Inside Trump's Head — “Trump’s Ugly Scheme to Exploit RFK Jr.: Wolff”
Date: September 1, 2025
Hosts: Michael Wolff (Trump biographer), Joanna Coles (Daily Beast)
Topic: Trump’s appointment of Robert F. Kennedy Jr. (RFK Jr.) to oversee American public health, motivations behind it, the consequences for public health and politics, and the tangled personal and political history woven into the decision.
Episode Overview
This urgent episode confronts the alarming dismantling of America’s public health system under Trump’s second administration, triggered by his appointment of RFK Jr. to lead public health policy. Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles dive into Trump’s motivations—political calculation overpowering public safety—and explore RFK Jr.'s checkered personal history and its intersection with MAGA anti-vaccine sentiment. The episode interrogates both the psychology and strategy in Trump’s "devil’s bargain" with RFK Jr., outlining the real-time consequences for U.S. governance and the future of the country.
Key Discussion Points & Insights
1. The Chaos of Trump's Decision Making
[01:46–03:37]
- The episode is framed by the “on fire” status of America’s public health system, with Trump, according to Wolff, thriving amidst the chaos.
- Trump appoints RFK Jr.—a man “with zero medical qualifications”—as head of CDC/public health, shocking experts as CDC leaders flee and advisory panels fall apart.
- Quote (Michael Wolff, 02:32): “One of the most dangerous [powers in the country], and also potentially one of Trump’s successors.”
2. Why Appoint RFK Jr.? Trump’s Calculated Bargain
[04:28–11:55]
- Wolff argues that appointing an incompetent is unsurprising—Trump historically packs his administration with unqualified loyalists.
- Quote (Wolff, 04:28): “I don’t think we should express surprise that Donald Trump would put any incompetent in any job... that seems to be a requirement.”
- RFK Jr.’s path: From “wastrel life” (drug abuse, womanizing) and political exile to being encouraged by Steve Bannon and Roger Stone to shake up the Democratic primary, then running as an independent.
- RFK Jr.'s popularity as an anti-vax figure splits both parties, but post-Biden, his voters shift Republican, making him a GOP problem.
3. The Vice Presidential Dance and Bargain
[08:05–11:39]
- Trump is deeply attracted to the Kennedy name, even fantasizing about “Trump-Kennedy 2024.”
- RFK Jr. rebuffs a VP offer from Trump. As a solution, the Trump team offers him leadership of U.S. public health in exchange for dropping out and neutralizing his political threat.
- Quote (Wolff, 09:13): “Yes. Then, then in fact, at some point, RFK Jr. turns him down on this and Trump is very disappointed.”
- The anti-vax movement, pivotal to the MAGA base, creates vulnerability for Trump—RFK Jr. provides a shield for Trump’s own ambiguous vaccine legacy (he championed Operation Warp Speed).
4. The Rise of the Anti-Vax Movement Within MAGA
[11:55–14:36]
- The anti-vax position is foundational to the current MAGA movement—signaling anti-expert, anti-establishment identity.
- Quote (Wolff, 12:07): “MAGA people are against expertise…To be anti-Vax is to be anti-government, anti-establishment, and anti-expertise.”
- The logic-defying nature of anti-vax beliefs is explored as both hosts agree on the societal dangers.
5. The Deal Closes: RFK Jr. Gets the Job
[15:00–17:24]
- Trump is weak with the anti-vax base; RFK Jr. solves the problem by becoming the face of administration public health.
- Quote (Wolff, 17:16): “The weakness on this issue, the vax issue... they solved this problem by just giving RFK Jr. the health portfolio of the United States of America.”
- The benefits are twofold for Trump: RFK Jr. is neutralized as a political threat and provides credibility among anti-vax MAGA voters.
6. RFK Jr.'s Troubled Past and Damaging Present
[18:19–20:13]
- Wolff describes RFK Jr.’s notorious voice, attributing it to drug abuse (“crackpipe voice”), and a life “decades of addiction.”
- His hypocrisy: RFK Jr. moves to restrict life-saving overdose interventions even as a long-time addict.
7. The Political Calculation Trumps Public Health
[20:13–22:05]
- Political survival outweighs public safety for Trump—“better the health system be at risk than his support in the MAGA base be at risk,” says Wolff.
- Despite the danger to public health, MAGA loyalty is prioritized.
8. RFK Jr.'s Psychology, Brokenness, and Path to Power
[22:19–32:36]
- Wolff paints a psychological portrait: RFK Jr. is embittered by perceived lost entitlement, now empowered as a leading MAGA figure, likely to run for president in 2028.
- Quote (Wolff, 22:19): “He is, and I certainly have no doubt in my mind, running for president in 2028.”
- Anecdotes from Wolff’s decades-long acquaintance: chronic womanizing, drug use, troubled sleep, and heavy dependence on legacy and myth of the Kennedy name.
- Quote (Wolff, 30:36): “He doesn’t survive it in one piece. He is a broken guy. And that is not the surprising thing. The surprising thing is that the broken guy has now such power and authority and meaning in contemporary America.”
9. Dismantling Public Health, Irreversible Consequences
[34:44–34:55]
- The hosts voice concern that once public health institutions like the CDC are unraveled, they may not be restorable.
- Quote (Coles, 34:44): “Once you unravel something like the CDC... it’s very difficult to rebuild these things and give them any authority.”
10. The Enablers, Opportunists, and Danger Rankings
[35:16–37:46]
- Discussion of those, like Nicole Shanahan, who financially bolstered RFK Jr.’s campaign for expedient reasons.
- Coles and Wolff list others who are considered dangerous in the Trump administration, debating whether any are as perilous as RFK Jr. in his current role.
11. The Kennedy Family's Public Rejection and Further Isolation
[38:41–40:28]
- Caroline Kennedy and others publicly denounce RFK Jr., even recounting disturbing childhood stories; the family is united in antipathy.
- Quote (Coles, 39:57): “[He] used to make cocktails in a blender for his snakes by putting in live animals... an altogether bad guy. I mean it’s rare to see someone’s family come out so unified against, against someone.”
12. Shakespearean Tragedy and the Next Phase
[41:49–End]
- The hosts frame RFK Jr. as a late-in-life power-seeker willing to betray all family legacy, and America as “hurtling back to medieval times.”
- Trump’s ultimate discomfort with RFK Jr. is predicted—everyone “eventually becomes too much for Donald Trump.” Meanwhile, RFK Jr. is poised to be a viable 2028 contender.
- Quote (Wolff, 41:27): “The devil’s bargain...abandon any element of his family’s history, tradition, beliefs, moral code, anything... a raw, complete power grab.”
- Quote (Coles, 42:00): “Yet another Shakespearean character in the court of Donald Trump.”
Memorable Quotes & Moments
| Timestamp | Speaker | Quote | |-----------|----------------|----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:32 | Michael Wolff | "One of the most dangerous [powers in the country], and also potentially one of Trump's successors." | | 04:28 | Michael Wolff | "I don’t think we should express surprise that Donald Trump would put any incompetent in any job... that seems to be a requirement." | | 09:13 | Michael Wolff | "Yes. Then, then in fact, at some point, RFK Jr. turns him down [for VP] and Trump is very disappointed." | | 12:07 | Wolff | "MAGA people are against expertise…To be anti-Vax is to be anti-government, anti-establishment, and anti-expertise." | | 17:16 | Wolff | "The weakness on this issue, the vax issue... they solved this problem by just giving RFK Jr the health portfolio of the United States of America." | | 20:13 | Wolff | "Better the health system be at risk than his support in the MAGA base be at risk." | | 22:19 | Wolff | "He is, and I certainly have no doubt in my mind, running for president in 2028." | | 30:36 | Wolff | "He doesn’t survive it in one piece. He is a broken guy. And that is not the surprising thing. The surprising thing is that the broken guy has now such power and authority and meaning in contemporary America." | | 34:44 | Coles | "Once you unravel something like the CDC... it’s very difficult to rebuild these things and give them any authority." | | 39:57 | Coles | "[He] used to make cocktails in a blender for his snakes by putting in live animals... an altogether bad guy." | | 41:27 | Wolff | "The devil’s bargain... abandon any element of his family’s history, tradition, beliefs, moral code, anything... a raw, complete power grab."| | 42:00 | Coles | "Yet another Shakespearean character in the court of Donald Trump." |
Important Segment Timestamps
- 01:35: Beginning of main discussion, framing the urgency.
- 02:30: RFK Jr. as dangerous and a possible successor.
- 07:00: Story of RFK Jr.'s political journey.
- 09:08: Trump’s infatuation with “Trump, Kennedy 2024.”
- 11:39: Wolff on Trump’s COVID vaccine legacy and MAGA exposure.
- 12:07: MAGA’s anti-expert/anti-vax culture.
- 17:16: The solution—RFK Jr. given the health portfolio.
- 22:19: Wolff on RFK Jr.’s ambitions for 2028.
- 27:22: Wolff’s personal recollections of RFK Jr.’s self-destruction.
- 34:44: Irreparability of public health infrastructure.
- 39:50: Kennedy family’s unified rejection of RFK Jr.
Analysis & Concluding Tone
Throughout, Wolff and Coles maintain a tone of incredulity, dark humor, and historical gravity. They draw on decades of direct experience and reporting, characterizing Trump’s moves as self-interested, chaotic, and perilous for the nation. RFK Jr. is painted as both an embodiment of hobbled privilege and a willing tool of the new anti-institutional right. The implications, they warn, are larger than another political farce—they endanger tens of millions and the legitimacy of American governance itself.
Listen for:
- Political calculations overriding public safety
- Portraits of entitlement, resentment, and brokenness driving American politics
- Dire warnings about the fragility and necessity of expert institutions
- Prediction of RFK Jr. as a 2028 presidential candidate, symbolizing a further shift in the GOP and America
“It’s a raw, complete power grab... a life that no one would want. The surprising thing is that the broken guy has now such power and authority and meaning in contemporary America.” —Michael Wolff [41:27]
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