White Lotus' Deepest Secrets Revealed

Summary

The Daily Beast Podcast: "White Lotus' Deepest Secrets Revealed"

Release Date: April 10, 2025

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Introduction and Opening Discussions [01:32 – 04:15]

Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee kick off the episode with light-hearted banter about their recent live show with Don Lemon at Club Zero Bond in New York. Joanna shares her enjoyment of the event, noting the camaraderie and the shared experience of ordering margaritas with Don Lemon:

Joanna Coles [03:10]: "I thought, you know what? I'll have a tequila. And I thought it was even more fun doing it with alcohol."

Samantha humorously admits her limited tolerance for alcohol, adding a relatable touch to their conversation:

Samantha Bee [03:19]: "I don't really drink all that much, so even a sip of a beverage loosens me tremendously."

The hosts then transition to discussing the cultural phenomenon surrounding HBO's "White Lotus," highlighting its impact and the intense conversations it has sparked, even surpassing political figures like Donald Trump:

Joanna Coles [03:51]: "White Lotus might have eclipsed Donald Trump as the biggest conversation stopper this week because we had the finale on Sunday."

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Tariffs, Stock Market, and Economic Insights with Hugh Doherty [04:15 – 25:00]

Joanna and Samantha welcome Hugh Doherty, the Daily Beast's Executive Editor, to delve into the complexities of tariffs, the stock market, and economic trends. Hugh provides a comprehensive overview of the current financial landscape:

Hugh Doherty [14:06]: "The stock market has been on its way down and we're recording this on Liberation Day plus seven... the stock market has lost quite a lot of value."

The discussion touches on the divergent views within political and business circles, particularly between figures like Elon Musk and Peter Navarro, emphasizing the fragmented nature of current economic policies:

Hugh Doherty [17:15]: "Elon Musk is a free trader. He's not in favor of tariffs, and he's been very clear about that. He's also not in favor of the trade advisor, Peter Navarro, who is very much in favor of tariffs."

Joanna and Samantha interject with humor and personal anecdotes, making the complex topics more accessible to listeners. For instance, Joanna shares her frustration with Verizon over unexpected iPhone costs, reflecting everyday economic struggles:

Joanna Coles [05:00]: "I ended up dropping fifteen hundred dollars on the new iPhone, so God knows what it's going to cost after tariffs."

The conversation also explores the interpersonal dynamics and rivalries within political factions, particularly focusing on figures like Laura Loomer and Susie Wiles, and their influence within the White House:

Hugh Doherty [22:34]: "Laura Loomer has given this display of power, and Susie Wiles, who is known to oppose Laura Loomer in all shapes and forms, has been powerless to stop it."

Throughout this segment, notable humor and candid remarks keep the discussion engaging, such as Samantha's playful comment questioning the color of pills she witnessed on the subway:

Samantha Bee [06:37]: "What color were they?"

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Exclusive Interview with Dave Bernard, Executive Producer of "White Lotus" [25:00 – 53:45]

After a brief hiatus filled with additional advertisements, Joanna and Samantha reconvene to welcome Dave Bernard, the executive producer of "White Lotus." This exclusive interview delves deep into the show's creation, thematic evolution, and behind-the-scenes challenges.

Seasonal Themes and Inspirations [30:07 – 35:10]

Dave Bernard shares insights into the thematic focus of each season, emphasizing how real-world experiences and cultural explorations influence the show's direction:

Dave Bernard [31:03]: "In season three, we knew it was going to be about Eastern philosophy and religion... being there for that long, it was impossible not to have some sort of deep, deeper kind of conversation with yourself."

He recounts the inspiration behind the Sicilian setting for season two, highlighting a local legend that perfectly encapsulated the season's themes of jealousy and betrayal.

Challenges with the Composer and Creative Tensions [36:10 – 44:05]

A significant portion of the interview addresses the contentious relationship between the production team and the show's musical composer, Christo:

Dave Bernard [36:10]: "The entire process of trying to make the show in post with Christo was one of trying to kind of, like, pulling teeth... he treats us like we were morons."

Dave elaborates on the creative disagreements, particularly concerning the theme song's evolution across seasons and the ensuing conflicts with HBO:

Dave Bernard [38:05]: "We fought with HBO about it. Christo as an artist has earned the right to make the theme song whatever he wants to make. So that was a song that we went forward with."

He expresses frustration over public perceptions and media portrayals, defending the collaborative efforts of the production team:

Dave Bernard [39:27]: "I hate this term, but I'm going to use it. It feels like you're being gaslit because... season one, literally nothing happens other than a robbery in the fifth episode."

Critical Acclaim and Audience Engagement [46:07 – 50:33]

Dave highlights the show's unexpected rise to prominence and its ability to foster a communal viewing experience:

Dave Bernard [46:07]: "The only show I can think of recently that's actually had people watching in real time... it shows the craving for a communal experience."

Joanna and Samantha commend Dave and Mike White for maintaining their integrity and fostering a positive work environment despite the show's success.

Personal Reflections and Future Endeavors [50:33 – 53:45]

The conversation concludes with heartfelt reflections on personal relationships and future projects. Dave shares his long-standing friendship with Joanna and their mutual support system:

Dave Bernard [52:11]: "I met Joanna randomly at a dinner... within 10 seconds of meeting her, she's asking me about my love life and like my sex life."

Joanna reminisces about attending a screening at Mike White's house, highlighting the down-to-earth nature of the creative team despite their Hollywood surroundings.

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Conclusion and Closing Remarks [53:45 – 57:35]

As the interview wraps up, Joanna and Samantha express their gratitude to Dave for his candid insights and share amusing anecdotes about the show's development. They invite listeners to engage with the podcast through subscriptions and social media, maintaining the personable and engaging tone that characterizes the episode.

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Notable Quotes:

• Samantha Bee [03:19]: "I don't really drink all that much, so even a sip of a beverage loosens me tremendously."

• Joanna Coles [05:00]: "I ended up dropping fifteen hundred dollars on the new iPhone, so God knows what it's going to cost after tariffs."

• Dave Bernard [31:03]: "In season three, we knew it was going to be about Eastern philosophy and religion... being there for that long, it was impossible not to have some sort of deep, deeper kind of conversation with yourself."

• Dave Bernard [36:10]: "The entire process of trying to make the show in post with Christo was one of trying to kind of, like, pulling teeth... he treats us like we were morons."

---

Final Thoughts:

This episode provides an in-depth look into the intricate workings of a critically acclaimed show like "White Lotus," offering listeners exclusive behind-the-scenes revelations and candid discussions about creative challenges. Joanna Coles and Samantha Bee adeptly navigate complex topics with humor and insight, making the podcast both informative and entertaining for those eager to understand the depth and dedication behind successful television productions.

Transcript

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[Joanna Coles]

Welcome to the Daily Beast podcast. I'm Joanna Coles, Chief content officer of the Daily Beast.

[Samantha Bee]

And I'm Samantha Bee. What am I the chief content officer of this week? Presidential physicals, perhaps?

[Joanna Coles]

Would you like to examine President Trump?

[Samantha Bee]

Would I want to be a fly on the wall? Both yes and no.

[Joanna Coles]

Do you think he actually does any of the physical stuff that you're required to do, like, you know, counter turn backwards or.

[Samantha Bee]

Absolutely not. I mean, he used to take the cognitive tests, but I would imagine he would be fearful of that now. I mean, if I'm fearful of it in menopause, he's got to be scared.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, it's well, and his last doctor but one said that he'd just been ordered what to write.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Joanna Coles]

Which was that he was in tremendously good health.

[Samantha Bee]

He's quite a specimen.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, I will say he's got a ton of energy For a man his age, he's got a ton of energy. I just wish there was some more women around him that weren't Laura Loomer.

[Samantha Bee]

I wish for that so deeply. I wish that he would direct all of that vibrant energy toward making the world a better place and also America. However. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay, Dream on. On the people and the stories that we're obsessed with at the Daily Beast. Last week we had our first live show with Don Lemon at one of New York's hottest members, Club Zero Bond. It was fun.

[Samantha Bee]

It was very fun. I did not know what to expect, but it was actually. It was great.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, and I noticed.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

That you and Don both ordered a margarita. At which point I thought, you know what? I'll have a tequila. And I thought it was even more fun doing it with alcohol.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't really drink all that much, so even a sip of a beverage loosens me tremendously. But I have to be very careful because I don't really drink. When I do, I immediately start slurring and I become like. Just like a lush in I did.

[Joanna Coles]

Not notice you slurring.

[Samantha Bee]

In a novel.

[Joanna Coles]

I did not notice you slurring.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank God. Well, I didn't get there. I didn't. But it would have not taken too much.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, well, I did notice you drank the margarita.

[Samantha Bee]

I did. It was delicious.

[Joanna Coles]

It was very good. They have good bar staff there. And I got through half a tequila with a big rock, which is my favorite drink. So this week we're back in the studio, and we've got an interview with the executive producer of the show everybody is talking about. In fact, I think that White Lotus might have eclipsed Donald Trump as the biggest conversation stopper this week because we had the finale on Sunday.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, we're also desperate to talk about something that feel totally dreadful. So I agree with you. I couldn't. If somebody was open to having a conversation about the White Lotus, I went there with them, and I intend to do the same thing today, because I really did. I enjoy it. So tremendous. You know what I love? Content for adults.

[Joanna Coles]

Content for adults.

[Samantha Bee]

It's nice.

[Joanna Coles]

I thought that, first of all, how much do we love Jason Isaacs? So much. Even though he's a corrupt businessman. And I did find the death of Chelsea upsetting.

[Samantha Bee]

I found it upsetting.

[Joanna Coles]

Innocent.

[Samantha Bee]

Chelsea, Pure, as my daughter would say. Pure.

[Joanna Coles]

Pure gold digging. Chelsea, with those lovely teeth.

[Samantha Bee]

How dare you?

[Joanna Coles]

I think she got her teeth into something in that show. But because we can't stop checking out our 401ks, we're joined by Daily Beast executive editor Hugh Doherty to help us unpack the tariffs and the stock market and whether iPhones made in America really would cost $45,000.

[Samantha Bee]

45. The price keeps going up.

[Joanna Coles]

I bought a new iPhone.

[Samantha Bee]

You did?

[Joanna Coles]

About six weeks ago. I'm still transferring the apps onto it. Such a disruptive nightmare. Absolutely hate it.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

But the thing that I found very confusing was, according to my Verizon contract, I should have been Able to get the iPhone free because every two years, according to my contract. Yeah, of course, when I go in there to try and make it happen, it doesn't happen. And I end up dropping fifteen hundred dollars on the new iPhone, so God knows what it's going to cost after tariffs.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, I have no idea. I just updated myself so I'm feeling good about that convers. I will do that. Now, we did have. We had a guest who was supposed to be on the podcast this week and then he called in sick. And I have to say that it's not a problem that that happened, but I am a little discombobulated and I'm kind of crabby in a very New York way, which is to say that when people play the accordion, like on the subway, I'm just like, absolutely not. And I get off the subway and wait for the next.

[Joanna Coles]

Cannot imagine. This morning I also took the subway and the woman opposite me opened a bottle of pills. And I'm not making this up, put like probably 20 pills into her open palm, palmed them into her mouth, and then slugged them down with a cappuccino.

[Samantha Bee]

What color were they?

[Joanna Coles]

Well, they were double colored, so half red and half white. And I thought, is this some kind of vitamin regimen or. Or is this a sort of, you know, Jason Isaacs, Timothy Ratcliffe moment? It's disconcerting.

[Samantha Bee]

I don't know what your childhood was like, but when I was growing up and we were playing with dolls and stuff, we would always buy tic tacs and then pretend that we were popping pills. It was just not. Probably not okay. But in the 70s, we all would like, get a, like a cocktail, like a rocks glass. Put rocks in it and some water and just, just slug a bunch of like, just dramatically. Like in a penoir. Yeah, like at 7 years old, in a penoir, popping pills with a rocks glass. Anyways, listen, I have a gift for you. Because I was in France. Yeah. Because I was in France and I got you something that I know you treasure and I'm excited for you.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, I'm very excited for it.

[Samantha Bee]

The box is a little bashed up because I carried it around for a long time.

[Joanna Coles]

Thank you so much. Miracle cream from France. Very difficult to get here. You can't get the French recipe here because I'm sure it wouldn't pass the fda.

[Samantha Bee]

No, it's definitely. That is chock full. That's just a two book.

[Joanna Coles]

Did you get one for yourself?

[Samantha Bee]

Horse placenta? Of course I did.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, just smother it Everywhere.

[Samantha Bee]

Great. I'm slugging. You know what slugging is, right?

[Joanna Coles]

No, what is slugging?

[Samantha Bee]

It's when you put grease all over your face like a slug. And then you go to bed and you grease up your sheets.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay. So I will tell you that I got a gift this week from the friend of one of my sons who's gone into the beauty business, and he's created a beauty product. He sent me two tubs. I'm going to bring one in.

[Samantha Bee]

You.

[Joanna Coles]

I'm wondering if you can smell it from here.

[Samantha Bee]

What is it?

[Joanna Coles]

Do I smell different? Does the studio feel different? It's.

[Samantha Bee]

Well, now that you mention it. Hold on. I'm intoxicated by my own scent this morning, so it's hard for me to.

[Joanna Coles]

Tell, but you're looking very lady, by the way.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you.

[Joanna Coles]

Oddly, maybe we're dressing in sink. It's kind of strange.

[Samantha Bee]

What are you. What are you. What are you. I have.

[Joanna Coles]

I see. Smothered on me or slugging or whatever you call it.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

A new cream called Boom. B U H m. I think of B H U m, which is actually made from.

[Samantha Bee]

Huh? Oh.

[Joanna Coles]

RFK Junior's favorite substance, beef tallow.

[Samantha Bee]

So I guess they've tried to take the.

[Joanna Coles]

They've tried to take the scent out of it. It still smells. Jamie, I'm talking to you. It still smells a little bit beefy, but I actually.

[Samantha Bee]

Yeah, it's.

[Joanna Coles]

It does actually seem to leave your skin feeling soft.

[Samantha Bee]

So your question to me really was, do you smell meat?

[Joanna Coles]

Yes.

[Samantha Bee]

Do you smell meat? Yeah, I don't smell meat.

[Joanna Coles]

Good.

[Samantha Bee]

So I'll try to get a little. I'll try to get a little closer.

[Joanna Coles]

Absorb the smell.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow. I want to. I want to smear myself with. With beef. That sounds wonderful.

[Joanna Coles]

I will bring you in the tub next week. Also, are we, I think, addressed particularly well, we're dressed very corporate lady today.

[Samantha Bee]

Got tea with the OG we do with Gloria Steinem.

[Joanna Coles]

With Gloria Steinem later. Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

That's pretty exciting. We did kind of do a lady thing, which reminds me that someone indicated someone suggested to us in last yesterday, I think that we should make a video and apply to be on the Amazing Race.

[Joanna Coles]

That's an excellent idea.

[Samantha Bee]

And the fact that we're just.

[Joanna Coles]

I've never watched it, but I'm happy.

[Samantha Bee]

To apply just like tonally kind of dressing as twinsies. Makes me think that it could really work.

[Joanna Coles]

We should totally do that.

[Samantha Bee]

We should.

[Joanna Coles]

And we should say if anybody sees Andrew Cuomo out on the campaign trail today, they should take a photo and send it to us because he's told us he's ill, which is why he's not sitting there.

[Samantha Bee]

He told us he was ill, so he better be ill. Yeah, because if.

[Joanna Coles]

He'S out shaking hands, oh my God.

[Samantha Bee]

If he's out at a sparrow eating a pizza slice with a knife and fork for many, many reasons. Someone needs to photograph that and let us know.

[Joanna Coles]

Should we invite Huey Docherty on to talk to us about what on earth is going on at Mar a Lago, the White House and Tiananmen Square?

[Samantha Bee]

Tell me everything.

[Joanna Coles]

Hugh.

[Samantha Bee]

Get the hell in here.

[Joanna Coles]

We're going to take a quick break before we talk to the Daily Beast Executive Editor Hugh Doherty.

[Samantha Bee]

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[Joanna Coles]

Welcome back. We're joined now by our executive editor, Hugh Docherty. Hughie, every time you join us, the world just gets crazier and crazier. Can you be our finance bro for a minute? Do you need a Patagonia vest? You always look so smart in your suit. And as we say in the office, they talk to the jacket, they talk to the shirt, they talk to the jacket, they talk to the tie. Michael Daly says that they talk to the tie, which is why we try and encourage our interns to look smart. Liam, I'm thinking about you. Can you help us decipher the stock market? And what on earth is going on?

[Hugh Doherty]

I can say to you, Joanna, Sam, thank you for having me here. Crack open a Pilsner down 20 pills, knock back a cappuccino and get ready for a wild ride.

[Joanna Coles]

How much wilder can it get?

[Samantha Bee]

I just got a knot in my neck and I can feel it. It's like an egg that costs $18, that's imported.

[Hugh Doherty]

And therefore it will go up by 26%. Yeah, the stock market is going on broadly. It's been on its way down and we're recording this on Liberation Day plus seven for those who are.

[Joanna Coles]

It's been.

[Hugh Doherty]

And there's been five days of trading and the stock market has lost, as we all know, quite a lot of value. And even on the way down, it looks a bit like a heart rate monitor, but not in a good way.

[Joanna Coles]

Right. A heart rate monitor that's literally monitoring a heart attack. And you're not sure if they're going.

[Samantha Bee]

To survive Liberation Day. So we've all been liberated from sleeping.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, your hair looks very good. Thank you so much to interrupt, but we have to gave it a choice, small things.

[Samantha Bee]

I gave it a little fluff yeah.

[Joanna Coles]

It looked very good.

[Hugh Doherty]

We have to live in. We have to live. We have to live in the moment.

[Joanna Coles]

Because there is nothing else. Also, Donald Trump lives in the moment.

[Hugh Doherty]

Well, Donald Trump is the one person who doesn't seem to be having a heart attack about this. He has tweeted things like, be cool and good time to buy.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes. And Hank tough.

[Hugh Doherty]

And Hank tough.

[Samantha Bee]

Hank Tough every day.

[Joanna Coles]

Don't be a panican.

[Samantha Bee]

Don't be a panican. I don't. I truly don't understand that one.

[Hugh Doherty]

We don't yet know of anybody who's literally a panican. See if it's a genetically modified version of a Republican and a pelican. But Trump is trying to look unbothered. He is looking unbothered.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

He is giving long speeches and he's talking about how this is what he intended. And there are people in MAGA who are saying, this is great. This is what they voted for. Now, did everybody who voted for Trump vote for that? It's not looking that way.

[Joanna Coles]

Nobody knows anything. It is that wonderful William Goldman expression, which Derek Thompson actually used to describe this in the Atlantic this week. It's chaos. It's chaos. It's chaos. And the thing that I find very amusing is the idea that Trump strutting around saying, oh, every single country, every single world leader is calling me. And you realize that his. His obsession with being the center of attention and driving attention is now global. And I remember Michael Wolf saying this to me, you know, the author of all or Nothing. It's like you build up a tolerance to alcohol or caffeine. He builds up a tolerance to the amount of attention he needs, and he needs it now on a global scale, and he's got it. And he claims that world leaders are calling him, you know, 50 world leaders called because they need his attention.

[Samantha Bee]

Do we think that that is true? Doesn't feel. That does not ring true to me. But do you. Are you hearing that?

[Joanna Coles]

That's true Way of knowing.

[Hugh Doherty]

We're seeing there's something in that direction. Joanna, you mentioned Michael Wolff, and I feel duty bound to mention the White House always, when Michael Wolfe is mentioned, describes him as a lang sack of excrement.

[Joanna Coles]

It's true. They do. But he does talk to a lot of people there.

[Hugh Doherty]

He absolutely talks to a lot of people. And one of the things that's very clear is that they might not be speaking to world leaders. They are speaking to each other, and they are feuding with each other, and the feuding is dominating what's going on.

[Joanna Coles]

In D.C. so what are the camps? We've got Elon versus Peter Navarro. And Elon, I mean, was xing or tweeting on Saturday. He's since deleted his tweets, which is always amusing when they do that too. You just feel this sense of men out of control. The women have completely retreated apart from Susie Wiles versus Laura Loomer. But Melania's not there, Ivanka's not there. Even Tiffany is not there anymore.

[Hugh Doherty]

If I can quote the White House press secretary here, Caroline Levitt said, boys will be boys. And that's what appears to be happening. There are a lot. There are rival camps. And quite how they divide up is, you know, it's like one of those. It's like squid game or something. Suddenly one of the camps is just very moving. So Elon Musk is without doubt a free trader. He's not in favor of tariffs, and he's been very clear about that. He's also not in favor of the trade advisor, Peter Navarro, who is very much in favor of tariffs. And that's exploded into the open on X and on television. Peter Navarro is a consistent television performer. And he's himself an unusual background for a Republican. He was a very left wing, left of center Democrat. He's got Harvard PhD and. And he is an unusual character who's not described as somebody that is credible by other aides from the first Trump administration. He then went to prison for defying an order to testify in front of Congress. When in prison, he boned up on tariffs. He watched CNBC round the clock, and he came out refreshed, renewed, and ready to fight China. On the other side of this equation.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm writing that sentence down. When in prison, he boned up on tariffs. I'm actually writing that down because that is just so emblematic of this administration.

[Joanna Coles]

That you get a lot of time to.

[Samantha Bee]

When in prison, you can get boned up on tariffs.

[Hugh Doherty]

You know, if you're rounded up, you've got to make yourself.

[Samantha Bee]

I'm never gonna forget that you said this. Okay, go ahead. Sorry.

[Joanna Coles]

You bone up on your tariffs.

[Samantha Bee]

That's what you do. Thank you.

[Hugh Doherty]

It does look like Peter Navarro and Elon Musk have gone at it in public behind the scenes. Our national correspondent, David Gardner and his Unmissable Swamp email newsletter, which I would urge everybody to subscribe to to find out about the secrets of Deep Seed. He's got a story about Howard Lutnick, and Howard Lutnick has been out there like nobody else, talking about tariffs and talking about how this is going to bring trade and manufacturing back to the United States. As the Swamp reports, people are beginning to tire of this inside Trump circles. And Lutnick told an audience of high powered executives that he speaks truth to power. And the reaction that we heard from a source inside the circles was only if he says what the powerful want to hear and they mean Donald Trump. So he's in one camp. Peter Navarro is with him, but they would certainly be willing to split if that was needed. Elon Musk is another. And Scott Besant is almost in a fourth camp that he is out there pushing the case for tariffs. He says that they're non negotiable but that there can be negotiation. And I would invite, I would invite you to try and follow that logic, Sam, maybe you need to bone up on how you can be when in prison.

[Samantha Bee]

She boned up on tariffs.

[Joanna Coles]

I love the idea that Howard Lutnick is saying a, he's one of the few to speak truth to power and also that he hired Elon and told Elon what to do.

[Hugh Doherty]

Yes, that's another revelation that's in the Swamp this week that he described himself as hiring Elon. And I think we can all guess that really Trump would say that he's hired Elon. And there's only one star in Trump world and I doubt that Elon would regard himself as being hired in any.

[Joanna Coles]

Way and certainly not by Howard Lutnick.

[Hugh Doherty]

Elon has net worth, even though it's coming down this week of about 150 times that of Howard Lutnick. So when it comes to billionaires competition.

[Samantha Bee]

It'S got a cushion. It's got a bit of a cushion. It seems like the only person who everybody should be talking to right now is Laura Loomer.

[Joanna Coles]

Laura Loomer.

[Samantha Bee]

Laura Loomer.

[Joanna Coles]

Laura Loomer is back. And I thought the whole point of someone like Susie Wiles, who were, you know, constantly being told is the one that is running the place with great discipline was supposed to keep Laura Loomer out of there and somehow Laura Loomer got back into the White House.

[Samantha Bee]

Elbows up. Susie Wiles. Elbows up.

[Hugh Doherty]

Well, Laura Loomer and Susie Wiles have both said that they like each other, but they haven't both said that they want each other to be in the same place. And Laura Loomer, just to give everybody a quick recap of her career, she's been a 911 truther, she's been a vocal Trump supporter. She's an unsuccessful run as the Republican candidate for the district that Mar? A Lago is in because she wanted to be Trump's own congresswoman.

[Joanna Coles]

And that's ambition for you?

[Hugh Doherty]

It is ambition. And she now is trying to get a government contract to do security, background security and background checks on new hires, but she's been freelancing at that. Anyway, she went in to see Trump on Liberation Day. I'll just remind you of that great day when we were liberated, Sam. After he liberated the world or America or people from their 401ks, he went inside and he met Laura Loomer and he listened to her reservations about some senior people in the National Security Council, and they were liberated from their employment at the National Security Council as a result. So Laura Loomer's gone in and given this display of power, and Susie Wiles, who is known to oppose Laura Loomer in all shapes and forms, has been powerless to stop it. So there's a real sense of this discipline that Susie Wiles was supposed to bring. Beginning to crack at the edges. And Elon Musk tweeting or xing that Peter Navarro is, among other things, a moron and dumber than a sack of bricks. And even a fairly horrible slur shows that there's a. There's a beginning of the end, perhaps, of Susie Wiles appearance of power.

[Samantha Bee]

We've just been liberated from all reason.

[Joanna Coles]

It's just tethers. He doesn't show any stress because he's at the center of attention, and that's what fuels him and gives him energy.

[Samantha Bee]

And he's the star of the TV show.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah, he's the star of the show.

[Samantha Bee]

And that feels great.

[Joanna Coles]

Every time I walk past Hugh's office, I can hear Donald Trump's voice just booming out of one of the four televisions that's on.

[Samantha Bee]

I hate to say that every time we talk about them, I get a stomachache, but I do. I actually get a cramp on my stomach.

[Joanna Coles]

It's just.

[Hugh Doherty]

Well, it's lucky that pharmaceuticals aren't being tariffed yet, Sam.

[Samantha Bee]

Yet. I gotta go stock up on Rolaids.

[Hugh Doherty]

The ones that'd be made in China are. And Trump has promised special pharmaceutical tariffs as well. So enjoy your French face cream while you can.

[Joanna Coles]

Joanne. I'm. I'm going to be using it in tiny quantities.

[Hugh Doherty]

You might have. You might have to pay Sam a tariff just for giving you that.

[Samantha Bee]

That's just going to be me on the subway. Just like hoovering pills of all different shapes and sizes.

[Joanna Coles]

It's. It's a.

[Hugh Doherty]

Showing them while they're cheap.

[Joanna Coles]

All right. Hugh, thank you so much for coming in and and whipping Sam up into a frenzy.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes, thank you.

[Hugh Doherty]

Thank you for having me.

[Joanna Coles]

More to come. We're going to take a quick break before we come back and talk to the White Lotuses Executive producer, Dave Bernard.

[Ryan Reynolds]

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[Joanna Coles]

We're back and we're joined by the executive producer of the show of the week, the month, the year, the White Lotus. Dave Bernard is also the executive producers of huge hits like the Brilliant Jewelry Duty Superstore and White House Plumbers. And we are so lucky he was able to come and answer all of our most pressing questions. We're also joined for the first time, he's making his POD debut. And we're sharing. We're sharing middle schoolers on the subway. Middle schoolers. We're sharing our headphones. Kevin Fallon, who is the Beast's obsessed editor, and he is obsessivo about the White Lotus. Dave, is there any merch you can send us? Because we do feel like we need some merch.

[Samantha Bee]

We're very dedicated fans over here.

[Hugh Doherty]

I'm going to. Yes, Joanna, give me your. Give me the address. I'll send you guys something.

[Joanna Coles]

Okay.

[Hugh Doherty]

I want to say, though, I'm a little offended you didn't mention our hit show, the Bold Type.

[Samantha Bee]

I was going to ask you how you know each other. So you. Okay, so you worked on the Bold Type together. So you've known each other for.

[Joanna Coles]

We've known each other for a long time. Dave is one of my closest friends, I would say. And over the years, we have given each other endless dating advice. Is that fair, Dave?

[Hugh Doherty]

It's fair.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Has it been good advice? Is a big question.

[Joanna Coles]

Dave is my plus one when I'm in la.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, fantastic.

[Joanna Coles]

Well, when he's not on a full season show, that is. When he's not. Yeah.

[Samantha Bee]

Dave, I'm so sad that the show is over. I actually don't know what to do with myself weeping. That's all this. Please tell me that you're already. That you're already in progress with. I know you're not already in progress with the next season, but I want you to be so badly so that I can watch it again really fast.

[Joanna Coles]

I think he probably is.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay.

[Hugh Doherty]

We are. I mean, spiritually, we're. I think we're. Spiritually, we're gonna take a little break and then this is. I mean, as you notice, I have no voice, which is probably a result of, you know, the stress of season three. But we'll be getting back into it very soon.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay. Okay. God bless.

[Joanna Coles]

Do I do need to be an extra? I'm so annoyed because Dave said to me when they were doing the one in Italy, he. He said, come down. You can be an extra. You can sit in all the background shots. And I didn't do it, and I don't know why I didn't do it.

[Ryan Reynolds]

He'll take you to the next one when it's in, like, the snow mountains of Switzerland or something.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Where is the next one going to be shot, Dave?

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Hugh Doherty]

Don't know yet. But I would be. I would bet A lot of money. It won't be in the snow because Mike White does not like the cold. But you never know. Anything's possible. Yeah, we. We're not sure yet where the next season will be.

[Joanna Coles]

You know what?

[Samantha Bee]

I heard Scott Galloway's voice in this season of the White Lotus. So, Joanna, that's gonna be you next time.

[Joanna Coles]

I hope so. I hope so. Well, where do we begin? So many questions.

[Samantha Bee]

So many questions. What. Okay, what does that. First of all, what does it feel like to be at the center of something that everyone is talking about? Have you lost your voice because you were screaming from partying so hard?

[Hugh Doherty]

I wish. I wish it was that interesting now. I. Yeah. So, I mean, it's a shock, truly, that, you know, that people have embraced the show in the way they have and kind of. We started with a very humble beginning. So it was kind of this Covid experiment, and I think at one point, they even wanted us to shoot it kind of like on Zoom and nobody in the same room. And it started kind of very small. And so Sunday night, for the finale, HBO put together this. This kind of finale event. And I was there, and it was truly surreal. Like, you know, a room of a thousand people watching the finale.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow.

[Hugh Doherty]

Panel. And would never, ever have guessed this is where the show would end up.

[Samantha Bee]

Right. I have my own. I had a very specific theory about how this season was gonna end, and I shared it with Joanna, and I'm glad to say that I was wrong, but I thought that a tsunami was pretty nihilist. It was totally nihilistic. I thought that all of the storylines would resolve and then a tsunami would come and kill everybody. And that was my version of that.

[Joanna Coles]

Is so dark.

[Samantha Bee]

Isn't that dark?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. You're a catastrophist.

[Samantha Bee]

I am a catastrophe.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It feels darker than the actual finale was.

[Samantha Bee]

I know, I know. Know this really speaks to how. Who I am as a person. What comes first for you? Is it the location or is it the idea? Like, what is the first step in the next iteration of the show?

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah, I think it's theme is always the first idea. And I think, you know, season two, we knew we. It was gonna be more about the sexual politics of men and women. And so as we kind of were. We took a step back. We knew we wanted to do Europe, and kind of where thematically, would that make sense? France? Italy. So we went and scouted both France and Italy, and then we found. We just found a hotel we fell in love with in Taormina and Sicily, and I Think. And then organically, you know, the real story is that Mike and I were. We were in Palermo in Sicily, and we were on a tour and we'd see. We'd seen all these heads everywhere and these kind of like. It's like a head of a Moorish. A Moorish soldier. And we asked the tour guide, like, what are these heads? And they told us this very interesting story about this soldier who had come to Sicily and was having an affair with this Sicilian woman. And then she finds out that he has a wife and family back home, so she chops his head off. And that's what those heads kind of represent. This is like this intense jealousy. And so it was like a perfect way into season two. In season three, we knew it was going to be about Eastern philosophy and religion. And so we kind of were focused on, you know, Japan and Thailand and.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

And as we kind of went around Thailand and kind of fell in love with just kind of, you know, the Buddhism, the people, and the real story, which we've talked about in the press already, which is we were in the north of Thailand, and Mike in Thailand is a very witchy place. Like, you kind of feel it as you're there, and especially in the north. And Mike had gotten sick. He got bronchitis, and he went to the hospital and it was on this thing called a nebulizer. It's a really strong steroid. And he basically was up for two nights and he hallucinated the season. And I saw him the next morning, the scalp van, and he basically said, I had this vivid hallucination. And that is, you know, pretty much what we shot was his nebulizer.

[Joanna Coles]

I need that nebulizer.

[Samantha Bee]

Wow.

[Joanna Coles]

I need that nebulizer now. You need to. You need to bottle that and sell.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It, because branding on it, white lotus.

[Joanna Coles]

Branding, everybody's going to have that in Silicon Valley. Everybody will be nebulized.

[Samantha Bee]

That's how we imagine every episode of this podcast. We try to hallucinate it the night before, and then it just comes to life.

[Joanna Coles]

So did you become more spiritual when you were there?

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah, I mean, it's hard not to. I think I was there for, you know, 11 months, almost a year. And I think just Buddhism as a. As a practice, as a religion is a very beautiful idea. And it's such a gentle culture, you know, non violent in this idea of there's an acceptance, I think, that is that Thailand is known for. And a lot of that kind of permeates out of Buddhism. And so I think being there for that Long and kind of, you know, especially on the. You're on the other side of the world. And so when you wake up, everyone, you know is falling asleep. So most of your day is spent alone without, you know, without your phone, communicating with people. And. And so I think there's a lot of time for existential, you know, thought and exploration, and that's really what the show is about, obviously, this season. And. And so I think. I think everyone had their own experience, and it was a weird thing going on this season. You know, a lot of us had various health issues during the season, and we all, at some point, ended up in the hospital. I ended up in the hospital. And so I think a lot of the cast ended up in the hospital and very weird kind of random stuff. And. And so I think it was that, plus just being in a very spiritual place for that long, it was impossible not to have some sort of deep, deeper kind of conversation with yourself, which is what the show, the season really is about. It's about identity and the prison that we find ourselves in and that we create for ourselves. And each character is kind of working through their own kind of prison of their identity.

[Samantha Bee]

I think what I love about it is that every moment. There's no moment wasted in the show. Everything is so intentional. And even the way that. Because I. Because I really am just a huge fan, like, so I read, you know, I'm reading all the articles about it, and you all talk about it with. In such a. Grounded. In such a. In such a grounded reality. I understand that it's very grueling to make a TV show, and the way that you're all talking about it is helping me to understand it. And I actually really appreciate. Because I don't like it when people come back from set and they're like, we're all best friends. And everything was perfect, and it was just like a great big vacation. We all learned to surf. Like, I like talking about things. I like knowing what the work is like. And you've been in the news because your composer is having such an interesting. I'm sorry to bring this up, but, like, your musical composer is saying things about the show that are shocking to me, actually. Like, it seems like there was conflict there. Can you talk about that? Can you describe that a little bit?

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah, I mean, you know, that's a really. You know, that's. You know, him doing that interview kind of blindsided us, to be honest.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

Anytime you're. You're taking on a creative venture, there's. There's creative Conversations.

[Samantha Bee]

Sure.

[Hugh Doherty]

I mean, what was so surprising for us was that there was nothing interesting that happened in that experience other than us giving notes to a collaborator, which is the process in every creative venture. And Mike White, who's a true genius, and not only is he a creative genius, but he's the most kind.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

Awful collaborator there is. And as someone who kind of was there for every moment of that experience with our composer, you kind of read this interview, and I'm like, what the fuck is this guy talking about?

[Samantha Bee]

What the hell?

[Hugh Doherty]

Genuinely. Because, like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? And Mike could not have been more thoughtful in how he approached Christo, who, of course, Christo is a incredibly talented person. And I think what. You know, Mike did an interview yesterday. I think he put it best. You realize, this guy thought we were a bunch of morons and respect us. And I think in his interview, he refers to me as a hysterical producer.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That's you.

[Samantha Bee]

That's you.

[Hugh Doherty]

The entire process of trying to make the show in post with Christo was one of trying to kind of, like, you know, pulling teeth and having to kind of resist any urge of getting worked up because he just would not listen to us and actually treat us like we were morons.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

And if the show was for him, like, as if he created the show, we were just off spending two years making the show. That's so he could. You know, it's all about his genius.

[Samantha Bee]

Right, Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

He made it all about himself. And it's funny. It's just, like. Feels like a very petty, like, high school conversation. And in fact, the New York Times is writing about it in, like, the midst of, like, an economic meltdown.

[Samantha Bee]

Sure.

[Hugh Doherty]

I don't. It was kind of confusing, but, you know, it was kind of hurtful because I think we went out of our way to kind of be good collaborators to him, who was never a good collaborator to Mike or us. And. And I just want to say one thing about it, which I think, you know. You know, and obviously, we're fortunate that people even care to write about something that is so not interesting. There's nothing interesting that happened in that story other than Christo had one point of view, we had another point of view. He left. We fired him. Like, you know, whatever the he said, she said is, is that, you know, it all comes down to this idea of, like, you know, the theme song, which people were so excited about. And really what happened in the third season is Christo presents a song to us that was very different from the first two seasons. My Theory on that is the second season. Sorry, this sounds so paisy. It sounds so uninteresting.

[Samantha Bee]

I think it's interesting. I think it's very interesting.

[Hugh Doherty]

So second season, the song wasn't nominated for an Emmy because it was unable to be nominated for an Emmy because it was too similar to season one. There's very specific rules. And then if the theme song is similar, so it's the same theme song can't win for multiple seasons. So it was this whole issue. We fought, you know, we were there and we were fighting with. With the academy to get it nominated. It wasn't nominated. So he presents in the third season a song that is completely different from the first two seasons.

[Samantha Bee]

Right.

[Hugh Doherty]

We gave notes, he made adjustments, and finally he's like, this is what I want it to be. So we send it to hbo. HBO did not like it. They have thoughts. And, you know, I think there was this desire to make it similar to the first two seasons, which people obviously responded to, which Christo refused to do. And so ultimately what happened, Mike and I talked about it and HBO and it caused me a lot of drama. Like, I got into a lot of fights with HBO about it. And ultimately we said, Christo as an artist has earned the right to make the theme song what he wants it to be. So then I on email wrote to thristo and said, hbo's notes, here are their notes, here are thoughts. But you have earned the right to make the theme song whatever you want to make it. He responded basically that they don't know what they're talking about, blah, blah, blah. We said, great. So that was a song that we went forward with. And something's been confused in this conversation, which, which for me I take personally because, you know, people are attacking Mike or writing these articles that Mike, we had nothing to do with the theme song as Christo's arena and we as collaborators respect Christo as an artist and said, great, this is what you want. We support you. Right, Right. So that is why the theme song in season three changed. That is what Kristo wanted. And then at some point the song comes out and there's a negative response. And Christo calls me and says, hey, I have a great idea. I'm gonna give people what they want. Here's, you know, a two and a half minute song, blah, blah, blah. And we spoke about it internally and we said, you know what? That's. We're not going to just change it because people are complaining. That feels like not a. Feels like a weak move. Right? So we said, no, we're going to stick with the theme song that we presented. And eventually people grew to love it. And that's, you know, that's how we are now. But just to say it, like, I'm very defensive of Mike. And I was there, I loved every experience. And he's a fucking asshole to, like, go out in the press and make it all about himself where there's a thousand people who've worked really hard to, you know, to make this show and the finale is coming out and he's trying to, like, trash us in the press and drag us for no reason. We. We never spoke about it. We never talked about firing him. We never talked about the drama of the. Of changing. We never blamed him. We never talked about him. We never talked about how he was a fucking asshole during the whole process. And then he just kind of, for whatever reason, did multiple interviews trying to trash us.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Well, this is the perfect time for the two of you to do the Oo Lulu.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Hugh Doherty]

You know, obviously, like, you know, in hindsight, yes, it would have been great to have all that in the theme song, but it comes down to Christo as an artist, earned the right to make the song he wanted to make. And we, we support him. I should have saved all that for your therapist. I appreciate you listening.

[Ryan Reynolds]

We love to be a therapist for. For you. Like, that's our, our biggest dream.

[Hugh Doherty]

You can tell it's personal to me.

[Ryan Reynolds]

My biggest question for you, because I've counted and we've written in over 100 stories about the White Lotus for the Daily Beast issue.

[Joanna Coles]

Wow.

[Ryan Reynolds]

So my first question is, what is your check of the clear for that? But also, I know you've also experienced with jury duty and what is it like when a show that you maybe never expected to be this kind of water cooler thing that the New York Times is interviewing this composer and you're now speaking to this about what is it like when that happens at the show that. That was just a small thing that you felt really deeply about, explodes in this way.

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah, it's very surreal that, that, you know, and I think Mike and I, you know, we're both used to making shows or movies that are made, you know, critics love and they really find this wide audience even like they show the bull type that Joanna and I made. You know, that was a great. You know, I'm very proud of that show. And critics loved it and never had a massive audience. And. And that's, you know, that is. That's. That's nine times out of ten the experience. So for us, I think, you know, for both Jury Duty and y Lotus, it's. It's kind of, again, feels surreal. It feels like this little thing that you're. You're spending years of your life on, and it feels like this little secret that you have, and, you know, you can feel proud of it. And we've all worked on things that we think are great and find an audience for whatever reason. So when you have the good fortune, the universe kind of comes together and people find the thing that you really believe in. It's. You know, you feel incredibly grateful, but also, you know, it feels surreal. And so sometimes you feel defensive when, you know you're being attacked in the New York Times. It's like, you know, it's like this. It's all the feelings.

[Samantha Bee]

It's a compliment, though, that everyone just wants to write everything they possibly can because they're just so obsessed with the showroom. Was like, what more can I write?

[Joanna Coles]

What more can I do?

[Ryan Reynolds]

How do you keep from, like, making yourself a suicide smoothie from Timothy Ratliff when people complain about things like, nothing's happened this season or it's going slow? I mean, I can't imagine more things happening than actually happened in this season. So, like, what is that like for you to hear those complaints?

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah, I mean, I hate this term, but I'm going to use it. It feels like you're being gaslit because you're like, I was in a car with someone the other day, and I was talking to my friend. I go, what do you mean nothing's happening? Like, season one, literally nothing happens other than a robbery in the fifth episode. That's all that happens.

[Ryan Reynolds]

It was Cuddy Breakfast Breakfast, and I loved it. Like, I would watch that for years.

[Hugh Doherty]

And I love it. I said to my friend the other day, I go, nothing happens. Two brothers jerk each other off. One friend has sex with the other friend's love interest, and then the other friend goes home with a Russian guy and then almost gets beat up. You know, like, it's like. It feels like. It feels confusing, but again, it's better than nobody talking about the show and nobody caring. So I think, like, you know, I think Mike and I have each other in those moments to kind of call each other and kind of go, you know. But again, you know, we're incredibly proud of the show. And I think the thing, too, is, like, you spend all this time and you dedicate your life, and I think what people don't realize that, you know, Mike especially has Dead. He works on the. Seven days a week. And it's. It is his entire life. And he. He's gone, and we're both gone for a year and a half, two years, and. And you want people, and you're trying to say something, I think, especially with White Lotus, and. And there's a real intention behind everything, and you just want it to land. You want people to kind of feel that. And, you know, and sometimes they don't. Sometimes they do. And, you know, as artists, I guess you have to. You have to live with that.

[Samantha Bee]

You know, what show I really miss Mike's is. I don't know him at all, but Enlightenment.

[Joanna Coles]

Enlightened Enlightenment.

[Ryan Reynolds]

The gay fan base for enlightened is we hold it up, we cherish it, we rage with it.

[Samantha Bee]

A jewel box.

[Joanna Coles]

Similarly, the thing I find interesting is that neither Dave nor Mike have become assholes themselves. It's so often you see friends on this trajectory, and they hit big, and then they become monsters. Neither of you are monsters, and that's hugely important. And then the other thing I think is that it's. I think, the only show I can think of recently that's actually had people watching in real time. Like, people I knew were like, what are you doing on. On Sunday night? We're sitting down. Yeah, it's back. And it shows you the craving for a communal experience and how few shows actually have the pulling power to do that.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Yeah, I had friends who were texting me, like, I'm running late. I'm gonna miss 9pm I'm like, it's fine. But it's crazy that this is now come full circle. We're back to that. Like, you have to be watching it live.

[Samantha Bee]

We need it. Carrie's monologue at the end sent me and Sam Rockwell. You know, they're just, like, moments that stand out.

[Joanna Coles]

We must talk about Sam Rockwell. That was such genius casting, and there's been all sorts of stuff out there that Woody Harrelson was supposed to have the role. Thank goodness you gave it to Sam Rockwell. Just tell us about that.

[Hugh Doherty]

I just. I want to clarify that also, like, Woody Harrelson's the best. He's a friend of ours. He's great, and he would have been amazing the part. But really, just. Just to. Just to make sure it's clear, we had a closed deal with Woody. We were doing it with Woody. Our scheduled move twice. Woody had a birthday party that he had moved twice. That was his family, great friends, and it was in Europe. And it got to the point where basically he's like, all these people have moved their lives twice and I'm so sorry, but I just can't do this to them again and I can't do the show. So that's why it didn't work out with Woody. And, you know, Sam is, Sam's amazing. Sam and I and Mike did a movie. We did a movie 20 years ago called Gentlemen Broncos. So we had known Sam for a long time and it was just a coincidence that Leslie Bibb, his partner, was in the show this season. So as soon as we knew that Woody couldn't do it, we, you know, Sam was our first idea and he was in South Africa doing a movie. And his agent, Rhonda Price, who's amazing, and she was like, you know, he, he, he, Sam is someone who really loves to prepare and he won't do anything half assed. So, you know, she's like, I don't know if there's enough time for him to do it because he wants a prepare. And he's like, we'll send it to him. So he read it and then he sends us this long voice note to Mike and I and he's like, love it, blah, blah, blah. But I don't think there's enough time. So I don't think I can do it. And we're like, we're not going to let him pass. We're like, great, great, great, great. Just keep thinking about it. And then he's like, yeah, I'm not sure. We're like, great, great, great. Just keep thinking about it. And eventually I think that monologue and that character got so in his head that he's like, okay, I have to do it. So he really kind of, you know, to Sam's credit, I think he went out of his comfort zone in terms of having the time to prepare. And I think there was only like a week or two between finishing that movie and coming to Thailand. And he came and he was so prepared and he's like, you know, could not be a better human being, could not be better to work with. And you know, we love Sam and he's, you know, brilliant in that scene.

[Ryan Reynolds]

I thank you for that scene. I thank you for that image of him in the leopard print underwear during that orgy part party. And I think for the Carrie Coon scene that Sam just mentioned, that was one of the most beautiful monologues about friendship.

[Joanna Coles]

Beautiful.

[Ryan Reynolds]

That I've ever seen on tv. I, I rewatched it, I think probably a dozen times since the finale aired. It's such a beautiful Beautiful monologue.

[Hugh Doherty]

Yeah. I mean, you know, Mike. Mike's a genius. And I think he. He just somehow he's an observer of the human condition, I think. And, you know, he's always paying attention. And I think that for me, you know, I've been working with Mike for a long time, and there's no one that captures the experience of what it is to be a human better than Mike. And I think that moment, you know, is very specific. And it's specific about the story of the season, but it's also universal. And I think we all have moments where we feel that way, where we're, you know, we've spent our energy and dedicated our lives to something, work, you know, family, whatever is. And then you kind of take stock of your experiences and you realize sometimes you're just. You're just happy to be there and be alive and kind of be able to experience it all.

[Joanna Coles]

Oh, my God, you really have gone Buddhist. Dave. You really. I'm hearing a different kind of Dave Bernat.

[Samantha Bee]

I mean, speaking of the human condition, and not to totally change the subject, but should Joanna and I go on the Amazing Race together?

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. We're thinking, should we do that?

[Samantha Bee]

I mean, it sort of makes sense.

[Hugh Doherty]

I'll take one of my life regrets. So Mike, When I, Mike and I first met each other 20 years ago, we, we, we started talking. One of the first conversations we had was about the Amazing Race. And then I eventually, I said to him, like, we should apply to the Amazing Race together. And we actually, we. We went out, we made a video. We were in jump matching blue velour jumpsuits running around Brentwood, acting like.

[Joanna Coles]

Running around Brentwood.

[Hugh Doherty]

What? Country narc. Editing the video. You know, I edited the video. We, we like, you know, like, we, we did like, we hand wrote the, our application. I went to El Segundo, I dropped it in like a box. Two weeks later, CBS calls us, and basically, long story short, I got recast eventually for Mike's dad. And 20 years later, it's one of my life regrets. I wish I had, like, fought for myself and went on the show, but you guys should definitely go. Mike went twice. Amazing seasons of tv, him and his dad. And I think it's. That's like one of the. When he talks about that experience, it's like, you know, I think it's on his bucket list of, you know, best experiences of his life was going on the race.

[Samantha Bee]

Okay, well, for. From your lips to God's ears, Joanna. Let's do it.

[Joanna Coles]

Yeah. Dave, I think you Have a doctor's appointment for your voice, so we have to let you go. But very grateful that you gave us the time that you did. And many congrats and looking forward to seeing you soon.

[Hugh Doherty]

Thank you. I want to say one last thing. Joanna, you're the best. I love you. I want to say I. I met Joanna randomly at a dinner. I don't know, was it 2014, 2015. I was, I was at home on my couch on a Wednesday night. My friend called me and he said, I'm going to. I'm going to dinner. You want to come join me at Soho House? I'm like, not really that interested. And he's like, I'm going with like 10 women. Yeah, I'll meet you. So I get my car, I drive over to Soho House, and I get seated next to Joanna, and within 10 sec, like 10 seconds of meeting her, she's asking me about my love life and like my sex life and these crazy questions. And I'm just like, this woman is gonna be my. We're gonna be friends for the rest of our lives. And, and so it's great to see all the things you're doing. Congratulations on everything and, and look forward to seeing you soon.

[Joanna Coles]

Good. All right, well, that's nice. Thank you, Dave. And so much fun. And, and I will say I went to Mike White, had a screening for his episode of Survivor at his house. And because we had had dinner a few times, but always in a small restaurant I imagine Mike lived in because he's such a humble guy, I thought, oh, he probably lives in a two bedroom apartment somewhere, you know, kind of in the site, you know, in Los Feliz or something. And we got to this magnificent house in Brentwood with beautiful Christmas decorations because it was, it was in December and the entire of the Hollywood glitterati was there. It was extraordinary, including Angelina with all her children climbing all over her.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh.

[Joanna Coles]

So that was, that was our. That was a fun day. Anyway, Dave, thank you very much and can't wait to hear what season four holds.

[Hugh Doherty]

Yes, thank you. Good to see you guys.

[Samantha Bee]

Foreign.

[Joanna Coles]

If you have been. Thank you for listening. If you enjoyed this podcast, please, like subscribe, comment and share it with everyone you know and everyone you don't know.

[Samantha Bee]

Everyone you know and don't know. I will not be here next week. Minder. I'm being. You're replacing me so swift to replace.

[Joanna Coles]

Me with Isaac Mizrahi.

[Samantha Bee]

Yes.

[Joanna Coles]

Who has a point of view on everything he does.

[Samantha Bee]

He's going to be my replacement for a day where, when, as I go off and do my show, just tell.

[Joanna Coles]

Us exactly what you're doing and why it's so important that you're missing the podcast.

[Samantha Bee]

We are talking about menopause. I'm doing my show, how to survive menopause in multiple cities, going on a brief tour.

[Joanna Coles]

So people are having menopause in other places.

[Samantha Bee]

I know it's hard to believe. Well, I'll bring it to them. I'll give it to you. I'll initiate. It's infectious.

[Joanna Coles]

You can. People would stay away because they might think it was infectious.

[Samantha Bee]

I think people will believe just about anything you tell them. Now, that's true.

[Joanna Coles]

Maybe you could have a vaccine like, you know, like the MMR vaccine. In fact, you could tell people MMR stands for menopause. Menopause repulsion.

[Samantha Bee]

Oh, my God. Don't forget to keep sending us those emails to beastpod@the dailybeast.com drop us a comment on YouTube. Joanna will get right back to you lickety split.

[Joanna Coles]

I didn't last week. I, I joined the ball last week. But I, I will go back. If you're not a subscriber to the Daily Beast, please subscribe. Just go to the Daily Beast.com yes, and as.

[Samantha Bee]

Thank you so much for today. This was a great bunch of conversations. I have a pit in my stomach.

[Joanna Coles]

But I have a white lotus.

[Samantha Bee]

You know, she, when she was in prison, she brushed up on tariffs.

[Joanna Coles]

Is there that it?

[Samantha Bee]

She bummed up on tariffs. I'll never forget. Just get out there. And as my muse is once again saying rather inspirationally, be best be beast, be. That's the one. I knew I got it wrong.

[Joanna Coles]

The Daily Beast podcast is produced by Sarah Demonkov, Sphere, Baron Reinstein, Jesse Cannon, and Sheamus Caulder, and it's edited by Deanna Chapman, an engineer by Jonny Simon.

[Samantha Bee]

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