Michael (2:55)

Well, well, let's just. Let's just set the stage here and, and go through that. Kimmel had this actually what I found to be a very funny kind of mock, mock hosting, mock roast of the President before the. What was supposed to be the somewhat formal roast at the White House Correspondent's Dinner. It was, well, as I said to me it was hilarious. And, and there was a pivotal line in which he ref. Melania Trump as the expected widow, I believe is how that that was.

Joanna (3:35)

He said she was glowing, I think glowing with expectant widowhood.

Michael (3:41)

Yes. And then this was before the White House dinner where of course there was an incident with someone rushing in with, with arms and I. And we can assume diabolical intentions.

Joanna (3:59)

So.

Michael (3:59)

And at that point after that, Melania first responded to say that Kimmel was the worst person in the world and that he should be fired by abc. And then the President responded, then everyone in the White House responded and tried to make this an issue. And they have found before they believe that Kimmel is at least on the MAGA side, that Kimmel is a hot button that they just have to press and they get support. Meanwhile, I'm having discussions with people I know in the White House and there is a different side, a very different side. And it's a side that is very concerning for almost everybody in the White House. At least let's put this on the political side of the White House, which is that Melania Trump, who has basically been for the last 10 years regarded as a general plus, not a huge plus, but a basic plus. I mean, she kept out of the news. She looks good actually in the White House. They kind of joke that she gets a sort of promote because the country recognizes how difficult it would be to be married to Donald Trump.

Joanna (5:23)

Right. That's interesting. That's very interesting. She gets a sympathy.

Michael (5:28)

They have a sense of humor sometimes in the White House, but they now feel that she has become a huge liability. And they kind of trace this and they connected first to Epstein and that I'm now going back a number of months and I guess I am somewhat involved with this and in connecting her to Epstein, which is why she threatened to sue me, why I am suing her. And we can get into that again, of course. But then that proceeded from there to the Melania the movie, which in Melania world was supposed to be her coming out and her celebration. But in the White House, they feel that this has really engendered Quite a bit of blowback. Number one, because the movie is ridiculous. Number two, because, because it's just another example of Trump family grift that she was paid so much money from, from Amazon and for what? For being the first lady, really a bribe. And then to top that off, was her, was her inexplicable news conference, if we want to call it a news conference of a couple of weeks ago in which she managed to squarely put herself into the Epstein story. So everybody in, within the White House, it's like, oh my God, the Melania situation is a real problem. And it has raised all kinds of questions about their marriage, about actually how she came to this country, about the nature of her relationship with Trump and with this guy, Paulo Zampoli. And that, of course, has now come out in the last couple of weeks. So Melania is seen as a problem. And the Kimmel response was actually an effort to gain some sympathy. And, but even now, what is, what are we 24 hours out after that? Maybe somewhat, somewhat more in the White House. And this is conversations that I actually had this morning. There is now the feeling that that has, that, that has kind of screwed up and not. And rather than engender sympathy, it's just drawn the lines, drawn more attention to her, more attention to their peculiar marriage, or maybe not quite marriage at all. And again, the Melania of it all is under now is the. Has now become a matter of serious concern in the White House.

Joanna (8:33)

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Michael (10:34)

Is that, did you say cosmic level sex or Cosmo as in your former magazine?

Joanna (10:40)

Well, I was meaning. I was actually meaning Cosmo level sex in my former job as the editor of Cosmo. I would like to remind people that I was also the New York bureau chief of the Guardian and the London Times. So I've had a news career in terms of I haven't just edited Cosmo, which was a great women's empowerment magazine, actually.

Michael (11:02)

And let me remind, remind everyone that I was responsible for hiring Joanna at New York magazine.

Joanna (11:10)

You were. To which I am extremely grateful still, because I was. I definitely didn't want to go back to the UK And I'm very glad that I made the leap into the American market anyway. Much more exciting, the idea that Melania is somehow now a liability. And she's gone from being an elegant, essentially silent doll who turns up when she needs to and barely then, frankly. But she's go from being as you. You used the word about her. And I've always thought it is the best word, unknowable, to somehow letting the light in. And it's not great because as you say, people at the White House are saying, well, she's making it obvious that something is not right here. This is not, as usual, first marriages. And it's asking more questions. And also, Trump feels sort of beholden to respond to her. So two weeks ago, when she made the very strange Epstein statement, he was like, well, I'm not sure I would have done it. I didn't know about it, backing away from it. And then here he came in and piled on top of Kimmel with her, saying, yes, we should ban his show. But we've been down this route before. Kimmel was suspended, then he was put back. We have new management now. At we have a new CEO in Josh d' Amaro instead of Bob Iger at Disney. But. But I can't believe that they want to go down this road again of suspending Kimmel or doing anything actually, other than letting it play out.

Michael (12:43)

Let's look at this as Melania as part of a global problem with the Trump White House, that everything is unpopular, that Donald Trump is unpopular. ICE is unpopular, the war is unpopular, the economy is unpopular. He's at the lowest level he can. He has been in his approval ratings. They are looking. And I just noticed the New York Times just dropped the story that. The House. It's a foregone conclusion that the Republicans will lose the House in November. And now the Senate is very much in play. So everything is going wrong. And when that tends to happen in a White House and in politics, it takes everything with them. So Melania is just, to some extent, I think she's just collateral damage. You look at everything here and you begin to say what's going on? And Melania certainly lets you ask that question.

Joanna (13:56)

Yeah. And the one thing that the war had done for Donald Trump was to draw attention away from Epstein. Epstein, Epstein. And what did she do? She drew it right back to it. And also the way she suggested that Congress talk to the victims, investigate the victims, suggested that she knew there was something at the center of it. And the way she separated herself from her husband implied that. Well, certainly implied directly that she wanted. She wanted nothing to do with him in this Epstein battle. I mean, it's really an incredible development.

Michael (14:39)

I said to the person I was speaking to this morning in the White House, I said, so what you're saying is that she's a wild card or she's become a wild card. And this person said, well, I didn't say it, but you said it. So I think we can assume. Yes.

Joanna (15:03)

It's also slightly thrown into relief somewhat by Charles and Camilla being in town, too, Obviously, King Charles III's visit with Camilla, because whatever else they do or don't have in common with Donald and Melania, they do have a love story, as far as we know. I mean, of course, you never quite know looking into someone else's relationship. And the Roya royals certainly have had their own. Their own methodology, they have their own sets of marriages. But. But Camilla and Charles is genuinely a long relationship that appears to be a real relationship, which doesn't look quite like that with Donald and Melania. And of course, I think Donald Trump probably had a phase where he looked at Charles when he was Prince Charles and thought, how did you manage to pull Diana?

Michael (16:02)

Yes, I have some background on this because, because he and Trump and Epstein together had this contest about who could, who could sleep with. With, with Princess then, then Princess Diana first. And this, this went on for some time and I think they each made, made quite an effort in this direction. I do not think that either of them won that competition.

Joanna (16:33)

But

Michael (16:35)

the ancillary story on that is, and this still goes on with Trump of asking people, how could Charles have married someone so ugly as Camilla? And, you know, and in the comparison to Diana. So these, this is a, that's a relationship which is the mirror opposite, I would say, of the Melania and Donald Trump relationship. But he goes on and I think it's worth saying because again, it goes directly to Trump's inside his head and the nature of his character to carp on and on and on. And I know a dozen people who he's had this conversation with because he's obsessed with the British royal family about Charles marrying Camilla.

Joanna (17:33)

So Charles is lending his prestige to Donald Trump, obviously, I think with a much longer goal in mind, which is, I'm sure he sees Donald Trump, frankly, is a blip on the horizon of the special relationship as the Brits in particular think of it. How is it going so far?

Michael (17:56)

Well, I would change that a bit. It's the British government that's lending Charles prestige or putting his prestige to use here.

Joanna (18:09)

Okay.

Michael (18:10)

Yeah. I'm not sure that if Charles had had the, the, the choice and largely in these matters, he doesn't necessarily, as some say, but not really a choice, I would guess that he might not have done this trip.

Joanna (18:26)

I would be a fly on the wall to hear Charles and Camilla discussing Donald Trump because you know that King Charles is probably saying, oh, he's such a ghastly man. He's just ghastly. I can't believe we have to hang out with him. I actually can't do his accent very well. Our mutual friend, the author Philip Kerr, was by far the best, the best imitator of King Charles and his series is he's got the Berlin noir series coming up on Apple TV shortly. But Charles always holds

Michael (19:03)

who has died. I just. We should.

Joanna (19:06)

Yeah. The late author Philip Kerber had a notoriously good imitation of King Charles that people used, or Prince Charles as he was then, that people used to plead him to do. But Charles, as you know, clings onto the fourth finger of his right hand and you just know that he thinks everything about Donald Trump is vulgar and ghastly. And you just know the word he's using is ghastly. It's just ghastly. Ghastly. And Camilla is going, oh, darling, how awful that we have to spend time with him. How awful, darling, I've got nothing to say to Melania. Nothing at all. Do you all think they even talk to each other? I'd love to be a fly on that wall. I wonder where they're sleeping. Where are they sleeping?

Michael (19:52)

Oh, they're at Blair House.

Joanna (19:54)

Oh, they're. Of course they're at Blair House.

Michael (19:56)

And it appears that they rejected the invitation to stay at the White House. So in Blair House, if you know, is the sort of formal guest residence of the White House. It's directly across the street.

Joanna (20:10)

It's where the President spends the night before he assumes the presidency. Right. It's the President Elect spends the last, his last night as a, as a citizen at Blair House.

Michael (20:20)

I believe I, I believe you are correct. And I believe that Trump, when he did that in 2016 or 20, that would be 2017, he had, he had many complaints.

Joanna (20:36)

Oh, of course he would have many. That it wasn't like a Trump.

Michael (20:39)

Complaints about the heat, complaints about the beds. Yes. At any rate. But I, I did, I was, I got the lowdown on a conversation that, that, that Trump had the other day with someone, a friend of his in New York. There's, there's, at any given time, there seems to be a constellation of, from half a dozen to a dozen people who Trump speaks to regularly, and several of them who I know, and they can't resist repeating these conversations. But this was a conversation about the royal visit, and it was with Trump saying, I call him Charlie, or sometimes I just call him King. Come here, King. And then he said, charlie, he's very serious, but he likes me. He told me if I wanted to be king, I look the part. Who is this guy? I mean, Donald Trump, it's just this

Joanna (21:48)

like, you know, that Charles going, oh, I think if you wanted to be king, you'll really look the part, because that's his job. He's very sophisticated and understanding who people are, how he can make them feel at ease. The Royal Family is extremely good at that. He's had 74 years in training for this job. And I suspect that Donald Trump will have no idea what Charles is actually thinking as he talks to him. And frankly, the thing that the Royal Family really does, I guess, almost without knowing it, it's just being. They're patronizing to everybody. He will be so patronizing to Trump, but hopefully it goes over Trump's head and Trump won't understand and think that they're being nice to him. It's the one thing British people know how to do, is to be fantastically patronizing and passive aggressive without anybody understanding it. It's like when British people say to Americans, oh, you must come for supper, you must come for supper. We'd love to introduce you to our friends. And what they're really saying is, you will never come for supper. Our friends would hate you. You will never darken our door. It's a weird thing that we do. It's a strange code, which is why I like living in America. But I'm very curious to know how it goes with Charles and Trump. And also it's a four day visit.

Michael (23:05)

It's actually why I like the UK because I actually show up for dinner.

Joanna (23:11)

Well, I think people would actually like to have you for dinner because you bring great insider knowledge. But imagine four days together. Four days together. This is very long. This is very long. Charles will be exhausted by the end of it because he's got to pretend the whole time that he loves being with Trump. Now we're recording this, we should say on the Tuesday morning before his speech

Michael (23:34)

to Congress, if he pulls this off, I mean, if there is even a week, a few weeks of Trump not, not raging at Starmer, then I think it's, I think that Charles will get the historical credit here.

Joanna (23:54)

I wondered, though, if that's possible because what Trump is good at doing is driving a wedge between people and Keir Starmer is not looking comfortable in his seat right now, as we know. There's all sorts of shenanigans around. Why Peter Mandelson was given the job of ambassador to Washington when the birthday book came out and his letter to Jeffrey Epstein in it saying your best pal and being incredibly effusive to Jeffrey Epstein in a way that Mandelson had really played down. Came out, he was fired, he was fired from the job. And now it turns out that he was, according to the Epstein files, giving, giving Jeffrey Epstein all sorts of information that as a government minister he really probably shouldn't have been, been giving him, not least news of euro bailouts.

Michael (24:48)

But I think, I think Starmer's top of mind issue right now is, is Donald Trump threatening to, threatening to cut off the uk threatening to go to war, it seems, over the Falkland Islands? That would be a, a comic development. Maybe, maybe we are. Maybe Donald Trump is going to take over the Falkland Islands.

Joanna (25:17)

Well, I don't Think the Falkland Islanders would love that. And Donald Trump has probably got enough going on in the Middle East. But I think also it's really about the future of NATO. Right. That what I think Charles is tasked with doing is trying to ensure the future of NATO. And he may not be able to ensure the future of Starmer. Starmer's got his own domestic issues going on. The local elections on May 7th.

Michael (25:46)

That Charles job is to save the free world. Well, that may be. And that would be a place in history.

Joanna (25:53)

Well, it might turn out to be a really useful thing for him to be able to do. I think that probably the conversation here is about. Is about NATO. Yes, I do. And the value of it, which Donald Trump feels the European countries don't appreciate enough and don't pay enough for, really. So I also wonder how does he. Because Donald Trump, we know, is very competitive. How does he top the dinner that Charles gave him at Windsor Castle when they brought in, you know, the head of Apple, then Tim Cook, Marc Benioff from Salesforce, when he had his whole, you know, he really brought the kings of the tech industry to Windsor Castle. And it was an incredible evening. I mean, nothing is more beautiful than Windsor Castle lit up and beautifully laid out for the state dinner and the incredible care that goes into it. And I'm not saying that state dinners at the White House aren't also amazing, but they don't have the grandeur and they're not supposed to have the grandeur that the royal family has.

Michael (27:09)

No. Well, and also, remember, this is Donald Trump. I mean, I don't think that he, I mean, he is not going to want to make this dinner about the king as that dinner was made about him. He's going to want to make this dinner about himself, obviously. So, you know, I mean, I don't know. It's going to be, you know, what the dinner is going to be. It's going to be a dinner and it's going to be Donald Trump spending, I would say, certainly I would say this Trump speech, I mean, a speech at a dinner, remarks at a dinner like this should be 10 minutes. They will be 45 minutes for Donald Trump and then Charles will speak for 10 minutes.

Joanna (27:58)

I wonder if Camilla and Charles assume that Blair House is bugged and that what they can't do when they get back to the bedroom and they want to fall about laughing and recount all the awkward moments and all the gaucheries, which I'm sure they'll spot, which is not to say that the Americans don't do these things well. But again, compared to, you know, hundreds of years of the Royal family doing this stuff, whether or not they're just like, shh, shh, don't say anything. Let's assume we're bugged. You can only have this conversation when we get back home.

Michael (28:33)

Yeah. And he will say, and he will. And in his remarks, he will complain, Donald Trump will complain that this would have been a much better dinner if they had had a ballroom. Of course, if they had only had a ballroom in which to do it, which is, again, this other thing, too. And this was in my conversation with this morning about Melania, there was a little side note that this ballroom obsession of his, and it has become an obsession, is also playing terribly, and everyone is concerned about that. Won't he please shut up about the ballroom?

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Joanna (29:49)

Wow. So the other thing I'm really curious about is as we go inside Trump's head three times a week, this is the third time there has been a serious assassination attempt against him. How is that playing in his head? Michael, you've written four books about the guy. No one has spent more time, I think, thinking about the guy. How do we think this is sort of playing in his head?

Michael (30:20)

Well, remember with Trump is the questions are not. They're not emotional questions here. He's not a person who's capable. I don't think he's a person who feels much of anything except is it to his advantage or not to his advantage? And he has come to see assassination attempts as weirdly to his advantage. Now, I think he would probably see this differently if, in fact, he was assassinated, so to speak. But I think in this thing, this then becomes part of what Donald Trump stands for. He stands for conflict. He stands for. He stands for chaos, really. And chaos, which he will tell you and the people around you will always tell you, chaos is his friend. That's one of the lines I have heard again and again and again and again. So they will. They will have come out of this, this White House correspondence dinner. And it's interesting, by the way, that we don't know what his speech at the White House Correspondents dinner would have been. And it's almost impossible to imagine. I mean, he does not have the deft touch that kind of evening and that kind of platform requires. So what would that have been? That would have been, I assume, a truculent, you know, just a truculent performance. But he didn't have to give it. He was saved. He was saved from him. He was saved in this instance from himself by this, by, by the chaos that ensued after this person stormed the, the dinner.

Joanna (32:22)

Well, we got some of his truculence on Sunday night when he did an interview with Nora O' Donnell on 60 Minutes and she asked him about the would be assassin. And then she read, which I thought was an interesting decision to read the would be assassins manifesto, because clearly this is. These are the ramblings of a mentally ill person.

Michael (32:47)

Yeah, I don't know how they could have done that. I mean, there's only. I mean, I think we can go after 60 minutes on the same, on the same level that we can go after Donald Trump. It was ridiculous that they did this. It was. And Donald Trump was actually absolutely, absolutely right. I mean, 60 minutes. And I'm sure Trump did say will. Will say is a. Yeah, I know what's. What. He, there's some phrase he applies to 60 Minutes to dismiss it out of hand. Although he goes on it. He's quite pleased to go on it. But that I think that they deserve to be. I was really stopped in my tracks by this.

Joanna (33:35)

They read the manifesto of the would be assassin, clearly someone who's mentally ill. I thought it was a very strange decision that they decided to do that because it gives it an enormous credence.

Michael (33:47)

Well, also then they asked him to respond to it as though this were a serious piece of something or other instead of the ravings of a lunatic.

Joanna (33:57)

Right. So he attacks Nora o' Donnell and calls her graceless and just says, this is ridiculous, you know, which we both agree actually was a perfectly reasonable response. But then, of course, he finishes the interview because he loves the attention and he wants to be the star of 60 Minutes.

Michael (34:17)

No, absolutely. But I think that 60 Minutes is as long as. If Trump is calling for Kimmel's firing and cancellation, we should call for the. Let's call for the cancellation of 60 Minutes.

Joanna (34:32)

Do you think that the new CEO, Josh D' Amaro of ABC, takes this seriously? How should he respond to It.

Michael (34:44)

Well, he should not respond to it. I mean, if he does respond to it, then he should lose his job. And again, in this conversation this morning with White House people, they see this Kimmel thing as also something that is backfiring, that backfired the first time, and now it will backfire again. And there's. I mean, the interpretation within the White House is that this plays with a very particular maga. It's a. This is a magicide thing. And everybody else in the world says, says, you know, you know, suck it up, man. You're the President of the United States. You know, anybody can say anything about you. Anybody should be able to say anything about you. Man up. And of course, he looks again and again and again like a crybaby and like someone who would dismantle the Constitution at first opportunity.

Joanna (35:57)

So, I mean, it's astonishing how fast the news cycle moves. And of course, as you say, chaos is his friend. When we were together last, we were talking about the Strait of Hormuz and the crisis in Iran. Where are we on that now? Has this actually been a breather?

Michael (36:20)

Remember the war? Remember the war? Yes.

Joanna (36:23)

Has this. This has been a breather from the war. Does that play well for Trump or. It doesn't play well for Trump?

Michael (36:31)

Well, I think everybody, everything. We're at a point now where literally everything plays badly. Nothing. He can't catch a break. And he's been starting to say that around the. Around the White House and. But, you know, the war is. Is a. It could not be going worse. So, yeah, maybe relatively is, you know, Melania Kimmel. Yeah, I guess it's the king. I guess anything to take. To take everyone's attention off of the war of his, of the impossibility of extracting the United States and America and himself from this war. Yeah, I guess that's good. But the problem of not being able to extract yourself is it will still be there. It will come back. It will come back today, tomorrow. He can't get away from it. And the Iranians certainly are not helping him out there.

Joanna (37:42)

Right. And he's still got to figure out how to handle Hormuz, through which 20% of the world's energy flows or doesn't flow. I can't help thinking of all those tankers. Yeah. All those tankers, those poor crews stuck waiting to deliver their fare, and whether or not Iran runs out of places to store the oil that they have and how that works.

Michael (38:18)

Yeah. No, and I think we have to continue. We should see this and focus on this. That we have a six month arc from here to the midterms. So there are six months in which to get out of, solve this problem. There are six months in which oil prices have to recover. There is six months in which it, if we get out of there and it's still in, it looks like Iran has accomplished its goals or maintained its, its, its. The goals that it set out, which is to say not to give in, not to give an inch in terms of the, of its nuclear capabilities. Then, you know, Donald Trump was going to go into the midterms. The Republicans are going to go into the midterms with this hanging around their neck.

Joanna (39:21)

Yeah. So just going back to Melania for a second, I wonder, I mean, she says that Kimmel's comment about her exuding the glow of an expectant widow was almost incitement to violence against Donald Trump. Kimmel says that he was saying it because he was pointing out the age difference. We have been saying that Melania is developing her own brand and I wonder if the reason she felt as sensitive to it as she did was because she is developing her own brand. She knows that she's looking to a post Donald Trump future, which may be, you know, once he goes into his lame duck period. And she can continue monetizing the First Lady's role either by issuing Chachka's or by issuing a capsule collection inspired by her travels as first lady. But I wonder if that's why she felt so sensitive to it, because he actually pointed out something that is actually going on.

Michael (40:32)

Well, I'm not sure. I mean, and I don't really know the details on this, but I think that this was a concerted effort by the White House or some people in the White House to claw back some of her standing, her positive standing by attacking Kimmel, who they believe is unpopular, which I think that they misread, that he's unpopular among the MAGA crowd. Everybody else is either, I think has little opinion or finds him actually quite funny. But, and, and I think that that was pro, again, a mis, misreading. But I think it also, it also is against the backdrop of her clearly trying to develop her own brand and her own business and to monetize for herself, which is not at all popular. Quite the opposite. It's, it's, it's seen as another part of the, part of the grift here.

Joanna (41:37)

Well, it also draws attention to where is Baron and where does she live?

Michael (41:45)

Yeah, I mean, it draws attention to the marriage. This is the thing you don't want to draw attention to when you have a marriage that is largely a, a sham marriage, which I think, I think, I think is a line that they, in, in their threat to sue me, I think they referenced at some other occasion in which I refer to their, to their marriage as a sham marriage. So let's, let's, let's re up the situation here. I think that there is a lot of, there's a lot of feeling, a lot of recognition. Let's say that again, this is not a marriage. This is not a middle class marriage.

Joanna (42:33)

The middle classes. The middle classes, Michael.

Michael (42:37)

Well, from which we spring, we will

Joanna (42:40)

keep a very close eye on the king. I mean, as I said earlier, oh, to be a fly on the wall of those conversations because, you know, they must just must get back to their room and they must feel exhausted at having had to smile and grin and pretend they were having a good time. And also, you know that Donald Trump is going to issue some truth social which they'll wake up to the next morning and have to spring into action. And the Epstein victims are following them. What we saw again was the projecting of huge images of Donald Trump with his arm around Jeffrey Epstein outside the Washington Hilton. Before, of course, the would be assassin stopped proceedings. But again, the group that managed to project a huge, I think 200 foot image of you on the side of Windsor Castle are back, I think.

Michael (43:40)

Yeah, I was in this projection, too. I understand.

Joanna (43:42)

Well, I think there was an email to you that you had written to Jeffrey Epstein saying, does Donald Trump know about the girls? And Epstein had written back in the email that was projected to you. Of course he knows about the girls.

Michael (43:58)

And I think that, I think there was that. Trump is the dog that didn't bark.

Joanna (44:04)

Trump is the dog that didn't bark. Oh, goodness me. Well, the plot thickens, Michael. The plot thickens. Just as you think, oh, well, we'll be talking about the war or we'll be talking about Pete Hegseth or we'll be talking about will Kash Patel get fired? Tonight, something new. Something new happens. So Kash Patel is living on borrowed time. He's, as we know, launched a $250 million libel suit against the Atlantic. And since he's done that, more people have come out from the FBI to corroborate the Atlantic story that he's allegedly frequently drunk on duty. He denies it. Of course he does. And then it turns out two more things have come out of public drunkenness in his past, one of which was a citation for public urination. So he's not what one would think of as an ideal public servant.

Michael (45:03)

Public urination.

Joanna (45:05)

Public urination. We'll be back on Thursday with another episode of Inside Trump's Head. And maybe the king will be inside Trump's head. Maybe the king will have. Have used British Jiu Jitsu, British class, upper class, Royal Jiu Jitsu to get inside Trump's head. I wonder if Charles will give him ideas for the ballroom.

Michael (45:27)

Well, that is what, what Charles is going to hear. I mean, he doesn't. I mean, Charles will exchange few words with Donald Trump. Donald Trump will exchange many words with King Charles and many of those words will be about the ballroom. I mean, he's, this is what happens with Trump. He becomes fixated on this ballroom. Ballroom, Ballroom. People in the White House, they make fun of this ballroom. Maybe we'll talk about the ballroom.

Joanna (46:00)

Well, they are both fans of classical architecture. And you'll remember that when there were plans to draw an addition to the much loved National Gallery in Trafalgar Square, Charles got rid of the plans by describing it as a monstrous carbon on the side of an old friend. On the face of an old friend, I think his description was. So they can bond over that. I'm sure Donald Trump will show King Charles the plans for the ballroom and, and the king will have to, will have to figure out something diplomatic to say about it.

Michael (46:40)

Yeah, I mean, this ballroom is not a carbuncle on the face of an old friend, although the White House would seem like an old friend. But it needs some larger. It's an albatross on the face of an old friend. It's a cancer.

Joanna (46:56)

It's a cancer. It's a cancer. On the White House. On the People's House. Yeah. I wonder if he'll also drive him to where he's planning to have an arch, the arch, you know, that blocks the view to the Arlington Cemetery, the Trump Arch. Cause obviously King Charles has got, you know, several arch. Well, there's two big arches in London. There's marble arch and there is smaller arch at the shop of Hyde Park. But they're probably going to talk about the ballroom a lot, aren't they? And the arch and architecture. I think so. And whether or not Donald Trump talks to plants, which we know King Charles does, I don't think Donald Trump talks to plants.

Michael (47:45)

The challenge for Charles is going to have to be because, I mean, what, what Trump is doing is he's going to, he's going to put words into Charles's mouth. So there may not be any challenge here because this is going to happen anyway. So it's going to be. Charles thinks we should have a. We should build the ballroom. And it doesn't matter what Charles says. That is going to be something that.

Joanna (48:11)

The king likes my ballroom. The king likes my ballroom. The king loves my ballroom. The king wants my ballroom. Yeah.

Michael (48:20)

So the king is going to have. And that will be. The king will go. And that will do. The interpretation will be the be. The king loves my ballroom.

Joanna (48:31)

I wonder if King Charles will say something like, oh, it's jolly big or it's rather scale. I, I'm always, you know, I rather prefer slightly smaller scale. It's got to feel in keeping with the existing building. I wonder if he will try and hint anything like that or if he will just nod because he knows the fate of NATO is in his sausagey fingers.

Michael (48:59)

Are they sausagey?

Joanna (49:00)

Well, he's always been described as having sausage like fingers that are somewhat swollen and he's referred to them himself. And of course, Donald Humphrey. Trump. Donald Trump. Donald Trump has notoriously little hands. Which spy used to make so much fun of the short fingered vulgarian and the sausage fingered monarch.

Michael (49:27)

I shut the hand of the. Of. Of the. Then Prince Charles and I. I didn't. Was it perfectly, perfectly manly handshake.

Joanna (49:42)

Well, maybe Donald Trump will do his double thing. Because with the royals, you're not supposed to shake their hands. You're supposed to put your hand out and they're supposed to squeeze it and then move on. When you meet the royals, you're given all these instructions. You put your hand up, they come forward, they give it a light squeeze and move on.

Michael (49:59)

I was given no instructions.

Joanna (50:01)

Okay, well it sounds like you should

Michael (50:03)

have been given instructions, you see, because we were both the GQ man of the Year.

Joanna (50:09)

You were both the GQ man of the Year. That's hilarious.

Michael (50:12)

Yes.

Joanna (50:12)

The same year. You mean you were co head the same year?

Michael (50:15)

Yes, there were, there were. Actually, it turns out that there are GQ man man of the Year in all kinds of disciplines, interests and walks of life. There are many GQ Men of the Year.

Joanna (50:30)

Okay, and you were what, Disruptor of the Year? Or you were Contrarian of the Year? Would have been too soon for you to be podcaster.

Michael (50:38)

Yep, I was the Writer of the Year.

Joanna (50:40)

You were Writer of the Year. And what was he? Was he Prince of the Year? Was he Royal of the Year?

Michael (50:46)

Yeah, I am Playboy of the Year. Yes, yes, no, I have, but I recall Ringo's Starr was Philanthropist of the Year.

Joanna (50:59)

Well, there you go. And perhaps Charles was Environmentalist of the Year. Not something he wants to talk about with Donald Trump since he's pulled America out of the Paris climate agreement.

Michael (51:12)

Yeah, no, there was. And actually, in this, there was. Russell Brand was Something of the Year, a man who was recently back in the news as a alleged Rapist of the Year and as an alleged Christian of the Year. Yes,

Joanna (51:28)

those lists do not age well. Apart from Writer of the Year, of course. Writer of the Year has aged very well. All right, Michael, we'll be back on Thursday to find out how far the king has got inside Trump's head and whether or not the trip was a success or not. But I suspect that King Charles will be extremely diplomatic on the trip, and it's.

Michael (51:57)

It's a shame that royals don't write memoirs, because it would be. It would be really nice to hear his version of this.

Joanna (52:05)

Yeah, it really would. It really would. Well, we'll see each other on Thursday. Please don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast, our podcast. You can subscribe to the website, too. Some people don't realize that we have a website, but we do, where we keep you up to date, minute by minute, with everything that's going on. So the good news is we have so many Bee Beasts tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.