DJD Classics w/ Larry McReynolds: Reliving Dale Sr.’s Daytona 500 Win

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download: DJD Classics w/ Larry McReynolds—Reliving Dale Sr.’s Daytona 500 Win

Podcast: The Dale Jr. Download
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Dirty Mo Media), with Mike Bagley
Guest: Larry McReynolds
Date: December 2, 2025
Episode Theme:
A deep-dive, first-person account from legendary NASCAR crew chief Larry McReynolds, focusing on his emotional and career-defining experience partnering with Dale Earnhardt Sr.—especially the elusive 1998 Daytona 500 victory. Dale Jr. and Mike Bagley join him to explore wrenching personal and team challenges, Earnhardt’s unique psyche, the inside stories of RCR and Robert Yates Racing, and how a single race rewrote NASCAR history and relationships forever.

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Main Theme and Purpose

This episode delivers an intimate behind-the-scenes look at Dale Earnhardt Sr.'s long-awaited 1998 Daytona 500 win from the unique perspective of his then-crew chief, Larry McReynolds. The conversation covers the years leading up to their partnership, the cultural differences between leading teams, Earnhardt Sr.’s stubborn approach, physical challenges, key moments in the 1998 Speedweeks, and the emotional impact of finally securing victory.

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Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Larry McReynolds' Shift to Richard Childress Racing (RCR)

(02:00–11:00)

• Leaving Robert Yates Racing:
  Larry recounts the stress and exhaustion after years of success and tragedy—including the loss of Davey Allison and Ernie Irvin’s crash, while simultaneously building Yates’ second team.
  • “I just mentally, physically, just spent.” — Larry (06:33)
• How the move started:
  Conversation begins with NASCAR's Gary Nelson hinting about RCR's interest as the 1996 season wound down.
• Dale Sr.’s Persistence:
  Earnhardt Sr. and others on the 3 team continually pursued Larry, including a memorable confrontation in Japan:
  • “He comes by and spins me around, said, ‘You gonna take this damn deal or not?’” — Larry (08:10)

2. Culture Shock at RCR

(11:00–16:00)

• Contrast in Team Operations:
  RCR ran with time clocks and rigid structure, differing from Yates’ “whatever it takes” ethos.
  • “Man, they mow over you. If you were standing near that time clock, they gone.” — Larry (11:34)
• Separated Team Cultures:
  RCR’s “shirts and skins” mentality versus Yates’ unified approach; Larry reflects he may have underappreciated the impact of not spending time at the shop before committing.
  • “That was maybe a little bit of a mistake. Maybe I should have went up there and spent a little bit of time…” — Larry (14:31)

3. Dale Sr.'s Challenges and the Crew Chief Shuffle

(16:05–18:55)

• Dale Sr.’s Difficult Years:
  After success with Andy Petrie, the team stagnated, struggling to find a compatible crew chief after Petri’s departure.
  • “They were looking for that magic… somebody that could come in there. And when… when they said [Larry’s] name… we thought they were going to light the world on fire.” — Dale Jr. (18:23)
• Sky-high Expectations:
  Both Earnhardt Sr. and Larry expected not just an 8th championship, but potentially more.

4. Difficult Relationship Dynamics & Earnhardt’s Reluctance

(18:55–26:26)

• First Test Sessions:
  Larry describes Earnhardt’s resistance to testing and new ideas.
  • “He’s not big on testing. So he laid the law down to me.” — Larry (20:04)
• Veteran Driver Stubbornness:
  Dale Jr. notes the difficulty in getting veteran drivers to try new things or test more:
  • “When you get older, you think you have all the answers… you’re lazy… that 25-year-old’s doing that work and he’s open minded... while the old man isn’t even at the racetrack.” — Dale Jr. (23:08)
• Earnhardt's Injuries:
  Larry reveals how much Dale’s physical limitations (from his 1996 Talladega wreck) affected communication.
  • “All the time (in ‘97)... he would say ‘I’m just not comfortable.’ ...I couldn’t fix that.” — Larry (26:49)
• Post-script Closure:
  Years later, after neck surgery restored Dale’s feeling, Earnhardt admitted:
  • “You and I never had a fair shot at our race cars... damn it, I wasn’t comfortable. I couldn’t feel my race car.” — (29:05)

5. Building THE Daytona Car & The Lucky Penny Story

(31:40–52:00)

• Developing the 1998 Daytona 500 Car:
  The car was built ahead of time, meticulously wind-tunneled and tested multiple times—sometimes with test drivers, as Dale Sr. often avoided tests.
  • “He was tickled to death [when he first drove the car at Daytona test].” — Larry (37:47)
• Innovations & Driver Preferences:
  Stories illustrate the tension between following the new engineering (pull-down shocks, etc.) and veteran drivers’ preferences.
• Optimism Despite Struggles:
  The team remained hopeful, with Earnhardt exuding confidence throughout Speedweeks.
• The Lucky Penny:
  Dale Sr. was given a lucky penny by a Make-A-Wish child, which he superglued to the dashboard before the 500.
  • “I said, what are you trying to do, Dale? He said, I got this penny, lucky penny. I’ll put it on dash my car.” — Larry (49:08)
  • “He had enough glue on that penny to glue 100 pennies on the dash.” — Larry (52:11)

6. The 1998 Daytona 500 Win — Race Day & Aftermath

(52:00–62:30)

• Race Day Nerves & The Captain Jack Radio Incident:
  RCR tradition meant Bill France Jr. might radio Dale as "Captain Jack." Larry almost cussed out the NASCAR president, not recognizing the code name.
  • “Hey, Sunday Money, this is Captain Jack. Why don’t you go snag that big one today?” — Bill France Jr. (voice, 55:36)
• Near-Flawless Execution:
  The race unfolded nearly perfectly—good pit stops, minimal adjustments, and “no weird things” befalling the 3 car.
• Closure and Emotional Impact:
  The final caution allowed the team rare confidence to savor the win as Dale took the checkered flag.
  • “To watch, especially your dad and Richard...it’s almost like watching your kids unwrap their presents on Christmas. That’s what it meant to me.” — Larry (62:23)

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments (with Timestamps)

• On Earnhardt’s Relentlessness:
  “You going to take this damn deal or not?” — Dale Earnhardt Sr., recounted by Larry (08:10)

• On the Cultural Divide:
  “I said, what the hell’s a time clock? Never seen a time clock in a race shop before.” — Larry (11:34)

• On Veteran Stubbornness:
  “When you get older, you think you have all the answers.” — Dale Jr. (23:08)

• On Incomplete Communication:
  “The phrase he would use to describe the car to me was, ‘I’m just not comfortable.’” — Larry (26:49)

• On Post-Operation Clarity:
  “Larry, you and I never had a fair shot at our race cars...I can feel my race car again.” — Earnhardt Sr. to Larry, after 2000 surgery (29:08)

• On the Lucky Penny:
  “He brought it up in victory lane. He genuinely felt, yeah. And he believed in that penny.” — Dale Jr. (52:07)

• Confidence at Daytona:
  “He just loved to go out there... I said, dale, why don’t you get back in the pack and let’s see what that thing will do... His response was ‘Don’t plan on being there.’” — Larry (44:02 & 44:26)

• On Finally Winning:
  “I just happened to be the guy when it all finally came together… None of those things happened to that 3 car.” — Larry (57:23) “I felt like the weight of the world that was lifted off my shoulders.” — Larry (58:25) “To watch, especially your dad and Richard...it’s almost like watching your kids unwrap their presents on Christmas. That’s what it meant to me.” — Larry (62:23)

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Important Timestamps & Segments

• [02:00–11:00]: Larry discusses leaving Robert Yates Racing, being approached by RCR & Earnhardt Sr.
• [11:00–16:00]: Culture clash between Yates and RCR
• [16:05–18:55]: Explanation of why Earnhardt Sr. was looking for a new crew chief in 1997
• [20:03]: First experiences working directly with Dale Sr.; resistance to testing
• [26:49]: Dale Sr.’s cryptic feedback and health issues
• [29:08]: Earnhardt’s 2000 admission of physical limitation
• [31:40–34:54]: Building and testing the eventual 1998 Daytona-winning car
• [47:54–52:11]: Lucky penny story, car troubles before the 500, and the Make-A-Wish child’s gift
• [52:00–55:43]: Race day nerves, the “Captain Jack” radio moment, pit strategy explained
• [62:23]: Larry’s Christmas morning analogy for victory lane

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Tone and Takeaways

• The episode is candid, layered with both humor and hard-earned wisdom, revealing the struggles, heartache, and eventual triumph behind one of NASCAR's most iconic moments.
• Dale Jr. openly admits his own misconceptions and expresses gratitude for the new understanding gained from Larry’s detailed storytelling, offering listeners a fresh and deeply personal angle on his father’s legacy.

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Final Thoughts

This classic episode stands out for the raw honesty and new perspective it brings to a legendary racing partnership and moment. Listeners walk away appreciating the complicated, gritty, and redemptive journey behind Dale Sr.'s 1998 Daytona 500 win—one that was, as Larry says, “just as special as watching your kids unwrap their presents on Christmas.”

Transcript

[Larry McReynolds]

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[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

Hey, can you wrap these please?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow.

[Larry McReynolds]

IPhone 17s.

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

You splurge at T Mobile, you can get four iPhone 17s on them. The new Center Stage front camera is amazing for group selfies. It's the perfect gift for everyone.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm the worst.

[Larry McReynolds]

I only got my mom a robe.

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

Well, it's better than socks.

[Larry McReynolds]

So I have to trade in my old phone, right?

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

No AT T Mobile. There's no trade ins needed when you switch. Keep your old phone or give it as a gift.

[Larry McReynolds]

Incredible.

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

In fact, wrap up my old phone too for my aunt Rosa.

[Larry McReynolds]

Forget that.

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

Aunt Liz will be jealous.

[Larry McReynolds]

Sounds like my family drama.

[Unidentified Speaker]

Oh, I got it.

[Unidentified Gift Wrapping Participant]

I'll give it to my abuela. I'll take reindeer paper with. Hey, where are you going?

[Larry McReynolds]

To T Mobile.

[Mike Bagley]

The holidays are better.

[Larry McReynolds]

AT T Mobile get four iPhone 17s on us.

[Mike Bagley]

No trade in needed when you switch.

[Larry McReynolds]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Following is a production of Dirty Bone Media.

[Mike Bagley]

Hey, let's rewind a DJD classic.

[Larry McReynolds]

Enjoy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There he is.

[Larry McReynolds]

What's going on? Hey, y' all didn't have enough of me the first time, huh?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I will say this is like the quickest turnaround for a return guest we've ever had.

[Mike Bagley]

Have we even had a return guest? You might be the first.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I might be. It might be.

[Larry McReynolds]

I'm flattered. Very flattered.

[Mike Bagley]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Well, we are too. We're glad that you were. You're excited to come back and one of the things, you know, we talked a lot about your career from the start and told and really learned a bunch about you. There was so much that we didn't get into and honestly, I'm gonna go ahead and say it before we even get started. We're gonna have to have you come back for A third or fourth time, probably, to be able to dig into it.

[Larry McReynolds]

I'm like a cat. I've had nine lives.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You have a lot of layers, you know, to your career. It's amazing when you sit down and really look at it. But one of the things, you know, we're coming in at Daytona 500, and one of the things that we reached out to you and you said you'd be glad to come talk to us about is the 1998 Daytona 500 win. But bigger than that, really, that whole relationship with dad. So let's just start with where were you in your career personally when you got either the phone call or the conversation started happening about you coming to rcr?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah. You know, I never saw myself leaving Robert Yates Racing. You know, Robert was my best friend. But as the end of the 96 season was closing out, I was mentally and physically beat to death.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Why?

[Larry McReynolds]

So just think of everything that we went through with the 28 car, Dale. You know, we. I go there, no question. Going to the 28 car with Robert Yates and Davey Allison put Larry McReynolds on the NASCAR map and the success that we started having. And it started almost immediately when I went there in 91. And then Davey Allison became my best friend. You know, my relationship with him as a driver and a crew chief was small compared to our friendship. I mean, we even had our sons baptized together. And Linda and I are Robbie Allison's godparents, and Davey and Liz are Brandon's godparents. That's just the relationship that we had. And then, you know, you get a phone call on July 13th of 1993 that not only the race car driver that you were enjoying all the success with, but you, your best friend has crashed in a helicopter. And we overcame that as a race team. I still think about Davey Allison every single day. There's not a day that goes by that I don't think about him in some capacity. Again, my best friend. But we rebuilt, and Ernie Irvin comes and drives that 28 car, and we start winning races hand over fist. And battling your dad and them in 1994 for the championship looked like no question. 3 and 28 is what it was going to come down to. Once again, you least expect it. A practice on a Saturday morning at Michigan, just a practice, and you blow a right front tire. And the driver that you have rebuilt with again, not only maybe his career is over, but at that point, we didn't know if he was even going to survive this crash. Should have died, no question. So he comes back in 96. But the other thing that happened, Robert started the second team in 96. And one of my biggest faults is I don't know how to say, no, I can't do that. And Robert came to me as 95 was closing out and said, you're still going to be the crew Chief for the 28 car, but I need you to. To oversee and put this 88 team together. And I need you to make. I need you to be the glue that keeps them together. I guess that's another way of saying competition director. And, you know, we had a lot of success in 96. You know, Ernie Irving comes back, we win a couple of races. Dale Jarrett jumps out there and wins the Busch Clash and the Daytona 500. The first weekend as a brand new race team, the success was off the chart. But I felt all the time like trying to make those two teams work together like Robert wanted them. I felt like a guy that had two extension cords that just wouldn't quite reach, and I had to hold them together all the time, plus be the crew chief of the 28 car. I just mentally, physically, just spent.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And so did. How did the conversation begin with. With Richard or dad?

[Larry McReynolds]

The weirdest thing on earth. I think Gary Nelson, who was the series director then, longtime crew chief, and he works in the Rolex series now, he. He almost kind of sensed something was going on with me. You know, he. He would. Gary was in that garage year, and he talked to crew chiefs, and I think he kind of sensed something going on with me. And of course, Andy Petrie had left the 3 car at the end of 95 to go do his own deal. And they kind of had an interim crew chief or crew chiefs for the three. In 96, it was between David and Bobby Hutchins. We were at Rockingham three or four races from the end of the 96 season. And Gary come wandering by on Saturday afternoon about the time the garage was closing. He said, what's up with you? And I said, I don't know, Gary. I'm just wore out mentally and physically. He said, what are you going to do next year? And I said, well, I mean, I'm assuming I'm going to stay right where I'm at. You know, I'm not really looking for anything. He said, there's a team out here that. That's really interested in you. I said, who is that? He said, I've. He said, I don't need to get involved in this stuff. I said, whoa, whoa.

[Mike Bagley]

Because he's working for nascar?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, you've already thrown this out there. He said, well, I know that 3 bunch would love to have you come over there. And I don't remember who actually reached out to me first. I want to say it. It may have been Bobby Hutchins that, that talked to me. And I remember going to Richard's motorhome in at of the last race of the year, and we met about midway through Saturday, and then we all were on the same plane going to Japan. The whole three team, the whole Robert Yates and Linda and I were sitting up in first class, and the three team was, was rotating, coming up there and talking to me, you know, you going to come over and work with us next year? And then your dad started working on me. And I remember when we were in Japan, I'm down talking to Ernie about the run we just made, and your dad comes by and spins me around, said, you going to take this damn deal or not? I don't know. We got to wait till we get through what we're doing right now. So he was pretty persistent about this deal.

[Mike Bagley]

Was the Yates bunch aware of this at this point?

[Larry McReynolds]

I don't know that they were. You know, your dad was probably a little more subtle than that, but he came right over there to the 28 car and kind of waited. I finished my business and spun me around and asked me, so you gonna do this damn deal or not?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How do you start a conversation with Robert when you make decision on what you're gonna do?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, you know, I went and met with Richard. We met over at his condo at the Speedway. It was actually the Friday and after Thanksgiving. And we went ahead and said, you know, I never even went to welcome, North Carolina. You know, I talked to your dad.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Never went to the shop or anything.

[Larry McReynolds]

No, I've talked to your dad several times. You know, talked to Richard, went and met with him over at his condo the Friday after Thanksgiving. And that's, that's when we, we put all this together. And I went in and talked to Robert on Monday, and that was, it was tough, you know, because Robert Yates was a, was a close friend of.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Mine, just a great guy.

[Larry McReynolds]

And I laid it all out almost just like I just laid it to you. I'm just mentally and physically wore out. I, I just need a clean start, just a fresh start.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, is it okay? So that's interesting to me. Like, you know, you're a crew chief and, and, and crew chiefs are particular about their workplace and, and how things are laid out, and you hadn't Even seen it and you took the job. So your impressions when you walk into the shop at welcome, had you ever had you have any idea what it was going to look like structurally, how it was laid out where you. Because you're coming from always. I guess this is interesting to me because I'm at the. And just like anyone else in the garage we are, we all think, man, I just want to look inside HMS one day. I just want to go in there once and just see what they're doing. And you think this all kinds of cool, awesome stuff's happening there.

[Mike Bagley]

Streets of gold.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You go in there, it's the same car, same type of people, same parts and pieces. It's just a different culture. Yeah, right. And that's what you kind of learn is like the Hendrick way is what really makes them successful. But man, forever you just wanted to look behind the curtain. I don't think it was quite the same scenario for you. You're in a pretty good place with Yates. They've got an amazing program. But when you see the shop and the culture and all that, what was your impression?

[Larry McReynolds]

It after a few days it was a little bit overwhelming.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

In what way?

[Larry McReynolds]

Just different culture, you know, I remember the first day I was there. Well, first when I walked in there and I looked on a wall over by the men's room and there was a time clock on the wall and I said, what the hell's a time clock? Never seen a time clock in a race shop before. And sure enough, about 4:30 that first day there, man, they mow over you. If you were standing near that time clock, they gone. So this is a little bit hard for me because at Robert Yates we didn't have time clocks, we didn't even have set hours. We worked from till to cant and it just everything. And I'm not saying it was bad, I'm not saying it was good. I'm just saying it was very, very different. You know, just the whole way you went about things. Even though, you know, my first year there they had migrated to a second team, the 31 team with Mike Skinner. And that was even very different from Yates. At Yates, when we were at that shop, we were Robert Yates Racing. You know, nobody had different uniforms on and you might have two 28 cars sitting beside each other and an 88 car sitting beside that. It was one team filled in two cars. But up there, even from the beginning, the three car was at the top of the hill, the 31 car was at the bottom of the hill. Literally it Was almost like skins and shirts within one organization. And you know, at Roberts, if we went to the wind tunnel on Wednesday night and we found 15 or 20 pounds of front downforce with a front fender configuration, by God, we went back to Dwell street and we cut a fender off and got it on there before we loaded that truck to go wherever we were going. Little different culture at Richard Childress Racing. You had to almost go through channels to get that done because mainly cause that damn time clock over there on the wall.

[Mike Bagley]

Don't you think that's because of you though? I mean you would have helped establish that multi team culture at Yates. And if you were, if you had your hands in both buckets from the beginning, that was kind of what he asked you to do is help get that second team. You're basically right in the culture as, as it's happening, aren't you?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, but you know, I just think that the people were very different. You know, Todd Parrott, who was the crew chief that we hired to do the 88, him and I had a lot of the same mentality and that's whatever it takes. We're not worried about what time we're leaving the shop. And that's kind of how he acclimated his guys. And I was kind of the same way with the 28 guys from the time I went there in 91, which was a very small group. But when I walked into Richard Childress Racing, that group was already established and they already had ways of doing things. And I don't think one guy, no matter who you were, was going to walk in there and change that culture.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's interesting. Do you think that. Did you try like to like infuse a little bit of different attitude or what would your. What were you trying to do personally and emotionally to improve things?

[Larry McReynolds]

Trying to do exactly what you just said. You know, guys, we just went to the wind tunnel and we just found 15 pounds of front downforce. Let's get it in this car that we're taking to Charlotte this week or to Darlington or wherever. And that just was not the mentality there. The mentality as well. This car is done, but we've got this car that we can still get it done on for the next week or the week after. It just. It was a different thinking structure. But back to your point about me never going to the shop, Dale, I look back and was that maybe a little bit of a mistake? Maybe, maybe I should have went up there and spent a little bit of time talking to some guys. But all I know is that I was wore out and tired. I didn't want to change what I did for a living. And in my book, the greatest race car driver ever to grip a steering wheel on a race car was want me to come to work with him. That's really all I needed was the name above that door.

[Mike Bagley]

Now, I got to ask, though, if you had gone up to that shop.

[Larry McReynolds]

Would you think it would have spooked you?

[Mike Bagley]

Just the differences enough to not go?

[Larry McReynolds]

I probably would have had deeper conversations with Richard about what can we do to. To get things. I'm not saying I want to come in here and suck the walls clean and start from scratch. You guys have been winning races. It's not like y' all been at the bottom of the barrel. But what can we do to maybe change the culture just a little bit here and kind of take more of a whatever it takes type attitude?

[Mike Bagley]

Maybe both you guys could answer this. Give me some context behind what your dad's season was like before. Like, why are we switching crew chiefs? What was his 97 like?

[Larry McReynolds]

Well, 90, 96. I think he won a couple races.

[Mike Bagley]

Was he struggling?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, things weren't. Things hadn't really been that great since 91. I think, like, after.

[Larry McReynolds]

Well, they had pretty good success with Petrie. They did won a couple of championships.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They had. They were very good with Petrie. And I remember going to that banquet and here. And then learning about Petrie leaving. That was a. That was a big.

[Mike Bagley]

Oh, because he was starting his own team. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was disappointing. I think dad was not entirely in favor with that. Oh. I mean, Petrie was really good.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, he won all them races with Harry before he came to rcr. And just Petrie and dad, they had a Petrie's. Petri. Petrie really fit that RCR kind of question mentality. And so it was like, damn, we found our guy. Because Shelmerdine had done it for so long. That's right. Then Shelmerdine sort of, you know, got to the end of his rope, and that deal was, you know, they decided, I'll go a different way after 92, I think. And now they found Petrie. That seemed to be like, the right. This was the answer. Right. And so I think the guys that they put in there that you mentioned, Hudson.

[Larry McReynolds]

They put David Smith and kind of Bobby kind of doing it together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

David was the Jackman forever on the team through the late 80s. And Bobby had been there a long time, and I just don't know that they were crew chief material or they were cut out to handle that much more responsibility and all of the things you deal with. The crew chief job had changed quite a bit, I think you could say, over the. Over the decade in that particular time. But it just wasn't working. It just wasn't working. And they were looking for that magic, you know, that magic switch again. Somebody like, you know, they were trying to find the next Petri or somebody that could come in there. And when. When they said his name and, I mean, with the success that he had had, we thought that they were going to light the world on.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah. I mean, nobody's expectations were any higher, I don't think, than your dad's and mine. You know, if we. All the success I'd had at Robert Yates Racing and marry that with Dale Earnhardt, Holy smoley. It's not a question about an eighth championship. It's, can we maybe win nine to ten? You know, just the. The expectations. Not. Not on other people's part. But Dale and Ma, they. They were. They were off the chart.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Do you remember the first time y' all actually go to work together, whether it's at a test or any kind of thing? What was the first thing y' all did where you're. You're. You got his full attention, and you got some. You got your car in front of you, and y' all are going to the racetrack to work on it?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah. I mean, the first time we went and tested, which is obviously right up your dad's wheelhouse, was Daytona, you know, in early January of 97. And, you know, we were fast right out of the box, and car drove good. But my first true encounter after I officially had my name on the door as crew chief, was your dad came up there, and he came in my office because I talked to him. I talked to him about every day on the phone. I said, when are you going to come up here where we can sit down and sort through some stuff? And he said, I'm coming up there Thursday or whatever. So he flew up there in the helicopter and came in my office. I said, dale, we. This was. This was maybe in December. I hadn't been there probably a week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow.

[Larry McReynolds]

And he came in my office, and I said, we need to talk about, you know, our testing plan. He said, what the hell we going to test? I said, well, you know, we've got some. We need to look at some tracks that we need to. That you maybe think you guys need to be better at, and we need to go test that. I said, you know, we got to come up with a testing plan. And I knew that day right then, boy, this, this testing thing's going to be a vertical mountain. This. He is not, he is not big on testing. So he laid, he laid the law down to me. He said, I don't test leading into an off weekend. I don't test leading out of an off weekend. If it's a long weekend, we're there four or five days. I'm not going to test those few days in between. I said, well, I got a, I got an idea. Why don't you tell me when we can test?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I remember going to, I remember him. He had Mike Dillon testing his car at Talladega Daytona. Anytime there was like a plate race test, you know, he would have Dylan or Dave Marcus or somebody else testing his car for him. He never even went. And he might show up for half day or a couple hours to jump in it, but most times he wasn't even there.

[Mike Bagley]

I never actually understood why other drivers test cars when it's. It seems to me like it could.

[Larry McReynolds]

Only at best be half beneficial. Daytona and Talladega, you just, you're looking at the stopwatch. That's it. Yeah. And I mean whether it's, it was Dale Earnhardt or whether it was Dave Marcus or Mike Dillon, you just, you're trying to ab stuff and look at that stopwatch. I remember the first time we actually went and tested at a non superspeedway. We went up to Richmond.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Larry McReynolds]

And I had this index card in my pocket. And I had it every race weekend, whether it's a test or race weekend. And I had little what if situations. What if the car's loose? What if the car's tight? And then I had just a list of stuff I wanted to try. And he saw that index card hanging out of my pocket and he grabbed it and said, what's this? I said, well, that's some things I want to try. He looked at it, he says, I've tried that before, tried that before. That didn't work. I ain't trying that. We just about done.

[Mike Bagley]

I helped you out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's so frustrating because, you know, it's frustrating to hear you could not, you.

[Larry McReynolds]

Can'T make this stuff up.

[Mike Bagley]

Some of the, some of it sounds a little similar to the way you would have been in testing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that's true. So that's the problem, that's like the problem in not to, not to hijack the, the, the direction we're going. But dad was struggling like dad was trying to find the Answer. This is like the golden ticket. You don't have opportunities to, to get crew chiefs that are so successful. You're. Anytime you get a new crew chief, if you're a driver, you know, anytime you get a new crew chief, he's going to set this front end up differently, he's going to bump the car differently, he's got a whole different approach. And you can't wait to drive that car through the middle of the corner because in your mind it just might be what you're looking for. And when you get older, I'm just as guilty as dad or any other veteran driver. When you get older, you think you have all the answers. You think you know better, you think you don't. You know what you need to do and don't need to do and what's worth putting time in and what's not worth putting time in. You're lazy. You want, you don't want to test, you don't want to go to Phoenix and test, you don't want to go to Richmond and test, you don't want to do those, that extra work that's really necessary that, that 25 year old is doing, you know, and that 25 year old's doing that work and he's open minded to what the crew chief's telling him and he's soaking all that in and that team's getting better by the second while the old man isn't even at the racetrack. And it's just frustrating because when, when this was all going on, I'm dad's biggest fan.

[Larry McReynolds]

Sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And I'm privy, you know, I'm privy to this information. I would see, you know, Mike Dillon testing his car and I would go, you know, why aren't even leaving those Talladega, you're the man at these places. Why aren't you testing your car? You know, you're. Even though, you know, Mike can go out there and run the same laps, it's just not the same. You know, Dad's in there, he can see there and all those things.

[Mike Bagley]

That's my point.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

If he can, if he's that mutual, you know, magician on the racetrack, why is he in the car hearing what's going on, you know, and taking it all in and trying to figure out how to make things faster. And the fact that he was hard headed about going with this guy who's got some new answers, got some new ideas and he's not even open to like just let this guy have the reins. And I'm not saying that because you're here. Like I really wanted Daddy to win. Right. And I started my career, yet I hadn't got into just worrying about me. You know, I'm still like all on dad every weekend. Let's go win. What's it going to do? Let's get better. And he. It's just frustrating to hear.

[Mike Bagley]

And I'm remembering back to when we had Ernie Irvin on the show. And I remember when Ernie showed up earlier in the 90s, you, you looked at his like, this is somebody that's going to take my dad's throne.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah.

[Mike Bagley]

And so Dale was deeply involved into the success of his dad. I remember you saying that. And so, yeah, this matters these kind of things, these little observations.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So. And I always kind of felt like without ever hearing your side of the story and I definitely haven't had conversations with dad about it, but I've always, I always kind of felt like that man, his I. And you're here to sort of answer these questions. Sure. He. I feel like that throughout the relationship with you and him that he didn't give it the benefit of the doubt or he didn't give it a fair shake or he was too in his. Too hard headed and too in his own. He knew he had his opinion about how things needed to be. And I felt like that, that that was why things didn't result in the, you know, the successes that y' all had dreamed about.

[Larry McReynolds]

In his defense, Dale, I don't want to get too far out in front of our skis here in our story, but, you know, all the time of going with your dad to the racetrack in 97, it didn't matter what track we went to, maybe with the exception of Daytona, Talladega. The phrase he would use to describe the car to me was, I'm just not comfortable.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Larry McReynolds]

I was like, I don't know how to fix that, Dale. You got to give me more than I'm not comfortable. And that's what we fought a lot and that's what kept me awake at night is I just, you know, I would guess at stuff, you know, I'd go down and stand in the corner and try to watch the front tires. I'd try to make him wear white gloves where I could see his hands. Just trying to see what I could pick up on and just. It was almost like throwing darts. But he wasn't feeling good. He still was hurting from that wreck at Talladega. 96. And you know, Richard split him and I up, you know, not quite halfway through 98. And I'm going to spin it all the way to May of 2000. Our two girls went to school together at Cannon. Taylor and Brooke. And, you know, finally, between Teresa, Dr. Branch and Richard, they finally had him have that surgery. He had that surgery on the back of his neck. And the girls had been on a field trip. And it was the Friday of Charlotte, when the track was dark, and I went to pick Brooke up, and I had no idea he was sitting over in his pickup truck. But Dale was there to pick Taylor up. Well, I got a call from Linda, said, we just got a call from Cannon. The bus is running about two hours late. So I went, okay, I'm here now. And I just happened to be, I don't know, daydreaming. And I looked over there, and there was your dad sitting in the pickup truck. And he looked at me, and I looked at him and waved me over there. I went over and sat in his truck. We talked for an hour and a half. And after the conversation, it didn't make me feel any better about the lack of success that him and I had. But it almost brought closure. He looked at me and he said, larry, you and I never had a fair shot at our race cars. He said, you know, I told you, week in and week out, I wasn't comfortable. He says, damn it, I wasn't comfortable. I couldn't feel my race car. And he said, finally had that surgery. He said, I can feel my race car again. And honestly, I think his performance in 2000 showed that. And that's why I go back to. It just breaks my heart. Him and I had a great conversation the day the track opened for inspection in 2001 at Daytona. Just had come off running the Rolex race, man, he had bounce in his step. And I told a lot of people, I said, I'm telling you, he's going to be the man this year. He is going to be the man. He is back. He's back to where he. We all remember Dale Earnhardt. And again, that conversation. I'll always treasure that conversation. Not that it made me feel any better that I couldn't take the greatest race car driver ever grip a steering wheel and get him to victory lane but one time, but at least gave me a little bit of understanding, maybe. What, that the man wasn't lying to me. He wasn't comfortable in that race car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, the one thing y' all did deliver to each other was a win in Daytona. And Dad's been looking for a Daytona 500 win for his whole career, right? And I think for the most part we all, I say we the family. Uncles and, and brothers and sisters and mama and everybody was just thinking, well, maybe it ain't to be. You know, you can't have everything. You can, you know, you can be, you know, he had won almost everything, but maybe that's just something that just he ain't gonna get. But y' all got it. Y' all had it. Y' all made it happen. So one of the things I wanted you to do and asked you if you could when you came is to help us sort of go through that process. Y' all had a year together that you were not competitive as you wanted to be frustrated. So where is the. You have a whole off season to. Every off season. If you don't have a good year, you go into that off season and you spend all those months physically and mentally sort of turning your attitude around, right? Getting your hopes back up and talking to that driver and talking to that crew chief and getting all the reasons why this year is going to be better. So. So kind of run us through that. I mean, what was the interaction like leading into 1998 between you and dad? Where was his attitude? Where was your attitude? How was Yalls communication?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, I mean, we talked quite a bit during the off season and you know, he. Even though I think we were down, I don't think either one of us had really lost our confidence. I don't think we'd lost our confidence in each other. You know, so much was said and so much was written about your dad and I not getting along, and that really was untrue.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, we had some spirited conversations, don't get me wrong, but I looked at your dad and, you know, even after Richard split us up, you know, your dad and I still had many conversations. You know, it just. I think our personalities were so different. You talked about the relationship that him and Kurt had and him and Andy had. They, they were similar. They were kind of laid back. They kind of just took. Went with the flow of things, you know. And old Larry Mack is the high strung guy that's on the 9,000 chip nonstop. And it's. It's like Richard told me when he, when he made the decision to, to. To swap crew chiefs, which I'm very thankful, you know, he didn't just come in and fire me, which he probably had every right to. He said, best thing I can tell you, Larry, you intimidated the damn intimidator. That's all I can tell you. But, but over the off season, we, we still had some energy. We still were optimistic and I think a lot what was giving us a lot of optimism, maybe we were hanging our hat on one thing too many was this car that was built to go to Speed Weeks in 1998. We built that car during the summer of 1997. That car had been in the wind tunnel and had been to Talladega and tested with Marcus and Mike Dillon. Probably been to the wind tunnel three or four times and been tested at Talladega two or three times before your dad ever even laid eyes on it. I mean I remember leaving Michigan in August of 97 and going straight to Detroit. We had that car in the wind tunnel and we tunnels were only in Detroit.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Detroit, they didn't have them down here?

[Larry McReynolds]

No, Detroit or Atlanta, that was your only choice. We almost cut the body off that car after the first trip to the wind tunnel, which I'm very glad we didn't because it was mysterious. The drag on the car was not that good, but when you yawed the car in the wind tunnel the drag didn't go up. And that backed up exactly what Marcus told us the first time he tested it. He said he's going to love this car. He said when you go off in the corner and the data backed it up and you turn the steering wheel, the damn thing don't lose rpm. We don't know why, but we couldn't, we couldn't duplicate cars. You know, back then we put quarter panels and fenders on by. That's good right there. Nail it. As long as it fits a template, nail it. And when we went to Daytona and tested that thing in January, I can still see that Chester crack grin the first time he drove it. He said this thing's good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How come y' all didn't try to race that car in the end of.

[Larry McReynolds]

97 we only had one other race left and of course that was Talladega. And because that was still back when we, we ran, you know, the, the fourth of July race in the summertime. So we only had the one more race and the car that we had run at Talladega in the spring, we ran second to Mark Martin and if he'd worked with me a little more, I think when we got to Talladega in the fall we maybe could have won that race because the race we ran second to Mark at Talladega in the spring, it was a caution free race and we had figured out the six had those real aggressive pull down shocks on. Well, I unloaded at Talladega in the Fall with those pull down shocks on. I don't even know if he got the high gear going down the back stretch. Came in and get them damn things off. I said, dale, that's what beat us in the spring. I don't care. I can't drive that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I remember running those. They were on our xfinity cars in 98, maybe 99 for the. They ever got rid of them. But Mike, they would tie down the car. Literally. The shock, the rear shock had just as much rebound as you could get in it. So when the car got out on the racetrack, the shocks would compress and the shock would hold the car down. And when the car. When the rear tires would leave the ground, the shocks wouldn't come out. So the car would bounce back. Would bounce.

[Mike Bagley]

A huge difference.

[Larry McReynolds]

A bucking horse.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It was a bet. It was painful in your lower back, kidneys in your guts bouncing in the seat like that. And every corner exit was the worst as far as I remember. But it was every lap and we qualified and raced them and you just. That was just what you had to do. Like that's the deal. That's going back to what I was talking about. 45 year old goes out there, makes half a lap, comes in, says, take them off. I ain't driving it. 25 year old goes out there and goes, I can do this. This is what you say I need to do. I got it.

[Larry McReynolds]

And say, are you sure this is faster? Oh yeah, it's faster. I guarantee it's faster.

[Mike Bagley]

I'm wondering how those are faster. It sounds like it would slow you down being as bumpy as well the.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Rear spoilers like an inch lower or something like, you know, all the way around the race.

[Larry McReynolds]

You're getting that old spoiler out of.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The air so fast. Yeah. So interesting. So. All right, go back to the car for. Back to the car you built for Daytona. You got a good, you know, attitudes are still reasonable going into this. Going into the the season. He goes and tests the car. Or is it. Did y' all have January tests? He drives the car.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah, he. That's the first time he ever even saw the car was. And he. He was tickled to death.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So what was testing like with him when he was actually in the car?

[Larry McReynolds]

You know, I think it Daytona, you know, because he loved that place. It wasn't bad, you know and it was kind of a laid back atmosphere, you know. Yeah, you're trying, you know, we still had our box of cardboard box full of cow configurations that we'd go through this you know, all these different matrixes of cows and stuff. And, you know, he's kind of laid back. I think he always kind of enjoyed going to Daytona and testing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I think so too. I really loved those, you know, that January test at Daytona, because everybody was. Everything was new. Everybody's got their new cars.

[Larry McReynolds]

He wasn't real high on. Sitting in line out there waiting on.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Nobody was. That was so miserable. I started. I started taking my MP3 player.

[Mike Bagley]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Because I. Is all that stuff sit out there and I'd be listening to some music. Yeah. That's the only way to get through that.

[Mike Bagley]

But y' all are. Y' all were optimistic.

[Larry McReynolds]

I mean, we were. He.

[Mike Bagley]

He was happy with the car. Did you think you had him? You think this is going to be his best shot?

[Larry McReynolds]

You know, probably no more than I did. 97. I mean, my first time there, you know, I remember we had a very up and down day on pit road. And I look up with 20 laps to go, we're leading the darn thing. And car wasn't handling quite like it should. That's when you talked a lot about handling at Daytona.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What do you mean?

[Larry McReynolds]

Just would pick that push up coming up off the corner, especially on into a run when the fuel load would burn off, tires would lose grip. Thing would. Especially off a turn too. It just want to pick that push up. But we're sitting there leading the thing with 20 laps to go and fighting with Elliot and Gordon and that bunch. Dale Jarrett, Ernie Irvin. And I looked at Richard, I remember with about 17 or 18 to go. And I said, what do you think he said? Had been here way too many times before. With about 11 to go. When that damn thing was barrel rolling down the back straightaway, I totally understood what he was talking about. So, you know, I thought we were in a position to win that thing. Our first time to the racetrack together in 97.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So that was the time where he rolled the car, got out, got an ambulance, got back out of the ambulance, cranked it up, drove it around. When that happened, now people love to, you know, talk about his fans love to talk about that. Was that a bit. What did you think about that?

[Larry McReynolds]

I was lost for words because I'm watching. You know, all we had was a CBS broadcast on a TV in our pit box. I watched the man get out of the car. I had talked to him on the radio. I watched it get in the ambulance. And so I'm walking down pit road to make that turn in the garage area there by the old goodyear building down near the entrance of pit road. And you know how something will catch your eye and you'll go, no. So I saw this black car go by, and I went, can't be. I saw him get out of the car, and then I looked down pit road. He was sitting in the pits, and there wasn't a damn soul around him because everybody went to the garage area. So. But that was just, you know, he said, I looked out that window, and he said I looked. And he said, all the tires are up on that thing. And he said, that's when I got back out of that ambulance. And that poor guy was inside. He said, hit that switch. Fire that thing up. He said, that thing cranked up. Get the hell out of my race car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's funny.

[Larry McReynolds]

But the thing I love about that Dale, Something I've always prided myself in, Regardless if we were winning races or struggling to run in the top 20. Hated DNFs. Even though 97 was an atrocious year for finding victory lane. By finishing that race right there and. And not listed as a DNF, we went the entire season and had zero DNFs. That was something I was very proud.

[Mike Bagley]

Is that right?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That is something that I think me and Tony senior, Tony junior, we all sort of had that attitude, too, about no matter what, you need to try to get back out there and finish. And I mean, there. There's races where you would love to just load the thing up and go home, but, you know, as soon as you do and. And you see those results and, you know that you could have got back out there and finished. There's a weird. It's hard to explain to somebody, I think, that's never went to a race and competed, but there is a massive amount of depression and guilt that you carry with you if you don't finish a race you could have finished. So you crash, right? You miss some parts and fenders and the car's junk. You're going to go out there and ride around in the way A second off the pace or whatever for the rest of the day. Nobody wants to do that. But if you don't do that, right. Knowing you could have. It's such an awful feeling. Dirty, awful feeling. Yeah.

[Larry McReynolds]

That car really shouldn't have finished that race. I mean, that. That there was more stuff missing off that car. And we were taping and bell wire. With bell wire. Anything we could do to. And I'm thinking, they ain't never going to let this thing go back out there. And then on my NASCAR scanner, I said, I heard the words three car clear to go. Hey, I'm curious.

[Mike Bagley]

Even on the years where he wasn't winning the Daytona 500, it seemed like he was winning everything else during speed weeks, right? And I was curious, did he enjoy the shootout or the clash? Did he enjoy the duels? Did he enjoy all that?

[Larry McReynolds]

Man enjoyed practicing at Daytona.

[Mike Bagley]

Really?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah. I mean, he just loved to go out there, and. And I remember with this particular car, you know, we practiced every day, three times a day. And I remember somewhere between Sunday of qualifying in the duel race, you know, your dad was notorious for leaving that garage area and going out there and being the first in line and then leading a group of cars around there for 20 laps. And this one practice, he just led the pack. Led the pack and led the pack. And finally I said, dale, why don't you get back in the pack and let's see what that thing will do at the pack. You know what his response was? Don't plan on being there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, okay, I heard that.

[Mike Bagley]

I'm gonna tell you, that's the most badass response I think I've ever heard.

[Larry McReynolds]

I mean, how was I gonna argue with that? Don't.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Don't, Don't.

[Mike Bagley]

Don't argue with him.

[Larry McReynolds]

That was.

[Mike Bagley]

That 98.

[Larry McReynolds]

That was 98. This was about. This was practice on maybe Tuesday or Wednesday. That car. It's almost like the slicker that track got, the better that car got. It just. It just.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Just.

[Larry McReynolds]

It didn't deteriorate. It didn't go away. It just kept getting better.

[Mike Bagley]

Boy, I have to think that even after all those years of coming close, I'd have to look around and going, this might actually be our year there. I mean, like, he don't plan on being in the back.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, you ding. You know, I know 20 years, and.

[Mike Bagley]

I know, but that is some. That's a level of confidence right there. He, like.

[Larry McReynolds]

He definitely had. He had some bounce in his step the entire speed weeks from the time we unloaded. No question.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Interesting.

[Mike Bagley]

All right, hold up. I got one more question, though, about this. Leading into the race, that was also the year you crashed in Daytona. And so you were like, how. How plugged in were you with all this stuff going on at the. At the time leading into the race?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

None.

[Mike Bagley]

None.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Bagley]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Like, I. I'm, like, up to my eyeballs in with racing that Xfinity car. I mean, I'd never race, you know, anything like this.

[Mike Bagley]

You didn't know you getting that ride.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Until, like, a Month earlier, that cup garage didn't even exist. I had no clue that I CLUE the Daytona 500 was even happening. I don't even remember the duels or any of that, but it was. I was overwhelmed. Yeah. And we flipped and I had. I hit my head and got a concussion and so I was on the couch at home.

[Mike Bagley]

Well, I knew that. I just didn't know if you were watching the 500.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I was so mad because I wasn't. I was feeling like. I was feeling sick, but I wasn't sick enough that I couldn't have been there. If I'd known he's going to win, I'd have probably stayed, but because I would love to have been in that victory lane. Well, all right. Anything unusual about race morning?

[Larry McReynolds]

Not really. Well, it all kind of started, started to unravel. I thought it was unraveling on us. On Friday, your dad started feeling a little under the weather about Wednesday. He was almost like he had a stomach bug or something. And I knew even the day of the duel race he didn't feel good. We won the dual race pretty handedly and I saw him in victory lane, just didn't look good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was he telling you?

[Larry McReynolds]

He had said something about he didn't feel good, his stomach was bothering him, what have you. So after kind of victory lane and pictures or whatever, I don't even remember if it was the first duel or the second duel. So I looked at him, I said, you don't feel very good. He said, larry, I feel horrible. I said, okay, let's do this. What do you think about this? I said, you're happy with this car? He said, car's good. I said, there's two practices tomorrow, Friday. I said, let's skip the morning practice. You sleep in, maybe go infield care center, go see a doctor, whatever. If you'll come out here tomorrow afternoon, we'll go ahead and get our 500 race engine in. And if you'll just run a few laps tomorrow afternoon, let's just make sure nothing leaks, everything's good, and then we'll get serious and happy hour on Saturday. Back then, of course, happy hour still after the Xfinity series race, he said, man, that sounds like the best plan I've heard in a while. So sure enough, we change that engine, take our time Friday morning, you know, crew chief still nervous because it's like, damn, they're out there practicing. We're sitting in here changing engines. You know, it's just typical personality of a crew chief. So we got that engine changed so this plan's right on track until about 10 minutes before that Friday afternoon practice. One of those old afternoon thunderstorms rolled in there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, boy.

[Larry McReynolds]

And washed it out. Okay, we're still good. You know, we still got a full hour tomorrow, and he's still happy with his car. You know, we'll just. We'll dot some I's and cross some T's tomorrow, and we'll be ready to run happy hour. So we're ready and classic your dad, man. He's in that car. He's buckled in, he's ready to drive out the garage gate. I don't even think he got to third gear. Going off pit road, down to turn one. Something's wrong with this engine. So he came in, Danny Lawrence and them, raised the hood. They looked at spark plug wires, making sure they were all on. They pulled the spark plug wires, plugs out, put new ones in, looked a few things, sent it back out. He didn't even get the high gear down the back stretch. Damn it. I'm telling y', all, something's wrong with this engine. So he comes back in, they pull the valve covers off, and I'm looking now, We've already missed 20 minutes of this practice. We've not turned a lap since the checkered flag on Thursday. So I'm definitely getting. Starting to get a little uptight, nervous. So he pulled the valve covers off, and sure enough, on one cylinder, there was a rock arm that was broke and a push rod that was bent.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Dang.

[Larry McReynolds]

Push rod was still there, but it was bent. So Danny very meticulously pulled that rocker arm off. All the pieces were there. Pulled that push rod out, put new ones on, ran the valves on both sides, put it back together, cranked it up, ran fine. He left pit road. We're down to 20 minutes to go in his practice, but he made a 20 lap run. He said, man, it's good. It's golden. I was like, okay, we still. I'm a big why person. We've got to make a decision collectively, Richard. Danny, gotta get Spenny Clenden on the phone or engine builder. I want your dad involved. We gotta go to the lounge, get on the phone. Why did that happen to that engine? Do we need to change this engine before we race tomorrow? So your dad had this habit of final practice. The last run, he'd pull up and get the Goodyear tire sheet. He'd get out of the car. The guys would push the car around to the fuel pumps, and your dad would guide it, and then they'd push it to the garage area and your dad would guide the car standing outside the car. So here comes the three car. No Dale. Where's Dale? I don't know. I don't know. So they're pushing it in there and I'm trying to get Danny's attention. Here comes J.R. rhodes. And I said, J.R. where's Dale? Well, he's out there with some fans. He picked a hell of a time to mix and mingle with fans. I need to talk to that man. We've got a decision to make here about this engine. So finally he comes by me and he walked by me like I wasn't even standing there. And he's got something in his hand and he's on a mission. So I see him over at the toolbox and he's got something in his hand. He's got a tube or something in his hand. Yellow glue. And he's trying to put yellow glue on a penny. And he's got it running down the arm of the sleeve of his darn driver's uniform. I said, what are you trying to do, Dale? He said, I got this penny, lucky penny. I'll put it on dash my car. I said, okay, if I help you put that penny on the dash of the car, can we go and make a decision on this engine? Well, after I got the whole story, I felt about that tall about being ill at him, about. He really wasn't mixing mingling with fans. He was out there with a make a wish child Wesa Miller just still remember today. Her wish was to come to Daytona and meet Dale Earnhardt. And he was out there, you know, having some time with her, and she gave him that penny and said that was her lucky penny she wanted him to have. Good news is we did change the engine. The good news is we did win the race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Find out why the motor's bent the way.

[Larry McReynolds]

I don't know if I ever really got the reason. I just, you know, when I think Spinny and Danny, they. They would have been okay, but I think they were second guessing. You know, God forbid we leave that thing in there. As good as this race car is and we. That's why we have spare engines and we feel like our spare and the backup to the spare is just as good as the primary. Let's put it in there and be done with it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I remember that story about the. The girl make a wish kid and gives him the penalty. Lose a penny to the dash.

[Mike Bagley]

He brought it up in victory lane.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He genuinely felt, yeah. And he believed in that penny.

[Larry McReynolds]

He had enough glue on that penny to glue 100 pennies on the dash.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It wasn't going anywhere.

[Mike Bagley]

That is so neat. And it's so cool to hear that story because that gets such an. There's no other way we would ever hear that. But, but, but that was a prevalent part of his whole celebration, was that penny. I remember as a fan, just when he won that, that was something that really stuck out. Was that the girl, she was handicapped, the penny, he brought her into victory lane, and that was.

[Larry McReynolds]

That was the story.

[Mike Bagley]

And, and, man, to hear you say that. Now I'm curious.

[Larry McReynolds]

Where.

[Mike Bagley]

Where were you guys going to start before you change the engine?

[Larry McReynolds]

Well, we had, I think on the second row because we had won the dual race.

[Mike Bagley]

Because you won the duel.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yeah. Won the dual race.

[Mike Bagley]

So now you're in the back.

[Larry McReynolds]

Yep. And. Well, back then, no, you didn't have to go to the rear for changing engines. Yeah, we changed engines like we changed tires.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They did.

[Mike Bagley]

So you could still start off all right.

[Larry McReynolds]

So, yeah, we didn't give up our start.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So.

[Mike Bagley]

The decision to change the engines was much easier than I would have thought.

[Larry McReynolds]

It was just the fact of having an engine that had not turned a single lap that was the only little thing you're nervous about. But I was a lot less nervous about that engine than I was one that had had an issue on Saturday, even though it ran fine for those 20 or so laps on Saturday.

[Mike Bagley]

What about the race itself?

[Larry McReynolds]

Like, what do you take away of.

[Mike Bagley]

Before you even get to the end? Did things happen in the race that. That stand out to you today?

[Larry McReynolds]

It was. It was almost as flawless as. As the whole week was. You know, pit stops were good. Car drove good. I don't know if we. If we made any adjustments on that thing throughout the day. It was minimal. It may have been a little bit of air pressure. It may have been a little bit of wedge or a little bit of track bar here. There. It was just bare minimum, when I went to work at rcr before we went to Daytona, Richard told me, said, I just need to pre warn you about something. As you know, Dale and Bill France Jr are really tight, and Bill France Jr has a radio, and every once in a while, it's rare, every once in a while he'll talk to Dale on the radio under caution. So the whole 97 season, I never heard Bill France Jr. I guess there wasn't really a lot to talk to us about in 97. So the last caution comes out. I don't know, 20 or so laps to go, and I. I call for two tires. We come in leading, we leave leading. Everybody else did two tires. So it wasn't like we were rolling the dice or any. Just felt like we didn't need to. I felt like a lot of people was going to go with two, and I didn't want to put him in the back with 15 or so laps to go. So make the pit stop. We got the lead behind the pace car, waiting on the one to go, and, man, I was as uptight. If you'd have thumped me, I'd have probably crumbled. So all of a sudden, on the radio, I hear this voice. It says, hey, Sunday Money, this is Captain Jack. And I'm thinking, who the hell is Captain Jack? Who is on our radio? And Richard saw me, and he knew I was about to have me a come apart. Captain Jack is about to get cussed out. Whoever. Captain Jack. And Richard about tackled me, and he kept pointing to. I went, oh, Captain Jack. And he just said, hey, Sunday Money, this is Captain Jack. Why don't you go snag that big one today? Of course, your dad knew who it was. He said, 10, 4, we gonna do it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow, that's pretty.

[Larry McReynolds]

I was about to. My NASCAR career was about. About to come to a close right there, cussing Captain Jack out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So that was the name of the boats.

[Mike Bagley]

You know, I. I got.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't know if anybody listening, of.

[Mike Bagley]

Course, not especially the guy that's at the.

[Larry McReynolds]

Totally forgot about Bill France Jr. And.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Captain Jack having the radio, the president of the sport going on jumping on.

[Larry McReynolds]

The radio, man, and he's about to get cussed out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

If Richard had to stop me, oh, my gosh.

[Mike Bagley]

Who in that race had your most attention there in the last laps as far as who y' all were racing.

[Larry McReynolds]

Against, two Penske cars, you know, Rusty and Jeremy Mayfield. But I'm going to tell you, unless something happened, the confidence I had in Dale Earnhardt, when you put a car out on a racetrack, especially Daytona Talladega, I knew unless something weird happen, which had happened many times as we know, that it was ours to lose. There's just no question that we were not going to get beat. You know, a lot of people look at me today and say, you're my man. You're our guy. You got the man, the Daytona 500. And I stop them. I go, look, that's a flattering comment. I just happened to be the guy that was his crew chief when he didn't have a flat tire. Going off in the turn three on lap. Didn't hit a seagull on the back straightaway, didn't blow an engine leading the race. I just happened to be the guy when it all finally came together. And none of those things happened to that 3 car.

[Mike Bagley]

You know, one of the things that always amazed me about. Is it, you know, like, on YouTube.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I just had to say, like, I. You're. I know you're humble, but there is a. There is the feeling that. That people have that feeling that you are the guy. You're the guy that delivered that elusive win that was so important to dad. He did not want to end his career without something like that. That feeling is legit. Like it's real. And I know that you. He had some great cars. He had some great opportunities. There's some weird things that went on and reasons why he didn't win that race. But. But you know, that. That feeling that. That you played a big role in helping him succeed and win that race. I mean, it's. It's real. And whether you can play it down all you want, and that's just you. Who you are. But.

[Larry McReynolds]

Well, I. I felt like the weight of the world that was lifted off my shoulders.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I wanted to ask you. Like, that race, the caution comes out, right. There was a wreck on the back straightaway. John Andretti and somebody else spins down the back straightaway and they throw the yellow. So instead of the traditional biting your nails to the very bitter end off a turn four, coming to the checkered. Who's going to get a run instead of that going, instead of living through that? You know, y' all are racing back to the yellow, cross the finish line. You know the race isn't going to get restarted, Right?

[Larry McReynolds]

Right. No overtime.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right. So you have almost this uncharacteristic or unusual lap to let it sink in. Right. Looking around and what are you doing?

[Larry McReynolds]

Well, I still was not taking it for granted, Dale.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You just.

[Larry McReynolds]

You weren't going to do it. I was not going to say, this is done until I saw him truly come underneath that checkered flag. And you know Danny Culler, our spotter, when the wreck happened over there coming off turn two on the back stretch, it was really not a bad wreck, but it was enough to bring the caution out. And Danny knew the deal, and I made sure and stayed off the radio. Let Danny talk him back. You know, you got to bring. And of course, I remember Danny. You got to bring it back to the line, champ. You got to bring it back to the. To the line. And then the minute that happened, I said, you've got to make sure maintain caution, lap speed. We got to get back around here one more time. I didn't want that to be the next four freak thing that happened is we don't maintain caution, lap speed and cars pass us or something freak happens. And so, yeah, until I saw that car truly take that checkered flag, mainly, I guess, because of what we had been through in 97 and what I knew the 3 car had been through for 20 years trying to win this thing. I wasn't going to count those chickens until that thing was absolutely underneath that checkered flag.

[Mike Bagley]

What happened then?

[Larry McReynolds]

It's all a blur. Is it? Yeah. Honestly, I mean, I remember Victory Lane. I remember, you know, going to the Unocal suite with your dad and Richard and having a toast and going to Bill Jr. S Captain Jack suite. He gave us all a cigar. Going through the media car wash down on pit road, Richard and your dad and myself. And then the guys had taken the car and tore it apart for inspection. And then you have to put it back together. And honestly, I remember all those things, but it didn't sink into me. It was pouring down rain when they finally loaded that thing back in that little trailer to be able to put it into the Daytona experience the next morning. And none of my family was down there. They were all home sick with the flu. And I remember walking in the pouring down rain from the garage to my motor coach, and it was about 11:30, quarter to 12, and when I sat down to take my shoes off, that's when I think it finally hit me. I went, damn. Just won the Daytona 500 with Dale Earnhardt, I don't think, even though I remember everything that went on. But there's one other moment, Dale and Mike, that I'll never forget as long as I live. It was in Victory Lane. I've told this story a lot. It was in Victory Lane and things were kind of settling down a little bit, you know, but there's still pictures, Pictures after pictures after pictures. And the crew was still there and the car was still there. But I remember kind of taking a step back in watching your dad and Teresa and quite honestly, watching Richard and Judy, it's their first time too. And I was fortunate enough six years prior to experience it with Davey. But it still just as special that it's. I'm sure if you win a third one, it's just as special too. But to watch, especially your dad and Richard, it's almost like watching your kids unwrap their presents on Christmas. That's what it meant to me, to just take that step back and just kind of take it in and watch their smiles and their actions and how much it truly. I'll never forget that as long as I live.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's such a great analogy because that's kind of how it feels. It's like unwrapping a present for Christmas morning. Oh, man. You know, did you go.

[Mike Bagley]

You go to Rockingham next, right?

[Larry McReynolds]

Is that. And use the provisional.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Let's not talk about that. Damn, Mike.

[Mike Bagley]

Well, reality came back in at some point, right?

[Larry McReynolds]

Yep. Like about five days later.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Man, that's the way the sport works. Man, you are a humbling sport. Oh, it is.

[Larry McReynolds]

And you know, the thing about winning the 500 you talked about, you know, what it did mean to me, Trust me, I felt like the weight of the world was lifted off my shoulders. And I am not kidding, I'm not exaggerating is the 97 season was closing out and we had not found victory lane. I was getting hate mail. I was getting mail that said, ford sent you over here to sabotage Dale Earnhardt Sr's career. They sent you over here to sabotage Chevrolet. So I went through all of that. But trust me, after winning that 500, I probably could have run for president and maybe got a few votes.

[Mike Bagley]

My goodness.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that's pretty good. I'm. I'm. I'm. I'm good. I think that's the way to end.

[Mike Bagley]

Well, I mean, listen, Larry, I think. I don't think he's kidding. We got to just keep having you back. I mean, we never really.

[Larry McReynolds]

This is the Dale Jr. Download, not the Larry Mack Download. I know, but you know.

[Mike Bagley]

You know what? I've said this a lot of times, and when people ask me about our show, when I really kind of. I think when we're all done and we look at the overall body of work of what we've done, like years, when it's been done for years, and we look back, it's going to be us getting to really understand. Not really Dale Jr. Getting to understand who Dale Earnhardt was. You've just opened up so much insight into Dale Earnhardt that I don't think Dale knew. And I certainly. And I'm going to tell you, it just feels like a privilege to be able to understand that week and that year and all that you went in. I'm just honored to hear it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. My opinion of Yalls relationship, the split, the two years y' all worked together, year and a half, y' all worked together. All of that was quite different than the way you explain it. And, you know, and I. So I appreciate that because I had a lot of respect for you and always, you know, you did. You were the guy that dad won his 500 with. And I know that they brought you over there with all these great intentions and expectations, and I know that dad was a reason. Dad's bullheadedness and hard headedness certainly had you one hand tied behind your back, whether you'll admit that or not. But, you know, but anyways, I had formed this opinion of how things were and how you even felt about it. Right. So to hear a bit of a different skew on that is really refreshing.

[Larry McReynolds]

Never, never had. Yeah, I'd be so mad at him at times I could just pinch his head off. But. But had all the respect and admiration in the world. And even though we didn't bear a lot of fruit, I wouldn't trade that year and a half for nothing in the world. You know, just one little quick story on the testing and you'll appreciate this, you know, again, he'd already told me I don't test before and off weekend. I don't test after. And he gave me all these stipulations on testing. Well, 97. My first year with him was our first year to go to Texas Motor Speedway. And everybody was going there testing. And Bobby Hutchins had worked for a week. And he finally came to me and said, larry, this is not good. He said, the only days I can get is the Thursday and Friday before Easter. And I said, you want to call him or you want me to call him? Well, I knew he was going down to the Durham Bahamas for Easter, so I said, I'll call him. So I called him. I said, dale, I know this is not what you want to hear, but I said, the only time we can get Texas to test and we really need to go there and test is the Thursday and Friday before Easter. And there was a silence on the phone. And all of a sudden he said, well, I tell you what I'm going to do. I'm not happy about it, but I'm going to fly back Thursday morning. He's already been down there. He said, we'll start testing whenever I get there. We'll test Thursday, we'll test Friday, but at noon I'm out of there. The damn airport in the Bahamas don't have lights and I'm going back on Friday. Okay, that's a lot better than I expected. Dale so helped me. We made the last run, about five minutes to 12 on Friday. By the time that I was up on the hauler and I made a few notes and I wanted to come down to debrief with him, the helmet was swinging into the three car and the rental car was headed out the gate. I had to call him on the cell phone to see what the last run did.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's hilarious.

[Mike Bagley]

Wow, man, listen. Yeah, we should. We gotta end it there, right? Yeah, we gotta end it with a win.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Larry, we appreciate you for coming. You know, we got a lot more to get to. We have. We have all these notes that we put. We have this. We have a shared note system here, and we have a lot of notes from that we did not get to. From your last. From your first interview with us. So we definitely got to get you to come back. There's so many other people's careers that you were a part of, so many other stories that we really need to get from you. So we'd love to have you back sometime this year, but thanks for helping us kick our season off, man. It's a great way to start the year one.

[Larry McReynolds]

I'm flattered just to come do this show with you. I'm always have been a big fan of the show that you guys watch it faithfully. And to be the first show for 2021, that's even very flattering. And just the fans that reached out the first show that said you got to go back and do it again. You got to go back and do again. That. That was very flattering and overwhelming.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, thanks. We appreciate it and people are going to be glad to hear what you got to tell them. And we start our show at the. You know how this is doing tv. You start the season and things get. Things start out and then they just kind of build from there. Your audience builds and everything else. So I don't think that we've ever started the season stronger than this well.

[Larry McReynolds]

So we're going to.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're going to help us have just an incredible year and get a lot of other people's stories out there too. So have a great week, man. Enjoy the Daytona 500. Hard to believe you're gonna be. You're gonna be working again this year and doing what you do as the people's crew chief.

[Larry McReynolds]

America's crew chief.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

America's crew chief. He's the people's crew chief.

[Mike Bagley]

New name. You came to the Download and left with a new name.

[Larry McReynolds]

I just had T shirts made that said America's crew chief. Now my. To have other ones made.

[Mike Bagley]

Go straight to the trademark office and get people's crew chief done.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know Truex's shop. They make T shirts.

[Larry McReynolds]

That's who makes mine.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's who makes mine.

[Larry McReynolds]

They make. Yeah, I think Brandon's the one making money off of it though. He's got a heck of a deal going over there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, he's a businessman. Very smart. All right, buddy. Thank you.

[Larry McReynolds]

Thank y'.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All.

[Larry McReynolds]

Thank y'.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Member.