Hantavirus Is Not the Next Covid, But Try Telling That to the News Media | Josh Tyrangiel

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: Hantavirus Is Not the Next Covid, But Try Telling That to the News Media | Josh Tyrangiel
Date: May 12, 2026
Host: Jon Stewart
Guest: Josh Tyrangiel, journalist & author

---

Episode Overview

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition is anchored by Jon Stewart and the Daily Show news team, focusing on two main topics:

1. Media Hysteria Over Hantavirus: Satirically dissecting the recent overblown media coverage of a hantavirus outbreak on a cruise ship, Stewart contrasts expert reassurances with the media’s appetite for panic and spectacle.

2. AI For Good: The Interview with Josh Tyrangiel: Stewart welcomes journalist Josh Tyrangiel to discuss his new book on positive real-world uses of AI, cutting through the doomsaying and hype for a grounded, public-minded conversation about artificial intelligence and its future.

---

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Media Panic Over the Hantavirus Outbreak

• Presidential approval humor: Stewart opens with comedic jabs at the president’s low approval rating (“...he’s a dick and the war in Iran, the ongoing energy crisis in his own body. Weekend adonis.” [01:10])
• Golden Trump statue satire: Commentary on Trump’s loyal base and literal idolatry with a gold statue, poking fun at the “golden calf” reference ([03:01]).
• Transition to viral panic: Stewart pivots to recent headlines about a hantavirus outbreak on a cruise ship ([04:00]).

Hantavirus vs. Media Sensationalism

• Stewart skewers news coverage exaggerating the threat of hantavirus, contrasting scientific explanations with panic-inducing broadcasts.
• Expert assessment: “It’s not like Covid. It’s not like measles. It’s not a very efficient transmission. The overall risk to the public is low.” ([05:10])
• Stewart: “I’m glad we don’t have to be hysterical about it. Covid was a respiratory virus ... Hantavirus is a known virus, it’s difficult to transmit, it’s mostly spread by rat infestation ... raises the question, how did a cruise ship end up with hantavirus on it?” ([05:40])
• Stewart jokes about the origin story: “What cruise line offers day trip landfill excursions? ... Seagull. Seagull. Used condom. Cerulean warbler. Nope, that’s a used condom.” ([06:31])

Anxiety for Ratings

• News wants drama: “Reality don’t sell papers … what are we doing Wednesday through Friday?” ([07:50])
• WHO’s calm dismissed: “The WHO has been vocal in saying this is not another pandemic.” ([08:08])
• Media cherry-picking: Stewart notes experts consistently downplay risk, but TV programs like Nightline insist on stoking fear anyway ([09:00], [10:55]):
  • “A dream vacation turning into a floating nightmare.”
  • Stewart: “The news experts say stay calm, but the news media says no, we prefer panic.” ([12:05])

Mocking TV Coverage

• Stewart lampoons breathless logistics coverage—from “drone video” to “showing us buses the passengers aren’t even on” ([13:08])
• “The wheels on this bus go round and round … and can you ask, will that be all through the town? I believe it will, Jim.” ([13:13])
• Describes the “quarantine” setup: “Private bathrooms, exercise equipment, Wi-Fi. Oh, maybe we should all get the hantavirus.” ([15:45])

Media’s Relentless Cycle

• Stewart parodies news segments that mash together unrelated things (Mother’s Day and hantavirus):
  • “Pandemic panic. Happy Mother’s Day. Tell your mom you love her, but also keep your eyes on her because you don’t know if she’s got it or not.” ([16:28])
• Interview clips: Experts repeat over and over that the risk is low, but the press keeps asking the same “Are we all going to die?” variants ([17:32], [18:26]).
• Stewart: “Although it is important to note, this virus can cause chronic fatigue syndrome, mostly amongst the experts who have to repeatedly answer the same questions.” ([18:18])
• Summing up:
  • “Remember the old big screen body counts? ... Now the counts are back. Not as compelling. There’s one person who tested positive. A separate person showed symptoms, but ... one positive and one runny nose.” ([19:00])

Perspective

• Stewart closes: “It’s fine. It’s not a thing. Go about your lives … go on a cruise if you want. Meanwhile, a norovirus outbreak on board a different cruise ship...” ([19:30])

---

2. Interview with Josh Tyrangiel: “AI for Good”

Segment Begins: [22:45]

The Promise and Perils of AI

• On public fear: Stewart sets the stage—AI as the new “boogeyman,” widely derided and feared (“AI is reputationally right now... people are very concerned. I saw it booed at a graduation speech...” [22:55])
• Tyrangiel’s journey: “A couple months into reporting [on AI]... I was like, what the hell is this good for? ... Is there anything in between [utopia and doom]?” ([23:13])
  • Conversation with Danny Hillis (cloud computing pioneer): “You need to imagine the tech without the tech companies.” ([24:00])
• Stewart: “Can one do that?”
• Tyrangiel: “One can.” ([24:08])
• Insight: Tyrangiel explains that “AI is not one thing,” describing different AI types: classifiers, optimizers, generative AI ([24:25]).

AI’s Capabilities: Speed and Certainty

• “They process information faster than any human being possibly could and with many fewer doubts.” ([25:20])
• Stewart: Praises book’s examples of AI as tool (MRIs, nonverbal humans, schools) ([25:29])
• “It’s hard to imagine it will remain our assistant.” ([26:04])

Who Controls AI, and Why?

• Stewart: “We focus on...who are in control of it. And we don’t like them.”
• Tyrangiel: “Hard to like. I’m not sure they’re necessarily evil, but they are very alike.” ([26:43])
  • “They all kind of look like they could be in the Legion of Doom … the guy who wants to colonize Mars, the guy who flies into his secret bunker in Hawaii…”
  • “Should humanity continue? And he [Elon Musk] was like, ooh, interesting question. Yeah.” ([27:03])

AI as Public Resource

• Stewart draws an analogy to oil extraction and asks why tech companies get the profits from AI, which is built on public data ([27:35]):
  • “AI is by necessity a strip mining of us … why do they get proprietary knowledge that...is our knowledge they stole from us, that they use to make their… but they’re the ones who get all the money?”
• Tyrangiel: Notes bipartisan interest in nationalizing or taxing AI, referencing interviews with both Bernie Sanders (“We need a robot tax, a shorter work week, and to nationalize it”) and Steve Bannon (“I think we need to get 50% [of profits] and government control over the boards of these companies...”). ([28:24], [29:38])

Corporate Fears and Labor Disruption

• Tyrangiel: “The people who really didn’t want to talk about it were the Fortune 100 CEOs.” ([30:25])
  • Stewart summarizes: CEOs are “incentivized to the breakdown of our social fabric through a great amount of unemployment.” ([31:20])
• Stewart critiques the narrative of inevitability: “Imagine if atom bombs were controlled by five capitalists in Silicon Valley.” ([31:55])

A Window for Public Action

• Tyrangiel: Suggests now is a critical window for the public to demand the kinds of AI they want: “We have this brief period … to demand and insist on certain kinds of AI…” ([32:00])
• Stewart: “Millions get funneled back into politicians’ coffers to prevent that process...Their machine is opaque. ... We have no shareholder voice.” ([32:44])

Regulation and Accountability

• Tyrangiel highlights a recent shift—David Sacks stepping down, the Trump administration considering regulation above certain AI sizes ([33:31]):
  • “Political movement is having an impact … People are actually making their point of view heard.”
• Stewart: “I don’t trust them to regulate it either because of the corrupt nature of their dealings ... We need to establish some form of a way to adjudicate it that is apolitical.” ([34:54])
• Tyrangiel: “Nobody wants to own the disaster...the consequences have suddenly become much more clear.” ([36:01])

Philosophical Implications

• Stewart ponders what it means to create something “better than us”—does it challenge our understanding of faith and our place in creation? ([36:45])
• Tyrangiel: Counters that AI is still a collective human achievement: “That robot probably had 2,000 programmers and manufacturers who worked on it. So 2,000 people in a robot won that half marathon.” ([37:54])
• Memorable moment: Stewart tells of his encounter with Sam Altman about AI’s impending disruption:
  • “I laid it out so beautifully, Josh...And what did he say? ... He goes, ‘We’ll be good.’ And then he walked away. And I was like, huh. Okay. That sucked.” ([39:51])

---

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Media Hysteria:

  • Stewart: “Breaking tonight, the deadly outbreak of a rare rodent virus on board a cruise ship. The race to contain… Nightmare at sea. Cruise Chaos. A cruise from hell. What? Another pandemic?” ([04:50])
  • Stewart: “It’s difficult to transmit. It’s mostly spread by rat infestation…What cruise line offers day trip landfill excursions?” ([05:40])
  • Stewart: “Dr. Rasmussen, do you have any concerns about the process of the passengers returning to their home countries?”
    Dr. Rasmussen: “I don’t actually have any concerns about this process from a scientific perspective because I actually think that the process itself is completely suitable for this virus.” ([12:40])
  • Stewart (mocking news): “The wheels on this bus go round and round … and can you ask, will that be all through the town?” ([13:12])
  • Stewart: “Now the counts are back ... one positive and one runny nose ... what’s something that doesn’t spread? Cold butter?” ([19:00])

• AI and Accountability:

  • Tyrangiel: “AI is not one thing. ... There are many things that are infuriating about AI, but one of them is the term AI.” ([24:20])
  • Stewart: “AI is by necessity a strip mining of us. ... Why do they get proprietary knowledge... that is our knowledge?” ([27:35])
  • Tyrangiel: “There’s more than one baby with this bathwater. There’s a lot of possibility in here.” ([27:17])
  • Stewart: “Imagine if atom bombs were controlled by five capitalists in Silicon Valley.” ([31:55])
  • Stewart (to Altman): “I laid it out so beautifully, Josh...And what did he say? ... He goes, ‘We’ll be good.’ And then he walked away. And I was like, huh. Okay. That sucked.” ([39:51])

---

Important Timestamps

• [03:01]: Golden Trump statue and idolatry satire
• [05:10]: First expert statement on low hantavirus threat
• [06:31]: Stewart lampoons the origin of cruise ship infection (“day trip landfill excursions”)
• [09:00]: Clarity that experts have repeatedly reassured the public
• [11:00-13:30]: Stewart mocks news coverage logistics and “live” reporting
• [16:28]: Hantavirus panic fused with Mother’s Day
• [17:32-19:00]: Repeated expert reassurances, Stewart’s comic skepticism at media’s cycle
• [22:45]: Interview with Josh Tyrangiel begins
• [24:25]: Tyrangiel on the complexity and diversity of AI
• [27:35]: Stewart’s “AI as strip mining” metaphor
• [29:38]: Bannon and Sanders agree (sort of) on taxing or nationalizing AI
• [30:25]: Tyrangiel on corporate fears around labor disruption
• [31:55]: “Atom bombs in Silicon Valley” analogy
• [37:54]: AI/robotics as a collective human project
• [39:51]: Stewart recounts his encounter with Sam Altman

---

Tone & Style

The episode maintains its trademark satirical, irreverent Daily Show style—mixing sharp political critique with absurdist humor, particularly in coverage of how media amplifies health scares and the broader, more nuanced debate about AI’s societal effects.

---

Summary Takeaways

• Hantavirus is not the next Covid: Despite wall-to-wall panic from TV news, actual experts unanimously agree it is not a significant threat; Stewart uses this as a lens to criticize the media’s “panic for ratings” cycle.
• AI’s Future Remains Unwritten: Josh Tyrangiel argues that AI’s fate isn’t sealed—there’s space for positive, public-serving uses, but big tech’s dominance and politicians’ complicity remain hurdles. Stewart and Tyrangiel both advocate for public involvement and apolitical oversight to steer AI responsibly.

---

Transcript

[A]

Study and play come together on a Windows 11 PC. And for a limited time, college students get the best of both worlds.

[B]

Get the unreal college deal everything you

[A]

need to study and play with select Windows 11 PCs. Eligible students get a year of Microsoft 365 Premium and a year of Xbox Game Pass ultimate with a custom color Xbox wireless controller. Learn [e-mail] studentoffer while supplies last ends June 30th terms at aka mscollegepc. This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips? That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] like a good neighbor, State Farm is there. You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, John Doers. Hey, everybody. Hey, everybody. Welcome. Welcome once again to the Daily Show. My name is Joe Stewart. Great show for you tonight and I don't say that every time. Later on, we're going to be joined by journalist Josh Tiringal. Wrote a book about how AI can help solve the world's problems. And from what I understand, he wrote it with AI. But first, I want to check in on the president. You know, his approval rating is currently lower than really ever. I think it's really, it's not, it's not good, really. Thanks to a combination of inflation and he's a dick and the war in Iran, the ongoing energy crisis in his own body. Weekend adanis. But as is always the case with Donald Trump, his MAGA base remains unfazed. Now, this week saw the formal dedication of a 22 foot gold statue of Trump at his Miami golf course by none other than evangelical pastor Mark Burns. Pastor Burns must have known that he might take some criticism for praying over

[B]

a literal golden idol because he wrote

[A]

on social media, quote, let me be

[B]

clear, this is not a golden calf.

[A]

No, it is not. But if I may say, it is a full grown cow. That is a golden cow with a gold load in its. But I don't want to suggest this is actually a case of false idolatry. If it was, God would probably be punishing us the same way he did in the Bible with a plague. And I mean, that's not happening. Breaking tonight, the deadly Outbreak of a rare rodent virus on board a cruise ship. The race to contain a suspected deadly virus outbreak. The public health threat so dangerous. Nightmare at sea. Cruise chaos. A cruise from hell. What? What? Another pandemic? Are we going to have to start washing our hands again or freaking the out in a target? Target. I'm not playing any more games. This shit's over. This shit's all over. This shit's. Good times. Although I have to say, on the plus side, I can't believe I still fit into my old hazmat suit. Hey, quick question here though. Are we all gonna die? It's not like Covid. It's not like measles. It's not a very efficient transmission. The overall risk to the public is low. You don't need to be hyster hysterical about it. I know. We don't have to be hysterical about it. It's a choice. But you know what? It's a relief. I'm glad we don't have to be hysterical about it. Covid was a respiratory virus. Passes easily, often when the person isn't symptomatic. It was a brand new virus we had ever seen before. And we weren't allowed to know where it came from. I mean, we didn't know. We were obviously allowed to know. We just didn't know. Wink. While the hantavirus is a known virus, it's difficult to transmit. It's mostly spread by rat infestation. Which does raise the question, how did a cruise ship end up with hantavirus on it? A husband and wife who were the first to be stricken with the so called rat virus reportedly went bird watching at a rat infested landfill when their

[B]

cruise ship was docked at a remote city in Argentina.

[A]

I have some questions going to walk down the list. A, what cruise line offers day trip landfill excursions? B, what bird watcher wants to go to a landfill and spend the whole day going Seagull. Seagull. Seagull. Used condom. Cerulean warbler. No, that's used condom. Sorry. Seagull vulture. Seagull condom. Vulture eating seagull eating condom. In bird watching lingo, that's known as a vulgoldom. A lot of people serve that on the holidays. The point is, some people may get pretty sick. But forget Covid. This ain't no pandemic hell, this hantavirus. And not even in monkeypox territory. But I guess reality don't sell papers. So, boys, we learned that everything was okay on Tuesday. What are we doing Wednesday through Friday?

[B]

The who has been vocal in saying this is not another pandemic or epidemic situation.

[A]

Can they be so sure? Should people be worried? Is this another pandemic? Could the hantavirus mutate? People have a right to be nervous. You gotta fight for your right to be nervous. Yes, we might have a right to be nervous, but I guess the question the news might want to ask is, do we have a reason? And your assignment, news, should you choose to accept it, is to help the public discern the difference. So may we hear from the experts again? The potential to spread beyond an outbreak is very small, should be pretty limited, should keep it contained, shouldn't really have

[B]

any concern at all. I have no concern about that.

[A]

I guess it's gonna stick this time. I want to make the timeline clear to everybody. Sunday, we found out hantavirus had been on a cruise ship. Monday through Thursday, expert upon expert, scientist upon scientist very transparently explained why this illness, while a serious illness, is a low level public health threat. Their words went a long way to easing the concerns of a curious public. And Lord knows the news can't let that happen. So on Friday, after three days of reinsurance, I give you Nightline. A dream vacation turning into a floating nightmare. Authorities now working to stop the spread and track down passengers who've already left the ship, including to the us the looming question, could this become the next pandemic? God damn it, they got me again. I can't breathe in there. I was panicking. They got me again. And by the way, did you check out the percussion on that? Could this be the next pandemic? The question of whether it was going to be the next pandemic had been asked and answered for three days. But apparently that was before the authorities decided not to fire a torpedo and sink the cruise ship, burying its diseased passengers and cruise entertainers in a watery grave befitting their disease. That's right, folks. These people from this ship were going to be allowed to disembark. The deadly hantavirus is no longer contained to that cruise ship. It is now literally flying around the world. Why'd they let them off the boat? Releasing them off the boat just creates new problems. Why did they get off the boat and then come back to America? How long people on the ship should be isolated before being allowed to leave and then, like, walk among us? Look, I don't think any of us are crazy about the idea of people who take cruises walking amongst us. I just don't think it's. And I respect that. But they're still people they're just people who wanted to travel the world on a floating shopping mall. They can throw their fiance off, look it up. Trust me, it's got a higher body count than the hantavirus. Trust me. Look, I could be convinced to be on Team Sink em all. But again, let's listen to the experts that the news people themselves have vetted to answer these questions responsibly. Dr. Rasmussen, do you have any concerns about the process of the passengers returning to their home countries? So I don't actually have any concerns about this process from a scientific perspective because I actually think that the process itself is completely suitable for this virus. Oh, suitable for the virus, but not suitable apparently for this news cycle. The news experts say stay calm, but the news media says no, I believe we prefer panic. Right now we're in the port where the ship won't even be allowed to dock. You can have a look at what this looks like.

[B]

That is the MV Hondius.

[A]

Those are the Americans finally on board that evacuation boat. You can see there's a small group of them being ferried back and forth, helping ferry passengers off the ship and onto some smaller boats to land on these little boats that bring them here through a tent. Within minutes they are on a bus headed straight for the airport. You're looking at a portion of a bus that looks similar to the ones that people have gotten onto. You're literally showing us a bus they're not on. You're just cutting to showing us what a bus looks like. Yes, Jim. The passengers are getting on and I'm being told that the wheels on this bus go round and round and we're about to get on a bus where the wheels go round and round, Jim. I see. And can you ask, will that be all through the town? I believe it will, Jim. I believe they will be going all through the town on the bus. They were treating it like the O.J. chase. It was. That's the logistics of how you get from a boat to the shore. But don't worry, the news media's high level technology gets us access we never could have gotten before. These images just coming in, those Americans getting on buses and waving before boarding their flights. Drone video from Spanish authorities capturing the first passengers leaving. Drone video spectacular. Such good use of drones. Ukraine uses theirs to defeat Russia. But good on you. I still have not learned enough. I mean, I know they've gone from a boat to a smaller boat to a tent to a bus, but at this point I've somewhat lost the trail. Where will it End. Where will these who are supposedly to walk amongst us end up? Perhaps in a room. If so, what does the room look like? Is it furnished? If it has a bike, will that bike be stationary? Each person will have their own room, equipped with special ventilation systems, private bathrooms, exercise equipment, and wifi. Private bathrooms, exercise equipment, WI fi. Oh, maybe we should all get the hantavirus. It's actually not that luxurious. Only one of them will be given the password, Which I believe is lowercase hantavirus. But the I is a one and the S is a dollar bill.

[B]

Yo.

[A]

Look. We are now eight days into this non pandemic and it's beginning to affect our Mother's Day coverage segues. It's a very happy Mother's Day to all you moms out there. This morning. That cruise ship hit by a deadly hantavirus. The state of our union is calling our mom. This morning, 17Americans are beginning a trip

[B]

back to the U.S. happy Mother's Day to all the moms watching. Let's kick this off.

[A]

Pandemic panic. Happy Mother's Day. Happy Mother's Day. Tell your mom you love her, but also keep your eyes on her because you don't know if she's got it or not. And I gotta tell you this, if she turns, you know what you have to do. No tears, boy. No tears. She's not your mother anymore. She's more haunter than woman. No matter how many times the question can be asked and answered, it doesn't matter for some people. And sometimes it's the same person. Does this have the markings of the next pandemic or no?

[B]

No.

[A]

Should we still not be sounding the alarm? I don't think we have to be very anxious about it. Should we be worried that we have an American here who's tested positive? No. It's low risk to Americans. Should we still not be worried by this here in America? Correct. I don't think that this poses any risk to the general public. Jesus, lady. How badly do you just want to work from. Just work from home. We're not all going to die. That's a good thing. Just. Just zoom in. Jesus. Although it is important to note this virus can cause chronic fatigue syndrome, mostly amongst the experts who have to repeatedly answer the same questions. What is your message to Americans who are still scared?

[B]

We have been repeating the same answer many. This is not another Covid. And the risk to the public is low, so they shouldn't be scared and they shouldn't panic,

[A]

you idiot. Well, that certainly should put an end to it. Unless.

[B]

So they shouldn't be scared and they shouldn't panic.

[A]

And there is concern out there that more positive cases could pop up. So when they say you shouldn't be scared, you hear be scared. It's like they're all trying to recapture that pandemic ratings magic. Remember the old big screen body counts? All the ways they scared us? Well, the counts are back. Obviously not as compelling. There's one person who tested positive. A separate person showed symptoms, but we don't have a positive test result for that person. One. One. One positive and one runny nose. What? Damn, this thing is spreading like. I don't know. What's something that doesn't spread? Cold butter, the legs of a prude. I could do this all day. So it's fine. It's not a thing. Go about your lives. Go on a cruise if you want. Meanwhile, a norovirus outbreak on board a different cruise ship.

[B]

102 passengers, 13 crew members, a six

[A]

on the Caribbean Princess. No. When we come back, Josh Taal. Don't go away. Amazon presents Jeff vs. Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's verde roja or the orange one, for Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habanero. More like habanero. Yes. Save the Everyday with Amazon. Chronic migraine is 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more. Botox Onobotulinum toxin A prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine before they start. Start. It's not for those with 14 or fewer headache days a month. It Prevents on average 8 to 9 headache days a month versus 6 to 7 for placebo. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headaches. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including als, Lou Gehrig's disease, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects. Why wait? Ask your doctor. Visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844. Botox. To learn more, Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight, he is a staff writer at the Atlantic, author of a new book, AI for How Real People Are Using Artificial Intelligence to Fix Things that Matter. Please welcome to the program Josh Terengahl. Nice to see you. Thank you. How are ya? I'm good, thanks. This is flickering. Listen, you have taken on a task. AI for good. AI is reputationally right now in the country, maybe in the world, people are very concerned. I saw it booed at a graduation speech. The valedictorian said something about AI being the new industrial revolution, and the kids literally just wanted to go up on stage and drag her out. Why take up the mantle of it? To show. To take down the temperature.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, I didn't do that intentionally. I was reporting on AI, and a couple months into reporting, this is early 2024, I was like, what the hell is this good for? Because I was talking to people who were telling me two things. One, it's going to cure cancer and mitigate climate change. Okay. It's going to end human existence. Right. And I was like, are those. Are those the only two options? Is there anything in between? And so I was actually talking to a guy named Danny Hillis who invented cloud computing. And Danny's now in his 70s, and he's kind of like the Buddha of Silicon Valley. He's just this lovely guy. And I'm complaining to him. I'm like, danny, this is bullshit. What is this good for? And Danny just laughs and he's like, you need to imagine the tech without the tech companies. And I was like,

[A]

I'm a little

[B]

embarrassed that I didn't realize one can do that.

[A]

Can one do that?

[B]

One can.

[A]

You can separate AI and the technology from Palantir and Altman and Musk.

[B]

You can. And so one thing that's really important to know is, like, AI is not one thing. So there are many things that are infuriating about AI.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

But one of them is the term AI.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

So AI is actually a series of overlapping but different capabilities and techniques. So there's AI that can predict behavior from patterns it sees in data.

[A]

Right. Those are the large language models, or that's something different.

[B]

There's a part of it that's large language, but not entirely. Right. There's classifiers. And what classifiers can do is like tag an image, sort your email, flag a tumor on an mri.

[A]

Okay, let's use that one.

[B]

Yeah, exactly.

[A]

Right.

[B]

Then there's optimizers, and they work in logistics and they can change the direction of something or change pricing really quickly. And then there's Gen AI, generative AI, which is really what has sparked this whole thing in the last few years. And that's AI that generates words and images and can create code. And so what they all have in common is speed. They process information faster than any human being possibly could and with many fewer doubts. And so that's sort of the key, the lack of doubt, both the speed and the lack of doubt.

[A]

So what you do in the book, and I think you do it really well, is you show AI as a tool, whether it be in schools. There's a great chapter in there about some teachers in Indiana who are starting to use it with heart MRIs, which are apparently very difficult to get, but are diagnostically superior non verbal humans that communicate and ways to help crack that code to bring those people in. But it's hard to imagine it will remain our assistant.

[B]

Yeah. And I think what you're getting at is that we have all been focused on Gen AI and the people who are bringing it to us.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we're human beings, so we focus on human beings, which I think is very wise because the tech is complicated. And so what is the first thing we do? We assess the people who are bringing it to us.

[A]

Right. Who are in control of it.

[B]

Who are in control of it. And we don't like them.

[A]

Thank you. Yeah. I didn't want to say anything. No, no, no, it's fine. It's fine. By the way, hard to like. Hard to like.

[B]

Okay, so hard to like. I'm gonna take a mildly unpopular stance and say, I'm not sure they're necessarily evil, but they are very alike. They're very similar.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And so they're all kind of like racing each other, obsessed with each other, intent on dominating. It doesn't help that they all kind of look like they could be in the Legion of Doom.

[A]

Yes. Right.

[B]

Like you got the guy who wants to colonize Mars, the guy who flies into his secret bunker in Hawaii. None of that's great.

[A]

You got a guy who literally had to pause when asked if. If humanity should continue. Right. Should humanity continue? And he was like, ooh, interesting question. Yeah.

[B]

So like, not great.

[A]

No.

[B]

Okay. But at the same time, there's more than one baby with this bathwater. There's a lot of possibility in here.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And we want to be really careful in our response to that, which I think is actually a response to capitalism and a skepticism of capitalism with what this stuff can actually do.

[A]

But it's also. We have been hurt before. But let me take you then, that we keep saying. Well, it is really these five guys in these five companies, it's. It's Google, OpenAI, AIX and Anthropic and Meta. Meta. Okay, why did they get it? Why is it. Why did all the profits of it. AI is by necessity a strip mining of us. It is, in fact extractive in the way that oil companies. Oil might be a resource and you extract it from the ground. And they did it. And, okay, that's theirs. But in Alaska, they get a dividend. Why does Palantir and OpenAI, and why do they get proprietary knowledge that. That is our knowledge that they stole from us, that they use to make their. But they're the ones who get all the money. That makes no sense to me.

[B]

Yeah, listen, I agree. And I actually think that, politically speaking, there's movement on the far left and on the far right for the federal government to essentially nationalize these products and basically say, look, you're going to have tremendous amounts of control. We're going to have all sorts of labor issues. I did a story for the Atlantic about AI and the future of employment.

[A]

Right? Yes.

[B]

Nobody in the middle knows what I'm talking about. They're not interested in AI. Well, it's kind of on its way, Right. The two people who said. Who agreed, right. On the left, Bernie Sanders said, we need to tax it. We need a robot tax, we need a shorter work week, and we're gonna need to nationalize it. Right. And so then I went to Steve Bannon's townhouse. I sat with Steve Bannon.

[A]

What'd that smell like? You know, we didn't get.

[B]

We didn't get that close. This was not my first reporting trip, so I wasn't like, do we start by smelling each other?

[A]

I just thought it would be evident. Yeah, no, no, no.

[B]

So we're talking and he says, I agree with Bernie Sanders.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And he said, but he doesn't go far enough. I think we should get 50%. And I think we need to have government control over the boards of these companies. And he said, I know that's not gonna be popular with the right, but that's what I believe.

[A]

Right. And he doesn't believe it either, is my guess. And he certainly doesn't believe it. If a Democrat is in office. I think they, you know, it's very convenient for them to do the faux populism when it's really about. About control. But I wouldn't even think it's that radical. It's the sense of this is a resource. Look, the guys from AI are the ones who agree with you that this is going to be incredibly disruptive for labor. This isn't something that populists have made up. No. Dario from Anthropic has said, yeah, this is going to be a bear.

[B]

Yes. And what I found in my reporting on that story is that the people who really didn't want to talk about it were the Fortune 100 CEOs.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. Now, why do you say that? What do you think that's about?

[B]

I think it's two responses.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

The first is they're actually really scared, really.

[A]

That it's going to come for them.

[B]

They're scared that they look at their investments in AI and they know what Wall street wants. Wall street wants growth. And if they can't show growth through using AI in their products, they can grow by shrinking their workforce. And so they are desperately afraid that that's something that they're going to do and that it's going to be really, really unpopular. And what I would say is, like, I was impressed. They're aware that they're not acting alone and that if all of them do this at the same time, the consequences for the country are going to be enormous. However, if they don't do it, they're going to be the ones out of a job because the street expects certain things from these public companies.

[A]

So they're incentivized to the breakdown of our social fabric.

[B]

Correct.

[A]

Through a great amount of unemployment. But the thing that I, what I respond to is there's a sense of inevitability around all this, as though we've created a tool that's unbelievably powerful, but we have no control over how it's deployed or how it's used. Imagine if atom bombs were controlled by five capitalists in Silicon Valley. And we were all like, they're probably gonna start a war at some point, but what are you gonna do? Capitalism. Right.

[B]

And so that's why I actually think it's really important to show people what the positive uses of AI are. Because we're going to have this moment and it's not going to last very long when we, we can demand and insist on certain kinds of AI in our lives. If we try to take on all of capitalism. I got bad news for you. Like, it's had a 400 year head start, right? And that boulder is rolling down the hill. And sometimes we've directed it and sometimes we haven't. But like, I wouldn't take that on. I think right now we have this brief period where if we can understand what we want from it, how it works, how to use it in ways that it works with human beings and doesn't replace human beings, how it amplifies meaningful problems, doesn't create slop, we got a shot. And I would rather focus on the ways in which we have a shot than as you say, like hunker down, curl up in a ball and just

[A]

be like, ah, right, it's over. But they're doing their best to prevent that process, prevent us from happening. And as trillions get funneled into their coffers, millions get funneled back into politicians coffers to prevent that very thing from happening. They've created a machine that prevents us and is opaque. And again I go back to. But what is the fundamental driver of their product? Us for sure. And so I don't understand how we're not. We have no shareholder voice. Right.

[B]

And I think to me that's why this moment matters.

[A]

Right?

[B]

We actually, and I hate to say this, no, we're gonna have to use the political system to change.

[A]

Stop it.

[B]

Stop your.

[A]

Wash your mouth out with soap, young man.

[B]

One source of optimism. So up until like a week ago, I would have told you, well, that's just terrible. Right? So everybody's. The booing at graduations, the fact that we're talking about this in such negative terms. So for the first 14 months of the Trump Chew, David, a guy named David Sacks was in charge of AI. He also was the crypto czar. I know he also was an investor in all the AI companies. So he's basically like the, you know, the Cy Sperling of AI, Right? He's the president, he's the investor. He stepped down about a month ago. And last week, you know, we reported, other people reported the Trump administration is thinking of suddenly regulating AI models above a certain. And I think they're doing that because they know if there is an AI related disaster, you know, there's photos of all these guys cozying up to Donald

[A]

Trump at the inauguration. They finally realize that at the inauguration,

[B]

at dinners, and they're like, well, that's not great for us. Yes. And so the political movement is having an impact and at the same time as that's working, people are actually making their point of view heard. We do need to demand that the people we elect to Congress have used AI, know the basic functionality of technology.

[A]

I'm sure they have.

[B]

Oh, they all have.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I Mean, they're all training their own

[A]

models, what color tie makes voters most comfortable.

[B]

So we do have that available to us. And I actually, for the first time, I'm like, oh, that lever is working a little bit.

[A]

The problem is, again, I don't trust them to regulate it either because of the corrupt nature of their dealings. I mean, when your two kids sudden have a multi million dollar drone contract with the Pentagon and like they ran golf courses and you're like, I don't think that makes any sense. Like, the corruption endemic to this administration doesn't give you. We need to establish some form of a way to adjudicate it that is apolitical.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And more akin to a commission of trusted advisors.

[B]

Yeah. And I think what's happening with the five guys, as we call them, in charge, is that I don't think anybody wants to own the disaster. Right. And I think the more unpopular this gets, right, there is more of an incentive for everybody to sit down and say, how do we want to handle this? And by the way, I would include the Chinese in this. Right from the beginning we've been told like, no, no, no, we have to beat the Chinese. That's why we can't regulate it.

[A]

Oh, that's so interesting. Do you think there's a self preservation that has suddenly occurred to them that we're at the forefront? Because I was of the impression that they felt immune to the vagaries of accountability in our government and also in those Silicon Valley boardrooms.

[B]

And I would not speak for them. I would only say the pressure has increased a lot. The consequences have suddenly become much more clear of what failure looks like. So I think there's a window here. Do I trust the Trump administration to push them through the window? No, no.

[A]

Somehow the metaphor has me confused. Okay, the window is good. Push him through the window. But then I can't help but think about, of like, isn't that how Putin gets rid of everybody? Let me ask you though, because this is, and this is a purely philosophical question, because I understand the challenges that are ahead for us, but I think as human beings on this earth, the idea that we've designed something that's better than us throws into disarray our entire understanding of almost of even faith. Because what do we, what have we said about God? What do we say about the human eye? Well, the human eye couldn't have been created unless it was created by something greater than us. But we've just created something greater than us and we're less. So does that mean, does that Change, almost. Do they reckon with that?

[B]

I don't think they do, but.

[A]

But want to get high and reckon with that. But do you know. Do you know what I mean? Ye. How is it that a lesser being creates a better being?

[B]

But I guess I look at it differently. Okay, so remember a couple weeks ago, the robot that beat that won the half marathon in China? And everybody's saying, oh, the robot beat the humans. It's like that robot probably had 2,000 programmers and manufacturers who worked on it. So 2,000 people in a robot won that half marathon. In my mind,

[A]

you just blew. Oh, hold on. It's a great point. I keep thinking of it as every iteration of it blows my mind more than the next. And it's moving so quickly. I'll tell you a quick story before we go. I was at one of those, like, Illuminati get togethers, like, in the mountains of Colorado. Like, one of those things that you're like, that doesn't happen, but it happened. It's always like a conference, you know, and they have like. It's like Bill Gates and Musk, and they're all in the room, and there's a good amount of security, and the food is fantastic. And so I thought, well, I'll get a chance. I go up to Sam Altman, and these guys are always like, you couldn't find a baggier? Like, I was dressed nicer. And that never happens. You're literally, like, really corduroy. Come on, dude. And I said, the industrial revolution displaced. The globalization displaced. But all those took place over decades. And America still. And the world still didn't adjust to it in the same way. AI may have that same level of displacement over three years.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we can't in any way be prepared for that kind of disruption in that kind of time frame. And I laid it out so beautifully, Josh. I was sure that I was the one that he was going to be like, let's get some coffee and talk.

[B]

And what did he say?

[A]

He goes, we'll be good. And then he walked away. And I was like, huh. Okay. That sucked.

[B]

Yeah. Sorry.

[A]

But thank you for wrestling with these questions. Man. This is gonna be. This is gonna be the book. Start to read how we can use this as a tool. Cause you're gonna need it. AI for good. Available now, Josh Tarandell. We're gonna take a quick break. We'll be right back after that. Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel maybe, or white chocolate mocha. Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries. Now at McDonald's, a McDouble is 250, so you can get your gym gains on or just get lunch for only 2.50. Get more value on the under $3 menu. Limited time only. Prices and participation may vary. Prices may be higher for delivery. That was our show for tonight. Before we go, we're going to check in with your host for the rest of the week, Mr. Jordan Klepper. Jordan, What do you got for us next week? Well, John, air travel is a mess.

[B]

Yes, gas prices are surging. But don't worry, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy

[A]

has a plan and you'll never guess what it is. How about he's going to fix the problems? Even better, he's launching a reality show, road tripping with his family across America. That's a very real thing he's doing, and I can't wait for it. This is the show that America needs. Yeah, I think America needs really transportation to be fixed. Come on, John. Don't you want to see if Sean will be voted out of the minivan? Will one of his kids turn out to be cake? Will one lucky ice officer join him

[B]

in the fantasy suite?

[A]

I mean, tell me that's not something you want to watch on your seat back while your plane runs out of fuel. Wait, why is my plane running out of fuel?

[B]

We'll find out in season two.

[A]

Joining Clapper, everybody. Here it is. Your moment is end. I want you as the medical professional to lay this out for people. How concerned should the general public be? Yeah, the risk to the general public remains really low. Think of it this way. Covid was a wildfire. It spread through the air. People who did not have symptoms could

[B]

still infect other people.

[A]

And the entire world was fuel for the COVID virus. Hantavirus is like a wet log in a stone fireplace. Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, This has been a Comedy Central podcast. There's a new way to sweetgreen meat wraps handheld, hearty and made for life on the move. With bold, chef crafted flavors, fresh Ingredients and over 40 grams of protein, they're built to satisfy without slowing you down. Try wraps today in the app [e-mail] available at all participating locations. The right window treatments change everything. Your sleep, your privacy, the way every room looks and feels. @blinds.com, we've spent 30 years making it surprisingly simple to get exactly what your home needs. We've covered over 25 million windows and have 50,000 five star reviews to prove we deliver. Whether you DIY it or want a pro to handle everything from measure to any install, we have you covered. Real Design professionals free samples, zero pressure right now. Get up to 45% off with minimum purchase plus get a free professional [e-mail] rules and restrictions apply. Want to keep up with everything trendy? From breaking news to shareable jokes, pop

[B]

culture bites to viral food spots, it's all on TikTok.

[A]

Download TikTok now to explore.