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- [00:00]
Michael Wolff
Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go? I wish I would stop. Thank you so much.
- [00:06]
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- [00:29]
Michael Wolff
Monday Sidekick the AI agent that knows you and your business, thinks ahead and takes action. How's it anything seriously? Monday Sidekick AI you'll love to use.
- [00:40]
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- [01:19]
Michael Wolff
Trump, who has had enormous difficulties, principally escaping the Jeffrey Epstein story, was looking this trip and his appearances with the royal family and this white tie dinner that the King is throwing for him to overshadow his problems. The difficulty he has run into is that, is that last week the, the prime minister fired the ambassador to the UK Ambassador to Washington, Peter Mandelson. And he fired Peter Mandelson because it has been, it has come out that that Mandelson had a very, very, very close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. It began in the birthday book and then there was a leak of emails which Bloomberg, Bloomberg got. Trump went around saying to aides, you know, why couldn't they wait until after the trip? This is just going to, of Epstein and then Epstein, Epstein, Epstein.
- [02:31]
Tom Sykes
Michael Wolf, you are in London where everything is going on. But I wanted to kick off with some good news. I hope it's good news for our audience. Your support has meant the world to us. Your comments have meant the world to us. And we are pleased to report that what started as a, as a trial podcast with Michael and I talking inside Donald Trump's house head over the summer.
- [03:00]
Michael Wolff
Has and talking over each other often.
- [03:04]
Tom Sykes
Definitely interrupting each other has, has somewhat taken off. And we are now, we are now official inside Trump's head is now official. We're going to be coming to you on Tuesdays and Thursdays on YouTube. And Michael, this is rather exciting news.
- [03:20]
Michael Wolff
Well Here we are with each other for the duration.
- [03:25]
Tom Sykes
For eternity. For eternity. We've even been sent by YouTube a clapper board, which I'm going to. I'm going to do this, with which I think you only get if you reach a certain level of audience enthusiasm, which I'm very excited by. But what better day to announce this news than on the day when you are literally projected. The face of Michael Wolf is projected. I think it's 200ft tall. Is that possible? On one of the turrets of Windsor Castle in the remarkable guerrilla movie of Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump. On the side of Windsor Castle for Donald Trump's visit.
- [04:08]
Michael Wolff
I would have said that Donald Trump can't escape Jeffrey Epstein, but possibly he can't escape me either.
- [04:18]
Tom Sykes
Well, this is. And I gather you've been hearing from everybody. I mean, let's just decode what is. I think. I mean, it's out. Banksy. Banksy. It's an incredible piece of guerrilla marketing. What a genius thing to do. Yeah.
- [04:34]
Michael Wolff
Do we know how they get it? How they got it up there?
- [04:38]
Tom Sykes
Well, I think it was just projected, Right? It was just a projection. So you can do it from many yards or feet away. I remember we actually projected fashion images on the side of the Empire State Building. First time it had ever been done.
- [04:52]
Michael Wolff
I assume they don't have permission to do that. Or maybe they do have permission. May. Maybe Charles said, yeah, let go for it.
- [05:01]
Tom Sykes
I don't think Charles would have said it, but William might. Yes, I think we definitely know that Prince Andrew wouldn't have done well.
- [05:09]
Michael Wolff
And what we definitely know, if they had done it in Washington, people would have rushed in to take it down and to stop it. And this seems to me to go on.
- [05:20]
Tom Sykes
Well, no, I think. I think. I think the four people that did it have been arrested and charged, actually. But what you can't do is stop the images online. So for however long it was up there, I think it was an hour, the images have gone everywhere and are indelible.
- [05:41]
Michael Wolff
As apparently, am I.
- [05:42]
Tom Sykes
As you are, indeed. And I wanted to give a shout out to Tom Sykes, actually, who was all over this story very early. And our team in London with, led by Nico Hynes and Dan Ladden hall, who've been doing an incredible job monitoring and every single move that Trump has made. But please, Michael, from the moment Air Force One touched down, talk us through this historic visit.
- [06:05]
Michael Wolff
The visit is meant to echo a visit. God, how long ago was that now? Almost eight years ago when he came, when Trump came and met with the clean. One of the things that he often said was a high point of his presidency. And Trump has this thing about the royal family, which is kind of hard to decipher. It's kind of a postcard fantasy about the royal family, or perhaps it's a larger fantasy in which he becomes a character. So King Charles, and he made a mistake yesterday and referred to him as Prince Charles, perhaps because King is the fantasy he reserves for himself, but it's very on both sides. So the Brits are looking forward to this, or the labor government. And the Prime Minister, Keir Starmer is looking forward to this because he's had a terrible, terrible week, actually. Several weeks, several months, you could say. And so he's looking to this visit for good news, hoping for a trade agreement that, that, that will be able to, to overshadow all kinds of difficulties that he's had. Likewise, Trump, who has had enormous difficulties, principally escaping the Jeffrey Epstein story, was looking for this trip and his appearances with the Royal family and this white tie dinner that the King is throwing for him to overshadow his problems. Now, the difficulty he has run into is that, is that last week the, the Prime Minister fired the ambassador to the UK Ambassador to Washington, Peter Mandelson. And he fired Peter Mandelson because it has been, it has come out that, that Mandelson had a very, very, very close relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. I should point out, not as close as Donald Trump's relationship with Jeffrey Epstein, but nevertheless a close relationship with an email trail documenting this, their, their friendship.
- [08:45]
Tom Sykes
And it came to light in the birthday book. Right?
- [08:48]
Michael Wolff
It began in the birthday book and then there was a leak of emails which Bloomberg got. And no one seems to know quite how they got this, this leak of emails, but there was Mandelson talking to Epstein and basically saying, you know, I support you and you're going to get through this. And notably, if this had happened in the uk, no one would have ever, ever thought anything of it. You would have just gotten, it wouldn't have been an issue in the uk so, so Peter Mandelson got hoisted on that and he was fired, plunging Donald Trump into something of a rage with, with Keir Starmer, the uk, The UK Prime Minister, Ben. Because Trump went around saying to aides, you know, why couldn't they wait until after the trip? This is just going to remind people of Epstein and then Epstein, Epstein, Epstein, he repeats. Well, Trump is famous for this, for his repetitions, but whenever Epstein comes up, he seems to repeat it three times.
- [10:03]
Tom Sykes
As if it's Some kind of food.
- [10:05]
Michael Wolff
Yes, it's his mantra. Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. And it's haunting him. And so. And so here he is in the uk, Mandelson has just been fired and it's the big story in the uk. And of course there's a further backdrop to this, which is Prince Andrew was brought down by Jeffrey Epstein. Ghislaine Maxwell, who's a Brit, was imprisoned because of Jeffrey Epstein. And here, Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein's again. And I think we have to continue to repeat this. Jeffrey Epstein's closest friend in life, Donald Trump is.
- [10:51]
Tom Sykes
So I just want to get this straight and I want to remind people that when Peter Mandelson turned up in D.C. as the British ambassador, he had actually been critical of Donald Trump, something which Chris La Civita, Donald Trump's co campaign manager, pointed out. And in fact, he X'd out tweeted out saying Peter Mandelson is an absolute moron. And it looked as if this relationship might not go very smoothly. But in fact, Mandelson, because he is known as the Minister of the Dark Arts, managed to smooth it over very quickly. There was a video of him with Trump. He was standing behind Trump. He then said very flattering things about Donald Trump. And this visit was supposed to be something that he would be in charge of all the logistics. It was a huge triumph for Britain. And now you're saying that Donald Trump is furious with Keir Starmer for not delaying his.
- [11:49]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, and it's been. Peter Mandelson has been quite successful as the UK Ambassador, that to the extent that it is possible, when, let's acknowledge this is a bad situation for every country but the uk, you can argue, has probably made the best of this. And the strategy here to, to abjectly flatter Donald Trump. You'll. You'll remember the. The Prime Minister came, met with Trump, brandished a letter from the King and.
- [12:27]
Tom Sykes
Which I think he wasn't expecting Donald Trump to read, but in fact he unfurled it almost like a sort of speaker of old and read it with just enormous glee and joy.
- [12:38]
Michael Wolff
No, And a brilliant move architected by. By Peter Mandelson. So it's a kind of. I mean, it's an irony that the guy did a great job, but, you know, except for this one small issue. Jeffrey Epstein.
- [12:56]
Tom Sykes
Well, and amazing, the way it came to light, the birthday book comes out. Everybody is focused on the Donald Trump letter. Is it there? Is it not there? Did he do a drawing? Is there a poem? What's the wonderful secret? And then as people spend time with the book, they discover, I think four pages from Peter Mandelson, including a picture of what looks like a prepubescent girl with her face redacted. And then literally an unambiguous line from Peter Mandelson, you know, from your best pal Peter.
- [13:30]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, and that is, and I know this, and I know from conversations with Epstein that they were genuinely good friends for a long period of time. This was. And essentially what Mandelson is getting hoisted on is being one of the few people who didn't flee from Epstein after his legal problems began. I mean, he stayed in there.
- [14:00]
Tom Sykes
Well, it's cost Peter Mandelson his job.
- [14:01]
Michael Wolff
And so, but let me. It's a thing that I was at a dinner last night and people were furious at the dinner, this is dinner in London. That the story, the Peter Mandelson story has not gotten more attention in the US which they regard somewhat as a slight to.
- [14:22]
Tom Sykes
A slight to Britain that nobody cares in the world.
- [14:25]
Michael Wolff
And it hasn't gotten much, much attention. And this is over here. I would say that it's one of the preoccupations. Is, is the UK still important to the US Is it genuinely important to Donald Trump? Does Donald Trump really care about the UK and does he want, is he going to give the UK something, a meaningful trade agreement or is this really just to have just a long several days of a photo op?
- [15:02]
Tom Sykes
Let me ask you something. Do we think that Donald Trump knows about the movie that was projected against Windsor Castle?
- [15:10]
Michael Wolff
We, we don't know. I mean, I, I mean he, I'm trying to. Let me just go through this in my head because obviously, obviously the aides around him would now know about, about this.
- [15:24]
Tom Sykes
Well, I'm sure it's been every news broadcast.
- [15:28]
Michael Wolff
Exactly. So. But, but it's probably not leading every news broadcast in the US I don't know. Is it? You would know that.
- [15:36]
Tom Sykes
Well, when I was what I have four different news and at one point I think three out of the four showing it at the same time. It's, it's a surreal issue.
- [15:49]
Michael Wolff
You have four different. So you're, you're like Donald Trump.
- [15:52]
Tom Sykes
Well, it's known as multi view. It's very straightforward. It's an advantage of YouTube TV, but it's multi view. So I can watch four different things at the same time.
- [16:03]
Michael Wolff
Is it on the same screen on the same tv? Oh yeah. Donald Trump has four different screens. So he's.
- [16:08]
Tom Sykes
Yeah, I'm sure, well, I'm sure he's.
- [16:09]
Michael Wolff
Not caught up to that technology.
- [16:11]
Tom Sykes
He's probably got, he's probably got four on each of his four screens, giving him 16 news channels. I only have four. But it's certainly been part of the dialogue here. Though of course we've had bigger stories going on with the death of Charlie Kirk. So Peter Mandelson hasn't gotten much attention here at all.
- [16:30]
Michael Wolff
And he will and he is, I mean, I think that this is all part of his general, the background to his unhappiness. He should be happy. He is not happy. No, that's a, that's par for the course with Donald Trump. He is always at some level of disgruntlement and coming here, trying to get away from Epstein and here, Epstein, Epstein, Epstein is yet following him.
- [16:59]
Tom Sykes
Well, and of course there's the Prince Andrew of it all. And there was a massive, enormous sort of tarpaulin with a picture of Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein with their arms around each other, which had been rolled out on a public lawn outside of Windsor Castle, which has also got a ton of attention and obviously photographed by drones which also went everywhere.
- [17:23]
Michael Wolff
But there's another aspect of this that we should also point out which is that there was a very substantial, I mean a really substantial right wing demonstration in the streets of London. I mean, led by a figure, in fact, a kind of Charlie Kirkish Kirk like figure of, in, in the UK guy by the name of Tommy Robinson, which is a very, you know, you know, has become the, the young right wing exponent. And, and, and the, the, I mean the demonstration was, was, was huge in the, in the London streets. And Trump, were he of the mind to regard this. I think he could look at this, that his movement, the MAGA movement led by him is having a significant impact over here.
- [18:30]
Tom Sykes
Well, maybe he'll move on from Greenland and he'll turn his eyes to Europe and taking over Britain. I mean, I think that would play into Putin's playbook. Right?
- [18:40]
Michael Wolff
It would actually suit me because it would be nice to be able to have a seamless.
- [18:48]
Tom Sykes
Well, you may end up having to stay, you may end up having to stay over there. So let's just, I mean, I was very struck when he came down the steps of Air Force One at how tightly he seemed to be holding Melania's hand. We haven't seen them together, as you're frequently pointing out, for some time, although she suddenly cross at the AI event that they had at the White House with all the tech leaders where she was talking about the dangers of AI and then we saw her at the 911 memorial at the Pentagon. But we haven't seen them holding hands for a bit. In fact, normally she flicks her hands his hand.
- [19:28]
Michael Wolff
That's why he holds it tightly. If he doesn't hold it tightly, she'll pull it away.
- [19:35]
Tom Sykes
She'll pull it away. And he looked as if he was half holding on for her for support getting down the stairs, which must be very stressful when you've got all those cameras on you, you know, at least.
- [19:45]
Michael Wolff
These stairs are very steep.
- [19:48]
Tom Sykes
Yeah. I always feel sorry for the presidents running up and trying to come down them because I mean, I don't know.
- [19:53]
Michael Wolff
Why they haven't solved that. They could have get a kind of a circular staircase and well, they did.
- [19:59]
Tom Sykes
Solve it for Joe Biden. Right. Which is they put it in the middle of the aircraft and they gave him shallower stairs. But you think these things are slippy. I'm sure I would fall both up and down them. So I have some sympathy.
- [20:12]
Michael Wolff
And it's been very windy in London so he could be. Well, it would have to be a big win to.
- [20:18]
Tom Sykes
Big win to me.
- [20:19]
Michael Wolff
Sweep him away.
- [20:21]
Tom Sykes
We're just going to take some ads.
- [20:25]
Michael Wolff
Did I talk too much? Can I just let it go?
- [20:30]
Advertisement Voice
Take a breath. You're not alone. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals. Get matched with a therapist online based on your unique needs and get help with everyday struggles like anxiety or managing tough emotions emotions. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10 off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better.
- [20:53]
Michael Wolff
AI had the time of my life. Hey, I never felt this way before.
- [21:03]
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- [21:15]
Michael Wolff
And I owe it all to you.
- [21:19]
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- [21:57]
Michael Wolff
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- [22:57]
Tom Sykes
And we're back with what else? Donald Trump's trip to the uk Right? So he's held onto Melania, he's got to the bottom of the step, met by the protocol officer, and he's helicoptered off to Winfield House where he's with the ambassador. What's happened since then?
- [23:15]
Michael Wolff
Tonight there is this white tie dinner. I mean, I've actually never heard of a white tie dinner, but apparently that's.
- [23:22]
Tom Sykes
So they're even smarter than black tie dinner.
- [23:24]
Michael Wolff
It's a royal thing and it's the kind of height of the pomp of this and a very significant formal event. It's what a state visitor gets. And one of the sidelights, the interesting things about that is that apparently this will be attended by Rupert Murdoch. Now, this is kind of weird because Donald Trump is in the process of suing the Wall Street Journal, which Rupert Murdoch owns for $10 billion.
- [24:10]
Tom Sykes
And this is over the revelation of the Epstein letter in the birthday book, right?
- [24:15]
Michael Wolff
So there's two interesting things about that. There was the Wall Street Journal said the Wall Street Journal first published this letter. Donald Trump said it was a hoax. But subsequent to that, the entire birthday book, all of the letters that, that were written to Jeffrey Epstein on the occasion of his 50th birthday in 2003. All of this organized, collated by Ghislaine Maxwell, this entire book was released. And Shuri Shootin, there was the letter from Donald Trump, the theoretically hoax letter from Donald Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. Now, everybody, nobody else in this of the many, many, many, many people who wrote Jeffrey Epstein letters, family, friends, Leon.
- [25:13]
Tom Sykes
Black, Alan Dershowitz, they're all there, random.
- [25:17]
Michael Wolff
Celebrities no else has, has denied the authenticity of these letters. The only one who has denied the authenticity is Donald Trump.
- [25:26]
Tom Sykes
So, and indeed, Peter Mandelson has been fired because of the authenticity of his letter.
- [25:32]
Michael Wolff
Right. And he didn't say that's not me. So any. And so we can assume that actually it's a genuine, a genuine letter from Donald Trump. But, but he certainly has not said, okay, you got me, and withdrawn his suit. Rather, he is, he is not only aggressively pursuing his lawsuit, but then he sued the New York, he announced he was going to sue the New York Times for also citing this letter. Now, possibly because someone near Trump said this is, you know, you're, I mean, you're, you're kind of, you're on, you're on sort of sinking sands here. And he did not sue them because of this letter. Instead, he turned around yesterday and sued them for some other articles that he didn't like for 15 billion, I believe.
- [26:31]
Tom Sykes
15 billion. And for years, he argues for years of articles that were just written against him.
- [26:38]
Michael Wolff
Right. So in other words, in other words, bias against him against the backdrop of, of after Charlie Kirk's death. Death, saying that he is going after free speech. He doesn't call free. He is going after leftist speech. That is, that's, that's what he wants to curtail. That's what he wants to regulate.
- [27:05]
Tom Sykes
Now, hold on, hold on. Can we just go back to the specter of this incredibly formal dinner where he will be dressed up in white tie. I'm sure we'll get details of whatever the first lady is we. But he will be sitting near Rupert Murdoch. He will be eating at the same table as Rupert.
- [27:23]
Michael Wolff
Well, so, yes, so I understand that he asked for Rupert Murdoch to be invited and within. And what Trump intimates have told me is because he believes that he can pressure the old man, man into a settlement. Rupert Murdoch was 94 years old. So if he can pressure him into a settlement. And then a person near Trump said to me that it would be, it could be an easy 10 million. So there is this, this, this kind, this kind of thing that he's, he's now attacking free speech, you know, as a, you know, I certainly in this instance as, as a way to collect some money for himself as a sort of shakedown. Which. Yes. Which he did for in his suit against ABC, they settled for $15 million. A suit against CBS, they settled for $16 million. All which goes not to the United States treasury, but to Donald Trump. And the, the lever here that he has against the, none of these suits would prevail in any court. They are specious, ridiculous. You can't even be take them seriously at any legal level. But he controls the United States government. So the United States government. So it's not just a lawsuit. It's just not just what happens in court. It's what these companies face in terms of interference by the United States government. So it's enormous leverage that he has over anyone that he sues on the and again, who he is suing on a personal basis. And just let me add this again because it really is, it should not be overlooked. Never before in the modern age has a president of the United States sued a media company, actually. And it may be that never before in the modern age has a president sued anyone on a personal basis.
- [29:42]
Tom Sykes
Well, and it's also worth reminding people that the head of the doj, Pam Bondi, was his personal lawyer and Todd Blanche, the number two at the doj, was his personal lawyer. And of course, the minute the Wall Street Journal released or the minute the Wall Street Journal ran the piece about Trump's birthday letter to Jeffrey Epstein, which you have always maintained was released by the max as a shot across the bow to say, hey, Ghislaine is sitting in a unpleasant jail in Florida. Todd Blanche is on a plane five days after the release of the letter to interview her and he takes two days interviewing her. And lo and behold, the following week, she's literally moved to a low security jail in Texas where she has a sister living not in the jail in Texas.
- [30:37]
Michael Wolff
And just to just to add, cause I think we should keep track of this, all of these legal, Trump legal issues, personal illegal issues are coordinated by a man by the name of Boris Epstein, who has been his consigliere throughout the campaign, in times actually before the campaign, the campaign began, who still has essentially that client of one relationship with Trump. And he did not chose specifically not to come into the White House, but nevertheless coordinates all of Trump's personal legal strategies outside of the White House.
- [31:23]
Tom Sykes
Well, it's going to be an absolutely riveting dinner tonight. So we've got Donald Trump possibly sidling up to Rupert Murdoch to say, hey, can we get something done? Do you think that Rupert Murdoch is, I mean, you've written four books on Donald Trump and you've written two books on Rupert Murdoch. So do we think that Rupert Murdoch is likely to settle? I know he's 94, but Rupert's mother lived till I think she was 102. Do you.
- [31:49]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, but, but even that people say that. And I just, you know, as as, as though this is a long, long lease on life. He's 94, coming on 95 even on the outside. On the outside. It's time is running out. Here he is, as Donald Trump calls him, that old man. He is an old man.
- [32:13]
Tom Sykes
Well, and there was, there was a normal man, almost comic moment when the Trump camp insisted that Rupert Murdoch be deposed quickly. They wanted him deposed within two weeks because Trump said he might die. He might die. So sort of remarkable maneuvering on both sides. But do you think that Rupert Murdoch is likely to settle?
- [32:35]
Michael Wolff
I don't know. I think it's possible, though. I mean, I think, I mean, I would never have said that the Rupert Murdoch of yore was, would never have settled. The Rupert Murdoch who ran one of the largest media companies in the world and one of the most aggressive media companies in the world certainly would never have settled. But as it happens, he just settled a very contentious lawsuit with his family. I am, and I think if you had to analyze this moment, as is he wrapping up things, settling things, getting, getting his affairs in order, this might be the moment to strike. And Donald Trump has a very strong animal instinct for someone's weaknesses.
- [33:24]
Tom Sykes
But the Wall Street Journal op ed page has been extremely aggressive. I mean, this week has been very robust against the Trump tariffs. It's really taken a very strong normy Republican line against Donald Trump. It's really come out swinging against him.
- [33:43]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, no, well, I, I, I don't, I don't know. I mean, that's it, it, it has. And you would think, and Donald Trump is, I mean, Rupert Murdoch, as I've written a thousand times, this can't stand Donald Trump. But Rupert Murdoch has always had this instinct for power. He knows where the wind blows. And so that really is like two.
- [34:07]
Tom Sykes
Elephants circling each other all around the very fine china of Windsor Castle, all dressed in their lovely white tuxedos. I do love a white.
- [34:16]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. No, and, and it's, and it's, you know, I mean, I think, I think we should keep our eye very closely on this space because it is again, you know, Donald Trump is winning.
- [34:34]
Tom Sykes
Donald Trump is winning. Is he winning? I mean, I feel like the Epstein stuff has overshadowed.
- [34:39]
Michael Wolff
Well, it doesn't, I didn't say he has won, but certainly in his war against the media, he is winning. And I would look at, I would also keep my eye on, I mean, the editor of the Wall Street Journal was a, who is a Brit and a friend of yours. Yep. Emma Tucker. I would keep my eye on that space. You know, is, is Someone going to have to pay for this, for this, for the Trump non. Hoax. Hoax letter.
- [35:13]
Tom Sykes
So, so let me take you back to the also the incredible pageantry that the UK has put on our Royal Royalist Tom Sykes wrote an excellent piece in the Beast today which I would urge everybody to read about how Britain has basically prostated itself for Donald Trump and we know he loves a parade and the Brits are incredibly good at putting on wonderful, wonderful parades, beautiful shining military parades that don't seem threatening but seem glorious. And of, you know, hark back to years of yore, I saw that Donald Trump was enjoying the full panoply of British pageantry. Do you think it will give him ideas?
- [36:01]
Michael Wolff
Well, I think the more immediate question is do the Brits get something out of this? Do they get their trade agreement? Do they get their. Does Keir Starmer come away with, with powerful headlines? I mean there was a headline headline today. All of the papers led with, with a big tech investments. I mean which is really not very much of anything. But, but, but they, they, they pumped it up and the Brits are spinning.
- [36:34]
Tom Sykes
It as a, as a sort of industry. It's a business deal.
- [36:39]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. And, and I think that's what they want. That's a, Keir Starmer wants to come out and say this is what I've got and I bow down to Donald Trump. I' sucked and I've gotten something for it. You know, the problem with that, with, with, with, with Trump is that, you know, he, he gives and he takes and he gives and then he forgets that he's giving you something and, and, and it has no, no consistency, no staying power. And he promises this tariff today and then it's that tariff tomorrow. So I, I think it's a, it's a, I mean I, I, I'd say that they are playing a game game here that the labor government is playing a, a game that they're in the end not going to get much of a return on.
- [37:28]
Tom Sykes
Well, it's also worth pointing out that Keir Starmer needed a visit like this to be successful for him because he'd also as well as Peter Mandelson lost his Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rainer, which has been a huge domestic blow for him. So both of them looking to get something out of this being compromised by the Epstein story, both with Peter Mandelson and Prince Andrew.
- [37:52]
Michael Wolff
And then you have Nigel Farage in the background of this who is certainly campaigning to be the next Prime Minister. The Nigel Farage, the leader of the.
- [38:08]
Tom Sykes
Very right wing Reform Party.
- [38:10]
Michael Wolff
Right has started a new party. It is the party that is. It is. Now all eyes are on the Reform Party, and Nigel Farage has been consistently a supporter, a friend, a player in Trump's own political rise. As a matter of fact, eight years ago on that visit, when Trump came to the uk, I I was here with Steve Bannon and there was a lunch, a liquid lunch drip Nigel Farage, of which I was president.
- [38:53]
Tom Sykes
And we're going to take a quick break.
- [38:57]
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- [39:25]
Michael Wolff
Did I talk too much? Just let it go.
- [39:31]
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- [39:54]
Michael Wolff
A I had the time of my life Life. Hey, I never felt this way before.
- [40:04]
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Michael Wolff
And I owe it all to you.
- [40:19]
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- [40:25]
Tom Sykes
I hope they don't think I was.
- [40:26]
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I need to be awake asleep already.
- [40:36]
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- [41:27]
Tom Sykes
And Michael Wolf and I are back talking about Donald Trump's trip to the uk Michael, you're going to have your own state visit at this rate. I mean, we said. Hugh Docherty pointed out on the podcast earlier this week that this is actually a very unusual second state visit. Most heads of state only get one visit with royalty. But because Donald Trump saw the Queen last time, he was over, and of course the Queen died and there's a new monarch, King Charles is now in the position to offer him a second visit because it's about the visit to the monarch, not the visit to the country, is it?
- [42:03]
Michael Wolff
And it was, and it as, and also this became a strategically useful, the, the, the presentation of the letter. In desperation. Every, literally every country is desperate about its relationship with the, with the U.S. because I mean, these tariffs are real draconian and damaging. And, and so it's, it's for everyone is how can we minimize, let's do anything possible to minimize the damage here. And so that's the hope they can trot out Prince Charles. And Prince Charles, now I'm still.
- [42:44]
Tom Sykes
Well, he had 70 years, he had 70 years as an apprentice for that job. So it's, it's no surprise we get his title wrong.
- [42:53]
Michael Wolff
I mean, it will be curious, actually, that conversation will also be very curious.
- [42:58]
Tom Sykes
Well, do you think this has been good for the King and the royal family, this visit?
- [43:05]
Michael Wolff
You know, I mean, I think, I think it will be a question of what they come away with here, what they can claim and does it stick? Does it have holding power? Or is this, this just the day job? Are they just victims of more Trump baloney?
- [43:21]
Tom Sykes
Well, Michael, we expect you to report back on the dinner and whether or not Donald Trump and Rupert Murdoch, two old white men, get into fisticuffs over many plates, many glasses, many forks. And I mean, I can just imagine the place settings or the tabletop as Americans calling it, with all the different knives and forks and the napkins and the finger bowls. I mean, it is a glorious thing, a white tie dinner at Windsor Castle. I'm talking as if I've been to one. I haven't, but I have been to Buckingham Palace a few times. And the royal family are extremely good at doing, at entertaining. I mean, they really are. So I hope Donald Trump and Melania have fun. I hope that Melania gets to sit next to Camilla, who seems to have recovered from her unfortunate bout of sinusitis. And I did want to suggest that when you talk to Trump's people, they ask the royal family, donald Trump should learn to shake hands. Because I noticed as he came down the stairs. He has a very firm grip. He really does. As we know, he does that whole pulling back and forth with the hand, which may or may not be leading to the bruising on both hands. So maybe he's doing some left handed grips too. But the Royal family actually have very specific protocol that you put your hand out as a subject of the Royal Family, you put your hand out and they very gently squeeze. So you're not supposed to do the vigorous shake.
- [44:49]
Michael Wolff
Again, let me rush in to say this is already a long explanation. Donald Trump does not do even short explanations. So this is going nowhere.
- [45:01]
Tom Sykes
Well, then we're going to see more of his bruises. I'm very curious. If you shake his hand, do you get makeup on your hand?
- [45:08]
Michael Wolff
Well, I have shaken his hand and. No, but it's actually.
- [45:14]
Tom Sykes
But didn't you shake his hand before he had makeup to cover the bruises?
- [45:17]
Michael Wolff
Yes, I have not shaken his hand recently, but I do remember shaking his hand that I do remember the feeling that it's a plump hand.
- [45:29]
Tom Sykes
It's a plump hand. Well, Michael, we'll see what hand the British come away with after this spectacular state visit. We'll be talking to Tom Sykes tomorrow for the royal perspective on this and whether or not Prince Andrew has managed to stay out of the way or as he did at the Duchess of Ken, he pops up and manages to zelig like, appear in all the photographs in which Prince William looks absolutely livid that he's there because he's obviously very conscious that his job is to take the royal family on into the next generation. And having the specter of Prince Andrew and of course his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein is not best helpful.
- [46:12]
Michael Wolff
You may not have been to Buckingham palace, but I have been.
- [46:17]
Tom Sykes
I have been to Buckingham Palace. I just haven't been to Windsor Castle.
- [46:19]
Michael Wolff
Oh, you. Oh, okay. Well, I, on the other hand, have been on the face of windsor Castle, apparently 200ft tall.
- [46:29]
Tom Sykes
Someone's telling me, which I can't believe. I want to show you the clapperboard that YouTube has sent us. It's very exciting. I'm going to bang it twice to remind people that we are now going to be a permanent addition to your feed in YouTube, Apple, Spotify, wherever you get your. Please leave us a comment on YouTube. Join and Become a member of the Daily Beast community. Subscribe to the podcast wherever you get your podcasts and feel free to share it with a friend. Share it with a friend, share it with a colleague. Share it with someone that you haven't talked to in your family. For a long time and you need something to talk to them about. You can argue about whether or not Michael Wolff is right and Rupert Murdoch may be in the mood for settling. Although I sort of think if Rupert Murdoch were going to go down, if he sorting out his business affairs, this might be one one denouement that he's not prepared to close.
- [47:26]
Michael Wolff
Well, let's see.
- [47:29]
Tom Sykes
Michael, have fun in London. We'll be back later this week and as our first lady would have us say, be beast. And thank you to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erson and our editor, Jesse Millwood.
- [47:47]
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- [48:21]
Tom Sykes
I hope they don't think I was.
- [48:25]
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Sleep already.
- [48:32]
Better Sleep App Narrator
When your racing thoughts keep you up at night, it's tough to learn. Let go and get the rest you need. Better sleep can help. You might have heard of white or brown noise. There's a whole rainbow of color noises and they can help you calm your mind, reduce stress and sleep better. Like the green noise you're listening to now. With the Better Sleep app you can discover more color noises and over 200 soothing sounds, guided meditations and bedtime stories. High quality rest is vital to your mental well being and physical health. Calm your restless mind, conquer your day and sleep better at night. Download Better Sleep from the App Store or Google Play and start a seven day trial today. Because when you sleep better, you feel better.
- [49:22]
Michael Wolff
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