Joanna
Well, what I find when I'm on it, and I know you're not on it, but I am. I get ads for knives and I get ads for assault weapons. Air Force One. Trump leaks it because he wants the attention. He wants everybody to know it's a,
[24:19]
Michael Wolff
you know, remember, we're in the middle of this. He is at the lowest point in his political career. The polls are at the lowest point in his political career. Nothing is going right. He's stuck in the middle of a war that he promised not to get into, got into, can't get out of. So what this man needs is distraction. What is another story that, what's a headline that is, that takes away from all the other headlines and his proxy plane being hidden in the food truck. All of this. People are gonna shoot him out of the sky. He's number one. This is great for Trump.
[25:05]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back.
[25:13]
Michael Wolff
So.
[25:14]
Ryan Reynolds
So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment
[25:27]
Carvana Announcer
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[25:35]
Joanna
Well, it's also Trump and the Iranians, right? Because the Iranians have got him in an absolute chokehold. They've said, no, no, no, you know, you want the straight of Hormuz opened. Here is a list of things we want from you, all of which are frankly unacceptable. All of which the administration said they wouldn't give them. And he's, as you say, completely between a rock and a hard place. And now he's just diverting with, well, I beat you over here. I avoided your, you know, your targeting me when I was in Turkey. It's a very small win for him, I think.
[26:08]
Michael Wolff
And this is. Yeah, I mean, a couple of days distraction, but, you know, a couple of days distraction here, a couple of days distraction there, it adds up to real distraction.
[26:18]
Joanna
Right? And we've only got, what have we got, 80 odd days until the election. So if he can just keep.
[26:22]
Michael Wolff
No. And he's just looking. It's what it's always Trump triangular looking for what is the thing that he can. That he can distract people with? What is the thing that he can point to? What is the thing that. That sets up someone else to be the fall guy?
[26:41]
Joanna
We saw that a couple of people have left the White House. Dave Warrington left to be replaced by Will Scarfe as the White House general counsel. Kathy Rummler's old job when she was there. I think he's also leaving a sinking ship.
[26:54]
Ryan Reynolds
Right?
[26:54]
Michael Wolff
Yes. I mean, I think that's. I mean, we're gonna see more of that people leaving because the midterms are coming up, and then, you know, you have to get a new job. I mean, at the end of this, in 2028, where are you gonna be? And, And. Or maybe Dave Warrington is running for president.
[27:14]
Joanna
I don't think so, but I don't think so. I'm sure he's going to make some money. White House general counsel can make a lot of money going into a big white shoe law firm.
[27:21]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, absolutely. So that's not. But in the idea of him firing people, in other words. I mean. I mean, I think that's. Yes. So that would be a way to distract. Put blame on other people. But that would be from Trump's. That's people, someone, the media, us, telling him what to do. And he's not going to do. He doesn't want to do. Often quite refuses to do, even though it's the smart thing to do, but because he's being told to do it, he doesn't do it.
[27:56]
Joanna
But he may need to find someone to blame for the war because the war is going to be bad for the midterms.
[28:05]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm stumped here. I'm stumped. Like, he's stumped. He doesn't know what to do.
[28:12]
Joanna
Okay.
[28:13]
Michael Wolff
So, you know, I mean, he's in. I mean, let's. The.
[28:17]
Joanna
The.
[28:18]
Michael Wolff
In the most basic terms, the Iranians won't do what he wants. They won't open the Strait of Hormuz, and we do not have enough ammunition to make them. I mean, that is it. He's run out of bullets, quite literally.
[28:35]
Joanna
It's a crazy story. And then when he screamed at Pete Hegseth at Camp David, Pete Hegseth blamed Steven Feinberg, his number two, for not telling Trump that we'd run out of munitions.
[28:48]
Michael Wolff
So, anyway, we're always looking. What is the thing always in Trump's mind? It's in his. In the muddle of his mind. He's always grasping for that one Thing that might change people, just redirect people's attention, suddenly define a new enemy. And he tried this weekend. So on Sunday morning, AOC gave an interview. Who is the leader in the polls, the Democratic polls for the Democratic nomination for president. 36 years old. So she's one year over the minimum to possibly be the President.
[29:38]
Joanna
Can we just have a moment and let that sink in?
[29:41]
Michael Wolff
Yes, you can have any moments you want.
[29:43]
Joanna
I mean, it's just such a.
[29:49]
Michael Wolff
You mean what's sinking in now that she's 36 years old?
[29:54]
Joanna
Well, all of it. That she's 36 years old. That she's never created a job in her life. That she's incredibly, she's become incredibly good at talking to crowds, that she's pulled Bernie Sanders in as a sort of security blanket. So when they go on their oligarchy tour on their private planes across America, she gets the benefit of his. Well, I don't. What is his broa sphere?
[30:19]
Michael Wolff
I mean, I think that that's minimizing what she has accomplished. I mean, the entire rise of the Democratic Socialists of America is essentially on her back. It's her project. She is certainly the spear here and I think it's a remarkable accomplishment. I think she's actually rather remarkable. She's articulate.
[30:49]
Joanna
No, no, I'm not saying she's not remarkable. I'm just saying it's remarkable that we're at this moment in America where she could be the leading candidate for the President, the Democratic President.
[31:01]
Michael Wolff
I mean, look at the, look at, I mean, we've had Donald Trump.
[31:04]
Joanna
I know, I know.
[31:05]
Michael Wolff
We've had Joe Biden.
[31:07]
Joanna
How did we get here? How did we get here, Michael?
[31:09]
Michael Wolff
Well, I don't know. It may not be a bad position to be here. She's young, she's smart, she's energetic, and
[31:19]
Joanna
you know where else she is? She's inside Trump's head.
[31:21]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And so at any rate, on Sunday morning, she went on the Sunday, Sunday programs and said, or one of the Sunday programs, I think the ABC program, and said that she was freezing her eggs. 36 year old woman, she's not married and she's planning ahead. Trump is electrified, gets on the phone and at least one of these conversations that I am privy to and says this is his opening statement. She's getting her eggs frozen. And then the person he's speaking to says, who's getting her eggs frozen? And he says, Hillary is getting her eggs frozen. He says, Hillary, Yes. So this person who's giving this is completely confused from the get go now algebraically more confused.
[32:22]
Joanna
Right. And then did Trump realize what he'd said? Because didn't the person say, well that's impossible?
[32:28]
Michael Wolff
No. Well then, then remember because it's Trump and he always repeats the last thing. Then he said again, Hillary is getting her eggs frozen. At any rate, this finally comes clear who is getting not 78 year old Hillary, but 36 year old AOC. And then, and you can see that this is a thing, that this is maybe, maybe he has. It's like taking the knee that he's hoping to have identified a cultural moment, a political cultural intersection which will galvanize, I don't know, the MAGA base. And at that point in this conversation he connects the freezing your eggs to birthright citizenship. So I don't know. Is then the question, can you deport an egg?
[33:30]
Joanna
Can you deport an egg?
[33:31]
Michael Wolff
This is also, and I think it is, you know, that this is, that this is. He is really searching. This is a thing, you know, he's got to find something. He is now without an issue, without a, you know, and issues really are not his thing. It's really without a piece of language, a connection.
[33:52]
Joanna
Well, and also it's an odd one to choose because a more and more women are freezing their eggs. Costco now offers the drugs to freeze your eggs. Right. So this is not something that's complete. I mean, yes, it's expensive, but it's now becoming within range for people who want to start a family.
[34:10]
Carvana Announcer
I think
[34:13]
Michael Wolff
every family in America knows someone. Every person in America likely has some family member who has fertility issues, I think.
[34:24]
Joanna
Right?
[34:24]
Michael Wolff
No, no, no, this is fertility questions. Or this is. Yeah, I mean, I think this is, you know, an 80 year old man saying eggs, a woman's eggs. Well, with everybody else saying, oh my God, this is just, you know, this
[34:39]
Joanna
is just what women do these days,
[34:40]
Michael Wolff
life as it is.
[34:41]
Joanna
But it also indicates she's probably thinking of running for 20, 28. Well, that's a life. It's an insurance policy to put on one side.
[34:53]
Michael Wolff
No, I think she's someone and be.
[34:54]
Joanna
If she doesn't.
[34:55]
Michael Wolff
No, I think she's clearly. I mean that actually that's the more, the more complex thing. And I wonder how Americans would react to that. I'm freezing my eggs so that I can run for president and then have a child after the presidency. Well, if she were to, I don't
[35:16]
Joanna
know, their pregnant president. We haven't had that before. We haven't had a woman president. We've definitely not had a pregnant President,
[35:23]
Michael Wolff
one of the things I think that we can assume about AOC is that she has made the political calculations here.
[35:31]
Joanna
I'm sure she has. Anyway, I wish you well. And also, it's a much more effective procedure than it used to be. It used to be incredibly expensive.
[35:40]
Michael Wolff
The operation here, by the way, is it's not that he's so brilliant at this, it's that he tries out so
[35:47]
Joanna
many things and then some stick. Yeah, okay, some sticks.
[35:53]
Michael Wolff
Fox News is streaming live on Fox 1, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective stream now.
[36:04]
Joanna
So is his claim that he took his children to have their vaccinations likely to stick? Well, let's, let's do so, explain what was happening here.
[36:22]
Michael Wolff
Right. So that, that happened yesterday, that he gave this presser a press conference about, about vaccines and specifically the MMR vaccine,
[36:35]
Joanna
mumps, measles and rubella vaccine, which children get very early on. And it's three shots in. In one.
[36:44]
Ryan Reynolds
Right.
[36:44]
Michael Wolff
So it's one shot.
[36:45]
Joanna
Can I just say, for people listening in, I mean, we have a lot of listeners in Europe, we have a lot of listeners in New Zealand, in Australia, you must, I'm sure you cannot believe this conversation that is going on, that the President of the United States is saying that he feels some vaccines should be delayed.
[37:06]
Michael Wolff
MMR vaccine. That one vaccine, I believe, is 50 years old, 55 years old, the MMR. My older children have certainly had that, and my older children are basically my age now. So.
[37:25]
Joanna
Your older children are basically your age now? What are you saying?
[37:29]
Michael Wolff
My older children are old? They cross a line in which they're basically adults. Yeah, I mean, they're more than adults. They're my age. This has become a, it's a foundation of childhood health that these three key vaccines are given at the same time. Therefore, it increases the likelihood that you're going to get them, that you're not going, you know, the other way, which, as Trump is suggesting now, is that you should come back three, three different times. So you just set up hurdles, which is what he's trying to do, so that you don't get these, these vaccines. Now, why would he do that? Well, because he's in a desperate race at this point. I mean, he is trying to hold on to the MAGA base. If he can't turn out the MAGA base in the midterms, it will be a blue sweep. He'll lose the Senate on that basis.
[38:34]
Joanna
But the dismantling of a basic pillar of public health, I mean, you cannot believe he is trying to do this. I find it unfathomable. It's like saying to people, and I'm expecting to do this, stop washing your hands. Don't wash your hands. In fact, you know, washing your hands is bad for you. Washing your hands is one of the, you know, the basic, the basic points of hygiene.
[39:00]
Michael Wolff
Well, I, I will, I will assure you that if he could say, don't wash your hands and keep the Senate, he would say, don't wash your hands.
[39:09]
Joanna
Yeah, no, I'm sure he would. I'm excited.
[39:10]
Michael Wolff
I mean, this is all this, this is just a, A, a base and cynical political calculation. And he's in a. And, and he has not been an anti vax guy.
[39:22]
Joanna
I know. I mean, he's been until recently.
[39:24]
Michael Wolff
He's been at best, am that.
[39:27]
Joanna
Well, it's really. Since COVID Right. It was the sort of backing off from Operation Walk Speed, his one achievement of Trump one, and then understanding that RFK had whipped up a base around this.
[39:40]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, no. Prior to Covid, I think vaccines had never even crossed his mind. And he's a kind of a health, I mean, a, you know, very health conscious, you know, germaphobe kind of guy.
[39:58]
Joanna
Well, he says he is, but then you discover that he slept with Stormy Daniels. Right, well. And you said, you know, didn't use a condom with. I always think it's funny when people say, oh, I'm a germaphobe, and then you discover they have sex without a condom.
[40:10]
Michael Wolff
Right. But nevertheless, that was, that's the conceit. And there was, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure vaccines. It just didn't cross his, His. Why would Donald Trump be concerned about vaccines?
[40:25]
Joanna
But how can we have an American president sitting in the Oval Office saying, you shouldn't give a vaccine that has been, you know, a pillar of public health for the last 55 years. And then he gives this nonsense where he says, I took my children to their vaccine appointments with my wife and we broke up the mmr. So they each had one singly. No one can refute this. His wife is dead and buried on his golf course. I'm sure the doctor's no longer alive and the kids won't know. I mean, according to Ivana's, she did all the child raising and basically presented to the children to him.
[41:02]
Michael Wolff
The idea that Donald Trump ever accompanied a child to a pediatrician is preposterous.
[41:08]
Joanna
Right.
[41:08]
Michael Wolff
I mean, it just doesn't. No, this is the, I was just gonna say this was the Worst kind of cynical behavior. But it's clearly not. I mean, he's clearly done this, done this again and again and again. This is what he does. And it is a measure at this point of his desperation.
[41:31]
Joanna
What I don't understand is why would he think that maga, the MAGA base, would want their children to go unvaccinated? Why does he think they would like to lose their children to measles or whooping cough or, you know, bring back mumps?
[41:45]
Michael Wolff
Well, I mean, he. For a very good reason. I mean, that is that position, particularly in the magabase, the evangelical MAGA base polls very high. I mean, that's all that he's looking at right now. This is. I got to bring those people out. Those people are going to be the margin of victory or defeat in key races.
[42:11]
Joanna
Well, at some point, everybody's going to know someone whose child has had measles
[42:15]
Michael Wolff
and been deadly ill. Well, not before the midterm election. If he's going to get Ken Paxton elected, he needs the anti vax MAGA evangelical crowd.
[42:30]
Joanna
Ken Paxton. Oh, you mean the impeached Attorney General in Texas.
[42:35]
Michael Wolff
I mean the impeached attorney General in Texas who is divorcing his wife now with accusations of his own efforts to match Wilt Chamberlain's record. And on top of that, with questions flying about how did the Attorney General of the state of Texas, who makes, you know, I don't know, 100 something. Yes, yes. Amass millions in property.
[43:13]
Joanna
I wonder how. I wonder how. Still, I spoke to someone last week who has been running an enormous business in Texas, and he said the Democrats were deluded if they thought James Talarico was going to win. He said even though Ken Paxton is a horrible, horrible man, he's likely to win.
[43:31]
Michael Wolff
Well, I always find that you have terrible sources. So we're going to see if that is, if that is the case, because I am optimistic about James Talaria, about the Texas race. And as a measure of that, I would say Trump's sudden fervor about the mmr. He doesn't even know what the MMR race.
[43:53]
Joanna
He doesn't. And of course, he didn't accompany his wife to his children's pediatrician appointment. So another person that may or may not hold a Senate seat in her hands, Darlene Graham, the sister of Lindsey Graham, your former source, the hawk, the
[44:11]
Michael Wolff
wild hawk, who is everyone's famous source,
[44:13]
Joanna
everybody's famous source, who famously said on the eve of the bombing, where I think actually a couple of days into the bombing, that Trump was like Roosevelt and that Bibi was like Churchill and that this was. Trump was the best wartime president ever.
[44:35]
Michael Wolff
He said that out of the front of the mouth and out of the sides of his mouth, he said other things. And the interesting thing about Darlene Graham, and I know a whole bunch of people who have tried to talk to her, because it's like she's replacing. Replacing her brother. Then people assume, well, she'll be the source. She's not talking to anybody, which is probably reasonably good politics.
[44:59]
Joanna
But does she have much to say at this point?
[45:00]
Michael Wolff
Well, she probably has nothing to say. And if she talked, she probably would say what she's not supposed to say, because it appears that Darlene Graham is the candidate of Donald Trump. He's the person who appears to have talked her into running for her brother's Senate seat.
[45:23]
Joanna
Although let us not forget that Donald Trump endorsed both people who were running for governor of South Carolina. When it became clear that his candidate wasn't going to win, he endorsed the other one.
[45:35]
Michael Wolff
This candidate, Darlene Graham, appears not to have voted for Donald Trump.
[45:42]
Joanna
So did she vote for Joe Biden or did she just not show up?
[45:45]
Michael Wolff
It appears that she did not vote in either 2016 or 2024.
[45:53]
Joanna
Did she vote for her brother?
[45:56]
Michael Wolff
She may not even have voted for her brother.
[45:59]
Joanna
Well, she said very clearly she doesn't really have any opinion of foreign affairs.
[46:05]
Michael Wolff
She may be a liberal.
[46:08]
Joanna
Darlene Graham may be a liberal. Well, she said that she wants to focus on domestic issues. Right. We know that she's interested in public health. I think she's an optician and. Well, she's the person that. Well, my point is.
[46:22]
Michael Wolff
Opticians are liberals.
[46:24]
Joanna
No, my point is she's the person saying, is it better on the. Is it better this way or this way?
[46:30]
Michael Wolff
No, no, no. That's an optometrist. The optician is the person who grinds the glass to make the lens.
[46:38]
Joanna
Oh, really? I thought an optician was the person that did the eye test, too.
[46:42]
Michael Wolff
That's the optometrist.
[46:44]
Joanna
Oh, goodness. It's so complicated.
[46:47]
Michael Wolff
Well, who does it in your country?
[46:50]
Joanna
This is my country, Michael. This is my country. So is she the person that helps
[46:55]
Michael Wolff
you have convince me or Donald Trump of that?
[46:58]
Joanna
Is she the person that helps you select frames?
[47:01]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
[47:02]
Joanna
Okay, so what would she think of your frames?
[47:06]
Michael Wolff
I don't know. Maybe. I have no idea.
[47:10]
Joanna
Well, it's.
[47:10]
Michael Wolff
What do you think of my frames?
[47:12]
Joanna
I like your frames. I like your frames. And we've had this conversation because of the Trump hair and how he chose it as a feature. It's very distinguishing feature. And you made the point, which several of you commented on actually, that Joe Biden was translucent. You couldn't actually see it.
[47:28]
Michael Wolff
All he had to do was get a pair of dark glasses. Cary Grant.
[47:33]
Carvana Announcer
Well.
[47:33]
Joanna
And as I pointed out, he always had his aviators. That was his distinguishing feature. But he didn't wear them all the time. And as you pointed out, they're very light frames. You wanted him to wear thick black Joe 90 glasses. He would have looked very different.
[47:49]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, he would have won. We wouldn't be in this mess but for a set of dark frames.
[47:56]
Joanna
Is that true, though? Is that true? So Darlene Graham. Trump may well withdraw his endorsement of her, but for now, she's got it.
[48:07]
Michael Wolff
The primary that she's running in, which is today. So there'll be a result tonight, tomorrow, and the likelihood is that she will not get over 50%. So then there will be a runoff. And then. Actually, I think the likelihood is that she'll probably be defeated.
[48:26]
Joanna
Well, we can talk about it on Thursday. I mean, super interesting for Darlene Graham, especially if she hasn't voted for Donald Trump.
[48:32]
Michael Wolff
But it would really be interesting if she won and then she turned out
[48:35]
Joanna
to be a liberal.
[48:37]
Michael Wolff
A Trojan horse.
[48:38]
Joanna
A liberal optician.
[48:39]
Michael Wolff
Trojan horse, Optician. Graham. Fantastic. And then she couldn't. And then with the Senate majority in the balance, then she could become a Democrat.
[48:54]
Joanna
Wow, that is interesting. What do you think is gonna happen with Susan Collins and Maine? Do you think she's gonna pull through?
[49:03]
Michael Wolff
I do not.
[49:05]
Joanna
Oh, so you think Troy Jackson's gonna win?
[49:08]
Michael Wolff
I do. I may change that opinion, but at this point, I think she's got a problem.
[49:16]
Joanna
Well, she was clearly trying.
[49:17]
Michael Wolff
I mean, she's had a problem, but I think it's getting worse. And I think every indication from Trump is the sense that they know it's getting worse.
[49:28]
Joanna
Interesting. Very interesting. So we have some poems. The first one is from someone called MZ Coffee. 1, 2, 3. The judges have blocked the ballroom. They've probably sealed their own doom. They're on the side of right. Trump will continue to fight While the people get nothing but gloom.
[49:49]
Michael Wolff
More gloom, more gloom.
[49:50]
Joanna
I know I missed out more. Cause I wanted to give it a slightly better rhythm. Sorry, I was editing as I went there. Okay, now we've got another one from Edits, who is a regular contributor of Limericks. Of the myriad threats that beset us, who'd have thought the only one that would get us wouldn't be Proud boys or Oath Keepers? Or even aging Soviet sleepers, but just a humble bag of crispy green lettuce.
[50:16]
Michael Wolff
Okay, that's gotta be the winner.
[50:18]
Joanna
I think that is the winner. But there's one more, and obviously that was referring to Cyclospora, which is seven times higher than it normally is at this time of year. Thanks, fda. There once was a fellow named Trump whose coiffure acquired a new bump. Was it wig? Was it glue? An extension or two? Only his hairdresser knows about that clump. That's from JF5336. I'm very curious about the names that people choose for themselves online. When I go on our premiere editions and lots of our viewers and listeners are chatting away, I've got to know some of their kind of strange names. Like there's Jock McFrosty from Canada. There's Hippie Artist 1. There's a whole range of. Of interesting names. And then obviously there's Garfried and there's edits. And, you know, people pick. I guess maybe they're old nicknames or whatever.
[51:23]
Michael Wolff
I don't know.
[51:24]
Joanna
You're just my wife.
[51:24]
Michael Wolff
I mean, mine. Yeah. I'm Michael Wolfe, nyc. It seems like. Are these people trying to hide their identities? Are they trying to augment their identities?
[51:34]
Joanna
I'm not sure. You can tell us. You can tell us, but if you have been. Thank you.
[51:39]
Michael Wolff
And are these identities specifically for YouTube? Do these go across other platforms?
[51:45]
Joanna
No, I think they're specifically for YouTube.
[51:48]
Michael Wolff
What's your YouTube handle?
[51:51]
Joanna
My YouTube handle is beast Joanna.
[51:54]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's odd, too.
[51:56]
Joanna
Is it odd? It's fairly straightforward. You should be Beast Michael. I'm going to get Beast Michael for you. I don't want to be Beast Michael. I want to be Michael Wolfe, nyc. Okay. Okay. All right. I just wanted to indicate who I'm from. Beast Joanna, if you have been, thank you for putting up with us. Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe.
[52:19]
Michael Wolff
People ask me what you're like. I say, she's a beast.
[52:22]
Joanna
Okay. Do you say that?
[52:25]
Michael Wolff
No, but I'm going to from now on.
[52:27]
Joanna
Okay. Lordy, Lordy. How much more of this? How much more of this?
[52:34]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's an interesting thing. How much more do we do with this for another year, another year after? And what do we do if this goes on after he's no longer the President of the United States?
[52:47]
Joanna
Well, I think we know it will. I mean, you've just painted a picture where he takes the money he's raised, he takes grift Force One, the Qatari plane. He sets up, essentially, an alternative administration in Mar? A Lago and cleaves the base to him.
[53:02]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I think that that is true. So you mean we're gonna be doing this until he dies?
[53:09]
Joanna
Until he goes to Mar? A Lago in the sky, yeah. Until he goes to that great patio in the sky where he can dance to his heart's content. YMCA dies, Trump dies.
[53:22]
Michael Wolff
Okay, I guess we gotta be on the scene for that.
[53:26]
Joanna
But first, the midterms. Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.

Summary7 min read

Inside Trump's Head — "Dark Truth About Trump's Plane Switch Leak: Wolff"

Podcast: Inside Trump’s Head
Hosts: Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Episode Date: August 12, 2026

Episode Overview

This episode dives into a bombshell story: the recent leak about Donald Trump being smuggled onto a secret plane via a food truck, while Air Force One served as a decoy. Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles dissect the psychology and political strategy behind Trump orchestrating and leaking such stunts, the curious state of the White House press corps and the Washington Post, the influence of key Trump insiders, and Trump's current turmoil at the lowest point in his political career. The conversation expands to include crisis distractions, deception as governance, AOC’s surprising political ascent, anti-vax messaging, the calculation behind it, and vivid speculation on the evolving 2026 political landscape.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

Trump Leaked the Plane Switch Himself (01:00, 13:10, 24:18)

Revelation: The recent tale of Trump secretly boarding another plane while Air Force One flew with press/staff as a decoy was deliberately leaked—by Trump himself.
- Michael Wolff: "The Secret Service certainly would not leak this. So who leaked it? This is an easy answer." (01:00)
- Joanna: "Donald Trump leaked it." (01:07)
- Wolff: "He has a method here and the method is now more attention on me. The assassination theme has worked very well for Donald Trump and I think that he wants people to know he's the target. I'm the main target. He is at the lowest point in his political career. So what this man needs is distraction." (01:08)

Motivations Behind the Leak

"What this man needs is distraction. His a proxy plane being hidden in a food truck. All of this. People are going to shoot him out of the sky. He's number one. This is great for Trump." (01:08)

Theatrics and Showmanship

Joanna compares the operation to a stage trick:
- "It's like those three cups. And you have to guess which one Donald Trump is under. And they're always moving them around." (04:58)

Press Corps & Media: Still Missing the Real Story (08:02–11:25)

The White House press corps was fooled by the charade, demonstrating their vulnerability and Trump’s flair for orchestrating chaos — "yet once again, the White House press corps missing the story." (08:02, Wolff)
Discussion on the Washington Post’s tumultuous leadership and its newfound freedom after Will Lewis’s exit:
- Wolff: "No one is really running the Washington Post now. And without anyone running the paper, it's gotten great." (09:27)
- Expand on how media leadership mirrors boss desires until the apparatus is left rudderless, providing unique windows of genuine reporting.

How the Plane Trick Has Happened Before; The Natalie Harp Angle (12:21, 15:52)

Revealed that such stealth plane switches occurred previously, and Wolff chronicled them in his books.
Natalie Harp’s meltdown: She was mistakenly placed on the decoy plane, causing chaos until she was transferred to the real Trump plane — "because then Trump found out...she may raise such a ruckus that Trump found out...then she was moved over." (18:03, Wolff)
Background on Harp: Now Trump's indispensable confidante and "human printer," Harp would hand-deliver ‘good news’ articles to Trump on the golf course. (17:22–17:50)

Deeper Dive Into Theatrics, Security, and Cynicism (19:16–22:49)

Joanna: The press and staff as literal cannon fodder—"How does the press feel to know that they are the decoy? They are being set up to be shot out of the sky?" (19:16)
Trump's ruthless focus: "The Secret Service is not there to protect the press...It is all about how you keep this one guy safe." (19:51, Wolff)
Relentless double-bluffs with three planes: Trump’s own, the Qatari “Grift Force One,” and the old Air Force One. (20:57 ff)

Trump’s Next Act — The Mar-a-Lago ‘Pretender White House’ (22:00, 22:37)

Insistence that Trump plans to establish a rival seat of power at Mar-a-Lago after leaving office—"He is looking to set up...a separate White House at Mar A Lago. When he leaves, he's funding it by all these corporations he's now extorting money from. And he's gonna have this big plane, the Qatar Air Force One." (22:00)
Noted ongoing financial schemes, especially via "Grift Force One” and the work of fundraiser Meredith O'Rourke.

Truth Social’s Demise (23:11–24:03)

Discuss the "reverse network effect": "This began as a social network of one and will return to a social network of one." (23:32, Wolff)

Distraction as Governance & Desperation Moves (24:18–26:41)

"He is at the lowest point in his political career...what this man needs is distraction." (24:18, Wolff)
How Trump leverages headlines for attention and survival, especially when entangled in tough geopolitical standoffs:
- "Iranians have got him in an absolute chokehold...he's completely between a rock and a hard place." (25:35, Joanna)

AOC Freezing Her Eggs & Trump's Bizarre Response (29:41–34:10)

AOC (Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez) now leads the Democratic field, is only 36, and announced she’s freezing her eggs—eliciting a bizarre, confused reaction from Trump:
- "She’s getting her eggs frozen. And then...he says, Hillary is getting her eggs frozen. He says, Hillary, Yes...completely confused from the get go" (31:18, Joanna/Wolff)
Wolff theorizes Trump is fishing for a new 'cultural wedge': "Maybe he has...identified a cultural moment...which will galvanize, I don't know, the MAGA base. And at that point...he connects the freezing your eggs to birthright citizenship. So I don't know. Is then the question, can you deport an egg?" (32:22, Wolff)
Commentary on the normalization of egg freezing, with Joanna pointing out Costco now offers fertility drugs. (33:51, Joanna)

Trump’s Anti-Vax Turn & Public Health (36:21–41:30)

Trump’s latest move: Telling voters he split up his children’s MMR (measles, mumps, rubella) vaccines, signaling anti-vax pandering:
- Wolff: "He is trying to hold on to the MAGA base. If he can't turn out the MAGA base in the midterms, it will be a blue sweep. He'll lose the Senate on that basis." (37:24)
- Joanna: "You cannot believe he is trying to do this. I find it unfathomable. It's like saying to people...stop washing your hands." (38:33)
- Wolff: "If he could say, don't wash your hands and keep the Senate, he would say, don't wash your hands." (39:00)
Wolff affirms Trump was not always anti-vax, but COVID and RFK’s influence shifted the calculation: "Prior to Covid, vaccines had never even crossed his mind. And he's...a germaphobe kind of guy." (39:40)
Joanna and Wolff mock Trump’s claim of accompanying his children to the pediatrician:
- Wolff: "The idea that Donald Trump ever accompanied a child to a pediatrician is preposterous." (41:01)
Motivation: Appealing to the evangelical, anti-vax base for midterm turnout. (41:45)

Senate Races and Political Surrealism (43:53–49:02)

Extended riffing on candidate Darlene Graham (Lindsey Graham’s sister), who may be a liberal and hasn’t even voted in key elections.
Discussion about Susan Collins’ likely defeat in Maine and the ascendency of AOC.

Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

On Trump's need for attention and distraction:
- "This is great for Trump." (01:08, Wolff)
Decoy Plane Absurdity:
- "Chicken, fish or Trump?" (11:48, Joanna poking fun at the food-cart subplot)
On Natalie Harp:
- "She carried the printer when he was on the golf course...delivered them to him at each hole." (17:29, Wolff)
On Truth Social’s fate:
- "This began as a social network of one and will return to a social network of one." (23:32, Wolff)
On AOC's eggs:
- "Is then the question, can you deport an egg?" (33:29, Wolff)
On Trump's vaccine story:
- "The idea that Donald Trump ever accompanied a child to a pediatrician is preposterous." (41:01, Wolff)
Joanna’s anti-vax analogy:
- "It's like saying to people, stop washing your hands." (38:33, Joanna)

Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Description | Timestamp | |---------|-------------|-----------| | 1 | Trump’s plane leak revealed as self-orchestrated | 01:00, 13:10 | | 2 | Motivations behind leak; assassination theme | 01:08–01:50, 13:10–13:37 | | 3 | Media/press deception & Washington Post chaos | 08:02, 09:27 | | 4 | The real companion: Natalie Harp’s story | 15:52–18:03 | | 5 | Decoy plane logistics, Qatari jet, Grift Force One | 20:57–22:37 | | 6 | Truth Social’s network effect in reverse | 23:32 | | 7 | AOC’s eggs & Trump’s 'can you deport an egg?' | 29:41–34:10 | | 8 | Trump’s anti-vax pivot & MMR story | 36:21–41:30 | | 9 | Darlene Graham’s candidacy and Senate speculation | 43:53–49:02 |

Conclusion

This lively, incisive episode showcases Wolff and Coles at their best: mixing insider knowledge, gallows humor, and political analysis to reveal not just what Trump and his orbit do, but why they do it — and what it means for the fate of American democracy. Notably, the episode illustrates how even Trump’s most absurd-seeming escapades are deliberate attempts to control the news cycle, distract from failure, and reinforce his mythology, especially in moments of deep vulnerability.

For those seeking clarity about Trump’s methods and the dysfunctions defining this era, this is essential listening — or reading.

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Transcript256 lines

[00:01]
Ryan Reynolds
Evening.
[00:02]
Michael Wolff
Buyer's remorse. Buy a new car. I'll be moving in. Let's get started.
[00:08]
Carvana Announcer
Sorry, I think there's been a mistake. I bought it from Carvana.
[00:11]
Ryan Reynolds
You what?
[00:11]
Carvana Announcer
Yeah, great price. I even have seven days to love it or return it.
[00:15]
Michael Wolff
So there's no.
[00:16]
Carvana Announcer
No, no buyer's remorse. More like buyers rejoice.
[00:20]
Michael Wolff
I guess I'll let myself out. Congratulations. I mean it.
[00:25]
Carvana Announcer
Buyers rejoice. Buy your car today on Carvana. Limitations and exclusions may apply. See our seven day return policy@carvana.com hey,
[00:30]
Ryan Reynolds
it's Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
[00:52]
Carvana Announcer
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50gb. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[01:00]
Michael Wolff
The Secret Service certainly would not leak this. So who leaked it? This is an easy answer.
[01:07]
Joanna
Donald Trump leaked it.
[01:08]
Michael Wolff
Of course. He has a method here and the method is now more attention on me. The assassination theme has worked very well for Donald Trump and I think that he wants people to know he's the target. I'm the main target. He is at the lowest point in his political career. So what this man needs is distraction. His a proxy plane being hidden in a food truck. All of this. People are going to shoot him out of the sky. He's number one. This is great for Trump.
[01:51]
Joanna
Michael, Joanna, Happy anniversary.
[01:58]
Michael Wolff
This is our 25th anniversary as husband and wife.
[02:05]
Joanna
It's our one year anniversary for inside Trump's head. We started having no idea what we were going to talk about and in fact, our producer Ryan went back and listened to our first episode, which was 45 minutes of talking about one subject
[02:22]
Michael Wolff
and he didn't like it.
[02:23]
Joanna
He didn't like it. He was rude about it. He said, oh, it was very much a pilot was his dismissive tone. But we figured out by the numbers. 9,000 minutes, 70,000 comments. Thank you. Please keep them coming. 18 cardigans, 37 t shirts and 12 blazers later, we're still going. For new people joining us, just remind me of what we're doing here, how
[02:48]
Michael Wolff
we got into this. I've written four Books about. About Donald Trump in the first administration, I spent almost seven months inside the White House. And that's another story for another time how that happened. But we represent a particular point of view about how to talk about Donald Trump. And the effort is not to talk about him, as most of the media does, from the outside, looking at him as a fairly typical political creature and political phenomenon. We look at this from. Try to do this from the inside, that what goes on in this government is atypical in every way, because it all comes out of one man's head. What he's thinking, what he's feeling, what he doesn't know. So he has to cover up by pretending that he knows. And everyone around him is forced to not only listen to him, but absolutely do what he wants, because you cannot disagree with him. You can't really even talk to him because he doesn't listen. I mean, this is a departure in every way from what we understand American politics and American democracy to be about. It is just one singular guy. And this is not an argument to say that he's a would be dictator or a would be despot or any of these things. Actually, it's something else to say that he is wholly unique. He is not like anyone you or anyone you know has known. And understanding what that is in what that does to the nature of government and the nature of politics and the nature of the future of this country is what we're trying to get at and trying to get at from understanding what motivates this guy.
[04:59]
Joanna
And I am the chief content officer of the Daily Beast. My background's as a journalist. What we do at the Daily Beast is chronicle the crazy in the White House, which leads us perfectly to this insane story about Trump and doing a whole David Blaine. Now you see me, now you don't. Which plane am I on? It's like those three cups. And you have to guess which one Donald Trump is under. And they're always moving them around. And you're like, I think it's that one. No, it's this one. And don't forget to like and subscribe so much to discuss Air Force One. The fact that this, in fact, you knew about this and you knew that this was something that the president did. AOCs eggs.
[05:41]
Ryan Reynolds
No.
[05:41]
Michael Wolff
Which is, you know, I have to note this. Why don't people just read my books?
[05:46]
Joanna
I know. Well, I'm gonna read part of your book out loud to remind people this happened during the campaign and Natalie Hart was involved. So stay tuned for that Darlene Graham. It Turns out probably didn't vote for Donald Trump. She becomes more interesting as a candidate, more interesting by the day because we know that she gave money to people that wanted to leave open the option of abortion in North Carolina or possibly South Carolina. South Carolina, right. Yeah, South Carolina, because the former governor Mark Sanford is going to give her a run for her money in the Senate race. Anyway, so the plane aocs eggs Trump saying that he took his children for their vaccination appointments. All three of them. All three kids for their vaccination appointments. And he says that he split the MMR vaccine up.
[06:42]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, let's get to, let's get to this. Let's not dissect this right now.
[06:47]
Joanna
Well, I'm laying out a menu for people.
[06:49]
Michael Wolff
Yes, let's give it its own segment because this is totally preposterous.
[06:56]
Joanna
Totally preposterous.
[06:57]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back. So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment
[07:18]
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of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan. Required $15 per month equivalent taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[07:27]
Joanna
All right, but what is also preposterous is this idea of filling Air Force One with your staff and your press, sending it off into the sky as a decoy while you are smuggled out of a food truck into a completely different plane and appearing David Blaine, like all jazz hands when you land in London, saying, oh, that was a great journey. And no one, no one, the entire White House press pool was any the wiser that he'd been on a completely different plane.
[08:03]
Michael Wolff
So this is both a, a, a kind of COVID up by the President and the White House and the Secret Service. And yet once again, the White House press corps missing the story.
[08:18]
Joanna
Totally missing the story. I mean, the crazy is they literally were on the plane and they must have thought, why isn't the President coming back to talk to us? Because he always goes back to talk to them. Because he loves it, he wants them, he loves to insult them. He knows that will be the next story. But I guess my other question too is Washington Post got this story. Which by the way, has hugely improved since Will Lewis left, interestingly.
[08:45]
Michael Wolff
Well, let's set the story for that. The Washington Post, which is owned by Jeff Bezos, a year ago. A year ago. Plus he brought in an editor by the name of Will Lewis, a British editor.
[08:58]
Joanna
Well, CEO. He brought him in as CEO, as
[09:01]
Michael Wolff
CEO, but to run the place. And that was a year, more than a year of chaos within the Washington Post and Will Lewis by. By many estimations, destroying the paper.
[09:21]
Joanna
Right. I think he came in a couple of years ago and then left. Was fired at the beginning of this year. Right.
[09:27]
Michael Wolff
Yes. The timeline escapes me, but. But he was the last. The last per. No one is running the Washington. This is the interesting point. No one is really running the Washington Post now. And without anyone running the paper, it's gotten great.
[09:45]
Joanna
Yeah, I mean, you know, well, and why Will Lewis is interesting is because he was. He was a Murdoch guy who was alleged to have deleted 30 million emails from the servers at News International, the headquarters of Murdoch's British newspapers, the Times, the Sun, then the News of the World to protect the company against the phone hacking scandal.
[10:11]
Michael Wolff
So in apparatchik, a suck up always about who he's reporting to, who his boss is. And I think you can probably see very clearly that he was running the newsroom as a reflection of what he thought Jeff Bezos wanted. So whether Jeff Bezos wanted it or not, he was that interesting thing in which the guy on top may want something, but it's then carried out to an extreme by the suck ups around him, in this case, Will Lewis. And when that person is removed, well, Jeff Bezos may continue to want what he wants, but the people there, nobody's the point person for giving it to him. So it goes on. The organization can go on in a relatively unfettered way until Jeff Bezos says, this is not what I want. And then he has to hire some other apparatchik and suck up to enforce his desires. But in the time when there is not such a person, it's a brief renaissance.
[11:25]
Joanna
Anyway, as media people, we've all immediately digressed to the media story, which is not the story here, except that the Washington Post brought broke this story of Trump being smuggled via a food cart into a different container.
[11:40]
Michael Wolff
A food container, really?
[11:42]
Joanna
I imagine there was such.
[11:43]
Michael Wolff
Not a food cart. You think the stewardesses are going down?
[11:48]
Joanna
Chicken, fish or Trump with Trump?
[11:51]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's one of those big containers that comes up and then they take the food out.
[11:58]
Joanna
That would be really depressed if you were served Trump for lunch. But Open the foil pouch and there he is. Okay, this has gone down an absurdist route. The point is this. You actually wrote about this in all or Nothing. Can I.
[12:13]
Michael Wolff
Well, before, before, before we get to that. Okay, get. I think we, we. Let's continue the Washington Post theme. Who leaked this?
[12:22]
Joanna
Right. Who leaked the story that Air Force One was full of journalists and staff and sent off as a target while Trump was safely.
[12:32]
Michael Wolff
Let me give a further background here that this has happened before, which, which we will discuss. No one knows about it and no one knows about most of the things that the Secret Service does for a very good reason. These are all security precautions. When people begin to know about. If people know about them, then they're no longer part of the security protocol, are no longer a safe part. So people don't know about this. The Secret Service certainly would not leak this. So who leaked it? This is an easy answer.
[13:10]
Joanna
Donald Trump leaked it, of course. How can he keep anything secret?
[13:14]
Michael Wolff
Well, it's not just that. He has a method here and the method is now more attention on me. And also there's a theme here. The assassination theme has worked very well for Donald Trump. And I think that he wants people to know he's the target. I'm the main target.
[13:37]
Joanna
I'm the guy number one in the world. Nobody's ever seen anything like it. I'm the biggest target. And also totally worked for him. After Butler, Pennsylvania, do you remember Elon coming out and saying, I didn't really think much of the guy, but then after that, I was all in. So many people were all in.
[13:53]
Michael Wolff
This was reported by the Washington Post first and then picked up by the New York Times and other news organizations as though this was a unique, a scandal even. And all they had to do was read my.
[14:14]
Joanna
Read your book. So I'm going to read your book. Where it turns out we discover. Spoiler alert, this has happened before. All right, so this is. We're picking up just after the Butler, Pennsylvania assassination attempt where Thomas Matthew Crooks is the white youth who attempts to kill him, comes very close and is then very quickly dispensed of by the Secret Service. So this is Trump you're talking about. He was being singled out as a historic figure and an agent of history with unknown forces trying to stop him. Thomas Crooks, the first would be assassin, had been using encrypted platforms based in Belgium, Germany and New Zealand. Evidence repeated by people in the Trump camp of something larger than a lone figure, foreign adversaries is the description Trump darkly used. We just don't know if these guys are speaking to foreign adversaries. I hear they might be the Iranians probably, but possibly Ukraine. In his conversations, the plot on his life, his legal difficulties, the scheme to replace Joe Biden, all easily ran together. Portents of the case he would make if he lost, or of the investigations to come if he won. Meanwhile, following the first attempt, and now with redoubled fervor, security had been overhauled and upgraded. More evidence to him of plots in progress. Trump Force One had become the decoy plane. His staff and guests available to be shot out of the sky with Trump himself on a secret flight.
[15:52]
Michael Wolff
And this happened several times and either as a function of the Secret Service getting reports of whatever significance or. And also Trump kind of starting to like this. And so it would be, it was very clear there would be a proxy plane with press on it, with some staff on it, and then Trump would be on another plane. And in at least one instance there was a meltdown. And actually this is why I came to know about this, because Natalie Harp was put on the proxy plane. Natalie Harp, as we have discussed many times before, is Trump's constant companion, his 32 year old constant companion, effectively one of his main advisors at this point, the person who does all of his or a significant amount of his social media and who is really his primary gatekeeper.
[17:03]
Joanna
So Natalie Harp, who's clutching, I mean, she walks around with four phones, two computers, an enormous backpack, right?
[17:10]
Michael Wolff
And she is always, she is the person, no question, the person who spends the most time with him, connected to him really.
[17:22]
Joanna
And she's also known as the human printer because she figured out a way of driving around on a golf course after him. On the golf course.
[17:29]
Michael Wolff
Well, that was her first, that's how she came to her, her position of prominence with Donald Trump, that she carried the printer when he was on the golf course. She would print out emails and good news emails, fawning articles and then delivered, deliver them to him at each hole.
[17:50]
Joanna
And at one point she, I think, spent the summer sleeping in the locker room at Bedminster to be close to him.
[17:57]
Michael Wolff
Reported by Michael Wolfe.
[17:59]
Joanna
Oh, reported by Michael Wolff there, indeed. So Natalie Harp.
[18:03]
Michael Wolff
So she was, she was put on the proxy plane and had a, just, just went crazy and got everyone involved with this and in fact then was moved on to the Trump plane because then Trump found out. She may raise such a ruckus that Trump found out or this, this, this arise. Somebody had to tell Trump, well, we can't go anywhere. And then she was moved over To Trump's. From the proxy plane to Trump's.
[18:34]
Joanna
Do we know if. Do we know if Natalie Hart was also smuggled in the food truck on this most recent.
[18:43]
Michael Wolff
You know, that's what's new in this story. The subterfuge here of how you actually get on a secret plane, which hadn't crossed my mind, that actually went. When you get on a plane, people see you get on the plane.
[18:57]
Joanna
Well, and also when you're that famous, I mean, this may be why he's been wearing that strange new hair. Cause some days he wears it, other days he doesn't. So perhaps it was some kind of disguise that he's been playing with. Or perhaps they put him in some kind of gray coat as if he was working on the food truck.
[19:17]
Michael Wolff
But now the interesting question would be, is for the press, how does the press feel to. To know that they are the decoy? They are being set up to be shot out of the sky?
[19:30]
Joanna
Well, I shouldn't think they feel very pleased about it. I mean, he said, didn't he, Famously, if I go, you go. At one point when someone asks him about being a target, when he comes back to talk to the press and he goes, well, if I go, you go. Not be true.
[19:48]
Michael Wolff
Not to be true.
[19:49]
Joanna
Yet another presidential lie.
[19:52]
Michael Wolff
Now, of course, there's a larger context here, which is this is the protocols. The Secret Service does everything to protect the President of the United States. The Secret Service is not there to protect the press, should not be actually there to protect the press. It is all about how you keep this one guy safe. And in fact, were something to happen to the proxy plane, were the plane to be shot out, I guess we would be at war anyway, and that would be an extraordinary event. And no one would feel sorry for reporters.
[20:31]
Joanna
Well, but it's also the White House staff, right? That the staff traveling with him, that support staff, were also on the old Air Force One because the. Cause the other thing that was going on.
[20:42]
Michael Wolff
Well, not Natalie Harp.
[20:45]
Joanna
Well, we don't know where.
[20:45]
Michael Wolff
We don't know fairly.
[20:47]
Joanna
We don't know where Natalie Harp was. But there's a sort of double bluff
[20:50]
Michael Wolff
here, although I can guess.
[20:52]
Joanna
Okay, so you think she was with him in the food truck.
[20:55]
Michael Wolff
She's resourceful.
[20:57]
Joanna
Interesting. Well, perhaps we can figure out where was Natalie Harp. But there's also a double bluff here. Cause you've got Grift Force One, the plane that Qatar has given him, that he flies over to the NATO summit, in which then Secret Service say, well, this isn't good. Enough, it's not high quality enough, it's not secure enough, especially with the latest threats. So we're going to put you on the old Air Force One, which is secure enough, but we're not actually going
[21:28]
Michael Wolff
to put you on the old because
[21:30]
Joanna
it's not secure enough, it turns out. So we're going to put you on another little plane, which probably isn't secure at all, but nevertheless, it's a different plane. So it'll throw your adversaries off, or adversaries of
[21:44]
Michael Wolff
totally. And then we can digress again to the Qatari plane, because before our eyes, and we should watch this. He is trying to steal that plane. He is going to steal that plane.
[21:59]
Joanna
Well, I think he told us he stealing.
[22:01]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, well, it's all this stuff about the library. And it was going to be on display. It was going to be an exhibit at the library. What he's going to do. And I think we should keep coming back to this. He is looking to set up. So all this thing about third term, he's gonna. Willy Wooney. That's a diversion. What he's going to do is set up a separate White House at Mar A Lago. When he leaves, he's funding it by all these corporations he's now extorting money from. And he's gonna have this big plane, the Qatar Air Force One.
[22:37]
Joanna
So this is the money that we talked about last week. Meredith o' Rourke has raised his princess of Darkness, as he refers to her, she's raised $800 million largely by shaking down companies.
[22:49]
Ryan Reynolds
Right.
[22:49]
Michael Wolff
And she will continue to shake, and this will be billions by the time this administration is over. And that will be part of the nut that finances this pretender White House in Mar A Lago.
[23:04]
Joanna
Okay, well, I'm glad that that's going to fund him because Truth Social, his business is not going to fund him. It lost 200, I think $38 million.
[23:12]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's not the. I mean, it's been losing money, of course. Of course. All along. And. But the interesting thing is that the, the relatively small universe of people who have been on Truth Social are fleeing a sinking ship.
[23:30]
Joanna
They're dwindling.
[23:33]
Michael Wolff
This began as a social network of one and will return to a social network of one. But it's an interesting kind of reverse network effect. I mean, the technology business is based on this idea of the network effect. You build a network and then it expands exponentially. So this is going in the opposite direction. And it's a kind of. I mean, it's a kind of its own tracking pole, in a sense.
[24:04]
Joanna
Well, what I find when I'm on it, and I know you're not on it, but I am. I get ads for knives and I get ads for assault weapons. Air Force One. Trump leaks it because he wants the attention. He wants everybody to know it's a,
[24:19]
Michael Wolff
you know, remember, we're in the middle of this. He is at the lowest point in his political career. The polls are at the lowest point in his political career. Nothing is going right. He's stuck in the middle of a war that he promised not to get into, got into, can't get out of. So what this man needs is distraction. What is another story that, what's a headline that is, that takes away from all the other headlines and his proxy plane being hidden in the food truck. All of this. People are gonna shoot him out of the sky. He's number one. This is great for Trump.
[25:05]
Ryan Reynolds
Hey, it's Ryan Reynolds here for Mint Mobile. Now, I was looking for fun ways to tell you that Mint's offer of unlimited Premium Wireless for $15 a month is back.
[25:13]
Michael Wolff
So.
[25:14]
Ryan Reynolds
So I thought it would be fun if we made $15 bills, but it turns out that's very illegal. So there goes my big idea for the commercial. Give it a try@mintmobile.com switch upfront payment
[25:27]
Carvana Announcer
of $45 for three months, $90 for six months or $180 for a 12 month plan required $15 per month equivalent to taxes and fees. Extra initial plan term only greater than 50 gigabytes. Me slow when network is busy. See terms.
[25:35]
Joanna
Well, it's also Trump and the Iranians, right? Because the Iranians have got him in an absolute chokehold. They've said, no, no, no, you know, you want the straight of Hormuz opened. Here is a list of things we want from you, all of which are frankly unacceptable. All of which the administration said they wouldn't give them. And he's, as you say, completely between a rock and a hard place. And now he's just diverting with, well, I beat you over here. I avoided your, you know, your targeting me when I was in Turkey. It's a very small win for him, I think.
[26:08]
Michael Wolff
And this is. Yeah, I mean, a couple of days distraction, but, you know, a couple of days distraction here, a couple of days distraction there, it adds up to real distraction.
[26:18]
Joanna
Right? And we've only got, what have we got, 80 odd days until the election. So if he can just keep.
[26:22]
Michael Wolff
No. And he's just looking. It's what it's always Trump triangular looking for what is the thing that he can. That he can distract people with? What is the thing that he can point to? What is the thing that. That sets up someone else to be the fall guy?
[26:41]
Joanna
We saw that a couple of people have left the White House. Dave Warrington left to be replaced by Will Scarfe as the White House general counsel. Kathy Rummler's old job when she was there. I think he's also leaving a sinking ship.
[26:54]
Ryan Reynolds
Right?
[26:54]
Michael Wolff
Yes. I mean, I think that's. I mean, we're gonna see more of that people leaving because the midterms are coming up, and then, you know, you have to get a new job. I mean, at the end of this, in 2028, where are you gonna be? And, And. Or maybe Dave Warrington is running for president.
[27:14]
Joanna
I don't think so, but I don't think so. I'm sure he's going to make some money. White House general counsel can make a lot of money going into a big white shoe law firm.
[27:21]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, absolutely. So that's not. But in the idea of him firing people, in other words. I mean. I mean, I think that's. Yes. So that would be a way to distract. Put blame on other people. But that would be from Trump's. That's people, someone, the media, us, telling him what to do. And he's not going to do. He doesn't want to do. Often quite refuses to do, even though it's the smart thing to do, but because he's being told to do it, he doesn't do it.
[27:56]
Joanna
But he may need to find someone to blame for the war because the war is going to be bad for the midterms.
[28:05]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, I'm stumped here. I'm stumped. Like, he's stumped. He doesn't know what to do.
[28:12]
Joanna
Okay.
[28:13]
Michael Wolff
So, you know, I mean, he's in. I mean, let's. The.
[28:17]
Joanna
The.
[28:18]
Michael Wolff
In the most basic terms, the Iranians won't do what he wants. They won't open the Strait of Hormuz, and we do not have enough ammunition to make them. I mean, that is it. He's run out of bullets, quite literally.
[28:35]
Joanna
It's a crazy story. And then when he screamed at Pete Hegseth at Camp David, Pete Hegseth blamed Steven Feinberg, his number two, for not telling Trump that we'd run out of munitions.
[28:48]
Michael Wolff
So, anyway, we're always looking. What is the thing always in Trump's mind? It's in his. In the muddle of his mind. He's always grasping for that one Thing that might change people, just redirect people's attention, suddenly define a new enemy. And he tried this weekend. So on Sunday morning, AOC gave an interview. Who is the leader in the polls, the Democratic polls for the Democratic nomination for president. 36 years old. So she's one year over the minimum to possibly be the President.
[29:38]
Joanna
Can we just have a moment and let that sink in?
[29:41]
Michael Wolff
Yes, you can have any moments you want.
[29:43]
Joanna
I mean, it's just such a.
[29:49]
Michael Wolff
You mean what's sinking in now that she's 36 years old?
[29:54]
Joanna
Well, all of it. That she's 36 years old. That she's never created a job in her life. That she's incredibly, she's become incredibly good at talking to crowds, that she's pulled Bernie Sanders in as a sort of security blanket. So when they go on their oligarchy tour on their private planes across America, she gets the benefit of his. Well, I don't. What is his broa sphere?
[30:19]
Michael Wolff
I mean, I think that that's minimizing what she has accomplished. I mean, the entire rise of the Democratic Socialists of America is essentially on her back. It's her project. She is certainly the spear here and I think it's a remarkable accomplishment. I think she's actually rather remarkable. She's articulate.
[30:49]
Joanna
No, no, I'm not saying she's not remarkable. I'm just saying it's remarkable that we're at this moment in America where she could be the leading candidate for the President, the Democratic President.
[31:01]
Michael Wolff
I mean, look at the, look at, I mean, we've had Donald Trump.
[31:04]
Joanna
I know, I know.
[31:05]
Michael Wolff
We've had Joe Biden.
[31:07]
Joanna
How did we get here? How did we get here, Michael?
[31:09]
Michael Wolff
Well, I don't know. It may not be a bad position to be here. She's young, she's smart, she's energetic, and
[31:19]
Joanna
you know where else she is? She's inside Trump's head.
[31:21]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And so at any rate, on Sunday morning, she went on the Sunday, Sunday programs and said, or one of the Sunday programs, I think the ABC program, and said that she was freezing her eggs. 36 year old woman, she's not married and she's planning ahead. Trump is electrified, gets on the phone and at least one of these conversations that I am privy to and says this is his opening statement. She's getting her eggs frozen. And then the person he's speaking to says, who's getting her eggs frozen? And he says, Hillary is getting her eggs frozen. He says, Hillary, Yes. So this person who's giving this is completely confused from the get go now algebraically more confused.
[32:22]
Joanna
Right. And then did Trump realize what he'd said? Because didn't the person say, well that's impossible?
[32:28]
Michael Wolff
No. Well then, then remember because it's Trump and he always repeats the last thing. Then he said again, Hillary is getting her eggs frozen. At any rate, this finally comes clear who is getting not 78 year old Hillary, but 36 year old AOC. And then, and you can see that this is a thing, that this is maybe, maybe he has. It's like taking the knee that he's hoping to have identified a cultural moment, a political cultural intersection which will galvanize, I don't know, the MAGA base. And at that point in this conversation he connects the freezing your eggs to birthright citizenship. So I don't know. Is then the question, can you deport an egg?
[33:30]
Joanna
Can you deport an egg?
[33:31]
Michael Wolff
This is also, and I think it is, you know, that this is, that this is. He is really searching. This is a thing, you know, he's got to find something. He is now without an issue, without a, you know, and issues really are not his thing. It's really without a piece of language, a connection.
[33:52]
Joanna
Well, and also it's an odd one to choose because a more and more women are freezing their eggs. Costco now offers the drugs to freeze your eggs. Right. So this is not something that's complete. I mean, yes, it's expensive, but it's now becoming within range for people who want to start a family.
[34:10]
Carvana Announcer
I think
[34:13]
Michael Wolff
every family in America knows someone. Every person in America likely has some family member who has fertility issues, I think.
[34:24]
Joanna
Right?
[34:24]
Michael Wolff
No, no, no, this is fertility questions. Or this is. Yeah, I mean, I think this is, you know, an 80 year old man saying eggs, a woman's eggs. Well, with everybody else saying, oh my God, this is just, you know, this
[34:39]
Joanna
is just what women do these days,
[34:40]
Michael Wolff
life as it is.
[34:41]
Joanna
But it also indicates she's probably thinking of running for 20, 28. Well, that's a life. It's an insurance policy to put on one side.
[34:53]
Michael Wolff
No, I think she's someone and be.
[34:54]
Joanna
If she doesn't.
[34:55]
Michael Wolff
No, I think she's clearly. I mean that actually that's the more, the more complex thing. And I wonder how Americans would react to that. I'm freezing my eggs so that I can run for president and then have a child after the presidency. Well, if she were to, I don't
[35:16]
Joanna
know, their pregnant president. We haven't had that before. We haven't had a woman president. We've definitely not had a pregnant President,
[35:23]
Michael Wolff
one of the things I think that we can assume about AOC is that she has made the political calculations here.
[35:31]
Joanna
I'm sure she has. Anyway, I wish you well. And also, it's a much more effective procedure than it used to be. It used to be incredibly expensive.
[35:40]
Michael Wolff
The operation here, by the way, is it's not that he's so brilliant at this, it's that he tries out so
[35:47]
Joanna
many things and then some stick. Yeah, okay, some sticks.
[35:53]
Michael Wolff
Fox News is streaming live on Fox 1, bringing you the stories you won't hear anywhere else. Live coverage, sharp analysis, real perspective stream now.
[36:04]
Joanna
So is his claim that he took his children to have their vaccinations likely to stick? Well, let's, let's do so, explain what was happening here.
[36:22]
Michael Wolff
Right. So that, that happened yesterday, that he gave this presser a press conference about, about vaccines and specifically the MMR vaccine,
[36:35]
Joanna
mumps, measles and rubella vaccine, which children get very early on. And it's three shots in. In one.
[36:44]
Ryan Reynolds
Right.
[36:44]
Michael Wolff
So it's one shot.
[36:45]
Joanna
Can I just say, for people listening in, I mean, we have a lot of listeners in Europe, we have a lot of listeners in New Zealand, in Australia, you must, I'm sure you cannot believe this conversation that is going on, that the President of the United States is saying that he feels some vaccines should be delayed.
[37:06]
Michael Wolff
MMR vaccine. That one vaccine, I believe, is 50 years old, 55 years old, the MMR. My older children have certainly had that, and my older children are basically my age now. So.
[37:25]
Joanna
Your older children are basically your age now? What are you saying?
[37:29]
Michael Wolff
My older children are old? They cross a line in which they're basically adults. Yeah, I mean, they're more than adults. They're my age. This has become a, it's a foundation of childhood health that these three key vaccines are given at the same time. Therefore, it increases the likelihood that you're going to get them, that you're not going, you know, the other way, which, as Trump is suggesting now, is that you should come back three, three different times. So you just set up hurdles, which is what he's trying to do, so that you don't get these, these vaccines. Now, why would he do that? Well, because he's in a desperate race at this point. I mean, he is trying to hold on to the MAGA base. If he can't turn out the MAGA base in the midterms, it will be a blue sweep. He'll lose the Senate on that basis.
[38:34]
Joanna
But the dismantling of a basic pillar of public health, I mean, you cannot believe he is trying to do this. I find it unfathomable. It's like saying to people, and I'm expecting to do this, stop washing your hands. Don't wash your hands. In fact, you know, washing your hands is bad for you. Washing your hands is one of the, you know, the basic, the basic points of hygiene.
[39:00]
Michael Wolff
Well, I, I will, I will assure you that if he could say, don't wash your hands and keep the Senate, he would say, don't wash your hands.
[39:09]
Joanna
Yeah, no, I'm sure he would. I'm excited.
[39:10]
Michael Wolff
I mean, this is all this, this is just a, A, a base and cynical political calculation. And he's in a. And, and he has not been an anti vax guy.
[39:22]
Joanna
I know. I mean, he's been until recently.
[39:24]
Michael Wolff
He's been at best, am that.
[39:27]
Joanna
Well, it's really. Since COVID Right. It was the sort of backing off from Operation Walk Speed, his one achievement of Trump one, and then understanding that RFK had whipped up a base around this.
[39:40]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, no. Prior to Covid, I think vaccines had never even crossed his mind. And he's a kind of a health, I mean, a, you know, very health conscious, you know, germaphobe kind of guy.
[39:58]
Joanna
Well, he says he is, but then you discover that he slept with Stormy Daniels. Right, well. And you said, you know, didn't use a condom with. I always think it's funny when people say, oh, I'm a germaphobe, and then you discover they have sex without a condom.
[40:10]
Michael Wolff
Right. But nevertheless, that was, that's the conceit. And there was, I mean, I'm sure, I'm sure vaccines. It just didn't cross his, His. Why would Donald Trump be concerned about vaccines?
[40:25]
Joanna
But how can we have an American president sitting in the Oval Office saying, you shouldn't give a vaccine that has been, you know, a pillar of public health for the last 55 years. And then he gives this nonsense where he says, I took my children to their vaccine appointments with my wife and we broke up the mmr. So they each had one singly. No one can refute this. His wife is dead and buried on his golf course. I'm sure the doctor's no longer alive and the kids won't know. I mean, according to Ivana's, she did all the child raising and basically presented to the children to him.
[41:02]
Michael Wolff
The idea that Donald Trump ever accompanied a child to a pediatrician is preposterous.
[41:08]
Joanna
Right.
[41:08]
Michael Wolff
I mean, it just doesn't. No, this is the, I was just gonna say this was the Worst kind of cynical behavior. But it's clearly not. I mean, he's clearly done this, done this again and again and again. This is what he does. And it is a measure at this point of his desperation.
[41:31]
Joanna
What I don't understand is why would he think that maga, the MAGA base, would want their children to go unvaccinated? Why does he think they would like to lose their children to measles or whooping cough or, you know, bring back mumps?
[41:45]
Michael Wolff
Well, I mean, he. For a very good reason. I mean, that is that position, particularly in the magabase, the evangelical MAGA base polls very high. I mean, that's all that he's looking at right now. This is. I got to bring those people out. Those people are going to be the margin of victory or defeat in key races.
[42:11]
Joanna
Well, at some point, everybody's going to know someone whose child has had measles
[42:15]
Michael Wolff
and been deadly ill. Well, not before the midterm election. If he's going to get Ken Paxton elected, he needs the anti vax MAGA evangelical crowd.
[42:30]
Joanna
Ken Paxton. Oh, you mean the impeached Attorney General in Texas.
[42:35]
Michael Wolff
I mean the impeached attorney General in Texas who is divorcing his wife now with accusations of his own efforts to match Wilt Chamberlain's record. And on top of that, with questions flying about how did the Attorney General of the state of Texas, who makes, you know, I don't know, 100 something. Yes, yes. Amass millions in property.
[43:13]
Joanna
I wonder how. I wonder how. Still, I spoke to someone last week who has been running an enormous business in Texas, and he said the Democrats were deluded if they thought James Talarico was going to win. He said even though Ken Paxton is a horrible, horrible man, he's likely to win.
[43:31]
Michael Wolff
Well, I always find that you have terrible sources. So we're going to see if that is, if that is the case, because I am optimistic about James Talaria, about the Texas race. And as a measure of that, I would say Trump's sudden fervor about the mmr. He doesn't even know what the MMR race.
[43:53]
Joanna
He doesn't. And of course, he didn't accompany his wife to his children's pediatrician appointment. So another person that may or may not hold a Senate seat in her hands, Darlene Graham, the sister of Lindsey Graham, your former source, the hawk, the
[44:11]
Michael Wolff
wild hawk, who is everyone's famous source,
[44:13]
Joanna
everybody's famous source, who famously said on the eve of the bombing, where I think actually a couple of days into the bombing, that Trump was like Roosevelt and that Bibi was like Churchill and that this was. Trump was the best wartime president ever.
[44:35]
Michael Wolff
He said that out of the front of the mouth and out of the sides of his mouth, he said other things. And the interesting thing about Darlene Graham, and I know a whole bunch of people who have tried to talk to her, because it's like she's replacing. Replacing her brother. Then people assume, well, she'll be the source. She's not talking to anybody, which is probably reasonably good politics.
[44:59]
Joanna
But does she have much to say at this point?
[45:00]
Michael Wolff
Well, she probably has nothing to say. And if she talked, she probably would say what she's not supposed to say, because it appears that Darlene Graham is the candidate of Donald Trump. He's the person who appears to have talked her into running for her brother's Senate seat.
[45:23]
Joanna
Although let us not forget that Donald Trump endorsed both people who were running for governor of South Carolina. When it became clear that his candidate wasn't going to win, he endorsed the other one.
[45:35]
Michael Wolff
This candidate, Darlene Graham, appears not to have voted for Donald Trump.
[45:42]
Joanna
So did she vote for Joe Biden or did she just not show up?
[45:45]
Michael Wolff
It appears that she did not vote in either 2016 or 2024.
[45:53]
Joanna
Did she vote for her brother?
[45:56]
Michael Wolff
She may not even have voted for her brother.
[45:59]
Joanna
Well, she said very clearly she doesn't really have any opinion of foreign affairs.
[46:05]
Michael Wolff
She may be a liberal.
[46:08]
Joanna
Darlene Graham may be a liberal. Well, she said that she wants to focus on domestic issues. Right. We know that she's interested in public health. I think she's an optician and. Well, she's the person that. Well, my point is.
[46:22]
Michael Wolff
Opticians are liberals.
[46:24]
Joanna
No, my point is she's the person saying, is it better on the. Is it better this way or this way?
[46:30]
Michael Wolff
No, no, no. That's an optometrist. The optician is the person who grinds the glass to make the lens.
[46:38]
Joanna
Oh, really? I thought an optician was the person that did the eye test, too.
[46:42]
Michael Wolff
That's the optometrist.
[46:44]
Joanna
Oh, goodness. It's so complicated.
[46:47]
Michael Wolff
Well, who does it in your country?
[46:50]
Joanna
This is my country, Michael. This is my country. So is she the person that helps
[46:55]
Michael Wolff
you have convince me or Donald Trump of that?
[46:58]
Joanna
Is she the person that helps you select frames?
[47:01]
Michael Wolff
Yes.
[47:02]
Joanna
Okay, so what would she think of your frames?
[47:06]
Michael Wolff
I don't know. Maybe. I have no idea.
[47:10]
Joanna
Well, it's.
[47:10]
Michael Wolff
What do you think of my frames?
[47:12]
Joanna
I like your frames. I like your frames. And we've had this conversation because of the Trump hair and how he chose it as a feature. It's very distinguishing feature. And you made the point, which several of you commented on actually, that Joe Biden was translucent. You couldn't actually see it.
[47:28]
Michael Wolff
All he had to do was get a pair of dark glasses. Cary Grant.
[47:33]
Carvana Announcer
Well.
[47:33]
Joanna
And as I pointed out, he always had his aviators. That was his distinguishing feature. But he didn't wear them all the time. And as you pointed out, they're very light frames. You wanted him to wear thick black Joe 90 glasses. He would have looked very different.
[47:49]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, he would have won. We wouldn't be in this mess but for a set of dark frames.
[47:56]
Joanna
Is that true, though? Is that true? So Darlene Graham. Trump may well withdraw his endorsement of her, but for now, she's got it.
[48:07]
Michael Wolff
The primary that she's running in, which is today. So there'll be a result tonight, tomorrow, and the likelihood is that she will not get over 50%. So then there will be a runoff. And then. Actually, I think the likelihood is that she'll probably be defeated.
[48:26]
Joanna
Well, we can talk about it on Thursday. I mean, super interesting for Darlene Graham, especially if she hasn't voted for Donald Trump.
[48:32]
Michael Wolff
But it would really be interesting if she won and then she turned out
[48:35]
Joanna
to be a liberal.
[48:37]
Michael Wolff
A Trojan horse.
[48:38]
Joanna
A liberal optician.
[48:39]
Michael Wolff
Trojan horse, Optician. Graham. Fantastic. And then she couldn't. And then with the Senate majority in the balance, then she could become a Democrat.
[48:54]
Joanna
Wow, that is interesting. What do you think is gonna happen with Susan Collins and Maine? Do you think she's gonna pull through?
[49:03]
Michael Wolff
I do not.
[49:05]
Joanna
Oh, so you think Troy Jackson's gonna win?
[49:08]
Michael Wolff
I do. I may change that opinion, but at this point, I think she's got a problem.
[49:16]
Joanna
Well, she was clearly trying.
[49:17]
Michael Wolff
I mean, she's had a problem, but I think it's getting worse. And I think every indication from Trump is the sense that they know it's getting worse.
[49:28]
Joanna
Interesting. Very interesting. So we have some poems. The first one is from someone called MZ Coffee. 1, 2, 3. The judges have blocked the ballroom. They've probably sealed their own doom. They're on the side of right. Trump will continue to fight While the people get nothing but gloom.
[49:49]
Michael Wolff
More gloom, more gloom.
[49:50]
Joanna
I know I missed out more. Cause I wanted to give it a slightly better rhythm. Sorry, I was editing as I went there. Okay, now we've got another one from Edits, who is a regular contributor of Limericks. Of the myriad threats that beset us, who'd have thought the only one that would get us wouldn't be Proud boys or Oath Keepers? Or even aging Soviet sleepers, but just a humble bag of crispy green lettuce.
[50:16]
Michael Wolff
Okay, that's gotta be the winner.
[50:18]
Joanna
I think that is the winner. But there's one more, and obviously that was referring to Cyclospora, which is seven times higher than it normally is at this time of year. Thanks, fda. There once was a fellow named Trump whose coiffure acquired a new bump. Was it wig? Was it glue? An extension or two? Only his hairdresser knows about that clump. That's from JF5336. I'm very curious about the names that people choose for themselves online. When I go on our premiere editions and lots of our viewers and listeners are chatting away, I've got to know some of their kind of strange names. Like there's Jock McFrosty from Canada. There's Hippie Artist 1. There's a whole range of. Of interesting names. And then obviously there's Garfried and there's edits. And, you know, people pick. I guess maybe they're old nicknames or whatever.
[51:23]
Michael Wolff
I don't know.
[51:24]
Joanna
You're just my wife.
[51:24]
Michael Wolff
I mean, mine. Yeah. I'm Michael Wolfe, nyc. It seems like. Are these people trying to hide their identities? Are they trying to augment their identities?
[51:34]
Joanna
I'm not sure. You can tell us. You can tell us, but if you have been. Thank you.
[51:39]
Michael Wolff
And are these identities specifically for YouTube? Do these go across other platforms?
[51:45]
Joanna
No, I think they're specifically for YouTube.
[51:48]
Michael Wolff
What's your YouTube handle?
[51:51]
Joanna
My YouTube handle is beast Joanna.
[51:54]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's odd, too.
[51:56]
Joanna
Is it odd? It's fairly straightforward. You should be Beast Michael. I'm going to get Beast Michael for you. I don't want to be Beast Michael. I want to be Michael Wolfe, nyc. Okay. Okay. All right. I just wanted to indicate who I'm from. Beast Joanna, if you have been, thank you for putting up with us. Thank you for joining us. And don't forget to subscribe.
[52:19]
Michael Wolff
People ask me what you're like. I say, she's a beast.
[52:22]
Joanna
Okay. Do you say that?
[52:25]
Michael Wolff
No, but I'm going to from now on.
[52:27]
Joanna
Okay. Lordy, Lordy. How much more of this? How much more of this?
[52:34]
Michael Wolff
Well, that's an interesting thing. How much more do we do with this for another year, another year after? And what do we do if this goes on after he's no longer the President of the United States?
[52:47]
Joanna
Well, I think we know it will. I mean, you've just painted a picture where he takes the money he's raised, he takes grift Force One, the Qatari plane. He sets up, essentially, an alternative administration in Mar? A Lago and cleaves the base to him.
[53:02]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I think that that is true. So you mean we're gonna be doing this until he dies?
[53:09]
Joanna
Until he goes to Mar? A Lago in the sky, yeah. Until he goes to that great patio in the sky where he can dance to his heart's content. YMCA dies, Trump dies.
[53:22]
Michael Wolff
Okay, I guess we gotta be on the scene for that.
[53:26]
Joanna
But first, the midterms. Big thanks to our production team, Ryan Murray, John Romero, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, and Neil Rosenhaus. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.