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- [01:02]
Michael
The wheels are coming off. And even before the war in Iran started, politically he was in a very complicated position. Minneapolis, the economy, his own numbers, terrible sinking. And then the war comes along. We're going to go from a political crisis to a political catastrophe. We're getting to the point because it's the second term in in which he's not going to be able to recover.
- [01:33]
Joanna
Michael.
- [01:35]
Michael
Joanna.
- [01:36]
Joanna
Thank goodness you're back. Even though we spoke relentlessly when you were in London, I much prefer it when you are this side of the Atlantic.
- [01:47]
Michael
And why do you think that is?
- [01:48]
Joanna
I have no idea. Actually, it makes no difference in these. Yeah, it's totally an illusion. I just prefer it. And ever since.
- [01:56]
Michael
But I am. I am back on this side of the Atlantic and I'm not happy about it, but here I am.
- [02:02]
Joanna
Okay. Well, you know what? I think viewers and listeners are going to be reassured to see your familiar stack of books behind you and Michael back behind his desk and all is well with the world. Or is it? Because as we sit here 15 minutes ago, a top US counterterrorism official has just resigned over his concerns with the ongoing war in Iran. Joe Kent says he cannot in good conscience support the ongoing war. Iran posed no imminent threat to our nation, he said in his resignation letter addressed to President Trump. And it's clear that we started this war due to pressure from Israel and its powerful American lobby. Thoughts? Have you come across Joe Kent?
- [02:52]
Michael
No, I've never heard of Joe Kent, but I believe that he works for directly reports to Tulsi Gabbard. And I would interpret this as the right wing MAGA coalition further coming apart. I mean, I think what the message that he's sending there is the Right wing, fundamentally anti Semitic. Israel is calling all the shots message.
- [03:25]
Joanna
Right.
- [03:25]
Michael
And I think that's a very real point of view on the far Maga. Right. I think it's probably Tulsi Gabbard's point of view, actually. Certainly it's Tucker Carlson's point of view. It is the point of view that I think may prove to be extremely dangerous to the President.
- [03:50]
Joanna
Okay, well, you're right. He goes on and says he supported the foreign policies Trump campaigned on over the last three presidential cycles. I'm just quoting from the Wall Street Journal here, which just dropped. But the President has veered away from his goals of avoiding never ending wars. Is this a never ending war? What do we think? What does Trump think? What's going on inside Trump's head? Interestingly, the White House haven't responded to this yet. Neither has Tulsi Gabbard. But if you're inside Trump's head, where we try to go three times a week, what electorate is happening in there?
- [04:30]
Michael
I think Trump is pissed about this. He feels that he is delivering what he promised, which is to obliterate Iran's capacities, military capacity, and he is probably getting fairly close to doing that. So I think inside his head it's like, I'm bombing, I'm bombing, I'm blowing up. I'm obliterating. What more, what more do you want from me?
- [05:07]
Joanna
I shouldn't be laughing. I love the idea that he's sitting there going, I'm obliterating. Obliterating. I thought he'd done that last summer, though. The whole point was he's supposed to have done the obliteration. We're now double, double obliterating.
- [05:20]
Michael
Pay no attention to that. In each context, it's the word obliterate.
- [05:27]
Joanna
Right? He loves saying it. He loves saying it. It's a big word for him.
- [05:31]
Michael
Just remember, always remember, constantly remember, Trump is a simple Mach. And so he went into this saying, do we have the military capacity to obliterate this regime and their military capacity? And the response was yes. Actually, the response was probably yes, but. But he doesn't. Again, the simple machine. Yes. So we do. Yes. And he'll focus on that. And that's what we have done. And. Or that's what he has done and that's what you can argue. And. And he is arguing is succeeding. The problem, of course, is the but.
- [06:21]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
Right?
- [06:21]
Michael
The but. Oil. Oil is going to, going to go up to. Probably has no ceiling to what it's going to. Going to go up to. We can obliterate all of this military capacity, but that does not mean we are going to be able to obliterate the regime. We can kill the, the top level of the regime and maybe the next level, but the regime itself is so embedded, after what are we up to 50 years, that, that it is not going away. That the only way we would be able to get rid of the machine of the regime is with soldiers, probably. But anyway. But that's on the other side. That's on the side of the. But he got to the. Yes, can we obliterate? So now he's pissed. We're obliterating. What do you want me to do? We're obliterating. We'll continue to obliterate. We'll obliterate more. And so that's where he's at now. We have obliterated everything, but we'll continue to obliterate more. And that will get him out of this. He is trusting, hoping.
- [07:39]
Joanna
Well, there's also the strange remarks that he made that he wasn't expecting the Iranians to bomb any of the Gulf states.
- [07:50]
Michael
Well, that was on the side of the butt. Yes, but he didn't listen. Of course he didn't, I don't know, show and strange. How could I know?
- [07:58]
Joanna
But it was so strange that he would admit out loud that he didn't realize they might do that. And he wasn't expecting it. I mean, you know, I know that war plans change the minute you go to war, but obviously there was no plan. And he seems completely blindsided by the fact that Iran would have any kind of response. I mean, he said, we weren't expecting that. We weren't expecting them to bomb the Gulf states.
- [08:28]
Michael
Well, there's a couple of points here. First thing you know, this is inside Trump's head because we don't believe that people that most other people covering Donald Trump are looking at this from the proper perspective, which is from inside his head, because everything comes from there. He has no real outside advisors, and it's just what comes into his head and acting on it. And it's odd that most people don't look at Trump from that point of view because it is easy to know what's going on inside his head because he tells you.
- [09:10]
Joanna
Right, right.
- [09:12]
Michael
It is not. And it is part of his odd, shall we say, charm, that he is a transparent person. Yes. Oh, my God. We didn't expect them to fire back. We were going, how could we're obliterating them? How can they fire back when we're obliterating them? I mean, Even with the.
- [09:39]
Joanna
I mean, it's so ludicrous closing the
- [09:43]
Michael
Strait of Hormuz for. I mean, essentially creating a blockade in which the world's oil cannot pass. I mean, he was actually told that that could happen, but his response was, it won't happen because we're going to obliterate them first. So they'll never get to that because they will be obliterated. So in some sense he's hooked himself to this word and it's all about obliteration. This is. We're oblique and he's going back to the generals. We're obliterating them, aren't we? And they're saying, yes, we're obliterating them.
- [10:24]
Joanna
But it's just.
- [10:26]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
So you have.
- [10:27]
Michael
You have two, you know, you have conflicting screens here. You have the obliteration screen, right? And then. And then the life goes on. Even with obliteration screen, which is what he has been unable to comprehend.
- [10:46]
Joanna
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- [12:35]
Michael
Was it, was it George W. Bush?
- [12:37]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
No.
- [12:38]
Michael
Was it Bill Clinton?
- [12:39]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
I don't want to say. I don't want to say because Barack
- [12:46]
Michael
Obama, a member of a party, a
- [12:48]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
member of a party, they have Trump derangements in a wall. But it's somebody that happens to like me, and I like that person who's a smart person, but that person said, I wish I did it.
- [13:03]
Michael
I mean, remember there. There are only four.
- [13:05]
Joanna
Right, Right. Are there four? Are there four? Are there any? There are four. There's Bill Clinton, George W. There's Barack Obama. I think that's only three, isn't it? Is there another one? Are we missing one? Jimmy Carter just died. George H. Bush has died. So I think there's only three left. Are we missing. Oh, Biden, Joe Biden. Oh, my God. Oh, sorry, sorry for Biden supporters. Sorry about that. But so then, of course, the press immediately start quizzing him about who it is and they go, is it Bill Clinton? He goes, I can't say. I can't say. And now, of course, all the ex presidents have come out and said that. None of them have talked to him about this. None of them have said this. So he's just in his own world. He would like a president to have said this to him.
- [13:57]
Michael
I mean, we should contemplate that for a moment. I mean, he can, you know, there's that old thing, and it's a joke within his circle about the friend who went to France once, Right? And that was like, okay, yes, everybody knows that's made up. But there are a lot of people who he might have known who might have gone to France.
- [14:20]
Joanna
Right.
- [14:21]
Michael
We have the same operation here, but there are only. The universe is very small.
- [14:28]
Joanna
Right.
- [14:29]
Michael
And the fact that he would tell this absolute untruth, no relationship to reality is. Well, I mean, you would think that he would truly be hung for this.
- [14:45]
Joanna
Well, and also what was so funny was watching all the media pile in on him. Was it Barack Obama? Was it Clinton? Was it Joe Biden? And Trump just completely, you know, flailing, absolutely flailing and just saying, I can't say. But he said that he wished he'd done what I'd done. I mean, it's just, it's nonsensical.
- [15:05]
Michael
But you could go, you can go back into Trump's mind and quite easily figure out how he got to this, to this point. The, the Iranians leadership are bad. They should be. It would be great for everyone. And everyone would have wanted to get them out of there if they could. So therefore they would have obliterated them if they had the, the guts to do the obliteration. But they didn't. But he does. Therefore, this they would have done exact. They would have done if they were man enough. Exactly.
- [15:45]
Joanna
Right.
- [15:45]
Michael
What he has done.
- [15:46]
Joanna
Right. Right. And of course, it worked in Venezuela
- [15:50]
Michael
in a way that absolutely confirms that he is what he is saying and that he is telling the obvious truth.
- [15:58]
Joanna
And perhaps when he goes into his White House bedroom and he closes the door and he's snuggled up with his burger dripping with juices in bed, in his mind, he is talking to the four presidents. I mean, you could imagine it's a very good script for, for a TV show where the current president talks to previous presidents and tries to channel them. I'm surprised he hasn't brought, you know, said that he in fact talked to George Washington about it. And George Washington said, I wish I had thought of bombing Iran. Wish I thought of obliterating them.
- [16:31]
Michael
I can really see this, how he got there. This whole idea of, obviously the Iranians are bad guys. Obviously in an ideal world we would get rid of them. Obviously anyone would like to be the president who has gotten rid of them. So therefore they, they, they, they must have wanted to and they must see what I'm doing and say, I wish I had done that.
- [17:05]
Joanna
Right. Totally. You can see how he made it up. But the four of them immediately said none of them had talked to him.
- [17:11]
Michael
I was just going to try to sum up his predicament at this point in time, which is he can't stay in Iran because oil is going crazy, because his base is going crazy, because only, only worse things are going to happen from here. But at the same time, he can't get out. I mean, this is the, I mean a classic, the classic problem of starting wars. So he can't get out because, because, because nothing. Fundament. The fundamental goals that he has outlined, even the conflicting goals, none of them have been met. So the regime is not only going to stay in place, but it has by all reports, become more oppressive and more draconian, is going to kill more, more protesters if they actually come into the streets to protest, which they are afraid of doing at this, at this point. Plus the, the, their nuclear capabilities have apparently not really at all been disrupted. So they will go back. This regime, no matter how much they have been obliterated, are still in a position to continue on in every way that was meant to have been obliterated. So he's just created a monstrous political problem for himself that if he leaves, if the war ends now. The Democrats will spend the all of the remaining time up until the midterms saying he accomplished nothing, he's an incompetent, he started a war, and for what? He started a war and has made only things worse than they were. So what does he do? He can't stay because those problems will increase almost on a geometric basis. Oil could go, it could literally go to $200 a barre. It will, it will provoke not only inflation, of course, but a recession at the same time. A disaster. Disaster. He will lose the Senate on the basis of this. But he can't get out because he's managed to accomplish nothing much except obliteration.
- [19:57]
Joanna
So is there panic inside Trump's head? Does Trump actually panic?
- [20:02]
Michael
No, he doesn't. He doesn't. Well, sometimes he gets angry, you know, he starts to blame people and we should talk about that because that is the next step. But he doesn't panic per se. And he, from his point of view, he is always right. I mean, panic comes, comes because you realize, oh my God, I might not be right, I might have done something wrong. That never occurs to him. He is doing what he has set out to do, obliterate. And why other people can't appreciate that is another matter altogether.
- [20:46]
Joanna
So, Michael, if you're inside Trump's head, where does Marco Rubio fit right now? Is Marco Rubio panicking? Because he must see this more clearly than Donald Trump that they underestimated, as is always the case, the Iranians response.
- [21:04]
Michael
Well, you know, Marco Rubio is a pretty classic neocon. So actually in the world, Marco Rubio as, I mean, Donald Trump is playing the Marco Rubio part. And I think probably because Marco Rubio has convinced him to play that part, he is not playing the J.D. vance part. This is. Marco Rubio is an obliterator. Let's go in, let's bomb them and use all our military might to get rid of the bad guys.
- [21:41]
Joanna
But if Marco Rubio is playing the long game here and thinking that Trump's gonna be toast after the midterms, and then that's when I muscle into, hopefully reach for the brass ring myself. This is bad for him, isn't it? I mean, how does Marco Rubio think they're going to get out of this?
- [22:00]
Michael
Not necessarily. I mean, again, Marco Rubio is a classic down the middle neocon.
- [22:07]
Joanna
No, no, I get that, but just because he's a neocon doesn't mean that the war is going to end up any better than it did for the neocons who went into Iraq.
- [22:16]
Michael
Yeah, but they don't think that the neocons are never in a position. They have never gotten to the point saying, oh, my God, we are wrong. Oh, my God, that was a big mistake to be a neocon. Oh, my God.
- [22:27]
Joanna
We don't think the neocons. You don't think the neocons realized that Iraq was.
- [22:31]
Michael
No, of course not. Nobody ever realizes. I mean, Donald Trump certainly doesn't realize he's wrong, but most everyone else, they don't realize they're wrong either. And from Marco Rubio's point of view, the world becomes an infinitely better, more promising, more manageable place without the mullahs if we take Iran out of the power matrix.
- [23:05]
Joanna
But as you've just said, it appears, at least now, and goodness knows we're only three weeks into this, so we don't want to rush to judgment, but it appears that the regime has only been hardened. We don't know who's in charge, but, you know, certainly there's nobody out protesting. They're all terrifying. You know, the Revolutionary Guard is around like ice, masked at night, riding around on motorbikes, you know, threatening to shoot anybody that's out. And Trump has said, stay in your homes until we finish bombing. So why would Marco Rubio. I understand.
- [23:40]
Michael
They think, I got it, I got it. And you're, I mean, the problem is you're trying to impose a logic that seems absolutely clear to us and to many, many, many people, on other people who do, who don't see that at all. How could they have gone on, the same people, including supported by, by, by Marco Rubio, go on to fight a war in Iraq for how many years?
- [24:13]
Joanna
Too many years. And leading to.
- [24:14]
Michael
It doesn't, it doesn't make these. So we're just at a contradiction. We're at a contradiction on the right. We're in a contradiction in how the American establishment has for so long seen things. We're in a contradiction within, within the close circle of Trump support. So I don't know what, what I mean, Marco Rubio is, I think, feeling like everything is going his way at this point in time. He owns Donald Trump, much to the concern and consternation of the other people who thought they owned Donald Trump.
- [25:04]
Joanna
So interesting. So interesting. Well, J.D. vance must be just sitting there thinking, well, it's very noticeable that he's remained quiet and he's now been given some sort of benefits fraud job to look into, which seems much smaller than what is going on on the world stage. So two things you mentioned that Trump is now going to start blaming people. We saw Kristi Noem lose her job. We saw Rick Grenell lose his job. He was running the Kennedy Center. Is that what you mean?
- [25:38]
Michael
Or do you think that is we're going to get to the, you know, we're at the. You have a problem, fire people, you're fired. Which he has not done. Which he has assiduously avoided doing for since the beginning of this term. He has not fired anyone. As a. As a point of strategy, of almost of ideology. I'm not going to fire anyone because that would be giving into outside pressure. These people are the people I've put in the job, therefore they must be the right person for the job because I put them into the job. That's what's in Trump's head. But that becomes dislodged from Trump's head when he feels that someone should be blamed. Things are going wrong, therefore someone should be blamed. Clearly not him. So what do you do when the reflex begins? I mean, Kristi Noem is not being blamed for the war in Iran, but she seems to be blamed, at least in part for Minneapolis.
- [26:53]
Joanna
Well, and also the ad campaign. Right. The quarter of a billion dollar ad campaign, which Trump seems to have wised up to a bit later on than perhaps others did. And he realizes that there's some sort of level of corruption going on there and that there is a huge commission coming off the top of that ad campaign.
- [27:11]
Michael
Yeah, I'm not. So, you know, Trump doesn't exactly work like that. It's more of a thing like blame. Blame sort of focuses. You become a person surrounded by blame. I mean, he just turns off of you and feels that you are part of his problem. Well, he has to get rid of you. Is there a specific thing? He doesn't really deal in specifics. It doesn't really, you know, the advertising campaign, the grif, corruption. I mean, these are not really things that particularly upset him.
- [27:53]
Joanna
So I thought the whole point was that Trump hated it when other people in his circle made money off him. I thought that was one of his.
- [28:01]
Michael
No, no, that, that, that is a. Or profit off of him. And she would have profited off of him from. From the publicity. Yeah, I mean, that's part of it, but it is more the blame. You become a person who he can blame. Does he? It's. I think it's partly that he senses your weakness. It's suddenly he just doesn't like your smell, really. I mean, this is all on his part, visceral. So Rick Grenell, for instance, is, has been incredibly loyal to, loyal to Trump. Trump. I mean, Trump has an issue with Grinnell because Grinnell is gay. But nevertheless, I mean, that's why. So Grinnell wanted to be the Secretary of State, but he couldn't be Secretary of State because he's gay. What do you do with a gay person? Well, the performing arts. I mean, this is literally, again, the simple machine.
- [29:00]
Joanna
Although he was in Germany, he was the ambassador to Germany. And Trump won, wasn't he?
- [29:06]
Michael
Yes, he was around.
- [29:07]
Joanna
He.
- [29:08]
Michael
And let's, we should, we should get to this because Rick Grinnell was a, was a Jared Kushner person. So, I mean, Jared had, he was, Jared was kind of protecting Rick Grinnell. And, and Rick Grinnell is a, you know, he has been a, you know, a pretty effective guy at insinuating himself into, into all kinds of frank foreign policy portfolios and situations. I mean, that's why this is a kind of sort of humiliating to be put into the performing arts, obviously. But that's not why he's out of there. He's out of there now because, because this has, this has somehow for, for it, it just, it, it, it doesn't. He. The Trump Kennedy center has failed to be the Trump Kennedy Center.
- [30:02]
Joanna
Right.
- [30:02]
Michael
And, and they're now having to close this down. So, again, the blame thing has started. So what I think the point to concentrate on here or the theme should be that blame, the need to blame, not for any specific reason, but. But because he feels, he feels if he doesn't blame someone, the blame might come to him. So I think we're going to start to see more and more people fired. And just to recall the first administration, which was a revolving door of people constantly being pushed out. So to keep our eye, we're beginning to see the blame. And what that also says is that he doesn't have an enemy at this point that rattles him. And, you know, I mean, I think that he probably had hoped the Iranians would be his enemy. He could focus. He could focus there, but he doesn't. And we've just seen some Newsom things. I think he's trying to revive Newsom.
- [31:17]
Joanna
Yeah, I was going to talk to you about the Newsom thing, which is absolutely fascinating. We have a clip of that as he goes after Gavin Newsom, which feels like a complete, you know, lateral attack. Zero reason to go after him right now. His book that he's been around promoting, which talks about his dyslexia. This is Gavin Newsom talking about his dyslexia. He's been out for a month at this point, but obviously Trump has decided to focus on it as a distraction. Can we play the clip?
- [31:50]
Trump Impersonator/Commentator
Going to jail. That's how crazy it's gotten with a low IQ person, you know, because Gavin Newscomb has admitted that he is a. That he has learning disabilities. Honestly, I'm all for people with learning disabilities, but not for my president. I don't want. I think a president should not have learning disabilities. Okay. And I know it's highly controversial to say such a horrible thing. The President of the United States. United States, Gavin Newscomb, admitted that he has learning disabilities, dyslexia. Everything about him is dumb. But then he looked at the audience and said, but I'm smarter than you, or something like that. That was pretty silly. So now, on top of everything else, I call him a racist because it happened to be a black audience. I will tell you this. I think it was the worst the. In I've ever seen of any human being in my life. Okay, anybody else have any questions?
- [32:46]
Joanna
Very interesting. So the journalists actually, in that moment, don't take the red meat he's just thrown to them and goes straight back to Iran. But it was a very clear attack on Gavin Newsom and learning disabilities. And actually, it's quite a good line. I don't want my president to have learning disabilities. Of course, from a president who very clearly has all sorts of learning issues. I mean, you can't fault the irony Germany.
- [33:13]
Michael
But let me just go back to the first administration when in those first months and everyone, Everyone who had come into the very few of the people who had come into the White House actually had any kind of relationship with, with Donald Trump. So they were all trying to figure this out. But a, A, a real focus of concern and of fear became the level of which Donald Trump could or could not read. In other words, was he. And this was kind of constantly. Was he actually illiterate?
- [34:01]
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- [34:30]
Michael
he would just wave things away. You would give him something printed, you know, a couple of lines, wave it away. Was he semi literate? What was the problem here? There was some clear problem with his ability to, to focus on and to absorb written information.
- [34:50]
Joanna
Well, and it's interesting because most presidents read books, right? Think of how many books Bill Clinton read. I mean, maybe less so George W. Bush, but certainly Obama. And, you know, they make an enormous. Well, not an enormous thing. But books are useful. They're full of history, they're full of information. And there's no question that Trump is voraciously unread.
- [35:15]
Michael
You didn't just say books are useful, did you?
- [35:17]
Joanna
I did just say books are useful. But you wouldn't think so. You wouldn't think so from the way Donald Trump behaves. But there's no question he's voraciously unread.
- [35:27]
Michael
No. Well, I mean, I mean, literally, this, this was a point of, of people had to. Around them, had to deal with this. And the question was, and these were not hyperbolic questions. This was a question of, okay, there's something wrong with his, with his ability to, the way he relates to words when they are written down. What do we do about that?
- [35:56]
Joanna
So he may well be dyslexic himself, which is why he's focused on Gavin Newsom's dyslexia.
- [36:02]
Michael
Yes. Or illiterate. He just decided he was never gonna learn to read because why should he?
- [36:09]
Joanna
Michael, how can you say that when he's written the Art of the Deal? How can you say that maybe you can write, but he can't read.
- [36:16]
Michael
We actually know who wrote the Art of the Deal. Tony Schwartz wrote the Art of the Deal. And Tony Schwartz says, oh, often wondered if Donald Trump ever read the Art of the Deal.
- [36:26]
Joanna
And I think he's also regrets that. He regrets writing it. Right. You know, it's one of his views.
- [36:33]
Michael
I mean, I, you know, I've known Tony for a long time, and that's a, you know, I mean, the poor guy, he never, never, never expected Donald Trump to become the President of the United States. And who did? Of course.
- [36:46]
Joanna
Right. I was going to say he's not alone there. So. So Iran is not going well for him at home. It's certainly true that the US does appear to have obliterated a large part of Iranian hardware. But the Straits of Hormuz are a problem. MAGA is raising its head over this. Tucker Carlson is barking into the wind about it. We've got the first resignation and Trump is beginning to blame people.
- [37:16]
Michael
You know, and this news about Susie Wiles, I think is relevant here because, Because, I mean, Susie Wiles is, to the extent that this administration was different, this Trump administration has been different from the last Trump administration. That there is, however shallow, nevertheless, a, a certain, A certain order of organization that has, that has
- [37:47]
Joanna
allowed him to do as much as he's done. Right.
- [37:50]
Michael
You know, I, I think been the, the key difference between, between this administration and the last. And that has to do with Susie Wiles. And, and I think, you know, if she's not, she's sick and no longer. All of her attention is not directed at what's going on in the West Wing. That's gonna be a, that's gonna be a. We're gonna see the effects of that.
- [38:21]
Joanna
Okay. And we should just. For people who haven't followed the Suzy Wiles news, Suzy Wiles announced yesterday, or actually the president announced for her, that she has breast cancer. So they've caught it early and the prognosis is apparently good. But as you say, she will probably feel very distracted. And for anybody who wants to know more about what Susie Wiles impact is in this second Trump administration, we did a special about Susie Wiles on Saturday. Actually a sort of deep dive into the significance of her and the limits of her role, which is really worth listening to, if I do say so myself. That sounded a bit grandiose, didn't it? I didn't mean it like that. But Susie Wiles becomes a person of
- [39:05]
Michael
even more intrigue in the somewhat different way that Susie Wiles is a really interesting story. She's an interesting story because she doesn't really fit into the Trump, to the Trump orbit and, and, and universe. And, and the very fact that she is not of the, of the Trump piece has allowed her to, to, to bring, to hold this White House together.
- [39:37]
Joanna
Well, there were a lot of comments on Saturday when we dropped the podcast from people saying, how is it also that Susie Wiles survived with the look she has? Because as we know, women go into the White House, Kristi Noem being the perfect example, looking relatively normal and very quickly end up having a MAGA makeover. And Susie Wiles has remained determinedly her son. He referred to her as a refrigerator. But she's somewhat matronly looking and resisted the big eyelashes. She doesn't appear to have had tons of filler or certainly not the big lips. She's not gone for the hair extensions. And I think the fact that she's a grandmother is neither here nor there. Cause a lot of the women around Trump, around Mar. A Lago, around Bedminster have all gone for that MAGA look. But Susie's remained her own person in that regard.
- [40:30]
Michael
Yeah, no, I mean, I think that that has, that really spotlights the thing that is most interesting about her and ultimately most valuable to this White House.
- [40:43]
Joanna
Right. And of course, she used to work for Marco Rubio, so he may be anxious about her health too. Anyway, I'm sure she has the best possible medical attentions that she can get. So the other person we should talk to who may also get blamed, and there seems to be some distance going on now between the White House and Make America Healthy Again is of course, RFK Jr. Well, let me go out
- [41:14]
Michael
on a limb here, and I think that he's gonna get fired.
- [41:17]
Joanna
Oh, you do you think he's gonna get fired before the midterms?
- [41:21]
Michael
I do, I do. I think he's showing. All the numbers are showing him to be a clear liability, that the vax thing is. The vax thing is. The anti vax thing is not a winning position. It's a MAGA position, but it's one of the positions that really isolates MAGA from the rest of the electorate. So. And he's associated with that. I don't think Trump wants to be associated with it. And the way to get out from under is to get RFK Jr out of the administration.
- [42:01]
Joanna
And do you think that's a power trip for Donald Trump to fire a Kennedy?
- [42:11]
Michael
I think he would prefer not to fire a Kennedy. I think that this is just too stark and everybody in the White House knows it, including Susie Wiles, who has never been a fan of RFK Jr. Nobody's been a fan of his actually in the Trump circle.
- [42:29]
Joanna
Well, he was useful at the moment to bring in independent voters when. Because of course, just reminding people he was running his own campaign that was financed by the ex wife of Google founder co founder Sergey Brin. And she financed his campaign with their divorce settlement after she'd gotten divorced from Sergey Brin because she had an alleged affair with Elon Musk. So again, another fascinating story of one of Trump's cabinet members.
- [42:58]
Michael
No, and it was actually a very precise thing. As soon as Kamala Harris there had been a large number of voters from both of Biden voters and Trump voters who had gravitated toward RFK up upwards of some polls as as many as. As 17% of the of likely voters were had gravitated to RFK. When Kamala Harris became the nominee, almost all of the Democratic voters went back. They, they were, they were sort of. They were more anti Biden voters than they were pro rfk. Voters, they went back to Harris. Therefore. But the, but the, the anti Trump voters were still with RFK Jr. So the administration, they, they literally had to sit down and make a deal with rfk. It was like, okay, we're going to give you this significant health portfolio because we need you to drop out of the race.
- [44:04]
Joanna
Well, and I saw that he just had rotator cuff surgery which doesn't speak very highly of all those pull ups he's been doing at the airport where he takes his shirt off and suddenly there he goes. Anyway, I hope he also gets excellent medical attention on his rotator cuff. So we also have a court that's put RFK's vax plan on ice. So even though there are various places that have stopped vaccinating their children and you're certainly seeing a rise in measles in the Carolinas in particular, it looks like the courts are going to step in anyway. So he will be muzzled by the law.
- [44:53]
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- [45:12]
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- [45:24]
Michael
don't think anything looks good. It's not a good look. And that's what Trump is going to start to say. That's the thing that's going to start to go around in his head.
- [45:32]
Joanna
Okay, not good. Look, so he's got rid of Nome, he's got rid of Rick Grenell. You think RFK Jr. Might be next? Who's really in charge here?
- [45:44]
Michael
But let's set this broader thing. I think things are, the wheels are coming off. I mean in so many ways. And even before the war in, in Iran's started politically, he was in a very complicated position. More and more and more, Minneapolis, the economy that won't, that won't budge. You know, his, his inability to read the room when it comes to putting his name on buildings and, and building what?
- [46:18]
Joanna
The triumphant arch, the ballroom?
- [46:22]
Michael
No, and I mean his own numbers. Terrible sinking, sinking Fast. And then the war comes along, and the war comes along and is going to. So we're going to go from a political crisis to a political catastrophe. That's where we are now in the second year of the second Trump term. It is, you know, we're getting to the point, because it's the second term in which he's not going to be able to recover.
- [46:57]
Joanna
Yeah. It's interesting. I had had tea yesterday with a Democratic congressman, and he was saying that some of the Republican congresspeople he know, he knows, want to lose the House because they're desperate for a reckoning on Trump, and they hate him. They know that he can still have the power to unseat them and primary them, but what they actually want is a reckoning for the Republican Party, and especially if they lose the Senate, too, then Trump begins to feel like he's in the rearview mirror. And actually, he was saying that Republican congressmen actually text him things he can use and raise against them.
- [47:38]
Michael
I always feel that this is what Democratic congressmen have said about their Republican colleagues for many years now. And my. My conclusion is that actually Democrats don't talk to Republicans in Congress. So therefore, it's all projection and wishfulness.
- [48:00]
Joanna
Well, it may be all projection and wishfulness, but it has the ring of truth about it that we know and you are always pointing out. And every now and then, we see small flashes of resistance to Trump, that he has hijacked the Republican Party. There are many people in there who hate him, who don't want to put their head above the parrot because their families have said, for goodness sake, don't bring his ire upon us. I don't want to have to deal with all that social media hate. I don't want lunatics turning up at our gate because none of these people have security for the most part. But if he loses, then they have an opportunity to regroup.
- [48:40]
Michael
I have never felt they wanted to get rid of Donald Trump. Quite the opposite. I think they don't know who they are as a political party. I think they know that they sink without Donald Trump. And however, Donald Trump complicates their lives, they still have jobs because of him.
- [49:00]
Joanna
All right, so, Michael, you've talked about the power of Jared Kushner in this second administration. We talked about the fact he'd raised $2 billion from the Saudis. And you think that he's still very important.
- [49:17]
Michael
I mean, I have always observed Jared Kushner's influence over his father in law. I think that Jared Kushner was really the only person who survived and prospered in the first administration. And I was curious that he didn't take a job in this second administration and yet has become so central and powerful in it. I mean, I really think that he is the son in law who ate the father in law.
- [49:53]
Joanna
And they, I mean, he doesn't look big enough to have eaten the father in law. He's almost concave at this point.
- [50:01]
Michael
No, but nevertheless, you know, he's like one of those snakes and then you see them, they devour this. Yes. You know, the, the, I mean, his positioning. He is the chief advisor and the chief negotiator on all things, well, on so many foreign policy things, but certainly on all things in the, in the Middle East. And he is been able to see the Middle east in a way that Trump admires, which is what's in it for me. And you know, and there's a, there's a, there's a kind of thing, there's a Trumpian thing, and I think a Kushner thing too is, is we do what we have been. We are selfless in terms of the, of, of taking on this civic responsibility, but why shouldn't we also profit off of that? And Jared raised after the first administration, even Trump was, you know, again, even Trump seemed to seem to not survive the first administration. But Jared came out of it having raised $2 billion literally from his work in the White House and to set up this investment for fund. Now in the middle of being the chief advisor and chief negotiator on all matters Middle east, having been really one of the pivotal, and maybe the pivotal voice on what happens in this war, in the middle of this, he's out raising $5 billion from sources in the Middle East.
- [51:56]
Joanna
So is this for another fund? So the first 2 billion went to Affinity's first fund. Right. Is this for a second fund?
- [52:03]
Michael
Well, I assume, but yes. So, and, and you know, obviously this is just part and parcel of the, the greater Trump family's extraordinary efforts to monetize their, this last term that they will have in the White House. But I think that even beyond, I mean, this is, this goes beyond the money because this goes directly to the policy. This goes to, to the Middle east becomes a function of, of Jared's ambitions to, you know, effectively reconstruct the Middle East.
- [52:50]
Joanna
Wow. Well, I'm very excited that spring is on the way. This, There is at least sun. You missed a very cold spell while you were in London. How was the weather there?
- [52:59]
Michael
Great.
- [53:00]
Joanna
Good. And did you meet people who Are
- [53:01]
Michael
listening for the weather now. That's climate change. Means. Means London is.
- [53:08]
Joanna
Did you get any sense that people in London are listening to Inside Trump's Head?
- [53:13]
Michael
Yeah, it's all over the place. I was stopped constantly.
- [53:17]
Joanna
Well, by people saying, get out. Get out of our town.
- [53:22]
Michael
They say this. I mean, it's always embarrassing because they say, thank you for your service.
- [53:27]
Joanna
Well, Michael, I'm very glad you're back. Thank you for your service. I hope people will share this podcast with their friends. I'm always forgetting to say that at the beginning because I'm so excited to talk to you and we get straight into it, but please, you know, don't forget to comment on this podcast. Subscribe to the podcast. Subscribe to the Daily Beast. Share it with your friends. And we'll be back on Thursday. And I'm hoping you're gonna be in the studio on Thursday with me.
- [53:52]
Michael
And I'm hoping I'll be there, too.
- [53:54]
Joanna
Good. Well, unless there's gonna be a snowfall between now and then, I hope that nothing, that nothing stops us.
- [54:01]
Michael
I look forward to seeing you.
- [54:02]
Joanna
Would you like. Would you like. Good. Would you like to thank our.
- [54:06]
Michael
Our team, Our team, without whom they really are. Great. Actually, I sound like Trump now. Great.
- [54:17]
Joanna
There's no team like them. Also, what people didn't hear was our very patient producer trying to figure out why your microphone and headphones weren't working this morning. So for people that write in and say, why. Why isn't Michael wearing headphones? We don't quite know the issue. There was an issue. But hopefully we.
- [54:37]
Michael
We will fix the issue.
- [54:38]
Joanna
We'll fix the issue.
- [54:39]
Michael
Someone will.
- [54:40]
Joanna
But you'll be in the studio on Thursday, so that will help. And I just wanted to remind people we have a brand new, brilliant podcast with Tom Sykes called the Royalist. And Tom's connections are a little bit like your connections in the White House. His are behind the walls of Buckingham palace and Windsor Castle and Sandringham. And he has incredible scoops and insight and perspect perspective on the royal family. He really is uncensored in a way that a lot of the British reporters covering the royal family can't be. So I highly recommend it. It's called the Royalist wherever you get your podcasts. So the good news is we have so many Beast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Support. Thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray, Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.