Pod Save’s Jon Lovett: This Is Trump’s Biggest Con

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast: Episode Summary Title: Pod Save’s Jon Lovett: This Is Trump’s Biggest Con
Hosts: Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee
Release Date: January 23, 2025

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Introduction to Inauguration Weekend

[02:00] Joanna Coles:
Joanna Coles opens the episode by welcoming listeners to the podcast, setting the stage for a deep dive into the recent inauguration weekend. She shares her personal experience dealing with the harsh weather conditions, emphasizing the challenges faced during the event.

[02:10] Samantha Bee:
Samantha Bee introduces a recent hot mic incident involving a translator who was caught expressing frustration about the inauguration proceedings, adding humor to the discussion.

[03:04] Joanna Coles:
Joanna recounts her trek through inclement weather, highlighting the logistical nightmares of navigating Washington D.C. during the inauguration. She mentions notable figures like Kellyanne Conway and describes the scene as sparse compared to previous inaugurations.

Fashion and Social Commentary

[06:07] Joanna Coles:
The hosts critique Melania Trump's inauguration attire, specifically her Oqueisi Pierre dress. Joanna speculates that the dress may symbolize Melania's discomfort and subtly "redact" herself from Trump's public persona.

[07:09] Samantha Bee:
Samantha adds humor by suggesting the hat Melania wore might have hidden razor blades, referencing Jimmy Kimmel's commentary comparing it to a border wall.

[08:43] Joanna Coles:
Joanna expresses concern over Melania's discomfort in her role as First Lady, suggesting she may have underestimated the challenges of the position.

Tribute to Cecile Richards

[19:45] Samantha Bee:
Samantha pays tribute to Cecile Richards, a prominent figure in women's reproductive rights who tragically passed away before Trump's inauguration. She highlights Richards' unwavering commitment to her cause despite significant political opposition.

[20:32] Joanna Coles:
Joanna reflects on Cecile Richards' legacy, emphasizing her role in fighting for reproductive rights and her impact on young women. She shares a poignant moment discussing Richards' refusal to back down from her principles, even when pressured by the Clintons.

John Lovett Joins the Conversation

[23:15] Joanna Coles:
Joanna introduces John Lovett, co-founder of Crooked Media and host of Pod Save America, as the week's "Beast of the Week." They welcome him to the Adirondack studio.

[27:04] John Lovett:
John shares his disappointment with Donald Trump's presidency, discussing the collective struggle to comprehend and respond to Trump's leadership. He highlights failures in the media and Democratic strategy that have left the political landscape adrift.

[28:46] Samantha Bee:
Samantha agrees with John's assessment, emphasizing the need for Democrats to stay calm and prioritize important issues amidst the chaos.

Key Discussions with John Lovett

Birthright Citizenship

[30:27] Joanna Coles:
Joanna introduces the topic of birthright citizenship, questioning its potential challenges under Trump's administration.

[30:40] John Lovett:
John dismantles Trump's arguments against birthright citizenship, clarifying the constitutional basis and exposing the misconceptions surrounding undocumented immigrants and their legal status.

[31:55] Samantha Bee:
Samantha underscores the economic factors influencing decisions about abortion, aligning with Cecile Richards' advocacy and stressing the critical nature of reproductive rights.

TikTok Ban and National Security

[38:19] John Lovett:
John critiques the bipartisan efforts to ban TikTok, labeling it as a symbolic yet ineffective measure. He argues that the real issue lies in the intersection of social media and politics, leading to societal discord.

[47:21] Joanna Coles:
Joanna highlights the rushed legislative process behind the TikTok ban, pointing out the lack of transparency and concrete explanations provided to the public.

Democratic Strategy and Media Failures

[33:35] Samantha Bee:
Samantha criticizes the Democratic approach during the inauguration, advocating for a more assertive and unconventional response to counter Trump's narrative.

[36:55] Joanna Coles:
Joanna raises the need for charismatic Democratic leaders who can effectively communicate and counteract Trump's media dominance.

[40:46] Samantha Bee:
Samantha discusses the pervasive influence of social media in holding people accountable, while also acknowledging the anxiety it causes among ordinary individuals.

Looking Forward: Democratic Leadership and Strategy

[54:49] John Lovett:
John reflects on the absence of Barack Obama's unifying leadership in the current Democratic landscape. He emphasizes the need for a new generation of leaders who can inspire and mobilize a broad coalition for change.

[57:08] Samantha Bee:
Samantha expresses fatigue and cynicism among voters, questioning the effectiveness of traditional political engagement and the overwhelming focus on Trump's persona.

[57:59] John Lovett:
John advocates for Democrats to define and articulate a clear vision of the future they want to build, beyond merely reacting to Trump's policies. He stresses the importance of outlining specific goals and maintaining consistent, persuasive communication.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Samantha Bee [02:10]:
  "Oh, did you not hear it? There was a hot mic incident..."

• Joanna Coles [06:07]:
  "I thought the outfit would have been great without the blanket thing across..."

• John Lovett [27:04]:
  "It does feel like collectively we're all just sort of watching this, sort of mouths agape..."

• John Lovett [30:40]:
  "The 14th Amendment is completely clear. It says if you're born here, you're a citizen..."

• John Lovett [38:19]:
  "Regardless of the owner, whether it's an American billionaire... you throw a bunch of digital throwing stars and nunchucks and axes... Americans, they'll bludgeon each other with them."

• Samantha Bee [33:35]:
  "I really objected to them just sort of sitting passively and smiling... Do something differently."

• John Lovett [41:56]:
  "It's about criticism. There are examples of overreach and people trying to get people fired... but it's not going to lead me to elect Donald Trump over it."

• John Lovett [48:32]:
  "The day before, Amy Klobuchar doing the welcome and she made reference to the importance of the peaceful transfer of power..."

• John Lovett [55:43]:
  "The problem is not who owns it. The problem is what happens when social media and politics meet and we simply are not up to it."

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Concluding Thoughts

The episode navigates through the tumultuous inauguration weekend, highlighting personal anecdotes, fashion critiques, and significant political commentary. Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee, joined by John Lovett, dissect the current political climate, emphasizing the need for strategic Democratic leadership and effective communication to counteract Trump's influence. The conversation underscores the challenges facing the Democratic Party, media shortcomings, and the societal impact of social media on political discourse.

Listeners are encouraged to stay informed and engaged through platforms like Pod Save America, with a call to action urging support for initiatives aimed at reclaiming political ground in the upcoming elections.

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For More Information:
To stay updated with the podcast and support The Daily Beast, visit thedailybeast.com and subscribe to their membership podcast.

Transcript

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[Joanna Coles]

Welcome to the Daily Beast Podcast. I'm Joanna Coles. I'm the Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm Samantha Bee, Chief Content Officer of International hot mics with journalists talking smack about Donald Trump.

[Joanna Coles]

What are you talking about?

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, did you not hear it? There was a hot mic incident, Donald. They were showing the inauguration stuff in Germany and the translator who was translating all of their bullshit got caught on a hot mic saying in German, how long are we gonna stick with this shit? It's my favorite.

[Joanna Coles]

There is nothing better. Can you say that in German?

[Samantha Bee]

Okay, I'm gonna attempt it. Oh no, I'll do it at the end. That'll be the treat. I'll do it at the End.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Samantha Bee]

All right.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. So every week, this is the podcast from the Daily Beast, where we dish about the people and the stories that everybody's talking about. Like, this week, we're diving into inauguration weekend. A soggy sequenfest that involved me popping my rain poncho. Sherry. I actually put on one of those plastic things. It was a desperate moment.

[Samantha Bee]

Why did you have a plastic rain poncho in your purse? Who slipped that into your purse?

[Joanna Coles]

Because it was absolutely pouring with sort of sleety rain. You couldn't get an Uber because the entire city was closed down. There were sort of metal fences everywhere. If you ordered an Uber, you had to walk for. First of all, it was gonna take 25 minutes to come. Then it was gonna take you 25 minutes to get there.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

And I was coming out of one of the endless parties, which is the sort of scene there, and Kellyanne Conway was in front of me and was dealing with the same issues. So she took a pedal cab, which she took the last pedal cab in naam. That's how I thought of it. And I put on my rain poncho. There were no umbrellas to be found.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow.

[Joanna Coles]

And I trudged 25 minutes in my little suede boots through the snow to get from the W to the Jefferson Hotel.

[Samantha Bee]

Kellyanne Conway took the last cap. She snatched it.

[Joanna Coles]

She. She was in front of me. To be fair. She was in front of me.

[Samantha Bee]

Was she wearing a little plastic rain poncho with her Paddington Bear outfit?

[Joanna Coles]

She was not, but she was better prepared than I was. She obviously has much more familiarity with the. With the D.C. weather.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

But if you caught Monday's Creep out awards show, and much like the Golden Globes, the Brutalist also won, you already know what's coming. A takedown of Ivanka's United Emirates steward. A third outfit.

[Samantha Bee]

We call them flight attendants now.

[Joanna Coles]

Joanna, I wanted to say. Well, I was sort of shouting chicken or fish? Chicken or fish? Or do you want the vegan option? In which case you should have ordered it last week with your pre order.

[Samantha Bee]

I have a controversial opinion. I kind of liked that little dribbly hat you did. It was like a little kind of comma dribbling off the side of her. I thought it was cute.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought the outfit would have been great without the sort of blanket thing across. I thought there was too much fabric. I do think Yvonne could dress as well. And I thought it was just didn't work. And there were so many memes on social media about her looking like the handmaid Style character from the Handmaid Style.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, that's so true. Oh, I never saw those.

[Joanna Coles]

It's because Peacock Green is in. As I'm just going to demonstrate this by my scarf.

[Samantha Bee]

Teal is everywhere.

[Joanna Coles]

Teal is in. Peacock Green is in. We're also going to be looking at a debrief of Trump's first executive actions and a preview of what's to come in this so called fermented revolution. Sam couldn't bear to watch any of it. I couldn't bear to look away. I wanted to see everything.

[Samantha Bee]

I was worried about you in D.C. this weekend. Did you go snowblind from all of that white flesh with spaghetti straps pressing in?

[Joanna Coles]

So here's the problem. I took the weather advisory very seriously. I went down dressed as Nanook of the north and when I got there, people were bare legged. Bit like John Fetterman. I'm actually not talking about John Fetterman. Then we can talk about his outfit later. A lot of spaghetti straps, a lot of, you know, very high sandals. Lauren Sanchez even forgot to put a shirt on.

[Samantha Bee]

She really did.

[Joanna Coles]

I am very concerned about her that she may have a chesty cold this morning.

[Samantha Bee]

She may have that just that heavy feeling in between your two boobs where you're just like, here comes the cough and it's going to be a deep one.

[Joanna Coles]

Shout out to Mark Zuckerberg for taking a look and then grinning and then it being caught on the best meme. Wow. Sans dute of the entire. The entire day.

[Samantha Bee]

Just the stage. Just a little. Just a little paper doll's house of wealthy people. Beautiful.

[Joanna Coles]

I did have one thought about Melania's dress, the Ove Pierre dress that she had for the inauguration ball.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay. The black and white. Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, the white sort of tube dress with the sort of black. I thought it looked like she was sending another signal that actually she was redacting her body parts to Trump. So she's got like a huge zigzag across all the bits that I'm sure Trump would want to grab and she was sort of redacting herself.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, wow. Wow. That is really. That is deep. That's actually deep.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought that was the signal. I didn't think she was signaling. The Hamburglar with the hat on.

[Samantha Bee]

The hat. I just thought it was a strategic move to keep him away from her face. All they could do was air kiss. I wondered if the brim had razor blades on it.

[Joanna Coles]

Curly razor blades. I loved Jimmy Kimmel's comment that it was. Was it Jimmy Kimmel or was it Jimmy Fallon. They're all called Jimmy. That it was her own border wall.

[Samantha Bee]

I like that. Yep. It was very Spy versus Spy. And I. And I liked it. I redacted redacting her body parts that he's not allowed to. I thought it was just more like a redacted document. But I like your deeper level of thinking.

[Joanna Coles]

I think she's redacting her body and it might be subversive or it might be unconscious. And I did think. I know we're going to disagree about this, and I do understand what Isaac Mizrahi was saying a couple of weeks ago about Melania looking like she's been dressed and that she can't. We only see her standing up or sitting down. We don't see her living in these clothes. I did think she looked really elegant. And I think the hat with the brim was to protect her in the way that I think Anna Wintour uses those big bug glasses that she wears because people are really staring at them a lot and really staring at Melania. And I think the hat actually gives her protection.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, great. Well, if she had less repellent ideas and wasn't married to one of the worst people in the world, she perhaps wouldn't need protection.

[Joanna Coles]

But I sort of think with Melania, be careful what you wish for. She must have dreamed of being married to Donald Trump. What she didn't dream of was being first Lady. And she so obviously feels uncomfortable in the role.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't. I don't have. I don't pity her. I don't pity her at all. I. I read the book. I read the book.

[Joanna Coles]

You did read the book. Which she didn't even do. She read.

[Samantha Bee]

Which she did not do. That entire book was a redacted document. So. So I don't. I don't. I don't hold too much sympathy in my heart.

[Joanna Coles]

I did like the bit where Donald Trump talks about how she. About those heels. Cause she was in, I think the 120 millimeter Manolos, which are pretty intense.

[Samantha Bee]

Did you enjoy watching Donald Trump dance with that soldier?

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, that poor soldier. She looked so nervous. She looked like she might be thrown. Thrown in jail if she didn't look like she was really getting into it and he was sort of clinging onto her. Whereas Melania looked like she was having a great time dancing with the soldier who had rhythm, unlike her husband. He should not be allowed out loose on a dance floor. Donald Trump.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, but I did enjoy watching him dance around with a sword cutting that extremely gaudy cake. Oh, my God, that cake. Now, I love a sheet cake, but that was too much for me.

[Joanna Coles]

That was a lot of cake. That was a lot of cake. So how are you on your mental health?

[Samantha Bee]

Mm. Oh, fine. Yes, fine.

[Joanna Coles]

Good.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm being very vigilant about not losing my ass every time something crazy happens. I'm actually being calm and measured about it, and I'm caring about the things that I care about, and that's all anyone can really do.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, so I think I learned something very interesting about you this week, which is you are not a cleanse person.

[Samantha Bee]

I am not a cleanse person, and I think that I was pretty upfront about that. But I broke the cleanse within, I don't know, half a day. I had sausages for dinner.

[Joanna Coles]

I know. My favorite.

[Samantha Bee]

You are not supposed to eat sausages.

[Joanna Coles]

My favorite text of the week was you saying you discovered you were on a sausage cleanse. We both tried so hard. We tried very hard to do the chroma cleanse.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

And I failed at the inauguration. The truth is, you can't just drink things and eat porridge when you are covering an inauguration. You need sustenance.

[Samantha Bee]

You need protein, and I would say.

[Joanna Coles]

That in the form of meat.

[Samantha Bee]

Individually. I did like all the packets. I actually thought they were all delicious and quite good.

[Joanna Coles]

I loved the soups.

[Samantha Bee]

Couldn't take them sequentially over the course of three days. It's impossible. It's more like a side dish to the meal that I'm eating.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. I wanted to be the kind of person that can travel with packets of food in my bag. Did you travel water? Yeah. I took them with me. And then the minute I arrived in dc, I was hungry, and part of me thought, oh, good, I can have the super porridge that I've brought with me, which I quite like, actually. But then I saw a shake Shack, and I was like, oh, no, I think I want a Shake Shack.

[Samantha Bee]

I have to. You need fortification for things like that.

[Joanna Coles]

Fortification.

[Samantha Bee]

Notifications.

[Joanna Coles]

And it was too cold for. For. Yeah, Matcha.

[Samantha Bee]

It's too cold for. It's too cold for a broth. You went to D.C. tell me which parties you went to. Tell me why you were there. I mean, I didn't even watch it on tv. I just watched clips. I couldn't bear it. So what made you go?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, of course I want to go. It's a new president coming in. I'm running a journalistic organization. We're an independent media organization. I want to be there and understand. I was surprised there Weren't more crowds there. I know there was a line to get inside the rally, but I had been to the second inauguration for Barack Obama and the place was teeming. And the thing that made it challenging was just the logistics because it felt like the whole city was closed down. So there were metal fences to sort of harness the crowds, which never showed because the whole thing was indoors, because probably the crowds wouldn't have shown. But it was definitely cold. It was terrible weather. You couldn't get an Uber, as I mentioned, hence my rain poncho. And it felt like a whole trudge. But there was a lot of energy at the parties. The opening of the Ned, a new club, in fact, we have just started at the Daily Beast, a new gossip column that's going to be based out of D.C. called the Swamp.

[Samantha Bee]

I love it.

[Joanna Coles]

So. And we kick off the Swamp. We kicked off this Monday's edition of the Swamp at the Ned, which is a British club. It's part owned by the people that own soap. Ron Burkle is one of the owners and their pride of place was Leon Black, Jeffrey Epstein's great friend, surrounded by a group of somewhat adoring looking young men doing bumps of caviar.

[Samantha Bee]

Fantastic. They were all boy.

[Joanna Coles]

So. But there was also Muriel Bowser, the mayor of D.C. there, Michael Milken, who owns the building it's in, I think, or he owns the building next door. It was a very interesting cross section of dc, Lots of journalists, people from there, people from the Wall Street Journal, all sorts of people. Incredible views of the White House. It's the most extraordinary club, actually. It's like it's based on an old English gentleman's club and it's just really beautifully done. Fantastic views of the White House. And then there was a building adjacent. I went out on the terrace with a huge sign saying, welcome back, Mr. President.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, glorious, glorious.

[Joanna Coles]

And it was also, there was a sense of. I don't, I don't like all this kind of hyperbole. I think it's sort of silly and it reduces Trump to something he's not. But there were lots of glasses of champagne, almost like champagne fountains, and a lot of people going around saying, this feels like Germany and sort of the late 1930s.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, so just a really healthy vibe. So just a really fun party vibe.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, the two people said to me, are you drinking with the Nazis or are you a Nazi? And I was like, oh, I'm. I'm not. I'm just here for the free champagne.

[Samantha Bee]

What a combo part. That's a That's a real mixed crowd. But I will say this, it doesn't sound too cool. Was it cool?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, the space itself is gorgeous, actually. It really is quite cool. And I can see a lot of people joining it because there aren't that many clubs in dc. I think the new administration is not about cool. It's about right. It's. I mean, everybody was going around saying, it's just pay to play. It's pay to play. To play.

[Samantha Bee]

Champagne fountain.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep. And of course, lots of spottings of RFK Jr, who'd been working out at the Lifetime Gym in Arlington.

[Samantha Bee]

With a top or with a top?

[Joanna Coles]

With a top. No, no. I. Inquiring. The first thing I asked, did he. Was he dressed? He had his top on and he wasn't wearing jeans.

[Samantha Bee]

He wasn't wearing. Was he wearing bottoms?

[Joanna Coles]

I didn't. I assumed he was wearing bottoms. Might have been arrested. Never assumed.

[Samantha Bee]

Never assume.

[Joanna Coles]

Never assume with rfk. Very good point. I'm trying to think of other sightings I had. There were so many.

[Samantha Bee]

You went to the X party?

[Joanna Coles]

I went to the X party where everybody was hoping Elon would turn up. He didn't turn up. His brother was there. Kimball, tall, good looking, big steps and hat. There was country band Dierks Bentley playing Country Roads, Take Me Home, which. I like that song. I liked it when John Denver did it. So Dierks was really taking the lead there. A lot of people, you know, who I was struck by? It was Liz Truss, the British Prime Minister, who lasted 44 days, as you remember, which was shorter than the head of Lettuce. It was really a competition between the head of Lettuce and Liz Truss. And I said, what are you doing here? And she sort of eyed me and she said, in a very deep voice, she said, I'm here to learn how to create revolution back home. And I said, oh, do we need a revolution in Britain? And she went, oh, we do. But she had her chance and it only lasted 44 days. So she. She wandered off. I then had a chat with Steve Hilton, who, as you know, is running for governor of California.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

He's gonna run as a Republican.

[Samantha Bee]

What are his chances? I mean.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, there's a moment, right? There's a moment. He has a book coming out in March called Califalia.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, dear.

[Joanna Coles]

Fantastic title, I thought. Fantastically good title for where we are right now, as we know. There's a, you know, attempted recall of both Gavin Newsom and Karen Bass, the mayor of LA and the governor, respectively. Steve is. He seemed very bright. Eyed about his chances.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, really?

[Joanna Coles]

Who knows? Who knows?

[Samantha Bee]

Do you? Were there people at the party? Because I've been to parties in the past that definitely made me want to leave as soon as I walked in the door. Like, basically, if I would go to a party and, you know, there are New York media world parties, any party that if I would go in and see Ann Coulter, I was like, I gotta get out of here right now. Like, I would turn and walk out. Did you have anyone?

[Joanna Coles]

I am one of those embarrassing people that finds almost every party energizing. I was pretty tired by the time I got in there because I'd already done a series of brunches. Plus, the weather really was shocking. And I'd had an interesting conversation with Mr. Wonderful, Kevin O'Leary and Frank McCourt about their attempts to buy TikTok. They put this deal together, they're pricing it at 20 billion. It's on the table. It's with ByteDance's bankers. They don't know what's gonna. I'd spent the afternoon talking to them about it, and so I was tired. But I just walk into a room of people and I am energized.

[Samantha Bee]

Energized.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. It's embarrassing. It is so embarrassing.

[Samantha Bee]

It's not embarrassing.

[Joanna Coles]

It's a little embarrassing.

[Samantha Bee]

It's interesting. This is why you do what you do and why I flee from parties.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's a little. I find it embarrassing.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm one of those people that I'm embarrassed for myself when I get to a party.

[Samantha Bee]

Don't be embarrassed. Only be embarrassed if. If you were caught on camera dancing to Dierks Bentley.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, I wasn't caught on camera. We know. I might have been swaying.

[Samantha Bee]

You were swaying.

[Joanna Coles]

I might have been swaying, actually, because I do love. I like a bit of country music.

[Samantha Bee]

Swaying. Okay. And was there a cheese mountain? There was champagne, There was caviar.

[Joanna Coles]

There were.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, that was at the Ned. What did they serve?

[Joanna Coles]

There was a lot of champagne, a lot of cocktails at the Ned. They had those round champagne glasses, you know, that. That were based on the bosom of Mary Antoinette. Like a coup. Yeah, a coup.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

Or no, it was Josephine. Right. It was Josephine. That's where those glasses came from.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

They're supposed to be the size of Josephine's breasts.

[Samantha Bee]

We can. They're now called a Lauren Sanchez.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, they're not. Well, those would be goblets.

[John Lovett]

Those are goblets.

[Joanna Coles]

Those would be goblets.

[Samantha Bee]

That's a chalice from the Lord God himself.

[Joanna Coles]

That is it is indeed. Yeah. And I couldn't help thinking, I mean, we both had this thought of our friend Cecile Richards.

[Samantha Bee]

We did. I'm so saddened. You were good friends. You must have been very stricken.

[Joanna Coles]

I was. I was very sad. I mean, there was an irony to her dying before Trump got sworn in that very morning.

[Samantha Bee]

That very morning.

[Joanna Coles]

As someone who spent her life working for women's reproductive rights in an incredibly formative way, and who was absolutely fighting and working till her very last breath.

[Samantha Bee]

I. I just have found Cecile Richards to be a total inspiration. And I have met her many times and just found her to be really one in a million, one in a billion. Just a very special person. And I'm saddened for you, and I'm saddened for her family and for this world. I don't know.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. I'm not sure how many young women quite understand what they owe to Cecile and how awful it's been for her. The overturning of Roe vs. Wade was a terrible blow. And yet throughout it all, she, you know, kept fighting, believed very strongly in what she was fighting for. I remember her telling me about a conversation that she had with Ivanka and Jared in the run up to Trump being elected first time around, or perhaps it was just after. And they said to her, if you can just drop the abortion stuff, we can work with you. You just have to drop the abortion stuff. Which was only 3% of what planned parent who does? And she just said, I, you know, of course I can't. Of course I can't. This is the single most important economic decision a woman will make is when she has a baby and she has to have the choice. And she pointed out, which I always try and remind people, that actually, the people that have abortions largely are mothers. They are already mothers who've got children who know how difficult it is so.

[Samantha Bee]

Often, you know, a decision that is rooted in the economic conditions of your family. What'd you wanna do with your life, how you wanna see the rest of your life unfurl? It's just vital. And she was just an incredible person. And Planned Parenthood is going to be under siege.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep, it's gonna be under siege. And I also wanna point out she was incredibly beautiful. And I remember we went camping. A small group of women friends was a sort of little rump of us, and we would go camping, or glamping, as it's called, on Governor's Island. And even in the morning when she got up, she looked spectacular. She didn't need to do anything. She had this gorgeous skin, lovely hair, tall and just a really gorgeous person inside out.

[Samantha Bee]

What a loss. What a loss. Well, as we're sitting here talking, it's Wednesday morning. The whole world could look different.

[Joanna Coles]

The whole world could look different. And of course Pete Hegseth's former sister in law has just come out with an affidavit saying that he frightened his his second wife. Scared her so much that she had a code word.

[Samantha Bee]

A code word.

[Joanna Coles]

And that he was abusing alcohol and threatening violence.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes, that she hid and she had to hide in a closet and had a safe word in case he was coming after her so that people would know to come and get her. Wow. What a quality choice.

[Joanna Coles]

Excited for him to have his finger on the bum.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, I'm excited for us all.

[Joanna Coles]

It's just what it is, right?

[Samantha Bee]

It's just what it is.

[Joanna Coles]

It's just what it is. We're going to take a quick break before we talk to our beast of the week, the king of Podsave America, John Lovett.

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[Joanna Coles]

We're back and we're excited to be joined for a second time by this week. This week's Beast of the Week. John Lovett. Jon is a former speechwriter for President Obama and Hillary Clinton, a TV writer and a source of comedic relief in a time when relief is hard to come by. He's the co founder of Crooked Media and hosts the wildly successful Pod, Save America and Love it or Leave it. Both available like the Beast podcast wherever you listen to your podcasts. Fun fact, he was voted off Survivor season 47. Unlike Donald Trump, who's just been voted in as our 47th president. Sorry, John, I couldn't resist that. Thanks for joining us.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much for coming to our Adirondack studio.

[John Lovett]

So happy to be here. Look at this. Very woodsy.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, it's super woodsy. It feels appropriate for the weather. And you're from la.

[John Lovett]

That's right.

[Joanna Coles]

Your house is still standing.

[John Lovett]

We were okay. Very lucky. A lot of people not so lucky. Now. It's a lot about air quality and a lot of very confusing and contradictory advice on air quality.

[Samantha Bee]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

But we're okay.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay, good. Okay. The last time that you were here, we were talking about the VP debates. Oh, wow, wow, wow. It's almost quaint. So fast forward, Trump's in the White House. First impressions? How's it going for you so far?

[John Lovett]

Oh, I would say that I'm pretty disappointed.

[Samantha Bee]

What?

[John Lovett]

I'm pretty dis. Yeah, it's so. I think it's just worth saying that I think a lot of people are struggling with how to think and talk about this, including people that, Whose jobs are ostensibly to think and talk about this. And I was trying to, before I get to, like, how do I feel? Or what do I think about it? Like, why is this so challenging? Like, why are we all, I think, struggling? It does feel like collectively we're all just sort of watching this, sort of mouths agape. And I think part of it, and maybe there's a silver lining to this, is that in 2017, when Donald Trump won, we had a lot of misconceptions about why, and we were able to cling to a lot of our previously held notions of America, of democracy, of voters. Right. He didn't win the popular vote and there was a lot of misinformation and people didn't take him seriously enough and they didn't understand the threat enough. And this time those little bits of denial are not available to us. Right. Right. Like America saw him for what he was, he did, did inspire and try to lead an insurrection. He was a terrible president. He is manifestly, manifestly unfet. And yet we were not able to convince enough people about that. And that is a result of failures in the media. That is a result of a lack of credibility on the part of Democrats. That is a result of people's dissatisfaction with inflation and with Joe Biden. And with Joe Biden leaving the bully pulpit basically empty for a year. But. But we don't have those little bits of positive thoughts to cling to. And so we're a little bit adrift right now. But maybe that's a good thing because maybe it's worth sitting with the reality of this and not trying to talk ourselves out of this and allowing ourselves the space to think about how we fight back against this, knowing that all these hopes and assumptions we had were wrong.

[Samantha Bee]

Right. I do think there's a sense too, among people who do have covered him as a president who. That we just should not lose. Are cool.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

About every single thing.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think that's right.

[Samantha Bee]

Kind of have to pace yourself a little bit because right away there's a flood and they're flooding the zone and all of that stuff. And we know that some of those things are going to happen. Some are just gestures. A lot of it is posturing. We just have to kind of chill out for a second and as you say, just sit with it for a minute.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, I think that's right. And also, just what's important, what's less important, even if it's outrageous, even if it concerns us. Right. Like. Like Donald Trump is attempting to remove birthright citizenship. That's a very dangerous thing. He hopefully probably is not able to do it, we have to say, probably because we have lost so much trust and faith in the Supreme Court. But then you look at a debate online, Right. And while Donald Trump is pardoning not just the people that enter the Capitol, but some of the most violent people that were a part of the assault on the Capitol attack, police officers, you see a lot of people online more interested in debating whether or not Elon Musk was doing a Hail Hitler out there.

[Samantha Bee]

Sure.

[John Lovett]

And what matters, what affects people, what's important. Right. Like, the debate over whether or not Elon Musk is autistic or a Nazi is, like, not that important. Ultimately, regardless, he has a lot of power.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

Let's say he did do a Hail Hitler out there. What does that tell us? It tells us he feels unconstrained. He can do whatever you want. I already know that. That. I already know that by his conduct and the actual power Donald Trump is giving him inside of our government. So I think we have to, like, get ourselves to focus on the big, important things that matter to people.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Speaking.

[Samantha Bee]

I actually did want to talk about birthright citizenship. Do you think there's any meat on the bone to that? Like, what is your. I mean, I'm not a legal expert. Seems like it's going to be a pretty colossal fight.

[John Lovett]

So kind of say this is just like a small thing that bothers. Like, the Constitution was written by shopkeepers and, and store owners with lead poisoning. Drinking beer for breakfast. Like the, the, the.

[Joanna Coles]

Like.

[John Lovett]

I just. The. I. Legal expertise is incredibly important. We have these incredible legal scholars that do strict scrutiny for crooked media. But the Constitution is plainly written when it comes to birthright citizenship. And the only reason we're even entertaining it is because the Supreme Court has gone nuts. But it's ludicrous. It's ludicrous. The 14th Amendment is completely clear. It says if you're born here, you're a citizen, unless you're not subject to our jurisdiction. Does Donald Trump believe undocumented people can't be arrested for crimes? The whole premise of his campaign is that they can be arrested for crimes. This is about diplomats. This is about the children of diplomats. This is nothing to do with people born in the United States.

[Joanna Coles]

But also undocumented people who commit crimes have always been deported. I mean, that's the other thing that. He's taken over what is perfectly standard common sense behavior and hijacked it for his own political purposes, which Works well. But there was a very good title. I didn't read the column today, but I did see the title, which I thought was good, which is that Donald Trump is trafficking in Americans. Ignorance on civics.

[John Lovett]

I think that that's part of it, of course. Yeah. He has this great trick where he declares something that's not happening must be stopped, and then upon winning, he stopped it.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Free speech is back, everybody. I would love to know, know what a MAGA person couldn't say on Saturday that they can say today. Right? Or like, good news, everybody. You can go buy to go back to buying gas powered vehicles. Were you unable to buy gas, power vehicles? So, like, he has that great trick, but to your point, like, we are paying dearly for the fact that Joe Biden basically left the bully pulpit empty for the last year and a half. And like, and you want it like, oh, how does Donald Trump get away with this? Donald Trump has been president for what, 36 hours, something like that? 48 hours at this point. He did three inaugurals, he's done two press conferences. He's out there. He understands something that Democrats don't, which is that in an era where people have come to expect leadership to be in their face all the time, in part because of Donald Trump, and with so many different ways to reach people with so much information and so much misinformation, you just have to be out there all the time. The Democrat that is able to fight back against this is going to be the Democrat that can be out there every single day for hours at a time, taking every question, afraid of no one asking them something too hard, worrying less about talking points, worrying less about saying the wrong thing to Joe Rogan, whatever it may be, and just being out there.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. He's 247 television news on his own. This is a show. Right. And they are putting up nothing. Can we talk about the symbolism of the inauguration? Because Sam and I talked about it earlier and we have different thoughts on it. But what should the Democrats have done? I mean, it was extraordinary to see how diminished they seemed sitting opposite him.

[Samantha Bee]

I really objected to them just sort of sitting passively and smiling and doing all of those political niceties. I just think we're. I think we're post. I think we're post presidential norms. I just think it's all blown out the wind. I mean, do something differently. Just do one thing differently. Be a bitch, be weird or laugh.

[Joanna Coles]

Like, why didn't they all do? There was such a wonderful moment when Hillary started laughing when he said, oh, I'm going to rename it the Gulf of America, not the Gulf of Mexico. And she started laughing. If only all of them had started laughing. It would have thrown him off his game. But you're completely right that there's no one to counteract his programming. It's basically. There's no counter programming from the Democrats.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, he's so good. Unlike Joe Biden, who was absent from the scene for a really long time. He is so good at communicating his victory, even when his victories are not real, they weren't his. America is now in a golden age. I'm like, it's the same place it was literally two days ago.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, yeah. So I think about that. Right. Like, so there was this pastor, the bishop. Yes, right. That basically said to Donald Trump, there are people that are scared right now. There are immigrants who are scared. There are gay people and trans people who are scared. Have mercy on them. Show mercy. Remember that these are the people that, that do jobs in this country that we need them to do, that aren't criminals that have done nothing but tried to have a better life here. And obviously today Donald Trump takes great offense to that. It is a small act of protest. Right. And I think it was great. It's really moving and great.

[Joanna Coles]

This is the Bishop of D.C. right?

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[John Lovett]

I don't know what ceremony that was that they were all at, but you see, you get Donald Trump and J.D. vance and Usha Vance sitting there in the front row, sort of hostage to her work. Fantastic. Enjoyed it. Then I think about the day before, Amy Klobuchar doing the welcome and she made reference to the importance of the peaceful transfer of power. And then you think, what would be something there that would be effective? Right. I honestly don't know. Right. Like Democrats walking out, Democrats not lending Donald Trump the pomp and circumstance. I'm thinking about, like, I know that that would work for us.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[John Lovett]

We would get the hyper engaged people that have been paying attention throughout this entire, long, now almost decade long Trump saga. Like, we're all paying close attention, but the person that was angry at Joe Biden didn't, like Donald Trump ultimately threw Trump a vote because they were worried about inflation and either didn't see or a bit inured to all of his noise and nonsense. What does that tell them? Right. It doesn't, I don't know that that's a persuasive act for them. The reality, the unfortunate reality is because Donald Trump won, he gets not just the support, but of not just the kind of the support of the People that back his politics. He is lent the pomp and circumstance of being president. That is now one of the tools he has for doing politics. And he knows that better than anybody. He loves getting to go on Air Force One. He loves Hail to the Chief. Right. He got that. He gets that. There's nothing we can do about that.

[Samantha Bee]

I take your point about it not being a persuasive act, but I do think that they, and perhaps all of us, they certainly, I mean, big prominent Democrats really underestimate how much it could help them and be a story and be loud if they just did anything differently, just anything.

[John Lovett]

I totally agree with that. And I think the problem, it's like it's. Are these the Democrats to do that? Right. Like, the problem. Right. Is that.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, that's a great question.

[John Lovett]

And it's like we need a pugnacious, attention grabbing, charismatic, authentic group of leaders to emerge in this moment to be our champions, to like be our fighters.

[Joanna Coles]

And truthfully, the only one that springs to mind is aoc, who is of a different generation, is completely fearless in what she says. I think says plenty of nonsense, but at the same time she has this sort of leaning into. Or what she understands is this is about attention. I spent some time with Kevin O'Leary, Mr. Wonderful, on Shark Tank on Sunday, and.

[John Lovett]

Of course we did.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we were talking about TikTok because as you know, he's put in a bid for TikTok and he wanted to talk about it, but what he reminded me of was just Mark Burnett did Shark Tank and he said, mark Burnett taught me to be who I am and Mark Burnett taught Trump to be who he is. And you feel like I'm serious about the counter programming from the Democrats. This is an attention get. It's a brilliant use of Omni Media and there is no one leaning in to help the Democrats with that. Where is their version of Mark? Ben Burnett.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Who's now been made special envoy to the UK by Joanna Coles. So much of this is nonsense. The throwing out of the executive orders. Nobody's gonna check whether or not it's actually taking part. Some of it. And the Democrats don't have their version of that.

[John Lovett]

One thing I was thinking when I was watching, first of all, it really just sucks that the first president to figure out you can do whatever you want is Donald Trump. And it's like, oh, like, it's just like that. That stinks.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm sure there were others and I feel good.

[Joanna Coles]

I think going back in history, there were plenty, plenty of presidents who thought that. It's just, it wasn't writ large, 24, 7 in people's faces, right? It took people six weeks to learn what he'd done.

[John Lovett]

Well, what I mean is just that, like, I didn't know a president could sign official executive orders at a rally, but of course, there's no rule against doing that. I mean, whatever rules there are aren't real and don't matter. But what I was thinking when I was watching Donald Trump sign all the executive orders, each one was an applause line, right? And. And so we see that, and we said, well, we need people that can do that. But that took years. It took years of politics on the part of the right to get to the point where there was a list of deliverables, right, that would get their base so pumped so that on day one of his White House, he gets to sit down and be like, I'm back, baby. You wanted free speech, You've got free speech. You want an end to dei, You've got an end to dei. You want me to come after the electric cars? I'm coming after electric cars. They built a politics that created a list of things he would do on day one, and lo and behold, he gets to do them. And I think over the last few years, Donald Trump has scrambled a lot of our brains, but one thing it has done is as Donald Trump gets to go around the country saying, whatever your grievance, whatever your anger, whatever your antipathy, whoever you blame for your problems, you're not wrong to care about that. That thing that you're angry about, that the news says you shouldn't care about that. You're not wrong. Care about it. I care about it, too. That little thing that's bugging you, you're right. Right. You're right to care about that. You're not wrong to care about that. And then Democrats spent the same amount of time being like, you're wrong not to care about this. You're wrong not to care about Donald Trump wanting to get rid of political appointments. Or you're. You're wrong to not care about this. You're not caring in the right way. You don't care correctly. And it's gotten us absolutely fucking nowhere. And I just think, like, who is. Like, who are the politicians, who are the people that over the next couple years are going to do the work to make that list of delivery liberals so that if we do win the White House in the future, there's a president that can, on day one, say, I'm doing a B, C, D, E. And there's a group of people going absolutely nuts because they got their guy and he's. And they. To give him the release, to give him the success that they promised. And like, that is hard. It's big. But that's, to me, like, that's the foundation we have to start building.

[Samantha Bee]

That's so interesting. You don't care. Correctly is such a. I mean, that really sounds.

[John Lovett]

It sucks.

[Samantha Bee]

Who wants to be told that it's true?

[Joanna Coles]

But in the freedom of speech thing, there is also. I was just thinking that there is always this fear still and it will alleviate now, I think, but this fear that somehow you have said something that someone will find a hidden thing in it that has an insult you didn't mean to make about some group. Do you know what I'm saying?

[John Lovett]

I think talking used to be more fun for famous and powerful people. People because they used to be able to talk and do whatever they wanted and they got very little feedback. And a lot of this is about feedback that people don't like or find annoying. Right. There's a whole clutch of very successful, some of the most successful comedians in the history of comedy all have specials about how you can't say things. Right. And how hard it. And how. And how you're not, you know, how free speech is under threat. You have to be free to say things. And it really is about. About criticism. There are examples of overreach and people trying to get people fired. And I'm not saying those things don't take place, but for the most part, this is about noise and people being subjected to liberals they find annoying. And I find a lot of those liberals annoying. But it's not going to lead me to elect Donald Trump over it.

[Samantha Bee]

No.

[John Lovett]

And so I think we all have to get a little bit more comfortable with the fact that there is just more feedback, more noise, more criticism than there ever was before. And it makes people in positions of power who had a lot of ambition and fought very hard to get to the top and who maybe have some unexamined issues that led them to think that this would be fulfilling, they suddenly make it all the way to the top and they're not getting the respect and praise that they thought would come with it. They're getting. They're getting shit on. On the Internet, which is in their pocket, just like everybody else. And they don't get the. They don't get that adulation that they were hoping for, and that's for their therapist. I don't think it's Repulsive.

[Joanna Coles]

I feel like you're slightly underestimating the impact it had on regular people who felt like they stopped saying things out loud because they were frightened that the HR department would come down on them. And I mean HR department in quotes. But I do think that there are a lot of people who felt that they had things they said taken out of context, taken much more seriously than they ever meant. I take your point about criticism and people not wanting criticism and especially famous people, but I do think there was a feeling that you really couldn't say what you wanted anymore.

[John Lovett]

And there's some truth to that. That I think the reality is that a lot of people who aren't in positions of influence, who aren't following, don't have big followings on social media, have always been limited by their jobs. Right. And what they can say. You could always be fired, by the way, to this day. You can of course be fired for speaking back to your boss. Right. If you work at a, at a coffee shop. Right. Like those limits were always there. I think that there is a way in which the political has kind of. There was a lot of messaging around this and propaganda around this that kind of filtered down and made people believe that was the case. I do think you're right that like in some. In the sense that like you see a lot of videos on the Internet of someone picking up their phone and pointing it in the face of somebody that like works at a store and being like, what did you just say? Right. And like I think that kind of panopticon that like, like not government led, but like all of us as individuals treating our phone as a weapon to.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, famous.

[John Lovett]

Hold people accountable. Right. Like that in the world, like if you're wronged or treated, treated incorrectly, you take out your phone and the person filming is always the victim. So then two people that are arguing both take out their phones. Well, you're filming me. I'm filming you. This is my story, not your story. I think that is ugly and makes everybody feel a little tense. And maybe that I think is part of what's.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, there's sort of a creeping paranoia that people are filming each other the whole time. You're right. You're never more than a cell phone video away from total collapse.

[John Lovett]

And I do think people hate that. And I do think people understand that we've given something up and it's wrong.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And I do think then believing that it's the right wing's professed free speech. Cause when of course, a, A lot of the Censorship they're talking about has nothing to do with the First Amendment. And B, they're some of the most litigious people on earth who are trying to abuse libel law and the courts to silence people and go after people is like pretty rich. But I don't think you're wrong. I, I think there is a real fear there that has gone trickle down.

[Joanna Coles]

And they had your point about sort of understanding what people wanted to complain about their radar for that was just so superior to the Democrats, I think. Yeah, I think that's.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't know. I kind of favor people getting called out for being shitty, which mostly was what was happening with people's phones. I think people don't like to think of themselves as holding shitty beliefs and attitudes. But we get treated horribly all the time. People get treated terribly. They get accused of things they didn't do. They get accused of not living in the neighborhood where they own a home. And that's really valid and it makes, makes people who hold not great opinions about other people, it makes them feel nervous. And I think it. We've just sort of bought the propaganda that we're not allowed to say what we want to say. We're allowed to say what we want to say in this country. There are consequences if you say things that are bigoted and misogynistic and they weren't. There weren't before.

[John Lovett]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

So we actually need a little bit of that, I think. I don't know.

[John Lovett]

I agree with you. I just think it's consistent, complicated.

[Samantha Bee]

It is complicated.

[John Lovett]

And I, I just think like, I think what you're saying is of course true. I think people feeling as though we backed our way into a kind of panopticon, which makes people feel a bit anxious, is also true.

[Samantha Bee]

If we got off our phones just a touch more.

[John Lovett]

The phones are.

[Joanna Coles]

The problem will be.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, it is a problem. I mean, it is being forced or you're, I mean, you're allowing it. I'll just say this. When TikTok was offline for 14 hours, my children were thrilled. Like, I've seen it, you know, like at 19 year old, 16 and 14, they were like, great, it's off my phone. It came back, they were like, oh, here we go again. And I was like, you actually don't have to have it, you don't have to have it. And they were like, well, we do because everybody else does. Like, if nobody can have it, we're free. And if somebody else has it, I'm back in the game. I'm like, this is a terrible way to live in the world where we're seeing everything all the time. This is why we're so tense and paranoid all the.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I feel like that with chocolates, though. If just there wasn't any chocolate, it would be fine. But when there is chocolate, it's a disaster. I mean, what is, what is going to happen to TikTok? What do you think is going to happen?

[John Lovett]

I don't know. They did what all these other billionaires are doing, which is they first said that only Donald Trump can save us and then declared that Donald Trump had saved them. The law is pretty clear. TikTok has to be banned unless it is sold. Trump can extend it because a sale is in the offing. That can mean, I guess, whatever you want it to mean. It's not clear that there is some deal on the table right now. This was a bipartisan.

[Joanna Coles]

It's one of the few bipartisan bills, right, where everybody agreed TikTok is a bad thing. It's a national security risk.

[John Lovett]

It is, though, to me, like a signal. Perfect example of everything wrong with politics right now. Because you had a bipartisan establishment saying we must ban this. That they never gave us a full explanation as to why. They said it's a national security threat. We've barely gotten, by the way. When they passed it, we had no information.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, because it was snuck in the Ukraine bill. Right. Passed late on a Saturday night.

[John Lovett]

Exactly. And then it's been in the months since, it's been a lot of, trust us, trust us, this is what has to happen. It's the right thing. It's a lot of like, oh, they're, they're, it's, they're, they're mixing a bunch of different reasons. Right. One of the reasons that is that it's terrible for children. Children. I agree. Why is it like, okay, now an American company is rotting our kids brains. That's great. What an upgrade. But then they say, all right, there's all these national security threats. Explain them. This is again, goes to like the, that joke. We spent months and I, I feel, I regret the way in which I, I was always critical of Joe Biden and his, and his, I think, failures to communicate. But it has only hit me over the last couple of months just how much we've paid for having a White House where when the President spoke, the best you could hope for was a draw. Right. You hoped you guys got out of it. Yeah, well, that's not.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you sat on the edge of your seat going, you can make it, you can make it to the end of the sentence.

[John Lovett]

Come on. And like. And instead what you need is somebody effortlessly and constantly persuading. But we haven't had that on this. And then what happens? Donald Trump gets to roll in like a white knight to save it.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we've also had a Supreme Court.

[John Lovett]

Sucking up to him and we've had.

[Joanna Coles]

A Supreme Court decision, nine, nine to one unanimous Supreme Court decision. That it should go to such an.

[Samantha Bee]

Embarrassing capitulation, of course, is so humiliating. We seem, we are look so much weaker than we did 48 hours ago.

[John Lovett]

And by the way, like, I don't, I'm no like a huge fan of our, our giant tech conglomerates, but they don't have access to the China. Right.

[Samantha Bee]

Access to that?

[John Lovett]

To China?

[Joanna Coles]

No, the ccp, right. It settles right in the heart of America.

[John Lovett]

The feckless self righteous political establishment telling us that they know better. The users of the app saying we don't agree and Donald Trump saying I'm going to side with all the people because they're, because I have no actual beliefs. And this seems like better politics. And he's absolutely right.

[Samantha Bee]

The users of the app receiving, you know, days and days worth of like actual propaganda about how great, great the app is. It reaches 175 million people. 175 million people all drop the message.

[Joanna Coles]

Don'T get me started, all at the same time. It's CCP writ large.

[John Lovett]

And I got so many great recipes from it. I made the viral Turkish pasta. If anyone out there made the viral Turkish pasta, don't take my app feta.

[Joanna Coles]

I re read a letter to America on it, as did 20 million people who didn't know anything about it when he miraculously surfaced.

[Samantha Bee]

We are just lucky that the only message that they sent to 175 million people the other day was like preserve this, this app because it has so much potential to do us harm.

[John Lovett]

Thank you, Mr. Trump.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh boy. Just looking at that big.

[Joanna Coles]

I know the one, the one good thing you can say about it is 6 million small businesses, right, actually make money through tick tock.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

All right. I'm just saying, I mean, I feel badly.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't want to.

[John Lovett]

The, the, the thing about the ownership. Look, I'm. Whatever, whatever they're seeing in these secret meetings, like they should release it. Tell us. Yeah, palace. But they have, but what I have taken away from this is you look at the 2016 election and Russia using misinformation on Facebook. You look at Twitter changing and moving to the right now. We're talking about TikTok. What I've learned is regardless of the owner, whether it's an American billionaire, whether it's Russian influence, whether it's the Chinese Communist Party, you throw a bunch of digital throwing stars and nunchucks and axes and spiked backs in the center of a group of Americans, they'll pick them up and they'll bludgeon each other with them. And to me, like, that's the problem, right? The problem is not who owns it. I mean, I think that's obviously important. But the problem is what happens when social media and politics meet and we simply are not up to it.

[Samantha Bee]

We are not. We are not sophisticated.

[Joanna Coles]

Can I make an observation about your former boss, Barack Obama at the inauguration, which is that he seemed strangely and unexpectedly diminished. And it was partly because of the lack of seniority of seating, because the Clintons and George Bush were in front of him in terms of just position of seating, but without Michelle. Also, like, the two of them together always felt like this force. And it's such an extraordinary change to go from. I remember being at his second inauguration. It was such an extraordinary moment. The entire of D.C. was packed. I mean, D.C. was sort of. I mean, it was partly that it was cold, but it was very cold for the Obama inauguration, too. Number two, I was freezing all the time. It felt much more empty. D.C. this time round. But what is he doing now? It felt like he'd come and gone somehow. And you were like, oh, there's that guy that brought us hope and change and what's happened to him?

[John Lovett]

So I don't. I think, like, the medium is the message. The inaugural is the place where it is built around the person who's becoming president. They always seem big. They are commanding. It is a ceremony designed to elevate that person. I don't think there's any way around that. It's interesting, right? Barack Obama at the convention, at the Joe Biden convention was like, there were. They were Barack Obama's speech, Michelle Obama's speech, and actually Doug Emhoff's speech, which I do like. I'll just want to not forget. Like, you know, when a campaign loses, you don't focus on the things that went well. Right? Everything was either bad or not important. But Michelle Obama, Barack Obama, they were extraordinary circus surrogates. And Barack Obama on the campaign trail was an extraordinary surrogate, making the best, or if not one of the best arguments for electing Kamala Harris. By the way, he would have done the same if it had been Joe Biden. But Barack Obama, we're getting each election we get further and further away from when he was the president. And we haven't made another, right. We have made no more figures that have his popularity. No one is popular. Right. Not as broad a coalition. And then I think, all right, look at the last few Democratic presidents, right? You had, you had Bill Clinton, you had Barack Obama. Then you look at like the figures that have excited the Democratic base. People like Bernie Sanders. They all had different approaches to what it meant for them to be run against the establishment. To run for change meant very different things for each of them. But each of them were these larger than life figures or have been these larger than life figures. Figures that set Washington or politics as usual as the enemy. And I think that, to me, is what's instructive about Barack Obama's success. It is. Who are the figures that are going to find a way to make an argument against the establishment that's captivating, that brings a big coalition together. Bernie Sanders, I think, in AOC actually do that. And they're filling a void. And so the left really is the only one offering that kind of broad based critique, which is why I think it appeals to a lot of people. But Barack Obama's was not really on war. It was, but not on the economy. It was more of a message about anti corruption, about the need for change, about the need for new leadership, a new generation. Right. There's a lot of ways at it. Bill Clinton ran against a decadent left. Right. He ran to prove that Democrats could be moderate.

[Joanna Coles]

Right?

[John Lovett]

Right. Like it's been different every time he.

[Joanna Coles]

Cared about the economy. Yeah, right. So who do you see coming up then? Who is there out there? Is it Hakeem Jeffries? Who is it?

[John Lovett]

I don't know.

[Joanna Coles]

For people who are listening, listening to this and not watching it on YouTube, John's face was just priceless.

[John Lovett]

I don't know. I don't know. And here's my resolution. I have a bunch of resolutions that are now out the window, but this one I'm going to keep. I'm not going to pretend, right? You know, I'm not going to look at a group of Democrats and say the least annoying one is the best one. I'm just, I can't do it anymore. So I don't know. But this is the time, right? Like, nobody thought after George W. Bush won in 2004, when Democrats had lost across the board, that within two years, 2006, we would take back the Congress. And two years after that, an unknown man named Barack Hussein Obama would be President of the United States. So right now, this is the beauty that we have. We have shaken the Etch A Sketch, right? Like, it's everybody back to one. And so make your. Tell your story, make your case. And by the way, we don't know what's going to work. We don't know what it's going to put on its feet.

[Samantha Bee]

And, you know, like, I think there's such a level of. I think we're just sort. I mean, just spinning off of what you just said. I just think there's such critical levels of fatigue. Like, everyone's just like, I don't know, why should I care? Like, literally, why should I care anymore? Why should I? I mean, I care because I care, because I care about the issues that I care about. But do I care about the political establishment right now or the emerging political establishment? I'm just not sure that I do kind of have to focus on the issues that are important to me. Because honestly, when I see. I'm sorry, I have to say this. When everybody is talking about Donald Trump and acknowledging that he's a fascist and using the word fascist in their speech giving and their campaigning, and then they're all just sitting together on a big stage going, well, you know, it's better that it's inside, just like having a chat. It makes me physically ill. I'm like, I just don't believe in anything. And I think there are a lot of people who are just existing in this space now where we're like, I don't know. I really don't know. I just don't know that I can summon the will to care about their careers.

[John Lovett]

And you know what, though? I don't care about their careers at all. Never have, never will. But I do think that, like, what we're gonna try to figure out, what we have to figure out is a story of politics that starts with that feeling. We spent a lot of time talking about the ways in which Donald Trump can make everything terrible. And he can. But we do also need to talk about, like, the world we want to build.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[John Lovett]

And. And even. And like, even when, like, I don't know what that world looks like. Right. Like, what is our goal? What's. What is a. What is an exciting future? If Democrats got everything we want, Right. What does that world look like?

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[John Lovett]

We didn't paint that picture well.

[Samantha Bee]

We should have universal health care.

[John Lovett]

Sure, but even healthcare.

[Joanna Coles]

But, like, we could have reproductive rights for women.

[John Lovett]

That would be even those two things.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[John Lovett]

Like, obviously, those are absolutely among the most important things that government can do for its assessment. But those should be table stakes. Everybody being able to go to the doctor, that's important, but it's actually an answer to our current dystopia. It's an answer to why things are so bad now that the best we can hope for is going to the doctor. Like, there's even. There's a better world even than that. Once everybody can have healthcare and everybody can go to the doctor when they need to see the doctor. The bare fucking minimum for what a government should provide, what's after that? What's like the next thing.

[Samantha Bee]

You know, And I do want to say, I do want to add this point because we do sort of, I mean, talking to all my friends and talking, talking to you, my new friends.

[Joanna Coles]

My new friends, new friends, new friends, new.

[Samantha Bee]

You know, the, the cynicism, though, like, talking about us, kind of like having a cynical view. I actually think, I just want to acknowledge that. I actually think that the GOP is the most cynical political organization, of course, of all. So I don't want to give the impression that I think that they're like hope and future thinking. I think, think, you know, well, they're all cynical.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. It's just. You want your cynical, not their cynical.

[Samantha Bee]

Just throwing kid rocket.

[Joanna Coles]

Us.

[John Lovett]

Yeah. Again, because I do think some of the most dangerous people in politics or are. Are naive people who think they're cynical. Right. Like, you can't con an honest man. Like the people that think they're getting one over on Trump when he's really the one getting things over on them. Right. That's what these billionaires are doing. That's what a lot of these members of Congress are doing. That's what some of his, like, most hardened supporters are doing. They think they're in on the joke, but I think sometimes the joke's on them.

[Joanna Coles]

So, John, who lasts longer, Elon or Steve Furman?

[John Lovett]

Oh, yeah, that's such a. Such a great question. I have no idea. I have no idea what's going to happen within this. In this rat's nest.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, God.

[Samantha Bee]

You know, cockroaches can. Are equipped to last out a nuclear war, so who knows where.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Vivek Ramaswamy's off the island. You know what that feels like? You know what that feels?

[John Lovett]

I do know what that feels. Think about how annoying you have to be interpersonally to be the person people don't want to work with. And your colleague is Elon. Think about what you're bringing to these Meetings.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow.

[John Lovett]

Something to think about.

[Joanna Coles]

Thanks to Elon, as you know. I will defend Elon. I think you do.

[John Lovett]

Interesting.

[Samantha Bee]

Savannah.

[Joanna Coles]

I think that he is an extraordinary brain, and he needs to be protected. And he's much more interesting than almost anybody else out there. I know you're both looking at me as if I'm, like, bonkers, but I think some of what he's done and his ability to say, you know what? We're gonna get rockets up into space and we're gonna do it, get to Mars.

[Samantha Bee]

You got. Let him go right on that journey.

[Joanna Coles]

And plant a flag on Mars.

[Samantha Bee]

Land that flying.

[Joanna Coles]

I do think he thinks differently, and that's important to have. You just have to harness that ability to think differently. That's all.

[John Lovett]

Yeah, maybe little.

[Joanna Coles]

That's all.

[Samantha Bee]

But you can't harness. No, look, it's over.

[John Lovett]

You know, you don't. You don't. You don't go to the hardware store for milk. I don't like. He may be good at.

[Joanna Coles]

I agree. He may be good at doing ro.

[John Lovett]

But I don't want him in charge of my government. And some people can be very smart at one thing and have an arrogance and confidence that does not translate into other aspects of public life.

[Joanna Coles]

Agree. And I don't think he should be in the charge of the Department of Government Efficiency. I get that. He should be in charge of thinking different, of big American dreams, which is, after all, what Trump wants. I don't understand why they've put him there. That makes no sense to me. And Vivek doesn't make sense to Vivek because he's now left. Although it makes no sense that he's running as governor of Ohio.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, he had to think of something pretty quickly when he knew that he was gonna get fired from Doge. I mean, well, it's all.

[Joanna Coles]

It's all.

[Samantha Bee]

These people are so repellent.

[Joanna Coles]

Every day it's a different episode. Every day there's a different character. It's gonna be exhausting.

[John Lovett]

You bet it is. And listen.

[Joanna Coles]

And super interesting.

[John Lovett]

Just do me a favor. Dear listener or dear viewer, go to votesaveamerica.com and sign up. Because when there's a lot of noise and a lot of bullshit and a lot of reasons to not pay attention and you're not sure where to put your energies, we will give you small, simple steps to focus on a lot of big conversations, a lot of big ideas. There's something really granular that's very important. We have two years to win the house, and I know it feels Like a small thing to say when all these terrible and big things are happening, a lot of, of which we can't stop. But if we win the House in two years, we can stop Donald Trump from legislating. And as much as it feels like the rules of politics no longer applies, there's a dozen or so Republicans in swing districts that want to keep their jobs where the ordinary gears of politics still turn. That's where we need to put our energies. So do me a favor, sign up at Vote Save America. We'll give you ways to help and put your energy and their anxiety and your fear and your love of Elon Musk to good use.

[Samantha Bee]

Think granular.

[Joanna Coles]

John Novitt, thank you for coming in. Please come back so, so much. Yeah, please come back soon.

[John Lovett]

Thanks for having.

[Joanna Coles]

Very good see you.

[Samantha Bee]

So fun to see you very person.

[John Lovett]

Look at us.

[Joanna Coles]

So much more fun in person, isn't it? So much fun. It really is. Last time I saw you in person was at the White House with Joe Biden.

[John Lovett]

Right? Oh, my God.

[Joanna Coles]

And he could barely move.

[John Lovett]

Oh, it was pretty bad. It was, one of, it was, it.

[Joanna Coles]

Was a creators event that they had last year.

[John Lovett]

And I remember we told, I told myself after that, like, well, he just gotten back from a European trip. It's Friday. He's exhausted. And then we saw him at that fundraiser. I was like, well, now we're over two. Now we're over two. And then we saw the debate. I was like, I'm out. Yeah, put a fork in him. He's done.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. The debate was the defining moment. But that was, that event was, was. Well, he just physically couldn't really move. Yeah, unfortunately.

[John Lovett]

But not our problem anymore. We got new problems.

[Samantha Bee]

New problems.

[John Lovett]

Is this over?

[Samantha Bee]

Problems?

[John Lovett]

Is it a wrap?

[Freddie Wong]

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[Samantha Bee]

40 gigabytes on unlimited.

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See mintmobile.com for details.

[Rocket Money Advertiser]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money Houston. Houston, we have a problem and that's too many subscriptions that I don't know about because I like to put my credit card number number into sites just for the sheer thrill of it. That's the fundamental problem of the Internet and money. And Rocket Money is here to solve that. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills. You can see all those subscriptions that you've accrued over a lifetime of putting your credit card in on the Internet in one place. If you don't want them, just cancel them with a few taps. Rocket Money Money can help with that. Rocket Money's over 5 million users and has saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com cancelsubs. That's rocketmoney.com cancelsubs, not submarines.

[Joanna Coles]

If you did, thank you for listening and if you enjoyed this episode, please like subscribe, comment and share it with everyone you know and some strangers. If you need an icebreaker, ask them if they listen to the Daily Beast podcast with Samantha Bee and Joanna Coles, the ideal icebreaker.

[Samantha Bee]

And keep sending us those emails. Beastpod, the DailyBeast.com, drop us a comment on YouTube. We read them all and there was one listener who thought that I said that I tried a clearance cream on my skin and it turned it all pink, but I actually Meant to say a Clarence cream, which still sounds like clearance turned Clarence, which turned my skin baby pink.

[Joanna Coles]

And I got comments about why didn't I comb my hair? Why didn't I brush my hair? And that's because everybody gets the side of my head, which is unfortunate. That tussled styling supposed to look purpose.

[Samantha Bee]

It's tussled.

[Joanna Coles]

If you're not a subscriber to the Daily Beast, it's so easy to sign up. Just go to thedailybeast.com membership podcast. But actually, thedailybeast.com is also just fine. I don't know why they give us such a long one. It's just DailyBeast.com super easy.

[Samantha Bee]

Find it. My God. Everyone's like, no. Oh, please, just say it.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, well, DailyBeast.com membership podcast.

[Samantha Bee]

As my personal muse once said, be best everyone. This time I mean it.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought you were going to say something else. I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to use a little expression in German.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes, I am. Hold on. I have to look at it up. Hold on. I wrote it down.

[Joanna Coles]

This is from the hot mics. There's nothing better than a hot mic situation.

[Samantha Bee]

Better.

[Joanna Coles]

Unless it is one mic.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay, I'm going to say it's.

[Joanna Coles]

And then it's terrifying. Even when I don't have a mic on, I'm convinced I might make a hot mic moment.

[Samantha Bee]

This is my hot mic moment.

[Joanna Coles]

That's all right. Just remind me what that means. Again. Again.

[Samantha Bee]

How long are we going to stick with this? Okay, I'm going to. I'm going to say it one more time.

[Joanna Coles]

So good. I feel like I should get my passport out and give it to you.

[Samantha Bee]

I like that. I had to make it really nasal, though. Like he literally sound like a character in a movie about. Anyways, yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

See you next week. The Daily Beast podcast is produced by Sarah Demonkoft, Svea Baron Reinstein, Jesse Cannon, and Seamus Calder. Additional writing by Sasha Seinfeld, edited by Deanna Chapman and engineered for the last time because he's going back to college by Cameron Schenken. Thank you, Cameron, for all your work.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much. Was it you who wrote the email about Joanna combing her hair?

[Joanna Coles]

He's going to study jazz piano.

[Samantha Bee]

What? Incredible.

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[Freddie Wong]

In all caps if you're a facilities manager at a university, you know students rely on the cafeteria for breakfast, lunch, dinner and the occasional late night snack. So when a dishwasher breaks down and dirty plates pile up, the mess hall can turn messy in the blink of an eye. Enter Grainger with over a million industrial grade products and fast delivery, the product you need now is never far away away. So you can turn that dishwasher back into a lean, clean washing machine. Call click ranger.com or just stop by Ranger for the ones who get it done.

[Rocket Money Advertiser]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money Houston. Houston, we have a problem and that's too many subscriptions that I don't know about because I like to put my credit card number into sites just for the sheep. Your thrill of it. That's the fundamental problem of the Internet and money, and Rocket Money is here to solve that. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps lower your bills. You can see all those subscriptions that you've accrued over a lifetime of putting your credit card in on the Internet in one place. If you don't want them, just cancel them. With a few taps, Rocket Money can help with that. Rocket Money's over 5 million users and it's saved a total of $500 million in canceled subscriptions, saving members up to $740 a year when using all the app's premium features. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com cancelsubs. That's rocketmoney.com cancelsubs, not submarines.