Inside Trump's Head

Episode: Wolff: What I’m Going to Ask Melania Under Oath
Hosts: Michael Wolff & Joanna Coles
Date: October 24, 2025

Overview

In this explosive episode, Michael Wolff and Joanna Coles unpack the latest dramatic turn in Trump-world: Wolff’s unprecedented lawsuit against First Lady Melania Trump, leveraging New York’s anti-SLAPP laws to counteract what he characterizes as intimidation tactics and to gain subpoena power over the Trump family’s connections to Jeffrey Epstein. The discussion delves deep into the implications of this legal maneuver, the symbolic demolition of the White House’s East Wing under Trump’s direction, and the psychological role of power and spectacle in the Trump era.

The episode also finally turns to Stephen Miller—Trump advisor and architect of draconian immigration policies—offering insider anecdotes and sharp analysis of Miller’s influence, weirdness, and the cruelty that marks his political legacy.

Key Discussion Points

1. Wolff Sues Melania: Turning the Tables

• Lawsuit Announcement:

  • [01:31] Michael Wolff explains that he has sued Melania Trump, marking an unprecedented reversal—“Michael Wolff versus Melania Trump”—in response to what he considers a gag tactic used by the Trumps: “They sue the media and the media goes quiet…me suing them—apparently deeply unexpected to them” ([08:23]).
  • He aims to use subpoena powers to expose Trump/Epstein connections: “This lawsuit is an opportunity to reconstruct their lives together—Donald Trump, Jeffrey Epstein, and then later Melania Trump would come along. This is precisely what Donald Trump wants covered up. So bring it on.” ([03:08], [18:41])

• Anti-SLAPP Strategy:

  • Wolff invokes New York’s anti-SLAPP laws to counter the Trumps’ defamation lawsuits, describing it as a “jujitsu move” ([06:53]).
  • Reluctance and necessity: “In a sense, I would have preferred it would be someone else…but comes the moment, comes the man—who’s surprised by the moment, which would be me.” ([10:20])

• Public & Legal Impact:

  • Massive public support: “The response has been, I think, nothing less than incredible. An outpouring of support…” ([09:47])
  • Realities: It’s “expensive and time consuming”; he’s starting a GoFundMe (“Support is partly for me…but also to provide the wherewithal to haul these people into court…this is, dare I say, America.” [10:59])

2. The Flag, the Stage, and Trump’s Psyche

• Trump’s Appropriation of the Flag:

  • [04:00] Wolff and Coles discuss reclaiming the American flag, how Trump “set out to take that flag away”—making it a personal stage-prop.

• Stagecraft as Power:

  • “The stage set is inside Trump’s head…He’s very conscious of how many flags…It is all stagecraft, which he is very good at, in which the American flag turns out to be a very useful supporting player.” ([04:29])

3. The Demolition of the East Wing: Symbolism and Show of Power

• East Wing Destruction & Transparency:

  • [11:34] Coles describes the “remarkable speed” of the East Wing’s demolition, noting Trump’s override of historic process and the literal fencing-off of the site.
  • Both agree the destruction is a metaphor—“You're not supposed to tear down the White House…I mean, can it be more obvious than that? You're not supposed to do it. The People's House.” ([12:54])

• Power Unchecked:

  • Wolff narrates how Trump responds when warned about overreach: “We have the power, we should use it. Which is kind of terrifying…” ([12:40], [14:09])
  • Obscuring the evidence: “Once you’ve demolished, you’ve changed the facts on the ground. Builders in New York do this all the time…there’s no going back now. He has demolished it.” ([16:54])

4. The Epstein Files: What Might Come to Light

• Subpoena Intent:
  • [18:28] Wolff: “First is just to subpoena whoever might seem to be able to shed light on the relationship of Donald Trump and Melania Trump to Jeffrey Epstein.”
  • Notable individuals in focus: Ghislaine Maxwell, possibly tapes of Epstein discussing Trump, and even foreign leaders like Ehud Barak ([21:45], [22:07], [25:01]).
  • Famous quote: “Jeffrey Epstein would say…‘we were the same person. I know the secrets.’” ([18:51])
  • Steve Bannon’s fear: “Steve Bannon…the first thing he said, putting out his hand and shaking Jeffrey Epstein’s hand was, ‘You were the only person I was afraid of during the 2016 campaign.’” ([18:51])

5. Cultural Ripples of the Epstein Scandal

• [22:57] Discussion of Virginia Giuffre’s book “Nobody’s Girl,” her allegations against a Prime Minister, and the worldwide implications of Epstein’s networks (“it's all very curious how one man can have such an impact over all sorts of world leaders.”)

6. Stephen Miller: Trumpism’s Dark Technocrat

• Origin Story & Perceptions:

  • [29:27] Wolff: “Stephen Miller was regarded throughout the White House as an oddster…Trump used to talk about him that way and roll his eyes—‘Crazy Stephen’ and ‘Weird Stephen’.”
  • Bannon’s warning about meeting Miller: “You really want to meet him? Are you sure?” Wolf confirms: “So everybody has this idea that Stephen Miller is weird.” ([30:00])

• Miller’s Manner and Obsession:

  • “Physically weird…he focuses this intense, unblinking look at you. He doesn’t really…respond to what you say, he just says what he says…when he talks…it’s in those kind of paragraphs of what we’re going to do…then you find that the Jews are being put on trains. I mean, it’s really that kind of scary stuff.” ([31:07], [31:53])
  • Immigration is his obsession, described as “Stephen’s masturbatory fantasies about immigrants.” ([32:48])

• Cruelty as Policy:

  • “No, and I’ve been told that he watches these things…Stephen Miller as he watches the videos…this is weird…it’s also warped…I think we can say the level of cruelty that we’re seeing…the level of power that is being demonstrated…is what’s motivating him. He likes it.” ([36:55])
  • Specificity: “They are now rejigging policies to bring in white immigrants…so this is against brown immigrants.” ([38:50])

• Miller’s Endurance in Trump’s World:

  • Refused to abandon Trump post-2020, became head of America First Legal, and gained even more power in Trump’s second term ([39:54])
  • Wolff: “I don’t know anyone in the Trump universe who does not regard Stephen Miller as a wackadoo.” ([44:55])
  • “Not especially [does Trump like him]…Miller is a useful tool until it becomes something that is too much for Americans and they decide they’ve had enough of it.” ([45:01], [45:26])

7. Trump and the Weaponization of Government

• DOJ and CIA Subversion:
  • [47:12] Wolff: “Like all aspects of government, everybody is afraid of Donald Trump. So…the CIA is not different from anybody else at this point.”
  • Coles: The DOJ is now filled with Trump’s personal lawyers, listing names and recent prosecutions ([47:34]).
  • Wolff: “This is something well beyond that. This is a complete subversion of the very principles of American justice.” ([48:12])
  • “Now justice is administered only through Donald Trump’s eyes.” ([48:54])

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Power and Rule-breaking:

  • Michael Wolff on Trump’s ethos: “We have the power, we should use it. Which is kind of a terrifying thing, if you think about that…” ([12:40])

• On Stagecraft:

  • “The stage set is inside Trump’s head…It is all stagecraft, which he is very good at, in which the American flag turns out to be a very useful supporting player.” ([04:29])

• On Demolishing Norms:

  • “You’re not supposed to tear down the White House…The People’s House.” ([12:54])

• On Epstein’s Influence:

  • “We were the same person. I know the secrets.” —Jeffrey Epstein, as described by Michael Wolff ([18:51])
  • “Steve Bannon said, putting out his hand and shaking Jeffrey Epstein’s hand, ‘You were the only person I was afraid of during the campaign, the 2016 campaign.’” ([18:51])

• On Stephen Miller:

  • “Physically weird…he focuses this intense, unblinking look at you. He doesn’t really…respond to what you say, he just says what he says.” ([31:07])
  • “Then suddenly you find that the Jews are being put on trains…I mean, it’s really that kind of scary stuff.” ([31:53])
  • “Stephen Miller is a wackadoo.” ([44:55])

• On DOJ:

  • “This is a complete subversion of the very principles of American justice…Now justice is administered only through Donald Trump’s eyes.” ([48:12], [48:54])

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [01:31] — Wolff announces lawsuit against Melania Trump
• [03:26] — Conversation about Instagram announcement and symbolism of the flag
• [06:34] — Anti-SLAPP discussion and legal motivations
• [10:45] — On timing, logistics, and cost of the legal battle
• [11:34] — Analysis of the East Wing demolition as metaphor and spectacle
• [16:54] — Real estate strategy behind hasty demolition and links to Trump psyche
• [18:28] — Subpoena plans and re-opening of Epstein files
• [22:07] — Tapes and anecdotes about Epstein, Trump, and Melania
• [29:27] — In-depth discussion of Stephen Miller’s persona and influence
• [32:48] — Immigration obsession and ideological origins
• [38:50] — Race-specific immigration policy and parallels to larger culture wars
• [47:12] — DOJ and CIA have become politicized, subverting American justice principles

Tone & Style

The episode oscillates between mordant humor (especially about the flag and Trump’s stagecraft), urgent concern about democratic backsliding (“there’s no going back now”; “it’s a complete subversion of American justice”), and almost surreal disbelief at the audacity, showmanship, and continuous escalation of tactics in Trump’s America.

This episode offers a clear, direct look into the nexus of Trump’s power, spectacle, and the ongoing efforts—legal and symbolic—to hold his entourage, and legacy, to public scrutiny.