Jimmy Kimmel's Suspension Was Always About Censorship (Just Ask Trump) | Jacinda Ardern

Summary

Podcast Summary: "Jimmy Kimmel's Suspension Was Always About Censorship (Just Ask Trump) | Jacinda Ardern"

The Daily Show: Ears Edition – September 23, 2025
Host: Jon Stewart (with Shaun Stewart), Guest: Jacinda Ardern

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Episode Overview

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, hosted by Jon Stewart (aided by Shaun Stewart), is a fast-paced satirical dissection of political news, media censorship, and authoritarian tendencies in American politics. The first half lampoons Jimmy Kimmel’s suspension, networks’ relations with the Trump administration, and the abuse of power for political gain, while skewering defenders’ rationalizations. The second half features an in-depth conversation with former New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, focusing on empathetic leadership during crises such as the Christchurch terror attack and the COVID-19 pandemic, the spread of online extremism, and lessons on political responsibility.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Jimmy Kimmel’s Suspension & Media Censorship

• Disney’s Media Ties & Kimmel’s Return: Stewart jokes about the whiplash-inducing return of Jimmy Kimmel to TV after rumors that Disney’s multi-tentacled empire made a Kimmel-boycott impossible for consumers.
  • "Wasn't it interesting to try and figure out all the tentacles Disney has in your daily life? ... What’s up mother? You got a headache? Where you gonna turn? No, Kimmel’s coming back." (04:40)
• Trump Administration's FCC Threats: The episode frames Kimmel's suspension as political censorship, driven by overt threats from Trump appointees to pull the show unless it silenced criticism.
  • "It was rather shocking that this turnaround occurred because I was told that the original decision to get rid of Jimmy had nothing to do with the Trump administration and their explicit FCC threat that they could remove the show. The easy way or the hard way." (05:08)

2. Trump, Free Speech, and Weaponization of Power

• Trump’s Claims of Free Speech Support: Stewart lampoons Trump’s habitual “pro-free speech” disclaimers that precede authoritarian exceptions.
  • Jon Stewart: "I’m a very strong person for free speech..." (06:32)
• Manipulation of Power & Department of Justice: The show dissects Trump’s overt demands for the prosecution of political enemies, mocking the logic used to justify these actions.
  • "President Trump is publicly putting pressure on the Department of Justice and Attorney General Pam Bondi... 'Letitia? They’re all guilty as hell. Justice must be served.'" (09:38)
  • "He fired him for not finding evidence. Trump is going full Devil’s Wears Prada..." (12:17)
• Defenders’ Rationalizations: The hosts critique and ridicule how Trump advocates and GOP senators try to spin blatant power grabs as 'transparency' or 'refreshing openness.'
  • "President Trump is very open and transparent with the American people, and he speaks his mind, and that’s what his supporters love about him. No, that's what America loves about Dolly Parton. Yet Dolly rarely jails her political enemies." (13:17)
  • Notable back-and-forth on how even Ted Cruz (long-time Trump ally) feels compelled to draw the line at direct threats to networks’ licenses (14:12–18:50).

3. Satirical Interludes: Pop Culture as Metaphor

• Mocking Pop Rationalizations:
  • The hosts reference pop culture (The Simpsons, Goodfellas, Star Wars, Princess Bride), interweaving quotes and impersonations for comedic effect while underscoring the absurdity of contemporary political logic.
  • "A lesser man might tell you to go home and get your shine box, but I don’t. Because you wouldn’t even know what that means, Ted Cruz." (18:35)

4. Jacinda Ardern Interview: Leadership in Crisis

Leadership, Humanity, and Vulnerability

• Ardern discusses filming a documentary during her tumultuous term, led by her broadcaster husband, emphasizing honesty over political curation.
  • "It’s raw ... you’re like, why would she have allowed that clip at that angle?" - Jon Stewart (24:05)
  • "I’m so glad he persisted ... there’s a story I hope is told which isn’t just about ... what’s it like to lead through a domestic terror attack and a pandemic and have a baby... but that we need more leaders willing to be humans while in the job." - Jacinda Ardern (24:49)

Governing Amid Constant Crisis

• The conversation reflects on how sustained crises (terror attacks, COVID) force leaders to spend political capital on hard, often unpopular, but necessary decisions.
  • "Whatever political capital that you might have, you’re gonna need to spend it...The best we can hope for is that politicians spend it on doing the right thing." - Jacinda Ardern (28:03)

Social Media, Radicalization, and Christchurch

• Ardern recounts the horror of the Christchurch attack, the global and rapid spread of the live-streamed violence, and the resistance encountered trying to limit online extremism.
  • "That video was uploaded 1.5 million times onto Facebook, once every second for the first 24 hours...It was everywhere." - Jacinda Ardern (32:13)
• Highlights the need for government, platforms, and individuals to take more responsibility to combat radicalization.

Empathetic Leadership & Global Trends

• The conversation turns to the global crisis in trust in political institutions, rising grievance, and why leadership style matters.
  • "There’s a global survey ... and what I’ve seen across countries is an increase in the grievance people feel...61% of people feel that way...As a consequence, 4 out of 10 think hostile action is justified because of it." - Jacinda Ardern (35:00)
  • Stewart and Ardern debate whether pursuit of power is now ends in itself, or if responsibility can remain a core value.
  • "What is power? In my mind, it’s responsibility." - Jacinda Ardern (37:03)

What Makes Effective Leadership?

• Ardern credits empathy and courage as essential now more than ever:
  • "It takes courage to be empathetic in these times. It is a courageous act to be optimistic in these times, but we need more of it, not less." - Jacinda Ardern (39:47)
• She highlights leaders who emphasize kindness (Canada’s Mark Carney, Australia’s Anthony Albanese) and supports a new program, Field Fellowship, to foster compassionate politicians.

Final Notes & Humor

• Stewart jokes about Ardern's true calling as a chocolate ambassador.
  • "I’m very happy as just solely an ambassador for New Zealand’s chocolate." - Jacinda Ardern (41:29)

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Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• Jon Stewart (on Trump and free speech, 06:32):
  "I’m a very strong person for free speech ... almost inevitably a statement like that will be followed up by a but..."

• Jon Stewart (on abuse of DOJ, 12:07):
  "He fired him for not finding evidence. Trump is going full Devil’s Wears Prada on this one."

• Shaun Stewart (on defenders' rationalizations, 13:17):
  "No, that's what America loves about Dolly Parton... Yet Dolly rarely jails her political enemies."

• Jacinda Ardern (on humanity in leadership, 24:49):
  "There’s a story I hope that’s told which isn’t just about ... what’s it like to lead through a domestic terror attack and a pandemic and have a baby ... [but that] we need more leaders who are willing to be humans while they’re in the job."

• Jacinda Ardern (on viral violence, 32:13):
  "That video was uploaded 1.5 million times onto Facebook, once every second for the first 24 hours. It was everywhere."

• Jacinda Ardern (on grievance and leadership, 35:00):
  "There’s a global survey ... 61% of people feel [politics is making life harder]. As a consequence, 4 out of 10 think hostile action is justified because of it."

• Jacinda Ardern (on power and leadership, 37:03):
  "What is power? In my mind, it’s responsibility."

• Jacinda Ardern (on courage and empathy, 39:47):
  "It is a courageous act to be optimistic in these times, but we need more of it, not less."

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Jimmy Kimmel Suspension / Media Censorship: 04:00–06:00
• Trump Administration FCC and DOJ Discussion: 06:12–13:07
• Satirical Pop Culture Interludes: 13:07–18:50
• Jacinda Ardern Interview Begins: 22:47
  • Documentary and vulnerability: 23:18–25:26
  • Leadership in crisis (Christchurch, COVID): 26:08–29:05
  • Trump/US relations, lessons from crisis: 29:11–33:10
  • Online radicalization and social media: 31:25–33:10
  • Political malaise, empathy as antidote: 34:36–41:36

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Tone

The episode maintains The Daily Show’s signature blend of incisive political satire and sharp, self-deprecating humor. The dialogue with Jacinda Ardern contrasts this with warmth, candor, and thoughtful reflection on leadership, marked by Stewart’s curiosity and Ardern’s humility.

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Transcript

[Jon Stewart]

Buying a car in Carvana was so easy, I was able to finance it through them.

[Shaun Stewart]

I just. Whoa, wait, you mean finance?

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, finance. Got pre qualified for a Carvana auto loan, entered my terms and shot from.

[Shaun Stewart]

Thousands of great car options, all within my budget.

[Jon Stewart]

That's cool. But financing through Carvana was so easy. Financed, done. And I get to pick up my car from their Carvana vending machine tomorrow.

[Shaun Stewart]

Financed, right? That's what they said.

[Jon Stewart]

You can spend time trying to pronounce financing, or you can actually finance and buy your car. Today on Carvana financing, subject to credit approval. Additional terms and conditions may apply.

[Shaun Stewart]

Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers. A network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills, and. Did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads. Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get started at LinkedIn.com campaign terms and conditions apply. You're listening to Comedy Central from the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Shaun Stewart. Welcome. Boom. Welcome to the Dallas Show. My name is Jon Stewart. We've got a fabulous show for you tonight. Thank you so much for joining us. I will be joined later by the former prime minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Arden. Will begin a little later. Find out why she forced their ABC affiliate to pull Flight of the Conchords. She did that? Folks, news is flying fast and furious. As you know, the administration teased a big announcement on the cause of autism today. Oh, ye of little faith. So let's get right. This is obviously a very serious moment for the world and the United States of America. To the White House, what is the cause of autism? The use of acetam. Well, let's see how we say that. Acetaminophen. Acetaminophen. Is that okay? No. No, it is not okay. We would like a second opinion and a third pronunciation. Look, there's already a ton of controversy around the lack of data tying acetaminophen in pregnancy to autism. And you can't even be bothered to pronounce the word correctly until maybe you get to the one word you recognize from your medicine cabinet, which is basically commonly known as Tylenol. Well, I'm sure now they're known as plaintiff. A thing. That's when you know, when he looks up, that's his tell that he recognizes the word Sita Tylenol. Meanwhile, in other ABC News, young Jimmy Kimmel's coming back to television. I'll tell you, Jimmy Kimmel's flying high like Advil today. See the minute fans boom. Advil's like, what's up mother? You got a headache? Where you gonna turn? No, Kimmel's coming back. That campaign and I, you know what, I'm joking around. I want to say this seriously. That campaign that you all launched pretending that you were going to cancel Hulu while secretly racing through four seasons of only murders in the building, that really worked. Congratulations. Wasn't it interesting to try and figure out all the tentacles Disney has in your daily life? It's one thing to square off cruises, but the Avengers. Nah. How is it possible that by getting rid of one company, I can't watch Winnie the Pooh or Monday Night Football or listen to early Hilary Duff So yesterday. So I would sing more of it. Obviously Disney is very litigious. It was rather shocking that this turnaround occurred because I was told that the original decision to get rid of Jimmy had nothing to do with the Trump administration and their explicit FCC threat that they could remove the show. The easy way or the hard way. My gosh, this has nothing to do with Donald Trump not agreeing with anything Jimmy Kimmel said or not. I mean, gee willikers, all my days. I mean, I don't know why people would think that we just randomly remove one show a week.

[Jon Stewart]

If Donald Trump wanted to take everyone off the air who had criticisms for him, there would basically only be a.

[Shaun Stewart]

Handful of individuals left on television. That is funny, but it's also maybe a cause for self reflection. Hey, if everyone on TV is criticizing me except for like four people and one of them is my daughter in law, am I the drama? Don't take my word for it. Ask Trump. I'm a very strong person for free speech. Almost inevitably a statement like that will be followed up by a but. However, although. That being said, but if you really. It's like one of those phrases like I don't see color, but. So Trump's saying he's strong for free speech. Well, let's see that big butt of yours. At the same time, when you have networks that where I won an election, like in counties, I guess it's 2,600 to 525. That's called landslide. A landslide times two. Yeah, I don't know if you're aware of this, we don't quantify elections by county. We never have. We don't judge the election by how many counties one person wins and one person loses. Presidents don't ever say, well, I lost the popular vote in the Electoral College, but I won the land mass. That's not how these go. So Trump is up 2,600 counties to 525. And I guess if you were to divide that by the negativity directed at him. But 97, 94, 95, 96% of the people are against me in the sense of the newscasts are against me. The stories are 90. They said 97% bad, so they gave me 97. They'll take a great story and they'll make it bad. You see what we have here, people, 2600 counties minus 525 counties divided by negative 97. I think you see what this all adds up to. See, I think that's really illegal, personally. Boom. Let me explain something. Free speech has always been a ratio. If the county vote were more equal, you could take a good story and make it bad without being jailed. But as our founders stated in the Constitution, when the delta between the sigma of counties divided by factorials of negativity are greater than PI, your inalienable rights turn into more of an expired groupon. I'm sorry, that's just how it goes. I didn't make the rules. Blame the founders. Now, free speech. Free speech isn't the only tentpost of a free society facing redefinition. There's also this. We're bringing back law and order to our country. Oh, we're not talking about the show. Oh, okay. Cause I'm not sure that's ever left us. He's talking about law and order as a foundational principle of civilized society. So how does Donald Trump propose bringing law and order back? President Trump is publicly putting pressure on the Department of Justice and Attorney General Pam Bondi. In a post on Truth Social, the president said, what about Comey, Adam, Shifty, Schiff, Letitia? They're all guilty as hell. But nothing is going to be done, adding, justice must be served. You post that publicly, sir? Far be it from me to tell you how to run your post. Judicial law. Fair. But do we all have to be copied on this shit? We know, we know. You and Bondi talk in private. Epstein. Oh, I'm sorry. I have Epstein's file cold. I have a cold. Now, most people would think a president ordering his independent Department of Justice to go after his Political opponents is weaponizing the Department of Justice. That's why most people don't work in this administration.

[Jon Stewart]

It is not weaponizing the Department of Justice to demand accountability for those who weaponized the Department of Justice.

[Shaun Stewart]

Yes, this is lawfare, but this lawfare is only fair because of how he fared under. I've run out of road for the metaphor, but I think you understand. But look, man, if Letitia James committed a crime, she should be held accountable. But what if she hadn't committed a crime?

[Jon Stewart]

Trump forced out top federal prosecutor Eric Siebert after his office failed to find incriminating evidence against New York Attorney General Letitia James.

[Shaun Stewart]

He fired him for not finding evidence. Trump is going full Devil's Wears Prada on this one. I want an indictment for Letitia James on my desk or you're fired. But, Mr. Trump, it's 3 in the morning and she didn't do anything. You woke pussy her. There's a thousand girls who would take your place in a second. And that sweater is pedestrian. That's my. I've never seen the movie, so I don't. If you've seen the movie, you probably go, I don't think that's the movie. By the way, this Siebert fella was appointed by Trump earlier this year. Look, at this point, it's so blatantly an abuse of power, and yet his defenders continue to reframe this as refreshing.

[Jon Stewart]

He's asking his attorney general in a public way, to go after his political enemies.

[Shaun Stewart]

Very open about it.

[Jon Stewart]

You're okay with that?

[Shaun Stewart]

Well, I think what we know is President Trump is very open and transparent with the American people, and he speaks his mind, and that's what his supporters love about him. And that's what America loves about him. No, that's what America loves about Dolly Parton. Transparent. Speaks your mind. Yet Dolly rarely jails her political enemies. I mean, Senator Mark Wayne or Mark Hyphen Wayne Mullen. Do you want to know how embarrassing your weak need rationalizations for jailing political opponents ring? I'm going to play you a clip of a fellow senator, a fellow Republican senator, by the way, Matt's majority opinion, not just here. Now, Cruz has supported this president through insults to his own wife's looks and to his own father's loyalties. And yet Cruz still manages to maintain a modicum of self respect when it comes to this president trampling all over our Constitution. Sir, it brings me no pleasure to have to play this. Look, I like Brendan Carr. He's a good guy. He's the chairman of the fcc. I work closely with him, but what he said there is dangerous as hell. Fantastic. Fantastic. Senator Ted Cruz boldly stating that the FCC chairman threatening the licenses of networks is dangerous. And Senator Cruz, I would just say maybe you should stop there. I would stop there. I would not continue with the thought. Perfect. No notes. All right, go on. And I gotta say, he threatens it. He says, we can do this the easy way or we can do this the hard way. The sort of a Brett the hard way. What kind of mobster have you ever heard? We could do this the hard way, dad. We could do it the easy way. The hard way. Easy or hard? That's not the Godfather. That's Lenny from Mice and Men. The bunny can do it, Daisy. The hard way. You got more, Senator, don't you? And I gotta say, that's right out of Goodfellas. That's right out of a Mafioso coming into a bar going, nice bar you have here. It'd be a shame if something happened to him. That's not a Goodfellas quote. I know this because all of my decorative pillows have Goodfellas quotes on them. I mean, I would go home, I would say, that's me at home. Look at me. Now, Senator, a lesser man might tell you to go home and get your shine box, but I don't. Because you wouldn't even know what that means, Ted Cruz. I mean, to do that with Goodfellas, with that accent. Is there anything in pop culture that I love that you can't ruin?

[Jon Stewart]

But, dad, I'm a vegetarian.

[Shaun Stewart]

I don't eat animals. But, Lisa, animals are so delicious. There's the animal we get bacon from the animal we get ham from the animal we get sausage from. Dad, that's all the same animal. Smithers, release the hounds. Excellent. They're not booing, they're saying boo. Urns. Imagine having to endure a Texas power outage with this guy. Who wants to hear my Apu? Anyone? Well, he ruined my love of the Simpsons. At least I've still got my favorite franchise, Star wars, all to myself, so I don't have to. The Force is strong with this one. There is no try, do or do not. At best, he sounds like Yoda with a sinus infection. Trying not to come do or do. You may enjoy Star Wars, Said Cruise, but there's one thing we'll never have in common, and that's my comfort movie, the Princess Bride. A fantastical tale of adventure and true love with an outstanding cast and, oh, you know what's coming you know what's coming with an outstanding cast, including the inimitable. Oh, it just roll it. So what is it you have that's so worth living for? He presses on his chest and Wesley goes. True love. Liar. Shut up, witch. I'm not a witch. I'm your wife. But after what you just said, I wish I don't say that name. What? Humperdink.

[Jon Stewart]

Humpadick.

[Shaun Stewart]

Humpadick. Humpadick. I can't hear you. So, whoa. That was a straight. I'm like, that was a one man show. Do you know how hard it is to make Mario Lopez uncomfortable? Truly. Mario Lopez, the man who, need I remind you, did this dance in a tank tee in front of everyone at the max. Look, I don't want to get sidetracked by Ted Cruz's Vegas residency. I just want to say this to Trump's defenders. You don't have to bend over backwards trying to make Trump's authoritarian power grabs seem like the rule of law. He does not give a f anymore. He's saying it straight up. Trump is saying, the people like dictators. Trump is saying, I hate my opponents and I want them punished. And Trump is saying, I'll use all the levers of government at my disposal to accomplish that goal. So you can get on board with that and say, I'm with that, or you can join the rest of us and fight like hell for this constitutional reflection. Let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. Hold on. It is a form of representational government worth preserving and defending. And as the great Winston Churchill once said, we shall never surrender. Mother. When we come back, Jacinda Ardern will be joining us. Don't go well, this episode is brought to you by FXX and Hulu. An all new season of Futurama is back. Blending heartfelt moments with razor sharp humor while accidentally saving the day. The Planet Express crew is back, defying gravity and common sense. From the creator of The Simpsons comes 10 new episodes where the romance is hotter, the threats are bigger, and the action hits harder. Don't miss the all new season of Futurama. Watch it Mondays on FXX or streaming on Hulu. Lowe's knows how to help make your home holiday ready for less. Get select style selections vinyl flooring for just $1.99 per square foot and have it installed before the festivities begin. Our team can help you every step of the way. C Lowe's Red Best association or visit Lowes.com HolidayInstall to get started. Lowe's. We help you save basic Install only. Date restrictions apply. Subject to availability. Install by independent contractors. See associate for details. Contiguous US only. Hey. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight, very excited. She served as New Zealand's 40th Prime Minister. Her best selling memoir is called A Different Kind of Power. Please welcome to the program the right honorable Dame Jacinda Ardern. How are you? I'm well now, I want to be correct. Right honorable Dame Jacinda.

[Jon Stewart]

It's a lot. It's a lot. Please, Jacinda. Just Jacinda. Thank you.

[Shaun Stewart]

I am referred to as Admiral Stewart. I will have you know. How are you doing? You put out your autobiography where you talk a little bit about sort of how you grew up and the challenges that you faced as prime minister. Boy, you got hit with a lot of crises as you went there. You put out a children's book and you did a documentary.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, yeah, that one came a little bit, a little bit later. My husband, he's a broadcaster. And so when I found myself, you know, seven weeks out from an election, suddenly running to be prime minister, he just picked up a camera and started recording. You know, we didn't have a set plan for it. Maybe it would just be a nice record for our daughter. But then after I left office, it was turned into a documentary.

[Shaun Stewart]

It's really remarkable one because it's, it's remarkable because it's very unfiltered in a way that you don't often see with politicians. You were not, as might be micromanaged here from certain personalities in the edit room going, don't put that in. No, I don't want to snap, you.

[Jon Stewart]

Know, and I think that's obvious.

[Shaun Stewart]

It's raw.

[Jon Stewart]

It's obvious by the footage. You know, you're like, why would she, why would she have allowed that clip at that angle?

[Shaun Stewart]

More importantly, why would she have allowed her husband to film it?

[Jon Stewart]

Well, yeah, one thing I will say, so I've only seen the final version of it once, all the way through, and that was at Sundance Film Festival. So it was a very shared experience with the rest of the audience. And, you know, the bits that are in there, it's fair to say, don't include the number of times I told him to leave me alone and stop filming. But, yeah, I really, I believe that.

[Shaun Stewart]

You said, leave me alone.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, that was the polite version.

[Shaun Stewart]

Yes, I was gonna say.

[Jon Stewart]

But, you know, I'm so glad he persisted because, you know, there's a story I hope that's told which isn't just about, you know, what's it like to lead through a domestic terror attack and through a pandemic and have a baby? And I hope that other within a very short, a short period of time, 90 minutes as it happens. And I hope that story is that there's still humans doing these jobs and we'll make mistakes and you know, sometimes we'll get things right and sometimes we'll get things wrong. But we need more leaders who are willing to be humans while they're in the job.

[Shaun Stewart]

Very interesting. What would that look like? It was, you know, so your background, you know, you have this childhood, your father works in law enforcement, you go into these small farming communities in New Zealand or you go around and there's. The stories are really charming, but it's very clear. It informs the humanity of your politics and it's what gets you involved and it's what gets your party, you know, to really tie with the Conservative party and then, and break the tie so that you end up being Prime Minister. But you don't necessarily get a chance to govern that way because you're hit immediately with these terrible crises.

[Jon Stewart]

We were hit with a lot, but you know, at the same time, you know, I'd like to think that we still made progress on the things that really mattered to us. We still did a lot on child poverty. We still put in really important climate change law. I remember during COVID you know, we were really worried about the number of that were losing work because particularly you saw insecure jobs which were dominated by women that were really, really struggling. And so we put a food in schools program in knowing that part time work would likely support women into the workforce. And so you tried to cover off one crisis with another long term thing that you really wanted to do while in office. So we tried to do both. But there's no doubt it's hard when you're managing a pandemic, when you're managing, you know, terror attacks, doing everything else. It is, it is, it is hard.

[Shaun Stewart]

It was also interesting within it to see the highs, you know, after Christchurch. Your leadership I think was lauded not just probably in New Zealand, but around the world for the way that you handled it, the empathy that you displayed going to the funeral, wearing a scarf 10 days later, coming up with legislation that's going to ban these types of terrible weapons, which I don't know if you follow. In this country we've done the same. We are, I think the word is agile when it, when it comes to these types of things. But to see really your approvals and you're Riding high on that and even early on in Covid, and then to see that turn was really jarring. And as an individual, having experienced that sense of the headiness of the popularity, and then suddenly faced with, you know, a woman right in your face going, you know, you. How does it feel to kill people during COVID or murder?

[Jon Stewart]

I think when you're in politics, the idea that you ever allow this hideous or this idea that you're riding high, I never felt that, you know, because I've been around politics for so long, I always held onto the idea. What goes up must come down, you know, and ultimately, whatever political capital that you might have, you're gonna need to spend it. And, you know, the best we can hope for is that politicians spend it on doing the right thing. Even if it's something that's hard, even if it's something that, you know, might not be popular. Just doing the right.

[Shaun Stewart]

I see where we've made a mistake. The right thing. Yeah, we haven't tried that one yet. Did you. In 2019, you know, did you deal with Trump in the first administration? Had you had much?

[Jon Stewart]

I did.

[Shaun Stewart]

And did he ever say, like, I think I'm going to invade your country? Did he ever. What was it like to deal with him? So many leaders we've seen find a way to try and flatter him personally while doing whatever it is they want to do, otherwise.

[Jon Stewart]

I remember a lot of our. I mean, one of the interactions I talk a little bit about in the book, and it was a phone call after our domestic terror attack where a white supremacist took the lives of 51 members of our Muslim community and.

[Shaun Stewart]

And broadcast it on social media. And it was.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, and so we had it. This is one of the things that happens in leadership. You. You do contact one another and. And you pass on your country's condolences and you offer support and assistance. So we. We had a phone call like that. That was my second interaction. And at that time, you know, I thought, what can I ask? What can I ask of a country like the United States in that moment? And I remember the only thing I asked for was love and support for Muslim communities, because that was what was needed. Yes. You don't ask, you don't get, I guess.

[Shaun Stewart]

But even when you ask.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, but I mean, at that time, you know, I. I still. I still find it deeply sad that it, you know, warrants comment. The idea that, you know, mourning with a community who have lost so many of its members should be something that, you know, warrants Conversation.

[Shaun Stewart]

But it does now.

[Jon Stewart]

But that's sad.

[Shaun Stewart]

And by the way, on the flip side, you just see we've just had another terrible assassination along with other mass shootings along that time. And social media, you see in these tribal communities, in these silos, the worst of humanity, it is. It reflects and magnifies people's worst instincts. It's as though they think shitposting is legally mandatory. Like that they have to jump in, that someone must know their worst inner thought in a moment, even if it's going to cause terrible pain to other communities. I imagine you had to deal with social media companies and all that because of what happened on Christchurch was. Was public.

[Jon Stewart]

It was live streamed. It was live streamed. If you can imagine an attack as horrific as that, targeting Friday prayers to maximize the number of victims. And it was livestreamed for 17 minutes. And absolutely.

[Shaun Stewart]

What was the attitude? Trying to contain that and get it pulled down? And was there a sense of them saying, yeah, we have a responsibility.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, I mean, to control that. This is one thing, actually, that you can get agreement on. Everyone agrees that violent extremism and terrorism in the online environment is a bad thing. You can actually get some agreement. What's difficult is to get those who carry some responsibility to do something about it. And so.

[Shaun Stewart]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

You know that video was uploaded 1.5 million times onto Facebook once every second for the first 24 hours. It was uploaded onto YouTube. It was prolific. It was every. Everywhere.

[Shaun Stewart]

Right.

[Jon Stewart]

So some things have changed as a result. Some things have changed because of some of the work we did. But the pathways to radicalisation have got worse and we can't sit by and do nothing and expect it will improve. We have to start taking responsibility for each of our own areas to change. What is that radicalization that is happening?

[Shaun Stewart]

You guys did do that. I mean, not necessarily to. Look, it's very difficult to design a society to out strategize crazy like that's going to exist. But you can do things. Maybe.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm pleased you're not putting that all on New Zealand. I mean, we can do a lot. We can do a lot.

[Shaun Stewart]

But I was hoping you'd pick up on that. It's your fault for burying the ring there. The ring is what's causing a lot of this.

[Jon Stewart]

I find it often go. It often comes back to that, by.

[Shaun Stewart]

The way, I want to point out. So I went to say hello before the show and it was lovely. And you have an enormous. In her dressing room. Enormous, I guess, posse, you'd call it.

[Jon Stewart]

There's Two of them.

[Shaun Stewart]

No, let's face that. You roll like Snoop. But she had laid out a lovely display of New Zealand chocolates on a plate. The. What is the name of the chocolate?

[Jon Stewart]

I think you'll find it.

[Shaun Stewart]

Oh, for God's sakes.

[Jon Stewart]

Whittaker's Hooky Pookie.

[Shaun Stewart]

So I walked in and she has a full display of Whitaker's Hokey Pokey Cross. I could have put the whole block.

[Jon Stewart]

It would have melted in my trousers. But I did bring.

[Shaun Stewart]

And it was, and I have to say, delicious. But I didn't know if I was supposed to say, like, wow, New Zealand. Nice.

[Jon Stewart]

Could you just say that directly down?

[Shaun Stewart]

Wow, New Zealand. Great chocolate.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Shaun Stewart]

I am curious because I think we view, you know, New Zealand as kind of a refuge. And when you view what's happening in the United States, does it seem surreal, shocking, expected? What's your vision on kind of how our politics is the direction it's moving?

[Jon Stewart]

I don't think you're alone. You know, I don't think you're alone. There's a globalisation of political culture and I think different nations are feeling it to different degrees. But there's a global survey done by Edelman. It's a trust barometer. And what I've seen across countries is an increase in the grievance people feel. They feel that political institutions are not only not making their lives better, they're making them harder. 61 of people feel that way.

[Shaun Stewart]

This is worldwide.

[Jon Stewart]

This is worldwide. This is a global survey. And then As a consequence, 4 out of 10 think hostile action is justified because of it. Hostile action, Hostile action against spreading disinformation or, you know, violent online engagement or, you know, even vandalizing public property, you know, so. So in order to solve this. Second, because political violence is never okay and disinformation solves nothing. In order to solve that, we also have to think about what's causing people's grievance in the first place.

[Shaun Stewart]

Right?

[Jon Stewart]

And that's where, as political leaders, we have to take responsibility. The easiest trick is to weaponise fear and blame. But that is what leaves us.

[Shaun Stewart]

That's the way it's. To quote Yoda, I believe that may lead to the dark side.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, in my view, I mean, does it leave our societies and our communities better or worse off? I think that answer is obvious.

[Shaun Stewart]

But do you wonder sometimes, is that even the goal anymore? Because I wonder as I watch the political system and I think, are they cynically using fear and weaponizing it? Is power really the principle that they're pursuing because that you could make the case that it's divorced from outcome, that it's really just a tool to allow them to consolidate power.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, then I guess it depends what you think the definition of power is. What is power? In my mind, it's responsibility.

[Shaun Stewart]

Yeah. That's not their definition. Let me go back to. I've gotten my notes here. Do the right thing. No, but that's exactly right. In your experience, is it we live in a complex ecosystem. Is it some combination of sort of these. The more online that we might live, the isolation people felt from COVID the pandemic's residual effects kind of knocking us a bit off of our center, and that this is a cycle that we find ourselves in. That's going to be difficult to unwind.

[Jon Stewart]

I think so, right? I think so. And I think.

[Shaun Stewart]

What are some of the things that you would look at to help unwind?

[Jon Stewart]

Well, in my mind, the part of the prescription is the type of leadership we have. You know, in these times, when people do have sense of uncertainty and fear comes out of a sense of uncertainty, when they have financial insecurity. And that is also a feature I think we see globally. When you have those things, leadership matters. And the US has been in times that I imagine would have felt as difficult as this before. The aftermath of a war, a pandemic in 1918, and then the Great Depression.

[Shaun Stewart]

Sure. World War II.

[Jon Stewart]

And your leader was FDR, a great empathetic leader who didn't use fear and blame, but instead walked through.

[Shaun Stewart]

He didn't turn the Japanese. But, you know, I guess the point is, like, we do it. We have a. No, I just.

[Jon Stewart]

I don't know where you go after that.

[Shaun Stewart]

The point is we have a. Sometimes a nostalgia for history that doesn't allow us to judge ourselves properly. And it's why it's so difficult that right now when we look and we say, like, gosh, we tell such a bad story about slavery, we should really lighten that up. You know, countries that can. That can face their own dark histories have an opportunity to make those. To make those reforms.

[Jon Stewart]

And acknowledging your history. And acknowledging your history. And of course, New Zealand has a. Has a lot to acknowledge. Acknowledging your history is not an unpatriotic act. It's a way of saying, I love my country and I know it can be better. But the point I was trying to make before you brutally derailed it.

[Shaun Stewart]

Yes.

[Jon Stewart]

Was that empathetic and right in these times?

[Shaun Stewart]

Yes.

[Jon Stewart]

My view, the answer is empathetic leadership it takes courage to be empathetic in these times. It is a courageous act to be optimistic in these times, but we need more of it, not less.

[Shaun Stewart]

Absolutely. Have you seen, is there a leader out there that you see on the world stage and you think, boy, that's something. That's the seed of something really interesting, really beautiful, really coming together?

[Jon Stewart]

Well, two things. I think the president of Mexico is governing through really difficult times, but doing so with dignity, integrity. I think that it's really interesting that on two recent election nights, prime ministers who won office used their election night victory speeches leaders to talk about kindness. And that was Mark Carney in Canada and Anthony Albanese in Australia. Why aren't we talking about that? Why aren't we talking about those examples where leaders are saying these are values that matter? So let's talk about those that are being a little more optimistic in these dark times rather than some others.

[Shaun Stewart]

Right? Absolutely. Well, it's fantastic you're going to be teaching that. Am I correct? You are teaching empathetic leadership?

[Jon Stewart]

Yes. I've built something called the Field Fellowship. It's supporting politicians still out there doing the hard graph, leading with compassion. So I have a program to support the work they're doing and try and spotlight some of their work.

[Shaun Stewart]

It's fantastic. Is there any consideration you're still very, very young to be eligible to be president of the United States. You have to be, from what I understand, 90. Is there any chance you re enter a political arena at some point or is that a part of your life that you'd like to move past it?

[Jon Stewart]

I'm very happy as just solely an ambassador for New Zealand's chocolate.

[Shaun Stewart]

It's very good, the chocolate, the HBO documentary film Prime Minister. It debuts September 30th. Children's book Mom's Busy Work is available now. Dame Jacinda Arder Crit Break we'll be right by. This podcast is supported by FX's English teacher. Last year's critically acclaimed series returns to follow Evan, Gwen and Markie as they vie for their students divided attention. See why Cosmopolitan called its premiere season a masterclass of comedy while Glamor raved it's the year's funniest and most heartwarming new comedy series. FX's English Teacher returns September 25th on FX. All episodes streaming on Hulu, Disney and Pixar's Elio has a new home now streaming on Disney. That's amazing. Critics agree Helio is fun and full of heart and humor. These are the lava tunnels. I am not fireproof.

[Jon Stewart]

Just get in my mouth.

[Shaun Stewart]

Actually kind of comfy in here. It is. It's certified fresh and verified high.

[Jon Stewart]

Ta da.

[Shaun Stewart]

Helio's bringing the whole whole family together on Disney. One, two, two and a half, three Disney and Pixar Zelio now streaming on Disney created pg. Hey, what's up? Show for tonight. And before we go, we're going to check in with your host for the rest of the week, Mr. Jordan Clapper. Jordan. Jordan, what are you going to be covering for us this week? Oh, well, it's un week in New York, Jon. My favorite time of year. Because there's nothing like seeing the world's most powerful leaders out and about in New York City. I mean, just today I saw Javier Milei at the Eminem store, Emmanuel Macron cut me off on a Citi bike, and the prime Minister of Greece told me to get the out of his bodega. Jordan, I'm just curious, are you sure that those were the world leaders that you saw or were those just regular New Yorkers? I did a model UN back in high school. I think I know the players. Anyway, I gotta bounce. I'm going with Gaddafi to see Mamma Mia tonight. He lives in my building. Can you believe it? It? No, I can't. Sounds fun, Jordan. Have a good time. Here it is. Your moment is end. You know, JFK said some men see things as they are and ask why. I see things that never were and ask why not? Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. This has been a Comedy Central podcast. Your sausage McMuffin with egg didn't change. Your receipt did. The sausage McMuffin with egg extra value meal includes a hash brown and a small coffee for just $5 only at McD for a limited time. Prices and participation may vary. Mike and Alyssa are always trying to outdo each other. When Alyssa got a small water bottle, Mike showed up with a 4 liter jug. When Mike started gardening, Alyssa started beekeeping. Oh, come on. They called it truce for their holiday and used Expedia trip planner to collaborate on all the details of their trip. Once there, Mike still did more laps around the pool. Whatever. You were made to outdo your holidays. We were made to help organize the competition. Expedia made to travel.