Fauci Takes the 5th Amendment While MAGA Cracks His Diary Open & Calls Him Hitler | Theo Baker

Summary

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The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: Fauci Takes the 5th Amendment While MAGA Cracks His Diary Open & Calls Him Hitler | Theo Baker
Date: July 31, 2026
Host: Jordan Klepper (with Michael Kosta and Theo Baker)

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Episode Overview

This episode balances biting satire and news commentary as the Daily Show team, led by Jordan Klepper and Michael Kosta, unpacks the recent political spectacles surrounding Dr. Anthony Fauci, whose diary entries were publicized by Senator Rand Paul, and the subsequent Congressional grilling that turned outright farcical. The segment is capped by an interview with Theo Baker, a young investigative journalist who exposed a major academic scandal at Stanford, followed by a humorous street segment regarding the “Greatest American of All Time.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Republican Obsession With Fauci and the Diary “Reveal”

Timestamps: 01:32–11:36

• The episode opens with mockery of Republicans remaining "stuck in 2020" and amplifying their vendetta against Dr. Anthony Fauci, especially via Senator Rand Paul's release of Fauci’s diary entries.
  • Notable Quote: “You guys remember Covid, that thing that briefly turned humans everywhere into alcoholic indoor cats?” (Michael Kosta, 01:36)
• The supposed bombshell diary entries are revealed to be mundane and even silly:
  • Fauci notes fame and media attention (“I am the most famous and talked about person in the country…” 03:01)
  • Fauci describes being called “sexier than Tyra Banks” on Instagram, which the team jokes about extensively.
    • Notable Quote: “If someone called me sexier than Tyra Banks, I'd write that in my diary.” (Michael Kosta, 04:19)
• The hosts lampoon the lack of substance in the diary scandal and pivot to how Republicans are now using it for performative outrage in Congress, with Senator Josh Hawley comparing Fauci to a “narcissist” and “amygdalomaniac” (05:59).

2. Congressional Hearing: Fauci Pleads the Fifth

Timestamps: 06:35–08:39

• The hosts ridicule the Congressional attempt to incriminate Fauci. Fauci, invoking his 5th Amendment rights, refuses to answer both serious and silly questions.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer.” (Dr. Fauci mock impression, repeated, 07:05+)
    • “What color tie are you wearing?” “On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer.” (07:14)
• A playful analysis ensues about body language and the absurdity of the spectacle.

3. Right-Wing Rhetoric: Fauci as ‘Hitler’ and ‘Mass Murderer’

Timestamps: 08:39–11:36

• The show parodies fringe right-wing claims, with soundbites of Fauci’s critics blaming him for “millions of deaths” and calling him “guilty of mass murder and crimes against humanity on the scale of a Hitler and Joseph Mengele.”
  • Notable Quote: “Fauci's guilty of mass murder and crimes against humanity on a scale of a Hitler and a Joseph Mengele.” (11:09)
• The hosts flip the logic, noting, satirically, that blame for America’s Covid response could also be laid at the feet of then-President Trump, with clips of Trump repeatedly praising Fauci.
  • “He was the guy who was president during the pandemic. And he also thought Fauci was sexier than Tyra Banks.” (11:16)

4. The Political Weaponization of Public Health

Timestamps: 11:36–14:23

• Criticism shifts to the perils of politicizing health policy. Republican-led cuts to key public health agencies are reported, as the hosts warn that defeating future pandemics requires bipartisan cooperation, not finger-pointing.
  • Notable Quote: “Instead of looking for partisan scapegoats for the last pandemic, how about we for once work together to find out how we can focus on preventing the next one?” (13:50)
• The segment ends by lampooning the futility of blaming Fauci and reiterates the dangers of treating public health as a partisan issue.

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"Greatest American of All Time" Street Segment

Timestamps: 16:08–20:00

• In a light-hearted detour, Michael Kosta and Jordan Klepper ask New Yorkers to name the greatest American ever.
  • Answers vary from Lana Del Rey, LeBron James, Conan O’Brien, John Brown, Teddy Roosevelt, to Duke Ellington and Bruce Springsteen.
• The hosts push for “Uncle Jesse” (John Stamos), humorously connecting him to various icons.
  • Memorable Moment: Each answer is (often tortuously) linked back to John Stamos, with the running joke that he’s at the center of the American celebrity universe.
  • “It’s like Kevin Bacon, except it’s John Stamos.” (Jordan Klepper, 18:48)
• On-the-street banter is playful and improvisational, with self-deprecating humor from both Kosta and Klepper.

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Interview: Investigative Journalist Theo Baker

Timestamps: 21:17–32:14

Context:
Theo Baker, 21, author of "How to Rule: An Education and Power at Stanford University,” discusses his explosive reporting as an undergraduate.

a. Baker's Book and Stanford’s Corporate Culture

• Baker outlines how his book is “three books in one”—an ethnography of Stanford’s elite startup scene, an investigative drama, and a coming-of-age memoir.
  • “I went to Stanford as a coder. … This book is part this sort of insider cultural ethnography … part investigative drama … and a Bildungsroman of sorts.” (Theo Baker, 22:14)
• He details Stanford’s draconian social bureaucracy (e.g., the “Party Review Committee”), and how student life is increasingly regulated.
  • “Now to host something at Stanford … you have to take a class and pass an exam to be able to apply three weeks in advance to the Party Review Committee, which only meets once a week, on Tuesdays, to approve all student events.” (23:17)

b. Venture Capital, Pre-idea Funding, and Teenage Billionaires

• Kosta and Baker marvel at teenagers landing massive VC investments, often based more on being anointed as “builders” than on actual ideas.
  • Notable Quote:
    • “A 15 person team of 20-year-olds and … six months later, it’s valued at a billion dollars.” (Theo Baker, 25:37)
  • Baker explains “pre-idea funding”—VCs giving students blank checks based simply on perceived promise.
    • “Pre-idea funding is really what it sounds like. … If you make a company with it, call us and we’ll invest more.” (Theo Baker, 26:11)

c. Breaking the Stanford President Plagiarism Scandal

• Baker recounts his investigation into Stanford President Marc Tessier-Lavigne’s research, which led to the president’s resignation.
  • “I discovered over the course of about eight months … a pattern of falsified research that had emerged under his purview at different labs.” (Theo Baker, 27:12)

d. The Weirdness and Ethics of Being a Student Investigating Your Own University

• Challenges include building trust as a teen journalist, doors slammed in his face, and the oddity of being a pariah/celebrity inside his own community.
• Baker emphasizes the value of journalistic inquiry, even against powerful local institutions:
  • “It is a special thing to be a 17 year old and to feel as if you can ask questions of people in power and hopefully do some good for your community by doing so.” (Theo Baker, 29:11)

e. The Fallout, Support, and What’s Next

• Baker credits his journalist parents for their support, despite initial skepticism.
• Kosta and Baker joke about the difficulty of finding a next step after such a high-profile scoop.
• Baker wants his reporting to spark conversations about “the Faustian bargain that Stanford has made with Silicon Valley.” (Theo Baker, 32:04)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

Michael Kosta (01:36): “You guys remember Covid, that thing that briefly turned humans everywhere into alcoholic indoor cats?”

Jordan Klepper (05:04): “Had great call with Barbra Streisand. I told her that I work listening to her songs on Alexa. She really did not know what Alexa was. I accidentally butt called her later in the evening.”

Jordan Klepper (13:50): “How about instead of looking for partisan scapegoats for the last pandemic, how about we for once work together to find out how we can focus on preventing the next one?”

Michael Kosta (23:17): “Now to host something at Stanford … you have to take a class and pass an exam to be able to apply three weeks in advance to the Party Review Committee.”

Theo Baker (25:14): “The money is outrageous and it’s really just…vested in the hands of teenagers.”

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Structure & Tone

The episode is a sharp, satirical tour through politics and pop culture, blending irreverence, incredulous humor, and moments of earnest insight—especially during the Theo Baker interview. Panel banter, quick sketch riffs, and whip-smart analogies keep the tone snappy and engaging throughout, making the news entertaining without losing underlying seriousness.

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Key Takeaways

• The Republican campaign against Fauci continues, but the actual “evidence” is petty; the diary entries are mostly personal and mundane.
• Congressional hearings are exposed as media theater, with Fauci staying silent and critics resorting to hyperbolic, even conspiratorial, accusations.
• Weaponizing public health for partisan points endangers future pandemic preparedness, especially as critical agencies face cuts and brain drain.
• On a lighter note, defining “the greatest American” quickly devolves into an extended, affectionate John Stamos gag.
• Theo Baker’s interview provides a rare, detailed glimpse into the intersection of youth, privilege, institutional power, and the pitfalls and promise of student investigative journalism.

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For listeners who missed the episode, this summary covers the satirical highlights, the social commentary, and the informative interview, capturing the episode’s spirit and substance.

Transcript

[Jordan Klepper]

Foreign.

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[Michael Kosta]

Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Gordon Platform. We got so much to talk about tonight. Republicans are still stuck in 2020. Anthony Fauci Social distances himself from questions. And we reveal the greatest American of all time. Shocker. It's not a gun made of ground beef. So let's get into the headlines, America. You guys remember Covid, that thing that briefly turned humans everywhere into alcoholic indoor ca. Remember that era where we lost friends and family to the Joe Rogan experience? We were trying to flatten the curve or delta, the omicron or whatever the we were trying to do. Regardless, I know that Republicans remember Covid because ever since the pandemic, they've been calling for the arrest of Dr. Anthony Fauci, who spearheaded America's Covid response. And this week, one of his biggest haters escalated things. Senator Rand Paul has released Anthony Fauci's diary entries. Ooh. Dr. Fauci's diaries are out in the open for anyone to read. It's going to have all the juice, the evidence and reveal which variant he had a crush on. Now, if Rand Paul released Fauci's diaries, they must reveal something incriminating. So let's hear what Dr. Anthony Fauci was trying to keep secret. Fauci writing.

[Commercial Announcer]

It is not hyperbole to say that

[Michael Kosta]

today I am the most famous and

[Commercial Announcer]

talked about person in the country and one of the most recognizable.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, yeah. It's not really a secret. Everyone knew. Everyone knew that. I mean, I literally saw Fauci more than I saw my parents, mostly because they couldn't figure out how to turn on the zoom camera. Uh, what else you got? He said, quote, the press still hot and heavy about me.

[Commercial Announcer]

Multiple stories per day, directly or indirectly involving me.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, again, he was famous. We know that a lot of us had Fauci fever. The pandemic made us say crazy things or wear crazy things. You know, come on, come on. I'm looking for something with substance, not just embarrassing gossip.

[Theo Baker]

In another diary entry, Tony is writing

[Jordan Klepper]

about an Instagram post with supermodel Tyra Banks. And Tony Fauci wrote, quote, one person said that Tyra was very sexy, but that I was even more sexy than she was.

[Michael Kosta]

Come. Come on. Are we supposed to be surprised that Fauci wrote about being called sexier than Tyra Banks?

[Theo Baker]

If.

[Michael Kosta]

If someone called me sexier than Tyra Banks, I'd write that in my diary. You know what I'd write about being called sexier than Carlton Banks. I might even write about being compared favorably to a Bank of America. I. I have very low self esteem. Honestly, this just sounds like an old man not realizing how unhinged Instagram comments can be. Then another commenter used an eggplant and a water splashing emoji to, from what I understand, emulate an ejaculating PE. Needless to say, a great honor. Look, Rand Paul, Dr. Paul, DJ Pauli. Rand. We don't. We don't care about Fauci's interactions with celebrities. Give us some entries with answers.

[Jordan Klepper]

Had great call with Barbra Streisand. I told her that I work listening to her songs on Alexa. She really did not know what Alexa was. I accidentally butt called her later in the evening.

[Michael Kosta]

You butt dialed? The Barbra Streisand? The funny, The Dolly Levi, The Gentil Mendel, The Esther Hoffman Howard. So basically, these diary entries didn't reveal any shocking revelations about Fauci's criminal negligence or intent. But that didn't stop Republicans from dragging Fauci into Congress yesterday and grandstanding on it. Somewhere along the line, it became all about you. You became a narcissist, an amygdalomaniac, and a liar. And you've lied to the American people and you've lied to this body. Wow. Strong start. Senator Josh Hawley. And by the way, I love the hair. I love it. Something about that hair, it just makes you look super cool, man. And smart. All you need to do now is bring it home. Hit him with a closing line that makes everyone stand up and cheer. You've done More to harm science than anybody in my lifetime. And I hope you'll go home and write that in your diary.

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[Michael Kosta]

Is this thing on? Is this thing not on? Let's see, let's see. Anyone here been to Wuhan? Anybody? Anybody? Of course, Republicans weren't just there for political theater. They were hoping to get Fauci to say something on the record that they could use to incriminate him. Unfortunately for them, Fauci had an answer for everything. Excuse me, One answer for everything. Are you disappointed how you handle Covid?

[Theo Baker]

Do you have any regrets?

[Michael Kosta]

On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer.

[Jordan Klepper]

Based upon my rights under the fifth

[Michael Kosta]

amendment to the constitution. On the advice of counsel, I respectfully, respectfully decline.

[Jordan Klepper]

Decline to Decline to answer.

[Michael Kosta]

Under the fifth amendment, I respectfully decline to answer. What color tie are you wearing? On the advice of counsel, I respectfully decline to answer. Oh, ok. All right. Oh, you won't talk, huh? Don't worry, boys. I got a question for him. Dr. Fauci, what's your favorite Barbra Streisand song? I respectfully decline to answer. Dammit. He's good. He's very good. So Fauci answered every question by invoking his right to remain silent. Well, nice try, document, but your silence speaks volumes. I'm no body language expert, but we're gonna have one in a few minutes. Let me show you this. You ever see Mr. Burns on the Simpsons? I still love the Simpsons. And he did this thing with the hands a lot. Fingertips on fingertips. What do you make of that? It says something. It has to say something, right? Otherwise this whole segment would be stupid. I look like the biggest dipshit on tv. And while I have a body language expert here, the president going like this. That's normal, right? Gotta be. It is. It has to be. This is weird. Normal. Weird, normal. You know, I'm getting confused here. I'm getting confused. What is it that Dr. Fauci did that is so heinous that you are still trying to get him six years afterwards?

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, he did fund gain of function

[Michael Kosta]

research at a sloppy lab where a virus escaped and left a million Americans dead, complicit in the deaths of millions of people. The guy killed or had something to do with killing 9 million people. Okay? Wow. That's right. Okay. He engineered the virus that killed millions and millions of people because it was so deadly a threat to everyone.

[Theo Baker]

The COVID virus was simply not a

[Michael Kosta]

threat to most people. My spidey senses about him, about the

[Jordan Klepper]

entire scamdemic were accurate.

[Michael Kosta]

A lot of us that Covid was a flu to tell kids they couldn't go to school for years for no reason.

[Jordan Klepper]

Dr. Fauci lied about his own personal views, shutting down the country for a

[Michael Kosta]

virus he knew wasn't that deadly. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. See, it's deadly. And it didn't matter. And millions died, but it was fine. And God, my head hurts. Okay, My ears are bleeding. And are those symptoms of the deadly virus that doesn't matter. I just don't understand. Can someone try again to tell us what was in these diary entries?

[Theo Baker]

If you read the stories in the

[Michael Kosta]

so called mainstream press about the Fauci diaries, you will see an exact parallel to the Biden. I. I'm sorry, I am sorry. I'm sorry. I can't hear you over the pipe. What's going on here? Are you guys.

[Theo Baker]

Are you guys.

[Michael Kosta]

Are you guys trying to solve Covid or a murder on the Orient Express? But enough about Dr. Fauci. Shall we retire to the hot tub, my dear boy? Shut. Listen, guys, can we dial this back a bit? I'm not saying Anthony Fauci made no mistakes, but it's not like the man is Hitler. Fauci's guilty of mass murder and crimes against humanity on a scale of a Hitler and a Joseph Mengele. Okay, I stand corrected. Fun fact, Hitler also committed all his crimes to meet Barbra Streisand. Fun fact. By the way, if you think America's response to Covid was really that horrible, is there someone other than Fauci you might put some blame on? Maybe somebody Fauci worked for. Could even be somebody you may have met one or two or three, four, five times. Maybe a little turnaround in the room might jag your memory. No, that'll Trump. He, he. He was the guy who was president during the pandemic. And he also thought Fauci was sexier than Tyra Banks. He's a good man. I like Dr. Fauci a lot. He's been doing a very good job. We're very happy with Dr. Fauci and I have a lot of respect for Dr. Fauci and I have to pay tribute.

[Jordan Klepper]

We have.

[Michael Kosta]

Whether it's Dr. Fauci, we have the best people on earth. Normally when Trump praises something like that that highly, he just had his broker buy a ton of stock in it. And look, this is not to say Donald Trump is the one big villain of COVID There. There is no one big villain of COVID Well, except maybe Covid. He was a Bad dude. It was an unprecedented pandemic that we spent years stumbling through trying to find some patchwork of solutions that would protect our health while keeping our society from total collapse. Did our leaders make mistakes? Of course they did. Should we try to find out what we did wrong? Of course. But that was not what was happening with Republicans this week. They were doing the only thing we do anymore. Shove a complex issue through a performative partisan filter. But it's not going to do anything for us to throw Anthony Fauci in prison. It's not even going to do that much to Anthony Fauci. I mean, threatening an 85 year old with life in prison, that's kind of like putting a kid in timeout 10 minutes before school is over. In fact, coding public health as a partisan issue is incredibly dangerous because we've already seen what happens when a party comes in thinking that public health is the other party's issue. The Trump administration has started carrying out mass layoffs at the Department of Health and Human Services. The cuts will impact roughly 3,500 workers at the FDA, 2,400 at the CDC, and 1,200 at the NIH, canceling almost $500 million in fund for 22 projects focused on developing MRNA vaccines. An Office established to prepare the nation for future pandemics is reportedly down to just one staffer. The source says it's not clear who that person reports to. There's one guy left. This is why we are losing a diarrhea ward to lettuce. It's the flimsiest vegetable. It's the flimsiest vegetable. So here's the point, Americ. How about instead of looking for partisan scapegoats for the last pandemic, how about we for once work together to find out how we can focus on preventing the next one? I think that, that, that that whole thing is a plan even Dr. Fauci could agree with. What do you say, Doc? I respectfully decline to answer. Gotcha. Saving it for the diary. I get it. We come back, we find out who's the greatest American of all time. Don.

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[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back. Welcome back to the Daily Show. As we celebrate America's 250th birthday this year, we have to wonder who was our nation's greatest American. Well, Michael Kosta found out.

[Jordan Klepper]

In honor of America's 250th birthday, I'm hitting the streets of New York City to ask Americans who they think the greatest American of all time is. And there's only one right answer. Who is the greatest American of all time?

[Theo Baker]

I think it's Lana del Rey.

[Jordan Klepper]

John Brown. I would say Teddy Roosevelt.

[Michael Kosta]

No.

[Jordan Klepper]

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. No. No more Roosevelts.

[Michael Kosta]

LeBron James.

[Jordan Klepper]

LeBron James is pretty good. That's pretty good. But no, it's so obvious.

[Michael Kosta]

It's gotta be Conan o'.

[Theo Baker]

Brien.

[Jordan Klepper]

I didn't say who's your favorite? I said the greatest American of all time.

[Michael Kosta]

John.

[Jordan Klepper]

Mother Stamos.

[Michael Kosta]

That's right.

[Jordan Klepper]

The greatest American of all time is obviously actor, musician, and everyone's celebrity hall pass.

[Michael Kosta]

John Stamos. Have mercy.

[Jordan Klepper]

Troy, where are you from?

[Michael Kosta]

I'm from Reno, Nevada.

[Jordan Klepper]

Who is the greatest American of all time?

[Michael Kosta]

Duke Ellington.

[Jordan Klepper]

I'm thinking of someone else. Maybe. Someone could be alive. Could be someone in your field division. Could be everywhere you look. Do you know who that is?

[Theo Baker]

I don't.

[Michael Kosta]

Go back to Reno.

[Jordan Klepper]

Go back to Reno, Troy. Well, I can tell you who the greatest American isn't.

[Michael Kosta]

Who's that?

[Jordan Klepper]

Troy, I can't believe you're here, man. I mean, we've been talking about you all day. I just can't believe.

[Michael Kosta]

I'm sorry. You only DMed me about 40 times. You emailed me.

[Jordan Klepper]

You text.

[Michael Kosta]

I don't know how you got my number, but I got a bunch of texts from you.

[Jordan Klepper]

Who's America's favorite uncle?

[Michael Kosta]

Maybe.

[Commercial Announcer]

Maybe.

[Michael Kosta]

Sam.

[Jordan Klepper]

No. Professor Fester. No. No.

[Michael Kosta]

Uncle Jeff.

[Jordan Klepper]

Jeff.

[Commercial Announcer]

Joey.

[Michael Kosta]

He wasn't uncle on the uncle. He was an uncle. Uncle.

[Jordan Klepper]

Uncle Jesse. Say Uncle Jesse. Uncle Jesse. Look at this.

[Michael Kosta]

This is him.

[Jordan Klepper]

Uncle Jesse.

[Michael Kosta]

That was easy.

[Jordan Klepper]

I'm gonna say Barack Obama. I'm thinking more someone who is a TV star may have played the bongos with the beach boys, initials J.S. hi. Hi.

[Theo Baker]

I don't really know him.

[Jordan Klepper]

You don't? John Stamos. Uncle Jesse.

[Michael Kosta]

I've heard of the name.

[Jordan Klepper]

He's gone.

[Michael Kosta]

I know the name.

[Jordan Klepper]

Every single person that has talked about the greatest American of all time, John Stamos, is connected to that. Wow.

[Michael Kosta]

Give me a name.

[Theo Baker]

Bruce Springsteen.

[Jordan Klepper]

Bruce Springsteen. Go. How?

[Michael Kosta]

I played with Bruce Springsteen.

[Jordan Klepper]

He played drums with Bruce Springsteen. Give me another one.

[Theo Baker]

Lincoln.

[Jordan Klepper]

Lincoln.

[Michael Kosta]

What did I do?

[Jordan Klepper]

Abraham Lincoln was the president. So was Ronald Reagan. John Stamos played the campaign manager for Ronald Reagan in his biopic Pick.

[Theo Baker]

Wow.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's like Kevin Bacon, except it's John Stamos.

[Michael Kosta]

Right?

[Jordan Klepper]

Should we get a picture? Oh, you want to do a picture? Let's do a picture. Get a picture. Oh, sure.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay. I'll take it.

[Jordan Klepper]

I got it. John Stamos. You know.

[Michael Kosta]

Here we go.

[Jordan Klepper]

I can do selfies, too, if anybody wants. Does anybody want to do a selfie?

[Michael Kosta]

Unbelievable.

[Jordan Klepper]

I hold a baby and people call the FBI. Look at this.

[Michael Kosta]

I'm a baby whisperer.

[Jordan Klepper]

You are a baby whisperer. Come here.

[Michael Kosta]

How we do?

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay.

[Michael Kosta]

Kosta, what are you doing?

[Jordan Klepper]

He seems fidgety.

[Michael Kosta]

Here, here. Well, don't attack the baby. Cause she's trying.

[Jordan Klepper]

I guess I'm not good with babies. Not as good as John Stamos. Tell me, greatest American of all time.

[Michael Kosta]

I have a picture to show you. It's that guy right there. Hey, that's me.

[Jordan Klepper]

What?

[Michael Kosta]

She has a picture with me.

[Jordan Klepper]

She has a picture.

[Michael Kosta]

It was in 2015.

[Jordan Klepper]

2015.

[Commercial Announcer]

2015.

[Jordan Klepper]

I got to spend all day with you, man. I can't believe it.

[Michael Kosta]

I love Stamos. Thank you for having me.

[Jordan Klepper]

Why don't we grab a beer next door?

[Michael Kosta]

I don't have time for that. I'm gonna split the.

[Commercial Announcer]

Thank you.

[Jordan Klepper]

You gotta get lunch. You might as well come.

[Michael Kosta]

I'm not that hungry.

[Theo Baker]

Thanks.

[Michael Kosta]

Yo, can I borrow your bike?

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank you, John Stamos. I love you, man. Love you, John Stamos.

[Michael Kosta]

We're gonna get a beer later, maybe.

[Jordan Klepper]

Possibly. I love John Stamos.

[Michael Kosta]

Have mercy. Oh, have mercy. Michael, when we Come back. Theo Baker will be glad to be on the show. Don'.

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[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is an award winning investigative journalist and best selling author of how to Rule the An Education and Power at Stanford University. Please welcome Theo Baker. Theo, this is a very impressive book. I can't stop talking about this book. You're 22 years old.

[Theo Baker]

21.

[Michael Kosta]

You're 21 years old.

[Theo Baker]

I can drink at least.

[Michael Kosta]

You can drink. Oh, very good. Is that a proposition?

[Theo Baker]

You know, now that I'm out of college, it's not as attractive. I mean, you know.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. Now, unless you're pushing back against something, what is it?

[Theo Baker]

Exactly. Exactly.

[Michael Kosta]

Right. You're 21 years old.

[Theo Baker]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

You wrote this book about your freshman year at Stanford. It's remarkable. You've described this as three books in one. Give us a breakdown of what those books are.

[Theo Baker]

Yeah, yeah. So I went to Stanford as a coder. Right. I thought I was gonna be part of the whole milieu of the kids who are making the startups and changing the world and all that stuff.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Theo Baker]

And so this book is part this sort of insider cultural ethnography, this look at this really bizarre insider world that controls so much influence over our technology. It's part. That part of it is this investigative drama as I start looking into the research of the president of Stanford University, eventually leading not to spoil the outcome with his resignation.

[Michael Kosta]

Ye.

[Theo Baker]

Then the third part of the book is sort of a Bildungsroman of sorts. Right. I thought I was gonna do UCs, got dragged into journalism. A lot of weird stuff happened along the way.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, yeah. You take down the president of Stanford in this Thing. Weird stuff. Weird stuff, Yeah. I was doing very similar things when I was 18 as well. You know, we had a real activist improv group at my college. It starts off, you don't go in thinking you're gonna. And then you write this story on the war on Woke that was happening on campus. Talk to me a bit about that.

[Theo Baker]

Yeah. So I thought I would join the student newspaper on a lark. And the war on Fun was my first big story. This is the crackdown on all facets of student life. Now to host something at Stanford, right, You have to take a class and pass an exam to be able to apply three weeks in advance to the Party Review committee, which is a great acronym for what it is, the prc, which only meets once a week on Tuesdays to approve all student events. I really love that detail. On Tuesdays. Right. They only meet on Tuesdays. And the six university departments say, hey, are your few balloons going to cause too much of a fire risk? Of course, the end result of that is the sort of death of many of the casual social interactions that many people come to college expecting.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. I mean, when you were going to college, were you hoping for just a fun experience to kind of let your hair down and be a normal college kid?

[Theo Baker]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

And you're like, oh, now I need to take down bureaucracy and go after the man.

[Theo Baker]

Look, I mean, I was a nerd, obviously. I think I was the kind of kid who would like, I would work on a machine learning model in high school and call that like a fun Friday night.

[Jordan Klepper]

And

[Michael Kosta]

that was me in college, but not high school. Yeah.

[Theo Baker]

I've learned something of the folly of my ways. But it was really weird because it was my sort of first brush with the corporatization of the modern university. Right. That student actually.

[Jordan Klepper]

Right.

[Theo Baker]

We're teenagers. We're going about the ordinary course of coming of age. But at Stanford, you're a commodity too. You're something to be monetized. And a huge amount of money can be made off of these promising 17 and 18 year olds.

[Michael Kosta]

It was shocking to read about it. I'm a father and thinking about college for my kid way down the line. And to hear about, like, you arrive at Stanford and essentially all these venture capitalists are throwing just gobs of money at the students. And there tend to be these small groups within the university that essentially are picking who is going to be the billionaires of tomorrow and not even tomorrow. This is happening today. Right. Were you shocked by just how cutthroat it became and the money that was There. Yeah.

[Theo Baker]

No, the money is outrageous and it's really just. It's bizarre because it's vested in the hands of teenagers. Like the kid who taught me how to shotgun a beer freshman year, the frat guy. Really bad influence. Not at all. No, he's a great guy, but he drops out and he starts a company and six months later it's valued at a billion dollars for this 15 person team of 20 year olds and you know, all power to the guy. I hope he succeeds, but.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, he already has.

[Theo Baker]

Well, there you go. But it's amazing, right? For a certain cohort of students, right? Those who are tapped on the shoulder and plucked from the crowd, those who are deemed the builders, not the want a preneurs, right? The people who are just doing it because they think they can. There are yacht parties, there are slush funds. And the newest new thing when I arrived at Stanford was something called pre idea funding.

[Michael Kosta]

This I want to know more about because I have no ideas and if I can monetize that, that would be perfect. What is pre idea funding?

[Theo Baker]

Pre idea funding is really what it sounds like. Even though it sounds absurd, it is exactly what these people are doing. They will say, hey, here's a one page or two page agreement, it's called a safe check and if you make a company with it, call us and we'll invest more. It doesn't give them a particular amount of equity in the company. It guarantees them the right. Right to purchase more in the future. And if you don't end up creating the company with it or collapse, it never has to be paid back.

[Michael Kosta]

This is remarkable. There's so many themes in here. It makes me think a lot about AI and how much money is being spent on the possibility of something else, but nothing actually being made. And then this sort of dovetails with what you discovered with Stanford's president at the time. When did you catch a whiff that something was awry?

[Theo Baker]

Yeah. So I was a few weeks into freshman year and had written a few stories for the school newspaper and I got wind of these anonymous posts that had taken place seven years earlier on this forum called PubPeer. This is where scientists dissect published research papers and they said, hey, there are some images in these papers that were co authored by Stanford's then president, Marc Tassey Levine, that because he was a neuroscientist, he is a famous neuroscientist and an extremely wealthy entrepreneur. This guy's worth hundreds of millions of dollars. And I discovered over the course of about eight Months of investigative journalism, a pattern of falsified research that had emerged under his purview at different labs and that at various places as the eventual Stanford investigation concluded, when he was given the opportunity to correct the scientific record, he failed to decisively and forthrightly do so.

[Michael Kosta]

And we're talking about Alzheimer's research that as you're looking closer and closer, it just doesn't, it just doesn't add up. Right.

[Theo Baker]

So one of the big stories that I reported on was this famous study that had claimed to identify the cause of Alzheimer's disease. So they're pumping this up at a shareholder meeting at the time. And this executive, Richard Scheller, calls it the greatest discovery made in Alzheimer's research in 20 years, maybe ever. Right. And as I discovered in my research, of course, that was not exactly what the paper ended up being.

[Michael Kosta]

Now you're doing research here, but you're a college student. You're calling around, checking sources. Like, what is it like being a member, a journalist, but a journalist for a college paper, trying to get people to talk to you. Does that make sense? Do you make it easier in some ways because people are gracious to a college student or are you getting doors shut in your face all the time?

[Theo Baker]

I had more than a few doors slammed in my face. Absolutely. You know, it's a really weird thing to say, hey, I'm a 17 year old and then an 18 year old and you should trust me with your secrets. Right? Like you should tell me these things that you signed NDAs not to tell people about. Maybe, you know, that you, you know, I'm someone that wants to listen and hear what is there. You know, it takes time to build credibility. But basically, I think what I discovered, the main lesson I took away from freshman year is that like journalism more than anything else is a disposition. Right. And it's, I think you in your interviews are demonstrating that better than so many of us journalism.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, you misunderstand this completely. I thought you are showing your youth there. Theo thought you were sharper than that. Well, that's kind of you to say. It's curious. You come from. Your parents are famous generations journalists. I'm curious what they thought about you going down this path.

[Theo Baker]

My parents are endlessly supportive. There is a reason that I wanted to go 3,000 miles away from home and study computer science. It was really funny. So I came back at Thanksgiving and I said, hey, I've been working on this investigation into the president and I've been working with these forensic image analysts and there might Be something there. And my dad is a lovely, lovely guy. And he, he said very intelligently, he said, this is a world renowned scientist and you're a 17 year old kid. Maybe start with a professor. And I didn't listen then, but my parents have been super supportive and I'm lucky. I know it's not popular right now, I know journalism doesn't always get the great reputation that I might like, but it is a special thing to be a 17 year old and to feel as if you can ask questions of people in power and hopefully do some good for your community by doing so.

[Michael Kosta]

It's truly remarkable. I'm curious though. It really is. And I was a thing I very much enjoyed about in reading it is following you through the journalistic process. You know, so many books drop you in the middle. People have been doing this for so long and you're remarkably astute in doing it. But we sort of watch you find break and find your break stories and also find your footing as to how to tell these stories. All the while you are investigating the president of Stanford. Writing about the president of Stanford. You just graduated from Stanford.

[Theo Baker]

I did.

[Michael Kosta]

What is it like going to school at the place that you are investigating?

[Theo Baker]

It's weird, right? It's, you know, in some ways, right, I'm lucky. Like at Stanford there are students who are like actually famous, right? Like Eileen Gu is my classmate and you know, like I think when her birthday, her last birthday, they put her face up on all the billboards in Times Square. So I was more like a zoo animal, which is sort of, it's a weird position to be in. There are a lot of I's, especially because I didn't mean to be a journalist. I really like did not set out to be in this position.

[Michael Kosta]

Why didn't you just pick the acapella group, man? Right.

[Theo Baker]

I don't think I have the voice for it. I hate to say it, but look, it's also a really special thing to belong to a community that you care about. I've loved Stanford since I was seven. That's when I fell in love with Stanford. And you know, I think if you love a place, you want it to be better. And that was a lot of the reason why I stuck it out and why, you know, it was important for me to put out this book while I was still a student there. Not to do the thing where you leave and you dish on all the people you've just been friends with. It's like, no, this is what I've encountered. This is what my reporting shows and I think it's important to talk about it now.

[Michael Kosta]

You just graduated. I'm curious what is next? Is it grad school? I can't imagine any school would want you to come.

[Theo Baker]

Yeah, friendship branches.

[Michael Kosta]

It's little tough, I'm sure. Then what happened?

[Theo Baker]

I don't know. I don't know. I'm, you know, enjoying the ride while I'm on it and trying to hopefully start some conversations about, you know, this Faustian bargain that Stanford has made with Silicon Valley.

[Michael Kosta]

I love it. It's truly a remarkable book. I highly recommend it. How to Rule the World is available now. Theo Baker we're gonna take a quick break, right?

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[Michael Kosta]

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[Jordan Klepper]

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[Michael Kosta]

That's our show for tonight. Now here it is. It's a very strange feeling going through somebody else's diary. Actually, it's he didn't want us to read this thing. I think it was notes for a great big book that he planned to make maybe 10 or 15 million dollars off of. We can go through it. Explore more shows from the Daily Show

[Jordan Klepper]

Podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

[Michael Kosta]

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