Real Reason Trump Lost It at Key Ally: Wolff

Summary

Inside Trump's Head – “Real Reason Trump Lost It at Key Ally: Wolff”

The Daily Beast | Hosts: Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles | March 20, 2026

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Episode Overview

This episode dissects Donald Trump’s psychology and leadership during the ongoing Middle East conflict, focusing on his involvement with key figures like Jared Kushner, MAGA influencers, and internal White House dynamics. Wolff and Coles analyze how Trump’s impulsive decision-making, reliance on specific advisors, and shifting allegiances are reshaping the MAGA movement and the future of the Republican Party. The episode is packed with firsthand gossip, inside intel, and sharp, sometimes darkly humorous, observations about MAGA’s civil war, conspiratorial undercurrents, and the reemergence of antisemitism in U.S. politics.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Qatari-Israel-Iran Incident & Trump’s Response

• Jared Kushner’s Influence

  • Trump’s odd late-night “Truth Social” post about the U.S. having “no knowledge” of Israel’s attack on Iran’s South Pas Gas Field was a reaction to pressure from Qatar via Jared Kushner.
  • Michael Wolff reveals:

    “He wrote this because Jared called him up and said, the Qatarians are furious...and he said, okay, I’ll take care of it.” (00:29, 06:27)

• Disregard for Precedent and Preparation

  • Trump’s assumption that Iran would not retaliate after bombings is mocked:
  • Joanna Coles:

    “He’s trying to obliterate a country and he thinks they’re not going to respond. Is this because they didn’t respond last week when we obliterated them the first time?” (03:22)

  • Coles likens Trump’s attitude to a child’s:

    “Well, I hit you, but you weren’t supposed to hit me back.” (03:41)

• Military Escalation

  • Discussion about U.S. Marines deploying to keep the Strait of Hormuz open, indicating Trump’s old-school belief that “bombing can solve all problems.” (02:11–04:43)

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2. Splits Within the MAGA Movement

• Factionalism & Podcasts as Power Bases

  • MAGA is fragmenting between anti-war, conspiracy-minded influencers and traditional, staunchly pro-Israel Republicans.
  • Key figures on each side:
    • Anti-war/Conspiratorial: Tucker Carlson, Megyn Kelly, Nick Fuentes
    • Pro-Israel/Mainstream: Mark Levin, Laura Loomer, Ben Shapiro
      Joanna:

    “This feels like... the podcast war, actually, or the podcast party.” (22:11)

• Emergence of Antisemitism

  • Wolff details that conspiratorial MAGA discussions are again laced with Jewish control tropes:

    “It all adds up to the Jews and the Jews are behind everything...the oldest conspiracy in the book.” (09:09–09:11)

  • Division maps strikingly onto religio-ethnic lines (“gentiles vs. Jews”):

    “Let’s do the obvious, too. This is really a division between gentiles and Jews, kind of stark.” (23:15)

  • On the far-right fringe:

    “Israel is the Epstein State.” (24:36)

• Potential Political Consequences

  • Michael Wolff:

    “It brings back this incredibly toxic and very emotional issue into American politics…breaks from the mainstream of the Republican Party.” (26:10–27:49)

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3. White House Power Struggles & Key Players

• Jared Kushner’s Outsized Role

  • Described as “the son-in-law who ate the father-in-law” for his control over Trump and lucrative post-White House deals.:

    “Jared is good at playing his father-in-law. That’s the Jared secret. That’s why Jared is the only real success of the first administration.” (43:54)

  • Speculation about his manipulations and deals—“raising money from all of the people in the [Gulf] region.” (45:57)

• Isolating Non-Interventionists

  • MAGA’s isolationists (e.g., Joe Kent, Tulsi Gabbard, J.D. Vance) are being sidelined.
  • “This White House has managed to push out all of the, I guess, isolationists, for lack of a better word.” (13:22)
  • Tulsi Gabbard’s awkward position; she’s anti-intervention but now defending a war.:

    “She has to preserve her job. But she’s now putting her in quite a difficult position because she is explicitly there to defend this war.” (17:14)

• Traditional Republicans Reasserting Themselves

  • Susie Wiles, Marco Rubio, Lindsey Graham, and other “RINOs” find stronger footing in advising Trump.:

    “What we have now seen is Trump basically embrace...traditional rhino Republican aggressive foreign policy moves.” (18:35–19:59)

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4. Trump’s Decision Making: Bombast Over Strategy

• Consistently Unprepared

  • Wolff: “There was no preparation here. He paid attention to nothing. Any warnings that were given him, he ignored or looked beyond or waved away and it was back to obliteration.” (03:56)

• On the Importance of Blame in Trump’s Worldview

  • With old scapegoats gone, Trump risks running out of people to blame:

    “The interesting thing is...he may have...run out of people to blame. So when he runs out of people to blame, that means it’s just him.” (34:22)

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5. The Global Fallout: Putin and Xi

• Putin Profits from Chaos

  • “I’m assuming Putin is the happiest man on Earth. Oil is at $120 a barrel. Nobody is talking about Ukraine.” (36:44)
  • Wolff humorously notes that the U.S. has removed sanctions on Russian oil, to Putin’s immense benefit. (37:15)

• Trump’s China Trip Delayed

  • Delay attributed to “bad vibes” from China amid the war:

    “...let’s not go there because we’re not going to produce anything good out of that meeting.” (38:49–39:13)

  • Past struggles with pronouncing Xi Jinping’s name recounted humorously (37:54–38:07)

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6. The New Face of MAGA Antisemitism

• Antisemitism as Political Fault Line

  • Wolff warns of the issue’s potency for influencers like Tucker Carlson:

    “...certainly among younger voters, younger male voters. I mean, this is a really, a potentially powerful issue for Tucker or for anybody who wants to grab it.” (42:23)

  • New Trump/MAGA antisemitism may split the movement, or potentially toxify the right overall. (50:25–51:19)

• Tucker Carlson’s Opportunism

  • Wolff shares a personal anecdote:

    “[Tucker] said, I’m not anti-Semitic. I’m anti-Catholic.” (32:56)

  • Both hosts agree Carlson is “incredibly smart, an amazing gossip, and one of the most opportunistic people I’ve ever met.” (31:50)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• On Trump’s Forgetfulness and Self-Justification (on oil embargo):

  • “Why didn’t anyone tell me that they could essentially put an embargo on much of the world’s oil? Why didn’t anyone tell me that?” (41:43)

• On the Enduring Power of Conspiracy (on antisemitism):

  • “Never underestimate how much that is just a primitive emotion that when tapped, just emerges.” (42:57)

• On the Current State of MAGA:

  • “He may have...run out of people to blame. So when he runs out of people to blame, that means it’s just him.” (34:22)
  • “We’re actually watching [the MAGA split] happening in real time.” (52:35)

• Podcaster Fights as Political Factionalism:

  • “Is it Mark Levin or Mark Levin of the micropenis, according to Megyn Kelly?” (22:11)
  • “Who would you put your money on to survive?...I’d put my money on Tucker.” (31:32–31:34)

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Important Timestamps

• Introduction to Qatar episode (00:29)
• Dissecting Trump’s response to Iran’s retaliation (02:54–03:52)
• Analysis of MAGA’s factional fight (04:43–13:52; revisited at 22:11)
• Wolff on Jared Kushner’s rise (07:20, 43:54)
• Antisemitism and MAGA’s conspiracy spiral (09:11–11:22, 23:15–24:36, 42:57)
• Tulsi Gabbard’s dilemma (15:01–17:29)
• Traditional Republicans’ resurgence (18:33–21:55)
• Putin and global fallout (36:44–37:34)
• The MAGA/Podcast split (22:11–24:33, 31:32)
• Tucker Carlson’s calculated opportunism (31:50–32:56)
• Closing on MAGA split as existential for GOP (50:25–51:19, 52:32–52:37)

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Tone & Style

• Candid, irreverent, and gossipy: Wolff is puckish and full of inside baseball; Coles often incredulous with classic British dry wit.
• Quotes are delivered verbatim; hosts revel in the absurdity and high-stakes drama.
• Recurring themes: Trump’s unpredictability, the Republican Party’s civil war, the MAGA movement’s descent into conspiracy and antisemitism, and the destabilizing power of right-wing influencers.

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Concluding Takeaways

• Trump’s uncertain, often impulsive decision-making has left both his inner circle and the Republican base fractured.
• Jared Kushner’s shadowy influence centers power and financial opportunity close to Trump.
• MAGA’s antisemitic undercurrents and podcast-driven civil war threaten to upend the GOP in a way unseen since the early twentieth century.
• As global events spiral, Trump “doesn’t know what to do” but remains convinced of his own ability, always seeking someone else to blame.
• The podcast ends with an assessment that this internal conflict will reshape American politics—and potentially, the future of right-wing populism in America.

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(Listener engagement, limericks, and lighter asides have been omitted for focus on core content.)

Transcript

[Joanna Coles]

This episode is brought to you by Nespresso introducing Vertuo up, the latest in a long line of innovation from Nespresso. It's innovation you can touch, sense and taste in every single cup. With a three second start, easy open lever and dedicated brew over ice button, it's even easier to enjoy your coffee your way. Sip for yourself. Shop Vertuo up [e-mail] why did he write this?

[Michael Wolff]

He wrote this because Jared called him up and said, the Qatarians are furious. You gotta do something here. They're hopping mad. And he said, okay, I'll take care of it. I'll take care of it. The Israelis were put over to the side and the emphasis was then on the Qatarians, who are among Jared's many clients in the region. The calls that I got yesterday, I spent a long time on the phone yesterday, was again a confirmation. Their confirmation. Yes, Jared is behind all this.

[Joanna Coles]

Michael. Joanna, so nice to have you back in person. Although it's very confusing because I am used to doing doing this with you on Tuesdays in the studio and today it's Thursday. So we've all been thrown off by your travel schedule.

[Michael Wolff]

I think we can handle it.

[Joanna Coles]

Can we handle it?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I'm counting on it.

[Joanna Coles]

Week three, week three of the war that was going to be over immediately, that was just going to be a bombing exhibition and incursion and excursion. Who knows what it was going to be.

[Michael Wolff]

It occurs to me just thinking this, the war is going to be over soon. I guess that is said about, literally about every war. Nobody has ever gone into a war and said this is going to last and last and going to sink into a quagmire. But we always do sink into a quagmire, right?

[Joanna Coles]

And also this was not going to involve any troops on the ground. And now Marines are getting ready to go and keep open the Strait of Hormuz.

[Michael Wolff]

The interesting thing about that is that if that happens, nobody seems to have another recipe for how to keep the Strait of Hormuz open. So therefore, except with United States Marines. And that means that once you do that, they have to stay there.

[Joanna Coles]

Right? And also, why weren't they there in the first place? Why didn't anybody anticipate this? And the thing I am shocked about is how Donald Trump talks about this war. And again, it's hard to be shocked by Donald Trump. But can we just listen to this clip of him talking about how he was surprised that the Iranians decided to fight back?

[Michael Wolff]

Can we listen to a Trump clip? Bring it on in the last two weeks. They weren't supposed to go after all these other countries in the Middle East. Those missiles were set to go after them. So they hit Qatar, Saudi Arabia, uae, Bahrain, Kuwait. Nobody expected that. We were shocked. I mean, this is a. Everybody expected that. But what is the man saying?

[Joanna Coles]

I don't know. I mean, we were shocked. What is he talking about? He's trying to obliterate a country and he thinks they're not going to respond. Is this because they didn't respond last week when we obliterated them the first time?

[Michael Wolff]

I have no idea.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, it's insane that he sits there and says that like a kind of five year old, well, I hit you, but you weren't supposed to hit me back.

[Michael Wolff]

He's, I mean, I'm trying to.

[Joanna Coles]

He's just insane.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm pausing. Cause it's virtually impossible to explain this. You can only explain this by saying there was no preparation here. He paid attention to nothing. Any warnings that were given him, he ignored or looked beyond or waved away and it was back to obliteration. We're going to obliterate these people. And in fact, he said, when the issue of the Straits of Hormuz was brought up, he said, we're going to take them out before they do that. So it's literally that most fundamental mistake, you know, quite a modern mistake, of thinking that bombing can solve all problems.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And the air power is the only thing that matters. So we're going inside Trump's head. We're going to explore what's happening in the war. We're also going to explore what's happening in the MAGA base because we've now got, and we'll come onto this in a minute, but we've got very divided camps. So we have Tucker Carlson, we've got Megyn Kelly. I think they're joined by Nick Fuentes, who are all on one side saying this war is a disaster. And then we've got Mark Levin, or Mark Levin, Laura Loomer, who's looming up again, and Ben Shapiro saying, no, this is the right thing to do. So I want to come onto that. I also want to come onto the

[Michael Wolff]

Gentiles versus the Jews, dare I say.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, well, we can get into that. And then I'm very curious to know what's inside Donald Trump's head about Hegseth. But before we go there, I wanted to read out a truth Social, you know, thundered out by Donald Trump, which makes no sense whatsoever. This was sent out last night, early this Morning. And again, the grammar is complicated. It gives us an insight into the kind of. Well, as this design shows.

[Michael Wolff]

Just read it.

[Joanna Coles]

You don't. I'm just gonna read it. But it's all right.

[Michael Wolff]

It does explain itself.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, okay. Israel, out of anger for what has taken place in the Middle east, has violently lashed out at a major facility known as South Pas Gas Field in Iran. A relatively small section of the hole has been hit. The United States knew nothing about this particular attack, and the country of Qatar was in no way, shape or form involved with it, nor did it have any idea that it was going to happen. I mean, it's just not true.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, it's obviously not true, but let's think about what happened here. Why did he write this? He wrote this because Jared called him up and said, the Qatarians are furious. You gotta do something here. They're hopping mad. And he said, okay, I'll take care of it, I'll take care of it. This is it.

[Joanna Coles]

And then the Israelis have come out and said, of course you knew about it. We told you about it.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, it's just the Israelis were put over to the side. And the emphasis was then on the Qatarians, who are among Jared's many clients in the region.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. So as you mentioned before, Jared is actually running things. And Trump thought that he could just put this out. What are you hearing? Cause I know you've been talking to people. What are you hearing about what people are saying?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, it's really, really interesting. So we discussed my view of Jared's participation in this, that Jared is the controlling voice, he is the heavyweight with his father in law. And I think I said, he's the son in law who ate.

[Joanna Coles]

Who ate the father in law. And then you did that image of a snake dislocating its jaw, which is what snakes do to eat something that's three times their size.

[Michael Wolff]

So this prompted several conversations and calls to me from what I would describe as MAGA people. Now, there's an interesting thing about this, and I think it's a misunderstanding of some of the MAGA currents that. I mean, we see the MAGA people as intensely ideological, intensely right wing, leading with. With immigration and the furthest kind of Trump policies. And that's certainly true. But there is another aspect of MAGA which is not necessarily ideological. It is more conspiratorial.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, interesting. I thought you were going to say it's more pragmatic and more moderate, but

[Michael Wolff]

no, no, it is. I mean, it may be if you extend that out, but nevertheless, it's always in the context of the conspiracy of who is controlling who, of what the real agenda is. And, and in, in, in, in some sense, I am afraid it all kinds of adds up to, to the Jews and the Jews are behind everything, which is.

[Joanna Coles]

You mean antisemitism.

[Michael Wolff]

The oldest conspiracy. The conspiracy in the book. But at any rate, and you may ask, why do I talk to these people? They talk to me. I somehow become a. I was going to say a mirror, but it's actually more like just a piece of glass that they kind of talk through. Because I listen. I suppose that's the reason I just listen.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. Your repository for this.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I don't, I mean, I find it actually fascinating. So that's why you, why you listen. But at the same time, yes, you should say, oh, my God, get away from me. But these are two sides of this. But the calls that I got yesterday, I spent a long time on the phone yesterday, was, was again a confirmation. Their confirmation. Yes, Jared is behind all this. And then there's a kind of rush to now associate Jared with the Alexander brothers. You might recall that the Alexander brothers were three brothers in the real estate business. Kind of real estate salesmen to the stars and real estate salesmen to the, to the billionaire class.

[Joanna Coles]

And. Based in Florida. Right?

[Michael Wolff]

Based in Florida, but also in New York. I think wherever your $10 million plus homes are sold, you find the Alexander brothers, who are also Jewish there, is actually originally Israeli or their parents were, were Israeli. But that was the kind of thing to make that association. Jared and the Alexander brothers.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, because the Alexander brothers have just been found guilty of rape.

[Michael Wolff]

Found guilty of a long list of.

[Joanna Coles]

Wasn't it rape?

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. Rape and abuse. Who knows?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, I mean, they're terrible, terrible people.

[Michael Wolff]

Terrible people. And this was kind of described in this. So, you know, let's. Kushner is Jewish, the Alexanders are Jewish. And the MAGA description, the Alexander brothers are. This is a direct. Are Jared's muscle. Now, again, this is, I'm trying to do this in a way. We certainly are not in any way inside this conspiracy, but this represents a very, I think, a really important theme in understanding what is going on in the Trump universe now. And this view, I mean, this view is absolutely in every way opposed to this war, to the Iranian war, clearly sees the linkage here to Israel. I mean, it's an explicit linkage. We are doing this on Israel's behest. We are doing this because Netanyahu has tricked Donald Trump. So, I mean, this now rises to A central issue among part of the MAGA base. And one of the things that was in these conversations that I had yesterday is that this White House has managed to push out all of the, I guess, isolationists, for lack of a better word. Is that the word? Yes, I think that is.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, America first.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. But strictly the isolation is we don't want any foreign involvement. It's an absolutist case. So their view is that all of these people have been pushed out of the inner circle of the White House. And this is also relevant. And I suspect this had to do with some of these calls yesterday with. With pushing out. What's the name?

[Joanna Coles]

Joe Kent.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes, exactly.

[Joanna Coles]

So Joe Kent, the head of the National Security.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. Cause he clearly a. He really is a conspiracist, but very much aligned with this MAGA view.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, so he was working for Tulsi Gabbard. Tulsi Gabbard's been appearing at the intelligence hearings, really saying almost nothing. And when asked if there was evidence that it looked like Iran might be imminently about to attack, the US Just said, that's not our job to predict that. Which is insane, because as Jon Ossoff pointed out, the senator from Georgia, that's exactly their job. But she said, oh, the president is the only person who can assess the level of risk. She's actually giving evidence. We're recording this on Thursday morning. She's giving more evidence as we speak. But my point is, Jo Kent worked for Tulsi Gabbard. We know that Tulsi Gabbard isn't in favor of war, so she's still around, but she seems to have been silenced a bit. What about J.D. vance?

[Michael Wolff]

Let's go back to Tulsi for a second, because it sounded to me also like she was putting the blame on the boss. Now, the last time that happened, which was just last week, that cost Kristi Noem her job. So all of these people are having an enormous problem articulating what is going on. And they are. They have found themselves, you know, particularly Tulsi Gabbard, who's a. Who's a. Who's a. And we'll get to Tucker Carlson, but she's. Tulsi Gabbard is in many ways a Tucker Carlson creation. I mean, she came to prominence because he kept featuring her day after day after day when he had his Fox show.

[Joanna Coles]

We should just remind people that she's a former Democratic congresswoman. She served in Iraq and Afghanistan, and she went on an unapproved trip to Syria.

[Michael Wolff]

And while she was a Democrat. She was under serious consideration for the UN ambassadorship when Trump was elected in 2016.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And she grew up as part of a cult. She's a very intriguing character, not least that strange streak in her hair which seems to have gone black again.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. No Tulsi Gabbard as Susan Sontag, except

[Joanna Coles]

she's so the opposite of Susan Sontag. But she's nevertheless an intriguing, puzzling black box of a character, as so many of them are.

[Michael Wolff]

But she's also one. She grows up out of that MAGA point of view, which is very much in the Tucker Carlson point of view. Very much. No foreign involvements. But she's also incredibly ambitious, or as Steve Bannon would say, as ambitious as Lucifer.

[Joanna Coles]

What a great description. I mean, there are a lot of them that have that.

[Michael Wolff]

And so she is in this thing. So she has to preserve her job. But she's now putting her in quite a difficult position because she is explicitly there to defend this war.

[Joanna Coles]

And she literally said it was not the Intelligence Service's job to assess the risk. The only person who could have.

[Michael Wolff]

So all of these. Yes. And we're going to start to see that. We are seeing this, but we will see it more and more that these people who have come out of the magaside and we're looking here toward as this kind of comes apart, I think we're gonna see this day by day and in real time. J.D. vance. Where is J.D.

[Joanna Coles]

vance? Well, where is J.D. vance?

[Michael Wolff]

Totally. Totally. And he obviously, too, comes out of this side of the equation.

[Joanna Coles]

And he's also a conspiracy theorist, as Susie Wiles told us, of course. And Joe Kent gave his resignation or told JD Vance he was going to resign before he announced it and before he told Donald Trump.

[Michael Wolff]

Exactly. And let's enter into a little bit of conspiratorial thinking on this and go back to Susie Wiles, who we just did a special show about.

[Joanna Coles]

Yep. Last Saturday.

[Michael Wolff]

And because she is. Susie Wiles is. Has always been absolutely aligned with traditional Republican politics. She's as rhino as you get. And she is very much aligned with Marco Rubio, also as rino, as neocon, as classic in the Republican defense of Israel, of the use of the military, all of these kind of generational Republican themes which Trump is supposed to be against, but obviously not. And what we have now seen is Trump basically embrace. He is actively now every day in the embrace of these traditional rhino. Republican aggressive foreign policy moves, which is. Let's do this. Susie Wiles. Susie Wiles, who is the person, the operational person of the Trump government who is very much in this camp, but also specifically in the Marco Rubio camp.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. She used to work for Marco Rubio.

[Michael Wolff]

Let's remind people she used to work for Marco Rubio. She was the, the person in the Trump circle actively promoting Marco Rubio as the Vice President. Let's assume, I think it's fair to assume, she is now actively promoting Marco Rubio as a future president.

[Joanna Coles]

So this is really Trump's evolution from America first to neocon. I mean, he's getting sucked in now with Marines going into Carg island to protect the Strait of Hormuz. I mean, this is exactly what happens to people often in their second term. I saw it happen repeatedly in the UK where things are not going well at home. We've got the Epstein files here. We've got, let's not forget, we've got ice here and Mark Wayne Mullen flexing his muscles at his Select Committee confirmation hearing. So it's a mess at home. Trump doesn't want to focus at home. He's focusing abroad. He thought he was just going to be able to bomb the hell out of Iran, but turns out, surprise, surprise, we're shocked. The Iranians are fighting back.

[Michael Wolff]

And let's just go to. There is, and it's important to remember this, that of all of, yes, Trump, White House, maga, the power of maga, Steve Bannon, Tucker, this kind of noise. But the Republican Party is still very much entrenched. You have, you know, you have, you have Cruz, you have Lindsey Graham. And these are the people, especially Lindsey Graham, who are in Trump's ear. So literally in Trump's head.

[Joanna Coles]

A strange thought to have Lindsey Graham whispering fruitily in your eyes.

[Michael Wolff]

And he is, yes, no. And Lindsey Graham is one of the great whisperers and one of the great traditional rhino Republican. You know, I never had a new thought in, haven't had a new thought in a generation kind of guy.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And he certainly had a resurgence. I mean, he was sort of lying somewhat dormant, and now he's made himself relevant again. He's a survivor is really what I'm saying. Okay, so let's talk about this division. So we now have Megyn Kelly and Tucker Carlson and Nick Fuentes, all of whom have loud podcasts. This is also, I mean, remember how the last election, everybody was saying, oh, it was the, it was the podcast election. It was the podcast election. This feels like it's the podcast war, actually, or the podcast party. So you've got Meghan, you've got Tucker, you've got Nick Fuentes and then you've got Laura Loomer, you've got Ben Shapiro and you've got Mark Levin. Is it Mark Levin or Mark Levin of the micro penis, according to Megyn Kelly? He says Megyn Kelly is neurotic. He said that she was emotionally unhinged and lewd. And she. She retorted by saying, well, you've got a micro penis. I mean, what is this, fourth grade? Not even. It's so weird and peculiar to me. Whatever. There's big division there and they all have loud.

[Michael Wolff]

I mean, let's do the obvious, too. This is really a division between gentiles and Jews, kind of stark. And on the. The Carlson, Fuentes, Kelly side, it is. This is specifically their view is against Israel. I mean.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Nick Fuentes is against almost everything as far as I can see.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, they're all.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, let's get a particularly unpleasant man.

[Michael Wolff]

Unpleasant, but incredibly compelling. Incredibly good at what he does.

[Joanna Coles]

No, he's an effective broadcaster and he has young. I mean, young men seem to like him and they love embracing them. Well, not all young men, I should say, but some young men. Yeah.

[Michael Wolff]

No, but let's. I mean, let's. So let's. There's a couple of distinctions to make here between Israel and antisemitism, which I think that we should get to, but very much lining up here. What's the opposition is. On the one side, we don't want. Not only do we not have any. Want anything to do with. With supporting Israel, we believe Israel is mendacious and at the root of everything that is going wrong.

[Joanna Coles]

So the ultimate conspiracy theory, right?

[Michael Wolff]

Israel is the Epstein State.

[Joanna Coles]

Israel is the Epstein State. That's such a.

[Michael Wolff]

And then on the other side, you know, you have Levin, Shapiro, Loomer, who are. Who are all Jews, who very much take that traditional. And it is traditional. This is exactly what nobody, no one in American politics for three generations has basically deviated from the view that the United States has to support. Do anything possible to support Israel, and they remain on that side. So. But then we have this view that. Well, we have. The development here is that Israel is really responsible for this war or Israel is certainly a key participant in this. So if you are opposed to war, and remember, there's a great part of the Trump base that voted for Trump on the. Because. He swore his opposition to forever wars. So we now have Israel that has caused us to go to war. And so therefore Israel is part of this conspiracy that has done this to Donald Trump, who has taken the MAGA movement, essentially, and subverted it. And of course, these are Jews. And so let's not forget about that. And let's go back to the thing that has. I mean, we're dealing with the far right wing. The far right wing has made this resurgence in American politics on the back of Donald Trump. And the far right wing and in the United States has always been that antisemitism has been a key part of it. And that's been dormant for the Republican Party for a long time. The Republican Party and the conservative movement has managed to achieve the success it has achieved largely because it pushed those people to the margins. We don't want to have anything to do with that. And that was always, by the way, part of the embrace of Israel. We embrace Israel and that sort of cleanses our antisemitism problem. But now all this is coming back, and, you know, I think it will recast. I mean, it does a couple of things. At first, it brings back this incredibly toxic and very emotional issue into American politics, and it breaks from the mainstream of the Republican Party. The mainstream.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it breaks from mainstream politics. Right. But isn't this also, interestingly, where the far right meets the far left? Because the far left has taken up very anti Israel positions, too, largely because of Gaza, and especially among the younger people who don't really know what the Holocaust was.

[Michael Wolff]

Absolutely. And I think the Democrats, though, have a kind of respite from this now because this is such a internal Republican issue that I think the Democrats can say, pay no attention to our fringe people, because, I mean, the fight is going on among Republicans. So Carlson, Fuentes, and Kelly, obviously all right wingers. Levin, Shapiro, Loomer. All right wingers. So it's a fight that the Democrats would be wise to just sit back and.

[Joanna Coles]

No, no. When your enemy's committing suicide, let them carry on and doing it. I mean, I just suddenly thought, are we. Cause clearly Tucker Carlson is going to want to run for president. Is this a Tucker and Megan ticket?

[Michael Wolff]

No. They may seem to get along, but I don't think anybody gets along with Megan.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, is that right?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

So what about J.D. vance? I mean, what's happened to the vice president? He seems to have disappeared. I mean, he's been given benefits fraud. Trump literally said to him, here's a benefits fraud portfolio for you to go and sort out, which is one of those. It's like giving Kamala Harris the border.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. No, I mean, he's in a position. He gets to survive this. If he survives it in Other words, if he can straddle this, and he's looking at this, I'm sure he's looking at this and saying, okay, if I have any hope of being the President of the United States, if I have any hope of getting the nomination to possibly be the President of the United States, I got to hold together these MAGA crazies and these rhino guys in the. In the Senate.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. And just remind me what's happening with Turning Point usa? So we've got Erica Kirk out there now trying to shoehorn it into schools. Where is Turning Point on this?

[Michael Wolff]

You know, I think they're. They're. Turning Point is left as a. As a. That's just kind of the spoils in the middle of this. Who's going to get Turning Point? Is it gonna be Mark Levin? Is it gonna be Tucker Carlson?

[Joanna Coles]

Who would you say were the better performers, slash podcasters, between Megan, Nick Fuentes and Tucker Carlson, all of whom are enormous podcasters, but so is Ben Shapiro. Laura Loomer seems to whisper into Trump's ear. And Mark Levin is on fox. Who would you put money on?

[Michael Wolff]

Mark Levin is on Fox. No, but he has a pod. He has a podcast, too. He's not. He's not a. A permanent FOX guy, is he?

[Joanna Coles]

I am going to confess that I have not listened to Mark Levin's podcast.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, no, no, he is, and he's okay. So between podcasts and who cares if it's a podcast? These are all broadcasts.

[Joanna Coles]

They're all people with platforms. They're all people with platforms, big names, and more importantly, they have followers. Although I'm sure that there are people listening to all of them. Who would you put your money on to survive?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, to survive in what form? These people all have big audiences to

[Joanna Coles]

take MAGA base with them. If MAGA splits in two,

[Michael Wolff]

you know, I mean, I'd put my money on Tucker.

[Joanna Coles]

I would, too. I think. We're not saying we agree with him. We're just saying that of the. He seems the most strangely plausible as a. As someone with a platform.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. I mean, the interest. I mean, I've known Tucker for a very long time. I know him well. I like him. I like spending time with him. I think he's incredibly smart, he's an amazing gossip, And he is one of the most opportunistic people I've ever met in a lifetime of meeting opportunistic people.

[Joanna Coles]

So he's going to make anti Semitism his opportunity,

[Michael Wolff]

as so many people have so many times in history. Yes, yes. I mean, I once had this kind of interesting conversation with or telling conversation with Tucker, and he was complaining that he was being accused of antisemitism. And he said, I'm not anti Semitic. He said, I'm anti Catholic.

[Joanna Coles]

What does that even mean?

[Michael Wolff]

Well, it means. It actually makes sense. First thing, I'm sure he is. If he needs to be anti Semitic, he'll be anti Semitic. But what it also means is he really is located in the kind of Republicans of the 1920s, Charles Lindbergh, America. That is America first. And that was always first and foremost. Anti Catholic Catholics were the immigrants. Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Oy yai yai.

[Michael Wolff]

So this is all returning. So much of this. So much of this, which has been marginalized for so long has come roaring back.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, roaring back and into the open. Into the open, yes.

[Michael Wolff]

No, completely. I mean, because anybody can say anything on podcasts, for one thing. We can blame it on podcasts, but we should also blame it on Donald Trump, of course, because he's the one who has opened the political discussion to any of this. I mean, essentially, he's opened the political discussion to hell. Whatever works.

[Joanna Coles]

To whatever works. Yes. That's exactly what he's done. So what is inside Trump's head about Pete Hegseth? Because Pete Hegseth must be seeing himself as a contender for 2028, too.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I think he's probably fine with Hegseth as long as Hegseth toes the line, and I think he probably likes it. Hegseth is the one out there now. So at any point, Hegseth is the person he can blame. And remember, Trump is always looking for the person to blame. He has survived on blame. The interesting thing is that having survived all these years, 10 years now, he may have, and I think this is part of the issue, run out of people to blame. So when he runs out of people to blame, that means it's just him.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, is he going to, at some point blame Netanyahu over this? Because then that would make it look like he'd somehow been duped by Netanyahu.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I think. Yeah, I think that that's a problem. He can't. I think that goes to a broader issue. He's stuck in this situation.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

And so the idea, and we talked about this in the earliest days of the bombing, that he would have a couple of days of bombing, declare victory, the Ayatollah dead, get out. But as soon as he went beyond that, and it was kind of like, okay, the Ayatollah, that was the moment we could claim victory. That was the Maduro moment. Claim victory. But he didn't do that. He kept going on, partly probably because of Netanyahu and what the Israelis were doing. But having done that, he now finds himself stuck.

[Joanna Coles]

Stuck. Right.

[Michael Wolff]

And so who to blame? I think this is gonna be a complicated. I think he doesn't know who to blame right now.

[Joanna Coles]

So what's going on inside Putin's head? Because America's basically taken out Venezuela. It keeps saying, Donald Trump keeps saying, I can do whatever I want with Cuba. And. And they've obliterated, double obliterated Iran. If you're Putin, are you sitting there thinking, well, I've got no allies left.

[Michael Wolff]

I'm assuming Putin is the happiest man on Earth. Oil is at $120 a barrel. Nobody is talking about Ukraine. Ukraine, remember Ukraine? I'm sure he's waking up and thinking, thinking, my God, can you be luckier than me?

[Joanna Coles]

But you don't think he's thinking, wait a minute, my allies have all been taken out. Donald Trump is weirdly unpredictable. What if he did this to me?

[Michael Wolff]

No, I think he's thinking, we're making. I saw the figures. It's like billions a day. And we've just opened up Russian oil. We've just taken the sanctions off of Russian oil. It's an amazing. It's Putin's world.

[Joanna Coles]

And what about how significant is the delay to the China trip? We know that Donald Trump was incredibly excited about going to China because Xi was going to put on. President Xi was going to put on this fabulous parade for.

[Michael Wolff]

I just wanted to fold. I remember during the first term,

[Joanna Coles]

how

[Michael Wolff]

long they spent the people around Trump getting him to pronounce the name correctly. He couldn't do it. They had to. It was always Z. Z.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I'm sorry.

[Michael Wolff]

And then they would say, xi like a woman.

[Joanna Coles]

She like a woman. Interesting. Okay, well, President Xi. Donald Trump was expecting the mother of all parades. Right. And when they put on a parade, they really do put on a parade. And even they have the soldiers the same height, which is incredible. Right. So that when you look across them, it's just the most astonishing formation. Anyway, his trip to China has been delayed. What is going on in Xi's head?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I don't know.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, what is. Okay, so let's go. You're on a lot of head. All right, so let's go back to what's inside Trump's head about delaying the trip.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I'm not in Asian. Asian head.

[Joanna Coles]

So. But what is going on in Trump's Head delaying the trip. Do we know that? Because he said, oh, I can't leave. He said, in theory because of the

[Michael Wolff]

war, I assume they've done that. They were getting bad vibes from the Chinese. And so that was like, let's not go there because that's, we're not going to produce anything good out of that meeting.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Michael Wolff]

So all of the, the good vibes that we had hoped for, or at least none of the bad vibes was not going to happen. So let's cancel that trip. That's why those trips are canceled.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Okay. So disappointing and also bad news for the Qataris, really, because they're being bombed and they supplied him with this huge free air Force one. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.

[Michael Wolff]

No, listen, it's a problem. He doesn't know. I mean, let's just imagine this. You're the commander in chief, you have a war going on and it is all above your head, Right.

[Joanna Coles]

And you don't know what to do about it.

[Michael Wolff]

You don't know what to do. And also, although I'm trying to think so inside, because Trump doesn't ever think that. He thinks he always knows what to do. And he's at any given moment on the phone telling people what to do and they're either not doing it because it's crazy or they are doing it and then it results in some other terrible thing. Less, you know, oil goes up another $10 a barrel.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. And the real issue is that Israel wants something different out of the war than America does.

[Michael Wolff]

I assume they do, although I couldn't tell you exactly what I mean. I guess they want everyone to kill everybody who's.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, I think Israel just want Iran no longer to exist, or at least in its current form. And Donald Trump just wanted to bomb it a lot, like.

[Michael Wolff]

Well, I don't know. I mean, no, I think Donald Trump wants it not to exist also. I mean, this is the thing. I mean, you know, for almost 50 years, you know, Iran as it is constituted and as it has been constituted for almost 50 years has been a problem for everybody. And I think that was from Trump's point of view. It's like, I'm going to be a hero. We're going to get rid of these people. I'm going to finally do it. All those other jokers who were president didn't do it. But I'm a guy who is going to do it, right?

[Joanna Coles]

I have the cajones to do it. And another ex president told me he wished he'd done It. Except all the living ex presidents say, no, we didn't tell you and nobody

[Michael Wolff]

told me that they could essentially put an embargo on much of the world's oil. Why didn't anyone tell me that?

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right.

[Michael Wolff]

I think in this whole discussion of MAGA and anti Semitism, you know, I really think that we, it's, it's worth flagging that this has, is becoming a kind of that there, that certainly among younger voters, younger male voters. I mean, this is a really, a potentially powerful issue for Tucker or for anybody who wants to grab it.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and we have the candidate in Florida. What's his name? James Fischbeck.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, it's Fishback.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. We have James Fishback.

[Michael Wolff]

Weirdly sounds Jewish to me.

[Joanna Coles]

It sounds like something you would order from Barney Greengrass. Right. I'll have a quarter of Fishback. Anyway, he's now running in Florida. It's unlikely he'll win. He's running for governor, but he's got a surprisingly high support among young men in Florida who I think have seen the bombing of Gaza and, you know, didn't feel great about it.

[Michael Wolff]

I don't think that they've. I think they're just anti Semites. Never underestimate how much that is just a primitive emotion that when tapped, just emerges.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's scary that it's emerging in the way that it is and that it's. That flame is being fueled by Tucker Carlson and Megan Kelly and. Who's the other one? Nick Fuentes.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. No, and again, that is a Trump. Trump gives permission to this now. It's just a Trump irony that he suddenly finds himself on the other side of this issue.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. So what's inside Trump's head about Jared being Jewish and his daughter having converted to Judaism?

[Michael Wolff]

You know, I don't know. I think he thinks, you know, Jared is good with money.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it turns out he is good with money.

[Michael Wolff]

Yes. You know, I think. But I would look at this actually in a different way. Jared is good at playing his father in law. That's the Jared secret. That's why Jared is the only real success of the first administration. He is again, the son in law who ate the father in law. And he has adeptly managed Donald Trump. And I think he's also managed to hold out the possibility for his father in law that there is a lot of money in this.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. So they're giving themselves up to public service, but at the same time, enormous financial opportunity.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah. And it is a kind of thing. It's almost. I mean, Trump is Explicit about this, about this. Just because this is public service doesn't mean that he shouldn't also benefit that if you. I mean, I've heard him on this. He goes on at some length. You know, you're not going to attract good people as though he's good people into public service if they can't make money off of it.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, right. Which I'm sure is very much true.

[Michael Wolff]

And then Jared has done this interesting jujitsu of not having gone the White House once, and he could have gone back in this time, could have possibly gone back in as the Secretary of State, and decided not to. So he's outside of the White House, but within and therefore. Without the issues of being part of the White House, but at the same time having incredible power in it.

[Joanna Coles]

Right, well. And being able to use Trump's foreign policy, in as much as there is a foreign policy, to raise yet another fund. So let's not forget 2 billion from the Saudis. Trump won. TRUMP 2, 5 billion.

[Michael Wolff]

Right. And then in the middle of this war, with all of the raising money from all of the people in the region, as they say. Right.

[Joanna Coles]

In the Gulf states. Yeah. That Trump was surprised, got bombed by Iran. Which brings us back to the beginning. Okay, so while you were away, we received a gift from a viewer slash listener, which I'm now going to present you with. It's kind of incredible. I've never seen anything like it. And it's by someone. This is from Frank Manson. Frank, thank you. He was hoping it would cheer me up after my hip surgery, but it's for the two of us. So for people listening who can't see it, it is. Is this a monkey or a chimp? It's a sort of monkey face done as Donald Trump with a huge wedge of hair. It's a sort of plaster cast. And underneath it says DJ Epstein.

[Michael Wolff]

Okay. Who's hanging this up in their house?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I think we should hang it up in the studio. I want people to see it. It's magnificent and it's sort of plaster. Anyway, Frank, thank you very much. We've literally never had anything like this before. When it came, I just. All I wanted to do was show you. But you were staying at your posh hotel in London.

[Michael Wolff]

But maybe we should encourage. For art projects.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, Art projects. We want crafts. Arts and crafts. We. We do have poems. And we had someone. First of all, a lot of people wrote in to say, actually there've been three versions of All Quiet on the Western Front as movies. So no one thinks Donald Trump read the book. They all think that he saw one of the three movie versions. So thank you for that. Then someone sent in a marvelous description of Donald Trump's hair, which I just want to read to you. Here's the line that reminds me, Dinger 154 of the Trump lunatic. His eyes were hollows of madness, his hair like mouldy hay. Mouldy hay I thought was a very good description. Mouldy hay would be a good name for a band. I've also got a limerick from Sweden, which I got on the way. I've got some more limericks to read. The once was.

[Michael Wolff]

This is the limerick from Sweden.

[Joanna Coles]

This is a limerick from Sweden.

[Michael Wolff]

How do you do this in a Swedish accent?

[Joanna Coles]

There once was a lady Melania, whose story turned oddly to mania when Woolf wrote a book about terms of a prenup. No one could save her. Insania. I thought that was quite good. It's not bad, is it? I mean, it's not my best accent. Someone here called dinger154 says we should read the poem the Highwayman by Alfred Noyes. Have you read that in school?

[Michael Wolff]

A long, long time ago.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. Then we have someone called Lewis Hamilton that sent us a limerick. This is a good one. Our president, with no humility, built us a ballroom facility. And then for an encore, he started a war. Operation Epstein Futility. Not bad.

[Michael Wolff]

What's that guy's name?

[Joanna Coles]

Lewis Hamilton. Lewis Hamilton, yeah. Could it be the Lewis Hamilton? I don't know if he can drive cars and write limericks at the same time. That would be a multitask. And then we have, obviously, one from Garfried. Still our limerick laureate, Trump bellowed, we're crushing Iran. When Vance and Rubio ran, Wolff told Coles with a smirk, this whole thing won't work. But Jared's already got his hand in the pan. There you go, Garfried. Thank you. Do we want to ask people to subscribe?

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, but I never understood. So you subscribe. How do you do this?

[Joanna Coles]

You just subscribe. You just go to the box where it says subscribe and you press subscribe.

[Michael Wolff]

I've never seen this box.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's because you Never go on YouTube unless you're going on secretly to watch yourself, which I don't think you do, but perhaps you do.

[Michael Wolff]

Yeah, I don't, but I should.

[Joanna Coles]

You should. Anyway, please subscribe. Leave us a comment. My favorite part of today's conversation. Well, there were so many favorite parts, but I do think The Tucker Megan vs. Shapiro and loomer is a bizarro, bizarro fracture in the MAGA base. But hopefully it fractures the whole thing apart and allows for other people.

[Michael Wolff]

It is. I mean, I think it potentially is incredibly destructive for the Republican Party. And I say this not only because that would be good news, but just as a. From an analytic standpoint that. I mean, it kind of goes one of two ways. Either that antisemitic streak really just rips them apart, or it turns out again that everybody is in anti Semite and the Jews once again are cooked.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, I wonder what it says for Joshua.

[Michael Wolff]

I don't think so. I don't think so.

[Joanna Coles]

I don't think so either. I think Americans will reject that. I think Americans will completely reject it.

[Michael Wolff]

I absolutely agree.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, we have to hope for the best.

[Michael Wolff]

No, I mean, I think that this is a kind of that weird retro thing that's kind of dead on arrival. I mean, it seems horrifying and it seems like there is. And you can catch the undercurrent of this young men and whatever that is, but it's not good for the Republicans.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, it's not good for America. It's not good for anybody. All right, so join us. Become a Beebeast tier member where you get lots of extra content and dinner every other night with Michael. And that's it. You can thank our team now, I think. Oh, and you've got to please, please subscribe to our substacks. Michael's is called Howl and mine is called Primal Scream. You just go to substack and look for Michael Wolf or Joanna Coles. So we will see you on Saturday for our next episode of Inside Trump's Head. And who knows? The MAGA base may have split apart by then.

[Michael Wolff]

I think they have split apart. I think that's what we're seeing, right?

[Joanna Coles]

We're actually watching that happening in real time.

[Michael Wolff]

Exciting.

[Joanna Coles]

Very exciting. And where is J.D. vance? So the good news is we have so many Bee Beast tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support.

[Michael Wolff]

Thank you. The team without which Ryan, Rachel, Heather, Neil. I've forgotten somebody.

[Joanna Coles]

Devin.

[Michael Wolff]

Devin. How could I forget Devin?