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- [00:00]
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Hannah Berner
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Paige Desorbo
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Hannah Berner
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Paige Desorbo
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Hannah Berner
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Paige Desorbo
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Hannah Berner
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Paige Desorbo
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Michael Wolff
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Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
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Hannah Berner
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Hannah Berner
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- [02:18]
Michael Wolff
So I, I said wait, the Epstein Ballroom? That's what you're calling it? And, and he was kind of sheepish at that moment. But, but then he said well, you know, it had, it has come up more than a few times.
- [02:42]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Michael, Joanna, so much to discuss. Not least Prince Andrew, which I know we are going to come on and discuss. So much for our political improvisation today.
- [02:57]
Michael Wolff
But I, I have a good one. I can't even hold my tong. So I don't mean to talk over you because now I talk over you rather than you talk over me, but.
- [03:05]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Go on, go on.
- [03:07]
Michael Wolff
So I had this conversation just the other day, day before yesterday, so with somebody, a White House circle person, a person in the middle of all of this. And we were just talking. This is a person I've gotten to know over quite a long period of time. So we're quite friendly and it was just catch, catching up and suddenly this, this person just sort of going over what is, what's, what's happening in his world just to say Trump, Trump world. And he referred to something called the Epstein Ballroom. The Epstein without prompting for me. So I, I said wait, the Epstein Ballroom? That's what you're calling it. And, and he was kind of sheepish at that moment. But, but then he said, well, you know, has come up more than a few times. So within the White House there is, I mean I think that there are two, two points about this that the ballroom itself is regarded as bordering on preposterous. And, and this awareness that Epstein is everywhere in, in, in, in Trump world and that in fact everything is a distraction from, from Epstein. So, and, and maybe a third thing which I think it's important to point out, which I think that people don't quite understand is that there are a lot of people around Trump who have a level of self awareness, irony that they're not walking, they are not Stephen Miller. They are not walking into this blind. Now of course they are not walking out of this, which is I think a key point. But nevertheless they are there. And I have found this across writing four books about, about, about Trump that there is a kind of captive world around him that is kind of clear eyed.
- [05:33]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And are they clear eyed on what happens next with the pile of rubble that used to be the East Wing?
- [05:40]
Michael Wolff
Well, it will be that, you know, I mean I think it will be officially the Trump Ballroom, but unofficially, Morgan Lee, the Epstein Ballroom.
- [05:53]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, the claw of Jeffrey Epstein has come Back again this week in my former country with Andrew Mountbatten Windsor, as he is now being called, being entirely stripped of the word Prince. So he is a bit like the artist formerly known as Prince. The Prince formerly known as Prince.
- [06:16]
Michael Wolff
It's the ultimate defenestration.
- [06:18]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
The ultimate.
- [06:19]
Michael Wolff
The defenestration of our time. Yes.
- [06:22]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And he's been taken out of Frogmore Cottage, which of course isn't really a cottage at all in the English way.
- [06:31]
Michael Wolff
It's actually 30 bedrooms out of Frogmore.
- [06:34]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Frog marched out of Frogmore and dispatched to the furthest corner of Norfolk, which is a damp, cold, wind blown corner of the United Kingdom, where he's going to reside in some old farmhouse. So farewell, Andrew.
- [06:57]
Michael Wolff
So the question I think we have to ask, and it's not as if we have not asked this question before, because it is the obvious question that Epstein has pulled down everyone who has at one time or another embraced him, or embraced others too, but embraced, embraced specifically him in this context, but it has not pulled down. The one person it has not pulled down is Donald Trump, the person who has had the longest, closest, most intertwined relationship with him. He yet is. I mean, I would not exactly say he is impervious to it because it is all around him, but he is yet above it.
- [07:53]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, it's interesting also just to think about why Andrew? Why Andrew and why now and this fall? He's been the subject of two books. We interviewed the author of one of them the day of publication of the book. Andrew Loney, the British author who wrote entitled the Rise and Downfall of the House of York, in which he chronicles Andrew's orgies in Thailand, his greed, his skirting towards the margins of the law in terms of how he raised money. And then in his wake, Sarah Ferguson, his former wife, with whom he shares Frogmore, who's now been demanding her own house and apparently asking to get Adelaide Cottage, which is where Will and Kate were living on the grounds of Windsor Castle.
- [08:45]
Michael Wolff
Understand that she has now been entirely expelled from this. She's no longer. He will be continued to be supported by the King, but she will not. And she is out of a house too.
- [08:58]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
She is, I think, largely now relying on friends. Pretty much everything she's been involved with, from charities to radio shows, have dropped her. And Andrew is being supported privately by the King, not on the dollar, as it were. So it's pretty interesting. And then of course, there was the publication of Virginia Giuffre's book.
- [09:24]
Michael Wolff
Before you go to the next book, let's note at this book that this is the book that the Trumps. The trumps sued or threatened sue with regard to this book. To the extent that they were introduced that that it referenced their connection with with Epstein and then and Harper Collins, the publisher in the UK which is owned by Rupert Murdoch, almost immediately relented and or capitulated, apologized, took excise. The those parts in the book I think may have recalled the book, but.
- [10:07]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
I'm not I don't think they recalled the book from the shop, but they changed the E edition so they edited the E edition to take out the bit they felt was offending about Melania. And then mysteriously their CEO, who'd been there for some time, resigned suddenly. Great surprise to everybody in the publishing industry.
- [10:28]
Michael Wolff
It's very hard to recall books from the bookshelf. But they are not issuing the book anymore. My understanding.
- [10:34]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, if you can get a copy entitled the Rise and Fall of the House of York is a very good read and Andrew Loney has been working on it for many years and a collector's copy now, a collector's copy which will have gone up in value. You can probably sell it on ebay unless the police come to your house first. And it was self published in the US where I believe you can still buy a copy.
- [10:59]
Michael Wolff
I have a copy.
- [11:00]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, we have a copy here too, actually. Perhaps we should raffle off our copy because we've both read it. But Andrew Loney could not be a. More There we are right here. Andrew Loney, the author, could not be a more British establishment figure. And for him to write this book was a real slap in the face. And then of course, Prince Charles or King Charles, I'm sorry, 74 years in apprenticeship to his job. I grew up with him as Prince Charles. King Charles was on a walkabout this week and got heckled by someone who shouted about his brother and Epstein. And I cannot tell you how unusual it is for the king to be heckled. I mean, it simply doesn't happen. There's enormous respect even among republicans in the UK for the royal family and for King Charles. And this was also seen as a potential tipping point. Then you've got Prince William, the Prince of Wales, who's got now the monarchy in his sight because of course, King Charles announced he had cancer and he was living with it, but it wasn't curable. So William is now limbering up for his role, swinging his legs from the throne. And he's had enough of Andrew. He understands that Andrew is it's not a good thing for the royal family. So they've basically, as you say, defenestrated him.
- [12:23]
Michael Wolff
Dispatched.
- [12:24]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Dispatched to the cold wilds of Norfolk where I have spent some time myself. And it is very lonely and windy up there.
- [12:33]
Michael Wolff
I have been there myself. I was actually quite impressed by, at least by the Britishness of Norfolk.
- [12:42]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, it's beautiful. And of course, it's the home of Sandringham, which is the Queen's, or was the Queen's Christmas place to go. And of course, where actually Prince Andrew, when he was still Prince, took Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell shooting. And there have been a series of emails which have come out from Andrew to Jeffrey Epstein after the time that he claimed he'd stopped their friendship and told the BBC in the now infamous interview he did on Newsnight with Emily Maitlis, the reporter Emily Maitlis, that he'd stopped his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And then, in fact, there were emails saying, hey, sorry about this, you know, you and I will play again soon. Just got to give this a bit of time to die down. So bad news for Andrew, it didn't die down.
- [13:31]
Michael Wolff
And I think that's what Donald Trump feels about this, or as he says, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein becomes a kind of Shakespearean chant. But I think that that's the remarkable thing about this story. It's a story almost designed to bring down people. That's why it goes on. It won't be satisfied. The story can't end until this person and then the next person, and then the next person is brought down with the final person seeming to be Donald Trump.
- [14:12]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
So the other book that's come out, of course, has contributed to this and some say was the actual final nail in Andrew's title coffin is Virginia Giuffre's book Nobody's Girl, which I picked up, I will admit, with some reluctance because I was like, how much more can I read about this? There's a point where one gets a sort of overdose of Epstein. But Amy Wallace, her ghost writer, who insisted on the book being published after Virginia committed suicide earlier this year, has done an excellent job. And there's been a lot of sort of talk about Virginia being an unreliable witness, that she was addicted to drugs when she was young, she was abused by her father, her father then passed her off to one of his friends. All of which is dealt in remarkable detail, actually. But the life that she led with Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell, well, all I can say is there is no reason why you would ever pardon Ghislaine Maxwell and let her out of her prison camp in Texas where Todd Blanche thoughtfully moved her to after interviewing her for two days when she was in a higher security jail in Tallahassee.
- [15:25]
Michael Wolff
You know, and I know that, I mean this book has gotten a lot of attention and people are taking it seriously. I would just footnote to this and, and I've always found this a complicated part of this whole Epstein equation that she particularly, but there are a long list of others have made an enormous amount of money off of this and this becomes a kind of, of a kind of industry. And so this is not to say that what she says is not true. She didn't have this experience in this relationship. But it just gives me pause when you've made tens of millions of dollars and perhaps more off of the story you are telling just to say that.
- [16:17]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Totally fair point. And she got £12 million from the Queen who wanted all this to go away. Her second son, Prince Andrew, who continued to deny that he knew her even though there was photographic evidence and the photo was taken by Jeffrey Epstein. And she details three occasions that she has sex with Andrew. And yes, yes, she, she went on to make money from it.
- [16:45]
Michael Wolff
She's the one who introduced the, the, the bold face names into this story. Prince Andrew among among them and along with Andrew Alan Dershowitz who, who then sued her and then she was actually forced to recant what she had said. So there, there is, this is a complicated story and I just want to note this not to, not to defend anyone and not to, and not to dismiss her. But just as we talk about this story, this narrative to this is, this is a not insignificant note about one of the, the, the key people involved in this story.
- [17:32]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And I think to be fair, she, she talks about the money and she talks about Bred Edwards, the lawyer who corralled many of the victims because he too sensed that there was money in this for him and for the victims.
- [17:46]
Michael Wolff
I mean we're not, we're talking, let's talk about the level of money here is astounding. It's literally hundreds of millions of dollars. And, and we can say well, well, well these, these, these victims were deserved it. But whether they did or, or, or didn't, the, the nature of money and the amount of money changes the context in which everything occurs. Even Brad Edwards who went from a nothing lawyer to you know, to a jet setting lawyer now and, and in literally an amount of money that's that you could say supported bar. But again, this distracts from the main story and what the shadow of Epstein is doing. Now, but we should come back to this, to the broader context at some point.
- [18:46]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
We can come back to it, but one of the other people it claimed was literally Virginia Giuffre because all the money in the world didn't put right the life that she'd had. And so it's just a very interesting book coming at the time. It does. As this story builds in the US as we are on, I think day 30, we're recording this on Halloween, on day 30 of the shutdown and when tomorrow 42 million people are likely to lose their SNAP benefits and the premiums for healthcare double. And there is a total reluctance to get the government back and swear in poor Adelita Griava who's sitting there.
- [19:30]
Michael Wolff
SNAP benefits. Just to explain our. Food benefits.
- [19:33]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Yeah, food benefit. What did I say they were.
- [19:35]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, you didn't say. But it's, it's.
- [19:37]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Sorry, I, I thought by this point we understood what SNAP benefits were because the fear of losing them is dominating a lot of people's lives. And then we have the congresswoman from Arizona, ADA Adelita Griavo, who's sitting there waiting to be sworn in. And Mike Johnson won't do it. He doesn't want them back because he doesn't want the vote to open the Epstein files. It, it, it. I mean, everybody says you can't make it up, you can't make it up. But as you say, it's almost like a story that's been designed to come.
- [20:05]
Michael Wolff
Back to the Epstein ballroom. They know hangs everywhere within the, within the Trump White House. And we forget about this because we're, you know, you know, bombing boats and.
- [20:19]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, we're going back to nuclear testing and.
- [20:22]
Michael Wolff
Yes, and we're going to, and we're back in the Cold War and etc. Etc. And invading US cities. But along with all of this, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. And here's one from our sponsors.
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Michael Wolff
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- [22:28]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And we're back with Michael Wolff discussing everything that's inside Trump's head. So the other thing that's going on, and we didn't talk about this last week when he was pardoned, but is the pardoning of cz, the CEO and founder of Binance, the crypto exchange who had been fined under the Biden regime, I think 4.3 billion doll for allowing money laundering on the exchange. And he'd been sent to jail himself for four years for skirting money laundering laws. And guess who's benefiting from that?
- [23:09]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, you know, and let me, I just pulled a paragraph from a story in yesterday's Wall Street Journal which I think is worth worth reading and immortalizing. And everyone should frame this paragraph and, and put it on their walls. And it says this spring Binance. And I cannot look at that word without thinking of Beyonce. So to my mind, it's, it's, it's the Beyonce crypto company.
- [23:42]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, perhaps Beyonce will launch her own.
- [23:44]
Michael Wolff
Meme coin this spring. Binance took steps that catapulted the Trump family ventures new stablecoin product, enhancing its credibility and pushing its market capitalization. Wait for it. Here it comes. Up from 127 million to over 2.1 billion. Now, I think you can actually get a pardon from the President of the United States for much less than that. But this was a for The President, I think a very, very lucrative pardon.
- [24:20]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Yes. And I think for cz, a very easy pardon. Right.
- [24:25]
Michael Wolff
You know, I mean, again, and let me go back to a moment on the campaign trail when Trump was very, very irritable, as he was often, but this was at a particular point of irritation, and they were flying out to Colorado, I think, for a fundraiser, and then he began to storm about and saying, why are we doing this? Why am I going to these fundraisers? I don't have to go to these fundraisers because. Wait for it. Crypto guys will give me everything I need.
- [25:02]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
The crypto guys. And of course, you've got David Sacks now sitting in the White House as a isar, and the sense of any regulation around AI in particular and around crypto, which was something the Biden administration had wrestled with and Gary Gensler had certainly wrestled with at the sec. It's an open playground now for people. And happily, the younger Trump members, Donald and Eric, are filling their pockets.
- [25:35]
Michael Wolff
And it's not just that it's an open playground. I mean, you would raise your eyes about crypto in any context, but then this double context, in which in which not only the President's supporters benefit, but literally members of the president's family, the President himself is. Is in on the crypto grift in a very, very, very substantial way. I mean, this is. Billy, we're talking billions. We're not. We're not talking about, you know, a little here and a little there. We're talking about real money.
- [26:15]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And it's worth pointing out that it was Russian money. They were laundering Russian money, money from Al Qaeda, money from Iran, money from Hamas. I mean, this was an astonishing platform. And the fine was $4 billion, which gives you a sense of how serious at least the previous regime in America took. Let's.
- [26:43]
Michael Wolff
Yikes.
- [26:44]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Should we launch a meme coin? Should we launch an inside Trump's head meme coin?
- [26:48]
Michael Wolff
Well, we should. We should definitely do that. But first we have to figure out what a meme coin is. And that may.
- [26:56]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
I think it's chocolate. I think it's chocolate. And it comes wrapped in gold paper. And you get them at Christmas.
- [27:00]
Michael Wolff
I think most other people, they don't care. Let's do a meme coin. Even even though they don't know what a meme coin is.
- [27:07]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
It's always fun asking someone to explain crypto to you because they often just drift off in the middle of the explanation. Interesting that the crypto story appeared in the Wall Street Journal. Very damning of Trump and His business dealings and the Sun's crypto dealings. Where is the case with Rupert Murdoch? Do we have any info on it? Because he's obviously suing them for, what was it, $10 billion over the birthday letters from Jeffrey Epstein.
- [27:34]
Michael Wolff
Right. I was only threatened with a $1 billion suit. Rupert Murdoch gets a $10 billion suit, which seems unfair if I'm getting, if they're threatening me with a $1 billion suit. Given our, the disparity in our net worth, I think Rupert Murdoch should be sued for like a trillion dollars.
- [27:56]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
You may have disparity of net worth, but you might not have as big disparity of impact. I mean, it's hard not to think that you along with Virginia Giuffre have really driven the Epstein conversation.
- [28:09]
Michael Wolff
Well, that, that is different way of looking at it. I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll take that. But in fact, the, the birthday letter shoe that dropped at, in the Wall Street Journal was, was significant. I mean truly impactful. I mean it was that moment of vivid connection with a, with a picture. We had the picture of, of the letter, Donald Trump's signature, which he denied writing, connecting these two guys.
- [28:42]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And to your point, brought down Peter Mandelson, the then British ambassador in Washington for a much lesser relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. Although they were very close friends and Peter signed the note, your best pal. But clearly they had less of a relationship than Epstein and Trump had.
- [29:03]
Michael Wolff
Everybody, let me repeat this because I think it's vitally important. Everybody had a lesser relationship. These guys, Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were each other's closest friend for more than a decade. And I believe that in the sum total each other's closest relationship in life.
- [29:28]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Okay, that leads us to the polls where and another newspaper.
- [29:33]
Michael Wolff
Well, let's go back, at least tie that question. Where we are, where Rupert Murdoch is. So I, again, Donald Trump, the Wall Street Journal owned by Rert Murdoch published this birthday letter. Donald Trump turned around and said I didn't do that. That's a complete made up lie and I'm suing you for defamation for $10 billion. Then subsequently the entire birthday book was, was, was, was released with that letter in the book and letters from hundreds of other people who did not say that is made up. So at any rate, that suit goes on. But there is concern in Murdoch circles that, that the price of Murdoch being allowed to, to become one of the investors in the new American version of TikTok itself. Another, another Trumpian grift story because somehow the government of the United States has taken over this company and is apportioning out who, who will get a discount participation in this new reconstituted company. If you, if you are, if you are, I mean given, if you are allowed to become an investor in this company that's like you invest at X and it's suddenly worth 3x. Rupert Murdoch has been invited to become one of those investors and there are people in the Murdoch circle who believe that the price of that is for him to capitulate on this lawsuit. And it's certainly not defended, in fact, probably having, having to put some money directly into Trump's pocket. So we should keep our eye on that.
- [31:40]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, I thought the TikTok deal was supposed to have been dealt with this week actually, but I haven't seen enough about it and I wasn't sure if they were supposed to be putting the finishing touches to it in China. I'd certainly read they were planning to do that on his Chinese trip, but that doesn't seem to have come to pass in yet.
- [32:00]
Michael Wolff
That has not been been released. And, but the China trip and we should, we should also always come back, we've dealt with this before, we should always come back to it, that this is a, a, a signal defeat for Trump that he launched that, that 10 months more, more than 10 months now of this administration has been devoted to bringing China to its knees. And the result 10 months in is that Trump is the guy on his knees.
- [32:32]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Right. And we have a one year truce with rare earths, which is just a phrase that none of us would have said a year ago.
- [32:40]
Michael Wolff
All of this, everything that we said that we have spoken about here and often the theme is that we can't remember this two weeks from now. That's Trump's, that's Trump's incredible gift. But curiously, there are, there's an, a new poll out that might take issue with that, that there, there may be a cumulative effect here because Trump turns out to be not more and more popular, but less and less popular.
- [33:17]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Are you talking about the Washington Post? BELL I am the Washington Post. Where democracy dies in darkness.
- [33:24]
Michael Wolff
Well, where once it died, was supposed to die in darkness. Does it still say that on the Post anymore? I don't think so.
- [33:30]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
I think they might have removed it when Jeff Bezos was saying that actually they needed to embrace the free market of ideas.
- [33:38]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, and just remind that Jeff Bezos, Amazon's Jeff Bezos, owns the Washington Post. He was once a fervent anti Trumper, but has become with Trump's reelection, along with so many other Formerly fervent anti Trumpers in Silicon Valley, a rather devoted supporter.
- [34:02]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, and not unlike J.D. vance, who once referred to Trump as the new Hitler but now solidly embraces him. How people do political 180s, it's fascinating. So the poll in the Washington Post suggests that Trump's speed and energy over the last 10 months is not playing out well, nor indeed is the shutdown, and that people are beginning to blame the Republicans, who've of course, got all three branches for the shutdown.
- [34:33]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. And I think, and again, I mean, having been in this, been following this Trump story for far, far longer than I ever imagined or ever wanted to, I am always left with this feeling that nobody remembers anything. And it is quite possible that everything that we're talking about now, no one will remember that. But let's at least kind of plant the flag here that it is possible that this shutdown is one of those, those, those things that will have a permanent impact on Donald Trump. A shutdown. This is, this is as, as much as he tries to distract from that, this is a major moment. It's a major moment for the Democrats not to have, not to have to have been willing to put themselves out there and say, yeah, well, we could be blamed for this, but, but the truth is we shouldn't be blamed for this. The Republicans are in control. And let them, let them eat it. Let them eat the fact that, that, that all of these government employees are going without paychecks. That, that people who, across the country who rely on food stamps are not, are not getting, they literally will get nothing. So therefore, therefore the three or four hundred dollars that you might, that, that you have to live on, that has to feed you this month won't come. So the impact of, of that, but we're not sure about the impact. I think that's, that's what I mean. There, there are several, several levels of impact here. How do people personally react to that? Do they, do they blame Donald Trump? And how, and how do the Democrats, Democrats and the Republicans as a whole, how did they respond to this? Do they get nervous? I mean, if, if I were the Democrats, this is, this is a hard moment because you see these people, these people, these people really going without really suffering. And so you go, okay, you know, I mean, you know, we can, we can't let this go on. But at the same time, same, at the same time, the Democrats really have nothing else they can do. They have no other leverage on this administration. And let's go to our sponsors Monday Sidekick, the AI agent that knows you and your business, thinks ahead and takes action. Don't get anything seriously. Monday Sidekick A AI you'll love to use. Start a free trial today on Monday.com.
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Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
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Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
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- [38:55]
Michael Wolff
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- [39:29]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And we're back inside Trump's head. Donald Trump seems intent and excited by the idea of getting this to be the longest government shutdown in history. I think we're five days away from that, as if that's some sort of triumph. And he seems to have or certainly hasn't expressed yet any concern about the idea of 42 million people not having access to food benefits. I mean, it does seem a remarkable moment. Mike Johnson seems to have been left to try and sort it out. And you can hear now from Republican congresspeople who are anxious about this. We've talked before about Marjorie Taylor Greene and her children who are suddenly facing their premiums, health insur insurance premiums doubling. This isn't good for Republicans. So I don't understand why they are doing this.
- [40:25]
Michael Wolff
Well, I, I can explain that. I mean, they're, they're, they're literally doing this because this is, this is what Donald Trump wants. I mean, you know, the whole Trump premise is that there is, that there is no apologies, there's no contrition, there's no backtracking. You just go forward, you double down. And that has inexplicably proved to be a winning strategy. And from the in, in the Donald Trump playbook, you keep doing what has worked in the past. So the question now is, is, is, is profound. Does this stop working? Is this the moment when it stops working? From Donald Trump's point of view, you say, of course it's not going to be the mom working. This always works. And in his defense, it has had a long record of success, but it's.
- [41:27]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Not bumped up against 42 million people not getting food benefits or a million people being furloughed without pay.
- [41:38]
Michael Wolff
A lot of people have forgiven Donald Trump for a lot of things which you would think that they would not have. You know, I think to me, the, the stakes are on an almost on a narrative basis. Are, are, are, are, are slightly different than individual suffering, which, which I do not discount in, in any way. But Donald Trump has thrived on the fact that he always seems to win for some reason. I mean, this becomes inculcated in the way people think about him. He's a winner. And so they forgive a lot of things because he's a winner, the sense of inevitability around that. But if he is, if the Democrats can bring him to the point of literally having to capitulate, and their issue is very precise. It's about Obamacare, which we should also highlight because the rates on Obamacare of what people are going to have to pay for next year's insurance are skyrocketing. As we speak.
- [42:53]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Well, tomorrow. The new enrollment period begins tomorrow, and people will find their premiums have doubled.
- [42:59]
Michael Wolff
Not only will they find that their premiums are doubled, but they're getting much less for what they're paying for. I mean, we use Obamacare in, In my house because I'm a poor writer and, you know, I, I don't have anyone giving me insurance.
- [43:19]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
I thought Trump had said that he'd made you rich with all those books you've written about him.
- [43:23]
Michael Wolff
No matter how rich you are in my version of, Of. Of.
- [43:28]
Mint Mobile Advertiser
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- [43:28]
Michael Wolff
Of rich is a. Is a pathetic version. You still can't afford health insurance.
- [43:38]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
But.
- [43:41]
Michael Wolff
Having said that, I mean, really, what this is. If he capitulates on this and the Democrats so far are essentially saying it's all or nothing, you know, you've got to do this or we're going to keep the government shut down. I, you know, I think that. I think he understands this too, that it is. That's. That that losing to him is. Not losing to him is more important than the suffering of so many people. So how does this come. Does, does this come back to, To.
- [44:20]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
To.
- [44:20]
Michael Wolff
To change the narrative around him? We don't. We don't know. But I, I'm just saying that, that, that maybe it does. May. Maybe there is. Maybe there is some hope somewhere here, possibly.
- [44:39]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Anna Zinc Z. I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly, says the bull where John Travolta dance with Princess Diana was held in the West Wing. And it was big enough for them.
- [44:53]
Michael Wolff
You know, big enough for John Travolta and Princess Diana. Well, there you go.
- [44:57]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Okay. And Johan Navan Winkle9477 says the plans for that ballroom stick out like a sore thumb next to the White House. It is gaudy and tasteless.
- [45:10]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. Yeah. Yes. I mean, what, I mean, what. What else? It's Trump. I mean, remember, this will be that. That. I mean, the Trump Ballroom and the Trump signature is gaudy and tasteless. I mean, that has been the signature of his. Of his career. That is the thematic. The thematic point. He would not have it any other way. Way. That's the point.
- [45:41]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
That is the point. The Epstein Ballroom, as we shall now refer to it, as it's referred to in the White House. Ruth Ridley says, my suspicion is as follows. I don't think the main goal is the ballroom. The World War II bunker is under the east wing. Trump's real project is to enlarge and completely update the bunker and make it into a room outfitted with the latest technology, munitions, weaponry, the, perhaps even throw in some nuclear weapons. And it is odd that he's been talking about it, been talking about nuclear testing.
- [46:16]
Michael Wolff
Well, I mean, let me, I mean, what I know about this is that bunker is pretty secure already. I mean, it's not that the underlying military facility at the White House has been under resourced. The White House, as I said before, and I think it's kind of a fascinating thing is a facade on a very sophisticated military installation.
- [46:47]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Final question from Lynne Atkinson for Ask Melania, please subpoena her immigration paperwork. How much money did she make and report for her modeling job? And did her income match her lifestyle style for 10 years before Donald J. Trump?
- [47:05]
Michael Wolff
Absolutely.
- [47:06]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Done, Lynn, done.
- [47:08]
Michael Wolff
Yes. This is the story, I mean, the entire, the entire question here in the, in the question, the question Melania raises by, by this, by these, these, these threats to anyone who brings, who connects her to Donald Trump, a connection you can see and the photographic evidence is, is there. But the, the question that it prompts is what, what was her life in the 1990s? She was an Eastern European model who came to New York in the really the bad old days of being a model in New York. And, and I think to find out what that story was will be revelatory. And she's what she's essentially asking for.
- [48:05]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
And you're a man on a mission. You're a man on a mission to find out. Send us your questions for Melania. And if you're coming to our live event at the Museum of the City of New York next week, bring your questions with you. We'll have an audience section and we're excited, excited to get into it. Michael, what are you up to over.
- [48:26]
Michael Wolff
The weekend in our town? This is a, this is a, a Halloween weekend. It's not just Halloween, Halloween today, but the parade Here starts at 2 o' clock this afternoon and Halloween events unfold throughout, throughout the weekend. So the from preschool through the sixth grade, everyone will be in costumes until they are inevitably in tears by Sunday evening.
- [48:58]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Too much sugar. Too much sugar, as my mom would say. We'll be back on Tuesday. Many people have been asking us to talk about Russell Vogt.
- [49:09]
Michael Wolff
Okay, let's do it. A really unpleasant figure, but let's go for it.
- [49:13]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
Okay. More unpleasant people to discuss. Michael, thank you very much. I wonder if there'll be videos of the prince formerly known as Prince moving out of Frogmore this weekend. We will keep our eyes closely, closely on that and we will report back on Tuesday.
- [49:34]
Michael Wolff
Fantastic.
- [49:35]
Co-host/Interviewer with Michael Wolff
All right. And don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. We're independent media so we appreciate it. Appreciate your support. Don't forget to subscribe to this podcast. Please leave us comments and reviews if you listen on Apple and Spotify. And don't forget whatever your costume be beast and I'm going to give a shout out to some new Big Beast members. We've got Herbie, Andrew Mellor, Sandra Clark, Bonzo, Val Love, San Francisco Bocock, D.C. karen White, Heidi Wright, Kylie, Andrea Hodel.
- [50:07]
Michael Wolff
Sharon Shipley, Connie Rutherford and thank you to Devin and Jesse. Thank you all.
- [50:25]
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- [51:20]
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