RFK Jr., Elon Musk and Lauren Sánchez

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast: RFK Jr., Elon Musk, and Lauren Sánchez
Release Date: January 30, 2025
Hosts: Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee
Guest: Reid Hoffman, Co-founder of LinkedIn

---

1. Introduction and Overview (02:06 - 02:43)

Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee kick off the episode with their signature banter, setting the stage for a lively discussion about current political and pop culture events. They immediately dive into the main topics, teasing a deep dive into RFK Jr.'s recent activities and controversies.

2. RFK Jr.'s Controversial Stance and Family Dynamics (02:43 - 10:24)

Joanna Coles opens the conversation by critiquing RFK Jr.'s role and behavior, particularly his opposition to vaccines and his appearance before Congress.

• Joanna (04:02): "As we're recording this, he is in front of Congress."
• Samantha Bee (03:01): "Too much oral. I know, I know."

They humorously dissect RFK Jr.'s personal life, including his alleged "muddings"—a term he uses to describe his sexual activities—and his relationship with Caroline Kennedy.

• Joanna (03:12): "He referred to his sexual exploits as his muddings, which is such a fascinating word."
• Samantha (03:20): "All you have to do is reference his sex diary..."

The hosts highlight Caroline Kennedy's scathing criticism of RFK Jr., emphasizing the deep familial rifts that threaten the Kennedy legacy.

• Joanna (08:08): "RFK Jr. is a fairly angry performer."
• Samantha (39:30): "He retains an interest in that in those settlements. And he's declared that he is going to keep that."

3. Melania Trump's Portrait and Lauren Sánchez's Influence (10:24 - 16:16)

Joanna and Samantha transition to discussing Melania Trump's new official portrait and Lauren Sánchez's unexpected prominence.

• Joanna (11:55): "Isaac Mizrahi's comments... inspired by Robin Wright Penn on House of Cards."
• Samantha (12:02): "Melania's official portrait looks like she's... preparing for a House of Cards audition."

They analyze the artistic choices in the portrait, debating whether Lauren Sánchez's appearance was a calculated move to project female freedom amidst restrictive times.

• Joanna (13:22): "Her breasts were this fantastically unplanned distraction."
• Samantha (13:30): "Maybe they're beautiful. They're lovely."

4. GOP Retreat at Trump's Doral Golf Club (23:03 - 26:44)

Joined by Hugh Doherty, the Daily Beast's executive editor, and Julie Grace Brufke, senior political correspondent, Joanna and Samantha delve into the dynamics of the GOP retreat.

• Hugh (23:31): "They're here for their annual GOP retreat... a kumbaya rally around Trump vibe."
• Samantha (24:25): "Is this just ball-licking and suntanning?"

They discuss the lack of consensus on policy matters, the atmosphere of camaraderie, and the looming uncertainty around funding freezes affecting federal employees.

• Hugh (25:53): "Pete Hegseth is getting $246,000 for running this enormous department..."
• Julie Grace (29:14): "Confirmation of RFK Jr. is already incredibly bad tempered..."

5. Confirmation Hearings and Political Implications (26:44 - 42:54)

The conversation intensifies as Joanna questions how RFK Jr., with his controversial views and family issues, became a viable candidate for a cabinet position.

• Joanna (30:19): "How did we get to this point where he is a viable candidate?"
• Julie Grace (31:14): "RFK Jr. is a fairly angry performer... Democrats are really going after him."

They explore the political maneuvering within the Republican Party, potential conflicts of interest, and the impact of Caroline Kennedy's video on RFK Jr.'s confirmation prospects.

• Joanna (34:23): "How did we get here to a place where a conspiracy theorist..."
• Julie Grace (36:32): "The confirmation of RFK Jr. is torn apart his own family..."

6. Interview with Reid Hoffman: The Future of AI and Silicon Valley (48:08 - 83:30)

Reid Hoffman, renowned entrepreneur and author of "Super Agency," joins the podcast to discuss his perspectives on the intersection of technology, politics, and society.

a. Optimism Amidst Turmoil (49:47 - 52:53)

Hoffman expresses cautious optimism about technological advancements, particularly AI, emphasizing the need for collaboration between tech industries and governments.

• Reid (51:01): "We're in a cognitive industrial revolution... better nuclear regulation... clean energy."
• Joanna (51:36): "How to maintain an optimistic outlook..."

b. The Influence of Elon Musk (55:42 - 59:37)

He delves into the complex relationship with Elon Musk, acknowledging Musk's entrepreneurial achievements while critiquing his disruptive behavior and misinformation.

• Reid (56:33): "Elon has this conviction that he sees the future with absolute clarity..."
• Joanna (57:58): "His character... a dark cloud to his otherwise incredible abilities."

c. The Role of AI in Healthcare and Human Evolution (60:18 - 71:21)

Hoffman discusses how AI can revolutionize healthcare by providing accessible medical assistance through smartphones, addressing current inefficiencies in the system.

• Reid (65:01): "Medical assistance on every smartphone... better than your average GP."
• Joanna (67:40): "Does AI change the nature of being a human or are we stable creatures?"

He further explores the concept of humans evolving with technology, proposing that AI can enhance human agency and cognitive diversity.

• Reid (67:39): "We are better described as Homo techne than Homo sapiens."
• Joanna (70:24): "What else do you predict is going to change about human nature?"

d. Addressing Skepticism and Ethical Concerns (72:07 - 77:56)

Samantha Bee voices her skepticism about unchecked AI development and the rise of grifters, while Hoffman reiterates his optimistic stance, advocating for responsible technological integration.

• Samantha (72:08): "We need guardrails to counteract those people."
• Reid (75:32): "Hyperscalers are committed to building green data centers... net positive."

7. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts (77:56 - 85:06)

The episode wraps up with Joanna and Samantha reflecting on their discussions, emphasizing the importance of balancing technological advancements with ethical considerations.

• Joanna (80:47): "We're building new cities with walkable paths and green energy."
• Samantha (82:23): "Don't forget to keep sending us emails about the things we're doing."

They encourage listeners to subscribe and engage with The Daily Beast's content, promising more insightful discussions in future episodes.

---

Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Joanna Coles (04:02): "As we're recording this, he is in front of Congress."
• Samantha Bee (03:20): "All you have to do is reference his sex diary..."
• Reid Hoffman (51:01): "We're in a cognitive industrial revolution... better nuclear regulation... clean energy."
• Joanna Coles (30:19): "How did we get to this point where he is a viable candidate?"
• Reid Hoffman (65:01): "Medical assistance on every smartphone... better than your average GP."

---

Key Takeaways

• RFK Jr.'s Controversy: The episode delves deep into RFK Jr.'s contentious stance on vaccines, his problematic family dynamics, and the political implications of his potential cabinet position.

• Political Intrigue: Insights into the GOP retreat reveal internal conflicts, varying levels of support for Trump, and the challenges of passing significant legislation amidst party rifts.

• Technological Optimism vs. Skepticism: Reid Hoffman's interview presents a balanced view of technological advancements, advocating for responsible AI integration while acknowledging public skepticism and ethical concerns.

• Cultural Commentary: Discussions extend to the portrayal of political figures in media, the significance of personal branding, and the evolving nature of human interaction in the digital age.

---

Conclusion

This episode of The Daily Beast Podcast offers a comprehensive exploration of the intersection between politics, family legacy, and technological innovation. Through engaging dialogue and insightful interviews, Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of current events and their broader societal implications.

Transcript

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[Joanna Coles]

Welcome to the Daily Beast Podcast. I'm Joanna Coles. I'm the Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast.

[Samantha B.]

And I am Samantha B. I am the Chief Content Officer of RFK Junior's Vitamix. He makes the worst smoothies. We will get into it.

[Joanna Coles]

I Thought you were going to be chief content Officer of his wabbly voice. How can you be the head of Health and Human Services with that voice? It sounds like you've never been to a doctor.

[Samantha B.]

You cannot. Is the answer to your question, is.

[Joanna Coles]

It possible he's got some sort of HPV thing going on in the back of his throat?

[Samantha B.]

I believe that anything is possible.

[Joanna Coles]

Anything is possible. He's trying to stop other people getting the vaccine. He would be too young for the vaccine. But I'm very mind. Do you remember when Michael Douglas said that he had got throat cancer because he'd given too many women oral sex?

[Samantha B.]

Too much oral. I know, I know.

[Joanna Coles]

Such an astonishing admission, and I think one that RFK Jr hasn't yet thought of, but I bet he would like to.

[Samantha B.]

Joanna, all you have to do is reference his sex diary, where he lists all the women and all of the sex acts that he performed on them. Allegedly.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, allegedly. You think he's lying?

[Samantha B.]

No.

[Joanna Coles]

He's lying about his muddings.

[Samantha B.]

No, he says that the diary is not real.

[Joanna Coles]

I've seen copies of the diary. It looks pretty real.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, it looks God damn real.

[Joanna Coles]

I've been in media long enough to have seen copies of the diaries. They seem real. And he referred to his sexual exploits as his muddings, which is such a fascinating word.

[Samantha B.]

Ew. Are you kidding me?

[Joanna Coles]

No, no, I'm not. His mud money. And he refers to sex as the sort of demon that will not let him out of its grasp.

[Samantha B.]

I'm going to almost throw up so many times during this conversation today.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, as we're recording this, he is in front of Congress.

[Samantha B.]

He is. He is. Oh, my God. Then you know what? The next time I approach Jason for a romantic interlude, I'm going to. I'm going to say, like, you want to get into a mud pile? And he's going to be so confused.

[Joanna Coles]

It's going to be like a Walmart Birkin bag being interviewed. Because that's what his skin is like at this point. Sort of cheap leather.

[Samantha B.]

Like a crocodile. Embossed.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, leather. Very scary. Okay. Every week here at the Daily Beast podcast, Sam and I dish about the people and the stories that everybody's talking about. So this week, we're obviously talking about RFK Jr's long overdue verbal smackdown by his cousin Caroline Kennedy and Melania's butcher Gucci dominatrix portrait reveal.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, yes.

[Joanna Coles]

In the Download, where we dive into the biggest beast stories, we'll be talking to Daily Beast executive editor Hugh Doherty and our senior Political correspondent Julie Grace Brufke for a data dump on D.C. julie Grace is currently stationed at Trump's Doral. Is it Doral or Doral?

[Samantha B.]

There's some debate. I think we have to get the scoop from Julie Grace.

[Joanna Coles]

I was debating it just so that.

[Samantha B.]

She'S living in a van outside the resort, so we'll find out.

[Joanna Coles]

All right, so she's at Trump's. You say Doral. I say Doral Golf Club in Florida. And she'll be giving us an up close and personal look inside the GOP retreat. I gather there has been a lot of smoothing on of suntan cream around the pool, or poolside, as you guys call it.

[Samantha B.]

There is so much grease poolside.

[Joanna Coles]

But Hugh will be here to break down Caroline Kennedy's warring video that she released on Instagram.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

I've known Bobby my whole life. We grew up together. It's no surprise that he keeps birds of prey as pets, because Bobby himself is a predator. He's always been charismatic, able to attract others through the strength of his personality, his willingness to take risks and break the rules. I watch his younger brothers and cousins follow him down the path of drug addiction. His basement, his garage, his dorm room were always the center of the action where drugs were available. And he enjoyed showing off how he put baby chickens and mice in a blender to feed to his hawks. It was often a perverse scene of despair and violence. That was a long time ago, and people can change. Through his own strength and the many second chances he was given by people who felt sorry for the boy who lost his father, Bobby was able to pull himself out of illness and disease. I admire the discipline that took and the continuing commitment it requires. But siblings and cousins who Bobby encouraged down the path of substance abuse, suffered addiction, illness, and death, while Bobby has gone on to misrepresent, lie, and cheat his way through life.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought she looked. I felt she could have worked with her presentation a bit better. I felt that she looked like a very lefty academic and it wouldn't play wide enough.

[Samantha B.]

I think doing it on Instagram ensures that it will play wider. I actually think that that was really clever.

[Joanna Coles]

No, I thought it was clever to release it on Instagram. I wish that she had looked. I wish she'd have more flattering lighting because I worried that she looked like a sort of another crazy member of her family.

[Samantha B.]

Well, she has those little teeny round glasses. But I did find it very compelling. And there are very few people who do Instagram lives with the proper setup. I actually find that As a general rule that people.

[Joanna Coles]

Fair, Fair. I mean, listen, it was a brilliantly written, very good use of. Not very long. I mean, really concise. Yes. And every single line had something terrifying in it. He has birds of prey because he's a predator. That was very effective.

[Samantha B.]

It was effective. It was. And the revelations about, I don't know, just revelations about him frothing baby chicks in a blender to feed his birds of prey is just. Is this the person we want in charge of literally anything? And I maintain to this moment that if he didn't have the Kennedy name and the Kennedy money, he would be out on the streets just proselytizing.

[Joanna Coles]

Of course. Well. Or he'd be helping Cheryl Hines with her, you know, whatever it's called. Heinz. What is her bath line called?

[Samantha B.]

What?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, she has a bath and body line. Cheryl Hines does. You've seen the ads for it where he's naked in the shower. We've had this conversation.

[Samantha B.]

What are you talking about? We have never discussed.

[Joanna Coles]

Cheryl Hines has a bath and body line.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

What's it called?

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, someone is shouting the name for it. What's it called? Sasha? Heinz and Young.

[Samantha B.]

Heinz and Young. I need to take a pause. I need to take a step.

[Joanna Coles]

You've seen the ad where RFK Jr is in the shower naked. Because we know he loves to take his top off and his pants off and he's in the shower and then she sort sort of blocking him so you can't see his balls.

[Samantha B.]

I swear to Jesus Christ, my Lord and savior, I have never seen this in all.

[Joanna Coles]

I am going to order you some. I'm going to. I'm sure. Is it. It's probably Heinz and young dot com. Bit of an ad there for my fans.

[Samantha B.]

Already getting a skin itch. I'm getting hives.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Samantha B.]

As we speak.

[Joanna Coles]

It may be hypoallergenic, but I am going to order you some just for the hell of it. You can smooth it on. On next week's show if it comes that fast. I'm gonna be so creamy, I'm gonna order livery.

[Samantha B.]

Just because she played a semi normal wife on Curb youb Enthusiasm doesn't mean she is one. We don't know.

[Joanna Coles]

We don't know. We don't know. You're right.

[Samantha B.]

She's down for that rough textured skin.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, I think that's why she started her company. Clearly that's why. Duh. We've just realized it.

[Samantha B.]

She was like. It's like being in bed with a hammerhead shark.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we know what would happen with that. She'd. He just saw the head of Jesus.

[Samantha B.]

Strap it to a car.

[Joanna Coles]

Strap it to a car with the shark juices. Run a whale juices. Right. Running down the. Running down the window.

[Samantha B.]

This episode of the podcast is truly visceral.

[Joanna Coles]

All right. And our beast of the week this week is none other than Reid Hoffman, co founder of LinkedIn and one of our times most influential politically engaged entrepreneurs, the Silvio Dante, if you like, of the PayPal mafia. And Hoffman has been instrumental in shaping the success stories of tech giants like PayPal and OpenAI. And stay tuned, because when Reid speaks, it echoes through the valley. But before we get into it, let me just remind you all to subscribe to the daily [e-mail] it's juicy, sharp journalism. It's independent. So subscribed and stay saucy, spicy and informed.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, I love that.

[Joanna Coles]

I felt last week that I hadn't been sufficiently appreciative of Lauren Sanchez's breasts.

[Samantha B.]

You're quite obsessed with those glistening orbs.

[Joanna Coles]

I am. I'm obsessed by what they represent, actually. And I thought that it was extremely interesting to Isaac Mizrahi's comments a couple of weeks ago when he said that the first lady and those around her play dress up. And we have talked often about how for Trump, this is all about. He's a TV producer. He's a brilliant executive TV producer. And all this is playing out as if it were a big reality show and that the women are playing roles that we felt were inspired by Robin Wright Penn on House of Cards.

[Samantha B.]

Sure. I mean, Melania's new official portrait looks like she's. It looks like the headshot that you hand in before your House of Cards audition.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, it does. To get to get the role. Absolutely. It looks like something out of the Wall Street Journal where she's a sort of businesswoman, she's got no jewelry, it's a white shirt. Who haven't seen it. She's wearing a grey suit. It's tailored, it's very severe. It's not unlike my jacket. Can you remember who designed it? I can't remember.

[Samantha B.]

I actually can't remember. I can only remember that there is a cummerbund.

[Joanna Coles]

There was a cummerbund. You're absolutely right. Which you're very struck on. Yeah. But I feel like Lauren's breasts are making a sort of bid for female freedom as the world comes in around. Around women and we see our rights restricted, reproductive rights restricted. And I somehow felt that in amongst that, the. The sort of Overproduction of the inauguration.

[Samantha B.]

Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

Lauren's breasts were this fantastically unplanned by the organizers.

[Hugh Doherty]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Distraction. You saw Mark Zuckerberg looking incredibly cheekily, literally.

[Samantha B.]

Ogling.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, ogling. And then knowing that he'd been caught and sort of giggling like a little schoolboy. And I just thought, there's something more here. And I do think they should have their own coordinates on Google.

[Samantha B.]

Do you think that her breasts are just waking up right now and they're just like, Niplus erectus? Somebody's talking about me.

[Joanna Coles]

Boing. Maybe.

[Samantha B.]

Maybe they're beautiful. They're lovely.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, a lot of work has gone into them. They didn't recall. They just didn't happen overnight.

[Samantha B.]

I thought she looked great and very different. I mean, you said it last time we had a conversation that all the kind of. There's a lot of women in the Trump camp who are now dressing like the Daughters of Zion. So this was an interesting. Like, just a kind of like a roll of the dice in the mix. Very captivating.

[Joanna Coles]

And I felt that she managed to get. Despite the fact that it was his second inauguration, actually, Lauren Sanchez's breast cantilevered up like fruits at a green grocer were. In fact, she stole. She stole all the attention.

[Samantha B.]

I'm gonna have to correct you. Those are not the type of fruit that you just find at the greengrocer. You have to order those fruit. Those are specialty fruits.

[Joanna Coles]

In one of those Harry and David.

[Samantha B.]

Fruit boxes, each individual fruit is wrapped in bead.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, in paper, in tissue. Yeah, yeah. And I thought. I mean, everyone kept saying, oh, it's a bustier. I thought, no, it's like a milkmaid's. It's like a milkmaid's bodice. And I think they do role play. And she plays a shepherdess.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, my God. You have so many parts about this.

[Joanna Coles]

I do. I'm fascinated by her. What does this mean? I thought it was genius the way she managed to steal the attention in an unexpected way.

[Samantha B.]

Sure. Well, I mean, what is the significance of this in your. To your thinking?

[Joanna Coles]

I think she's a rebel. I think she's a secret rebel. And Melania was all, you know, like, buttoned up and like, this is. We're keeping all this female sexuality down. And Lauren was just like, look at me.

[Samantha B.]

Check out these.

[Joanna Coles]

I think she might be a rebel. A secret rebel.

[Samantha B.]

Well, I'm appreciative of that in all forms, if possible.

[Joanna Coles]

If you got lost down that cleavage, you would need Google Maps to get you out.

[Samantha B.]

I would Need. I would need Google Maps. That's a beautiful. That's some crevasse work.

[Joanna Coles]

You'd have to abseil your way out.

[Samantha B.]

To really work on that. Okay, Melania's official portrait. Melania rocking skinny jeans. Should we just.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, my God. The skinny jeans were fantastic. You predicted this.

[Samantha B.]

Of course, because in a Trump America, you are bringing back skinny jeans. I'm still seeing big pants everywhere, but look at it.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, we hated big pants.

[Samantha B.]

That silhouette is about to change. Obviously, boobs are gonna be at the forefront again.

[Joanna Coles]

Boobs?

[Samantha B.]

What am I, a child? I'm a child. But why boobies?

[Joanna Coles]

There was no. Melania doesn't give boobs. Despite the fact that she was modeling topless at one point in her career, she actually dresses the complete opposite of that. Very severe. You never see any cleavage. Those long dresses that she wears.

[Samantha B.]

She wants to be taken seriously.

[Joanna Coles]

She wants to be taken seriously.

[Samantha B.]

I can never take her seriously because, again, I repeat, I read that goddamn book.

[Joanna Coles]

You read the book that she wrote that she didn't read.

[Samantha B.]

You know, it's easier to grift when you look the part of a serious person.

[Joanna Coles]

Interesting. I thought she looked fantastic. And again, to Isaac's point about her playing dress up, she was dressed as a first lady dressing down to go on a trip.

[Samantha B.]

Sedate. Serious. Sedate. Educated. It makes it easier for people to stomach buying her ridiculous meme coin.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, that is a ridiculous thing. I mean, you just say the word meme kit. I mean, this is Grifter in chief, right? Grifter in chief. Okay, what else are we talking about? Hegseth's divorce settlement.

[Samantha B.]

What is his divorce?

[Joanna Coles]

So we've started at the Beast a new column called the Swamp, which looks at what's going on in D.C. and of course, Trump says he's going to drain the Swamp. He really doesn't need to, because it's all leaking to the Daily Beast.

[Samantha B.]

That's fantastic.

[Joanna Coles]

But one of the things I've always been fascinated by is the idea of a cabinet made up of people who, in theory, all get the same amount of money because they get paid a public salary, which is well taken care of. Pete Hegseth is getting $246,000 for running this enormous department, which you might argue actually is very much underpaid for the enormity of the job. But what's so fascinating is that the people around the table have such differential or such a difference in their wealth. So you have Scott Besant, who largely made his fortune actually betting Black Friday against the British economy. Against the pound, but, you know, hugely wealthy next to Pete Hegseth, who must have thought he'd died and gone to heaven when he got to Fox News and was on a salary of 2.3 million, but has now had to take a tenth of that to do this job. Now, we know he's got two ex wives, he's got seven children, he had credit. He's got seven children, he's got credit card debt, or he certainly did have when he was getting divorced for a second time, and he had, I think, a $480,000 mortgage on a $600,000 property. So this is not a guy who's well off. Why would he be? Served his country. But interesting to be sitting next to someone who is a centimillionaire, if not a billionaire. Scott Besant. And both having the same loudness of voice, if you will.

[Samantha B.]

Well, I mean, in the position that he's in, I mean, that is going to. He will reap the financial rewards from that, either now or in the future.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, but someone's going to have to lend him money. How does he get through just financially? How do you get through?

[Samantha B.]

I don't know. He's attained. I mean, he's achieved this legitimacy now, in people's view, not in my personal view, but, you know, a large proportion of the populace is totally fine with him taking over this enormous machine. So I think he will reap the. And I don't know what form that will take. Maybe, perhaps he should launch his own meme coin. I mean, why not? It seems like there are no guardrails, there's no rules.

[Joanna Coles]

What does it take to launch a meme coin?

[Samantha B.]

I have no idea. We should launch our own.

[Joanna Coles]

I think we should be Coles Bean Coles meme coin.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, God. Like Beast bucks.

[Joanna Coles]

Beast bucks. That's good. That is very. Or beast Cash. Yeah, I like it. That's a very good idea. We should totally launch. Well, I have no idea what we do with it or where we'd spend it, but I like the idea of trying to buy morning coffee with it or, you know, just trying.

[Samantha B.]

Just walking into.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Take my coin, please.

[Samantha B.]

My coin.

[Joanna Coles]

Take my coin. But I want to recommend the Swamp. It's written by David Gardner and Marianne Akers. It's really good gossip about dc.

[Samantha B.]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

It's sort of page six for what's happening in politics. Page six for politics.

[Samantha B.]

That's great. That's great. Nerds unite.

[Joanna Coles]

We have so much to get to, but let's just take a quick break for this pod to make some money.

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[Ryan Reynolds]

It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment required.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details.

[Freddie Wong]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money.

[Samantha B.]

Houston.

[Freddie Wong]

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[Hugh Doherty]

Foreign.

[Joanna Coles]

Welcome back. We are joined now by the Daily Beast's executive editor, Hugh Doherty and senior political correspondent Julie Grace Brufke to get the download on the GOP retreat at Trump's golf club in Florida. Julie Grace, you are at. How do we pronounce it?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Trump?

[Hugh Doherty]

Terrell. So his golfers were right outside. Well, right in the Miami area.

[Samantha B.]

Doral. Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

Doral. Okay. So what are you doing there? And what are the Republicans doing there?

[Hugh Doherty]

So they are here for their annual GOP retreat where they're kind of hashing out their policy plans. Trump was here a couple days ago to give a speech. J.D. vance yesterday. And just kind of a push, kind of rally around policy and kind of a chance for members to hang out with each other and kind of bond some of the new freshmen. And they're all kind of hanging by the pool, playing golf, getting to know each other. So. So that's kind of been the vibe down here thus far. There's a couple people, Marjorie Taylor Greene was just tweeting, not a whole lot got, not a lot of consensus on the policy. But in Chip Roy, few members, I think there's 14 that aren't here. So a couple people that were kind of railing against coming. But yeah, overall kind of been a kumbaya rally around Trump vibe.

[Samantha B.]

Wow. Do you think that when he, when everybody is congregated like that, does he, like, give them a heads up about the funding freeze that he would later go on to announce, or are they just kind of blindsided by all of this stuff, by this big fire hose as well?

[Hugh Doherty]

So, I mean, there were certain things of his agenda that he was laying out, but it was more of a unifying his speech, more of like a let's all unify. But yeah, there seemed to be a lot of confusion about the funding freeze situation, and still kind of seems to be some confusion on that front. I talked to some members yesterday that they were like, we need to get some clarification on things before we decide if it's a good or a bad thing. So I think they're looking to get some answers on that today. But it doesn't seem like they got a whole lot of heads up on that front.

[Samantha B.]

And he's golfing. How are they creating Like, I mean, in terms of security, are they creating the perimeter must be just massive.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, security, like, so it's like metal.

[Hugh Doherty]

Detectors and they checked everyone's cars. They came in and then it kind of relaxed a day later. But I mean, some of the, some of the members were saying the security situation, the way it's set up and just kind of the drive through made it, made it easier than some of the past resorts that they've used in the past for when he's come to come speak to them.

[Samantha B.]

Is this a fair characterization to say that it's just 247 ball licking and people are just sitting by the pool and everybody's just creaming each other's backs with suntan lotion? I don't know, what does it feel like?

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, it's not, some of these guys were like, oh, it's a lot of boring policy breakout, like breakout sessions where they talk about tax policy. But I think there's a bunch of members kind of hanging by the pool now. They're starting to fly out. So it's, I mean, right now I feel like they all are very excited to have the majority, very excited to have Trump here. So that's, it's been a less, a little less testy than past retreats, but it's, it's, yeah. So they're, they're back in Washington next week and. Yeah, just kind of hashing things out right now.

[Joanna Coles]

And what about the severance notices that went out to 2 million federal employees? Did the group that you're with have notice of that?

[Hugh Doherty]

So I don't think they got a huge heads up on that. I know some moderates have some concerns on that front. I know there's some concerns on the firings of ignorance that, that's kind of been something that there have been some worries on that front. But so far it's kind of, I mean, their main focus down here has largely been the reconciliation bill. So that's kind of what they've all been in these meetings talking about.

[Joanna Coles]

This is the beautiful big bill where everything is going to be wrapped up in one neat bow.

[Unknown Speaker 2]

That it is.

[Hugh Doherty]

Although I've talked to some people that are already kind of tamping down some expectations given the margins there. So they're not sure what ultimately get in there. They haven't totally figured out what they're going to do with the debt ceiling. There's, there, there's still a lot they've got to iron out that they were hoping to figure out a lot of down here. But I Think it's probably going to be taken back to Washington where they're still probably going to have some issues figuring that out.

[Samantha B.]

So this is really just like a big. It's a bonding exercise. No, I mean, that's all that's what it's for is that that's the purpose of it.

[Hugh Doherty]

A large part of it. I mean, kind of like company retreats. Corporate America has sometimes I feel like not totally dissimilar.

[Samantha B.]

Right. Trust falls. He made a joke to Speaker Mike Johnson. Johnson about running for a third term. What is actually the feeling amongst Republicans when he says stuff like this? Is there any talk behind closed doors that you have access to or.

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, most of them kind of just brush it off as Trump joking around and Trump being Trump. I know Annie Ogle is a Freedom Caucus member. He introduced a resolution about a week or two ago that would amend the Constitution to allow for that. And then I think it had a carve out for Obama be being exempt from that carve out. But I mean, I think it's messaging bills mostly for. That was kind of a messaging bill to be able to fundraise off of more than anything else. So I don't think anyone's totally taking that seriously down here. But Mike Johnson kind of brushed it off last night when chatting with reporters.

[Samantha B.]

God, there is so much pasty white skin there. There is not enough SPF in this world to protect these people.

[Joanna Coles]

A lot of people looking like Mark Zuckerberg. Do you remember when he put that white sort of geisha mask on? That's right. That was not a good look for Mark. Obviously he wouldn't do it now. Now he'd just welcome the suntan because he's just.

[Samantha B.]

Yeah, he has to tan. He has to lay on the surfboard and tan his perineum because that's what Macho mentioned.

[Joanna Coles]

That is so. You're giving me so many visuals today.

[Samantha B.]

It's just.

[Joanna Coles]

It's just I'm breathless. So as we speak. Julie Grace. And then we'll. We'll drag Hugh into this conversation. RFK Jr. Is performing his confirmation duties. How. What was the conversation like at Dural. Dural about him and the likelihood of him getting passed.

[Hugh Doherty]

I think some say. I mean, a lot of most of the Republicans are kind of just rallying around Trump's picks on this. I think Tulsi is kind of probably the one where they're voicing more concerns. But that Caroline Kennedy letter yesterday was a doozy. And I mean, I think any Dem support that he might have gotten Biden's probably likely dead. Got to check in with some sources on that front since I've been hanging with Republicans down here. But I mean, that was pretty scathing. So I, there's definitely some concerns from Republicans that were on the Senate side. I mean, Bill, Cassie with the, with the vaccinations and so I mean, he could have a tough climb. I think Tulsi's still the one that's probably the least likely to get confirmed, but I think he's got enough. He's got kind of an uphill battle there.

[Samantha B.]

For God's sake, Mitch McConnell had polio. How can this be happening?

[Joanna Coles]

Hugh? How can this be happening?

[J]

Julie Grace was talking about reconciliation and I'll tell you where there is no reconciliation and that is in the Senate. The confirmation of RFK Jr is already incredibly bad tempered, incredibly testy and it's torn apart his own family in a way that we have never seen for this political dynasty. And where that leaves the Republicans on voting for it, we won't know until next week because, because there's multiple hearings and then they all go away and they have more meetings to decide behind closed doors what they're doing. But what we've already seen is that RFK Jr. Is a fairly angry performer. And the last time I was here we were talking about Pete Hegseth and he seems to have taken some practice notes from Pete Hegseth. He's facing down the Democrats, but the Democrats this time are really going after him. And we're in for, I think, I think probably 48 hours of incredible drama in the Senate with finger pointing, with anger and with claim and counterclaim about the safety of vaccines.

[Joanna Coles]

So can we just talk about how we got here to a place where a conspiracy theorist about vaccines who gets paid by the anti vaccine lobby, who is part of a lawsuit against Merck, that he's not going to give up his potential financial gain even if he is chosen as the cabinet secretary for Health and Human Services. How did we get to this point where he is a viable candidate?

[J]

Wow, how many hours do you have? Joanna I think maybe we should start by putting Donald Trump on the couch. Donald Trump is peak boomer. He's 78 and he grew up with the Kennedys as the most glamorous the American royal family. And Trump has long aspired to be a Kennedy in some ways. And here is a Kennedy who has come to him and offered himself as part of the, part of the legend of Camelot.

[Joanna Coles]

The runt of the Kennedy litters.

[Samantha B.]

The runt of the Kennedy litters, certainly maybe the runt.

[J]

He may have put the litters in the blender. We have learned a whole lot about RFK Jr. From his family. But what really propelled him wasn't just the glamour of his, his tragic father and his tragic uncle. It was the money of Google. And here's a whole other aspect of this story that RFK Jr. Ran for the White House in a very improbable way, but he had behind him money from Nicole Shanahan. She is a former wife of one of the tech kings, Sergey Brin. She's got at least a billion dollars. It's actually unclear how rich she is. We know, we think, we know that there's at least $1 billion. She's prepared to spend it on her causes. And she aligned with RFK Jr because.

[Joanna Coles]

He chose her as his vice presidential pick. Right.

[J]

He went out and found her, he found a source of money and he has been writing that ever since. And she's still in the picture. She's making her own dramatic intervention on, of course, social media to say that if anybody votes against RFK Jr she will fund challenges to the them. And that's no idle threat. She's got a lot of money to burn.

[Joanna Coles]

And I'm particularly fascinated by her because in fact, she met Sergey Brin, the co founder of Google, when she was on her bachelorette party getting married to someone else. 27 days after they got married, the marriage ended. She then married Sergey Brin, had a brief affair with Elon Musk, which caused the divorce, and then got, I think $800 million in the divorce settlement.

[J]

Right. It's incredibly, incredibly wealthy divorcee. And of course, what we don't know since is how she's invested that money. So given what the markets are like, it's probably worth a lot more.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and I think it was in Google stock or Alphabet stock.

[J]

Well, it's whatever. It's a good bet that she's got a lot more money. And she is an outspoken backer of RFK Jr. And she is one of the group of people that have coalesced around RFK Jr. He's spoken about these crunchy health moms who have decided that bad food and vaccine fears overlap. And many medical experts are really gravely concerned here because there are valid criticisms about what we're eating, but they're being mixed up with absolutely untrue criticisms about vaccine safety.

[Samantha B.]

And to be clear, he did vaccinate his own children.

[J]

And that was one of the very first questions the Democrats were keen to Ask him. But he got in there first and said in a statement, in an attempt to kind of take the heat out of it, the Democrats are really going to go after him for the next possibly four years if he is confirmed as a hypocrite. They're asking him about abortion. And that's a real problem for Republicans.

[Samantha B.]

Right. Just before we started talking about this, I looked at updates on my phone and what the headline was. He seems to have no understanding of Medicare and Medicaid, which is critical. That is the job. So that's an interesting headline.

[J]

He has some understanding of one crucial thing for Trump, how to perform in TV. And for people who remember the Kennedys from the 60s as Trump does, there's something weird and creepy about looking at what RFK himself might have looked like if he had made it to 70. You have to remember RFK Jr is way older than his father was when he died. So we're getting a kind of time traveling glimpse with the assistance of some testosterone implants as well. That is giving us a weird look at an alternate universe of Camelot.

[Joanna Coles]

It's extraordinary analysis, amazing, actually. And you're right in the way that Trump presents his family. I mean, I am fascinated by those big Trump family photos because he's got what, three wives, he's had all sorts of children. Well, not all sorts. He's got what, four.

[J]

He has five children.

[Joanna Coles]

Five children, of course, Baron. Right, Baron and Tiffany and then the three with Ivana. You can see the impact on him from those extraordinary Camelot images.

[J]

And he's stolen the imagery. He's been very open about that, about using the idea of the big family, the clan. What the other alternate universe that we've been presented with, though, is that this Kennedy family have been absolutely fractured by this. They're torn apart. Bobby Kennedy Jr. Or Bobby Kennedy III, is behind his father, Kick Kennedy, again named after previous Kennedy, is also behind her father, but on the other side, his cousin, Caroline Kennedy, the only surviving child of President John F. Kennedy, is vehemently opposed to him and has exposed incredible secrets that this most chronicled family in America still had managed to keep in the dark. And to see that happening, it might be a warning to Trump about what happens in extended political families, but it's given everybody in America an incredible insight into the troubles of the Kennedy dynasty. And whether that is going to derail his confirmation, we are still waiting to find out. The Republicans, who are shaky, aren't going to say, but what it is going to do is hang a big shadow over the next four years of his life.

[Samantha B.]

I don't even know what to say about this. I'm so distressed about these hearings. I am so distressed that anybody could take this person seriously. I just don't even know what to say.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and as you said earlier, I mean, if his name weren't Kennedy, he wouldn't be there at all. And the idea that you can sort of reject the science that you want to reject, it's just crazy. I want there to be a vaccine against RFK Jr.

[Samantha B.]

It seems like for me, as you're, he would take it in your analysis, I think it's so interesting because it, it feels almost like he, he does two different things for Trump, which is like he confers that Kennedy prestige and that mystique. But also we know that he's going to burn down these agencies or like he's going to be so disruptive, which is also what he wants. Just that, an agent of chaos.

[Joanna Coles]

Agent of chaos. And I thought there was a great line in Caroline Kennedy's video where she talks about him luring other younger members of his family into the basement with him. His perverse, you know, making of food for his birds of prey, where he would put chickens and mice live in a blender and then blend them. And she said it was this place of despair and violence and he brings that with him. She also said that he's very charismatic, which I've heard from people who've spent time with him, that he's exceptionally charismatic and people are just fascinated by him. And he has these big blue eyes. And you're right, it's the eerie sense of seeing what his father might have looked like had he lived to be president or a politician.

[J]

And one thing that he's done very effectively, and this maybe speaks to that analysis that his cousin offered about being charismatic, is he immediately when he started these hearings, said that he is a recovering addict. And that's an attempt obviously to take away some of the really bad aspects of his life that Caroline Kennedy spoke to. She said that he had led his brothers and cousins into despair and addiction. And we all know the scale of tragedy that has hit the Kennedy family, the scale of death from drugs, that he lost a brother, he lost another brother who was an alcoholic in recovery when he skied into a tree. His other cousin was convicted and then exonerated of the murder, murder of a 15 year old girl. Caroline Kennedy put all those tragedies at his feet, but he performed for those who support him, this charismatic turnaround of saying, I am in recovery And I go to meetings every day.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, how's he going to have time to go to meetings every day? I mean, what was it that Elizabeth Warren said about Hegseth's confirmation hearing? That it was the first time she'd heard this. That sense of, what is it when you have a, you know, you just have a complete change of heart and your life.

[J]

Confirmation conversion.

[Joanna Coles]

That's right. Confirmation conversion. Thank you.

[J]

And I think we're definitely seeing one of those on vaccines from RFK junior. He's trying to say, I'm not anti vax. I was just asking questions and.

[Joanna Coles]

But he was by anti vaccine lobbies, right?

[J]

He was. And he retains an interest in that in those settlements. And he's declared that he is going to keep that. Which. Which, of course, Democrats and the medical establishment say is a massive conflict.

[Joanna Coles]

And here's the crazy thing. There are so many people that could run that agency that would have been an easy pick for Trump. This would not have been difficult. Why are we stumbling over someone like this?

[J]

This is a big question for the Trump movement. One of the people asking the questions is called Bill Cassidy, and he's a doctor, he's a Republican senator. He is a hardcore conservative, and he is also in favor of violence, vaccines. And there are people who say he was eminently qualified to take this job, but he had voted to impeach Trump in 2021. And often with Trump, the personal is the political. We see the effects of policy, but really, it's all about personality. Bobby Kennedy went on stage and spoke in favor of Trump and endorsed him. And that for Trump is really what matters. And Kennedy himself said that he been on his knees praying for the last 20 years for a job that would make his agenda possible. So it looks like Trump answered his prayers, and now we've got to see if we all have to pray for our own medical safety.

[Samantha B.]

God, there's so much danger in big blue eyes. People are much too trusting of big blue eyes. And you both have them. And that's why I trust you more than.

[Joanna Coles]

I don't have blue eyes. My eyes green.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, just saying. I'm just.

[J]

I do the blue eyes.

[Joanna Coles]

Blue eyes. Yeah, it's. It's all. It's a lot.

[J]

I'm not a candidate, so you can relax.

[Samantha B.]

Okay, thank you.

[J]

And I've never put small animals in a blender.

[Joanna Coles]

It's such a sign that someone torturing animals like that for his bird of prey. And as Caroline Kennedy said, he is himself a predator.

[J]

Yeah, well, we're going to see in the next few days, if he's predator or pray for the Democrats.

[Samantha B.]

My goodness.

[Joanna Coles]

And why is it taking so long for this to get confirmed? Because you said we won't know until next week.

[J]

He has to have two hearings in front of different committees. Those committees should reach a consensus. They then go and have another meeting to vote on it. And also there's just a tidal wave of people that they've got to confirm. So there's only 100 senators and there's a lot of nominees. So today, tomorrow, the next day, if you're a senator, your diary just says confirmation, confirmation, confirmation. And the cast of characters that's on your diary includes not just RFK Jr. But Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel. Kash Patel. And then a host of more minor figures that we'll only begin to hear about in the next weeks and months. So this show is going to run and run.

[Joanna Coles]

Judy Grace, you're still at the Dorel Hotel. Thank you for staying with us. I have one question, question for you. Do you have any sense that the food at the Trump Hotel, where you're staying, or, or where the Republicans are staying, do you think there's been any healthy additions to the menu because of RFK's influence?

[Hugh Doherty]

I don't think so. I mean, like, the pool menu has been largely like salads, fish tacos, and then it's like a BLT steakhouse. So. And then there's. There's a grill. It's kind of like country club golf food.

[Joanna Coles]

Country club.

[Samantha B.]

Golf club country.

[J]

And blended small chicken.

[Joanna Coles]

And blended chicken. I'll never, ever have a smoothie again.

[Samantha B.]

A mouse milk.

[J]

I'm glad your cleanse is over, Joanna.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, Sam had a sausage cleanse. Julie Grace, thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. Yeah. We'll talk to you again soon. I thought that was such an interesting observation, that people are fascinated by him because he represents what his father might have looked like had he lived.

[Samantha B.]

I know. It is so interesting. People are so often tricked by people's appearances.

[Joanna Coles]

They really are.

[Samantha B.]

They see those big blue eyes and they just think it's the guy from Jesus of Nazareth called Jesus.

[Joanna Coles]

It's a little bit like people looking for Diana in Harry and William.

[Samantha B.]

Oh, very much so. Very much so. Oh, I have to tell you before we, before we move on to something, I have to tell you my Caroline Kennedy story, which, gosh, I once, I went to a luncheon one time years and years ago, probably almost 20 years ago, and she was at the table and she was Lovely. And we were interacting. It was very nice talking to her. But the lady beside me had been one of the original actresses from the Honeymooners. And of course, I was very intimidated by this crowd. It was like a really, like, it was like a very fancy lunch. And I was like, oh, my God, Caroline Kennedy's right there. But the lady from the Honeymooners kept stage whispering to me. She was like, she was like, look how small her boobies are. Like, she couldn't stop talking about Caroline. Caroline. She was like, she could have at least worn falsies. I would have worn falsies. She was obsessed with falsies and felt that she should have worn a padded bra to the lunch.

[Joanna Coles]

Which brings us right back to where we started with Lauren Sanchez.

[Samantha B.]

Well, the whole podcast comes full circle, full orb.

[Joanna Coles]

It's very clear that Caroline Kennedy hates talking about her family. And I thought it was very brave of her to put that video out. And if there was one time to talk about your family, this is it.

[Samantha B.]

This is it. She did choose her moment. And I hope that people. I hope that people listen to her.

[Joanna Coles]

Ironically, maybe his position, which is pro abortion up to the day of the fetus's viability, that may be the thing that gets Republicans to vote against him.

[Samantha B.]

Yeah, maybe that will be the thing that tanks him. And hopefully it will, because his ideas are dangerous and he's a disgusting human being. I'm sorry, I can't not end it on a downer.

[Joanna Coles]

I think he's gonna try and market his pet smoothie.

[Samantha B.]

Well, I'm gonna try to market denim jeans for the gym, as we have discussed.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, yes, yes, yes, yes. Denim jeans for the gym.

[Samantha B.]

Denim jeans.

[Joanna Coles]

Denim jeans and topless, of course. Always, always. We're going to take another quick break and rack in some coins before we talk to our beast of the week, Reid Hoffman.

[Unknown Speaker 4]

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[Unknown Speaker 1]

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[Ryan Reynolds]

Hey there, Ryan Reynolds here. It's a new year and you know what that means. No, not the diet resolutions. A way for us all to try and do a little bit better than we did last year. And my resolution, unlike big wireless, is to not be a raging and raise the price of wireless on you every chance I get. Give it a [e-mail] Switch $45 upfront payment required.

[Unknown Speaker 1]

Equivalent to $15 per month. New customers on first 3 month plan only. Taxes and fees, extra Speed slower above 40 gigabytes on unlimited. See mintmobile.com for details.

[Freddie Wong]

Hi, this is Freddie Wong from Dungeons and Daddies and this episode is sponsored by Rocket Money Blast Houston. We have a savings. That's right. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that empowers you to save more, spend less, and take control of your financial life. Basically, you can see all of your checking, savings, credit cards and investments in one convenient place. You can understand your spending trends and most importantly, you can categorize those expenses and set up a custom budget by identifying top spending categories. Listen, you want to track bank statements, it's very difficult. Use Rocket Money to help keep track of all your finances. Rocket Money is over 5 million happy members and it saved its users over 1 $1 billion across all of the app's premium features. Let Rocket Money help you reach your financial goals faster. Get Rocket money [e-mail] allinone that's rocketmoney.com allinone.

[Joanna Coles]

We'Re back and we're thrilled to be joined by this week's Beast of the Week. Re Reid Hoffman. Reid is a pioneer in Silicon Valley. He's an entrepreneur, an investor, co founder of LinkedIn, and he has a new book out Super Agency. What could possibly go right with our AI future? We recorded this interview with Reid before the news about Deep Seek broke, but we had a very candid conversation about his latest ventures, including the exclusive Silicon Valley utopia he's helping to build outside San Francisco and his scathing personal take on Elon Musk's character. Reid is so smart, he sometimes sounds like a wizard delivering prophecies from inside a volcano. It's not often you find someone who's as kind as he is rich. So we're lucky to have him not just on the podcast, but in the world. Gosh, I'm sounding sincere this morning. It must be all that. Reid, we're very excited to talk about your new book, Super Agency. What could possibly go right with our AI future? And we are going to come to your book, but it seems insane not to come to you first with your perspective of what's going on. We're recording this on the Friday after the inauguration. We've had the announcement of Stargate. We've got the new melding of the tech Bros And Trump. You are in the heart of Silicon Valley. You're an extraordinary tech entrepreneur and we would love your take on what the hell is going on.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, you know, we definitely live in crazy times and, you know, we knew that anyway. You know, my tendency is to actually be a little bit more optimistic and not because there aren't serious concerns and serious worries. We've got the January 6th pardons, we got a whole bunch of other stuff, stuff. But it's actually been my point of view that we actually are remaking. We're in a cognitive industrial revolution and that kind of technology is reshaping industries, society, et cetera. And we need to actually have a good coordination between the tech industry and frankly, the government, any government, I think it's anywhere in the world and so forth. And so I don't, I think all of the kind of the pessimistic commentary misses some of the silver linings because I think that kind of like, look, technology is going to be a really important part of the future. Like the kinds of things that I hope for are better nuclear regulation, because that's actually where we get clean energy. And kind of like the unfortunate side effect of the anti nuclear movement is coal plants and other kinds of things. So generally speaking, I may be not as kind of sounding the alarm as much as you might expect me to, given how much I obviously put it all on the field to try to get Kamala Harris elected it.

[Samantha B.]

Do you think that that's possible though? You know, just kind of like given the Trump worldview and the people that he surrounds himself with. I mean, you are a person who thinks deeply about the subject of management. I mean, how, how to maintain an optimistic outlook when they're really like calling on federal employees to rat each other out for equitable hiring. I mean, this, this is mismanagement on day five. These are terrible ideas. How to bring out the silver lining. I mean, tell me, help me find it.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

There's a long list, a long parade of horribles. And the question around how federal employees are being treated, the notion of the fact that I think that we don't want to roll back the civil rights movement as an instance, you can say maybe DEI had some excesses here and there, but civil rights is extremely important. So there's just a long list of things that, frankly, it's depressing when you think of it. And so I think that's challenging. But this. Maybe I'm an incurable optimist from being an entrepreneur. And so I tend to go, all right, well, what are the things we can do, no matter how dark and kind of broken things are to try to build things to be better? And so, you know, and I kind of think that my responsibility, you know, here, what is it, four days into the administration is to continue to try to do things that, you know, kind of like really help American society. And so, you know, for me, that's, you know, now doing more business, investing AI all the rest of this stuff. I'm regrouping to see if whatever. If there's ends up being picking a fight with the administration. I'm pretty sure we'll get there at some point, but. But I'm trying not to. Four days in.

[Joanna Coles]

You said at the beginning that you put it all out there on the field to get Kamala Harris elected. Are you concerned about retribution?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, again, the incurable optimist in me is hopeful that everyone will get built into constructing the future. When I've called various people who I know who are going in administration to say, no, no, no, that's not how we're going to roll. Now, obviously there's various people who have promised retribution, you know, Cash Patel, you know, other kinds of folks. You know, there's this kind of. This whole range of things. And, you know, and, you know, I think what was the. One of the headlines today was, you know, the pardoned Proud Boys people are, you know, kind of promising retribution. So, you know, I think.

[Joanna Coles]

And they want to get back. They want to get into government.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

They're saying they want jobs in the administration now.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, and obviously the, you know, taking people who physically stormed the Capitol building with the intent of killing Mike Pence and assaulting police officers and putting him in the administration is unfortunately a classic thing from 1930s fascism. So I'm hopeful that it won't happen. But again, in all of these things, I'm kind of waiting to see, you know, what plays out?

[Samantha B.]

I'm sensing that you're like, well, I'm just going to seed good ideas. That's my. In people's years, four days in.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

That's the. That's the. That. That's what I'm trying to do. I mean.

[Joanna Coles]

Right.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

At least give it a couple weeks.

[Samantha B.]

Right, right, right. I noticed that you were not up on the dais, and I just want to say, like, isn't the point of being a billionaire that you don't have to lick someone else's boots? So really, why were so many of them up there? I felt debasing themselves, actually.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, again, you know, I'm going to kind of go to the little bit of the silver lining, which is, you know, they do operate within a country. We want the industry, the tech industry, all industries, to be responsive to the local government. If you're asked to show up, you know, I think you do. I was fortunately not asked, so didn't have to, you know, kind of. Kind of have this struggle of a question of how do I serve my country this way and is this the. The kind of thing that I do? But if you're asked, I think generally speaking, you try to help. Help the country and, you know, this is the legitimately elected government for all of the worries that we have with what's going to be happening with rule of law and other things.

[Samantha B.]

Right. It's impossible, actually, to leave Elon Musk out of this conversation. His presence is everywhere. His influence seems to be without guardrails. I mean, he recently defamed you. How do you wrestle with the amount of power and control that he has and how he is, how he is choosing to wield that influence?

[Joanna Coles]

And also, you've known him for a long time because you are all part of the PayPal mafia.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yes. A name that I adore. It's the criminal conspiracy.

[Joanna Coles]

It spawned an incredible set of entrepreneurs.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yes. I tend to use PayPal network. It's less sexy, but it has less of a criminal undertone. I mean, PayPal is a great public company. And all the rest, Elon, is this weird kind of dual vision. On one hand, an amazing entrepreneur revitalizing multiple industries. You know, kind of space, satellites, cars. And part of that is because he has a ability to convince himself that he has the absolute understanding of the truth, contrary to any data. And so I've seen it multiple times. I mean, for example, if you go back, you know, politically, you know, he was tweeting things around, you know, Paul Pelosi was assaulted by an ex gay prostitute who was angry with being paid. And he's like, where did you get this from? Like, what gives you any sense of belief that this is actually, in fact, accurate? And it actually kind of goes on, and unfortunately a lot of it's on Twitter and unfortunately some of it's directed to me. And it's, you know, kind of deeply responsible because, you know, there's a lot of crazy, violent people out there. And when you. You make aspersions that are basically slanderous, completely out of. Have zero factual basis, et cetera, it's kind of a call to those kind of crazy, violent people. And so all of that stuff I kind of deeply regret. I wish he was more focused on the things that he has done so amazingly and not on the things that I think are. Are causing a lot of pain and harm.

[Joanna Coles]

And how do you square that, Reid? Because I like you, I'm more of an Elon optimist in terms of his extraordinary entrepreneurial abilities. But the X of it all really seems to be a very dark cloud to his otherwise incredible abilities. I mean, you've known him a long time. What has changed?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Part of what I was saying early is that he has this conviction that he sees the future with absolute clarity and he kind of believes he grasps the truth. That's part of the reason why he thought he could start SpaceX and make it work. That's part of the reason why he thought he could put it all on the line and make Tesla work. But then when it crosses over into other things. So, for example, he's got. He's unhappy about the OpenAI stuff because he made an initial really good choice, which is founding it. And then he was like, this isn't going to work unless it's a company that I completely control, so I'm leaving. And then it worked out and he's unhappy about it. And so then he throws various kind of unbased, kind of completely slanderous assertions at Sam Altman. He throws them at me. It's unfortunately the flip side of the coin. It's kind of like the, you know, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde kind of thing. And so I obviously wish deeply he wouldn't. I think it's immoral and irresponsible.

[Samantha B.]

I feel like in the world where you make a really binary pros and cons list, the cons are very far outweighing the pros. Right now. It's a supernova burnout leadership style. I don't think it works. And I think his influence is too Great. And the horse is out of the barn. This need for attention is overriding everything, and I really welcome him to try to colonize Mars himself anytime. Hop on that rocket and go occupy Mars.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

He wears the T shirt.

[Samantha B.]

Exactly. Exactly. Okay, we want to talk about your book. And I want to say. I have to say up front, and I'm sure that this is not a huge surprise to you. I'm kind of an AI doomer. Not because I don't think that there's, like, zero upside, but just because I think there are enough bad actors in the space that whatever benefits it confers could be easily warped to serve the gods of the God of money. Can you just tell me that I'm wrong? Like, please, I'm looking for. It's not your job to reassure me. But we're here, so why not try?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, I'm always delighted to try.

[Samantha B.]

Thank you.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Look, I mean, I do think that one of the things to never, you know, like, it's part of human society, that there's differences in power, there's differences in wealth. I don't know what human society looks like without that. I mean, to some degree, all three of us are folks who, in different paths have led really extraordinary careers. And that is kind of differentially rewarding, and that happens. And so the fact that. That there will be some differential benefits in any technology, including AI, to entities that have the power to construct them, the wealth to construct them, et cetera, will happen. And I don't mean to. I start with a kind of brass tax to just make sure that it's not Pollyannish. But here is the thing where I think you get to a. Perhaps a reassuring thing. Think about the smartphones. Think about, you know, iPhones and Androids, you and I and the Uber driver and Tim Cook all have the same phone. Because when a technology gets developed for the use of hundreds of billions of people and. Oh, sorry, hundreds of millions and billions of people, then it's the natural play for these things is to be in, you know, kind of spread across the entire basis. And if you look at what's happening with the build of AI technology, like with ChatGPT, we're already at hundreds of millions. And so the ChatGPT I use is the same ChatGPT anyone else can use. And so that then gives you a broader range of inclusion that then, you know, kind of. And the target for these companies and these creators is to be most successful at the hundreds of millions and billions, which means they have to be responsible and responsive to those people. So I don't know if you find that reassuring, but at least it's a. Like using the smartphones as a parallel kind of shows you that there's a much more kind of equal access across the entire thing.

[Samantha B.]

How do you account for bad actors then? How do you solve for that? Because I look, look at, I'm just going to use. Americans in general are not super sophisticated when it comes to like media criticism. And people are very vulnerable to misinformation and disinformation. We're not used to it. We don't live like our proximity to Russia. We're not close. Like, we're not as familiar with it as a lot of European countries who kind of, who solve for that and educate people about disinformation. It's such a vulnerability for us as a general population to just get enraptured by things and already in small ways, you know, images are tricking people. We're. I just feel like we're very easy targets here. And so how can we ensure that it's enhancing human potential instead of making us totally dependent on it and, and kind of sitting ducks?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, by the way, we always do get dependent upon the new technologies that we integrate in our lives. We're dependent on our phones, we're dependent on our cars, we're dependent on electricity. Dependence is actually not the right criteria. The right criteria is kind of elevating the human condition. And I do take very seriously the. And this is part of the reason I focused on agency with super agency, because part of human agency is am I disempowered through like a kind of a sea of misinformation or jobs or privacy or other things. But to say that, hey, we can actually get to superpowers within human agency. And part of that is you think about like, okay, well, if we have really good AI assistants, because I think we're all going to have them in a small number of years, that can help us process the information we see. Because it's not just crazy information on the Internet as, you know, there's crazy information on cable news and on talk radio and all these other things. And so it's like, how do you help parse that? Well, if you have an agent that's kind of going well, by the way, when this person is claiming that vaccines cause autism, they're actually, in fact, they're counter the entire medical field of studied practice on this. And so make up your own mind. Anyway, so I think that kind of empowerment is when you think of where the, the problem is. Is where the solution is. I think that's the kind of thing to always be thinking about with technology.

[Joanna Coles]

That is such a Reid Hoffmanism, where the problem is, there, the solution is. So can we get down to sort of very basics here, Reid, because I know that you live up in the clouds and you're referred to as the philosopher king of Silicon Valley. What does AI mean for me in five years time? What does it mean for my health care? And I have another question which I'm really curious about, which is, in all of this, does AI change the nature of being a human or are we essentially sort of stable as creatures? I mean, I was trying to think back. I was having this discussion earlier this week with a friend about are we the same as we were 2,000 years ago? We may be more sophisticated, but essentially are we the same animal?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

So those are two different questions. I'll answer them in order. So the first is very straightforward, which is one of the things that kind of, I hope with a, for example, administration that's kind of focusing on deregulation, is that we will move very quickly to a medical assistance on every smartphone that's available 24,7. That's better than your average GP. And that doesn't mean GPS will go out of work. There's all kinds of things for GPS to do, including having your medical assistant report kind of say, hey, off the conversation I just had with you, Joanna, do you mind if I say the following things to your GP so that the GP can help kind of work with you on them, et cetera. And obviously there's cases where people are uninsured, don't have access to a GP. Most people don't have access to a GP. A doctor at 11pm on any evening, unless they go to an emergency room. And I think that is line of sight. I already can see it's only kind of a regulatory, legal liability issue. That is the thing that stands in the way of that happening.

[Joanna Coles]

And that feels very exciting.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yes. Huge in terms of. And this, Sam, goes back to your earlier thing, which is like, by the way, that'll be great for powerful people and it'll be great for working class people and it'll be great for unemployed people. It's good across the board. Now, the second one is more subtle and more difficult. And this is. You set it up with philosopher of Silicon Valley. One of the things that I've been thinking about in the last eight years or so has been we're actually better described as Homo techne than Homo sapiens.

[Joanna Coles]

Interesting.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

And that May sound like big words, but what it means is as opposed to we sit around like Rodin sculpture thinking, what we do is we change our nature through technology. We already are a little bit cyborgs with our smartphones, with our computers and that changes the nature of how we parse the world, how we understand each other, how we communicate with each other. Cognition changes because starting with the invention of the printing press, memory was no longer. It used to be that really oh so and so is brilliant is because they had a great memory. Now you don't really need a great memory, you just need to be able to find it. It's like, how do you do the agent query? How do you do the search query theory? And so we evolve through our technology. So I think almost for sure AI technology will help us evolve. And part of. Sorry, going to be an incurable optimist the entire time during the podcast. Part of the opportunity for this is you say, well, say we have agents like Inflections PI, the company that I co founded with Mustafa Suleiman, it's PI. It's personal intelligence. It's trained with EQ as importantly as with iq. So it's kind, it's compassionate in its interactions. And if you have those kinds of things there, we learn as human beings in part by how we're acculturated with the people around us. And that's an area where, for example, you say, hey, we have a billion agents, everyone has an agent and the agent is trying to model kindness and compassion. That's gotta be good.

[Joanna Coles]

I do notice that if I thank my ChatGPT for doing something for me or if I say, please, can you? It responds to me in kind and it feels much more human. I I love your optimism about all this, Samantha. She's a doomer. I'm a boomer on the whole thing.

[Samantha B.]

I'm just naturally distrustful. And that has served me very well and continues to serve me me very well because I'm very rarely disappointed.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and I would just say as a European, that Americans have a fantasy about the level of education that's going on in Europe. I grew up in the uk, as you know, and there was plenty of disinformation in the newspapers there. And when Rupert Murdoch arrived, there was even more. So I don't think America has a stranglehold on that. I love the idea that we are evolving though, as humans and that our memory is changing because we've got other sources of storage for information. What else do you predict is going to change about human nature? And the way our brains work.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, another hope that I'd have from kind of AI agent training is kind of something that goes along cognitive diversity, like the way that I use Pie and ChatGPT and Cloudsonnet and everything else is very often I'm saying, saying, here's what I think. What's the counterargument? Or here's what I think. Like, for example, with super agency, what would a historian of technology, how would she critique this? And that actually helps your thinking get a lot better. And if the agents just kind of nudge in that direction, because obviously we as human beings speak about a human nature thing, have massive confirmation bias.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Bias.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Right. So whether you're red, blue, anything else, it's like the tendency is to go to confirmation bias and you have to be disciplined about like, okay, where is this accurate and where is it a confirmation bias? You know, kind of.

[Samantha B.]

Sam, to your skepticism.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Skepticism, you know, pessimism, you know, concern. You can't get the future you want by eliminating the futures you don't want.

[Samantha B.]

I think that's true. I think that's great. But I do. I will say this. I need to say this. I think we need, like, guidelines. I think we need guardrails. I think that human beings have to be forced to do the right thing. We resist seat belts. We resist packaging on our cigarettes that tell us that they cause cancer. We resist things that are good for us. We have to be kind of forced to do so. I just, I appreciate. I want. There need to be people like you who have an optimistic vision of the future. I just think there are an equal measure of people who have.

[Joanna Coles]

Have.

[Samantha B.]

Who will take advantage of people. And so we need guardrails to like, counter affect those people.

[Joanna Coles]

And let's face it, Reid, you are. You have somewhere to go because you're one of the investors in this crazy new city near San Francisco.

[Samantha B.]

You.

[Joanna Coles]

You can run off and leave us all behind if you want. What's. What is the latest on. I can't remember what it's called, but it's where you've all got together and bought this land and are building a whole new life.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, California forever. It's in Solano County. It's making good progress. And who doesn't want a new city that has walkable paths and green energy and a bunch of other things? But by the way, I'm not going to run off there myself. I'm going to invite all my friends to come. Yes. If people want to come. But building new cities is actually the kind of really big ambitious thing that we should do more of. And when you think about it, it's like it brings economics. It can be designed from a viewpoint of being much better for a sharing economy and, and, and kind of transport. It can be much more human in terms of walkable and green areas. And that was part of the reason why I signed onto it. And I don't know exactly what, what's public, but they're making great progress.

[Samantha B.]

Do we think that the benefits will outweigh the energy usage? Because there's like discussion of like the. That AI's energy usage was in part responsible for the wildfires in Calif. How are we solving for that?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, this goes back to the kind of people trying to get on a podium and yell very loudly when there's very little basis in any fact.

[Samantha B.]

Okay.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

If you think about it, it's something like maximum 5% of energy currently is in data centers. And of that maximum, call it 2% of that, is currently the AI workloads. So the level of electricity that is currently being used is really not that much now. It could be growing exponentially, which is one of the reasons I asked the question. But here's the thing. All of the hyperscalers are committed to and building massively green data centers. And part of how that benefits green energy across society is they're going in and making many billion dollar commitments to like geothermal companies, solar companies, wind companies, etc. Etc. To say, hey, we need this for powering our data centers because we are essentially making this commitment to be green for all the incremental. And then by the way, now that technology stood up, now it can be used for home heating and charging your AV and all the rest of the stuff. So that's one area where it's net positive and then the other one is already Google's DeepMind some eight years ago applied their algorithms on how to make the kind of Google data centers, which are already highly optimized, more efficient. They got a minimum of 15% more efficiency. Think if you're applying AI to grid efficiency. So this is again kind of like looking at what actually is going to happen and what you can build with this technology. But of course people like to posture like oscillations. I'm good climate person and those AI people are evil anti climate people because it's using electricity and it's going to be terrible. It's like, well, no, do your work.

[Samantha B.]

Interesting.

[Joanna Coles]

Close observers will notice that I have got a Masters of Scale mug from your first ever live podcast, Riet Hoffman.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Just saying, as much as I'm a little embarrassed by the fact that it sports an illustration of my face, I am very grateful. Fault.

[Joanna Coles]

It's all good. So just give us. Before you go, if you were a betting man, what would you say the chances are of Stargate working?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

I would say very high because I think that the scale compute stuff really matters now. I think there's some other things like the CHIPS act and other things that also need to be working well. But I think that the notion of building scale computer is one of the things that's going to be part of leadership in AI. And I think the plan is carefully crafted. So, I don't know, entrepreneurship stuff is never greater than 80%, so maybe it's 50, but I think it's got a real shot.

[Joanna Coles]

And what about Doge, again? If you were a betting man, Vivek Ramaswamy has already left the building. Or perhaps a better way of putting it, it is Trump versus Elon. Who wins?

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Well, I think in that case, Trump would win. I think that with Doge, what I'm hopeful for. Look, we all want kind of a, you know, we know there's a huge amount of bureaucracy and a huge amount of waste in government. We all would like that to be refactored some. I would also like it to be refactored in a compassionate way. You know, I think that just because you're doing some job and work refactoring doesn't mean you have to be, be, you know, cruel about it. And so, you know, maybe this is again, my incurable optimism, but, like, I want the refactoring. I also would like it to be a little bit more, you know, human.

[Samantha B.]

I think we could take all of our life savings and just put it in Melania coins, Melania Trump meme coins, and we'll just be fine, right? That's how it works.

[Joanna Coles]

We'll be best.

[Samantha B.]

They best.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

The best ever, right?

[Samantha B.]

Best ever. Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Reid Hoffman, thank you so much for your time. Good luck with your book.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Thank you both.

[Samantha B.]

Thank you so, so much.

[Joanna Coles]

Did that make you feel more optimistic about AI?

[Samantha B.]

No, it made me feel much, much worse.

[Joanna Coles]

Actually.

[Samantha B.]

It made me feel so much worse because the only real upside I'm hearing is as a medically medical diagnostic tool, which, like, okay, I acknowledge, I acknowledge that, that. But I actually think it's very unrealistic to look at a world that has no controls, that doesn't control for people's bad behavior. And I didn't hear any kind of. There aren't any Solutions in play. There aren't any. And there are predators and there are a lot of predators, and all those predators are in the White House right now doing grifting beyond imagination. And that's at the White House level. So if, like, this is actually the world that we actually live in. And I just, I think it's wonderful. And I think you need visionaries like Reed. I think he's great. He is great. But it's easy to think the best of people when you are very wealthy. It really is. You see the best of everything. But when you are on the flip side of that and you're getting preyed upon by any number of people and the government who controls your life and your destiny, it's just like a different. It's just a different perspective. And I can't help it. I am also Canadian. I, you know, I pay my taxes. I wish my tax money didn't go to torpedoes. Like, you know, I, I just like, feel that we are living in the real world and you have to have visionaries and you have to have futurists and you have to have all that. But there's just a lot of people, like millions and millions and hundreds of millions of people who are going to be. They're not going to reap the benefits of this. Like, you can't just like, not have health care for people and offer an AI diagnostic tool. Like, you can't just like take WebMD and make it healthcare. That's not how it works.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm not sure that's what he's saying. Right.

[Samantha B.]

Well, that's what I think will happen. Happen. I think that doctors will be. I think that doctors will be usurped. I think it will be harder to see a doctor. I think it'll be much harder.

[Joanna Coles]

But lots of the. Lots of. The healthcare system is completely inefficient. A lot of time people don't see doctors, don't need to see nurses. There is information that you can take yourself. I'm not saying all of it, but I would actually love an AI medical assistant. I find it an absolute nightmare trying to book appointments or get any kind of insurance back. You saw, that was what Luigi Mangioni. It was about, Right. The weird outpouring of support for him because people are united in their frustration with the health service. So something has to give. I do wonder, however, if there is a version of grifter AI where all the grifters can get together and create their own AI network and grift off each other.

[Unknown Speaker 3]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

And leave the Rest of us alone, it's happening.

[Samantha B.]

Our literal president is selling meme coins. We are in an era of zombies, some people trying to elevate humanity. But we're also in an era where the government is literally profiting off of people's naivete on a level that is just, like, actually astonishing. And we're five days in, and I just kind of go, that's great. I appreciate. I appreciate your vision, and I really like him personally. And I think it's a very interesting subject matter. I just don't. I don't really have faith. I don't really have. I, believe me, I think that the majority of people are good people. I actually think people have good intentions, largely. But there are enough people who don't who will make profits off of people at any cost.

[Joanna Coles]

You know what? I wish I'd asked him. I get, and I think probably a lot of other people get a bit of harassment on, like, weird sexual harassment from people I've never met before who send me sort of messages. And I feel like that's an underexplored subject. It's a subject for a different podcast. But I did mean to ask him about it, but I'm curious. Anybody else who's experienced it, comment on YouTube and we'll find your comments.

[Samantha B.]

If you've.

[Joanna Coles]

If you've received unwanted attention, let me put it that way on LinkedIn. Let us know if you have been. Thank you for listening. And if you enjoyed this podcast, please, please subscribe, comment and share it with everyone you know. And some strangers that you don't know, just approach them in and ask them, have you listened to the Daily Beast podcast?

[Samantha B.]

Would you like to subscribe? Put it on a little card and hand it out. Pass it out to strangers.

[Joanna Coles]

Good way to make friends. It's a loneliness epidemic. This is a way of curing the loneliness.

[Samantha B.]

Don't forget to keep sending us emails about the things we're doing and saying to Beast.

[Joanna Coles]

Popping atthedaily beast.com and if you're not a subscriber to the Daily Beast, it's so easy to sign up. Just go to thedailybeast.com and while you're there, you may want to sign up for the Swamp, our new D.C. gossip column covering Trump's Washington mayhem.

[Samantha B.]

That is very exciting. As my personal muse once said, everybody get out there and just be best.

[Joanna Coles]

When are you going to learn it's Beast?

[Samantha B.]

Oh, my God. I. I'm never going to get it.

[Joanna Coles]

This Daily Beast podcast is produced by Sarah Demonkov, Baron Reinstein, Jesse Cannon and Sheamus Calder. Additional writing by Sasha Seinfeld and edited by Deanna Chapman. And this week we're engineered by a newcomer, Johnny Sim.

[Freddie Wong]

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[Samantha B.]

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[Samantha B.]

Acast.

[Joanna Coles]

Com.