Election Finale: Harris’s Star Power, Trump’s Mic Moment, and MAGA’s Conspiracy Web

Summary

Summary of "The Daily Show: Ears Edition" Episode: "Election Finale: Harris’s Star Power, Trump’s Mic Moment, and MAGA’s Conspiracy Web"

Release Date: November 5, 2024

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Introduction

In the climactic episode of "The Daily Show: Ears Edition," host Jordan Klepper delves into the final days of the 2024 U.S. Presidential Election. The episode provides a comprehensive analysis of the concluding strategies of key candidates, the rise of conspiracy theories within the MAGA movement, and diverse predictions about the election outcome. The discussion is enriched with insights from political analysts Michael Costa and guest Adam Serworth, an author and staff writer at The Atlantic.

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Final Arguments of the Candidates

Kamala Harris’s Campaign Strategy

Kamala Harris wraps up her campaign with a message centered on unity and hope. She leverages her star power by aligning with high-profile celebrities and musicians to energize her base.

• Quote: "She has Glorilla out here. She has Cardi B, who wasn't even gonna vote four months ago, making a surprise appearance on Saturday Night Live..." ([02:10])

Harris emphasizes inclusivity, showcasing endorsements from artists like Katy Perry, Oprah, and Lady Gaga to broaden her appeal.

Donald Trump’s Aggressive Rhetoric

Contrasting Harris’s optimistic approach, Donald Trump adopts a confrontational tone, criticizing the media and political opponents while appealing to his core supporters through incendiary remarks.

• Quote: "Do you want to see me knock the hell out of people backstage? You're going to get a bunch of crooks and horrible people. She's a dumb person..." ([02:48])

Trump's closing arguments are marked by a mix of humor and hostility, attempting to solidify his stance against perceived adversaries and maintain his influence within the MAGA base.

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Analysis of Trump's Rhetoric and Strategies

Trump's final campaign messages are dissected to reveal a blend of aggressive posturing and unconventional humor.

• Quote: "I have this piece of glass here, and to get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news. And I don't mind that so much." ([02:48])

His rhetoric not only criticizes the media but also introduces bizarre elements, such as the unexpected involvement of RFK Jr., to confuse and distract voters from traditional policy discussions.

• Quote: "You're not gonna touch that. No, let me work the liquid gold, Bobby. Let me work it." ([04:58])

This strategy underscores Trump's penchant for unpredictability and his focus on maintaining media attention through controversial statements.

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The MAGA Conspiracy Web

The episode explores how conspiracy theories have become integral to the MAGA movement, shaping voter perceptions and actions.

Fluoride in Water

A significant conspiracy discussed is the unfounded claim that the removal of fluoride from public water is a deliberate governmental action with sinister motives.

• Quote: "They spent two years talking about tariffs, and now you're like, oh, by the way, the guy with brainworms is in charge of everybody's health." ([05:21])

Such theories distract from substantive policy issues, creating a narrative where mundane governmental decisions are imbued with conspiratorial intent.

Impact on Voter Behavior

These unfounded beliefs contribute to a polarized electorate, where decisions are influenced by misinformation rather than factual policy analysis.

• Quote: "We are an hour from election day... A president who decide who they want to be the president based on those weird issues." ([06:12])

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Polling and Predictions

Traditional Polling vs. Alternative Predictions

The episode juxtaposes traditional polling methods with alternative prediction systems, highlighting the uncertainty surrounding the election outcome.

• Quote: "Polls tell you what people are thinking now, but they sometimes change their minds 100%." ([13:57])

RFK Jr.’s 13 Keys System

RFK Jr. introduces his predictive model, which he claims has accurately forecasted nine out of ten elections by analyzing 13 fundamental factors.

• Quote: "The keys indicate that Kamala Harris will become the first woman president of the U.S." ([15:36])

Astrological Predictions

Grace Kulenschik presents an astrology-based perspective, asserting that planetary alignments favor Kamala Harris over Donald Trump.

• Quote: "Donald Trump's chart is giving desire for power and control, and Kamala's chart is giving more following her life path." ([17:14])

While entertaining, these methods underscore the unpredictable nature of election outcomes.

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Interview with Adam Serworth: The Evolution of the MAGA Movement

Three Circles of Trump Supporters

Adam Serworth outlines a tripartite structure within the Trump coalition:

1. Policy Advocates: Individuals aligned with Trump's traditional policy agenda, focused on economic redistribution and tax cuts for the wealthy.
2. True Believers: Devoted supporters who see Trump as a fighter against perceived threats and believe in his promises of economic and social rejuvenation.
3. Conservative Voters: Moderates who support Trump for pragmatic reasons, such as lower taxes and business-friendly policies, often rationalizing his controversial behavior.

• Quote: "There are these shadowy elites who are trying to destroy the world as you know it." ([22:38])

Normalization of Cruelty and Conspiratorial Beliefs

Serworth discusses how cruelty has become a celebrated aspect of Trump rallies, fostering an environment where hateful rhetoric is normalized and used to justify extreme actions.

• Quote: "They get to say the things that people might judge them for saying... Trump will encourage it, and they'll laugh at it." ([27:33])

This shift contributes to a more hostile political climate, where empathy is overshadowed by aggressive partisanship.

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The Role of Informant Laws in Conservative States

The discussion highlights the enactment of "snitch" laws in Republican-led states, aiming to incentivize reporting on behaviors deemed undesirable by conservative standards.

• Quote: "A law like that is not just about making sure people don't have abortions, but you can't discuss them because you might get sued." ([30:07])

These laws foster an environment of distrust and surveillance within communities, targeting marginalized groups and stifacing open discourse.

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Conclusion and Final Remarks

As Election Day looms, the episode encapsulates a nation polarized by aggressive campaign strategies, pervasive conspiracy theories, and uncertainty regarding the electoral outcome. The interplay between traditional polling and unconventional prediction methods reflects the deep-seated divisions within the electorate. The normalization of cruelty within political rallies and the implementation of stringent informant laws exacerbate societal tensions, emphasizing the critical importance of voter participation in shaping the nation’s future.

• Final Quote: "Don't forget to vote." ([08:08])

Jordan Klepper reinforces the episode's central message: amidst chaos and uncertainty, civic engagement remains essential for democratic integrity.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• "Do you want to see me knock the hell out of people backstage?..." – Donald Trump ([02:48])
• "She's coming for every last soul cycle vote." – Jordan Klepper ([02:28])
• "You must vote. I don't care who you vote for, but you must vote." – RFK Jr. ([18:43])
• "The electorate as a whole ask whether the administration has done a good enough job..." – RFK Jr. ([15:19])
• "They get to say the things that people might judge them for saying..." – Adam Serworth ([27:33])

This episode serves as a critical examination of the final push towards the 2024 Presidential Election, offering listeners a nuanced understanding of the strategies, beliefs, and external factors influencing the outcome.

Transcript

[Seth Doane]

When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television.

[Seth Doane]

Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change.

[Jordan Klepper]

Like, none of this stuff gets looked at.

[Grace Kulenschik]

That's what's incredible.

[Seth Doane]

I'm seth Doane of CBS News. Listen to 60 Minutes, a second look on Apple Podcasts.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're listening to Comedy Central.

[Michael Costa]

From the.

[Jordan Clapper]

Most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Jordan Clever.

[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Jordan Clapper. We got so much to talk about tonight. Kamala makes her final arguments. Trump gives a final bj. And if you're nervous about who's going to win the election, don't worry. We're just going to tell you. So let's get into it. Indecision 2024. Guys, tomorrow is the big day. At long last, Tilda Swinton's birthday. She's turning ageless. So congrats to her. Tomorrow is also election day. And look, I'm not in the prediction business, but I still think Joe Biden can pull this off. But meanwhile, Donald Trump and Kamala Harris have both been making their closing arguments. For Kamala, it's a message of unity, hope. And check out who my friends are.

[Michael Costa]

A megawatt all star lineup. On the trail.

[Jordan Klepper]

You can see some of the scenes.

[Michael Costa]

Right there on your screen.

[Jordan Klepper]

Performances from musicians like Mumford and Sons and Gracie Abrams.

She has Glorilla out here. She has Cardi B, who wasn't even gonna vote four months ago, making a.

[Jordan Clapper]

Surprise appearance on Saturday Night Live playing.

[Jordan Klepper]

The mirror image of actress Maya Rudolph's version of her. She is leaning on some big names like Katy Perry, Oprah, Lady Gaga, Ricky Martin, the Roots and others to help get her across the finish line.

Lady Gaga, Katy Perry, Ricky Martin. If you stole their album on Limewire, they're probably endorsing Kamala Harris. She's coming for every last soul cycle vote. Now, while Kamala's ending the campaign on a note of joy and celebrity hype, Donald Trump's closing argument is that he's pissed at basically everyone.

[Donald Trump]

Do you want to see me knock the hell out of people backstage? You're going to get a bunch of crooks and horrible people. She's a dumb person. Guys like Adam Schiffty. Schiff, you'll probably be a senator. Can you believe it, watermelon head. What an ugly guy. Both inside and Out. It's a very demonic party, and I have this piece of glass here, and to get me, somebody would have to shoot through the fake news. And I don't mind that so much.

[Jordan Klepper]

He's just casually joking about reporters getting shot. You know, I guess you'd be grouchy, too, if you had to do all your campaign events encased in glass, like a stick of deodorant at Walgreens. But Trump wasn't just giving off dark vibes. He was also giving off a weird sexual energy.

[Donald Trump]

I came in today, I said, and, you know, this is after four of these things I've been. In all fairness, I mean, I'm a human being, right? I come in, and here's the problem. I said, oh, man, it's too low. I said, it's too low. Way too low. Way too low.

[Jordan Klepper]

What are we doing here, people? I hate to say it, but can we please go back to the handjob routine?

[Jordan Clapper]

Please?

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, a campaign has gone off the rails when you go to watch C Span and it asks if you're over 18. But blowing a mic stand isn't even the weirdest part of his closing message. The weirdest part is that with just a few days to go, he's now telling us, oh, by the way, RFK Jr. Is going to do all the president stuff.

[Donald Trump]

And I told a great guy, RFK Jr. I said, Bobby, you work on women's health, you work on health. You work on what we eat, you work on pesticides, you work on everything. The one thing you have to let me do, Bobby, I gotta work the liquid gold. You're not gonna touch that.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're not gonna touch that. No, let me work the liquid gold, Bobby. Let me work it. Let me work it. Okay, okay, let me get this straight. So you're gonna give RFK junior Women's health, regular health, food, pesticides, and, quote, everything, and in return, you're just gonna suck all the oil out of the ground? This. This is a lot of new shit to drop on us. The day before election Day, you spent two years talking about tariffs, and now you're like, oh, by the way, the guy with brainworms is in charge of everybody's health. You need me, I'll be in Texas working the drills. You know, you might be thinking Trump is just talking out of his ass, but. But RFK Jr doesn't think so, because unlike getting rid of a bear corpse, he's put a lot of thought into this.

[RFK Jr.]

Over the weekend, Kennedy tweeted the Trump.

[Jordan Klepper]

Administration would quote Advise all US Water systems to remove fluoride from public water on day one. The CDC recommends fluoride in water as a cost effective way to improve oral health. Trump telling NBC News the fluoride removal idea. Quote, sounds okay to me.

Does this sound okay again? This is two days before the election. We haven't talked about this at all in the last 700 days, but suddenly the. That's been normal in this country for 80 years. It's like we're gonna get rid of that on day one. I mean, where did this come from? Even the people who wrote Project 2025 were like, fluoride. Did we put that in here? This whole campaign I've been prepping for the worst case scenario, but not the weirdest case scenario. Now I gotta worry about soft teeth. You know how many Trump rallies I've been to? Do you know how many? Do you know how many? Not once did I ever hear him say, people's teeth are too hard. We're gonna f. Look, look, Trump campaign, this is your last chance to get your message out. Surely there is someone who is staying focused on the important issues and not getting distracted like some idiot dog when it sees a squirrel.

[Jordan Clapper]

Have you seen the videos of this squirrel?

[Jordan Klepper]

Me? No. No, I haven't seen the videos of this squirrel. Why is that an issue?

[Michael Costa]

MAGA Republicans are up in arms after Peanut the squirrel, a pet squirrel famous on social media, was seized by the New York Department of Environmental Conservation and later euthanized for biting.

[Jordan Klepper]

An official. I know Don's fired up about Peanut the squirrel.

We were on the way down here from Cincinnati. He was like, you know, is it.

[Jordan Clapper]

Really the case that the Democrats murdered the Elon Musk of squirrels?

[Jordan Klepper]

But if someone adopts a baby pet squirrel, hell yeah. No justice for Peanut.

Okay, again everyone, we are mere hours before election day and Republicans final message. The message is we must avenge the death of Peanut the squirrel. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad Republicans finally care about police brutality. But here we are with all of Magaworld mourning the death of Peanut the squirrel. Well, not RFK junior. He already has Peanut marinating in his fridge. But so to sum up, we are an hour from election day. We have a presidential candidate descending even further into madness. A legion of his supporters ready to follow him into battle. The Capitol is all boarded up and ready for a final showdown. Our kids teeth are about to fall out. The police are executing squirrels. And tomorrow is the climactic day when we discover whether Earth continues existing in its muddled mess. Or we all go screaming into hell. I guess what I'm saying is don't forget to vote. For more on the Trump campaign's closing messages, we go live to Trump campaign headquarters with political analyst Michael Costa. Michael. Michael. It feels like during this final weekend, Trump was totally spiraling out of control.

[Jordan Clapper]

Wrong again, Jordan. Out of control. Donald Trump is totally spiraling in of control, all right? He's not reckless, he's reckful. He's not the mayor of crazy town. He's the sheriff of sane. Diego, you following this?

[Jordan Klepper]

No, I'm not following that at all. Are you saying. Are you saying Trump is being rational here? He spent the final weekend of the campaign just ranting about issues that voters don't care about.

[Jordan Clapper]

Well, issues that most voters don't care about. Think about it, Jordan. Voters who care about normal issues have already voted early. Some of them voted weeks ago. At this point, their I voted stickers are more torn up than my nipples after yesterday's marathon.

[Jordan Klepper]

You ran. You ran the marathon?

[Jordan Clapper]

No, but I like to watch it like this. The point is, there are still people who haven't voted yet. People political science academics refer to as da freaks. Okay? They're the ones with hyper specific freaky single issues. Fluoride in the water, civil rights for squirrels, a man's right to give a consenting microphone a blowjob. And Donald Trump is speaking to and or sucking off these issues.

[Jordan Klepper]

There. There can't be people who decide. A president who decide who they want to be the president based on those weird issues.

[Jordan Clapper]

Jordan, it's no different than people who vote based on the price of eggs. I mean, to me, that's weird. Why eggs? There are a million other foods. There's Jello or Jello or I can't.

[Jordan Klepper]

Think of other foods.

[Jordan Clapper]

But you get what I'm saying, Michael.

[Jordan Klepper]

If this is such a good strategy, why isn't Kamala doing it?

[Jordan Clapper]

She is. She's at an event with Katy Perry as we speak.

[Jordan Klepper]

Why?

[Jordan Clapper]

To lock down the two or three freaks who like Katy Perry's new album, Jello. Jello? Did I say Jello?

[Jordan Klepper]

You only said jello.

[Jordan Clapper]

Good, good. My point is the voters who wait until the very end, by definition have the most leverage so they can say whatever they want and get it. That's why, Jordan. To make my vote be the most powerful. I'll be voting after the election.

[Jordan Klepper]

Then your vote won't count. That's stupid.

[Jordan Clapper]

Non fat Jello. Jello pops. Strawberry Jello. See, these are all totally different foods. Now who's Stupid.

[Jordan Klepper]

Very insightful. Michael Kost, everyone. We come back, we find out who's going to win tomorrow. Don't go away.

[Seth Doane]

When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is 60 Minutes. It's a kind of a magazine for television.

[Seth Doane]

Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change.

[Jordan Klepper]

Like, none of this stuff gets looked at.

[Grace Kulenschik]

That's what's incredible.

[Seth Doane]

I'm Seth Doane of CBS news. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple Podcasts.

[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. If you want to know who's going to win the election, polls aren't the only way to predict the future. Grace Kulenschmik has more.

[Michael Costa]

The election is so close and the stakes are so high. I feel like I can't think about anything else. Can someone just tell me what's gonna happen so I can chill the out?

[Jordan Klepper]

Presidential race at a dead heat, deadlocked at exactly 48%. Got Trump up two points.

[Jordan Clapper]

Harris with a three point advantage, maybe.

[Jordan Klepper]

Trump up a point or two.

Harris up by four.

Everything you're about to see is within the margin of error.

[Michael Costa]

So what do these numbers mean? I could do the A Beautiful Mind thing, but maybe it's just quicker to talk to an expert. Anthony, who the is going to win this election?

[Jordan Klepper]

I can tell you that this race is effectively tied.

[RFK Jr.]

Has been for a while. In all the polls, there are so.

[Jordan Klepper]

Few undecided voters who say they may or may not vote and they'll probably decide this.

[Michael Costa]

Okay, thank you for all of this information. It's been really helpful. I'm wondering who is going to win the election?

[Jordan Klepper]

I can't tell you that.

[Michael Costa]

Do you think that polls are the best way to predict elections?

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, polls tell you what people are thinking now, and more importantly, they show you why people are thinking it. But what do we know about people? They sometimes change their minds 100%.

[Michael Costa]

So this morning, for example, I was at a diner. I know what I want. It's going to be two eggs, scrambled, sausage, potatoes.

[Jordan Klepper]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

But it was 11:30, so I was seriously tempted to get a chicken Caesar wrap. And that's basically exactly what you do.

[Jordan Klepper]

Not really, but it does underline the idea that people can make different decisions at different times.

[Michael Costa]

Can you just blink once if it's going to be the person I want it to be? Okay, that's a really bad sign. So despite that being their only job, the polls can't tell us who is going to win. Fortunately, there is someone who has called nine out of 10 of the last elections using a system of 13 questions about the economy and the electorate?

[RFK Jr.]

I don't pay attention to the polls. They're snapshots, not predictors. My system, the 13 keys to the White House, examines the fundamental forces that drive presidential elections.

[Michael Costa]

So how did you settle on 13 keys?

[RFK Jr.]

Using pattern recognition. Every election from 1860 to 1980.

[Michael Costa]

Why not 14?

[RFK Jr.]

Could have been any number.

[Michael Costa]

Why not 15?

[RFK Jr.]

I love all those numbers. But the big message is it's governing, not campaigning that counts. That the electorate as a whole ask whether the administration has done a good enough job for four more years or they want to make a change.

[Michael Costa]

So, Alan, what is your prediction for this election? 2024.

[RFK Jr.]

The keys indicate that Kamala Harris will become the first woman president of the U.S. cool.

[Michael Costa]

Allen's track record is solid, but he did make one oopsie in 2000.

[RFK Jr.]

People say I got Florida wrong because I was calling Gore, and in fact, Bush ultimately won. I say I was correct because Florida way disproportionately rejected ballots cast by African Americans.

[Michael Costa]

So your system works perfectly unless someone is stealing an election.

[RFK Jr.]

Yes.

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank God.

[Michael Costa]

That won't happen. Right? Right. Okay, so is there one other reliable method for predicting the election?

[Grace Kulenschik]

So election results are a perfect thing for astrology to predict. The position of the planets when you're born influences a person's personality and how their life unfolds.

[Michael Costa]

And Amy has been amazingly accurate in some of her predictions, like naming the exact date that Joe Biden stepped down.

[Grace Kulenschik]

There was a full moon coming up that was in Capricorn at 29 degrees, and 29 degrees represents an ending, and Capricorn represents old age. So I just put together that he was going to drop out.

[Michael Costa]

That's fair. That makes sense, actually. So what are your current predictions for the 2024 election?

[Grace Kulenschik]

I predict Kamala is going to win the presidency.

[Michael Costa]

So basically, with this election, what you're saying is that Kamala's chart just looks more powerful than Donald Trump.

[Grace Kulenschik]

Yeah. Donald Trump's chart is giving desire for power and control, and Kamala's chart is giving more following her life path and what she's meant to do.

[Michael Costa]

So is it real? Is astrology real?

[Grace Kulenschik]

Yes, it's very real.

[Michael Costa]

Okay.

[Grace Kulenschik]

Very real. Mm.

[Michael Costa]

The stars had made a clear prediction for the election, but what could they predict about something that really mattered? Like me?

[Grace Kulenschik]

I do see a wealth aspect in your chart.

[Michael Costa]

That's fabulous news.

[Grace Kulenschik]

And Trump's a Gemini, and you have a lot of Gemini energy, so you.

[Michael Costa]

Would say Trump and I are similar.

[Grace Kulenschik]

Yeah. Actually, your Venus is on his son, so you might would fall in love with him.

[Michael Costa]

My V is on his what?

[Jordan Klepper]

Now?

[Grace Kulenschik]

This is a marriage aspect.

[Michael Costa]

Actually, this changes everything. I mean, are you gonna tell my girlfriend or am I?

[Grace Kulenschik]

But for Trump, it's not outside the realm of possibility that he goes to jail.

[Michael Costa]

So my husband is going to jail.

[Grace Kulenschik]

Yeah.

[Michael Costa]

But I'll be wealthy.

[Grace Kulenschik]

Yes.

[Michael Costa]

Okay, good.

[Grace Kulenschik]

You're gonna have the money.

[Michael Costa]

I am loving astrology. There you have it. But with both the stars and history predicting the future, do we even need to vote?

[RFK Jr.]

Ah, here's the thing. The keys are based on history, and if people don't vote, you're going to break the pattern of history.

[Michael Costa]

So I have to vote.

[RFK Jr.]

You must vote. I don't care who you vote for, but you must vote.

[Michael Costa]

You're such a Leo. I'm not a Leo.

[RFK Jr.]

I'm a Taurus.

[Michael Costa]

Let's cut that part out.

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank you, Grace. We come back. Adam True will be joining me on the show. Don't go away.

[Seth Doane]

When 60 Minutes premiered in September 1968, there was nothing like it.

[Donald Trump]

This is 60 Minutes.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's a kind of a magazine for television.

[Seth Doane]

Very few have been given access to the treasures in our archives. But that's all about to change.

[Jordan Klepper]

Like, none of this stuff gets looked at.

[Grace Kulenschik]

That's what's incredible.

[Seth Doane]

I'm Seth Doan of CBS news. Listen to 60 Minutes a second look on Apple Podcasts.

[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is an author and staff writer at the Atlantic, whose piece in the latest issue is called the Right Wing Plan to Make Everyone an Informant. Please welcome Adam Serworth. Adam, I'm excited. You, you're one of my favorite writers covering this strange moment we are in. And you had a new piece just dropped today. Is that what happens with new pieces? Do they drop? Is it like a new song? As a journalist, you say, I dropped a new piece today.

Only when we want to sound really cool.

I was going to say try it.

I just dropped a new piece today.

Okay, good. This is the audience for it. Yes. Your new piece. Trump's followers are living in a dark fantasy, and I just read it. You talk about going to Trump rallies. I've been to a thousand Trump rallies, and you've gone to them over the years. I'm curious what you've noticed recently and how, if you've noticed any sort of change.

Yeah, I think, you know what's really different about the rallies now. And I think, you know, I think it's important to recognize, you know, we're coming out of a difficult economic moment because of high inflation, because of the end of pandemic. But what's happened is there is a sort of universe of unreality that they're living in, in which everything bad that is happening in America at this moment is the fault of immigrants and illegal immigration. And that is primarily because that's what Donald Trump and J.D. vance are telling them. And so they have this idea that if Trump comes in, he's gonna take all this money that's being spent on these illegal immigrants that Kamala Harris and Joe Biden are bringing in and spending all this money on. They're gonna take that money, and they're gonna spend it on them instead. And that's really not what the agenda is. And so, to me, I thought that was interesting. Do you find it.

Was that different than what you noticed in 2016?

Yeah, I mean, I think the sort of comprehensive universe of unreality that these people are living in is distinct. And I think we saw how dangerous that kind of conspiratorial universe can be on January 6th in 2020. But if anything, it's only gotten worse. People are in a kind of conspiratorial bubble where they think that they are being victimized by things that are not happening. And this is not to say that people are not suffering from real economic hardships, but the reasons they are being given for those things are not the actual reasons.

Now, you talk about the three circles of the MAGA universe here. Did you notice it broken down in three kind of types of people who were becoming and are fervent Trump supporters?

Yeah, I mean, I think there's the people who would staff a Trump administration, and they have a very specific policy agenda that I think is actually distinct from what a lot of the people who go to these rallies think is going to happen. Because when they go to these rallies, you know what Trump says, what his warmup speakers say, is that Harris and Biden are spending all this money on illegal immigrants, and your life is getting harder, but we're gonna take all that money, and we're gonna spend it on you instead. And that's not really what their plan is. So I think there's a sort of the circle around Trump, his sort of policy advisors, his activists, those types of people. They understand what the actual policy agenda is, which is a very traditional policy agenda of redistributing income upward, of cutting health care, of shrinking the welfare state in order to cut taxes for the.

Wealthy, the ones who benefit primarily from it as well. That's like the Elon Musk live in that first circle.

Precisely. And there's this other circle, these people who are true believers who show up to Trump rallies, and they love Trump and they believe that he is fighting for them, and that when he deals with all these people they have been told are their enemies, they're going to have much easier lives. And then there's sort of people I would describe as a sort of medium Republican voter who they may not love Trump, but they are conservative, they're anti abortion, maybe they own a business, they want lower taxes, they have conservative principles, and they sort of are talking themselves into voting for Trump by dismissing, you know, the things that he has done by saying, you know, Jan6. Okay, fine, you know, it was bad, but the media is exaggerating. You know, yeah, he says a lot of colorful things, but, you know, politicians lie all the time, and they sort of rationalize, you know, what Trump is, who is a, you know, he is a uniquely dangerous person. You know, I don't think every Republican is like Trump, but they sort of dismiss this because they want to give themselves permission to vote for him anyway. And I think those are the three elements of what I would describe as the Trump coalition. And I think, you know, tomorrow we're going to find out just how big those three circles are.

Now, you wrote a very influential and thoughtful piece called the Cruelty is the point in 2018. It sort of articulated this MAGA movement and people finding community around the cruelty that Trump espoused and some of his, some of his actions, that wasn't a byproduct of conservative values, but sort of the cruelty was what people did rally around. We are now years past that. Have we become comfortable with that cruelty? How has that cruelty changed?

I think that, you know, one of the attack lines that the Harris campaign has been using has been saying, oh, well, you know, people leave these Trump rallies early, and this sort of drives Trump insane. Now, now, to be clear, those people who are leaving, you know, those are Trump superfans. You know, the way someone else put it to me was like, you know, people with season tickets leave games early, too. So, you know, these are people who really love Trump, but traditionally, those teams.

Aren'T winning very often either.

That's.

That's true.

Yes, that's true. But I think that, you know, part of it is just that they're not totally there for him. I mean, he gives. What he gives them is permission to act out in ways that other people might judge Them for in a space where it's okay to do that, in a space where it's okay to be cruel, it's okay to be, you know, nasty about the people that you don't like or that you hate and fear. But I think that, you know, a lot of time people are shown up because they want to be around other people who think like them. They want to feel less alone. And I think that's, you know, that part of it is very human. And we're pretty much, you know, we're all social animals. We're all like that. I think, you know, the problem is, obviously, that it's centered around this man who has authoritarian ambitions and is willing to create this sort of fictional universe in order to manipulate people into doing, you know, justifying terrible things.

I think we. You talk a little bit in this most recent article about the MSG rally and the comedian who came on and told a joke that belittled Puerto Rico, called Puerto Rico garbage. And there was an uproar around this conversation. But I think what it was speaking to was what the sensibility in that room was, who he was appealing to. And I think as somebody who goes to so many of these rallies, so many of these rallies, there's a. There's a trolling sensibility there. The T shirts that you see are as mean as possible. They're belittling Kamala Harris, calling her an Joe. And the hoe was a big T shirt that they had. Like, the idea of being a troll is celebrated there. That's part of the fun. There's an ecstasy in the cruelty that happens at these events.

Right. They get to say the things that, you know, people might judge them for saying if they said them, you know, at their workplace or, you know, among their friends, depending on who their friends are. But in, you know, in this space, they get to say it, and, you know, Trump will encourage it, and they'll laugh at it, and everybody will have a good time. And so, you know, I just think, you know, that part of it certainly has not changed, but there is something different about the degree to which people are making decisions on the basis of things that simply are not happening. You know, when you talk about there's sort of this conspiracy about Harris and Biden flying in undocumented immigrants from other countries in order to sign them up to vote, I mean, that's just not a thing that's happened. But they do not have any compunctions about telling people these things, because that kind of. That's what justify, you know, These, this sort of conspiratorial world that they've created justifies, you know, some sort of radical action, like, say, trying to overturn an American election. Because after all, there are these shadowy elites who are trying to destroy, you know, the world as you know it.

Mm hmm. Do you know who those elites are?

Well, one of them is me, obviously. You. I. I'm obviously a part of you, the shadowy elite.

I knew you win people over when you say, you drop an article and everybody thinks you're cool and suddenly you have all that power.

And suddenly, you know, I'm a member of the Illuminati.

You have another article that's in the most recent print edition of the Atlantic that talks about this Republican informant state turning everybody into an informant. What is this snitch state that you're speaking to?

Well, I think, you know, before Roe v. Wade was overturned, there was this Texas ban that was passed. And I live in Texas, I live in San Antonio. And this ban that was passed that was based on the idea that if you had, you could file a lawsuit in court over someone aiding or abetting an abortion and you could get $10,000 for that. Now, that is a law that sort of incentivizes snitching. It's a snitch law. And what we found is laws in Texas and in other conservative states. You can look at Florida, they sort of incentivize this, informing on people for things that conservatives think should not be acceptable. And whether that's, you know, in some cases, they, you know, you talk about school curriculums or not just abortion, but discussing abortion. You know, a law like that is not just about making sure people don't have abortions, but it's about making sure people don't discuss them because you don't want somebody to sue you or sue someone you love on the basis of the fact that you paid for the Uber that took them to the airport, that they then got on a plane and went to Colorado to get an abortion because they couldn't get basic health care in their home state. And especially a couple years ago, Abbott put out this executive order defining gender affirming care for children as child abuse, which led to people, you know, one of the examples that was given to me was that a girl who was dressing in a gender nonconforming way, somebody, you know, reported her even though she wasn't even actually trans. She was just, you know, wearing pants or something. And this is the kind of, you know, this is the kind of environment that those laws create. Where it incentivizes these laws, incentivize people to snitch on their friends and neighbors, you know, in the hopes of recreating stigmas that I think, you know, are no longer in society in the way that they once were. Obviously, it was once very stigmatizing to have had an abortion. It was very, you know, we're not that far off from where it was not all right to be out as a gay person in American society, you know, or, for example, we are not too far. I mean, it's been four years. But the racial justice protests that happened in 2020 brought out a lot of ideas that some people would rather not discuss and would rather be shoved, you know, back into the dark. And so what you can do is you can't necessarily argue people out of believing those things, but you can pass a law that says, you know, you're not allowed to bring a book by Ta Nehisi Coates into the classroom, otherwise you might get fired.

Mm. Although, did you see this news about Peanuts the squirrel? And finally, Republicans are standing up to police brutality. Do you feel like that is. That's progress?

You know, I love animals and I'm very sad about Peanut the squirrel, but I really wish that the people who are very angry about Peanut the squirrel could extend some of that empathy for, you know, someone like Tamir Rice who gets killed by the police.

Ok. I don't know if you know this. Tomorrow's election day. Everyone I know has been anxious. Yeah, you gotta, you gotta watch the news, man.

I'm not paying attention.

You gotta pay. That's why I think they need to extend it. They need to be running for president for longer than what they've been, because informed people like you have no idea. It's happening.

At least two and a half years of election, three, four. You know, what's bad is like, that's sort of what we have now. Like, it's pretty awful.

Yeah. I think Over Trump has been running for over 700.

I thought you were going to say years.

To be honest, it feels like that. What do you think is going to happen tomorrow?

I have no idea. And I don't think anybody else knows either. If people are telling you that they know, I think they're not telling you the truth. You have the polling which is pointed towards a very tight race and you have non polling indicators that are saying maybe there's a little bit more of an advantage for Harris. But the fact is, you know, people are trying to read tea leaves from the early vote and that doesn't really work. The truth is we're not going to know what's going to happen until it happens. And everything. Most of the things that are, you know, most of the things that we are seeing right now point towards a very close race where it could go either way. Even if that map ends up looking very red or very blue, it's going to be, you know, it's not going to be by a whole lot of votes, if that makes any sense. Unfortunately, the way the Electoral college works is a few votes in a few states can swing the thing one way or the other.

Yeah. So who knows? But if you don't live in seven states, it doesn't matter what you do.

Unfortunately not.

America, baby. Check out, check out Adam's piece of the November issue of the Atlantic and the cruelty of the points available now. Adam sterworth, we're going to take a quick break right back after this. That's our show for tonight. Don't miss our live one hour election special tomorrow, hosted by Jon Stewart. Here it is.

Happy Election Eve to all those who celebrate. My goodness, it's Election Eve.

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