Sam Bee on Biden's Big Fail, John Avlon on His Own

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast: Sam Bee on Biden's Big Fail, John Avlon on His Own
Release Date: November 8, 2024
Hosts: Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee
Guests: John Avlon, Michael Ian Black

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Daily Beast Podcast, co-hosts Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee delve into the aftermath of what they describe as "the most extraordinary election of our lifetime." Joined by prominent guests John Avlon—a journalist and Democratic politician—and Michael Ian Black, the conversation navigates the tumultuous political landscape, election night experiences, and the broader implications for American democracy.

Election Night Reactions

The episode opens with Joanna and Samantha sharing their personal experiences from election night. Samantha recounts the surreal atmosphere, likening it to "a bad night in your household" and drawing parallels to the unsettling vibes of the 2016 election.

Samantha Bee [03:06]: "I immediately felt those 2016 vibes."

Joanna provides an insider's perspective from the Daily Beast newsroom, describing it as their "Super Bowl," with a team clad in diverse foods representing various cultures, reflecting the organization's global reach.

Joanna Coles [04:15]: "This is our Super Bowl. We had a very rousing start to the evening from Ben Sherwood..."

Inside the Daily Beast Newsroom

Joanna offers a vivid description of the election night setup at the Daily Beast, emphasizing the collaborative spirit and anticipation among the staff. Despite the high-stress environment, she highlights the camaraderie and meticulous preparation that underscored the night's events.

Joanna Coles [05:20]: "We had fish and chips to represent the British people in the office. We had sushi, we had salads, we had pizzas."

Introducing Michael Ian Black

Michael Ian Black joins the conversation, bringing his unique blend of comedy and political commentary. Joanna introduces him as a versatile contributor with a rich background in acting, writing, and comedy.

Joanna Coles [09:29]: "Michael is now a beast of an actor. He's a comedian, a writer, He's a regular contributor to the Daily Beast and beyond."

Campaign Reflections with John Avlon

John Avlon shares his firsthand experience running for Congress in New York's District 1. Despite garnering significant support, he ultimately lost to Republican incumbent Nicholas LaLota with a 55% to 44% vote share.

Joanna Coles [26:08]: "Tell us about the campaign. First of all, why did you run?"

Avlon discusses the motivations behind his candidacy, emphasizing a desire to counteract what he perceives as threats to American democracy. He reflects on the challenges faced during the campaign, including a "red wave" that impacted many swing districts.

John Avlon [27:24]: "Democrats do need to, I think, get not uselessly introspective, but honestly introspective."

Analyzing Democratic Strategies and Election Outcomes

The conversation delves into the strategies employed by the Democratic Party and the factors contributing to their electoral performance. Avlon critiques the party's handling of identity politics and calls for a reassessment of their approach to address economic insecurity and disenfranchisement among voters.

John Avlon [27:48]: "There were seven members of the House who represent who supported the policy known as defund the police, which I think is the most self-defeating slogan in recent political memory."

Media's Role and Social Media Influence

Discussion turns to the pivotal role of media platforms like X (formerly Twitter) and TikTok in shaping voter perceptions and disseminating information. The hosts and guests explore how these platforms influenced the election narrative and voter engagement.

Michael Ian Black [36:29]: "I think she [Kamala Harris] should have, I think podcasts. I mean, nonetheless, it's enormously impactful."

Identity Politics and Voter Dynamics

A significant portion of the episode addresses identity politics, particularly focusing on white identity and its impact on voter behavior. The guests examine the complexities of voter motivations, challenging assumptions about demographic voting patterns.

Michael Ian Black [40:59]: "Young white men, or white men who were working their ass off and trying to provide for a family... do not remotely reflect their day-to-day experience."

Women in Politics: Challenges and Representation

The podcast also tackles the hurdles women face in political arenas. The discussion highlights societal biases, the double standards in leadership perceptions, and the underrepresentation of women in high-ranking political positions.

Samantha Bee [49:20]: "Success and likability are positively correlated for men and negatively correlated for women."

Future of American Politics and Journalism

Looking ahead, Joanna and Samantha, along with their guests, contemplate the future trajectory of American politics under the new administration. Concerns are raised about the state of journalism, media accountability, and the essential role of independent reporting in maintaining democratic integrity.

Michael Ian Black [30:42]: "Journalism needs to take very seriously the need to regain trust."

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the resilience required to navigate the current political climate. John Avlon emphasizes the importance of modeling democratic principles and maintaining journalistic integrity in challenging times.

John Avlon [45:34]: "We need strong, independent journalism more than ever right now."

Joanna and Samantha wrap up by reaffirming their commitment to insightful and critical discussions, encouraging listeners to engage with complex political issues through thoughtful dialogue.

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Notable Quotes:

• Samantha Bee [03:06]: "I immediately felt those 2016 vibes."
• Joanna Coles [04:15]: "This is our Super Bowl. We had a very rousing start to the evening from Ben Sherwood..."
• John Avlon [27:24]: "Democrats do need to, I think, get not uselessly introspective, but honestly introspective."
• Michael Ian Black [40:59]: "Young white men... do not remotely reflect their day-to-day experience."
• Michael Ian Black [30:42]: "Journalism needs to take very seriously the need to regain trust."

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This in-depth episode offers listeners a multifaceted analysis of the recent election, exploring the interplay between media influence, voter identity, and the evolving dynamics of American politics. Through candid conversations and expert insights, The Daily Beast Podcast provides a nuanced understanding of the challenges and opportunities that lie ahead.

Transcript

[Samantha Bee]

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[Joanna Coles]

Did you get those social media posts.

[Michael Ian Black]

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[Samantha Bee]

Aye aye Captain.

[Michael Ian Black]

We even have an automated notification for all pod managers when they go live.

[Joanna Coles]

They use Monday.com to keep their teamwork.

[Samantha Bee]

Sharp, their communication clear and their goals in sight.

[Michael Ian Black]

Monday.com or whatever you run.

[Samantha Bee]

Even orcas go to Monday.com to dive deeper. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds.

[Michael Ian Black]

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[Samantha Bee]

The opposite of what big wireless does.

[Michael Ian Black]

They charge you a lot, we charge you a little. So naturally, when they announced they'd be raising their prices due to inflation, we.

[Samantha Bee]

Decided to deflate our prices due to not hating you.

[Michael Ian Black]

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[Samantha Bee]

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[John Avlon]

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[Joanna Coles]

Welcome to the Daily Beast Podcast. I'm Joanna Coles, Chief Content Officer of the Daily Beast.

[Samantha Bee]

And I am Samantha Bee, Chief Content officer and professional casting agent for a whole squad of gorgeous fake melanias.

[Joanna Coles]

It's Friday, three days after the most extraordinary election of our lifetime, so we've got an All Politics episode for you. And on today's show we are joined by Beast contributor and co writer of Lean in, the bestselling book about female leadership, Nell Scovell. As Beast of the Week, we're talking to journalist and Democratic politician John Avlon about his closely watched congressional race and its parallels to the Trump campaign. And we've got comedian and host of CNNs new very fun game show, have I Got News for your and Beast columnist Michael Ian Black. But more importantly, Sam, how did you spend election night?

[Samantha Bee]

Well, how. I. Boy, okay.

[Joanna Coles]

I feel like it was a bad night in your household. It was a.

[Samantha Bee]

It was actually a. Weirdly, it was not an average night in my household, certainly. But I started watching all the coverage. I started watching the results. I immediately felt those 2016 vibes. And I actually walked away from the television and instead I watched the Martha Stewart doc, which is excellent.

[Joanna Coles]

It's so good.

[Samantha Bee]

And we can talk about it at a later date. And we're not gonna talk about it today because I have a lot of thoughts.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I hope that we can get Martha on to talk about it. I interviewed Martha about a month ago and she just said she didn't like it. And since then she's been more vocal about not liking it. She felt it made her look sad. And she's definitely not sad. Oh, well. But I hope we can get her on to talk about it.

[Samantha Bee]

It was a great alt to watching talking heads go through election results, which is never fun for me. And I actually never like watching it. And then after the results came in, I simply could not summon tears. Joanna, I beg you to tell me, what was it like in the Daily Beast newsroom? Cause I bet you had those TVs blaring, all those talking heads talking about crap.

[Joanna Coles]

We did. Well, you can't have them blaring because then it would be too difficult for everybody to work. But we have four big TV screens on. The entire of the staff was basically there. People came in from everywhere to do it. We also had a big crew on in London. And you know, this is what we live for. For us, it's very exciting. This is our Super Bowl. We had a very rousing start to the evening from Ben Sherwood, who you know and who is the CEO of the Daily Beast and my partner in crime, I like to say. And he had run very successfully ABC News. So he is very familiar with this territory. And everybody was just thrilled to be there. We had an enormous array of completely oddly juxtaposed food. So we had, I think every nation's food was represented, apart from maybe Afghanistan.

[Samantha Bee]

Tell me, describe what did you eat? What did you drink? Where did you sleep? Do you have a cot?

[Joanna Coles]

We didn't need a cot because it was very clear very early on what was going to happen. And everybody was pacing, thinking, have we prepared right? Do we have enough pre rights for this?

[Samantha Bee]

Describe your spread.

[Joanna Coles]

We had fish and chips to represent the British people in the office. We had sushi, we had salads, we had pizzas. I was anxious that people were going to eat carbs and it was going to slow them down.

[Samantha Bee]

Sure.

[Joanna Coles]

But I would like to say I didn't smoke, but I wanted to. I didn't drink vodka, but I wanted to. It's a bit like the non Bridget, Bridget Jones diary here. It was an abstemious night from that point of view. I mainlined protein for energy and lots of water.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, you know what distress burns carbs like, does it?

[Joanna Coles]

I know. Well, that's good for the next four years.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm actually just so tickled imagining what your workplace smells like even a few days later, because I know that you don't have a single window in that building that you can pop open.

[Joanna Coles]

There were a lot of people who'd come in with their wash bags. So there was a lot of teeth brushing going on. Hugh Doherty, our executive editor, led the troops in the charge. It was very exciting.

[Samantha Bee]

That is delightful. Okay, I want to say, before we move on, I want to say congratulations on that big full spread in the New York Times.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you.

[Samantha Bee]

The other day. Very good.

[Joanna Coles]

That was a fun piece for us.

[Samantha Bee]

And I do want to say congrats on a great photo following the New York magazine photo fiasco. And as I texted you, the article refers to you as a glamorous Britain. And that's all that I needed to read.

[Joanna Coles]

And I'm happy to take it. Thank you. What I am told I'm reliably informed that there is apparently a podcast out there that talks about the New York media. And my photo in New York magazine was ranked number one worst. Number one worst in the top ten.

[Samantha Bee]

You redeemed yourself. And I guess I just have a couple of. I just have a question for you because, you know, in light of the decision that America has delivered onto us, did you have. What does it see? What is it like post decision? What is your. Do you have an all hands come to Jesus the next day? And you think, okay, well this is what, the next four years?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, for us. For us it's business as usual, right? Because we're going to have a new administration to cover. It's going to be an exciting administration to cover because they're not predictable. Donald Trump is not a predictable leader. He loves being covered by the press. We know that basically his job as president is to Sit and watch television all day. And we are all, now, I feel like big parts or extras in his reality show. America has been turned into the Donald Trump reality show.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't want to say that his job is to sit and watch TV all day. I think he has a different. I don't think he's supposed to watch the Golf Channel all day, but I.

[Joanna Coles]

Think what he's doing is watching himself all day and watching what works and what doesn't work. Right. He's very cognizant of the ratings. He's a performer, he's an entertainer, he has fans. That's how he thinks of himself.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, boy.

[Joanna Coles]

And that's very interesting for journalists to cover.

[Samantha Bee]

Is everybody up for this? Is anyone up for this? Because by the time the next four years is over, we will have had 12 years of wall to wall Trump in our eyeballs. Is anyone up for this?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I think if they're not up for it, they need to leave now. This is going to be an incredibly interesting time in American history. I mean, he's got all three parts of the government. It's astonishing what the Republicans have pulled off. And we are going to have a front row seat to history.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, we will be talking about that today. And I do want to, I do want to make note of one exciting thing, which is that together being interviewed on the podcast Pivot next week.

[Joanna Coles]

We are.

[Samantha Bee]

So we need to be ready for that. We are.

[Joanna Coles]

We do. We need to do lots of prep. I'm going to start running around the book.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, you're not. We're not allowed to be vague about this podcast.

[Joanna Coles]

Is that what they said?

[Samantha Bee]

Pivot? I just think we just need to have a mission statement. We need our own constitution.

[Joanna Coles]

We do.

[Samantha Bee]

All right.

[Joanna Coles]

You could write that. You write it and I'll edit.

[Samantha Bee]

I said I thought you were going to write it. Okay.

[Joanna Coles]

We're joined now by comedian and beast contributor Michael Ian Black, who nobly dropped out of NYU to promote the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on stage reenactment. Well, someone had to do it. Thankfully, things got better from there. And Michael is now a beast of an actor. He's a comedian, a writer, He's a regular contributor to the Daily Beast and beyond. His work on shows like Wet Hot American Summer, the State, and have I Got News for your. He recently penned a very popular column on the Daily Beast called here's what I Learned From Trump's Victory. I'm the problem. It's me. Michael, thanks for coming in.

[Samantha Bee]

Can I ask how you know each Other. Because you've known each other for a long time.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, no, we met at, we met at the Daily Beast, actually, because Michael has been writing a column that appears on Wednesday.

[Samantha Bee]

Read it.

[Nell Scovell]

We're work colleagues.

[Joanna Coles]

We're colleagues. Yeah, we were colleagues. And then I did the thing that you're going to do, which is I got shot out of a cannon on have I Got News for you?

[Samantha Bee]

Textbook.

[Joanna Coles]

It felt fine because Michael, Ian Black was our team captain.

[Samantha Bee]

That is fantastic. I thought you knew each other for 39 years.

[Nell Scovell]

Neither of us are 39 years old.

[Samantha Bee]

I know. How could that be impossible?

[Joanna Coles]

How could that be. So, Michael, thank you for joining us this morning. Your column, what I Learned from Donald Trump's Victory, I'm the Problem, It's Me was our most read piece. I think maybe this week. It clearly hit a nerve with everybody.

[Nell Scovell]

Do I get a bonus when that happens?

[Joanna Coles]

No. In fact, you get less money for that.

[Samantha Bee]

You get to be on the podcast. Isn't that prize enough?

[Joanna Coles]

Prize enough. Thank you. So talk us through this piece.

[Nell Scovell]

Well, I mean, obviously, but it's like we fight, meaning people like me for the qualities and attitudes and attributes and principles that we believe in. And then to be repudiated so soundly, same attributes, traits, qualities, and principles. Makes me feel like, you know what? For the entire Trump era, people in my Twitter feed have been telling me that I'm the problem and people like me are the problem. And I think maybe they're right. Maybe I am the problem. Maybe these things aren't what I should be fighting for or at least putting my attention to. If we, if we take the Trump voter at their word, they're dispossessed and economically insecure. And I have no reason not to take them at their word. It's just that when they decide to accommodate blatant racism, misogyny, anti Democratic attitudes, and let's say lowercase f fascism along with it, it's like, I don't know what to do. And so for me, I just feel like, okay, I'm the problem. I'm just going to step back.

[Joanna Coles]

And you're not even an urban elite either. I mean, you're living in Savannah, Georgia.

[Samantha Bee]

What is the temperature in Savannah? Do you feel aligned with the community of people around you?

[Nell Scovell]

Well, Savannah's a very liberal town. I mean, there's a big old school here. It's a very kind of creative, offbeat community. It has its own Southern money, too. And so there definitely is like a, you know, a Trump presence, but it's a majority black City. It's very diverse, and it makes me. Yeah, I do feel more aligned here in a certain way than I did when I was in Connecticut for the last 20 years, which was very Connecticutian, as you can imagine.

[Joanna Coles]

I've always thought it was the least sexy state in the nation. Connecticut.

[Nell Scovell]

Connecticut. Sex is for Connecticut.

[Samantha Bee]

How dare you? There's all the key parties. All the best key parties take place.

[Joanna Coles]

In Connecticut, to my point. The least sexy place in the nation.

[Samantha Bee]

Have you not been to Arkansas, but.

[Joanna Coles]

At least Arkansas, you've got that kind of Southern. You've got trees dripping with Spanish moss, haven't you?

[Samantha Bee]

Is there anybody running a ghost tour down there who needs a new host? Because I'm without a hosting job, and I think I could really kill it.

[Nell Scovell]

Oh, I think you'd do great. Thank you. Savannah is known as the most haunted city in America. Every night when you walk around, there's dozens of ghost tours. And so there's, like, converted hearses that people make where they chop off the roof and people sit in the back of the hearse looking around. Sam, I think you'd be great.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much. Do you feel like there's any value in the finger pointing? Is there a value to be had in assigning blame? Are we. Do you foresee us on a path of kind of weeding out toxins, as it were?

[Nell Scovell]

No.

[Samantha Bee]

No. Okay.

[Nell Scovell]

Toxins will remain. In fact, they will dominate. At the moment, No, I don't see any need for finger pointing. I think there's a. There's. There's a way to look at data analytics, let's say in three or four or six months, and do a more sober assessment of what happened. But this idea that X is to blame or Y is to blame. No, America is to blame. The people who looked at Donald Trump and thought that they wanted a piece of the four years that he was president, they are to blame. The one thing I don't want to do is blame the Kamala campaign. I thought she ran just great. Inspiring, and, yes, I will say the damn word, joyful campaign. It rescued what was a more abundant presidential season and turned it into a cause for hope and optimism, and I'm very grateful for that. I thought Tim Walls was a fantastic vice presidential candidate. I thought she worked her ass off. I don't know that. I don't know that we could have expected anything more or a better candidate, but she had some structural problems. One, a vagina, and two, is the wrong amount of melanin content in her skin. And I'm Sorry, I just believe that somebody tweeted last night. If she had run the same exact campaign, but she was a white dude, she wouldn't want walking away. And it's hard for me to argue that. I feel like that's probably right.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, I could not take issue with that either. I totally agree with you. And I do think that there is a really critical misunderstanding or just everybody underestimated the power of people's desire for change of any kind.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I think they think this is change, don't they? Isn't the point of Donald Trump that he is a change?

[Samantha Bee]

That's what I'm saying. They underestimated, like, oh, I thought you.

[Joanna Coles]

Meant they wanted change with her.

[Samantha Bee]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I think everybody underestimated how much people were willing to throw the deck of cards up in the air to achieve change.

[Nell Scovell]

But, I mean, we did it. We did it once before, and we've all memory holed chaos and banality and incompetence and drifting. And somehow he was able to project this narrative that it and prosperity as opposed to incompetence and chaos, which is what it was.

[Samantha Bee]

When the results were rolling in and you could kind of see the way things were going. How did it sit in your body? I'm so curious because I had a lot of people come up to me the day after and, like, touch their hearts and look at me mournfully, and I was like, you know what? I'm not even. There's no tear. There's no tears. This is the choice. I don't feel good about it. This is not what I wanted, but I can't. I'm not going to, like, tear my heart out of my chest on the street. I mean, this is the choice people made. It's the overwhelming choice. It's a full mandate.

[Nell Scovell]

I'm like you. My son, who's 23, was kind of spiraling, and I said to him, which is true. In 2016, I was exactly where you are. I was, like, devastated. I was freaked out. I was scared. And as difficult as those four years were, and as tenuous as they felt, we got through it. I don't have the same level of confidence that we're gonna get through it now. Then I do. Then for all the reasons that have been talked about ad nauseam, what am I gonna do? I mean, you still have to get up here today. I still have podcast obligations.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, my God, you do have podcast obligations.

[Nell Scovell]

And I sort of feel like, you know what? I'm willing to check Out. Because like I said, if I'm the problem. Okay, so let me. Let me just hang back and let's. You've got everything that you wanted. You've got a compliant senate, you've got a compliant house, you've got a Supreme Court, you've got immunity. Have at it, dude. Maybe you'll make so much better. I don't think so, but I've been. I'm wrong about everything else. Maybe I'm wrong about this.

[Samantha Bee]

Are you going to stay on Twitter for the next four years? What's the four days, two minutes I'm out.

[Nell Scovell]

Every. Every day is a fight to stay on or go off. But I've got the benefit of addiction.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

So talking of X or Twitter.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, yeah, right.

[Joanna Coles]

Elon Musk appears to be a player in all this.

[Samantha Bee]

For now.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think it's. I mean, last week we had on the show Michael Wolff, who predicted that it would end in tears. Elon and Donald Trump, probably Donald Trump's tears.

[Samantha Bee]

I think it will end in tears because you can't have two people who want to be king. You can't have two people who want to be boss.

[Joanna Coles]

King of the world, King of the.

[Samantha Bee]

World, King of the universe, King of the galaxy. Cannot have that. That does not work. That ends in bitterness. I mean, but again, what do I know? Maybe it'll be great.

[Nell Scovell]

Every person he brings in, it ends with tears. I mean, it always ends with tears. Except for Ben Clemson, who's asleep for four years.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, tears or jail.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Or maybe tears in jail. Tears and jail.

[Nell Scovell]

Yeah. I mean, I think we can take jail off the table for anybody with an R next to their name.

[Joanna Coles]

And of course, you and Donald Trump have something in common because his younger son goes to your alma mater, nyu, which you dropped out of to promote the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. That's right, Joanna, the stage show.

[Samantha Bee]

I love it when people bring up the stage shows that I participated in because I was in the live stage production of Sailor Moon. So you and I have quite a bit in common, sir.

[Nell Scovell]

What's Silver Moon? What is that?

[Samantha Bee]

Sailor Moon, the anime classic.

[Joanna Coles]

I've never. Sailor Scout.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh. I danced and sang on a stage for just thousands of extremely bored children.

[Nell Scovell]

I'd love to hear one of your numbers.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, when I'm down in Savannah, it'll be part of my. It will be the kind of the end. It'll be the big finale to my ghost tour. The ghosts of my former jobs. Kate, I want to ask you about. Have I got news for you, because I think it's a great show. I love it. I think Roy's a great host. You're a great team captain. I love Amber Ruffin. It's really fun to watch. Like, is everybody sitting down? I guess you're off. I guess you're dark this week. That was a wise choice.

[Nell Scovell]

It was smart. Yeah. I think everybody thought it was going to be election chaos as it proposed to election. Utter depression and devastation.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah. Yeah, I guess. How do you reassess? Do you. I guess the show doesn't need a reassessment. Or will you all sit together and have a kind of an all hands and go, oh, okay, now we carry. Carry on. Just do things the way they were. What's the tone? Is there anything that will change in the show?

[Nell Scovell]

We're all. We're gonna go pro maga. I mean, yes.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, okay, great.

[Nell Scovell]

We're fully pro maga starting next week.

[Samantha Bee]

Mm, wonderful.

[Nell Scovell]

I guess that's probably the biggest.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, it's, it's a subtle change. Subtle but important.

[Nell Scovell]

The, the, the purpose of the show and, you know, I think any comedy is to make fun of people and make fun of people in power, and we'll certainly have our hands for the next, hopefully four years.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, I would appreciate if you give me all the answers to the questions in advance.

[Nell Scovell]

Well, that's the beautiful thing is we don't prepare. You know, you're just, you're gonna, you're gonna show up there at 5:00, you're gonna get a talking to from the producers, and then we're gonna send you out there into the lion's den. And because you're such a smart, cogent, articulate young woman, you'll have no problem.

[Samantha Bee]

I didn't miss everything in that sentence. Except when you said that I was a young woman.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

And that was nice. That felt good.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Michael, keep writing. Your columns are very good. And when you say that, you really don't understand it at all. How do you stay engaged with it?

[Nell Scovell]

Oh, I think I've decided to disengage at all. I mean, that's maybe more cynical than I intend, but there is a. There definitely is a feeling like I'm just wrong. They clearly don't reflect out of my country, man. At least not enough to elect somebody highly qualified, competent, and competent. As opposed to somebody who's just gonna tear through the country like only a china shop. So I'm wrong. And I need to understand better why I'm wrong.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I'm still impressed that you've got a son who's 23 because you don't look old enough.

[Samantha Bee]

You're a delight.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, Michael, thank you. And we want to invite you to be a more frequent contributor to the podcast. We need our Southern correspondent. You're our Georgia correspondent.

[Samantha Bee]

Can you bring me a pint of ice cream next? Next time?

[Nell Scovell]

I can. I will.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

Peach cobbler, delicious green beans, which are fantastic. Okay, Michael, you are released. Thank you very much.

[Samantha Bee]

Gifting is hard, but here's a hint. Give the gift of connection from US Cellular. Not sure what that means. Well, here's a slightly more specific hint.

[Michael Ian Black]

You can choose four free phones and get four lines for $90 a month from US Cellular.

[Samantha Bee]

Your family wants new phones, so how do we know? They told us. Yeah.

[Michael Ian Black]

The good news is that compared to.

[John Avlon]

Wrapping presents, you're great at getting hints.

[Samantha Bee]

So take the hint and get them four free phones and four lines for $90 a month. US Cellular built for us.

[John Avlon]

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[Samantha Bee]

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[Joanna Coles]

We're joined now by our Beast of the Week, John Avlon. He's the former editor in chief of the Daily Beast and former senior political analyst and anchor for cnn. He started as Rudy Giuliani's speechwriter, and John's career has been dripping with success, I guess, up until now. For this election, he ran for Congress on Long island in New York's District 1 in Suffolk County. But he lost to Nicholas LaLota, a Republican incumbent who won 55% of the vote to John's 44%.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much. It's so delightful to be talking to you. Thanks for saying yes to us, of.

[Michael Ian Black]

Course, to the Beast. Always once a beast, always a beast.

[Joanna Coles]

Tell us about the campaign. First of all, why did you run?

[Michael Ian Black]

Well, I ran because I felt like talking about this election on TV was civically lazy, frankly, given the stakes of the race. I believed that our American democracy was in danger and that Margaret and I ultimately decided, my wife, Margaret Hoover, that we didn't want to look at our kids and tell them when we could have done more, when it mattered most. And so I'm glad I got in the arena. We fought the good fight. Our polls showed us that we were surging and in a position to win. And then the red wave that affected so many swing districts hit us. But Democrats do need to, I think, get not uselessly introspective, but honestly introspective. And I'm always a country over party guy, a principal over party guy. I was an independent for 20 years as a journalist, and I meant it right. I just felt there was one party that actually believed in bipartisanship that was building a big tent right now. So I do think the Democrats got to, as I've said, stand up to the far left as well as the far right.

[Joanna Coles]

How do you, John, how do you do that? What's the mechanism for the Democrats rethinking or for the Democrats analyzing what went wrong?

[Michael Ian Black]

Well, look, there will be 1001 forensics, but I do think it requires dealing with, you know, in polls consistently, people perceive the Democratic Party as equally extreme as the Republican Party. Now it's not. I can push back on that in a million different ways and did so during the campaign with some data. ICRubs There were seven members of the House who represent who supported the policy known as defund the police, which I think is the most self defeating slogan in recent political memory.

[Samantha Bee]

This goes back to the last, probably.

[Joanna Coles]

The worst three words uttered in modern politics.

[Michael Ian Black]

Yeah. But 139 House Republicans voted to overturn the election after the attack on the Capitol. That's a qualitative, fundamental difference. But I do think in states like New York, taxes are too high. The core of my campaign was the slogan rebuild the middle. We got to rebuild the middle of our politics and rebuild the middle of our economy. And those two things are connected. And I think it also means speaking out with moral clarity when there's illiberalism on the far left. I think that's really important.

[Samantha Bee]

How do we, I mean, how do we even begin, really? I mean, how do we begin to have civilization, substantive conversations in the wake of everything that has just passed? I am literally asking you how we do that because I don't know.

[Michael Ian Black]

My favorite sadly apocryphal Abraham Lincoln quote is I'm an optimist because I don't see the point in being anything else. But I'm not trying to sugarcoat the dangers of this American moment. You know, the idea that Trump could get more votes after trying to overturn our democracy on the back of a lie is something that is a challenge to all my notions of ethics and honor and decency.

[Joanna Coles]

Can I push back on one thing? I think a lot of people feel that January 6th was a bunch of strange losers who turned up at the Capitol. But the fact that they were all filming themselves and putting it on Facebook. Facebook, of all social media platforms, doesn't suggest that it was actually an organized effort to take over our democracy. I'm not saying it was a great moment in American life, but I'm not sure that people bought that it was actually a systematic takeover of the American democratic system.

[Michael Ian Black]

What it was clearly was a semi coordinated effort to stop the certification by deadlines, to try to create a constitutional crisis, to say that they didn't lose an election that they did, and then to try to seize power if they could. I'm not saying there's any easy answers here. There's not. And this is going to be a very. The thing I'm most concerned about is that the alliance of autocracies are going to be emboldened at this moment. And frankly, also American journalism seems to be on the back foot and it's vitally important that journalists are up to the challenge of covering this administration fairly accurately, honestly and aggressively.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, I guess I do worry about that. Vengeance and retribution. I think it's going to be such a murky phase of life for journalists coming into the next four years. What is your take on that? I just really, I'm very worried for the state of journalism and broadcast television.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I was going to ask you, John, what did you think of Jeff Bezos decision, which we discussed on last week's pod, to not endorse Kamala Harris after the endorsement had been written? And then of course he was very quick onto X to congratulate President Trump on his victory.

[Michael Ian Black]

I thought that was ill timed and did not reflect the courage that Marty Barron had brought to the paper and the kind of self evident moral clarity. Now I do think that journalism needs to take very seriously the need to regain trust. And I think there are interesting ideas on how to do that. But the anticipatory obedience that Timothy Snyder talks about, I think you can see in the decision at the LA Times, the Washington Post and the USA Today. The USA Today perhaps most forgivably given their status, but not the Washington Post given their pedigree. And I think that's one of the dangers. I mean, we do need to be very clear eyed about, you know, I'm a historian on the side and the historical patterns and forces we're dealing with and the idea that big businessmen and very wealthy people can channel someone with autocratic tendencies in a constructive direction that benefits them is one that history suggests is a fool's errand.

[Joanna Coles]

I love the way you say you're a historian on the side. By the way, what are you on the side, Sam?

[Samantha Bee]

The sign. A cowardly baker? No, I don't know. I don't know what I am on the side.

[Joanna Coles]

It's the sort of thing that, you know, I'm a stripper on the side.

[Samantha Bee]

I sort of, it feels like America has become desensitized to the type of behavior that would have just been unthinkable in a leader just 20 years ago. I mean I was there for the Dean scream. That was disqualifying and it was so light heart. I mean it was just not even. It's so irrelevant in today's world. It's pastoral.

[Michael Ian Black]

Pastoral. Look, I do think that's one of the dangers and the things that trouble me the most are there's certain principles that I take as moral bedrock. Right. Character is destiny, decency matters. But we also need to look at the fact that, you know, Latino men seemed to have voted for Donald Trump, that white women voted against the Democratic nominee. Again.

[Joanna Coles]

Can I ask you something? Why is it so surprising that Latino men would vote for Donald Trump? Why is there an assumption that because you are a Latino and you probably got here legally, you would support the idea of people coming in illegally? That feels to me like one of the big mistakes that Democrats made.

[Michael Ian Black]

I agree. And that's one of the reasons I go back to. I think the limitations and people's kickback against. Get pushed back against identity politics, it's ultimately demeaning. Right? I mean, first of all, as has often been said, the Hispanic community is incredibly diverse. You know, Democrats in the last cycle had a hard time, for example, being tough on Castro. Go pull my obit, quote unquote, for Fidel Castro from the Daily Beast, and you'll see I shed no tears for that cat Ortega or Maduro. And folks who get here legally, it's more the dysfunction, right? I mean, and the fact that when people commute from Long island or Westchester and they get out, if they get out at Grand Central Station and they see the Roosevelt Hotel, they get a sense of exaggerated civic disorder. And I do think this is where it's really important that Democrats have to be tough on crime and have to be tough on the causes of crime. They need to be. I campaigned very strongly. I would have voted for that bipartisan border security bill on day one that Donald Trump and my opponent helped kill.

[Samantha Bee]

I think there's. There's no group of voters that is monolithic and that includes women.

[Joanna Coles]

I think there might be a group of voters that I call the CVS voters who want to go into their local cvs, buy things that aren't locked behind glass cupboards. That way you have to press the bell and get someone to come over to get you a tube of toothpaste. I think it's those frustrations which indicate to people that culture's not working for them, and Democrats completely fail to solve it. The idea that you can, you know, steal up to $900 worth of stuff in San Francisco and nobody's going to come after you. That's what impacts people's regular daily lives.

[Samantha Bee]

I also think that we cannot discount the fact that many voters look at Trump and see his life as aspirational. There is something aspirational about just being rich.

[Michael Ian Black]

Not going to feed into that. But I think I agree with Joanna on the first point. Look, the quote that keeps me up at night and has in Politics for a long time is from Bill Clinton where he said people will vote for strong and wrong every time. And that's where I think Democrats need to be stronger. We need to be tougher on crime. When there's civic disorder, people, it needs to be addressed. I mean, this is where it goes back to my background working for Rudy Giuliani when he was saying as mayor of New York, quality of life, policing works. It's important. People don't have a sense of civic chaos and civic disorder. And if you effectively decriminalize shoplifting, that's going to make. That does not resonate as common sense. If people feel that they're going to get civic chaos and, and high crime, they'll vote for the other guy, no matter how bad that is.

[Joanna Coles]

John, also talk about the evolution of the podcast election and you talk about.

[Samantha Bee]

The evolution of this podcast, but you.

[Joanna Coles]

Talk about the right wing media and obviously there's Fox, which has its position. But this has been very much an election where conversations were going on on TikTok, in particular around young people and driving the algorithm driving this sense of we were somehow living through the new depression. X owned by the richest man in the world and currently best friend of Donald Trump, who's promised all sorts of, you know, lucrative government contracts and a role dismantling a lot of government bureaucracy. Talk about x, talk about TikTok, talk about podcasts, talk about Joe Rogan. Should Kamala have done Joe Rogan?

[Michael Ian Black]

Yes, the answer is always to reach out and not be afraid to go on and have extended, open, honestly conversations. That's just about authenticity. And even to go into areas where you perceive it will have the confidence to go into, speak to audiences you may perceive will be tough or not on quote, unquote, your side. That's part of, frankly, the obligation of running. And I tried to do that. I do think she should have, I think podcasts. I mean, nonetheless, it's enormously impactful. There's a lot of different ways. I think the whole process of spreading a message needs to be fundamentally reimagined.

[Joanna Coles]

But this just sounds like the Republicans figured out how to send their message more effectively. I mean, when you say about authenticity, yes, she should have gone on Joe Rogan. One of the criticisms of Kamala Harris was that she didn't appear to be authentic, that she said the same things time and again and she only went on friendly media.

[Michael Ian Black]

Yeah. And look, I think she actually ran. We need the full data. And this is about Musk throwing in on X. Remember, initially he was Going to stand up to the far right and the far left and all that stuff. And then he threw all in. And I think the impact of Musk throwing in personally and not being held to standards of military contractors and the impact of X and his effort probably is one of the most important, probably still underappreciated aspects of this election.

[Samantha Bee]

And I think it needs to be said before we move on from this point that the Republican Party, the GOP in particular, is willing to say absolutely anything. They were literally willing to spread a lie that is so pernicious and so damaging and spread it all over the place. Haitian populations tearing apart cats and dogs, even cats. And I mean, come on, this was the vice President of the United States spreading this malicious lie that just spread everywhere. So, like, they. Actually, there's. There's more than just better messaging and, like, better mechanism. There's also the fact that a lot of the messaging is just, like, boldly incorrect. And a bold lie that spreads like wildfire because it's so fascinating and interesting and shocking.

[Michael Ian Black]

Well, there's the danger that, you know what Steve Bannon calls flooding the zone with shit, that it means that good people don't want to get in the arena because it seems like a fundamentally indecent place. Why would you risk your family, your finances, your reputation by participating in our democracy? I felt that's exactly what we should do. So I have 0% regrets doing what I did, and I'm proud of the campaign we ran and the people we inspired and we did. But that's one of the things that. How sinister it is to see a lie about an election used as a litmus test for party loyalty, and people fall into line. And when we get numb to that, that's when things get incredibly dangerous. And unfortunately, I think that's where we are. And I do believe in having conversations with Trump supporters, as I did over the course of this campaign, and we won some of their votes.

[Joanna Coles]

John, what did you learn when you had conversations with them, when you were going door to door? What did you learn?

[Michael Ian Black]

What I heard was this. First of all, a lot of Trump voters really do feel we need to reunite as a nation. They feel that their focus is on what they perceive to be intolerance from the far left. And I think that's part of what is driving young men. They don't feel respected. They feel sort of suspect when they're in sort of civic conversations, and that causes them to kick back. The excesses again, of identity politics just getting in the way of treating people as individuals. I think that's part of the undertone and under told story.

[Joanna Coles]

I mean, I have two sons in their mid-20s. I see their friends all the time. And what I hear from them is they feel it. They're almost guilty for being a young white man. They all felt that the education systems they were in were based basically girls schools or girls colleges, which, you know, reluctantly took young men.

[Samantha Bee]

But isn't that also identity politics? You identify as a young man who has grievances in this world where you have so much power and control. You really do. You really do.

[Michael Ian Black]

Well, hold on. So, but yeah, but let's dig into this because this is where I think we start to have a breakdown. I wrote the book Wingnuts Today happens to be my anniversary.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, congratulations, by the way. I meant to say that at the beginning. Congratulations on your wedding anniversary.

[Michael Ian Black]

Congratulations to my wife Margaret, who's the host of Firing Line. And I'll say her show is more important than ever before in terms of a civic space where you can have civil conversations. And I saw people from retirees to union workers to, you know, people love her show because that's what. Not what they're getting. But putting aside that shameless plug for my wife, my wife. Fifteen years ago, two nights ago, I handed in the manuscript for Wingnuts, which was the first beast book, which was a book about wingnuts, how the Lunatic Fringe is Hijacking America. And it was based on my reporting at the time as a columnist about the proto Tea Party protests after Obama was elected. And I did it sort of with a look at what the background history was. But one of the chapters is called the Birth of White Identity Politics or White Minority Politics. So I agree with you.

[Samantha Bee]

That's the.

[Michael Ian Black]

One of the reasons I don't like identity politics is Donald Trump has revealed the dangers of identity politics by weaponizing white identity politics.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes.

[Michael Ian Black]

And as a historian, you know, the resistance to multiracial democracy is profound in our country. We should be studying Reconstruction a heck of a lot more than we do. Right. But the idea that young white men, or white men who were working their ass off and trying to provide for a family at a time when it's more difficult to rise to the middle class and rise out of the middle class and provide for your family, that they are avatars of privilege because of their gender and, and ethnicity or race does not remotely reflect their lived experience. And it causes a lot of righteous resentment. And that's different than grievance politics. What I'm particularly interested in this is a whole separate topic for another day is how you do have a whole series of folks who are millionaires, billionaires, centimillionaires, very wealthy, successful people who spend a lot of time sort of marinating in grievance politics. They feel aggrieved. That's much more absurd to me than a guy who is working his ass off and all of a sudden being told that he's got the beneficiary of white privilege when that doesn't reflect his day to day experience at all.

[Joanna Coles]

You were running in the Hamptons, but you had probably the widest differential of wealth in the entire country because you've got the richest people in America and you've also got some of the poorest people who service the richest people. Did the inequality of wealth come up much?

[Michael Ian Black]

Just to understand, the district is Huntington to Montauk, so it's eastern end of Long island all the way to Huntington. And by the way, the district is one of the most educated districts per capita in the country. But it does have a lot of wealth disparity. And that's what the frustration is. It's the middle class squeeze is going on for decades, which is driving a lot of the anger and frustration in our politics. That's incredibly clear. And the frustration about affordability is fundamental. It's about housing, but it's also inflation and cost of groceries and you know, and just it's harder to make ends meet. The fact that Trump and the Republicans took away the state and local tax deduction is a huge issue here. The fact that they just got elected and will almost certainly not lift that cap and Democrats would have a lot of folks just codified the fact that their taxes got raised. And this particularly disproportionate on, you know, hardworking, you know, middle class families.

[Samantha Bee]

There is not one person that I talk to out in the world outside the bubble of New York, and I do talk to people outside the bubble of New York City, which would be very surprising to you, Joanna.

[Joanna Coles]

It's totally surprising. They're only in Canada.

[Samantha Bee]

There is not one person who does not feel the pinch of prices. It's a big deal. It's a really big deal for people that blueberries cost somehow $11 and they used to cost $3. Like it's a big ass deal. And it is at the forefront of everybody's minds. And, you know, that's just reality.

[Joanna Coles]

John, is this the first time something hasn't gone right for you? You've seen one of those incredibly, this.

[Samantha Bee]

Is the only time yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

Incredibly successful. Your career's had an incredible trajectory. You seem, in all the photos of your campaign, you seem like the perfect family. Is this the first time anything's gone wrong?

[Michael Ian Black]

No, of course not. And look, you know, you deal with difficulty. I'm a big believer that, first of all, one of the few things you can control in life is how hard you work. Two, nothing is given. Three, you know, life is 90% mental. And so you need to. You know, I read the Daily Stoic every day, along with other things with my morning coffee. You know, this has been tough for my kids because they campaigned a lot with me. My son in particular was really into it. This is hard. But you also have to model that, you know, in a democracy, you don't always win. And as I said in my email after the election about fighting, it's called the good fight. I said, look, democracy depends on respecting the results even when you don't win. And patriotism requires loving your country, no matter who's president. I believe those things, but if we believe them, we need to model them.

[Joanna Coles]

What do you do?

[Michael Ian Black]

Now, I did remember, in the context of this campaign, as I had been at the Beast, that I particularly enjoy running things and leading things.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, you're not having that job.

[Nell Scovell]

No, no, no.

[Michael Ian Black]

I'm not coming after your job. You own the joint. Well negotiated.

[Joanna Coles]

But we do want you to come back as a regular contributor to the pod.

[Michael Ian Black]

I'd be happy to. I enjoy your conversation. I love what you're doing with the Beast. I think there's so much important work to be done, particularly to hold the individuals in this administration to account and to not sort of fall sway to that sense that, you know, they're going to run the table because good people get disengaged, throw up their hands and say, what the hell? Because that's where the real danger occurs. We need strong, independent journalism more than ever right now.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, we relish that challenge. That's. That's the point of it.

[Samantha Bee]

John, thank you so much.

[Joanna Coles]

Yes, thank you so much.

[Samantha Bee]

Conversation.

[Joanna Coles]

Have a wonderful anniversary with Margaret.

[Nell Scovell]

Thank you, guys.

[Michael Ian Black]

I appreciate you keep fighting the good fight.

[Samantha Bee]

I am so excited about our next interview, because if there is anyone on this earth who understands women in power, it is Nell Scovell. Nell is a writer. She's a director. Hi. She's a producer. She created Sabrina the Teenage Witch. She was a writer for the Simpsons, Late Night with David Letterman, even the Muppets in 2013. I mean, I'm talking to you right now. I'm looking at your face and reading your intro, and it's awesome. In 2013, you co wrote Lean in with Sheryl Sandberg. Do you know this about yourself? Which, I mean, open the whole conversation about gender equality in the workplace. I don't know you. Okay, let's just get into it. Should we just get into it? Let's get into it. I don't need to read your intro. Okay, now, what have the last few days been like in your world? I mean, just take me through it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I feel like people were given this choice between going to the opera or a freak show. And they were like, well, on one hand you have Mozart soaring arias, and on the other hand, we could go watch a geek bite off the head of a chicken. And that just seemed like more fun.

[Samantha Bee]

I feel like Mozart artist talking down to me with all these fancy notes and music that is soothing to my ears. Yuck. No, thanks.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Where's the bearded lady? She's funny.

[Samantha Bee]

So where. Okay, well, where were you? I mean, Joanna and I have talked about where we were when we were. Are you a person who watches election results? Like, did you have. Were you. Did you have different boxes on your television screen? Were you watching the whole thing and feeling your soul crumple, or were you doing something else?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I wasn't watching. I mean, I think we got that 2016 feeling pretty early on. And so I was the person who went to bed early, woke up, checked my news, and then thought, I will not be looking at the news for another four years.

[Samantha Bee]

Right, Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Don't say that, Nell. Don't say that, because we need you as a reader of the Beast.

[Samantha Bee]

We do. We do.

[Ryan Reynolds]

But look, it was a great day for rapists, and especially rapists who want to start a family because now one of their own is in the office and the vice president wants to pass laws where victims of rape are forced to carry to term. So, you know, it's not all bad for everyone.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think a woman will ever get elected to the presidency?

[Samantha Bee]

I think we'll all be long dead.

[Ryan Reynolds]

In your head, think of an image of a clown, right? It's a man. We don't even have a female clown visual in our heads. And, you know, when Trump dressed up like the garbage man, it was awkward, but we all laughed at it because he was being a clown. And that's something. You know, when women are awkward, it's just kind of sad.

[Samantha Bee]

What are all your very well connected friends saying to you behind closed doors? I can imagine. But I could be wrong.

[Ryan Reynolds]

My friends are sad. There's even ones who will do very well under a Trump administration. I think, you know, it's devastating and everyone's concerned about, you know, what this will mean. I mean, I think we're really in uncharted territory, right.

[Joanna Coles]

In terms of understanding the data, you have always made a very good point, which is that Kamala Harris got thrust into this position so she didn't have to look crazy ambitious to be running as a presidential candidate. And that was something that people felt good about. Talk to us about the difficulties of women running for office.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Two decades ago, they did a test at Columbia Business School. It was an experiment. There was a case study of a woman named Heidi, who was this very successful entrepreneur. And they gave the case study to the class. A half got it as written about Heidi, and the other half, they made one change, which is they changed Heidi's name to Howard. So the next class, the professors polled the students about their impressions of the entrepreneur. Both sides rated Heidi and Howard as equally competent, but Howard was much more appealing. They all wanted to work for Howard, where Heidi was seen as selfish and not the type of person you would want to work for. So the study has been reproduced and the takeaway is this, that success and likability are positively correlated for men and negatively correlated for women. So when a man is successful, he is liked by men and women. And when a woman is successful, people of both genders like her less.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, I do, having worked in this, I don't know, having lived in this world, I guess, for 55 years, do always reflect that America really seems to hate its mommy and need a daddy. And literally, like in the aftermath of the election, people are calling into the daily and saying, daddy's back. There's just a lot of like, daddy's back. And I'm like, this is, this is a really interesting psychological case study. Maybe we could all interrogate, you know.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Margaret Thatcher was called Attila the Hen and Nixon called Indira Gandhi. You know, the old witch. Angela Merkel was dubbed the Iron Frau. You know, we just don't like these women even when they have the power.

[Joanna Coles]

But Britain has now had three female prime ministers, and obviously it had a long reigning queen as the monarch. Is this just something that's impossible in America or was it just that the last two female candidates who've run weren't electable enough?

[Ryan Reynolds]

I just think there's a strong undercurrent of white supremacy that certainly undercut in this election. And it's just, it's just so hard to overcome. You know, there was this concept that there might be Republican women who would vote for Kamala secretly, you know, against their husband's wishes. And, you know, I just thought that was a terrible ad to suggest. And my feeling is that these women weren't voting for Trump for their husbands. They were voting for Trump for their son, for their children, to make sure to lock in whatever white privilege advantages there were for the next generation.

[Samantha Bee]

I was thinking about that ad, too, and I did like it. I actually think it's an important feature of democracy to let people know that their vote is secret, because I just think it's important to democracy writ large, and people don't know that it's actually private. So I think it's important for people to know that. But I do think it goes. You know, sometimes it can have the effect that you don't necessarily seek.

[Joanna Coles]

NELL to what extent and what extent do you think, Sam, that this is about the images of women shown in popular culture? So we grow up in a culture where we see firefighters, policemen rescuing everybody. We constantly see stories about white or black male leaders, but it's so hard to find any shows of successful women. I mean, I guess the nearest is HBO's Veep with Julia Louise Dreyfus playing Veep. She gets to be president. She sort of stumbles into it. Everything's a joke. It's hard to think of shows where women are taken seriously.

[Samantha Bee]

I mean, I don't know. I don't even know. This is such a huge question. I don't know. I just think misogyny is just so deeply, deeply rooted that it goes way beyond what we're seeing in popular culture. I just think it's. It's just in the. It's in people's bones in a way that is very hard to shake out. And, I mean, I don't know if you can even. I don't know if that question is answerable. It's a little bit. You know, the cultural products that we watch are just a. Are just kind of a derivative of what's in the. The meat of the bones, really. It's. It's so deep, it's so eternal. It's really daunting. It's really upsetting. It's really upsetting to witness. It's really upsetting to. For me to witness the fact that people couldn't think outside their lives a little bit to save the lives of women who are live in states where there is no access to health care for them. The direction that the country is going to go is going to get so Much worse for women. And it is amazing to me that an appeal to young men wouldn't take into consideration the fact that they are a participant in unwanted pregnancies or they are a participant in the formation of an undesired pregnancy. And voting against their own self interest. Voting against their own self interest is something that, that people are so good at in this country. And I actually can't even, I can't comprehend it. I'm not going to cry about it because what is the point of crying about it at this point? A mandate has been dropped and we can all see and so there is no crying. There is only carrying on. That's kind of British. You like that?

[Joanna Coles]

I'm rubbing off on you. I'm rubbing off on you.

[Samantha Bee]

You really are. I'm going like one foot in front of the other. I don't know, man. I don't know how this is gonna shake out.

[Ryan Reynolds]

By the way, has anyone done a home check on Gloria Steinem? I keep thinking about her and how long and hard she has fought to watch him get elected a second time.

[Joanna Coles]

Now, what are your well placed friends who are big donors or who knows the Democratic elite well saying about the campaign?

[Ryan Reynolds]

The big question everyone has is, was bringing David Plouffe in the right idea that he was from a different time from running this sort of classy campaign with the big rallies? You know, I think that's a big question. But there wasn't, you know, there wasn't a lot of time. And there'll be plenty of blame. Who do you guys blame? Let's each. Who's, who's your number one blame?

[Samantha Bee]

I actually don't. I think they, this is a personal feeling. I think they ran as good a campaign as they could run given the timeline. I blame. Well, okay, if we're going to go there, if we're going to go there, let's go there. Actually blame the Democratic Party in general for not being really honest about Joe Biden running for a second term a lot earlier. Because I know people who were present at interviews with Joe Biden a long time ago and they observed it is was observable to them that he would not be in condition to run for a second term. Okay. I mean we're talking like two years ago. All right? And if it is observable to the naked eye of a person who has is completely objective party in the room, then it was a known quantity that was not talked about or dealt with in a way that was intelligent and thoughtful and forward thinking and correct, literally correct for this country, they didn't do anything. They were not honest about it. He was not honest about it. He was extremely arrogant about it. And he did a lot of things that were good. I think. I think he did really a lot of things that were good. And I applaud him, and I applaud the people around him for doing things that were. That were correct. But this was a failure that was catastrophic. We could have had an open convention. We could have had all the things that everybody claims that they wanted so badly. We could have had that, and we could have had a longer time to. Actually, there was so much dissatisfaction with Joe Biden, and they were not honest about it, and they did not really look at it early enough. And so that is where I place the blame. I don't place the blame in Kamala's campaign. I think she did a great job. I think she was a great candidate, actually, and I think she would have been a great president. So that is my honest take.

[Joanna Coles]

He also ran on the point that he would be a one term president and then clearly changed his mind, as people do when they smell and experience power.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, we are all experiencing the aftermath of what that arrogance. What the. How that arrogance can metastasize and what the aftermath of that. We are all going to live with that for the next four years.

[Joanna Coles]

And there were definitely voices saying that. I mean, we had James Carville on the show two weeks ago. He talks about it in his documentary, it's called Winning Stupid, where he says they should have had an open convention. And where he was saying two years ago, joe Biden needs to step aside so that we can flesh this out in public.

[Samantha Bee]

It was not a conversation that you could have. It was not a conversation that was welcome. It was not. And that really swings back around to arrogance. Arrogance. Arrogance will be the death of us all. And he himself is arrogant.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Do you think he's sitting in the White House today thinking, I could have beaten him?

[Samantha Bee]

No, I think he knows that she lost. And I do think that he thinks that he would have won and he would not have won. I just sweat so much. I soaked my blazer even beginning to have that conversation.

[Joanna Coles]

Nel Scovell, you're a terrific contributor to the Beast, and I would like you to just tell people what the last line of your column is this week in case people haven't read it. You did say there was one condition on which Carmela would have won. What is it?

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, yeah, there are all these shoulda, coulda wouldas of, you know, should. There have been an open convention, should she have gone on Rogan? But to me, the one thing that she really should have done is something she could not have done, which is have a penis. And ideally it would have been a magnificent one, like Arnold Palmer's.

[Joanna Coles]

Nel Scovel, thank you very much.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much Nel.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Bye guys.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please like subscribe and share this episode with a friend.

[Samantha Bee]

And if you're doing that, why don't you share our email too? It is beastpodhedailybeast.com Shout out to fellow Canadian Kathy Miller. Hi Kathy. Hello. Who sent us our first email. Oh, always the Canadians. To let us know that she was not happy with Michael Wolf saying that he wasn't voting. Oh me too, Kathy, me too. We love hearing what you have to say and who you want to hear on the pod. So keep those emails coming.

[Joanna Coles]

We'll be back next Thursday, our regular day, with another episode of the Daily Beast podcast.

[Samantha Bee]

And as my muse and definitely not a fake, Melania once said, be best, be beast.

[Joanna Coles]

Sam of course, as always, the Daily Beast Pokemon Podcast is produced by Sara Demankoft, Svia Beren Reinstein, Jesse Cannon and Seamus Calder. Additional writing by Sascha Seinfeld and edited by Deanna Chapman and engineered by Cameron Shanken.

[Samantha Bee]

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[Samantha Bee]

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