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- [00:00]
Ad Host
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- [00:32]
Michael Wolff
Can't I just let it go?
- [00:32]
Ad Host
I wish I would stop thinking so much.
- [00:36]
Ad Host 2
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- [00:59]
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- [01:31]
Michael Wolff
The other night, night before last, my lawyers went into court and sued the First Lady. So it is now Michael Wolf versus Melania Trump. I I think the first is is is just to subpoena whoever might seem to be able to shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. And I think we'll be looking to subpoena various Epstein documents and that is another backdoor to begin to see materials from the so called Epstein files. Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were the closest of friends for nearly 15 years. Many of the conversations I had with Jeffrey Epstein were were precisely about this of Epstein talking about the real closeness, the intimacy of their relationship involved in every aspect of each other's lives. Social lives, sexual lives, business lives. As Epstein said, we were the same person. I know the secrets. And again to remind everyone of the first things Steve Bannon said, putting out his hand and shaking Jeffrey Epstein's hand was you were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign. Jeffrey Epstein knows the secrets. I think this lawsuit is an opportunity to reconstruct their lives together. Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein and then later Melania Trump would come along this is precisely what Donald Trump wants covered up. So bring it on.
- [03:26]
Interviewer
So, Michael, you had some big news this week, which you announced on your Instagram. MichaelWolfNYC, standing on the porch of your lovely 17th century Hamptons home with the stars and stripes.
- [03:41]
Michael Wolff
1829.
- [03:42]
Interviewer
1829. All right. With stars and stripes flapping behind you. Can you tell people who aren't following you on michaelwolfnyc.com and they certainly should be what you were actually announcing.
- [03:57]
Michael Wolff
And just let me say before that we're flying the flag because we can and we should, but also just to reclaim it. Trump has set out to take that flag away and he can't.
- [04:12]
Interviewer
Well, I think he set out to take it away from half of America.
- [04:15]
Ad Host 2
Right.
- [04:16]
Michael Wolff
He has taken it for his own use. His. It has become his own stage prop, and he can't do that. So it's our flag.
- [04:27]
Interviewer
Is the American flag flapping inside Trump's head?
- [04:30]
Michael Wolff
I think the stage set is inside Trump's head. And I've actually seen him walk onto the stage and he's very conscious of how many flags and how many flags is not enough and how many flags is too much. I mean, it is all. It is all stagecraft, which he is very good at, in which the American flag turns out to be very. A very useful supporting player. So we fly it on our porch, too.
- [05:04]
Interviewer
Okay, you're now making me think I should get an American flag for my deck. We should all. Everybody listening to this should reclaim the stars and stripes. It's a beautiful flag. And you're. You're going to start selling a lot of flags, Michael. You might. I'm surprised that Trump hasn't got a special Trump flag, actually, which has got a gold. There's got to be some gold in there. Maybe one of the stars becomes gold or maybe he, maybe he adds an extra star. A gold star for Trump.
- [05:37]
Michael Wolff
I'm horrified to say that from your mouth to Trump's ears. That might well be the case.
- [05:50]
Interviewer
Michael. Joanna, we had promised people that we would talk about Stephen Miller today and devote our entire episode to it. In fact, we have been superseded by events. We are going to talk about Stephen Miller towards the end of today's podcast. And then we're going to devote all being, well, events permitting, our podcast on Saturday to more Stephen Miller, because I know how many of you are interested in him and he's such an intriguing, weird character. But, Michael, don't. Why don't you tell us what you've been doing?
- [06:25]
Michael Wolff
I suppose we're in Lieu of talking about Stephen Miller, we're going to have to talk about me, which I have mixed feelings about.
- [06:34]
Interviewer
You've become the story.
- [06:36]
Michael Wolff
I'm not the only one who has faced these kinds of lawsuits. This has just become their trick in the book. We don't want this discussion to go on. How do we stop it? We threaten people with lawsuits for billions of dollars. So instead of wilting, instead of, of acquiescing. The other night, night before last, my lawyers went into court and sued the First Lady. So it is now Michael Wolf versus Melania Trump. And what we are suing for, there's. In New York State, there are a set of laws. They're called anti slap laws because this is what's called ace. Hers is the threat of a slap lawsuit, suing me for defamation on. In a situation where there is patently no defamation, but suing so that I will shut up. So instead, in a turning of the tables, a jujitsu move about what someone in the White House said to me this morning, well, no one saw that coming. We have sued the first lady and, and we will. And the, the importance of that is that it gives me subpoena power. I can subpoena the first lady, the president of the, her husband, the president, and anyone else who might shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. In other words, this might be a way to actually get to the bottom of this story, to open the curtain, the dark curtain, and we'll see how they feel about that.
- [08:35]
Interviewer
Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. So, Michael, what has the reaction been? I know this is the first time I think a First lady has ever faced herself with being sued.
- [08:50]
Michael Wolff
Well, there's a series of firsts here, which I think it's important to acknowledge. This is also the first time that a First lady or a president has actually reached out to sue people in the press for defamation. That's never happened before. Not least of all because according to the law, a president and a First lady really cannot be defamed. They're just, they're, they're public figures. They, they've put themselves out there in the land of free speech. We ought to be able to say literally anything about them. So that's, that's new and that's effective on their part. It's been incredibly effective. They sue the media, and the media goes quiet in. So this is again, apparently deeply unexpected to them, this turn of events, me suing them. And the response has been, I think, nothing less than, than incredible. An outpouring of Support on my. I made a short Instagram video about this. Constant incoming now. So, and I think people suddenly say, you know, oh, my God, you know, this, this, somebody's got to do it. In a sense, I would have preferred it would be someone else other than.
- [10:18]
Interviewer
Me, but because this is expensive and it's time consuming.
- [10:22]
Michael Wolff
Comes the moment, comes the man who's surprised by the moment, which would be me.
- [10:29]
Interviewer
And I'm going to refer people to your Instagram michaelwolfnyc, where there is all sorts of conversation about what happens next, in theory, how fast can you start deposing the first lady and the President?
- [10:45]
Michael Wolff
This is all new territory for me. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not certain. And they will obviously put up roadblocks. So this is going to have to be, this is a needle to be thread. And let me just say also, this is going to be an expensive needle and I'm going to have to reach out and we're starting to go fund me and, and, and all that in looking for support. Support is partly for me and what I'm going to have to shell out on this, but it is also to provide the wherewithal to haul these people into court. They can't do this. This is, dare I say, America.
- [11:35]
Interviewer
Well, it was America. And, you know, one's only got to look at the remarkable speed with which the East Wing is being demolished to see that this is not the America we knew. Donald Trump has put his own people in over what would normally be the commission that would slow any process like this down, make sure they were hitting every historical mark. So nothing of import was destroyed. He said the building was going to be adjacent to the East Wing. He said at one point in July nothing was going to be destroyed. Destroyed. And in fact, they've taken bulldozers and jackhammers to the East Wing and now they've hastily erected a fence so nobody can see what's actually going on. But it seems such a metaphor. And in fact, several people have commented on YouTube this morning and said, in fact, KL Ratholm says, I wonder if no Kings Day would have been much larger if this demolition had been more visible before this latest march. What do you think?
- [12:41]
Michael Wolff
I just want to say one thing that Trump in the White House says all the time to people, whenever people say, well, that's going to be a problem and maybe we shouldn't go that far, and we can't really do that, what he always says is, we have the power, we should use it. Which is kind of a terrifying thing, if you think about that, you know. And it turns out, yes, if you're the President of the United States, you do have the power and you can use it, but you're not supposed to. So this idea that you're not supposed to do this is kind of, you know, a tenant of American democracy and that has been falling. You're not supposed to tear down the White House. I mean, I mean, can it be more obvious than that? You're not supposed to do it. The People's House.
- [13:46]
Interviewer
Right, the People's House. And also Congress is supposed to stop you doing this or at least put the brakes on until every I has been dotted and every T has been crossed. And we're in a remarkable time where it seems the only people that are working are the demolition of people on the West Wing. And meanwhile, we're still in a shutdown. I think it's day 23. We're recording this.
- [14:09]
Michael Wolff
There is that, but I think that the broader, the broader point here is that Trump is looking for ways to marshal this power that he has, which again, that we might have, we might have been aware that the presidency has enormous powers, but that there was a built in mechanism not only for other branches of government and other agencies and other people of conscience to restrain this power, but that we're in this totally unexpected moment in which the President of the United States is not only intent on using it, but willing. Willing in ways that no one ever imagined again to tear down the White House. And let's be very clear about that. And I think one of the things that people are responding to is the pictures of that. It makes all the difference in a story. And in our business, we know this, when there are pictures, you get to literally see this. I mean, there are no pictures of Trump on a daily basis tearing down democracy, but there are now literal pictures of the wrecking ball taken to the White House.
- [15:47]
Interviewer
Well, the interesting thing is that Donald Trump is obviously an experienced construction person. He's been doing it all his life. And normally the first thing construction crews do is to build a fence around the area that they are deconstructing or demolishing so that, you know, people don't see it because it's often very unsightly. Here. They didn't bother to do that. The pictures came out. People were clearly very disturbed by them. And in fact, the fences only went up earlier this week. I'm wondering if that was a deliberate thing that they wanted people to see it, to understand that Donald Trump is unafraid. To wield power even in the form of a jackhammer and a bulldozer, or if it was just a mistake. I'm told that people who had access to the scene were told they were not allowed to share photographs of it or any kind of video. But do you think he deliberately allowed people to see what was going on to flex his power, or do you think it was just an oversight?
- [16:55]
Michael Wolff
There's another aspect of, when you're in the real estate and construction business and you want to demolish something, especially in New York, it is important to, you want to demolish before you're allowed to demolish or before the entire approval process is, is, is going through. Once you've demolished, it's demolished. That's the, that's you've changed the facts on the ground. So, and builders in New York do this all, all of the time. You do not want to give the opportunity to all of the various groups and commissions and citizens who might go to court and try to stop you. So you want the wrecking ball to get in there first. And I have a sneaking suspicion that's what happened. That's partly what happened here. There's no going back now. He has demolished it.
- [17:55]
Interviewer
There's no going back. You can't restore it. He has demolished it. And of course, yet again, a metaphor that this is where Melania Trump, the First lady, would normally have her office, except for the most part, she is not nowhere to be seen around the White House. So Michael, you're taking a book out of Trump's adviser Roy Cohn by always going on the attack here and suing the First Lady. What are the first kind of documents you're going to be looking for for them to produce or what kind of evidence are you expecting to find?
- [18:28]
Michael Wolff
I think the first is just to subpoena whoever might seem to be able to shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein. And I think we'll be, we'll be looking to subpoena various Epstein documents. And that, that is another backdoor to getting the, to opening, to being able to, to, to begin to see materials from the so called Epstein files. But, but mostly, you know, I, I think it's going to be interesting. Donald Trump and you know, you know, I mean this is an important, important point which I think it's, it's, I've made before, but to keep making that Donald Trump and Jeffrey Epstein were the closest of friends for nearly 15 years. Many of the conversations I had with Jeffrey Epstein were precisely about this of Epstein talking about the real closeness, the intimacy of their relationship involved in every aspect of each other's lives, social lives, sexual lives, business lives. You know, Epstein would say, I mean, is Epstein who said we were the same person? I know the secrets. And again, to remind everyone, and I've said this before, when Steve Bannon met Jeffrey Epstein, and I was standing there when this happened. Steve Bannon. The first thing Steve Bannon said, putting out his hand and shaking Jeffrey Epstein's hand was, you were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign. Jeffrey Epstein knows the secrets. So I think it is. This is. This lawsuit is an opportunity to reconstruct their lives together. Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, and then later, Melania Trump would come along. This is. This is precisely what Donald Trump wants covered up. So bring it on.
- [20:52]
Interviewer
And how do you think they will perform under deposition is the question?
- [20:57]
Michael Wolff
Will they tell the truth? Well, you know, they will try to avoid the truth. They will have weeks and weeks of preparation for deposition, for a deposition, but good lawyers will be able to triangulate the facts, and they're based on what someone else says. And you're looking to give. When you take a deposition, you're looking to give people no room to maneuver or little room to maneuver.
- [21:26]
Interviewer
And, of course, there are plenty of photographs of them all hanging out together. One thinks of the famous one with Jeffrey Epstein with his arm around Ghislaine, and then there is Melania, and then there's Donald Trump, and it's a quartet of them. And everybody has used that photo, and it's now an infamous photo.
- [21:45]
Michael Wolff
Ghislaine is obviously someone who might shed light on these matters.
- [21:52]
Interviewer
So do you think it's likely you will be deposing Ghislaine Maxwell?
- [21:56]
Michael Wolff
I think everybody who was involved in that circle during that time period will be. Is someone who will certainly think about calling.
- [22:07]
Interviewer
I'm thinking also of some of the tapes of Jeffrey Epstein that you had when you were talking to him at his house. He'd invited you in to write his biography. And he talked about how he and Donald Trump used to go to Atlantic City and hunt women together, and also about him talking about how Melania and Donald Trump first slept together on his plane.
- [22:35]
Michael Wolff
All of this, this is. I mean, this is kind of, you know, I think that the. There are many opportunities here, but it's. But one seems to be. To be bring Jeffrey Epstein back from the dead and let him have a conversation with Donald Trump. This is what he said. Let's see what Donald Trump says to.
- [22:58]
Interviewer
That it really is remarkable how he is able from beyond the grave to change the political narrative here in the States. And of course, this week we've got the publication of Virginia Giuffre's model, Nobody's Girl, which has kicked up a whole new conversation. Prince Andrew in the uk with whom she was photographed and who we know was a frequent visitor to Jeffrey Epstein, as was his wife, Sarah Ferguson. They have both been brought low by their association with him, by lying about their association with him. And now it looks as if Prince Andrew may be turfed out of Frogmore, which is his rent free residency from the Royal Family, as William gets ready to take the throne. So it's all very curious how one man can have such an impact over all sorts of world leaders. And of course, the hunt is on. Virginia Giuffre in Nobody's Girl talks about being raped by a Prime Minister. She doesn't name the Prime Minister. I'm not quite sure why not and I don't quite know why the why her ghostwriter, Amy Wallace, hasn't named him either. But there's now a hunt going on to understand who that was. Do you have any insight into who that might be?
- [24:26]
Michael Wolff
I've only ever met one former Prime Minister at Jeffrey Epstein's house. But having said that, now I'm thinking, were there, I mean, there were so many people at Epstein's house. Was there a. Was there, were there any inconsequential Prime Ministers that I might have met? And is there such a thing as an inconsequential Prime Minister?
- [24:53]
Interviewer
Well, it might depend on the country, I suppose.
- [24:55]
Michael Wolff
But the one Prime Minister I met, there was a consequential Prime Minister.
- [25:02]
Interviewer
That was Erhat Barak. Right, because you write about him in your book Too Famous, where he comes swanning in an immune, immediately starts asking for caviar. He's asked what he would like to eat and he very pointedly says he would love some caviar. And I think a hard boiled egg.
- [25:17]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And I have written about that and I am just. Let me rush to say that I have no knowledge that Ehud Barak has done anything wrong or that he had any relationship with any of the women around Jerusalem. Jeffrey Epstein, that is something I don't know. I do know, however, that Ehud Barak and Jeffrey Epstein were the closest of friends. And I know that Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the closest of friends.
- [25:51]
Interviewer
Epstein, Epstein, Epstein. Michael, hold on, we're just going to take some ads.
- [26:00]
Ad Host
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- [26:31]
Michael Wolff
Can't I just let it go?
- [26:35]
Ad Host 2
Take a breath. You're not alone. Counseling helps you sort through the noise with qualified professionals. Get matched with a therapist online based on your unique needs and get help with everyday struggles like anxiety or managing tough emotions. Visit betterhelp.com randompodcast for 10% off your first month of online therapy and let life feel better.
- [26:58]
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- [27:28]
Michael Wolff
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Interviewer
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Michael Wolff
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Michael Wolff
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Michael Wolff
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Michael Wolff
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- [28:01]
Interviewer
And back with Michael Wolff talking about all things Trumpian. So Michael, let's oh, I tell you what I do want to do. I want to let people know about something new that we're doing that we're rather excited about, which is our first live performance, which we are doing at the Museum of the City of New York. We're doing it on November 5, which is the day after the New York mayoral elections, which will be very interesting to see how that results. And I'm assuming we will have a result. But the two of us will be appearing live together, taking people's questions, talking about whatever will be going on by then. It's three weeks away, so goodness knows the world will have shifted. But if you're interested in coming to see us. We'll be talking at from 6:30 to 8 and it's, you can get tickets@mcny.org that's the Museum of the City of New York.orgmcny.org and we would love to see you. Okay, so Michael, we've been promising to talk about Stephen Miller for some time now. There is enormous interest about him. Where do we begin? And why don't you begin with Trump's description of Stephen Miller? How does he think of Stephen Miller? When you're inside Trump's head, what is he thinking about Stephen Miller?
- [29:28]
Michael Wolff
I know this principally from the first administration when Stephen Miller was regarded throughout the White House as an oddster.
- [29:39]
Interviewer
An oddster?
- [29:40]
Michael Wolff
Yes. And Trump used to talk about him that way and roll his eyes and in Crazy Stephen and Weird Stephen. He used to call him Weird Stephen. And I know, and I had asked to meet Stephen Miller once. I asked Bannon this, I said, you know, you know, I'd like to meet Miller who already had developed this, this, this, this reputation as way out there. And his, I mean, his family was already talking about him as, as, as, as a kind of, you know, that they had, that he had somehow lost, lost the plot of his, of his upper middle class Jewish family in Los Angeles. And, but any rate, so, and Bannon said, you really want to meet him? Are you sure? And I said, and I said, yeah. He said, okay. And this was in the Old Executive Office Building. So Bannon showed me into, into the small office that, that Miller occupied and we spent a little time together. And then when I came out and went back to Bannon, he said, he said, well, do you see what I mean? So everybody has this, this, this idea that Stephen Miller is, is weird and.
- [31:04]
Interviewer
Weird to me to talk to weird in a kind of spectrumy way.
- [31:08]
Michael Wolff
It's actually physically weird. I mean, in the, in the moment, the way he looks at you is, is, is weird. I mean, he focuses this intent, intense look, kind of unblinking look at you. He doesn't really kind of respond to what you say. He just says what he says. So it's like you're not really in the, you're not really having a conversation with anyone. You don't really exist in his frame of reference. And when he talks, it's very, in a. Jesus.
- [31:51]
Interviewer
In a kind of. Does he Monologue.
- [31:53]
Michael Wolff
Yes. Monologizing way. Thank you. And you know, speaks in those kind of, in those kind of paragraphs of what we're going to do and what we have to do and why this isn't. And then he just kind of drones on and then suddenly you find that the Jews are being put on trains. I mean, it's really that kind of scary stuff.
- [32:28]
Interviewer
So let's reel back a bit. He's Jewish, he grew up in a wealthy enclave of LA in Santa Monica. And he is supposed to be the policymaker behind Trump's immigration policy. Right. He's the reason that we now have masked men.
- [32:48]
Michael Wolff
Immigration is the thing that has most animated him. That is the thing that has, that has pushed him into this sort of right wing, the world of right wing extremes. During the campaign, one of the Trump aides referred to this as, because they had used him to talk about immigration, to give an interview to the New York Times about immigration. And the aides around Trump, if not Trump himself, immediately regretted this because it produced, you know, terrible headlines about what was going to happen to happen to immigrants, which turns out to be what is happening. But at that moment in time, the other people around Trump, the more normal people around Trump, one of the them referred to, as he said, Stephen's masturbatory fantasies about immigrants.
- [33:53]
Interviewer
And why does he feel like this? I mean, America is, you know, it's a nation of immigrants. Why, where does this come from?
- [34:05]
Michael Wolff
Well, you know, America has a long history, I mean, we should know, of antipathy to immigrants. I mean, you know, that's an interesting history because antipathy then turns into coexistence, then turns into inclusion. But there is always that thread of antipathy. And that's what, I mean, that's what Trump has exploited. I mean, the Trump campaign starting in 2015, begins with this idea that we're going to build a wall. So it's a very potent issue. And Trump is good at identifying those potent issues and sticking with those potent issues. Repetition, repetition, repetition. Part of the Trump, the Trump method. And so Stephen Miller has been, has, has been a key tool in that. You know, even if Trump considers him crazy or weird, he has been able to, to, to strictly focus on that narrative. Immigrants, immigrants are bad, immigrants are dangerous, and we're going to get them and we're going to expel them. And with a language, with an extreme language, I mean, and couched in with enormous rage and anger. Yes. And so it's a totally reasonable question, where does this come from? I mean, Stephen Miller has no reason, there's nothing in his life that would suggest that, that he or his family or anyone he knows has had inexperience in their own lives or communities in which immigrants would have been a threat.
- [36:13]
Interviewer
Well, far from it, I would think, in the wealthier enclaves of la, in fact, half the economy is kept going by. By gardeners, by domestic help that are all immigrants, I mean, let alone the farms of California. But it's so hard to understand what triggered him to create such an extreme policy that we now literally see playing out on the streets of our cities with masked men bundling people into the back of unmarked vans and people at the side taking videos of it, which we all see on our social media feeds and which are incredibly disturbing.
- [36:55]
Michael Wolff
No, And I've been told that he watches these things. Someone has described to me this. The sense of pleasure that you get from Stephen Miller as he watches the videos of this. So, I mean, this is. Yeah, I mean, this is weird. It's also warped, I think. I think we can say the level of cruelty that we're seeing, the level of power that is being demonstrated, the level of, the level of this lack of, lack of sympathy is, I think, must be partly what is, what's. What's motivating him here. This is. Is he likes it.
- [37:42]
Interviewer
And also the knowledge that this is not something that's going on in secret, it's going on in public. There were videos this week of it happening in New York, ice. And this is something that's happening in broad daylight. And I think passersby or, you know, unexpected witnesses find it very difficult to know how to respond other than by taking videos of it and posting it and saying, this is what's going on in your neighborhood.
- [38:09]
Michael Wolff
You know, there's a thing here, and it's central to the second Trump administration, of looking at these large cultural movements in modern American history and trying to undo them. Civil rights, feminism, and the facts that. That immigration. That immigrants have become a dominant presence in this country. That, that. And these are brown immigrants.
- [38:47]
Interviewer
Right. I was going to say it's a very specific kind of immigrant.
- [38:51]
Michael Wolff
Yeah. No, and remember, they've now off, They're. They're now rejigging policies to. To bring in white immigrants. But so this is against brown immigrants. And again, these are. I mean, I'd say that those are three of the most dominant themes in modern American life. Civil rights, feminism, and the. And the. And the. And the history. And the new history of immigration of immigrants into this country. And it is all about, so push that back, undo this again, return to 1965 before the voting Rights Act.
- [39:34]
Interviewer
And isn't one of the things about Stephen Miller, too, that after Donald Trump lost the election in 2020, that Stephen Miller didn't abandon him, other aides abandoned him, his son in law Jared Kushner abandoned him, didn't want anything more to do with him. Especially after January the same I think.
- [39:54]
Michael Wolff
He, like everyone else, literally everyone was of the opinion that Trump lost this election and that was that was that then I think Stephen Miller had had like, like quite a number of people in the White House had nothing to do, had to reconstitute their careers and, and, and it was hard because I think if when you came out of that White House, especially with, with, with January 6th, there were few opportunities and so the only opportunities that really existed was to, was to fall back on the Trump fold, the Trump universe. And the fact that the Trump universe did not collapse was I think a surprise to a lot of people, including people in it. And then it became an opportunity, a surprising opportunity. And Stephen Miller started a not for profit, started benefiting from the general Trump diaspora call it. And then he started a America First Legal. I can't remember the quite but it was attached to the American First. I mean one of the, one of the two main conservative policy organizations, one's the Heritage foundation and then the other is America First. It was a 501C3, you know, one of those, one of the kinds of groups that always form in Washington and then serve as kind of policy advisers to various, to both Democrats or Republicans and also between administrations usually are the place that you wait out until your guy or your party comes back to the White House. And as it became clearer and clearer that, that, that Trump had a good shot of coming back at the White House, these groups became more and more powerful and Stephen Miller within them became himself more and more powerful. So that when Trump was re elected and came back into the White House, Stephen Miller came back as a central policy player which he had not been in the first White House.
- [42:32]
Interviewer
It's just extraordinary his, his rise and as you say that the cruelty around it and these videos that people are seeing of, of people being shoved in the back of vans. It's most alarming. Michael Quick AD BREAK.
- [42:47]
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- [43:19]
Michael Wolff
Can I just let it. Go.
- [43:27]
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- [44:51]
Interviewer
And back with Michael Wolff talking about all things Trumpian.
- [44:55]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, I don't know anyone in the Trump universe who does not regard Stephen Miller as a wackadoo.
- [45:01]
Interviewer
And does Trump like him? Does Trump like having him around?
- [45:07]
Michael Wolff
Not especially. I mean, he may, I mean, I think Trump is a bit confused by him, by his intensity, by his preoccupation with the, these, with these issues which Trump benefits from, but frankly is not preoccupied by. So, but in that respect, Stephen Miller.
- [45:26]
Interviewer
Is a useful tool until it becomes something that is too much for Americans and they decide that they've had enough of it.
- [45:35]
Michael Wolff
Yeah, but you know, and I would say that that should be happening and that is happening. But, but at the same time, what we're just seeing is a true willingness to double down. And you know, that's part of, part of the, part of this moment is in which, you know, Trump is not looking forward to having to be reelected. I mean, to back to this idea, we have the power, we can do anything with it and we should do anything that we can do with it.
- [46:13]
Interviewer
Well, you're doing what you can do and all being well, you're going to be able to depose for the first time ever, the first lady and her husband, the President Donald Trump. Let's pick up and talk more about Stephen Miller on Saturday. He's moving out of his house in D.C. because he and his wife have been doxed and because people are apparently turning up and leaving messages in chalk on the pavement outside, which I'm sure they and their three children don't appreciate looking at every day. But anyway, their house is up for sale for three and a half million dollars. If anybody is looking to move to D.C. and would be up for moving into the Miller's house, you might want to sage it first. But Michael, I know you've got lawyers, conversations to have and things to get back to. I want to do a couple of quick shout outs to people who've asked us questions. Rick Wallace, 41, wants to know, what does the CIA have to say about Trump's actions? Or do they just defer to him?
- [47:12]
Michael Wolff
Like all aspects of government, everybody is afraid of Donald Trump. So, you know, the CIA is not different from any anybody else at this, at this point. It is they, they work for, they work for Donald Trump. If they forget that they're going to be fired.
- [47:34]
Interviewer
I also think we ought to do a special episode or an entire episode on the doj, because I do find it extraordinary that it's now, it appears to be almost entirely staffed with his former personal lawyers. So we have Pam Bondi as the head of the DOJ, Todd Blanche as the number two, and then Lindsey Halligan now as the U.S. attorney in Virginia overseeing the indictments of James Comey, of John Brennan, of John Bolton. I mean, this is completely unprecedented for the DOJ to become quite so politicized. I want to interrogate you on that.
- [48:13]
Michael Wolff
And I think we use the word unprecedented and that's not really the case. That's a value free word. I mean, it's not necessarily terrible that something is happening that has never happened in the past. This is something well beyond that. This is a complete subversion of the very principles of American justice. And Donald Trump, the President of the United States, again, if you have the power, we should use it. Has taken upon himself to destroy the idea that justice is blind. And now justice is administered only through Donald Trump's eyes.
- [49:06]
Interviewer
Very scary place indeed. Michael, go forth and deal with your lawyers and we will talk again on Saturday.
- [49:17]
Michael Wolff
Can't wait.
- [49:18]
Interviewer
Can you just remind people to subscribe?
- [49:21]
Michael Wolff
Please subscribe to us. I'm continuing to be unsure how that is done, but they tell me you can just push a button.
- [49:29]
Interviewer
I think you just pressed something called subscribe and if you have been thank you for joining us again if you haven't been beast and we will see you back here inside Trump's head on Saturday. And a shout out to our top tier Beebeast members Karen White, Heidi Riley, Connie Rutherford, Sharon Shipley, Andrea Hodel and Free dc thanks to our production team, Devon Rogerino, Anna Von Erssen and Jesse Millwood.
- [50:00]
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- [50:32]
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- [51:03]
Interviewer
I'm Hannah Berner and I'm also thinking.
- [51:05]
Michael Wolff
About underwear, but I prefer full coverage.
- [51:08]
Interviewer
I like to call them my granny panties.
- [51:10]
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- [51:14]
Interviewer
Same. They're so light and so comfy and if it's not comfortable, I'm not wearing it.
- [51:18]
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- [51:22]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [51:22]
Michael Wolff
Lord knows the girls need to breathe.
- [51:24]
Interviewer
Also, I need my PJs to breathe.
- [51:26]
Michael Wolff
And be buttery, soft and stretchy enough for my dramatic tossing and turning at night.
- [51:30]
Interviewer
That's why I live in my Tommy John pajamas.
- [51:33]
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Plus they're so cute because they fit perfectly.
- [51:36]
Michael Wolff
Put yourself on to Tommy John.
- [51:38]
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