David Ruderman (2:44)

It's been, it's been a long time for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (2:46)

Yeah, it has. We're going to talk about your career, your childhood, growing up in a racing family and, and I've been looking forward to this. Haven't hadn't heard from you in a long time. But one of the things that I've always kind of been curious about is the last name Rudemann is synonymous with motorsports. You have a lot of racing history in your family. Tell me about that.

David Ruderman (3:13)

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, kind of like yourself. I mean, the, my dad was especially around the dirt tracks and short tracks of Florida and later on up in New York and things of that nature. He was kind of well known at that level, you know, and so, I mean, yeah, it was just, you know, I always grew up around a racetrack. Most of my friends were, had race and fathers and things of that nature. And so you would just, I can remember to this day being on the back straightaway at Middletown, New York, in the back of a station wagon, playing with little cars and getting in the dirt and being a, being a kid. So, I mean, it's like I never really knew I was living or being raised any different than most of the kids around because, I mean, that's all I was around, was just racing Friday, Saturday, Sunday, there was all kinds of racing and then, yeah, special races on Thursday up there. So, I mean, yeah, it was, I mean, heck, you got, eventually you kind of got tired of going to racetrack, you know, a little bit.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (4:33)

So you were born in Florida, though. How, how do you get from Florida to the Northeast?

David Ruderman (4:41)

Yeah, well, it's my dad, when he started racing, he was wanting, you know, to race for a living and, and do the things that, you know, a racer does. And so I think one year my dad was a parts guide at our Chevrolet dealership in Florida and in Zephyr Hills. And so I think probably I, I, I think if I, if I remember the story, because I remember, I, I don't, I don't. Everything's from memory and I don't do that well anymore. Yeah. But I think Will Cagle, which was another guy from Tampa who was having a lot of success up up in New York, Pennsylvania, things that, that area, uh, he stopped in because his trailer lights quit working and he had to have his trailer fixed. And my dad went out, looked at his car and they got to talking. And so the next year when Will went north, my dad just went north, really. Just, you know, because, you know, he knew he could race and make a living or he thought he could anyway. And yeah, I mean, he's, he went up there and I don't think, from what I hear, I don't think it was an immediate success, you know, going in. I think probably he wrecked a lot, you know, kind of like me. I always blame him for everything I did wrong because I was like, well, you taught me, so if I crash stuff, it's automatically your fault. But. But he's. Yeah, he was, he. He told me, he goes, I would always, when I started race running decent, I would always race for seventh spot because I knew what seven paid. And once, you know, so if I ran seventh, you know, once I got the seventh, I was, I was good. And then, you know, then eventually it got, you know, run in his top five and then, you know, eventually, you know, over a span of a couple of years, I think he was one of the, the better guys up there.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (6:39)

Yeah. What age were you when you ended up moving out of Florida?

David Ruderman (6:46)

Well, we would like, we would go to New York and race part of the year and then go back to Florida. Yeah. So I was just, you know, back and forth. Yeah. Kind of nomadic, I guess. Really very much. Yeah. So I was in and out schools and really. And things of that nature. Yeah. So, you know, I didn't.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (7:02)

Did you finish school?

David Ruderman (7:03)

Yeah, I finished. Yeah, I didn't, I didn't go to college, but I got finished school. I think they probably just threw me out of high school. Probably eventually got tired of seeing me.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (7:13)

But had you made up your mind at a young age that you wanted to drive?

David Ruderman (7:17)

Yeah, I mean, I just, I just want. I wasn't racing to try to be in NASCAR or things of that nature. I was just trying to race to be like my dad. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (7:29)

And he truly made a living.

David Ruderman (7:31)

Yeah, he. That's what I mean looking back in, you know, because I asked him, I say, well, how could you make. How could you possibly make a living racing? He said, well, you know, those races for a regular 30 lap show, paid a thousand, twelve hundred bucks, whatever. And that was a lot of money back in 1974, you know, five or whatever, when he was having most of a success. So at that point you could kind of make a living racing. And there were several guys up there doing it. You know, Gary Blue was doing it. You know, Cagle, my dad, Lou Lazaro. You know, all the. All the big names from that era were kind of doing it for a living. So. Yeah, and I think at that point, if you had the drive and you had. Because you built your own stuff, if you built a better car, you could, you know, go out and win with it and outrun some of the guys and do okay, I guess. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (8:31)

Damn. You began driving big block modifieds?

David Ruderman (8:37)

Yeah, yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (8:38)

What. Why Big Block Modifieds?

David Ruderman (8:41)

Well, I was just. Again, I was just trying to be like my dad, but, man, I sucked. I was terrible up there. I was like, in the way.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (8:49)

Yeah, this is like the. The dirt. Big block modified.

David Ruderman (8:53)

Yeah, yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (8:54)

So in the 90s. In the early 90s. So did you ever go to, like, the miles and.

David Ruderman (9:01)

Yeah, I went to Syracuse. Really? A couple times.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (9:03)

What was that like?

David Ruderman (9:03)

That was. It was. It was way, way faster. I had no business being out there for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (9:09)

Why do you say that?

David Ruderman (9:10)

Well, I mean, I just. I. I should have. Is the whole. The whole terminology. You need to crawl before he can walk? Well, I went right into running at that point, you know, big block stuff. And I just, you know, torsion bars. I come. I came from a background of, you know, coil springs and things of that nature. And those cars at that time were torch and bar on the back, coilovers in the front. And I was completely lost. I mean, I had no idea. I think I won maybe one or two races. Maybe. Rest of the time I was kind of just there in the way.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (9:46)

Really. Oh, my. So in 97, is that what you did up until before you got into the Slim Jim All Pro Series?

David Ruderman (9:52)

Yeah, pretty much. I mean, I. I was. I would. You know, I went to high school, and when I got out of high school and I was dirt racing, a kid named Brian. Patty. Yes. Was actually my crew chief. He. He just showed up, you know, and my cousin Sean, who ended up me and my spotter, those super friends because they were quite a bit younger than I was. And, you know, Brian just came and started hanging out, and next thing I know, he was hanging bodies and doing this. Brian was. Yeah. At that time, and still probably to this day, you just show him one time what to do, and he would probably do it better than you could ever could. You ever could. So, I mean. Yeah, so that's kind of how I got my start with, you know, him. And then I went to Race big block modifieds. And he went to up here, you know, to be, you know, he wanted to be a crew chief. And I want, I thought I wanted to be a big block racer and it turns out I was, I was not cut out for that lifestyle for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (10:51)

How do you end up in all pro series?

David Ruderman (10:54)

I, I just, that time again in Florida, you could race like a dirt track on Friday and maybe pick up a payment ride on Saturday or whatever. So I just started doing okay and winning races and you know, got recognized and I got, I started driving for a guy named Jim Brinkley Jr. Started driving his stuff, just local payment stuff. He had an all pro car and then it eventually got recognized and I got involved with a guy named Mike Wakeley out of Georgia and kind of just moved up the ladder, so to speak, again. But in the all pro series I still wasn't, I was still trying to do my own thing and I wasn't really having as much success as some of the guys, for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (11:37)

Yeah, you racked up three wins in the series in 2002 and then you got into some bush races around the same time. You made some one off starts for a few different teams in 2002. Do you remember who those were for and how those deals came together?

David Ruderman (11:59)

I remember. I think probably one of my first big breaks was being involved with Joe Nemechek. And I think probably just because Brian, Patty being a screw chief Brian just. Probably just wore him down to the point where it's like, you know, so I started just doing some, just going and helping at the shop because I was a fabricator and things of that nature, so. Because I mean if you don't have any money, you just learn to build your own stuff. Yeah. And that's kind of how I learned, you know, it's kind of out of necessity. So. Yeah, I mean, I got involved with Joe and we would, Joe eventually would take me to test and then let you drive. Yeah, then you eventually turned into let me drive. At the end of the day they would just go out and say, Eric Phillip Phillips was over there too as well. And he, you know, he was calculating fuel mileage and things of that nature. And they fill the car with fuel, put two tires on it and say, okay, go out and run until it runs out of gas.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (12:59)

Right.

David Ruderman (13:00)

And I would just be out there with my tongue hanging out, you know, trying to just make it a full, you know, full run. And yeah, it was in, you know, and also I, I didn't know enough that when you put tape Tape your car up early in the morning, new tires. It was probably as good as it was going to be. Well, Joe would go out there and. And do that. And I would spend the rest of the day trying to get to lap time.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (13:23)

Not never going to. No chance to go and do it.

David Ruderman (13:25)

No. And I had no idea, you know, why I wasn't any faster. And then, you know, eventually, yeah, I caught on, but geez, it was way longer than I thought it should have been. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (13:36)

There was a deal called the. I guess the Hill Brothers Coffee break of a lifetime. In 2003, you won a contest where the Hill Brothers Coffee picked a driver to receive a full sponsorship for them for five races in the bush series. Do you remember that, how them races went?

David Ruderman (13:54)

Yeah, I mean, I think we did okay. I mean, that.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (13:57)

Go to Joe. Was it a. Yeah, you basically take that package to Joe.

David Ruderman (14:01)

And that was actually probably. They. I think it was probably as I remember it. I think Joe was heavily involved with Hills Brothers and. And it, you know, it just kind of worked out where whoever won the contest was going to go racing Joe stuff. And racing Joe stuff was kind of like, you know, one of the top bushes at the time.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (14:25)

Oh, yeah.

David Ruderman (14:26)

And so if I didn't run good in that stuff, I was probably never going to run good. Right. It was. It was awful. Good equipment. Yeah, for sure. And yeah. So, I mean, yeah, we. I don't know where we finished, but I think we ran okay.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (14:38)

Yeah, I got in Joe. So Joe was hurt in one weekend at Charlotte, and I think it was a 2000 or 2001. And he said. Asked me if I drive his car, and I said, hell, yeah, I'll drive it. It was a cellular.

David Ruderman (14:55)

Yes, cell one.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (14:57)

And Brian Patty and all that. I was like, man, I'll drive it. Course, you know, runs top two everywhere. You were everywhere every time he runs it. And I don't know what was going on that day, and I don't think we ever learned. But we practiced. Okay. Don't remember really qualifying all that great. Maybe. Okay. But wasn't too alarmed. But when the race started, it was like it had a broke axle in it. It just. I mean, I don't know what was wrong with it, but I couldn't drive it. And I felt so terrible because I knew that they were used to running first or second. And I'm like, man, I don't know why I can't drive this thing, Brian, but it is bad. We literally had to park it during the race because I just couldn't Couldn't go. Yeah, couldn't go. But I always kind of wondered what. What was the reason behind the way that car drove. But Brian was a pretty sharp guy. Still at it today. So apparently during those races, you must have gotten some pretty good reviews because you would attempt a couple of cup races for Morgan McClure. They were kind of in the process of winding their existence in the cup series down and didn't qualify if you failed to qualify for those two races. But in 2005, you picked up a opportunity to race. I guess that was the first year you raced for Darrell Waltrip in the truck series full time. And you'd end up picking a win up at Nashville. And I remember now, this is when I remember you. I remember hearing your name a little bit in the All Pro stuff. And I used to pay attention to a little bit of the All Pro stuff. And I had known the Ruderman name because there's people that, you know, they're just in general conversation in motorsports. There's people that have a ton of respect for your family, you know, and what y' all were able to do up north before you ever even got in a truck.

David Ruderman (16:51)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (16:52)

But when you finally got in that truck, obviously it was Darrell Waltrip's truck. And that was a lot of pressure and spotlight.

David Ruderman (16:58)

It was.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (16:59)

Right. Darrell, you know, that. That was what was driving for Daryl like. What was. What was that attention, that new attention like for you?

David Ruderman (17:12)

Well, again, it was kind of like, you know, out of the frying pan into the fire kind of deal. I mean, there was a lot of attention with Daryl's team to it coming on board. Yeah. And, you know, that was their first involvement.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (17:24)

That's right.

David Ruderman (17:25)

Any kind of motorsports or not, I say, you know, NASCAR type stuff. And. Yeah, I mean, I remember being. Because I was working at Joe's, just building side shirts and crush panels and stuff, trying to, you know, stay relevant. And I got a call at home and I thought it was the guys from the shop from Fab Shop just mess around with. Because they would always do that kind of stuff, get on loudspeaker, say, hey, Rick Henry's online one, you know, Roger Pinsky's online to whatever. Yeah. You know, and so I just thought they up their game and brought it to my house. And so. So I didn't believe for a second it was Darrell Walter calling me at home. And. And so eventually. So I was kind of being a smart aleck, I guess, really, to Daryl. Oh, you know, because I thought it was one of the guys And I looked on the back, you know, caller ID on the back of the phone because that's what the Colorado was on that time. And it said it had a number and it was, you know, Derek Walsh phone number. I was like. So I straightened up right away. And again, he asked me to race his, his truck. And of course, I mean, yeah, yeah. I mean, number one, I didn't have any options for one. And number two was sterile. Walter. Right. And when Darrell Waltrip calls you at home, you kind of, you know, kind of listened really. So that was, that was kind of a special time. And you know, for me because I went from just making size her crush panels again. Joe just, Joe didn't need another fabricator. Joe just kept me on just to give me something to do so I could stay in the area, you know. And yeah, it worked out, you know, okay. And matter of fact, 10 minutes later, I got a call from, from Richard Childress to drive the 30 car.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (19:20)

Damn.

David Ruderman (19:21)

The AOL car. Cup car. Yeah. And again, I would, I, I just knew that I had no business quite ready. Yeah, I was not ready. Heck, I don't even know if I was ready to go truck racing, much less cup races.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (19:33)

Yeah, you're, you race full time for Daryl for three years, you would end up, did that, you know, you'd end up racing for Michael after this. How, how did driving for Daryl aid in whatever relationship you developed with Michael? Was Daryl also involved in supporting that process of you going into Michael's program?

David Ruderman (20:03)

Yeah, yeah. Daryl was very supportive of that for sure. And obviously those two being related I think probably had a, a lot to do with it and the fact that, yeah, I mean, Michael was, you know, trying to concentrate on his cup deal. And I don't know if I don't think he had as much time as, you know, as he did at one time to drive the, the, at that time, the bush car. And so, yeah, I mean, and again, I just wanted to drive something. I didn't care what it was.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (20:34)

Michael's bush cars were really good.

David Ruderman (20:36)

They were. And Bobby Kenny was always there and, and, and, and yeah, so it's like. Yeah, it was, it was, you know, things happen really fast in a short period of time. Yeah. And that in that time. But up to that time, man, it was a long road of sleeping in rest areas and doing all kinds of stuff. You know, being on the road at 3 or 4 in the morning.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:00)

What year were you born? How old are you at this point? 2005. Ish.

David Ruderman (21:05)

5. Let's see. Well, I was born in 1970.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:08)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (21:09)

So. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:10)

35.

David Ruderman (21:11)

Yeah. If you ever. If you have, if you have a prime. If I had a prime.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:16)

When do you think it was?

David Ruderman (21:17)

It was way past it. When you got past it. I was past my prime before. Before I got a chance to go to go cup racing for sure. I mean, maybe I was Okay.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:25)

I don't think a lot of people realize how old you were.

David Ruderman (21:27)

No, I don't.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:28)

When all that went down.

David Ruderman (21:29)

Yeah. I think in the cup series, I think I was probably the oldest rookie I'd ever seen. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:34)

Yeah. One of the older. Older.

David Ruderman (21:35)

Yeah. I was an old man for sure. Yeah. Compared to those guys, you know, you didn't look like. Well, I mean, you know, I think probably I wore a hat a lot and my hair, which has always been awful. I had the same haircut since I was born.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (21:49)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (21:49)

Right. So. So I, I looked younger at that point. You know, obviously, you know, I age caught up with me, but, you know, at some point I was. I looked younger than I really was, I guess so.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (22:03)

Hey, tj, you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee, Florida. We're part of the Hendrick Automotive Group. Yes, I have heard of Darren Hart Jr. Chevrolet. I bet you'd be surprised on what type of Chevrolet vehicles we specialize in.

David Ruderman (22:16)

If I had to guess, I'm going to say it would probably be Chevy trucks.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (22:19)

Well, we definitely sell plenty of those, but actually we're really big in commercial vehicles. We actually sell a lot of crane trucks. We're the number one seller actually in crane trucks. Okay. I definitely did not see that coming. Yeah, pretty neat, huh? So for any of our listeners shopping for commercial vehicles, here's some things you need to know about us at Dalenhardt Jr. Chevrolet. We have hundreds of trucks in stock, so you can find what you need fast. And we have people there that can help you with custom orders. So if you want to build the exact vehicle you need, we can do it. We offer complimentary delivery anywhere in the continental U.S. plus, Hendrick Automotive Group is the nation's top rated dealer group. For online reputation, visit dalejrchevy.com and click Commercial. To explore the wide range of available commercial vehicles, our team at Dillon Hart Jr. Chevrolet will give you a world class experience. Chevrolet Together, let's drive. Trimble is the technology company that connects your physical and digital world so industries like transportation and geospatial can get hard work done faster than ever. Every day brings new challenges, decisions, adjustments, real time, moments that matter. With Trimble on your team, you're in command of purpose built tech ecosystems and connected solutions that keep work flowing end to end. Turn data points into decision points, deadlines into finish lines and possibilities into profits. Check out what Trimble can do for you@trimble.com because with Trimble, you can act smarter, move faster, and lead with confidence. Trimble, confidence at every turn. You ran 15 races in Michael's car in 06 and then got the opportunity to go cup Racing in 07. When you got into the cup deal, you would get paired up with Rodney Childers. Was that your. Was he with you right away, right out of the gate?

David Ruderman (24:13)

No, no, I had. Frankie Kerr was originally my crew chief on the cup side. And, and again, I was just testing cup stuff. I wasn't even a driver. They were interviewing other drivers. I was just driving a bush car and testing a Cup car. And then I think Frankie was probably instrumental in getting me hired. Cause, you know, they're like, well, you know, you're looking, you know, elsewhere. Maybe you should look internally, you know, you know, who is employed already. So, yeah, I mean, in. I can remember to this day Frankie telling me, you know, when we were getting ready to go to Daytona, he goes, look, we're not ready to win races yet. You know, we're just trying to qualify. Yeah. And in my mind I was like, the heck with that. I'm ready to win. I'm going to win. Well, I showed up. I was like, no, no, we're definitely not ready to. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (25:05)

The first year with Michael's cup team was a rough one. Yeah, it was, it was. I believe Daryl Jared is a teammate and DJ come out of a Yates car and took the UPS sponsorship to Michael's and, and had a really, really tough year. Michael himself driving his own cars, all of that was a, a big undertaking for Michael. Toyota being new in the cup series, relatively new in the cup series. We're still trying to figure out how to get their program competitive. You just had everything stacked against you while at the same time this being this incredible opportunity, Right?

David Ruderman (25:46)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (25:47)

You know, being at the cup level, you really didn't have many tools and resources just yet.

David Ruderman (25:53)

No.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (25:53)

The team would develop, but out of the gate, that must have been pretty challenging, right, to measure your expectations?

David Ruderman (26:00)

It was. I mean, again, I didn't know any better. I thought, you know, I thought it was probably some of the best stuff. It was by far the best stuff I've ever driven. Yeah. But, you know, but I think reality started to sit in When I was down at the shop and Cornelius there, and they're building that shop, and the. The floor, the walls were up with. The middle part of the shop was just dirt, and. And I remember a bulldozer being stuck in that dirt because it was raining outside and it was a muddy mess. And I was like. I think to myself, I was like, man, I don't think they're ever going to get this done. And eventually, obviously they did, but, man, it was. You know, it was. It was terrible. I mean, all those guys, Del Jarrett and things of that nature. Michael were definitely good to me, but I just. I mean, and qualifying, I mean, you know, at that time, I think there's probably 48 or 50 well funded cup teams at that time for. For less spots than that. And you had to qualify, and it was tough, for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (27:04)

Yeah, I. I can't imagine. I. I had to. I got to experience that just a little bit. Running these last few Xfinity races over the last couple years, not having a spot and having to go out early and not being locked in and just having to sweat that just a little bit. I can't imagine what it must have been like at the cup level for you guys.

David Ruderman (27:26)

I would make myself say I would actually physically throw up before for qualifying.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (27:30)

I believe it.

David Ruderman (27:31)

And in a garbage can and then get in the car and go out there and in. Sometimes, you know, I was the only one to make it in the show. And, you know, in the making the show, you ended up having to bump out your teammates, you know, and sometimes it's Michael, sometimes it was. It was, you know, Jarrett, and sometimes it was me, you know, I mean, so it just. It was. It was very, very cruel. I mean, but just the way it was.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (27:57)

Yeah. You remember going to Daytona and illegal fuel debacle and.

David Ruderman (28:03)

Yeah, I remember.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (28:04)

Very first race.

David Ruderman (28:05)

Yeah. Yeah. And we just got done having a meeting, and Michael said. He goes, whatever we do, we can't be caught cheating. Right. In. In. Then, you know, of course, I mean, our car, our Domino's car, I think was. Was okay, but, you know, there was some stuff going on just because we did. We obviously did not have the speed that we needed to get in, and people were doing anything they could. Again, I'm not sure what went on. Yeah, I've never really. I was just kind of living in my own bubble, really, with my own guys, my own team, and. And I didn't really know what was going on. And also, I knew Michael was a boss and not. Not to ask any questions. Just go with the flow.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (28:49)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (28:50)

Didn't work out.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (28:51)

You collected. In 2008, you collected a handful of top tens, a poll, finished 22nd points. Had to feel pretty good after the. After how rough maybe 2007 was to be able to make the gains. You were 39th in points in that first year, so, you know, definitely kind of trending in the right direction.

David Ruderman (29:11)

Yeah, but still, it wasn't very good, but I mean, it was obviously better for sure. I mean, again, I mean, coming from a team where you had to have your cars built in one shop and then, you know, cars were moved to another shop and, you know, you know, all the stuff that went on with it. I think people don't understand what obstacles Michael had to overcome in the organization had to overcome just to even be at a racetrack, much less be competitive. You know, I mean, a lot. A lot of people didn't see what was going on.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (29:45)

You got with Rodney Childers and he makes a call in the 2009 Coke 600 that would put you in the lead late in the race when the reigns would come. I want to talk about that first win, but first I want to know what, you know, what you. I grew up with Rodney. Me and him went to school together and known him all. Most of my life. And he's got quite a reputation as a crew chief, obviously. But this was, you know, kind of in the. In the beginning stages of that career for him. You got the opportunity to work with him on, on that team. What was that like?

David Ruderman (30:20)

I mean, you know, we. We've been through between Frankie, I think Pemberton was. Was crew chief as well, and he went to Red Bull. And so we were kind of stuck without a crew chief for the most part. And then. And Rodney, it was just coming off. I think he was a crew chief over at. With Abraham Steel, you know, Dodge deal and Dodge deal with that. From what I understand, from what I remember, that deal was coming to an end. And I don't know all specifics, but we were. Rodney and I sat down at the Cracker Barrel right here on 150 and basically hammered out kind of a deal that kind of, you know, made in my crew chief. Yeah, I mean, it's like heck. I mean, heck, for the first truck deal I said with, it was me, myself, Bobby Kennedy and Brian Petty down at the Steak and Shake. I don't know what it is about food, food and, and deals that come together for me, but, you know, it, it, it worked out okay. But yeah, I mean, it's like it was just two guys sitting down, you know, having something to eat and talking racing, you know. You know, it's like, you know, Rodney, you've been around him a bunch, and of course, I didn't know really how good he was at that point until, you know, I. I started, you know, kind of paying attention and, you know, in seeing how involved he was and, you know, how much he observed and, you know, just him being him, really, you know.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (31:56)

Yeah, he's a special dude. Y' all would end up winning that race. And I remember that day. I'd done wrecked out or fallen out of the race, and I was home watching it on TV when they declared you the winner on the front straightaway. I've won my share of races all kinds of ways. And you would end up validating that success later on with a win at Chicago land in 2010. But going back to that first win, the look on your face when they declare you the winner, all the work that you talk about having to do to be able to get that team off the ground, going from. Going. Going from a team not knowing whether you were going to qualify into the race one week to the next, to standing there as a winner and how that would change the program, put you in the Winter Circle program. All the things. All the benefits that come with having a winning car in nascar, all that changed right there in one moment.

David Ruderman (33:01)

Yeah. Yeah, it did, for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (33:02)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (33:03)

I didn't again. You know, as a driver, sometimes you just do what you're told, Right. And Roddy just told me to stay out, so I did. Yeah. And everybody else came in. Yeah. I think we were running, like, 11th or whatever.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (33:17)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (33:17)

And the top 10 came down pit road. And like any good driver, automatically I questioned what Roddy was doing. I was like, that's got to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard of. You know, I mean, it's like those guys obviously know something that we don't. Well, evidently, I should have just kept my mouth shut and held steering wheel, you know, and so we stayed out there. And also, I mean, I. I've. I got into the fence. I was trying to run the top at Charlotte. Yeah. And got in the fence a little bit. So we were going to have to come down pit road and, you know, pull the fenders off. You know, pull. You know, pull a little bit. So the pit stop was not going to be great anyway. Yeah, we're going to lose all that traction position. So I think Brody, in the back of his mind, said, hey, we're gonna we're gonna, you know, you know, be at the back anyway, so why not take a chance at winning this thing? And, yeah, it worked out, but, you know, right away I was like, man, this is not going to go over that good with people because I haven't led a lap yet, you know, at Charlotte, you know, at that point. And, and to win the race and not lead it, you know, when you're having your, Your first dream of winning a Cup race.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (34:27)

Not how you dream.

David Ruderman (34:27)

Yes. Not. Not how you thought it would come at all.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (34:30)

So were you able to enjoy it?

David Ruderman (34:33)

No, not really. Not really because I was always. I, I think probably I never really felt like I belonged anyway, you know, in the sport at that level. The guys around me were kind of larger in life anyway, you know, and, and so I was always worried about getting fired. So it's like. Well, I was like, well, at least if I have a, A race win, at least it can give you a little more life. Life in a sport. Yeah. Although it, albeit it was not the way you want to win races.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (35:11)

No, I thought that same way about winning. I. So you got to forget that my dad, who he was, I. If anybody I get, from my perspective, I would know better than anyone how rare a 20 year career in NASCAR is. Right. And how hard to, like, attain this, you know, something that's just going to be steady. You want to. You and I both wanted to go into the Cup Series. Our dream was to race up for a living.

David Ruderman (35:49)

Yeah. Race for a. Pay our bills.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (35:50)

Yeah. Right. Winning's great, but we just wanted to do it, like, not get fired.

David Ruderman (35:54)

Yeah. Be part of it. Yeah. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (35:56)

And I, I told myself, you know, when I was really young, I said, man, if I could just win once, I think that'll, That'll kind of. That should like, help me, at worst, milk this thing.

David Ruderman (36:10)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (36:10)

For 20 years, right. I was looking out into the Cup Series at drivers who had had the one win or the two wins and made careers, you know, going from ride to ride to ride. Somebody hoping to like, find whatever this guy had left.

David Ruderman (36:26)

Right.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (36:27)

And I was like, man, at worst, I'll have that if I can just win once.

David Ruderman (36:33)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (36:34)

You know, and I don't know, I'm not, I'm not assuming your, your thought process or how you approach this, but I think what I'm hearing kind of feels very similar to mine in terms of, like, I never. A lot of people go into things very cocky or very arrogant or, and, and that works for a lot of people. You know, they believe that they. They believe they belong there. They believe they're better than anybody there. And they go in there and they do it right. They. I wasn't that kind of guy, you know, I kind of had to feel like I needed to. I needed to see myself check a few boxes before I felt like I belonged there or could do it. And, man, I just hoped I could do it for a living because I didn't want to work. Real job, right?

David Ruderman (37:22)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (37:25)

But you would end up having another win at Chicagoland, so you passed Jeff Gordon and held off Carl Edwards. This is in 2010. You know, you and Rodney, I think, are starting to find more speed. There were moments where you could see this, the potential in yourself and him, the team. You know, what, what do you, you know, where does that win fall? Is that kind of the one where you're like, all right, you know, now I feel like I can celebrate this. I deserve this. I earned this.

David Ruderman (38:00)

Yeah, I think so. I mean, but, you know, of course, I mean, you know, you get to thinking in the back of your mind, it's like, well, why can't I win all the time? Because the car was just so good.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:10)

You thought the car.

David Ruderman (38:11)

Yeah, yeah. And it's like. Yeah, it just, you know, it's like thinking back to. You're like, you know, why can't I. Why can't I do this on a regular basis? Yeah. You know, you know, I mean, but, I mean, eventually reality sets in, but. Yeah, it's. It's. It's. It's. I don't know. I mean, look. I mean, looking back, I mean, I wish I would have enjoyed it more.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:36)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (38:36)

For sure. But relate to that. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:40)

Do you have that trophy?

David Ruderman (38:42)

Yeah, I had a trophy.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:43)

Where is it?

David Ruderman (38:45)

It's in house. Yeah. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:47)

So, I mean, you're proud?

David Ruderman (38:49)

I. I don't know. I mean, Yeah, I. I guess.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (38:54)

I mean, not many people have won at that level.

David Ruderman (38:57)

No, no, there's not. But. Yeah, I. I don't. I don't really think about it, especially being through all the stuff I've been through, medically wise and whatever, you know. You know, it kind of puts things in perspective, I guess, really. And so I don't really dwell on that too much or think about it too much. I mean, heck, I mean, to just say I. I've. When I finished race at Richmond and I walked away, I don't think I've watched. I think I watched Truex win the championship the last five laps. Other than that, I don't race. I don't watch cup racing, Alec, at all, really.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (39:37)

Period. Do you think that's because you're just not interested to see it or because you don't want to watch it?

David Ruderman (39:43)

I think very few of us have the opportunity to go out the way we want to. You know. I mean, you didn't get to do that. No, I don't feel like I did. So it was like. And it's not because I'm mad at NASCAR have anything against cup racing. Yeah, it's just a self preservation, I guess really. If, you know, if you're a drug addict, you know, and you want to get clean, you don't hang around with people to do drugs. Well, that's, that's, that's kind of the same thing. That's the same thing.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (40:10)

So that's a, that's very powerful. I've had a lot of guys on here like you and me that we, some got to end it how they wanted. Some, some, some people's careers end how they end. And I don't know that a lot of us end our careers in a very. In the best place. Right. There are some guys that have won championships that, you know, gutted out a final two or three years. DJ is a great example. Right. Daryl Dale Jarrett's final couple of years were very frustrating. Hard, you know, and not more, you know, he deserved better. But I'm. I guess we. I've sat here and I've had this conversation with a lot of guys like you and me that of not some. I want to talk to you about the crashes. I want to talk to you about not getting to end it on your terms. But I guess beyond that, how do you like. I have a. I'm having, I have. Even today I still have a hard time not hanging out with the, the drug addicts. Right.

David Ruderman (41:30)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (41:31)

And like I know that at some point in my life I've got to really kind of like say goodbye or shut the door on this idea of me as a race car driver.

David Ruderman (41:46)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (41:47)

And I really have a hard time like, I guess I think I have a hard time, you know, standing in my house and on any given day wondering my worth and my value if I'm not a race car driver. Right. And because you have built, because you and me have, have only wanted that one thing and we felt like we were only good if we were that one thing. And what are we if we are not that anymore? Right. And we'll go find things that we're interested in. Passion projects, hobbies are other ways to find joy and Happiness. But nothing will ever feel that cup the way racing a car did or being a driver. Right. And so you know, and I don't know that you have the answers, but I always kind of wonder. Everybody has a little bit of a different take on it and you're. The way you just described it, it's like, man, I can't hang out with. I can't. It's like you can't if you're a drug addict, you can't hang out with other addicts if you're trying to quit. And your, your case is unique because yes, you had a, you didn't get to end it the way you wanted, but you did go back to the racetrack. Like you weren't totally, like you didn't leave racing entirely. You just left that part of racing, the, the cup side of racing. You went and raced dirt cars.

David Ruderman (43:18)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (43:18)

And you went and you, you, you crew chief, some late model stuff. I don't. What are you doing these days?

David Ruderman (43:24)

I'm just building, building dirt cars, dirt.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (43:27)

Modifieds and stuff like that around racing.

David Ruderman (43:30)

Yeah, but, but it's a different type of racing for sure.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (43:33)

And that's okay. And that, yeah, that's.

David Ruderman (43:37)

Well, I'm not smart enough to do nothing else, so I mean, you might as well. I mean in plus, I mean when you're one track minded like, like we were, you know, you, you, you don't plan on what to do after your career is over with really.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (43:53)

Right.

David Ruderman (43:54)

So it's like, you know, and then it's over and you're just standing around like, well, what do I do now? I mean, I'm not the driver anymore or a driver for, you know, at least into the way you wanted to do it. So I mean, I mean, and I, I still struggle with that to this day, but it's, it's, it's hard not to watch cup racing or whatever. But at the same time I know for me that, that you know, the effect it'll have on me. So, you know, again I just choose not to go down that path.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (44:28)

I feel like that since we're talking about it, if I'm, if I'm in the broadcast booth working it takes away that feeling. But if I tune in, if I'm sitting at home and turn it on, it's not pleasant.

David Ruderman (44:47)

No, it's not. It sucks.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (44:50)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (44:51)

Yeah, it's terrible.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (44:52)

Like I want to watch it because I need to kind of know what's happening so I can come in here and do this show on Tuesday. And then when I'm in the broadcast booth a year from now. I kind of have been. I'm just kind of gotta. But I'm watching it going, man, I don't. I want to be out there or not at all.

David Ruderman (45:09)

Right.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (45:10)

I can't. It's how. It's hard to be a casual fan of it after having seen behind the curtain and been able to experience what it's like. That's fascinating. Hey, everybody. You want the latest Dell Jr. Download apparel? Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com we're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T shirt again. Check it out at shop.dirtymomedia.com Moms and.

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David Ruderman (46:06)

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Dale Earnhardt Jr. (46:39)

You've recently had some brain surgery. When was that?

David Ruderman (46:42)

It's been about two years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (46:45)

What was that for?

David Ruderman (46:46)

Had what's called a cusack neuroma, which is basically a tumor on. On the back of your brain.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (46:54)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (46:56)

And you know, it's just. It was not cancerous tumor. It's just like a fatty tumor or whatever.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (47:03)

Really.

David Ruderman (47:03)

And. Yeah. And so why do you think you had that?

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (47:07)

What is.

David Ruderman (47:08)

I asked the doctor, I was like, is it because I hit stuff or whatever? And he said, no, you just got lucky.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (47:15)

Jesus.

David Ruderman (47:16)

And again, I mean, part of it was ego because we all have it. And I knew sitting down in a dirt car I was not as good as I thought I should be behind the wheel, you know, because, I mean, my background's dirt racing. So, you know, automatically I felt like as a driver, you just know when you're not performing right, you know, and so I said, well, let me go get checked. So I got checked and they did scan and, you know, whatever, all that stuff. And, and I can't, you know, so I, you know, nowadays you have to go to a specialist and another specialist. Another specialist. And so I went in the doctor's office there and sat down and my X ray was up on the computer screen. And I have no idea what I'm looking at at all, but I knew that different color mass in the center was not supposed to be there.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (48:06)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (48:07)

And. And that's when the doctor said, he goes, yeah, because you. You've got a brain tumor. And he goes, it's got your spinal cord pushed way, way over.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (48:15)

Really.

David Ruderman (48:15)

And, and as I learned, evidently it's a fairly slow growing tumor. So I think I probably had it, you know, you know, obviously in the cup series as well.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (48:28)

Wow. Really?

David Ruderman (48:28)

And so, I mean, again, you want to, you want to take it, you know, use that as an excuse of why you didn't run good sometimes. But you never know. Yeah. You never, you don't know what happened. So.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (48:38)

So where. So they had to go in there and get this out. Even though it wasn't cancerous, they had to remove it because of what it might be doing to your spinal cord and making things, you know, complicated and having some issues down the road. Right. So they go in there and. And it's caused some changes in your, in your cognitive abilities and so forth. And so how, how hard have you worked, I guess, to get back as much as you can. What's that process been like?

David Ruderman (49:10)

Yeah, probably. Probably not as hard as I should have, for sure. I mean, it's easy to get discouraged, right. When you're trying to recover stuff. And. But I mean, I can't hear at all out of my right ear. Had to cut the nerves.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (49:25)

Okay.

David Ruderman (49:25)

Because the tumor had grown up in my ear canal. And you would think, you know, no more rain than I have. You could get inside and play tennis or whatever. But evidently it's kind of tight quarters. So it took a couple surgeons there. Two surgeons, really. Yeah. To go in there.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (49:42)

Two different surgeries.

David Ruderman (49:43)

Yeah. Two different surgeons at the same surgery.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (49:45)

Oh, my God.

David Ruderman (49:46)

Yeah. And so they went there and. And cut it out. And, you know, going in, you know, they said, well, you know, may have to end up cutting your facial Nerve which ends up making your face droop on one side, like, kind of like a headstroke, whatever. And. And, yeah. So, you know, so everything to do with them.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (50:07)

Right, right.

David Ruderman (50:07)

Right side, right side leg, right side arm, right side ear, all that stuff. He just. Basically, it sucks, really. I mean, you know, I mean, I've gotten better, but the doctor always told me, he goes, you have, you know, you. You recover and feel okay, and then you'll go downhill. And he goes, and after about two years, where you're at is where you're at. Where you're at, you're not. You may get a little bit better in some things just by repetition. Yep. But, yeah, so I'm pretty much, you know, as good as I am right now gonna get.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (50:43)

How have you managed that emotionally, and what kind of support have you had to navigate such a challenging thing emotionally?

David Ruderman (50:53)

I don't. I don't know if I'm the best person to ask. I think I'm doing okay. I mean, you just kind of have to adjust to the. The new norm, I guess, really. But, I mean, I find myself all the time, you know, telling the guy shop, yeah, bring that car in. I'll, you know, do this and do that. And then I discovered that I can't. I can't do it. I mean, I'm. I'm not coordinated. I had no balance. I walk around like I'm drunk. I can't talk right now. Not that ever could. But it's even worse now. I mean, it's just like. It's really, really easy to, you know, get down on yourself.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (51:25)

Sure.

David Ruderman (51:26)

And, you know, But I don't know. I mean, I have enough stuff to keep me busy, to kind of keep my mind off the fact that I'm not, you know, as good as I was.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (51:36)

Yeah. What are some of the things that. That do that you do enjoy doing, that keep your mind busy?

David Ruderman (51:43)

We. We ended up renting race cars out for guys who don't really have the time to, you know, to be involved in the sport. They. They just want. It's kind of an arrive and drive kind of thing. So. Yeah, I actually. I kind of enjoy that aspect of it, giving other people the opportunity and going out and seeing myself run. Well, yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (52:07)

Where do y' all race?

David Ruderman (52:09)

Pretty much everywhere. Yeah. From Florida to Pennsylvania.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (52:14)

So you're still traveling a lot?

David Ruderman (52:15)

Yeah, not as much as I was. And now it's in the back seat of a truck as opposed to a jet or whatever. But. But, yeah, those days. Yeah, it's long. Long for sure. Yeah. But, you know, I mean, it's, it's.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (52:28)

That's still probably more fun.

David Ruderman (52:30)

Yeah, I mean, I, I tried, I started crew chief and some payment stuff, you know. Yeah. And, but I mean, think about that. I realized that a guy was tight getting in over Hickory, and so I said, well, come out pit road. Flip, flip the hood up a little bit and slid a 330 second packer in and send him back, back out there. And it went from being tight to spinning out. And right then I came to the conclusion I had no business being messing with, messing with the payment car.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (53:01)

It's like, it can be frustrating.

David Ruderman (53:03)

Yeah. On a Duracar is much, much. It's not easier, but you can make a bigger swing window.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (53:10)

Yeah. Yeah. I haven't learned that lesson. I'm still messing with the late models. Frustrating.

David Ruderman (53:15)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (53:18)

The, the crash at fontana in 07, you know, you, you, you, you had some concussion issues. Went through some experiences with that. You had a 2011 crash at Watkins Glen with David Reagan that was just insane.

David Ruderman (53:37)

Still show that one. Insane.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (53:41)

I don't remember the 04 Texas wreck. But you had some crashes. I've had my share of experiences with concussions and going through the process of trying to get in front of the right person to get well and how well can you get? You know, all those things I've, I've experienced it with. What was your, I guess, you know, how challenging was that? And did you have, you know, did you have a hard time recovering? Did you. Did, did recovery come easy?

David Ruderman (54:23)

Yeah, I mean, I, I think so. I mean, I had several concussions even before one corporation. Right. You know, and so, yeah, I, again, it just always comes back to the fact that I was so concerned about being let go. You wouldn't let. Allow anybody else to get in that race car no matter how bad a job you did. Yeah, yeah. So it was like. So you never really gave yourself the chance to recover. And at that time, NASCAR was obviously a little bit different. They weren't as strict on concussion stuff. So I mean, you could kind of fake it really, and, you know, give the right answers to the questions. And going down the road knowing that you were messed up, you know, and then, you know, get behind the wheel and again, you just don't, you know, as a driver, you don't really think about hurting anybody else or yourself or whatever. You just going out and racing so.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:18)

You know, and you can't not get in the seat.

David Ruderman (55:20)

Yeah, exactly. Because again, you know, in my mind, if I was out of the Sea I could be replaced. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:27)

And afraid somebody could get in your car, run a little better.

David Ruderman (55:30)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:31)

And that's all it took.

David Ruderman (55:32)

That's all. Yeah, that's it.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:33)

Right. Because then you've lit in this fuse where you're still going to get back in the car, but now they're looking at the other guy or somebody's looking at him going, hey, what. What has he got?

David Ruderman (55:42)

Yeah, exactly.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:42)

Can you do that in my car?

David Ruderman (55:45)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (55:46)

I ran, I got hurt in. I wrecked somewhere. I can't remember where, but we went. We went to Richmond the next week and I spun out at the flag stand. I was lost. Couldn't feel the car. Car could be sideways and I couldn't tell, you know, I wasn't. I didn't realize, I guess, how bad I was until I spun out. And I'm like, you know, I was. I was going backwards before I realized I was going backwards and. I know, I guess the Fontana wreck looked pretty bad, you know, do you. And I raced her a couple weeks. I got hurt in 2012 and I probably. I ran the next three or four weeks with issues and symptoms and finally, like the fourth week, I'm like, I think I'm finally out of. Out of the woods here. And then wrecked it Talladega and ended up getting in real bad shape, you know. Do you. Raced hurt. How did you manage, you know, trying to, you know, race smart enough to give yourself the chance to kind of wake up one day and go, all right, there it's gone.

David Ruderman (57:04)

I feel for. Fortunately I wasn't. I think the, the, the head stuff is harder to overcome than the physical stuff is. I mean, if you break a bone or just okay, something. I mean, heck, I can remember being in. Crashing the Daytona and they're trying to fix the car, you know, put it back together. I was still sitting in the seat. My shoulder was partially dislocated because I hit. So. So Bobby Kennedy just reached in there and shoved on it and, and put it back in and, And I was good. And I didn't think nothing. Nothing more about it. So it's like I, I mean, again, you know, it all comes back again. And I keep saying over and over again the, the thought, the fear of getting fired.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (57:51)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (57:51)

Overpowered anything else that was. I thought may have been wrong with me, you know, so I, I would just, you know, I knew I had to get back in the seat. I. In my mind, there were people counting on me again.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (58:06)

And what would you do if you could do it different? Would you. Would you Change anything, I don't think. Yeah.

David Ruderman (58:14)

The only thing I think I would change is probably. I would enjoy the ride a lot more than I did, you know, I mean, I would probably take a little bit of weight off my shoulders and try to look around and say, hey, you know, this is pretty special because. It is.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (58:29)

It is.

David Ruderman (58:30)

And. But I never, you know, I never. I never thought that far ahead, really. It's like, you know.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (58:38)

Yeah. You wouldn't allow yourself to.

David Ruderman (58:39)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (58:40)

Soak in a moment.

David Ruderman (58:41)

Yeah. Not at all. I mean, even after you win. Because you know how it is after you win, you know, you're supposed to do it. You have, like, you know, you do media like. Like on Monday and Tuesday, and then, like, Wednesday rolls around. Well, it's all done with. You have to go do it again. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (58:58)

Back to zero.

David Ruderman (58:59)

Yeah. So it's like you're only. We always have saying you're, you know, you're only as good as your last race.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (59:04)

Right.

David Ruderman (59:05)

And so, yeah, that's. It's kind of. Kind of mentality I always had. So.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (59:09)

Yeah, you talk about the, you know, the frustration of not being able to finish things like, you want help me understand what about the ending of your career is the disappointing part.

David Ruderman (59:24)

I think when I got let go at MWR there towards the end of the season, I should have just stopped then. I mean, I. I drove for some other teams. I drove for Todd, Tommy Baldwin for a while and for a year, and. But again, I mean, those guys, they. They didn't just have the resources. It was no fault of theirs. They just didn't have the resources at that time to. To put a car together that was capable of running in the top five or whatever. So, yeah, I mean, I just, you know, I just. At that point, when they let me go, I just should have stopped and maybe had a chance to come back, but I kept going. And after three or four or five bad races, people kind of tend to forget you ever won at all. Yeah. Right. So, I mean, in my case, that was always the case. I mean, so it was like, well, you know, and when I stepped away from the overall cup side, I was like, well, I'm not going to get a chance to race anything good anymore. I don't. I admire the guys who can just be there, but I just don't want to be there, you know, I mean, I just want it. I mean, either, like. Like you said earlier, you either be involved or not involved, you know, but there's no in between, for the most part. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (60:49)

Was the deal how the deal ended at Michael's. Difficult.

David Ruderman (60:54)

Yes. Yeah, yeah, it was. It was extremely difficult for me because again, you know, I think I've heard the term used before. It's just business, you know. You know, but it's just business if it happens to somebody else. If it happens to you. Yeah, it's not just business. And I, I, I took the racing side of things very personal. And so, yeah, I mean, it, it was difficult, but I mean, have you.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (61:23)

Had the chance to talk to Michael?

David Ruderman (61:27)

No, not really. No. I mean, I, I think we ran across each other, across each other's paths at a dirt. The dirt truck race at Eldora. He was announced on something like that, and he came over for a little bit, but I, I really haven't had much, much of a chance to talk to Michael at all.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (61:47)

What do you think would make you feel better about it?

David Ruderman (61:52)

Still be doing it. Still be doing it, I guess. Really? I mean, I mean. But yeah, I mean, at the end, I mean, you know, there's, there's two, two sides to every story, Right. And I, I wish, I wish I was still doing it at the same time. I mean, it's an, It's a young guy's game, right? It is, yeah. I mean, drivers get younger and younger and younger and. And I was, I mean, I was way too old to do that stuff anymore anyway. But, yeah, I mean, I think at this point, if I had a chance to talk to any individual that was responsible for that, I just wouldn't because all it does is just make those people feel better about the situation. It's not going to do anything for me. So I was like, well, might as well keep my mouth shut.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (62:49)

You end up ending your NASCAR career after 2014. You went back to dirt racing. How long did you race dirt cars? Geez, since I was no.

David Ruderman (63:05)

13.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:06)

After your retirement.

David Ruderman (63:07)

Oh, after retirement.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:08)

How many years did you get?

David Ruderman (63:11)

Well, I mean, I'd always raced dirt on occasion, you know, hit and miss stuff, you know. So, I mean, during your cup career. Yeah, cup racing.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:19)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (63:19)

And so, yeah, I never really stopped racing dirt. And then I just went into again, you know, knowing in the back of my head that, you know, this deal's not forever as far as cup racing, and so you have to figure out what you're going to do at some point. And so the only thing I knew how to do was, you know, build cars. Yeah. So that's kind of what I did. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:43)

And so you drove, though, for a couple more years?

David Ruderman (63:46)

Yeah, I, I drove up until I Think my last race was at East Bay Raceway a couple years ago.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:54)

Damn.

David Ruderman (63:55)

And. Yeah. And. And then that. In that.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (63:59)

Yeah.

David Ruderman (63:59)

At that point, because I knew there's too much work. And again, you can attest there's too much work and preparation and money at any level in racing, but at the dirt modified level, to be the one who holds you back, you know, so the driver can't hold you back. Yeah. You know, if you have the best motor or a good motor, good tires, good car, good crew, but behind the wheel you're not doing your job well, then you shouldn't do it. Yeah. And so I, you know, at that point I was like, I let other people do it because I just didn't feel in my heart that I was going to do a very good job.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (64:37)

When you went to that first race, you made. Okay, let's. Let's dig into this. This is for my benefit. When you made the decision that, hey, I'm the one holding us back, and you went to that next race with somebody else climbing in the car. Right. Did you enjoy that weekend? Was that you didn't.

David Ruderman (64:57)

No.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (64:57)

Did you find a way where going and doing it that way was enjoyable once you figure out a way to get over.

David Ruderman (65:04)

I figured out a way to make it more tolerable, but damn it, that's not what you wanted to hear. Right. But I mean. Yeah, I mean, you, you again, you kind of adjust, make adjustments and do things like that. But in your mind, even if you have, you know, if you have AJ Foy driving your stuff in your mind, you could still probably do a better job. Right. So, I mean, that's.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (65:32)

Wish you were in there.

David Ruderman (65:33)

Yeah. So I mean, that's, you know, so you're out there watching your car race around, and so I had to change hats a little bit from the driver mentality to the car owner mentality. So I was like, so then you start calculating how much tires cost, how much fuel cost, how much motors go for. Not for you. Yeah. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (65:53)

So it's like that didn't matter when you're. You were driving.

David Ruderman (65:56)

When I was driving, I would wreck stuff and get out and say, oh, well, you know, give me another one. I'll go again. But now it's not the same. Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (66:03)

I've enjoyed this conversation. I'll be honest with you. I didn't know about your brain operation. I didn't know about how it changed you as a person. I knew that we had a little common ground on some head injury stuff from back in our driving days. But to See you come in here today and hear your story about what you've had to deal with over the last couple of years has been a bit inspirational, honestly. Listen, nobody knows what it's like to be you but you. But I think there's some people in our industry that understand how physical injury turns you into a new version of yourself. And there's things that will never be as great as they once were and age can do that as well. Just general age. But I want to tell you how much I admire you for coming here today and just being transparent and talking about it. And I think that your. I think that your career, your wins, your ability to get to the top level, your stick to itiveness to get there at 35 years old, to grind out the grassroots short track career you had before your days in the cup series, to leave the sport and go race at the dirt local short tracks in the grassroots level beyond your cup career are admirable things. I really do. I. There's a lot of guys, you shrug your shoulders, but there's a lot of guys that once they are done with the cup, they don't do anything. But then there's the guys like Ricky Rudd will go jump on a go kart, you know, for five or ten years beyond his cup racing and still need to scratch an itch. And I admire like the Schraders and the people that just need to do it.

David Ruderman (68:11)

Yeah.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (68:11)

You know, and even if you didn't get to do it as long as you wanted to, the fact that you walked away from cup and after you saw everything that was there, you met the wizard of Oz. Right. And you went back home and still climbed in that dirt car and went down the road and had fun. Says that you were doing it all for the right reasons, you know, and that you didn't forget kind of what the real reason was that drove you to the racetrack in the first place. There's a. There's the people like that have a heart, have a heart for it, have a love for motorsports, for racing, that's pure. And so I appreciate that about you. I think a lot of people are going to love knowing where you are today and what you're doing. You're one of. We kind of got to a point in the season during our show where we reached out to people online and social media about who they wanted on the show. And that's why you're here. People wanted to hear from you. People want to know where you are, what you're doing.

David Ruderman (69:19)

Well, that's a. That's a. That's a bit of a shock because, I mean, you know, I'm. I'm not, you know, I'm just. I'm just a guy that was. I. I tell people all the time I was. I was on the same ladder as a lot of the superstars were, but I was not at, you know, I was not at the top of the ladder. I was, you know, somewhere in between. And so, I mean, well, not many.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (69:44)

People got to the top of that letter, but you got on the ladder. Not many people even see the ladder. I feel like you. You'd be surprised, David, about how many people care about you and want to know where you are and what you're doing. And you, you know, you're part of the story. We're all, we're all like a. We're all a page or two in this book of the sport and the history of the sport. Right. And your story is a good one. And, you know, anybody that can get in, anybody that can ever get to that. There's kids that are racing today, driving our late models and racing at those dirt tracks and racing those dirt cars you're building that'll never run a lap at the cup level. Right? Never run a lap. And you got all the way up there and won races. And so I feel like that's one thing I wish you had perspective of. If I could give you that today is how profound I guess it is just to have gotten there and seen it and been able to experience it and race on the track with you. I had a lot of fun racing. You.

David Ruderman (71:00)

Generally were so far in front of me, I couldn't see.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (71:04)

That you got a role in there. There around 2009, 2010. You're pretty impressive how y' all built that thing up.

David Ruderman (71:11)

Yeah, it was. They were. That's one thing I probably miss most about the sport, as is the people, you know, that were behind you. You know, I mean, that's one thing you miss. So.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (71:24)

Yeah. Well, I'm glad you came by today.

David Ruderman (71:28)

Thank you.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (71:29)

Thanks for coming in here telling us what. What your story is and. Yeah, I'll be. I'll be wondering what you're off to do next.

David Ruderman (71:39)

Sounds good. Thank you, sir.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (71:40)

Appreciate it, buddy. Dave Rudiment on the Dale Jr. Download.

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David Ruderman (72:24)

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Dale Earnhardt Jr. (72:51)

Subsidiary that was a really emotional conversation there. I really David got up from the table and said he hadn't really talked about what he's been dealing with for the past couple of years with anybody. And I don't feel worthy of being the person that he shares. You know, I don't feel worthy of being the outlet, I guess, for, for that bit of information. But pretty serious outside of the, the brain surgery and, and how that's obviously affected him physically and, and, you know, affected his memory and, and who knows what all's become more challenging for him. But outside of that, as tough as it is, I really have my heart breaks for a lot of the guys that come in here and talk and have this very almost heartbreak themselves over how that. How their career finished. If you bring in 10 veterans, right? 10 retired guys, seven of them might tell you, man, it didn't end like I wanted it to or it didn't, or I don't have a great thing to say about how it ended. And that sucks. And that's what's in front of all the guys that are doing it now. You know, there's a day down the road where you either get to end it on a good note or you get to end it more so really on an acceptable note. I don't think there's anybody that ends it on a high. They just might get lucky enough to end it in a tolerable way where most of them don't get to finish it how they wanted it to finish. And but at the same time, I see David and I see him and those other seven guys, right, that come in here and say they weren't happy how it finished. And I'm like, man, you know, we gotta we gotta remember to use something from David's conversation that we got to get on that ladder and a lot of people don't. I remember when I was 20, looking at the cup grid on Sunday, going, gosh, I just want to be one of those guys one day. And I didn't want nothing more than that. I just wanted to be a Cup driver and I wanted to make a living. I wanted just enough to pay utilities, right? You get that, you attain that and then you want to win, and then you win and you want to win again, and then you want to win.

David Ruderman (75:56)

More and more and more.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (75:58)

And when you get to the finish, you get to the end of that career, your expectations have went from, man, I just love to be out there to, well, I want to win six races every year all the way to the finish. And I don't have a plan to shut it off. And it gets shut off most time it gets shut off for you. And you're kind of, you know, you kind of hit with this reality of, wow, you know, I don't get to have this all my life. And there is a couple guys like David that, that don't get to have it. You know, it kind of their road gets cut short pretty, pretty quickly. But, you know, just tough because I want him to walk out of here feeling better about it. You could tell that it's some disappointment there. And he's. He's kind of ho hum about the whole idea of even making it to cup and winning a race or two when honestly, man, that's pretty incredible. And anyways, you know, I think it'd be good, hopefully. Usually people tell me that after they do this show, they get a ton of people that reach out to them that they haven't heard from in years. Even Josh Schneider, when he did a remote show with us this summer, he's like, I got texts and calls from friends I hadn't seen or heard of in forever. And I know that happens with actual racers, right, that do this show. And I can't wait for him to leave and for this show to get published and for those calls and text messages and so forth to get to him and hopefully give him some more perspective on, you know, his impact and mark on the sport. I always felt like that and I think doing the shows made me feel this way. Maybe before doing this show, I only felt like certain people left an impact, right? Or you had to be a. You had to be a heavy hitter to like really leave a mark. But I've learned doing this show that everybody all the mechanics, crew chiefs, regardless of success, regardless of accolades and statistics, they left an impression. They changed people's lives one way or another. They influenced different people in the shop or amongst their friends and relatives or whatever. They changed people's lives somehow, some way. So anyways, great conversation, pretty emotional, and I hope that y' all enjoyed it. Y' all asked for David and and we all got more than we anticipated and I'm thankful that we got a chance to talk to him today. So it's time to white flag.

David Ruderman (78:49)

White flag.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (78:52)

All right. The teardown was live on YouTube and Twitter following the race. If you hadn't already, go over to DirtyMomedia's YouTube page, hit subscribe, turn on notifications. You won't miss anything, including the teardown. Actions Detrimental Dropped on Monday following Denny's 59th win, almost to 60. Says he's going to get to 70, hopefully before he calls it a career. There's a great breakdown of how his race went. Door Bumper Clear Also dropped on Monday. Austin Cindrick was the guest. And yesterday Dirty Air with TJ came out Wednesday. Herman Schrader and Speed Street. That's today. And then tomorrow, Bless your heart with Amy. On Fridays, we got a new show for you. It's a highlight reel, 30 minutes long. It's a recap show. If you can't listen to all of our shows, maybe there's a show in our lineup that you're curious about, but you ain't got time. You're already listening to several other things. You just don't have time. We've got a highlight show for you called the Dirty 30 and it may show you a little bit about what's happening on each and every show so you get a little bit of feel for the vibe. And maybe you're interested in picking up one of our shows that you're not quite listening to on the regular. The Dirty 30 comes out every Friday. All right, that's the show. Hope you guys enjoyed it. We'll see you tomorrow. For Bless yous heart, check out DirtyMomedia on Instagram, Facebook X and TikTok.

Commercial Announcer (80:19)

Moms and dads, do you wish you could know where your kids shoes are at all times? Now you can with Skecher's newest Apple AirTag compatible sneakers. Find My Skechers. There's a clever hidden airtag compartment under the shoe's insole. It's sleek, secure, and your child can't feel or see it. Then you can check where your kids shoes are on the Find My App. Plus they're available for boys and girls. Get Find my sketchers@skechers.com, a Skechers store near you or wherever kids shoes are sold. Apple Airtags sold separately.

David Ruderman (80:49)

Honey, do not make plans. Saturday, September 13th.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (80:52)

Okay?

David Ruderman (80:53)

Why?

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (80:53)

What's happening? The Walmart Wellness event. Flu shots, health screenings, free samples from.

David Ruderman (80:57)

Those brands you like. All that at Walmart.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (80:59)

We can just walk right in, no appointment needed. Who knew we could cover our health.

David Ruderman (81:02)

And wellness needs at Walmart?

Commercial Announcer (81:04)

Check the calendar. Saturday, September 13th.

Dale Earnhardt Jr. (81:06)

Walmart wellness event. You knew? I knew.

Commercial Announcer (81:10)

Check in on your health at the same place you already shop. Visit Walmart. Saturday, September 13th, for our semiannual wellness event Flu shot. Subject to availability and applicable state law. Age restrictions apply. Free samples while supplies. Last year.