Jon Stewart on Trump’s 3rd Term Plans & Signalgate Lack of Accountability | Oren Cass

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition – Episode Summary

Episode Title: Jon Stewart on Trump’s 3rd Term Plans & Signalgate Lack of Accountability | Oren Cass
Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts and Paramount Podcasts
Release Date: April 1, 2025

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Introduction

In this episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, host Jon Stewart delves into the controversial topics surrounding former President Donald Trump’s potential bid for a third term and the enigmatic "Signalgate" scandal, highlighting issues of accountability within the administration. The episode features economist Oren Cass, along with Michael Costa and J.D. Vance, who provide insight into the shifting landscape of conservative economic policies.

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Trump’s Third Term Ambitions

Jon Stewart opens the discussion by addressing recent statements from Donald Trump indicating his consideration of a third presidential term, a move that blatantly contravenes the Constitution's two-term limit for presidents.

[02:10] Donald Trump: "In some of his strongest comments yet, President Trump says he's considering his options to serve a third term in office, a breach of the Constitution's two-term limit for presidents."

Stewart humorously mocks the constitutional dilemma, likening it to trying to order an extra item from the Constitution's "menu."

[02:21] Jon Stewart: "What are you trying to order off menu from the Constitution... What do you got two terms here, but can I get it animal style?"

The conversation touches on Trump's strategic maneuvers, such as urging Vice President J.D. Vance to run and then cede power back, hinting at unconventional methods to maintain influence.

[02:43] Donald Trump: "...including possibly urging his Vice President, J.D. Vance to run and then cede power back to Trump."

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Signalgate: A Breach of Accountability

The episode transitions to the "Signalgate" scandal, where significant layoffs across various federal departments are discussed as a reflection of Trump's disregard for democratic norms and accountability.

[05:21] Jon Stewart: "More than 1300 workers now fired at the Department of Education... The IRS beginning to lay off more than 6,000 employees... The Social Security Administration will cut 7,000 jobs..."

Economist Oren Cass provides a satirical take on the administration's rationale, insinuating that veterans "shouldn't have been having affairs in the first place."

[05:53] Oren Cass: "In the administration's defense, those veterans shouldn't have been having affairs in the first place."

The discussion highlights the chaotic job cuts and the administration's opaque strategies, with Stewart mocking the justification methods used by officials to retain their positions.

[06:31] Oren Cass: "I'm sorry, that's empathy for Tesla workers, apparently."

[07:24] Oren Cass: "Job security that clearly doesn't come from the quality of your work, but the assiness of your kisses."

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Economic Policies and Tariffs

Oren Cass, as the episode progresses, introduces his latest work, "The New Conservatives," discussing the evolution of conservative economic thought away from strict laissez-faire principles toward more interventionist policies, especially concerning trade and tariffs.

[23:23] Oren Cass: "This is your old book."

[25:03] Michael Costa: "The new right is saying, actually there are some things we really want to see win and that that's what politics is."

Cass explains the need for proactive government involvement in addressing trade imbalances and protecting American industries from foreign competition, particularly from China.

[24:49] Oren Cass: "The reason we can't do sort of social engineering or social policy or redistribution of wealth is the government's not in the business of picking winners and losers. That is now off. The new right is saying, actually we do."

The conversation delves into the historical context of trade policies, referencing Ronald Reagan's trade war with Japan and the long-term impacts on American manufacturing.

[27:30] Michael Costa: "I don't think there are a lot of people in the American south today who would say boo. We, you know, we wish these automatic come. It was an enormous gain and the investments have led to much higher productivity over time."

Cass criticizes the current administration's implementation of tariffs as haphazard and lacking strategic foresight, raising concerns about the sustainability and effectiveness of such measures.

[33:00] Michael Costa: "I think that's a very fair concern. And ideally it would be done through legislation."

The discussion also touches on the bipartisan support for measures like the CHIPS Act, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach that combines broad tariffs with targeted industrial policies to revitalize American manufacturing without falling into protectionist pitfalls.

[34:17] Michael Costa: "The Chips act was bipartisan. I think there were maybe 17 senators. You know, J.D. Vance has been a supporter of the Chips Act."

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The New Conservative Movement

Cass articulates the emergence of a new conservative movement that seeks to balance free market principles with strategic government interventions to ensure fair trade practices and support for American workers.

[48:18] Oren Cass: "I have a book at home about Germany and their position as a global military power where we didn't have sway."

Michael Costa expands on this by highlighting the evolving Republican Party's openness to integrating labor movement concerns and advocating for policies that support working families without abandoning core conservative values.

[48:32] Michael Costa: "We're increasingly seeing working people coming into the Republican Party... ensuring that their conservative principles, but apply them somehow to use public policy and make things better."

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Concluding Remarks

The episode concludes with Stewart summarizing the critical points discussed, emphasizing the fragile state of American democracy under Trump’s potential third-term ambitions and the need for thoughtful economic policies that address both market efficiencies and societal welfare.

[51:57] Dennis Black: Advertisement snippet unrelated to the main content.

Stewart delivers a final satirical take on the economic uncertainties introduced by Trump's tariffs, urging listeners to diversify their investment portfolios as a humorous nod to the unpredictable policies discussed.

[53:15] Michael Costa: "John, you know these Trump tariffs could tank the market this week, which is why you and you all need to diversify, diversify your portfolios."

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Key Takeaways

1. Constitutional Crisis: Trump's consideration of a third presidential term poses significant challenges to democratic norms and constitutional integrity.

2. Signalgate Scandal: The episode satirizes the administration's arbitrary job cuts across federal departments, highlighting a lack of accountability and transparency.

3. Evolving Conservative Economics: Oren Cass introduces the concept of "The New Conservatives," advocating for a balanced approach that merges free market principles with strategic government interventions to protect American industries and workers.

4. Trade Policies and Tariffs: The discussion underscores the importance of fair trade practices and the need for comprehensive industrial policies to revitalize manufacturing without succumbing to protectionist excesses.

5. Party Realignment: There is a noticeable shift within the Republican Party towards embracing policies that support working families and integrate labor movement concerns, signaling a potential realignment of conservative ideologies.

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Notable Quotes

• Donald Trump [02:10]: "In some of his strongest comments yet, President Trump says he's considering his options to serve a third term in office, a breach of the Constitution's two-term limit for presidents."

• Jon Stewart [02:21]: "What are you trying to order off menu from the Constitution... What do you got two terms here, but can I get it animal style?"

• Oren Cass [05:53]: "In the administration's defense, those veterans shouldn't have been having affairs in the first place."

• Michael Costa [25:03]: "The new right is saying, actually there are some things we really want to see win and that that's what politics is."

• Jon Stewart [53:15]: "Michael, what do you got for us?"

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Conclusion

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition masterfully intertwines satirical humor with incisive political commentary, shedding light on the precarious state of American democracy and the evolving contours of conservative economic thought. Through the engaging dialogue between Jon Stewart and economist Oren Cass, listeners gain a nuanced understanding of the challenges and potential strategies pivotal to shaping the future of U.S. governance and economic policy.

Transcript

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[Jon Stewart]

You're listening to Comedy Central.

[Dennis Black]

From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central, It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Jon Stewart.

[Jon Stewart]

Hi, everybody. How are you? Nice to see everybody. My name is Jon Stewart. Welcome to the Daily Show. We got a great show for you tonight, ladies and gentlemen. You're going to be most pleased with this one. Our guest tonight, economist Oren Cass, is going to be here later to discuss tariffs. You're going to have a conservative economist bucking laissez faire. Just watch it. But first we're gonna check in with.

[Oren Cass]

Our good friend democracy.

[Jon Stewart]

Gonna give him the old turn your head and cough. How's democracy doing?

[Donald Trump]

In some of his strongest comments yet, President Trump says he's considering his options to serve a third term in office, A breach of the Constitution's two term limit for presidents.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm sorry, considering the option. What are you trying to order off menu from the Constitution. Oh, yeah, I see. You gotta, what do you got two terms here, but can I get it animal style? What are you gonna do a third term? How does that work exactly?

[Donald Trump]

In a phone call with NBC, Trump saying, quote, there are methods which you could do it, including possibly urging his Vice President, J.D. vance to run and, and then cede power back to Trump, the president saying that's one method, but that there are others too.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes, there are other methods.

[Oren Cass]

You Tried one a few years ago.

[Jon Stewart]

There are other methods for staying in power beyond when you are legally allowed to be there. Historically, some of them involve catapults. Although maybe Trump has something more creative in mind with the Vance thing. Have you guys heard of the movie Face Off? Yeah. So here's how it's gonna work. Trump will watch that movie as the military seizes power.

[Oren Cass]

Like, what the.

[Jon Stewart]

I'm sure. At which point Chuck Schumer will say.

[Oren Cass]

I will allow it.

[Jon Stewart]

Because in the third term, we think his popularity will.

[Oren Cass]

Go down to 30.

[Jon Stewart]

So aside from the President saying, I'm not leaving, is there any other image of the shambolic state of our democracy?

[Oren Cass]

Perhaps something that looks like what you.

[Jon Stewart]

Might get if you fed the destruction.

[Oren Cass]

Of democracy into an AI meme generator?

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, right.

[Oren Cass]

Elon Musk.

[Jon Stewart]

Okay, the richest and most fertile man in the world went to Wisconsin where he came out in a cheesehead hat before giving million dollar checks to voters in an effort to influence the Supreme Court race in Wisconsin. Hey, hey, you know what that's about? You know what that's about, Elon? Their culture is not your costume, Musk. Their do not appropriate their dairy chapeaus. You can really get a sense of the fraying of our democracy by tracing the arc of its symbolic headwear. It's still a tricorner, but it's not the same.

[Oren Cass]

Meanwhile, the process of streamlining our beautiful democracy continues apace. And a couple of months into Trump's second of his, let's say, four to.

[Jon Stewart]

Seven terms, he continues to live up to his vaunted apprentice catchphrase, you're fired.

[Michael Costa]

More than 1300 workers now fired at the Department of Education.

[Donald Trump]

The IRS beginning to lay off more than 6,000 employees.

[Jon Stewart]

The Social Security Administration will cut 7,000 jobs.

[Donald Trump]

The U.S. postal Service will trim its workforce by 10,000.

[Jon Stewart]

HHS will be dropping around 20,000 workers. The Department of Veterans.

[Michael Costa]

Veterans affairs looking to cut 80,000 jobs.

[Oren Cass]

In the administration's defense, those veterans shouldn't have been having affairs in the first place.

[Jon Stewart]

That's on them.

[Oren Cass]

And by the way, do we need a department for that?

[Jon Stewart]

The layoffs have been harsh, unpredictable, and needless to say, the mainstream media has been outraged.

[Michael Costa]

So what's the end game here? Killing American jobs?

[J.D. Vance]

They're risking hurting those.

[Jon Stewart]

Those hardworking Americans. That bothers me. You're playing with real people's money, real people's jobs, and real people's lives rooting for Americans to lose jobs.

[Oren Cass]

I'm sorry, that's empathy for Tesla workers, apparently.

[Jon Stewart]

Fox. Those are the Only hardworking Americans whose jobs matter. But the question is, with hundreds of thousands of civil servants being often haphazardly fired, is there any corner, no matter how small, of our current government, that is safe from Musk's chainsaw of efficiency? President Trump telling NBC News he has no plans to fire anyone following that.

[Michael Costa]

Controversial Signal group chat.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes. Veterans Affairs, Department of Education, usaid. You, you, you. Because all is right at the department of accidentally texting war stuff to reporters. But fear not, regular civil service government parasites. Perhaps this incident offers an opportunity for you all to get the kind of.

[Oren Cass]

Job security that clearly doesn't come from the quality of your work, but the assiness of your kisses.

[Jon Stewart]

So, for instance, this Friday, when you as a civil servant have to send in your mandatory email to Doge listing the five things you did that week.

[Oren Cass]

You can keep your job by following the same strategies that these careless snapchatters employed to keep their jobs.

[Jon Stewart]

Number one, don't write down, what did.

[Oren Cass]

I do this week? You know, I took my federal car and went to Hooters and cried there for seven hours.

[Jon Stewart]

No, you want to save your job?

[Oren Cass]

Point the same finger of blame that they did for their indiscretions.

[Donald Trump]

It's important to remember why this powerful action took place in the first place. Because of Joe Biden's incompetence.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

The complete opposite approach from the fecklessness of the Biden administration.

[Jon Stewart]

In contrast to Joe Biden did something.

[Michael Costa]

That the Biden administration did not do, did the job that Joe Biden wouldn't do. We take out people that the Biden team never could.

[Oren Cass]

You get it?

[Jon Stewart]

What did you do this week at work?

[Oren Cass]

Number one.

[Jon Stewart]

I repaired the damage done by Joe Biden. How could I be up now at my job considering how bad Joe Biden up before? It's not possible. You need to be in your job to repair his damage. You were at the Hooters because Joe Biden wouldn't or couldn't rage eat that many wings. All right, now you might be thinking, these Doge guys are slicker than that. They're not just gonna fall for blame.

[Oren Cass]

Biden. That's why we hired you. You're sharp. It's not your only move.

[Donald Trump]

If you want to talk about classified information, talk about what was at Hillary.

[Laura]

Clinton's home that she was trying to bleach. Bit.

[Jon Stewart]

Hillary Clinton's bit Bleaching.

[Oren Cass]

Who amongst us hasn't tried to bleach our own bits? I think obviously I'm referring to anuses.

[Jon Stewart]

So what are we talking about? Biden doesn't work. Throw a slash, he'll.

[Oren Cass]

Oh, all right.

[Jon Stewart]

Number one, that's where you fill in blame.

[Oren Cass]

Biden gets you 80% home.

[Jon Stewart]

Hillary drives you the rest of the way in the trunk of her car shouting Benghazi. All right, now, I know that's a bit of a big swing for your number one thing, because here's the problem. Neither Joe Biden nor Hillary probably work in your office. Which is why, for the number two thing, you're going to write to the.

[Oren Cass]

Doge folks, you're going to bring that finger pointing technique a little closer to home.

[Jon Stewart]

The Yemen text group chat.

[Oren Cass]

Understood? Rule number one of self preservation.

[Jon Stewart]

Me? No, it was that guy. Because remember, you don't have to be faster than the bear.

[Oren Cass]

You just have to be faster than your slowest coworker.

[Jon Stewart]

So, CIA Director Ratcliffe, who are you faster than?

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I've understood from media reports. The Secretary of Defense has said the information was not classified.

[Oren Cass]

Boom.

[Jon Stewart]

By the way, nothing like the Director.

[Oren Cass]

Of the CIA going, I read in the paper the Secretary of Defense was the guy to blame. I don't get reports.

[Jon Stewart]

I just read the New York Times.

[Oren Cass]

I have no idea.

[Jon Stewart]

He's blaming the Secretary of Defense. Secretary of Defense, Pete Hegseth, what do you say?

[Michael Costa]

I'm wondering if you feel as the leader of the Defense Department, you have any level of responsibility.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Thank you for the question. I'm responsible for ensuring that our department is prepared, ready to deter and defeat our enemies.

[Jon Stewart]

My biggest weakness. I'm glad you asked. I think it's that I rule too hard. I may be too awesome. Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard. Maybe you should have known if this was classified or who was on the text chain.

[Oren Cass]

I defer to the Secretary of Defense.

[Jon Stewart]

The National Security Council. Oh, the National Security Council has entered the chat. That's you, Mike Waltz. Do we have ourselves a blamed census? J.D.

[Oren Cass]

Vance.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

Members of the administration, including my dear friend Mike, have taken responsibility for it.

[Oren Cass]

That is the coldest my dear friend Mike I have ever heard.

[Jon Stewart]

Anyway, Brutus, you were saying about your dear friend Caesar, now President Trump. Do you want to join the pilot, Mike Waltz?

[J.D. Vance]

I guess he said he claimed responsibility. I would imagine had nothing to do with anyone else. It was Mike. I guess. I don't know. I was told it was Mike.

[Jon Stewart]

Why are you asking me? I'm just an innocent passerby. I didn't see the accident officer, but I got to tell you, it looks like classic Mike to me. Well, there you have it. Looks like the bottle stopped spitting. On Mike Waltz. Time for you to take responsibility and French kiss that Doge chainsaw. Unless you've obviously got a more plausible.

[Oren Cass]

Explanation for how a journalist ended up on your incredibly sensitive text chain.

[Dennis Black]

You know, Laura, I'm not a conspiracy theorist.

[Jon Stewart]

Normally that's a disqualifying position for this administration, but go on.

[Michael Costa]

But of all the people out there, somehow this guy who has lied about the President, and he's the one that somehow gets on somebody's contact and then.

[Dennis Black]

Gets sucked into this group.

[Jon Stewart]

It's not somebody's contact. It was your contact. And he wasn't sucked in by unseen gravitational forces. You added him to the chat. Which brings us to number two. Number two on your Doge list. What did you do this week? I did a ton of stuff. All of it was right until I was tricked by the lame stream media. Can I tell you something? It's very hard to write backwards. All right? That might save your job if you're a low level staffer, but what if you're the department head and Doge wants to know the five things that you did? How are you going to keep your job when it's your name on the bombs?

[Oren Cass]

Well, it's step three. Confidently and definitively admit nothing. Thank you all for coming.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

I've heard I was characterized. Nobody was texting war plans. And that's all I have to say about that. Nobody's texting war plans, Kazuh. I know exactly what I'm doing, exactly what we're directing. And that's all I have to say about it. I noticed this morning, out came something that doesn't look like war plans. And as a matter of fact, they even changed the title II attack plans because they know it's not war plans.

[Jon Stewart]

You get it? We didn't endanger troops in a war plan. We endangered them in an attack plan. Who's the ass on that? You know, he must be so upset that every time he lands, everywhere he goes, the reporters keep finding him. At every stop, he's probably like, shit. Did I mistakenly add you guys to my travel group? Chat number three. What did I do? I would tell you, but you're probably too stupid to understand, but it was awesome. I'm awesome. That's number three. So now, 1, 2, 3. We got two more to go, right?

[Oren Cass]

Four.

[Jon Stewart]

And five. 60% of your work week is done. We're past hump day and cruising the tgif and that sweet government cheese continues to roll in. Maybe by day four, it's time you.

[Oren Cass]

Stop justifying your actions. To Doge and start celebrating your actions.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

At the end of the day, what is most important is that the mission was a remarkable success.

[Donald Trump]

What we should be talking about is it was a very successful mission. The real story here is the overwhelming success of President Trump's decisive military action against Houthi terrorists.

[Tulsi Gabbard]

The last place I would want to be right now is a Houthi in Yemen.

[Oren Cass]

Not to be that grammar guy.

[Michael Costa]

But.

[Jon Stewart]

A Houthi is not a place you can't. But the point is, for number four on the list, if they're not buying one through three, what did you do this week at the Department of Agriculture? I bombed the shit out of the Houthis that. Now, obviously these strategies may lead to some of your superiors saying things like, so just bombing the Houthis stops the whole problem. Because I think we've been bombing Yemen for decades. Do we have a follow up plan to that? And will journalists be on that follow up chain, too? At which point, case we turn to.

[Oren Cass]

Number five, it's a Hail Mary. And President Trump has spoken about how important it is for this administration to own their mistakes.

[J.D. Vance]

We're bringing honor and integrity and accountability back throughout our government. We're going to bring transparency, accountability back to our government. You know the old statement, the buck stops here, right? Famous statement. Well, I can say the same thing. The buck stops here.

[Oren Cass]

Boom.

[Jon Stewart]

That old Harry Truman chestnut.

[Oren Cass]

This is President Trump living those accountability values. Here he is when he was first asked about the signal chat incident.

[J.D. Vance]

I know nothing about it. You're saying that they had what?

[Jon Stewart]

I'm sorry, there's a buck now.

[Oren Cass]

What say, I was just with you.

[Jon Stewart]

Accountability. And you people bought it. No, no, no, my friends, number five is what? That's the get out of jail free card. When all other justifications fail, you can never go wrong with your last list on your Doge Five things you did this week should always be. I have no idea what the you're talking about. Hold on, I think I'm getting a call. And Trump has deployed this strategy better than anyone.

[Oren Cass]

For instance, when asked if we're actually deporting, like, gay hairdressers with real Madrid tattoos instead of Venezuelan gang members, the president stood on that principle.

[J.D. Vance]

I don't know, you have to speak to the lawyers.

[Jon Stewart]

Or how about the Justice Department's bizarre decision to pause its case against Eric Adams if he promised to cooperate on immigration.

[J.D. Vance]

I know nothing about it.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, okay, but those are just his central policies. Surely the buck literally stops with Trump. With the launch of Trump's own Crypto coin.

[J.D. Vance]

I don't know much about it other than I launched it.

[Oren Cass]

I don't know much about it other.

[Jon Stewart]

Than I launched it. The President of the United States. I don't know much about it, except I launched it.

[Oren Cass]

Crypto coin.

[Jon Stewart]

Nuclear missiles. I don't know much about it. I just launched them. Hey, Mr. President, could you take this? Yeah, yeah. What should I do with it? Just launch it. You start to wonder, does the buck stop anywhere with this dude?

[J.D. Vance]

I don't know when it was signed because I didn't sign it. Other people handled it. I don't know. You'll have to ask them. I don't know what it is. No, I don't know what it is. I heard about it at the same time. Maybe you heard about it. I don't know anything about it. I don't know the situation. I know nothing about WikiLeaks.

[Jon Stewart]

It's not my thing.

[J.D. Vance]

I don't know her. I never met her. I have no idea who she is. No, I don't take responsibility at all. I had nothing to do with that.

[Jon Stewart]

January 6th. January 6th is like your whole brand. It'd be like the Hawk to a girl going, actually, I only do hand stuff. Now you're grossed out. So many things that Trump seemingly has no involvement in. Is it possible he's been severed? Is that what all the choreography and merriment is about now? Maybe you're saying, hey, the man's pushing 80. Maybe it's not a matter of trying to shirk responsibility. Maybe he legitimately cannot remember any of this shit.

[J.D. Vance]

I have a good memory and all that stuff. Like a great memory. I have a great memory, one of the great memories of all time.

[Jon Stewart]

Oh, well, then the only other thought here is that the I don't know, I don't remember is a cynical strategy to avoid the buck stopping anywhere near you and evading accountability at all cost.

[Oren Cass]

If only there was one clip that answered that question.

[Jon Stewart]

Definitively.

[J.D. Vance]

Did I say, I have a great memory or one of the best in the world?

[Jon Stewart]

One of the best in the world.

[Michael Costa]

Is what the reporter quoted you.

[Jon Stewart]

I mean, I don't remember that. When we come back. Or in cast, don't go away.

[Laura]

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[Jon Stewart]

Buddy Buddy Nadasha, I guess tonight he is the chief economist at American Compass, it's an economic policy think tank. He writes the newsletter Understanding America. He's the author of the forthcoming book the New Conservatives. Please welcome to the program. Oren Cass. Sir, thanks for joining me. I got markers all over the place showing them around. Thank you for joining us.

[Michael Costa]

Thank you for having me.

[Jon Stewart]

I wanted to have you on.

[Oren Cass]

I want to tell you I really do enjoy your writing. I follow the I don't know what they're called now. Substack blog. Substack, Substack. And I read your books. I always find them I don't necessarily maybe agree with all of it, but I always find it really interesting in really good faith. This is this idea of the new right on the economy. Can you explain what's the deviation from previous orthodoxy and sort of what that entails?

[Michael Costa]

Sure. I think the best way to understand it is that, you know, we went through a period of 30 or 40 years where conservatives just had way too much faith in markets. Just trust that you get out of the way and you're going to get great outcomes. And markets can give you great outcomes, but they don't guarantee great outcomes. And so conservatives have been seeing, especially over the last decade, a lot of the things we care about, things everybody cares about. Do jobs pay enough to support a family? Are we too dependent on China for everything? Can we make computer chips in this country? Markets were perfectly happy to give us really bad answers on those questions. And so conservatives are starting to say, well, wait a minute, we actually have to care about this and we have to be prepared to do something about it.

[Oren Cass]

Now when you say this at the meeting with the other conservative economists, do.

[Jon Stewart]

They go, leave us? Like it really seems like that is fundamental heresy on, you know, I've listened for years.

[Oren Cass]

The reason we can't do sort of social engineering or social policy or redistribution of wealth is the government's not in the business of picking winners and losers. That is now off. The new right is saying, actually we do.

[Michael Costa]

Yeah, I think that's right. The new right is saying, actually there are some things we really want to see win and that that's what politics is. What, what would politics be if you just pretended you sort of didn't care about anything? You'd sort of have a lot of the very uninspiring Republican politics of the last few decades. I would say.

[Jon Stewart]

Now, you started, though, you worked with Mitt Romney, who was considered the avatar of that. Was he open to this idea?

[Oren Cass]

Where did it start to find traction for you that a more activist government, this sort of idea of economic policy as kind of social engineering, when did it start to gain traction?

[Michael Costa]

I mean, Parmeet actually started working with then Governor Romney. Like you said, he was conventional in a lot of ways. One of the issues I was responsible for with him was trade policy. And we brought him the very typical here's what Republicans say about trade briefing. And he said, well, that's fine, but what are we going to do about China? And to your point, about all the other conservative economists in the room, they were, what are you talking about? We don't do anything about China. If China wants to send us cheap stuff, we say thank you very much in the meeting.

[Oren Cass]

What does it sound like when the monocles fall out of the eyes? Does it clink?

[Jon Stewart]

It just feels like one of those.

[Michael Costa]

Like there was the Grey Poupon. The gasps can be disturbing.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[Michael Costa]

To your point, there's a lot of religious fervor, frankly, on what I would call the old right about some of these ideas. And when someone says something very common sense, like, well, wait a minute, maybe an authoritarian communist government that's trying to hollow out American manufacturing, maybe that's not really free market.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

I was saying, I was like, wow, that's a really important point. And I was doing a sign to sign go off and, and try to figure it out. And what I discovered was that on the right of center, really going back to the mid-1980s, there had just been no thinking about this. There had been a protecting that, that.

[Oren Cass]

Manufacturing base or our industrial center. And then I think in Covid you saw everyone kind of paused and went, oh, we don't have supply lines to make paper masks. Like we don't have anything. Was that where you saw it really get a foothold?

[Michael Costa]

I think, you know, I think on the right of center it was the China problem was active Even before COVID Right. Because I think you know one thing, and it's important to say this is a fairly recent conservative phenomenon. If you go back in the history of conservatism, even if you look at Ronald Reagan himself, Reagan was a trade protectionist. He basically started a trade war with Japan because he did care about these things.

[Oren Cass]

This was in the days of Japanese carmakers were making cars that were cheaper, people were preferring them, they were dominating the market in America.

[Michael Costa]

And Reagan negotiated an outright quota that Japan, not even a tariff. Japan will not increase the number of cars it sends into America. And that's why we now have the American auto industry in the South. Honda and Toyota make American cars essentially because somebody like Reagan was willing to recognize trade is good if it's fair and balanced.

[Oren Cass]

But I've read, though mixed things about whether or not that five years later, it actually gave too much leverage to these Japanese countries. And they got to drive very hard bargains for American labor. In the south, for instance, they didn't build them in Michigan. They didn't build them where union labor was. They built them. They undercut union labor in some respects.

[Michael Costa]

They did choose to go to states with non union labor.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

The way that the unions were behaving at the time was one of the reasons that US Automakers were falling behind. That that level of inflexibility was a real challenge. And that's also something that you saw Reagan really take on and confront. So, you know, I don't think there are a lot of people in the American south today who would say boo. We, you know, we wish these automatic come. It was an enormous gain and the investments have led to much higher productivity over time. So I think that's the story of what we want to see more of.

[Oren Cass]

And bringing that back and giving the country a resilience that losing that base actually cost us. And this brings us to Liberation day, which is April 2. April 2, April 2, market down, Liberation Day. The Trump tariffs, we don't know what they are.

[Jon Stewart]

But we know they'll work and that we will live on Mars.

[Oren Cass]

In what, eight weeks? I don't know what's gonna happen.

[Jon Stewart]

Do you know what's going to happen on Liberation Day?

[Michael Costa]

I don't know what's gonna happen. And I think that there has rightly been at this point a lot of criticism that the way that the Trump administration has been rolling a lot of this out is just leaving too many questions, that if you wanna do this right, you need certainty and predictability, clear communication, all core values of The Trump administration. Fair, Fair point. One of the interesting things about the Trump administration is that the team he has around him this time on the economic side, so Secretary of State Rubio, Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessant, his chief economic adviser, the US Trade representative, he's really surrounded himself, I think, with a quite strong team that thinks consistently about this. And so, you know, that's something that.

[Jon Stewart]

Does he ever, like, ask them or.

[Michael Costa]

That is a fair question. And that's what I think everybody's waiting to see is can we sort of get this moving in the right direction? Because it is important to say that the direction is important here, really. For 25 years, going back to when we let China into the wto, we have pursued this model that says more free trade, always, regardless of what happens to American workers, regardless of what happens to American industry. We just want the cheap stuff. And that has been really damaging.

[Oren Cass]

You know, in some respects, though, we regard, I think we're putting a certain motive on China when in fact, like, these were corporations seeking the lowest water of wages and what they could pay people. And certainly labor can't travel the way that capital does. So, you know, I guess the idea is we levy these tariffs and then these corporations that had been seeking this will all go, oh, okay, it's not worth our while anymore, and they'll reinvest in the States. Is that kind of the broad theory of it?

[Michael Costa]

Yes. The idea is that corporations are going to respond to incentives. And you go, you know, all the way back to Adam Smith and the wealth of nations and the idea of capitalism. You want people pursuing profit to do that in a way that is also good for the society. Where I think a lot of economists, and this is left and right of center, got it wrong, was to think that's just always the case. As long as they're pursuing profit, it's going to be good.

[Oren Cass]

Right?

[Michael Costa]

And it's only going to be good if it's within certain constraints, if the things that are most profitable actually are things that are good for the country.

[Oren Cass]

And the government decides sort of what those constraints are, so they put guardrails around them. I guess the question I have is tariffs feel somewhat, I don't want to say whimsical in the sense of, oh, he, you know, dances downstairs in a.

[Jon Stewart]

Tutu and says, 25% on whiskey, like.

[Oren Cass]

But they are executive actions. And if you're a business making a. I assume their plans are 5 year, 10 year, 20 year, if they could just be repealed by the next guy. And it's not legislation. Is that really an effective incentive for bringing back all that manufacturing?

[Michael Costa]

I think that's a very fair concern. And ideally it would be done through legislation. I think one of the things that's very encouraging is to see that we are increasingly now seeing a new bipartisan consensus that we do want to change.

[Oren Cass]

I'm sorry, I don't know that phrase.

[Jon Stewart]

What was that?

[Michael Costa]

It started when President Joe Biden essentially kept all of Trump's trade actions. Everything that Trump did on China, Biden kept and then even extended.

[Oren Cass]

But wouldn't like the CHIPS Act, Right. Wouldn't that be another way of incentivizing without setting up barriers that might be more unpredictable or might be flimsier depending on the whim of an executive? Why don't they embrace that in the same way? Doesn't that add to getting the outcome you want? Incentivizing, bringing those, those jobs back? Why is that unpopular on the right?

[Michael Costa]

Well, it's only unpopular with some on the right. And I think it goes to where we started, which is this historical concern with the idea of sort of picking winners and losers at all.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

And a lot of concern that, you know, what's going to happen if government actually gets involved in giving particular benefits to particular companies. That being said, the Chips act was bipartisan. I think there were maybe 17 senators. You know, J.D. vance has been a supporter of the Chips Act.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

And so, you know, I think again, that's, that's a step in the right direction.

[Oren Cass]

Would you rather see it through that kind of industrial policy or through. Or is it a real balancing of all those various levers?

[Michael Costa]

I think you have to do both because if you only do the CHIPS act kind of thing.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

CHIPS act is great if you've got one thing that's really important. Almost everyone agrees, you know, steel and.

[Oren Cass]

You know, so well.

[Michael Costa]

So this becomes question now, right. Do you really want Congress now going through and saying, oh, well, now we need one for steel? Well, do we need. Do we need one for aluminum? Maybe. Well, do we need one for cars? Do we need one for airplanes? That's both cumbersome and something that's very difficult to do well politically. Whereas one of what I think actually the benefits of tariffs is that they are quite blunt.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

The tariff is sort of, if done well, a much broader policy that sort of shifts the baseline. And so I think you need that if you want to shift, shift the basic decision making that the businesses are going to make generally. And then there's particular things you really care about that's when you also want to come in and give them support.

[Oren Cass]

Would it then did it surprise you? Because we talk about China as being sort of this ascendant economic power. And by the way, it's not just the manufacturing base of America that has been hurt by that. All the countries near China can't compete. You know, all around there, Indonesia, you know, they're struggling with a very similar thing. But then why go after Canada?

[Jon Stewart]

Like, what do you know what I mean? Like, it just. It all seems so weirdly vindictive.

[Oren Cass]

And then you're like, and then we're going to take over Greenland.

[Jon Stewart]

Like, it does feel a little less.

[Oren Cass]

Like rebalancing economic inequities. And we've decided on a new World Order where big does what it wants and nation states. We go back to a little bit of that colonialist model or imperialist or whatever it was.

[Jon Stewart]

Is that the concern?

[Michael Costa]

I guess it's a fair concern. I think there's some truth to it. That's not all bad. When you talk about this new World order idea, which is that the United States has been sort of championing this liberal world order.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

Where we have essentially taken it upon ourselves to frankly absorb a lot of costs from other people. Right. So in the trade world, it's not just China. It's also Germany and Japan and Korea. We are absorbing their production. They get the jobs.

[Oren Cass]

But don't you think we're buying influence? I would say so. The Trump view is they're abusing us and using us. I think the view I have is America wants to tell them what to do. And so by leveraging our military might, we have sway.

[Michael Costa]

But do we? What have we successfully told Japan or Germany to do?

[Oren Cass]

I mean, in general.

[Michael Costa]

Yeah. In the last three years?

[Jon Stewart]

Stop wearing lederhosen.

[Oren Cass]

I think they've cut down on it.

[Michael Costa]

No, no, no, no. This is a serious point. I appreciate the joke, but.

[Jon Stewart]

I guess my point.

[Michael Costa]

But there's a reason you. You couldn't answer the question. And this is.

[Jon Stewart]

Well, I don't know what we'd want.

[Oren Cass]

Them to do because I feel like.

[Michael Costa]

Well, if we don't want them to do anything, then what are we maintaining the leverage for?

[Oren Cass]

Because, well, the leverage is on when we want to go into Iraq. I guess what I'm saying is what.

[Jon Stewart]

We want them to do.

[Michael Costa]

That was great.

[Jon Stewart]

Listen, I'm not saying it was right.

[Oren Cass]

But you have a guy like J.D. vance goes to Greenland and shits on Denmark. Like, Denmark lost as many people per capita in those wars as we did. Like they talk about, you know, Denmark's not defending Greenland enough. Like, and we'll do it. But aren't we doing it already? Like they're in NATO.

[Jon Stewart]

So I guess my point is like.

[Oren Cass]

That stable world order hasn't mistreated the United States. I guess I don't see us as victims of a con game that Europe has been running on us. And like, the idea that we want Germany to be able to fend off Russia on their own places us in very tenuous position, does it not?

[Michael Costa]

Why?

[Oren Cass]

I have a book at home about Germany and their position as a global military power where we didn't have sway.

[Michael Costa]

Right.

[Oren Cass]

And they did what they wanted and it didn't work out.

[Michael Costa]

Frankly, I don't put a lot of credence.

[Jon Stewart]

I don't. And by the way, it's also in.

[Michael Costa]

No, no, no. I want to pick up on this.

[Oren Cass]

20% of the Oscar winning movies the.

[Michael Costa]

Fun applause line that like, oh, the Germans will just become Nazis again, like that's a weird racist critique of Germans. I don't see any reason to believe that.

[Laura]

Let's be honest.

[Michael Costa]

It is. Let's look at the actual German state. On what basis are you saying this is like something about Germany that we can't.

[Oren Cass]

I think it's that there is an element within their society that they've deemed. This is not me saying Germans will do that. This is Germany. This is. I didn't say they'll become that. The leaders of Germany are fearful that they had this.

[Michael Costa]

I don't think they are. I think leaders of Germany really enjoy spending virtually nothing on their military, while the United states spends roughly 4% of GDP on ours as we have been doing for decades with other countries in NATO.

[Jon Stewart]

Not even really.

[Oren Cass]

You think they're like freeloading on our military?

[Michael Costa]

There's no question they're freeloading on our military. You can say you, you like that they're freeloading on our military. But. But I don't think there's any dispute that that's what they're doing.

[Oren Cass]

I guess I don't understand the idea that they're freeloading and we want each nation state to build up their military to the point because to me that makes it more likely. If you build something like that, it's more likely you'll use it. Now that seems to be backed by general history. When people rearm, they tend to do it and use it. But I think the idea that Europe needs to like, I guess what I'm saying is this is a fine adjustment that's being made with a sledgehammer, if that makes sense.

[Michael Costa]

I think that's a very fair point. I think where we started on.

[Jon Stewart]

I was dying.

[Michael Costa]

I will concede that one to you. Just to.

[Jon Stewart]

Yes.

[Michael Costa]

My five year old gets one point of ping pong every. Yes.

[Jon Stewart]

See, I'll take that.

[Michael Costa]

Look, the new world order point that we started with, I think is very important here because what the Trump administration, and I think this is Certainly Trump's view. J.D. vance has spoken about this. Marco Rubio has spoken about this. Their view is that this world order we tried to establish in which the US does take on these burdens, and in your view, we benefit from taking on those burdens.

[Oren Cass]

I think it's a mixed bag. I would not say it's. It's purely benefit. I think what we do spend on defense is, is kind of insane. And to have 850 military bases to project power across the world, I wholeheartedly agree with that. I think unleashing those forces through vindictiveness and like blaming them for victimizing us is not the methodology like everything else. Like Doge. I always hate that strawman. Like we go, I don't like the way this is going. Oh, you're not for efficiency like that.

[Jon Stewart]

Same thing.

[Oren Cass]

Oh, you just want, you want Germany to keep freeloading. That's not what I'm saying. And I think it's a misreading of that point and not being fair to the nuance of it. I understand that there can be adjustments in that and that free trade can be rebalanced and all those other things, but they're breaking something that did serve us. Maybe not phenomenally, but okay. And we had a really strong hand in building it. And now we're pretending like they did it to us. And that feels unfair.

[Jon Stewart]

I was doing when I.

[Oren Cass]

Let me tell you something, when I come on your stage, studio show, I realize that's difficult to handle. Hey, look, it's not so fair. I didn't. Yeah, you know what I mean?

[Michael Costa]

I saw you prep them in everything.

[Jon Stewart]

Yeah, but talk about that a little bit.

[Michael Costa]

Yeah. So first of all, I think you're absolutely right that the US did construct this system. And I think if that doesn't mean that the US should not learn lessons, that doesn't mean that conditions don't change. But I do think it absolutely creates an obligation for us to be thoughtful in how we proceed. And I think it's a fair critique if we're not being thoughtful in how we proceed.

[Oren Cass]

That felt like a very different answer. Than Germany and Japan freeload on us.

[Michael Costa]

And you know that's also true.

[Oren Cass]

All right, would you, you know, do you think. What do you think's gonna happen? Or do you worry about the instability of not easing this transition? But is this a. And look, I've read the whole, like, Mar A Lago Accord, and I don't know if that's a conspiracy. Is the idea that there's some master plan if we create this chaos, we cause all this thing to draw people to Mar A Lago where they renegotiate our nation's debt? Is that something that you think is plausible? Or is that what this is all about? Is that why they're not doing it in a way that seems more thoughtful?

[Michael Costa]

So let me say two things about it. The first is I think a lot of the critiques of how it's being done are very fair. And I think it's important to distinguish that from the discussion of the principles boom. Because I think the principles are important and we should want to have the right set of principles and not throw them out just because they're not being pursued in the way we might like. When it comes to something like the Mar A Lago Accord, I think what you see people talking about and trying to move toward is to say if we think this sort of liberal world order system, first of all, even if it was serving the US well at one point, is not serving it as well anymore, second of all, to some extent, may just be going away anyway. China is now rising as a peer competitor. The US Cannot be a unipolar hegemon like it was when the Cold War ended. So if we accept that things are going to change, we should have a perspective on what we want. And, you know, something that I've been writing about a lot is trying to interpret and decipher what that might look like, because, again, it's a very fair critique. They have not been as clear about it as we should want them to be. What I think we should want and what, like I said, folks in the administration like a Marco Rubio or a Scott Besant, who I think do write and speak thoughtfully about it, have pointed toward, is the idea that we absolutely want a strong economic and security alliance. It's not going to be the whole world because China's going to have its own sphere as well. But what we want to have within our sphere is a few things that in the past, the US didn't necessarily ask for. We're going to want balanced trade, where in the past we were happy to Let the manufacturing go elsewhere. We're going to want others to essentially own their own defense burdens. That doesn't mean we're not partnering and working together, but that everybody takes primary responsibility for their own defense.

[Oren Cass]

No NATO? No like alliance like that?

[Michael Costa]

No, no, you can absolutely have an alliance like that. But the alliance is premised on if you are Germany, you are on the front lines of what the concerns in Europe are. If you are Japan, you are on the front lines of the concerns with China.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

It's not a matter of everyone simply turning and asking the US what the US Is going to do. And then the third element is keeping China out and recognizing that China, to your point, China's just been doing China, doing what's best for China. But that, that is not consistent with what the US And a US led alliance would want. And so if you want to get from where we are today to that kind of system, you are asking things of allies that they haven't been asked before.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

And so the question is, how do you make that a credible ask? Because I think it's fair. I don't think that those are unreasonable things to ask. But you are going to have to be willing to back that up and say the old world, the old version is gone. Let's talk about what the new version could look like.

[Oren Cass]

Right.

[Michael Costa]

And I think, do you think they.

[Oren Cass]

Prematurely blew up the old version or you really felt like it just wasn't, it wasn't functioning in that way anymore?

[Michael Costa]

I think the old version has, I think the old version has been gone for a while at this point. That, that in the economic sphere, the, the idea of the sort of era of cheap goods, the era of cheap goods, the era of the US being able to simply sort of exert its military will on the world. The era of the US Economy being so much stronger than others that we could afford to absorb everybody else's production. You know, over the last 10 to 20 years, the U.S. the typical working family has not been well served by that deal. I don't think.

[Oren Cass]

No question. And this is where so it sometimes gets, listen, people have differing viewpoints and it can get confusing and trying to. Here's where I think there can be great agreement, working people making living wages. And I think that would be very surprising for someone on the center right to sort of agree with maybe the more progressive wing of the Democrats. But that is absolutely a value that we have lost. And do you think that's something that the right will follow you along with? Because it's something I think the left has been screaming about for a very long time.

[Michael Costa]

Well, I think we're moving in that direction. You know, I think it is a process of transition. When a party reorients, the term realignment gets used a lot. We're increasingly seeing working people coming into the Republican Party. We're seeing Republican leaders, folks like Marco Rubio, J.D. vance, increasingly, I think, speak credibly and seriously to some of their concerns. We're seeing more openness to the labor movement. You have the Teamsters president partnering with someone like Senator Josh Hawley on legislation. And so I really do think that that is happening. I think the politicians will always be the lagging indicator. Right. The, the folks in their 70s and 80s. The folks in their 70s, you're talking.

[Oren Cass]

About the junior senators.

[Michael Costa]

Mitch McConnell is unlikely to suddenly adopt all of this. But if you look at.

[Jon Stewart]

Don't count them out.

[Oren Cass]

I'm gonna go 110, he's gonna be ready.

[Michael Costa]

You have more faith than I do. When you look at younger Republicans, both folks coming into the Senate, so I mentioned Rubio and Vance, folks like Jim Banks from Indiana, Bernie Moreno from Ohio, all of them are more focused on these kinds of issues. And then when you look behind that, at the sorts of people I work with, the policy wonks, researchers, writers, journalists, lawyers, folks sort of 40 and under, are overwhelmingly oriented in this way. And so I have a great deal of hope that as that moves to be the center of the party, you really are going to see a different Republican Party that still loves markets and wants them to work, but has a much better understanding of their limitation, has much more concern for what is happening to typical working family, and wants to figure out how to keep their conservative principles, but apply them somehow to use public policy and make things better.

[Oren Cass]

So socialism, essentially.

[Jon Stewart]

I appreciate it. One final question and then I'll let you go because I know we're busy.

[Oren Cass]

The final question is this. Are you concerned if they realign the trade? Look, corporations are, as you said, they're profit seeking and that's how they go. Are you afraid that the globalization movement, where they sought the lowest form of regulation and workers wages, will just be translated into this country? So in other words, in the way that China might have undercut the United States, are you worried South Carolina and Texas undercut Wisconsin and Michigan and that this revitalizing the manufacturing base will fall prey to the same dynamics that we saw it fall prey to globally? Is that a concern?

[Michael Costa]

I'm not too concerned about that because that has always been a feature of American political economy. We've always had that sort of competition.

[Oren Cass]

Between we can handle that.

[Michael Costa]

We can. And I think that's the best way to think about more protection of the American market. There's been this idea for so long that free trade and free markets are sort of synonymous. If you like free markets, you want more free trade. But free trade with China does not advance free markets. It takes everything authoritarian and communist in China and imports it. You know, now your companies have to compete with that. And then now you need more safety net programs to support those who lose their jobs. You need more chips acts and industrial policies. You have to respond in all sorts of ways.

[Oren Cass]

And so many people, like so many of the people that use those subsidies are actually working. They're not. This isn't one of those like lazy people sitting on the couch coasting on the government dime, like working people with one, sometimes two jobs that still have to subsidize it because they're just not paid enough. And it's very, very difficult.

[Jon Stewart]

But this is, listen, the book, the one, the Works of Future Work. This is your old book.

[Oren Cass]

What's the new one called?

[Michael Costa]

It's called the New Conservatives. It's a summary of what we've been doing for the last five years at American Compass developing this, the Conserved Economics of the New Right. And it will be out at the beginning of June.

[Oren Cass]

And when you go back to them and you and you tell them, how was it? You'll say, like, Stewart was right about at least one.

[Michael Costa]

I'm going to tell him because I called John Stewart a racist. I'm not sure that was smart.

[Jon Stewart]

It's all good. The New Conservatives are pre Order subscribe to Orange Newsletter. Understanding American Substance Orange class Good baker rarely got this. That was brilliant.

[Dennis Black]

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[Jon Stewart]

Welcome tonight, before we go, we're gonna check in with your host for the rest of the week, Michael Costa. Michael, what do you got for us?

[Michael Costa]

John, you know these Trump tariffs could tank the market this week, which is why you and you all need to diversify, diversify your portfolios. Okay? For example, I have bitcoin, but I also have NFTs, crypto and meme coin. I am the pinnacle of diversity, financially speaking, John.

[Oren Cass]

So again, I think those are all digital. I think everything you mentioned was digital. Do you have stocks and bonds and savings?

[Michael Costa]

John, it's not the 90s, okay? Cash all that garbage out and put it into crypto. Your money needs to be in safe assets like Shiba Bucks, Snaggle jazz, loincoin, groin coin, Tickle Nickels, and John, the often overlooked Logan Paul presents. I Can't Believe It's Not Money. Trust me, John, if your life savings aren't in Jizz pump, you're going to feel pretty silly.

[Jon Stewart]

Thank you. Michael Kosta put it all in Jizz Pump. Michael Kosta, ladies and gentlemen, here it is, your moment of doubt. What's something that people wouldn't know about the President? You're pretty close to him now. You spend a lot of time with him. What's something that people wouldn't know?

[Michael Costa]

I think the President is a good man. I think he is an honest man. And I have yet to see him do anything mean or anything that is wrong.

[Jon Stewart]

That I would say morally wrong.

[Michael Costa]

Not even once.

[Dennis Black]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the.

[Michael Costa]

Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on.

[Jon Stewart]

Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount plus.

[Michael Costa]

Paramount Podcasts.

[Dennis Black]

Ever notice your dog slowing down and having health issues and wonder, what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add rough greens to your dog's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings, naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of ruffgreens here, and I invite you to give your pup the Ruffgreens 90 Day Challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health, and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to try rough greens dot com. Use promo code. Try rough. That's T R Y R U F F. Go to try rough greens dot com. Use promo code. Try rough. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food. To improve your dog's health, just add a scoop of rough greens.