Carson Hocevar Needs to Hear This

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download — "Carson Hocevar Needs to Hear This"

Podcast: The Dale Jr. Download
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. (with Travis and guest Jamie McMurray)
Date: July 28, 2026
Main Theme:
A deep-dive Brickyard recap, candid analysis of Indy racing and passing challenges, the rise and personality of Carson Hocevar, and rich behind-the-scenes stories about the NASCAR community, rivalries, and qualifying drama — all delivered with signature locker-room banter and racing-insider perspective.

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Episode Overview

This Brickyard edition of The Dale Jr. Download features Dale Earnhardt Jr., guest host Jamie McMurray (filling in for a missing regular), and Travis. The central theme revolves around a detailed breakdown of the Brickyard race, the ongoing rivalry between Carson Hocevar and Corey Heim, the challenges of racing (and winning) at Indianapolis, candid reflections on driver personalities and media coverage, and classic stories from inside the NASCAR world. The guys are loose, reflective, and don’t shy away from opinion, offering a blend of technical insights and hilarious war stories for NASCAR diehards and casual fans alike.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Brickyard Race Recap & Analysis

• Difficulty of Passing at Indy
  • Jamie: “Great racing is typically a lot of passing, and we did not have any passing at Indy.” (03:05)
  • Indy’s prestige comes from the fact that "everything has to go your way": track position, restarts, pit timing, and cautious luck are paramount.
• Corey Heim's Strategic Victory
  • Both hosts praise how “everything went Heim’s way”—restarts, pit strategy, driver execution. Heim’s mental toughness and ability to "manipulate the air" were highlighted (05:20).
  • Noted that even faster cars, like Hocevar’s, couldn't pass due to track conditions and car setup.

2. The Carson Hocevar vs. Corey Heim Rivalry

• Media Magnetism & PR Smarts
  • Jamie: “Carson is low hanging fruit… he says a lot of things to fuel this. But the fact that Corey is running as well as he is… Listen, if, if, if Carson flips Corey off for 25th place, who cares? Like nobody’s paying attention.” (11:36)
  • Both drivers are talented, and their rivalry is primed to animate NASCAR for a decade.
• Host Strategies and Rivalry Management
  • Dale Jr.: “You can't make everyone mad… Or what we saw happen on Sunday, where Carson's just trying to get his lap back from the leader.” (16:17)
  • Jamie, as an analyst, says, “If I were Carson's coach, like, what do we have to do to win a championship? I would say, don't do what you're doing right now.” (15:56)

3. The Importance of Authenticity and Social Media in NASCAR

• Jamie: “What I have learned is that I should just embrace what [Carson] is doing and just go with the flow.” (13:00)
• Discussion on how social media has allowed personalities to shine (e.g., Carson, Cletus McFarlane influence), and comparison to stars like Jimmie Johnson.
• “Just be who you are, and if you’re a little goofy or if you’re not… crisp and corporate, it’s okay.” (17:52)

4. Racing Strategy, Restarts, and Indy as a Crown Jewel

• Restarts and Racecraft
  • In-depth talk on intricacies of restarts, hand signals, and spotter communication (23:46). The team praises Heim’s calculated aggression.
• Indy’s Place in NASCAR
  • Both agree it’s still a “crown jewel” and that the entire garage “has always tried to bring their best car to Indy.” (40:12 - Jamie)
  • “It’s the Brickyard, man… it's prestigious, man. When I look at the schedule, I still notice where Indy is.” (38:32 - Dale Jr.)

5. Race Format, Cautions, and Improving the Show

• Discussion about long, drawn-out caution periods and the need for NASCAR to tweak stage break/yellow flag rules for better fan experience (52:18-56:22).
• Jamie proposes a “common ground” between teams, TV, and NASCAR on how to handle cautions near stage ends. Dale Jr. supports clearer, earlier cutoff rules.

6. Qualifying Drama: The Metric System vs. Ping Pong Draw

• The group debates the fairness of NASCAR’s qualifying metric when rain cancels sessions.
  • Jamie: “I vote for a change… I’d like to see a shake-up in the qualifying.” (72:26)
  • Dale Jr. prefers a return to points-based or random drawings for entertainment and fairness (74:41).
• Travis jokes: “Is this a professional thing or is this fifth-grade basketball?” (75:18)
• Reflection that the current system is a COVID holdover, and the ping pong ball era created more storylines.

7. Personalities, Pranks & Classic Stories

• Jamie and Dale Jr. reminisce about Sterling Marlin’s pranks, wild road trips (Petey Pablo on balconies, foam parties), and shenanigans with fellow drivers.
  • “Sterling had put one of those little quarter sticks of dynamite underneath the van that we were in. And I'll tell you something, when it went off, I knew it was a prank, but I also saw fire shoot up the sides of the van.” (85:07 - Jamie)
• Jamie tells the infamous story of his “ass on TV”—caught changing after a local race and finding out via his wife and Elliott Sadler’s texts (80:14-82:36).

8. Carson Hocevar’s Breakthrough and Work Ethic

• Hocevar’s first major win is celebrated as a deserved breakthrough after heartbreaks at Atlanta, Phoenix, and Dover.
  • Jamie: “Carson came so close so many times...” (63:28)
  • Dale Jr.: Praises Hocevar’s relentless work ethic and self-motivation. “He puts in more effort than probably any young driver that I've worked with.” (70:17)
• View that this victory is not a fluke, but the result of hard work and persistence.

9. Playoffs, Contenders, and Who’s Hot

• Intense chat about the playoff bubble, drivers peaking at the right time, and who might surprise in the final races.
  • Joey Logano’s recent surge; Blaney's “smart racing,” and Bell’s potential as a sleeper are highlighted. (98:20–110:16)
  • “A bad day for Denny should be about a seventh.” (104:01 – Dale Jr.)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Carson is low hanging fruit…he says a lot of things to fuel this, and the fact that Corey is running as well as he is. Listen, if Carson flips Corey off for 25th place, who cares?" — Jamie, 11:36
• “If I were Carson's coach…I would say don’t do what you’re doing right now. You’re making too many people mad.” — Jamie, 15:56
• "Just be who you are, and if you’re a little goofy…it's okay." — Jamie, 17:52
• “I think the metric is fair if it rains…I would like to see a shake up in the qualifying.” — Jamie, 72:48; “Points should matter more… you shouldn't be penalized for last week’s finish.” — Dale Jr., 74:41
• “Sterling had put one of those little quarter sticks of dynamite underneath the van that we were in…it went off, I knew it was a prank, but I also saw fire shoot up the sides of the van...” — Jamie, 85:07
• “He puts in more effort than probably any young driver that I’ve worked with.” — Dale Jr. on Carson Hocevar, 70:17
• “A bad day for Denny should be about a seventh.” — Dale Jr., 104:01

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Timestamps For Key Segments

• 03:05 — Jamie's high-altitude Indy race review; passing (or the lack thereof)
• 05:20 — Examining Corey Heim’s composure, strategy, and win
• 11:36 — Hocevar-Heim rivalry media coverage; "low hanging fruit" commentary
• 16:17 — Jamie’s analyst take: why Hocevar should change his approach to win a title
• 23:46 — Inside the restart game: hand signals, radio, and spotters
• 38:32 — Indy’s “crown jewel” status and history; emotional weight of a Brickyard win
• 52:18 — The stage break and caution debate: “We have to fix this.” (Jamie)
• 72:26 — Qualifying format argument: points, metrics, and randomness
• 80:14 — Jamie’s infamous "ass on TV" story and prank memories
• 85:07 — Sterling Marlin dynamite prank van story
• 63:28 / 70:17 — Carson Hocevar’s breakthrough and tireless work ethic
• 98:20–110:16 — Playoff bubble talk, dark horses, and points war

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Final Thoughts

This nearly two-hour episode combines incisive NASCAR analysis and hilarious storytelling. From Brickyard strategy to the inside scoop on up-and-coming drivers and the quirks of qualifying, Dale Jr. and Jamie McMurray offer insights only longtime garage insiders can. The rivalry between Hocevar and Heim is explored not just as drama but as a lens through which to view NASCAR’s evolving personalities. Moments of candor, nostalgia, and outright laughter make it a must-listen (or must-read) for anyone following the Cup Series—as well as those in search of old-school racer tales and advice for NASCAR’s next generation.

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This summary preserves the humor, directness, and friendship-filled banter that defines The Dale Jr. Download, ensuring both deep fans and new listeners leave with a firm grasp on the race weekend, current storylines, and the pulse of the NASCAR garage.

Transcript

[Travis]

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[Dale Jr.]

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[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Yes.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know if we've ever argued. Did I piss you off over the

weekend or I'm still sour that I was the best man at your wedding.

[Travis]

Who was your best man, Dale?

[Dale Jr.]

Tj.

Tj.

You don't need a cool vest for that race. What are you Thinking, get him, tj. Hell. Way to start the show.

All right, then. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Dell Jr. Download, the Brickyard edition. And I've been looking forward to this episode because, man, someone's not here and it's been kind of nice, but we've got a great replacement. Jamie McMurray, thank you for coming in.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Are you excited that Dale's not here? Are you excited that I am here?

[Dale Jr.]

Both.

[Travis]

Yeah. We, we just wanted a Brickyard champion to come on to host this race. And Dale, great call. Fill those.

[Dale Jr.]

That's actually a good point.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, it's great call.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. We just kept blowing tires and we had a shot at.

[Jamie McMurray]

I remember that year.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it was challenging year there. But this episode is presented by Arby's. Don't forget about Arby's. New meat and three box. Get more meal for your money at Darby's. We have the meats. So what did you think about the Brickyard? I mean, what's your, you know, overall race take? 40,000ft.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. So I think you have to. Well, first off, I, I think great racing is typically a lot of passing and we did not have. We didn't have any passing.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

At Indy, however, the one thing that we talked about in our pre race show is that part of what makes Indy special and so hard to win is that everything has to go your way. And you look at Corey Heim, the cautions fell right. They had the right pitch strategy. He did a great job as a driver. He was able to get the restart he needed at the right time. So it, it played out exactly, I think, how we thought. No one went into Indy thinking that it was going to be this, you know, the leaders, a sitting duck you're going to get past.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I feel like going to Indy, we always kind of feel like that, you know what I mean? Even 10 years ago, I think when you went to Indy, you knew it was going to be hard to pass and you knew you needed track position at the right time. And if you had it, you had a really good shot at winning the race. I think it's always. It's definitely more of a.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's magnified now.

[Dale Jr.]

It's definitely magnified now. But, man, I don't ever remember going to India and being like, man, we're just going to draft up there and pass the guy.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's never going to happen. And honestly, it doesn't happen. I feel like people will praise the Saturday races, but I think about Raja staying out on 25 or 30 lap tires on the stage. I know now he wasn't going to hold it off, you know, for multiple laps, but. But he did for two.

[Dale Jr.]

Justin. I mean, he. Justin played really nice with him. Yeah, but. Yeah, I mean, I. You're right though. With Indy though, that makes it. It's. Everything's times 10 there and you got to have the great resource. You got to qualifying, you got to get cautions at the right time. Everything has to go your way and everybody has to execute perfectly to win that race. And everything went, you know, Corey's way and. And he executed in qualifying race trim. You know, the guys made the right call in the box and got the caution at the right time and was able to and be up there. And we all know Corey's super talented and going to be. He can get it done when he's out front. He proved that. I mean, he had, you know, he held off the best of the best and won the race.

[Jamie McMurray]

So it almost reminds you somewhat of a. Of a speedway race because it, you know, if you go back to the restart, ultimately the restart cost Corey Heim the lead When Joey tried to make it three wide. And fortunately for Corey, we got to restart three or four laps later. And then he wasn't in the preferred position. But the Gibbs cars couldn't get connected and lined up. And so he got the lead because of a restart. But you can't take anything away from what Corey did throughout the whole weekend. I heard bell after the race say how mentally tough that Corey Heim was to put it all together for the last 30 laps. As I was watching the race preparing for the post race show, the car was on edge, like he was on edge. You could see him get loose. And the one thing we've learned with the cup car right now is that there's no driving. It yawed out. Right. Like once you get yawed out, you spin out. So he did an awesome job being able to manipulate the air. And honestly, once he got to the lead, I didn't think there was any chance that bell would ever pass him. Mainly because if you go back to earlier in the race when. When Heim was blocking, I mean, he's on 35 lap older tires. And even though host of our was, I mean, he might have been three quarters of a second faster, he couldn't pass him.

[Dale Jr.]

And he's super aggressive too, with his moves.

[Jamie McMurray]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

Did you see. I thought I saw Corey get into one a few times and I swear I could see the back skating on the entry.

[Jamie McMurray]

I saw it off turn two a Couple of times where he would get to the throttle and you're. And you. It just. It just was like on the edge. And honestly, I was thinking, I don't know why you're driving so close to the edge when all you got when you're just going to air block him when you get to the corner.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Do you. I mean, I think sometimes maybe some of the balance shift in the car, though, like, you're really good in traffic, but if you get out front, you know, the. More air, like. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

I mean, I don't know. I don't know exactly the situation that he was in.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

The.

[Jamie McMurray]

You know, the one thing about Indy is that you can be in traffic a lot, but for the most part, that race just spreads out and, you know, and you Every laugh gets a little. A little farther apart. Yeah. So. But you. I mean, you also just have to think of. I'm telling you, the. The pressure of those restarts and. And he made me laugh because he came on the. Corey Heim came on the radio with. I don't know, I think it was 23 laps to go. And he's like, how many to go? And I feel like he was hoping they were gonna say 10. Yeah, 23. And he was just, like, shrugged, like, oh.

[Dale Jr.]

Even. Even Saturday, when Carson passed Ross for the lead, I looked at the amount of laps left, and I was like, that's a lot of laps still.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's a minute per lap for the most part. If it's 20 laps, what I was thinking, 20 more minutes till this is over.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

And I'm up there like, man, we just got to lead. Oh, there's 20 something. I'm like, oh, God, that's a long time.

[Jamie McMurray]

I thought about. I thought about Phoenix when he got to the lead, because I remember. What other race did Carson get to the lead? Well, Vegas, maybe.

[Dale Jr.]

No, we were leading. Definitely leading Phoenix. I mean, we were leading Atlanta two weeks ago, but.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, you're right. Atlanta also. Yeah. And I. So a couple of those races.

[Dale Jr.]

Dover a couple years ago, like, his second race ever, he was leading.

[Jamie McMurray]

I remember that. You just never know in those. It also seems like cautions will fall with the green white checkered in those events. But yeah, man, those are long laps at indy.

[Travis]

If it's 20 minutes, as a driver, does it feel like it's 40 minutes? Does it feel longer?

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I don't know exactly how to answer that. I would say that from in the car. The other thing that makes Indy so much harder is there's twice as many Corners, like, when you think about, you know, 20 laps, I'm trying to think Michigan is another one that has a 40 second lap time. You're really only running two corners. You have two entries, two exits. But when you get to Indy, I mean, turns one and turn three are, are incredibly difficult entries. And then the exit of 2 and 4 to make sure you get your lap time. So it's, it's almost magnified. I think Indy would be the hardest track for those laps.

[Dale Jr.]

It is. And the two most important coordinates in Indy are, are 2 and 4. And Carson was really strong in 2. So I was watching when he'd go out of my view. I would watch it on the computer and just kind of see where the, see where Justin was better, where he could catch him and, and things like that and where we'd have, if he did get there, where we'd have to defend the most and, and, but the, the O'Reilly car is unique though, because if a guy gets close enough to you, it takes the back out of the track a little bit and you can manipulate some air like that. But yeah, both.

[Jamie McMurray]

The O'Reilly race, though, of course, I'm in the booth calling it and I always, and we've been so lucky for the last two years of CW having these races that it just seems like the fastest car is always in like third or fifth at the end of the race. And so you're, I'm watching, I'm like, and I'm trying to do the math in my head. I'm like, well, there's 10 laps left. He's three tenths a lap quicker. He's going to get there. Like, I, you know, you're trying to do that and that makes it so much fun to watch those when the faster guy is running them down.

[Dale Jr.]

I was watching the Times and literally, I mean, Carson was really good in the corners, but just the draft, man, and those cars, like, just pulls you up and like, it's a good package

[Jamie McMurray]

for O'Reilly at that track.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, and they're on edge too. Like, I mean, they're not. They're, they're. Carson said, you know, if you miss turn two by a foot, you were going to plow and have to lift on the exit and.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Which is what it should be.

[Dale Jr.]

That's what it should be. It should be pressure like that. What do you think, Travis, about Corey's on the radio.

[Travis]

What do you mean on the radio?

[Dale Jr.]

Well, him.

[Travis]

You talking about his post race interview. Yeah, I listen, I, I want this rivalry to continue with him and host Savar.

[Dale Jr.]

I do too.

[Jamie McMurray]

What do you mean post race on the radio?

[Travis]

So I think he, when he said radio, I think he meant just.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Post race. After the race taught media they kept

[Travis]

asking him about host of our in the media center. Yeah. And he asked what place did he finish and they said ninth. And he's like, you ask a lot about a driver and I get it. You just won and you're probably annoyed but like when you have a R like this, you're going to get asked about it and I'm here for it. That they're kind of embracing it though.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I, to me, what's going to make this special is that I think they're both really talented and for the next, let's just say 10 years, maybe 15 years, this will continue. I, I don't sense this getting any better. Carson is low hanging fruit on, on. He says a lot of things to, to fuel this and the fact that you know, Corey is running as well as he is. I mean that listen, if, if, if Carson flips Corey off for 25th place, who cares? Like nobody's paying attention.

[Dale Jr.]

We probably don't even see it.

[Jamie McMurray]

You don't. But, but the fact that the leader was, was essentially blocking Carson from, from advancing his position and then they pit. I mean like it just, you couldn't. It's perfect. Yeah, it lined up exactly what you want.

[Travis]

But I think you set it on the broadcast when they went to you guys at the desk a couple weeks ago on the, the pre set. Pre race set host var said if you want a war, bring it. Well you just. Which you asked drivers to bring it and guess what? Your enemy was in front of you and he did what you asked.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

And so the Carson host of our thing is, it's, it's a challenge from my perspective of being on tv and I have tried really hard to explain my position on this and it has not come across correctly because I read the comments on social media and I'm like, well that's not what I meant to say because the reality is I like Carson. I think he is exactly what nascar, the sport you want someone who's willing to say just the random stuff he says Different. Yeah, it's totally different. And, and he's fast. Which, which, which helps my take on Carson is that I have as an analyst, you know, I'm there to analyze what a driver thinks. And so I'm putting myself in the position of the other 30 guys that he's racing against every week. And I Can't help but think he just. I'm like, just put the shovel down. Stop fueling the fire. Because you can. And Denny said this. I believe you can make one guy mad. Like, if you want to make Corey Hyim mad, that's fine. But you can't make everyone mad. Or to me, what we saw happen on Sunday where Carson's just trying to get his lap back from the leader. You can't have everybody against you. But what I have learned is that I should just embrace what he's doing and just go with the flow.

[Dale Jr.]

On is unique. I mean, we haven't really had somebody come along in quite a while. That, that just.

[Jamie McMurray]

There's been. Listen, he's.

[Dale Jr.]

He's.

[Jamie McMurray]

He's one of one.

[Dale Jr.]

He is. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, there is no one else. And, And I, I feel like he has bonded with Cletus McFarlane and it's almost like he's taking his success and speed and ability with. With a good team now and has brought in a little bit of Cletus to the equation. I heard Carson say on Sunday during an interview, the last words out of his mouth were like, well, hopefully we can sell more T shirts. And I'm like, well, he's a promoter and I don't know that maybe he believes everything he says. And it doesn't matter to me now if he does or not because it gets good clips and we all laugh about it. And every week in the TV world, his name comes up because it is a talking point. So he's doing probably exactly what he wants to do.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, I guess there's no. The. What's the saying? There's no bad coverage or, you know, in the news.

[Jamie McMurray]

Any PR is good pr.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, any PR is good pr. So he is doing that every week and. But he's back. The biggest part to me is he's still backing it up on the track because if he doesn't have speed on the track and is competitive at times,

[Jamie McMurray]

you have to be relevant.

[Dale Jr.]

You have to be relevant totally. If you, you start to not be relevant, you. That fades away and it doesn't become a talking point anymore. Someone else is going to be in there. So it's important that he needs to be fast still. And he's doing a great job at that. I mean, he laid down a heck of a lap for qualifying. So, yeah, it's fun to talk about and fun to see. It's not fun to race against at times as a competitor. So.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I, so. And that's what I think that's what I tried to get across and everyone was taking it that I didn't like him. It has nothing to do with whether I liked him or disliked him. It's that I was trying to put myself in the position. If I were Carson's coach, like, what do we have to do to go win a championship? I would say, don't do what you're doing right now.

[Dale Jr.]

You're making too many people mad.

[Jamie McMurray]

If you make everyone mad, it's going to be whoever wins the championship this year. Someone's going to cut him a break. A couple of people are going to cut him a break because maybe in the past you cut them a break. Right. That's just how comes around. Whether fans want to believe that or not. Being a good guy goes a long ways in a lot of these scenarios. And so as I watch everything he's doing, I'm like, you're never going to get cut a break. The guy's always going to stop, shortness, pit stall, to block you in just a little bit.

[Dale Jr.]

One race. One race is all it takes.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's all it takes. Yeah. And so my perspective on that was always trying to be. And I think I used it because I have a kid that races. And so I used it as like. Well, this is what I would tell my son Carter, like this. I wouldn't do that. And here's why. And every time I would say that on tv, people would be like, the hatred for Carson host far continues. I'm like, well, because. Nothing to do with that.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. You're like, it's taking away from the show.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, yeah. And. And then listen, fans, and. And this is a. And. And I, I agree with them. And I sat next to Jimmy Johnson for the last five weeks. The greatest guy to ever sit in a car. And Jimmy's only fault is, is that we never got to see the real Jimmy. Like, if anything. And Dale kind of brought up the Jimmy Jam thing.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

And like what Jimmy was like away from the racetrack if. If somehow we could have tied in.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, my God.

[Jamie McMurray]

Johnson was away from the racetrack to what he could do on the track. He would have been without a doubt the all time favorite.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

I don't.

I'm not sure. I don't know how you could be.

[Jamie McMurray]

Or he might not have had a job actually.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, he might not. Yeah, he might. He might not have. Yeah. A lot of fun.

[Jamie McMurray]

He's a lot of fun. But Jimmy would drew a line between those two. And I, I think that's a fair argument. That fans, you know, drivers were very corporate for so long and that they, you know, just wouldn't show exactly who they were. But times are a little bit different now, and because of social media and the fact that the best social media content is just real. Just be who you are, and if you're a little goofy or if you're not, you know, just crisp and corporate, it's okay. And to me, that's opened up what we see from guys on Saturdays or Sundays, they can be a little bit more of who they are, and it's acceptable.

[Dale Jr.]

Sure. Yeah.

[Travis]

Yeah. I always go back. Denny always brings up. It's about deposits and withdrawals.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And right now, I don't know how much deposits he has to then use.

[Jamie McMurray]

But the one thing that I am really jealous of with Carson Hocovar is that he has fun when he races.

[Dale Jr.]

He does have a lot of fun.

[Travis]

His radio is like.

[Jamie McMurray]

I know. Like, I could never. I could never. Like, when I got in a car, I just was like, I just. I wanted to win, and I wanted to do everything perfect and right, and I never really relaxed and just enjoyed the moment, and I mean it. He seems to really enjoy everything he's doing.

[Dale Jr.]

He does. Yeah. Even. Even honestly and sometimes in his. In the not so great days, too, he still. I mean, he's doing a good job of. Of that. Um, Travis, you want to talk about your favorite part of the show?

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Denny Hamlin has gets control of the race. Honestly, when Denny got control of the race, I was like, man, it's going to be tough to get back around Denny here.

[Jamie McMurray]

I, I need some content real quick because I, I listen to obviously Denny's podcast. I listen to this weekly every week. I don't really know what the Denny Bros. Is. What is that?

[Travis]

Well, you're sitting in the seat of the guy that created that saying.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, actually he came up with the term, but he came up because of you. And.

[Jamie McMurray]

But who are these people?

[Dale Jr.]

Who's.

It's like, hey, it started out as

[Travis]

so because I do his podcast and root for him and friends with him. You know, Dale and I always tweet about him during the races. So then Dale then started calling me the Denny Bros. Well, then it's. Then it grew to the other friends of Denny's that go to the races and hang out and so I mean, we have a chat of.

[Jamie McMurray]

You have a text chain. Is that what you have going on?

[Travis]

There's about seven people in it and Denny's in it. Denny's actually the one that renamed the group chat to Denny Bros. Oh, he's

[Dale Jr.]

definitely right with it.

[Jamie McMurray]

He'll read the text post race and kind of figures out like what moment you're referring to.

[Travis]

On the flight home, he'll read through it and it's like this past weekend was lively. There's some times where it's not as crazy, but it's entertaining. The ditty boats are actually, we're going to Richmond and they gave us three campsites and so we're actually going to go up and tailgate.

[Jamie McMurray]

How many people are there?

[Travis]

I think seven of us are going,

[Jamie McMurray]

okay, you have three campsites for seven people.

[Travis]

We need some space to party.

[Dale Jr.]

This literally reminds me of, of us like maybe 15 years ago, like, we all traveled as a little group.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Almost everywhere. I mean. I mean, you. You were at a lot of events, did a lot of things that we did, too. So, I mean, that's fun. Yeah. They have a good time. Yeah. They have a little bro, and he is. Travis, is. Are you the ringleader of this group?

[Travis]

Oh, 100%.

[Dale Jr.]

I knew it. The.

[Travis]

But it's funny, those people on Twitter, like, oh, you're obsessed with Danny. I'm like, sorry that I root for the guy that I produce this show. And as a friend, like, would you like me to root for Ross?

[Jamie McMurray]

I think it's fair.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

And you're. Yeah, you. You are a little biased, but it's okay.

[Dale Jr.]

You.

[Jamie McMurray]

You're invested. The Internet, right?

[Dale Jr.]

The Internet hammers him.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. I can only imagine.

[Travis]

Oh, they get so pretty funny.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Travis]

But, yeah, I don't. That restart. I honestly think he would have been better off not telling Lambert to go talk to the 20. Just focus on your start, because I think then the 20 spotter goes and talks to 19.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, everyone's listening these days, so we can't relay messages on restart stuff. Going back to Atlanta, the O'Reilly race. Carson's leading the race. We have the 39 pushing us. I was working with Fedora, but I told Carson I would tell him what we're basically going to do right. When we're getting to the zone. Because if you say it a lot before everyone's building a game plan, can

[Jamie McMurray]

you pull the restart up? Here's what. And Dale and I talked about this on the flight home. The one thing that I noticed that Denny didn't do on the restart that you see most people do when you're on the inside is put your hand out the window when you're going to accelerate.

[Travis]

Right.

[Jamie McMurray]

And. And just so that you understand, if you're listening to this, if you're in the outside lane and you put your hand out the window and you. And you wave, the inside lane knows, like. So it doesn't really do any good if you're on the outside, but if you're on the inside, they can't see. And. And I didn't see Denny's hand out the window, and I just feel like that would almost have been better communication than the verbal over the radio.

[Dale Jr.]

If you're on the inside lane, yes, you can definitely. You can definitely do that a lot easier in, like, Atlanta. We were outside lane, so we had to. We had to do what we could to protect it. Um, but, yeah, you're Right. You can a lot of these inside. Lane resource. The guy, the driver normally just calls him up to, you know, hand out the window, go, yeah, when you get. I'm gonna go when you get to my bumper, Travis.

[Jamie McMurray]

I feel like that probably should have been in the Denny Bros text of like, hey, Denny, why didn't you put

[Travis]

your hand out the window? So we did. I did ask him out in the show yesterday and I forget what he said though, and I'm mad at myself now for his reasoning. And then Jared asked, do you think you should have been better off? He asked or no, we asked him about. He talked to Bell. He didn't talk to Briscoe, but Bell said that Briscoe was pushing him early. And then Bell's trying to lay off, but he can't. You can only break so much.

[Jamie McMurray]

Then he said they started pushing him like way before the zone.

[Travis]

And so then he's like, I can't go. And he's fearful of Nashville now with a start.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And so he said he's like kind of on the break a little bit. And so it sounds like they just went early. But I think to your point, though, all you have to do is just tell the 20, like, hey, please don't get out of line.

[Jamie McMurray]

But I think we need.

[Travis]

And then do the hand.

[Jamie McMurray]

We probably felt good that Bell was going to stay.

[Travis]

He's not going to pull. He's not going to do what Logano did to him.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, that's. Yeah, you can't do that in the Cup.

[Jamie McMurray]

You're not going to win. Right. Like, you're just screwing your.

[Dale Jr.]

Your teammate, then you're screwing your whole inside lane. We all know that now, going into turn one at a mile and a half, if a guy dies to the apron, the outside lane's rolling.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

It's almost not even an advantage anymore to do that move.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And so I think if they just would have done the hand, but like, this is kind of their M.O. lately. I mean, think about Charlotte. They messed up the restart, him and Bell.

[Jamie McMurray]

Charlotte. Oh, yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

I can't remember.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I mean. And I would say, like. But Indy, like, if you're way back in line, it's hard to see the restart zone, but if you're in the front two or three rows, you would know exactly where that is.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

They got marks on the walls and

[Jamie McMurray]

fences, so it was heartbreaking for Denny, though. And I would say that from my take because I've been friends with Denny for a long time and I think he's just One of the greatest to ever do this. I want to see him complete that. Like all of the crown jewels, you know, this and the championship are the, you know, the races that he still has on his list. And he has been so close so many times. And I'm with you. Once he got the lead. Well, if the caution doesn't come out, they're not going to pass him back. He's going to.

[Dale Jr.]

No, they're not passing him.

[Jamie McMurray]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

No, I agree.

[Jamie McMurray]

But unfortunately, the caution did come out. And then. And then to just pour salt on the wound, Denny lost his momentum when Heim blocked him between 1 and 2, and for the next mile and a half, cars just went by.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, I know. He ended up. Ended up in. In fifth in front of six, in front of breath. And I was like, okay, well, maybe, maybe Denny's going to open the doors. And he almost got the 19 a couple of times, but he couldn't even get around him, so. Or did he get around him at the end, Travis?

[Travis]

No.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, so he had a couple runs.

[Travis]

He was faster than him, but he just.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, nobody passed. Yeah, I mean, that's a fact. Like, once you got single file.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And that was.

[Jamie McMurray]

There was no passing, and that was.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, Denny was quite a bit faster than a 19 right there, too. And he. He couldn't do anything with him. But. Yeah, I was, I was actually surprised. But another thing, too, is, man, the kid in the 67, super aggressive, too. So even if they go into one, he's going to be all over Denny's door. Like, it's going to be a tough restart at Indy because you don't really. You don't really have time to. To really. I don't know, everything.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, that's a weird environment, too, for Corey Heim to be in where Denny's, your owner, like, you know what I mean? Like, it's such a. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't think Corey sees that, though.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't either.

[Dale Jr.]

And I like that. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

But in all honesty, I don't think Reddick or Bubba view it that way either. I like when you watch.

[Travis]

Denny's made it clear.

[Dale Jr.]

They could have made it more clear than Kansas.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Denny's made it clear Sunday. He is not your owner.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. No, and I mean, for me watching, I can't help but be like, that's your owner and that's my car. But it doesn't matter. Those guys do a really good job of just making that another car on the track. And I'm with you. Corey Heim's Very aggressive, but he also seems very calculated. He reminds me a little bit of Denny where when you ask him a question, when they ask those questions in post race and Denny does this a lot. He thinks, thinks for just a second before he.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, you can tell. He's like.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's not just first thing that comes to his mind. It's a, it's a little bit of. It's a well thought out answer. And, and the, the blocking between. He knew he didn't have a good turn, turn one, and then he moved down to block. And I don't think he did anything wrong in that moment.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't either.

[Jamie McMurray]

But yeah, the aggression level is high. Oh.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, the aggression level now from where it was like 15 years ago was ridiculous.

[Jamie McMurray]

That is evolution. Because Without a doubt, 15 years ago, I remember the guys that had been around were like, why is everyone so aggressive? And it didn't seem aggressive. You're like, well, this is just what we do.

[Dale Jr.]

3, 1 and restart was like, oh, that guy's crazy. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

We have 500 miles. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Why are you doing that? It's lap one and now it's like, now you're four wide and it's expected.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

So how do you think Kaim will do next year where like this, this one, he had like three weeks to prepare and Booty said after San Diego. He's had three weeks to prepare for San Diego where he's gonna have to go week in and week out and he's not gonna have.

[Jamie McMurray]

It gets harder, without a doubt when you have to do it every single weekend. I just think naturally that gets more difficult. But what Corey Heim like, his timing of all of this is perfect. The fact that he ended up at 23:11 when Toyotas, I mean, they just win every weekend.

[Dale Jr.]

If you're in years, he in the trucks, I mean, he ran trucks for three, four years, something like that.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

He was in trucks for longer than I thought he ever should have been. But it's paying off now.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Because like, you know how it is. Timing is everything. You got to get in the right cars, you got to get in the right equipment, everything.

[Jamie McMurray]

And he's done that. His timing's just been perfect for all of that. But I also, I don't think that's, that's just by chance. I, I mean, I heard the rumors that he had an opportunity to go to some other teams quicker and, and waited for this opportunity to come along. So I think he's done a. He's done an awesome job. Of putting himself in the right position. And you have to just assume at this point in the year that Toyota's still going to be really good next year.

[Dale Jr.]

It might be. The playing field might level out a little bit, but they're still super fast.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

And that's, you know how it is. Fast cars.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Make.

[Jamie McMurray]

I mean, I mean, what's impressive to me about Corey as well is the tracks he won at. Like, he won San Diego. And it wasn't, it wasn't just. It wasn't because pitch strategy put him out in front and there was a wreck like he passed Tyler Reddick, who you could argue is as good at road racing as anyone.

[Dale Jr.]

I remember looking back at that race because he kind of faded early. And this is my favorite part about his San Diego win is he made the first run. We started like 20th or something like that. We actually ran Corey down and passed him before that first yellow.

[Jamie McMurray]

Brad.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And yeah, and Corey was fading. But for Corey, this is the impressive part to me is, is Corey just didn't panic, let everything kind of come to him and didn't throw his race away. And, and still at the end of the race, there he is like.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

And that's how you, you have to keep your head in the game the entire race. And I feel like he is really good at doing that. Like, okay, you might be a 14th place car right now, but you get the right, you know, you get the right caution, everything.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Bam, here's your chance. And he, he knows how to connect the pieces. He can do that in the beginning and when his time shot comes at the end, he can make it happen.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, no, he does. He does. He does everything right.

[Dale Jr.]

He did. Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's the most impressive part is like a lot of guys, you know, when they, when you're fading in the beginning, oh, it's just not my day. I'm just going to run 75, 80%, you know, not. Not wreck and stuff. But Corey knows how to. He just knows how to connect the dots.

[Travis]

You know who didn't connect the dots? The 60 team. I'm still trying to connect the dots.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, the 60 team, you know, Ryan Priest didn't have a great qualifying effort. Wasn't really. Was kind of off strategy all day, but they were off strategy to put themselves in a position to make, to get the caution if it fell right. And man, did it fall right for him. And he jumped from high 20s, low 30s to the top five. Him. What a. What a break. So ran up there, ran top 10, I think, for a while. But he was in a really good position at the end to. I think he was the best on fuel out of all the cars. And they decided to go the four tires instead of, you know, two, and lost a little track position all the way around.

The whole.

I was surprised, but I don't want

[Jamie McMurray]

to be critical of anyone, but there's. There just seems. And unless there was an issue like he thought he had flat, spotted a tire or, you know, wasn't going to make it to the end, without a doubt, they'll look back on Monday and. And know that two tires would have been the right call. And I also would say going back to Indy, being hard to pass at two tires has won that race more than four. Like, it just. It just. Whoever spends the least amount of time on pit road is who wins that

[Dale Jr.]

race, you know, wins that race every time.

[Jamie McMurray]

Track positions every time.

[Travis]

And they were going to come out at, at worst, third, but probably first, like, he needed less fuel than Haim did.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm. I mean, if you put. I.

[Jamie McMurray]

They haven't. So I don't. I don't have enough information to. To be critical or to really discuss this. Did they have an issue, like, on the right sides that made them then say, let's just go ahead and do four?

[Dale Jr.]

No, I don't think so.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. That stinks.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I. I do think if Priest gets control of that race, he's going to be hard. Anybody for that race, like, I mean, especially, you know, Priest is no slouch in the seat, and he. You put him up front, he's going to be really hard to get around.

[Travis]

So that's where I wish, you know, if. Depending on where you finish, you might be part of a media scrum, but you may not get talked to. Like, this is where I wish there was a way to ask them. Like, why? Because we're not gonna find out. And by the time we see them again, no one's talking about the race then.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, yeah, that'd be a hard.

[Dale Jr.]

They're probably playing right home. Yeah, yeah, definitely.

[Travis]

We were asking Denny about it. He goes. I don't know. He goes, why do you take four tires in Phoenix?

[Dale Jr.]

That's true.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's a good point.

[Travis]

Sometimes you make a call and like.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I mean. And that's every week, man. I mean, but they. You got to give them credit for the call they made to get the. Even be in that position, though.

[Travis]

But this one seems a little.

[Jamie McMurray]

I think the, like, the one thing that's really hard for us to evaluate is the why. Like, you'd have to go back and listen to everything else that led up to that because there could.

[Dale Jr.]

Handling that.

[Jamie McMurray]

There could have been something where he's like, I think I have a flat. Like, I don't. I don't know those answers. So if. If he's like, listen, I think the left rear is going down.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, then it makes. It makes a lot more sense.

[Dale Jr.]

So, I mean, they did have a tire issue, I think, in practice. Right? Yeah. So, I mean, maybe there was a. Maybe they didn't trust something.

[Jamie McMurray]

Maybe. Maybe something fell off.

[Travis]

Who knows?

[Jamie McMurray]

I'm going to defend them because I think it's so hard to Monday morning quarterback.

[Dale Jr.]

But it is.

[Jamie McMurray]

Without a doubt they're going to write in their notes for the next 40 years two times.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes, I do, I do. I do think you got to give the them credit for not having track position early and doing things to give themselves the shot, you know, because it's hard to do that too. I mean, those guys kept sacrificing their track position to take more fuel to be in a spot to do that.

[Jamie McMurray]

What's hard. What's hard for me as I'm watching that race on Sunday is it. It seemed like Ford and Toyota were like, we're going to run as long as we can for the most. Most of those teams all ran as long as they could. And Chevy all. All split it up.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but.

[Jamie McMurray]

And it, it looks really good temporarily. But man, if you can see an hour down the road, definitely running as long as you could was. Was the better play.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Maybe.

[Jamie McMurray]

And maybe that's because of the caution with Larson. Maybe that, that could have changed a lot of that for those teams. But, boy, it just, it just.

[Dale Jr.]

We were basing ours a lot off of when we thought the guys around us would pit. And if we could pit, where would we cycle? Would we cycle to clean air or will we cycle into traffic? And if you could cycle to clean

[Jamie McMurray]

air, it's worth a lot, huh?

[Dale Jr.]

It was worth a lot. And if the guy in front of you is going to short pit and you got half a trader in front of him. Okay, go ahead. I'm going to run long.

[Jamie McMurray]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

Like, so you really. You were basing a lot of it off the lap time you could run.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, so. But that's. That's part of indie to me, though. That's what makes it indie is you, you're.

[Jamie McMurray]

And that's what like, like when you asked me to start the show was It a good race. It depends on how you want to rule what a good race is. But Indy's indie and it's always been about strategy, practition, least amount of time on pit road. Like so it was just a typical indie race and you had to be perfect to win.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't, I don't really need to go to Indy and have.

[Jamie McMurray]

You're never going to.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, I don't need to go to Indian, have these big slingshot passes every straightaway, like defending these huge runs. I don't need to go to Indian and have that for it to be a good race for me. I, I know going to Indy, like you said, you have to execute everything perfectly. You have to get a little lucky too in there to, to pull it off. But you have to execute everything, man. And it's not, it's not. I don't mind that. I don't mind everything having to be the pit crew, having to be perfect, the strategy, having to be perfect. You know, the driver happened to be accurate every single lap to hold his position. Like, I don't mind a winner coming from, you know, that happening to him and doing that. Like, I don't, I don't need these slingshot and these big runs and stuff. Would I like to see more passing. Yeah, faster cars to get to people.

[Jamie McMurray]

We want to see more passing. Yeah, definitely want that. You want the more second place car, if he's faster than the first place car to have at least chance to get by him. We definitely want to see that.

[Dale Jr.]

I would like to see just not be stuck if you get to a guy, have a little bit of, have some tools in the toolbox to be able to get around him. And the drivers are very limited. What they have to do that right now. But Indy to me, and this has been a big topic as well, is, is it a crown jewel still? And to me it is still a crown jewel. When you go to Indy and you look at that place and, and it's the Brickyard, man, you don't, you don't drive up on, you know, when you drive up on the racetrack still, you're always like, man, there's a racetrack, it's always that, man, that's pretty cool no matter what track you drive up to. But you get to the Brickyard, we, we watch all the RA. We watch the Indy 500 in May and we kind of get pumped up for that. And then we get to get our chance to go there and have a race. And that place is prestigious, man. Like, you go there and, and it's still. When I look at the schedule, I still notice where Indy is, and I still notice, you know, you watch the victory lane celebrations on the front stretch and, and you see these things, and it's still, it's really, really special to win there still.

[Jamie McMurray]

So what to me, what makes India crown jewel, and it would make any race a crown jewel, is that it's one of the few races that teams have always tried to bring their best car to. It's also one of the four events that if you. And I don't want to take fans out of this, but ultimately, what makes it so special is that everyone that has a hard card in the garage and if you took a poll of the four races you want to win this year or one of the races you want to win in your career, it'll be Daytona, it's the Coke 600, it's the Southern 500, and it's Indy.

[Dale Jr.]

It's Indy.

[Jamie McMurray]

And as long as the garage area feels that way, it's going to be a crown jewel because they put so much emphasis in wanting to win that event. I don't think there's any argument that, like, that track is. Is about the Indy 500, but for as long as I can remember, every driver, team owner, crew chief, crew member has wanted to win at Indy, and that's not the same. And not to take away from any of these other tracks, but, like, nobody lines up at the beginning of the year and it's like, really want to win Pocono this year. Nobody says that. Like, it's. It's a great race and it is still a win.

[Dale Jr.]

Still awesome to win, but still.

[Jamie McMurray]

But it is not Indy, and Indy is in the same category as those other tracks that we mentioned. And listen, I have had the opportunity of being able to win the Daytona 500 and the July or the summer race at Daytona. They're not even close. Like, it's. It's. No, no one. No one even talks about. Do you remember when you won the Daytona July race? No, no one talks about that. Everyone talks about the, the Daytona 500. I also have won the Charlotte fall race twice, but I've not won the Coke 600. People don't talk about.

[Dale Jr.]

You're not going to forget the first one.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, well, that's fair. But I'm just saying, like, the other thing to me that makes Indy unique is that we have only ever raced there once a year, so there's significantly less winners ever at that racetrack. And that's the way it's always going to be. And it's not just because it's Indy. It's because it's Indy on the oval. Because winning on the road course, it was just another race.

[Dale Jr.]

It was.

[Jamie McMurray]

It wasn't. It was nowhere near the same. And I. I really appreciated Michael McDowell pointing that out this weekend. He's like, listen, it's just not the same thing. So there's no doubt, I think, in the majority of fans minds, And I think 100% of the garage area, that that is a crown jewel race.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I agree. And be. There's. You've got to be on that front stretch after the race with the bricks after a win. It's. It's just different. I mean, you look down them long straightaways, there's so many grandstands, and you think of the history of the place. The pagoda sand right there. The victory lane raised like the ride up to victory. The victory lane, where it's at up there on the. On the. On the stage. And man, it's just. It's just different, man. It's indie, like, it's. And it's never going to change. You know, I think this is my 21st year going there, and it's still the same. Every time you drive. You drive through that tunnel, you're like, man, this place is pretty cool. And I know the racing's not the greatest, but I know going to that race, too, that it's going to be a battle. It's going to be. Everything has to be perfect. And I'm okay with that.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

What do you think? So I reached out to some people on both the IndyCar side and NASCAR side yesterday because I knew we were going to talk about the race and whether it was a good race or it wasn't. And one of the questions I asked was, you know, in my mind, when I watch the Indy 500, I'm like, man, it's always a great race, right? Like, they're always lined up and snaking down the straightaways. So, you know, I asked that question. I'm like, well, why is it on this big flat track that IndyCar puts on such a good race? And before I could end the sentence, someone's like, well, it's a fuel mileage race. They're like, you know, they qualify at 235 miles an hour, and then they race at 217. And the difference being in IndyCar, they can adjust their fuel on the wheel, right? You can change the fuel map and just. And it doesn't make as much Power, you're still essentially running wide open, but it allows those drivers to get to the number that they need to be. And I'm like, I hadn't thought about it. It's essentially kind of what we've seen at Daytona and Talladega for the last three or four years. So I also ask, well, what do we need to do to make the racing better at Indy? Like, how do we create passing? And something that stuck out to me this weekend that I. That you don't see on TV, but as I watched lap times, is the, the O'Reilly cars we're going to say put on a better race. I think for sure they were five or six seconds a lap slower than the cup cars. But you don't see that on tv. You don't notice it. You can't notice it. So, you know, I asked the question. I'm like, well, why don't we take our Atlanta package and run it at Indy? Like, why. Why don't. You know, why don't we do, like, where. Because to me, you're gonna have to slow the cars down enough that you can. I don't know that you have to run wide open. I think that would be key to be able to run the whole truck. I don't. I don't know if you can slow them down enough. But the one thing that the cup car does have is this massive tire on it that allows you to have a lot more mechanical.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, my gosh, the tire is huge.

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. So. And what I'm encouraged by throughout the sport is that we're going to go to Daytona in a few weeks with something. We don't even know what it's going to do. But they're trying. They're like, we have nothing to lose.

[Dale Jr.]

I appreciate that for sure.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I think at Indy, I think we have nothing to lose. I think you go and you. You try something and if no one can pass for the lead, you've just. You've made a lateral move. You haven't lost anything.

[Dale Jr.]

I am definitely like, the steps they're taking and we've talked about it. I mean, Denny has said, couple years ago, Danny said to take the spoilers off the cars or something similar to that and to make it where, you know, the cars are a handful because, like, back. Used to see cars back into the, like get in there too hot and wreck. Like, now there's, there's, there's none of that. And there's definitely no. When you catch a car anyway, you don't have any tools. To maneuver anything around and make it hard on him. The only thing he's got to do is looking in, looking his mirror. Which now is even easier with the tv. The screens they got in there, they can really see a bigger picture rather than maybe like when you used to look out of the mirror when you're running. You could what see the roofs kind of move a little bit. Right. You couldn't see.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Didn't have these TVs like they have

[Jamie McMurray]

now and yeah, I don't, I'm not a fan of those.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't, I don't either. Cuz it makes it really.

[Jamie McMurray]

I think it puts that spotter's job in jeopardy. TJ And I don't think we need to do that.

[Dale Jr.]

I think we need to take those.

[Travis]

I don't know now I like them.

[Dale Jr.]

I think we take, need to take those out of there. Just use a mirror.

[Jamie McMurray]

So I do too. I'm with you on that. I know the drivers like it. I think there's maybe somewhat of a safety aspect to it. But it could also be argued that they're more aggressive because of what all they can see.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh they're 100% look at the blocks into one.

[Travis]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

You know what I mean? Like, and you know when you're going down to 77 here, you don't trust that camera. When you're changing lanes, you know you're so like. Yeah. I think it gives the drivers an extra level of comfort. Anytime the drivers are more comfortable they're gonna. It makes it. I don't want to say it makes the racing worse, but when the drivers have their hands full and the cars are hard to drive, we see some of the best racing. I think I'm gonna argue with you.

[Jamie McMurray]

I, I think we have to be very careful and, and the dry, like Denny is gonna freak out on me when I say all this. I think we have to be very careful at listening. I think it has to be 50, 50 driver and, and, and NASCAR driver and engineer driven on how you get to the rules. Because at the higher speed tracks it seems like I know all the drivers can say I want less downforce, like I want less downforce to make better racing. But I'm going to go back to the old Atlanta when we didn't have any downforce and the track was slick and we fell off four seconds. It was hard to pass. Like it was a, it was a parade around there. And it seems to me that in the last four years when they created the next gen car, we had really good Short track racing and great road racing, but we had horrible mile and a half. They were just, I was like they might go off the schedule. They weren't very good.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, there wasn't short Martinsville was bad

[Jamie McMurray]

even prior to the next gen. No, no, no. I'm saying is like when they developed the next gen car, the road races prior to that were, that's why we added seven of them to the schedules because they were getting good. Yeah. And the short tracks were pretty well

[Dale Jr.]

that and Chase is winning all of them, so.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, that helps. But, but my point is when they went to the next gen car, the mile and a half got really good and the, and the drivers will still complain a little bit about, you know, being, being needing clean air. But. But man, you, you think like Charlotte is a really good example. That race was horrible. And then the next gen came out and all of a sudden it turned into one one of the best tracks that we have. Like this the racing that you see there.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I would say Kansas or Chicago most Vegas, most of those mile and a half's now I think put. You can't ask for more.

[Dale Jr.]

No. I do think the mile and a

[Jamie McMurray]

half, it's really good. However, the short tracks, they're not good. They're not good. The road races, they're not good unless you're svg. So to me, when we talk about making things better at Indy, I don't think it's about taking downforce off. To me it's about making it to where maybe you slow the pace down and the draft's more important. It's more of a drafting style race. I think that would help. I do think though at Martinsville, anything one mile and under, taking it away, not allowing shifting, figuring out how to shifting.

[Dale Jr.]

Shifting.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Having having you know, a lot of lap time fall off like because at Martinsville you're, you're defenseless when you lose drive, you get past like you just can't. Oh yeah, you can't get out of the way. So I think there's, there's a. And they, they're doing this more and more now. The fact that we can have a different set of rules for each track or for each type of track to me is what's going to ultimately make it the best.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I think the mountain half package is great. I do, I think the mile and a half, it's a lot of momentum and a lot of raw speed. But I like what I think is a good compliment to some of this is the fall off too. I Like I like diet. I like tires to be hurt in the beginning if you drive too hard and pay for it 25 laps in, you know what I mean? I like their, I like the mile and a half but I like tracks that you can hurt the tires and it puts the driver more into play. I do think, I don't know what the answer it is at Indy, but

[Jamie McMurray]

no one does either. And so I think you have to just try something.

[Dale Jr.]

We don't go there enough to. We don't have a lot of massive flat, long straightaways. Really, really different.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, my, the, my favorite part of mile and a half races right now and, and I would say the 20 car bell. Adam Stevens do the best job of this is if you know if the stage or if the end of the race is 80 laps long. There are some guys that pit, you know, halfway or, and then they'll run this long and it looks like it's not going to work. And then in the closing five laps of the race here or Denny is another one that will do it. I think that's so much fun to watch. I love the fact that you, you don't really know who's going to win until it's over.

[Dale Jr.]

I do. Yeah. These races are still, they're still tough to win. I mean they're super hard to win. So what do you think about cautions, Travis? You got a lot of complaints there.

[Travis]

If we have a caution like five or 10 laps before the end of the stage, just call the stage there, let's get the pinning going, let's restart. Then it makes it more interesting because now crew chiefs are having to change up their game plan because now the strategy changes on them. Like we, we went the Kyle Larson caution to come back green for one lap and then go yellow again. That you want to make fans fall asleep. There you go.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it's, it gets tough. I do think there was some opportunities at some points here to have some quickie yellows. You know when you had back to back cautions like that. But sometimes they fall at the wrong times and it definitely makes, depending on the severity of the incident too. Makes it hard on race control to get back cleaned up in time. I thought they did a good job of getting back one lap there. But you're for a lap though, you know what I mean?

[Jamie McMurray]

Like they have to fix this. This is a, it's a problem. This is a no brainer. They have to fix this. As I'm, I'm reading what you wrote here. So Larson crashed at 258 it says.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep.

[Jamie McMurray]

We had a 14 minute cleanup. Is that right? And then we ran one lap green.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Then we didn't go back to green and stage two until three. 26. So 28 minutes from Larson's crash to a one lap restart.

[Dale Jr.]

That's a long time.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's a long time.

[Dale Jr.]

That's a problem.

[Jamie McMurray]

They have to address this and to me they're going to have to sit down with the teams because you still have to make it fair to the teams because there's a lot of effort put into strategy and, and, but, but if the teams know going into it that it could change, I, this has to be just for the better of, of the fan watching because I, I lose interest in 28 minutes of.

[Dale Jr.]

Dude, what do you think? What do you think the answer could be though? You know, like if you get a caution within 10 of the end of the stage, that's it.

[Jamie McMurray]

I think it depends on the track. Like at Indy, 10 laps a long time.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean Daytona, a lot of them. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

10 laps is. I think you, you could, I mean, I don't, I think you have to come to a common ground with the teams in nascar and I, some of this will get blamed on tv. I, I don't, I don't.

[Dale Jr.]

ARCA does this. You know that, right?

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't.

[Dale Jr.]

They have a halfway break and in their meetings they say, hey, if it's a hundred lap race, they're going to say there's going to be a caution. If there's a caution on or around lap 50, that's going to be it. But if there's no caution, they'll throw the caution at lap 50. But if they get a caution at 44, they might say, hey guys, this is the halfway break here.

[Jamie McMurray]

That makes sense. I just think we have to find a common ground between TV network, NASCAR and the team. So what's fair and what's best for the product on TV? Because no one wants 28 minutes

[Dale Jr.]

of

[Jamie McMurray]

what's happening here because you just lose interest on what you're watching one lap,

[Dale Jr.]

one lap for, and then 28 minutes.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, here's the other problem.

[Dale Jr.]

Ratio's not good.

[Jamie McMurray]

And, and one lap shootouts sometimes are expensive.

[Dale Jr.]

Like they are very.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I, I can't imagine the teams.

[Dale Jr.]

That's what I was worried about. When you get one lap shootouts, you got guys that are going to be even more aggressive and well, and sometimes

[Jamie McMurray]

and, and, and not necessarily in the cup series, but for sure in trucks and O'Reilly you get guys that should not be up front. Like they stay out, right. And then you do get a wreck or a stack up. And I just don't think that's better. I think there's a better process of how to do these breaks that we could eliminate some time and I don't have the answer.

[Travis]

I don't think it's a TV thing though, because TV can't be happy with 28 minutes of nothing because they're worried about a fan might flip over to another sporting event and not come back.

[Jamie McMurray]

I guess what I mean by that, Travis, is there's no doubt that TV is going to have an allotment of time built in for a commercial break at that stage break. And I know that I do tv, I don't know all the details of exactly how that works. So don't assume that I'm not telling you something or that I know because I'm not 100% sure. But they definitely have a time built in for that. But they still have to do that. If we go back green for one lap, they're still going to have to work that in. So I think that's what I mean by. Like you said, TJ at Indy, if the costume comes out with four laps to go, and we know that at best case scenario we're only getting a one lap shootout. But I think what's really important is that we know that rule going in, not plan for it. It's pretty close. I don't know, maybe this week we should try it. I don't think that's the process. I think the process is we set a standard of at this track, if it comes out within four to go, then we're, we're gonna. Yeah, four comes out. But if, then, if it comes out with five, we're not changing the rules because we, you know, then we might have a long caution. I just think we set a standard of what it needs to be.

[Dale Jr.]

To me, it needs to go back further because at four to go, five to go or four to go, you're probably not going back green.

[Jamie McMurray]

Probably not. Yeah, you're right. I guess. So let's say it different than at Indy. If it comes out, if we say seven to go.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

And it comes out with eight, then we can't change the rules for. Yeah, for that.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, I would just make it 10. It's an even number. Where, hey, if the Costa comes out, we're going to lap 60. If it comes out on lap 50 or after, that's the end of the stage. We're going to run our cycle and we're going back green and then it makes your strategy as you want.

[Travis]

That's the best part, is now these crew chiefs are having to change the strategy and things are getting interesting because now you might have a car that's up front. Well, they messed up the number and they're a lap short on fuel or whatever. And so, like, yeah, it adds to the intrigue.

[Dale Jr.]

As a fan, I would be fine with that. I think it would be fine. I mean, it's going to be a little bit of a challenge for some because it's going to change some fuel numbers and things. But, like, most time, the second stage is already shorter.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, yeah, because you run four or five laps under caution.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes. So if the caution comes out at.

[Jamie McMurray]

Especially on Saturdays, that second stage gets really short.

[Dale Jr.]

Truck race is like a truck race at Pocono stages. No, I hate it. But just pay the points and keep racing. I'm fine. Like, if you're fast, you win.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, they're really short.

[Dale Jr.]

All right, it's time for the Lionel ultimate racing collector. This month's selection of our ultimate racing collector, presented by Lionel Racing, the official diecast of nascar. Lionel Racing is your go to source for all of your racing diecast needs. Check out the latest pre orders@lionel racing.com. and this month's winner is Blake. He sent us a awesome video here. A lot of die casts.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's a lot of die cast.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. He's.

My lord.

[Jamie McMurray]

I think I see one of mine.

[Dale Jr.]

I know.

[Jamie McMurray]

Made me feel good.

[Travis]

Wow.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Those are all signed.

[Dale Jr.]

Look at that.

[Jamie McMurray]

Trying to get those signed.

[Dale Jr.]

Davey Allison. Oh, a Larson sprint car in there.

[Jamie McMurray]

DC Solar.

[Dale Jr.]

That's vintage. There it is. Always got a helmet. Look at this case.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, dude, look at all the Texaco have.

[Dale Jr.]

There's.

[Jamie McMurray]

I had a bunch of that when I was a kid. Davey Allison, Texas Haviland.

[Dale Jr.]

Some of them are probably definitely yours.

[Jamie McMurray]

Probably some of them. Yeah. I feel like he's collecting more of the brand that. Oh, there are mine down there.

[Dale Jr.]

Wow.

[Jamie McMurray]

There's a bunch of mine.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, that's.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I'd tell you what, this guy.

[Dale Jr.]

Is this your.

[Travis]

Is this a family member?

[Jamie McMurray]

This is actually my basement. Yeah. Oh, my God.

[Unidentified Short Interjection]

Look.

[Jamie McMurray]

Look at all those.

[Dale Jr.]

Some of Juan's cars there, right?

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

And I'll admit I didn't. I mean, I didn't pick this because I. Because I didn't know your car or anything, so I didn't pick this because of.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, that's great.

[Dale Jr.]

Holy cow.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, my God. He likes Larson too.

[Dale Jr.]

He's got even more whole. Look at all these cars.

[Jamie McMurray]

Holy.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, I wonder how many are actually in this room. 200 easily.

[Travis]

He's not done.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, he's got IndyCar hats down there.

[Jamie McMurray]

Is he talking like I. I can't hear.

[Travis]

I don't know.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't have to.

[Travis]

Usually they don't talk.

[Jamie McMurray]

Good for him.

[Dale Jr.]

That's awesome, man, what a collection.

[Jamie McMurray]

I wish I was that passionate about something.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, that's dedicated.

[Jamie McMurray]

It is.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, he went from the early days, a lot of Texaco stuff there. Yeah, from the early days all the way to the Juan stuff. The COT car. I saw a COT car.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, that was cool.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it was pretty neat. Yeah, that's.

[Jamie McMurray]

Wonder who his favorite was because I. It's like it's changed, right? Like it looks like it ended at Larson.

[Travis]

Blake, we're going to post this, respond. We want to know who your favorite is.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, what was. I honestly think he's obviously a Larson fan. Seems like more recently, because I saw a Sprint car, Indy car.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

But leading into that, it looks like he was a Ganassi fan.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's what I thought because I saw 42, I saw my car.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, if you go from DC Solar to Texaco Haviland to the, to the Big Red. Yeah, the gum car. I mean, I feel like you're a Ganassi fan, but that's a cool collection.

[Jamie McMurray]

That is.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it's really awesome.

Yeah.

Thanks for the video.

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[Travis]

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[Dale Jr.]

win for Carson on Saturday. I was very lucky and fortunate to be a part of it and, and you know, go through all the victory lane stuff. It's very special. But Carson's been so close so many times. I mean, two weeks ago at Atlanta he has the car, the push behind him runs out of fuel Phoenix earlier this year, he doesn't cut the dog leg enough and they get inside and he kind of gets used up and was gonna probably win that race. Carson's been in position to win this first Atlanta race. Corey Day gets inside of him and gets into him and takes from the lead. You know, I feel like Carson's been so close so many times. It was really great to see him finally break, break through and, and get the win. What do you think?

[Jamie McMurray]

I think what makes this so special is that I'm going to go all the way back to, I believe it was his second start at Dover. He comes on the scene after winning all these cars, Tour races, comes on the scene, looks like he's going to win in a second start. And I'll, I'll never forget Regan Smith going and interviewing Travis in the middle of turns one and two. And I. I grew up with Travis, like in late models back in. In Wisconsin, we. We raced together, and then we kind of moved through all this series together. And I was like, what a moment this guy's getting ready to have with his kid. Gonna win a, you know, Xfinity race. At the time at Dover and the. The Reese. I don't remember exactly. The restart didn't work out. He ends up.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Just didn't chose the inside.

[Dale Jr.]

No, we chose the outside.

[Jamie McMurray]

And were you spotting for him?

[Dale Jr.]

I was.

[Jamie McMurray]

Did you make that lane selection?

[Dale Jr.]

No, we were in the right lane. We just didn't drive into one hard enough.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. I'm kidding. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

You know what it is, Dover, though.

[Jamie McMurray]

No, I know I'm tough, but to me, I go. I go all the way back to that and how close he came. And then all of last year, I feel like Conor Zillich just overshadowed.

[Dale Jr.]

I agree.

[Jamie McMurray]

And. And I have a. Somewhat of the inside right, because I. I know all these guys, and I also know what it's like to be in that position. And for Conor, every. It could not go wrong last year, like, even when things went wrong.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

It just. In everything that he was doing, and

[Dale Jr.]

I'm paying for it this year.

[Jamie McMurray]

He is. Oh, the law averages will catch up

[Travis]

with all of you.

[Jamie McMurray]

But I. I just think about how hard last year was for Carson to watch his teammate have all that success. And whether he would admit it to us or not, there had to be some jealousy and bitterness of, like, why is it. Why does it keep going his way? So that's what makes to me this so special, is to watch the struggles you mentioned, all the stuff, even just this year, but also knowing. And I think Dale's emotion when they interviewed him, he was having a. And at first he had his glasses on, and I'm like, what is he choking? Like, what's happened? Right. And then when he took his glasses off and you're like, oh, he can't get it together. And we all. Man, when you start crying, the more you try to get it together, the.

[Dale Jr.]

The worst.

[Jamie McMurray]

But then when he just talked about, you know, he wants it so bad because he wants to see people. Drivers that put the effort in, be successful. And he's watched Carson throughout his career put all this effort in, and he wants to see. Wants to see him be successful and to finally get there and knowing that you have to win in order to continue on in this. I mean it. And it couldn't have happened at a. A better stage. Yeah. I mean it.

[Dale Jr.]

That's yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. And then the moment that we all saw kind of happen live through social media with Travis's dad being. I think they were at Langley.

[Dale Jr.]

Langley with Kaden.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. And get watching on his iPhone. I mean, like, and then the fact that Kaden won that night also.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, it was a great night.

[Jamie McMurray]

What a great day for them. Yeah. Super cool. Super cool moment. It was really fun to. To cover live. You know, watching it on the CW with. With those guys and. And just, you know, when. When someone wins a race like that and you see the burnout and. And you're watching the team, you feel obligated to talk and be. And try to explain what they're thinking, but the reality is they just want you to not talk. And like. Like, just because everyone watching at home already knows the vibe and the emotions that are going on, and it's really fun to get to watch that and be a part of it.

[Travis]

It was a win that I felt like the racing world wanted to happen. Like, he was the driver. So it's like it wasn't just Junior Motorsports fans rooting. It was everybody. It was like, let him get this win he deserves.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I mean, he's. He was in the Champ four last year. Like, people forget that. Like, he didn't win, but, like, consistency and he's second in points this year. Like, he's just Steady Eddie out there. He just hadn't been able to get that win.

[Jamie McMurray]

And what I hope for Carson. And again, like we. I talked about with Zillich, kind of overshadowing him last year. Like, Justin's doing that kind of this year.

[Dale Jr.]

Right.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, with.

[Dale Jr.]

Within this group.

[Jamie McMurray]

I mean, he's winning all these races and that's hard to come back to the shop. And they unload the trucks and you come in for the debrief and you're like, yeah, Justin won again. Right. But I hope that him being able to win gives him the confidence and

[Dale Jr.]

he's clawing away at it.

[Jamie McMurray]

Totally. It's not a freak thing that happened. He's been so close so many times.

[Dale Jr.]

And working with Carson every week, I mean, there's. I've been there for basically every. Every start he's made, and to see him. And you never know how young drivers are going to be. Are they going to be lazy, not wanting to put the work in during the week? Are they going to want to put the work in? And every week, you know, we set a really good standard in the beginning. And, you know, sometimes you let him go like, hey, I'm not going to text him on Monday. I'm going to see what he does this week, see if he wants to work on stuff. Carson, I mean, it's not Monday evening, Monday, Tuesday. And then usually we have a little pre race deal for ourselves on the night before we go to the track. Just I put everything I have on a, a hard drive for him so we can watch on the airplane again. And we like nights and weekends where you have a practice the night before and then you race the next day. It makes it so much. We can go back and look at the data and stuff and go over lines and what people are doing and then I feel like we're really ready for Saturday. But Carson, he can't get enough of that. Like, he can't. Like it was, I got back from the truck race on Friday and we're getting ready to look over a film at 11:30 at night. Like and then he had a meeting the next morning and he got out of that meeting and at 9 o' clock we're sitting there watching it again. So it's fun to see a guy like Carson come from where he did not know a thing about O'Reilly Racing, to just be thrown into there and have to learn it, to see him grow and, and adapt and learn and race with these guys. And you know, I've seen it from the very beginning and, and he does get overshadowed a lot, but he puts a lot of work into this and everything that will pay off. It's gonna 100. And I tell him, you know, I try as I've been doing this a long time. So you try to guide him too. Like, hey, you know, this is what, you know, this is how it should be. You just try to, you try to keep them, you try to guide him a little bit as well. But he is going, he's going to be a Sunday guy at some point. And I think he did get overshadowed a lot. And I think you're getting ready to see a lot more of Carson.

[Jamie McMurray]

I love hearing that about him because I, I just have zero tolerance for laziness. I said my whole career I'd come home on Sunday and pout and I would wake, I would wake up at 4:30 or 5 in the morning, my wife would be like, where are you going? I'm like, I don't know. But I'm gonna get up and try to figure this out, you know, because I just, I wanted to be more successful than I was in racing, but it was never from a lack of effort. And so when I see kids that put effort in like that. I'm just naturally a fan.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Carson, he puts in more effort than probably any young driver that I've worked with.

[Jamie McMurray]

Awesome.

[Dale Jr.]

Recently. You know, he's, he definitely. There's no slack in that department with him and you can see it paying off.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

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[Dale Jr.]

All right, it is time for Ask Junior. But not really Ask Junior, Ask Jamie. Ask Jamie. Yeah. This segment of Ask Jamie is going to be brought to you by Xfinity. Xfinity is waving the red flag on Internet price hikes and raising the green flag for savings. Now you get the speed and reliable WI fi you need locked in at one price for five years. No surprises, no late yellows, just a straight shot to victory lane. And just like that, folks, we've got a winner. Xfinity. Imagine that.

[Travis]

All right, so first question people want to know. It's been a topic brought up lately. What's your guys's takes on qualifying in the metric and do we need to make a change to it?

[Jamie McMurray]

I vote for a change.

[Dale Jr.]

I vote for it. All right, it's done. We'll start next week.

[Jamie McMurray]

I. I wanted.

[Travis]

You can do it next week.

[Jamie McMurray]

I wanted to go to the ping pong drop.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm fine with that. Me too. I'm 100% fine.

[Jamie McMurray]

I. I'm telling you, when you used to go over like it was, it was, it was fun like it was over there. And you're like, you could send a

[Dale Jr.]

truck driver, you could send somebody else like Z Lucky.

[Jamie McMurray]

This year, I don't think the metrics, I think the metric is fair. If it rains, I Think that's completely fair that it doesn't have to just be based on owner points the way it was. I think that's fine. But I would like to see a shake up in the qualifying.

[Dale Jr.]

I just, I don't like the metric of it rains because what do you

[Jamie McMurray]

want it to be set on if it rains?

[Dale Jr.]

So if you go, you go to Watkins Glen, you get crashed out in turn one, SVG wins the race, you go to next week and you know, say you're 10th in points. I think it should be more points based. That should be a heavier factor in there.

[Jamie McMurray]

It is already though, right? I don't, I think the points are a bigger factor than.

[Dale Jr.]

I think it should be a much bigger factor. But I don't think it's enough.

[Jamie McMurray]

Maybe not to me because I shouldn't have said that because I don't.

[Dale Jr.]

We did rain out somewhere, remember it was, was it after the Glenn that it rained out SVG started. Yes. Like was it Charlotte? Something like that might have been.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't remember.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't, I don't remember either.

[Jamie McMurray]

But I think you're right it was

[Dale Jr.]

Charlotte because I just don't. It's so hard to come back from that. And like if you're 70% is off

[Travis]

of the last race.

[Jamie McMurray]

70% off.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

So I think that's too much.

[Jamie McMurray]

Let me back up. I'm fine with the ping pong draw but I'm also fine with reversing practice order. Like I, I don't, you know what I mean? Like whatever. I think that then people mean well. Like if you're fastest in practice you go last like in the, in the 20 minute or whatever they're giving, given each weekend. Because that's going to change soon.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. I mean I like you're still going to have a lot of the same guys, same group. Like to me, to me the random.

[Jamie McMurray]

But if, if, if who can we use? Who's a good one? If William Byron crashes out this week, I don't think it's, I mean I don't think it's fair that he gets hosed the following week in qualifying.

[Dale Jr.]

Like, I don't, that's what I'm saying. Like I don't think your finish this week should matter that heavily.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

On your qualifying draw for next week. If it rained like something like that. Like I don't. To me it should be the other way around. It should be, you know, 70 or 80% points and then you're a finish last week because you've the, you got to the points.

[Jamie McMurray]

We have butchered this because I didn't know the rules well.

[Dale Jr.]

How have you got. If you're fifth or sixth in the point anywhere in the points, how have you got there this year? Consistency, you know, and you shouldn't be penalized.

[Jamie McMurray]

Wonder how they ended up on 70% from last week's finish.

[Dale Jr.]

Try hard, man. You want to get everything you can do to finish winning your in.

[Travis]

I guess the one thing.

[Jamie McMurray]

Why don't you roll your eyes at the ping pong draw?

[Dale Jr.]

Because that was before he was born. So he doesn't understand.

[Travis]

No, no, because is this a professional thing or we. Is this fifth grade basketball you're talking about? Fair? Yeah, like, that's where you guys are. Losing me is like, you know what? You know what I was told as a kid? Life's not fair.

[Jamie McMurray]

Life is not.

[Travis]

So go out there and perform. And if you're like, I'm okay if you want to change the metric, I'm okay if you just go off the standings. That's the order.

[Jamie McMurray]

But like, the only reason I, part of the reason I like the ping pong draw is because I think it will shake things up and I think it will. And so I'm viewing this more from an entertainment perspective than I am a competitors. And so I would like to see a good car start mid pack or towards the rear because they got a bad draw. Because to me that provides entertainment of watching them work their way to the front versus if they are consistently the fastest car and they get the best draw and then they start on the front row. I'm like passing, I don't know. Like, I just. So I, I, I see your point. I don't, I don't. And I think that's fair if we're being fair.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

But I think from an entertainment perspective, it could be better.

[Dale Jr.]

I just think with the random, there's nobody to blame. There's no if you, if you get the good draw that week, you get the good draw. And I mean, it's how it was. I mean, you knew like sometimes a good car had to go early. It's like, oh man, he's gonna be. He had to go down and lay down and try to lay down a lap. And you had cars that weren't as strong have good draws, and then they started better and it made their weekend. They had a little bit better. Pit stall like this, it just makes it where you like right now. Once you get buried and have two bad weeks in a row, it is ridiculously hard to come back from it. A lot of it's because of qualifying, because you don't. The two groups you get to go and you're not in the good, fast group. Your track's going to change.

[Jamie McMurray]

It is. It is fascinating to me. And I don't. I'm assuming it was always this way and we did not know. It's fascinating to me that once the rubber gets picked up, how much speed is unbelievable. The difference. You can take an average car and qualify well or a great car and struggle if you're in the rubber. Like, I love watching the, the, the, the. The. The screen show the before and after and how much rubber gets picked up and. And the difference.

[Dale Jr.]

Dude, it's the shades. It's.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I just wonder like, I feel like forever we thought it was because it cooled down. And I don't know if it was that as much as it was just the rubber getting picked up.

[Dale Jr.]

A lot of the rubber. Yeah. The guys that go out early pick it up and speed it up, like. But it'd be nice to be like, hey man, we got that late draw this week. We're gonna.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

And then you, like I said, everything kind of. You get a better pick stall a pick for pits, you get. Everything just goes easier at that point.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I see your point, but I'd like to see it. I think you could. I think it should be changed.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. If you're fast, you're still like, the fast cars are still going to qualify.

[Jamie McMurray]

Decent.

[Dale Jr.]

Decent. So. But it just makes everything. It just takes everything from being.

[Jamie McMurray]

Here's the other thing. I don't think that it should be a talking point every weekend. And right now it is. I don't think we should be worried about talking about the metric every single weekend. When. When they interview someone in qualifying, if they go out early, like, well, we, we know we're in trouble because of the metric. I don't think that should be a talking point every single weekend.

[Dale Jr.]

I think it should be, oh, we got that good draw this week. We're gonna go out early and try to lay down a lap and see where we end up. And, you know, I just. I honestly feel like it would create more storylines for better.

[Jamie McMurray]

It definitely would for the better.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, I think it would. What do you think?

[Travis]

I think if you want to slightly tweak the metric, but I don't want to go to a pillow ball, ping pong ball, whatever you want to call. Like, I just, I want performance to dictate. Like, this is professional sports. We're not like, we're gonna give ribbons out for everybody and, like, orange slices and Capri Suns afterwards. And sure, we can go to random draws.

[Dale Jr.]

It's a whole new event. Like, it's the playing fields, Travis.

[Jamie McMurray]

Opinions are. Like, everybody has one.

[Dale Jr.]

Like, I don't know. I just. We didn't have a problem with it for however many years.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I'm trying to figure out why they even changed it. That's like.

[Dale Jr.]

Me too.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's what? Like, because there's a reason that we changed it. People didn't like it. But I don't. I don't. It was Covid, wasn't it?

[Dale Jr.]

It was created the metric, because we didn't qualify. We showed up.

[Jamie McMurray]

We never practiced. That's what it was.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Well, hell, if it had to do with COVID Travis, it's over. We're not using it anymore.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, we need to go back to where it was pre Covid. Let's go back to how it was and prove me it's broke at that point. Because it was not broke before that point.

[Jamie McMurray]

No one bitched about it before.

[Dale Jr.]

We didn't really. Like, if you had a bad draws, bad draw, you went out and ran your race. Right. Like, we didn't.

[Jamie McMurray]

During COVID Didn't they do the ping pong draw?

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, they did it like, on a video or you had to watch it. Yeah, yeah. Like, it wasn't broke before. So why can't we just go back to it?

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I like that.

[Travis]

I'm.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Speaking of asses, this was a big question. How embarrassing was it when they showed your ass on tv?

[Jamie McMurray]

I've told this story a couple times, but, you guys, what happened? Are you serious?

[Dale Jr.]

I didn't know.

[Jamie McMurray]

You really don't know?

[Dale Jr.]

No, I don't know.

[Jamie McMurray]

So I. I ran a modified. You really don't know? No, I ran a modified race with Carter.

[Dale Jr.]

I do know that.

[Jamie McMurray]

At Franklin County.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I saw.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I was involved in an accident on lap 14, so. So I was out. The car was. Was damaged. And the trailer that we were pitted out of, it's probably 50 foot long. Okay. And my gear bag was over the tires of the trailer, so kind of towards the. The middle to the back. And I've never worn underwear under my fireproof underwear because I think. Yeah, that doesn't make sense. Like, why would you wear underwear? Underwear under underwear.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

So, you know, like, in the cup world, I change in my motorhome. Or you had the lounge.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, the lounge. You go change.

[Jamie McMurray]

Give me a second. Right? Yeah. Well, you know, it's Short Track. There's just.

[Dale Jr.]

You just go change you miss.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, So I. I knew I was done, so I. I got my clothes out, I walked to the very front of the trailer. I faced the front of the trailer and I did it as fast as I could. Like, I kind of looked around, no one was there. And I ripped them off and I.

[Travis]

What?

[Dale Jr.]

I didn't know the doors were glass in the back.

[Jamie McMurray]

No, no, the doors, it was wide open in the back. I didn't really care about that. I mean, we're in the track, no one's really paying attention. Short Track, but there was a drone that was shooting my car in the pits, and it was shooting right up in the trailer. And so I changed my clothes. And when I got, like, literally I changed my clothes. I got back to my bag because I went to put my gear in it and my phone's like, oh, my gosh. Well, my wife was the first text message and she says, my mom just texted me. She says she thinks she just saw your naked bottom on tv. And I was like, oh, my God. I'm like, well, there's no way. Like, how could they possibly. And then Elliot Sadler texted me. He's like, man, I saw your naked ass on tv. Just, like, laughing. So. Yeah. Yeah. And then fortunately, Turner started our first pre race show at Sonoma with that. That footage.

[Dale Jr.]

That's awesome.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I think I'm gonna wear my underwear next time when I'm racing again next week.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm not gonna lie, if you get a text from Elliot like that, you gotta be a little nervous.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, so funny. Yeah, he made me laugh. He made me laugh.

[Dale Jr.]

That's hilarious. Yeah, I miss his humor.

[Jamie McMurray]

Elliot's so funny, dude. I miss his modified team that Luke Baldwin drives for and that's. I ran a couple of races for them. And it's the same team as what Carter's with. The cards are owned by some.

[Dale Jr.]

For.

[Jamie McMurray]

By some different people. But Elliot and Hermia are at the race and I'm telling you, it. It's. It's just like it was 20 years.

[Dale Jr.]

I'll bet it's a lot of fun.

[Jamie McMurray]

It is so much fun to get to be around those guys laughing. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. It's a good group.

[Travis]

Next question. Somebody wants to know, your hair is amazing. Do you use gel or hairspray to keep it that perfect?

[Jamie McMurray]

I use. It's called a Veda Control paste. If you're a paste. Yeah. Not a gel, it's a paste. I should get Elijah here to come home with me one day and just do a little social content of the like four seconds that I spend fixing my hair in the day.

[Dale Jr.]

That's more than four seconds.

[Jamie McMurray]

No, it's not.

[Travis]

No, that's the funny thing is that people think that they spend so much time and it literally takes three seconds.

[Dale Jr.]

You're just good at it now, though.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't know. It just. Listen, this is, this is what I was blessed with.

[Dale Jr.]

And I hey, it's not bad.

It is.

[Jamie McMurray]

What?

[Dale Jr.]

It could be worse.

[Travis]

Racing and hair.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, could be worse.

[Travis]

That I have next question here is they want to know, do you have any good Sterling Marlin prank stories?

[Dale Jr.]

Oh my God.

[Jamie McMurray]

Appropriate for this show.

[Dale Jr.]

There's not much Starling.

[Jamie McMurray]

The only. I will tell a quick one. I this, I tell this one a lot. So my rookie year, Casey Mears, my teammate and I looked up to Sterling. I can remember obviously I had filled in for him those seven races in 2002. But I, I kind of, I mean I really looked up to him. I'd seen him on TV all those years and great dude. And you know what it's like when you people don't look the same in person as they do on tv. And so like when I got to be around him and, and I don't think starstruck is the right word, but I, you know, I was, I was a fan and so it was kind of cool to get to be around him. And we used to go. Every team would go to Talladega in like December and do those just horrific three days speedway test where you just run two laps at a time, come in, get another car. It was, it was, they were terrible. But we went down there as a team and Ganassi had expanded to three cars this. And so it was Sterling, Casey Mears and I. And at the end of the first day, you know, we get done at five o' clock and it's getting dark at Talladega. Five, you know, in December, at five o' clock the sun's going down, it's starting to get dark. And Andy Graves was a team manager at the time and he came in the garage and he's like, hey, Chip would like. And I didn't know Chip very well either. None of us did. Right. Because Chip was somewhat new to NASCAR at the time and I had not been around him except for like the signing of my contract. He's like, hey, Chip would like to get everybody on the phone and just talk about the day. So what we're going to do is we're all Going to go get in the pit crew van, one of those big 15 passenger vans. Get in the van and we'll just put it on speakerphone. Everybody can talk. Okay? So the crew chiefs, the drivers, the engineers, we all kind of cram into this 15 passenger van. And I did notice that Sterling wasn't in the van. And so anyway, they act like they're calling Chip and they put it on speakerphone. And what had happened was Sterling had put one of those little quarter sticks of dynamite underneath the van that we were in. And I'll tell you something, when it went off, I knew it was a prank, but I also saw fire shoot up the sides of the van and the van kind of rocked. And I was like, what if this goes wrong and the van blows up? And so then there's Sterling laughing. So it's pretty funny. Another one real quick. You can use whatever you want here. But we also used to go to Kentucky and test a lot.

[Dale Jr.]

A lot. Nashville and Kentucky.

[Jamie McMurray]

Engine test, Do a lot of engine tests, just durability tests. And we were there in December, January. It had been snowing, like the track. There was snow on the infield, but the track was dry and it was so cold. You would come in the garage and they would shut the garage door behind. You have space heaters on. Right. And so we were doing an engine test and I think they had changed engines and Sterling was, was driving the car and the engine guy had primed the pump. So, you know, you take the, the dry sump belt pump off, they would prime it and then you put it back on.

[Dale Jr.]

Back on. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, Sterling grabbed an extra belt and threw it under the car. And so they shut the, they shut the door and. And when he got in, he started, he's revving it up and he went to back out and the engine guy looked down and saw the belt and was like running and they're like trying to shut the door and he hit his head on the door trying to get out. And the guy's just melting down because he thinks the belt's off. Yeah. And of course the belt was on. Yeah, I was funny, dude, dude, I

[Dale Jr.]

got to work with him. He was the first full time job that I had his last couple years there. And man, what a. I've actually asked him. And that dynamite you were talking about, we're not talking like it wasn't a firecracker. No, we're not talking firecrackers. Because I asked him like, hey, I asked him one time like, Sterling, can I get, you know, some Dynamite. We want to, you know, blow some stuff up on the land. He. Hold on. Takes his flip phone out. He calls this guy, hey. He goes, johnny Firecracker. That's what he's. Hey, I need some firecrackers. All right? And it was like a week later. I got a brown bag. He said, keep in the fridge. So me and.

We.

Me and topher and Dell Jr. We blew so much up. It's so fun.

[Jamie McMurray]

Sterling, he was just one of a kind.

[Dale Jr.]

He was.

[Jamie McMurray]

He was an awesome guy. He was a really fun teammate to have, and he had plenty of stories.

[Travis]

He.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes, like, I really enjoyed. I got to work when I first started racing. My first year was doing pit practice stuff at MB2 Motorsports, and I got to be around Kenny Schrader, which was. I went from Schrader to had a little bit with Boris, said I got to work with some really good guys, like, personalities, like. And Sterling was. I mean, just a fun dude to be around, like, really good guy. And, yeah, I really enjoyed my years with him.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, he was one. Like, we were talking earlier in the show about how aggressive it is now. I remember Sterling being one of the guys being like, what's the hurry? We got 500 miles to get there.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, at the start of the race.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

In practice, I'd. I'd tell him, you know, Guy, this is when you. You and. And Dell Jr. Would get up and run the fence at places. And I'd be like. I'd be like, hey, they're running the top, finding some speed. I'm looking at, you know, stop time and stuff, and I'm like, they're getting faster and faster up there. And he'd go up there and try it. He'd be like a lane and a half off the wall. He'd be like, oh, can't run up there. It's too loose. And I'm like, you what?

[Jamie McMurray]

But you have eight feet to go. More than that.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but, yeah, he wasn't running that fence. But, no, he was. He was a lot of fun to work with.

[Travis]

So you mentioned Jimmy Jam and now Johnny Firecracker. Sounds like a good alter ego. Do you have an alter ego when you've celebrated any of your wins or have had a good time?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I was curious because, I mean,

[Jamie McMurray]

I think you'd be disappointed.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know, man. I mean, I've been on some trips with you, and I've. You. And you've ran hard.

[Jamie McMurray]

I had. I had my moments. I definitely had my moments in, like, 2002, three, four. But like. Like most of us, What?

[Dale Jr.]

Define a moment. Yeah, like, what's one of them moments? What flashes into your head?

[Jamie McMurray]

I know what you're thinking. I don't think I know what you're thinking. It's a Cabo trip.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, yes. Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

I might have unleashed some clothing on a balcony and twirled it above my

[Dale Jr.]

head to Petey Pablo.

[Travis]

To who?

[Dale Jr.]

The Petey Pablo song. But that's why you was. You know, the spin. You know the helicopter song. Right. You were up there. I got a picture of it somewhere.

[Jamie McMurray]

I say a good story, and Dale will be involved in this, so it'll be fitting in. I don't remember. What year is 2000? 3. 4. I did not know. I didn't know Dale at all. And we were parked next to each other in points, and I was driving Finch's bushcar at the time, and Finch told me. He's like, hey, you know, if you and any of those boys want to come down, I have a condo in. In Panama City. And I'm like, okay. So. So I went. I went over to Dale, like, the next week, and I had never talked to him. And I'm like, hey. I said, you know, Finch has a condo down in Panama City. Said like, maybe for spring break if we want to go down there. Like, I think Elliot and I are going to go, if you want to go. And he kind of looked at me, and he's like, all right. And so I'm like, okay, so we're going to go. So I think Elliot had a plane. It might have been Dale's plane. I don't remember whose. But we decided we were going to leave from Bristol and fly down to Panama City. And we get on the airplane, and we're all kind of talking. And this leads up to what you're talking about. I remember I told him, I was like, man, I don't stay up real late. I'm like, I'll go pretty hard till about 10:30, and then I'm done. And I don't remember. I think it was Dale. He's like, have you ever had Red Bull and vodka? And I'm like, I have not. And he goes, you're going to be just fine. And so we got to our trip, and I got introduced to Red Bull and vodka, and by God, I made it till about 6am I believe that

[Dale Jr.]

next morning, I'm sure he did as well. That was also the tabloid trip.

[Jamie McMurray]

National Enquirer.

[Dale Jr.]

National Enquirer, yeah. That's where you guys ended up. In the.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's the foam pit. Yeah, there was. Yeah, we're not talking about all that. That we had.

[Travis]

Wait, you said foam pit in Panama City?

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Was that Spinnakers?

[Jamie McMurray]

Could be. I don't.

[Travis]

Or Lavila.

[Dale Jr.]

There's no way I would.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't. Honestly, I don't. I don't remember. Like. Yeah, I remember. This is what I remember about that trip. I remember the National Enquirer being there. And Elliot had M&M's as a sponsor. I had Texco, Havin and Dale had Budweiser. Two of the three sponsors were not very excited about what might come out on National Enquirer. And it wasn't Budweiser.

[Dale Jr.]

No.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. So. But I don't remember. I don't remember what came out of that. Like, we didn't end up being, like, nothing. We didn't even. I mean, we didn't think wrong. We were just having fun. You know, we were all just. We're just hanging out. Like, it was just. We're just partying. It was. It was a good time, though.

[Dale Jr.]

Most of the trips we went on, when we would go check into the resort or wherever we were saying the room was stocked with Bud Light and Budweiser, so.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I'm. I mean, I don't remember. We never did anything.

[Dale Jr.]

No, we were. Yeah, our trips were always.

[Jamie McMurray]

It was just fun.

[Dale Jr.]

We talked. We talked a couple weeks ago about the Cabo trip and. And some of the fun that we got to have on there. And. And, I mean, it's just. I look back at it now and there's a lot of good memories that I have and some fun times, so.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, yeah, Really. I mean, I'm just glad I got all that out of the way.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, well, pre.

[Travis]

Like smartphones, too.

[Jamie McMurray]

There was no phone. Well, we had next telephones.

[Travis]

Yeah, but not like iPhones.

[Jamie McMurray]

There was no camera.

[Dale Jr.]

There was no.

[Jamie McMurray]

Or if there was, it took such a grainy photo, you couldn't have distinguished it.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't. We must. Someone must have any photos. Camera. I have a. I somewhere. I have a. I think it's on a computer that I don't even know how to turn on anymore. There's a pitch. I have a picture of you on that stage.

[Travis]

Jamie's going to burn that computer on the balcony.

[Jamie McMurray]

We should leave it on that computer.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean. I mean, we could probably pair it up with your. With your changing at the short track

[Jamie McMurray]

and see if I had the top off in one of. The bottom off in the other. That'd Be great.

[Dale Jr.]

You left.

You. I don't know. Remember. Did you leave before the bar fight that night or after?

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I can tell you that I'm 150 pounds, five eight. I wasn't near any fight. I know that for sure.

[Dale Jr.]

That was.

[Jamie McMurray]

That was one of Dale's friends.

[Dale Jr.]

It was Adam. You remember Adam Martin, Scott's buddy.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, Adam.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, Casey started it.

[Jamie McMurray]

Shocker.

[Dale Jr.]

Casey started it because he was talking.

[Jamie McMurray]

Casey would get pretty tough when he'd drink.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, he told this guy he was talking to this girl, and this guy liked her. And Casey looked at him and. And had. He said, look, if you're gonna hit me, hit me. And that dude just punched him in the face. I was standing right there. And then Adam Martin's buddy, he not. He hits that guy. And then the next thing I saw is a chair hit Adam and knock him down. I'm like, oh, my God. We're all going to jail.

[Jamie McMurray]

I was definitely not there for that.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, we. I thought we were all going to jail.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

J.R. rhodes.

[Jamie McMurray]

I do remember buying the. The. I think I still have it. Those hats with the horns.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Viking hats. Do you remember those?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I do remember those.

[Jamie McMurray]

I remember they were, like, steel hats with horns.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I do remember.

[Jamie McMurray]

We walked around. We walked for days with those on heads.

[Travis]

Thought you were the coolest thing ever.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't thought.

[Dale Jr.]

We thought. Hey, we were cool to ourselves. That's all. I mean, we had a good.

[Travis]

I will say foam parties, I think, are overrated.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, I. I wasn't into that. I was way. I wanted to get above it and just look at everyone else enjoying.

[Travis]

I went to one at Spinnakers and

[Jamie McMurray]

panels and people touching each other. I'm like, I need out of this right here. I'm not into this at all.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

Jamie Jam didn't like that.

[Jamie McMurray]

Jamie Jam was not coming out there. No.

[Travis]

Well, I think that might be a good spot to wrap up this segment before we tell too many more stories.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, that's probably a good idea before I lose my job.

[Dale Jr.]

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[Dale Jr.]

Place your bet.

All right, it's time for the dirty mo do segment, and this dirty mo dough segment's brought to you by fanduel.

[Travis]

No rust today.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, no rust. Kind of nice. No rust. No Dell junior. It's actually been kind of fun enjoying this because Russ.

[Travis]

Russ rags you a lot, too.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't. Yeah, Russ is hard. I miss. I do actually slightly miss.

[Jamie McMurray]

Russell does this show every week.

[Travis]

He comes on for the dose.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, he goes on a lot of vacations, too.

[Travis]

He doesn't go.

[Dale Jr.]

He's lazy.

[Travis]

I am pro. I'm not gonna.

[Jamie McMurray]

I'm kidding. I love.

[Travis]

I'm not gonna stand here for this Russ bashing.

[Jamie McMurray]

I love Russell.

[Dale Jr.]

Russell. I say that just as my predictor is very good at predicting. Russ, let me tell you, it's gonna be fast week. Larson Bell. I mean, Danny's gonna be fast. I mean, really, that's. You're going on a limb here. Russ, I can talk because he's not here.

[Travis]

Don't hate the model.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, the predictor. The predictor is like, that's easy. Like, I want to know, like, the inside stuff. Like, come on, Russ. I can look at a screen and tell you that they're going to be fast.

[Travis]

So. No to prepare for. So I figured we can just talk about the standings and who we think is.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I'll take those four names you just said as being good this week. Okay.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Your predictor. Is that your predictor?

[Jamie McMurray]

That's my predictor.

[Travis]

What do you make of the bubble

[Dale Jr.]

there at the bottom I mean, I think it's worth mentioning what consistency does right here in this. Logano, he was below the bubble. Below it two weeks ago. Two weeks, two good runs.

[Jamie McMurray]

He was 20th two weeks ago. Yeah, 20th. Nice. 13th.

[Travis]

13th. And he's feeling comfortable, too. Like, it's not like it's.

[Jamie McMurray]

I can assure you that nobody is comfortable from. I'd say even Logano, one bad race. Well, you have Daytona and that can just. That can just be a deal breaker for all these guys.

[Travis]

The one thing, though, I think that Logano has to feel comfortable in is most of the guys below him aren't gonna go get a 50 point day. Like they might.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's fair.

[Travis]

But they're not consistently gonna get a big day.

[Jamie McMurray]

And he has momentum.

[Dale Jr.]

Hold on here, because we all would have said this. No, I'm just saying, like, we go in. No, I'm saying we go in. You wouldn't have said this about Joey, like going into Wilkesboro. You wouldn't have had Joey saying he could have that day.

[Jamie McMurray]

No, but the reason I feel better about Joey and I. You're right. I would have never said that. But the fact that he won Wilkesboro and then he came back and he ran third at Indy, he did that. They have momentum.

[Travis]

Right.

[Jamie McMurray]

And so that's going to go aways.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes.

[Jamie McMurray]

And now we're going to Iowa, which I think is going to be a good track for him as well.

[Travis]

And he doesn't need a 50 point day now.

[Dale Jr.]

No, he just needs no disasters he can't have.

[Jamie McMurray]

The thing is, though, like, and he. Joey said this, and I think this is really important, he didn't really care about making the Chase. He wants to win a championship. Like, so for him making it, I mean, he obviously wants to make it, but, like, just because he makes it, they want to get rolling and get. Get to where they can go try to compete for a title.

[Dale Jr.]

And I mean, beyond, like we've said before on here, the champion is going to come out of what, the top six, probably.

[Jamie McMurray]

That's what they say.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Listen, stop, though, for a second because that's what everybody has said up to this point. But Reddick has proved that if things don't go well, it can fall apart really quick.

[Dale Jr.]

It can.

[Travis]

Or if they go well, like Christopher Bell's in 10th.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Travis]

You tell me Bell can't string together.

[Dale Jr.]

I would throw up a little bit.

[Jamie McMurray]

I would still have him as a guy competing for the championship.

[Travis]

As I was watching the end of the race on Sunday, I'm sitting there going all right. Denny's not going to win. Please not Bell. Please not Bell.

[Jamie McMurray]

Because you think Denny can keep his momentum up throughout the rest of the year? Because here's why I ask. It's been going on for like two years now. He's been on this role. Do you think it continues?

[Travis]

Yeah. I mean, you're part of the.

[Jamie McMurray]

Denny.

[Dale Jr.]

I was gonna say, like, you're asking.

[Jamie McMurray]

Never.

[Travis]

But here's the thing, though, is zero DNFs. That's the. I mean, that's the big thing for him. He's get some wins, but just get a fifth, get a six. Like, just don't get a 20th.

[Dale Jr.]

But it's racing, though. And sometimes, man, like you said, the average is out. You can't.

[Jamie McMurray]

But will you blow a left or tire? Like some things are out of your control.

[Travis]

But do you think, though, that maybe he's changed his hour? Like, Larson is still. I feel like racing old.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, I think Kyle's having to drive beyond.

[Dale Jr.]

I do. I think Kyle's half. He's trying to make up for it.

[Jamie McMurray]

He's just hustling. Yeah. Like they're. It's. And it's. I don't understand how they're behind. Like, I. I thought when they got this new nose, I'm like, there's no way they're not just going to dominate this year.

[Dale Jr.]

I thought they would be.

[Jamie McMurray]

It just hasn't happened.

[Travis]

But do you think that's hurting him instead of, like, with the new format, you don't need to be hustling. Just go get yourself a 10th place.

[Dale Jr.]

But he doesn't know.

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't think he know.

[Travis]

Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think this format hurts him.

[Dale Jr.]

Where.

[Travis]

Like a Chase Elliott.

[Dale Jr.]

It does.

[Travis]

Better off.

[Dale Jr.]

It does. But Kyle's also the guy that can win two or three in a row and.

[Travis]

Correct.

[Dale Jr.]

You don't. Like, he's got the ability to do that.

[Jamie McMurray]

He's a guy that can have a 75 point day.

[Travis]

Yes.

[Dale Jr.]

Two weeks in a row.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. And not be surprised at all.

[Dale Jr.]

No. If you told me right now that Kyle Larson won two out of the next three races.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Okay. You're right.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm not walking away.

[Jamie McMurray]

Like, whoa, didn't see that coming.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Like. Like he has that ability. And that's. That's big, man. Like, that's. That's tough. And I look at guys like, man, Chase Elliott could. Sometimes he comes out of nowhere. There was a while that we talked about. All in the news was him and Al and how Long and, like, then he wins a couple races or whatever. And I mean, to answer your question

[Travis]

about Denny, the one thing, though, is, like, can he continue it? Yes. But, like, he has a nice lead, but once the playoff starts, that league gets shrunk.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, yeah. I mean, when it gets down to 25 points, I think that's a lot. If everybody's consistent.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

But one. One bad race.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

You just get that you can get wiped out immediately because those guys you're racing, they're not all going to have. Have bad races.

[Dale Jr.]

Mental, like. Mental wise, the guy, the one that I think he should be worried about, put that can put together races. Ryan Blaney, because I think Ryan's a really smart race car driver.

[Travis]

But what do you think about Penske and Ford on the tracks in the Chase, though?

[Jamie McMurray]

I don't think we. I don't think.

[Dale Jr.]

No, I mean, Blaney, when you say the Chase, you're talking Phoenix.

[Travis]

I'm talking the 10 races.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm just saying it gets better for Blaney as it goes.

[Travis]

But does it not play towards Denny's hand and Toyota?

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, it's always playing towards her hand, but you still have to execute.

[Jamie McMurray]

And I would say. I mean, I asked that, like, rhetorically. You've got Darlington, that Denny continues the success he's having. The thing about Denny that is so impressive, and I think a lot of it comes with his age and how hard he works, is that there's just not a lot of mistakes that are made.

[Dale Jr.]

No, that's what he does. He just doesn't make any mistakes. He knows when the take is fifth place finish. He knows when to do all them things, and he just doesn't push it beyond his means. He doesn't. Yeah, he doesn't overstep.

[Travis]

Yep.

[Dale Jr.]

If he's going to run seventh today, he's going to run seventh.

[Jamie McMurray]

And he has just incredibly fast cars right now.

[Dale Jr.]

That's what I'm saying. Like, yeah, those fast cars. A bad day for Denny. Should be about a seventh.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yep.

[Dale Jr.]

Hoodie, you know, and who do you think?

[Travis]

Does anybody from below the bubble make it in, or do we have our 16 drivers?

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, I think 14th to. I don't know, man. It's.

[Jamie McMurray]

It's tough because Bubba's going to make it in.

[Travis]

I think Bubba's in. The only one is. Does SVG crash at Dayton, like, but he did.

[Jamie McMurray]

He does pretty well at those tracks, but I feel like he could wreck out, though. Yeah, I mean, he's pretty impressive. You can't I'm telling you, like that guy. And I, I, I feel like we have to grade him a little bit on a curve because track house isn't where they need to be.

[Dale Jr.]

He's doing great.

[Jamie McMurray]

He, he's doing really well. He's overly formed and he's probably the best interview on TV ever. The fact that he can get away with saying

[Dale Jr.]

yeah, like, yeah, I don't know.

[Jamie McMurray]

He works it in and you're like, I swear he just said that.

[Travis]

I don't even know if he goes.

[Dale Jr.]

He's had a lot of quotes this year.

[Jamie McMurray]

I got the lead.

[Dale Jr.]

What I do now, leaking out of both ends. That was last year, maybe.

[Jamie McMurray]

He's funny.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I like him, but I, what I like about Shane is he's checking boxes off of. He's getting better. He's progressing like his. He's still getting, he's still learning it and getting better and it's showing and you can see it. Like, I don't think he had the greatest race at Indy, but he had a smart. Where he end up 16th, something like that.

[Jamie McMurray]

I think he was like 27th, actually.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, he was running around 16th.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah. Something happened. 16, though.

[Dale Jr.]

He did. He finished 16th.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Oh, he did.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, that's finished. Where did he start?

[Travis]

25th.

[Dale Jr.]

Okay. Like, that's, to me, that's what I want to see.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, totally.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, that's, people aren't going to notice that, but that's a solid day for.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, let's start below Priest. You think he makes it or can get in or not?

[Dale Jr.]

So I guess stop taking tires.

[Jamie McMurray]

Can Priest outrun Cedric and svg?

[Travis]

Priest is the only one that I think can do it.

[Dale Jr.]

I think Priest. The tracks coming up, we should be very pre. Should be very strong at Iowa and Richmond.

[Jamie McMurray]

The Erik Jones one's interesting because there's some weeks you're like, they're pretty fast, right? And then there's some weeks that it's, it's a disaster. There's not a lot of consistency.

[Dale Jr.]

The ones where I notice him being faster, usually mile and a half. Yeah, they're bigger tracks and we're not, we're getting ready to go to Iowa. Richmond, Loudon, those are going to be. Not that there'll be a struggle, but they're not, there's not an edge.

[Travis]

I think that's where Legacy, they're starting to get better, but there's some areas

[Jamie McMurray]

where they're, they definitely are better at the faster tracks. It seems like they've, they've, they've found That.

[Travis]

I mean if we think priest can then I think you at least have to think that Brad's got a shot.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean honestly, we were supposed to.

[Jamie McMurray]

Brad's weakness right now.

[Travis]

His spotter.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, probably. Well, when I. Me wrecking him most of the time.

[Travis]

Wreck avoidance.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know. I just feel like we just been in. We just been getting caught up. We get caught up in things. We kind of shoot ourselves in the foot. But here late, I mean we've got what we finished seventh and sixth the last two weeks.

[Jamie McMurray]

I feel like they're quiet like I. Yeah. Brad's not on TV getting talked about a lot.

[Dale Jr.]

And last year we were the dominant car at Iowa. We just had so many cautions that the 24 made it on fuel because of all the cautions. We were.

[Jamie McMurray]

So you have to feel really good then going there.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I feel really good about going to Iowa and Richmond and if we can make up, you know, if we go to how many points think we need to make up on Cindric to have a shot in the next two weeks. I mean if we make up 10 a week, does that put you in the ballpark or 15, 30. No. Yeah. Because that puts you. You're within strikingness at that point easily. Right.

[Travis]

You are.

[Jamie McMurray]

I hate points. Talk about it.

[Travis]

You're 40 points back.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Travis]

I mean and you got three races

[Dale Jr.]

left and you gotta. And you're literally racing. The thing is though, Hendrick, I was

[Jamie McMurray]

gonna say like if you can have a mega day, you make up a lot.

[Dale Jr.]

Like if you go. If we go to Iowa and have a Joey day, I mean you've got

[Travis]

to score at least 10 points better the next four race, each race and

[Dale Jr.]

hope that then that's. And that's if they don't have any bad. If they, if they have a bad race, that's,

[Travis]

you know, which. Yeah. I love that we're discussing points and it can happen because last year we weren't talking about. We were talking about who could win to get.

[Jamie McMurray]

I didn't like the win in your end thing either.

[Travis]

And then you're also like if you look 5th through 10th is a dog fight too. Like.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it's got different areas that are happening.

[Travis]

It's going to be so interesting and fun.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, we just need to go. I think if we have a couple solid single digit finishes, we'll be in the hunt.

[Travis]

Like Carson, host of ours in fifth and Bell in 10th is only 29 points back.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean all them guys, they can't afford to have Bad days.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, any of them guys have bad days? They're dropping in the points.

[Travis]

Larson dropped two points, two spots.

[Dale Jr.]

That's crazy, man. Look at. Look at Chase. Dropped one. Host of our drop two or plus two. I'm sorry, who's the sleeper in that group to you? In which group? The top, you know, eight or so.

[Jamie McMurray]

Host of our. Would be the one I'm worried about because I feel like he's incredibly fast, and if he can piece it all together and he's fast at random tracks, like you wouldn't say, like you said with Eric Jones. Mile and a half, but I don't know. Jose Bar, I feel like, just can be fast at a lot of different places.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

I think it gets harder the next couple. I think he's a. He's great at short tracks and he's got natural speed there, but I don't think the cars are quite as good there as they are. Mile and a half. To me, the sleeper. I. I still think Ryan Blaney sitting right there. The fact that Ryan Blaney's third right now.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, I'm sorry, I thought we were talking fifth down. I. I see. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Just in top six. Yeah. Top six or eight.

[Jamie McMurray]

I just, like. I don't know. When I think Sleeper, I think, like. Like, shouldn't be. Like, in my mind, I didn't have them being there at the beginning of the year.

[Travis]

Mine's bell.

[Jamie McMurray]

What'd you say?

[Travis]

Mine's bell Sleeper. If he could. If he could move up a couple more spots.

[Jamie McMurray]

Still a legit contender.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, he's not a sleeper to me. He's supposed to be in that.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, because he's like, you said this. There's only 30 points from 10th to 5th that. That could flip flop.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Before the Chase starts. And if. If I think everybody's put sixth place on the.

[Travis]

That's kind of the.

[Jamie McMurray]

The break. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

There's definitely some guys that. That stand out to me, that, that, you know, Josevar Suarez having great years. Busher's just a quiet, solid. He's always kind of hangs in that area, it seems like.

[Jamie McMurray]

Yeah, he's. He's a little silent assassin.

[Dale Jr.]

He is.

[Jamie McMurray]

You just never hear of him. And then you look up and. And there he is.

[Travis]

Yeah. He hasn't had one race where you're like, you think.

[Jamie McMurray]

Do you guys think he and Priests are that funny? I don't. I don't mean, like, I don't think they're funny. I just mean, like, I didn't know that like they play these pranks on each other.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. They have this little thing that their

[Jamie McMurray]

social media team that's coming up with that or is that. Are they.

[Dale Jr.]

I think it's a little bit of both. Yeah, they're kind of into it a little bit too. Kind of fun with it and.

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, I think what's funny is neither of them I think of as funny people.

[Dale Jr.]

No. Oh, yeah.

[Jamie McMurray]

Smile, you know, like he.

[Travis]

Yeah, just they play it well off each other. I think you're starting to see that more with drivers and their like characters through social media. So like we pre taped a show for next week cause Denny's off and we had Todd Gillen and Connor Zillich filling in and like I didn't realize how much Todd talks and like just hearing about the different things and like I think you're starting to see what these drivers have and they're, you know, showing a little more of themselves.

[Dale Jr.]

The look on Priest's face when he was doing that signing and Chris pulls up in that truck. That, like that, that still image. Have you seen it?

[Jamie McMurray]

Well, and I didn't. I watched that, but I wasn't. I didn't realize it was his truck.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, yeah, yeah, he didn't realize it either. But the look on his face when he saw it, it's like it's funny to see their personality. It's good to see their personality. It is good and yeah, it's funny. All right, so that's this week's dirty Mode do segment and it's been brought to you by FanDuel, the premier gaming destination in the United States. All right, well, thanks for joining us, Jamie. It was a pleasure having you on.

[Jamie McMurray]

It was fun. I enjoyed it.

[Dale Jr.]

Travis enjoyed it as well, I'm sure.

[Travis]

Yeah, come back anytime.

[Dale Jr.]

All right, we'd like to thank you guys for joining us in the RB studio. Don't forget about Arby's new meat and three box. Get more meal for your money. At Arby's we have the meats.

[Travis]

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