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Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile.
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I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have
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one of your assistant's assistants switch you
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to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to do. @mintmobile.com Switch upfront payment of $45 for
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3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month. Required intro rate first 3 months only,
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then full price plan options available, taxes
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and fees, extra fee, full terms@mintmobile.com Trump is a HollyW.
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What does Hollywood stand for? It stands for fame. It stands for celebrity. It stands for wait for it, girls. Why was Brett Ratner in China other than to be there as Donald Trump's BFF and security blanket? When the trip ended, Donald Trump said to Brett Ratner, I've got to be able to get in touch with you at all times. The friendship with Brett Ratner exactly goes to the character of it all or the Epstein of it all. Or the Trump of it all. Or the grab them by the pussy of it all.
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A
Thank you, Michael.
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B
I'm Michael Wolfe. This is Hugh Docherty who is filling in for Joanna Coles who will be back, I believe, on Thursday. So that's great news.
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And I just, I think I should say on behalf of everybody at the Daily Beast, a huge amount of thank you to the many people who've been in touch with messages of support for Joanna. I know she has felt it. I know we've. You've discussed that with her. I've discussed it with her. And it's going to be great for her to be back and I'm going to be happy to hand over this seat to her.
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B
Well, I will. I'm already missing you. You.
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A
Oh, that's a pleasure. And one thing I should say as well, thank you to everybody who subscribes to the Daily Beast podcast. We have more than 600,000 subscribers. Please, if you liked it, share it with your friends, hit the subscribe button and hopefully we can get to a million because this is incredibly valuable, incredibly valuable podcast. Thanks.
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B
We will surely get to a million. We are marching forward.
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We are marching forward. Michael.
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All you have to do is continue to show up and we'll get to them.
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A
We're long marchers. On the subject of long marchers, which took place, the Long march took place in China, you have a fascinating revelation about one of the mysteries of Trump's trip to China on your Instagram. And I wanted to explore that with you.
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B
So I know who Trump's most recent BFF is and we should continue this so that there will be a reveal on this. But I'm not sure how you get quite to the reveal, so we might as well just go for it.
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A
We are giving you the reveal in advance.
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B
So Trump has, in the last couple of months, become very close to the film director, Brett Ratner, who he brought along with him on his trip to China. Now, this is interesting from a couple of points of view. First, that it would be Brett Ratner, who was early in the first Trump administration, MeTooed into oblivion. So Brett Ratner is, I think, by popular consensus. I don't think anyone would disagree with this. I don't even think he. He might not even have trouble with this description. One of the sleaziest guys in Hollywood, I should say. He.
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A
When this, you know, when the reckoning of MeToo happened, many people were caught up in it. Obviously, he actually left for Israel in the course of it because it appeared that his career was toast.
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B
No, his career was toast. I mean, he was out. I mean, he's essentially been out of business in Hollywood for the past 10 years. His. He comes out of MeToo purgatory because of one thing. Because he was selected by Melania Trump to be the director of her film Melania the Movie. Now, why, why, why Brett Ratner. And Ratner is most well known for. As the director of the.
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What's the name of the Rush Hour,
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The Rush Hour series. I couldn't remember. Cause it's just one of those generic action films.
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A
Rush Hour, there's the Fast and the Furious, there's Rush Hour, there's probably Fast Rush, I don't know.
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B
But Rush Hour one, Rush Hour two, Rush Hour three. So Melania selects him to. And this is apparently without Trump's input. She selects him to be the director of her film film Melania the Movie, which is. How can we describe it? I'm not even sure it is quite possible to find the words to describe this movie, this documentary from any logical standpoint. It is appalling in all respects. I mean, it is. It is a music video for the First Lady. It is a promotion for the first lady. And then remember, she gets. This is a kind of bribe. It's Amazon, Jeff Bezos. And Amazon's bribe to the, to the Trump White House, which is that they've paid. They paid Melania $40 million to make this movie. And then there's an additional 75 or something like that they've put into promoting this mov.
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A
Just going to say that Amazon have corporately denied that it is a bribe and said that it had nothing to do with Jeff Bezos meeting the Trumps at Mar a Lago. Just put that on the record.
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B
Put this on the record. I mean, there is no circumstance in which someone would say, yes, it was a bribe.
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A
That would be an unusual corporate statement.
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B
So at any rate, you have. You have Brett Ratner, this sleaze ball drummed out of Hollywood, brought back to direct Melania's movie, which she is being paid $40 million for by Jeff Bezos, Amazon. Okay, then. So in the process of this, he becomes quite. He meets the President of the United States, Donald Trump, the husband of Melania Trump, and they bond. Now, I have some of the background to this also from people around Trump who say, well, you know, he has no one else. That actually what this is, is a measure of how bad things are going for him. And it's an interesting indication that he seems to be aware that things are going badly for him and what he does when things are going badly for him. And we can go down the list, the economy, ice, health care, obviously the war in Iran. And we can keep going. And we can include the ballroom. And we will come back.
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A
We have more to talk about that ballroom.
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B
And Epstein, just across the board, matter of fact, there is, we can safely say there is no good news for Donald Trump. Okay. In that situation, and this is inside Trump's head, we. What he does is blame other people. So it is a tenet of Donald Trump's personality and a tenant of Donald Trump's politics, that someone else is always to blame. He is not capable of seeing anything that might be his fault, not seeing anything, not capable of seeing anything that he might do differently. His approach is to double down. If things are going wrong, it's because somebody else did something wrong.
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A
And you've got some specifics as well on exactly who's getting at least some of that blame right now.
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B
Well, it's kind of, you know, I mean, there is. I mean, we've seen several Cabinet, Cabinet, Cabinet heads be fired. We see other cabinet heads who are under the gun and probably will be fired. It is everywhere. There is nobody who is in good shape, including his most recent bff, golfing partner, Steve Witkoff, who is now being blamed, and not unreasonably for Iran and certainly for being unable to come to a settlement in Iran. So he has nobody around him. Enter Brett Ratner. And so Brett Ratner as a Trump compatriot is interesting and tells us quite a bit about Donald Trump. First thing, Donald Trump has always liked Hollywood people. Matter of fact, he's been incredibly resentful of the fact that. And hurt, I think, by the fact that Hollywood people don't like him. Then Brett Ratner is exactly the kind of Hollywood guy he has always, always, always hoped that he could bond with. He is a, shall we say it, a grab them by the pussy guy. I mean, in some sense. And let's rush ahead also to point out that Brett Ratner had an Epstein relationship.
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A
I was going to say that this is almost like a. There's a lot of triangle. Brett Ratner and Donald Trump are connected. Brett Ratner and Jeffrey Epstein were connected, but Brett Ratner was not connected to Trump at that time. So it's.
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B
Right. No. So it's kind of come back. The symmetry is now complete. And this is very. These are guys of a very particular. I mean, this is the misogyny central, effectively. Then there's another element of the Brett Ratner story. So, okay, so Brett Ratner metooed out of business for 10 years, gets the Melania job as a direct result of that. Now, as we said, There's Rush Hour 1, Rush Hour 2, Rush Hour 3. There's been a script for Rush Hour 4 for many years, which he couldn't get financed. No one was gonna make a movie with Brett Ratner. And on top of that, probably nobody wanted to make Rush Hour 4 anyway.
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A
You know where it's going to be set.
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B
I mean. But Rush Hour 4 has now been greenlit by Paramount. Now, Paramount is the studio that has recently been taken over by Larry Ellison. The tech billionaire. The billionaire.
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200 million, something like that. I think his current net worth on Forbes at the Moment is about 225 to 230. It's a lot.
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B
So actually, Larry Ellison's son, David Ellison, is the CEO of Paramount. But of course, this is. Larry Ellison is the chief shareholder of the company. It is Larry Ellison's money. Also, they are in the process of taking over Warner Brothers. Both of these acquisitions, Paramount and Warner's, they were able to do these acquisitions because of Donald Trump.
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A
And a lot of the focus just we've focused at the Daily Beast on the takeover, particularly of CBS News and the move there to make it much more maga coded. Maga Curious. But this is a whole other aspect
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B
that's taking over Paramount. The studio owns, in addition to the film studio, they own cbs. They own Comedy Central. I mean, It's a, this is, this is a giant company, giant media conglomerate. And now they will be taken over Warner's, which will include cnn, hbo, and, and essentially, essentially they will dominate Hollywood. And this is, again, this actually, actually comes back to Trump's love of Hollywood. And how, how do you get Hollywood to love him back? Well, you have one of your guys buy it, basically. At any rate, Brett Ratner's Rush Hour 4 is now being made by Paramount as another way to please Donald Trump.
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A
Who knew that he was, first of all a Jackie Chan fan? I don't know. But who knew he was such a, such a movie buff that he wanted another sequel to. In fact, we discussed on an earlier episode, you spoke to him about his love of the Godfather.
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Yeah, well, I mean, I don't even think.
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Or at least his knowledge of.
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Yeah, Trump is not a movie guy, but Trump is a Hollywood guy. What does Hollywood stand for? It stands for fame. It stands for celebrity. It stands for, wait for it, girls. So this is very much a comfort zone in, actually an aspirational zone for Donald Trump. And now Brett Ratner has now become that. It's as though Trump has cleared away all of the dingoes and morons in the White House and now we've stepped up to a dingo and moron in, in Hollywood, which I think Trump would probably see as a step up. And I did hear. So when the trip, the China trip, and what was Brett Ratner doing in China? Oh, there's another interesting thing about Brett Ratner that he is known in Hollywood as being Putin's guy. So if you wanted to know where, where. If you wanted access to Russian money, Brett Ratner was a good place to go to. At least he was until he was cast out of Hollywood. But now, of course, he's back. So when the trip in China finished. And again, why was Brett Ratner in China other than to be there as Donald Trump's BFF and security blanket and the guy he could talk to? And in fact, when the trip ended, Donald Trump said to Brett Ratner, I've gotta be able to get in touch with you at all times.
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A
That's.
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B
What does that mean?
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A
That's crazy. Which is ironic because basically there's plenty of people who can get in touch with Donald Trump at all times. He answers his phone at 6:30, at 2:30 in the morning. He's on his phone at 4 in the morning. But it's, it's.
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B
Yeah, well, I think the issue is, here is the other way. Brett Ratner, you're You're, you're on. You're on point. You're now you're my bff. So I got to be able to speak to you whenever I need to speak to you.
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A
It's worth running through the reasons why Trump might need a new bff is you briefly touched on it.
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B
Well, there's no one around him. I mean, I mean, literally everybody is now. Is now someone to blame. But that's the point, Paris. I mean, that's the important thing, I think. Takeaway here. Well, actually, there are a couple of takeaways here, but one of those takeaways is that he understands how bad things are now in his way of processing, that is to blame someone else. But of course, that doesn't change how bad things are. And things are very bad. But. And then the other takeaway is a character takeaway that this is that Brett Ratner, the friendship with Brett Ratner, exactly. Goes to the character of it all, or the Epstein of it all, or the Trump of it all, or the grab them by the pussy of it all.
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A
And let's just go through some of the things that are bad. I think we've all been taken by quite how bad the polls are. And polls are something that Trump, Trump has obsessed over the years about polls and ratings, ratings and polls, and he
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uses them as a means. And the polls this week are a new inflection point.
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A
Some of the numbers are worth. I'm looking down because I'm going to make sure I get these numbers right. But New York Times and the Siena poll, and that is regarded as the best there is, and one that, you know, has tended to, I think, be fairly accurate about the prediction of elections. But at the moment, he is down to 37% approval rating. That's the lowest he's been. It's the same rating that George W. Bush left on in the midst of a financial crisis, and I hate to say it, an endless war in the Middle east and 69% of people, meaning Republicans among them, disapprove of him on the cost of living.
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B
No, no, no. These are numbers that change the game. I mean, when you get to numbers here, you're kind of at a no equivocation point. You're not at a point where you say, well, it can go. It could get better. You're at a point in numbers when it gets these numbers, it really can't get enough better.
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A
Yeah. Because these numbers is what they're saying are lower than they ever were in 2020 when things were obviously bad for him. These are numbers that we haven't seen for Trump at all. And you've had Trump in your life and in your head for a decade, but he's always been able to find something good in numbers. Right. And this, yeah, doesn't have a silver lining.
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B
There's also, you get to this kind of inflection point in these numbers in which it's not only, well, they can't get. There's no way they can get good enough to overcome this, but when you get to this point, it means that they're going to continue to go down.
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Yes, this is a cascade failure. You're only going one direction, which might be why we saw him. We are recording this, I should say, on Tuesday morning. And we just had a very bizarre appearance of Donald Trump outside. It's really sticky hot down in D.C. i believe it's already in the 90s. It's certainly in the high 80s and it's humid. I mean, Donald Trump was outside in front of what used to be the East Wing, ranting about his ballroom. And Ryan, we, in fact, have a clip of that unusual moment. This is the most important because, number
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B
one, security, and number two, is so needed just on a social basis for presidents. And again, I'll be here for a very short period of time when this opens. I'll be here for a very short period of time. This is really being built for other presidents. It's not being built for me.
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A
And I'm a really good builder.
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B
The thing I do best in life is build. I'm a great builder. And this is incredible. So it's not. I mean, he's doing a news. A news conference, an outside news conference at the hole in the ground where the East Wing once was and where he is hoping, obsessing about where a ballroom will rise. Now, this is totally fascinating because this is. The ballroom is incredibly unpopular. So among all of the unpopular things. And we're really, again, at a point where everything is unpopular. So even immigration, which was the foundation of his election, essentially, or at least one of the foundations that has become unpopular because of the way they have carried this out. So ICE agents, masked ICE agents pulling people from their. Their homes, separating families from their children, just incredibly unpopular. And so we have the ballroom absolutely unpopular. He is destroying the White House. He's destroying the White House in doing it in public before everybody, everybody sees this. There is nobody, nobody who thinks this is a good idea. So why, at this point, at the nadir of his popularity, is he doubling down on this? Because that's what he does. He's not capable. He's not capable of recalibrating. He's not capable of standing back and saying, okay, this is not going well, we better recast this. No, he doubles down, doubles down, doubles down, doubles down. The ballroom has got to be built.
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A
And just that scene, there's literally banging going on in the background, as if that would make the case any more clear for him. It's quite something. But the ballroom is, I mean, that's, as we've said, it's only one of the things. And there's not been much polling on the ballroom, because how do you track people's approval of a ballroom? Kind of tricky. But what there is is mass disapproval of basically every policy. It's the cost of living, it's the economy, it's immigration, it's Iran. And he was in front of the ballroom taking questions. Slightly, weirdly, weird selection of questions from the press. They're asking about the ballroom and then someone asked about Iran and he says, Iran is begging to make a deal.
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B
Well, so yesterday he said, let me get this right. I've decided not to bomb Iran, not to go back to war in Iran, because they're now negotiating. And so this is a kind of, rather than. I mean, within the same sentence, you have aggression and retreat.
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A
Yes.
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B
So in this sudden zero sum proposition in which you can read this, I cannot go back to war in Iran. I. I cannot because it's incredibly unpopular, because we're not accomplishing what we set out to accomplish, and it's incredibly expensive and we are essentially exhausting our military supplies which might be needed in other parts of the world. We cannot go back to war in Iran. So this became this particular Trump formulation. I'm going back to war in Iran, but I'm not. We're not going back to war in Iran, was the. What you could conclude that he was saying there, but he was saying that we are going back to the war in Iran. Except I just decided that we're not, because we're going to give this a little more time. The little more time, yes.
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A
It's like two weeks for healthcare. We're still waiting.
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B
Now, again, The question here, and the question, obviously for Trump, although I'm not sure that he is asking this of himself, is whether or not people see exactly what's going on here, and I'm afraid they see this, that there is enormous clarity in the 10th year of Donald Trump. This is not coming, as everybody knows what he's doing.
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A
And when you say everybody knows what he's doing. I think we should probably reflect on the war. This sort of endless. It's a forever non war now. He can't get out of it and yet can't move on it.
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B
No, I mean, he's stuck. We're in the war that was supposed to last four weeks is now at three months. And he can't win this war. He can't get out of this war, which means he's going to be stuck with this situation. A forever war, or at least very much a continuing. A continuing war and constant issue and another one of those issues which is pulling down his polls, exposing him. Exposing him really. I mean, I think each of these things exposes him for it just becomes the window is clear, it's utterly transparent. I mean, he's caught in this war. This is not a war that he should have gotten into. We should have gotten into. And it's not a war that he can get out of because. Well, because he's to blame. I mean, that's, that's something that he can never. One of the things that happens
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on
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B
your, when you have a war on, on, on your watch, you're the command commander in chief, you're to blame. And everybody gets blamed, from Lyndon Johnson to George Bush to even Ronald Reagan in Nicaragua, you get blamed.
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A
But in this case, it appears to be probably Steve Witkoff who's getting blamed inside the White House.
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B
But for him, in his mind, it is, of course, yes, somebody else's fault.
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A
Now, on the subject of fault and somebody else, one of the other eternal themes is grift. And this week we have had an explosion, I think it's probably a fair description of grift with this new weaponization fund, I should say it's called the Fund for Victims of Weaponization, which sounds, I mean, this sounds like mad Libs, but it's.
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B
Oh, this is extraordinary. So to explain what this is, and it really does need some explaining, yes, Donald Trump is suing the United States of America because, and specifically the IRS and I believe the Justice Department for releasing his taxes, which they didn't release his taxes. Somehow the taxes got leaked.
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A
Right.
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B
And that's what he's suing for. Now, this is, we're already beyond the governance pale here, because Donald Trump is suing the entity which he controls. You're not allowed to do this in jurisprudence. This doesn't exist. I mean, you can't be, you're essentially in this thing being defendant and, and judge at the same time. So he did, and I think he sued for $10 billion. Okay. But now he's come to a settlement. So he settled with himself, basically. And the settlement, remember, this is another thing that was incredibly unpopular and with people saying, oh, my fucking God, this cannot be. How can he sue his own government for $10 billion?
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A
And just to point out the tax returns that were leaked. Every president since Richard Nixon has released the tax returns. I'll make one correction to that. Gerald Ford released a summary of his tax returns. Everybody else has released the lot. Richard Nixon did it. And yet Trump is suing over a partial leak of some of his tax returns. So the whole setup to this is
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B
jaw dropping, jaw dropping. So $10 billion. But now he has settled this case. And the settlement is that the government of the United States, which he controls, will set up a fund, a $1.8 billion fund, and that money will be available. And it's completely unclear how this is available. Who decides it? What are the measures of who gets what? For people who are described as being prosecuted by the Justice. The United States Justice Department for essentially supporting Donald Trump, or in his version of his version. Now, of course, Donald Trump has been. There are. There were four criminal indictments against. Against Donald Trump, including a criminal conviction on 43 counts, I believe. And so the people who are compensated, to be compensated by this fund are essentially people who came to his aid in what might otherwise be construed as criminal activities.
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A
I think that's very fair. Summary. And among them, quite possibly. And this is the kind of. The thing that hangs over it, is we don't know. We would love to know, but all we have is the word of Todd Blanche, who is, first of all, the acting Attorney general and of course, somebody you are intimately familiar with from the courtroom where Donald Trump was convicted because he was his defense attorney. He was in front of the Senate this morning just before we recorded this, and he was asked directly, can Donald Trump's family benefit from this? And we, in fact, have a clip.
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B
Will you commit that none of President Trump's family will receive a direct payout from this fund? Yes, but what you just said is not true.
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A
I mean, if I can correct that,
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B
the president did not direct me to do anything.
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A
And he was also asked about donors, and in that case, he said, will
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B
you commit that none of this money will go to President Trump's campaign donors? I am not committing to anything beyond
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A
the settlement agreement itself.
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B
When you say campaign donors, that they are not excluded from seeking compensation. Let me just further set the scene here. Richard Nixon was forced to resign from office for including the Paying off, creating a slush fund of money to pay off the Watergate burglars. That is essentially what has happened here. We've created a fund of money that the president of the United States can use to compensate people who may well have been involved in aiding him in criminal activities.
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A
The Precise number is 1,776 million, 1.776 billion. So a slightly ironic use of the year in which the nation was founded in opposition to a monarch taking money from people. Just a sort of subplot there.
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B
But let's just moment on Todd Blanche, who was one of my favorite characters here, because this is a person, Todd Blanche, who used to be a Democrat, used to have a job in a respectable white shoot New York law firm and seems to have reached a plateau there. And so had got this opportunity to go to work for Donald Trump. Remember, Donald Trump burns through lawyers. He both burns through lawyers and most lawyers won't go to work for him. But Todd Blanche was given this opportunity in that literal kind of deal with the devil. He has spent the last, what do we last, I guess four years. He's been working for Trump now three years, maybe. Turned himself into a knot, into pretzels. Everything that he says, it's like, how do I justify this? How do I rationalize this? Is it possible that I can survive another day wrapped in this complete illogic?
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A
Fascinating to see and probably going to be there for a while, because he seems to be doing what Trump wants right now.
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B
His goal is to become the Attorney General of the United States. Keep your eye on that. Because it is also perfectly possible that even having tied himself into these knots, he won't get that job.
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A
It may not be enough. It is too much and yet never enough. Mary Trump. It's an impossibility, right?
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B
No. And it's very likely that Todd Blanche will be blamed for something, as everyone around Trump is blamed for something, which is why we get Brett Ratner at
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A
the moment Expedia and visit Scotland. Invite you to come. Step into centuries of history that await in Scotland. Castles steeped in legend walk along cobblestone streets.
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B
Come share the warmth of stories passed down through generations.
- [36:29]
A
This is a place with a past that is fully present today and all yours to explore. Plan your Scottish escape today@expedia.com visitscotland and we also are just going to. There's no easy transition to this. But let's talk about God. We had
- [36:50]
B
so over the weekend, there was a celebration of Jesus Christ in Washington, and that brought all kinds of evangelicals to Washington to celebrate Jesus and Donald Trump.
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A
Possibly not in that order.
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B
Possibly not in that order. And it is, again, one of those, you know, one of the strangest political bedfellows pairing of all time, because I think it's safe to say of this is Jesus and Donald Trump.
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A
Yes. Not a willing pairing on both sides, I would guess. But I just want to quote some words of Donald Trump. I suppose this is a reading from the book of Donald Trump, but while he was doing this bizarre ballroom talk, he went off on various topics, and it's unclear how he got to this, but he started talking about religion and he said religion is a good thing. It's a good thing for our country. Religion is taking off like you've never seen before in our country. You go back two or three years and no one was going to church, obviously. No one. I mean, it's impossible for Trump to know that because he doesn't go to church. But he's really spinning this as hard as he possibly can.
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B
But, you know, the other thing that was interesting to me about this is that Trump wasn't there. Actually. Nobody from the White House was there. They send some videos, but there was. So I was looking at the politics of this. Why have they decided now to try to gain some distance from the evangelicals? Now, one reason is abortion. And abortion is back on the table. And the base is, especially the evangelical base is demanding support for the banning of medical abortions. Mifeprestone, the banning of mifepress Stone. And again, let me go back to the story during the campaign that he was asked about mifepress Stone. And he said, we're looking at that. We'll get back to you in two weeks. And I was there. I turned to one of Trump's guys and he immediately says, has no idea what that is.
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A
But the evangelicals absolutely know what it is.
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B
Absolutely.
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A
And have become energized.
- [39:42]
B
And this is, again, one of those other things. And Trump has intelligently, intelligently, it's a funny word to use in the same sentence with Donald Trump, but he has, let's say, a keenly understood that that's not an issue that he wants to be linked with. This is a genuinely another unpopular issue in the country. It's a popular issue with the core of his base as anti vax, as the anti vax issue is, and then with the greater country, a total loser issue. So clearly he doesn't want to. And this is back on the. Back on the stage. There's been several decisions about this mifepress Stone. Was ruled by a Louisiana. Are we doing that? Is it Louisiana?
- [40:44]
A
It's Louisiana, right?
- [40:45]
B
Yes, it is Louisiana. A Louisiana court there was essentially a band which the Supreme Court then has at least temporarily reversed. But it's there. And this could come down at any time during this election cycle. And again, shave where we are, we're at 37% approval, could shave another five points off of that.
- [41:11]
A
And on the generic ballot at the moment in that same poll, Democrats are sitting on 50% in the generic ballot and Republicans are sitting on 39, which means, sure, it's not a majority, that's not a proper majority for Democrats of votes, but it means people who would have backed Republicans are sitting on their hands. They don't like this staying at home. Why Give them another reason.
- [41:31]
B
Let's go back, turn back. Another unpopular issue, incredibly unpopular, which he again is doubling down on. So what's come back? Greenland.
- [41:45]
A
Now, we thought that it gone away, melted, frozen over.
- [41:49]
B
I mean, totally. He got out of that. I mean, and it was like I thought, oh, my God, how has he slipped out of that one? But he can't resist. We're back in on the Greenland issue. And the background of that is that, is that in order to get out of that, the kind of deal was that that Denmark, Greenland, we would have a discussion about what would happen. An ongoing role for the US and the US does have an ongoing role and does have there are all kinds of existing agreements with Greenland that gives the US Quite a bit of control, certainly over the issue that Trump has highlighted to be the specific issue that he's highlighted, which is the Arctic defense. But in these meetings, the Trump people are insisting on much greater control, essentially a grab for Greenland again. And this is now suddenly back in the news. Why would he do this to himself? I mean, this is so get inside Trump's head. And one of the interesting things inside Trump's head is that he doesn't, he doesn't know how to think like a politician. He doesn't know how to cut his losses. In effect, he sees his strength and his future as being even more Donald Trump than he has been. Always upping the ante, always being. He's a performer. And so he sees this as a performer. And I'm going to perform more vividly, more hotly. I'm going to be more me. I'm going to feed they like me, some shrinking part of the country. But nevertheless, I got elected on being Donald Trump. I will just be more Donald Trump. Never retreat.
- [44:06]
A
Never retreat. The very specific thing that The Trump people have slipped into the talks about Greenland and Denmark is that there would be a perpetual American presence or veto over an independent Greenland, which means Greenland is a possession or a territory of Denmark. And many, many people there want to be independent. I don't think they really. They're definitely not signed up to the idea that independence means America having a perpetual veto over them. So it's like he's lost the room
- [44:38]
B
again and again and again and again and again. Let's go back. There are no signs of hope in the Trump agenda, no signs of political hope for him. I think probably the only hope you can argue is in reapportionment and in his meddling with the election system. But at 37% approval, that's not gonna make any difference.
- [45:06]
A
And some of that is going to. Some of that meddling about the apportionment and about the redrawing of boundaries in some places. There are some Republicans who are saying, ooh, we might be facing a dummy mander where you manage to reapportion the boundaries, but support goes down and then you actually give the opposition more seats. So there's going to be some sort, you know, we're going to see in November, obviously. But it's.
- [45:36]
B
Again, we are at this moment, and I think it's really worthwhile to appreciate where we are that I don't think he can get out of this. I mean, we've crossed the threshold. I think I've said before that if I write this book, this is the period that I would want to write about and call it Downfall.
- [46:04]
A
A very recommended movie, by the way, if you are. I am fully familiar if you're seeking Hollywood movie. But what I was going to say was he's lonely, he's in the West Wing. He's only got Brett Ratner. He doesn't have an East Wing to go to. But the Brett Ratner Epstein connection, I think, takes us very neatly to. What I will say is another must read on your substack howl. It's part nine of the Epstein Diaries. It is called the Baby Elephant in the Room. And I don't want to spoil anything. There is a lot to talk about in this episode.
- [46:47]
B
Yeah. And it's. I mean, this is. After Epstein gets out of jail, he returns to New York as though. As though there's been no interruption in his life. And the great and good return to his. To his doorstep. And he has this ability to project that nothing at all, nothing at all has happened. Nothing at all is wrong.
- [47:21]
A
Which I know we've discussed before in Kenyan state. It's the obvious. But that's the Trumpy mentality as well, isn't it?
- [47:26]
B
Yeah, no, I think projection is very. No, and it is. And like Trump Epstein, one of the fascinating things, and one of the fascinating things to witness is that Epstein was a completely made up guy living a fantasy life. And so that's where this is in this 2010, 2011 period in which. And. And he will. And you're just vaguely aware that forces are starting to come after him again and he's kind of holding them off. And you're not entirely even aware that this is happening. And in trying to explain the context of this. And it's hard because this story has moved. So the arc of this story now everybody knows who Jeffrey Epstein is. Jeffrey Epstein is in everybody's head. And at that point no one knew who Jeffrey Epstein was. And it would be quite a number of years before they did. So it's interesting, I think, to glimpse him at this point. And then there's a part of this which I would recommend of a dinner that takes place in Jeffrey Epstein's apartment in Paris. And I will spoil none of that.
- [48:58]
A
I think you should spoil none of it. It's quite remarkable, but I think it's
- [49:02]
B
a fairly good picture of actually who Jeffrey Epstein was and how he operated.
- [49:10]
A
In this installment you actually chronicle how your relationship with Epstein was shifting and you began to see that this was a book to be written or a story to be told. And you describe it as a survivor story, which is interesting because of course we now know a different. We now know the ending. But you describe him as a gift character for the remarkable narrative that was happening in front of you. And you realized before, I think people had realized how important Epstein was to be.
- [49:44]
B
No, I mean, I've found, Yes, I found him a riveting character. I mean, I found this whole thing, would he survive? You know, desperate, trying to survive. Would he survive? And then the question of does he deserve to survive, I mean, which is another question. But all of these things come together in this guy, this made up life. I mean, I love made up characters. I mean made up people. And New York is a city of people who have just made themselves up. And with Epstein being kind of an extraordinary example of that.
- [50:24]
A
I just want to say a lot of people have been asking questions about your relationship with Epstein. And I think one of the most fascinating aspects of this is that you are chronicling almost in real time, this evolution over time.
- [50:38]
B
Yeah, no, and I know, I mean it's very hard for people to understand and appreciate what, what, you know, I mean, a writer gets into situations in which, situations in which you want to write about and, and the closer you get to these kind of, these kinds of larger than life characters, you know, I mean, it's, you know, Epstein was a, you know, think of him as just a gangster and, and, you know, gangsters are phenomenally interesting characters and phenomenal
- [51:17]
A
actually takes us back to Hollywood. A phenomenal Hollywood trope is the gangster movie installment 9 of the Epstein Diaries on Michael Wolfe's substack Howl. And we'll have a QR code up on screen so you can scan to take straight there. And I said the title is the Baby Elephant in the Room. And I'm not asking for any spoilers, but it is a genuine jaw dropper when you get to the reason why it's called that. And highly recommend. Can I just do one bit of housekeeping, Michael, before we wrap up, please? When we were discussing Kash Patel's snorkeling on an earlier episode, one of us, and I believe it was me, mistakenly said that there were soldiers who had died at Pearl Harbour. They were of course, sailors who were entombed in the USS Arizona. I just want to. Some people pointed that, rightly pointed that out in the comments. I just wanted to make that clear.
- [52:05]
B
Well, they were United States servicemen.
- [52:07]
A
They were absolutely United States servicemen and sacrificed themselves for the country. And possibly in contrast to Cash Patel, I would just say just slightly different.
- [52:18]
B
And Donald Trump.
- [52:20]
A
And Donald Trump, who of course did
- [52:24]
B
not serve bone spurs. Our incredible team. Thank you again as always, Ryan, Heather, Rachel and Neil. And we will be back on Thursday and I believe Joanna Coles will be back in her seat.
- [52:47]
A
So the good news is we have so many bebeast tier members now, there are too many names to read out and we really appreciate your support.