Trump in Epstein Files "a Million Times" & Lutnick Admits Lunch with Epstein | Tim Blake Nelson

Summary

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Podcast Summary: The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: Trump in Epstein Files "a Million Times" & Lutnick Admits Lunch with Epstein | Tim Blake Nelson
Date: February 11, 2026
Host: Jordan Klepper
Guest: Tim Blake Nelson

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Episode Overview

This episode, hosted by Jordan Klepper with appearances by Desi Lydic, Ronny Chieng, and guest Tim Blake Nelson, delivers a satirical breakdown of the latest headlines, notably the explosive new details from the Epstein files and their surprising connections—to public figures, academia, and yes, even the world of paleontology. The latter half of the episode features an insightful and entertaining interview with actor/author Tim Blake Nelson, discussing his new novel "Superhero" and the uniquely American phenomenon of superhero cinema.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Latest Revelations from the Epstein Files

(00:10–14:12)

• Congress Access to Unredacted Files

  • Members of Congress now have access to the unredacted Epstein files.
  • Jamie Raskin's Remark: Trump’s name reportedly appears “more than a million times.”
    • "Holy shit. A million times. There's not even that many references to Hamlet in the play Hamlet." (Jordan Klepper, 02:25)
    • Satirical suggestion: Rename the documents "The Trump Files featuring Jeffrey Epstein."
  • Mockery of the effort needed to redact so many Trump mentions.

• Howard Lutnick’s Contradictory Testimony

  • Commerce Secretary Howard Lutnick claimed he only met Epstein once and found him “gross,” only to admit under Senate questioning he later lunched with Epstein on his private island in 2012.
    • His defense: He was with his wife, four children, and nannies.
    • "My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies... I left with all my kids, okay?" (Howard Lutnick, paraphrased, 06:20–07:15)
    • Klepper skewers Lutnick’s justification for returning to Epstein’s island after denouncing him:
      • "Isn't the excuse you think it is. Good God damn, I hate to ask it. I hate it. Howard. I mean, come on. What happened on that island?" (Jordan Klepper, 06:25)

• Jurassic Park Paleontologist Named in Files

  • Jack Horner, inspiration for "Jurassic Park," is revealed to have visited Epstein's New Mexico ranch, thanking “Epstein and the girls” in a 2012 email.
    • "I hope it was just fossils because it would be so sad if we can't even trust paleontologists not to be pedophiles now." (Jordan Klepper, 08:04)
  • Further weirdness: RFK Jr., current Health and Human Services Secretary, also traveled with Epstein, Ghislaine Maxwell, and a paleontologist on a fossil dig in North Dakota.
    • "That is probably the most RFK way you could be in the Epstein files. RFK is such a weird guy. I actually do believe he would have called Epstein and said, I don't want to come to this next party, but call me if you want to dig up dino bones." (Jordan Klepper, 09:12)

• Paleontology Community Responds

  • Dinocon, a paleontology convention, bans anyone with Epstein ties.
    • "Finally, some accountability, just like we've always demanded. Our pedophilic ruling elite may stalk the halls of power, but they will never stalk the hallways of the Birmingham Hilton." (Jordan Klepper, 09:58)

• Ronny Chieng Live at the Natural History Museum

  • Outrageous comedic bit accusing dinosaurs—and by extension paleontologists—of complicity:
    • "Dinosaurs? They were the most beloved creature on Earth... until today. Shame on you, you Pervasaurus." (Ronny Chieng, 10:41)
    • Running gags on “pervy” dinosaurs, triceratops horns, and T. rex etymology.

2. Sports War Segment

(15:36–21:42)

• Super Bowl & Halftime Show

  • Bad Bunny headlines, becoming first Spanish-language performer and drawing record viewership.
    • "Ay muy caliente. Bad Bunny was hot. I mean, watching him swivel those hips, I haven't been this confused since college." (Jordan Klepper, 16:58)
  • Debate over halftime shows overshadowing the game.

• Winter Olympics

  • Athlete Gus Kenworthy writes “F ICE” in snow using urine; imagined as a new Olympic event.
    • "That is some gold medal pissing." (Jordan Klepper, 18:42)
    • Ongoing jokes about peeing in snow, with Desi Lydic decrying people who unwittingly eat yellow snow.

• Figure Skating with a Twist

  • Skater performs program to “Despicable Me” (Minions) soundtrack, mocking the evolution of artistic standards in sports.

3. Interview: Tim Blake Nelson on "Superhero"

(24:14–37:33)

• On Writing a Novel vs. Filmmaking

  • Nelson appreciates both the solitary and collaborative aspects of storytelling.
    • "With writing a novel... you're the costume designer, the director of photography. You're doing all the acting, you're doing all the writing, and you're directing it. And that's an interesting change of pace." (Tim Blake Nelson, 25:00)

• Satirizing Superhero Cinema

  • The novel is both a satire on the superhero industry and a love letter to filmmaking's collaborative chaos.
    • "It's a great story about the making of a superhero movie... with some really interesting characters... but the archetypes... are very familiar to people." (Tim Blake Nelson, 26:12)

• On Movie Sets as Microcosms of Society

  • Nelson likens the film set’s hierarchy and interdependencies to society at large.
    • "Movie sets are, to me, a kind of microcosm of greater society... Every action has a reaction and a ramification and a ripple effect." (Tim Blake Nelson, 29:41)

• Why Are Superheroes So American?

  • Traces the genre’s roots to American attitudes about optimism, good vs. evil, and postwar prosperity.
    • "I think the primary one is our sense of optimism, our sense of good and evil, and an absence of gray in between..." (Tim Blake Nelson, 31:49)
    • The Manichean worldview is both empowering and problematic.

• Can Superhero Movies Be Art?

  • Defends them as artistic achievements, albeit with commerce in mind.
    • "I think superhero movies are art. I think they are artistic... I'm sorry, but the character of Thanos is artistic." (Tim Blake Nelson, 34:37)

• Culture, Stratification & The Future

  • The novel covers industry stratification, from stars to crew, echoing larger American tensions.
    • "Just like in real life, where you have stratification culturally and economically, this book deals with that as well." (Tim Blake Nelson, 36:11)
    • Reflection on the possibility of a “sequel to America” as the country and its stories evolve.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Trump’s million appearances in the Epstein files:
  "It's like trying to remove the pee from the water park at this point. You just need to accept that it's in there and try not to think about it."
  —Jordan Klepper (03:00)
• On Lutnick’s defense:
  "I went to Epstein Island. But don't worry, I brought my kids. Isn't the excuse you think it is?"
  —Jordan Klepper (06:22)
• On paleontologists' unexpected link to Epstein:
  "I mean, you’re supposed to be into really, really old stuff, that's literally your whole thing."
  —Jordan Klepper (08:05)
• Ronny Chieng on scandal in the fossil world:
  "Dinosaurs? They were the most beloved creature on Earth… until today. Shame on you, you, Pervasaurus. Who are you protecting?"
  —Ronny Chieng (10:41)
• Tim Blake Nelson on novel writing:
  "You're the costume designer, the director of photography. You're doing all the acting… it's an interesting change of pace."
  —Tim Blake Nelson (25:00)
• On the American superhero myth:
  "Our sense of good and evil, and an absence of gray in between, which is often great, and that's often a really bad thing."
  —Tim Blake Nelson (31:49)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Epstein Files/Trump Mentions: 00:10–04:22
• Howard Lutnick & His Testimony: 04:22–07:40
• Jurassic Park Paleontologist, RFK, Dinocon: 07:40–10:41
• Ronny Chieng at the Museum: 10:41–14:12
• Sports War (Super Bowl & Olympics): 15:36–21:42
• Interview: Tim Blake Nelson: 24:14–37:33

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Conclusion

This episode offers an expertly blended dose of biting satire and thoughtful cultural commentary, lampooning the dizzying fallout from the Epstein files while holding a funhouse mirror to America’s pop-media obsessions. The interview with Tim Blake Nelson provides a smart, nuanced look at superhero storytelling’s roots, its cultural significance, and why the pursuit of artistry remains alive within even the most commercial genres.

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Transcript

[Ninjalux Cafe Announcer]

This episode is brought to you by Ninjalux Cafe, the three in one machine that makes espresso, drip coffee and cold brew. No barista skills required.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're listening to Comedy Central. From the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Jordan Klepper. Welcome to the Anthony Show. I'm George Lepper. Got so much to talk about Tonight, King Charles deals with a royal pain in his ass. Howard Lutnick took his family to the world's worst all inclusive resorts. And the Winter Olympics are here. And they're the only thing wider than that turning point halftime show. But first, let's get into the latest Epstein revelations in another installment of the very normal and not shady handling of the Epstein files. It's pretty boring stuff. We are now well into season five of the Epstein files and it's not ending anytime soon. Over in England, they've already devoted Prince Andrew down to street urchin Andrew, but the people still want more.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Overseas, someone heckled King Charles today because.

[Jordan Klepper]

Of his brother Andrew's ties to the convicted sex offender and financier Charles, how long have you known about Andrew and Epstein? Have you been protecting Andrew for prosecution? Wow. Wow. The new season of Billy on the street is dark. And buddy, look, buddy, I gotta say, be careful. This is the King you're talking to here. He's got actual knights to protect him. Sir Anthony Hopkins and Sir Elton John are gonna. You up, man. Meanwhile, over here in America, members of Congress now have special access to the unredacted Epstein files. Although seeing how the redacted files already mentioned Donald Trump thousands of times, I doubt there's gonna be anything new about him in the unredacted ones. Axios reports that after Congressman Jamie Raskin reviewed the unredacted Epstein files, he said Donald Trump's name appears, quote, more than a million times. Holy shit. A million times. There's not even that many references to Hamlet in the play Hamlet. Now, maybe Raskin is just being hyperbolic, but if this is true, wouldn't it just be easier to call this the Trump files featuring Jeffrey Epstein? It's easier. Rolls off the tongue. I mean, just, just, just think about the effort it took Trump's Justice Department to redact his name that many times. It's like trying to remove the pee from the water park at this point. You just need to accept that it's in there and try not to think about it. But Donald Trump isn't the only member of the administration in the Hot se. Howard Lutnick, Commerce Secretary and dad of a family staying at the White Lotus. Now, a while back, he went on a podcast, and he explained how he lived next door to Jeffrey Epstein. Went to his house once in 2005, got the ick, and never saw him again. My wife and I decided that I will never be in the room with that disgusting person ever again. A one and absolutely done. One and absolutely done. I commend you, Howard, for your moral clarity. I mean, just to be. Just to be. Just to be crystal clear, there was no part of you that was even just a. A little bit curious about Jeffrey Epstein. It's gross. That guy's gross, right? With my wife, he's gross. The guy's gross.

[Commercial Narrator]

He's.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's gross. He's gross. You're right. And if a man who works every day next to Stephen Miller thinks you're gross, wow, that is truly saying something. And so, with his conscience clear, Secretary Lutnick carried his innocent heart to the Senate this morning to testify on broadband deployment. Senator Van Hollen, I see you have a question, perhaps, about a fiber optic cable. Why did the Epstein file show you coordinating a meeting and planning a visitor with Jeffrey Epstein on his private island in December 2012? Excuse me, Senator. This is Howard one and done Lutnick you're talking about here. There's no way that seven years after saying he would never see Epstein again that he visited him on his private island. Okay, Howie, Howie, set this guy straight. I did have lunch with him as I was on a boat going across on a family vacation. Oh, Howie, you're breaking my heart. What was with all the one and the done and the gross and the gross? Was eating with a sex criminal your only option for lunch hour? You couldn't have tried making a PB and J just once? And the fact that you went there on a boat makes it so much worse. I mean, if you ran into him at a potbelly and he said, sit down, I would understand. But you actively navigated a ship towards the band. You're on there shouting, captain, raise the sails and set a course for pedophile island. Howard, look, man, I don't think I could be more disappointed in you. My wife was with me, as were my four children and nannies. Howard, I went to Epstein Island. But don't worry, I brought my kids. Isn't the excuse you think it is? Good God damn, I hate to ask it. I hate it. Howard. I mean, come on. What happened on that island? We had lunch on the island that Is true. For an hour. And we left with all of my children. Father of the year over here. Just to be clear, Howard Lutnick went from I never saw that gross man again to okay, I did visit his island to hey, back off. I left with all my kids, okay? I counted them. I'm the good guy here. You know what? Maybe I shouldn't be too harsh on Howard. Let he who has never sworn he cut ties with a convicted sex offender, only to later dock his private yacht onto a private sex island for a quick lunch before continuing his family vacation with not one but multiple nannies. Cast the first one. And done. I just hope this is the only hero I have who has been besmirched by the Epstein files. New questions tonight about former Montana state professor and paleontologist Jack Horner, the scientist.

[Desi Lydic]

Who helped inspire Jurassic Park.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, Jack, not you, little Jack Horner. Tell me you just sat in that corner. In emails released from 2012, Horner thanks Epstein and the girls for hosting him at the Financiers New Mexico ranch. He describes the property's geology, even mentioning its potential for fossils. All right, all right, okay. You know what? You know what? Let's not jump to conclusions here. Maybe Jack was just there for fossils. Epstein asked me to go to the Bone Zone. I thought he meant something else. Maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, you know, and I. And I hope it was just fossils because it would be so sad if we can't even trust paleontologists not to be pedophiles now. I mean, you're supposed to be into really, really old stuff. That's like literally your whole thing. So we don't know if this guy was getting his own fossil dusted while he was there. But, but, but don't make it. You're making it dirty. But let me remind you that this is not the only connection Epstein had to dinosaurs, nor is it the weirdest.

[Desi Lydic]

Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Joined Epstein and his co conspirator, Ghislaine Maxwell on a trip to North Dakota with a paleontologist on the search for. For dinosaur fossils.

[Jordan Klepper]

That is probably the most RFK way you could be in the Epstein files. RFK is such a weird guy. I actually do believe he would have called Epstein and said, I don't want to come to this next party, but call me if you want to dig up dino bones. Also, don't wear condoms. They give your penis autism.

[Commercial Narrator]

Just.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay, so, okay, so now, now the question is, how will the fossil hunting community respond to these revelations?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

The paleontology Convention Dinocon has announced they are banning anyone with ties to Jeffrey Epstein from attending their events.

[Jordan Klepper]

Whoa.

[Kenya Barris Promo Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

All right. That's right, everybody. Finally, some accountability, just like we've always demanded. Our pedophilic ruling elite may stalk the halls of power, but they will never stalk the hallways of the Birmingham Hilton with a full weekend pass brontosaurus breakfast included. For more on the latest Epstein fallout, we go live to the Natural History Museum with Ronny Chang. Ronnie, Ron. How's the paleontology community responding to all this?

[Ronny Chang]

Not great, Jordan. People are pissed. I mean, we knew there were perverts in finance, entertainment, tech, calligraphy, organic pet food, and like, 400 other industries, but dinosaurs? They were the most beloved creature on Earth. Until today. Shame on you, you, Pervasaurus. Who are you protecting?

[Jordan Klepper]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

[Commercial Narrator]

Wait, wait a second.

[Jordan Klepper]

Ronnie, Ronnie. A pale intellig was in the files, not the dinosaurs. Why are you yelling at them?

[Ronny Chang]

Well, I saw that guy in England heckling the king, and I thought, you know what? That's what we gotta do here, all right? You hear that? You're petosaurus. What did you know?

[Jordan Klepper]

What did you know, right? What are you talking about? Those dinosaurs are all dead.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, they are. And so is Jeffrey Epstein. You see what I'm saying? Coincidence. Look, I don't trust these dirty, bony creeps, Jordan. I mean, why does the T. Rex have those little pervy arms, huh? What, so he can grab little boy's dicks? Hey, go back to Pangea, you sick.

[Jordan Klepper]

Why would a dinosaur evolve to grab little boy dicks?

[Ronny Chang]

Jordan, life finds a way, okay?

[Jordan Klepper]

This is insane. This is an insane thing to do.

[Ronny Chang]

Oh, yeah? Oh, yeah? Well, you sound exactly like the security guards here, okay? You're ruining all the field trips. Shut up.

[Jordan Klepper]

Look, just because a paleontologist has been named in the files, that doesn't mean dinosaurs are somehow involved.

[Ronny Chang]

Jordan, stop making excuses for them, all right? Look at this one over here. You see that? He's got three dildos on his head. Shame on you, you sick.

[Jordan Klepper]

I, I, I don't think those are dildos.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah? Then why do they fit perfectly?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

My ass.

[Ronny Chang]

Answer me that. Just asking questions here, okay? Like, has anyone considered, why does T. Rex sound so much to teen. Why does T Rex sound so much like teen sex, huh? Anybody think of that? And seriously, why do T. Rexes have those little pervy arms? What? What's he doing? Is he trying to write an email to Jeffrey Epstein?

[Jordan Klepper]

Look, look, there's a lot we don't know about Jeffrey Epstein, but it's it's safe to say he was not working with creatures that went extinct 65 million years ago.

[Ronny Chang]

Okay, look, well, someone needs to be screamed at. And I can't get near Trump or Clinton or Bill Gates. And trust me, I've been trying to yell at Bill Gates for years. Okay? My wireless printer only works half the time. You sick?

[Ninjalux Cafe Announcer]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

Your printer needs a static IP address. You know, I'll explain that later. But the point remains. There are real people that need to be held accountable. We need to put on the Justice Department to give us the truth, not dinosaurs. Uh, Jordan.

[Ronny Chang]

Yeah, you.

[Ninjalux Cafe Announcer]

Yeah, you.

[Ronny Chang]

You think the Trump Justice Department is gonna give us the truth? You sound crazy, dude. And that's coming from a guy with a triceratops horn up his ass.

[Jordan Klepper]

It. It's still there.

[Ronny Chang]

I've been telling you the perverts get.

[Jordan Klepper]

That taken care of. Ronny.

[Commercial Narrator]

Welcome back.

[Jordan Klepper]

We catch up on the latest in sports. Don't go away.

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[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. I think I speak for everyone when I say politics, rules and sports rules. For a full recap of the biggest stories in the world of jocks and straps, we turn to sportswar. Get ready for battle. It's time for Sports War, brought to you by gambling. Gambling. 90,000 commercials can't be wrong.

[Desi Lydic]

Welcome back to all my good, bad and fugly bunnies. I'm desi Lydic.

[Jordan Klepper]

And I'm Jordan Klepper. This is sportswar, the show where we are legally not allowed to agree with each other.

[Desi Lydic]

So if I say the opening ceremony in Milan was a beautiful celebration of.

[Jordan Klepper]

Italian culture, then I say it was complete insult to Italy. No Sopranos theme song zero People dressed as lasagna. I mean, they might as well have pissed on the grave of Chef Boyardee.

[Desi Lydic]

Can it, you talking strand of spaghetti. Let's kick things off with the Super Bowl. It's supposed to be the super bowl of spring sporting events, but this year, it was all about the halftime show.

[Jordan Klepper]

Nobody brought the house down like Bad Bunny. The global Superstar showcase. An ode to Puerto Rico.

[Desi Lydic]

The singer show was the most watched halftime performance of all time, making history as the first Spanish language halftime show performer.

[Jordan Klepper]

Ay muy caliente. Bad Bunny was hot. I mean, watching him swivel those hips, I haven't been this confused since college. That Intro to Philosophy class made no sense. Also, I had several gay experiences.

[Desi Lydic]

Jordan, you top shelf dingus. It was too hot. See, that's the problem. These halftime shows have become so elaborate that they're starting to overshadow the actual game. We need to go back to simpler times, like 1908, when they just bring a donkey out at halftime and everyone would be like, oh, shit, a donkey.

[Jordan Klepper]

As someone who has a timeshare in Tijuana, trust me, there's nothing hotter than a donkey show. As they say in TJ Hee haw, Senor Jordan.

[Desi Lydic]

Which brings us to our Latin lover, Beta the Noche. Will anyone tune in to watch Jordan and his donkey at next year's alternative halftime show, brought to you by gambling. Gambling. 4K. No. Moving on to the other major sporting event of the weekend, the Winter Olympics, where apparently skiing doesn't mean doing cocaine. Once again, my apologies for following the Norwegian men's freestyle team into the bathroom. Anyway, this year in Milan, Olympic athletes are leaving their mark like never before.

[Jordan Klepper]

This morning, the political firestorm igniting under the Olympic flame.

[Desi Lydic]

Olympic British American Gus Kenworthy writing f ice in urine in the snow and posting it to Instagram.

[Jordan Klepper]

Ay ay yai yi yai. Muy caliente.

[Commercial Narrator]

Woo.

[Jordan Klepper]

This guy was able to start and stop his stream between letters. Man. Oh, that is some gold medal pissing. In fact, peeing in the snow should be an Olympic event, and I would dominate. I mean, look what I did in the backyard this morning.

[Desi Lydic]

Jesus, how much urine is that? No wonder your wife sleeps in a wetsuit. Peeing in snow should be outlawed. Not just at the Olympics, but everywhere. I mean, what happens when someone eats that yellow snow because she thinks it looks delicious even though everyone keeps telling her, don't eat yellow snow. It doesn't taste like Gatorade. And sure, sure, she even wrote it on her hand as a reminder, but. But she's wearing gloves because it's so cold outside. So she ate the snow anyway because she's sick and tired of everyone telling her what to do. And you know what? It didn't taste like Gatorade. It tasted like urine. But she had to come to that conclusion all on her own. What about those people? Jordan?

[Jordan Klepper]

Which brings me to my pee pee pants parlay bet of the night. Which country will take home the gold in Olympic snow Peen? Brought to you by gambling. Gambling. If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, double down.

[Desi Lydic]

Moving on from something delicious and yellow on snow to something delicious and yellow on ice.

[Jordan Klepper]

We turn back to Milan, where one Olympic figure skater isn't just dreaming of.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Gold, but minion yellow too.

[Jordan Klepper]

Tomas Llorent's Guarino Sabate.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

His signature short program featuring songs from the wildly popular Despicable Me movies.

[Jordan Klepper]

Minions over Mozart. It's nice to mix it up in figure skating. I, I, I, I, I know. Caliente. This is despicable for me and the entire sport of figure skating. I mean, where's Tonya Harding with a pipe when you need her?

[Desi Lydic]

Jordan, the scores are in. You're a moron. This performance was what the Olympics are all about. There's something for everyone. Skating copyright law, adults wearing overalls. Anyone can nail a double axel in a skin tight unitard, but it takes real skill to do it in a spirit Halloween costume. His parents should be so proud. Assuming they still speak to him.

[Jordan Klepper]

Are you kidding me, Desi? The only thing more certain than this guy not getting an Olympic medal is him not getting chlamydia in the Olympic village. I mean, you have to ESP to get the td.

[Desi Lydic]

Which brings us to our millionaire maker, bed of the night. What movie character will Tomas skate as next? Brought to you by gambling. Gambling. Sicopa Tota tea. Banana. Banana.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, that's all the time we have for sportswar. Join us next week when we debate if the Winter Olympics should be in the summer and feature running and swimming. I think it's a good idea. I think it is a great idea.

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[Jordan Klepper]

Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is an filmmaker and author whose new novel is called Superhero. Please welcome Tim Blake Nelson. Welcome, sir. You are a jack of all people. Know you as an actor, playwright, director, and this is your second novel. Why jump into the publishing industry? Because it's known for just as a money maker, right?

[Commercial Narrator]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're like, I want to write books, I want to bring in the cash.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah, that was pretty much it. No, I guess I like having. I love collaborating, which I get to do when I act in movies, when I direct movies, when I write them, when I write plays. It's all a collective enterprise. And with writing a novel, I do have a wonderful editor, this guy named Chris Heiser. But it's all you're by yourself and effectively you're the costume designer, the director of photography. You're doing all the acting, you're doing all the writing, and you're directing it. And that's an interesting change of pace, even though, again, I love collaboration. It's just interesting to take another approach to storytelling.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah. I mean, that's the nicest way of saying, like, working with all these movie hacks. I want total control. I mean, this book is. It's fascinating. I mean, how would you describe it? It's a satire on the sort of superhero industry.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yes. I mean, I think that's it, I guess, at 30,000ft. Which I appreciate your saying that. I think when you're writing any sort of narrative, you also want to entertain people. And so I also think that this is a great story. I hope it is. Anyway, that's my ambition with some really interesting characters who won't be specifically familiar to people. But the archetypes, I think, are very familiar to people. And it's a great story about the making of a superhero movie. And it's meant to entertain, but it also has. Forgive me for saying it, but literary ambitions. I tried to write it really well in an interesting way. And so it is also literary fiction. It's a novel, but it's an entertaining one.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, it truly is. I think one of the fun things about reading this is, I mean, knowing your background, knowing that you have intimate knowledge of this. You've been in the Hulk, you've been in superhero movies, you've been Captain America. Like when you were on these sets, watching this from afar, are you taking notes, following gaffers around, trying to. Trying to figure out the inner workings so that you could then utilize it. Are you stealing from these people actively while you're working?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

No, but effectively, I kind of am, however.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Because what I love about movie sets is that pretty much everyone on a movie set, from the PA to the people working in the third or fourth positions in various departments, set decorator, set painters, property master, all the way up to the designers, the director, the actors, everyone pretty much on a movie set doesn't want to be anywhere else. It's their dream life. They really want to be participating in the telling of stories in a filmed medium. Kind of like the Daily Show.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh, these people who work, they don't want to be here? No. Are you kidding? Everybody runs, they're pitching. Pilots constantly side hustles. Real estate's a big one right now. Yeah. A lot of them are looking for employment in Canada, so. No. It feels like you're Kind of rubbing it in. Well, I do think what is interesting reading this is you're able to really describe the desires people have when they get to a film set. I found what's fascinating, one little move about where something is being filmed will have just such a cascade effect on every single aspect of a film that drives people to sort of these funny extremes. But what you do within this is you paint all of these different characters, at least to begin with. You're sort of starting with different characters who come to this film set. But you really give them a humanity and really speak to the ambition of every person who walks onto a film set. Which I thought was really. Was really a kind way of seeing every person who gets onto that set really, really comes from a place of wanting to be there.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Yeah. And so when I was talking a moment ago about wanting to purloin stuff from people, you kind of do that because everybody's really enthusiastic and they want to talk about their work. And you just learn a lot of stuff. Movie sets are, to me, a kind of microcosm of greater society. And that's why I felt this was a suitable place to set a novel. Because, as you said a moment ago, every action ramifies. And there's an actor makes a decision to wear a pair of glasses. That means that the prop department needs to bring a selection of glasses and put them in front of the actor. And then the director has to approve them. And if it's a big studio movie, it'll often go all the way up to the head of the studio, as crazy as that sounds. And I don't think society is really that different. Every action has a reaction and a ramification and a ripple effect. Movie sets also are filled with pettiness, envy, decency, healthy ambitions, unhealthy ambitions, gossip. Everything that we have in society is kind of, in a small way, microcosmically on a movie set.

[Jordan Klepper]

What do you think it is about superhero movies specifically, having written about it, but also lived it? What if this is sort of, you know, in many ways, this is. This is a microcosm of this country that we live in. But it's such an American thing to want these grand big stories. The American dream is often built into these superhero stories. We're fascinated with them. We expand upon them. What is it that's so American about the superhero story?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Well, I think it was no coincidence. In fact, it was completely organic and perhaps even inevitable that the superhero comic originated here. And then the superhero movie was an evolution of that. And both captivated the World. It could only happen in America for all sorts of reasons. And I think the primary one is our sense of optimism, our sense of good and evil, and an absence of gray in between, which is often great. And that's often a really bad thing. I mean, look at the polarization politically in our country right now. That's not a very good thing. We're not seeing grays. But at the same time, that Manichean. The good and evil, those extremes perceived by these guys who were writing comics right before the second world war, and then in particular after them, was the result of a way of seeing the world optimistically in terms of good and evil. That could only happen in America, which was never invaded. During the second world war. We were and still are. Even though we're the oldest democracy in the world, We're a relatively young country. And all of that came together in addition to the fact that we were a very wealthy country, particularly after the Second World War, and a booming country through the 50s. We created this phenomenon. And then the superhero movie is a natural evolution of that, because only American studios could afford to make them.

[Jordan Klepper]

Do you think, you know, the studio plays a role in here, A big role, you know, much like Marvel and sort of the people who own the IP within it. I'm curious. The characters you sketch out here all have these great ambitions, these artistic ambitions, from the actors to the DP director. They all want to make something great, and most of them want to make something artistic. But you also speak to the fact that this is a commodity, a very important one, that, like, the whole ecosystem depends on this thing doing well. Part of this story is the sacrifices that have to be made so that this commodity is successful. Do you think a superhero movie can be. Can be art under the system with which it's made Now?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

I think superhero movies are art. I think they are artistic. I think that they put images on the screen that are absolutely extraordinary. Are they coen brothers movies or Terrence Malick movies or Ari Oster movies or safdie brothers movies? No, but that's not their ambition. They're out there to entertain on a massive scale. And when they work, they are artistic. I'm sorry, but the character of thanos is artistic. Watching somebody fly through the air of the batman movies. They are artistic. I don't think that art and commerce need be mutually exclusive. Is artistry the main aim of a superhero movie? No, but that doesn't mean that artistry is abrogated from the process. And. And again, you're looking at America when you look at a superhero movie.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah. So will there be a sequel to America? When we look at this, how is the America universe looking? Is it growing? Is it expanding? Are we hitting the dark period?

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Well, I mean, you know, that's a really good question, actually, because maybe the seeing of the world in terms of good and evil and not being able to perceive the gradations in between is very much part of our problem. But I wouldn't place blame at the foot of superhero movies or superhero comics because those are a response to or a reflection of stuff that's already in the culture, who we are. And I guess that's one of the other aspects of the novel, is that it's not just about the movie star and his producer wife, but you have the character of a dp, you have the character of a teamster who drives the lead actor around. You have PAs, you have a line producer. So. So just like in real life, where you have stratification culturally and economically, this book deals with that as well. And again, hopefully in an entertaining way. And it always goes back to it's meant to Be America.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's a beautiful read and a fun read. Superhero available now. Tim Blake Nelson. We're going to take a quick break right back after this. That's our show for tonight. Now, here it is. Your moment is in. So let's bring in Republican Senator Eric Schmidt of Missouri. Good morning, Senator. So Republicans made concessions to keep the government open earlier this year. You're one of several Republicans who want something in return. Saying, like an end of sanctuary cities. That seems like common sense to me. Is it gonna happen?

[Ninjalux Cafe Announcer]

Yeah.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

Well, first of all, sorry, I'm Pete Ricketts from Nebraska.

[Jordan Klepper]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show. Wherever you get your podcasts, watch the Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, This has been a Comedy Central podcast. New Year, New me. Cute.

[Tim Blake Nelson]

But how about New Year, new money?

[Jordan Klepper]

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