Jimmy Fennig Talks Bobby Allison’s Daytona 500 Win & Career-Ending Crash

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download

Episode: Jimmy Fennig Talks Bobby Allison’s Daytona 500 Win & Career-Ending Crash
Date: April 22, 2026
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Guest: Jimmy Fennig

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Dale Earnhardt Jr. sits down with legendary NASCAR crew chief Jimmy Fennig for a deep dive into his storied motorsports career. The conversation weaves through Fennig’s early days in Wisconsin dirt tracks, his formative partnership with Bobby Allison—including Allison's iconic 1988 Daytona 500 victory—and the behind-the-scenes trials following Allison’s career-ending crash. Fennig recounts his journey through ASA, the Cup Series, collaborations with racing greats like Mark Martin and Kurt Busch, his philosophy as a crew chief, and his thoughts on the evolution of stock car racing. The episode is rich in anecdotes, revealing leadership lessons, technical insights, and candid reflections on some of NASCAR’s most formative decades.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Roots and Introduction to Racing

• Jimmy’s family legacy: Grew up in a racing family, with his father and grandfather both racers; started building and racing cars right out of high school.
  “Kind of had it in my blood, if you could say that.” [[06:45] Jimmy Fennig]
• First cars & racing ingenuity:
  • Built a 1963 Ford Fastback with his brother for Wisconsin dirt tracks.
  • Innovated by modifying stock parts for better performance through trial and error. “Back in the day, we used to just sit there and take a torch and cut our A frames and shorten them up to get the camber we wanted. ... Trial and error.” [[10:55–11:48] Fennig]

2. Path into Crew Chiefing

• Transition from driver to builder: Realized his strength was building and thinking about cars rather than driving:
  “I wasn’t a good driver... but I could consider myself a good builder, good thinker or innovator.” [[10:24] Fennig]
• Salvage yard days: Refined skills working in salvage yards, which doubled as a parts resource and education in vehicle construction.
  • “I’d cut up cars… throw cars in there and watch them get crushed.” [[13:04–14:11] Fennig]
• Mentors & working relationships: Early work with Al Shiel led to championships, later connecting with Jerry Gunderman—setting the stage for national-level racing.

3. Breaking Into National Ranks and ASA Significance

• ASA (American Speed Association) dominance:
  • Fennig details how ASA racing in the Midwest was its own world, with a competitive spirit and expertise that often confounded visiting Southern stars.
  • “It was certainly its own little world… up in those races with the ASA guys. Back in the day.” [[22:53] Earnhardt Jr.]
  • Stories of helping Dale Sr. set up cars for Milwaukee, illustrating the technical discrepancies between regions.
  • “We never came down here and … set up a cup car the same way.” [[25:54] Fennig]
• Working with racing legends: Built powerhouse teams that attracted drivers like Bobby Allison, Rusty Wallace, Bill Elliott, and ultimately Mark Martin.

4. NASCAR Cup Series — The Leap & Loyalty

• Bobby Allison collaboration:
  • Fennig’s relationship with Allison marked by deep trust—Allison famously advised Fennig to walk away from DiGard at a pivotal moment.
  • “Go back to Wisconsin. … I’ll call you when I’m ready again.” [[36:19] Fennig]
  • Relocated to crew chief for Allison with the Stavola Brothers, leading to one of the most memorable upsets at Daytona.

5. 1988 Daytona 500 Win

• Technical mastery with the Buick:
  • Discussed the technical and team effort it took to make the underdog Buick competitive at Daytona.
  • “Nobody was worried about the Buicks. ... But y’all had the best car there that weekend.” [[41:29] Earnhardt Jr.]
  • Intensive Talladega testing, small aerodynamic tweaks, and Bobby’s hands-on involvement were key.
  • “It’s the little stuff to make the big difference.” [[42:33] Fennig]
• Victory lane emotion and crew chief perspective:
  • “You can’t believe it… we just did this… It was unbelievable.” [[43:31] Fennig]

6. Bobby Allison’s Career-Ending Crash (Pocono 1988)

• Personal and team aftermath:
  • Fennig recalls the devastating day and the empathy for Allison’s battle back to health.
  • Preserved the crashed car for Bobby: “I saved that car. I put it on the roof… with a cover on it so nobody could see it.” [[46:57] Fennig]
  • Team had to adapt, continuing to race in Bobby’s honor as therapy as much as duty:
    “That’s the best therapy there is… that’s what Bobby would have wanted. He wants results, too, even from the hospital bed.” [[48:27] Fennig]

7. The ‘What-ifs’: Mike Alexander & Dick Trickle

• Mike Alexander’s talent & tragedy:
  • Alexander filled in after Allan’s crash, showcasing talent (third at Atlanta) until sidelined by injury.
  • “I would consider him as good as Mark Martin to this day.” [[50:08] Fennig]
• Dick Trickle’s debut and quirks:
  • Hired the “rookie” Dick Trickle; shared stories about his infamous cowboy boots and in-car cigarette lighter.
  • “Four tires and a set of shoes, guys!” [[53:10] Fennig]
  • Trickle lighting a cigarette under caution, then crashing on pit road—a legendary moment.

8. Building and Running Teams in Tough Times

• Starting Bobby Allison Motorsports:
  • Challenges of running an owner-driver team in NASCAR’s early-’90s economic climate.
  • Multiple drivers, resourcefulness with parts, focus on winning spirit.
  • "I don't care what steering beholder was it. Let's go win this race." [[59:18] Fennig]
• Memorable story: Allison testing a car at Martinsville post-injury and running near the pace, impressing everyone.
  • “He still had to drive back then.” [[60:37] Fennig]

9. Move to Roush, Mark Martin Partnership & Beyond

• Joining Roush Racing (1997):
  • Guided by Mark Martin’s encouragement.
  • Several successful years—multiple wins and top points finishes.
• Transition to working with Kurt Busch (2002):
  • Initially hesitant, but recognized Busch’s raw talent and speed potential.
  • “Kurt’s a pleasant person once you get to know him... but he would blow up on everything.” [[65:11–67:23] Fennig]
  • Relationship included post-race cooling and even joint sports psychologist sessions.
  • Notorious for having to key Busch off the radio during the Daytona 500.
• Championship with Kurt Busch (2004):
  • “That championship win is something you’ll never forget. … All the hard work kind of paid off, you know.” [[69:53–70:32] Fennig]
  • Enjoyed the unique post-title opportunities (New York, White House visits).

10. Later Years, Retirement, and Reflections

• Mentoring and executive roles:
  • Involved hands-on in superspeedway programs.
  • Found satisfaction observing, advising, and staying engaged from home:
    “I see more there [watching from home] than I could see at the racetrack.” [[73:32] Fennig]
• Personal passions:
  • Building and collecting hot rods (notably a 2006 GT40 he’s never driven).
• On true retirement:
  • Not drawn to traditional retired life:
    “I like to keep going... Not a beach… I build my own hot rods.” [[74:38–74:52] Fennig]

11. Legacy & Industry Relationships

• Longevity & respect:
  • Multiple drivers Fennig worked with have made the Hall of Fame.
  • Dale reflects on how Fennig’s focus and no-nonsense approach set him apart.
  • Fennig on friendships in the garage: “I kind of stayed in my own world, you know, because I focus on my own stuff. … I’m gonna have something better. That was my mind thought.” [[77:43–77:49] Fennig]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On technical ingenuity:
  “You don’t have much room to work, so you gotta, you know, get the best pieces you can on your car every week.” — Fennig [[03:59]]
• On becoming a crew chief:
  “I enjoyed it more because I wasn’t a good driver, but I could consider myself a good builder, good thinker or innovator.” — Fennig [[10:24]]
• On Daytona 500 glory:
  “Everything lit up back then. You could test whenever you want... It's the little stuff to make the big difference.” — Fennig [[41:46, 42:33]]
• On enduring hard times:
  “That's the best therapy there is… that's what Bobby would have wanted. … Let's go to work and win those for him.” — Fennig [[48:27]]
• On Dick Trickle’s quirks:
  “Four tires and a set of shoes, guys!” [[53:10]]
• On choosing loyalty:
  “Bobby Allison was getting along with these owners for some reason, you didn’t need to be there... Bobby brought me down there.” — Fennig [[36:33–36:38]]
• On the championship with Kurt Busch:
  “That championship win is something you’ll never forget… all the hard work paid off.” — Fennig [[69:53–70:32]]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Early days, building cars, family roots: [06:45–13:00]
• ASA era and regional racing culture: [18:00–25:55]
• Technical stories, beating Cup drivers in ASA: [22:53–26:52]
• Helping Dale Sr. in ASA, differences in setup: [23:34–25:54]
• First Cup opportunity and loyalty to Bobby Allison: [35:46–36:56]
• Daytona 500 win with Buick: [41:29–43:55]
• Bobby Allison’s crash and aftermath: [46:57–48:27]
• Mike Alexander and Dick Trickle stories: [49:00–54:05]
• Starting Bobby Allison Motorsports: [55:52–60:26]
• Roush Racing, Mark Martin partnership begins: [61:50–63:49]
• Switching to Kurt Busch, championship run: [64:37–70:32]
• Legacy as a mentor, retirement reflections: [71:39–74:00]
• Reflections on friendships, reputation: [76:38–77:51]

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Episode Tone & Final Thoughts

Fennig’s forthright, blue-collar, detail-obsessed demeanor shines throughout—anchored by stories of both heartbreak and triumph. Dale Jr.’s admiration and awe are constant, the episode serving as both a historical record and a masterclass in NASCAR leadership, resilience, and adaptation.

This is a can’t-miss listen for NASCAR historians, team builders, and anyone fascinated by how character, technical purity, and teamwork shape motorsports greatness.

Transcript

[Jimmy Fennig]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. We're Dale Jr. Should I say it? Dale Jr. Podcast. I gotta say it. Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Back again for another episode of the Dell Jr. Download in the Arby's Studio. Want to tell you about the Arby's new meet in three box. Get more meal for your money at Arby's Arby's we have the meets and we've got a great show for you today. Jimmy Finnig is coming in to tell us about his career. He was a crew chief in the Cup Series. We all may remember his days with Kurt Busch as a championship Crew Chief in 2004, Mark Martin even as recently Mackenzie, Carl Edwards. But way before then he was working with guys like Bobby Allison and in the ASA ranks he worked with Mark Martin and several other drivers. My father would go up to the ASA ranks and run and I remember Jimmy being in the in the pits working on cars and they had their own little world up there, their own little racing world up there. It was very, very competitive, very tough to not something that was going to be easy for dad and it showed. We'd go up there and dad would get his teeth kicked in and and Jimmy and those guys would come down here and bring their knowledge and their success and experience from their ASA racing and find similar success in the world of nascar inside the Cup Garage and can't wait to talk to this guy. I'll be honest, I think throughout most of my career I never said two words to this man in the garage. He was quiet. He was not a jokester. Only time he was smiling was when his car was winning races. Otherwise he was all about his business. A little bit intimidating. So I'm looking forward to talking to him and telling him, you know, how much we respect him and appreciate him. Let's get him in the room and get this started. Been a long time coming to get you on this show. You've had a lot of success in NASCAR and won a lot of races with a lot of different drivers and your path to NASCAR was quite an interesting one. So I've been looking forward to this. I was around when dad was messing with that ASA stuff in the 80s and the late 80s, and I think that was kind of right around the. The same time that you were. You were kind of tipping a toe in and out of cup before you eventually stayed here. And so I want to talk about that a little bit. But special interest or special projects on today's current car. We hear all the time how unique this car is, comparable to what we raced for years, how challenging it is, how things have changed. And in. In terms of the role crew chiefs play in their jobs and job descriptions. You've. You certainly lived in all the different eras that this sport's experienced. What is it? What. What's. What's. What's enjoyable about the job you do today?

[Jimmy Fennig]

What, what, what.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What gets you fired up?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, what I do today, it's challenging, you know, especially with this new car. It's always challenging to see with the rules they have. You know, if in the sport we got nowadays, it's different. So you gotta really look all over the place. You know, QC is a big part of our sport right now that's kind of overtaken everything. You know, the pieces coming in and out, they vary a little bit, so we kind of watch that pretty close. But, you know, that's. You don't have much room to work, so you gotta, you know, get the best pieces you can on your car every week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I noticed that. I, you know, I'm have some opportunity as a broadcaster to learn and see a little bit behind some of the curtains. And, you know, when I was working at Hendrick, I only knew what we were doing. I really didn't know much else about outside of our building. But as a broadcaster, you kind of have had the chance to understand some of the challenges that the teams are faced with. And when we did put the car together to go run the Daytona 500 a couple years ago, I was really surprised by the. That I learned just what you mentioned, that all of the parts do have these very tiny, tiny nuances. And the team has to try to make sure that the best parts are on the car every week. And it might it just a little variance of. Of shape or tolerance, and you're looking for hundreds of thousands, you know, instead of, you know, big chunks of speed here and there, you're putting together all these tiny little advantages or things that you think would be advantages all over the race car with body parts or whatever it's really fascinating to me that the teams have found a way to still influence performance, still have a role in. In how. How what kind of race car they can build. And so you still. You still feel like, you know, as an individual and you're able to make a difference.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, I mean, it's. To me, I like challenge, you know, and nascar, you know, put a challenge out there to build the best car every week for. For that, I don't know. You know, you got to look back in. In the past, too. Our cars detailed matter back then too, you know, but nowadays with the talents as they have, you got to really be really be close.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So you spent a large majority of your career working at Roush and what is now rfk, and we're going to dive into all that down the road. But what was the thing that introduced you to racing

[Jimmy Fennig]

back in the day? When I was a kid, you know, out of high school, I. My. My father and grandfather, they. They race race cars, you know, so kind of had it in my blood, if you could say that, what we did.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And what kind of cars were they running?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Old jalopies on dirt. But my grandpa, he worked for American Motors back in the day, and he had a Rambler Rebel.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And he ran, I think USAC with it, you know, back in the day. But it was, you know, something I like, something I enjoyed. And out of high school, I decided to start building the cars and go race them at our local dirt track.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Did you have trouble, you know, staying focused in school with all that going on around you?

[Jimmy Fennig]

No.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

In my family, it was difficult for a lot of us to want to go to school, want to get the grades kind of, you know. Dad, he quit school in 8th grade to race cars in the backyard. He wanted to be in shop with grand with Ralph, so he got out of school as quick as he could. But. So you had. Did your family instill the work ethic and your ability to stay in school? Like, how. What kind of a student were you?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, I got by. You know, I didn't go to college. You know, I just finished out high school, but really took the classes that would help me down the road, you know, like metal work and stuff like that and reading. But otherwise, that's about where I stayed in high school.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And then, yes, I was glad to get out, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you built your own cars?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, built my car, yep. My first car was a 63 Ford fastback. You know, raised local dirt tracks up there in Wisconsin.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And built that. Me and My brother Jeffrey, we built it together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And then when you say built it, what. What does that consist of? You just stripped down a street legal car?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, stripped it down. Try gutting out, get as light as possible back. Even back then, you know, weight was a big thing. Put our own roll cage in it,

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

you know, I remember didn't have a full cage from. From snout to snout.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So. And then, you know, went to stock our products, Bought my first racing hub. I thought that was a big day, you know, back in the day there I said, wow, look at this piece, you know, so. But it was, it was interesting.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. You know, who were you racing against?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Just local guys from town. You know, Friday, Saturday night, Saturday nights, Hales Corners.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What is, Where's. Where's that place at?

[Jimmy Fennig]

It's a little bit west of Milwaukee. You know where Milwaukee is? Just a little bit west. Hales Corners. It was a famous. Well, not famous, but it was a local. Our local dirt track. You know, we had a lot of racetracks up there. You know, we could go race, really, so. But it was fun. It was enjoyable, and it was challenging. You know, it was kind of, how can I get this better? How can I do this better? And that's how I started.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. What did you think about driving?

[Jimmy Fennig]

And. Not too good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Why?

[Jimmy Fennig]

I don't know. I built them, went driving them, and I just couldn't feel a car good enough, you know what I mean, to know where the problems were. So I hung it up fast enough, you know, I. I did a sportsman series and then I did a late model series. And after the late model series, I just kind of gave it up. You know, I'd make the semi feature, never made features.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And, you know, were you just. Were you discouraged at this point about that, or was it like, hey, you know, I love working on them. I'm. I. You've, you've. You obviously made a. Made a life as an incredible crew chief. So you found, did you, early in your life, did you find joy in the work and building the car, preparing the car? Did that motivate you as much as driving?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. Working on a car, once I got. I enjoyed it more because I wasn't a good driver, put it that way. But I could consider myself a good builder, a good thinker or innovator on stuff, you know, and that's where I think I, I shine when I was a kid, you know, what were some

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

of the things that were innovative at the time in terms of geometry? You know, some guys probably weren't doing a Ton of Geo stuff or thinking about, you know, camber gains, things like that, right?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Back in the day were stock.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I remember sitting back in the day, we used to just sit there and take a torch and cut our A frames and shorten them up to get the camera we where we wanted. You know, that was back in the day didn't have tubular use stock stuff.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And not everybody was probably sharp on exactly what they were trying to accomplish. Did you draw all this out on the. On the floor or. Well, how did you know what you needed to do?

[Jimmy Fennig]

You kind of think about it. You think about what's going on with the tire when you get into the corner, how much loads on it, how much it flexes and all that. And you just say, well, if I want that patch down, I want to make sure I've got it in the right direction.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and that was, you know, back in the day.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. But did you. Were y' all messing with bump, steer and.

[Jimmy Fennig]

No, not that. No. So.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So all of that, you know, ingenuity and creativity is all self taught. Just tribal error, you know, trial and error.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Trial and error. You know, we come up with, you know, as dirt track says, you know, as the drier to get, the less grip you got. So we put a little weight jacker in the left rear corner with slots on it so we could load the left rear spring more. You know, that was our adjustment because we ran leaf springs.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Not coils, leaves. So we did stuff like that, you know, just say, okay, how can we do this? So kind of like a reverse shackle. Just had to go that up and down in slots to spring, man. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Pretty cool. You know, you got out of. You got a drive in your own car and you went to work for a guy named Al Shiel.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yep.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

As you and your brother Jeffrey.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, mainly just me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

What it was is when I was building my cars, he owned a salvage yard. So we.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're going over there getting stuff.

[Jimmy Fennig]

We'd go over there and become friends with him, got a relationship with him

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

and he had a car.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He did, yeah. Driving it late model. Yeah. He used to drunk ride modifieds years ago. Then he went to late model. And so then I decided he kind of took an interest in me and he says, hey, come work for me. So I went to work in his salvage yard in the winter and then worked in his shop on race cars during the summer.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What were you doing in salvage yard?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, I'd cut up cars, you know, cut more.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Customer needed something. You Go back there and get it.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Get it. You know, it was just obviously young.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So salvage yards are a thing of the past these days. You know, I used to. There was a salvage yards down the street from Dad's place on Highway 3. And me and Carrie had run back in there all the time for ball joints and stuff for our street stock car. And, you know, if somebody came in, need an alternator or whatever, the salvage yard guy, you run back there and pull it off a truck or car, whatever, you know, and that was like, you know, and they were. There were a lot of salvage yards around in our area. And I imagine that working in a salvage yard. No, no, every day was different. There was always something more interesting happening. And that seems like that would have been a fun place to be.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, it was fun. I mean, you would see, you know, people coming in, getting this parts. We'd let them go up in the yard and pick some parts too, you know. And then the interesting part, we. The owner, Al, he just. He bought a crusher, a car crusher. So we had a big forklift and

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

throw cars in there. That'd be fun.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Throw cars in there and watch them get crushed.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that'd be pretty neat. The one down the street from Dad's. Some of our old race cars ended up in there, and I imagine they ended up going to. Going to. Getting salvage or recycled for the metal. But I wish I would have known well enough to not let them go to. That I could have them. Yeah, to have them today would be pretty interesting. But

[Jimmy Fennig]

you.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you get opportunity to. To. You're done driving. Yeah. You know, and you're going to start working on Al's car. And y' all would have success winning track championship. That was in 1971. So, like, all through the 70s, this is what you did.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, just worked for Al. And we raced, you know, back. Back in Wisconsin, back in that day. You'd race. You can raise seven days a week. You know, we would race probably, I would say, five days a week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you pay attention to. To NASCAR at that time? Did y' all listen to the race? A little bit. A little bit. But because NASC in that time is still very big. Very big. Big. But not, you know, races weren't.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Televised. And I wonder. I guess, I wonder in Wisconsin, what of NASCAR were you hearing and how aware were you of, you know, the. The David Pearsons and Richard Petty's of the world? Yeah, that was a big deal.

[Jimmy Fennig]

That was a big deal. You know, David Pearson did You want to.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you know then that you might. Might be headed in that direction or.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Not really.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I wanted to make a living in racing.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Wanted to make a living in racing because it was enjoyable. Yeah, it was enjoyable. And it was. Every week was a different challenge. You know, you had to go there, and it was about winning, too. You know, you didn't want to go there, just race, so. And Al was. Al was a very talented race car driver, and he won a lot of races, you know, so. And on asphalt and dirt. So we started on dirt, and we progressed to asphalt, you know, and went up slinger, Kahana, you know, different places like that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And won races there and championship. So it was enjoyable.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Were you the lead mechanic at that point?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, I was the lead guy. You know, that's was my baby. You know, just take care of the car maintenance, building, you know, stuff like that. But, yeah, it was. It was fun back then. Yeah. I mean, but it was a lot of work, you know, racing that many. You know, you raised dirt one night, asphalt, next dirt, turning the car right around every day. The car around every day. Yeah, Cleaning it, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you have much help.

[Jimmy Fennig]

One person helped me, Ray Day, he used to help me. He was a kind of retired old guy. And we just go in Al's garage, and that garage is still there to the day with, no kidding, some of Al's cars right inside of it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, damn.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So it's pretty cool. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Is the salvage yard still there?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Still there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So I think his daughter runs it now.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. How about that? Hey, this is Dalenhardt Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. Download gear, including the I'm ol, drink some beer T shirt we've been talking about here around the office. Head over to shop.dirtymomedia.com for all the latest merch.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I have to tell you, I was just looking on ebay, where I go for all kinds of things I love. And there it was. That hologram trading card. One of the rarest.

[Jimmy Fennig]

The last one I needed for my set. Shiny like the designer handbag of my dreams.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

One of a kind.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Ebay had it. And now everyone's asking, ooh, where'd you get your windshield wipers? Ebay has all the parts that fit my car. No more annoying, just beautiful. Millions of finds, each with a story. EBay, things people love.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you did this all through the 70s? In the early 80s, you'd go work for a guy named Jerry Gunderman. Who is he?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Jerry Gunderman owned a trucking company up there. And he loved racing, just loved it. You know, he was friends with Al Shield, you know, and all of us, we kind of hung out together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was Al getting toward retirement or.

[Jimmy Fennig]

No.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was the situation? Why would you, why would you leave with the.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, I think Jerry come in and he wanted to do more bigger races. I can't say bigger races. He wanted to go ARCO racing, ASA racing, you know, and then eventually he fueled the car for Bobby, you know, so.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, Bobby Allison.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And you. He told you this, Jerry?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And you're like that. Yeah. So how'd you tell Al?

[Jimmy Fennig]

We're all friends back then, you know, and Al was out and just. Al, I'm. We're going to go work for Jerry, you know, we're going to go race a couple racetracks. You know, I don't know what you can say. Texas Motor Speedway. We raced, you know, different racetrack. So that's what we did. And that's. We left good friends and everything. You know, Al needed help, I'd help them, and that's how that ended up.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So you build a. It says here you built a powerhouse short track team. So you work with Jerry in the early 80s, you went ran some ARCA stuff Texas World. These are different racetracks than what you'd experience racing with al in the 70s around Wisconsin and so forth at Slinger and all those others that you mentioned. What was the. What was that like? I suppose going from working on a car that's got to go get around a half mile track every weekend that's going to run dirt one night and asphalt the next and all these different racetracks to building and working on race cars that are running 170, 150 miles an hour around Texas World.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I can't jump. Yeah, it's a big jump, you know, but you have different, different types of cars and different races. So. And my goal every time I went was let's go to win. You know, no matter was Al anybody, any one of our drivers, you know, let's just prepare a car good enough that we can go out there and win with.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So we got these bigger tracks and the competition level is getting a little bit. A little bit harder, you know, who did you lean?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you have folks that you leaned on and turned when you, you know, when you're going to Texas World for the first time or going to some of these bigger tracks for the first time? Who the folks that you.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, Bobby was a good one for Texas World because he drove that car

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

at Texas how did you. How did you become friendly with Bobby?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, that started back at, I don't know if you're familiar with Wayne Erickson, the owner, used to be the owner of Slinger Speedway. He wanted Bobby come racist racetrack. So Benny Ortel put all that stuff together and got Bobby up there. So Bobby brought his own car, his own personal car. He had ASA type car and he went up there and ran and he wasn't. They missed the setup a little, you know, but we ran there every week, you know. So Benny put that deal together to drive one of Jerry's cars or one of Al's cars up there. So we went up there and Bobby just, you know, he like this thing, drives great. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And then ever since that Bobby. And while Benny put it together where Bobby was in them cars everywhere we went to Rockford, Illinois, you know, stuff like that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Benny Ortel was sort of a, I don't know, PR general manager type guy. Worked with Bobby, worked my worth, worked with my dad for years. And Mark Martin, you would know this. Just speaking to the viewers about Benny or tell you going to hear that name maybe once or twice more in the, in the story. I would say when dad got involved in asa, he bought a Dylan car and he ran it out of. Out of his shop down here. He also misses setup most often. I would. I went with him a few times to. To a couple races. I think I went to Wisconsin one night, but. And you were there, I think, down in the pits working on Mark's car or one of the Miller cars, might have been Bobby. But the dad would go and run and struggle, you know, and I just, I couldn't understand. It was like. I guess it was the first experience that I'd had realizing that, you know, you're. It just wasn't going to be that easy to go into that world because it was certainly its own little world. Asa, you had, you know, you had Dick Trickle, Butch Miller, all these incredible Seneca, all these incredible drivers and y' all were. It was almost like its own little NASCAR cup world up there.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, and, and, you know, obviously Alan Kwiki and others would come out of that, that, that type of racing. We would see it on TV like down here in the early 80s, we. I would see it on TV through different to TNN and different things. And yeah, when dad would go up there, he would get his tail kicked. And I always wondered like, man, what is it that they know that we don't know? What do they. How are.

[Jimmy Fennig]

What.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What do they do to Their cars. Like, because dad would take him, you know, Tony Senior and I think one time he went up there with Jake Elder to a race like we took,

[Jimmy Fennig]

we had one time he went up with me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh yeah. I don't know if you know the story. So anyway, we're sitting there, me and Mark are down south here. You know, we just started working. You know, I think this is, I don't know what year. 87, you know, and we're 87. 88 in that era. And your dad called Mark up and says Mark, you know, come set my Dylan car up.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So Mark called me up one night and me and Mark ended up over at his mother's house.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes. At the shop back out.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Back out back there. So we went in there and strung the rear end, set it up for Milwaukee, for Milwaukee mile.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and that was, that was a good deal, you know. And then actually your dad even flew me up there in his plane with him, you know. So we flew up there and I think he was leading the race and a lap car took him out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, but he was, he was doing good up there, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was that car missing when they tried to take it and go run it, they wouldn't, they couldn't, they wouldn't, they wouldn't run well at all. I mean I remember this very, very vividly. I always was curious as to why dad couldn't. Well, him, him and like their, their idea, you know, of, of, of how they would approach setting the car up wasn't what was needed. And you know, they'd go up there and, and, but of course, I mean super competitive. I just mentioned all the drivers and you know, and there's tons of guys like you that have come out of that, the ASA ranks and super talented mechanics and crew chiefs and so forth. So it wasn't going to be easy for anybody to go up there and race and compete and do well. But just like you said, like Bobby took his car, didn't run. Darrell Waltrip would try to time or to moderate success any. You know, what was, what was it about ASA that made it so tough and what was, what was it about the men? What was it about your techniques, your, your literal techniques to setting the car up? When you went and set dad's car up in his shop, was the rear end not in it? Right. Was the, did they have, was there, was there theories around Front Geo just very basic in general comparable to what you guys were trying to do?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, I think, you know, back then. Why they didn't because like you said, the best of the best were up there. You know, the Seneca's, the Mike Eddie's, Ed Howells, you know, and we lived and breathed that. Yeah. We never came down here and. Okay, I'm going to set up a

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

cup car the same way.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And dad was always too. I think dad ran a lot of Bilstein shocks and I don't know if that was a hot ticket at that particular time. Like, he would be. You know how he, he was so loyal to, like, certain brands like Goodyear. Right. When the tire wars came in. I ain't running Hoosiers. I'll go to. I'll go to Charlotte and run 30th all day, you know, with Dave Marcus in the back, running my good years. And he was so, like, he'd have a. He'd get a deal like the Bilstein Shock deal. And you guys were probably running something completely different. But. Yeah, I don't know. I always was always surprised by. Not surprised, I guess, but like, impressed with how difficult it was for dad to go run and be competitive up in those, up in those races with the ASA guys. Back in the day. You. You've had that. So you're forging this relationship with Bobby and that would be the catalyst to, to get you down into, into the cup garage eventually.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yep.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I, I do want to ask you, like. So you're, you're working with, you're racing every now and then, Bobby's coming up there to run with you guys. While he's not there, who's driving these cars you're working on?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Nobody was, you know, they were pretty well sitting. Well, I can't really say that. Once, while we had Rusty Wallace run it, you know, Cayuga. Cayuga, Canada. Russie ran it up there. Bill Elliott drove it down here at Jeffco, Georgia. Yeah, you know, stuff like that. Jerry. Jerry would get, you know, a couple races out of them people and, and

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

we were responsible racing as much as you wanted to, were you racing less than without?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Probably less, you know, but at the

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

same time, is that all right?

[Jimmy Fennig]

No, no, I love racing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I'm a racer, so. But, you know, at the same time, you know, we knew that Mark Martin was going to come back ASA racing for Jerry.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You knew that.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. So. And then we put that program together and moved forward.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So, Mark, I remember in 1981, I'm gonna just guess there was around 81, 82. I just moved into my dad's house at the lake and we. Me and Kelly were given custody of. Of. Of us. We were given custody to dad for mom one day. Our long story, but. So I'm in dad's lake house in the basement, and he had a TV down there, pool table, a couple other things. And Mark Martin comes over. I don't know who Mark Martin is, but Dad's, you know, I'm learning as I'm sitting around they're talking and Mark puts all these tapes in the VHS tape player, Beta. Probably back then it was a beta tape player. And we sat and watched Mark a lot of his races when he was driving to the orange and white to Beautiful, beautiful race car. And so Mark is like, here, watch. This is me at Nashville. Here what is me at Wisconsin. Here's all. And we're watching all these races and dad's just sitting there watching them and Mark's telling dad about Asa and how awesome it is. And this is around 80, 81. And then, you know, Mark would come run a race or two of his own with his own stuff, the buck stove or the, the, you know, he ran that Pontiac a couple times and, and, and we've. Everybody's pretty aware of how, how that fell apart for Mark and how Mark had to go home.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And Mark's talked about that, how he had all these deals, chassis deals, engine deals, and when he went home, he didn't have no deals anymore. Like he had to work. He had to grind it back, you know, grind from the bottom again and how he built that forward at Dylan's, that, that Miller Ford and Dylan's to go compete again. And that's. I'm assuming when you guys around the same time, you guys would get back together. So Mark is coming back. He's. He's. Things didn't work out with him at nascar and he's going to go home. And it was. Did you know Mark all that well in the, in the late 70s or

[Jimmy Fennig]

not really well, no.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So you wouldn't. You. Were you aware of this, you know, this sort of punch in the gut that he would. He, you know, he would describe it as one of the most difficult parts of his life. When he, when he came up, came down here to race, it didn't work out. He thought it was going to work out. Like, why wouldn't it work out? It didn't. When you got, when you and you and him teamed up, you know, I imagine he was desperate to, to. To get, you know, stabilize his, his racing career and, and kind of get himself back on track. Was that what was what was his demeanor? What was. What was working with Mark like?

[Jimmy Fennig]

It was. It was great. You know, I mean, we came down and Jerry Gunderman, he went. Drove for Jerry Gunnarman. Miller was our sponsor. You don't thank Bobby and Benny for putting all that stuff together. And from there on there, every day at. Jerry had a shop every day. Mark was there at 7 o' clock with us. Work on these race cars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And he was there to load them and get in the hauler and drive them to the racetrack, you know, so he was devoted to go win.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, so it was. It was a real good relationship, you know, because we both were striving to win. We do anything to them cars, you know. You know, I'll never forget, we were running Michigan for the first time. Speedway.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. With an ASA car body. Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Fiberglass body.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That always amazed me. Y' all went to Michigan to do that.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. And believe it or not, it was five star body. And he had rules. You couldn't change a car. Well, we go because they thought everything, you know, was stock from five star. Well, my brother was good at fiberglass. So what we do is cut the car up. And what do we do in speedway racing? Narrow them up so that exactly what we did for Michigan. And we blew a couple tires and the Miller people were there, so they got kind of discouraged because we were like two laps down and they left, went home. Then they read the next day that we won the race, you know. Come from two laps down.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, no kidding.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So, but I mean, it was. That's so much challenging stuff you could do back then, you know, Creativity. Creativity, you know, that's the same. Because back then, ASA was pretty strict on their rules, you know, but they. They couldn't police everything. And as a racer, you're going to keep challenging them. That's right. That's your job. You know, I'll never forget the day we're in Anderson, Indiana, and we qualified, I think, on the pole. And after you got done qualifying, you park in the middle and you back your car up like this. We end up backing up to Bob Senaker and everybody looks. And our spoiler is probably about an inch taller than his. So anyway, you know. But none was said, but we had to calm it down a little bit. But that way they were challenging us too, you know, so we're not the only people that were challenged. It was great racing. Great racing. And Mark wanted to get back and be part of that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So y' all had a lot of success and won the Winchester 400. Y' all would run some cup races together. Was this the black Ford or what car?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yes, this was a black O2. Yeah. O2, orange numbers. O2, black car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Beautiful car. We and hauled ass like it was fast.

[Jimmy Fennig]

We went to Daytona with that car. It was a banjo car. Went Daytona, narrowed everything up real nice. Went Daytona. I forgot how we did, but done all right. You know. And then the next time we says, well, let's go to Riverside with it. Oh, so now we wind it back out because we only have one car, you know, so Jerry sit there and we put in a truck and trailer and hauled it all the way out to Riverside and went out there and was running good. I don't know what happened.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

But the best part was when we. It was a two tone blue car, Jerry's trucking colors, and we went to Atlanta with it. Last race at Atlanta.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Sat on the outside, front row.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and then, oh, Robert Yates is building our motors, you know, awesome power. Awesome. And I guess Kale gave him a little bit of Kale. Yarbo gave him a little bit of hell. How come I didn't get that motor? So anyway, that was for the three races we ran. And it was a learning curve.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, because it no different. We're going into their ball field and try racing with them, you know, and.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But it was. It had to been great for Mark to kind of come back and, and get an opportunity to. To, to. To open the door again to possible cup career. Because, I mean, there was. There was a. They're hard for people to believe that there was a moment where Mark's cup career was absolutely in doubt in those early 80s. I want to step back before, before this all happened, you were convinced by Bobby Allison to take a job at Dygard in 1984. You came down here, Bobby's relationship with the team was deteriorating, and he advised you to go back home. And I have to imagine that this relationship with Bobby Allison was one on trust and respect for him to come to you and go, he wanted you down here. And then when the situation wasn't what he thought it should be and it wasn't going to be good for all of y'. All. He sort of kind of tipped you off, right to, hey, man, might want to get out of here. Go back and y' all would eventually, you know, reunite. So talk about that. Talk about the relationship with Bobby, the trust for him to come to you and say, hey man, this isn't working out. This is about to Implode. I'd get out of the way. I'd go, I'd go, take care of yourself and go get where you need to be.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, that worked out. You know what, it really, what happened there. But like you said, Bobby and the gardeners were falling out at the time. A little bit of falling out. And at that time, Robert Yates and Gary Nelson were running a place and they came up to me with a five year contract and I says to Bobby, I says, well, they want a five year contract, Bobby, what do you want me to do, you know? And Bobby says, go home. He says, go back to Wisconsin. He says, and I'll call you when I'm ready again, you know. I says, okay, Bobby, you know, I appreciate what you've done. And I went back.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No questions.

[Jimmy Fennig]

No question. No. Yeah. I mean, I respected that, man.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're a guy that's gotten down here with a five year road map in front of you. How do you not take that? A lot of people would have.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Nah, because I had the respect for Bobby Allison.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, if Bobby Ellison was getting along with these owners for some reason,

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

you know, you didn't need to be.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Why did I need to be there? Because Bobby brought me down there, you know, so if Bobby left and I'm sitting there and while this was Bobby's guy, maybe ship him out of here too. So I didn't. Sure I didn't. We all left in good terms, you know, and I, you know, got a trailer, put all my furniture and me and wife went back up to Milwaukee

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

and you went up there and you, that would be the opportunity you'd have to work. Jerry takes you right back. There's like, come on, got this deal. We're going to go some racing race with Mark.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So that went really well. You ended up finishing 11th at Dover in one of those cup races with Mark. But you would, you would return to, to full time cup racing with Bobby as a Crew Chief in 87. So two years with Mark Racing.

[Jimmy Fennig]

ASA Racing, right? Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep. Two years back home. And then Bobby calls you.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And says, hey, I'm. I told you I'd call you. Here. Here we are. I got a deal for you. You're gonna go crew chief.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He found a home at Stavola Brothers. And Billy and Mickey were super nice people. And Bobby called me up and he says, jimmy, come on back down. You know, I want you as my crew chief. And I think this was the fall of 86. And I says, okay, no problem. So I.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What'd you Tell Mark, huh? What'd you tell Mark?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, at that point, I think Mark was looking, too.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and then Mark, when I talked to Mark about it and Jerry, they says, do not turn that offer down.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Sure.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You gotta go. Okay. You know, so I got blessings from Mark and Jerry, so. And then, fortunately enough, Jack picked Mark up right after that, and everything kind of worked out the same. Or. Or maybe he was Xfinity racing before them.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Mark would go run that 31.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Red and white 31 Ford.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. For a couple years, but that's how. That's how it did. I had so much trust in Bobby, you know, So I went down there for the true story. I went down there for an interview for Stabola Brothers, and I got off the airplane because they flew me down there. I said, wow, this is big. You know, get flag commercial. So I walked down the Runway. This is before all the strict rules at the airport. I walked down the Runway, and who's standing there waiting for me at the gate? Bobby Allison.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I said, if this man sits there, wants to be out here to do that for me, I'll do anything for him. So. And that's how that turned out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you and Bobby would work together? Use the crew chief at Stavola Brothers. You also ran. Ran some more. Did y' all run. Did you and Bobby go back up north and run any ASA stuff?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Jerry. Jerry would still have a car there. You know, Bobby was still doing it. Bobby. I would get in airplanes with Bobby when they put a car together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I think Bobby race all the time.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, my God.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I. In fact, I remember now. We went up to Oswego, New York. You know, me the engine builder and Bobby Keith Allman. We went all. Went up to Swagger, New York, to run a ASA show.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I mean, Bobby's probably, I don't know, 45, 50 years old at this point, but he would be. I remember when he got hurt at Pocono, dad would fill in for a few of the obligations that he was committed to. Right. To run these races on a Friday night. He supposed to be at this racetrack to run some car on a Saturday. And, you know, in. In the neighborhood of the. You know, wherever the cup race was in the country at that point. But Bobby was racing if. If the Cup Bobby. Bobby would often book a race in the area within somewhere of that, you know, that cup race on a Friday or Saturday night at a local track. Right. Go inside autographs, run a car, drive somebody else's car, literally almost every Week. I mean, the guy was like, Kyle Larson is today.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right. A lot of people don't really know or recall or remember that about Bobby, but I mean, all the way into his late 40s, this man would race every night of the week if he could. You, you won the Daytona 500 together in 1988. And I don't know how you had that Buick hauling at all that much ass because the Buick wasn't a. The nose of the Buick wasn't pretty. It was not known for its super speedway price hours.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But you, you know, it was an amazing car. You know, and talk about what it feels like as a crew chief to build a car like that because, you know, guys like, you know, Rainier would have a car like that with, with Buddy Baker in the. In around 79, 80 called the gray Ghost. Robert Yates built a few cars like that for Dale, Jared, and you know, he had a little string of about three or four years at Daytona. You just weren't going to beat the BL and so. And Bill Elliot, you know, they had their little string in the, in the mid-80s as well. But that Buick, nobody was worried about the Buicks.

[Jimmy Fennig]

No, nobody. Not Dan.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, but y' all built the bet. Y' all had the best car there that weekend. I mean, Davey and in Robert's car, the 28, which was lights out back then.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Couldn't pass you.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What, what does it feel like when you think about that car and what it was like to put that thing together?

[Jimmy Fennig]

That thing was pretty special. Well, everything lit up back then. You could test whenever you want to go.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Test. Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So what we did with that car, you know, we went to Talladega and we tested like three days. Messing with the nose, messing with this, messing with that. Bobby was right there doing every day he was in that thing and he would participate in some of the stuff, you know, because Bobby was very sharp on race cars. So anyway, we sit there, spent three days there testing, and then I got to give a lot of credit to Keith Hallman for the horsepower he brought to the, to the racetrack. So it was a combination of everybody and it's the little stuff. That's why I keep saying it's a little stuff to make the big difference, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So stack a bunch of those little things together.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yep.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. And here's a tent there, here's a tent there, you know. So that's how that developed.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Standing in victory lane as a champion of the Daytona 500, not many people get to experience what that feels Like, I know you don't. You go on and win plenty of races in your cup careers as a crew chief, even a championship with Kurt Busch. But I always tell people, like, what I don't know of. I don't know of anything that matches what it feels like the moment the car crosses the finish line in the Daytona 500. And you know that you've won that one because it's such an elusive race, at least it has been in my family. So maybe I feel a unique way about it. But. But in terms of just sheer joy in a specific moment of time, winning the Daytona 500 is as good as it's ever gotten for me. What was that like for you when that car pulls into victory lane with Bobby behind the wheel?

[Jimmy Fennig]

No, it was. You can't believe it. It's just stunning. You know what I'm saying? You just say, oh, wow, we just did this, you know, so I thought it was, you know, for the first time doing it. I mean, we won the Firecracker the year before with Bobby. But that one there, Daytona 500, and that's the biggest one there is. And to go ahead and win, that was unbelievable.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're down there for 14 days.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And you talked about the testing. So I mean, all these things have to go right.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And then I got to sit there. I got to give Bobby credit. You know, Bobby was a wheelman and he come in. I'll never forget this last pit stop. Come in. Let's do four tires. And Jimmy knocked that spoiler down 10 degrees.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really? Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So we're sitting there with that. Back then, 10 degrees of spoiler was laid back flat.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Holy crap.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He got in a car just.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, but I mean, that's Bobby known. What. That was the good part about it. You know, kind of like your dad

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

knows what he needs back then. So that, That'll be. You'll see pictures of these cars sitting on. On pit road after qualifying. The drivers would kneel down beside them. And then there was a little window of time when NASCAR didn't regulate the angle of the rear spoiler. They would eventually come in with a 20 degree rule that would become a 40 degree rul, right 45 and so forth. But there was a time in the mid-80s where you could literally have that thing flat as you want. And what was it like? I mean, I imagine you didn't think much of it because the driver would go out there and drive it. But to lay a spoiler down flat today would be quite a thing. A crazy, you know, Thought, yeah, but back then, you know, how did you get the car to handle, say, if you were going to take the rear spoiler off a car today, like, what's, what's. How do you get the thing to stick?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, you weren't going to get it to stick with spoiler off, you know, but I mean, Bobby knew what he had, you know, not. It wasn't. We were maybe running 25 degrees and he said, put it down to 10, you know, so when you get back to that, back that far in a spoiler, the difference wasn't that much, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So. But it was, I mean, it was the right call as long as he could handle it. And he, he did, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Unbelievable. I'm, I've never, I always wondered in my mind, like what. What those cars felt like, what they drive, what they drove, like what, what Driving a car with 10 degrees of spoiler felt like going down the back straight away, as rpms rise and you're thinking about, you know, how to get it in the corner and drive it through there as fast as you can. So you worked with Bobby's, you worked with Bobby until he was injured. That was a very difficult day. Dad and Bobby were close. I was young, only about 13 at the time, but that, that had a, that was a, that was a big, big moment in, in a lot of our lives. And it had had a huge effect on my dad. I can imagine that. You know, is that whole day, is that whole experience a blur for you? Is there, Is there? You know, because I, you know, when you look at pictures of the car, you can hardly believe that Bobby could survive it.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. You know, that was a, it was a bad day, you know, I mean, I, in fact, tell you a little story. I saved that car. I put it on the roofest of all the brothers and put it away with a cover on it so nobody could see it, you know, not on the roof, outside, inside. So just in case Bobby want to see it, you know, when he got better.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, but after that happened and to see him like that, I says, wow, you know, this guy done all these things. Yeah, unbelievable things for, for me, for racing, for nascar, you know, you, you just couldn't believe it, you know, and then. Yeah, I know your dad had a good relationship with him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Bobby's road back to just a decent quality of life was a very long one. You had to go, you carried on, you know, with the race team, the race team had to carry on. There's all kinds of employees, livelihoods, at stake. How. How challenging was that for you? You know, to the last. I mean, I don't know. You know, when these type of things happen in our lives, we're not sure what we're. Where we're supposed to be or what we're supposed to do or what we want to do. Right. But I think we go back to the racetrack because that's a. That. That's something that can take our mind off of the. The pain or whatever remorse or sadness we're going through, but it's kind of where we're. I couldn't imagine. I couldn't imagine being anywhere else.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. I mean, that's the best therapy there is. You know, if you want to call it therapy. You know, that's what I call it. So you go out there and by the way, that's what Bobby would have wanted. And by the way, Bobby wants results, too, Even though he's laying in a hospital bed. You know, I. So I kind of put that in perspective and say, okay, guys, Bobby's gonna. He's gonna come through. Let's go. Let's go to work in windows form. Yeah. You know, so. And I had a lot of good team members there that, you know, that worked for me, that stayed with me and went after it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Got to work with Mike Alexander.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Who is a talent. He'd been kind of grinding through opportunities in the cup level in the 80s with Dave Marcus and a couple different teams, but never really could land a great opportunity. But this was a good opportunity for him. What was the potential for. For Mike? He would end up having some injuries of his own, some things that would kind of slow down and sideline his career. Where was the height for him? What could he have become given. Given the chance?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, Mike. Mike was a super, super nice guy. Very talented. People don't realize talented Mike was, you know, and when we put him in the car and we ran that yuri, I think he finished third at Atlanta. We had a lot of top.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Top.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Top tens, you know, not a win, but there was. You could see we could get there. Yes. And. And Mike want to get there. You know, unfortunately, as everything else, we. He goes to Pensacola on the snowball and crashes, and now he's got a brain injury.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, but as far as his talent, you know, I would. I would consider him as good as Mark Martin to this day.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well right there with him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Because when we were racing asa, he was racing all pro down south.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And those two were probably the best.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, I I'm glad you said that because I don't think a lot of people would recognize the name Mike Alexander. There's a lot of people that would. But his, he's kind of, I don't, I don't want to use the phrase what if, but there was real potential, real talent there and did when he has the injury, I mean, head injuries back then weren't as studied as they are today.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Or

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

did you write, did you realize right away that, that, that his future driving with you guys was, was, was over? Over?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Not really because, you know, after that winter, you know, he come up to the shop, we talk, you know, I see an improvement. I could see a little difference in his speech, you know, but he says, I'm going to be all right, I'm going to be all right, you know, so you got to take his word, you know, and next thing I know, no, that's not going to make it, you know, so then he realized he wasn't going to make it either.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, he would eventually find himself back behind the wheel of a race car. And I mean, I think even as recent as four or five years ago, he's running a car over at Nashville or something, doing something, having some fun. So he, he got to continue to drive race cars, just not at the cup level. This would give you guys the opportunity to work with Dick Trickle, the 55 year old rookie. You know, you knew Dick really well from the ASA days. Dick was celebrated like him coming into the Cup Series. I know he'd had opportunities in the 70s and some one offs here and there and some different things, but for whatever reason and maybe his own choosing, he was, he was dominant up north in the ASA ranks and, but he was presented with this opportunity to come down and drive your car. How did that come together? Why Dick Trickle?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, because I knew him from back then and then we had a meeting about it with the Stavallo brothers, you know, and I says, well, why don't we give Dick a call, you know, because I knew how good Dick was, you know, you don't win all those races by not being good. So, so we gave him a call and he accepted the offer to come down and, you know, drive the car. I think our first race was Rockingham and I'll never forget this one because old Dick was from the north, you know, and Dick always wore cowboy boots. So he got there and I had a set of driving shoes for him because I know the interior of these cars are hotter than them as hay cars, you know, I said, Dick, you're going to need to take these boots off and put these Simpson shoes on, you know. And he says, no, I'm going to be all right. I'm going to be all right. And I says to him, I said, okay. So I think halfway during the race, hey, I had a yellow. He says, I need them shoes. So I said, okay. Four tires and a set of shoes, guys. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did he have a cigarette lighter in your car?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah, he put it in there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He did?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Now, so let me ask you this. When he comes into the shop and he's putting a cigarette lighter in the car, what is it? What is. What are you guys thinking? I'm sure you probably knew it was coming.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He knew it was coming because that's all he did, you know, I mean, it's coffee and cigarettes, you know, so.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But you have to explain it to the other boys. On the shop. Yeah, on the shop floor.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Just bear with it, you know, this is him, you know, and then I'll never forget to stay there. The guys kind of got mad at. When we were at Dover running, and yellow flag comes out, and Dover pit road, you know, is hard to get to. And evidently he committed. Admitted this, you know, to me. But on the yellow flag coming in the pits, he crashed in the pit road. I said, what were you doing? You know, lighting up a cigarette, you know, because he missed it under yellow. Yeah. You know, I couldn't believe it. I said, okay, Dick.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He wouldn't admit it or he did.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He didn't admit it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

No.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You think that's what happened?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah. Because he was too quiet.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Too quiet. And Dick was a super person, you

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

know, I got to know him better. I got really lucky to get to know him better when he goes to drive for kale into 66 tripartic car. I was friends with the crew chief's son. I'd be up in the hauler lounge with my buddy. As soon as I got to the racetrack, I'd go looking for my friends, Brad, Means Jimmy's son. And we'd go up in there, and Dick would come up in the lounge. When he'd get to the track, he'd come up in there and throw his briefcase down. In his briefcase, he'd have a pair of underwear and some Reese cups and a pack of cigarettes or a carton of cigarettes. There's nothing else in it. I'm like, he's going to open up his briefcase, there'll be notes and money and this. That's none of that. But and he was, he, he was always so nice. Like we're, we're this, we're 15, 14 year old punk kids doing. We got, we're not working, we're not showing any initiative. We're just in the way. And he was never, he was never like, get out of here. What are y' all doing in here? He was just. As soon as he come in there, he'd start talking to you, asking you questions. And I always thought that was awesome. Yeah, because, you know, he looked like he was a, a very grizzly old, you know, tough, you know, God, seen it and done it all. Didn't have no time for no, you didn't have no patience for no kids running around. But. And then later in life he would come to a couple of our charity events and stuff and always super, super cool. You would go work with Bobby Allison's team. He would, Bobby would start his own team.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Bobby started his own team. Yep.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was something I thought was interesting. And I didn't recall that part of your career because, I mean, you've been around this deal a long time, right? You come to the cup stuff in the 80s. A lot of us people in the industry and fans of the industry absolutely know all the things you did with Mark and Kurt and all the things that would happen. There's this sort of space in time where, where there's, you know, you spent seven years, six years working on Bobby's team when Bobby, Bobby is now, you know, healed as much as he possibly can be. He's not going to race cars again, but he's going to have a race team and he's going to try his ass off to make sure it's functioning. And there were some good years when that car had real speed. But it had to have been a challenge putting deals. You know, he had a lot of deals that come together. The Ray Bessis deal was, seemed to be a decent one at least the car had really relatively solid speed. And then, and then during, during that period of time. But there was also a lot of challenges. You know, you had a lot of different drivers. I'm gonna list Mike Alexander, Jeff Purvis, Hut Strickland Spencer, Chuck Bound, Tim Steele, Derek Cope. Some interesting names.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, A lot of different drivers, you know, it was challenging. In fact, we had to build the team up. We had to start the team, put it that way. And Bobby's brother in law, Tom Kincaid, was a lawyer and he more or less built, you know, started the deal up, you know, and we actually rented space by Norman Degree Yes. And built cars. We started there building race cars for the cup program, you know, and then finally, Frank Plessinger and Nathan Sims.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Nathan.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, Nathan built that building that Bobby's in.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yep.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And built your dad, too. But they were all good friends of Bobby's and want to see something happen for Bobby, you know, so they put. We put it all together, me and Keith Allman. Keith Almond was a big part of, you know, Bob Allison Motorsports. He was a head engine builder. And we laid out the building with Nathan, showed him where we wanted stuff, how we want the flow, everything else. And Nathan put it all together and started racing then. And I think Hut Strickland was our first driver that we had in the car and ran with hut for a few years, and things didn't really work out or I don't know what happened there, but we went. Moved on to a few other drivers, and at times, it was kind of a struggle because financially, you know, you got to have sponsorship to run the run good, to get the right parts, the right people to this day and age, you know, so. And we're not really struggling, but we were not. Not like Rick Hendricks, you know, stuff like that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Financially.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Financially was tough.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

But we made it work, you know, I mean, the guys. Everybody there worked hard. I mean, get them on one race, we have two sets of brake calipers. We rebuild them, get them on the car for the next race, you know, stuff like that. But it was challenging. It was fun. It was. We were trying to win. And I always told the guys, let's go this week and win this race. No matter what driver was in that car. That was my motto. I don't care what steering beholder was it?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Let's go win this race. This is what we're here to do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And sometimes we're good. You know, Spencer, he was good. You know, he does. All of them were good. You know, we had some good runs, bad runs, but it was good. It was good. And we tried building up the best we could. Yeah, you know, the funny. Not a funny part, but it's. Some people don't know. I know we're in Martinsville testing. Back then, we could test a lot, you know, so we took Hud Strickland up there, testing with Ronnie Hopkins. We were doing some Ackerman stuff, you know, and Bobby was up there, and next thing I seen, I was standing next to Bobby, and I said, what do you think, Bobby? He takes his wallet out of his back pocket, puts it in the toolbox, and says, hut. Bobby Jumped in.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No kidding.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. After he's heard.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And he went around her I don't know how many times, you know, he got within a couple tenths of hut. You know what I mean? But I was, I was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I never heard that.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Never heard. No. A lot of people don't know that one, you know, but, you know, that's his desire to get back in there. And he got back in and he ran, ran, ran, you know. And I says, man, what a feeling that is.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

To watch that man get back in the race car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Even though it wasn't the smartest move on my part by let him in. But he owned the company, he owns the cars. Bobby knew he's going to do what he's going to do. But that was, that was a good story to everybody know that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He still had to drive back then.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I was going to ask you, what, what was it like? You know, is Bobby the owner right now? He's out of the car. And I think as owners, drivers have less patience. Right. But Bobby, I mean, obviously knows the, the challenges y' all are up against as the owner of the team. You know what, given the right opportunity, you know, what do you think that that deal could have turned into?

[Jimmy Fennig]

I think pretty good, you know, because we had. The facility was awesome. You know, everything was flowed out. Right. We had good people building cars. Steve Levitt come over there and help build cars. You know, Stevie did, and we hung good bodies, you know, probably needed some more factory support, you know, as far as wind tunnels and stuff like that. But otherwise it all depends what you get, you know, and how you use it. So. But unfortunately you stayed there to the very end. To the very end. And Bobby, you know, kind of twist down there where don't have enough money anymore. And so we parted ways.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, the, the. That would present the opportunity to put you where you are today. Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was quite a 1997. You'd go work for Rouse Racing.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, it was a fall of 96 Rockingham, and I had my interview with Jackson in Mark's. Mark's hauler. So Jack interviewed me because Mark pushed it. Mark wanted. Mark wanted a change or something and he wanted me down there to help him, you know, run the. Run his program. So. And Steve did an awesome job. Steve Meal, you know, putting everything together. Did awesome job. And Mark just wanted a different change or a different look at stuff. So I interviewed with Jack and that went okay. You know, I just. Jack's a different person.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, yeah, he is.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and I Sit there with Jack. I says, okay, you know, I didn't have a job then, you know, I was out of work for a couple weeks or whatever, so I said, okay, I'll take it, you know. And then it was up in Liberty then. So night fall of 96 and all of 97, I drive back and forth from Liberty to. I used to live by the speedway there and dang, yeah, it's hour 45 one way. But anyway, did that and then that was a great opportunity that Jack gave me and there ain't many gave me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There are not many people, if any, in the industry today that would drive an hour and 45 minutes one way for a job.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, not nowadays. Things have changed.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They have.

[Jimmy Fennig]

They have changed. So. But that's the drive you had to have back then.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You, you'd work with mark, you get four wins in 97 and you'd have this really solid, you know, several years runner up in points. Seven wins in 98, twice in 99, third in points. You have your final win together in 2000 and then you would get moved to Kirch Carr in 2002. Why. Why make the change?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Well, we were doing good, you know, I mean, 98 was our best year, I think, you know, as far as wins and finishes. But throughout the rest of the years, you know, we'd keep. I'd keep working on an arrow, working, you know, setups, trying to get it better and better, better. But we weren't moving the needle, if that makes sense. So what they Mark wanted to do, he probably figured, well, let's make a change here and see if we can spark a new life here, you know, and see what the next crew chief can. Did. Yeah, no different than when Steve. I replaced Steve Meal. You know, let's. Mark wanted to change here, so Mark wanted this change. And fortunately, I didn't know it was going to play out on, but Jeff Burton kind of says, hey, why don't you put Jimmy with Kurt? Yeah. And I. Kurt.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Kurt was relatively. I mean, he's in like his, his. He just moved into the.

[Jimmy Fennig]

He just moved in.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You gotta. What were your thoughts about, you know, going to a. You had been with veterans your entire life for the most part, right? Even Dick Trickle, when his first career. First career season in the Cup Series was in his 50s. But, you know, you got a young guy in Kurt. And we would all. Well, I'll, you know, curse a hall of Famer. We all would. Would learn what Kurt would become and what kind of driver he was. But coming into a deal With a rookie driver where you. I guess you're kind of like, yeah, let's go for it.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. I mean, the thing about Kurt, I seen the speed he'd get out of a race car, you know, and I seen that probably the year before I did it full time for him, and he kind of missed the show at Atlanta because he didn't, you know, he goofed up qualifying, and then he got mad, went home. I says, okay, now what am I dealing with, you know, for the next year? But I admired what he got out of a race car for speed, you know, and then when I started working with him, talking with him and meeting him, you know, because previous that, I know he worked for Jack, but we didn't really talk to each other. Yeah. You know, like we did when we worked full time together, you know, so it was. It was good. And I respected what his visions were, where he went to go and how fast he went to get there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Where you. You were with him when he was running into Spencer and having all this going on. What were you. What were you. What was your advice to him during that period of time? You know, were you. Did you. You know, he. Kurt's his own man, right? Could make his own choices. But where. Where. What kind of a. Were you? Literally just a crew chief. I'm gonna work on the car. I'm gonna tell you what we're gonna do with the race car, what the plan is for the weekend. Or were you also with this young guy who's a little misguided at times? Were you giving advice?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Telling him, hey, dude, get together maybe.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I think I would try helping him out personally, because his. He would blow up on everything, you know, and then I would have to say, you gotta calm down. You know, it's gonna get better. This ain't a bad day. You know, let's keep working on it. In fact, me and him both went to sports psychologist. You know, I even went with him, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. And. But, you know, he started listening. But, you know, Kurt was Kurt, you know, I never Forget Daytona was 500. Whatever. I had to key him off the radio because he was swearing too much.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And David Hoots kept putting us laps down when sitting on pit road, you know, so I just keyed the radio so nobody could hear him. But, you know, I know he got mad at me for that, but, hey, this is reality. Yeah. So. But he turned off.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Kurt's a pleasant person once you get to know him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know what I mean?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And there's no pressure on him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. You know, so, yeah, I mean, I think the Kurt we know today is not the same guy that, you know, you were working with 2002. The, you know, have a lot of success with him and eventually win a championship. You know, I. Everybody remembers the wheel coming off at just the right time and Kurt making an incredible move to get to pit road. Yeah. In. In a. In a moment, saving the day. You know, y' all had a lot of speed that year. And curtain. You did everything you needed to do to get the points needed to win that championship.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And so, you know, obviously you've had to so much success over. Over your life. You got to do all these great things with Bobby and, And Mark and, And, you know, built. Built Bobby's race team from the ground up where it is. Winning that title with Kurt Rank and in all the things that you've. You've been able to accomplish, it's.

[Jimmy Fennig]

It's right up there with everything, you know, I mean, that's what we strive for. Like, I keep saying, we're there to win, you know, then. To win a. Then win a championship in that. The highest level of sports racing there is. I just. Wow. This is pretty special.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, it kind of. You had. If I. If I can say you. You had a ton of respect in the garage from the industry. I. I was a witness to it. When in that championship is kind of like the. The final. You know, outside of a Hall of Fame nomination. I mean, winning the championship, you're a championship crew chief. Just because your effort and inability on the racetrack and the success you're having, but actually go out there and. And win that title and hold that trophy, it puts you in another elite category with other people that you may admire. So I always thought that was. That was pretty interesting. I mean, I had heard the stories about how you had kind of been recruited by Bobby to get up here, and then you worked with Mark and won all those races and, and got with Kurt, and Kurt was successful and. But it. And now. And all of those things are amazing. But that title really kind of like it's a period at the end of the sentence.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, that, that, that championship win is something you'll never forget, you know? You know, I'll never forget when we won it at the racetrack. It didn't sink into me. You know, I said, okay, guys, let's get this thing through tech. Let's get it loaded. You know, we got to work tomorrow. You know, and then I got thinking, okay, wait a minute, let's Enjoy this a little bit, you know, for the guys, you know, but the biggest thing I enjoyed was going to New York, Going. Going to the White House.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, all the.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All the perks.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You get the.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yes. And I said, wow, this is special that I would have never. Never been able to do without winning this championship.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So all the hard work kind of paid off, you know, so. And it's. It's just. It was my year to win it or whatever. You know, Jack told me the year before, after Matt Kinson won his. He says, all right, next year, you got to win it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And sure enough, we want it. You know, y'.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All. You know, you'd continue to work with Kurt until 06. You'd get paired up with Jamie McMurray, and you'd work with him for a while. You were promoted to head of Roush Racing's Busch Series program. So you were multitasking, right, as crew chief still, because you would be David Reagan's crew Chief on the 6 car in 07. Matt's crew chief in 2010. You won three races with him. You worked with Carl Edwards. You would eventually retire in 2014.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I had the privilege of working with all these talented race car drivers. You know, it was just amazing that I got to work with them all, you know?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Fact. Every one of them. Every one of them are. That I worked with are. Five of them are in the hall of fame, you know, So I thought that was a very big privilege to work with people like that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're 72 years old, and when you retired, I will say, if I can do the Math, you were 60. Why? This is. I mean, I'm a guy who just got as much of a reward from being on top of a pit box or building a race car as driving one. How difficult was it to make that choice? Because it's easy to say at the end of the season when you're standing there at the final race and you are worn down to the nub to go, yeah, I could take a little time off. That would be nice. But, you know, when they crank those cars up in Daytona and you're not there, that is a hard thing to reckon with. Right. How was that experience for you? I know you continue. You had a role in the program. You had a role in the operation. You were still an asset to the team. You were still there, needed. You found a niche. But you're not. You're not the crew chief anymore. Like, you're. Did you miss the competition? Did you miss the process of leading the team or building the cars, Preparing the cars.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah, I missed the process of leading the team, you know, because back then, after I, after I stepped off the box, I still was involved, you know, in fact, I was pretty much involved with the speedway program, you know, and I continue on that program there and. But I was involved hands on. But it took me about six months to say, okay, I don't miss the box anymore.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, and then as the years progress from there, well, if I'm not at the racetrack, I don't really miss it, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So. Because what I see right now with technology way it is changed completely. Oh, my God. I can sit on. I could sit on my chair at home and I got four computers in front of me that I watch everything on Sunday. Yeah, everything, you know, smt. Everything. And I can, I, I see more there than I could see at the racetrack.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So that's, that's the way I feel it. I'm still involved on Sundays seeing what the guys doing where they're getting beat, you know, stuff like that. Yeah. So.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Well, you've. You became the executive vice President of Competition 2020. As you mentioned, you're in special projects, Inducted into Eastern Wisconsin Short Track hall of fame in 2024. It's been quite the career. And honestly, man, sitting here in front of you, you seem like you're in really, really good health. Good, solid, solid, sharp mind. At 72 years old, you know, you're still, you're still adding to something. You're still an asset, a piece, a part of something. What's. How, how far do you take it?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Me, I like to keep going. Yeah. You know what I mean?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There's no beach that you want to go sit on?

[Jimmy Fennig]

No, not a beach.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Retired life.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I, if I do retire.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Right now I play. I, I a little bit golf. A little golf. And I build my own hot rods.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, I got a collection of hot rods that I've been building over the years and I build them myself.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What's the current project?

[Jimmy Fennig]

68 Dodge Charger.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay. Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. RT yeah, yeah. But I've got. And I never sold them. They're sitting in my garage.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, you build them and just park them.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You never drive them.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No kidding. Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

In fact, I even got. It's quite an honor to get this from Edsel. Ford was winning championship. I got a 2006 GT40 in my garage.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jimmy Fennig]

With 74 miles. I never drove it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow.

[Jimmy Fennig]

In 2006, I took it home and parked it you know?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

So. But that's what I enjoy, you know, when I'm not involved, you know, thinking about. About the next move here, next move there, you know?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You ever get out to a short track?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Nah. Yeah, nah, I gotta. I usually don't get out, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah,

[Jimmy Fennig]

it's. It's a different atmosphere now than when it used to be, if that makes sense. You know, there's different people running now. There's. And like I say with technology is I see more at home.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

And I can't see well, I mean,

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

like a local short track or.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, like Hickory or something.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Like get out to a. Something that would remind you of where you were in the. In the. In the early 80s or the. Or the 70s.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

An experience like that.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I don't know. One day I'm gonna take a trip back up to the Slinger for the Slinger nationals, you know what I mean?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So you really should.

[Jimmy Fennig]

But. Because I enjoyed that, you know, going up there and seeing all the guys.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're gonna see all the same people.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. They'll just be a lot older and A lot older. Yeah. They'll have families running around. Well. Well, I've enjoyed this talk, man. You know, I've always admired you and. And it's funny, man. Me and you never really talked that much at the racetrack. I was kind of always intimidated by you, to be honest with you.

[Jimmy Fennig]

I usually don't talk much.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know you don't. You don't, you know, But I mean, you were just about your job and you really were, only you were. Did you. I mean, outside of your own team, who were your friends? Who. What other drivers did you have people that you. You admired or had conversations with? Did you have much relationship with dad outside of just going to that race with him and.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Oh, yeah, your dad was. He tried hiring me one time.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really?

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yeah. When are you gonna come work for me? I said, well, I'm pretty happy with Jack right now, you know, so that was good. But, you know, I'm Ray Everham. When I was at Bobby Ellison Motorsports, you know, right there by the speedway, Ray would stop at night because I always work day and night, you know, he would stop in and we'd hang out together, and that's when he was first coming from Iraq into the deal. And I would not help him. I kind of show him areas I was working on, you know, so. But I consider. Ray was a pretty good friend. Mike Beam was a good friend of mine, you know, so. But it was all good, you know? I was just. I kind of stayed in my own world, you know, because I focus on my own stuff.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, I don't care what you have, you have or you have have. I'm gonna have something better. Yeah, that was my mind thought.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jimmy Fennig]

You know, so that's the way it worked out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, it worked out pretty good. You won a ton of races, had a very successful career, championship winning crew chief and. And man got to work with some very, very fascinating personalities.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Yes. Yeah, very fortunate. I'm working with all them talented race car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Absolutely. Well, I appreciate you giving us some time today. Okay. Thank you.

[Jimmy Fennig]

Appreciate it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right. Jimmy Finney on the Dale Jr. Download. So Jimmy was. Was a lot of fun to talk to. I, you know, I didn't know what to expect. I kind of thought I knew what his personality was like just being around him in the garage. He just seemed to always be a super serious guy, super quiet, not really a jokester or one. You know, a lot of the guys in the garage in a couple days in the 90s and 2000s, a lot of, you know, in between work, it was always a lot of goofing around. Everybody picking and prodding and being goof goofballs. Not this guy. He was all about his job and going fast and man, to hear that dad tried to hire him on time. That would have been a thing to see them to work together. They'd have probably won a good chunk of races had they had the opportunity. And he seemed like he could go anywhere and get to victory lane, you know, of course he got to drive, he got to work with a lot of very talented drivers. Long list. But he shared success with all of them. So thankful to he thankful that he gave some time today. I wanted to, you know, get him on the show, check that box and tell him how much I appreciated him and respected him. And I hope you all enjoyed the conversation. 72 years old, 2004 NASCAR Cup Series champion. Crew chief. 40 time winning crew chief at the cup level. Who knows how many races he won in the ASA ranks and the short tracks as a crew chief, but pretty outstanding. Hope you enjoyed the show. Thank you for joining us today in the Arby studio. It's always great to have you all on board for the guest segments. Don't forget about Arby's new meet in three box. You get more meal for your money at Arby's. Arby's, we have the meats. We'll see you tomorrow. Check out dirty mo media on instagram, facebook x and TikTok.