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- [00:01]
Michael
John Stamos here in partnership with Cologuard. And I've got to say, so you're 45 or older and at average risk.
- [00:07]
Joanna
So what?
- [00:08]
Michael
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- [01:18]
Joanna
because of the Epstein files.
- [01:19]
Michael
It's I lost because the American electoral system is corrupt.
- [01:28]
Joanna
Michael. Joanna, I have no idea what's going on. And then it turns out neither does anybody else, least of all. At least of all where we're going.
- [01:39]
Michael
He has no idea. I mean, truly, he's stuck in a situation that he can't get out of. What does he do? What does he do? He doesn't know. He doesn't have an idea.
- [01:57]
Joanna
And also, there was an amazing bit that I felt we hadn't quite focused on enough when he obviously went through the weekend telling people he was gonna bomb Iran. Now he's not gonna bomb Iran. Now they're in negotiations. The Iranians come out and say, no, we're not in negotiations. And then he says, oh, we're going to be in negotiations this week. And someone says to him, well, how is that gonna be? And he goes, well, I don't know. I mean, I guess we're going to talk them on the phone because they can't get out. Well, if we were in negotiations, he would know how we were talking to them. There's A piece in the Journal this morning saying no one knows. All the Arab states are getting together, as they always do in a war. You know, people do in a war. Everybody's back channeling, but no one knows who to negotiate with in Iran. Who is the person?
- [02:46]
Michael
And then in the middle of this, you have back again our favorites.
- [02:50]
Joanna
Oh, yes.
- [02:51]
Michael
Witkoff and Kushner, who are really in. This all comes down to Witkoff and Kushner. We're in this war, no doubt, because of Witkoff and Kushner. We gonna get out of this war if we're ever gonna get out of this, because Whitner, Witkoff, and Kushner are.
- [03:08]
Joanna
I like the idea of Whitner. It's like a band. They part of their gonna make a deal.
- [03:13]
Michael
Yes.
- [03:14]
Joanna
Oh, Kushkov. Khrushchkov would be better than Whitner. Jesus. Jesus. It's a problem. But I tell you what's not a problem. I loved. And we'll come back to this, obviously, because we've got a lot to discuss. We're going to be talking Trump, Iran, Trump elections, and incredibly, Trump and Elvis. It's insanity. Is there an off ramp? Is there an on ramp? Are we on the on ramp? Nobody knows anything. But what I did love this week, and I want to give it a shout out, is your substack, which is the beginning of your series on your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. And there was a fantastic bit about how you meet him first, because you're given a lift on his plane to a TED conference in Vancouver, and there's just a Monterey. Oh, Monterey, Okay. It used to be in Vancouver, didn't it?
- [04:03]
Michael
No, it was always in Monterey.
- [04:06]
Joanna
Seriously, I thought the TED Conference was in Vancouver.
- [04:09]
Michael
No, always the original TED Conference. You know, the TED Conference is really broken into two. There was the original conference and then it was sold, and then it became a kind of, you know, whatever, an event for outsiders rather than an event for insiders, which it was before, and that was always in Monterey once a year.
- [04:34]
Joanna
Okay, well, for people who haven't signed up for Sabstack, this definitely is worth signing up for, because you're going to tell the story of your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein. You begin by the fact that you meet him because you're given a ride on his plane by someone organizing a group of New Yorkers going to the TED Conference, and on the plane are various other players. And then what I loved is the description of the plane, because it's a jet, it's not a reg. It's not just Your regular Gulf stream. It's a proper jet. And you say 757.
- [05:04]
Michael
So it is a.
- [05:05]
Joanna
It's a huge plane.
- [05:06]
Michael
Big plane.
- [05:07]
Joanna
Yeah, It's a proper plane.
- [05:08]
Michael
No. And we come out because we're kind of let out and there's all the corporate jets over there, and that's what we head. And then we're redirected to this plane, which is, on top of everything else, black.
- [05:20]
Joanna
Right. So it's a black plane. A big black plane, and everybody's sitting there. And I have almost been in situations like this, though not quite to that extent, because I've usually known whose plane it was. But that thing of like, what are we all doing here? Whose plane is it? And then. And you have always made the point that part of Jeffrey's success was having this incredible plane that people loved and he would give people rides and that was the bait to get people into his world. But everybody's sitting on the plane saying, whose plane is this? And then Geraldine Laban, who at the time is the head of Oxygen, the Oxygen network. I don't know if anybody remembers that now, but it was a women's network, wasn't it?
- [06:04]
Michael
Yeah. I can't remember if she had already taken over, but she was famous for Nickelodeon.
- [06:10]
Joanna
Oh, okay, Nickelodeon.
- [06:11]
Michael
She created the great children's programming empire.
- [06:15]
Joanna
Well, she's on the plane and she turns to you at one point during the journey and says, this appears to be the embodiment of.
- [06:22]
Michael
She goes, I think this is the closest I've ever come to pure evil.
- [06:28]
Joanna
Well, how crazy that she sort of understood it. Maybe she felt the vibes.
- [06:34]
Michael
She did. I mean. I mean, all your felt there was the vibes.
- [06:38]
Joanna
Okay. But there's a bit that I want to read because what you capture so well is that moment. So when was this, 25 years ago? Yeah, 25 years ago. So it was the beginning of the tech revolution, the beginning of the Internet, all that stuff. And people sensed that it was in their reach to make millions off this thing. So that's also sort of hanging as a carapace of ambition above everybody.
- [07:03]
Michael
Yeah. The whole world is changing at this point, and I can't. And it's hard to. It's hard to actually summon that sense, that sense that everything was possible, that everyone was possible, that there were no constraints on anything. And actually, if you were constrained, you had to kind of get rid of that and rush toward whatever this was that was happening.
- [07:31]
Joanna
Right. And funnily enough, I talked to a friend in Silicon Valley over the weekend who's founded countless businesses. And I was asking him about what is the feeling about the war in Silicon Valley? And he said, no one mentions it. Only thing people are interested in is AI. How AI is going to change everything. It's all about data centers in the sky. He was furiously investing in data centers in the sky. But just that sense that in Silicon Valley, no one is paying attention to this war. It's all about the future. And you get the sense of that feeling again, there is a new boundary to be broken.
- [08:08]
Michael
And just remember that when people say all about the future, effectively, what that means is it's all about the money.
- [08:15]
Joanna
Well, I was just gonna say. Right, it's all about the money. All right, so you've got a. I'm just gonna read. It's a short paragraph, but I loved it. Private planes, those attended by decorators, speciality craftsmen and engineers with overhead bins removed, seating reconfigured into lounge areas, an entertainment space, color schemes of muted pastels, and on this one, a mirrored and lacquered bedroom cabin we all peeked in certainly suggested excess, but this is the bit I loved. Also an experience that if you were trying to participate in the new world, you were grateful not to miss out on. And it's that understanding that you want to at least smell this and see this and be part of it. And then still it was hard not to feel the unlikeliness and undeserved privilege of being here, and hard to summon the confidence that might seem to be required. It was just so not middle class. But there was a willing suspension of disbelief too. We were here after all, so that meant something. Perhaps that we should be. And that sense of the future. You want to be part of it, and this is the gateway to it. Anyway, I thought it was a fantastic column.
- [09:32]
Michael
Thanks, I appreciate that.
- [09:33]
Joanna
Can we just mention the other the fascinating comment of when you so there's a scene then with the Google founders who come skipping onto the plane because they're excited cause they know a big plane is in their future. But then there's also another moment where you go on with Epstein. He offers you a lift cause you're going somewhere else. And he says to you at one point, today's sponsor is a travel essential. It's called Saily, and it's one of those products I wish I'd known about, frankly, years ago. Whenever I'm traveling and I arrive at my destination, the first thing I do is try and get online, largely to check what's going on at the Daily Beast. Panicking about WI fi is not a great way to start a trip, but this is where Saily comes in. Saily is an ESIM app from the security experts behind NordVPN. And it gives you instant, affordable data in over 200 destinations around the world at a fraction of what your carrier would charge you for roaming using it. It couldn't be simpler. Before your trip, download the Saily app, Choose your data plan for your destination. Turn on Saily's ESIM as soon as you arrive. You're immediately connected and you're saving money. Plus, you get safety features that help protect your web browsing and reduce data usage by blocking onerous ads, which can save you close to 30% on your data plan. More money staying where it belongs in your pocket. To get an exclusive 15% discount on saily ESIM data plans, download the Saily app. If you're listening, that's S A I L Y. Or if you're watching, scan the QR code on screen now. Then choose your plan and use code Beast at the checkout. That's code Beast at checkout for 15% off your first purchase. All the details are in the podcast episode description box.
- [11:31]
Michael
And it's just so on this one, on the way out, there's quite a number of, there's a dozen people or so, but he's going to LA and I have to go to LA for something. So I literally hitch a ride on that, on that leg. And the only people on the plane are the three pilots, the three girls who have, who have, and I described this, have accompanied him and they sort of act like the airline hostesses. It's completely unclear who they are and what they are, but they're back on the plane and then Epstein and me, and that's the entire number of people on this 757.
- [12:14]
Joanna
All right, so three pilots, three air stewardesses who are the kind of girls dressed in black with long blow dried hair that he has around him at all times. And you, and then he says to you,
- [12:27]
Michael
he says, we're on, we're just getting situated. And you're kind of in this thing. What do I do here? Because this is. How do you comport yourself on this large plane that no one else is on.
- [12:39]
Joanna
Right. And also there's always a special gratitude that's involved to someone who's giving you a lift on a plane.
- [12:45]
Michael
And he says to me, and this is language that I've never heard before and I don't really quite know what it means. One would know what it means from this vantage point, but from that vantage point, and this is the only, the second, I mean, I've flown out with this, with this guy and this is essentially part of the first meeting with this person who I don't know. And he says the following. He says, do you want to ride back here in the petting zoo or up front with the pilots? Now this is, I'm whipsawed by this thing because I don't really know what the first thing that he said, what does that actually mean? Could it mean what it might seem to mean? But then you're whipsawed by the other thing to ride in the cockpit with the pilots, which is frankly something I have always dreamed of doing. I've always wondered what that must be like, what that feeling must, must be like. So you immediately dismiss what, whatever you've heard. This petting zoo that just goes out of your head and you say, yeah, the pilots. And then, but, but as soon as you agree to that and then you're there, you think, what, what, what, what was that? Did I hear that correctly?
- [14:08]
Joanna
Right?
- [14:10]
Michael
And then, but it doesn't matter because you put it out of your head because you are riding up in the cockpit, which is an experience that I've never had again. And an extraordinary experience. This wrap around windows with the plane, this large plane which seems to move so slowly in and out of the clouds and you can actually feel it's sort of the waves of this thing. I mean, I would have gladly sat in this plane for the next, for the rest of my life.
- [14:41]
Joanna
I think that's as excited as I've ever seen you, the five year old, your inner five year old, sitting cockpit with pilots of a plane. Anyway, it's a fascinating read. I can't wait for the rest of the series. And it just reminds you of that weird time and how people get sucked into people's orbits because they think they're important or they're gonna promise something. And when you have a huge plane like that, it feels like this man has a validation.
- [15:15]
Michael
No. And it's very hard. From what we know now and the narrative as it exists, it's very hard for anyone to understand where Jeffrey Epstein came from, how you wouldn't immediately recognize him as a completely bad guy. And so to go back to the beginning of this story and then trace it through, I think my hope is the context, the story will make sense instead of from this point looking at it backwards. Now, everybody says this doesn't make any sense at all, right?
- [15:51]
Joanna
But in fact, on the plane you were beginning A relationship with a man that turns out to be, as you have said to me, the most diabolical man of the 20. What century are we in? 21st century. Anyway, it's a fascinating read. And are we at war? Are we not at war? I think you mentioned whipsaw, but there's such whiplash about what's going on. You know, I look out of the window, it's a beautiful day, the grape hyacinths are growing on my deck. The weekend was fabulous. And then you're like, but are we at war? Is this the beginning of something that could really spiral out of control with someone at the centre of it who no one has any idea what he's going to say next. Including him.
- [16:38]
Michael
No. My 10 year old at dinner last night, could this turn into a world war? I said, no, it couldn't.
- [16:46]
Joanna
Well, you have to say that to a 10 year old, right?
- [16:51]
Michael
Yeah, I'm actually not sure that it could because, I mean, it's this peculiar situation of, I mean, no one is going to come to the defense, to the Iranian defense at the same time, and we have complete military supremacy over Iran, but at the same time they seem to be in the catbird seat, they appear to hold all of the leverage. How did Donald Trump get himself into this situation? Well, that's a rhetorical question.
- [17:30]
Joanna
Right. Well, and I want to know what you're hearing from people that I know you've been speaking to. But also just that the derision he holds for other presidents for not having done this. And his comment, well, you know, one of the presidents, he told me that he wished he'd done this. Of course they all come out and say, no, we didn't. And this fantasy land that he seems to live in is quite incredible.
- [17:58]
Michael
Yeah, I mean, it's a fantasy. You think that this. Yes, that this is a fantasy. But the weird thing about this fantasy is the fantasy seems to change minute by minute. So it's not as if, you know, I mean, George Bush and the Iraq war, that was a fantasy, but it was a coherent fantasy. I mean, it all went cropper, of course, but they were there, they had outlined this, they were just wrong in all of their assumptions. But Trump doesn't even seem to have any assumptions. And they could change. I'm sure they will change today. Where are we at this morning? This morning we're at. He's going to negotiate. Except he doesn't know who he's gonna negotiate with, nor does he know what he's going to negotiate. What does he want what would we take? What would they give? None of this is clear.
- [19:03]
Joanna
I know. I mean, except that they have a stranglehold on the Strait of Hormuz which could have been anticipated. We have Marines steaming their way there maybe to hold the Iranians off. The Iranians are threatened to get.
- [19:19]
Michael
We don't know what their. We don't know how to break this stranglehold.
- [19:25]
Joanna
Right. And incredibly, the Iranians appear to be, although we don't know if this is true, cuz we don't know who's actually saying it on behalf of the Iranians that they now want compensation, which is such a Donald Trump move. Right. Remember when he was hustling the DOJ for quarter of a billion dollars for the hassle that he'd gone through during his period out of power at Mar a Lago? He was like, you guys owe me $230 million. A number he clearly picked out of his. Well, wherever he'd picked it out of his nose, perhaps. But the Iranians seem to be giving it back to him.
- [19:57]
Michael
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- [20:38]
Joanna
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- [21:12]
Michael
Jared and Steve, I think that we can always. The fundamental. The bottom line is that Witkoff and Kushner always make money.
- [21:22]
Joanna
Trump went to Graceland. The obvious comparison is Trump and Elvis. Well, I think we have a clip of him.
- [21:29]
Michael
So I knew Frank Sinatra. I knew most of them. Unfortunately I never met Elvis and that would be one I would have liked a lot. But I do like his music, I will say so thank you for Inviting me. I appreciate it. I mean, first thing, I have never. I've never put those two together, which is my fault, because they really do belong together.
- [21:52]
Joanna
They really do.
- [21:52]
Michael
They really do have a. They share a look.
- [22:00]
Joanna
They do share a look. I mean, Donald Trump would look good in those. Elvis. I'm quite surprised he hasn't dressed up as Elvis for one of his Mar A Lago parties, which he still goes to at the weekends, despite the fact we're at war. So this weekend, he was at a ritzy Republican fundraiser at Mar a Lago.
- [22:18]
Michael
But there's another interesting thing there that this also signals, which I hadn't thought of, is that he is not part of that Elvis moment, that Elvis cultural moment. I mean, he is. I mean, what did. He immediately went to Frank, I mean, you know, because he's much more of a Rat Pack kind of guy. And the Elvis thing, actually at that I can. The Elvis thing was kind of cratering as he was. So by the mid-60s, Elvis was sort of out of it, to say the least, sadly. And so he probably has never had any interest in Elvis. And he doesn't play Elvis on the plane. So Elvis is not on his mix.
- [23:13]
Joanna
Right. Well, and he's a YMCA guy, which is the 80s. Right. He's doing the swivel hips of Elvis. He's doing the kind of weird. That weird thing he does with his hands. So we're inside Trump's head. A big chunk of it is obsessed
- [23:29]
Michael
by the wall, or maybe not. That's, you know, I kind of wonder about that. Is the war really holding his attention? Or actually, does he just want to get out of this thing?
- [23:41]
Joanna
Well, and we're in week four now, too, which is a long time to hold his attention.
- [23:47]
Michael
Except that the thing that has held his attention, and it has been really the foundational point of his kind of his entire political career, and still holds his attention and is back to the forefront of his attention, which is elections.
- [24:10]
Joanna
Right. And that they're rigged. And this seems to me, I mean, his determination to try and get the Save America act passed. And again, he's hitching all sorts of things to it, as he did with the big beautiful bill, is he creates a problem that doesn't exist. Then he seems determined to find a solution for the problem that doesn't exist, therefore creating chaos in the American election
- [24:38]
Michael
system, therefore also creating a narrative. So this is the drama. This is reality television. So the reality television of it all is that the American electoral system doesn't work.
- [24:56]
Joanna
Right.
- [24:56]
Michael
It doesn't work. It has all kinds of holes in it. And that. And that gives room to all kinds of fraudsters, corruption, and it's a threat to you, the voters. But here is Donald Trump saying, I can save this.
- [25:15]
Joanna
Only I can save this.
- [25:16]
Michael
Only I can save this. And it is the thing that if I don't win, this is why.
- [25:25]
Joanna
Right. So it's also got.
- [25:27]
Michael
But from the beginning, just Even before the 2016 victory, he was on about, they're going to steal it from me.
- [25:39]
Joanna
Well, and the whole idea that he lost 2020 because he couldn't believe that he would lose against Joe Biden, and then he's also got these two extremes that he holds in his head as well, that he is the only person that can solve this. Cause he's the most important person. And only he knows how to make these decisions. And he knows more than anybody else. Something he's always saying he knows more than the generals. And then this sense of, it's all rigged against me. They're all out to get me. The kind of paranoia and the grandiosity at the same time.
- [26:13]
Michael
But do you realize how complicated this is to create this entire world, to live inside of this world, to occupy it, then to bring so many other people inside of it? I mean, he has brought, for one thing, he has brought the entire Republican Party. Now, all of these people in the Republican Party, every last one of them, 100% understand that the election, that the United States. The election system in the United States works pretty well. They understand that. They believe that. And they also understand that 2020 was. He lost the election. Nobody, there is nobody who thinks otherwise.
- [26:57]
Joanna
Right.
- [26:59]
Michael
So there is only one person. I mean, that's really kind of incredible, one person who thinks otherwise.
- [27:07]
Joanna
And does he really think that, or does he just think that it's a good thing for him to create this drama?
- [27:14]
Michael
No, I think that you need to actually, in order to sustain this, in order to stay in character, you have to believe it. And I have sat with the man as he has gone over these numbers. The numbers come out. You think, oh, my God, he has no idea where these numbers come from. He has no idea what he's talking about. But nevertheless, he's in pig heaven with these numbers.
- [27:42]
Joanna
And he's just made them up.
- [27:44]
Michael
He's just made them up, or he's heard them from somewhere. Somehow they have come to him. And in a way that he has come to believe they are legitimate and genuine. I do believe that he believes that the election, the 2020 election was stolen from him. That he is absolutely, absolutely the rightful winner. Now, again, nobody else, nobody in his family, nobody among his advisors, nobody. And nobody in the leadership of the Republican Party, nobody in the White House. Everybody saw. I mean, I was sort of around at this period, and you would just see one after another of the people in the White House. You know, they were just. That was the gesture. I was like, don't ask me. And then they were out of there.
- [28:44]
Joanna
So what happens when the bill doesn't get passed?
- [28:47]
Michael
You know, I don't know. And I'm. So the bill, from everything that we know, this bill cannot be passed. And this is the Save America act, which is basically. I mean, it basically means that you have to show a. A significant threshold of identification, Right.
- [29:14]
Joanna
I think you need proof of American citizenship.
- [29:16]
Michael
Well, that's what I'm saying. It's not just, you know, I don't even think it's just a driver's license. You know, it's passports, it's birth certificates. It's a whole threshold here which an enormous number of people in this country can't get over. I mean, very few people actually. I mean, the numbers of people who actually, in America who actually have a passport is, you know, its own peculiar kind of scandal, right? That is to say, very few people have a passport, right?
- [29:50]
Joanna
And lots of women change their name when they get married. And then you have to find your marriage certificate. You have to find your original birth certificate. The whole thing isn't.
- [29:58]
Michael
No. So. And it is. You're right. There is no, there is no problem here. There is nobody, nobody is making any kind of credible accusations that the American voting system is rife with, well, non citizens, in this case, non citizens voting nobody.
- [30:19]
Joanna
Right. But what an interesting and cynical and frankly horrifying thing to do to try and get at the very center of democracy by saying it's rotten to its core. All sorts of illegal people vote. The results are not valid. I mean, it's hard not to think about it.
- [30:45]
Michael
Well, let me. There have always been rules about who can vote, right? And they go from the unacceptable and ridiculous at times in American history to the procedural and the procedure here. And if you say to people, well, do you think. And that's what they do, they say, that's the question. Well, do you think that only American citizens should be allowed to vote? And then everybody says, oh, yeah, that's, yeah, because only American citizens are allowed to vote.
- [31:24]
Joanna
Right.
- [31:24]
Michael
But the insinuation, obviously, is that people, all kinds of people who are not American citizens are voting. Okay?
- [31:36]
Joanna
And specifically The Democrats. He keeps saying the Democrats want all sorts of illegals to vote.
- [31:41]
Michael
Yes, but this is. So you set that up. Should only American citizens be allowed to vote? And then people say yes, and then they say, well, okay, then shouldn't they have to prove that they are American citizens? And there is some vague logic to that, of course, but the other interesting thing is it's not actually clear that this will benefit the Republicans.
- [32:14]
Joanna
Well, that's what I was going to come on and ask you, because the assumption is somehow that this is going to benefit the Democrats, but it's going
- [32:23]
Michael
to limit the voting pool. We know that. And it might considerably limit the voting pool by 20%, possibly as much as that. But it doesn't necessarily mean that it is going to limit the Democratic voters, although the Democrats are afraid of that. And there is a certain degree of. Of logic, and I'm trying to think actually what the logic is. And I think the logic is young people. It will most stymie a set of groups. Young people, black people.
- [33:12]
Joanna
Well, and also, as Donald Trump, he says he loves the uneducated. Uneducated people are less likely to have a passport, and they're probably less likely to be able to access their documents. It's a bit of a generalization.
- [33:27]
Michael
Well, it is because there's a lot of more uneducated people or people with fewer have had fewer years in school. Let's not call them uneducated People who have had fewer years in school, name
- [33:45]
Joanna
his word for it. Are more likely the uneducated. I love them. I love the uneducated.
- [33:50]
Michael
I'm gonna make a plea that you don't do Trump imitations anymore.
- [33:55]
Joanna
Fair enough. I just don't want to give him the benefit of an English accent.
- [34:00]
Michael
But many more people with fewer years of schooling are more likely to vote for Donald Trump. Okay, so what does that mean? And I think what this means is it's just what is to his advantage is just the narrative that the election system in the United States is broken and chaos is to his advantage. And to create a bubble of uncertainty and controversy around that is reverts to, no matter what happens, reverts to his advantage. So if he loses the midterm, this is not going to. Let's assume this is not going to pass. So why is he doing this? And I'm actually answering my question in real time to myself. The reason he is doing this is to set up and to continue the narrative. When he loses the midterms, this, then, this is why becomes the issue. This, then becomes the reason he lost the midterms. And he lost the midterms illegitimately. And again, we've set up the enemy here.
- [35:26]
Joanna
Right.
- [35:29]
Michael
Because it doesn't make any sense. Everybody knows this is not going to pass. In order for this to pass, they would have to do away with the filibuster in the Senate, which nobody wants to do. Neither party wants to do so, therefore. And he's basically said, don't do anything else. Don't pass any other legislation. Don't work on anything else. It must only be this. This, which is not going to come to pass. So why would he be doing this? Now, you can't discount the possibility that no one has told him this can't possibly pass, but I suspect that that must be obvious enough for even him. So therefore, why is he pushing this forward? He's pushing this forward because he has pushed this story forward from day one of his political career. That's what his. Essentially his politics is founded on. This. On this. I was gonna say belief, but, you know, it's no one else's belief. And so it's on this narrative. Let's just call it that.
- [36:48]
Joanna
Okay.
- [36:48]
Michael
It's his story. What is his story?
- [36:51]
Joanna
So if he wins, the system is perfect, and if he loses, the system is rigged.
- [36:57]
Michael
Yes, but he's not gonna win. So the system is going to be rigged.
- [37:01]
Joanna
Well, we don't know he's not gonna ring. We don't know he's not going to
- [37:05]
Michael
r. I thought that would be a pretty. I would say.
- [37:14]
Joanna
Well, usually the incumbent.
- [37:16]
Michael
Yes. I mean, it's a terrible. I mean, things are terrible for him at this point.
- [37:20]
Joanna
Point.
- [37:20]
Michael
There's another reason he's pushing this along. You know, this is another kind of distraction. So it is going to be. Not that I. Not that I lost because of the war, because of the economy, because of Minneapolis, because of the Epstein files, because of Epstein. It's. I lost because the American electoral system is corrupt. And you, my voters, have been cheated.
- [37:46]
Joanna
That's the cliffhanger. We'll be back on Thursday to actually talk about Donald Trump's brain. I mean, we're inside his head the whole time. But I don't feel I ever leave his head at this point, do you? I mean, that's the other thing that's so fascinating that he's got this grip on all of us.
- [38:07]
Michael
Yeah. And we're gonna go. I mean, what. I mean, we are in an era that we are ruled by a dummy. So let's get into that. How dumb is dumb?
- [38:20]
Joanna
Well, we're going to do a proper examination of his brain in as much as one can, but we're going to do that on Thursday. So if you have been, thank you for watching. I'm not sure what my favorite part of this conversation was. I'm always trying to think about that as we wrap up so much of it, but really this idea that he's creating a problem that doesn't exist to finagle the results of the election. And I do think it's much more serious than people perhaps understand.
- [38:50]
Michael
Well, it's fundamentally about democracy, of course, but then it's fundamentally about the way he approaches politics, the way he approaches everything, which is not just creating a problem, a problem that doesn't exist, that only he can solve, but that's, that's part of it, but a full story structure. This is reality television in which he can create the drama and he is the drama.
- [39:23]
Joanna
Don't forget to subscribe to the Daily Beast. We are independent media. We got some criticism for reading ads which I thought was a little unfair because media has always survived with ads. But the Daily Beast is an independent media companies, so that's why we run them. And there was one in particular about me recommending a skin product called One Skin, which I have been using. And I asked viewers to remark on whether or not my skin is looking any better because it's a controlled environment. So.
- [39:58]
Michael
Well, what are you talking about? I had to read an ad for a male supplement which all I want to say is that I grew up with, listening to live radio where everybody, all of the announcers read ads. So I'm in. I feel like a, I feel like
- [40:16]
Joanna
you're back in the 50s. Anyway, for those of you who leave the comment, we're independent media, feel free to support us. You can join the bebeast Tier membership as so many of our, our viewers have, and we appreciate it. So thank you very much. And if you want more of Michael's series on his friendship with Jeffrey Epstein, how it all began, and I really do urge you to read it for a proper sense of context, then you can take a picture of the QR code, which is apparently now up on the screen, and subscribe. But we'll be back on Thursday to talk about Donald Trump's brain and whether or not he really is passing all those mocha tests that he says he is.
- [40:59]
Michael
See you then.
- [41:01]
Joanna
So the good news is we have so many beebeast Tier members now, there are too many names to read out. And we really appreciate your support. Thanks to our production team. Devon Rogerino, Ryan Murray. Rachel Passer, Heather Passaro, Neil Rosenhaus.