Jay Hedgecock on Racing Dale Earnhardt in the 70s

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download

"Jay Hedgecock on Racing Dale Earnhardt in the 70s"

Date: February 11, 2026 | Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. | Guest: Jay Hedgecock

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Main Theme

This episode dives into the life and career of Jay Hedgecock, legendary chassis builder and racer with roots deep in the grassroots racing community. Through candid conversation, Dale Jr. explores Jay’s firsthand accounts of short-track battles in the 1970s and ‘80s—including Jay’s perspective on racing Dale Earnhardt Sr., building cars for NASCAR legends, the evolution of racing technology, and the current state of short track racing. The episode delivers vivid, behind-the-scenes stories that bridge NASCAR’s past and present, highlighting how passion and innovation continue to drive the sport.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Jay Hedgecock’s Early Days & Passion for Racing

• Building From Tradition: Jay shares memories of growing up in a racing family. His father raced and was part of Bill Blair Sr.'s team, helping drive a car to Daytona, win, and drive it home in the early 1950s.
  Memorable detail: “They took the headlights out, put different wheels and tires on it, won the race, then put it all back together and drove it back to High Point.” (05:25)

• Building His First Car: Jay’s first race car was fished from his uncle’s junkyard and rebuilt as a micro-midget at age 15 (06:59-08:00).
  They would haul cars to the track in the back of a '64 Chevy pickup—no trailers (08:28-08:36).

• Education and Career Fork: Jay aimed to learn all he could about cars, originally planning to attend the General Motors Institute. His ambitions always pointed toward racing (09:10).

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From Wrenching to Racing: Key Milestones

• Mentorship Under Tex Powell: Jay's break came from impressing renowned Tex Powell with his machine shop skills, eventually working full-time on cars for Benny Parsons among others (09:33-11:12).

• Racing & Building for Cliff Stewart: Jay’s first major driving opportunity was with Cliff Stewart’s team, racing both in the late model sportsman and Grand National series (13:09-16:00).
  He candidly admits: “My cars were way better than my driving was at the time.” (17:35)

• The Economics of Short-Track Racing: He explains how tire deals and tire costs ($300 a set back then) shaped the sport and how connections with tire reps influenced choices (18:29-19:20).

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Racing With and Against Dale Earnhardt Sr.

• Earnhardt’s Reputation Pre-Cup:
  Jay describes Earnhardt as relentless and fearless, racing for the thrill, not the money:

  “He was the one you didn’t want to your back bumper on the last lap because he was going to do whatever... he was not content to run second or third. I mean he was going to win... he raced because he liked to race.” —Jay Hedgecock (22:36)

• Notorious Short Track Battles:

  • At Caraway Speedway, Earnhardt drove Jay’s car in a brawl with Sam Ard, resulting in both spinning out after a heated last-lap duel, and a mid-pack driver winning—the classic underdog outcome (25:20-27:16).

  • Post-race, Earnhardt’s pragmatic attitude:

    “Hey, I’m sorry I tore your race car. But he started it. If I couldn’t win, he wasn’t going to win.” —Dale Sr. (27:23)

  • Butch Lindley Showdown: Hedgecock recalls a finish where Lindley and Earnhardt tangled across the line, resulting in Lindley's car on top of Earnhardt's. Both just shrugged it off as part of racing (29:56-31:09).

• Racing Culture:
  Jay reflects on how conflicts were handled by drivers, not fans, and mostly without drama, contrasting with today’s heightened confrontations (28:14-28:44).

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Building a Legacy in Chassis Construction

• From Driver to Sought-After Builder:
  Jay’s knack for innovation and firsthand experience made him a trusted chassis builder for top teams—including cup cars for Earnhardt, Richard Petty, and others (32:58-43:12).

• Chassis Building Philosophy:

  “Try to make things light as you can, but still make it structurally sound... always try to make a car safe.” (43:43)

• Testing for Petty Enterprises:
  Jay notes how being a driver helped him improve his builds—test driving Petty’s cars himself, especially during critical changes like the introduction of Goodyear radials at Richmond (44:09-44:19).

• Notable Car:
  Jay built the car Richard Petty flipped at Daytona:

  “When he spun it so fast... the blood vessels and all the blood went out of his eyes.” —Jay, explaining Petty’s temporary blindness after his crash (50:01)

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Life, Innovation, and the State of the Sport

• Transitioning to Short Track Focus:
  Despite success at higher levels, Jay preferred the camaraderie and hands-on involvement of short track racing:

  “I just like dealing with people, you know, short track racing stuff... grew up with it and that’s where I still go every week.” (59:15-59:52)

• Current Work:
  Jay continues building winning late model and modified chassis, working with drivers like Mason Diaz and partnering with Junior Motorsports (60:06-65:07).

• On Staying Competitive:
  Jay stresses the never-ending process of small improvements and how critical it is to experiment and adapt with new setups, tires, and components (73:22-75:03).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Racing Earnhardt Sr.:

  “He did whatever he had to do to get to the front... he was not content to run second or third.”
  Jay Hedgecock, 22:36

• On Short-Track Conflict:

  “If I couldn’t win, he wasn’t going to win.”
  Dale Earnhardt Sr., relayed by Jay, 27:23

• On Surviving a Terrible Crash:
  Jay recounts a serious concussion at IRP where he lost the ability to process numbers for weeks:

  “I looked at the numbers and they were... like Chinese. I’m like, this is not good.”
  Jay Hedgecock, 37:52

• On Chassis Building Fundamentals:

  “You’re not going to build a car and find a half a second. No days of that are over and done with. You got to little by little, creep up on it.”
  Jay Hedgecock, 75:03

• On Modern Short Track Racing Economics:

  “You got to have good people driving it and working on it. But... you got to win races. For me to stay in business, I tell somebody’s gotta win, somebody’s gotta wreck. That’s just bottom line.”
  Jay Hedgecock, 73:22

• On Cars Tour Growth:

  “The interest in Cars Tour... is probably 10 times what it was five years ago. Everybody’s watching.”
  Jay Hedgecock, 81:37

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Important Timelines & Timestamps

• Jay’s first car and midget racing: 06:59–08:00
• Start in professional racing/cliff Stewart hire: 13:09–16:00
• Reflecting on Earnhardt Sr.’s attitude: 22:36
• Jay’s wild Caraway short track story: 25:20–27:16
• Butch Lindley/Earnhardt finish: 29:56–31:09
• Shift to chassis building; philosophy: 32:58–43:43
• Building for Petty’s team & technological evolutions: 44:09–46:09
• Petty’s Daytona flip account: 49:23–50:09
• Current operations and future of Cars Tour: 60:06–69:00
• Discussion on sponsorship and series growth: 81:37–83:34
• Closing reflections on Jay's impact and advice: 85:13–end

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Episode Highlights & Takeaways

• A Living Piece of Racing History: Jay Hedgecock’s journey mirrors the rise of grassroots racing—one where raw talent, ingenuity, and pure determination could earn respect and opportunity.
• Dale Sr. Unfiltered: The episode shines a light on Dale Earnhardt Sr.’s early years, his racing ethic, and why he became such a formidable figure.
• Behind the Chassis Shop Doors: Insight into how the car-building process, relationships, and competition shaped modern stock car engineering.
• Current Challenges, Timeless Solutions: Jay and Dale Jr. discuss the cycle of rising costs, tire technology, team economics, and the importance of local sponsors—offering advice for sustaining and growing short-track racing.
• The Heartbeat of Local Racing: Jay’s enduring commitment to short tracks, mentorship, and innovation embodies the passion that keeps grassroots racing alive.

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Closing Statement

Jay Hedgecock’s story, told in his own words, is a testament to racing's relentless spirit—where hands get dirty, deals are made over handshake, and every Saturday night under the lights is another chapter in the sport’s living history. His humor, humility, and candor, paired with Dale Jr.’s passionate curiosity, make this a must-listen episode for anyone who loves racing’s roots as much as its future.

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Transcript

[Jay Hedgecock]

He was the one you didn't want to your back bumper on the last lap because he was going to do whatever and because he was. What I told somebody about your dad one time was he was not content to run second or third. I mean he was going to win the race if he could win the race. And he didn't race. I don't think for money. He raced because he liked to race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Jay Hedgecock]

Yes. I don't know if we've ever argued.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Jay Hedgecock]

Tj.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You don't need a cool vest for that race. What are you thinking? Get him, DJ Hell. Way to start the show. All right then, everybody. Stell Jr. Here for the Dale Jr. Download. Welcome to the Arby's Studio. Arby's has got a new meet in three box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's we had the meats and today we had the guest segment. We got a great guest coming in today that I'm really excited about. Maybe some of you heard this name but maybe some of you haven't. Jay Hedgecock is going to be a guest. Jay Hedgecock, he's a chassis builder. Builds a lot of cars in the shore track community. Builds chassis. We've bought chassis from him for, for quite a while now with our late model stock stuff. Josh Barry drove his cars and, and he has lots of cars in the Cars Tour and across the the Southeast. Builds building all sorts of stuff. But his story is, is pretty cool. Started racing, building his own cars back in the 70s. My dad drove his cars a couple times. It's short tracks. We'll talk about that. I've wanted to, I've seen the photos, have no idea about the stories. He was a witness to some of dad's shenanigans on the short track courses around the Southeast here when dad was trying to cut his teeth and get his break in nascar. Jay built cup cars for dad, Richard Petty, all sorts of people. So it's going to be a lot of fun learning about his story. This is a guy that loved to work on cars, loved building them and has made his life doing that, doing just that. And I've seen him. So I bought cars. I bought Hedgehog chassis for years. Didn't really know Jay. Couldn't have picked him out of a lineup. Over the last few years that I got into the Cars Tour ownership and been going to the track and competing in racing. I've started to meet Jay and see him at the track and I've wanted to know about this connection with dad and obviously his story as someone in the industry. So I'm excited about this. This is my personal choice to bring him in and hopefully you'll enjoy the conversation. Let's bring him in the room. Jay Hedgecock, I'm excited about this. I have gotten to. But I don't know you well as I'd like. But I know who you are and I know your name and I've known your name for a long time because you built some really great race cars for my race team at Junior Motorsports and I recognized your name from some connections to my dad back in the day. Made me want to learn more about you. So thanks for coming out today.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, good. I'm glad to be here.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So Jay Hedgecock has been a chassis builder for how many years now?

[Jay Hedgecock]

I built my first race car 55 years ago.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I was 15 years old.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Your dad raced or was involved in racing and drove, I guess, the winning car, one of the winning cars in a feature to the. To the Daytona beach course and. And then drove it back home. Tell me that story.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, my dad used to hang around with Bill Blair. Bill Blair Sr. And this was before he got married and had children, stuff. But the year that he won the Daytona 500 is in 1953. And my father drove the Oldsmobile from High Point to Daytona and then they got it prepped for the race. They changed it, took the headlights out of it and took the exhaust off of it and put different wheels and tires on it and they won the race. And then they put it all back together and drove it back to High Point.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's wild.

[Jay Hedgecock]

The next day, I mean, wow.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Things are quite different back then. So you, you're. Was your dad your earliest memories, I suppose, of. Of your childhood? Your dad was involved in racing back then?

[Jay Hedgecock]

He knew a lot of people. There was a lot of modified racing around High Point, Winston Salem and stuff. And there was some guys over in High Point, Ken Rush, Harold Rush and Paul Walton. And they had repair shops all within 10ft of each other in a little parking lot and they all had modified cars. And my dad would take me over and you know, the, the one thing I remember when I was a kid, we got home one night and I asked my dad, I said, what was that in that 55 gallon barrel sitting in the shop? Had them in glass bottles in it. And it turned out it was a. Beer bottles.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And that was one thing I remember. They all, back then they ran coops and coaches and fuel injection and stuff. And it was cool. I mean, they used to let me set in while dating them. Piddled.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And so you wanted to build your own car and you.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I always wanted to build my own cars. And then I started racing midgets when I was 15 years old.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Micro midget.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Micro midgets, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where at?

[Jay Hedgecock]

There was a place at Union Cross Speedway between Winston and High Point. I raced there and then I'd race somebody in Concord.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And you built this car yourself?

[Jay Hedgecock]

The very first one I had, I got it out of my uncle's junkyard. My dad and my uncle built it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How'd they build it? What do you pull out of the junkyard to build one of the things?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, back then they hand built it in their shop, but it was all like a round tubing and made a sheet metal body and they raced it around different people drove it. Max barrier that used to race, that recently passed away. He drove it and Ken Rush drove it. And they quit racing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They quit racing it. Went to the junkyard.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Went to the junkyard and I found it in there in the bulldozer. Junkyard, I call it, and drug it out and I got it ready, and then we. We raised it and eventually I built another one a couple of years later. That was from the ground up. I built.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And so how long did you do that before you. What was the next step?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, I raced those till I was probably from 15 till I was 19. And then when I was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What kind of racetracks are you competing on?

[Jay Hedgecock]

It was like 10th and 8th of a mile, kind of like Millbridge dirt. There was one in Concord. It was asphalt.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I got you.

[Jay Hedgecock]

It would go there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And your dad's helping you, taking you?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, they would go with me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What were y' all towing?

[Jay Hedgecock]

We. We didn't tow nothing. We put it in the back of the pickup truck.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I had a 64 Chevrolet pickup truck my dad bought, brand new. I still have it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And we would put it in the back of the truck and go to the racetrack and get a couple people help unload it, and so it was good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you turn. You get up to around 19. You were going to Davidson College.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, Davidson County Community College.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You were enrolled in the General Motors Institute.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That's where I was going to transfer to that. I was going to take two years of college reparatory classes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was your. What was your ambition? Where, if in that moment, you know, were you thinking about going into automotive service repairs? What was it?

[Jay Hedgecock]

It's just racing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I thought you were going to learn all that and then still go race.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You got a job with texpal, Right. Tell me who texpal is.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Texpal is one of the smartest people I've ever met. You know, he. He's responsible for me knowing a lot, for folks listening.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

If. If you're in the industry, you hear texpal's name a lot over the years. So, yeah, just try to help us understand the individual he was.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, he was originally, obviously, from Texas, and he came up here and he had a shop in Asheboro. And I happened to be down there with a friend picking up some parts one day, and I'd been working after school at a sheet metal shop, I mean, but a machine shop. And they taught you a lot of stuff about drill sharpening, drill bits and stuff. Like that. And when I got there, Tex was trying to drill a hole in something. It was making a terrible noise and squealing. And I just told him, I said, I can sharpen that for you if you want me to. And so I sharpen it for him. And then he drilled right through it. And he said, can you sharpen some more before you leave? And so I did. And then he said, what else can you do? I said, well, I can run your lathe and your mill. And he said, well, you want a job? I said, well, I'm in school right now. And so then kind of worked around to where I worked some, and then I just quit school and worked there full time. And that's when we was building Benny Parsons cars that L.G. deWitt owned.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really? Yes, they were in there.

[Jay Hedgecock]

They were in there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So what were y' all doing to them?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, we put clips on them, whatever they needed, you know, help.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What. What other business was he doing in that shop?

[Jay Hedgecock]

He was starting the transmission and rear end business. That's what he asked. What he's famous for.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Famous for?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, yeah. And he. He was doing that on the. In conjunction with building race cars to repair and race cars and stuff. But the. The big deal was just looking after LG stuff, you know, and then we did some stuff for some different people. You know, there was a couple people that we took Daytona and stuff that they. They ran. So.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, you take care. Build the cars or whatever and take them to Daytona.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

For speed weeks and stuff. The. Yeah, Tex Pal would become synonymous with transmissions, rear and gears. And I mean, if you raced cup in the 80s, you had his rear ends, you had his trans. Everybody ran his stuff. He was the guy. So you worked there for a while. That must have been quite helpful to be able to be under the tutelage of not only texpal, but all the other individuals. Who else was working there? Any other recognizable names?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, Steve Mill worked there. Oh, yeah, he left and I was still there. And he went on to work at the Petties and Jack Roush and stuff. But a lot of the guys that worked down there. There wasn't a lot of us that worked there. There was only two or three at a time. And there was one guy, we called him Zoomer. And he worked in this racing since he left the Tex. And Tex closed down, but he's recently passed away. But they were just. There's a lot of. A lot of people would come in and out. You would meet and stuff. Yeah, you know, Waddell Wilson used to Come up there because he built the motors for LG back then.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. See him quite a bit. The. You got hired to drive for Cliff Stewart, Right? Cliff owned a late model Sportsman car.

[Jay Hedgecock]

He owned late model Sportsman and Cup cars. Grand national cars, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So Sportsman, I guess this is in. You were 18?

[Jay Hedgecock]

I was like 20 years old.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay. And this would have been right around 70.

[Jay Hedgecock]

77.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

77. So who drove his cup car back then? I know eventually, like, he'd get the Gatorade deal in 80. 80 or something. He won or something. But he had Ricky Rudd. I think Rusty Ross drove his car for a year or so with the Algae guard sponsorship. But who was driving his cup cars back then?

[Jay Hedgecock]

At the time, Darrell Bryant was driving them. I got you Darryl Bryant. He drove them. They were number 50 cars, and they had three or four cup cars and two or three sportsman cars. And his son was friend of mine. We were within a couple years of being the same age and lived in a neighborhood.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And what's his name?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Howard Stewart.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jay Hedgecock]

He owned Stewart Components, where they make water pumps, fuel pumps, and stuff like that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The Stewart logo that was on race cars forever, right? Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And so he come to my shop one night, and I was. I was building a modified car. I want to race a modified. And Waddell sold me a 427 that they run the big blocks back then. And I was building a modified car, and Howard showed up one night and he said. He said, you know, daddy's got in race cars. And I said, yeah. He said, you want to drive them? And I said, yeah, sure, I'll drive him. He said, I'm serious. I said. He said, I'm gonna bring one over tomorrow. Then if you want to race. I said, we're gonna race. He said, we'll go to Caraway. I said, when? He said, this weekend, holy crap. Like, oh, God. You know. So he showed up with a 69 Chevelle, and we messed with it and got it. I got where I get the seat in there fitted and all. And back then, it was kind of like when your dad first started. He had a Mustang seat, put sides on it, and that's what was in the car at the time. And so we raced that car the rest of the year. In the very last race, we run the thing, it got total loss at Franklin County. And so then we start building. It was a late afternoon race, and it was, you know, sun going down, and we were running, and. And nobody could see good enough to see there was a correspond in the corner. And I Went flying in the corner and I locked the brakes up and slid and I just slid up against him and I was getting ready to put in reverse. And about that time, Tommy Houston, he didn't see that. He couldn't see for the sun and he hit me wide open in the back, man. And so that was. That was all that, little fellow.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was the racing? What was the racing at the local tracks? Like Caraway and so forth, like, comparable to today. It was.

[Jay Hedgecock]

It was a lot. There was a lot. There's so much people are able to watch TV that you. It's harder to get full crowds like you did back then. Back then we would have five, six, seven thousand people a night, Caraway in places and. But it was. It was. The bracing was kind of different back then that he was more, I call gentleman. Like, you know, there wasn't a lot of bump and runs. You know, if it was a bump and run, it usually got taken care of the next corner.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, I mean, that's what your dad was involved in. One of them. In one of my cars one night.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

It was just a lot different. You know, everybody. Nobody was really making a living. I made a living doing it. They actually I was fortunate enough. I got paid a salary in a percentage when I was 21 years old.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was it you remember?

[Jay Hedgecock]

They give me 500 a week to work on them and then I got 40% of what you won.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that's pretty good.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

500 a week back then. Incredible, right? What would you attribute in your life or career that got you that opportunity?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Just Howard Nam, you know, just. I mean, text taught me so much that I knew what I was doing. Working on race cars at a young age.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And it would.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Were you working on their cup cars as well, prepping all that stuff and helping them with everything?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. At Texas Place.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, when you went to Stewart's Cliffs, when you went over there to drive for him, were you helping him? Were you driving for him? Were you working there? Were you.

[Jay Hedgecock]

They brought everything to my shop.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Everything.

[Jay Hedgecock]

We just took the sportsman cars. We didn't bring the cup cars. We just brought sportsman cars. And then we worked on my shop.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you have. Was there. Was it just you driving his cars or some other dudes driving the only.

[Jay Hedgecock]

By that drove it besides me when I was there with a. Now I drove mall there and then Morgan Shepard took over and then the next car that I drove for a guy out of Lexington, I built two cars. And your dad drove one.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And then David Pearson drove The other ones? Some. Yeah, we did do special events.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How come you. How come. I guess what happened with Cliff, where Morgan come along, you know, he just.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Want him changing other guards, I guess you'd say. My, that the problem we had was that my cars were way better than my driving was at the time. I was, you know, a year into driving a stock car and all I knew was you got to run as fast as you can every lap. It looked good for three quarters of the race and then, you know, unless you could get tires. You know. Back then. Back then we could change tires whenever you wanted to.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And unless you had a good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How come guys. So today we run, you know, the cars tour and late model stocks and you build a lot of chassis that compete in our series. You know, we run a four tire race. You start the race running 25 laps on the same set back in the 70s and you know, when Sam Ard and Bush Lindley and those guys were racing every single week up and down, you know, the east coast. How are they able afford doing that?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, back then tires were $300 a set.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, but that's, I mean the money that was, it was still expensive for that time frame.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Still expensive, but I mean.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And there were some guys had tire deals.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, we had, we had a partial tire deal, I call it. You know, I mean we, we would. I don't know the whole extent to it, but.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And then there were t. There were multiple different manufacturers and Firestone was really good for a while. If you didn't have Firestones, you weren't going to be able to win. Yeah, things like that.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Firestones were the, the tire to run it at Fayetteville. Oh, Fayetteville was hard on tires. And that was when you went to Fayetteville. You had to have Firestones, you know, went to good years when you. Caraway, hickory, places like that, you know, you was on, on the good years. But I was, I was friends with Tom Parnell, who was a Goodyear dealer.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And he. And so I pretty much stuck to the good years.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean, I just couldn't, you know, I couldn't kind of. He was too nice to us. You know, if they got a new tire out, they wanted somebody to try it because they didn't, they didn't present nothing to no officials. They just said, hey, here's tire, here's tires.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Go run it.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And sometimes they, you know, don't stack them all four high.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Why?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Because they might be two inches higher than their normal.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They're wider. That's hilarious. So you ran with Stewart from 77 through 81. You had a seventh at the Cardinal 500 Martinsville in 77. You had strong finishes of fourth at the 500, the Cardinal 579 and the Dogwood 500 in 81. Track championships at Caraway in 79 and 80. You ran a grand American race at Charlotte in 79.

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, well.

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[Jay Hedgecock]

I knew him from just racing. When I started racing he'd bring his car around. Gary Hargett's car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

He drove that around and I would see him then and talk to him some, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And what was the opinion now no bull straight up as you can tell me the truth. What was the general opinion of him let's you know in 77, 78 when he was carrying his short track car around right before he got up into the cup deal.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean he was the one you didn't want to back bumper on the last lap because he was going to do whatever and because he was what I told somebody about your dad one time was when he drove my car and I know he was getting 5, $10,000 come race it. And he didn't have to take a chance. But he was not content to run second or third. I mean he was going to win the race if he could win the race. And I. He didn't race I don't think for money. He raced cause he liked to race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And that's. And that's the way I mean he was. I mean he did whatever he had to do to get to the front. You know. I mean he was driving my car at Martinsville one time and I was running and I qualified in front of him. Well he was back then they had restart when you went into turn three is every man for himself leader could go would you single file so you would jump the outside whatever you want to do. And one time I don't know if you know Ronnie Revis who was being our engines anyway he was my spotter and caution come out and he said said Dale's making about five spots per restart on the outside before they come off a turn four. And he says so just be watch he's about six cars back. I said he said once you jump beside this guy in front of you and see if you can pick up some spots. So I did it when they started in three, I jumped outside and about time we start up off the corner. Ronnie said outside, outside three wide. The guy was in my door pushing me. And then your dad wounds up hitting the wall, comes off the wall, messes up a rim, had to make a pit stop and come up at the race. So we come over and he said. I said I tried. I said I didn't think he was going to get that far up in that short a period of time. And I didn't mean to get you in the wall. And he said hey he said, I'd have moved you in the wall, too, if you'd have been on in the middle.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So he ends up driving your car. I know. I've seen pictures of this, you know, your car at Martinsville with dad's name on it. And then there's a picture of him at Caraway. Is that the only two times that he drove your car?

[Jay Hedgecock]

That's the only two times he drove it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was 81.

[Jay Hedgecock]

No, that was. That was 1979, when he took over Austerlin.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really? 79. He did that?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Had a yellow helmet?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep, yep. So he's got quite the reputation, having raced in through 70, I guess, you know, 76, 77, 78. Running all the short track races. I got. I got so many pictures of him running his Nova all around, chasing y'. All. And like, how does the conversation start for him to come drive your car, you know? Did you call him? Did he call you?

[Jay Hedgecock]

No, actually, the track promoter, Russell Hackett, he called us and said, hey, he said, I'd like to bring Dale down here and let him drive your car, your second car, if y', all, you know, fine with it. But I didn't own them. I just built them, got paid. And so they called the owner, Bob Sweat, and said, hey, you know, work out a deal, you know, and I'm sure, you know, five, $10,000 drive it. And, you know, the. The night he drove it to Caraway, I mean, it was. It was a big race, you know, 200 laps, you know, and that night there, I had to raise one. I was about half a straightaway ahead, and him and Sam were going at it like tooth and nail. People were what they wouldn't watch nothing, but them, too. And so it come down about five or six laps to go. And I spotter says, you got about half a straightaway. Just be careful. And so I run another lap and come around. I get the back straightaway gate and I look up to see where they're at. And when I look back down, all I see is 3 foot wide strip of oil and water. A guy blew a motor going into three. No caution lights, no nothing, while I let go of the gas, thinking, please, just let me do it. Well, it just is like it sucked into the line of the oil, and I hit him head on. Then the caution comes out. And so they have a restart with four to go, and him and Sam are going at it. I just watched a minute of it. I was like, this is not going to end well because one of them moved one, one in the Next one, The other one next to him. So come down the white flag, and your dad's leading, goes into one. Sam moves him up the hill. They go down the back straightaway, and your dad makes a bonsai move to move him. They both kind of spin, and then your dad tries to go the outside, and Sam knocks it out of gear, clutches it, and comes back up and kill it him. The guy running 10th wins the race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, crap.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And so when the race is over with, I mean, there was probably five, six, seven thousand people there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And there's pictures of people standing up, and I'm talking to some of them. They said, you know, the flagman come down there about that time, and I was talking to him, and he said, I'm sorry about the. No caution. But he said, I watched them. I didn't watch you. He said it was. We knew it was going to be any moment, they were going to be into it, and we were watching. You never saw Hensley blow a motor. And I said, well, I understand. And there's a picture of my shop, your dad sitting on the back of the trailer with me, and he. He's got him a solo cup, and he's like. And he's telling me, he said, hey, I'm sorry I tore your race car. But he started it. He said, if he couldn't. If I couldn't win, he wasn't going to win.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And I was like, was Sam the kind of guy to get upset?

[Jay Hedgecock]

No. I mean, he was in the car. He was, you know, mad, I'm sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

But that was it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There wasn't no conversation. No. You think, you know, hearing stories about that and the way people act today, anytime anybody has a confrontational racetrack, you'd think, in my mind, when I hear this story, right. Of dad and Sam going at it tooth and nail, and then eventually dad ends up spinning them both out. You think there would have been a crowd in the infield and a lot of insults and angry.

[Jay Hedgecock]

No, I mean, the fans were more upset.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I'm sure. Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

But, you know, because there was. There was more Dale Earnhardt fans there than the War Sam. Art fans.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, I mean, and it was so, you know, you just taken. You listen to them. But I mean, as far as the drivers go, you know, it wasn't like people were swinging and, you know, it was just.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What kind of damage was done to the car? Was it all body damage?

[Jay Hedgecock]

His car was all, you know, cosmetic lower stuff. My car had that front clip.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You mentioned being there at Caraway during another race where dad and Butch Lindley got into it. Marty works here as crew chief on one of the cars, and we talk about our dads all the time. Butch Lindley was considered and still considered today as one of the greatest short track racers in NASCAR history. There's a big push for Butch to try to get himself into the hall of fame. He's won over 500 races. The majority of those were NASCAR sanctioned events on the short tracks and tons of track championship. You're a witness to his career. You'd agree with how amazing bush Lindley was. Him and dad apparently had a hell of a battle. I've heard, like, little brief, like, comments about this, but not from anyone who was there.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, I was racing then. I was probably 16, 17 years old. And so it come down as another deal. You know, it was a big race. You know, I think it's 200 lapper and everybody had been putting on tires and it come down to them, too. And I mean, Butch was leading and your dad got underneath him right there to end the race. And they run side by side. They come off to get the checkered flag. And your dad was trying to get him to lift and squeezed him. And Butch, he didn't lift. And so he hit the wall, climbed the wall. And when he comes down, he's on top of your dad's car on the roof.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Damn.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I mean, when they come out of start finish line, sparks are flying. And I mean, there's people. I have pictures of it somewhere. I've tried to find them, but a lot of time people borrow pictures, but when they crossed the line, like your dad's hood was about 6 inches in front of Butch's hood. And when they stopped, they're still hooked together. It took them, you know, two wreckers and, you know, 30 minutes to get them untangled. And they get out, you know, and, you know, they're okay. Yeah, no big deal. No big deal. We raced and, you know, you won.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

After your deal with Cliff champion, you went and started running more modifieds, got into modified racing. What was your path?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, I took and I drove a few people's sportsman cars, and then they turned into bush series cars. And then I was at orange county for a race one night. There was a NASCAR tour race there, and I wasn't going to drive. I took my helmet and stuff just in case. And there was a late model race and a bush race there, and just in case somebody wanted it. Well, nobody said anything on Friday, so we went out partying on Friday. Night. Saturday morning, I get there to the racetrack at Orange county, and I feel bad. Bad. The guy comes up to me. He said, hey, my driver didn't show up. You wanna drive my modified car? And I said, I guess. I don't know. And he said, come on, get in it. So I went over and went to the bathroom first and made sure I wasn't gonna throw up in the car. And so get in the thing and run a few laps. And the guy said, well, we're. We're fast. He said, you want to race it? I said, yeah, man, I will. It was a like 40 or 50 some cars that we qualified fourth with the thing and then got. About five of us got wrecked on about lap three. And he didn't have. He had a little fiberglass seat in there that was not made for me. Broke four or five reels when they hit, like so. Then. Then I started driving his car some. And then I'll drive other people's cars too, but I. I always like to modify cars. What are you doing for a living now or then? I was building cars for other people.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So you had started building chassis and had gotten into a pattern of. Of being or, you know, having regular customers.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What kind of cars were you building?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Mainly late mall sportsman cars. You know, I built some Phil Parsons, different people, you know, just whoever come in there would want one.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What, what, you had a jig and built any car. You. Anytime anybody wanted a car, you built one.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, because I. I built two jigs whenever I was building the Howard Stewart's cars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And then the eight cars that I drove. How big was your shop at the time? It was a. It was just a Quantum hut. Like 60 foot long by 25 foot wide.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I had my jigs where I could bolt wheels on them and take them outside. Because I kept two cars in there and I had two jigs and I would take them, work on them, roll them out and stuff. And then I built pictures.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All this.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, man, I bet it's badass.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And now the, the, the. The big. The funniest thing is back. I know you know Jerry Kennan.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Okay. Jerry worked for me as crew chief, me for a while. And we came out with the blue 8 car. And we went to Caraway with a thing and we. We broke the track record the first time. So then back then, they want. They like to. They like to bet on things. And on my walls of my quantities still there, they took chalk and wrote, we're going. Everybody put $5 in a pot and bet and see how fast you can run this week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I actually broke track record three weeks in a row. And they put a check mark beside the name. Who won the money?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And then that was, you know, that's all still there.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. Still.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. What's in that building now?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Just a lot of storage stuff. Storage stuff.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Any old parts and pieces and things from the history.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, I've got. I still got a lot of stuff in the other building.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Oh, man, I bet it's cool to walk through there.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you're building chassis and just kind of, you know, that's. That's fun in your. That's how you're making a living, is building cars for people. And you're still going to the racetrack and driving. You would end up finishing third at the track championship in 83. You had 10 wins at Orange County Speedway. You ran the World Series of asphalt in New Smyrna and had a win there, Although as recent as 1990, you won a 150 lapper in 86 at Wilkesboro in all in modified stuff. Then you had a serious crash at IRP in 88. What happened there?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, we went up there for a NASCAR tour race, and we'd been running there, and you know how it is. Our rp, you've raced there for. You stay up top, run momentum. Deal.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And we come about halfway through the race, and the guy got into me coming off two, and it kind of. I turned it a little sideways, and when I went to correct it, he hit me again and just turned it right and I caught the gate.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep. Right in the middle of the back stretch.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. And then when it did, it just like shot the car around. And I'm going down the back straightaway backwards. And I can see I'm going, go for the wall. And the last thing I remember was hook, hooking my arm around the head, the seat side rest for my shoulder on my ribs. And, you know, you didn't have a left side headrest back then. And I just remember thinking, I need to stop from getting into the wall here on my head. And it hit so hard that it shot the rear and out the right side of the car, and my head went out the window and hit the concrete.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It did.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. And. And it was. I was unconscious for, you know, several hours off and on. You know, I never woke up till they got me to the hospital. Kenny Schrader come to see me because they. He told some of me, he said, I thought, he's dead. You know, he was behind us, and he come to see, make sure I was all right. And they told him he'll be all right. I got a pretty bad concussion from the recussion of the. The brain slamming back to the right side of my head. When they got ready to leave the next day, the, the. I remember that was sitting there and the. My buddies were going to carry me back. They didn't want me flying an airplane with concussion. And I remember one of the doctors said, now you can't let him drive. And one of the boys said, well, if he could drive, we wouldn't be here. The doctor told me, he said, look, he said, you damage the part of your brain that controls numbers. And he said, numbers are going to be a problem. And it may last a. A week, a day, a month or a year. May never come back. And so I didn't.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was the. What do you recall about those type of symptoms?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Like you had severe headaches, you know, on the right side, you know, just anytime, if you even tried drinking a mouthful of alcohol, a glass of wine or anything, it hurts so bad you couldn't stand it. And. But I remember I got home next day, the phone bill come in the mail, and I was looking at it and I was like, you know, well, I remember paying the bill, but they crossed in the mail, so I needed to subtract the old from the new statement. And I looked at the numbers and they were. Looked like Chinese. I'm like, this is not good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And what you do for a living is in numbers.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And it was. It was about two weeks later, I was. Went to the restaurant, eat breakfast. I picked up a newspaper and I was reading it and it got to some numbers and I recognized them. And I got the waitress's notepad and I wrote some numbers down and I added them up. And I asked the guy beside me, I said, is that right? And he said, holy, yeah. Why? I said, I. Just checking, just make sure. And it just came back.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Came back like a light? Yeah. I've learned the way I kind of feel about things like that in my own experiences, to describe it to somebody when you have a head injury, it's like. It's like clipping some wires or some circuits and those circuits have to fuse back together. And it is almost in a lot of cases, like a light switch. Like you'll have these symptoms. They'll be. They'll be what they are. They don't like, ease away. They just are there all the time. And then you wake up one day and it's better.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That's exactly the way this was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And not everybody's experience is like that. But that's, that's one of the, that's one of the ways that can, can be experienced when you're, when you're recovering from head injuries. Was that the only head injury that you remember having from racing? I'm sure you had plenty.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I've had a couple dinged up, got knocked out. You know, we crashed at Concord one night coming off corner, turned my head on into all them. I remember when I come to, couldn't pick my head up, couldn't move my arms and I could see light and people yelling and running around and they're looking at me, yelling at me and I could move my eyes but nothing else would move. And I thought I'm paralyzed. And then I remember the roof come off of it and they're getting a backboard down me and then all of a sudden you like tingling all through your extremities and then you can start moving your fingers again. It just the shock. What I guess the doctor said Crazy. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Damn.

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Jay Hedgecock]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You built some cars in the in the Busch series. We started building some cup chassis. How did that process happen? Late model Sportsman car obviously changed over the course of a few years. And how do you get opportunities, I suppose, to start building cars on the cup level?

[Jay Hedgecock]

People just come see you? I mean they know me from racing. When the petties come to see me, they want me to build cars for him. The 88, 89.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Why did they want to start using your business?

[Jay Hedgecock]

They just wanted something different. And they had a Larry Rathgab, I don't know if you know the name Larry Grass. He was an engineer with Chrysler. He's in one and did the kit cars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jay Hedgecock]

They hired him and they designed a car and worked with me and we, that's what we built in 88 and 89 for Richard.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And so they, you know, were, what was your, you know, there's some different, I don't know. I've, there's been different chassis builders over the years and all of them sort of come out with the, the latest and greatest idea. Right. And so what are some of the things, I suppose that you felt like that you helped usher in to the chassis builder world or what were some of the things that maybe you started doing earlier than other people that might have, you know, kind of set yourself apart?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, I mean, we, we text told me this, you know, try to make things light as you can, but still make it structurally sound. And that's, that's one thing we've always tried to make a car safe, you know, I mean, try to. Don't use no light roll bars and stuff like that. And. And we just, we wound up being able to build them and drive them helps because, like, when I built Richard Petty's cars, I would test them for him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. So I got. Luckily when they built Richmond, the new configuration, I got to do the test and tire test for the Goodyear radials.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Damn.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That was the first time they got tested. And it just helps whenever you, you know, I can cut a car up and on Saturday go back to the racetrack and drive it and say, that's better, that's worse.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And that's kind of. I think that helped a lot, but me being able to drive some that I could tell if whether it's better or worse myself.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What are some of the things that a chassis builder has to be always kind of aware of? I mean, what, you know, what are the things that you guys are. If it feels like where we are today, like there's no more things to learn. Right. I know that's not really true because we're always. Everything's always obsolete. What was good last year, you know, isn't good enough this year. Everybody tweaks and twists things, I imagine back in the 80s and up through the late 80s, you know, there was still a ton to be learned and improved on these chassis, really. The front clip, rear clip, trailing arm system, the front points, all that stuff from back then, it's very similar to what we're still using today.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Very, very close.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Very close. But back then, you know, I know that we were getting different chassis from different cars. You know, in the late model world, we were doing, you know, we'd get a Townsend car or we'd get a Boltenheimer car, and the front clips would be quite different, you know, and. And so there were a lot of different theories, I suppose. You know, it's kind of what, you know, what was it like, you know, going. Going back and being a part of the industry back then, being able to be creative, being able to have. Being able to know. There's like a lot here that you could probably discover, right. Cutting cars apart, running Them driving them, changing them fixing them, finding little things. How fun was that to be part of that creative process?

[Jay Hedgecock]

That was, that was a lot of fun. That was like whenever we tested stuff, you know, we, I could always tell good or bad. And the big thing we played with back then is like now we try spindles. You know, back then when we ran the, the rear steer cars. I don't think you ever ran a proper rear steer car. Yeah, you know that would.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I had. Kelly had a rear steer Boltenheimer late model that I drove a little bit that we got from Robert Elliott. That's the only car I ever drove that was a rear steer.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right. And then we, you know, we kind of progressed away from the rear steer stuff to the Chevelle type suspension because that's basically what everything was based off of back then was a 64 Chevelle. You know, everybody just kind of took one of those and then jigged off of that and you made your own points and stuff. And then for a while, you know, it became the craze was a drop snout.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We did that in the Bushieries in the late 90s, you know, early 2000. We were still running drops down cars. Why was. And that would come and go.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But you know, everybody have an inch and a half drop and then everybody go back to standard and then everybody go back to drops again. Why was. Why?

[Jay Hedgecock]

I think a lot of that is monkey see, monkey do. Yeah, but I mean somebody the tires.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Change the tire may determine some.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I think a lot of it determined by the tire. Yeah, because I mean like the tire we ran this past weekend at Florence is different than we ran last year.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, it reacts different. And it just setups from last year that we led with didn't work. You know, this year. And it's same way with cup everything back then they changed the tire. You know, then drop snout's the way to go, you know. And some drivers like the drop snout car, I mean regardless of the tire.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, they just, they felt more comfortable with that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, we predominantly run the drop snout car at all the short track stuff. I don't know that we were really taking drop snouts to speedway speedways. But like Charlotte even. But once you drove one and you're. And you got it in your mind that that thing cut the corner better, you were convinced.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, and it took a lot for you to. To believe anything. Believe otherwise. You know, it have to be a significant. You know, you'd be at a test somewhere with a standard and A drop. And that standard would have to do some pretty damn good stuff to convince you otherwise.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That the drop wasn't the way to go. That was when we had the bush cars back in the 89 or the 98, 99 season. The redheaded stepchild and all that stuff. The red chassis, those are our drops down cars and felt. And everybody was buying them because we were just doing so well with them. But you ended up built. You talked about building cars for Richard Petty. You were the one that built the chassis for the car that flipped down the front straightaway at Daytona. Not the way you want to see that go, but you talk about building safe race cars. That was a hell of a wreck. And Richard's, you know, toward the back end of his career at that point, you know, those wrecks are harder to, you know, harder to walk out of in his case. And you had to be pretty happy with how that thing held up considering all the things that went through during that crash.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. Cause I was standing on pit road, you know, and when it happened right in front of us, I'm like, oh, no, this is bad. You know. And he, when he finally stopped, you know, it. The flipping part wasn't so bad, but when he got hit in the left front and spun him so fast, where Dale Inman's on the radio going, you know, Dale, Richard, you all right? You all right? You're right. Never said a word. Never said a word. Richard, you all right? You all right? Finally, he finally come on radio and he said, yeah, I'm all right, I'm all right, but I can't see nothing. He said, my eyes aren't working. And when he. The doctor said when he spun it so fast that the blood vessels and all the blood went out of his eyes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Jesus.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And he couldn't see. And then, you know, he was. He was. The biggest problem he had was his knees and stuff were banged up so bad.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Sure.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And so I was going relief drive for him at Richmond. Really the next race, they had me up there standby. And we was in the trailer the morning of the race and he said, you going? You going to be all right? I said, yeah, I'll be all right. He said, just get your suit on when this race starts. He said, if I feel bad, we'll just make. Stop whatever we do, lose lap, whatever, do it. And the doctor come in there and they started taking fluid out of his knees. And I'm like, there's no way he's gonna run this race and shoot about first cops and Come out, we run good. And he said, I'm gonna be fine. He said, yeah, I ain't gonna. I ain't gonna get out. Yeah. So I just went. Took the driving suit off and watched, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But you ran. You know, you talk about being a standby for him. You had raced in the Cup Series a handful of times, but not many. You raced. Your. Your debut was at North Wilkesboro in 93. You'd run a two starts in 94 at Wilkesboro, Martinsville, all short tracks. You had a bad crash at Pocono, had an engine from Ernie Elliott. Running good in practice, made an adjustment and got. Got yourself turned around backwards, broke your ankle.

[Jay Hedgecock]

We rented a racetrack back when you could rent the racetrack. We were by ourselves up there that day. Oh, and time wise, I was slow. But we had a motor in there that Ernie had given me to test with. And he said, it's just. It'll get you around the racetrack. And so we kept working on it, working on it, and really didn't run fast. And I called Terry Labonte. I said, where do I need to lift? Going into one. And he said, well, you need to lift about, you know, number five or something on the board, you know, there. He said, where you live? And I said, one. He said, you don't have no motor, you know. He said, if it drives good, you'll be fine. So we come back and Ernie sent us a new motor, and we got the racetrack. Ernie said, this thing is better than bills, I'm telling you. He said, it's going to be better than Bills. So we were top 10 fastest first practice. I had a guy, Dean Johnson, was crew chief men, he come over and this one spoiler at a spoiler height rule. But you could put it whatever you want to angle with. He said, you can you run faster than that on another Mach run? Yeah, I guess so. He said, I'm going to take some spoiler out of it. Wrong thing to do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I get into one down there. Just before I go to third gear, it turns around backwards and I hit the water driver's door.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Golly.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And it ricochets off the wall and comes back down. And I remember coming back down into four cars on a mock run. And he comes by my nose at 175 mile an hour. Miss me as I'm sliding backwards. And the spotters on the radio yelling, are you all right? Are you all right? And I'm still sliding. And finally, Ernie Ellet, he's. He's over in the garage area. I heard Him? Yeah, with the boy. With them talking to me. When he said, he still. He said, not through wrecking. Leave him alone.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you broke your ankle there?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, yeah, I got. The adrenaline's going. You don't realize you hurt, you know?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Get out and step and your leg folds up. And then. Then my knee was dislocated for it. Steering column. And so this one. Them deals, you know, you kind of.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You ran. That was. Wonder what year that was. What year was that?

[Jay Hedgecock]

That was 94, I think.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You ran the All Star Open in 95 in a ride sponsored by Diamond Rio.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How did that come about?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, Mr. Wilson owned the cars. He was Vice President R.J. reynolds, and he had.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Who took care of the cars?

[Jay Hedgecock]

We kept them at our shop.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Damn.

[Jay Hedgecock]

All right. And then we had been messing with some people, the Blue Rhino people, the propane people. Yeah, they were just starting and they want to be on the car. And they knew some people in the music industry, and so they come by the shop one night, Mr. Wilson did, and he said, I think we got us a sponsor. He said, you know about Diamond Rio. And I said, trucks. And he said, no, he said country music. So he said, go get some CDs and listen to him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And so they're going to sponsors. And so it was. It was a good. It was a good deal. They were nice. Really nice. Yeah, we went to several shows with them and. But it was. I got in the middle of a divorce and the racing was, you know, racing with two young children. You know, it's kind of. They had people come in to buy into the team and they wanted to change, you know, because we went to. Went to Richmond and I missed a race by 2000 of a second, you know, and then so they just kind of like went the other direction. Yeah, I was upset, but you can't blame them. You know, it's money and it's a sport.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was the end of your. Your career on the, you know, in terms of cup racing and bush starts, you know, eventually you would build cup cars for dad. The. The car that dad wrecked Terry with at Bristol was your race car, your chassis. At the time. Kevin Hamlin was the crew chief on the car. They had their own chassis shop. But they came over to you looking for something different.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, they. They were buying cars from Hopkins then.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, and so then Kevin, them come into the shop and wanted. They decided they wanted to try something different.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What were you going to do that's different?

[Jay Hedgecock]

I don't know. It was just my Cars were a little bit. Going to be a little bit lighter.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Like at the time I had bought a die that the Plymouth tube company that makes roll bar pipe and they made us a. A die that I bought and they would run a meal run of my roll bar tubing. It was 90,000ths plus or minus a half where Everybody else was 95,000ths period. And, and I got to choose my. The carbon rating I wanted, the type of tensile strength I wanted and it made a difference.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And so we built. They come over and wanted to cut. They said build us two cars but don't tell nobody. Yeah, don't tell nobody who they're for. And I got them done. They come, picked them up and that one evening after work and took them to RCR and the next morning I don't think they lucky they still have the job.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Jay Hedgecock]

It didn't go over well.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It didn't. Why? Who was mad?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, I mean people kind of over. Over. The crew chiefs were not happy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That they just went out on their own and did it and they tested them, you know, started testing them and they, they were always good, real good. And then finally they. Pocono Dale wrecked last practice after qualifying. They carried mine as a backup every week and they pulled mine off and he started in the rear and I think he ran third or something. He should have needed just a little bit more. He could have won the race. That was. There was one car he loved, was serial number 44 and he wanted to run that thing everywhere. We didn't run those speedways. Was all short track in Charlotte because we were. They raced at Richmond one night and he got in a wreck down there and knocked right front corner off and smashed some bottom two door bars up. And they called me and said, look, we got Charlotte Wednesday. We'll have a thing at your shop in the morning. Sunday morning at 8 o' clock and we need it back by that night. We had to call my guys, said, look, be at the shop. We got fix the car. We put half front clip on it, two door bars. They picked it up and they was at Charlotte with the thing Wednesday.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Dang.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And then that's. That's the car he ran it, that Bristol when he rattled Terry's cage.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. That was your, your only cup career win as a chassis builder.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was the decision, I suppose to, you know, go the route you went where now you're, you know, you're a, you know, household name in the short track industry in terms of late models, late model Stocks. Everybody's, you know, everybody's buying cars from you. How come you know that that opportunity and, and the success of those cars didn't develop into something more long term or, or even other opportunities with other teams or.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I, I don't know. It's a lot of it. Most people didn't even know that we were building them.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I've got.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Do you hate. Do you wish you'd have done that.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Differently or the way. I mean, I'm still satisfied with where I'm at. Yeah. You know, I mean, yes, you could have built more of them, but. And I built, I built some for Stavola brothers.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And Hamilton drove them and stuff and so. But I mean, I built different ones, but. I don't know. I kind of like the, the short track deal. I don't know. To me, it's just, it's a lot of fun, you know, on Saturday night. And I just like dealing with people, you know, short track racing stuff. And it's. The speedway race stuff is fine and all and it's, it's more money in it, obviously, but I just kind of grew up, you know, with a short track deal and that's, I just kind of enjoy that. That's where I still go every week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So currently, you know, you build chassis for, for us at Junior Motorsports for our late models and other teams as well across the cars tour across late model stocks. What other chassis y' all build?

[Jay Hedgecock]

We do, we do some super late models a little bit. And I'm starting to build some modified cars again. Yeah, I've had people call me, want me to build some modified cars. So I got a new one started. It'll be a house car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Damn. And Jason, where will it run?

[Jay Hedgecock]

We'll run that. Southern modified.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep. Deal with who?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Probably Jason Myers. I'm gonna test it some. Yeah, Jason Myers works for me part time.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Does he?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I didn't know that.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, he works ups. Gets off of there. Yeah, he comes over.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He's a good dude.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, yeah, he's funny.

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where is your shop at?

[Jay Hedgecock]

It's in High Point.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

High Point.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And it's been, it's been there since all these years.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah, I built I was at Martinsville Racing and 1983 and I was at the hotel that night and my, my grandfather, he loved bracing, but he didn't really want me racing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, and he had money and he would always come up to the front of the shop, the Quantum Hut, and roll the window down. He said, why didn't you win Saturday night? I said, well, you know, got outrun grandpa. But I was there at the hotel and the phone rang and I answered in my my mother said your grandpa's here and he wants to know how big a building you want. I said, what do you mean? He said, he's gonna build you a building. I said, well, I don't know. And then he said, well, here's your options. He gave me the options. Well, I'm gonna take the biggest one. I ain't gonna take the smallest one. I get in the middle.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And he said, all right. He said, I'll have the bulldozer over tomorrow morning when you get home from the race, start bulldozing trees down, figure out where you're going to put it. So we built. The first building was like a 60, 40 by 75 and then in 88 I added on and now what? 225 by how many employees you got 12.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

12 employees building how many cars A year, you think?

[Jay Hedgecock]

It just depends. I mean, the most I've ever built in one year was like 35.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, but it varies from winter to.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Is the majority of your cars late miles stock, Right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

This time? Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What do you enjoy about late mile stock racing?

[Jay Hedgecock]

It's just fun to work on them and just try to make them go faster, you know? We've got Mason Diaz driving for us this year and he's. He's really good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He's a good dude.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He's a good driver.

[Jay Hedgecock]

He knows what he's doing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. He's kind of been looking for opportunity over the last couple of years.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right. We had some pretty good runs with him last year. Set on the pole at a speedway with him and then got spun out and. But he's. He's really good and sometimes he. We have trouble qualifying, but we've been working on that. But he know, he really knows. He has his race craft down.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Good.

[Jay Hedgecock]

You know, he. We would have been good Saturday night, but, you know, they kind of jammed up and we got turned around in that deal. It's just nobody's fault. One of them racing deals.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, for sure. What's that schedule look like this year? How do you decide how much you're going to race your house cars?

[Jay Hedgecock]

We're going to run every car to a race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No kidding.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Run all the cars. Door race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How did you decide that that's what.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Mason wants to do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know, but like, you have to. You have to make financial sense of it.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. Well, I mean, it's, it's. He's got sponsor money.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So he put some stuff together.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He was frustrated a couple years ago, trying to figure some things out. We. He drove our car, Hickory one weekend and I think he's a hell of a little driver.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And he works hard. We know it's. His dad owns Southern National. For folks out there listening and Mason, when Southern Nationals having their events, Mason works really, really hard running the program or helping the event come off well. So he's not afraid of hard work.

[Jay Hedgecock]

No. When he runs that racetrack down there, it's like clockwork.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I'm telling you, whatever the schedule is, it stays on schedule and everything runs. Runs really well.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Get by the shop.

[Jay Hedgecock]

He comes by once in a while.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And we. He's supposed to come by here. We're going to go test here pretty soon where we're going to go to Southern national and test.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Got to get ready for the car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Lead off. Lead off event. Yeah. I'm excited. I you, I want to tell folks your cars have won numerous national titles. The Advent Sato part series titles in 12 times. 08, 09, 11, 12, 13, 15, 16, 17, 20, 21, 23 and 20. Numerous car store championships. 16, 17, 22, 23, 24, 25. So as a chassis builder in the late model stocks and you know, the mid Atlantic region of the United States, what is, you know, you've seen a lot of change. You've seen even in the recent years. Our tires have changed a lot over the course of the past couple of years. The cars tours went through a lot of change and growth. You know I, I sat, I sat down all the time and just contemplate, you know, what direction we're headed and are we, are we doing what we need to be doing so that we can sustain success? Right? And everybody as, as long as we've ever raced. I mean you can pull magazines out of the, out of the rack in the, from the 80s, the 70s, it don't matter. Everybody talked about how expensive it was and it's always going to be an expensive hobby. But what are some of the things, I suppose that you are concerned about? What are some things that you think you know as short trackers, us as an industry, us, us all trying to pull this in the right direction. What are some of the things you think we need to be aware of, mindful of? What are some of the things, you know, that you know, that you're excited about, looking forward to? You know, I, I miss, I miss this idea. So a couple years ago, Landon Huffman made a YouTube video about how much it cost him to go race at Hickory. He had a weekly car that he ran out of his dad's shop and he, Nick, he basically itemized his entire season down to about 60 grand. And when me and Kelly and Carrie were racing our late models at Hickory, Tri county and Dubeach annually, I think our, our budget was around $60,000 in the 90s. That's a lot of money. But you know it is going to be an expensive hobby. I don't think it's going to get any cheaper than that. But we've seen costs rising. We've seen, you know, there's, there's, you know, there's more. There's, you know, teams have full time employees. Tires have gone up. You, you know, you mentioned how tires used to be 300 set. I remember when we go to the beach and race in the 90s for it, they were 400, they're twice that now. Those things are out of our control. There's a lot of things that we can't, you know, we can't control it. We can't tell Goodyear or who's your. How much to charge for their tires? But, you know, what are some of the, what do you. I want this to last forever. You know, I love, I don't, I don't even like to call it grassroots race. I love short track racing. I love our local shows. I love our, our Cars Tour. I love Super Late Models, Pro Late Models. I love what's happening down in Daytona right now with New Smyrna and Speed Weeks and all that good stuff. I love seeing what's going on at Berlin. All the great successes across the country. What, what Harvick's done with the West Tour. What, what do we need to do as a guy who's seen this forever, what do we need to do to be mindful that it continues?

[Jay Hedgecock]

I think the way you're doing the Cars Tour, there's so much publicity, you know, I get people in the local restaurant I go to, you know, that the farmers and people that have no idea about racing, they just know that I miss race car. But they watch Cars Tour races, you know, and there's so much interest in the Cars Tour stuff that it makes it easier, I think, for people to get sponsor money, you know, just because of the publicity that you bring and the whole series is brought to, to tv, you know. And I think that that in itself is going to translate down to other short tracks, not necessarily the Cars Tour, but these other people see, you know, hey, you know, this, this Cars Tour deal, you know, is good deal. Maybe these people at Caraway want some money and we don't mind sponsoring them because TV is tv. It hurts in a way, it hurts the grandstands, but it's, in the long run, it's better because of the amount of people you actually get to see that are watching the race. Yeah, that's, you know, it's kind of.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

A double edged sword for sure.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. There's a balance to be cast between being a touring series that's trying to succeed. Profit pay for. You know, we have a, we have a, we have a forecasted cost of how much it costs to run the series and we want to be able to bring in break even and the series has to be, has to afford itself. With that said, we have to be mindful of the local racers at South Boston, the local racers at Caraway, and the landscape has changed. Even what our Local tracks are doing the feature car, you know, has some tracks gone away from the late model stock and more toward a Limited, which in my mind, I mean, the Limited is the same car, same car, just a little bit less power and which I actually kind of, I want to embrace. I like the idea of the Limited car being the feature car, the primary car at some of these tracks, because it is more affordable. It is, it is kind of. It's headed, it's. It's hedging back toward, you know, the possibility of that guy having that race car in his. In his garage outside the house, you know, that we.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We all depend on for the local show. You know, I've, I've always, you know, really enjoyed being around. I'm the same as you like. I would, I would prefer, I prefer, you know, to be standing in that pits at Florence during the icebreaker as opposed to the garage at a, at a, at a, At a big event somewhere. And it's nothing personal. It's just. I do know that all the people that are, you know, for example, the icebreaker this past weekend, the people that are there are there because they want to be, right? Every single person there is there because they are absolutely in love with it.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And. And it's a, It's a, it's really an interesting thing. And it took me a while to get back there. It took me a while to get back to it. I should have had opportunities to race my car and race with Josh or do be closer to that whole deal and experience more with what Josh was doing in our late models. Josh Berry. But I, I was hesitant and I should have done it sooner, but it's been a lot of fun to get plugged back into it, and you've been a witness to it for all these years. Obviously, you know, the engine builders, everybody's got very similar power. There's not like a guy out there with a bunch of advantage, you know, a bunch more power than anyone else. Where's, you know, the chassis builders there? You've got competition in the chassis world. You always have. You know, how do you navigate that? How do you, how do you stay competitive, still build a safe car? You know, you'll have people come in. I, I think a great example would be when Tony Jury, Tony Jr. And those guys got in the Fury deal and the Fury car was a brand new chassis and they kind of took over some market share and was competitive with Hamke and, and other builders and all that ebbs and flows and builders kind of come and Go. How do you not have, how do you navigate that and stay competitive?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, the big thing is you got to have good people driving it and working on it. But in, like I say, you got to win races. You got to win races. You know, for me to stay in business, I tell. Somebody's gotta win, somebody's gotta wreck. That's just bottom line.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I get it. So you gotta have a car crossing the finish line, then you gotta have one to fix.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right. So. But I mean, we, we work on stuff all the time. You know, we have pull down rig at the shop and we work on that. And my son experiments and try. We try different spindles and stuff. And you know, you just gotta. It doesn't take much to be 15th to first when you're talking about 900th. And so if you come up with a spindle or combination or a shock package that, you know that works and picks you up 900, then you know, that puts you up front. And that's what, that's what we do. You know, I mean, and having people like your drivers, you know, with Josh and Josh, when, when Josh figured it out, Josh was impossible to beat.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean, when he finally.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Is that good for business?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yes, yes. Very good. Very good. Yes. But I mean, that's, you know, and the quaffles are really good in your car and they, they're really nice. And I mean, they win races. And that's your man Schaefer that looks after the deal. He and I are old school.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And he, me and him get along good and we exchange ideas and stuff and that's what I gotta do. You can't just sit on what you've got, you know, you gotta keep working. We come up with some things this winter that we did to cars and, you know, and I think it's made them better.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And you're not going to, you're not going to build a car and find a half a second. No days of that are over and done with. You know, you got, you got to little by little creep up on it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What advice would you give to me and Kevin and all the guys running the Tour on how to make sure the tour is successful and the, the car's successful, the chassis successful. I think about the late model stock car. It's a, it's a regional car. It lives in this bubble. It's not a national car. It's not like a pro or super. I mean, I would love for it to become, have a bigger footprint, but that we own. It's difficult for Our owners to want to travel farther than we're going some of these races. But what's. What advice would you give to us as a. As a tour to try to.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean, the way things are going right now, I mean, it's on the right path. You have. You have really good people. You know, Carson is really good at looking after things. The racetrack and I mean, everything. Me right now is good. Like I told you, we get so much. So many people calling. Inquiries. Like my wife showed me emails this morning. People wanting to rent race cars, inquired in the car store. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What is the. You know, I know that there's. I know that our owners, you know, balk it. You know, traveling further than our. Our bubble as a chassis builder. You know, is it. Is it advantageous for you to have the car racing further out into the Midwest or up north or what. What would. Where do you. Does it matter? Does it make a difference to you? Do you want to see.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean, it. The more they race, you know, different places, you know, is.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We had hinted about taking it down to New Smyrna and trying to find a way to be a part of Speed Weeks, just because we thought that'd be a great showcase for our series. Berlin is begging us to come up there and race, you know, but it's a. It's a haul.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Long way to go. But these tracks are calling. They're wanting to. Wanting to see how to get the cars toward. Their fans are asking for it. Our owners are absolutely not interested in it, and I can totally understand that. And I don't want to do anything that's going to deter our teams from competing with us. So there's a. It's a weird sort of juxtaposition to be in where I think, like, a guy like you would love to sell cars more nationally.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But. And there's some of our owners that would probably benefit from the Tour becoming a bigger. Having a bigger footprint. But. Yeah, I don't know how to. I don't know. I'm not. I'm not really pursuing that seriously. But I'm just kind of curious as to, like, if you ever did want to kind of expand the Tour, how could you do it where everybody would be all in, you know, pulling the same rope, the same direction?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yeah. I mean, I think before it's over, I think somebody's gonna present y' all with enough money to entice people to go.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I mean, I'm sure there's people just in working with y' all now that want to Be part of this deal and sponsor it. You know, like I sponsored the pole Ward since it was started. For several years.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I mean there's people with a lot more money than I ever thought about having that were. Or wanting to get into your sport just because of what it's become now, you know, And I think, you know, you start, you come up with a deal where somebody wants to sponsor the series and say, okay, we're going to pay $25,000 to win every race. You're going to get. People drive their truck.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

That far.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So that's a great question. We're getting toward wrapping up here. But I've, so, I don't, I don't never owned a series before, didn't have any experience. Don't pretend to have all the answers or know exactly how to do it. But we're, we're working hard and we're, we, it is on our mind and we're dealing. We're working on it every day. You know, we're trying our hardest. I have, I've had an interesting experience trying to find out what gets teams excited and about coming to the racetrack. And so I've, I've had teams go out of their way to go race for big first place money in a race that, that didn't pay anything from second on back, right. And they, they loved it. They were like, I'm going to run that, that pays this big check knowing that the odds of them actually winning the race, you know, are tough. But they knew, they knew that there was, you know, they were going to that race and going to go all out and spend all the money and effort that it took to go do that. And then you'll have a race where it pays relatively nice on the front end, but the back ends boosted and nobody seems to, I know, recognize like you would think. Like, hey man, I'm, you know, if it cost you 2200 bucks to just get to the racetrack and get everything, your tires and your, your $2,200 in as soon as you buckle up to go practice.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm going to, you know, if the back end of the purse covered that, you think that would draw a lot of interest. But it really doesn't seem to do that. I don't know if the late model stock bubble is as big as it can be. I mean there's only, like I said, it's only racing in this sort of small geographical area. There's only. If you had to guess how many late model stock operating late model stock cars Even at the regular shows, there's probably 200, 250 cars in that.

[Jay Hedgecock]

In that realm.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They get 80 cars for the big race at Martinsville. That used to get 180, 160, 120. You know, how do we get there? How do we get there? How do we. When you put that, you know, when you, when you. Instead of paying 1400 for last, you have a race where you pay 2,500 for last, where are the 10, 15, 20 cars that are supposed to show up? How do we get there?

[Jay Hedgecock]

Like I say, I think that it's going to become through their being able to get more sponsors. I just think that, you know, there's so many of the companies that are looking at this deal here now. You know, I mean, we talk to people all the time, you know about it. And then there's this. There's going to be interest shown that's going to present, be presented. People with money that's going to help them get to the racetrack whether they can afford to or not on their own. Yeah, I just think that because like I say, like I told you before, you know, the interest in cars tour is right now is probably 10 times what it was five years ago. I mean, like I say, everybody, do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You think we need to. Do you think it would be in our best interest to do a better service to our teams in terms of showcasing their partners? Like you're tell what I'm hearing from you, and I mean this is common sense, but what I'm hearing from you, I'm thinking more about the purse. How can I. What did my dude. What. What strings am I not pulling with the purse to draw everybody there? It ain't the purse. They need the support on the front end from ex partner or local business or whatever. And so should I therefore maybe put more of a spotlight on all of these individual partners on these race cars, right, that are coming. That are coming to our racetrack to make sure that those people are walking out of there feeling like the, you know, they're getting a showcase.

[Jay Hedgecock]

I think, I think the sponsor deals, I mean, it helps whenever you showcase them on, you know, on the. When you're doing the racetrack and you're on flow, you know, like here's, you know, your to say Lowe's car or whatever, you know, and then. Because whenever I was I drove modified cars, Lowe's actually sponsored me before they sponsored Jimmy Johnson.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And we took in, we won a race at North Wilkesboro in a modified car with low spots on it. And they. We had A meeting up there. And they told me that the amount of airtime that they got was equivalent to like $300,000 in money spent on a commercial.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right. And that.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And it was free.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And that's kind of. I think a lot of these companies will see that, you know, because, you know, I don't know the exact fan base that Flo has for cars, tour races, but I know, like, Wilkesboro and stuff is, like, good. Yeah, really good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, Wilkesboro is a great race for us.

[Sponsor/Ad Voice]

Yeah.

[Jay Hedgecock]

And I just. I just think that it's not going to be what y' all are doing, purse wise. I think that's the thing that you all are doing is help going to help get people's money just through other companies coming in, wanting their name on the race car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right, well, we can certainly do a better job there. I'm glad to walk out of here with some. Some insight and some advice. Jay, it's been a lot of fun talking to you, man. I'm glad you came here today. You're one of those individuals, like your names, your last name is recognizable mainly through your success as a chassis builder, particularly in the local, you know, short track scene. But I wanted people to hear your story in full and, And. And kind of know where you came from, because I, too, I, I myself wanted to personally know more about that. And I like seeing it to racetrack. I like you being involved. Thank you for the impact that you've had on all these drivers over the years, all the cars you've built for people, all the support you've gave people. You know, you don't, you don't really ever. You don't cross me as one of those guys that kind of sits back and reflects on much of that. But you've, You've, you know, you've personally influenced tons of careers in all the chassis and cars you build and all the racetracks you've been to and people you supported. I mean, you know, there's. In the short track world, if you got a guy building motors, you know, and you go the racetrack, he's got five engines there up and down pit road, and he goes and he tunes on them. He makes sure everybody's happy. And I see you doing the same thing. Even if you have a house car there, you come by, you check in on us, you make sure we're doing all right. Got any questions, got any challenges, and I appreciate that, that support. So just looking forward to seeing the racetrack this year. Glad you're going to be at A lot of car store races.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Yep.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And, yeah, we'll see at the racetrack.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Well, I appreciate you having me on the show. It's been good. And we'll see you around at the racetrack soon.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes, sir. All right. So that's Jay Hedgecock. And great conversation. Learned a ton. Man, would I give anything to have been a witness to some of the short track races that he saw dad run at Caraway and other places. You know, tangling with Butch Lindley across the finish line, barely beating him, wrecking with Sam Ard. Just incredible. I can't imagine what it must have been like to be there and watch all that go down. But Jay was around for all of that and didn't know he built that car that Richard Petty flipped down the front straightaway. Did not know he built cars for my dad, that dad would drive in the cup series. And so, yeah, I know he's been building late model stocks for a long time, and his cars have been around for quite a while, but hadn't had a lot of knowledge beyond that. And so it was great to get him in here. And every now and then, you know, we kind of. I like to bring those guys in here because it kind of. I get this story. I get this question all the time. There's some kids standing out here on the front porch of junior motorsports right now that are students over at the technical NASCAR institute, and they want to know how to get into this sport. And there's not an answer. There's no way. There's no easy answer. You know, they just. They would prefer that you would have an opening in this building and hire them into that role, and off they go. But sometimes you got to be kind of like Jay Hitchcock and just create it yourself, Right? Just. Jay Edgecock didn't start building his first race car thinking, man, this is. I'm gonna make a living building race cars. He built it because he wanted to race. He wanted to go to the racetrack. He wanted to build a car and go see it compete, you know, and he did that well enough that he started to accumulate customers, people that wanted him to build cars for them, you know, and that's just a process. It's a long, long road. But every now and then, I love to get those guys in here because we get to hear, like, the genuine path of. Of. Of. Of Get. Of one of the routes now, you know, to getting into this industry certainly was a different route than I took. I was kind of born into it, but not everybody's that fortunate. So awesome to learn from Jay. Awesome. To get some insight from Jay on the current state of short track racing and some of the things that, you know, he likes about the tour and what the torque do better and yeah, I think he enjoyed being here. So we got a lot of things to talk about before we close out the show. Just want to make y' all know that we will have a live show down in Daytona Thursday this the 12th at the Fan Zone inside the racetrack. Dirty Mo Media will be live on Sirius XM. We've done this last year. I'll be on from 3 to 4pm with Jeff Gluck, Freddie Kraft. We're going to have some others come on as well. Jeff Gordon, ryan Blaney. From 4 to 4:30 there'll be like a crossover show with Dirty mo Media and SiriusXM and then from 4:30 to 6 SiriusXM Speedway with Dave Moody. Our show will drop on the podcast and YouTube later that night. Also, we've got new merch out Dirty Mo media merch for 2026. It's pretty awesome. The green flag collection has dropped. Also we got a Valentine's Day line that's perfect if you're buying for someone on Valentine's Day. Hoodies, tees, flags, the whole deal. Go to shop dirtymomedia.com all right, so I've enjoyed it this week in the Arby's studio. Thank you to Arby's new partner. Part of our programming here at Dirty Mo Media. Don't forget about Arby's new Meat in three box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meets. We're off to Daytona. We're in Daytona. We're live show in Daytona. We're having a lot of fun this week. We're going to try to win us an Xfinity race. Try to get into the Daytona 500. And we're going to come back next week and tell you all about it. We'll see you. Check out DirtyMomedia on Instagram, Facebook X and TikTok with Venmo Stash.

[Jay Hedgecock]

A tag on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of your favorite brands. Earn more cash when you do more with Stash. Venmo Stash Terms and exclusions apply. Match $100 cash back per month. See terms @Venmo Me StashTerms, we heard you.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

9 years of bring back the snack wrap and you've won. But Maybe you should have asked for more.

[Jay Hedgecock]

Say hello to the Hot Honey snack wrap.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Now you've really won. Go to McDonald's and get it while you can.