Jon Stewart on Musk's Black-Eyed Exit & Trump's Insane New Biden Conspiracy | Carole Cadwalladr

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition – Episode Summary

Title: Jon Stewart on Musk's Black-Eyed Exit & Trump's Insane New Biden Conspiracy | Carole Cadwalladr
Host: Jon Stewart
Guest: Carole Cadwalladr
Release Date: June 3, 2025

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1. Introduction

In this episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, Jon Stewart delves into the tumultuous exit of Elon Musk from a high-profile government position and explores a bizarre conspiracy theory propagated by former President Donald Trump concerning President Joe Biden. The episode features an in-depth interview with acclaimed investigative journalist Carole Cadwalladr, who sheds light on the growing influence of tech oligarchs and the pervasive issue of data hoarding.

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2. Elon Musk's Controversial Departure

Jon Stewart opens the discussion by highlighting Elon Musk's abrupt exit from his role within the Department of Government Efficiency. Musk's tenure lasted a mere four months, during which he was tasked with "moving fast and crushing the deep state." Stewart humorously remarks, “He went from tech titan given a mandate to move fast and crush the deep state to a guy who had a bad night in a Nashville bar. He can't remember. He's got that look like, has anyone seen my shoes? He's a little beaten down” (03:10).

The conversation takes a contentious turn as Stewart mocks a joint appearance by Musk and Trump, where Trump presents Musk with a symbolic golden key. “Enjoy your useless gi,” Stewart quips, emphasizing the superficiality of the gesture (05:49). He further criticizes the administration's policies, stating, “Trump is spending $200 billion more dollars than the previous administration did in this amount of time and creating a deficit exploding big, beautiful bill. That is the antithesis of everything Musk said he was trying to do” (12:35).

Adding fuel to the fire, reports emerge (as portrayed in the podcast) alleging Musk's alleged substance abuse during his tenure. Musk is depicted making absurd claims about President Biden, such as “President Trump is reposting false claims about former President Joe Biden, saying that Biden was executed in 2020” (22:25), which Stewart ridicules by asking, “How much ketamine are you on? A lot” (38:13).

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3. Expert Insight with Carole Cadwalladr

Jon Stewart brings in Carole Cadwalladr, an award-winning investigative journalist known for exposing the Cambridge Analytica scandal. Cadwalladr recounts her experience: “Cambridge Analytica did have that data, 87 million people's Facebook data taken without their consent” (26:32). She criticizes the lack of accountability, pointing out that “Mark Zuckerberg got away with it scot free. Nothing actually changed” (27:20).

a. The Rise of Tech Oligarchy and Data Hoarding

Cadwalladr elaborates on the dangers of big data, explaining how companies like Cambridge Analytica leveraged vast amounts of personal data to manipulate electoral outcomes. “[...] they would know everything about everybody and they would know how to provoke you, how to sort of touch every single person and how to manipulate us” (29:43).

b. Palantir and Government Surveillance

The discussion shifts to Palantir, a data analytics company owned by Peter Thiel. Cadwalladr warns, “Palantir... amassing these different pots of data. It's putting it into one massive database where it's merging them. It's applying AI now to this database” (31:53). She expresses concerns over the lack of regulation, stating, “There is no regulation” and compares the situation to authoritarian regimes, emphasizing the potential for a “techno-authoritarian surveillance state” (32:16).

c. Privacy Legislation and Comparisons with the EU

Addressing legislative gaps, Cadwalladr notes, “In the US, there is nothing to protect your data. You have no rights here. Whatsoever apart from in California now has a, has a bill” (32:43). She contrasts this with Europe, particularly Germany, which has a history of resisting authoritarian surveillance through stringent data protection laws.

d. The Perils of AI in Public Services

The conversation turns to the integration of AI in government services. Cadwalladr highlights the risks: “This is going to be faced. You know, millions of Americans are going to be facing” issues like automated denial of benefits without transparency or recourse (39:30). She criticizes AI systems for their fallibility, stating, “These questions... it's just easier, Carol. It is, but it's also just pretty dumb. It's just stupid. It gets things wrong” (37:50).

e. Combating the Tech Oligarchy

In a call to action, Cadwalladr urges listeners to challenge tech companies legally and avoid complacency: “Take it. Challenge these companies in the courts, media organizations. Stop doing crappy deals with these people” (40:24). She emphasizes the importance of protecting personal data and resisting the normalization of surveillance (41:17).

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4. Conclusion

Jon Stewart concludes the episode by commending Carole Cadwalladr for her relentless pursuit of truth and her courage in facing personal repercussions for her investigative work. He encourages listeners to support her initiatives, including her Substack newsletter, How to Survive the Oligarchy, and her nonprofit, The Citizens.

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Notable Quotes:

• Jon Stewart: “He went from tech titan given a mandate to move fast and crush the deep state to a guy who had a bad night in a Nashville bar.” (03:10)

• Carole Cadwalladr: “Cambridge Analytica did have that data, 87 million people's Facebook data taken without their consent.” (26:32)

• Jon Stewart: “This is the most tedious performance I've ever had to sit through.” (07:20)

• Carole Cadwalladr: “This is a system of control. This is what other authoritarian countries do.” (32:17)

• Jon Stewart: “These companies are now allied to your government.” (41:17)

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Additional Resources:

• Carol Cadwalladr’s Substack: How to Survive the Oligarchy
• Nonprofit Organization: The Citizens

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Final Thoughts

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition provides a critical examination of the intersection between technology, government surveillance, and the erosion of personal privacy. Through sharp wit and incisive interviews, Jon Stewart and Carole Cadwalladr illuminate the pressing issues surrounding data privacy and the unchecked power of tech conglomerates in shaping democratic processes.

Transcript

[Jon Stewart]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Michael Kosta]

This episode is brought to you by WhatsApp. Your personal messaging is also your personal space, completely private. That's why it's nice to know that on WhatsApp, no one can see or hear your personal messages. So the calls with your mom, chats about the latest work drama, late night voice messages and all those photos and videos of your dog, every personal message stays private because no one, not even WhatsApp can see or hear your personal messages. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. The NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed.

[Jon Stewart]

Down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw. We hope to see you back here. I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamets is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news. Right now, we look for a constant and from one era to the next, trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News Tomorrow News. I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC.

[Michael Kosta]

Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. And every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report, you're listening to Comedy Central from the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, John Stewart.

[Jon Stewart]

Hey, welcome to the Daily show, man. My name is Jon Stewart. We got a show for you tonight. Carol Cadwalader is going to be joining us. She's a journalist. She's going to discuss with us the tech broligarchy and how the entirety of mankind. Entirety. Will be enslaved by a handful of misanthropic data hoarders. Spoiler alert, we don't make it. Speaking of misanthropic data hoarders, Doge has finally rooted out one of America's least efficient government workers and marked him for dismissal.

[Michael Kosta]

Elon Musk is no longer a special government employee. Friday was the billionaire's last day in charge of the department of government efficiency.

[Jon Stewart]

He's leaving. He's leaving his job to make more family with his time. He a lot, I think or just has a mail Order sperm farm going. I don't know what he's doing. I'm actually, I'm starting to feel bad for this guy. He's. Look at him. He's been there four months. Look at, look at the poor best. It only took four months to go from this to this. Look at this guy. He went from tech titan given a mandate to move fast and crush the deep state to guy who had a bad night in Nashville bar. He can't remember. He's got that look like, has anyone seen my shoes? He's a little beaten down. He's got that look on his face that I imagine his employees normally have. Black eye, thousand yard stare. This dude has seen some shit. I'd like to know at least how that happened. Is your eye okay?

[Carol Cadwalader]

What happened to your eye?

[Jon Stewart]

I noticed there was a bruise there.

[Carol Cadwalader]

No, I was just watching around with.

[Jon Stewart]

Lelex and I said, go ahead, punch me in the face. And he did. So you're not gonna tell us what happened? Do you need a safe place to stay? Look, I believe sometimes do happen when you're roughhousing with your kids, but I'm also sure the one sentence no parent has ever uttered to their child is go ahead, punch me in. But you know, Elon spent $300 million of his own money to get Trump elected, irreparably damaged his personal brand and almost all of his businesses and is clearly suffering some kind of issue. But don't worry, Trump made sure that Elon got something in return. President Trump heaping praise on the tech titan, presenting him with a golden key. And I gave him a little special something we have here. Thank you. A very special that I give to very special people. I have given it to some, but it goes to very special people. And I thought I'd give it to Elon as a presentation from our country.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Thank you.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you, Elon. You couldn't just give them the cake. You had to make sure that everybody knows you give them to a lot of people. It's just not that special. You know, I got a bunch of these. I give them to special people. Who's the guy who brings me my Diet Cokes? I give him one for every Diet Coke. Anyway, enjoy your useless gi. There was no need for Trump and Elon to commemorate this epic fail, this embarrassing display of theater. Look at these guys pretending like this is some kind of celebratory, victorious send off for a job well done. Jesus. Look, even Lincoln is looking down. You see him? Look at Lincoln. Look at Lincoln. Even Lincoln is looking down Going, this is the most tedious performance I've ever had to sit through. This is. Even Lincoln can't take it. Somebody booth me. I don't like this. Too soon. Is that Lincoln? For God's sakes. With all this shit going on in the world, I was not expecting the audience to be like, poor Lincoln. Just wanted to see you play. Of course, Lincoln wasn't the only one seemingly disassociating in the Oval Office. Of course, there might have been an explanation for that behavior as well. The New York Times reports that Musk allegedly used drugs far more than previously known. Look, whether Elon was using drugs on the job or not, I have no idea. I do know one thing about the television industry, though, especially the news industry, and that is whatever unusual images we have of Elon's enthusiastic time in Washington D.C. those images will now be repurposed and given a slightly different meaning and context. Almost comically so. Inside Edition, do your worst.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Musk's departure comes as a jaw dropping.

[Elon Musk]

New York Times report claims he was taking a cocktail of drugs while on the campaign trail.

[Jon Stewart]

According to the Times expose, Musk's erratic.

[Elon Musk]

Behavior, including waving a chainsaw round and that notorious Nazi like stiff arm, can.

[Jon Stewart]

Be attributed to a daily mix of ketamine, ecstasy, psychedelic mushrooms and Adderall.

[Elon Musk]

They claim he traveled with a daily.

[Michael Kosta]

Medication box that holds 20 pills.

[Jon Stewart]

Why you want to do a brother dirty that why you gotta do that? Come on, Inside Edition. Inauguration party enthusiasm or reefer madness? And you might be saying, well, look, who amongst us hasn't unwound sometimes with a little mixture of ecstasy, mushrooms, Ketamine and Adderall. What could be the harm? He told people he was taking so much ketamine that it was affecting his bladder. He told people that this dude is a one man anti drug campaign. These are your pants. These are your pants on drugs. And I do, I do love the fact though that the detail is he's the one who told him he had a bladder problem. That means things were so bad he had to be like, oh, don't worry, it's nothing weird. It's just an overabundance of ketamine. Now obviously we on this program would have been delighted to offer an unedited forum for Elon to discuss his journey from hardworking efficiency expert to drug addled child star mugshot. But he chose to go in a different direction by sort of speaking to your theater loving parents. Favorite news program, CBS Sunday Morning. This is true. This was his final Trump administration exit interview. I noticed that all of your businesses involve a lot of components, a lot of parts. Do the tariffs and the trade wars affect any of this? You know, tariffs always affect things a little bit. How revealing. Any follow up wondering what your thought is on the ban on foreign students, the proposal? I mean, you were one of those kids, right?

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

I mean, I think we want to stick to, you know, the subject of.

[Michael Kosta]

The day, which is like spaceships as opposed to, you know, presidential policy.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, okay. I was told anything's good, but no.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, no.

[Jon Stewart]

Look what Trump has reduced this man to. He has broken this poor man. Just in an interview. Can't we just talk about spaceships? I was told we'd talk about. I was told we would both be wearing helmets and talking about just a simple boy with a set of Star wars sheets and pillows. And I really would just like to talk about speech. I mean, you can't blame him. This whole project was cutting money from the government, trying to find efficiencies and sneaking a Trojan horse in the back door and stealing all our data. But. But Trump is spending $200 billion more dollars than the previous administration did in this amount of time and creating a deficit exploding big, beautiful bill. That is the antithesis of everything Musk said he was trying to do. And now he's left softly complaining about it to a guy whose normal news segment is explaining to your grandparents how to download a PDF.

[Michael Kosta]

You know, I was like, disappointed to.

[Jon Stewart]

See the massive spending bill, frankly, which increases the budget deficit, not doesn't decrease it, and undermines the work that the Doge team is doing. I think a bill can be, can be, can be big or it can be beautiful, but I don't know if it could. My personal opinion. No, sir, we will not be body shaming legislation. I'm gonna tell you something, and I speak for all the legislation out there, that in this country a bill can be big and beautiful. I promised myself I wasn't going to do this. And brave. Holy shit. Here's my. By the way. So this actually is my favorite part of the whole interview. So Elon actually expressed some dissatisfaction with what was happening with the Trump administration. It was a turn of events that stunned the reporter on CBS Sunday Morning, who had no idea, apparently, that this was being recorded. Right after our interview, CBS News posted a clip of it to promote this very report. It was that part where Musk criticizes Trump's spending bill and his remarks became news. It went all the way up to the White House. Yeah, that's what news does. He's saying that like, so am I in trouble now? I thought we were just killing time until we got another Patti LuPone apologizes update. I don't like any of this, but let this be a lesson to Elon and anybody in Trump's orbit. Whatever your passion and political belief or whatever your ideology is, you will go from reaching for mind stars to dissolving in a puddle of your own urine and shame and starting a fight club with your kid just to be able to feel because Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump. Trump doesn't believe in what? Were you with him because of his commitment to rein in Big Tech? They use Big Tech to censor you. They use the deep state to spy on you. We have to make sure that we are protecting the American people's privacy and data rights. When I'm president, Big Tech will pay. Itunes will have to agree to your terms and conditions. When I'm president, traffic lights will have to click on boxes containing pictures of you capture that. So how's that libertarian paradise vision going for you now? The Trump administration is expanding its partnership with Palantir. The company is reportedly going to build a master list of personal information on Americans that could give President Donald Trump immense surveillance power. It's never a good sign when the phrase master list and surveillance power are coupled. No one's ever like, I've assembled a master list of puppies you can surveil for boops. But hey, how evil can Palantir be? You got pal writing the name there. Well, look, it's not like they're handing all of our data over to some crackpot CEO. Well, let's not judge a book by its cover.

[Michael Kosta]

The most effective way for social change.

[Jon Stewart]

Is humiliate your enemy and make them populate.

[Michael Kosta]

I don't think in win, lose, I think in domination.

[Jon Stewart]

I love the idea of getting a drone and having light fentanyl laced urine spraying on analysts who tried to screw us. Well, let's not judge a book by its insides. Well, I've always said if there's anyone in the country who should have access to all personal data, it's the guy who wants drug laced urine spraying drones. Although if he is serious about that, he's going to need a source for drug laced urine. I might know a guy. No, no, here's the thing. The reality is this. The reality of Trump is he turns even his most fervent and enthusiastic foot soldiers upside down. Take Dan Bongino and ex Secret Service agent, Fox News host and guy who looks like he starts fights at literally games even though he doesn't have a kid playing. He was very excited for the Trump era. Right now we're in charge. This is how shit gets done. Trump ain't around. We are going to hold every one of these people accountable. It is time for total personnel warfare. Fire 100 people on day one. Fire 100 more. Fire 1,000 more. Fire everyone. We're good at flipping the script on dipshit wild liberal commies. You know what's coming. What's coming? Does anybody know? Well, that last part is going to make for some good B roll for an Inside Edition story one day. Anyway, Trump made that guy deputy director of the FBI because of course. But look what his only three months on the job have done to him. I gave up everything for this. I mean, cash is there all day. We share, our offices are linked. He turns on the faucet, I hear it, he's there at, he gets in at like 6 o' clock in the morning. He doesn't leave till 7 at night, you know, I'm in there at 7:30 in the morning, you know, he uses the gym. I work out in my apartment. But I stare at these four walls all day in D.C. yeah, that's called a job. You have a job, that's what they are. You go in at a specific time, 6:37 around there to a specific room, mostly four walled, and you're there all day. It's work, it's a job. And yeah, there probably is a dude in there that you hear all day. He turns the water on, you hear, hey, look at that, he's chewing another sandwich. I hate this job. It's annoying. Yeah, it sucks. How do you not know that? For God's sake, you're on the right. Haven't you even read Dilbert for sake, work sucks. And how are you just finding about this now? How is having a job now suddenly destroying everything? But I stare at these four walls all day in D.C. you know, by myself, divorced from my wife. Not divorced, but I mean separated divorced. And it's hard. I mean, you know, we love each other and it's hard to be apart. I mean, it's just, it's hard. I don't like to separate it. I mean divorced, I'm not divorced obviously, but divorced but not separate. I'm separated together, but not of course alone. But I go, who knows? I mean some people, they leave for who? The guys come over, they come banging people. Who the knows what's happening? I don't know what's happening. Why can't she come to work? Why can't I just bring, can I bring my wife to work? Would that be okay? We all miss our wives.

[Michael Kosta]

What the.

[Jon Stewart]

The only one who's gonna come out of there unscathed is Press Secretary Caroline Levitt. Cuz I don't think she got any principles in there left to die.

[Elon Musk]

President Trump is truly the most transparent and accessible president in American history. We have truth on our side at this. I think everybody, the American public believe it's absurd for anyone to insinuate that this president is profiting off of the presidency. It's frankly ridiculous that anyone in this room would even suggest that President Trump is doing anything for his own benefit.

[Jon Stewart]

That's all he's doing. By the way, I think the more she lies, the bigger her cross gets. Is that possible? It's like some sort of weird Pinocchio cross. The president can't be bought. I'm not even upset with this lady because just rolling with the punches is clearly the only strategy for happiness when you're working for Trump. Trump's very open secret has always been he doesn't believe in or care about any policy issue at all. He wants attention. He wants his ego stroke and he wants money. He wants wads and wads of money. Remember his 90 deals in 90 days. He made them, but only for his family. Those are the only deals he made. Meanwhile, the world he said he was going to fix is burning like so many nuclear capable planes in Siberia. And don't bother trying to call him on it, cuz before you can, he's already moved on to pulling some new crazy thing out of his ass to distract us.

[Elon Musk]

President Trump is reposting false claims about former President Joe Biden, saying that Biden was executed in 2020.

[Jon Stewart]

Since then, clones, body doubles and robots.

[Elon Musk]

Took Biden's place as president.

[Jon Stewart]

You're saying that the Joe Biden who doesn't even know where he is is actually an incredibly advanced cloned robot. How much ketamine are you on? A lot. When we come back, Carol, Ken Walliner will be joining us. Don't go away.

[Elon Musk]

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[Michael Kosta]

This episode is brought to you by WhatsApp. You know, privacy isn't just a feature on WhatsApp. It's built into everything WhatsApp does. Your personal messaging is also your personal space, completely private. That's why it's nice to know that no one can see or hear your personal Messages, not even WhatsApp. So the calls with your mom, chats about the latest work, drama, late night voice messages and all those photos and videos of your dog. Every personal message and call stays private like they should between you, your friends and your family because no one, not even WhatsApp can see or hear your personal messages. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. The NBC Nightly News Legacy isn't handed.

[Elon Musk]

Down or NBC News.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Elon Musk]

We hope to see you back here.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamas is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look forward to constant and from one era to the next. Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News. I'm Tom Yamas.

[Michael Kosta]

A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News.

[Jon Stewart]

With Tom Yamas evenings on NBC. Hello. Welcome back to the Daily Show. So I want to tell you about my guest tonight. My guest tonight is an award winning investigative journalist who writes the substack newsletter how to survive the Broligarchy. Please welcome to the program. Carol Cadwalader. Thank you for joining us.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Very surreal.

[Jon Stewart]

It's very surreal. I want it introduce you to our audience who might be unfamiliar with your work. Carol was one of the first journalists that broke the Cambridge Analytica data story. This was many years ago, back when nobody was writing about it. And give us a little bit of just that backstory of what happened when you exposed what this group was and what happened to you.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Well, basically Facebook lied repeatedly.

[Elon Musk]

You'll be shocked.

[Carol Cadwalader]

They said no, this company, of course it didn't have our data. This is ridiculous. And then guess what? It turned out that this company, Cambridge Analytica, did have that data, 87 million people's Facebook data taken without their consent. And yeah, we broke that story, and it turned out it was grossly illegal. And Facebook got fined a record breaking $5 billion by the FTC, 100 million by the SEC. Hundreds of thousands of pounds in other countries around the world, and guess what? Nobody was ever held to account. So Mark Zuckerberg got away with it scot free. Nothing actually changed.

[Jon Stewart]

Nothing changed.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Nothing changed.

[Jon Stewart]

Actually, the one person who was put through the wringer during all of this.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yeah, yeah.

[Jon Stewart]

Was you.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Well, that's the thing I say, in all of this, we found there was gross law breaking at every level by Facebook, by Cambridge Analytica, by the Leave campaigns in Britain, by the Trump campaign. And, yeah, only one person got put on trial, and that was me.

[Jon Stewart]

Right, you were put on trial for discovering this very true thing, and they really tried to destroy you.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yeah. So. Well, it was a particular Brexiteer who came after me.

[Jon Stewart]

And the whole term Brexiteer makes it sound like Disney. I hate that. Yeah, I'm a Brexiteer. You're a Brexiteer. But they said you're not.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Thank God. I hope.

[Jon Stewart]

What, are you kidding me? I'm in America. We don't care what happens there. No, but it is so. But you were on the cusp of. Does that story now with Cambridge Analytica sort of siphoning the data from Facebook, weaponizing what would get people agitated and trying to influence those elections, does that almost seem quaint by today's standards?

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean, I think it's the blueprint in many ways for what we're seeing now, which is that it was the dream of big data, which is what could happen if you take millions of people's data, vast quantities of it. Because what they did, what Cambridge Analytica did, as well as getting access to all of these people's personal. And it wasn't just, you know, it's every post they'd ever put on Facebook, every post they'd ever liked, even their private messages. But they combined this with masses and masses of commercially available data. And then what they did is they brought these together to create algorithms which they then used to target people, was weaponized against them, to send them Facebook ads to sort of provoke them in a certain way. And that is, I think, in many ways now you can see, is the game plan of what we are seeing now, which is that there's a question about how effective Cambridge Analytica's methodology was. But the dream of it was this sort of big data surveillance engine in which they would know everything about everybody and they would know how to provoke you, how to sort of touch every single person and how to manipulate us.

[Jon Stewart]

Was the change of that? Because there is a sense, you think of that sort of in the capitalist sense or the consumerist sense. Like if I'll be talking to my wife about a certain something, and then the very next thing on Instagram is an advertisement for that very thing, and you think, oh, they've weaponized what we're interested in to get us to buy things. But this is a very different scenario in that they've weaponized it to defang democratic processes.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yeah. And more. I mean, I think what is happening now in America is absolutely. They are building a techno authoritarian surveillance state. We can see that happening in real time. This is huge amounts of data on every single person in America that can and will be used in opaque and unaccountable ways. And it is terrifying.

[Jon Stewart]

But on the plus side.

[Carol Cadwalader]

On the.

[Jon Stewart]

Plus side, so when you hear about that from Palantir, is that. Are you describing something generally, or are you describing exact? Like, Palantir is getting all of our data? I mean, that was what they announced.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Well, it's. Doge is the sort of tip of the spear here. Okay, this is. This is Elon Musk's unvetted operatives going into every government department, and they're going in to access the databases of those separate departments. And now what's happening is that this company, Palantir, owned by Peter Thiel, are very interesting. And did you see the adjective I picked there? I was like, which adjective shall I go for? We went for interesting. This company, owned by Peter Thiel, is now amassing these different pots of data. It's putting it into one massive database where it's merging them. It's applying AI now to this database.

[Jon Stewart]

And what is the AI's purpose? Is it to sift through the data to target you for messaging, or is it also to prevent you from accessing government programs?

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean, it can be used in so many different ways. And I think that's a difficult thing, which is hard for people to get their heads around. But this is a system of control. This is what other authoritarian countries do.

[Jon Stewart]

And there's no regulation on this, by the way.

[Carol Cadwalader]

There's no regulation. Basically, you had since we broke this scandal, it's 2018. The big story then. And, you know, one of the key things about it was you have no privacy legislation in the us There is nothing to protect your data. You have no rights here. Whatsoever apart from in California now has a, has a bill. So you had all of this time to do something about it and you didn't.

[Jon Stewart]

And that doesn't sound like us. Normally we're quite prompt with this type of. I'll go even further in the big beautiful bill. There is a segment of that that says for the next 10 years they are not allowed to legislate or regulate AI in any way, shape or form. It is prohibited by an act of Congress. If this goes through, what does that do to this? It gives them a 10 year head start on whatever it is they want to do with it.

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean it's just, it is the tech, you know, it's the technocratic dream. I mean this is what these tech bros want. They want to just build their beautiful eyes and do whatever they want in any way that they want so that they can get to Mars and colonize it. You know, great glorious goals. Such as.

[Jon Stewart]

But how does that, so how does any of this square with their so called libertarian principles? It's nonsense. If there is a centralized control of data run by an opaque algorithm that nobody understands but them. And when they want to make changes, grok for like a week, no matter what you asked, it was be like, do you know South African farmers that are white are being killed. Like they can do whatever they want. And is the idea we're supposed to just trust that it's in our best interest?

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean it's the literal opposite of libertarian. But then that's always the thing. You just have to. Whatever they say, you've just got to realize it's the, the exact opposite. So the idea that this is libertarian, which is a state controlled machinery to surveil and control every citizen in America, to deny them access to services, to make inferences about them, about anybody in the country, to label them domestic terrorists based upon, you know, what these different databases throw up. That is, it's authoritarian. It's authoritarian and it, you know, and it's also the pathway to fascism. That's, that is what it is.

[Jon Stewart]

And that's. Here's the other thing that really bothers me about it. So everything that we're doing to China, the tariffs and everything else is because they don't play fair. They steal our ip, they steal our. What is AI if not vacuuming up anything that is proprietary, not just about our work, but of our souls. Like it is sucking up everything that we are and using it for whatever they want to do. And what's our recourse to that?

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean it's just, it's based upon totally illegal behavior. It's just theft. It's that you have, you know, you have copyright laws are just property laws. You don't go into people's house and then just take their, you know, their furniture and their, you know, their stereo and then, you know, flog it on ebay and claim that it belongs to you and keep the profit. I mean, that is literally what they are doing. And I mean, this is the Silicon Valley model. This is the Silicon Valley model. And this is exactly what's now being transported into government, which is you break the law first, you see if you can get away with it. And generally you do.

[Jon Stewart]

And do you see, is it different in the eu? Did they have a sense of the peril of this and they're acting more robustly? Is this something that you see in the United States as the Wild West? Who is keeping an eye on this? And can we get our own AI to keep an eye on their AI?

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean, I think the point is in Europe, the dangers of this are much more recent and much more present. So, you know, the country, the one country in the world which does really understand this is Germany. You know, and it was. First it was Nazism and then it was communism. And both of those systems used technology to control and surveil people. And that's why there has been.

[Jon Stewart]

So how is this, if this is the Stasi or this is the KGB or this is the CIA. Look, this country is rife with examples of government, MK Ultra and FBI surveillance on Martin Luther King and John F. Kennedy and Robert Kennedy. You know, we are not unfamiliar with those kinds of police state activities. Is this of a different piece? Is it just that it's more opaque? Is it more efficient at doing it? Are we seeing something really different than we've seen?

[Carol Cadwalader]

We are seeing something really different. It's really, really systematic. What's happening there is already, we are all of us emitting, you know, hundreds of thousands of data points a day, a week, which are, you know, they're all being collected somewhere. And so the idea now that those can be brought together and merged in some vast database that is going to profile you, that is going to judge you, that is going to make assumptions.

[Jon Stewart]

About you and use for predictive purposes as well.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Used for. Because it's now we're laying generative AI on top of the.

[Elon Musk]

That.

[Carol Cadwalader]

I mean, you know how Chat GPT is. I mean, it's.

[Jon Stewart]

What are you saying? I do my own work. What are you saying that these questions I Just plugged into chat GPT. It's just easier, Carol.

[Carol Cadwalader]

It is, but it's also just pretty dumb. It's just stupid. It gets things wrong. It hallucinates, it makes up references. And that is that system which is going to be deciding whether you get Medicaid or not.

[Jon Stewart]

That boy, did you just nail, I think, such a crucial point there, beyond even the more sort of dystopian visions of where they're going to be taking this, is the practical application of a technology that is wildly fallible. That is something that, you know, they just put out the MAHA report and apparently there's seven studies in it that don't exist and nobody thought like, oh, we should probably check that.

[Carol Cadwalader]

And you know, you know, the whole thing of like trying to get through to customer services at any of these tech companies. If you've ever had, you know, your Facebook account hacked or your Twitter account, there's no, you can't get through to anybody. Now imagine that. That is you trying to get hold of your, whatever it is, your benefits or, you know, the services that you're.

[Jon Stewart]

Hiring, Social Security, any of those things.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Exactly. The computer has just said, no, you don't have got no idea why, what that's based on. And then how do you challenge that? How do you, what do you do? I mean, that is the reality that it's absolutely going to be faced. You know, millions of Americans are going.

[Jon Stewart]

To be facing, right, to try and contact. And it won't be anybody, it'll just be for this press one. But nobody will ever come on.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Exactly, exactly. And it's likely, you know, if you get turned down, like I say, you won't know why. But also, there's no saying that it's based on accurate information whatsoever and not.

[Jon Stewart]

Transparent in any way. By removing the people.

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yeah, it's a black box. It's just everything is going to go into some black box. It's going to get mixed up and it's gonna spit out answers.

[Jon Stewart]

So you've been looking at this for many years. You have faced a great deal of personal repercussion for doing this. You continue to push on it. Is there anything that you've seen within this move that makes you feel like we have the ability to in any way slow the inevitability of it?

[Carol Cadwalader]

Yes.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, Carol, Carol, I gotta tell you, and I'm gonna say this, I probably should have started there before everybody was on the ledge. What do you see?

[Carol Cadwalader]

Because they're just like all of these tech bros. They are selling absolute bullshit. Okay, the whole AI, the whole AI scam is a scam. And they're making out that it's inevitable, that we have to, you know, that they have to. We having to chuck millions upon millions of dollars at building better AI because the AI is otherwise going to kill us and it's going anyway and it's inevitable. It is not inevitable. It is based upon illegal behavior. Take it. Challenge these companies in the courts, media organizations. Stop doing crappy deals with these people.

[Jon Stewart]

You work with the Guardian, they just sold like an AI deal.

[Carol Cadwalader]

They just did a really crappy deal with OpenAI. Or as I say, you know, they married its rapist. Their rapist.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, this was the optimistic part of the show. This was the part of the show where you were going to bring us all back from the ledge. And look what you done. They're all crying again.

[Carol Cadwalader]

We can, we have power. We can stand up to these companies. We have to stand up to these companies. We don't pre. Obey. We don't make deals with OpenAI. We do try and stand, stand up for our, you know, defend our legal rights. We. This is law. Okay? And that's the one thing which the tech companies, these Silicon Valley platforms, you know, just can't tolerate. And that is, and that's always been their strategy, is that they, they subvert it and they get away with it. And they get away with it because they act fast. We don't realize till too late, and then it seems too late to try and do anything about it. So we can do stuff about it. And we can also is that, you know, we are giving our data to these companies. We have to really think about that. You know, Instagram is not your friend. You shouldn't. Don't post your kids photos on there. I mean, if there's one thing to take away from that is that these companies are now allied to your government, which is a. You know, I have to get out through the border in a couple of days time, so I'm slightly wary of what I say, but I mean, yeah, it's not in a good place.

[Jon Stewart]

I understand. The only way I would push back is just to say Instagram is actually my only friend. Carol, I just, I can't tell you how impressed I am with the work that you've done that you continue to do, the way that you continue to stand up for this, even when it has cost you such a great deal in your life. Be sure to check out Carol Stubstack. It's how to survive the burligarchy and her nonprofit called the Citizens. Is that correct?

[Carol Cadwalader]

That's correct.

[Jon Stewart]

The Citizens. Carol Kadwala.

[Elon Musk]

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[Michael Kosta]

This episode is brought to you by WhatsApp. You know, privacy isn't just a feature on WhatsApp. It's built into everything WhatsApp does. Your personal messaging is also your personal space. Completely private. That's why it's nice to know that no one can see or hear your personal Messages, not even WhatsApp. So the calls with your mom, chats about the latest work, drama, late night voice messages and all those photos and videos of your dog. Every personal message and call stays private like they should between you, your friends and your family. Because no one, not even WhatsApp can see or hear your personal messages. WhatsApp message privately with everyone. NBC Nightly News legacy isn't handed down or NBC News.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm Tom Brokaw.

[Elon Musk]

Hope to see you back.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamatz is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news right now. We look to forward for a constant and from one era to the next, Trust is the anchor for NBC Nightly News, I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC, everybody. That's our show for tonight. Before we go, we're going to check in with your host for the rest of the week, Mr. Michael Costa. Michael, what do you got for us this week? Michael?

[Michael Kosta]

Well, John, June is the start of Pride Month. So this week we'll be celebrating all the things that I'm proudest of. My hairline, my athletic frame, and my early pre order of the Nintendo Switch 2. There's just so much to be proud of. John.

[Jon Stewart]

So I understand this month, though, it's really more about like gay and lesbian pride, not just pride in general.

[Michael Kosta]

I see. Well, there was that one time I convinced a cop to tear up my speeding ticket. But I wouldn't say I'm proud of it.

[Jon Stewart]

We won't elaborate. Michael Kosta all this week. Here it is. Your moment is in.

[Michael Kosta]

There is a New York Times report today that accuses you of blurring the wedding between New York Times?

[Jon Stewart]

Is that the same publication that got a Pulitzer Prize for false reporting on the Russiagate? Is it the same organization?

[Michael Kosta]

I gotta check my Pulitzer Explore more shows from the Daily Show Podcast universe by searching the Daily Show Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount + Paramount podcasts American public University where service members like you can access high quality, affordable education built for your lifestyle. With online programs that fit around deployments, training and unpredictable schedules, APU makes it possible to earn your degree no matter where duty takes you. Their preferred military rate keeps tuition at just $250 per credit hour for undergraduate and master's tuition, and with 24. 7 mental health support plus career coaching and other services, APU is committed to your success during and after your service. Visit Apu Apus Edu Military to learn more. That's Apu Apus Edu Military Are you still quoting 30 year old movies? Have you said cool beans in the past 90 days? Do you think Discover isn't widely accepted? If this sounds like you, you're stuck in the past. Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide, and every time you make a purchase with your card, you automatically earn cash back. Welcome to the now it pays to Discover. Learn [e-mail] credit card based on the February 2024 Nielsen report it's summer time.

[Elon Musk]

To enjoy long days, lazy nights and great food. Because Uber Eats has deals all summer long. So when hunger strikes, don't sweat it. Delicious deals are just a tap away on Uber Eats. Enjoy all your favorite grocery items delivered straight to you. Get ice cream soda and snacks from your favorite stores like Wegmans and cvs and make the most of every moment. Now that sounds like a good summer order. Now on UberEats Terms apply. Product availability varies by region. SIAP for details this is an iHeart podcast.