Legitimate Champions, Playoff Formats & Bandwagons

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download

Episode: Legitimate Champions, Playoff Formats & Bandwagons
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. & Dirty Mo Media Crew
Date: September 12, 2025

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Overview

This episode dives deep into the legitimacy of NASCAR champions in the current playoff format, dissecting which drivers truly “deserve” a title, how the playoff structure impacts outcomes, and whether consistent performance is properly rewarded. There’s lively debate around Denny Hamlin, Joey Logano, and “playing the game” of modern NASCAR. The show also explores fan bandwagons, the complexities of balancing fan excitement with fair competition, and features a moving interview with David Reutimann about his career and personal health battles.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Is Denny Hamlin the Best Driver Without a Title? (00:00–03:54)

• Dale and crew praise Denny Hamlin’s consistent excellence:
  “Every year we say, man, this is his best shot... maybe for the first time that he's the best car in the field at this point.” (Dale Jr., 01:19)
• Denny is always among the top drivers, but hasn't gotten his elusive championship.
• Travis remarks: “He's definitely the most consistent right now.” (02:19)
• Consensus: Hamlin “deserves” a title, but the current playoff format complicates things.

2. Does the Playoff Format Reward the Right Champion? (03:54–08:45)

• Dale argues: “This format doesn't favor or lend itself to anybody. This format is more about being great on one singular day, you know, the rest of the season be damned.” (Dale Jr., 03:20)
• Travis counters that Logano thrives in this system, liking the underdog/chaos aspect, but Dale expresses skepticism:
  “I have a hard time buying in to this idea that there is anybody... that actually can be better at this format than someone else.” (03:25)
• Example: Joey Logano benefiting from points resets, crew chief strategies, and luck (like other drivers being disqualified).
• Key Dale Jr. quote: “It's easy to thrive when somebody gives you 150 points.” (04:21)
• On strategy vs. luck:
  “Nobody's going into Vegas going, we're going to run 14th all day and then win on fuel mileage.” (Dale Jr., 06:37)
• The group acknowledges team strategy (especially from crew chief Paul Wolfe) can tip the scale, but luck remains a big factor.

3. Are Playoff Champions Always Legitimate? (11:34–13:09)

• Discussion on Corey Heim and Connor Zillich dominating their respective divisions but possibly losing championships due to playoff flukes:
  • “The problem... is they are clearly the best cars, best teams... but that's not this format.” (Tommy, 11:57)
  • “If neither of them win the championship, it's going to be another... talking point of here's why we need to change the playoff format.” (Jordan Bianchi, 12:17)
• Austin Cindric weighs in: Dominance across a season doesn’t guarantee a championship in the modern playoff system, which prioritizes winning at key times.
  • “What sets Conor apart [is] the win total... but the playoff format is exciting for those who understand it... any changes in the future... [should be] simplifying in order for more to understand and appreciate.” (Cindric, 14:14)

4. How Should the Playoff System Evolve? (13:09–18:17)

• Tommy and the crew discuss trade-offs between a season-long points championship and playoff drama.
• Cindric expresses that simplicity and clarity matter most:
  “If there's anything to refine, it's a simplification to help our race fans and maybe our casual fans be more on board with what's on the line and what's at stake.” (Cindric, 14:44)
• Hypothetical: Would a four-race championship round make things fairer?
  • “What’s fair for the drivers and competitors is never going to be what’s best for the fans.” (Cindric, 16:58)
• Most agree a full season-long format is “never going to happen” again (Tommy, 18:17).

5. Fan Bandwagons & Denny Hamlin’s Rallying Cry (22:13–27:36)

• Post-race, Denny Hamlin encouraged fans to "jump on the 11 car bandwagon," meaning they'll see more wins if they root for him, not promising a guaranteed championship.
  • “Jump on the 11 car bandwagon because you're going to win more than you're going to try.” (Ryan Ellis, 22:37)
  • “I want to win races... I like to under promise and over deliver when it comes to that.” (Ryan Ellis, 22:41)
• Debate over whether fans want to “hop on a train” if the end destination isn’t a championship.
  • “The fans want to hop on this train, but they want clarification the train is going to Phoenix.” (Dale Jr., 25:37)
  • “What does it matter where you're going? When you jump on a party bus, who gives a [bleep] where the end destination is?” (Ryan Ellis, 25:53)
• Banter over boos vs. cheers:
  • “The bulk of them are not fans of mine... I just love ruining their day.” (Ryan Ellis, 24:32)
• Ultimately, Dale notes if Hamlin wins more races, he'll be seen as a deserving champion regardless of the final outcome.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Dale Jr. (03:20): “This format is more about being great on one singular day, you know, the rest of the season be damned.”
• Travis (04:24): “This system aids... it definitely aids guys like that,” referencing drivers who capitalize on playoff resets.
• Austin Cindric (14:44): “If there's anything to refine, it's a simplification to help our race fans and maybe our casual fans be more on board with what's on the line and what's at stake.”
• Ryan Ellis (22:41): “I want to win races... I like to under promise and over deliver when it comes to that.”
• Dale Jr. (25:37): “The fans want to hop on this train, but they want clarification the train is going to Phoenix.”
• Ryan Ellis (27:03): “I just want to win races and beat the [expletive] out of everyone else every chance I get... They're going to fix this playoff format for next year... then let's talk about legitimacy.”

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Extended Interview: David Reutimann’s Reflections (28:17–36:02)

• Reutimann talks about the pride (and unexpected pressure) of winning in NASCAR:
  • “Why can't I win all the time? The car was just so good.” (Reutimann, 29:11)
  • On not watching racing after retirement: “It's just self-preservation, I guess, really. If you're a drug addict, you want to get clean, you don't hang around with people who do drugs. That's kind of the same thing.” (Reutimann, 30:44)
• He opens up about health issues post-retirement:
  • Undergoing brain surgery for a benign tumor, which impacted hearing and motor functions.
  • “I'm not coordinated. I have no balance. I walk around like I'm drunk... It's really, really easy to get down on yourself.” (Reutimann, 35:20)
  • On coping: “You just kind of have to adjust to the new norm, I guess.” (36:02)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:19 – Discussion of Denny Hamlin’s legacy and skill
• 03:20 – Argument about whether anyone excels at the playoff format
• 07:07 – Team strategy, luck vs. skill in the playoffs
• 11:34 – Talking about “legitimate” champions, Corey Heim, Connor Zillich
• 14:44 – Cindric on format clarity/simplification
• 16:58 – Balancing fairness for drivers vs. excitement for fans
• 22:37 – Denny Hamlin’s “bandwagon” speech and reactions
• 25:37 – Fan expectations and the journey vs. the destination
• 27:03 – Ryan Ellis on race wins vs. playoff legitimacy
• 29:01 – David Reutimann on winning and looking back at his career
• 30:44 – Reasons for not following NASCAR post-retirement
• 31:19 – Reutimann’s health battles and recovery
• 35:20 – Emotional challenges post-surgery

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Tone & Style

• Candid, conversational, and often humorous: The group drops insider knowledge, playful jabs, and genuine reflections.
• Direct and unfiltered: Dale Jr. and guests are honest about what they dislike in the current system and don't shy away from controversy.
• Grounded in racer and fan perspectives: Commentary shifts naturally between what’s “fair,” what’s “entertaining,” and what it means for legacies.

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Takeaways

• NASCAR’s playoff format continues to fuel fierce debate about what makes a “legitimate” champion.
• Strategy, luck, and crew chief calls play a bigger role than ever—and some see that as at odds with how racing “should” decide a champion.
• Despite frustrations, the format delivers drama and unpredictability that keeps fans talking, even if it sometimes leaves season-long greatness unrewarded.
• The episode closes with a reminder that behind every racer’s stats is a human story—one of pride, struggle, and personal evolution.

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For more highlights, listen to the full episode of The Dale Jr. Download on Dirty Mo Media.

Transcript

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Travis]

Most consistent.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I mean, when we go to the racetrack and we've got to do this manufacturer parlay or we got to think about who's going to be good. Denny's always one of the top three drivers. Every. He's always the top Toyota. It's just impressive.

[Travis]

He's definitely the most consistent right now.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, can they, can they finally get the Phoenix and get the job done? He deserves to win a championship. He deserves to, to know what that feels like. Yeah. All the things that he, all the, all the wins, all the trophies in the house, all the things that he has in his memory of his career, He, He. He deserves to have a trophy.

[Travis]

I just think this format. But he goes against Danny for that, for the championship.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

This format goes against everybody.

[Travis]

Yeah, well, I mean, Denny is a consistent. He's a consistent. If you give Danny four races, he's going to be a threat because he knows how to put all four of them together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

This, this format goes. This format doesn't favor or lend itself to anybody.

[Travis]

Now, I disagree. I think it. I think it's definitely fits Logano better. He loves this type of form. He loves being the underdog. He loves coming in there and ruining these things for guys.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know, but you got to have the car and the ability on that given day to be able to go do it.

[Travis]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where is that during the regular season when. When you need to win races and be great? I mean, it doesn't seem to. He doesn't. It's this. It. I have a hard time buying in to this idea that there is anybody in the walking breathing on this earth that actually can be better at this format than someone else. This format is more about being great on one singular day, you know, be the rest of the season be damned. And.

[Travis]

Well, that's what I'm saying. I'm looking at these points right now.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, he was. He happened to have the good car that day at Phoenix. Yeah.

[Travis]

When Joey's only 21 above the cut line. I mean, Denny, you know what I mean?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Like, what about that?

[Travis]

But if you put him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where was he before this weekend? Or where was he when the playoffs were, when the regular season ended?

[Travis]

Not very high.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Probably 200 out. Yeah.

[Travis]

Way back.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So he just got handed 150 points.

[Travis]

I know that. But this is where he starts to thrive in this situation.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, it's easy to thrive when somebody gives you 150 points.

[Travis]

I'm not disagreeing with that. But this, this system aids. It definitely aids guys like that. Like he, he.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I think you got to credit Joey's crew chief. Oh.

[Travis]

Strategy and what Joey. He's put in situations that he has to step up and make it work too. And he does.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, yeah. I mean, they do fuel mileage things and different. You know, but there they did the fuel mileage. I don't want to be wrong here, but this year or last year, they did. Remember Vegas? They won it.

[Travis]

Oh, yeah. Pushing him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was he even good that day?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I think it was mostly off a strategy.

[Travis]

Yeah, he was average.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Running so average that he just could do the fuel mileage.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

It was Bell's race to win, to lose, really.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And So, I mean, it's like. I don't know, man. Tough.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I know it is to TJ's point, I think, where Logano and I think Penske favors in the format. And again, it's kind of the top.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Point after Roval was that plan. Was that his plan to get back into the playoffs through a dq?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Obviously not.

[Travis]

I mean, but he still got in.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, well, man, it's. He's so good at this. Well, what are we talking about?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

But hold on.

[Travis]

But that guy won the championship. The guy that was out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No, but he was out before the 48 guard got disqualified.

[Travis]

That doesn't matter though.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So, I mean, he's. You can't tell me that, man. He's. He's the one that knows how to do this better than anybody else because he was out in the. If the 48 doesn't fail tech £5 light or whatever the hell it was because he run over the curb and threw the. Off his car.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah. You know, I don't disagree. Yeah, I mean, I think what favors Joey is the format and the schedule.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It's.

[Jordan Bianchi]

It's like.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I can't say it. Look, dude, he's a champion. Joey Logano is a champion. He is a badass race car driver. But literally, this. You can't tell me that. This. You can't tell me that there's a strategy to.

[Travis]

No, this is not your strategy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No.

[Travis]

You don't hope a guy gets thrown out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Nobody. Yeah, no. And nobody's going into Vegas going, we're going to run 14th all day and then I'm on fuel mileage, you know.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Right.

[Travis]

Didn't Denny make that? I see a clip where Denny said he. He was a better driver than the three time champion.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did he?

[Travis]

Did I see that? Yeah. Which I thought. I'm surprised that wasn't in the show.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

A little big.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Couldn't you say Logano and Penske could be better than other teams when given the circumstance like he wins at Vegas. They have.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They weren't better than other teams. They just happened to be running poor enough to do the fuel mileage. If he was really good, let me say this. If he was great, Right. And running in the top three or top two all day, they would have never considered the fuel mileage possibly. Right. It's possible they would have never considered the field mileage and someone else would have leapfrogged or beat them with that same strategy.

[Travis]

That's a back half top 10 move probably to try to win a race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And so I don't disagree. There yeah. And he runs poorly enough to be actually eliminated at the Roval. So, I mean, what do we. What do y'. All.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

What I'm saying, when Penske is given the circumstance of, like, okay, he happens to win at Vegas by luck or skill, whatever, are they better than other teams when it comes to. Okay, we. We can ignore the next two races. We can focus on Phoenix. I think Penske does a good job of, like, playing the game of the playoffs.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't think it's a pinsky. I mean, give. I give Penske all the credit. It's Paul.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It's Mr. Wolf.

[Travis]

Making them strategy calls. Oh, Paul's great. Yeah, he is. Yeah, Paul's great.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Brad's crew chief. Yeah. When he won a championship, I worked with him.

[Travis]

With Joey as well. Yeah, Paul's great. Yeah, he. You always have a shot with Paul.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Travis]

Like, off the wall, you know, kind of. And sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. I'm sure at the Roval. I don't remember how the race went. I'm sure at the Roval, Paul tried something at some point to get some track position. You know what I mean? He wasn't just, all right, we're gonna run here all day. Like, he tried. Like, they're good. Like, Paul's really good. He's really creative. But I think that fits with Joey's driving style in these situations because he can.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Look, Joey's a great race car driver. And if you tell. If Paul says, joey, I'm gonna put you out here in front of these guys on old tires. And our only shot is to hold him off. Joey is going to give it all he's got.

[Travis]

Is Denny better than Joey?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Depends on the track, the race, the day car.

[Travis]

There's a. I mean, I honestly feel like they're equal.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They're pretty equal. I mean, you're splitting hairs. Yeah. At that point between who's better than.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Who guys fall is here, Travis. You know, the beers are colder. Football is back. I know you got to be excited about.

[Andrew]

That is my favorite time of the year. A little crisp in the year you crack that cold beer open, it's. Oh, I love it. It is the best.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

That's right. But if you're still rocking, you know, the old beat up boxers under those flannels and jeans, you know, we gotta talk.

[Andrew]

It's time to upgrade to me undies. These things are ridiculously soft. They're perfect. Whether you're just going to be hanging around watching football games on the couch all day or you're going out, tailgating, going to the games. It doesn't matter. Me undies is perfect.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, Travis. I mean, they're made with a fabric that feels like a cloud, but they still breathe. You know, when things heat up and you know they've got legit stretch. Whether you're crushing wings on the couch, tossing the pig skin around, I mean, you're covered.

[Andrew]

That's what's important to me is I think people have seen what I'm like at a football game. I'm up and down, I'm crouching, I'm jumping. I. I can't be having my underwear riding me like that. And meundies not an issue.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I'll tell you what, this is my favorite underwear to wear at the track. And I know that might sound strange, but when you're walking around the track, it's a long day, you're sweating, it's hot. It is like the perfect, most comfortable thing to wear.

[Andrew]

Yeah. You're on pit road, you got your audio belt on. You're trying to get to your next interview or the driver or whatever. You ain't got time to deal with the wrinkles and all that stuff that happens with the old boxers.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Absolutely not. You know, with Halloween too, you can get some fun Halloween themed underwear. Seen any of that? There's, like, there's one with a bunch of different things on there. There's like a skeleton. There's ghosts, pumpkins.

[Andrew]

It's perfect. You don't want to just have, like, the boring, like just blue, black colors. Like, freshen it up, guys. Come on.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Give me some good designs. Yeah. Right now, as a listener of the show, you can get cozy and spooky for less with deals up to 50% [e-mail] dalejr and enter the promo code dalejr.

[Andrew]

That's meundies.com dalejR promo code dalejr for up to 50% off. Meundies comfort. That's made for fall.

[Tommy]

Hey, what's up, everybody? Welcome to another edition of door Bumper clear. Things look a little different in here today. Yeah, Tommy. Like I said, we kicked him off the show. We've had enough of his. Sitting in his place, one of our illustrious media members and fellow Dirty Mo podcast host Jordan Bianchi. Hey, Jordan. How are you?

[Jordan Bianchi]

I'm well. Thanks for having me on bottom of the barrel.

[Tommy]

Also joining us, our actual guest this week, Mr. Austin Cindric.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Both Corey Heim and Connor Zillich will win the championship in their respective divisions.

[Jordan Bianchi]

After absolutely dominating all season long spot on Spot off Austin.

[Tommy]

This is tangled. Tangled web.

[Austin Cindric]

Could be a split thing because it's tough. I feel like I could take it two different ways with. With each of them, but we'll go. We'll go spot on because they deserve it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Tommy]

I mean, and that's the problem. That's where therein lies the problem. Jordan of the they are clearly the best guards. And when I say clearly, I'm talking Corey Hyman's led 40% of the laps this year in the truck series. They are clearly the best cars, best teams in their respective series. But that's not this format.

[Jordan Bianchi]

That's not this format. And if neither of them win the championship, it's going to be another, you know, talking point of here's why we need to change the playoff format, et cetera, et cetera. I will say this. I like Corey Heim's chances better than I like Connor Zillich. And this isn't a knock on. On Zillich.

[Austin Cindric]

I agree.

[Jordan Bianchi]

I just think that the Heim is clearly head and should. One, he's a great talent with a great team and two, he's got so much experience compared to a lot of the truck series guys who are still kind of coming into their own. It's such a combination that just elevates him above everyone else. The thing with Connor Zillich that jumps out to me, he's going to be great. He's going to probably make the championship four just based on the point accumulation he has. The problem is where's the championship at?

[Austin Cindric]

It's at Phoenix.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And where is Justin Allgaier really good at? Phoenix. If Allgaier can get there. I like allgaier in that format.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I really, really do.

[Jordan Bianchi]

So it's not really a knock on Connor. It's just more of a. This is how sets up well for the competition.

[Tommy]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And.

[Tommy]

And if the problem like and I'm it is the format is what it is. You can't. You complain about it all you want. You can talk about 36 races, you can talk about 10 races, three race, whatever it is. But that's not what the format is this year. And that's all that really matters. I would probably suggest deleting all forms of social media if these guys get wrecked at Phoenix in the final four. If you're NASCAR or anybody that wants to support the current playoff system. But I mean Austin, like, as for the 23 team, selfishly, I'm torn because the. The I grew up racing. My whole life's racing my dad race, growing up, everything I did. Racing was based on a season long points champion and that's what I want. But I know that right now, sitting here today, the only shot I have at ever winning a championship with Bubba, and this is right now in this current, in this current format is the way it is because we have seven DNFs this year. Our season would have been over in April. Probably. You, where do you sit on this? Like is there needs to be some kind of balance of a little bit of both, or do you like the current system or do you prefer something like a longer 36 race playoff?

[Austin Cindric]

Well, if I'm gonna use Jordan's example as far as Allgaier vs. Zillich at Phoenix, if that's. If that's what it is. And Allgaier wins at Phoenix. They were in a points battle for the regular season championship for, for the last two weeks. Yeah. Was Connor able to capitalize the last two weeks and win both those races to. Did Justin run well? Yes. But did he win? No. So does that make him undeserving? Hard to say if it makes him undeserving or not, but the win total is obviously what sets Conor apart. I think the playoff format is exciting for those who understand it and I think if there are any changes in the future that are to be made, it has to be first and foremost simplifying in order for more to understand and appreciate. Because otherwise it's. It's difficult to add more incentives and, and more items into the fold that, that, you know, a top 10 provisional in points or something like you get, you got to stop right there because you're gonna have, you're gonna lose people's, you know, interest because it's going to be really confusing. Right now. I feel like there's a lot of incentives to run well throughout the year. I mean, talking about, Connor's won nine races so far. You're right. If he finishes 20th in every race in the Xfinity series playoffs, he's probably going to be in the championship four. Okay. He's earned, he's earned the spot to go race for a championship already because. Okay, so we have incentives. Same thing with running well throughout the race stage, points, so on. So I think the incentives are all very good to continue to run well throughout the year. It's just, I think if there's anything to refine, it's a simplification to help our race fans and maybe our casual fans be able to be more on board with what's on. On the line and what's at stake. But. But past that, it's. It's pretty entertaining because, I mean, going into Bristol this weekend, Alex Bowman could go win.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Austin Cindric]

Alex Bowman could go in, and right now he's out. That's. That's exciting.

[Jordan Bianchi]

That's a moment.

[Austin Cindric]

That's a moment. I mean, no different than Chase Briscoe going out winning the Southern 500 with. With. You know, he had. He was equal to me on points starting the playoffs. Bang. And no. Can Chase Briscoe win the championship?

[Jordan Bianchi]

Like.

[Austin Cindric]

Like, that's crazy, right? I mean, if I was to go out and win Bristol, you'd be like, is Austin Cindrick a serious, serious contender for the. It's just gonna. Everybody on Monday morning is going to be having this conversation. Right?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

So.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So.

[Austin Cindric]

And we wouldn't have that without the playoffs. We wouldn't have that conversation without the playoffs.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Hypothetically speaking, if there was a championship round consisting of, say, four races, would that make it more palatable for the drivers?

[Austin Cindric]

Well, what's fair for the drivers and competitors is never going to be what's best for the fans.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And the drivers want more of a longer Runway for points. The fans, I think, are. Some fans should say, be careful. Like, they're one shorter. At least the TV networks do, too. But four races, again, hypothetically, would you be okay with that? We think that'd be okay. Kind of a fair compromise.

[Austin Cindric]

I don't even think it needs to be four.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Austin Cindric]

I mean, we have three race formats.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Austin Cindric]

Why does it need to be? I mean.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Well, you could have, like, a format. I'm just spitballing here of, let's say, three, three, four.

[Austin Cindric]

Sounds like Jordan knows something that I don't.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Know.

But you could have a format of like, three races and then another round of three races, and then from that, you whittled down to whatever number that driver count is and those. That number of drivers over four races is racing for the championship. That could be, you know, is that a fair compromise where you still have the mentality of you got to go out there and win it, you got to be aggressive because it helps you, but you also have a little bit more of a Runway where, quote, unquote, the better team is going to be more.

[Austin Cindric]

You know, I mean, you're essentially taking what the NBA does. It's a series.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Austin Cindric]

Each. Each round is. Is a series, and the more wins are better finishes. You get in the series, then bam. Yeah, you are. You are the champion.

[Tommy]

So I think, yeah, it's all stuff.

[Austin Cindric]

That'S been done before. It's just how do we apply it to, to our format?

[Tommy]

Yeah, I think anybody that's hoping for a 36 race season is never going to happen. So just like abandon all hope for that.

[Andrew]

This show is sponsored by Better Help. Hey, Andrew, I got a question for you. When you're dealing with problem in life, like who do you go to to help solve it for you?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Man, God bless him, my parents and my girlfriend and they are just the best listeners, best people for advice. So they're the ones I go to. What about you?

[Andrew]

Sometimes it's the group text with the boys.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I see you on Twitter a lot too.

[Andrew]

Twitter. Sometimes I don't know if I should take Twitter as where my problems are at. But a lot of times it's the group text with the friends. But I don't know if that's the right place to be going to.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, well, there's a difference between that and actually talking with a therapist. And that's where BetterHelp comes in. With clinically trained and licensed therapists, they've been around for over a decade. They've helped millions and out of Travis get this. 1.7 million client reviews. They've got a 4.9 rating.

[Andrew]

BetterHelp does the initial matching work for you so you can focus on your therapy goals. A short questionnaire helps identify your needs and preferences. And if you aren't happy with your match, switch to a different therapist at any time. It's fully online and you can pause your subscription whenever you need to. With over 30,000 therapists, BetterHelp is the world's largest online therapy platform, having served over 5 million people globally.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, Travis, I've used it, I've talked about it on this show, how much it's benefited me and maybe it could benefit someone like you out there.

[Andrew]

How much do you like just being able to the, you know, versatility of being on your couch and doing it or.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

It was easy.

[Andrew]

You don't have to go in.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

All I did was I jumped on a phone call in my room, you know, and it was, it was, it was, I had my own privacy. I was able to talk to someone. It was about a 30 minute session. And I'll say it did wonders to kind of help me realize what was stressing me out, what was causing problems.

[Andrew]

Yeah, you're not having to get in your car, drive 30 minutes, deal with traffic. Then you're getting upset about traffic or whatever.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

It's pretty easy to say go to.

[Andrew]

A brick and mortar place. It's so much easier.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

100% and as the largest online therapy provider in the world, BetterHelp can provide access to mental health professionals with a diverse variety of Expertise. Find the one with BetterHelp, our listeners get 10% off their first [e-mail] DaleJr that's betterhelp.com DaleJr Travis, you and me, we work in racing. Everything needs to be quick. We need that social video quick. We need to get the podcast out quick. Well, guess what? The same thing is important when hiring quality candidates.

[Andrew]

The last thing you want to be doing is sitting there waiting to try to find candidates. Jobs aren't getting done because you don't know who to hire. You don't even know who to interview for your job.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, that's right, Travis. You realize you needed to hire somebody not today, but yesterday. And how can you find amazing candidates.

[Andrew]

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[Dylan Hart Jr.]

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[Andrew]

And that's the thing is you don't want to just spend all this money. You want to pay for something and get it done fast so you can get everything done.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

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[Andrew]

To indeed.com dalejr right now and support our show by saying you heard about Indeed on this podcast. Indeed.comdaleJR Terms and conditions apply. Hiring Indeed is all you need.

[Ryan Ellis]

Hey guys. Welcome to Actions Detrimental Post worldwide technology raceway, St. Louis Gateway. We have all kinds of names for this track, but man, what a great weekend for the 11 team.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Your post post game speech there, is that planned? When did that come to you?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Well, y'.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All.

[Ryan Ellis]

Y' all have heard me say it before, right? I mean, I've said it amongst my friends and whatnot before. I do need to clarify though. Some are making it out to be like jump on the championship bandwagon. That's. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is jump on the 11 car bandwagon because you'll win more. You're going to win more. You're going to win more than you're going to try.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We're going to have to have a conversation.

[Ryan Ellis]

What's wrong?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There's just, there's just, there's just too.

[Ryan Ellis]

Much championship downplay here. I, how many times do I have to tell you? I want to win races. I believe I win the championship. That's going to be awesome. I'm going to try my damnedest to do it. But when it comes down to a race, you just don't know, man. I don't. I like to under promise and over deliver when it comes to that. What I'm saying is jump on the 11 car bandwagon and you're going to win more than probably what your favorite driver does.

[Andrew]

I, I, I believe you that you're saying that, but how it came across is get on it or we're running you over on our way to Phoenix to win a championship.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No.

[Tommy]

So you added all that at the end.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But that's not what I thought.

[Andrew]

That's how it sounded.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That sounds good.

[Andrew]

And by thinking if, if that's what you meant, it would have been so much at the, if you're just saying we're going to win races, like that's no longer as cool as what it was.

[Ryan Ellis]

Eleven against the world, you know?

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yes.

[Ryan Ellis]

Okay, well, that's not, you know, you want to win a Natty, you jump on the Ohio State bandwagon. No, you jump on the best team and they're going to win a ton of games and hopefully they win a championship at the end.

[Andrew]

No, it's natty or bust. That was our motto to start the year highest against the world. Natty or bust.

[Ryan Ellis]

Yeah, but y' all spent like $35 million.

[Andrew]

20.

[Ryan Ellis]

I just, I'm clarifying. You could. Everyone can make it their own. Whatever you want to make it. I'm all for it. I support you if you want to support me. My fans have gotten louder. Thank you. I hear the cheers. I, I'm with you.

[Andrew]

It's funny is I could hear some boos before you went with that line. They were kind of murmuring underneath. And then when you went there, then the boost just.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, yeah, it was awesome.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah.

[Ryan Ellis]

And a lot of it is, you know, I'm just, I, I don't know, you know, how many more race wins you know, I'll have. And so you got to take advantage. It's the only time also that we get to talk to the fans in the stands. Think about that. The only time you can talk to them, you either might get a 10 second interview on, on the big screen, like standing beside your car or you're going to talk to them after the race is over. And it's usually because you won the race. And so, like, that's the only opportunity I have to talk to those 30, 40,000 peop. You know, thousand people. I, It's. I want to give it to them any chance I can because I know that the bulk of them are not fans of mine and the bulk of them hate see me winning and I just love ruining their day.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I got a few messages on Instagram and for the rest of the season, the hashtag all aboard.

[Ryan Ellis]

I love, I love all aboard. Put it on a T shirt.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

See, the fans want to, want to hop on this train, but they want, they want clarification that the train is going to Phoenix.

[Ryan Ellis]

We know the train.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're telling us the train ride is going to be fun. Hop on. It's going to be a good time. But they want to know where the train's going.

[Ryan Ellis]

What does it matter where you're going? And when you, when you jump on a party bus, who gives a where? The end destination.

[Andrew]

Because if it ends at Martinsville, then that's not going to be as fun. If it goes to Phoenix.

[Ryan Ellis]

I'm going to try.

[Andrew]

You know what my dad tells me? Don't try, do.

[Ryan Ellis]

Listen, Trav, I, I'm doing the best that I can do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know.

[Ryan Ellis]

I mean, our win percentage is stout.

[Andrew]

Just keep it up.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Stout.

[Ryan Ellis]

So, like, listen, people, I. I'm talking to this camera. If you want to jump on the train, you're welcome aboard. We'll take care of you. You're going to have a good time. You might get hassled every now and then, but I can assure you, you're going to have more good weekends than you're going to have bad weekends. And I'm probably going to beat your favorite driver that you're currently rooting for. So I say all aboard.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And here's the thing. If, if you jump on the train and you have more good weekends than bad weekends and you win a handful more races before you get to Phoenix, or if you even get to Phoenix and then you don't make it to Phoenix or you don't win, at least the narrative of that point be like, oh, well, Denny deserved the championship because he had eight wins this year. And so that'll be in your favor.

[Ryan Ellis]

That's cool. I'm down with that. Yeah, listen, the trolls are in my mentions of like. Yeah, but another first, you know another round of 12 exit coming. Or another round of 8 exit coming. I don't give a. I just want to win races and beat the out of everyone else every chance I get. That's what I want to do. They're going to fix this playoff format for next year. Knock on wood. Think it's going to happen then? Then let's talk about legitimacy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Hey, race fans. It's Ryan Ellis driver, the number 71 tabletv dgm racing chevy and the NASCAR Xfinity Series. Everyone has been trying to find the best, most straightforward way to watch our races. Well, we've got the answer. Tablo TV Tableau is a device that gives you free access to 125 plus live and streaming channels, including the CW, where you can find every lap of our Xfinity series season. Best part, you only pay once for your tableau device, and it gives you the ability to watch forever. No subscription. With Tablo, you're able to watch a race live and pause it or record to watch later. Long story short, if you can't be at the track, tableau is the next best thing.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Check it out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And if you like it as much as I do, use promo code Ellis at checkout to get 20 off. And right now, all supplies last. You'll also get an exclusive hero card free with your purchase. To find all the channels you can get, head to tableautv.com Ryan that's t a B L O T V D. All right, David Ruderman on the Dale Jr. Download, you would end up having another win at Chicagoland. So you passed Jeff Gordon and held off Carl Edwards. This is in 2010. What do you. You know, where does that win fall? Is that kind of the one where you're like, all right, you know, now I feel like I can celebrate this. I deserve this. I earned this.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah, I think so. I mean, but, you know, of course, I mean, you know, you get to thinking in the back of your mind, it's like, well, why can't I win all the time? Because the car was just so good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You thought the car.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah, yeah. And it's like. Yeah, it just. You know, it's like thinking back to. You're like, you know, why can't I. Why can't I do this on a regular basis? Yeah, you know. You know, I mean, but. I mean, eventually reality sets in. But, yeah, it's.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It's.

[Jordan Bianchi]

It's. It's. I don't know. I mean. I mean, looking back, I mean, I wish I would have enjoyed it more. Yeah, for sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But I can relate to that.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Do you have that trophy?

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah, I had a trophy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Where is it?

[Jordan Bianchi]

It's in house. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So I mean, you're proud?

[Jordan Bianchi]

I don't know. I mean, yeah, I guess.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I mean, not many people have won at that level.

[Jordan Bianchi]

No, no, there's not. But yeah, I, I don't, I don't really think about especially being through all the stuff I've been through medically wise and whatever, you know. You know, it kind of puts things in perspective, I guess, really. And so I don't really dwell on that too much or think about it too much. I mean, heck, I mean to just say I, I've. When I finished race at, at Richmond and I walked away, I don't think I've watched. I think I watched Truex win the championship, last five laps. Other than that, I don't race. I don't watch cup racing like at all really. Period.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Do you think that's because you're just not interested to see it or because you don't want to watch it?

[Jordan Bianchi]

I think very few of us have the opportunity to go out the way we want to, you know. I mean, you didn't get to do that. No, I don't feel like I did. So it was like. And it's not because I'm mad at nascar. Have anything against cup racing? Yeah, it's just a self preservation, I guess really. If, you know, if you're a drug addict, you know, and you want to get clean, you don't hang around with people to do drugs. Well, that's, that's, that's kind of the same thing. That's the same thing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So that's a, that's very powerful. Let's talk about the crashes. You've recently had some brain surgery. When was that?

[Jordan Bianchi]

It's been about two years ago. Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was that for?

[Jordan Bianchi]

I had what's called a acoustic neuroma, which is basically a tumor on, on the back of your brain.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And you know, it's just, it was not cancerous tumor, it's just like a fatty tumor or whatever.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And. Yeah. And so why do you think you had that?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What is.

[Jordan Bianchi]

I asked the doctor, I was like, is it because I hit stuff or whatever? And he said, no, you just got lucky. And again, I mean part of it was ego because we all have it. And I knew sitting down in a dirt car I was not as good as I thought I should be behind the wheel, you know, because I mean, my background's dirt racing. So you know, automatically I Felt like as a driver, you just know when you're not performing right, you know, and so I said, well, let me go get checked. So I got checked and they did scan and, you know, whatever, all that stuff. And, and I can't, you know, so I, you know, nowadays you have to go to a specialist and another specialist. Another specialist. And so I went in the doctor's office there and sat down and my X ray was up on the computer screen. And I have no idea what I'm looking at at all, but I knew that different color mass in the center was not supposed to be there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And, and that's when the doctor said, he goes, yeah, because you, you've got a brain tumor. And he goes, it's got your spinal cord pushed way, way over.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And, and as I learned, evidently it's a fairly slow growing tumor. So I think I probably had it, you know, you know, obviously in the cup series as well.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Wow. Really?

[Jordan Bianchi]

And so, I mean, again, you want to, you want to take it, you know, use that as an excuse of why you didn't run good sometimes. But you never know. Yeah. You never, you don't know what happened.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So, so where. So they had to go in there and get this out. Even though it wasn't cancerous, they had to remove it because of what it might be doing to your spinal cord and making things, you know, complicated and having some issues down the road. Right. So they go in there and. And it's caused some changes in your, in your cognitive abilities and so forth. And so how, how hard have you worked, I guess, to get back as much as you can. What's that process been like?

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah, probably. Probably not as hard as I should have, for sure. I mean, it's easy to get discouraged, right. When you're trying to recover stuff. And. But I mean, I can't hear at all out of my right ear. Had to cut the nerves.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Okay.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Because the tumor had grown up in my ear canal. And you would think, you know, no more rain than I have, you could get inside and play tennis or whatever. But evidently it's kind of tight quarters. So it took a, a couple surgeons there. Two surgeons, really. Yeah. To go in there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Two different surgeries.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah, two. Two different surgeons at the same church.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, my God.

[Jordan Bianchi]

Yeah. And so they went there and, and cut it out. And you know, going in, you know, they said, well, you know, may have to end up cutting your facial nerve, which ends up making your face droop on one side, like, kind of like add a stroke, whatever, and, and yeah. So, you know, so everything to do with my right side, right side leg, right side arm, right side ear, all that stuff, you just. Basically, it sucks, really. I mean, you know, I mean, I've gotten better, but the doctor always told me, he goes, you'll have, you know, you. You recover and feel okay, and then you'll go downhill. And he goes, and after about two years, where you're at is where you're at. Where you're at. You're not gonna. You may get a little bit better in some things just by repetition. Yep. But, yeah, so I'm pretty much, you know, as good as I am right now gonna get.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

How have you managed that emotionally? And what kind of support have you had to navigate such a challenging thing emotionally?

[Jordan Bianchi]

I don't. I don't know if I'm the best person to ask. I think I'm doing okay. I mean, you just kind of have to adjust to the new norm, I guess. Really. But, I mean, I find myself all the time, you know, telling the guy, shop, yeah, bring that car in. I'll, you know, do this and do that. And then I discovered that I can't. I can't do it. I mean, I'm. I'm not coordinated. I had no balance. I walk around like I'm drunk. I can't talk right now. Not that ever could. But it's even worse now. I mean, it's just like. It's really, really easy to, you know, get down on yourself.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Sure.

[Jordan Bianchi]

And, you know. But I don't know. I mean, I have enough stuff to keep me busy to kind of keep my mind off the fact that I'm not, you know, as good as I was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Check out DirtyMome Media on Instagram, Facebook X and TikTok. When life brings the blah, add more yabba dabba doo with some tasty fruity Pebbles. Early morning meeting, blah. Someone brought the Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Run errands, blah. Head to the store for Pebbles. Yabba dabba doo. Fruity Pebbles. Less blah, more yabba dabba doo. Pick up pebble cereal today. Yabba da. And the Flintstones and all related characters and elements copyright and trademark Hanna Barbera.

[Andrew]

I'mma put you on, nephew.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right. Welcome to McDonald's. Can I take your order, miss?

[Andrew]

I've been hitting up McDonald's for years.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Now it's back.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

We need snack wraps.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What's a snack wrap?

[Andrew]

It's the return of something great.

[Tommy]

Snack wrap is back.