Inside Trump’s Head
Podcast Title: Inside Trump’s Head
Episode: Trump Plotted Secret White House Teardown: Wolff
Hosts: Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Date: October 29, 2025
Episode Overview
In this episode, Michael Wolff—Trump biographer—and journalist Joanna Coles give listeners a candid, inside look into some of the most shocking behaviors and ideas inside the Trump White House. Using insider accounts and sharp analysis, they discuss Trump's plan to demolish the White House's East Wing to build a grand Trump-named ballroom, examine the dynamics of power and opportunism in the Trump circle, the myth (and manipulation) of the "third term" idea, Trump family profiteering, and a flurry of audience questions—touching on everything from secret White House bunkers to Michael Wolff’s legal clash with Melania Trump.
The conversation is lively and biting, often colored by memorable anecdotes and a humor-laced, world-weary tone.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Plot to Demolish the East Wing (01:54–11:32)
- Trump’s Secret Plan: Wolff recounts an insider story that Trump wanted to create a new “Trump Ballroom” at the White House, with plans to demolish the East Wing.
- Quote: “He said, ‘fuck, but can we do the demolition at night?’” — Michael Wolff [02:33]
- The idea: To secretly demolish the East Wing overnight, so “Washington would wake up and the East Wing would have evaporated.” — Joanna Coles [02:43 and 05:52]
- Quote: “He said, ‘fuck, but can we do the demolition at night?’” — Michael Wolff [02:33]
- Developer Mentality: This stealth demolition echoes classic New York real estate developer tactics—once torn down, rebuilding is a fait accompli, no turning back.
- Quote: “What you tear down, you cannot build back. So it’s a fait accompli.” — Michael Wolff [05:57]
- Symbolism and Vulgarity: The hosts decry the move as architectural and civic vandalism, arguing the planned ballroom is an act of personal vanity and against the White House’s symbolic value.
- White House is “not a palace … it’s a symbol,” says Joanna Coles [09:15]
- The Trump Ballroom: “It’s going to be out of proportion. It’s going to be a vulgarity—a carbuncle on the nose of an old friend...” — Michael Wolff [08:41]
- Compares to Penn Station’s controversial demolition.
- Family Business Angle: The conversation touches on the Trump family’s propensity to profit from such building projects. [27:52–28:49]
2. Trump’s “Third Term” and Bannon’s Behind-the-Scenes Manipulation (11:51–18:48)
- Third Term Rhetoric: Steve Bannon is floating the idea of Trump running for a third term, even suggesting (implausibly) that Republicans could just keep nominating him.
- Quote: “There’s no baloney like Bannon baloney.” — Michael Wolff [13:46]
- Bannon doesn’t speak with Trump and the idea is mostly media provocation, not real plotting. It's about influencing the conversation, not actual legal possibility.
- Media Gamesmanship: The best way to influence Trump is through the media, not personal conversations. Bannon puts things in the media so Trump hears and repeats them.
- Quote: “The best way to talk to Donald Trump is not in person. It’s through the media.” — Michael Wolff [15:53]
- Ridicule and Worry: While preposterous, such media initiatives have at times become reality with Trump, blurring the boundary between farce and fact.
- “...the minute it’s out in the media ... it takes on a life of its own. And suddenly you see a way where, God forbid, but this could be possible.” — Joanna Coles [17:17]
- Bannon’s Persona: Anecdotes about Bannon’s infatuation with Economist editor Zanny Minton Beddoes add comic relief and insight into D.C. personalities. [18:38–19:53]
3. Trump’s Isolation & Personality (20:38–26:36)
- Personal Loneliness: Trump appears “very lonely” traveling abroad without Melania. Discussion on why she isn’t with him, and Trump’s discomfort with travel.
- Trump’s Inner Life: Speculation about whether Trump ever dreams or experiences existential anxiety, especially in the wake of political violence such as Abe's assassination.
- Quote: “Trump is a kind of stick figure ... there is no suggestion ever ... of his fundamental humanity.” — Michael Wolff [23:43]
- Nightly Habits: Recounting bizarre details — demanding that staff not strip his bedsheets, insisting on locking his bedroom against Secret Service guidance, and obsessively watching multiple TVs.
4. The “Trump Family Grift” vs. Hunter Biden (27:05–36:37)
- Comparing Don Jr. and Hunter Biden: The hosts call out the double standard in media and political outrage, noting how Hunter Biden’s business with Ukraine gets relentless coverage, while Don Jr. (and Jared Kushner) profit from Trump’s presidency on an unprecedented scale—with far less public outcry.
- Quote: “This is a kind of monument—we have never, in all of the miscreant relatives of many presidents... seen a level of miscreantism like Don Jr. ... just monetizing his father’s presidency...” — Michael Wolff [33:20]
- The Democrats’ ineffectiveness at weaponizing the Trump family’s grift is sharply criticized.
5. Audience Q&A: Power Structure, Racism, and Legal Brawls (36:43–44:50)
- White House Dynamics: “Everybody hates everybody else in this White House. ... Everybody is dependent on the favor of Donald Trump. ... It’s zero sum.” — Michael Wolff [37:56–38:20]
- Handling of Racists: Stephen Miller, an “unreconstructed racist,” is tolerated because Trump favors him—loyalty to Trump supersedes personal convictions (or backgrounds) for insiders like Kash Patel or Usha Vance.
- On Self-Perception: “They cease to see themselves as brown people. They see themselves as Trump people.” — Michael Wolff [39:18]
- East Wing Bunker: Listeners ask about the bomb shelter under the East Wing (where Cheney/Bush went on 9/11). Wolff explains the White House is, beneath its facade, a fortified military installation. [40:03–40:57]
- Can the demolition be stopped? The answer is bleak: “Apparently not.” — Michael Wolff [41:17]
6. Michael Wolff v. Melania Trump Lawsuit (41:35–45:14)
- Wolff has sued Melania Trump under New York’s anti-SLAPP law after she threatened him with a $1B lawsuit over his reporting on her ties to Jeffrey Epstein.
- Quote: “Their response was to threaten to sue me for a billion dollars... But in a turning of the tables, I in fact went into court and sued her.” — Michael Wolff [42:19]
- GoFundMe issues: Wolff can’t get his campaign live (“under review”), possibly due to political sensitivities, and calls on listeners for help. [43:35–44:50]
7. Trump Suing the Media (47:03–50:41)
- Never Before: Wolff stresses that only Trump has personally filed lawsuits against major media (ABC, CBS, Wall Street Journal, NYT), receiving settlements that go to his “library fund,” controlled by him.
- Legal Mechanics: Explains the difference between presidents acting in public vs. private capacity for legal action, and connections among the lawyers in these cases.
8. Final Thoughts: China & More (49:33–51:28)
- China Trip Implications: Trump, after years of tariffs and threats, is apparently set to negotiate a walk-back with China, arguably accepting defeat after a “cold war” approach.
- “He is about to accept defeat.” — Michael Wolff [50:41]
- Trump will still spin it as “victory.”
- Listener Takeaways: Miscellaneous highlights include a nod to E. Jean Carroll’s legal case (“a perfect description of his hair, like Tippi Hedren’s in The Birds” — Joanna Coles [51:22]), audience shoutouts, podcast event news, and a tease of content on Ivanka Trump's curated public persona.
Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments
- "Fuck, but can we do the demolition at night?" — Trump quote relayed by Michael Wolff [02:33/04:50]
- On Bannon: “There’s no baloney like Bannon baloney.” — Michael Wolff [13:46]
- On White House offices: “The West Wing is like a kind of college admissions office.” — Michael Wolff [09:17]
- On Don Jr.: “A grift like no grift we have ever seen ... at a level, at just an extraordinary level.” — Michael Wolff [33:20]
- On staff infighting: “Everybody hates everybody else in this White House. ... It’s zero sum.” — Michael Wolff [37:56–38:20]
- On Melania lawsuit: “But in a turning of the tables, I in fact went into court and sued her.” — Michael Wolff [42:19]
- On the China trip: “In his cold war with China, he is about to accept defeat.” — Michael Wolff [50:41]
Important Timestamps
- 01:54 — Wolff recounts the ballroom demolition plot
- 05:52/10:24 — On making change “fait accompli” and family profiting
- 12:19 — Discussion of Trump’s “third term” & Bannon’s maneuvers
- 20:38 — On Trump’s personal loneliness and isolation
- 27:52 — Hunter Biden v. Don Jr./Trump family grift
- 36:43 — Q&A about White House racism and internal power
- 41:35 — Wolff’s lawsuit with Melania Trump
- 47:03 — On Trump personally suing news outlets
- 49:33 — China trip and negotiation implications
Tone & Style
The episode maintains a highly conversational, irreverent, and informed tone, blending sharp critique, inside gossip, and dark humor. Both hosts sprinkle the discussion with stories, personal observations, and a healthy dose of skepticism toward all things Trump.
For Those Who Haven’t Listened
- This episode is a must for anyone curious about Trump's second presidency, its parallels with his real estate career, and the opportunistic environment around him.
- The episode exposes how Trump, his circle, and even his family leverage power and publicity—while exploring why “the impossible” seems just one bold move away.
- Listeners will find a unique mix of breaking news, psychological speculation, and sly wit—plus an open Q&A tackling the most outrageous elements of Trumpland, all peppered with genuine behind-the-curtain insider knowledge.