Trump Wages War on American Cities As DOD Gets a Makeover | Michael Grunwald

Summary

The Daily Show: Ears Edition

Episode: Trump Wages War on American Cities As DOD Gets a Makeover | Michael Grunwald

Date: September 11, 2025

Host: Michael Kosta

Notable Correspondents: Jordan Klepper, Josh Johnson

Special Guest: Michael Grunwald

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Episode Overview

This episode tackles two major storylines: the Trump administration’s controversial “rebranding” of the Department of Defense to the “Department of War,” and the subsequent use of the military in American cities. The second half shifts to topics surrounding U.S.-Canada relations — with a comedic field piece on Vermont’s attempts to lure back Canadian tourists — followed by an in-depth interview with journalist Michael Grunwald on his new book, We Are Eating the Earth, about the role of agriculture and meat consumption in climate change.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Department of Defense Renamed as Department of War (01:01–12:44)

A. Trump’s Executive Order:

• The show opens with coverage of President Trump issuing an order to rename the “Department of Defense” (DoD) to the “Department of War.”
  • “Not a good sign when a country that's not at war suddenly sets up a Department of War. What’s the President trying to tell us?” — Michael Kosta [02:16]
• The satirical take explores the rationale, with Trump claiming “wokeness” led to the 1947 name change, and his supporters arguing the U.S. military should project “maximum lethality” instead of being constrained by political correctness.
  • “Deadly force, not a gender studies course. It’s World War 3, not Adam and Steve... slam poetry, great.” — Michael Kosta [03:44]

B. The Reality — The Name Change is Largely Symbolic:

• Officially changing the department’s name requires congressional action; the order makes “Department of War” a secondary name only.
  • “Are you telling me the American military just gave itself an official nickname? If anything, that makes it seem weaker.” — Michael Kosta [05:10]
• Discussion of the billions potentially required to update signage, stationary, and base emblems, despite budget cuts to areas like cancer research.
  • “My God, what a waste. You know, and that's real money that we could have spent on two fighter jets for Qatar that would get bombed by two other fighter jets from Israel that we also paid for.” — Michael Kosta [05:44]

C. Domestic Military Deployments:

• Trump’s militarization extends beyond D.C. to threats of troop deployments in Chicago and New York.
  • A manipulated image: “I love the smell of deportations in the morning... Chicago about to find out why it’s called the Department of War.” [06:54]
• Satirical focus on the idea of using the military against American cities, with commentary on the president’s Freudian need to “invade the city he came out of.” [07:09]

D. Protest in D.C. and Comic Analysis:

• Footage from D.C.: Trump claims restaurants are “booming” after National Guard deployment, but his security detail and protesters disrupt the narrative.
  • “Nothing says I feel safe like driving one block from the White House, surrounded by a fleet of armored cars and countless Secret Service agents. And just look at this pussy posse behind him.” — Michael Kosta [07:53]
  • Protesters chant: “Free DC, Free Palestine. Trump is the Hitler of our time.” [08:21]
• Comic exchange between Kosta and Josh Johnson mocks the administration’s posturing, suggesting the Department of War is more interested in low-risk targets than confronting major adversaries.
  • “Hell, no. Obviously not China. They got tanks and bombs. They invented kung fu, Costa. No, I'm talking about hotel workers in Baltimore.” — Josh Johnson [10:36]
  • “I can tell you’ve never been to jail... You should walk in and start beating the shit out of yourself... You ever see a guy punching his own balls? No one’s gonna mess with him. He crazy.” — Josh Johnson [11:26]
• Segment closes with a physical comedy bit, ending on the phrase: “Peace through Strength, Costa.” — Josh Johnson [12:25]

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2. Vermont’s Battle for Canadian Tourism (13:22–18:43)

A. Trump’s Antagonism Damages US–Canada Relations:

• Americans are losing Canadian tourist dollars due to Trump’s rhetoric and policies.
  • “Canadians are boycotting American vacations. By plane, down 20%. By car, down 35%. It's projected that the US will lose $12.5 billion compared to last year.” — Michael Kosta [13:52]
• Vermont, traditionally dependent on Canadian tourism, is especially hard hit.

B. Vermont's (Quirky) Attempts to Lure Back Canadians:

• Stickers and signs declare “Canadians are welcome”; one street is even renamed “Canada Street.”
  • “You’re putting country over God.” — Jordan Klepper [14:49]
• Free parking incentives and even embracing local quirks like public nudity, all aimed at enticing Canadian visitors.
  • “Do you think maybe the naked people is a reason Canadians don’t visit as much?” — Jordan Klepper [15:05]

C. The Beer Diplomacy Solution:

• Breweries bring in Canadian beers and eliminate exchange rates to draw more visitors.
  • “So the game plan is discounts, Canadian beer and overall politeness.” — Jordan Klepper [16:20]
• Ultimately, the answer turns out to be simple: beer brings people together.
  • “Beer is good for friendship.” — (Vermont Canadian festival attendee) [16:55]
  • “Beer was the answer.” — Jordan Klepper [18:04]

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3. Michael Grunwald Interview: Eating the Earth (20:37–34:39)

A. Setting the Stage:

• Michael Grunwald, journalist and author, discusses his new book, We Are Eating the Earth.
• He describes his own journey starting with a question: “Is meat really this bad for the climate?” (21:21)

B. The Scale of the Problem:

• Agriculture is the leading driver of deforestation, water shortages, and pollution — one-third of the climate problem.
  • “We're losing a soccer field worth of forest every six seconds to agriculture. That we are eating the earth.” — Grunwald [22:51]
  • Only 1% of land is urban/suburban; 40% is crops and pasture. [23:11]
• Forests are literal carbon sinks; bulldozing them weakens the planet’s ability to absorb carbon.
  • “Trying to decarbonize the planet while you’re tearing down forests for agriculture, it’s like trying to clean up your house while smashing the vacuum cleaner to bits.” — Grunwald [23:11]

C. Meat, Inefficiency, and Dietary Choices:

• Animal agriculture is extremely inefficient — especially beef.
  • “Three quarters of our agricultural land is either pasture or it’s crops that we’re feeding to animals... Beef in particular, cattle are the baddies.” — Grunwald [24:06]
  • Beef is about ten times worse than chicken or pork, climate-wise [24:49]

D. The Limits and Future of Alternatives:

• The plant-based meat boom (e.g., Beyond Meat) peaked in hype then crashed, but tech may yet catch up.
  • “Right now it’s only 90% as good as meat and it costs a little bit more... But the cow is a pretty mature technology and this stuff isn’t.” — Grunwald [26:42]
• There are other exciting solutions, including:
  • Gene-edited microbes as fertilizer
  • mRNA pesticides to “constipate potato beetles to death” [27:19]
  • AI-enhanced photosynthesis for higher yields

E. Busting “Local” and “Grass-Fed” Myths:

• “Knowing your farmer” and eating local don’t automatically equate to climate-friendly.
  • “From a climate and environmental perspective, what really matters is what you’re eating and how it’s grown, how efficiently.” — Grunwald [28:53]
• Grass-fed beef is actually worse than factory-farmed, efficiency-wise.
  • “It takes them longer to get to slaughter weight. So they’re alive to burp and fart methane for longer.” — Grunwald [29:19]

F. The Need for High-Yield, Efficient Agriculture:

• To avoid further deforestation, agriculture must become more land- and emission-efficient.
  • “We are going to need high yield agriculture... Factories are really good at manufacturing lots of stuff.” — Grunwald [30:26]
  • Both industrial and small-scale farms need to maximize food per acre.

G. Trees and Water Quality:

• Echoes: “Trees are the answer” in halting climate change and deforestation [31:56]
• Water quality crises across the U.S. are largely tied to agriculture:
  • “The reason the aquifers under California are parched are because of the agriculture on top of it... The reason there’s a dead zone the size of Connecticut in the Gulf of Mexico is because of fertilizer running off farms in the Mississippi Valley.” — Grunwald [32:44]
• Closing: farmers do essential work, but need to be held to higher environmental standards.
  • “Sure, your heartland values are great, but collectively you’re stewarding a mess and we want you to make even more food and we'll help you, but you’re going to have to do it with less mess.” — Grunwald [34:06]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Are you telling me the American military just gave itself an official nickname? If anything, that makes it seem weaker.” — Michael Kosta [05:10]
• “If we have factory farms, we’d like to have them do it with less mass. And if we’re going to have the nice organic farms, they’re going to have to make more food per acre.” — Michael Grunwald [30:26]
• “Beer is good for friendship.” — Canadian festival attendee [16:55]
• “Trees are good, man.” — Michael Grunwald [31:56]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• [01:01–12:44]: Main segment—Trump’s executive order renaming DoD, American cities’ “invasion,” satirical Pentagon report with Josh Johnson
• [13:22–18:43]: Jordan Klepper’s Vermont/Canada tourism story
• [20:37–34:39]: Interview with Michael Grunwald on agriculture, meat, climate, and water issues

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Conclusion

This episode combines pointed political satire about American militarism and Trumpian theatrics with a genuinely illuminating, comedic, and practical conversation on agriculture’s role in climate change. The “Department of War” bit eviscerates the administration’s optics and logic, while Michael Grunwald’s segment delivers abundant, accessible insights on the urgent need to rethink how we grow — and consume — our food. The tone remains comic and lightly irreverent, but never strays far from the episode’s bigger questions: What kind of nation (and planet) are we cultivating, and can we do better?

Transcript

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[Jordan Klepper]

It is the future. It's.

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[Michael Kosta]

You're listening to Comedy Central from the most trusted journalists at Comedy Central. It's America's only source for news. This is the Daily show with your host, Michael Koff. Woo. Oh, yeah, baby. Oh, yeah. Welcome to the Daily Show. I'm M. Michael Costa. We've got so much to talk about tonight. The Department of Defense ditches its maiden name. Jordan Klepper almost makes it to Canada. And Donald Trump makes headlines by going to a restaurant without a drive thru. So let's get into the headlines. Since taking office, Donald Trump has been spending a lot of time redecorating, from paving over the Rose Garden to turning the Oval Office into a cash for gold storefront. But now that the White House is perfect, Trump has moved on to renovating the Department of Defense.

President Trump has just signed an executive order to rename the Department of Defense.

The President wants to change the name.

Back to the Department of War.

Hmm. Not a good sign when a country that's not at war suddenly sets up a Department of War. What's the President trying to tell us about what's going to happen? It's like when your doctor asks you to come in and discuss your test results in person. We can high five over how few STDs I have. So why is Trump doing this? We won the first World War. We won the Second World War. We won everything before that and in between. And then we decided to go woke and we changed the name to Department of Defense.

[Jordan Klepper]

Oh.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh. Yeah, so the military went woke when they changed their name in 1947, that time period in American history. I guess wokeness is also why we lost in Vietnam, huh? Big mistake to carpet bomb that country with DVDs of the black Little Mermaid, but okay. The new name is supposed to reflect that our military is no longer woke. What does that mean exactly? Pete Hegseth, could you tell us? Hey, but make it funky.

[Jordan Klepper]

We're gonna go on offense, not just on defense. Maximum lethality, not tepid legality. Violent effect, not politically correct.

[Michael Kosta]

Deadly force, not a gender studies course. It's World War 3, not Adam and Steve. Agent Orange, not. Ah, I wrote myself into a corner, but yeah, slam poetry, great. And his sobriety, Edgar Allan bro over here picked up the one hobby that's actually worse than drinking. By the way, if the vibe we're going for is maximum lethality, we should probably also think about changing the name of the Pentagon. That name's not scaring anyone. Pentagon. That's just a pretentious square. You want the world quivering in their boots from now on? It should be the polygon of doom. So, yes, the Department of Defense is now officially the Department of War. Except, funny thing, it's not really literally, officially. Actually, to be clear, officially changing the name of the Department of Defense would require an act of Congress and 60 votes in the Senate, which Trump could not get.

It appears that this executive order is not really changing the name completely from dod, Department of Defense to Department of War, but is instead making it a secondary name.

Secondary name? Are you telling me the American military just gave itself an official nickname? If anything, that makes it seem weaker. There's nothing more pathetic than that friend that tries to create his own nickname. From now on, call me Stevie Muscles. Okay, that's cute, Stevie Muscles, but your mom's here to pick you up. But what's the harm, right? It's not going to cost us anything. Right, right, right. According to Politico, it will likely cost billions of dollars to change the name on stationary emblems, plaques, and other signage at the Defense Department and bases around the world. Billions. It's gonna cost billions to adopt this not even name, but nickname. My God, what a waste. You know, and that's real money that we could have spent on two fighter jets for Qatar that would get bombed by two other fighter jets from Israel that we also paid for. But okay, this is the same administration that dozed the out of cancer research and food safety, but they can find billions to change the stationary at the Pentagon. Oh, sorry, not the Pentagon, the anus of destruction. But you know what? That's. Thank God for that effect. But you know what? That's cool. We got the Department of War now, and they'll be terrifying America's enemies wherever they go. Where exactly are they going? Planning is underway to potentially duplicate Trump's mobilization in D.C. and send troops into Chicago. I think Chicago will be our next. And then we'll help with New York.

Trump sharing a manipulated image of himself with a twist on a quote from the movie Apocalypse Now. The caption says, I love the smell of deportations in the morning. And the line, chicago. About to find out why it's called the Department of War.

So great. The first use of our new Department of War is invading American cities. And by the way, if Trump does send troops to New York, that means he's gonna invade the very city he came out of. Hmm. Freudian much? Just admit that you wanna your mom, dude. All right. But before he invades all Democratic cities, Trump first used Washington, D.C. as a test case. It's been a month since Trump sent the National Guard into the nation's capitol. And last night, Trump tried to show everyone that it's been a huge success.

[Jordan Klepper]

Fox News alert. Donald Trump is out on the town. Dinner with members of his cabinet in D.C. showing it's safe to walk around the city. After deploying the National Guard, the restaurants now are booming.

[Michael Kosta]

People are going out to dinner where they didn't go out for years, and it's a safe city. And I just want to thank the National Guard. Hey, nothing says I feel safe like driving one block from the White House, surrounded by a fleet of armored cars and countless Secret Service agents. And just look at this pussy posse behind him.

[Jordan Klepper]

Huh?

[Michael Kosta]

That looks like the bachelor party from hell. You got the jokester, right, the bad boy. The guy who has work in the morning and doesn't want to be in this friend group anymore and ends up crying through a lap dance. Whatever you think about the occupation of D.C. at least Trump now feels safe enough to go out and he can enjoy a nice meal in peace overnight. While dining out in Washington, D.C. president Trump facing protests. Free DC free Palestine. Trump is the Hitler of our time. 3 DC free Palestine. Trump is the Hitler of our time. Free Palestine. Yeah, give it up for the protesters, you know what I mean? Here we go. Also, they just discovered the most genius way of getting out of your restaurant bill, right? $40 for a shrimp cocktail. Trump's. Hitler. Trump's. Oh, no, don't kick me out. We didn't settle our Tab. Okay. See you. Bye. I'm gonna do that next time I go to Panera Bread. I sympathize with these people. I protest in steakhouses all the time. Specifically, Ruth. Chris Steakhouse. What the does that mean? Who is Chris? Why's he Ruth. For more on the new Department of War, we go live to the Pentagon with Josh Johnson. Oh, yeah, Josh. Josh. This name change feels like a real waste of time to me.

[Josh Johnson]

That's cause you're a bitch, Costa. Department of War is letting everybody know that Donald Trump isn't around. It's like Pete Hegseth says, we're the Department of War. We're here to say we do all the war in a major way. B Boy stance.

[Michael Kosta]

So you're saying America is on war footing, ready to fight any of our enemies at any time.

[Josh Johnson]

Anybody, anytime?

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, including China?

[Josh Johnson]

Hell, no. Obviously not China. They got tanks and bombs. They invented kung fu, Costa. No, I'm talking about hotel workers in Baltimore. These clean lays had it too good for too long.

[Michael Kosta]

Cleaning ladies. Aren't there more appropriate enemies for the Department of War? Like the Sinaloa Cartel?

[Josh Johnson]

No, dude, those guys chop people's heads off for fun. No, no, no. We not touching carte, but an unarmed boat. We light that shit up from a distance, all right? Bombs away. We ain't here to play.

[Michael Kosta]

Poison. Poison. So, to be clear, the Department of War isn't trying to do war, just little skirmishes.

[Josh Johnson]

I can tell you never been to jail.

[Michael Kosta]

No, no. I have you.

[Josh Johnson]

That's not the point, you know. You know how they say in jail, you should walk right up to the biggest guy and punch him in the face? That's not true at all, all right? What you should actually do is walk in and start beating the shit out of yourself, all right? You ever see a guy punching his own balls? No one's gonna mess with him. He crazy. It's just like Pete Hexag says, you gotta have the guts to punch your own nuts.

[Michael Kosta]

Stop. Every time. Wait, I. I'm no expert, but Trump's plan of laying siege to his own country may be one of the dumbest.

[Josh Johnson]

Things I've ever heard them fighting words. Kosta, you wanna go?

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. You know what? Yeah, let's go. Let's go.

[Josh Johnson]

Yeah, well, I'm on the way right now.

[Michael Kosta]

Let's go. Let's go.

[Jordan Klepper]

You asked for it.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, my God. He's punching himself in the nuts.

[Josh Johnson]

Oh, yeah. You had enough yet, Kosta?

[Michael Kosta]

Fine. Fine. Fine. Yield. Just stop. Just stop. Just stop. Oh. See?

[Josh Johnson]

Peace through Strength. Costa.

[Michael Kosta]

Josh. Josh Johnson, everyone. When we come back, we'll find out how to get CO Canada back. Don't go away, Josh.

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[Michael Kosta]

Welcome to Mac Show. America is in a golden age of having enemies. But is it possible to make peace with one of them? Jordan Klepper has more.

[Jordan Klepper]

Americans and Canadians have been best friends for decades. Until this guy came along, one of.

[Michael Kosta]

The nastiest countries to deal with is Canada. Canada was meant to be the 51st state. They need us. We don't need them.

[Jordan Klepper]

Okay, that was bad. But Canadians are polite. They're not gonna let a little trash talk ruin our friendship.

[Michael Kosta]

Canadians are boycotting American vacations. By plane, down 20%. By car, down 35%. It's projected that the US will lose $12.5 billion compared to last year.

[Jordan Klepper]

And one state getting hit the hardest is Vermont. How's business going in Burlington? Right now?

[Michael Kosta]

Not so great, actually.

You know, we've.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's been slow.

[Michael Kosta]

We've seen credit card spending down 30 or 40%.

People get their feelings hurt, and then they don't want to come here.

[Jordan Klepper]

So what's the most aggressively liberal state doing to win their neighbors back?

[Michael Kosta]

There's stickers to attract Canadian tourists just to let them know that we're Canadian friendly.

[Jordan Klepper]

Not every idea is gonna be a win.

[Michael Kosta]

We've got a sign on our door. Canadians are welcome.

[Jordan Klepper]

This isn't an ice trap, is it?

[Michael Kosta]

No, no.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's like with cops and prostitutes. You have to tell me if I ask you, are you a prostitute?

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. No, I'm not. I swear.

[Jordan Klepper]

Traditionally, this is Church street, and so.

[Michael Kosta]

City council just voted to rename it as Canada Street.

[Jordan Klepper]

You're putting country over God.

Yes, actually, I had not thought about.

[Michael Kosta]

It in those terms.

[Jordan Klepper]

Whatever it takes to get those loonies.

[Michael Kosta]

We'Re doing some free parking stuff for them.

[Jordan Klepper]

You got to think bigger than free parking.

What about our naked person thing?

You have a naked person thing?

Yes, we do.

[Michael Kosta]

In this town, you can walk around naked.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah. Do you think maybe the naked people is a reason Canadians don't visit as.

Much people come here on vacation specifically.

[Michael Kosta]

For the opportunity to walk around naked.

[Jordan Klepper]

I was at the front line of America's economic downfall. But surprisingly, ass cheeks, stickers, and free parking just aren't enough. What about the foot soldier? Like this Vermonter, Karen?

[Michael Kosta]

I went to Canada, up to Sutton, two hours north of here, and I made a little poster and brought it to different stores. Yeah, I was apologizing.

[Jordan Klepper]

I want to know how many Canadians accepted your apology and how many left you crying in a Tim Hortons parking lot?

[Michael Kosta]

I wasn't in Tim Hortons.

[Jordan Klepper]

Did you even go to Canada? One annual event that's always got Canadians across the border was the Vermont Brewers Festival. In an average year, how many tickets would you expect to sell to Canadians?

[Michael Kosta]

700.

[Jordan Klepper]

700?

[Michael Kosta]

Oh, yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

And this year, you sold 50. 50 times. Were desperate. But luckily, the brewery had a few tricks up their sleeves to entice the Canucks.

We are, you know, getting rid of.

[Michael Kosta]

The exchange rate, so there's a bienvenue. Canadian. So line. We've got three Montreal breweries down here.

[Jordan Klepper]

We're bringing Canada beer to America to get Canadians to come from Canada to America.

[Michael Kosta]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Klepper]

So the game plan is discounts, Canadian beer and overall politeness.

[Michael Kosta]

Absolutely.

[Jordan Klepper]

Are you sure I'm not in Canada right now?

[Michael Kosta]

Nope.

[Jordan Klepper]

I decided to do some deep research at this festival to find out if Canadians are, in fact, that cheap and easy. What got you here? Was it the. The stickers, the discounts, the VIP line?

[Michael Kosta]

Just the beer.

[Jordan Klepper]

The beer. Just the beer. Okay, that. Yeah, that makes sense. You're a hero. I know there's been a lot of people who don't want to come into America right now.

[Michael Kosta]

I try to separate what's happening in White House and what's happening with my friend.

[Jordan Klepper]

How do you keep those things separate?

[Michael Kosta]

Beer is good for friendship.

[Jordan Klepper]

Beer is good for friendship. You're not Canadian. No. You're not American. An alcoholic. Where are you coming in from?

[Michael Kosta]

Montreal.

[Jordan Klepper]

What brought you in?

[Michael Kosta]

The food and the beer, which is phenomenal.

[Jordan Klepper]

Why do you think there is, though, that reticence with other Canadians? Is it. I don't know. Is it the trade wars? Trump calling you freeloaders, the new travel regulations? Is it threatening extortion? It could be the terror policy. It could be the 51st state. It could be fear of getting over the border. It could be the preponderance of guns that we have in our culture. It could be messing with the financial system. It could be a culture of hate and cruelty that's happening right now. Is it, Ted? Cruz. Probably Ted Cruz.

[Michael Kosta]

None of that is helping.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Despite their best efforts, none of their Canadian traps were working. But then I started to reflect on the last five minutes.

[Michael Kosta]

We're big beer people.

We make beer.

We love beer.

And the beer, which is phenomenal.

[Jordan Klepper]

Beer is good for our friendship. Vermont beer is, like, definitely in the upper echelon. Beer, beer, beer. Just the beer.

[Michael Kosta]

The beer. Just the beer.

[Jordan Klepper]

Beer was the answer. Step right up.

[Michael Kosta]

Step right up.

[Jordan Klepper]

Come on up.

[Michael Kosta]

Come up.

[Jordan Klepper]

I have a concoction that knows no borders. It is not American.

[Michael Kosta]

It is not Canadian.

[Jordan Klepper]

It is something that is friendship. Have you ever seen this before? This is Jordan Clifford's very pale ale.

[Michael Kosta]

Wow.

[Jordan Klepper]

Come taste what freedom Cheers tastes like.

[Michael Kosta]

Oh.

[Jordan Klepper]

Just needed one special touch, because in the end, we all just need a little bit of Canada to make everything better. And beer. Mostly beer.

[Michael Kosta]

Thank you, Jordan. When we come back, Michael Grunwald will be joining me on the show. Thanks very much. Does it ever feel like you're a marketing professional just speaking into the void? But with LinkedIn ads, you can know you're reaching the right decision makers, a network of 130 million of them. In fact, you can even target buyers by job title, industry, company seniority, skills, and. Did I say job title? See how you can avoid the void and reach the right buyers with LinkedIn ads? Spend $250 on your first campaign and get a free $250 credit for the next one. Get [e-mail] Campaign terms and conditions apply.

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Welcome back to the Daily Show. My guest tonight is an award winning journalist and best selling author whose latest book is called We Are Eating the Earth. Please welcome Michael Grunwald. Michael, Big Michael Grunwald fans here. That's awesome. This book, a five year project and you discuss in the introduction. It started when you had a simple question and you called someone for help. Is meat really this bad for the climate? Yeah. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

And the answer was yes.

[Michael Kosta]

Duh. Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, I was an energy and climate guy. Yeah. I had written a piece about my own green life. I'd gotten an all electric Chevy bolt. I put solar panels on my roof and I had a line, kind of a throwaway line, about how I wasn't some kind of eco saint. I was doing it because clean energy was cheap, that I didn't line dry my laundry, I didn't unplug my computer at night. I still eat meat. And I realized I didn't know. So I called this guy and he told me. And it occurred to me that if I was this spectacularly ignorant about meat and agriculture, which turns out to be our, you know, it's our leading driver of deforestation, of water pollution, of water shortages, and it's a third of our climate problem. And I didn't know squat about it. So I figured if I was this spectacularly ignorant, other people probably were too.

[Michael Kosta]

Why is eating meat associated with land? Back it up for. Let's just say the host of the show is a total idiot.

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, look, I mean, I think, you know, agriculture, you know, when I say it's a climate problem, people think, oh yeah, the diesel tractors, the burping cows and farting cows, the fertilizer.

[Michael Kosta]

Honestly, if you say fart, this audience laughs.

[Jordan Klepper]

I know, it's funny.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah.

[Jordan Klepper]

But the real problem is that we're losing a soccer field worth of forest every six seconds to agriculture, that we are eating the earth. Right. And at this point, people know that cities and suburbs take up a lot of land. Well, that's like 1% of our land. Crops and pastures are almost 40%.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

And from a climate perspective, you know, trying to decarbonize the planet while you're tearing down Forests for agriculture. It's like trying to clean up your house while you're smashing the vacuum cleaner to bits in the living room. Right. You're making this huge mess because you're losing all the carbon in the forest, but you're also crippling your ability to clean up the mess because that's what forests do.

[Michael Kosta]

Is it that the carbon is being stored in the forest or is it the trees clean the carbon and give us oxygen? Or is it both?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, it's both. There's.

[Michael Kosta]

Can you tell me? I was a communications major.

[Jordan Klepper]

There you go. Exactly. It's sucking carbon out of the atmosphere there. You know, there are. The original 3 billion year old. Photosynthesis is our. It's our form of carbon capture. And you know, and we're overrunning it.

[Michael Kosta]

So if we're eating. So we're eating meat, it's because we're still bulldozing trees. That feels so archaic to me.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I mean, you know, meat is so. Three quarters of our agricultural land is either pasture or it's crops that we're feeding to animals. Like, you know, if you're like plant, you're eating plants, that's great. If you're eating animals that eat plants, you know, not as good. And beef in particular, cattle are the baddies. They are just spectacularly inefficient converters of their feed into our food.

[Michael Kosta]

And you've actually made some dietary changes in your life because of this.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah.

[Michael Kosta]

You actually live it well.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, as any vegan will tell you, veganism is the best diet.

[Michael Kosta]

Right. Thank you. Thank you.

[Jordan Klepper]

I am not a ve.

[Michael Kosta]

I knew that was coming, but I wanted to hear it.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, look, you know, you all find the level of hypocrisy that you're comfortable with. Yeah. But I have cut out beef and lamb because cattle are really the problem. And so dairy is. Dairy's bad. It's even worse than chicken and pork. But cattle make, you know, they make milk several times a day. They make beef like once in their life. And so beef is about 10 times worse than chicken or pork from a climate perspective.

[Michael Kosta]

Talk about some of the. You mention this a lot in the book, these alternative protein sources. I mean, when Beyond Meat came out years ago, the stock price was $250 a share. I looked it up. Today it's two. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talk a little bit about how you tackled that in the book.

[Jordan Klepper]

You know, it's funny, I started my reporting in 2019 at the Good Food Institute conference, which is kind of the Convening for all the different kinds of fake meats and fake milts, Everybody who's trying to replace animal agriculture. And it was right after beyond went public and the exuberance was just off the charts. There were kind of serious conversations about whether we're going to get rid of the entire $1.5 trillion meat industry in 10 or 15 years. My joke was that I thought I was going to accidentally raise a series a round in the drinks line, right? And then I actually had. Near the end of my reporting, I went back to the Good food Institute in 2023. And of course, by then, you know, the entire boom had busted and it was all doom and gloom and, you know, what were we even thinking, taking on this incredibly entrenched industry? And my feeling is that, you know, the sort of the peak of inflated expectations was excessive, and now the trough of disillusionment is excessive. That this is a very exciting technology. Right now it's only 90% as good as meat and it costs a little bit more. So if you're not writing a book about food and the climate, there's not really a good reason to buy it. So it hasn't done so well in the marketplace. But the cow is a pretty mature technology and this stuff isn't.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, one thing that's great in the book is there are optimistic moments. And you talk about how, hey, the impossible burger or beyond meat, it's a lot better than the vegan hockey puck of 20 years ago. So we have room to improve. What are some of the other solutions?

[Jordan Klepper]

Yeah, I mean, look, I mean, I do think that, you know, 20 years ago when I started writing about energy and climate, there were no alternatives to fossil fuels.

[Michael Kosta]

Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

And right now, we're in the midst of this clean energy revolution, and it's just sort of a question of when. Now, food and land were sort of 20 years behind. We're at that place where everybody's upset about all the progress that Donald Trump is rolling back for clean energy. Well, for clean food, we don't really have any progress to roll back. Nothing has gotten traction. But I've seen all kinds of exciting solutions, not just the fake meats, but I've seen alternative fertilizers where they gene edit microbes to snatch nitrogen out of the air and feed it to crops, or alternative pesticides where they use the, the technology, the MRNA stuff behind the COVID vaccines to literally constipate potato beetles to death. Right. It's incredible. At the University of Illinois, they are literally reinventing photosynthesis which has done like a pretty decent job maintaining life on earth for a few billion years. But it turns out it's really inefficient. And they are using artificial intelligence, gene editing, big data to essentially engineer out the inefficiencies. And they think they can increase yields 50%.

[Michael Kosta]

They take agriculture very seriously at University of Illinois. It's my alma mater. They put the library underground because they didn't want to bulldoze their experimental plot of corn.

[Jordan Klepper]

Exactly.

[Michael Kosta]

Well, the Morrow plots. So yeah, grass fed beef. I buy my eggs from a small farm. I get my dairy from the farmer's market. I buy grass fed beef. I'm a hero.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes, Michael, I'm sorry. But you know, it's great. Eating local is fine and knowing your farmer, that's wonderful. But what really matters from a climate and environmental perspective is sort of what you're eating and how it's grown, how efficiently it's grown. Right. We're on track to deforest another dozen Californias worth of land by 2050. And grass fed beef, for one thing, it's beef. So it's, you know, it's already a huge climate and land use problem, but it's actually worse than factory, you know, factory farmed beef because, you know, first of all, it's like less efficient, but it's also, it takes them longer to get to slaughter weight. So they're alive to burp and fart methane for longer.

[Michael Kosta]

And we're going to have to be more efficient. See, you said fart.

[Commercial Announcer]

They laughed.

[Michael Kosta]

We're going to have to be, and this is somewhat controversial, we actually have to be more efficient with the land we use for the calories that we make.

[Jordan Klepper]

That's right. We're going to have to make more food with less land and fewer emissions. Right. Because if you're making less food per acre, you're going to need more acres to make food. And that just means more deforestation, more wetland destruction. I think people think, because Michael Pollan's a really great writer and we've all seen that we want to treat our soil with love and these farms where the animals have names instead of numbers, that this is kind of good farming and that the real environmental disaster was when we intensified it and sort of drenched it in chemicals and started treating animals badly. And there are a lot of bad things about industrial agriculture. The way they treat animals, the way they treat humans. They use too many antibiotics. Their politics usually suck. Yeah, but look, factories are really good at manufacturing lots of stuff. And the real environmental disaster was the Transformation of nature into those nice Michael Pollen farms. That's when we lost the biodiversity, that's when we lost the carbon. And so we are going to need high yield agriculture. And you know, it doesn't mean it has to be factory farms, but if we have factory farms, we'd like to have them do it with less mass. And if we're going to have the nice organic farms, they're going to have to make more food per acre.

[Michael Kosta]

And we need more food. Coming up. We need lots more food. You know, a couple years ago, I was alone in the woods of Pennsylvania and I ate some mushrooms and I found myself tripping, touching these trees, feeling the trees, and it felt so powerful and it felt so magical. And I was literally like, holy shit, a tree, man. They're amazing. For years I was like, I was just tripping. But I read your book and I'm going, no, I wasn't tripping. I was right. Trees are the answer to all this shit, right? It's true. Trees are the answer.

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, trees, trees are good, man.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah. What if we, instead of bulldozing the forests, what if we just put the cows in the trees?

[Jordan Klepper]

I mean, you know, they are putting more trees in pastures and that's great. You can actually see the carbon. It's above the ground, you know, it's great. I mean, maybe we need to grow more mushrooms too.

[Michael Kosta]

Yeah, maybe. Your first book, the Swamp, explores how Florida became Florida and how man controlled water. And I love your book. It's changed the way I've looked at our country and the state of Florida and water quality. What's one thing you can share with me, with all of us, that we can learn about water quality in this country, what we should know about water in our rivers and lakes?

[Jordan Klepper]

Well, it's funny, I mean, I know this is literally talking my book, but the problem is agriculture. And it was, I didn't really think about it, but with the Everglades, I wrote about the sugar industry, which was using so much water.

[Michael Kosta]

Water.

[Jordan Klepper]

And also polluting, polluting so much water. And that's what you see around the country. The reason the aquifers under California are parched are because of the agriculture on top of it. The reason the Colorado river is running dry is because they're growing alfalfa next to it and using a lot of water to feed livestock. The reason there's a dead zone the size of the size of Connecticut and the Gulf of Mexico is because of fertilizer running out of farm, running off farms in the Mississippi, Mississippi Valley.

[Michael Kosta]

The reason there's toxic algae blooms in so many lakes is because agricultural runoff of over fertilizing. Right.

[Jordan Klepper]

It's, you know, it's an agricultural problem. And look, we need agriculture because we got to eat and we haven't come up with a better way to do it. And you know, we should appreciate that our farmers, they do hard work. They, you know, the, you know, 0.5% of us who farm make it possible for the other 99.5% of us to have cool shows and write books about the problems with agriculture and be doctors and influencers.

[Michael Kosta]

You did a great job talking about because of farmers, we get to do these other cool jobs.

[Jordan Klepper]

That's right.

[Michael Kosta]

And so we are appreciative and thankful, but maybe there's a better way to do it.

[Jordan Klepper]

Exactly. I mean, look, they also, you know, we give them a lot of money and we don't have a lot of environmental regulations for them. And I think, you know, a lot of them, they think correctly that they care a lot about their land. They think of themselves as good stewards of their lands. But we have to have a kind of more grown up relationship with them where we say, like, yeah, sure, your heartland values are great, but collectively you're stewarding a mess and we want you to make even more food and we'll help you, but you're going to have to do it with less mess. And hopefully we can help with that too.

[Michael Kosta]

The book's amazing. Everyone should read it. We are Eating the Earth is available now. Michael Grunwald. We'll take a quick break. We'll be right back after this. Thank you, man. Thank you so much. You talk forever, Victoria.

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Peacock we sell toilet tissue and local newspapers. That is in order of quality. From the crew that brought you the office. My name is Ned Sampson. I am your new editor in chief.

[Jordan Klepper]

Comes a new comedy series.

[Michael Kosta]

Have you read this paper? Uh huh.

It sucks. But we are going to make it better. Meet the underdog journalists.

[Jordan Klepper]

I hope it's not too disruptive to.

[Michael Kosta]

Have me shake everything up.

Don't be so self defecating with major issues.

Oscar. Oh, God, not again.

[Jordan Klepper]

The paper only on Peacock.

[Michael Kosta]

Streaming now. That's our show for tonight. Now here it is, your moment of Zen.

[Jordan Klepper]

The video from October 2024 shown during a congressional hearing today on unexplained anomalous phenomena. That's the official name for UFOs.

[Michael Kosta]

Do you solemnly swear several service members.

[Jordan Klepper]

Giving their own eyewitness accounts and reacting.

To that new video.

[Michael Kosta]

Does this video scare you guys? Yes or no?

Yes.

Wiggins.

Yes.

[Jordan Klepper]

Yes.

[Michael Kosta]

Explore more shows from the Daily show podcast universe by searching the Daily Show.

[Commercial Announcer]

Wherever you get your podcast, watch the.

[Michael Kosta]

Daily show weeknights at 1110 Central on Comedy Central and stream full episodes anytime on Paramount. Plus, this has been a Comedy Central podcast.

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