Trump and Musk Feud Goes Nuclear, Threats Fly, Kanye Calls For Ceasefire | Jonathan D. Cohen

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition Episode: Trump and Musk Feud Goes Nuclear, Threats Fly, Kanye Calls For Ceasefire | Jonathan D. Cohen
Host: Michael Kosta
Release Date: June 6, 2025
Duration: Approximately 35 minutes

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1. Introduction and Overview

In this episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition, host Michael Kosta delves into two major topics dominating the headlines: the escalating feud between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, and the concerning rise of sports gambling in America, explored through guest Jonathan D. Cohen, historian and author of Losing America's Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling. Additionally, the show touches upon the pervasive use of Artificial Intelligence (AI) in education.

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2. The Trump-Musk Feud: From Bromance to Battlefield

Timestamp: [02:38]

The episode kicks off with an in-depth discussion about the once-amicable relationship between former President Donald Trump and tech magnate Elon Musk, which has now deteriorated into a fierce public feud.

• Michael Kosta highlights the breakdown, stating, “After Elon stepped away from the White House a few days ago, he started to express some constructive criticism about Trump's so-called big beautiful bill, that it drastically increases the deficit, which clearly undercuts all the hard patriotic work Elon has done gutting funding for cancer research and starving children” ([04:10]).

• Elon Musk's criticism intensified with tweets urging, “a new spending bill should be drafted that doesn't massively grow the deficit and increase the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. Call your senator, call your congressman” ([04:25]).

• In response, Donald Trump posted on Truth Social, asserting, “Elon was wearing thin. I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted that he knew for months I was going to do” ([06:03]).

Michael Kosta humorously comments on the personal nature of the feud: “This isn't about policy anymore. This is getting personal... Elon, taking credit for winning the election is a little rude to the Democrats, isn't it?” ([06:21]).

The tension escalates further when Musk accuses Trump of being involved in “the Epstein Files,” a claim that sends shockwaves through their already tumultuous relationship ([06:51]).

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3. Impact on 'MAGA World' and Public Reaction

Timestamp: [08:00]

The fallout from the Trump-Musk rivalry is tearing the MAGA (Make America Great Again) community apart. Steve Bannon calls for Musk's deportation, while some Musk supporters ironically call for Trump's impeachment. Kanye West attempts to mediate, urging both parties to cease their public battles: “Please stop being messy on the Internet” ([09:15]).

Grace Kuhlenschmidt, reporting from Washington, provides additional insights into the Republican perspective:

• Grace explains that some Republicans believe Trump and Musk might be collaborating to strategically undermine the bill, suggesting they are playing “4D chess” ([11:09]).

• However, Michael Kosta counters, emphasizing the personal animosity between the two: “Trump and Elon are not secretly working together. Republicans just don't want to admit that their two leaders are split over Trump's signature legislation” ([12:08]).

The segment ends with Grace elaborating on humorous yet exaggerated scenarios of political maneuvers, highlighting the absurdity of the ongoing feud ([13:00]).

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4. The Rise of AI in Education: Boon or Bane?

Timestamp: [14:37]

Transitioning from politics to education, the show addresses the growing reliance on AI among college students and educators.

• Lewis Black introduces the segment with a satirical take on college graduates entering adulthood, emphasizing the dependency on AI tools like ChatGPT: “Students use it to take notes during class, devise study guides, practice tests, summarize novels and textbooks, draft their essays” ([15:24]).

• A notable quote from Lewis Black criticizes the overuse of AI: “That's what you're experimenting with in college, ChatGPT. You should be doing fun experiments like, how much LSD can you take before you forget your name?” ([15:42]).

• Tom Yamas shares a personal anecdote about being reprimanded by a professor for using AI, highlighting the tension between traditional teaching methods and technological advancements: “If you saw my video yesterday, you know, I got called in at my professor's office for using AI” ([16:47]).

The segment underscores the dual-edged nature of AI in education—while it offers convenience, it also raises concerns about academic integrity and the development of critical thinking skills.

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5. Guest Segment: Jonathan D. Cohen on Sports Gambling

Timestamp: [21:45]

The latter half of the episode features an interview with Jonathan D. Cohen, author of Losing America's Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling. Cohen discusses the rapid expansion of sports betting in the United States and its societal implications.

• Michael Kosta asks why Cohen chose to write about sports gambling at this particular time, to which Cohen responds by labeling it a public health crisis, particularly affecting young men who are falling into gambling addictions: “It's a public health crisis where young men in particular are losing more money than they can afford” ([23:04]).

• Cohen traces the legalization of sports betting back to the 2018 Supreme Court decision overturning the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection Act (PASPA) ([23:04]). This ruling allowed states to legalize sports gambling, leading to rapid expansion across the country.

• The discussion highlights how companies like FanDuel and DraftKings capitalized on this change, becoming multibillion-dollar enterprises almost overnight: “They already had every American sports bettors' Social Security number, phone number, they were trusted with credit card deposits, name recognition, which is what allowed. The Supreme Court decision comes down, Boom. They’re multibillion-dollar companies overnight” ([24:16]).

• Cohen critiques the allocation of gambling revenues, citing skepticism about whether funds designated for public goods like water actually benefit those causes: “It's difficult to say no over and over and over again” ([30:29]).

• The conversation delves into the addictive nature of modern sports betting apps, which are designed to mimic slot machines and roulette wheels, providing constant betting opportunities and dopamine hits: “The gambler isn't necessarily addicted to they won or they lost. They're addicted to the action” ([29:51]).

• Cohen proposes several solutions, including reducing the number of betting options to minimize the triggers for addiction and implementing friction mechanisms such as mandatory waiting periods before funds can be used for gambling: “Adding friction. I think when you deposit money into your account, you should have to, like, wait 12 to 24 hours until you gamble with it” ([32:37]).

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6. Conclusion and Call to Action

The episode wraps up with a light-hearted exchange, a brief moment of Zen, and a reminder to listeners to check out Jonathan D. Cohen's book, Losing America's Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling, available now. The host emphasizes the importance of addressing the issues raised and encourages proactive measures to mitigate the negative impacts of both political rivalries and the proliferation of AI and sports gambling.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Elon Musk: “A new spending bill should be drafted that doesn't massively grow the deficit and increase the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. Call your senator, call your congressman.” ([04:25])

• Donald Trump: “Elon was wearing thin. I asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted that he knew for months I was going to do.” ([06:03])

• Kanye West: “Please stop being messy on the Internet.” ([10:00])

• Lewis Black: “That's what you're experimenting with in college, ChatGPT. You should be doing fun experiments like, how much LSD can you take before you forget your name?” ([15:42])

• Jonathan D. Cohen: “It's a public health crisis where young men in particular are losing more money than they can afford.” ([23:04])

---

Key Takeaways:

1. Political Feuds Impact Public Discourse: The personal vendetta between Trump and Musk not only affects their public images but also creates divisions within their respective supporter bases.

2. AI in Education Raises Concerns: While AI tools like ChatGPT offer benefits in educational settings, they also pose challenges related to academic integrity and the development of essential skills.

3. Sports Gambling as a Public Health Issue: The rapid legalization and expansion of sports betting in the U.S. have led to significant societal issues, including rising gambling addictions and financial hardships among vulnerable populations.

4. Call for Regulation and Awareness: Both segments underline the need for better regulations and increased awareness to address the negative consequences of technological advancements and policy decisions.

---

This episode of The Daily Show: Ears Edition provides a comprehensive look into pressing contemporary issues, blending humor with insightful analysis to engage listeners and encourage thoughtful consideration of the topics discussed.

Transcript

[Announcer]

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[Michael Kosta]

This episode is brought to you by WhatsApp. Your personal messaging is also your personal space. Completely private. That's why it's nice to know that on WhatsApp no one can see or hear your personal messages. So the calls with your mom, chats about the latest work, drama, late night voice messages and all those photos and videos of your dog. Every personal message stays private because no one, not even WhatsApp can see or hear your personal messages. WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[Grace Kuhlenschmidt]

Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treatment, start prioritizing their financial education and future. Today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart NBC Nightly News Legacy isn't.

[Michael Kosta]

Handed down or NBC News. I'm Tom Brokaw. We hope to see you back here. I'm Lester Holt. It's carried forward. Tom Yamatz is there for us. Firefighters are still working around the clock. As the world changes, we look for what endures. We are coming on the air with breaking news. Right now we look for a constant and from one era to the next, trust is the anchor for NBC night.

[Lewis Black]

Tomorrow, Nightly News.

[Michael Kosta]

I'm Tom Yamas. A new chapter begins. NBC Nightly News with Tom Yamas. Evenings on NBC. You're listening to Comedy Central from the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Michael Costa. Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm Michael Kosta. We have so much to talk about tonight. Woo hoo. Because one simple 1100 page piece of legislation is tearing America's favorite friendship apart. So let's get right into it with our ongoing coverage of the big beautiful bill. Oh, I sleep with that.

[Announcer]

I wrap it around.

[Michael Kosta]

I kiss it at night. For a few days now, there's been a simmering tension between Donald Trump and Elon Musk, the leader of the free world and the breeder of the free world. But today, the conflict has escalated into a full blown World War douche. Breaking news, a very public breakup between the richest man in the world, Elon Musk, and arguably the most powerful man, President Donald Trump. A fascinating and blistering war of words.

[Announcer]

It is getting Messier. Literally by the minute. Well, it's crashing and burning right now.

[Michael Kosta]

The bromance is over. Oh, my God, I can't believe it. The thing that was always gonna happen is now happening, and you get to be a part of it. I thought these two billionaires with the world's biggest egos would work it out. Amic. All right, let's take a step back and figure out how this completely predictable thing predictably unfolded. After Elon stepped away from the White House a few days ago, he started to express some constructive criticism about Trump's so called big beautiful bill, that it drastically increases the deficit, which clearly undercuts all the hard patriotic work Elon has done gutting funding for cancer research and starving children. And at first it was just quiet complaining. But yesterday, Elon took his campaign up a notch. Elon Musk, who just yesterday called it an abomination and doubled down on that today. In a string of posts, one reads, a new spending bill should be drafted that doesn't massively grow the deficit and increase the debt ceiling by $5 trillion. In another, he writes, call your senator, call your congressman.

[Tom Yamas]

Bankrupting America is not okay. Kill the bill.

[Michael Kosta]

Another simply shows a movie poster for.

[Tom Yamas]

The Quentin Tarantino movie. Kill Bill.

[Michael Kosta]

Right, Kill Bill. I guess Elon is a fan of Tarantino movies, although not the one where all the Nazis die at the end. That one makes him sad. Now, Trump had been uncharacteristically reserved about his good friend turning against his bill. And even today, when he was asked about it, you could tell that he was treading lightly. I've always liked Elon, and it's always very surprised. Elon and I had a great relationship. I don't know if we're well anymore. I was surprised, but I'm very disappointed in Elon. I've helped Elon a lot. Yeah, Yeah. I mean, this is just like when your mom catches you jerking off to her JC catalog. Trump's not mad, but he is disappointed. But this was an interesting response because for every other ex staffer who speaks out against Trump, he's like this loser piece of shit, low life dirtbag. I wish I'd fired him sooner. And his wife. But when it came to Elon, he was more subdued. And I think that's because Trump could tell that deep down inside, Elon has $400 billion. But if Trump was hoping to handle the situation delicately, it didn't seem to work.

[Tom Yamas]

And Elon Musk is wasting no time pushing back. He said, without me, Trump would have lost the election. Democrats would control the House and Republicans.

[Michael Kosta]

Would be 5149 in the Senate.

[Tom Yamas]

He went on to say, such ingratitude.

[Michael Kosta]

Woo. All right. Woo. This isn't about policy anymore. This is getting personal. This is Elon saying, I made you, and like everything else I make, I can blow you up. And by the way, Elon, taking credit for winning the election is a little rude to the Democrats, isn't it? I mean, you're totally erasing all the work they did to blow the election. But those tweets triggered Trump. He doesn't mind if you criticize his policies or ideas or family or children. He doesn't give a shit about any of that. But the one thing you cannot do is suggest that Trump didn't win something on his own. He thinks he won everything on his own. He. Even the things he lost. So then Trump started swinging back.

[Tom Yamas]

Let me read a little bit of what Donald Trump posted on Truth Social. He says Elon was wearing thin. He asked him to leave. I took away his EV mandate that forced everyone to buy electric cars that nobody else wanted that he knew for months I was going to do, and he just went crazy.

[Michael Kosta]

That's not fair. Elon Musk didn't just go crazy. He's been crazy for a long. And maybe he's right. What kind of idiot would be into Elon's cars? I love Tesla. Not anymore. And Trump didn't just leave it there. He also threw in a threat, saying, if this African junkie wants to cut the deficit, I know where to start.

[Tom Yamas]

Then he says the easiest way to save money in our budget, billions and billions of dollars, is to terminate Elon's government subsidies and contracts. I was always surprised that Biden didn't do it.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, shit. Elon's government contracts can't be worth that much, can they? Oh, it's $6.3 billion last year. Elon, you idiot. This is why you always sign a prenup, by the way. Can we just point out how crazy 2025 is? Most people can't afford to eat eggs anymore. Meanwhile, these two billionaires are attacking each other from different social media platforms that they each own. Maybe we should eat the rich. But Trump. But Trump. Elon, let's calm down, all right? Things are getting a little too heated at this point. We can still walk away from this. Let's not say something we can never take back. Right? Right. Right. Elon Musk tweeting within the past one minute. Time to drop the really big bomb. Ealdonaldtrump is in the Epstein Files. That's the real reason they have not been made public. Have a nice day. Djt, exclamation. America, tonight, we are a nation at war. Look, it's not a big surprise that Trump might be in the Epstein files. We've seen them party together. Of course Trump is in the Epstein files. This is like saying, guys, there are aliens in the X Files. Yeah, obviously. But for his own best friend, sugar daddy, to say this, that is huge. Although I like that he ends it with, have a nice day. I don't know if Trump is, but I sure am. But as you can imagine, this whole feud is tearing Maga world apart. Steve Bannon called for Musk to be deported. Some Musk fans called for Trump to be impeached, to which Musk replied, yes. But some more sober minds are calling for a ceasefire. Kanye west reacting to the feud today, posting, rose, please. No. We love you both so much. Look, you know you've gone too far when Kanye west is saying, please stop being messy on the Internet. Meanwhile, some people in Maga world are so freaked out by this breakup that they've chosen to respond in denial. I think Trump might be working in tandem with Elon here to tank his own bill in a 4D chess move. Oh, okay, 4D chess. No. @ best, it's Jenga between two kids who immediately knock the tower over and start whipping blocks at each other. Now, for more on the fallout between Trump and Elon, we go live to Washington with Grace Kuhlenschmidt. Grace. Boy, Grace, the way these Trump and Elon fanboys are handling their breakups seems kind of sad.

[Announcer]

Actually, Michael, you're kind of sad and stupid. I've been talking to a lot of Republicans, and it's obvious that Trump and elon are playing 4D chess, maybe even 5D chess. And all of these Ds are rock hard.

[Michael Kosta]

Grace, Grace. Those Republicans are kidding themselves. Elon is trying to kiss. Kill Donald Trump's bill.

[Announcer]

Yeah, so that they can pass an even better bill, a bill that they wrote together. Classic 6D chess move. It's like, Jesus, you kill him, then he comes back even more powerful with washboard abs and one of those haircuts that TikTok guys have.

[Michael Kosta]

Grace, Grace, what the are you talking about?

[Announcer]

It's kind of like short on the side, but super fluffy up top.

[Michael Kosta]

No, no, no, I don't. That's not what I mean. Trump. Trump and Elon are not secretly working together. Republicans just don't want to admit that their two leaders are split over Trump's signature legislation.

[Announcer]

Yeah, maybe. Maybe the bill is going to die in the Senate. Maybe Republicans can't get the support it needs. And Chuck Schumer walks out to cast the deciding vote. And then he reaches for his neck and he pulls his face off. It's Elon Musk in a impossible mask.

[Michael Kosta]

Shit.

[Announcer]

He votes to pass the bill. Democrats race to stop him. But then Donald Trump flies into the room on the wing of his Qatari jet and starts karate boxing. He does his own stunts. Check out the whole franchise on Paramount.

[Michael Kosta]

Grace. Grace, stop it. No, this is not an action thriller. Musk called Trump a pedophile. Republicans have to accept that this alliance has collapsed.

[Announcer]

No. Your parents are getting divorced.

[Michael Kosta]

What?

[Announcer]

Michael, Imagine a chessboard in seven dimensions.

[Michael Kosta]

What are the seven dimensions?

[Announcer]

Time, space, Medicaid, gravity, Starlink, thumb.

[Michael Kosta]

Grace. Grace. Grace. It just seems like they're both trying to get checkmate.

[Announcer]

What is checkmate?

[Michael Kosta]

Checkmate. Like chess?

[Announcer]

I'm unfamiliar.

[Michael Kosta]

Grace, we've been talking about this the whole time.

[Announcer]

I'm more of a twister girl.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, Grace. Kuhl and Schmidt, everybody. When we come back, Lewis Black will be joining me on the show. Don't go away. Checkmate.

[Grace Kuhlenschmidt]

This message comes from Greenlight. Ready to start talking to your kids about financial literacy? Meet Greenlight, the debit card and money app that teaches kids and teens how to earn, save, spend wisely and invest. With your guardrails in place, with Greenlight, you can send money to kids quickly, set up chores, automate allowance, and keep an eye on what your kids are spending with real time notifications. Join millions of parents and kids building healthy financial habits together on Greenlight. Get started risk [e-mail] iheart.

[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. When a news story falls through the cracks, Lewis Black catches it for a segment we call Back in Black.

[Lewis Black]

Right now, college students across the country are graduating and getting ready to enter the glorious, psychotic nightmare that is adult life. Welcome, kids. You'll need two things. A positive mental attitude and a cyanide capsule in your molar for when the shit hits the fan. But that's not the only advice you'll need. Because thanks to AI, you newly minted graduates probably don't know shit.

[Announcer]

A growing number of college students are reportedly turning to artificial intelligence for help with their coursework. Students use it taking notes during class, devising study guides, practicing tests, summarizing novels and textbooks, drafting their essays.

[Grace Kuhlenschmidt]

How many of your peers do you think use AI?

[Michael Kosta]

Like everybody. Probably like 95%.

[Tom Yamas]

Everybody that I've talked to has at.

[Michael Kosta]

Least experimented with it.

[Lewis Black]

Are you kidding me? That's what you're experimenting with in college, ChatGPT. You should be doing fun experiments like, how much LSD can you take before you forget your name? Take it from me, Dua Lipa. And it's tragic that AI is robbing these kids of a proper college education. I mean, what are we gonna do if a student like Barron Trump isn't using his full cognitive ability? The only thing AI should be telling that Sasquatch in a suit is be sure, you freak. You're blocking the goddamn sun. Now, it's bad enough that students are using AI to cheat on everything they're doing. What's even worse is that they're bragging about it.

[Tom Yamas]

If you saw my video yesterday, you.

[Michael Kosta]

Know, I got called in at my.

[Tom Yamas]

Professor'S office for using AI. But today's a new professor and a new exam, so we're still going to be ripping AI for the whole test. Another exam in the bag, Another hundred.

[Michael Kosta]

Again.

[Announcer]

The senior year of high school, we got assigned this ginormous essay that we had to do, and I was like, bro, there is no way that I'm writing this. So I copy and pasted the prompt into ChatGPT, added my sources, and made them write the essay, and then I got an F on the assignment, and then I failed the class. So, moral of the story, you're going to fail all your classes if you use ChatGPT, so just don't.

[Lewis Black]

Oh, what are you doing to your eye, huh? Can ChatGPT please tell that woman to keep her cornea out of my face? So AI is smart enough to help the kids cheat, but not smart enough to tell them to shut the up about it. And you'd think with all these kids admitting to using AI, their professors would be furious.

[Announcer]

New reporting shows a growing number of instructors using artificial intelligence tools. Professors told the New York times that using ChatGPT saves time, helps ease large workloads, and serve as teaching assistants.

[Michael Kosta]

One professor at Harvard is trying to use AI for his students. And to their advantage, we recreated the.

[Tom Yamas]

Way that we would teach in the.

[Michael Kosta]

Classroom with the AI tutor.

[Lewis Black]

Come on, professors. If you replace your teaching assistant with AI, then who are you going to leave your wife for? And if you're not using your brain as a professor, what is your job? You're basically a scarf model with a drinking problem. And Harvard professors using AI is extra insulting. You're the top school in the country. Why did your students even bother paying an Asian kid to take their sat? So AI is making everyone lazy. Even school administrators are using it.

[Michael Kosta]

All right, at first glance, this may.

[Tom Yamas]

Look like a regular old graduation ceremony.

[Michael Kosta]

But take a closer look.

[Announcer]

Instead of a proud teacher or a dean reading off their name, shaking their hands, these accomplished graduates scanned a QR code on their phones. And then AI read their names aloud.

[Michael Kosta]

Kuya Gomez. Eiko Alvarez.

[Lewis Black]

What the is this? Are these kids graduating college or boarding a plane at LaGuardia? Oh, a QR code scanner. What a personal touch. Who doesn't like being treated with the same dignity as a head of lettuce at Whole Foods? So there's barely anybody left who isn't even using AI. And even when they don't, they're getting punished for it.

[Announcer]

Students across the country have been wrongly accused of AI cheating. With his scholarship on the line, an AI detection tool incorrectly flagged Joe Rivera.

[Tom Yamas]

I get an email three days later saying, hey, you've been flagged for plagiarism. Specifically ChatGPT. And for that, you need a contestus or you take a zero and you fail the class.

[Announcer]

His professor, after a closer look, confirmed he did not cheat.

[Lewis Black]

Suck on that, nerd. That'll teach you for trying to actually learn something. And ladies and gentlemen, that's the state of education in 2025. Students are using AI to do their work, teachers are using AI to do their work, and any students who aren't using AI are being punished. So let me put this in a way you kids can understand.

[Michael Kosta]

You Micha.

[Lewis Black]

Lewis, whack everyone.

[Michael Kosta]

We come back. Dr. D. Cohen was on the show. Don't go away.

[Grace Kuhlenschmidt]

Get this. Adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat, start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart.

[Michael Kosta]

Welcome back to Daily Show. My guest tonight is a historian and author whose new book, this book is called Losing America's Reckless Bet on Sports Gambling. Please welcome Jonathan D. Cohen, huge fan of America's Reckless bet on Sports Gambling. The best your book takes on modern sports betting. But before we get into that tonight, do you think Obie Toppin's gonna get four and a half rebounds and game one of the NFL?

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. This segment brought to you by FanDuel right.

[Michael Kosta]

Why now? Why this book right now?

[Tom Yamas]

I mean, I think we're at a point of what I would call a public health crisis where young men in particular are losing more money than they can afford and states are basically not even getting that much money for it. And the consequences are being felt again by primarily young men who are again either losing more money than they can afford or in worst cases, developing full blown gambling addictions and thoughts of suicide.

[Michael Kosta]

How did we get here? Because America's had a long history of betting and gambling, but this seems like we've taken on a whole new level.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. So here, here we got in. So in 1992, the sports leagues went to Congress and asked for what they get the passage of the Professional and Amateur Sports Protection act.

[Michael Kosta]

Paspa.

[Tom Yamas]

Paspa. Which effectively. Which did in fact blocked states from legalizing sports gambling. Okay, fine. And then in 2018, the Supreme Court, on the basis of states rights, which is of course a really cool doctrine that's never caused any problems before. On the basis of states rights. On the basis of states rights basically ruled, passed by unconstitutional and says states are allowed to legalize sports gambling if they want to.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. And then that's kind of when the floodgates opened.

[Tom Yamas]

And so now we have 38, soon to be, this year, 39 states and Washington, D.C. with sports gambling and 30 with gambling on your cell phone.

[Michael Kosta]

Some states did it very quickly. New Jersey was given a year to manage it and that up.

[Tom Yamas]

It's New Jersey, it's New Jersey.

[Michael Kosta]

Right. I think Delaware did it. In your book, you said they did it in like six weeks. New Jersey gets a year. They still, I still can't figure it out. Talk a little bit about fantasy sports, talk a little bit about the gateway drug, fill out your bracket. Seems innocuous, seems harmless. But in some ways did that help us get here?

[Tom Yamas]

Right. It's not gambling, but it's not not gambling. And sort of legally, if there was this whole states rights argument, that is what got us here. But culturally, the reason that within six weeks we have people lining up ready to bet or waiting to bet on their phone is that you're already acclimated to leveraging predictions to make money with something like fantasy sports or leveraging college basketball. And then, not to mention, you may remember in 2014, 2015, FanDuel and DraftKings took off not as sports betting companies, but as daily fantasy sports companies. And lo and behold, come the Supreme Court decision, they already had every American sports bettors like Social Security number, phone number, they were Trusted with credit card deposits, name recognition, which is what allowed. The Supreme Court decision comes down, Boom. They're multibillion dollar companies overnight.

[Michael Kosta]

The state of Colorado says that the revenue created through gambling goes towards the water. The water. There's other initiatives. Is this bullshit? Does this help me place a bet? This is for the water. Hey, I want my kids to have clean water. Let's bet that.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. You know what really helps is it helps. It helps the lawmakers sleep at night because it helps them justify why they've unleashed this public health crisis in the name of tax free government revenue, which has always been sort of the bottom line for lawmakers when it comes to the expansion of gambling.

[Michael Kosta]

But is it not going to water and helping water?

[Tom Yamas]

It is going to water, but like calling it. It's not even golden goose. It's like a bronze. It's like a copper goose. It's like when you look at how much injured goose. Yeah. It's like how much money. How much money is sort of promised or at least is imagined by the. And then how much actually comes in. Because sports betting is just such a low margin business for the state.

[Michael Kosta]

I remember in Michigan, where I'm from, the lottery would go to education. There was always these ads like buy your ticket, help the schools. And I remember I was 11 years old and I would say, maybe we should just fund the schools. Maybe I'm a hero. I'm the hero here. I'm the hero here. Maybe Colorado should just fund the money without having to.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, but that would be too hard.

[Michael Kosta]

That would be too hard.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

How many people are doing this?

[Tom Yamas]

Okay, so with the caveat that Texas and California, the two most populous states, don't have legal sports betting yet.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Tom Yamas]

The estimates are that 20 to 40% of American adults have legally bet within the last five to seven years.

[Michael Kosta]

Clap your hands if you've set a bet in the last year. That guy looks like he's lost a lot of. One thing that I found fascinating in the book that I learned was that a small amount of gamblers actually attribute to the most amount of revenue. So most of us are gambling. 60% or something equal 1% of revenue.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

Is that good? Is that bad?

[Tom Yamas]

It's good for the 60% of people who contribute 1% of revenue.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Tom Yamas]

It's bad for the 82% of bettors on the NFL who. Or excuse me, the 3% of betters on the NFL who amount to 82% of the revenue.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Tom Yamas]

And so some of those people, sure, they're really, really Rich like you, and they're gambling millions of dollars because. Yeah, but a lot of the people are like, kind of like the guys I profile in the book who are like, gambling their rent money and are just over their skis or they've developed an addiction of some kind and they. And they should not be betting as much as they are.

[Michael Kosta]

The NFL kind of hides behind this. This is good for the fan experience. Yeah. Talk a little bit about how the NFL, which was adamantly against gambling, but man, has that changed.

[Tom Yamas]

Right. And so for decades, literally decades, the NFL used gambling as a punching bag. Whatever problem the NFL had at the peak of the concussion crisis, Roger Goodell says that gambling is the number one threat to the integrity of football, because, of course, it's not concussion.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, he may have been concussed.

[Tom Yamas]

Right. But it's sort of a punching bag. You can trust our politics product not just because, like, America is football and football's America or whatever, but, like, because we hate gambling so much. That's why you can trust our product. And then May 14, 2018, 10:01am when sports gambling is going to be legal, lo and behold, we need to give gambling as tight a bear hug as possible and extract every last dollar out of the gambling economy so that we can monitor it and so that we can keep our players safe and so that we can keep our game safe. Oh, and we can make billions of dollars from it.

[Michael Kosta]

I mean, the ads, it's incessant, it's nonstop. What else are the apps doing to kind of prey on us or, you know, what other ways is this industry attacking us?

[Tom Yamas]

Right. So if you imagine the complaints all the time now about social media and the endless scroll, for example, and the sportsbooks apps basically mimic the endless scroll where when we legalized this in 2018, we were probably imagining, hey, I'm going to bet on the Knicks over or whatever, I'm probably gonna lose. Cause it's the Knicks, but I'm gonna bet on the Knicks over or whatever.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, they lost a lot of money.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's normal. Okay. Like, I'm gonna bet on a team to win the game. Okay. That's normal. But these days, you can bet on, like, Malaysian women's doubles badminton.

[Michael Kosta]

Correct.

[Tom Yamas]

Because there's obviously a huge black market for Malaysian women's doubles badminton, and we need to get those gamblers who are gambling illegally onto our apps. So this endless stream of betting options, you can bet on, like, the speed of the next pitch. You're a tennis guy, you can Bet on, like, whether the next tennis serve will be an ace. The goal is to mimic the slot machine phenomenon or the roulette wheel phenomenon, where just constant action. You finish your roll. Okay, let's just do another one. And there's just constant. Constant sources of action rather than having to wait three hours for your bet to materialize.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, that. That was something that really resonated with me from the book. It's that the gambler isn't necessarily addicted to they won or they lost. They're addicted to the action.

[Lewis Black]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

They're addicted to the feeling of will they win or lose. And that never ends.

[Tom Yamas]

And.

[Michael Kosta]

And it also makes a really shitty basketball game exciting all of a sudden.

[Tom Yamas]

Right. And every five minutes, you can bet on. Not even every five minutes. Every five seconds, you can bet on something new, and you can get that feeling, that dopamine hit that you get when the roulette wheel is spinning.

[Michael Kosta]

I personally don't naturally provide empathy for a gambling app. I go, come on, man, stop. Stop doing this. You're up your life. But explain to me some of the things you say in the book about how it might not be that simple and how you call it a public health crisis. Why is that?

[Tom Yamas]

Well, maybe you go to heroin addicts and you tell them to stop f. Ing up your life, too. And then for some reason, it's easier.

[Michael Kosta]

For me with drug and alcohol addiction, to sympathize or just go like, it's just one little drink. I can see how it can escalate. But. But some of the things you outline, I mean, the apps know when you deposit money into your bank and then they email you. I mean, it starts to really feel like it's tough to say no over and over and over again.

[Tom Yamas]

Right. And so just to your point, your first question, the gambling actually is a lot, like, more like drugs and alcohol than you think. The American Psychiatric association has it categorized as official gambling addiction, as an official addictive behavior, because it is not like something like sex addiction. That's like a disorder, but it doesn't affect your brain chemistry. Gambling literally affects your brain chemistry and changes your dopamine pathways. So someone who's addicted to gambling isn't like, choosing. You can't just tell them to stop. They are not choosing to gamble. They're in the same way. You can be addicted to a drug. You can be, like, chemically addicted to.

[Michael Kosta]

Gambling, but it's right on our phone, which we also use for everything.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah, but states rights.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. What are some of the solutions? What can we do here.

[Tom Yamas]

So I would say there's two categories.

[Michael Kosta]

Of solutions, because you're not against sports betting.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. I bet on Danish handball like an hour ago just to show.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, and you know, one of the examples, you. And you really do a wonderful job of highlighting some individuals that really put themselves in difficult life problems because of gambling, one of which needs the action in the middle of the night. So starts gambling on minor league British darts.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. Which you're a huge fan of.

[Michael Kosta]

A huge fan of. So it's funny, it's humorous. Until you think, no, you want action. If you're an American, there's no sports happening middle of the night. But there is over there, and that's. It's terribly dangerous.

[Tom Yamas]

So this is one of the easy solution. For example, get rid of these insane sports that literally only someone with a gambling addiction would ever possibly think to bet on.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Tom Yamas]

Is what in couple that with all sorts of other changes to the app. Getting rid of the endless scroll, getting rid of some of these live bets, adding friction. I think when you deposit money into your account, you should have to, like, wait 12 to 24 hours until you gamble with it.

[Michael Kosta]

Yes.

[Tom Yamas]

Problem of loss chasing where you lose your bet. I'm so mad. Let me just put another $100 in. Oh, I'm so mad, I'm gonna put $200 in. And all of a sudden, like, $15,000 later, you wake up and you're like, what the hell just happened to me?

[Michael Kosta]

Slow it down.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah. Friction.

[Michael Kosta]

Slow it down.

[Tom Yamas]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

It's a fascinating book. I think this is such an interesting topic that it's one of those things that America just does so terribly that we just accept and adopt way too quickly, and then we hustle back to try to fix it. And your book makes a good argument that we need to start trying to fix it right now.

[Tom Yamas]

That phenomenon that you described of needing to like. Of like unleashing something and then, oh, lo and behold, we mess it up. That was basically why I wrote the book. And that's why I think parents, for example, of young kids, like, younger than you think, need to, like, make their kids aware of gambling and gambling addiction and that they can't have these encounters on their own. And then all of a sudden, they go from video games to sports betting to some sort of gambling problem.

[Michael Kosta]

Great, great. It's a great book. Thank you for being here so much. Losing Big is available now. Thanks for decoing. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back after this. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's our show for the night. And here it is, your moment of Zen. I'll be honest, I think you're he misses the place. I think he got out there and all of a sudden he wasn't in this beautiful Oval Office. He's not the first. People leave my administration and they love us and then at some point they miss it so badly and some of them embrace it and some of them actually become hostile. I don't know what it is. It's sort of Trump derangement syndrome, I guess they call it. Explore more shows from the Daily Show Podcast Universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount plus Paramount podcasts.

[Grace Kuhlenschmidt]

Get this adults with financial literacy skills have 82% more wealth than those who don't. From swimming lessons to piano classes, us parents invest in so many things to enrich our kids lives. But are we investing in their future financial success? With Greenlight, you can teach your kids financial literacy skills like earning, saving and investing. And this investment costs less than that. After school treat start prioritizing their financial education and future today with a risk free [e-mail] iheart greenlight.com iheart this is an iheart podcast.