Don Lemon: Michelle Obama is Right to Avoid Trump

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast: "Don Lemon: Michelle Obama is Right to Avoid Trump"
Release Date: January 16, 2025

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Introduction

In this engaging episode of The Daily Beast Podcast, co-hosts Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee, alongside guest Julie Grace Brufke from Axios and Don Lemon, delve into the intricate dynamics of the upcoming U.S. inauguration. The discussion navigates through the confirmation hearings of Trump’s nominees, the controversial selection of Tulsi Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence, and the notable absence of Michelle Obama from the inaugural events. The episode provides insightful analysis on the intersection of politics, media, and personal narratives shaping the current political landscape.

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Inauguration Insights and Speculations

Joanna Coles opens the conversation with a lighthearted take on the upcoming inauguration, pondering over the attire choices of key figures and the potential appearances of tech moguls like Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and Jeff Bezos. The hosts humorously speculate on the presence of Tesla's new bot and the overall spectacle surrounding the event.

Notable Quote:

"And it's like the best dinner party you’ve ever been to, just without any food. So actually it’s the worst dinner party, but the best conversation."
— Joanna Coles [00:29]

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Confirmation Hearings: Pete Hegseth’s Path to Defense Secretary

Julie Grace Brufke provides an insider perspective on Pete Hegseth’s Senate confirmation hearings for the role of Defense Secretary. She highlights the political maneuvering within the Republican leadership and the pressure exerted on moderate senators to secure Hegseth’s confirmation.

Notable Quotes:

"Republican leadership's feeling really good about his odds right now. They feel like he did well in that hearing."
— Hugh Doherty [13:31]

"He spoke the language of MAGA. He spoke about being saved by God. He didn’t express shame or regret."
— Don Lemon [16:02]

Hugh Doherty, Daily Beast Executive Editor, elaborates on the strategic financial campaigns aimed at persuading undecided senators, emphasizing the influence of MAGA politics on the confirmation process.

Notable Quote:

"There was a ton of money spent in Iowa kind of pressuring her, especially with threats for primaries for her in her next election."
— Hugh Doherty [14:56]

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Tulsi Gabbard’s Controversial Nomination

The podcast transitions to discussing Tulsi Gabbard’s nomination for Director of National Intelligence, shedding light on her unconventional upbringing and associations with the Science of Identity Foundation.

Don Lemon introduces a groundbreaking investigation revealing Gabbard’s early life within a Hare Krishna-inspired group led by Chris Butler, also known as Jagad Guru. The revelation includes offensive statements made by Butler against LGBTQ+ communities, raising questions about Gabbard’s suitability for a national security role.

Notable Quote:

"Tulsi Gabbard may be the candidate that's really difficult to digest for the Republicans."
— Don Lemon [20:31]

Highlighted Clip:

"They have no logic in their explanations that it's somehow normal to shove their fists up each other's anuses..."
— Chris Butler [22:05]

Julie Grace Brufke discusses the potential hurdles Gabbard faces in gaining bipartisan support, considering her past political stances and the concerns surrounding her leadership qualities in intelligence.

Notable Quote:

"She hasn't really satisfied a lot of their questions. There’s a lot of pressure for them to rally around her."
— Hugh Doherty [25:30]

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Michelle Obama’s Absence and Its Implications

A significant portion of the discussion centers on Michelle Obama’s decision to abstain from attending the inauguration. The hosts analyze the symbolic weight of her absence juxtaposed against the presence of prominent tech leaders.

Samantha Bee articulates the collective sentiment of not wanting to participate in what she perceives as performative acts that undermine democratic values.

Notable Quote:

"When they go low, we go high. We did that. Although I think when they go low, we should go to the crust of the earth right now."
— Samantha Bee [32:40]

Joanna Coles emphasizes the importance of Michelle Obama’s decision as a stand against normalizing certain political behaviors, reinforcing the need for principled leadership.

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Media’s Role and Independent Journalism

Don Lemon and Samantha Bee explore the evolving landscape of media, highlighting the rise of independent media platforms and their impact on traditional journalism. They discuss the challenges and freedoms associated with independent reporting, especially in a polarized political environment.

Samantha Bee reflects on her transition from CNN to independent media, emphasizing the value of authenticity and direct audience engagement.

Notable Quote:

"The only party I believe now, and I don't think they're doing such a great job of it, the only party that's trying to keep our democracy intact are Democrats."
— Samantha Bee [34:05]

Joanna Coles and Julie Grace Brufke concur on the necessity of independent media in holding power accountable and fostering informed public discourse.

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Closing Remarks and Future Outlook

As the episode concludes, the hosts recap the critical issues discussed, reaffirming their commitment to providing incisive political analysis. Don Lemon acknowledges the shared mission of maintaining democratic integrity through transparent and fearless journalism.

Notable Quote:

"It takes a while because every time I did my show... sort of the things that I did in the beginning were sort of very similar to what I did in traditional media."
— Samantha Bee [41:47]

Joanna Coles humorously invites listeners to engage with the podcast community, reinforcing the collaborative spirit of The Daily Beast Podcast.

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Conclusion

This episode of The Daily Beast Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of the current political climate surrounding the U.S. inauguration, the complexities of confirming Trump’s nominees, and the essential role of media in shaping public perception. Through candid conversations and expert insights, Joanna Coles, Samantha Bee, Julie Grace Brufke, and Don Lemon present a nuanced discourse on the challenges and responsibilities facing American democracy today.

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For more in-depth analysis and discussions, subscribe to The Daily Beast Podcast and join the conversation every Thursday.

Transcript

[Samantha Bee]

Foreign.

[Joanna Coles]

We're fired up and we're welcoming you this week to the Daily Beast podcast. I'm Joanna Coles. I'm the Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

And I am Samantha B. Chief Content Officer of Not Giving a Damn. Actually, that's not really true.

[Joanna Coles]

You do give a damn.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I do give a damn. And I care deeply also about inaugural fashions. For what does one wear to the christening of the kleptocracy?

[Joanna Coles]

May I make a comment about Haggers, as I'm now going to call him? If Pete Hegsworth were Hegsworth was in Britain, he would already be named Haggers by now. And I thought he looked at his confirmation hearings as if he had been dressed by American Doll. He had socks on with a flag. He was in red, white, and blue. He had a pocket chief sticking out of his pocke. And he looked like a souvenir. He literally looked like an American souvenir. He looked like a Christmas ornament. In fact, we should actually create some for this time next year.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I'm probably the only person in America who bought the American Boy doll for mice.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and now we have a live American Boy doll.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

The hair is the same. Anyway, my son never even. I was like, it's Todd. It's for you. And he has his own drum kit. And my son was like, I don't understand you.

[Joanna Coles]

He has his own drum kit, and he's now got his own 3 million workforce, and he's got a. Whatever it is, $850 billion budget, which I'm sure he'll enjoy spending. Anyway, I am digressing, because we are going to be discussing the people and the stories that everyone is consumed by, which is what we try and do in this podcast. And of course, this week, we are discussing the inauguration, also known as the most awkwardly programmed MLK Day. It's coming up this Monday, so we want to know who's showing up, who's swearing as Trump gets sworn in. And will Elon be bringing the creepy new Tesla bot as his date. He's going to be up there on the podium with Mark Zuckerberg and with Jeff Bezos.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

School boys at all the boys lineup, Joanna. Not a moist vagina in all of D.C. dry panties.

[Joanna Coles]

That may not be true, because I'm pretty sure Lauren Sanchez will be up there with him. And my only obsession is what will Lauren wear to the inauguration and will she outdress Melania and Ivanka and Tiffany?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, God. Oh, my. Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep, it's a lot.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It's a lot.

[Joanna Coles]

So in the download, we're going to be talking with Daily Beast Executive Editor Hugh Doherty, who is back to talk about Tulsi Gabbard and her strange upbringing. And, of course, she is Trump's controversial pick for Director of National Intelligence. And we're going to be joined by Julie Grace Brufke, our new hire from Axios, who is a Capitol Hill hustler, a permanent resident in the room where it happens. And she's deeply embedded in Trumpistan. She was in the room for Pete Heg maga's tense Senate confirmation hearings, which I thought lent a little bit to Brett Kavanaugh. We can discuss that. And we're going to break down actually what it was like. And does this give us the MAGA pathway for what the next four years are going to be like? It's really. This week's episode is going to be a crash course at Trump University, just in time for the new administration. And you be guaranteed to be smarter by the end of this episode, not just because you'll know more about these White House characters, but also because you'll be like, these people are in charge of the most influential government in the world.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Really? Them? Yes. As you can see if you're watching this on YouTube, my body position says, I'm just watching the Hindenburg slowly make its way down to the earth. So I'm just gonna sit back in my red, white and blue.

[Joanna Coles]

And you're looking very patriotic. Between the two of us, we're demonstrating a different kind of patriotism. You've got your red glasses on. I've got my red sweater on the.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Daily Beast podcast, brought to you by American Girl Dolls.

[Joanna Coles]

We have a lot to discuss, but we should also say that we are still very much thinking about people in LA who are going through these awful fires, which seem to have picked up in the last couple of days after dying down.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yes. It's so scary. I can't even. It's. Of course, we both know a lot of people who are in Los Angeles with varying degrees of, you know, packed and ready to evacuate to people whose homes have fully burned down. I mean, it runs a gamut. It's such a, such a massive. And it's. I don't. I don't even. It's unfathomable to me at this point. And I can't believe the number of people who are willingly spreading disinformation about it. And.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's heartbreaking. I mean, I have a friend who was evacuated, got an Airbnb by the Time he got to his Airbnb, the price had been upped on the Airbnb and his neighbor called, said, by the way, there are looters in your house. So he had to drive back to his house, whereupon he discovered looters had gone through the place, ransacked it, taken his wife's jewelry, their laptops, all their computing equipment. And so sort of trauma upon trauma and just the paperwork of dealing with insurers for that stuff. Absolutely. In nightmare.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah. My husband's manager has lost his whole home. He can't even reach anyone at an insurance company. It's just months and months and months and years of recovery. And really, I mean, it's an ongoing story, so it's hard, it's difficult to even talk about. It's weird to even talk about anything in the past tense when winds are whipping up today. So I just. Anyway, we're just thinking about it constantly and thinking about ways to help. So I know on my substack I'm about to list out some ways that people can individually reach out to. I really love those kind of like direct action charitable organizations in particular.

[Joanna Coles]

So anyway, yep, on the Beast, we have some resources for people and also to reach out. I've been packing up lightly worn sweaters and sending them to people because it's still cold in the evenings. Then people have got literally no clothes. Although I know big centres have been set up and companies are being generous helping people, but it feels good to be able to actually help people directly.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah. Where to even begin, I don't. I don't know. Meantime, you are going to DC this week. You are going to DC this week.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm going to DC for the parties. But the good news is that when I get there, I will be bright eyed because you and I are drinking this matcha from a cleanse that we've agreed to go on together. I've never done a cleanse in my life and I'm very nervous I won't be able to stick to it.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I've never done a cleanse in my life and I've already probably broken the cleanse. I brought an apple today. I don't think my apple is permitted, but I'm just not sure I can do it. I've never done one before, but I'm happy to go on this journey. It's a learning journey.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and you told me you'd started the day with a big cheesy omelette. Well, I added the cheese, but you said you'd had a big omelet.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

You know what, you were correct to assume that it was a cheesy omelette, but it was goat cheese, which is kind of a different.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, goat's cheese isn't really cheese.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Not really cheese, but it's.

[Joanna Coles]

The cleanse is by Chroma. And I just want to. First of all, I met the founder of IT who started it at one of my women's power retreats. And she was very compelling about it because she started the company, as so many women do, as a last resort because she had a child that had real allergy issues with foods and she wanted nourishing foods for them. So she started making all these broths and things and then her friends were like, oh, I love this. Will you make it for me? Long story short, it's turned into a company and she has lost her home this week, living in LA entirely burned down. So here we are nevertheless, sitting with her packets of Chroma. And there's fuel, there's afternoon, there's lunch, there's boost packets, pouches.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah, whippers.

[Joanna Coles]

I know what it. What is that? I haven't opened that. I got one of those and I don't understand what it is.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It's a little blend. It's like a little hand blender that you. It's a battery powered. Oh, Jesus.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that's.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

That's. Oh my God. It's. Wow. It's really powerful. I just sprayed Matcha all around the room. But it's great. It's like a frother and I think.

[Joanna Coles]

It'S got a very sincere. Is this the message of the. I didn't find one of those bags. It's possible I haven't unpacked it.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

You're very good at unboxing things if you didn't find your special pouch.

[Joanna Coles]

So I want us to say out loud together, okay? We commit to the journey. The pursuit of health and wellness can transform our lives together forever.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Next week we're going to see if we've lost weight, if we feel fabulous, if we're boosted, our energy feel fabulous.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I don't care about the weight part. I just like to feel clear. I like to feel bright eyed and bushy tailed. I love myself. I love myself when I'm bright eyed.

[Joanna Coles]

And bushy tailed and no brain fog.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm very interested to try extra supplements because I'm not a big believer in supplements. I feel like if you have a good diet, you're just being sold to it. And it makes me nervous that actually the supplement industry is completely Unregulated.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Completely unregulated. I really don't take any. If I ever feel like I should take a supplement, I just. I peel an orange and then I eat it.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, that's very good. As long as the orange hasn't been sitting around for 12 days in the supermarket under very bright light.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I mean, it's a Terry's Chocolate Orange. It's not real orange. Joanna.

[Joanna Coles]

Matcha's going down the wrong way. That's my kind of fruit. Terry's Chocolate Orange. Excellent. I think they're doing a Terry's Chocolate Lemon as well, aren't they? What? Terry's There is just been slow to understand what they're sitting on with that chocolate orange. Cause when you hit it on the table and it comes out like that, it's a beautiful thing.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It's a beautiful.

[Joanna Coles]

But we are interesting segue interviewing Don Lemon later.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

We are. Oh, my goodness. I'm gonna ask him if when he cries, he calls his tears lemon drops.

[Joanna Coles]

Interesting. And I'm gonna ask him if he's had a conversation with Terry's about doing a chocolate lemon.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, my God.

[Joanna Coles]

Cause are called the Lemonheads, unlike the cheese heads in Wisconsin.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I'm excited.

[Joanna Coles]

I once wore one of those cheese head things. Very strange. So did I. Oh, you did. You've worn a cheese head.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I've worn a cheese head.

[Joanna Coles]

I think we should do it on the pod. We should do it on the pod. We should wear one. I've forgotten where we are now, except that we are gonna have our beast of the week, Don Lemon, who's gonna be in D.C. so we're gonna talk to him about the inauguration, what he thinks about things, the fact that Michelle isn't going. What's all that about? And of course, he was known for being a CNN anchor for a long time, and he's now got his own show on YouTube live at 5 and hot topics at 10.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah, I'm looking forward to talking to him.

[Joanna Coles]

All right. But up first is our doughty Scottish editor, Hugh Docherty, and Julie Grace Brufke, our new hire in Washington to talk us through Peter Hegseth's confirmation.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Great.

[Joanna Coles]

And another story that we have at the Beast, which is actually pretty exciting, we have been working on for some time, and we are going to tease it here on the podcast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

This is spicy.

[Joanna Coles]

Very spicy. It's very spicy. And it unfortunately sheds some doubt on one of Trump's people.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

What? Don't you dare tell me that you have doubts about his stellar cast of characters.

[Joanna Coles]

It's about Tulsi Gabbard.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

We have so much more to get into. Let's take a quick break, make some money for this podcast. And when we come back, we'll be joined in the download by Hugh Doherty, our doughty Scottish executive editor at the Daily Beast, and Julie Grace Brufke, two DC Experts. Welcome back. We are joined now by the Daily Beast executive editor, Hugh Doherty to get the download on a fascinating story about Tulsi Gabbard, Trump's pick for director of national intelligence, who was a former US Representative for Hawaii and ran for president as a Democrat in 2020 and then left her party. And by Daily Beast Capitol Hill reporter Julie Grace Brufke for her insider download on the confirmation hearing of Haggers, AKA Pete Hegseth, a military veteran and former Fox News host. Of course, he was accused of sexual assault. Of course, he was the perfect portfolio for a Trump defense secretary appointee. HUGH Julie Grace, we've an embarrassment of things to discuss. Julie Grace, can you tell us what's happening in the background on the Hill there where you are right now? And is Pete Hegseth going to get confirmed as defense secretary?

[Hugh Doherty]

So Republican leadership's feeling really good about his odds right now. They feel like he did well in that hearing. Democrats have still been rallying against him and there's a couple of outliers that haven't said they're going to support him yet. So I feel like there's some moderates or some potentially retiring members that might just kind of not care what leadership has to say. That could be a problem for him. But right now, pretty much everyone I talked to said that things are kind of looking good. They're gearing up, probably a markup on everything on Monday and then probably potentially a confirmation vote Monday or Tuesday. So, so it's going to be interesting. But last, last I talked to leadership sources, things were the wind was in his sails to get there.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

So are there is he facing any actual roadblocks now or just a kind of a question mark from those retiring folks?

[Hugh Doherty]

It's kind of a question mark for from the moderates. I mean, we haven't heard from like Susan Collins on where she stands on this, or Lisa Murkowski would be another one to watch. Or John Curtis, the new the new Utah senator has taken over from Mitt Romney, who had some reservations there. But I think Joni Ernst getting on board yesterday, who, who probably was most vocal about reservations initially. There is a big indicator that Trump rolled his kind of pressured a lot of these people to kind of rally behind him and even some of the people that had reservations there. So it's, it's kind of headed in his direction and they dumped a ton of money to kind of pay peer pressure her into, into getting on board with him. So I think she's kind of a good bellwether to watch on where some of the other moderates will lie on that.

[Joanna Coles]

When you say they dumped money, what, what does that mean?

[Hugh Doherty]

There was a ton of money spent in Iowa kind of pressuring her, especially with threats for primaries for her in her next election. So kind of threats from people in Trump world so that they potentially derail her moving forward. So, yeah, I think she, that was definitely kind of a factor in there. But she, she said she's been satisfied with his meetings and relying a questioning. Yesterday she was, I mean, softer than some, some anticipated there, but ultimately kind of came out and said yesterday that she's on board. So.

[Joanna Coles]

And of course, she's got a daughter serving in the military. She served in the military herself. She's the victim of a sexual assault. So she was a sort of holdout. But she spent time with him on her own, I think, before the holidays. So they've had clearly time together and she's obviously been convinced and especially under the threat of being primary digest.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's any way to know if she organically changed her mind or is just kind of acquiescing to the enormous, enormous amount of pressure and threats this is.

[Don Lemon]

Welcome to Trump 2.0. Smash mouth politics.

[Joanna Coles]

Smash mouth politics.

[Don Lemon]

The MAGA caucus or the MAGA supporters smashed their way through that hearing. After the hearing, they said it was a triumph. They hailed Hexith as a hero. And what did he do? Well, he was incredibly aggressive to the Democrats. He spoke the language of maga. He spoke about being saved by God. He didn't express shame or regret. And that's the theme of the next four years. That's how Trump wants people to, in his view, win. And we're going to see, I think, for the next few days as Julie Grace is going to be covering a lot of confirmation hearings. And I doubt that we will see any that are as nakedly confrontational as Pete Hegseth of the Democrats. But it's the theme. Don't concede, don't give ground, be aggressive. And the feeling in MAGA land after that performance was that's how, that's what we want to see.

[Joanna Coles]

This is the Trump school of politics. Julie Grace, what is the feeling like on the Hill are people energized?

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, I think. I mean, Democrats are kind of trying to figure out their next moves. And all of them that I talked to, I talked to Tim Kaine a little bit after the hearing yesterday, and they're like, I feel like his pre. A lot of them are really upset they didn't get to see that FBI report, and that's going to be a big issue. So they're kind of just trying to rally the troops. And I doubt that he gets any Democrat support, but possibly John Fetterman. But I mean, it was kind of interesting to watch Tim Kaine, of all people in that because he's usually so unfiery to be kind of like the most intense in his line of questioning. They're bringing up the. The extramarital affairs and really kind of taking aim at him. And a lot of Republican senators kind of like flipping on that and really taking aim at some of the line of how Democrats handled the questioning there.

[Samantha Bee]

Have admitted that you had sex while you were married to wife two after you just had fathered a child by wife three. You've admitted that. Now, if it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be Secretary of Defense, wouldn't it?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It was a false claim then and a false claim now.

[Samantha Bee]

If it had been a sexual assault, that would be disqualifying to be Secretary of Defense, wouldn't it?

[Hugh Doherty]

So I think that's going to be a big fundraising tool for them on going how they're going to go after Democrats. And it's, I mean, it was kind of interesting to watch Mark Wade Mullen yesterday right after Tim Kaden. He was like, members, the lawmakers show up drunk at work all the time, so this shouldn't be an issue.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I'm drunk right now. I'm doing a podcast.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you can be drunk on Matcha.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I think I am drunk on Matcha. It's actually so funny to me, and I don't know if people feel this way, but it's like watching. I think Marco Rubio is likely gonna pretty much sail through and having covered this world for as. As long as I have, it's so bizarre to me to think of Marco Rubio as the statesman who sails through just like the voice of reason, just by comparison, a literal genius.

[Joanna Coles]

So, Julie Grace, what about the Republicans? I mean, are they euphoric? Is this a moment of high energy for them?

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, I think for MAGA world, they're very excited about all some of these incoming nominees. And I Mean, I think one thing to note just on getting him through, I think Matt Gates dropping out early kind of paved a path where there's only so many nominees that you can take out, which I think also helps Hegset's case. But I mean, I think there's a lot of energy. I mean, especially with inauguration coming up, I feel like especially the really close Trump allies are really ramped up. I mean, in comparison to like Mattis is defense secretary last time around, they're getting a much a cabinet as a whole that's just much more in line with kind of try that Trump world. So it's going to be more politicized.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. It feels much more in line with central casting. And Pete Hegseth was is who you would pick to play defense secretary in a movie about the end of the world.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Great. And on that note. No, I mean, is the, is the Hegseth. Is he, he's not the most contentious nominee at this point. There's other. I mean, which is remarkable, which is a remarkable statement.

[Joanna Coles]

Which brings us on to why Hugh is here this morning. We're going to discuss La Gabard, which is my name for. I don't know why, but it's more fun than Gabbard. Gabbard is a. Actually sounds a bit like a Yorkshire name. E. Gabbard.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah, it's a bit stodgy.

[Joanna Coles]

It sounds like one of those places that you might store coal or logs. Put it in the Gabbard. Think of the bottom of the luxury.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Or like a, like a, like a kind of a claggy pudding.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, maybe. Let's have some Gabbard with that.

[Don Lemon]

Well, on the subject of claggy pudding, Tulsi Gabbard may be the candidate that's really difficult to digest for the Republicans. And there's lots of reasons for that. And one thing I want to highlight is that the Daily Beast has been investigating a very specific part of her background that has very much flown under the radar. And we're going to be dropping a story on her upbringing in a group called the Signs of Identity Foundation.

[Joanna Coles]

The Signs of Identity Foundation.

[Don Lemon]

She, as people probably know, was brought up in Hawaii, but she was actually born in Samoa. And she was born to a couple who were very much part of the Hare Krishna movement, as many boomers were in the 70s. And then they became part of a group called the Science of Identity Foundation. And it's a leader, Chris Butler, who goes by the name Jagad, guru to his followers.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I would do if I was called Chris Butler I'd much rather be called Jagadh Guru. Wouldn't you? Yes, yes.

[Don Lemon]

Chris Butler, if you're choosing your guru name. But he is a figure who really lives as a recluse in Hawaii, but is incredibly controversial and has some incredibly controversial things to say. And we've obtained a recording of him saying some of those things about gay rights. And he was very deeply opposed to any rights for same sex couples and said it in very explicit and offensive terms. And we'll be dropping that story on the Daily Beasts website.

[Joanna Coles]

Are we able to play some of the tape now?

[Don Lemon]

We are.

[Chris Butler]

So then we're stuck in this position where we're faced with having to follow God within our heart or having to follow the law. And this is what's so sad.

[Joanna Coles]

That.

[Chris Butler]

They create this law, but is this not the reason why they're creating that law? Because they are not able to voluntary get people to be converted to their religion of materialism, to voluntarily convincing them that it's right, that it's clean, that it's spiritual or whatever the hell they think it is, that it's normal, because they have no logic in their explanations that it's somehow normal to shove their fists up each other's anuses and thereby are unable to convince me that it's normal or that it's clean or that it's not sinful, that they lick each other anuses or that a man is having sex with a man or a woman with a woman. They must convert us by force.

[Joanna Coles]

Is this the first time we're hearing about this?

[Don Lemon]

Julie Grace will be able to talk to some of this doubts about exactly what went on in Tulsi Gabbard's childhood, her upbringing and why she got into politics. It's the first time we're hearing directly from somebody that we know she has referred to as her spiritual guide. And I think many Democrats and even some Republicans are going to be interested to know exactly is she still part of this group? Something that she has not directly engaged with as a question. And how important is Chris Butler or Jagad Guru to her? So there's going to be a lot to talk about after we've released this story.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, my God.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

This is.

[Don Lemon]

And I'll just give you a tiny preview of some of the things we've been learning about Chris Butler.

[Joanna Coles]

One is, I think you mean Jagadh Guru.

[Don Lemon]

Jagad Guru, yeah. One is that he is deeply, deeply concerned about not coming into contact with infectious diseases and that he would make people quarantine for up to two weeks. Some former followers have told us before they could come into contact with them.

[Joanna Coles]

Just like Putin. Just like Putin. And also he may then be a fan of RFK Jr. Quack health theories.

[Don Lemon]

These are all good questions. And we might learn confirmation hearing. We might learn from Tulsi. We might even learn from RFK Jr. If he's asked about it.

[Joanna Coles]

Julie Grace what is the feeling about Tulsi Gabbard at the moment? We know that she does seem to be the most controversial pick at the moment post Matt Gaetz I mean I.

[Hugh Doherty]

Think she's gonna have the toughest climb out of any of, I mean maybe RFK Jr. He's got some issues too, but I think he probably gets some Dem support. But I mean there's definitely, I mean foreign surveillance. This is a big issue, especially with moderate and defense hawks that are going to be an issue for her. And her comments on Assad saying he wasn't the enemy back in the day is a huge thing that people are worried about. So I think she hasn't really satisfied a lot of their questions. And I've talked to senators after they've come out of these meetings where they've kind of left with more questions where they're not totally getting what they want out of her in these one on one meetings. So I think there's, there's definitely a lot of pressure for them to rally around her. But it's, I think there's still some finessing the Trump world's probably going to have to have to do to get her over the finish line.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

So there's no sense that Republicans are fully embracing her. It's not like they're not putting a full court press on her behalf.

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, I think there's definitely, definitely a press happening and there's a lot of individual meetings going one on one. But I think given the national security aspects of it and I mean Hegset's kind of fire Brandy and Trumpy. But I think people, there are some people that have some real concerns given the nature of the job that could make it tougher for her.

[Don Lemon]

And I think what we're going to see play out in the next few days is Republicans seeing how pressured can they be by maga if you can draw a line between MAGA and Republicans. MAGA has had this real boost from Pete Hegseth. Are they going to use that to push Tulsi Gabbard and RFK Jr. Over the line if there is a problem or are they not going to and we don't know we really don't have any sense yet of quite how invested they are, and maybe we will after the inauguration.

[Joanna Coles]

And Julie Grace, I'd be interested in your point of view on this. We are so used to seeing men get angry in those seas. Brett Kavanaugh is the sort of perfect example. It's very different watching a woman get angry. It sort of triggers a different response, I think, in a crowd. Do you think she will perform well at the Senate hearing?

[Hugh Doherty]

Probably. I think she's articulate. I mean, she helped play Kamala when prepping debate prep for Trump. So I mean, I think she kind of knows how to work a room. She's been in Congress. She, she understands how these things work. And I feel like she's kind of just her general personality is pretty even keeled. So I don't think it's going to be wildly combative, but it's going to be interesting. She's going to get pressed on some pretty hard issues. So it's going to be kind of interesting to see how she navigates it there. But I don't see her getting in shouting matches with members. I mean, I've seen crazier things happen. But I think just from her general.

[Joanna Coles]

Mo, you mentioned Assad earlier in her defense of Syria, and of course she visited Syria, too. How, how much of a stain is that on her history for this job?

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, I think it's one of the biggest issues for people that are kind of critical and trying to think things over and skeptical of her right now. And I think that's going to be probably going to be one of the main themes so that she's going to get pressed on in that hearing. So, yeah, I think that's going to be a major factor.

[Don Lemon]

And I think the other thing that people are going to be pressing her on, especially from the Democratic side, is this willingness to bend intelligence to Trump, which is something that the Democrats believe is going to be the appeal to Trump of officials in that capacity. And I think there's going to be some pretty tough questions on that. And what Tulsi Gabbard's challenge is going to be is going to be convincing people who are skeptical about her as Republicans that she can answer Democrats questions. The Republicans might well be waiting to see how she performs on tv. And as we know, there's only one viewer really in all this world, and it's Trump.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Well, I hope it is a very contentious hearing because I think she is the exact wrong person to take on this role. And, you know, I welcome tough questions from anyone to any of these nominees, as tough as it gets.

[Don Lemon]

Well, Sam, you know where to come for the drama. We will be reporting on it. Julie Grace will be there witnessing it.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yes.

[Don Lemon]

And I don't think there's any better place to find the drama than the Daily Beast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Chris Butler should have been the name of my American boy dollar. No wonder he changed his name.

[Don Lemon]

Jagatguru.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Perfect. Jaguar Guru.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. The good news is she has a spiritual advice that. The bad news is it's Jaguar Guru.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, boy.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, we are moving on, but before we do, we're taking a short break. Julie Grace, thank you so much. That was excellent.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Thank you so much.

[Hugh Doherty]

Thank you.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It was wonderful.

[Joanna Coles]

We're back and we're thrilled to be joined by this week's Beast of the week. Don Lemon, one of the most iconic names in the news world, not just because it sounds like a cartoon villain. Known for his tenure as CNN anchor from 2014 to 2023, including his own primetime show, Don Lemon. Tonight, Lemon cemented himself as a bold voice in news. And whether he's fearlessly critiquing Donald Trump or expressing unfiltered thoughts live on air, he's never one to back down. And now he has not one, but two shows on YouTube. Hot topics at 10 and live at 5. Don Lemon, welcome to the podcast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Hello.

[Samantha Bee]

Hi, guys.

[Joanna Coles]

Hi. Can you hear us?

[Samantha Bee]

I was just on my stream on my channel doing the breaking news on Gaza. Did you guys see that?

[Joanna Coles]

I did see that, yeah. Well, we're gonna talk about you, Don. We're gonna talk about what you think about what's happening in D.C. we're gonna talk about you, what you're doing, how indie media works and should all the themes that you've been talking about.

[Samantha Bee]

Absolutely.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm just, we're interested in what, what you feel the energy is in D.C. what you're thinking about the hearings and what looks like an enormous amount of fun that you're having having gone off on your own as a media entrepreneur.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, Sam, you know about that, don't you? They don't like us. Big mouth, you know, sort of middle or left leaning people. They just get rid of us.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

They just get rid of us. They just sweep us away.

[Hugh Doherty]

It's very easy to find ways to.

[Samantha Bee]

Get rid of us for little things that. For being a big mouth or saying something. Oh, yes, whatever. You know the score.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I do. It's relaxing for them to clear the slate.

[Joanna Coles]

Don Lemon, the highly recognized former CNN anchor and leader of the Lemonheads. Don, I wish I Had a big lemon on my head. To welcome you to the Daily Beast podcast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yes, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you. Hi, Sam. Hi, Jon.

[Joanna Coles]

I've never been.

[Samantha Bee]

I've been called a lot of things, but never a beast and a beast of the week. I kind of like it.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Very nice.

[Joanna Coles]

You. You need a T shirt. We'll send you a T shirt.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Send you a T shirt. Are you in D.C. as we speak?

[Samantha Bee]

I'm in D.C. as we Speak. I got here overnight.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, wow.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm doing a couple of things. I just kind of hear monitoring the situation, but nothing here is normal. I'm kind of trying to ignore that. And I'm here speaking to, quite frankly, the. The National Press Club about independent media.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Really? Yeah. Oh, does that mean. Are you going to any of the inaugural balls or the inaugural wakes that are on the slate, Sam? Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Sam.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

No.

[Samantha Bee]

I will go and be your date if you go. Sam.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I would go to awake, but that's it. That's my. That's my limit. And I would dress in a black shroud. Really? Actually, I will not do that. And I imagine you're going to get out there as fast as you possibly can.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you could have Michelle Obama's seat because she's not going. What do we think about that?

[Samantha Bee]

That I respect her for doing that. I really do. I think that we should stop putting on air airs. I think we should stop this sort of phony civility that folks think that you have to give. Yeah, I think that you should. There's protocol. You have to be civil with people, but it doesn't mean that you have to smile on their face. It doesn't mean that you have to do things that they wouldn't give them. Courtesies that they would not give to you.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I completely agree with this.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah. And let me just say this. I like to follow the lead of women because I think women are always, you know, they're the most evolved of the sexes, but especially black women lately have been really keeping our democracy intact and voting in the right direction. So Michelle Obama, as a black woman, I will follow her lead. And, you know, she told us, when they go low, we go high. We did that. Although I think when they go low, we should go to the crust of the earth right now. But I'll follow her lead.

[Joanna Coles]

You don't think that she should be there to support Barack? Cause surely he's feeling like that. I mean, Trump went after him over the whole birth. I mean, in many ways, Barack has every reason to feel even more strongly than Michelle does. I would have thought that the symbolism of the two of them as a couple reminding us of how they were in the White House is stronger than absence.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I don't know that that symbolism means anything anymore. I actually think all of those norms and niceties are just blown out the window. I think that Michelle Obama has endured so much. Why should she be subjected to this? I totally agree with you, Don. I just totally agree with you.

[Samantha Bee]

Look, we're assuming. Let's keep this in mind. We're assuming that's the reason why. And I think that the obvious reason is usually the reason that she's not going. But. Yeah, I mean, why would she subject herself to that? Why would she. Let's go back to the speech.

[Joanna Coles]

Because she's not going for herself. She's going on behalf of all the people that voted for Democratic Party to that point.

[Samantha Bee]

Joanna, I think there are many people in this country who feel that the Democrats and folks, not just Democrats, but people who believe in democracy, who believe in this country. They are looking for an example to be set, and especially from Democrats who are trying to, at this point, hold our democracy intact. I'm not a Democrat. I'm not a Republican. I'm an independent. And the only party I believe now, and I don't think they're doing such a great job of it, the only party that's trying to keep our democracy intact are Democrats. And I think people want Democrats or people who are not part of the MAGA movement to be stronger about what is important, what is moral, what is right, what is democratic, by pretending that by normalizing this behavior, that's what got us here in the first place. And I think an example needs to be set by rational thinking, patriotic Americans, that we will not normalize and put up with this behavior just for the sake of a performative act. We know. We know. I just. I just.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Sometimes you just have to draw a line. Sometimes you have to draw a line.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm also independent. I agree with you to some point, dawn, but then why is President Obama going?

[Samantha Bee]

Well, he's a president. I think it's fine for him to go.

[Joanna Coles]

She was first lady. The two of them did it together.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I just think it's fine for her to make her own choice. I mean, my God, how badly do you think that Kamala wants to skip that inauguration? What's the over under on her? Just like happening to get norovirus Monday morning. I would. I'd be licking subway polls.

[Samantha Bee]

Look at Karen Pence. Karen Pence is a Republican. Her husband was vice president of the United States. Look her, you know, she's, she decided, I'm gonna go, I'm gonna sit here, but I'm not gonna make niceties. The difference between Karen Pence and Michelle Obama is that Michelle Obama would have had, according to the seating, she would have had to sit next to the man who, that they had been calling a fascist and who has been saying the most vile things about her and her husband for decades. And remember, as I was alluded to earlier, during the Democratic speech, she said that Donald Trump could not stand two educated black people who were smart and who could rise to the level to be able to sit in the White House and lead the country. And I think we have to stand by our principles and our morals. And I would not want to sit next to that person if I were the first lady of the United States. Now that's different for her husband. The rules are not the same. She doesn't have to. People did not elect Michelle Obama. They elected Barack Obama to be president. So I think that she can make her own decision.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Let's face it, she's not going to the inauguration. But they definitely found a bunch of people to take her seat. Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Elon Musk, they're all gonna be sitting beside, behind him with those elected officials all around. I mean, they quite literally bought the best seats in the house.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, who's the, who's the guy that sings the America song?

[Samantha Bee]

I'm proud to be an American. That song. I forgot his name.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It's Glenn Green. It's Glean Green.

[Joanna Coles]

It's going to be very, very clean. And you have to listen to Lee Greenwood. That means that I won't be up on that podium.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

You're in D.C. right now.

[Samantha Bee]

Are you going?

[Joanna Coles]

I'm going to the parties. I actually enjoy talking to people on both sides. I need to understand it more and I want to be down there.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Okay, well, I think you're going to come back with a lot of stories and I want to hear every single one of them. But I wouldn't wish those parties on my worst enemy. Well, maybe I would. Maybe I would wish them on my worst enemy.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm going to a party that's hosted by X, which I'm very excited about. I'm hoping for a sighted of Elon at least with his child balanced on his shoulder. Oh, my God.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Here's a question for you, Don. Yeah, really?

[Samantha Bee]

No, I have a great relationship with that. But anyways.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, he used when you Left cnn, You announced you were doing a show on Twitter. It was going to launch with an interview with him, and then he fired you basically even before the interview went out. What was that whole drama like, Don?

[Samantha Bee]

There was drama, but he didn't fire me. It was. We had a content agreement, a distribution agreement. So I didn't work for. My entire show is independent of the folks at X. They were just providing a platform for me to be able to do the show and just exclusive content just for maybe, I think, 24 or 48 hours. So what? Didn't fire me. But, I mean, that makes a great headline.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Right.

[Samantha Bee]

But look, I am always appreciative of every experience and I wish it had turned out a different way, but it didn't. And so here we are. And I can't say a lot because I'm in litigation with him, active litigation, as you know. You know, it wasn't the most pleasant experience thing that I ever.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah. Do you think that he gets the blue pass, the big all excess pass at the White House? How do you think that plays out?

[Samantha Bee]

Of course he does. Yeah, he does. I mean, there's been a report recently that he's looking for office space in or near the White House and that they're going to set up an office.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought he got a desk in the Eisenhower Building.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, I said in or near the White House.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Samantha Bee]

They've said they found the Eisenhower Building, which is adjacent to the White House. Perhaps that's where he's going to be. I doubt that. It's going to be obviously in the Oval, not the West Wing. Excuse me. But in or near the White House. So Eisenhower building. He will be reportedly.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

How have you decided to cover Trump for the first 100 days? And how have you decided to like to feed yourself so that you can survive the first hundred days? What type of exercise are you doing? Are you treating this like an Olympic event? Because I'm really girding my loins here.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, Sam, the whole thing, the reason I'm here is to tout independent media and to give people insight at the press club. And it's. This is part of the freedom that I had. I don't have to treat this as normal. I think they're, you know, I think folks are kind of tired of the whole, you know, putting on an act. Joanna. And which. And they appreciate that Michelle Obama is not doing it. Yeah, they're tired of, you know, performative patriotism, performative stability. And so I am treating this as for what it is. Look, we have to take it seriously, because the man is the leader of the free world. He was elected. But today, just in covering some of the nominees that I did today and yesterday, these aren't normal times. These aren't normal appointees or normal nominees. And I think people are tired of the. The sort of the folks normalizing this behavior. Just because someone was. Has been elected to the presidency or an elected office, it does not mean that it is a good thing. Some things are objectively bad. And we've gone through periods in history where we have seen really bad leaders who have had a lot of influence, who have been elected. And so I don't have to sit there, which I love, and appease certain groups and pretend like everything is equal. I hate false equivalency.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

It's such an interesting path to get there. Because when you have a really big job and there are a lot of voices in the room, and there are a lot of producers and executives and a lot of voices in your ear, to feel unconstrained is really a gift. Is that what you're conveying in your work now?

[Samantha Bee]

I feel that it's a gift, but also. You're right 100%. But it's also. How do I say this? It's also. It's like a detox that has to happen. It takes a while.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

Because every time I, you know, did my show, I like, I watch, I go back sometimes and I look at the beginning of the Don Lemon show on YouTube and Spotify and iHeart and wherever we. On all streaming platforms. And, you know, sort of the things that I did in the beginning were sort of very similar to what I did in traditional media. Right. Well, if I say something about this side, I gotta say something about that side. You know, you gotta do this, and that's not what this is.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

I like the informality of what you're doing, too. I love the fact you've got the television on in the background, you've got the scripts in your hand. It feels like we see you in your home normally. You've got your photos on the fireplace, and it feels like we've actually got you and Don. I mean, I was just looking through social media. I mean, it looks like you've actually got more viewers now than you had at CNN do.

[Samantha Bee]

That's what I wanted to say. Sam, when you said you've had the big job, I feel like I have the big job now.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

You do? Yeah. Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Look, had I known. I am. Look, I am very fortunate. I'm very lucky that I Did have the big job, as you say, Sam, that qualified for enough time that I could. That I am privileged enough that I don't have to go and look for another contract somewhere. Right. That I can afford to be able to do this independent media thing. Had I known what I know now from the beginning, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a studio. I've got this great fancy studio that's in midtown Manhattan that I never used. You know why? Because my subscribers say, we don't like you. They there. We don't want cable news. We want you sitting in your living room. We want to see a live stream where at the end you do karaoke on a Saturday night with your husband and your three dogs in front of the fireplace. And that's what they want because they feel like they connect to me. And we want to. That our comments are up on the screen and that you read them and you respond to them and you talk to us and you give us a voice. And that's why I started, quite frankly, Joanna, as I told you, when I saw you late last month, I said, the folks want a voice. And in the beginning I said, I feel like I'm doing the same thing that I did at cnn, where I was just talking to the viewer. I started a show called Lemon Live at five in my living room. Every day, Live at five o'clock. It gets the most engagement of anything else, any of the taped interviews, any of the fancy studio shows that I do. And so that's what I'm sticking with.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, I love the interactivity of it and the fact that you shout people out when they, you know, write a comment and you feel that you're talking to the audience. And that does feel like it's going to be the next iteration of media.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I think so, too. And I think it has to be, in a way, because not being beholden to the powers that be is critical. And only if you have the economic power and if you have an audience, it's kind of the next and only move in a free press, really. I think it's like. Like it's essential.

[Joanna Coles]

But. But, Don, do you feel like when you wake up in the morning, do you ever have days when you, I don't want to do it today. And then you have the freedom not to do it. Or do you feel a huge obligation to turn up because you know that people are going to be waiting for you?

[Samantha Bee]

Is it fair to say both? Yeah, you know, it's like, I guess I don't have kids, but or it's like when, you know, I don't want to get up and walk my dogs, but I have to. I don't want to, you know. You know, it's. I don't want to get up in the middle of the night and change the diaper, but I have to. But you love it. So, yeah, like, I woke up this morning and I honestly. And I said, well, what am I gonna do? What's the big news? There's not that much. And then something happens. Or I get in front of my camera here and something happens. I just start talking to the subscribers and they give me ideas, and it energizes me. And because I also do a 10am show that's called Hot Topics. And I'll tell you where I got it from. Wendy Williams, Remember Wendy Williams, Yeah, of course. Sit in the purple chair and just do a sort of. What do you call it? A free. Whatever.

[Joanna Coles]

Sort of. Free association.

[Samantha Bee]

Free association. And just, Just talk about things that are in the zeitgeist. And. And it was just going to be. To do light things that were not so heavy politically. But it just so happens, you know, when you have a Trump presidency, he takes over every aspect. Sports, entertainment, or whatever, he becomes part of it. And so we just start. I started this show at 10am to catch people up, and it's just like sitting in a diner having a cup of coffee. So I do two lives every day.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Wow.

[Samantha Bee]

But I love it and I get energized by it. But yes, some days. Do I not want to work? No. But actually, does it feel like work? No, because I'm doing it right now. I'm in a hotel room.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Right, right.

[Samantha Bee]

Which is a freedom that people in legacy media don't understand and don't get, but they're going to have to pretty, pretty soon be successful and continue on in this business.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

How long before Tucker Carlson gets a job in the.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

In the, in the White House, can we. How, how quickly can we look forward to that?

[Samantha Bee]

You know, I don't know. I don't know if that's actually good for him, because it's. I think it's good for him to be an insider, but yet an outsider. You know what I mean?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Yep, yep, yep, yep.

[Samantha Bee]

But look, he has an influence in the White House without even having a role, an official role, by the way. Remember, Elon Musk's role is not official. It's like a blue ribbon kind of thing. The whole Doge thing is not really a government thing, but it's sort of A blue ribbon thing. But it is. But kind of, you know what I mean?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Imagine that their. Their day one plan is to defund Planned Parenthood and, sorry, public television. Wow. Going after those big whales. Boys make cervical cancer great again. Good job, gentlemen.

[Samantha Bee]

My favorite thing, though, is how it started, before it even got started, with the H1B visa things. And people found out, well, like, guess what? We need immigrants.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, wow.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, wait.

[Samantha Bee]

They just want the right brown people. Not the ones across the border, but the people who come over on airplanes. You know what I'm saying?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, boy. Oh, boy.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Don, I was gonna ask you about. Rashida Jones, who is the head of msnbc, stepped down this week. Rachel Maddow is back on every night, having been literally paid 25 million for one show a week on a Monday. And obviously, someone has woken up at MSNBC and said, we're not paying for that anymore. Let's get her back every night.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Why do you think they let Rachel Maddow just do one night a week when she was their most popular anchor?

[Samantha Bee]

Because she was the most popular anchor.

[Joanna Coles]

But wouldn't you. But isn't she only the most popular anchor because she's on every night?

[Samantha Bee]

Two things. One, I think she's the most popular anchor because she's really good. And I think that she's very talented. And I think that in many ways, cable news, because of all the cutting, because they know the cost of everything and the value of nothing, in many ways that they are putting people who are not necessarily anchors in primetime positions. And there's a difference between being a good reporter and a good anchor. I just think Rachel Maddow is great, and that is why she's there. That's why she's successful. And they realize that the network would not be the same without her. So they said she wants one night a week. Plus, I'll come back when there are big stories and I'll appear more often. You know, if there's a. When there's an election, I'll do whatever. So I'm sure she'll be on tonight with whatever the breaking news is about Gaza and Israel as we are taping this. So that's why she is. They allowed her to do one week, One day a week, five days a week. Is there a lot of pressure? Absolutely. I did it two hours a night. Can you imagine? For seven years or almost eight years. It's tough. There's a lot. It's a pressure. $25 million, though, makes it a lot easier.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. I could feel some pressure for $25 million.

[Samantha Bee]

$25 million. The money is still there for her, although it's dwindling and it's probably not there for the new folks. So that's probably why you are seeing a different type of person in those.

[Joanna Coles]

What's your prediction for the great role of the American anchor? I mean, it just feels like they're, you know, publicly being, we're learning that they're being paid less for the same job. Job. And as more people go off into independent media, it feels like that once central role is much less relevant than it was.

[Samantha Bee]

Look, remember when I think it's. It's akin to radio and television, right? Radio. It's radio. This new thing, the television is coming around and that changed the game. So I think that, you know, there's still going to be older folks and folks who like to get their news from these big screens that are on the wall. Wall. But if you guys have kids or, you know, young people. When was the last time you saw a kid turn on a television?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Oh, they don't even know how. Yeah, they actually don't turn on the.

[Samantha Bee]

The nightly evening news or on a cable news show. They don't. They're scrolling through these on their phone. They're on Tick Tock, which you know, I'm on all the time, which I never thought I would be on. They're on Instagram, they're on. On Facebook, which is a whole nother thing, right? No, they're not on Facebook. They're on other, these other platforms, Blue sky or what have you. They're getting their news from social and they're getting it in clips. And the interesting thing to me is I still get people go, hey, cnn, but I get younger people now go, hey, you're the TikTok guy, you're the YouTube guy, you're the. And for me it is fascinating because as you said, I believe that audience that I have now is bigger than the audience that I had in traditional television.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Will you be live streaming the inauguration on the weirdest and worst MLK day since.

[Samantha Bee]

So, Sam, you have quite smartly hit upon a dilemma that I have right now.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Right.

[Samantha Bee]

Because I've been invited by some of the platforms that carry my program to come to cover it. And they've offered me studio space and to facilitate a way for me to be able to do it. Yeah. Can I just be honest? It's tough to treat this as normal and then to be in a position to be able to cover it it and to see what happened with morning Joe and Joe and Mika, look, so I've been saying, look, this is not normal, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then to go down and cover it as if it's just sort of the, your run of the mill inauguration would be tough. I think my subscribers and my audience would go, well, wait a minute. But also there's a way that you can cover it if I come down or I can come down and just cover mlk, right? Sitting with them with, you know, with the inauguration running behind me from their facility. So right now I'm trying to figure out what I'm going to do with that. If I'm actually going to take Spotify or YouTube or I heart or whomever up on their offer to cover it or if I'm just going to sit in, in my place in New York City and cover it, say this is, you know, because the mainstream guys are going to be going, there's Melania, she's wearing this, there's this person, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is normal. So I don't know. That's, it's a dilemma. I'm not sure. I don't know. I don't know. What do you think?

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I love the idea of just doing MLK Day with the inauguration playing out of the background. I think that's a good, that's nice. And so, you know, I like it with a little sauce.

[Joanna Coles]

So I wonder what MLK would want you to do and I think he would want you to cover the incoming administration. I don't think we can turn away here. And one of the things I am interested in, which I wanted to ask you about because you are down in D.C. but the last time Donald Trump was elected, 2016, there was a huge march, the women's march. There was an enormous amount of resistance to him, none of which we appear to be seeing now. What is, what has changed, Don?

[Samantha Bee]

I think people are tired. I also think that it is in large part because of legacy media. The media, just the media in general. Two things I think that, that we, and I'm guilty of it as well, or I'm a party to it, normalize this behavior by trying to say, okay, well, well, I didn't do that. But folks, let's put election deniers on the air. Let's over index on understanding the maga folks. It's not. Wasn't that hard to understand. We know what they think and I think people felt that they had to do this because they were trying to understand and it wasn't really that hard to understand. So I think it has become normalized because it was our own failure as the media to normalize it. But then also now, if you look at the last election, it is because folks are largely getting their information, young people and from places where there are no editorial standards or parameters, where you can spout off conspiracy theories or you can say vaccines don't help people and you don't. No one says that's wrong, that's a lie. And so I think that twofold and it has to do with the media in both ways. Traditional media and this new digital streaming space where you don't have to tell the truth and rely on. On facts and no one is going to call you on it. And look, also the antitrust of it. All right, the lack of antitrust. Look at pretty soon, if he, if the reports are true, Elon Musk could own two of the biggest social media platforms in the world. TikTok and Twitter or X Mark Zuckerberg owns the biggest social media platforms in the world, world three of them. Facebook, Instagram and Threads.

[Joanna Coles]

And don't forget WhatsApp, Meta and then WhatsApp.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay, so all of that, those, that's a very powerful influence. Remember, with that come comes algorithms that they can program and suppress and amplify whatever they want. And so I think that we have been influenced by all of that in the media and that is why we are where we are now. And people think that this is normal and a lot of folks are just also acquiescing and complying and bending the knee.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm sure that you're going to see up there on the podium that actually the battle going on between Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg is the fight for TikTok. I mean, it would be an extraordinary thing for Amazon to own because of course TikTok shops. It would be an extraordinary thing for Zuckerberg to own and of course, now leave. Nakan is out of the way. There's much more opportunity for mergers or acquisitions. And he's set up to actually onboard a lot of TikTok creators very quickly on reels and Instagram.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Well, you've both filled me with horror.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, well, that was not our goal.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Reminder of what is coming. And it definitely, I feel that people are in disarray. They don't really know. They don't really know what to do in this moment. And I think, well, they can listen.

[Joanna Coles]

To the Daily Beast podcast. They can. And they can listen to hot topics at 10 and live at 5. Don Lemon, thrilled to have you. Thank you for joining us and we will be tracking your progress and I hope you'll come back on and talk to us again.

[Samantha Bee]

I will. Thank you so much. Look, I am am big fans of both of yours. I appreciate your work. Joanna and Sam, thank you for inviting me on and best of luck to you guys.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Thank you independent media.

[Joanna Coles]

Best of luck to all of us. Best of luck to all of us.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Bye bye bye.

[Joanna Coles]

If you have been, thank you for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, please like it, subscribe, comment and share it with everyone you know. So you can argue you about everything we're talking about and go ahead and.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Keep on sending us those emails. Beastpodailybeast.com or drop us a comment on YouTube. We read them all. Joanna, the people want that beautiful T.

[Joanna Coles]

Shirt that you gave Us Weekly. I thought of a way that people could get the T shirt, which is. If you can count the number of times I overuse the word extraordinary, you are welcome to a T shirt. Several people have pointed out on YouTube, both kindly and unkindly, that I do overuse the word extraordinary. So I apologize. I do do it.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

Don't change a thing. Joanna, that's your word. I talk with my hands. You use the word extraordinary an extraordinary amount of time.

[Joanna Coles]

I do. I do. It's. It's quite extraordinary. Anyway, we need to work on that. If you're not a subscriber to the Daily Beast, it's very easy to sign up. Just go to daily beast.com and then if you put in a forward slash membership. Forward slash podcast. Voila.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

As my muse once said, everybody, please be best.

[Joanna Coles]

No, Sam, she didn't say that. She said be beast. She said be beast.

[Julie Grace Brufke]

I misheard her.

[Joanna Coles]

The Daily Beast podcast is produced by Sarah Demonkoft, Svia Baron Reinstein, Jesse Cannon, and Sheamus Calder. Additional writing by Sasha Seinfeld and it's edited by Deanna Chapman and engineered by Cameron Shanken.