TDS Time Machine | John Oliver on Gun Control

Summary

Summary of "TDS Time Machine | John Oliver on Gun Control"

The Daily Show: Ears Edition
Episode: TDS Time Machine | John Oliver on Gun Control
Release Date: April 14, 2025
Hosts: John Oliver, Philip Van Cleave (Virginia Citizens Defense League)
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts and Paramount Podcasts

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Introduction

In this compelling episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, host John Oliver delves into the highly contentious issue of gun control in America. Titled "TDS Time Machine | John Oliver on Gun Control," the episode is the first part of a three-part series where Oliver examines the complexities of gun legislation by juxtaposing the American landscape with Australia's successful gun control measures.

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Part 1: The Gun Control Debate with Philip Van Cleave

The episode commences with a spirited exchange between John Oliver and Philip Van Cleave, a representative from the Virginia Citizens Defense League. The conversation centers on the efficacy of gun control measures, with Van Cleave staunchly defending the Second Amendment.

• Second Amendment Defense:
  Van Cleave asserts, "The Second Amendment, you know, is sacrosanct." (00:32)

• Dismissal of Gun Control Proposals:
  Oliver proposes common gun control measures, such as an assault weapons ban and increased background checks, only to have Van Cleave dismiss them as infringements on constitutional rights. For instance, when Oliver suggests a mandatory one-hour waiting period for gun purchases, Van Cleave responds, "Unless I could see a reason. No, I can't think of anything that I support because at the end of the day, none of it works." (01:05)

• Australia as a Counterexample:
  Oliver introduces Australia’s gun control success story, highlighting the 1996 legislation that followed a tragic mass shooting. He questions Van Cleave’s claims by pointing out the absence of subsequent mass shootings in Australia, to which Van Cleave retorts, "I guess if we're going to go to Planet X and say it's not the United States, it's some other planet, different people, different everything, I don't know. Yeah, but in the real world with human beings, it's not going to work. And gun control isn't going to work." (01:47)

• Statistical Perspectives:
  Oliver counters by presenting data from Australia, noting a significant decline in gun-related homicides and suicides post-legislation. Van Cleave downplays these statistics, suggesting the reduction could be a "statistical anomaly" and maintaining that gun control merely manages death rates without eliminating crime. For example, when discussing the decline in homicides, Oliver summarizes, "Homicides with guns went down. Suicide with guns also went down. Zero mass shootings." (03:02)

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Part 2: Exploring Australia’s Gun Control Measures

Transitioning from debate to exploration, Oliver travels to Australia to investigate their gun control strategies. He interviews key figures involved in the 1996 legislation.

• Interview with Jim Manley:
  Jim Manley, a longtime aide to Harry Reid, discusses the daunting influence of the NRA in the United States, stating, "The NRA is still a very powerful force in this country. They have 4 million members who are very, very determined to get their way." (06:08) He further elaborates on the political risks associated with challenging the NRA, emphasizing the difficulties American politicians face compared to their Australian counterparts.

• Discussion with Rob Borbidge:
  Oliver speaks with Rob Borbidge, the former premier of Queensland, who played a pivotal role in enacting gun control laws in Australia. Borbidge defends his actions despite the political backlash, proclaiming, "We paid a high political price, but we did the right thing. Look, there are Australians alive today because we took that action. I mean, how much is a life worth?" (07:12) This segment highlights the stark contrast between Australian and American political environments regarding gun legislation.

• Political Consequences:
  The conversation underscores the concept of political suicide associated with supporting gun control in America, a notion absent in Australia. Borbidge reflects on his decision, stating, "I took the stand. I was prepared to face the political consequences, and we delivered gun control." (06:49)

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Part 3: Evaluating the Applicability of Australian Gun Control in America

In the final installment of the series, Oliver scrutinizes whether Australia's gun control success can be replicated in the United States, engaging once again with Philip Van Cleave and other Australian commentators.

• Cultural Differences:
  Van Cleave argues that America's culture is fundamentally different from Australia's, saying, "We're not Australia. It's a very different culture, different people, different everything." (12:18) Oliver challenges this by highlighting historical and cultural nuances, including Australia's colonial past and its implications on gun ownership.

• Concerns Over Tyranny:
  Van Cleave voices fears prevalent among American gun advocates about government overreach, stating, "The founding fathers knew that governments tend to grow beyond their means. In America, we're stepping in the direction of a police state." (12:50) Oliver juxtaposes this with the Australian perspective, which lacks such widespread fears.

• Impact on Society:
  Oliver cites an anonymous Australian who admits initial resistance to gun control but eventually recognizes its societal benefits, saying, "I felt as if I had a bit of a duty to the rest of our society." (15:15)

• Effectiveness of Legislation:
  Highlighting the swift implementation of gun laws in Australia, Oliver remarks on the contrast with the prolonged legislative battles in the U.S. He sarcastically notes, "But it doesn't work." after discussing Australia's success, emphasizing the paradox in Van Cleave's arguments.

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Conclusion

Throughout the episode, John Oliver masterfully interweaves humor and critical analysis to examine the contentious debate on gun control. By juxtaposing the American resistance with Australia's successful legislation, Oliver underscores the complexities and challenges inherent in reforming gun laws in the U.S. The episode concludes with a thought-provoking assertion that despite cultural differences, addressing human behavior is pivotal in mitigating gun violence.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps

• Philip Van Cleave:
  "The Second Amendment, you know, is sacrosanct." (00:32)
  "Unless I could see a reason. No, I can't think of anything that I support because at the end of the day, none of it works." (01:05)

• John Oliver:
  "Gun control does not work. What if, hypothetically speaking, what if gun control could work, which obviously it can't, so we know that it won't, so that's not a problem." (01:13)
  "Whoop de do, whoop de doo." (03:05)

• Jim Manley:
  "The NRA is still a very powerful force in this country. They have 4 million members who are very, very determined to get their way." (06:08)
  "If you don't get reelected, you know, you're just roadkill in the political process. And you're just another loser." (08:14)

• Rob Borbidge:
  "We paid a high political price, but we did the right thing. Look, there are Australians alive today because we took that action. I mean, how much is a life worth?" (07:12)
  "Because they might want a safer society to live in." (13:38)

• Anonymous Australian:
  "No, but I felt as if I had a bit of a duty to the rest of our society." (15:28)

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Final Thoughts

John Oliver's in-depth exploration of gun control through both debate and firsthand investigation provides listeners with a nuanced understanding of the issue. By highlighting the successes and challenges faced by Australia, Oliver invites his audience to reflect on the potential pathways forward for the United States. The episode serves as a thought-provoking contribution to the ongoing national dialogue on gun legislation.

Transcript

[Announcer]

You're listening to Comedy Central.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Welcome back. For more on the gun debate, we're.

[John Oliver]

Bringing the first part of a three part series with John Oliver.

Yesterday, Americans watched in shock as even watered down gun legislation died on the floor of the Senate. But that is exactly where it belongs, according to gun lobbyists like Philip Van Cleve of the Virginia Citizens Defense League.

[Philip Van Cleave]

The Second Amendment, you know, is sacrosanct.

[John Oliver]

You hold up this sign whenever I make a suggestion that you think is infringing upon your Second Amendment rights. Okay?

[Philip Van Cleave]

Okay.

[John Oliver]

Assault weapons ban. Boom, there it is. Increased background checks. Really?

[Philip Van Cleave]

Yes.

[John Oliver]

Just for. Just for background checks.

[Philip Van Cleave]

We don't do background checks for the First Amendment.

[John Oliver]

Okay, so let's just try this one, okay? Nice and easy.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Sure.

[John Oliver]

A mandatory one hour waiting period if you buy a gun.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Why?

[John Oliver]

Are you kidding me?

[Philip Van Cleave]

Unless I could see a reason. No, I can't think of anything that I support because at the end of the day, none of it works.

[John Oliver]

Exactly. Gun control does not work. What if, hypothetically speaking, what if gun control could work, which obviously it can't, so we know that it won't, so that's not a problem. But what if it could, due to that time that it did?

[Philip Van Cleave]

Okay, when was that?

[John Oliver]

Australia. Yes, Australia. In 1996, a conservative Prime Minister, John Howard, instituted sweeping gun control laws following a mass shooting that shocked the nation. So should we be learning from this effective example? Of course not.

[Philip Van Cleave]

I guess if we're going to go to Planet X and say it's not the United States, it's some other planet, different people, different everything, I don't know. Yeah, but in the real world with human beings, it's not going to work. And gun control isn't going to work.

[John Oliver]

Unfortunately, not only is Australia actually in the real world, even their animals can holster weapons. So who was right about gun control? There was only one way to find out. Confront the man responsible. Mr. Prime Minister, let's begin in the formal Australian way. G'day.

[John Howard]

How do you do?

[John Oliver]

Obviously, gun control doesn't work. It can't work. It will never work. So how was your scheme a failure?

[John Howard]

Well, my scheme was not a failure. We had a massacre at a place called Port Arthur 17 years ago and there have been none since.

[John Oliver]

Zero gun massacres. Hold on, did gun control actually work?

[Philip Van Cleave]

It stopped one thing. That could also be a statistical anomaly.

[John Oliver]

Yeah, it was just their mass shootings disappeared.

[Philip Van Cleave]

But there were so few of them.

[John Oliver]

Whoop de do, whoop de doo. Yeah, whoop dee doo.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Yes, mass shootings were rare anyhow.

[John Oliver]

Exactly. They probably Barely had a massacre before 1996.

[John Howard]

There were about 13 in the previous 18 years.

[John Oliver]

In the 18 years before Port Arthur, there were 13 mass shootings. Yes, almost one a year.

[Philip Van Cleave]

I was unaware they had that many masks being what, more than two people at a time?

[John Oliver]

More than four.

[Philip Van Cleave]

More than four.

[John Oliver]

Okay, whoop dee doo. But perhaps there were other non whoop dee doo side effects.

[John Howard]

The homicide rate involving the use of guns has declined significantly by factors of up to 50 and 60%. And the incidence of youth suicides involving guns has declined dramatically.

[John Oliver]

Whoopty doo. Help me out here, Philip. Homicides with guns went down. Suicide with guns also went down. Zero mass shootings.

[Philip Van Cleave]

What did happen? Australia still has murders, rapes and robberies. Last I checked.

[John Oliver]

Unless you can get rid of 100% of crime, it's not worth doing at all.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Well, put it this way. It's illegal to have crack cocaine anywhere in the United States. Do you think if somebody really wants it, they can get their hands on crack cocaine in America?

[John Oliver]

So unless we can completely get rid of drugs, there's no point in having drug laws at all.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Let me think about that for a minute. Well, I guess effectively it doesn't work.

[John Oliver]

You can't argue with Philip. Even his logic is bulletproof.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Well, let me put it to you this way. There are more drownings in backyards where they have pools. They don't have a pool. There are no drownings in backyards. Okay, so the US Has a very high number of guns. Therefore there is going to be more chances for somebody to be killed with a gun.

[John Oliver]

Right, right, right. That's my point. Philip might think that living in a society with dramatically reduced gun violence is a whoop de doo. And people in Australia couldn't agree with him more. Whoop dee doo.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Whoop de doo, mate.

[Announcer]

Whoop dee doo.

[John Oliver]

Whoop de what that means. Whoopi.

[Announcer]

Yeah, Donald.

[John Oliver]

We'll be right back.

[Announcer]

Welcome back.

[Philip Van Cleave]

So last week, as we were watching.

[John Oliver]

On the show last week, we learned that while our United States Senate was unable to pass even the most basic gun control measures, Australia has had a successful gun control scheme for almost two decades. John Oliver visited our cousins from across a couple of ponds to find out more in part two of our three part series.

In 1996, following a massacre, Australia's conservative government enforced a national buyback of semi automatic weapons while also heavily regulating the purchase and storage of other firearms. The result was dramatically reduced levels of gun violence. So why can't we do that here? To find out, I sat down with longtime aide To Harry Reid, Jim Manley.

[Jim Manley]

The NRA is still a very powerful force in this country. They have 4 million members who are very, very determined to get their way.

[John Oliver]

And how can a nation of 300 million compete with that?

[Jim Manley]

It's difficult to understand sometime, isn't it? But the fact of the matter is that you've got to think long and hard before you support gun control legislation. Because taking on the NRA can be political suicide.

[John Oliver]

And the Democratic Party is working tirelessly to reduce the rate of political suicide among its members. Surely Australian politicians weren't stupid enough to end their political lives for gun control.

[Rob Borbidge]

Well, I did what I did.

[John Oliver]

You did what?

[Rob Borbidge]

I took the stand. I was prepared to face the political consequences, and we delivered gun control.

[John Oliver]

Meet Rob Borbuch, former premier of Queensland, Australia's most Conservative State. In 1996, he was instrumental in enacting gun control, knowing it would cost him his political career in the next election.

[Rob Borbidge]

We paid a high political price, but we did the right thing. Look, there are Australians alive today because we took that action. I mean, how much is a life worth?

[John Oliver]

But Jim Manley knows that a true public servant has more important concerns. What makes a politician successful?

[Jim Manley]

Getting reelected by his or her constituents.

[John Oliver]

Right. Yeah. That's how you judge success.

[Jim Manley]

Okay, that's. Well, getting legislation done.

[John Oliver]

Second is second. Yes, that is second. Holy. That is second.

[Jim Manley]

Uh, if I could rewind this tape, I'd say getting legislation done and getting reelected by your constituents.

[John Oliver]

But seeing as we can't rewind the tape, let's just go with the answer you gave on instinct.

[Jim Manley]

If you don't get reelected, you know, you're just roadkill in the political process. And you're just another loser.

[John Oliver]

Tragically, not everyone understands this. What makes a politician successful?

[Rob Borbidge]

Go making society a better place.

[John Oliver]

No, no, no, Rob. No, look, we can. We can actually rewind the tape. Are we rolling? What makes a politician successful?

[Rob Borbidge]

Well, it's your responsibility to govern in the best interests of the people that you serve, Rob.

[John Oliver]

I mean, I'm going out on a limb here. I've already told someone else that I can't do this when I can.

[Rob Borbidge]

I hope you got a lot of tape.

[John Oliver]

True success is a lifelong politician like Harry Reid, whose watered down gun legislation was carefully designed to protect those who needed it most.

[Jim Manley]

He has a responsibility as the Democratic leader to protect the caucus.

[John Oliver]

Right. The caucus needs to be protected. The caucus does.

[Jim Manley]

They need to be protected politically.

[John Oliver]

How many political careers have been tragically ended by gun control?

[Jim Manley]

We've lost some good folks over the years because of their views.

[John Oliver]

Right. You have a perfectly healthy political career. And then bang, just like that. Which means former Australian Prime Minister John Howard has blood on his hands. Do you ever think about the innocent victims of your gun control?

[John Howard]

There were no innocent victims of mine. There were no victims at all. That's a photograph of Rob Borbuch. He was incredibly courageous politically in supporting.

[John Oliver]

Our laws, but politically, he's dead bang, just like that.

[John Howard]

Well, he lost an election that we all do at some point.

[John Oliver]

But Howard is not alone. His Deputy Prime Minister, Tim Fisher, also refuses to accept responsibility for these career massacres. So you don't look at these faces and feel guilt.

[Tim Fisher]

Well, they're alive.

[John Oliver]

They're politically dead.

[Tim Fisher]

I hope that those who totally veto any move to bring sensible semi automatic and automatic weapon control to the suburbs of America are also politically dead. But physically alive.

[John Oliver]

Not if I could help it. Never again will a political career end in a senseless act of meaningful legislation. It's just all of these, all of them are dead politically. Okay, not physically. Physically, they're probably safer than they've ever been before.

[John Howard]

World's a very dicey thingy.

[John Oliver]

I mean, again, just to reiterate, physically they're absolutely fine, but it makes you think.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Sure does.

[John Oliver]

Yeah. Unfortunately, what spending time with politically dead Australian politicians made me think about was how horribly wrong we have it in America. Thanks for speaking with me, Rob.

[Rob Borbidge]

Pleasure.

[John Oliver]

You are a great human being.

[Rob Borbidge]

Thank you.

[John Oliver]

It's just by all American standards, you are a politician. And the fact that that is true is why I am now going to walk into the ocean. In America, we're told gun control is not possible, but in Australia, they've shown it is providing a fantastic lesson for America to ignore.

[Philip Van Cleave]

John Oliver. We'll be right back. We continue tonight our series from Australia.

[John Oliver]

John Oliver learned that following a mass shooting in Australia, the country introduced gun control. And it worked. So how can America take this valuable lesson? John Oliver finds out in this, our final installment.

Previously, I went to Australia, where I learned that in 1996, their government enacted sweeping gun control laws. The result, reduced gun violence and zero mass shootings. So are there any lessons for America? Here, Virginia gun advocate Philip Van Cleave has a clear answer.

[Philip Van Cleave]

We're not Australia. It's a very different culture, different people, different everything.

[John Oliver]

Right. There's no similarity with Australia. Australia is a former British colony with a wild frontier that was tamed by brave men who also wiped out almost an entire indigenous population. And we are not similar to that. Right, right, right. Because unlike Australia. We Americans know when the guns are taken away, tyranny inevitably follows.

[Philip Van Cleave]

The founding fathers knew that governments tend to grow beyond their means. In America, we're stepping in the direction of a police state.

[John Oliver]

Is that really happening, Philip, or is that some kind of crazy paranoia?

[Philip Van Cleave]

We have police, they're now wearing ninja suits, if you will. I mean, you don't even know they're police necessarily. They got the black masks on and everything.

[John Oliver]

So it really isn't crazy paranoia you're justifiably frightened about. Ninja police, yeah.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Ninja police, yes, yeah.

[John Oliver]

Ninja police.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Yes. Yeah.

[John Oliver]

Sadly, without access to semi automatic firearms, Australians wouldn't know a thing about real freedom. Bloody oath. We're free. We just sit here doing whatever we want. Everybody's just hanging out and having a good time.

[Rob Borbidge]

People don't have the same concerns anymore about getting gunned down when they're at a tourist resort.

[John Oliver]

Yeah, but was that worth it? Yes. Was it worth giving up your freedom, fundamental freedoms, just to not get shot in a gun massacre? What the are you talking about? Australians must now live in this well regulated nightmare because of ex politicians like Rob Borbidge who smugly thinks that his country has something to teach us.

[Rob Borbidge]

I hope that they would have a look at what has happened here.

[John Oliver]

Why would people want to live like this?

[Rob Borbidge]

Because they might want a safer society to live in.

[John Oliver]

But it's pointless for us to study the Australian experience because their fear of gun control back then has no parallels with ours. I mean, what kind of things were you hearing when you suggested gun control?

[Rob Borbidge]

That government was becoming a dictatorship.

[John Oliver]

Alright, that's one.

[Rob Borbidge]

We were told that people would not have the right to defend their property and their families.

[John Oliver]

Okay, that's definitely true.

[Rob Borbidge]

Democracy is at stake somehow. If government decides, there should be a background check.

[John Oliver]

Yeah, alright.

[Rob Borbidge]

That we're about to be invaded by the Indonesians.

[John Oliver]

That's completely different. No one in America is afraid of Indonesians. Are they afraid of Mexicans and Muslims coming? Maybe. Sure, he claims Australians were angry, but where is the proof?

[Rob Borbidge]

People's rights are being taken away from.

[Tim Fisher]

Them and I'm not going to give up any guns that they're going to take off me. Are you going to give yours up?

[John Oliver]

Okay, there it is. But how do those angry rural conservatives feel now?

[Anonymous Australian]

My immediate reaction was that it was an overreaction, but as time went on, the regulations were quite manageable.

[John Oliver]

So hold on, you didn't want to give up your high powered gun?

[Anonymous Australian]

No, but I felt as if I had a bit of a duty to the rest of our society.

[John Oliver]

And if you think that sounds bat crazy, this effective gun control was enacted by conservative politicians against the will of their own base. There's no other way. There is no other way. But our politicians are different. They know that gun control doesn't work. Or even if it does, it takes a long time. And to be fair, John Howard and his Deputy Prime Minister Tim Fisher have have had since 1996 to enact their sweeping reforms.

[Tim Fisher]

It took less than three and a half months.

[John Oliver]

What?

[Tim Fisher]

What half a massacre was on 28 April 1996? Yep, in a 12 week period. Shortly following, that bulk of legislation was devised, drafted, debated and implemented.

[John Oliver]

But it doesn't work.

[Tim Fisher]

Zero massacres since 1996.

[John Oliver]

Yeah, you keep saying that, but gun control doesn't work. So my head was spinning. I had to clear it the traditional Aussie way. BF no, not that way. A walkabout.

[Philip Van Cleave]

The second amendment is sacrosanct political suicide.

[Tim Fisher]

Zero masses. It's not enough. From my cold dead hand.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Dead hand Ninja police.

[John Oliver]

It's a. It's a blue banana. So hungry. Blue banana. What the. After three days in the bush with a guy in a kangaroo suit, it became clear what the real issue with gun control in America is. If girls aren't the problem, Philip, what is the problem?

[Philip Van Cleave]

People.

[John Oliver]

People are the problem.

[Rob Borbidge]

Yes.

[John Oliver]

Do you know what? After spending this amount of time with you, Philip, I'm starting to believe that that's partially true.

[Rob Borbidge]

Good.

[John Oliver]

Good.

[Philip Van Cleave]

Well, I'm glad you understand that people are the problem.

[John Oliver]

That is becoming just painfully obvious. After investigating the issue on opposite sides of the earth, I discovered that if Americans really do want gun control, there is actually one thing they can do to get it. Move to Australia.

John Oliver.

[Philip Van Cleave]

We'll be right back.

[Announcer]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount plus.

[John Oliver]

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