Jon on Trump’s Epstein Meltdown, MAGA's Mutiny & Elmo’s Antisemitic Tweets | Kyla Scanlon

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition Episode: Jon on Trump’s Epstein Meltdown, MAGA's Mutiny & Elmo’s Antisemitic Tweets | Kyla Scanlon
Host/Author: Comedy Central
Release Date: July 15, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, host John Short Man navigates through a whirlwind of controversial topics, including Donald Trump's handling of the Epstein case, unrest within the MAGA movement, and a shocking incident involving Elmo's antisemitic tweets. The episode also features an insightful interview with economic commentator Kyla Scanlon, who delves into current economic policies and their societal impacts.

Elmo’s Antisemitic Tweets

[03:50] Kristen Bell introduces the segment by explaining that Elmo's social media account was hacked, leading to the posting of racist and antisemitic remarks.

[04:12] Kristen Bell: "The since deleted posts called for death to the Jewish community and criticism of President Trump. The hacker also demanded the release of the Epstein files and used inappropriate language to respond to other users."

[07:46] Elmo unexpectedly returns to the show, appearing disoriented and making incoherent statements.

[08:22] Elmo: "The Jews."

John Short Man attempts to address the situation, questioning the appropriateness of using cheerful B-roll footage of Elmo during such a serious discussion.

[09:23] Elmo: "It's true. Elmo wasn't hacked. It was Elmo. But Elmo was radicalized by the manosphere."

Elmo continues with a series of erratic and troubling statements, including references to QAnon and building homemade bombs, which John struggles to manage.

[10:32] Elmo: "Are you canceling Elmo? Once again, the so-called tolerant left policing speech that's inconvenient to their woke dogma."

The exchange escalates with Elmo making further antisemitic remarks, leading John to express his disappointment and concern over the character's transformation.

[12:21] Elmo: "Of course not, John. Elmo doesn't believe almost any of it. Although, I mean, it is kind of weird. They all stayed home on 9/11. Don't."

The segment concludes with John Short Man expressing his shock and disapproval of Elmo's behavior, highlighting the discrepancy between the beloved character and his current portrayal.

Trump’s Epstein Meltdown and MAGA’s Mutiny

Following the Elmo incident, the discussion shifts to Donald Trump's response to the Department of Justice's memo declaring the Epstein case closed.

[10:55] John Short Man: "Why would you have to change your pants to let us know who the pedophiles are?"

Trump criticizes the ongoing dialogue surrounding Jeffrey Epstein, questioning the continued focus on the case and diverting attention to other controversies.

[14:44] Kyla Scanlon provides an analysis of Trump's stance, emphasizing the administration's commitment to releasing the Epstein flight logs and associated information.

[16:20] Elmo: "You heard him, Jim. That's outrageous."

John delves into the frustration within the MAGA movement regarding the handling of the Epstein files, noting a shift in their usual unwavering support for Trump.

[17:54] John Short Man: "So problem solved, right? MAGA World?"

However, dissatisfaction grows as Trump’s attempts to placate his base fall short, leading to visible unrest and even protests within the MAGA community.

[22:03] Elmo: "Viva la revolution. Antifa forever."

Elmo's sudden shift to supporting the populist left adds another layer of complexity to the episode, juxtaposing the internal conflicts within political movements.

Economic Insights with Kyla Scanlon

Transitioning from political turmoil, John Short Man welcomes Kyla Scanlon, an economic commentator and author of In This Economy: How Money and Markets Really Work. Their discussion centers on the current economic landscape, focusing on government spending, austerity measures, and the impact on the general populace.

[29:22] Kyla Scanlon: "People. Like, the economy is made up of people. In the book, I say it's just people peopling around, which is true."

Kyla critiques the conventional economic policies that target social welfare programs like Medicare and Medicaid for budget cuts, arguing that such measures disproportionately affect the vulnerable sections of society.

[30:41] John Short Man: "Is austerity conventional wisdom when there's deficit spending?"

[30:46] Kyla Scanlon: "Yeah. So austerity is reducing the deficit by cutting spending or raising taxes. And so the common idea by cutting spending is that you'll go after the things that we spend a lot of money on, which is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security."

She emphasizes the need for a balanced approach that not only manages deficits through spending cuts but also invests in productive sectors like clean energy and infrastructure to foster long-term economic growth.

[32:50] Kyla Scanlon: "What if we built out high-speed rail or invested in stuff too. Exactly. I know, and so that's really counterproductive."

The conversation highlights the tension between supply-side and demand-side economic policies, advocating for increased investment in labor and infrastructure to stimulate growth rather than mere cutbacks.

[35:28] John Short Man: "So this is a political problem, not an economic problem."

Kyla concurs, noting that economic decisions are inherently political and that effective solutions require collaborative political will to implement demand-side strategies.

[36:38] Kyla Scanlon: "Robert Lawrence has a really interesting paper from 2015. It talks about how we can use capital to help out labor."

She introduces innovative economic ideas that bridge the gap between capital and labor, suggesting policies that empower workers and give them a greater stake in the economic system.

Conclusion

The episode concludes with a reflection on the need for informed economic policies and societal understanding, emphasizing the importance of transparency and trust in governmental institutions. John Short Man and Kyla Scanlon advocate for an economy that values human capital and fosters a symbiotic relationship between the government and private markets to ensure sustainable growth and equitable prosperity.

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Notable Quotes:

• Kristen Bell [03:50]: "The since deleted posts called for death to the Jewish community and criticism of President Trump."

• Elmo [08:22]: "The Jews."

• John Short Man [10:32]: "Are you canceling Elmo? Once again, the so-called tolerant left policing speech that's inconvenient to their woke dogma."

• Kyla Scanlon [30:41]: "Austerity is reducing the deficit by cutting spending or raising taxes... you'll go after the things that we spend a lot of money on, which is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security."

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Key Takeaways

• Elmo's Controversy: The episode highlights a disturbing turn for the character Elmo, who is portrayed making antisemitic and extremist remarks, raising questions about the influence of online communities and the impact of character hijacking.

• Trump and Epstein Case: Donald Trump's handling of the Epstein filing releases and his response to the Department of Justice's memo reflect ongoing tensions within his support base and broader political implications.

• Economic Policies: Kyla Scanlon provides a critical examination of current economic strategies, advocating for investment in human capital and infrastructure over traditional austerity measures that disproportionately affect the poor.

• Political vs. Economic Solutions: The discussion underscores the intertwined nature of political decisions and economic outcomes, suggesting that meaningful progress requires addressing both simultaneously.

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This comprehensive summary captures the essence of the episode, offering insights into political controversies, unexpected character developments, and thoughtful economic analysis for listeners seeking a deep understanding of the discussed topics.

Transcript

[Kristen Bell]

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[John Short Man]

We're really doing this, huh?

[Kristen Bell]

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[John Short Man]

Bye bye, Truckee.

[Kristen Bell]

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[John Short Man]

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[Kristen Bell]

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[John Short Man]

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[Elmo]

You're listening to Comedy Central from the.

[John Short Man]

Most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Shawn Stewart. Hi, everybody.

[Elmo]

Hey.

[John Short Man]

Welcome to the dance show. How about it? Johnny Got himself a new do, huh? Very nice. My name is John Short Man. Have we put together a great show for you tonight. Economic commentator Kyla Scanlon will be here later. She's going to be talking about which Labubu. I was told that's a real thing. A Labubu. Apparently it's like a Teletubby with fangs. Which one's the wisest investment? But first, let me be completely frank. We had a tremendous show planned for you. Well designed, articulate, tremendous deconstruction of the most interesting issues of the day. We prepared a whole piece on the new Trump tariffs, breaking down the different rates and their secondary impacts. A truly illuminating dive into the overlooked role of the commodities markets in trade deficit accounting. It was going to be so funny. But sadly, at the last minute, we had to scrap all that because Elmo lost his f mind.

[Kristen Bell]

Elmo is back to his usual family friendly content after a hacker posted racist and anti Semitic remarks to the Sesame street character's X account.

[John Short Man]

This is what happens when you go too long without tickling Elmo. I'm sure it wasn't terrible. It was Elmo. How bad could it be?

[Kristen Bell]

The since deleted posts called for death to the Jewish community and criticism of President Trump. The hacker also demanded the release of the Epstein files and used inappropriate language to respond to other users.

[John Short Man]

All caps. Elmo. By the way, to the news people, is that the only B roll of Elmo you have to play for the death to to Jews story? Look at Elmo in the B roll. He's dancing. Hey, everybody. Trump's a child, for God's sakes. You don't have any footage you could use of Elmo being appropriately sad or circumspect when talking about those posts? It's Elmo. Every week he's in a spiritual crisis. Here he is. Look, we found this. This is him. Find leaves fall off of trees.

[Elmo]

Oh, Elmo just found out about life's impermanence.

[John Short Man]

Couldn't you have used that for his death to choose stuff? Instead, he's out there. Death to choose. Death to choose. Anyway, these tweets were especially shocking to me as someone who has worked with Elmo. I've worked with Elmo, as everybody definitely remembers. Yeah, I hosted Elmo Palooza in, I'm gonna say, 1831. This picture makes me sad for a number of reasons. It does remind me, though, of a certain point in one's career where you haven't really established yourself yet. And. And so they really don't give a shit if your wardrobe fits. You're just kind of a guy that's there with a suit that's there. And if it fits, great. And if it needs to also fit Big Bird for the next sketch. Take it off. Stuart Snuffleupicus is up next. I mean, Jesus, did I take a dump in my pants? Look at this. You know, when the camera people are laughing at. That's not fair, Richie. That's not fair. The truth is, I'm being honest. Elmo at the time was great to work with. He was. Was there a ton of coke on set? Of course. But hateful, racist Elmo is not the Elmo that I remember. I know what's in Elmo's heart, and so I thought it would be appropriate to have my old friend back so that we could talk through this very Difficult time. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome my old friend, Elmo. Elmo.

[Elmo]

Hi everybody. Who's ready to learn about rainbows? Yay. Yay.

[John Short Man]

Elmo. You know what? We're here to talk about.

[Elmo]

The. The Jews.

[John Short Man]

That's right. We're talking about the Jews. Elmo, I think you had something that you wanted to say.

[Elmo]

Yes. Elmo was hacked. They hacked Elmo. They guessed Elmo's password was Elmo. Elmo. 1, 2, 3. Elmo knows passwords, should have more numbers. But Elmo only knows three numbers.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, what did we talk about? About taking responsibility.

[Elmo]

It's true. Elmo wasn't hacked. It was Elmo. But Elmo was radicalized by the manosphere. Elmo is part of the male loneliness epidemic. You see, what happened was Elmo was doing his own research on flu shots. Six hours later, because of the algorithm, Elmo was moderating the QAnon Discord chat and building homemade bombs.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, you need to take responsibility. Don't blame the algorithm. A lot of kids count on you for life lessons. And Elmo. Accountability is a big part of that.

[Elmo]

Are you canceling Elmo? Once again, the so called tolerant left policing speech that's inconvenient to their woke dogma. Who's the real puppet now, John? Who's the real puppet? Who's the real puppet now? You. You. You're the real puppet.

[John Short Man]

What? Elmo? That just sounds like alt right Talking point word salad.

[Elmo]

Yeah, you said it. Not Elmo. Elmo's alt right. No reason to cancel Elmo's funding then.

[John Short Man]

Oh my God. Is that what this is about? Elmo? You're pandering to the right so you can keep your government funding for public broadcasting.

[Elmo]

Elmo can't go back on the streets, John. You have no idea what it's like. Elmo's too pretty to live under a bridge, John. It's a life brought to you by the letter sucking. Okay, Elmo won't. Elmo won't go back. Elmo can't go back. No.

[John Short Man]

Well, I guess I'm glad you don't. I guess actually believe all that stuff you said about Jews.

[Elmo]

Of course not, John. Elmo doesn't believe almost any of it. Although, I mean, it is kind of weird. They all stayed home on 9 11. Don't.

[John Short Man]

Elmo. They didn't stay home. That is a myth. Elmo.

[Elmo]

Oh, O. Okay, Elmo. Sorry. Please don't let them cut Elmo's funding. You'll talk to them, won't you, Liebowitz?

[John Short Man]

All right. Okay. Elmo, everybody. Elmo. Wow. That was. That was. That was enlightening. I didn't expect any of that. Elmo shoots from the hip. You can't control him. I'll admit, the sucking thing threw me off, too. I thought that was weird. I thought that was weird. Now, the impetus for Elmo's rant seems to be the Department of Justice memo that has just been released that said the Epstein sex trafficking case was officially closed and that no new information would be forthcoming. And while Elmo is demanding that the files be released, Donald Trump's response is brought to you by the letters F U. You still talking about Jeffrey Epstein? This guy's been talked about for years. Are people still talking about this guy, this creep? That is unbelievable. Unbelievable. You guys ran on it. Remember this? We need to release the Epstein list. That is an important thing. This Epstein sex ring operation. I'm not letting it go. Ever. Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are. Why would you have to change your pants to let us know who the pedophiles are? And why wouldn't you be wearing pants while you're researching them? And that was before the Trump administration took power. And by the way, they were still hyping the Epstein files after they took power.

[Kyla Scanlon]

We have flight logs, we have information, names that will come out. President Trump has given a very strong.

[Kristen Bell]

Directive and that's going to be followed.

[John Short Man]

So people can expect actual movement on this. It's not just empty promises.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Oh, Donald Trump doesn't make empty promises.

[John Short Man]

Yeah, right. Two of his wives and 10,000 unpaid contractors disagree. But these are all. These are all people who work for Trump that set the expectation. And I think because of that, surprisingly, MAGA World, for the first time in memory, isn't just slavishly acquiescing to Trump's reality distortion field. Where did that whole case go? Where did all the files go? They just went nowhere. No one even believes that. This stinks. This just reeks. Something is horribly wrong here. Pam Bondi needs to be fired. Yes, Pam Bondi, the ringleader. She makes the decisions. The backlash wouldn't die, so Trump had to go back out and kill the backlash, perhaps even making it look like a suicide. So. So this weekend.

[Elmo]

You heard him, Jim. That's outrageous.

[John Short Man]

So this weekend, Trump tried to reason with his base using their shared love language. Long rambling truth social posts. In a social media post, the President asked his followers, what's going on with my boys? And in some cases, gals. Let me Stop you right there. Not to be all woke, but I believe they prefer the terms bros and hoes. But sorry, go on. You were explaining why it was time to move on from the Epstein case.

[Kristen Bell]

Why are we giving publicity to files written by Obama, crooked Hillary, Comey Brennan and the losers and criminals of the Biden admin who conned the world with the Russia, Russia, Russia hoax, 51 intelligence agents, the laptop from hell, and more.

[John Short Man]

So just to understand this, in a few months time we went from the Epstein files will expose the Democrats to the Epstein files were written by the Democrats and therefore can't be trusted. So let's move on. And then Trump brings up Hunter Biden's laptop as a reminder for all of us not to dwell on old conspiracy theories.

[Elmo]

What?

[John Short Man]

So problem solved, right? MAGA World? Well, let's test it scientifically. How many of you are satisfied you can clap? Satisfied with the results of the Epstein investigation? Clap. How many of you are not satisfied with the results of the investigation? Let me hear everyone who thinks sex trafficking should still be prosecuted say, hell yeah.

[Elmo]

Hell yeah.

[John Short Man]

Who wants to know more about a cabal of elite sex criminals? Just the ladies. So MAGA World is now in open revolt. You want to know how bad it's getting out there? They're literally burning their MAGA army uniforms. Yeah. And you know, there's just another guy standing next to him going, uh, you know, you gotta flip them. That's your problem. There is. You gotta flip them. But clearly telling your base to just forget about Epstein isn't working. But if you know Trump, he can always just pivot to the classic Trump distraction, Throw something outlandish out there and watch the dogs chase the squirrel. I'm going to invade Greenland. I'm going to bomb Iran. He's going to try something big. President Trump is reigniting his decades long feud with comedian Rosie o'.

[Elmo]

Donnell.

[John Short Man]

I think we're gonna need a bigger boat. That's not gonna be enough. The president taking to his social media platform to write. In part, I'm giving serious consideration to taking away her citizenship. She's a threat to humanity and should remain in the wonderful country of Ireland if they want her. Don't look at our inaction at prosecuting a sex trafficking ring to the rich and powerful. We must focus on the real issue, the denaturalization of the co star of Riding the Bus with My Sister. Yeah, MAGA is losing their shit right now. They cannot believe what they're seeing. Trump is lying, dismissing reasonable concerns as bad faith, whining, attacking Anyone who disagrees. Well, as a resident of blue America, can I just say right now to my red colleagues that my pronouns are how does and my ass taste. You like it? The Trump that you're just experiencing now, to your deep disappointment and dismay, is the dude we've been dealing with the whole you just didn't realize it cuz he's been nice to you. Like when you've had a terrible tragedy. My administration's doing everything in its power to help Texas. We gave them all the money, all the help that they can possibly use. We've given them max, we've maxed out and we'll continue to max out. Whatever you need. Daddy's here because you're the child he wanted. But we're Eric and this truly just a weird cheap shot. This is how we get treated. I don't think we should give California anything. I mean, if I give California money, then every state that didn't vote for me will think I'm their president too. That's not a precedent I want to set. Whether it's natural disasters or tariff carve outs or immigration enforcement or a million other issues, Trump's MAGA base always benefits from favorable treatment. Except now they're finally understanding what it's like to be the target of his hostility. This administration has weaponized vindictive.

[Elmo]

Viva. Viva la revolucian.

[John Short Man]

What's that? What's going on?

[Elmo]

Viva la revolution. Antifa forever.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, I thought you were alt right.

[Elmo]

Elmo was. But listening to your show and the trenchant analysis of the many hypocrisies of the right have re radicalized Elmo to the populist left. Free Luigi, free. Free Luigi, free. Oh, there's more. Death to Mr. Noodle.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, that is in no way what we're saying.

[Elmo]

Oh, dodging responsibility now you're just a comedian. Quit both sides in it. You corporate who.

[John Short Man]

Elmo. It's just, it's more nuanced than that. It's not black and white.

[Elmo]

Oh, that's right. Elmo doesn't understand Elmo's stupid. Elmo's worldview is Manichean in its simplicity. Good versus evil, Locke versus Hobbs. No shades of gray for Elm.

[John Short Man]

Elmo. Elmo. I'm not really o. Elmo. I mean he's shouting free Luigi over here and you're all like oh, opponent of Elmo, don't tweet.

[Elmo]

Shut up.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, I am not criticizing your worldview. This is merely an exploration of the motivations of Trump to not release the files and explaining to his base that the way they're feeling now is how blue America's been feeling the whole time.

[Elmo]

But. But we all know why Trump hasn't released the file. We all know who got to him.

[John Short Man]

Elmo, I don't think I want to hear the answer to any of this.

[Elmo]

John. John, no, no, no, no. Hear me out. John. No, no, it's not. I'm just asking questions. It's not what you think.

[John Short Man]

All right, Elmo, what was it?

[Elmo]

John? It was the Jews. No, I almost. No.

[John Short Man]

When we come back, Kyla Scanlon. Don't go away.

[Elmo]

No ammo. Joe.

[Kristen Bell]

On WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. Whether it's a voice call message or sending a password to WhatsApp, it's all just this. So whether you're sharing the streaming password in the family chat or trading those late night voice messages that could basically become a podcast, your personal messages stay between you, your friends and your family. No one else, not even us. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. This episode is brought to you by Stay Farm. Knowing you could be saving money for the things you really want, like that dream house or ride, is a great feeling. That's why the State Farm personal price plan can help you save when you choose to bundle home and auto bundling. Just another way to save with a personal price plan. Prices are based on rating plans that vary by state. Coverage options are selected by the customer. Availability, amount of discounts and savings and eligibility vary by state.

[John Short Man]

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[Kristen Bell]

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[John Short Man]

Hey everybody, welcome to the show. My guest tonight, she' economic commentator. She's the author of in this Economy How Money and Markets Really Work. Please welcome to the program. Kyla Scanlon. Welcome. First of all, first of all, I want to tell you how much I enjoyed the book in this Economy. It is, I really feel like it's one of the first books about the economy by like an economist type person where every Sentence didn't seem to end with the phrase obviously dumbass. Like, it's not condescending at all. It's just really. It's so clear and accessible.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah, thank you. That's the goal. I think we really underserved people with economics education, and we send people out into the world without understanding anything about economics. Like, it's not required in a lot of schools. And so the book is really meant to just help people understand these things that you have to know to exist in the modern world.

[John Short Man]

Yes. Yeah, that was a much better way of putting it than I put it, because it is in economics books, I find that they get so, you know, ultra focused on certain. The curve of the Philip and the thing. And this is just, here's what's in your economy. These are the ingredients. Here's how they work together. And it's not math. It's like probabilities. This may do this. It may also do this. There's a nuance to it.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah. I mean, it's people. Like, the economy is made up of people. In the book, I say it's just people peopling around, which is true. And so you have to. When you look at economics, you have to really consider how people act, and they're not always rational. And so it's important to incorporate that when you talk about it.

[John Short Man]

Did you find. Was the impetus for this when you were studying economics? And when you're in those areas, did you find that they were at a remove? Is that what drew you to grounding this more in actual people and the results? Because economists talk about things. They are. They're sitting in sort of windowless rooms going, I'll raise this rate and I'll lower that rate. And it's like a bunch of people then get foreclosed on you like, well, that didn't work. You know what I mean?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Like, yeah.

[John Short Man]

Is that what made you think of it that way?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Well, I've been inspired by so many economists, and I think with this book, I felt like there was a bit of a gap in the market. Like, the book has 60 illustrations. It's meant to be fun. There's a lot of metaphors, a lot of poetry. And so I just wanted to tie a thread to economics, to the rest of literature, to some elements of humanities, because it really is like the art of people. And so I wanted to try to.

[John Short Man]

Do that as you now look at the situation that we're in. So let's apply this. I want to talk to this new bill that's come out the beautiful bill. Oh, apparently it's quite lovely. I have heard it has alliteration, it's large, it makes really sophisticated and erudite news. People say big beautiful bill like they're ordering it friendly. He's like, I'll have a fribble. Like the thing that strikes me about this is whenever we talk about an economy being irresponsible in terms of spending, the go to fall guy for that, the go to scapegoat, are the poor. Is that the conventional wisdom in economics? You know, where our deficit is out of control? You know where we could take it out of Medicaid?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah.

[John Short Man]

Is that, is austerity conventional wisdom when there's deficit spending?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah. So austerity is reducing the deficit by cutting spending or raising taxes. And so the common idea by cutting spending is that you'll go after the things that we spend a lot of money on, which is Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security. And so that's the first thing that they went after. I don't think it's the smartest thing to go after, but it is a big part of what the government spends money on.

[John Short Man]

Right.

[Kyla Scanlon]

And so I think it was, you know, first to go, which is sad because you shouldn't go after people and you should think about raising taxes instead of cutting them.

[John Short Man]

So that's. So why is it so? When I look at the budget and I go, so the Defense Department got a raise. Now their budget's going to be a trillion dollars. We've created a brand new ICE unit, they get $150 billion. The Pentagon's never passed an audit. All I see is Senators and Republicans out on TV going, the big problem in this country is able bodied people who still get Medicaid. But none of them go out and go. Our big problem is we spend $500 billion a year on defense contractors and they can't pass an audit. Why is it that the go to then is people?

[Kyla Scanlon]

I mean, I think people are easier to cut from. Like there's a lot of lobbying that goes on with the Defense Department. There's a lot of companies that have big contracts. They're going to make sure that those contracts are insured and kept up to standard. And so it's much easier to go after things like Medicaid and Medicare because the everyday person can't really have a lobbyist, you know, oh dear God, fighting for them.

[John Short Man]

It really is like, like poor people need better lobbyists. Like, that's so, it's so horrible to think about. But I want to ask you like, so that's why they do it. Do they have a case? In other words, is austerity, as you look at it through when they've balanced budgets like that, Is that real? Is there another way that we could ostensibly do this? Is that still believing in the last, what is it, 40 or 50 years of supply side economics?

[Kyla Scanlon]

I mean, I think some elements of supply side economics are good, like investing in infrastructure, thinking about how we can expand the economy. Like if you think about the way that we grow, one way to manage debt is to cut spending, but the other thing is to invest in productive things. Like what if we built out high speed rail or invested in stuff too. Exactly. I know, and so that's really counterproductive. It's super counterproductive to cut clean energy and then try to build out AI data centers. Right. But that's the way I think out of the mess that we're in with the deficit is we have to invest in things that are truly productive.

[John Short Man]

As someone who is observing this from its component parts, when you saw the strategy that they were going to use, this is their economic plan, whether it be, you know, through fiscal policy. He wants the, the Fed to lower the interest rates so that they, you know, servicing the debt will be less expensive. Do you, what is it that you see in their bill that you go, that might be smart and what is it that you see in there? They go, man, we are going down the wrong road.

[Kyla Scanlon]

I'm really worried about the cuts to clean energy and I'm worried about the cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. You know, over 700 rural hospitals are going to have to close and there's no other office for people who are going to those rural hospitals. Like they're going to have to drive hours to go and find care. And so I think it's a bill that cuts taxes for the very wealthy of the population who will benefit massively from this bill and then puts a lot of the rest of the population at risk. And if you think about an economy that's growth forward, I don't think that's how you would design a bill.

[John Short Man]

Did you see a change? You know what changed for me economically is watching in 2008 when the economy fell apart and the government stepped in and they poured billions and billions of dollars into this supply side economy. They bailed out aig, they bailed out all those people, but they didn't do a demand size stimulus where they helped people whose houses were being foreclosed. And I don't know that we've Ever really recovered from that. But in the pandemic there were some demand stimuluses that seemed really effective. Why didn't that take in terms of economic theory, was it just inflation? Because every country had inflation. We even had it less.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah, I mean a lot of economic theory shows that demand side stimulus really helps during downturns. It's one of the best things to do is to help people out by giving them money, especially if they can't go to work like how it was during the pandemic.

[John Short Man]

Right.

[Kyla Scanlon]

And so I think it is something that people believe in, but it's, it's a tough sell politically. Like it's a tough narrative.

[John Short Man]

So this is a political problem, not an economic problem.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Most economic problems are political problems at the end of the day. Yeah, that's.

[John Short Man]

And, but they never say that.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Why would they?

[John Short Man]

No, Kyla, that's exactly right. What do they, what do they do with you in the meetings? Like, do you get to raise your hand and go, like, you know, guys, this is a political problem, not an economic. If we're gonna rebuild, so let's rebuild an economic model that maybe makes more sense because even the Democrats have bought into the supply side. Like even the ACA Obamacare is kind of a supply side. It's just subsidies and stimulus to insurance companies. How do we rebuild the theory of the economy on a. Can you rebuild it on a responsible demand side economic policy?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah, I mean, I think that there's a lot that we can do to invest in labor, to invest in jobs, to invest. Yeah, exactly.

[John Short Man]

That seems like the thing. It seems like over the last 50 years capital is king and labor is devalued. How do we rebalance that?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Well, so Robert Lawrence has a really interesting paper from 2015.

[John Short Man]

Read it.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah, I call it the Lawrence paper, but it's great. It talks about how we can use capital to help out labor. Like they don't have to be mutually exclusive. Like we can actually have money. Invest in the labor force, like invest in training opportunities, give labor a voice at the table. Invest in different employee stock option programs. Give people a stake in the system that they're participating in beyond just wages. And so I think that's going to have to be the next step for the economy is like how do we make labor have a central voice in the conversation? Because I think a lot of the discontent that people feel right now is they feel like they're not able to be a part of the conversation because capital has been so dominant.

[John Short Man]

And it seems like a political no brainer and I wonder why the Democrats have not been more forceful about. Because I think we've learned this idea that if the government intervenes on the economy, that's socialism, if they do it on behalf of people. But if they do it on behalf of corporations or subsidies or wealthy tax cuts, that's fair game because that's the free market. Maybe politically we need to understand that we don't have a free market. Would that work?

[Kyla Scanlon]

I think so. I mean, I don't know how that'll go over.

[John Short Man]

Would you join me in my crusade?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah.

[John Short Man]

Would you do the illustrations for this new. It's not about getting rid of capitalism. It's about.

[Kyla Scanlon]

No.

[John Short Man]

It's not government being the backstop to the necessary collateral damage that occurs from capitalist process. No.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah. I mean, I think people really undervalue the role of government, and I think a lot of people are. The government is inefficient and it's bloated in a lot of cases, but it's also created amazing things like roads and DARPA and got us into space. And it was because the government paired with private markets. Right. Like, everything has to exist in the sense of symbiosis with each other. And I think we've kind of forgotten that, like, everything exists in a vessel all by itself. And the more that we can connect the dots between private markets, between the government, the better off we'll be.

[John Short Man]

Is there anyone out there that you see that's talking like that? Like, Mamdani has gotten a lot of momentum here in New York, and immediately everybody's like, you're a socialist. Like, there is no in between for anybody. Has he been putting forth a message that it's a little different than what you're saying right now, but is that the type of thing that maybe can gain that momentum for labor?

[Kyla Scanlon]

I think what's really nice about Mamdani is he's thinking about things differently. Like, clearly there has to be some sort of ideas pushed forward that are different than what we're doing now. Just from purely a sentiment perspective. Like, people aren't feeling good, and how do we make them feel better by investing in them. I think one paper that I really liked or article from Kate Arnoff on Pool party Progressivism.

[John Short Man]

Yeah, I read that.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah.

[John Short Man]

I call it the Arnoff paper.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah. But she talks about, you know, how do we get people. People dignity in the labor force? So how do we invest in them? How do we make sure that they feel a part of the structure? And sometimes that's beyond just like, ev Tax credits. Like, we have to think about investing in a person. And I think Mamdani has come forward and said, listen, what we're doing now isn't working for the everyday person. Here's how we can think about making things more affordable. And ideally, both political parties would build on top of that and learn that that's a message that works.

[John Short Man]

I never understood why they consider seeded the idea of entitlements as though it's not investment. Human capital is the best camp. I mean, for God's sakes, our economy is 70%, you know, consumer spending. Why don't we think about not a social safety net, but a stronger floor? It's not entitlement, it's investment. If you get production out of that human capital, that's suffering, wouldn't that be a better use of it?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah.

[John Short Man]

Than subsidizing pharmaceutical companies that don't give us a break on drug prices?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Right. Yeah. Ideally, you would want technology and humans to coexist. You would want technology to be complementary.

[John Short Man]

I'll do it, but you better go talk to technology. I don't think that's. I don't think they're. I don't think technology is interested.

[Kyla Scanlon]

Well, and that's part of the problem, too, is that some elements of the tech universe are working against what, you know, you and I are talking about Peter Thiel.

[John Short Man]

Peter, the guy asked him, he said, should humans exist? And he's like, let me think about.

[Kyla Scanlon]

But Peter Thiel understands the system really well. I don't know if you ever saw that email that he sent to Mark Zuckerberg.

[John Short Man]

Yeah, I call it the Zuckerberg email.

[Kyla Scanlon]

But he said that people are going to become disenchanted with capitalism if they feel like they don't have a stake in the system. He said this in an email. Like, he gets it. He gets why people are upset. He gets that certain elements of the system aren't working. And I think for him, it's easier to replace the human race or something.

[John Short Man]

We've got two choices here. Invest in people and make them feel more relevant in the world as it exists, or get rid of them. And he's going transhumanism. All right, well, here's the final thing that I think maybe this might be helpful. And the way that you explain the economy in this book is what made me think of this. You've deconstructed it to its component parts. And it's something that I haven't seen done, like in the health care economy. Like, you can get a bill where it's $600 for an Advil, but it's never the ingredient list of why you don't really have a sense of where our money goes in this system. Would there be, is that a use for, like, AI to give the rest of us a better understanding of the component parts of what things cost so that we can see more clearly how labor needs to be better compensated? You can't call people essential workers and then throw them off Medicaid. Like that doesn't make any sense, right?

[Kyla Scanlon]

Yeah. I mean, trust is one of the most expensive things in the world and it's one of the scarcest things that we have right now. And I think the more information that you can give people about where their money is going and how it's being spent and their role in the economy, the more trust that they'll have in the institutions and that the institutions are properly serving them right now. It doesn't feel that way because nobody really knows what's going on at all. Right. And so I think the more that we can explain to people how things work, the easier it'll be to help move things forward rather than backwards.

[John Short Man]

And I think it's clear that we don't know purposefully that the obfuscation of how this system works is purposefully kept from us. The ingredient list that would allow us better insight into how we're being screwed is it's not happenstance. They do it on purpose. But you remain optimistic with the possibilities.

[Kyla Scanlon]

I mean, I think that's all you can do, is be optimistic. When you lose hope, what do you do?

[John Short Man]

You end up looking like this. Yeah, look what hope looks like. That's over there hope and now loss. I'm so pleased that you joined us on the show. I'm telling you, man, this is essential reading for anyone out there who wants to have a basic understanding of the economy that you're dealing with so that you can make better informed decisions on how you want the economy to be in the future. Kyla, thank you so much for being with us. I really appreciate it. I hope we get a chance to talk to you again soon.

[Kristen Bell]

This episode is brought to you by Greenlight. Get this, adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat, start prioritizing their financial education and future. Today with a risk free trial at greenlight.com Spotify greenlight.com Spotify the McDonald's snack wrap is back.

[John Short Man]

You brought it back. Ranch Snack wrap. Spicy snack wrap. You broke the Internet for a snack? Snack Wrap is back. This episode is brought to you by LifeLock. Between two factor authentication, strong passwords and a VPN, you try to be in control of how your info is protected. But many other places also have it and they might not be as careful. That's why Lifelock monitors hundreds of millions of data points a second for threats. If your identity is stolen, they'll fix it, guaranteed or your money back. Save up to 40% your first year. Visit lifelock.com podcast for 40% off terms applying hey, that's our show for tonight. But before we go, we're gonna check in with your host for the rest of the week, Jordan Klepper.

[Elmo]

Join her.

[John Short Man]

Jordan, what do you got this week? Oh, sorry, sorry, John. No, no Jordan here. It's me. Part bird, part plane, all Superman. Come on, Jordan. That's Jordan. You're gonna stick with Jordan. Jordan. Jordan sounds like some kind of jerk off news reporter. No, no, no, no, no. Once again, clearly I'm what brings you here, Superman. Oh, sorry, John. Sorry, John. No surprise, no Superman here. John, it's me, jerk off news reporter Jordan Kloeper. I will tell you, pretty cool that Superman swung on through there. I must have just missed him. You're still wearing the Superman Underoos, Jordan. You're still wearing the suit. You're excited about the movie. It's fine. Tell us what you thought about it. Lilo and Stitch. I loved it every second. The Superman movie. Jordan, there's a Superman movie? No way are Lilo and Stitch going to be in it, because I will see it 110%. Jordan Clapper, everybody. Here it is. U.S. president Donald Trump was booed by some of the fans. And then after presenting the trophy, some might feel as though he kind of outstayed his welcome on the stage, sticking around to make sure he was in all of the photos. I knew he was going to be here, but I didn't know it was going to be on the stand when we left the trophy. So I was a bit confused. Yeah. Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, this has been a Comedy Central podcast.