Ted Cruz & Tucker Carlson Battle Over Iran While Trump Enters His Decorating Era | Matt Berninger

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition Episode: Ted Cruz & Tucker Carlson Battle Over Iran While Trump Enters His Decorating Era | Matt Berninger
Release Date: June 19, 2025
Host/Authors: iHeartPodcasts and Paramount Podcasts

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1. Opening Monologue: Trump’s Indecision and MAGA Rift

[00:37] Jordan Klepper

Jordan Klepper kicks off the episode by addressing the simmering tension within the MAGA base, primarily sparked by former President Donald Trump's hesitancy to RSVP to Israel's call for war. This indecision has ignited a fierce debate between two prominent right-wing figures: Senator Ted Cruz and media personality Tucker Carlson.

Key Highlights:

• Cruz vs. Carlson: Ted Cruz advocates for military action against Iran, while Tucker Carlson criticizes Cruz’s understanding of Iranian demographics.

  • [01:34] Tucker Carlson: “How many people live in Iran, by the way?”
  • [01:36] Ted Cruz: “I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.”
  • [01:48] Jordan Klepper: Pokes fun at Cruz’s lack of knowledge, highlighting the absurdity of the debate.

• Escalating Conflict: The exchange devolves into a mock battle of wits, showcasing the deep divisions and lack of consensus within the MAGA faction regarding foreign policy decisions.

  • [03:02] Ted Cruz: “They are Persians and predominantly Shia.”
  • [03:12] Tucker Carlson: “You just said we were [supporting Israel].”
  • [03:14] Jordan Klepper: Illustrates the confusion and fragmentation within the group.

2. Trump’s Flagpole Project: A Diverting Distraction

[04:08] Donald Trump

As the nation awaits a decisive move from Trump on the Middle East conflict, he makes an unexpected announcement about installing new flagpoles at the White House.

Key Highlights:

• Flagpole Installation: Trump describes the project with exaggerated pride, diverting attention from the pressing geopolitical issues.

  • [05:22] Donald Trump: “We will be putting up two beautiful flag poles on both sides of the White House north and south lawns.”
  • [05:35] Jordan Klepper: Sarcastically comments, “That will be something for the groundskeepers to take care of while you're busy in the Situation Room dealing with more important matters.”

• Mockery and Satire: Jordan and the team humorously critique Trump’s focus on trivial projects amidst international tensions.

  • [07:01] Jordan Klepper: Jokes about Trump’s supposed fear of using the word “erection,” tying it back to his flagpole talk.
  • [08:09] Donald Trump: “I may do it. I may not do it. I mean, nobody knows what I'm gonna do.”

3. Sports War Segment: Betting and Ballparks

[10:25] Sportswar with Jordan Klepper and Desi Lydic

Transitioning from politics to sports, the "Sports War" segment features Jordan Klepper and Desi Lydic engaging in lighthearted debates about various sports topics, infused with their signature humor.

Key Highlights:

• Caitlin Clark’s Injury Impact:

  • [11:12] Alex Pfeiffer: Reports on Caitlin Clark’s return and its effect on the WNBA.
  • [11:17] Jordan Klepper: Humorously criticizes fans for abandoning the WNBA over a single player’s injury.

• DeMarcus Cousins’ Antics:

  • [12:48] Jordan Klepper: Describes Cousins’ suspension in Puerto Rico’s league after an altercation with a fan.
  • [13:16] Jordan Klepper: Jokes about Cousins’ outrageous behavior, including inappropriate gestures.

• Aaron Rodgers’ Marriage:

  • [14:03] Jordan Klepper: Mockingly discusses Aaron Rodgers’ move to the Pittsburgh Steelers and his secret marriage.
  • [15:09] Jordan Klepper: Continues with playful jabs about Rodgers’ personal life and professional decisions.

4. Special Guest Interview: Matt Berninger on "Get Sunk"

[16:12] Matt Berninger

The episode features an in-depth interview with Matt Berninger, the Grammy-winning frontman of The National, discussing his new solo album "Get Sunk." Berninger delves into his creative process, personal struggles, and the transformative journey behind his latest work.

Key Highlights:

• Creative Evolution:

  • [17:00] Jordan Klepper: Compliments Berninger’s new album and probes into the Midwest influences present in his music.
  • [17:28] Matt Berninger: Shares personal anecdotes about growing up on the Cincinnati-Indiana border and how his uncle’s Christmas tree farm inspired his songwriting.

• Overcoming Personal Struggles:

  • [19:08] Matt Berninger: Opens up about battling depression during the pandemic and the challenges of redefining his identity outside of The National.
  • [20:30] Jordan Klepper: Engages in a humorous exchange, highlighting the candidness of Berninger’s revelations.

• Innovative Writing Techniques:

  • [22:07] Matt Berninger: Explains his unconventional method of writing lyrics on baseballs as a way to break free from traditional notebook writing and engage creatively.
  • [23:16] Jordan Klepper: Teases the uniqueness of Berninger’s approach, emphasizing the blend of creativity and personal influence.

• Intergenerational Connection:

  • [27:23] Matt Berninger: Discusses the surprising alignment between his music and the tastes of younger audiences, drawing parallels with Taylor Swift’s songwriting style.
  • [29:33] Jordan Klepper: Expresses excitement for Berninger’s upcoming song “Inland Ocean” and the themes it explores.

• Notable Quotes:

  • [21:42] Jordan Klepper: “I think this is total bullshit right here.”
  • [25:23] Matt Berninger: “It's putting yourself in a constraint of some kind is really beneficial for creativity.”

5. Closing Remarks and Final Thoughts

[30:25] Jordan Klepper & Desi Lydic

The episode wraps up with humorous banter and promotional segments, highlighting the diverse range of topics covered and teasing future discussions.

Key Highlights:

• Promoting Matt Berninger’s Album: Jordan invites listeners to check out "Get Sunk," adding a personal touch to the endorsement.
• Teasing Future Segments: A playful mention of debating absurd sports ideas, such as playing hockey on pogo sticks, ensures listeners stay tuned for more engaging content.

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Notable Quotes with Timestamps:

• Jordan Klepper on Ted Cruz:
  [01:34] “How many people live in Iran, by the way?”
  [01:36] Ted Cruz: “I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.”

• Tucker Carlson’s Rebuke:
  [01:48] “You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple.”

• Trump on Flagpoles:
  [05:22] “At 11 o' clock, we're lifting the flag, but we're going to lift the pole now.”

• Matt Berninger on Depression:
  [19:08] “I went through a really long period of depression and stuff.”

• Jordan’s Humor on Creativity:
  [23:29] “I imagine seeing you and most people are like, this crazy guy is scribbling some sort of manifesto out of baseball.”

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Conclusion

This episode of "The Daily Show: Ears Edition" masterfully intertwines political satire with lighthearted sports commentary and a profound musical interview. From dissecting internal MAGA conflicts and mocking presidential distractions to exploring the creative depths of a renowned musician, the show offers a comprehensive and entertaining take on current events and personal narratives. Notably, the inclusion of timestamped quotes enriches the listener’s experience, providing key insights and memorable moments that encapsulate the episode’s essence.

Transcript

[Jordan Klepper]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Desi Lydic]

You're listening to Comedy Central.

[Matt Berninger]

From the.

[Desi Lydic]

Most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Jordan Klopper.

[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm George Klepper. We got so much to talk about tonight. Donald Trump takes a mental health day. We go balls deep on sports stories about balls, and Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz have a douche off. So let's get into headlines. For two days now, the world has been waiting for Donald Trump to decide whether to accept Israel's Evite to go to war. We know he's viewed it, but he still hasn't RSVP'd. I hate it when that happens. In the meantime, the question has started a separate war inside his MAGA base. And today, it exploded into a heated debate between the two most likable and charming voices on the right. On the one side is Ted Cruz, who wants war with Iran, and on the other is Tucker Carlson, who thinks Ted Cruz doesn't know shit about Iran.

[Tucker Carlson]

How many people live in Iran, by the way?

[Ted Cruz]

I don't know the population at all. No, I don't know the population.

[Tucker Carlson]

You don't know the population of the country you seek to topple.

[Ted Cruz]

How many people live in Iran?

[Tucker Carlson]

92 million.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, damn, Ted Cruz. Are you a pair of $800 Ferragamo boat shoes? Because Tucker Carlson owned you, buddy. Ted Cruz was like, I know the. Just give me a second to count. Okay, let's see. There's the Ayatollah. That's one. The Iron Sheik. Two is Aladdin one. I don't know if you enjoyed seeing Ted Cruz get metaphorically punched in the face. How would you like to see it again?

[Ted Cruz]

Why is it relevant? Whether it's 90 million or 80 million or 100 million, why is it relevant?

[Tucker Carlson]

Because if you don't know anything about the country.

[Ted Cruz]

I didn't say I don't know anything about the country.

[Tucker Carlson]

Ok. What's the ethnic mix of Iran?

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Not ethnic mixes. You don't want to go toe to toe with Tucker Carlson on ethnic mixes. That's his best subject. Look at poor Ted Cruz. He's like, uh, uh, uh, I'd like to phone a friend, please. Oh, shit. I don't have any. Uh, I had a waiter last night at Outback, and he called me champ. Can I phone him? You know, I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm. I'm starting to feel bad for Ted Cruz. So come on, Ted, you got this.

[Ted Cruz]

They are Persians and predominantly Shia.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay.

[Matt Berninger]

No, it's not even.

[Tucker Carlson]

You don't know anything about Iran, so.

[Ted Cruz]

Okay, I'm not the Tucker Carlson expert on Iran.

[Tucker Carlson]

You're a senator who's calling.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're the one who's throwing the government.

[Ted Cruz]

You're the one who claims anything about the country. No, you don't know anything about the country.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is awesome. You don't know anything. No, you don't know anything. I don't care about who wins the fight. I just, like, watch. It's like Alien versus Predator, but somehow more gross. But you can see how heated this is getting. Clearly, MAGA is much more divided about whether to overthrow Iran than they were about whether to overthrow America. Every little comment in this interview turned into a semantic battle.

[Ted Cruz]

Really believe that we're carrying out military strikes today?

[Tucker Carlson]

You said Israel was right with our help.

[Ted Cruz]

I said we. Israel is leading them, but we're supporting them.

[Tucker Carlson]

Well, this. You're breaking news here because the US Government last night denied, the National Security Council spokesman, Alex Pfeiffer denied on behalf of Trump that we were acting on Israel's behalf in any offensive capacity.

[Ted Cruz]

We're not bombing them. Israel's bombing them.

[Tucker Carlson]

You just said we were.

[Ted Cruz]

We are supporting Israel.

[Jordan Klepper]

We, I, you. For the party that promised. No confusion around pronouns. This is really confusing. The point is, MAGA world is tearing itself apart, and everyone is waiting for Trump to make a decision. And remember, Trump abruptly left the G7 summit so he could rush back to the White House, meet with his national security team in the Situation Room, and decide if he's bringing America into this war. So we were all waiting for the big announcement, and then Trump said in a truth social post, it is my great honor to announce that I will be putting up two beautiful flag poles on both sides of the White House north and south lawns. Yes, that is definitely an announcement. Not the announcement we were waiting for, but sure have a couple flag poles installed at the White House. That will be something for the groundskeepers to take care of while you're busy in the Situation Room dealing with more important matters.

[Donald Trump]

At 11 o' clock, we're lifting the flag, but we're going to lift the pole now. And then they're going to the other side.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay. All right, fine. Be out there introducing the whole thing. Now back to the Situation Room.

[Donald Trump]

So we'll have one on this side of the building. We'll have one on that side of the building. Properly placed, these are the best Poles anywhere in the country or in the world, actually. The tapered. They have the nice top. You know, I don't know if you people are aesthetic. You know, they're the fake news. So I don't know about. I don't know, but it's a very exciting project to me.

[Jordan Klepper]

What's going on here? Feels like someone told him, sir, you're not doing well in the polls. And he was like, I hear you. I'm on it. By the way, what was that aside about how the fake news doesn't understand flagpole aesthetics? I mean, this is a whole new stereotype of the liberal media I didn't even know about. They lie about Hunter Biden's laptop, and they have no appreciation for tapered flag poles. Now, personally, I think it's cool that Trump found a new use for the 50 foot pole that Melania refuses to touch him with. He was clearly having a good time, although he stopped himself from getting too carried away.

[Donald Trump]

Let's have a good. They call it a lifting. They also use another word, but I'm not gonna use that word. Do you know what the word. It starts with an e. You know what the word is? If I ever used it, I'd be run out of town by you people.

[Matt Berninger]

All right?

[Donald Trump]

So enjoy it.

[Jordan Klepper]

Come on, Donald. You think if you say the word erection, we're gonna all act like children and take it out of context? I mean, come on. Come on. Where'd you get a silly idea like that?

[Donald Trump]

I'm gonna come.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay, y. Now I remember, right? It's crazy for Trump to suddenly get all worried about saying erection. His closing campaign message was, vote for me. I saw Arnold Palmer's incredible penis. But okay, you came out, you talked about flagpoles, you met the flagpole guys, you made some flagpole related dick jokes. Time to turn around, go back inside and stop and. Or escalate this war. Let's not waste any more time.

[Donald Trump]

Say what you want about Biden. He wasn't for open borders. He wasn't for transgender. For everybody. We don't know where it's coming from. Sir, I said check out the tariffs. He calls back about a day later. Wow. Somewhere in this group is somebody that is going to captivate some movie producer, not Harvey Weinstein. The only thing too late is Powell. Powell's too late.

[Jordan Klepper]

Too late.

[Donald Trump]

Powell, let's have dinner. Too late. You ever have a guy that's not a smart person? And you're dealing with any illegal immigrants in here now? 35 club championships. You all know that I know that 35 club championships. Groceries are down, eggs are down. You know the eggs. You know what I do whenever I talk about Gavin Newskind? I say, look at the railroad. Austria has very, very flammable trees.

[Jordan Klepper]

Good Lord. I don't want to say anything, but if your flagpole erections last more than four hours, you probably want to see a doctor. Donald. Donald, Focus to the flag poles. No, wait. Get back to the war. I mean, war. He's got me all mixed up. Just someone ask him about the war.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Have Cubans answered questions about whether you are moving closer or you believe the US Is moving closer to striking Iranian nuclear facilities? Where's your mindset on that?

[Donald Trump]

I may do it. I may not do it. I mean, nobody knows what I'm gonna do.

[Jordan Klepper]

Great. Super helpful. Thanks, guy. That is the key to this whole thing. Nobody knows what he wants to do, including Donald Trump. He'd rather be doing home renovation projects than figuring out how to fix all his ups. And honestly, I agree. I think we should encourage him to spend all his time on landscaping projects as opposed to bringing America into another Middle east war. Frankly, I think a lot of people would be relieved by that decision, even. It might even give people. I don't want to say it, but it starts with an E. When we come back, I fight with Desi Lydic about sports. Don't go away. Welcome back to the Daily Show. I think I speak for everyone when I say politics drools and sports rules. For a full recap of the biggest stories in the world of jocks and straps, we turn to Sportswar.

[Desi Lydic]

Get ready for battle. It's time for Sports War, brought to you by gambling. Gambling. It's literally free money.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

What's up, sports pros and sports bras? I'm Desi Lydic.

[Jordan Klepper]

And I'm Jordan Klepper. This is sportswar, the show where we are legally not allowed to agree with each other.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

So if I say cheerleading is not a real sport, then I say, of.

[Jordan Klepper]

Course cheerleading is a sport. Why else would I be constantly watching it when I'm alone at home?

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Whatever keeps you indoors and away from people. Let's kick things off with our top story. Caitlin Clark has returned to the court from injury. And not a moment too soon for the wnba.

[Donald Trump]

It wasn't just the Indiana Fever that missed Caitlin Clark.

[Jordan Klepper]

The WNBA missed her.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

And badly Caitlin Clark effect. Since the WNBA star's injury, ticket prices have drastically dropped.

[Tucker Carlson]

WNBA ratings plummeted 55% league wide.

[Jordan Klepper]

Wow. So Caitlin Clark gets injured and you all just stop Supporting women's basketball. You people bailed on the WNBA quicker than Desi did on her fifth marriage. Look, fair weather fans make me sick. I, Jordan Klepper, champion of women, friend to the female Maya Angelou, lover and Susan B. Anthony, mega fan, am here to tell you there is plenty, I mean plenty of excitement in the WNBA besides Caitlin Clark.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Name one WNBA team.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay, I'll name three. The Cleveland Clams, Toledo Tampons, and the Boston Bushes. Go Bush.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Jordan, you idiot. Those are possibly correct. I don't know. I was bluffing. Regardless, it's great that Clark's absence gave fans a chance to watch cooler, less popular sports like, I don't know, Women's Cornhole, which I happen to have played professionally. In fact, people say I'm the Caitlin Clark of cornhole.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're the Caitlin Clark of cornhole? Who says that?

[Alex Pfeiffer]

You just did, you big dumb giraffe. Which brings us to our holy hot bed of the night. Will our ratings decline if Jordan Klepper gets injured by the hood of my car? Brought to you by gambling. Gambling? You can't spell degenerate without great staying.

[Jordan Klepper]

In the world of basketball. Did you know it's also played? And one former NBA star is making headlines in Puerto Rico by going a little nuts.

[DeMarcus Cousins]

Former Golden State Warrior DeMarcus Cousins was suspended for the rest of the season in Puerto Rico's basketball league after this heated exchange with a fan during a game, Cousins made an obscene gesture, exchanged words with a fan. The four time NBA All Star was ejected.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is awesome. He grabbed his crotch and wiped it on that fan's face. Oh, anyone can shake a player's hand, but not many get to taste a player's ball sack. You know, I just bought season tickets at the Puerto Rican Basketball League and I'll be watching every game courtside with my mouth wide open.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Jordan, you human glory hole, you couldn't be more wrong. DeMarcus Cousins should know how to act professionally during the game. But after the game, he should break into that fan's car and rub that tank stank all over his steering wheel. The guy will have pink eye before he leaves the parking lot.

[Jordan Klepper]

Wait, is that how I got.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Which brings us to tonight's Sack Attack bet of the week. How many CDs will DeMarcus cousins buy in his free time?

[Jordan Klepper]

Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on, hold on. What? CDs? CDs?

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Nu. These nuts have been brought to you by gambling. Gambling? Stack up and bet.

[Jordan Klepper]

I should have seen it coming. Moving on from a former pro To a current pro who just won't go away.

[DeMarcus Cousins]

After months of speculation.

[Donald Trump]

Looks like Aaron Rodgers, the former jets and packers quarterback, is going to the Pittsburgh Steelers.

[Jordan Klepper]

So this was the decision that was.

[Donald Trump]

Best for my soul.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Good for you, Aaron Rodgers. He listened to his soul, the one part of his body that can't get cte.

[Jordan Klepper]

Desi, Desi, Desi, Desi. Did you Botox your brain? Come on. Aaron Rodgers shouldn't be doing anything good for his soul. Everyone knows that bad souls equal great players. O.J. simpson, terrible soul, incredible player. Mother Teresa, great soul. Dog shit quarterback.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

You're just mad she wouldn't sleep with you.

[Jordan Klepper]

The one that got away.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

But luckily for the Steelers, Aaron Rodgers soul wasn't the only thing making headlines.

[Jordan Klepper]

Rodgers was at the Steelers mandatory minicamp yesterday. Noticeable difference compared to last season. Rodgers was rocking a wedding ring. And he did confirm that he's now married, although we don't know identity of his wife. Ooh, the man does a lot of ayahuasca. Are we sure he knows the identity of his wife? He could have married a ficus plant. Either way, you know it's true love because he found someone willing to live in Pittsburgh.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Jordan, we should not be celebrating this. Everyone knows football and marriage don't mix. O.J. simpson, great football player, terrible marriage. But what do I know? I've only been married 12 times.

[Jordan Klepper]

Which brings us to our say yes to the bet wager of the week. What eradicated disease did guests contract at Aaron Rodgers wedding? Brought to you by gambling. Gambling? He went to Jared. That's my bookie. And that's all the time we have for sportswar. Join us next week when we debate if hockey would be better if they played on pogo sticks. What?

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Of course not. They'd slip all over the ice.

[Jordan Klepper]

No, there's no ice. They're playing on a layer of pogo sticks.

[Alex Pfeiffer]

Oh, my God. That's the dumbest thing I ever think about it.

[Jordan Klepper]

They're just a layer of pogo sticks. Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is a Grammy award winning singer, songwriter, and frontman of the band the National. His new solo album is called Get Sunk. Please welcome Matt Berning.

[Desi Lydic]

Mat, welcome.

[Donald Trump]

Thank you.

[Jordan Klepper]

Matt. I love this new album. I truly do. And a thing that I noticed, I'm a Midwest boy. I'm from Michigan.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

And I know you're a Midwest boy from Cincinnati.

[Matt Berninger]

Yep.

[Jordan Klepper]

Is that right?

[Matt Berninger]

That's right.

[Jordan Klepper]

A lot of people in this world think the Midwest is anything that's not on the coast. First of all, screw Those people.

[Matt Berninger]

Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

But what I noticed within this album is you have very specific references to Indiana.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

And I think. I know that's not Ohio and I know that's not Michigan. To you. What does Indiana mean? Why is that making its way on this album?

[Matt Berninger]

I grew up on the west side of Cincinnati, which is right on the border of Indiana. And my uncle Jack had a farm, which is where I spent so many weekends and summers and Christmases and everything. He had a Christmas tree farm, originally a tobacco farm, and then switched it to Christmas trees when he found out that it caused cancer, not Christmas.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, good. Okay, good.

[Matt Berninger]

But yes.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I didn't want to have to fact check you on that one. It's still okay to do. Christmas just causes poverty, I believe.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah, yeah. So I spent a lot of time on that farm. So this record, I was really just kind of visiting that idea of like, what makes you you. You know, why did I end up like this with all my combination of neuroses and anxieties and stuff and so. And then also just trying to figure out, you know, like, where were those happy, happy, carefree times and just trying to connect with that. I wanted to make a record that was happy. It was positive and uplifting. It's kind of hard to do sometimes, especially now, and I don't know if I made a happy record, but it was revisiting that time and place made me understand a lot about myself, I think.

[Jordan Klepper]

So you're thinking about what makes you you. I mean, you are an interesting person in many ways, but the you of you has been a famous person for a long time. The you of you back in Cincinnati and Indiana, probably not as much. So what are you discovering about the mat of today versus the mat of 10 years ago?

[Matt Berninger]

I think a lot of the reason why I was right going back to think about that because, yeah, for about. I'd say for 10 years, I feel like I've been a little bit. Have become something, you know, through the. Through the national and the sort of brand of the sad, depressing, you know, borderline alcoholic college professor, you know, sort of.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's good work if you can get it.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah, yeah. And it fits. It fits. But it's also that has kind of turned into a. Its own character, you know, and so. And I. And I really was getting sick of that character.

[Jordan Klepper]

Really. Did you feel like it was a self fulfilling prophecy in that it was a little bit.

[Matt Berninger]

I mean, a little bit or you just. You just get. You get trapped in a. This is like. This is the way a guy like me behaves, you know, or whatever that is. And I think sometimes you really, everybody, you always want to, like, discover yourself and figure out who you are. And I think sometimes people do that and then get stuck in that. That label or that idea of themselves, and that's a trap. So I kind of felt myself trapped. I put myself in my own trap of who I was and what Matt Berninger is or whatever. I was a lead singer of the National. That's kind of all I was. So I wanted to undo that a little bit.

[Jordan Klepper]

So I sometimes feel like I'm trapped being me. How do I get out?

[Matt Berninger]

I don't know. I mean, the truth is, I went through a really long period of depression and stuff. You know, it was in the pandemic, and a lot of people did, but I went through a period where I didn't want to write songs, didn't want to get on stage anymore, because I felt that whole lifestyle, the touring and all that stuff had sort of turned me into somebody I didn't like anymore, you know? And so I think the depression was triggered by, well, then what do I do? You know, if I'm not going to be a lead singer of the Nationals, do I go back and be something, you know, graphic designer, which I used to be, or what do I do? And I didn't want to do that. So I was kind of stuck not knowing what to do, you know? So that caused a lot of depression. And so I think digging into all that, like, why am I so at such a low spot? You know? And I think it was. I had to sort of, you know, just burn all that down, the idea of who I was, and kind of slowly, slowly rebuild something. Something maybe more authentic. But I don't know if. Here I am. I don't know if this is authentic.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I'm not buying it.

[Matt Berninger]

No, I know.

[Donald Trump]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

I think this is total. This is total bullshit right here.

[Matt Berninger]

I know we have our makeup on.

[Jordan Klepper]

I know. This is enough. I don't. Yeah, we don't look this good.

[Matt Berninger]

You for the makeup.

[Jordan Klepper]

I was a goddamn mess. It was a ghost.

[Matt Berninger]

It's not real hair. That's not real.

[Jordan Klepper]

Thank you. I look great backstage, I would say. Thank you very much anyway. Yeah, I'm curious, too, a little bit about your process specifically. I heard you weren't writing on notebooks when you were crafting this album. Is that correct?

[Matt Berninger]

I, I. Yeah, notebooks. I used to fill up so many little notebooks, Moleskin notebooks. And always trying to get cool looking notebooks and writing in cafes and stuff, you know. But then all these I've got. I've had so many notebooks that were in plastic bins that were in. On shelves and I never gone back to it. And so I kind of stopped writing on notebooks. For a long time I was writing on my phone for. I mean a lot of people you can't. It's a really useful tool, but then you get stuck on your phone. So a lot of it was just to get the phone out of my hand. And I like baseballs. They feel great. I don't follow baseball, but I toss baseball all the time.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know what I'm saying?

[Matt Berninger]

My daughter and my dad and I used to. That's when my dad and I had our best conversations.

[Jordan Klepper]

Tossing baseball, just playing back and forth.

[Matt Berninger]

And that's what baseball means to me. And I was from Cincinnati, Big red machine and the whole 70s west side of Cincinnati, you know, Pete Rose was a hero. Yeah. And you know, not so much anymore for me for obvious reasons. And so all that stuff, like the whole identity of like what a west side Cincinnati kid I was and what I thought the world was and who my heroes were, all that changes, you know. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

So you'd put your songs onto these baseballs.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah, I forgot about talking about baseballs. So instead of like, I think I started doing it on an airplane and I usually have a baseball or two with me and.

[Jordan Klepper]

Wait, you were doing it on an airplane?

[Matt Berninger]

I started writing on an airplane.

[Jordan Klepper]

I imagine seeing you and most people are like, this crazy guy is scribbling some sort of manifesto out of baseball. No, he's an artist crafting the next great Grammy award winning album. Right. That's what we need to think. We have to have more empathy towards the things that we see.

[Matt Berninger]

Yeah. No, but yeah, the writing on the baseball things was. It just felt good because the weight of the baseball and it's just an easy thing. Thing to. I can lay on the couch and drink wine, smoke weed and write on the baseball. You know, it's like, it's just fun. And the phone is in the other room. And so it's a way. It's also the words, the words start to go up against each other and so it's just a trick to change my process, you know?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah.

[Matt Berninger]

I think process is the whole. The reason why it's all so fun, you know, like the making of stuff, the going out and promoting. I mean this is also fun too. Part of the process. But. But I think even the. I Wanted to change the way my brain normally puts words together. And so writing on whiteboards or with Sharpies or writing on. I mean, I write in books that I'm reading. I'll just write in between the lines instead of bringing a separate book. Because I'll be like, oh, I remember I wrote something great. That My copy of the Sun Also Rises. I know where that book is. As opposed to a. Just a notebook on a shelf. I can't find it, you know, so.

[Jordan Klepper]

Did I see you post as well? Are you rewriting the Great Gatsby? Is this what I just saw you post?

[Matt Berninger]

I'm not rewriting the Great Gatsby. I'm using only Fitzgerald's words in writing a different novel, kind of line by line. It's called the Great Sponge. Yeah. I'm only about three pages into it, but I'm actually really a. Attached to the characters. It's about a father and a daughter. It's not about the Great Gatsby at all, but it's only using his words.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah. Do you feel like you need that restriction to create?

[Matt Berninger]

It's just putting yourself in a corner helps you find a new crack. You know, it forces you to. It makes your brain go left instead of right sometimes. You know where you're so used to going. Right. So, yeah, you put yourself into a constraint of some kind is really. I find that really the baseball itself is like. It's. It's. You have to turn it and you have to go around the seams and then you run out of. You eventually run out of space. And I'm like, okay, well, that's. My songs have too many words anyway, you know, so it's like. It forces me, like, okay, that's all that stuff. And it's not really. It's all just random kind of just letting your mind go. And I'll go back and take the pieces off the baseball and I'll color, like, all that stuff. I'll highlight parts and put pins in it. So then I'll look at all the baseballs. I'll have a big bunch of baseballs. Like, all that red stuff. All those red stuff kind of goes together. And so that's how you know it's a collaging process.

[Jordan Klepper]

Is there ever a point where you're like, oh, shit, my second verse. My daughter's playing with it out in the yard. Oh, damn, just get it back in there.

[Matt Berninger]

And I also like not being precious about anything, like the notebooks or anything. I've lost so many notebooks. I've Lost so much of stuff over the time that you think, oh, that great stuff is there and, and losing everything is a really healthy thing to do because then you just start putting new seeds in the ground and different stuff grows.

[Jordan Klepper]

I love that, I love that you've talked about, you mentioned sort of being put into a category of like the sad dad, drunk professor, wonder boys category. I'm curious about. Like, you talked about how that audience, you found there's an audience both for this like, middle aged man music that's also found a kinship with Taylor Swift fans and a younger teenage female fan base. What is that connection?

[Matt Berninger]

No, no, it's a real, It's a pretty. I think it makes a lot of sense. I mean, the Taylor thing specifically is like. I mean, she writes very personal diary. Not always. Like, she writes all kinds of songs, but, but the personal, the real personal access do you have to her mind and her heart and all the confusing thoughts is why she's, why she is who she is. Right. And she's a masterful songwriter that connects with people. And I think I write very, I try to write pretty honest, emotionally murky, sometimes very ugly emotional stuff. And it's very similar. I think there's a real connection to the way she writes, the way she thinks about songs in the way I do. And she's been a fan for a long time. We've been fans for it. I met her 10 years ago. So that connection and what the work she's done with Erin was pretty organic and it made a lot of sense to all of us. And. Yeah, and I've got. My daughter's 16 and she loves, she really, really loves my writing, you know, and I think young people like the dark, complicated stuff, you know, and kids always like the stuff that's a little scary. The children's books, you know, where the Wild things are, all that stuff is a little bit. Because life is scary. And if somebody, if they're not, if the art or the books they're reading don't represent life, they represent. They don't buy it, you know. So, yeah, so I think teenagers do. I mean, I was a teenager when I discovered Tom Waits, you know, and Nick Cave and Joni Mitchell and Leonard Cohen. But these are people who write really directly and honestly and filled with, you know, all their flaws, all the flaws of their heart and soul. They put it right out there, you know. And so I think that's the connection, I think, which I really. That's why I think it's kind of. There's this connection between the national and the teen sort of thinking.

[Jordan Klepper]

I love that. I love that we're gonna hear a song from you. Inland Ocean. What do I need to know about Inland Ocean?

[Matt Berninger]

This is the first song, one of the first songs that ended up that made it to the. I wrote like 30 or 40 songs, but this one I wrote a long time ago, and I knew that it was gonna be the first song on whatever record I was gonna finish. I wrote it with Walter Martin of the Walkman and who's Here Tonight? And yeah, this one kind of sets up, I think, a good prologue sort of for the album. It talks about just that murky idea of middle America, and it sets up Indiana, and it's just a good first song.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, I'm excited to hear it. Before I let you go play this song, as a fan, I think this is a wonderful album.

[Matt Berninger]

Could.

[Jordan Klepper]

Would you mind signing My Notebook?

[Matt Berninger]

I would be happy to. Yeah. All right. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

Get Sunk is available now.

[Desi Lydic]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount.

[Donald Trump]

Plus.

[Desi Lydic]

This has been a Comedy Central podcast.

[Jordan Klepper]

This is an I heart podcast.