John Phelan Fired as Navy Sec., Replaced with Witch-Hunter Hung Cao | Ben McKenzie

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: John Phelan Fired as Navy Sec., Replaced with Witch-Hunter Hung Cao | Ben McKenzie
Host: Michael Kosta (for Jon Stewart/The Daily Show News Team)
Date: April 24, 2026

---

Overview

This episode dives into two major threads:

1. The shake-up in the US Navy leadership during a tense clash with Iran, featuring the ousting of Navy Secretary John Phelan and the rise of the controversial Hung Cao.
2. An extended, insightful interview with Ben McKenzie on his anti-crypto crusade, wrapped around his documentary "Everyone Is Lying to You for Money."

The discussion is packed with satire, sharp political critique, and cultural commentary—staying true to The Daily Show’s signature tone.

---

Key Discussion Points

I. Navy Secretary Shake-Up & Witch-Hunting (00:49–11:41)

Turbulence During Crisis

• Context: Amid U.S. naval operations blockading Iranian ports in the Strait of Hormuz, Navy Secretary John Phelan is abruptly fired.
• Satirical Jabs:
  • “You’re in the middle of a major naval operation and you’re firing the guy whose job is to be in charge of major naval operations just because, what, he looks like a high school principal who’s always asking the girls for hugs?” —Michael Kosta (02:30)

The Backstory on Phelan

• Phelan, a Trump donor and Florida businessman, had no military experience before his appointment 13 months ago—highlighting a pattern of cronyism.
• “That’s it. They put a guy in charge of the U.S. Navy because he’s good at being rich?” —Michael Kosta (04:16)
• Compounding concerns, Phelan appeared on Jeffrey Epstein’s flight logs.
  • "That plane was like a LinkedIn for creeps.” —Michael Kosta (04:46)

Enter Hung Cao

• Credentials: A combat veteran with 20 years in the Navy but known for right-wing activism.
• Controversial Beliefs:
  • Outspoken about “Christian persecution,” referencing renaming a site “Lovers Point” as proof of anti-Christian sentiment. (06:10)
  • Warns, “Monterey is a very dark place now. A lot of witchcraft and the Wiccan community has really taken over there and we can’t let that happen in Virginia.” (06:57)
• Alpha Warfighting:
  • “What we need is alpha males and alpha females who are gonna rip out their own guts. Eat 'em and ask for seconds.” (08:10)

The Search for “Normal” Leadership

• The show lampoons the thin talent pool for the Navy role, parading out a list of unfit or comical alternatives (crypto launderers, January 6 “amphibious” insurrectionists, Trump mega-donors).
• Jordan Klepper (satirically):
  • "Nope. Afraid of witches was indeed their best option.” (09:09)
  • “There were really only two types of candidates: donors or the loonies. All the more experienced candidates were hesitant about committing war crimes." (09:16)

Comic Climax

• The only candidate without scandal? Ursula, the sea witch (from The Little Mermaid).
  • “She’s promised to put Iran’s naval fleet under the sea.” (11:11)
  • “I don’t want Ursula the sea witch commanding the U.S. Navy.” —Michael Kosta (11:15)

---

II. Trump’s War on Windmills (12:20–18:34)

The Vendetta Against Wind Energy

• Trump’s Actions:

  • Halts federal wind projects via executive order, even during a global energy crisis.
  • Pays a French firm $1 billion to cancel two offshore wind farms.

• Personal Motivation:

  • Trump's long-standing hatred for windmills began with proposed wind farms “spoiling” his Scottish golf course (15:30).
  • Quixotic legal battles:
    • “We’re suing, essentially, Scotland.” —Guest/Trump, mockingly (16:23)
    • Trump loses in UK Supreme Court.

• Absurd Claims:

  • Windmills lower home values, kill birds, cause cancer, and “drive the whales frickin’ crazy.”
    • “They are so unattractive, they kill the birds. You want to see a bird graveyard? … The noise causes cancer. It drives the whales frickin' crazy. You know what it is? I want to be a whale psychiatrist.” —Trump clip (17:15)

• Desi Lydic’s Satire:

  • Trump’s war on windmills is “like suing a Nobel Prize made of boobs.”
  • “Windmills are the morning after pill of the Strait of Hormuz—I always say it!” (14:09)
  • Punches up the point that while the world moves toward renewables, Trump leaves America behind.

---

III. Interview: Ben McKenzie on the Crypto Scam (19:32–32:03)

From Actor to Crypto Skeptic

• McKenzie discusses his pivot from actor to author/documentarian exposing crypto scams.

  • “I actually don’t know you from the O.C.—I know you from crypto.” —Michael Kosta (20:15)

• Motivation:

  • Pandemic boredom and an economics background led him to research crypto.
  • Outrage over celebrities like Matt Damon shilling for crypto.
  • "Matt Damon doesn’t know all about blockchain." —Ben McKenzie (21:49)

What Is Money, Really?

• McKenzie:

  • “Money’s made up. … It’s all fake, it’s all real. It’s a social construct, just like government or religion, and it’s only as strong as the social consensus that underlies it.” (23:30)

  • Difference with crypto: It lacks real trust—“crypto says we can replace all that pesky human interaction with computer code. … Well, that’s a lie.” (24:13)

Dangers and Scams

• Example: Sam Bankman-Fried’s FTX scam involved changing a single line of code, which McKenzie says proves you can’t “trust the code”—code is written (and manipulated) by people. (24:29–25:58)

• Pulls the curtain further: The MIT Media Lab’s bitcoin research was secretly financed by Jeffrey Epstein.

• “Bitcoin is full of lies. It’s full of misinformation, it’s full of lies. It’s also full of criminals.” —Ben McKenzie (25:56)

Celebrity Endorsements & Regulation Lapses

• Celebs (like Matt Damon) were paid in cash, not crypto, to promote it to the masses.
• McKenzie:
  • “They were paid in real dollars to convince you to take your real dollars and turn them into something else.” (28:01)
• The industry dodges regulation—crypto isn’t legally categorized as an investment, sidestepping critical consumer protection laws.
  • “Crypto doesn’t want that. I think that’s very, very telling.” (26:48)

Why Young Men Are Crypto’s Biggest Marks

• Men, especially young men, have higher risk tolerance and greater shame/pride issues, making them prime targets. (28:25–29:28)
• "To paraphrase Matt Damon's ad, what are you, a pussy? Buy crypto." —Ben McKenzie (29:10)

The Human Cost

• Interviewed Celsius scam victims—all still believed in crypto despite huge losses.
• McKenzie stresses, “The cruelest trick is to turn the blame back on the mark themselves. But I genuinely do care about these guys.” (29:57)

Advice for Listeners

• Only 5–6% are truly deep into crypto; the vast majority have never touched it.
• Core message:
  • “It’s not you. It’s them. They’re lying to you for money.” —Ben McKenzie (31:42)

---

Notable Quotes & Moments

• On Navy appointments:

  • “When you’re using a drag queen to recruit for the Navy, that’s not the people we want. What we need is alpha males and alpha females.” —Hung Cao (07:34)
  • “You want alpha males and females who eat their own ripped out guts?” —Michael Kosta (08:23)

• On Trump’s anti-renewable zeal:

  • “If I want to pay a fortune to get nothing, I’ll buy season tickets to the Mets.” —Desi Lydic (15:10)

• On crypto’s core flaw:

  • “Code does not fall from the sky. People write code. And in this case, he changed the code and he stole the money.” —Ben McKenzie (25:53)

• On the psychological profile of crypto investors:

  • “Men are better marks…they have a sense of shame and pride. We don’t like to talk about our feelings as much.” —Ben McKenzie (29:20)

---

Important Timestamps

• 00:49: Start of episode, Michael Kosta teases topics.
• 01:46: Strait of Hormuz blockade; Navy Secretary John Phelan fired.
• 03:10: Shipbuilding 'disputes' cited as reasons for firing.
• 04:16: Phelan's inexperience and connections to Jeffrey Epstein mentioned.
• 05:03: Hung Cao introduced as new Navy Secretary.
• 06:10: Hung Cao's views on “Christian persecution” and witches.
• 07:34: Alpha males/females “eating their own guts” rant.
• 09:09–11:27: Jordan Klepper’s satirical rundown of other “candidates.”
• 12:20: Transition to Trump’s war on windmills.
• 13:53: $1 billion wind farm cancellation story.
• 15:30: Trump's animosity began with Scottish golf course.
• 16:22: Trump “suing” Scotland.
• 17:15: Trump’s wild claims about windmills (birds, whales, cancer).
• 19:32: Interview with Ben McKenzie begins.
• 21:08: Why McKenzie became a crypto critic.
• 23:30: “What is money?” discussion.
• 24:13: Traditional trust in money vs. “trusting code.”
• 25:29: Sam Bankman-Fried and FTX scam explained.
• 28:25: Gender and risk, targeting of young men in crypto.
• 29:27: Emotional pain of multilevel marketing losses and victim-blaming.
• 31:30: Only a small minority deep into crypto; majority “it’s not you, it’s them.”

---

Takeaways

• Military Appointments: Trump’s leadership choices continue to favor donors and ideologues over competence, even in matters of war; new appointee Hung Cao brings culture-war baggage.
• Environmental Policy: Trump’s vendetta against wind power puts personal grudges and fossil fuel interests before national and global energy needs.
• Crypto Dangers: Ben McKenzie offers a passionate, accessible critique of the crypto industry—exposing its scams, psychological tactics, regulatory evasion, and celebrity complicity.

---

Tone & Style

The episode is sharp, irreverent, and loaded with biting satire—balancing real-world issues with comedic hyperbole. Expert interview segments are sprinkled with honest sincerity and audience empathy, especially around financial scams and their victims.

---

End of Summary

Transcript

[State Farm Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by State Farm. You know those friends who support your preference for podcasts over music on road trips. That's the energy State Farm brings to insurance. With over 19,000 local agents, they help you find the coverage that fits your needs so you can spend less time worrying about insurance and more time enjoying the ride. Download the State Farm app or go [e-mail] Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

[Michael Kosta]

Zootopia 2 has come home to Disney. Let's go get ready for a new case.

[Desi Lydic]

We're gonna crack this case and prove we're the greatest partners of all time. New friends, you are Gary the Snake. And your last name, the snake Dream team.

[State Farm Announcer]

New habitats. Zootopia has a secret reptile population.

[Michael Kosta]

You can watch the record breaking phenomenon at home.

[Ben McKenzie]

You're clearly barking at.

[Michael Kosta]

Zootopia 2. Now available on Disney. Rated PG. You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Michael Costa. Oh, yeah, babies. Whoa. Whoa. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Michael Kosta. We've got so much to talk about tonight. Pete Hegseth rocks the boat. Donald Trump declares war on windmills. And the Navy is about to make sure that witches get stitches. So let's get into the latest on the war in Iran.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Nothing bad can happen. It can only good happen.

[Michael Kosta]

All eyes are still on the Strait of Hormuz, which we can now all agree is the most important narrow waterway in the world. Look, no offense to the Panama Canal, but if I were you, I'd kill myself anyway. As part of Trump's efforts to pressure Iran to open the strait, the US Navy is blockading all Iranian ports along the coastline, which is a very complex, difficult task. But luckily, we've got the steady, stable leadership of US Navy Secretary John Phelan to get the job done.

[State Farm Announcer]

US Navy Secretary John, ousted from his position Effected immediately.

[Michael Kosta]

What? You're in the middle of a major naval operation and you're firing the guy whose job is to be in charge of major naval operations just because, what, he looks like a high school principal who's always asking the girls for hugs? How else are you going to say congrats on sophomore year? There must be a reason tensions between

[Narrator/Reporter]

Phelan and Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth had been mounting. According to multiple sources familiar with the relationship, the approach Phelan was taking when it came to shipbuilding appears to have been the main reason for the firing.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. I can't tell you how many friends I've lost arguing about shipbuilding. It's actually kind of sad. Tim, Gary, Todd, I know we haven't spoken since our big fight about whether a displacement hall is superior to a semi displacement hall, but I still think that a semi displacement offers better balance of range and speed. But I wish it hadn't torn our friendship apart, especially since none of us were actually building a ship. Also, sorry for banging your wives. In retrospect, that was childish and uncalled for. I think that'll do it. But this firing is a little concerning, especially because we're losing all of the military expertise that I'm sure John Phelan had been bringing for the job for,

[Narrator/Reporter]

I assume, years before taking the job just 13 months ago, Phelan was a Florida businessman and a major donor to President Trump's campaigns. He had never served in the military.

[Michael Kosta]

Holy shit. That's it. They put a guy in charge of the US Navy because he's good at being rich? Secretary, six incoming torpedoes. Quick throw some money at him, I mean. But still, Trump hangs out with lots of rich people. There must have been something more about John Phelan that he liked.

[Jordan Klepper]

John Phelan is named on a flight manifest indicating that he flew on Jeffrey Epstein's private plane in March 2006.

[Michael Kosta]

That plane was like a LinkedIn for creeps. Someone on there must have been like, yeah, I diddle kids, but only for the networking. So maybe it's not so bad that Hegseth isn't feeling feeling anymore, but who's taking the helm from him?

[Narrator/Reporter]

Replacing him as acting head of the Navy will be Under Secretary Hung Kao, a combat veteran who ran unsuccessful campaigns for the House and Senate in Virginia.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

This is a great gentleman. I love his name. Hungkow. I love that name.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay, sure, I'm sure he loves that name now, but how long until Trump forgets Hungkow's name and starts trying to get close? Hey, the carrier's under attack. Where's Fat Dong? Huh? Anyone seen Chubby Wang? By the way, Hung Cow was my nickname in high school. That's right, ladies. I was well endowed and my farts caused climate change. Now, to be clear, Kao does have some things that you want in a Navy Secretary, like 20 years experience in the Navy. But in case you're worried that Trump accidentally hired someone normal, not so fast. For example, he seems very concerned about Christians being persecuted, even when it's a

[Interviewee/Expert]

bit of a stretch, there's a place in Monterey, California, called Lovers Point. Yeah, the original name was Lovers of Christ Point, but now it's become they took out the Christ. It's Lovers Point.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, okay, that's very interesting. So that's actually just like Orlando originally was called Orland. Don't you love Jesus is changing it from Lovers of Christ Point to Lovers Point. I mean if they changed it to Rim Job Lovers Point. Yeah, fine, that might send a signal. But they didn't. And that's why I have no interest in going. But sorry, I interrupted. You were talking about how all the Christians were driven out of Monterey, California. So what happened next?

[Interviewee/Expert]

And it's really. Monterey is a very dark place now. A lot of witchcraft and the Wiccan community has really taken over there and we can't let that happen in Virginia.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, no, yeah, we can't let, we can't let Virginia be taken over by witches. Also, I have a, I have a follow up question. What the are you talking about? Why, I mean, why is everybody they appoint so crazy? Can they just find a normal person with a normal head on his shoulders who believes normal things? What kind of sailors does this guy even want to recruit?

[Interviewee/Expert]

When you're using a drag queen to recruit for the Navy, that's not the people we want. What we need is alpha males and alpha females.

[Michael Kosta]

Alpha females, right. So drag queens. Maybe he's right. Maybe he's right. Maybe we need Alpha males who will beat the shit out of our enemies and Alpha females who will mock their insecurities so precisely they'll never leave the house again. But what exactly will the Alpha males and females do that others can't?

[Interviewee/Expert]

What we need is Alpha males and Alpha females who are gonna rip out their own guts. Eat em and ask for seconds. Those are young men and women that are gonna win wars.

[Michael Kosta]

You want Alpha males and females who eat their own ripped out guts? Maybe. I don't know what war is. I mean, I guess it might freak out the enemy if they see the alpha soldiers pulling out their own stomachs and eating them. But that's only going to work once. Also, not to be nitpicky, but if you eat your own guts, where do they go? For more on Hung Kao and his new leadership at the Navy, let's go live to Jordan Klepper in Arlington, Virginia. Jordan, was there no one else who could have filled the role that wasn't a Trump donor or insane extremist?

[Jordan Klepper]

Nope. Back to you, Michael.

[Michael Kosta]

But come on, surely there was one person who was a little more qualified.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, I'VE seen the entire list of candidates. Michael and Man. Afraid of Witches was indeed their best option. You know, there were really only two types of candidates for this. Donors or the loonies. I mean, all the more experienced candidates were hesitant about committing war crimes or holding Pete Hegseth's hair back after happy hour at Ruby Tuesdays.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay, okay. Well, then who else were they considering?

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, for example, they look closely at this guy. His name is John Trunk.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay. And he served in the Navy.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, not the Navy per se, but he was patient zero on that cruise ship where everyone got dysentery.

[Michael Kosta]

Does he have any military experience?

[Jordan Klepper]

It depends. Would you consider funneling crypto to Barron Trump's offshore bank account to be military experience?

[Michael Kosta]

No. No.

[Jordan Klepper]

Then no, he does not have military experience. But if he doesn't, float your boat. Little maritime humor there. Then the administration also considered Carson McDougal.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, okay. He looks like a sailor at least.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes, he was the admiral of the January 6th Amphibious Fleet. They tried to storm the Capitol by sea, but failed to realize the reflecting pool is more of an inland pond.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay, no, no, no, no, no. Go back to the Trump donors. Who else do we have? Sure.

[Jordan Klepper]

Trump also considered mega donor Steve Richmond. That's him right there in the middle

[Michael Kosta]

Jordan. I refuse to believe there wasn't a single candidate who wasn't a Trump crony or right wing extremist.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, I mean, there was one other in the mix. An expert at sea based warfare, a strong negotiator with no ties to Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, where have you been hiding this guy? He sounds perfect.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, not a he, Michael.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

She.

[Jordan Klepper]

Her name is Ursula and she's.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

She's.

[Jordan Klepper]

She's promised to put Iran's naval fleet under Darcy.

[Ben McKenzie]

This is.

[Michael Kosta]

This is so stupid. I don't want Ursula the sea witch commanding the U.S. navy. Oh, well, well, well.

[Jordan Klepper]

You don't like witches either, huh?

[Michael Kosta]

Well.

[Jordan Klepper]

Sound. Somebody's ready to board the USS Hong Kong.

[Michael Kosta]

Fair point. Jordan Klepper, everyone. When we come back, we found out how Trump defeated the wind. Don't go away.

[Amazon Advertiser]

Amazon presents Jeff vs. Taco Truck Salsa. Whether it's verde roja or the orange one. For Jeff, trying any salsa is like playing Russian roulette with a flamethrower. Luckily, Jeff saved with Amazon and stocked up on antacids, ginger tea and milk. Habanero. More like habanero. Yes. Save the everyday with Amazon.

[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. Yesterday. Yesterday was Earth Day. You might have spent it admiring nature or finally putting down that pathetic ficus in your bedroom window that's been whispering, kill me. But Donald Trump's relationship to the environment is a more complicated subject. For more, we turn to Desi Lydic in our ongoing segment, the Art of the Altercation.

[Desi Lydic]

We all know Donald Trump has a long list of enemies. Iran, Democrats, the far left radicals known as the Catholic Church. But there's only one opponent that Trump hates so much that when he goes after them, he actually becomes them.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

You know, the windmills.

[Michael Kosta]

Boom, boom, boom. Windmills, window boom.

[Desi Lydic]

That's right. Whether it's a person from another country or an inanimate object, Trump will do the accent. And you might be saying, wait, desi, aren't those wind turbines? Yes, they used to be, but Trump calls them windmills. So they're windmills now. You know, like how this is now the Gulf of America. This is the Trump Kennedy center, and these are healthy angles. And boy, oh, boy, Trump has gone after these windmills with a vengeance. The President signed an executive order on his first day in office this term bringing federal wind projects to a halt.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

There are windmills all over the place and they are losers.

[Desi Lydic]

Total losers. And you know what? While we're at it, hey, pinwheels right off. Okay, okay. You're not even that whimsical, you glittery bitches. But keep in mind, all of that took place before the war with Iran. Trump's obviously got more important things to worry about than some silly windmills. During a global energy crisis and his war in Iran, the Trump administration is paying a French energy company nearly $1 billion of US taxpayer money to cancel its plans to build two offshore wind farms. How could you do that in the middle of an energy crisis? Windmills should be our backup plan. It's like I always say, windmills are the morning after pill of the Strait of Hormuz. I always say it. I do. I always say that right before the person next to me on the subway changes seats. And spending a billion of our tax dollars to stop a project is insane. If I want to pay a fortune to get nothing, I'll buy season tickets to the Mets.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh,

[Desi Lydic]

but also, oh, and he's hated windmills forever, ever since 2012, when they hurt the thing Trump loves the most. No, not that. Not that either. I'm talking about his golf courses.

[Ben McKenzie]

The focus of his outrage. A proposed wind farm off the coast

[Jordan Klepper]

and in eyesight of Trump's Aberdeen golf course.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

It's one of the most serious problems that Scotland will have or has had. They're horrible looking structures. They make Noise.

[Desi Lydic]

So you've said. But I'm not sure that windmills make noise was a very effective argument. To Scotland. It's the bagpipe capital of the world. They love noise. Have you heard the Scottish version of the Headspace app? Almost fell asleep there. But Trump wasn't going down without a fight, and he took it all the way to the courts.

[Michael Kosta]

You're in litigation.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Who are you suing? We're suing, essentially, Scotland.

[Michael Kosta]

Nobody sues a country.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

We are. We're suing a country. We're doing very well.

[Desi Lydic]

Oh, shit. Nice knowing you, Scotland. Because when Donald Trump goes to court, it always goes exactly the way he

[Michael Kosta]

planned in a unanimous judgment. The court rejects both challenges. Yes.

[Desi Lydic]

Yes. The UK Supreme Court said, we think this is stupid and we wear these things to work. So obviously, Trump moved on from this defeat with his usual grace and hum, by which I mean he held onto this grudge like it was a Nobel Prize made of boobs. And windmills went from being a nuisance to, I guess, the source of all the problems on planet Earth.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

If you're in sight of a windmill, watch the value of your house go down by 65%. They got these big ugly suckers hanging down. They're all rustic and disgusting looking. They are so unattractive, they kill the birds. You want to see a bird graveyard? You just go take a look a bird graveyard. And they say the noise causes cancer. It drives the whales fricking crazy. You know what it is? I want to be a whale psychiatrist.

[Desi Lydic]

Whale psychiatrists might be the one job Trump would be worse at than President. I mean, he wouldn't listen. He'd fat shame them. And God knows what he tried to do to that blowout. Don't picture it. So that's Trump's war on windmills. And right now it feels like he's winning. Which means that as the rest of the world embraces alternative forms of energy, America is falling behind. And if that makes you feel powerless and stressed out, remember, no matter what Trump is doing to the country, you always have the power to take a beat and center yourself. Thank you, Michael.

[Michael Kosta]

Thank you, Desi. We come back. Ben McKenzie will be joining me on the show. Don't go away.

[Desi Lydic]

K Pop Demon Hunters, Haja Boys Breakfast Meal and Hunt Trick's Meal have just dropped at McDonald's. They're calling this a battle for the fans. What do you say to that, Rumi? It's not a battle. So glad the Saja boys could take breakfast and give our meal the rest of the day.

[Ben McKenzie]

It Is an honor to share.

[Desi Lydic]

No, it's our honor.

[Ben McKenzie]

It is our larger honor.

[Desi Lydic]

No, really, stop. You can really feel the respect in this battle. Pick a meal to pick a side

[Botox Advertiser]

and participate in McDonald's while supplies last.

[Desi Lydic]

Tomorrow morning is knocking. Stock your fridge now. How about a creamy mocha Frappuccino drink? Or a sweet vanilla smooth caramel, maybe? Or white chocolate mocha? Whichever you choose, delicious coffee awaits. Find Starbucks Frappuccino drinks wherever you buy your groceries.

[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back to the very show. My guest tonight is an actor, author and director of the new documentary Everyone Is Lying to you for Money. Please welcome Ben McKenzie. What's that? That's how you enter. That's how you do this. That's how you enter a late night show. Right there you. Are you guys excited for this movie? They're excited.

[Ben McKenzie]

You excited for this movie?

[Michael Kosta]

Hell, yeah. Yeah. Cryptocurrency.

[Ben McKenzie]

Very exciting.

[Michael Kosta]

You're pumped about it.

[Ben McKenzie]

Thank you.

[Michael Kosta]

I don't mean this to be insulting. I actually don't know you from the O.C. okay. And I know you from crypto.

[Interviewee/Expert]

Wow.

[Michael Kosta]

Isn't that crazy?

[Ben McKenzie]

I'll kiss you right now.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay, great. Can we do it that way? Is that what we want? I mean, you know, I mean, look,

[Ben McKenzie]

people want to OC Fantastic Southland, which was a fairly good show for. There's like. There's like.

[Michael Kosta]

There we go.

[Ben McKenzie]

There's like two dudes in the audience super happy about that. Gotham, you know, look.

[Michael Kosta]

Much like you, Michael.

[Ben McKenzie]

I can contain multitudes.

[Michael Kosta]

That's right.

[Ben McKenzie]

That's right.

[Michael Kosta]

Why crypto? What struck a nerve for you on this? The movie's great. Your book is great. You really know what the shit you're talking about, which I was like, whoa, this guy's not just an actor. This guy's got a brain on him. Why crypto?

[Ben McKenzie]

I have an undergraduate economics degree. It was the pandemic. I was bored as. Can I say, bored as.

[Michael Kosta]

Whatever you want. I was bored as.

[Ben McKenzie]

And a buddy of mine came to me and said, I should buy crypto. A lot of people have had this experience. My buddy has given me terrible financial advice before. And I was like, dave, I'm not gonna do this, but what is it? And he was like, it's a cryptocurrency. What is that? So I was like, it's money, right?

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

So you can buy stuff with it. Not quite. Not really. You know, and so I just got obsessed with it.

[Michael Kosta]

I saw this, the obsession on the movie. Man, your obsession comes through.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Yes.

[Ben McKenzie]

Yeah, I bet.

[Michael Kosta]

No, I mean, that and, like, I mean, you really dove in.

[Ben McKenzie]

I did, I did. And I was really frustrated originally by the celebrities selling it because, of course, like, if there's one thing that I knew, it was that Matt Damon doesn't know all about.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Blockchain.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, exactly, exactly.

[Ben McKenzie]

No offense to Matt. Great actor. Probably not going to get cast in one of his movies now.

[Michael Kosta]

That's okay.

[Ben McKenzie]

We all suffer.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, I actually really, really, really, really appreciate you speaking up, because you have a public. You are a public figure. And to just sit around passively when you know something is wrong is bullshit. And I'm sure it maybe has cost you. I don't know. I mean, but. But you really believe that this is a scam.

[Ben McKenzie]

Yeah. And I mean, I think we all are. So many of us feel lack of agency and we want to know what we can do.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

This is a weird thing for me to have done, but I do believe in it quite a lot.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

And what's wonderful is to get the response from not just you and not just the folks here, but, like, audiences. People are ready for this.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

They're tired of being told what's true and what's not true. Even their time.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

They're tired of being lied to for money, if you will.

[Michael Kosta]

Right, right.

[Ben McKenzie]

Yep. And they can't control us. We get to determine what kind of country we want to live in.

[Michael Kosta]

Love that. You ready for a.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Let's.

[Ben McKenzie]

Hit me.

[Michael Kosta]

What is money?

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Ah.

[Michael Kosta]

Love this question. You spell it out wonderfully in the book and in the documentary, but, I mean, isn't all of this a little bit bullshit? We're all just kind of agreeing on this paper.

[Ben McKenzie]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So money's made up.

[Michael Kosta]

Right?

[Ben McKenzie]

It's all made up. It's all fake. It's all real. So it's a social construct, just like government or religion. And it's only as strong as the social consensus that underlies it.

[Desi Lydic]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

And obviously, at this moment in history, in America, the social consensus is quite fragile, which has given crypto, you know, quite a lot of room and latitude to sort of infect the public, if you will, or a small segment of it.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

But at the end of the day, it's all made up. Now, the distinction here between crypto and our money, our dollar, is that if money is made up, what is it? It's trust.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

You take a dollar from me not because you trust me, but because you trust that you can use that dollar for what you want.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Yes.

[Ben McKenzie]

Crypto says we can replace all of that pesky human interaction with Computer code. All you have to do is trust the code. Well, that's a lie. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of what money is and. And the social construct nature of it. To give you a specific example, Sam Bankman.

[Narrator/Reporter]

Fried.

[Michael Kosta]

Yep.

[Ben McKenzie]

Now doing 25 years in jail.

[Michael Kosta]

I mean, you. You sat down with him in maybe one of the more awkward documentary interviews I've ever seen in my life. Wow.

[Ben McKenzie]

I appreciate that. That's my phrase.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, I mean, it was apparent that he thought it was gonna be an easy, chill interview, and all of a sudden, he's talking to someone that knows some shit.

[Ben McKenzie]

Boom.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

Ryan Atwood, that guy up.

[Michael Kosta]

Exactly. Yeah. He's now 25 years in a federal prison for fraud.

[Ben McKenzie]

So how did he run his scam? Yeah, he instructed one of his employees to change a single line of code which allowed him to borrow his customer's assets. So I can't. I can't think of a more vivid illustration of the intellectual fallacy that you can trust code. Code does not fall from the sky. People write code. And in this case, he changed the code and he stole the money. So bitcoin is full of lies. It's full of misinformation, it's full of lies. It's also full of criminals. Jeffrey Epstein funded bitcoin development in 2015 secretly via the MIT Media Lab. He was a convicted sex offender. The guy who the New York Times thinks is Satoshi Adam Back, his company, Blockstream.

[Michael Kosta]

Satoshi is kind of what started off.

[Ben McKenzie]

Satoshi is like the mystical cult like figure. Yeah, the wizard of Oz. Exactly, exactly. And so you peek behind the curtain and it's this guy. Well, New York Times thinks it might be Adam Back. Adam Back's company, Blockstream, received funding from Jeffrey Epstein.

[Michael Kosta]

Wow.

[Ben McKenzie]

Okay, so Satoshi, potentially.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

Getting funding from the world's most notorious pedophile. That's what we're talking about.

[Michael Kosta]

I sold my bitcoin after watching your documentary, so good for me. But I made some money.

[Ben McKenzie]

Great.

[Michael Kosta]

Made some money. And also before I bought it on Fidelity, I had to check all these boxes.

[Ben McKenzie]

Right.

[Michael Kosta]

This is high risk. I may not really know what's going on here.

[Ben McKenzie]

Are you sure you want to do this?

[Michael Kosta]

Exactly. I mean, there was a lot of boxes to check. Yeah. So to push back on you a little bit, I mean, I was aware that this was a high risk venture. I made a little bit of money.

[Ben McKenzie]

Good.

[Michael Kosta]

Hey, but what's to say, okay, there's criminals in this field, there's scammers, but people are going in knowingly. What's the big deal.

[Ben McKenzie]

They're not being treated properly under US Law. The cryptocurrency industry does not want the cryptos to be treated as investments. My buddy Dave, who's putting money into it, hoping to make money off of it through no work of own. That's. That's. That's literally the definition of investment under America. But the cryptocurrency industry doesn't want to be regulated like securities, like. Like investments, because, of course, securities laws are predicated on disclosure. You need to know who you're giving your money to and what they're doing with the money. Crypto doesn't want that. I think that's very, very telling. So, look, I am not arguing that people can't gamble on cryptocurrency. I am not saying it should be outlawed. I am simply asking for it to be regulated properly. And I'm also asking politely for the criminals to go to jail.

[Michael Kosta]

Right?

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Well, yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

And including. Including.

[Ben McKenzie]

Including perhaps our president, who has. Who has benefited. Who has benefited, he and his family, to the tune of billions of dollars in cryptocurrency. Sorry, real money via cryptocurrency in a year and a half.

[Michael Kosta]

Wow. And, you know, you bring up the celebrities, what did they get paid in for these endorsements?

[Ben McKenzie]

You'll never. You'll never guess.

[Michael Kosta]

Never guess.

[Ben McKenzie]

Yeah. They were paid in real dollars to convince you to take your real dollars and turn them into something else.

[Michael Kosta]

What? Why? Why what? You know, you brought up boredom, and I think about boredom a little bit, too, with crypto. And some of that stems from COVID possibly. We were sitting around. We were bored as hell. Whether you're making sourdough bread or sewing machines, bicycles, you know, we all didn't know what to do. But this was also a time that crypto really took off.

[Ben McKenzie]

Absolutely. You got a lot of young guys. So crypto's really a phenomenon amongst young guys.

[Michael Kosta]

Why is that?

[Ben McKenzie]

Young guys switching to gender now, Bill?

[Michael Kosta]

Well, let's do it.

[Ben McKenzie]

I was once a young guy. Our prefrontal cortex are not developed. No, I mean, I'm.

[Michael Kosta]

Okay.

[Ben McKenzie]

This is.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

It's science, you know?

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

And so young men have always had, let's say, a higher risk tolerance.

[Michael Kosta]

Sure.

[Ben McKenzie]

Smoking more, drinking more drinking and driving more, doing all sorts of stupid stuff. But right now, we're barraging them with ads telling them that not only should they. They should engage in this, but if they don't, I mean, to paraphrase Matt Damon's ad, what are you, a pussy?

[Michael Kosta]

Buy crypto.

[Ben McKenzie]

You know, so we're really, like, hammering them in a way that is. That is exploitative. And young men, and men in general are better marks than women because they have a sense of sort of like shame and pride. They don't like to. They don't like to. We don't like to talk about our feelings as much.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

And so it was really telling. I mean, in the movie, I interviewed many victims of a scam called Celsius. And it was one of the more

[Michael Kosta]

moving parts of the film because you literally, in such a kind way, talk to these men who just lost a shitload of money.

[Ben McKenzie]

And I asked them at the end of the movie, do you still believe in crypto?

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. That blew me away.

[Ben McKenzie]

And some of them. Well, all of them said yes.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

So, look, I say this with love when people. So the industry, the crypto industry doesn't give a shit about its customers.

[Guest/Additional Commentator]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

They're perfectly willing, otherwise they would regulate it properly. Right. So they're totally fine with these guys actually losing their money. They'll do a little performative, like, wah, wah, wah. So sorry, Dyor. Do your own research. It's your fault that you lost the money. That's the neatest trick of crypto. The cruelest trick is to turn the blame back on the mark themselves. But I genuinely do care about these guys and I genuinely want to protect them. And the industry is not protecting them.

[Michael Kosta]

I really, really appreciate you. If more people who are public figures speak out, it's helpful and mental. Are so shitty at connecting with other men. And when you get swindled for money, that's even a worse time to connect with another man. Because you're embarrassed, of course. So I just found that really powerful. What do you say to people who are still considering crypto or for the millions of Americans who are still in it?

[Ben McKenzie]

Sure. There's a movie playing in theaters.

[Michael Kosta]

I knew it. Okay. Besides see the movie. Besides see the movie. How should they approach this gamble?

[Ben McKenzie]

Let's call it that only 5 to 6% of the population is really, really into crypto. If you look at the polling, there's another about 10% that are sort of playing around with it. If you're part of the 84% of the country that has never with crypto, congratulations.

[Michael Kosta]

Right, well, even those numbers are helpful. Yeah, yeah, we are.

[Ben McKenzie]

The major made the movie for.

[Jordan Klepper]

For.

[Ben McKenzie]

For.

[Michael Kosta]

For you. Yeah.

[Ben McKenzie]

To tell you that it's not you.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

It's them.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

They're lying to you for money.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Ben McKenzie]

That's it.

[Michael Kosta]

It's a perfect name for the film. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Everyone Is Lying to you for Money is now playing in select theaters. Ben McKenzie we take a quick break right back after this. Thank you. Man Apprecia.

[State Farm Announcer]

I get so many headaches every month. It could be chronic migraine, 15 or more headache days a month, each lasting four hours or more.

[Botox Advertiser]

Botox Onobotulinum toxin a prevents headaches in adults with chronic migraine. It's not for Those who have 14 or fewer headache days a month. Prescription Botox is injected by your doctor. Effects of Botox may spread hours to weeks after injection causing serious symptoms. Alert your doctor right away as difficulty swallowing, speaking, breathing, eye problems or muscle weakness. Weakness can be signs of a life threatening condition. Patients with these conditions before injection are at highest risk. Side effects may include allergic reactions, neck and injection site pain, fatigue and headache. Allergic reactions can include rash, welts, asthma symptoms and dizziness. Don't receive Botox if there's a skin infection. Tell your doctor your medical history, muscle or nerve conditions including als, Lou Gehrig's disease, Myasthenia gravis or Lambert Eaton syndrome and medications including botulinum toxins as these may increase the risk of serious side effects.

[State Farm Announcer]

Why wait? Ask your doctor, visit botoxchronicmigraine.com or call 1-844botox to learn more.

[Lowe's Advertiser]

Lowes has the brand's pros trust to get the job done. You can now shop new Catalyst fencing solutions and save big when you do 10% off when you buy in bulk. Plus save $180 on a DeWalt 12 inch dual bevel sliding compound miter saw. Now just $449. Our best lineup is here at Lowe's, valid through 56 while supplies last selection varies by location.

[Michael Kosta]

Hey, that's our show for tonight. Now here it is, your moment of Zen. It's take your sons and daughters to work day. And so I want to welcome our very special guests who are here. Got a question there?

[Desi Lydic]

Why do voters view Democrats so poorly?

[Michael Kosta]

Did your dad give you that question? Explore more shows from the Daily Show Podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

[Ryan Reynolds]

Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same Premium Wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying. It's not just for celebrities so do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today. I'm told it's super easy to [e-mail]

[Desi Lydic]

Switch upfront payment of $45 for 3 month plan equivalent to $15 per month Required intro rate first 3 months price plan options available, taxes and fees extra. See full [e-mail] putting off replacing your

[Blinds.com Advertiser]

window treatments because you think it's complicated? At Blights.com, we spent 30 years proving it doesn't have to be. And right now our Spring Black Friday sale makes it easier than ever. Whether you want to DIY it or have a pro to handle everything from measure to install, we've got you free samples, real design experts and zero pressure. Just help when you need it. Shop up to 45% off site wide. Huge savings on door busters plus a free professional measure now during the blinds.com spring black Friday sale rules and restrictions apply.