Lessons Learned From Dale Sr: Kevin “Two Beer” Pennell (Part 2)

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download

Lessons Learned From Dale Sr: Kevin "Two Beer" Pennell (Part 2)

Date: December 3, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Guest: Kevin "Two Beer" Pennell
Podcast by: Dirty Mo Media, SiriusXM

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and wide-ranging episode, Dale Jr. welcomes back longtime pit crew friend and trusted team member Kevin “Two Beer” Pennell for part two of their conversation. Together, they share war stories from their years working together, lessons learned from Dale Earnhardt Sr., the inside scoop on car setup secrets, the impact of tragedy on their team in 2001, ups and downs over the course of Dale Jr.’s Budweiser years, and the shifting landscape of the NASCAR garage. The episode is full of candid recollections, untold shop-floor insights, and plenty of laughter between old friends.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Cup Series Days & The Bud Team Experience

• Transition from Xfinity to Cup
  • Kevin describes the grueling early days:

    "Seven days a week, you know, a lot of work. Y'all worked some damn crazy hours, you know." (03:34)

  • They recall entering Cup with limited resources and the “pinch me” feeling of rapid career ascent.
• Competing Against Dale Sr. & Wild Races
  • Stories about competing with and against Dale Earnhardt Sr., including memorable incidents at Bristol and Martinsville.
  • Dale Jr. remembers racing hard, crashes, and fixing cars on the fly:

    "We hit everything, hit everything. Even hit the record on the way in." (05:52)

  • Lessons learned: after bad races, they went back for intensive testing and found crucial setup breakthroughs:

    "Pops is like, we're not going to never do that again. Went back up, tested for two days and put some laps on that racetrack." (07:51)

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2. Car Setup Secrets and Playing in NASCAR’s Gray Areas

• Tungsten Tricks and Other Tweaks
  • Detailed revelations on how the team pushed the limits to gain an edge.
  • Dale Jr. and Kevin recall using tungsten lowering blocks and manipulating "unsprung weight" for handling:

    "We took the spring bucket perch off the left rear trailing arm and we put a tungsten piece there." (08:11)

  • The team would also stack decals and adjust spoiler angles for aero advantage—sometimes using clever deception during tech inspections.
  • On playing by the rules, Kevin says:

    "If we had to create a rule, we went that route." (10:30)

• Memorable Testing Stories
  • All-Star Race test at Charlotte highlighted creative strategies (low fuel runs for grip, bluffing with slow setups in testing):

    "What Tony Jr. had done was pulled all the fuel out of it. And it only had enough fuel for the most part to be able to run those 10 laps. And that added so much grip in the car." (12:26)

• Spoiler and Tech Inspection Tactics
  • Tony Jr.’s penchant for pushing spoiler limits in the gray areas of NASCAR's procedures:

    "If I have it at 55, and I put that left side down to 45...the whole thing's lower. The only legal part now is the last part he checked." (35:35)

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3. The Mentorship and Influence of Dale Sr.

• Coaching Moments
  • Recollections of Dale Sr. giving pointed advice and tough love both on and off the track.

    “You had the opportunity to win the race but you let someone dictate it. …don’t never let that happen again.” (18:39)

  • Earnhardt Sr.’s pride in the team’s victories and standards he set for work ethic and racing spirit.

    "You could just see the grin and the glow in him…how proud he was of just everybody in general…" (16:41)

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4. 2001 Daytona 500: Loss, Aftermath, and Team Bond

• Recounting the Tragedy

  • Kevin shares the timeline after the crash, from moving through tech to being told by NASCAR to leave, and joining Dale Jr. and crew in the bus.

    "I do remember, you know, me, Pops, breaking, you know, I mean, breaking down… and NASCAR pretty much said, just forget it. This is over." (24:48)

  • Emotional confusion and the surreal experience of realizing the magnitude of the loss:

    "And to me, it was like mind blowing, you know, and you still couldn't grasp what was really going on…in the last 12 hours." (27:17)

• Rebuilding Purpose

  • The next week, the team is back at the shop, lost but unified, waiting on direction from Dale Jr.

    "That deal was, you know, hey…what we were going to do next was your decision, you know, which way we head from here." (27:48)

  • Kevin articulates how Earnhardt Sr.’s vision drove the team after his passing:

    "We're going to do what he wanted us to do. We're all in this, and we're doing it now. Nobody's leaving." (43:20)

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5. Emotional Highs: Triumphant Wins After Tragedy

• July 2001 Daytona Win
  • Both recall how the Fourth of July Daytona win became a defining, emotional moment:

    "We built a rocket ship. …We massaged that car to the fullest, of course." (39:41)

  • Insider details on how their prep—intentional and accidental—produced a car with a unique edge.

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6. The Human Side: Injuries, Bickering, and Brotherhood

• Dale Jr.’s Burn and Kevin’s Broken Hand

  • Candid, sometimes comical descriptions of working through pain together:

    Dale Jr.: "You come over there and…I asked you to tighten up the left belt. And you're yanking on that damn thing and something slipped and you punched me right in the top of the thigh." (49:41) Kevin: "That was the most painful. There was a GD moment." (49:50)

  • Team’s blue-collar, rough-and-tumble vibe—bickering and rough words were the norm, but so was deep allegiance.

• Crew Dynamics

  • Kevin explains: "…you better have some damn solid ass underwear to wear, you know?" (52:56)

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7. Bud Team Split, Regrets, and Lessons

• The 2004 Team Shake-Up
  • Dale Jr. and Kevin flush out the confusion, resentment, and missed communication in the wake of the split between the Bud team and Michael Waltrip’s team:

    "There was never no you coming…walking up there going, hey, I made this decision, or someone made this decision for me…there was never that..." (57:22)

  • Both express regret and gratitude for reuniting:

    Dale Jr.: "I hated that it took all that for me to understand what I had with Tony Senior and Tony Junior." (62:00)

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8. Later Career: Team Moves, Industry Changes

• The DEI/Ginn/Stewart-Haas Transition

  • Kevin describes relocating the core Bud crew multiple times and the cultural adjustments, including protecting team secrets and adapting to new bosses and co-workers.

    "…I was never gonna let nothing tarnish what Tony Senior and Tony Jr. worked towards…" (74:48)

• Stewart-Haas Years & Shutdown

  • Reflections on the 16-year run at SHR, the writing on the wall as performance slipped, and the eventual team closure:

    "For me, the writing was on the wall. Year or two prior, the writing was on…the performance." (77:22)

• Current Work Ethic & Changing Times

  • Contrast between the “jack of all trades” mentality of Kevin’s era and the specialized roles of today’s NASCAR teams:

    "For me, I don't have the degree, but I am engineer…I can do it if I need to." (81:24)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• [05:51 | Kevin]: “Kind of like Martinsville. Golly, that was a tough one, you know, same concept. We hit everything, hit everything. Even hit the record on the way in.”
• [13:41 | Kevin]: “Just wait till you come back. When you come back over there…you were like, I feel like I’m sitting in the back of a school bus, driving it from the back seat of the school bus, and I’m way out here in front of me.”
• [24:48 | Kevin]: "I do remember, you know, me, Pops, breaking, you know, I mean, breaking down… and NASCAR pretty much said, just forget it. This is over."
• [35:35 | Dale Jr.]: "If I have it at 55, and I put that left side down to 45… the whole thing’s lower. The only legal part now is the last party checked. The rest of it’s probably lower than 45 all the way across."
• [43:20 | Dale Jr.]: "We're going to do what he wanted us to do. We're all in this, and we're doing it now. Nobody's leaving. We're all going to figure this out."
• [52:56 | Kevin]: “You better have some damn solid ass underwear to wear, you know?”
• [62:00 | Dale Jr.]: "I hated that it took all that for me to understand what I had with Tony Senior and Tony Junior."
• [77:22 | Kevin]: “For me, the writing was on the wall. Year or two prior, the writing was on…the performance.”

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Important Timestamps

• 00:53 – Dale Jr. recounts early Cup injuries and humorously blames Kevin for aggravating a burn
• 04:09 – Comparing ‘good enough’ cars to the competition
• 07:44 – Lessons learned after disasters at Martinsville & Bristol
• 12:26 – All-Star race test and the importance of low fuel runs
• 24:48 – Kevin describes the night of Dale Sr.’s death and immediate aftermath
• 43:20 – Team's rededication to Dale Sr.'s vision after 2001
• 49:41 – Kevin accidentally aggravates Dale Jr's burn at Bristol
• 57:22 – The 2004 team split—communication breakdowns and regrets
• 62:00 – Realization of the special chemistry with Tony Sr. and Jr.
• 74:48 – Kevin on protecting DEI’s chassis secrets during organizational changes
• 77:22 – Stewart-Haas closure and feelings about the end of an era
• 81:11 – Changing workforce mentality in NASCAR today

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Tone, Language, & Atmosphere

• Raw, familial, and unfiltered: The conversation is full of shop talk, old-school camaraderie, biting humor, and emotion.
• Candid and introspective: Both men openly discuss regrets, mistakes, pride, and learning moments.
• Technical yet accessible: Explanations of setup tweaks, racing rules, and industry shifts are made personal through real-world examples.

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Closing Reflection

Dale Jr. and Kevin "Two Beer" Pennell wrap this two-part series as more than just racing colleagues; their bond is that of lifelong friends who’ve seen triumph, heartbreak, and everything in between. Their stories offer a window into what it meant to build—and rebuild—a team and a legacy in the shadow of one of NASCAR’s biggest icons. As racing changes, their old-school spirit stands as both a tribute and a lesson for the garage of the future.

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[Summary covers content segments only; ad reads, intros, and outros omitted.]

Transcript

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[Two Beer]

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[Dale Jr.]

That Corvette, like for the first two weeks, man, I couldn't walk. Like, I had to lay down and I'm still kind of needing a little bit of help with my seat belts and stuff. And you come over and I oh, yeah, I asked you to tighten it up. Yes, tighten up the left belt and you're yanking on that damn thing and something slipped and you punched me right in the top of the thigh.

[Two Beer]

That was the most painful there was a GD moment.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

I can't believe you just hit me there. And I'm like, I didn't mean to, you know.

[Dale Jr.]

The following is a production of Dirty Bo Media. All right, so it's time for another Dale Jr. Download here, the guest segment. And we've got Kevin Pannell coming in here. Part two of the interview that we're doing with him. We had him on earlier. Kevin's been a big part of my career from the Xfinity days all the way through the bud years and beyond. And we only got to part of that in the first episode. So we brought him in and we're going to finish it up. There's a lot here to talk about. All the bud days and then the shift away from DEI and Stewart Haas racing and so forth. So let's get Kevin in here and get started.

[Two Beer]

Two beer.

[Dale Jr.]

Kevin Pinel back on the Dale Jr. Down low. We had such a good time and ran out of time. Honestly, I don't even remember where we left off.

[Advertiser]

Where did we.

[Dale Jr.]

Where did we end? Oh, have we gotten into the bud days yet?

[Two Beer]

I thought we just got into the rookie part of the bud days.

[Dale Jr.]

The rookie cart rookie part. Well, let's just start right there.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

So Kevin, you Were the jackman on the acdelco crew going into the cup series and you kind of lived the, you know, lived the whole thing. All the bud days from a pretty cool vantage point, right? Great friends with Tony Senior, Tony junior Family related. Tony junior married your sister. So you and Tony junior tight as could be. And so now here we are moving into the cup series as rookies. We built a couple of cars and ran a few races in 99. We talked about going to Japan and racing there and having fun and now we're going to go run in the, in the cup series. What do you remember, I suppose about that, you know, going into that, you know, where you was that a pinch me moment for you, I guess, to think, man, I can't believe, you know, just a few years ago I wasn't even on a race team or what, I wasn't even. Here I am six, eight years later, I'm in the cuff series.

[Two Beer]

Yeah, seven days a week, you know, a lot of work. Yeah, y' all worked some damn crazy hours, you know. And that's one thing you think about now compared to then, I mean, back then, you know what I mean? Seven days a week, no days off until things were done. And that being said, minimum on staff too. People, you know, and resources were there, but the resources, you know, I mean, technology wise, I would say, you know, we thought we were good, but what, we were seeing other people, you know what I mean?

[Dale Jr.]

Like what?

[Two Beer]

Just, you know, cars that they were building, you know, or, you know, I mean, we were running against, you know, were way, I ain't saying way better, but better, you know, and you had to get to that level. You'd come home, you cut bodies off, you know, you'd put a bigger fender on or narrow right front fender, change the whole body. And you know, that right there, you know, production put you behind. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

So do you remember what dad was like, we're going to go out there and race against him. Do you remember Bristol when he wrecked. He wrecked Elliot Sadler in front of us.

[Advertiser]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

And. And we got knocked out.

[Two Beer]

We got, well, we got knocked out. I believe we were trying to fix it and we were welding truck arm mounts on underneath the car. And I'll never forget when your dad found out that Tony Senior welded a set of truck car mounts underneath that thing to put you back out there to go run. He flipped his lid, he was like, you got to be kidding me. You put us at a truck arm mounts on that car at the racetrack. And we were like, yeah, whatever it takes to get back out there.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, we got back out there. So dad comes up right before the race and walks up to me, and he's starting behind Elliot Sadler, and he walks up to Elliot and me. Me and Elliot's talking. He goes, you two boys just kind of take it easy. It's a tough race. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Y' all be. Y' all be good. You'll get a good finish. Lap one, he run in the back of Saddler and turned him in front of me, and I wrecked. And I was madder in hell. You sent me back out on the racetrack, and dad slapping me, and I tore damn right side off his car. You remember that?

[Two Beer]

Yep. Yep.

[Dale Jr.]

And he and Richard come down and said something. Richard Hilders. Yep.

[Two Beer]

He was. He was pretty much, like, parked at. Damn.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. Kind of like Martinsville. Golly, that was a tough one, you know, same concept. We hit everything, hit everything. Even hit the record on the way in. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Trying to get behind the wall to fix the sway. I. I think it was my first cup race at Martinsville. We didn't race there in the Xfinity series, so I hadn't been there in years. And. And it was a little. It was a battle, and it'll chew you up. But we ran into all kinds of things. But one thing I remember, Mike Waltrip tells this story. So we're at Martinsville, and we're racing along, and we got behind, we got lapped, and I'm lining up on the inside. On a restart, I got me some new tires, and we fired off, and I drove away about a straightaway in front of the leaders, and I'm driving as hard as I can drive that thing. And then the rest of the race plays out. We wreck and tear all kinds of up drug the sway bar arm off, and just all kinds of problems of my doing. And by the end of the race, I ain't got no fenders, and I'm running back there in the back, trying to stay out of the way, and I go down into the corner underneath Dave Blaney or on his outside, and somehow jumped his right rear tire and it launched me into the outside wall, bit the steering wheel, over the steering column, hit the wall harder than. And dad comes over the radio and says, thinks it's about time for him to park that thing. And Richard said, yeah, I don't believe you got to worry about that. It's pretty much done this time. And, man, that was a hell of a hit. I still have that steering wheel from that race. But we get in the helicopter to go home, and Dad's. I don't know where he finished, but he's looking at me. He's like, damn, boy, what the hell? You know, what was your damn problem today? And I was like, you didn't see me yard the leaders on that one little restart. I was like, I did pretty good then.

[Two Beer]

But, you know, even that, you know, to define a moment out of that whole deal, even as bad as we ran there.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

You know, Pops is like, we're not going to never do that again. Went back up, tested for two days and put some laps on that racetrack.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

Between. You know, I mean, a lot of major changes. And I would say that was the turn, a moment. You know what I mean? And how we went back and performed after that.

[Dale Jr.]

We always ran good at Martin's after that.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. One of the things that we learned was taken. And this would have been your department, I believe we put. We took the spring bucket perch off the left rear trailing arm and we put a tungsten piece there.

[Two Beer]

We put a tungsten lower block.

[Dale Jr.]

Tungsten lower block.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

All right. So unsprung weight and what else?

[Two Beer]

And we rev chip. We set the rev chip to come in at all times. Keep you from driving in. And we lowered the cross member, you know what I mean? So it would hit.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh.

[Two Beer]

At a certain point.

[Dale Jr.]

I couldn't overdrive.

[Two Beer]

Exactly. Because it was about burying it. Burying it, burying it. You know, we had to back it. Back you. Back you up.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

Yep.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, we got her dialed in. I always loved that damn tungsten lowering block keeping driving the car. And we used it in Hendrick. We went. When I went to Hendrick and run some. I was like, man, I gotta have that. That was drive. But it's illegal as hell. But what are some of the other things that we did to our cars to trick them up every now and then? I know we. I mean, we rarely got too far outside the rule.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, how was. How was Tony Jr. And Tony Senior in terms of following the guidelines straight.

[Two Beer]

To the, you know, I mean, we would. We would build things as max as you can build them.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

You know, and I mean, there's always.

[Dale Jr.]

These kind of things that weren't necessarily rules. Like I. I remember Tony Jr talking about stacking the decals on the roof in front of the, you know, in front of the camera on. At the plate races. We always had a budget. We always had a camera right on any kind of vantage point. There was going to be bud decals and they're like, well, instead of one little decal, let's put, you know, four thick ones, right. And stack them and it'll knock the wind over that.

[Two Beer]

We've, we even had the wedge that we put the decal on at one time in front of the camera. I don't remember which race, speedway race it was, but I remember the wedge that mounted and strictly gave it to the PR guy to put it on because we couldn't put it on.

[Dale Jr.]

You couldn't put it on.

[Two Beer]

No, we stick this on when it gets on pit road and just stick it on. But I mean, that stuff at DEI was really frowned upon, you know what I mean? And it was. And, but working to that edge, that gray area was always where, you know, I mean, we, we would put things.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

And, you know, if there was a rule and it, it said it in the rule book, you know, I mean, no, we didn't touch it, but if, if we had to create a rule, we went that route. You know what I mean?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but what are, what are some of your memories from that Rookie of the Year season?

[Two Beer]

I would say. You know what I mean? The winds, you know, they're always memories, but even the, you know, the hard work is the biggest thing.

[Dale Jr.]

Do you remember going and testing for the All Star Race? So we, as the way I remember it, we're out there testing. We'd been there for the majority of the, you know, later afternoon. It was a test that went from like 4:00 clock to 9 or something like that. And we're out there running and we're okay. We're top, we're top 10 for sure. Maybe top five on the board, feeling pretty good. And we're in this All Star. You know, we, we're, we're sitting there like, damn. We're just thrilled to be in it because we weren't going to be in it. And then we won a couple races right out of the gate. We're like, man, this is awesome. So it's All Star practice. There's about 20 cars and we're out there running and running and running. I remember Dale Jarrett being really fast for some reason. And then right at the end of the night, Tony Junior's like, I want you to go out there and just run 10 laps. I was like, okay. And I went out there and ran 10 laps as. And it was freaking way faster. And I was like, all right. I think we just simulated the final break, you know, the final, the final segment, 10 lap segment. That was when the All Star race was like 75 laps, 50 laps, 10. And we were really fast. And what Tony Jr. Had done was pulled all the fuel out of it. And it only had enough fuel for the most part to be able to run those 10 laps. And that added so much grip in the car. We were able to, you know, really kind of, if it would turn, it was going to get tight because the nose weight. But if it would turn, it was going to be great. And it was badass. So locked down and, you know, that was kind of the moment where I thought, you know, damn, we might have for something for him. We went out there in the first segment, full tank of fuel, and we're sitting there running third behind, I think, Bill Elliott and Rusty Wallace, I think. And I slapped the wall off turn four, and I was like, I've ruined it because it hit pretty hard. But it actually started driving better after that. I think I knocked the rear and palsing back on the right side and gave it some skew accidentally.

[Two Beer]

Accidentally.

[Dale Jr.]

We're sitting there in the final segment. They've been a bunch of damn crashing and fields kind of weeded out. We got a. We. We ran like one or two laps. And the call should come out in that. In that final 10 lap segment. And the radio conversation was Tony Senior, I think, said, well, what do you want to do? And I said, I don't think I can win it like this. We were four. I can't remember where we're running, but I was like, I can't win. Right? We're not going to win. We're not fast enough. Well, come on down here. We'll put some tires on it. What the hell? And so we came down and put tires on and I mean, that was the damn difference maker. Just a couple laps more. Better tire, Right, Right. And we drove through the field and ended up passing Del Jarrett and winning the race. What do you remember from that night?

[Two Beer]

But in the same sense, one thing I would say is like, went over there and tested Charlotte, you know, for the 600, the All Star race and all that. And I'll never forget, you know, I mean, Richie kept asking, you know what I mean, how you feel, how you feel about the motor, how you feel about this, how you feel about that. And you're like, oh, it feels good. Feels good. I mean. Cause coming from what we had in the bush or the xfinity series, you know, Felt amazing. Yeah. And you were like, this feels amazing. He says, just wait till you come back. When you come back over there.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, my God.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And you were like, yeah. Your comment was. He was like, well, how's this one feel compared to what he says? You were like, I feel like I'm sitting in the back of a school bus, driving it from the back seat of the school bus, and I'm way out here in front of me. Yeah. You know?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. They put, they put a damn ticking time bomb in that thing for qualifying for the 600, I think, or it might have been for the all Star race, but I remember I could not believe how much faster that motor went down the back straightaway versus the race engine.

[Two Beer]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

It was insane. The difference, you would think, oh, man, it's just gonna be a couple horsepower, just a little bit better. You won't really notice it. That's what my mind was telling me.

[Two Beer]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

We didn't have. We didn't change motors in the bush series.

[Two Beer]

Nope.

[Dale Jr.]

So I ain't never run. No. I ain't never had nobody bolt a qualifying engine in the car. And I ran that thing down the back straightaway the first time and I was like, holy, I must be going 10 mile an hour faster in the 3 than I was with the race engine. And, yeah, it felt like the car was way out in front of me. And I was like, way behind mentally, because in my mind, you know, you. I don't know, you know, you out on the racetrack and you get in your. You get in a rhythm with the car and you, you know where it's supposed to be and where it is at all times. And that, that thing was trying to get out from under me.

[Two Beer]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

And it's pretty amazing. We had some badass motors.

[Two Beer]

That's what I was getting ready to say. I mean, if you think about the Friday qualifiers, you know, when we'd pull them out, put race engines in, but just listening to them, when they fire up, when they're cold, just rattling and trying to tighten up and stuff, it was just amazing, you know, that they survived. Watching them smoke out the pipes and stuff like that, it was like, oh, my God.

[Dale Jr.]

I know it. Yeah, we had some bad ass engines. That was one of the things I think that we did, you know, that helped DEI have success so quickly was our engine shop was really, really good. You know, when we won at Texas Richmond pass dad to take the lead at Richmond, which is badass. Dad would come into victory lane. If he did, even in the bush days, he'd come in there, they had happy hours. So he was quick, you know, he'd come in, hey, good job. Find your ride home. I Always rode with him on his King Air. But you know, when we'd win, he's like, I'm leaving. Figure it out. Figure your own ride home and. But that night he stayed in Victory Lane with us at the All Star Race.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, that was pretty cool.

[Two Beer]

That was like I say, you know, thinking about them days and him, you know, how you could just see the grin and the glow in him, you know, I mean about how proud he was of just everybody in general, you know, and even you. He was just like, you know, he's seen, you know, everybody accomplished this goal.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

And this big of a race right here in our backyard. And he was just ecstatic. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, do you remember, you know, we go to Daytona in 2001 and we're out there racing all day long and I'm our first Daytona, the year before I thought went really good. We, I hadn't done well on the plate races. I'd wrecked just about every time we'd run the Busch car at Talladega and Daytona and so I wasn't feeling a ton of confidence. I think I'd finally in that final Talladega in 99, got a sixth place finish and that was the first time I didn't wreck the car at a speedway, a super speedway.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. But that was the one I was going to remind you about. What that Talladega race you got ran down on the apron.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Oh, that was in with that. Yeah, I'm talking about in the Bush series.

[Two Beer]

Well, I'm talking about the Cup Series part, you know what I mean of that one. And I'll never forget me and you. I just got off work, went over there and we were gonna go grab some food in town and it was a Saturday, it had to be a Saturday or something. Cause we worked half a day and we were riding out there and your dad was riding in and he pulled up beside of you. Where y' all going? You know what I mean? We're gonna grab some lunch or something in town. And he said something about, you know, talking about you should be able to workin right now, y' all should be able to workin at the shop. And he got to talking to us a little bit and then next thing you know, the conversation got on that race of you letting Skinner run you down on an apron which cost you the race. And it just stuck that, that part, that conversation stuck with me for years.

[Dale Jr.]

Really?

[Two Beer]

Yeah. Just because him like coaching you or pointing at you like, you know, you had the opportunity to win the race but you Let someone dictate it. You shouldn't have, but you allow me to win the race because of that and don't never let that happen again. Pretty much was the conversation point. And that was it. And you know what I mean, we drove on and he drove on, and it was like, that's always stuck with me for years. Is that little conversation just, you know?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. It's crazy, but, you know, we went to Daytona in 2000 as rookies and we did good in our qualifier. I remember getting out and doing the interview at the 76 pumps and just being like, holy, you know, we freaking finished top five and. And then in the race, you know, we run around and got beat around and pushed around, but we ended up getting across the finish line. Dad was madder than hell at the end of that race. That was the one where he said, I think Bill France would be returning over in his grave because of this arrow package that we've got. He hated it or something with the plate. He ran like his car pushed all day. I remember in one. I remember one point in the Daytona 500 in 2000, Dale Jarrett was flying. Somehow or another, he lost a lot of track position. He was behind me. And we're coming down the back straightaway and I see him coming. I pulled down in front of his ass and he hit me so damn hard. And it was kind of like, don't ever pull out in front of me again. I'm going to the front, right? And I'm not, you know, keep your slug ass. Slow car where it is. Get out of my way. We ran that race that we got. We got our car better, we got our bodies better. We went to Talladega, should have won that race. I'm sitting there pushing. I'm. You know, we got Bobby Lobani, me, Skinner, we're all kind of right there together. I was leading a little bit. Skinner got to lead. Bobby Lonnie got the lead. And we're all kind of right there. And I'm sitting. I'm sitting behind Skinner and I'm thinking I'm just kind of. He's block. He's doing a really, really good job of not giving me a chance to get underneath him. I'm trying to wait on him to catch him sleeping and give me a little spot underneath and. And there wasn't a below the line rule yet.

[Two Beer]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

You know, but I mean, they would block you all the way to the grass down the back straightaway. And so we're sitting there, sitting there running and running, and here Come I see dad on that side. He's like, eight rows back, six rows back, five rows back. And I'm thinking in my head, I should have jumped in front of his ass.

[Two Beer]

Yeah, there was a chance. I believe I should have.

[Dale Jr.]

I should have pulled up in front of him. But you know what? He would have kicked. I was thinking in my head, he would have kicked my ass or probably put me three wide and sent me to the back, but he would have been madder, and if I'd have jumped in front of him. So I'm like, all right, I can't do that. And then I got to thinking about how bad he didn't like, you know, how bad he kind of. I don't want to say how much he didn't like Skinner, right?

[Two Beer]

But he didn't want Skinner to win.

[Dale Jr.]

He didn't want Skinner to win, right? And so I'm sitting there going, I can't. Maybe I shouldn't be pushing Skinner. I got to get out from behind Skinner. I got to get out behind Skinner. So I'm kind of lifting off of Skinner, too. And that's even helping dad, right? Finally, dad gets to a point. I'm like, all right, I'm screwed. I've screwed myself. I should have just pushed the out of Skinner. I should have. And tried to pass him late. I should have kept helping Skinner with a lot of energy, but I wasn't. And it was a lot. It was. It was allowing dad to come on up by there and. But finally I was like, I'm going for it. As soon as we got through the tribal, where I could go left without wrecking myself. If I touched the apron, I was gonna spin out. I got down there. Skinner's like, I ain't coming up. Yeah, I'm staying on the bottom. You screwed. And I didn't have the balls to, like, door him up the track because I was afraid I was going to create a crash and be the one to blame, But I should. I should have just doored him up the racetrack and got him up the track. I don't know. You're probably wrecked.

[Two Beer]

I think that's what you were told later on.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but I had to lift. We're going into turn one. I'm like, I'm on the apron. And I had to lift. I ended up 14th, I think, overall. But, yeah, that was a show from my end on that one.

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[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, Travis. Hiring Indeed is all you need. Join the 3.3 million employers worldwide that use Indeed to connect with quality talent that fits their needs. Sponsored Jobs boosts your posts for quality candidates so you can reach the exact people you want faster.

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[Dale Jr.]

Podcast. Indeed.comdalejr Terms and conditions apply. Hiring do it the right way. With indeed. We get the Daytona for 2001, and man, we are a completely different team from 2000. And two of the best cars there between us and.

[Two Beer]

Michael. Michael.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. You know, we all know how the end of that race played out. I kind of want to know what you remember from your experience. I think I remember you being in the. In the bus with us at one.

[Two Beer]

Point.

[Dale Jr.]

Correct. I went over to the hospital with Danny, and then I came back. What were you. What was that? Hour and a half, two hours, whatever. Four hours. I don't even know how long that was from the moment the race ended up until we were in that bus together. What were y' all.

[Two Beer]

Doing? Well, we went. We obviously. You left off pit.

[Dale Jr.]

Road.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, we went through tech, started the process of rolling through tech, and I believe we got to the height sticks and, you know, I mean.

[Dale Jr.]

That'S where we were told, you know, I come over there. I.

[Two Beer]

Remember. I don't recall who told Pops, but I do remember, you know, me, Pops, breaking, you know, I mean, breaking down, you know, and trying to, you know, I mean, in nascar pretty much said, just forget it. Forget it. This is over. You know what I mean? And I've never experienced nothing like.

[Dale Jr.]

This.

[Two Beer]

Sure. You know what I mean? I don't think none of us has, but in the same sense it was. Couldn't. Kind of couldn't grasp it. You know what I mean?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Felt like you live in a movie or.

[Two Beer]

Something. Yeah. And it was like, you know, it was like. I can't explain it hardly now, but in the same sense, you know, I mean, I do remember, you know, I mean, I don't even remember really rolling the car out of there. I just remember, you know, we went, me, you, me and Danny and Tony Jr. And Tony Senior, you know, and a couple of us went to your bus. And by that time, you know, I mean, you were already back, you know, and then, you know, that was. That was what it was between all of us. That, you know, there. The only other thing I really, you know, remember about is leaving the racetrack, going to the airport. Just so much traffic. So, you know what I mean? So much going on, piling on the airplane, and then pretty much shutting the airport down on the terms of letting us taxi down the Runway and get out of there. Yeah. Getting.

[Dale Jr.]

Home. And.

[Two Beer]

I. Believe me. And you rode back to the house or I drove you back to your house. And we got. I do remember we got to the right there on Highway 3 right before. About a mile before the shop. And we were stopped. We stopped right there. There's state trooper sitting there with lights on, stopping traffic. And I was like. And I, you know, I think you mentioned something about us maybe a bad wreck or something going on down here. You know, I mean, you know, your mind was probably way beyond where mine was, but in the same sense, you know, I knew why probably traffic was stopped. There was people walking down the road, you know, and that's how far they were parked. Yeah. Way back there away from the shop. And you were like, you know, it must have been bad wreck where I rolled the window down. Talked to the state trooper about, you know, hey, you know what I mean, we're just heading to his house. He lives right up here in front of the shop. And he looked over and he. He knew exactly who you were. And we hauled butt out of there or hold, you know, I made up their. Towards his shop, to the.

[Dale Jr.]

House.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And just people. And I think. I don't know if it. If you remember then. Or I drive. I remember. But it looked like on the terms of me looking at you, he shit like a ton of bricks about all these.

[Dale Jr.]

People.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, I mean, just already lined up at the shop. You know, I mean, it. And to me, it was like mind blowing, you know, and you still couldn't grasp what was really going on. What we've been.

[Dale Jr.]

Through.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, in the last 12 hours, you know, and, you know, just lost. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? Yeah. Do you remember the first conversation you had with Tony Senior after that? What was the. What happened when you went to work on.

[Two Beer]

Monday? Those Monday meetings were more on the terms of what needs to be done. You know, I mean, getting things accomplished for the week of. But in that. That deal was, you know, hey, I. We haven't talked to you yet? You know, this was, you know, what we were going to do next was your decision, you know, which way we head from here. Yeah. And we haven't heard that yet. Which, you know, I mean, do you remember me? I want to say it was later on mid. Mid morning, maybe before.

[Dale Jr.]

Lunch.

[Two Beer]

What? Yeah. I mean, you were gonna race. You know what I mean? Yeah. And we got to.

[Dale Jr.]

Word. When did y' all see me.

[Two Beer]

Next? It had to be sometime around lunchtime or.

[Dale Jr.]

Monday.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. I don't remember. I remember just very few. Very few details around that whole.

[Two Beer]

Thing. Like, I remember the. The highlight points of. I ain't sending highlight points, but things that stuck in my mind, you know what I mean? Like the plane ride home, me and you riding home right after going through tech and everything, and they said us over. I remember them things, but you know what I mean, in the same sense, you know, the Rockingham week, the week after is hard to remember just because. Yeah, them little fine details. Because there was so much just stacked into one week that we. We done to, you know, obviously, you know, mourn your dad and more than our boss. But in the same sense, it was. You know, there was just a lot of things going on.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Do you. Yeah, we went to Rockingham. You know, I don't know that any of us knew where we were supposed to be, but we didn't want to be at.

[Two Beer]

Home.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. You know what I mean? We didn't want.

[Two Beer]

To.

[Dale Jr.]

Not. We didn't want to go sit at home. You know, we had to.

[Two Beer]

Race. Probably didn't want to be at Rockingham.

[Dale Jr.]

Either. We didn't really love Rockingham. That's why I was getting ready.

[Two Beer]

To say we probably didn't want to.

[Dale Jr.]

Go. We could have chose other racetracks, but we went to Rockingham and we qualified pretty bad. Got ran into. In the turn three. There's a lot of checking up, guys trying to get to the bottom into three. And we got turned into the wall. I just kind of overcorrected after I got turned sideways. But I was so embarrassed that that crash. How similar that crash looked to Dad's. I was so embarrassed that I. I mean, it's lap one. I knew everybody was kind of wondering, watching. And then for that to happen, I was like, golly, it would have really done me some good to run.

[Two Beer]

500 miles or just run half of it or.

[Dale Jr.]

Something. That's just to get. Just to be. Just for it to be off my mind for a little while, you know? Cause driving a race car it can get. You can't think about nothing else. It can really clear your mind. And I just. That sucked.

[Two Beer]

Right. And I think, you know, even. Even when, you know, we were put out to race, race was over. It started raining, obviously. We went home, you know, I mean, we were done. We put it in the truck. Just, you know, listening to that race on Monday at the shop.

[Dale Jr.]

Working. Damn, I forgot it happened on.

[Two Beer]

Monday.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes.

[Two Beer]

Holy. So we were sitting there, and.

[Dale Jr.]

That must have been.

[Two Beer]

Surreal. That's another highlight moment, you know, I mean, it's like you're sitting there and, you know you're supposed to be in this.

[Dale Jr.]

Race. Yeah. And it's happening and it's happening.

[Two Beer]

And without you, and you're sitting there listening to it on the.

[Dale Jr.]

Radio. That had been surreal, you know.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And that's just some of the highlight points of, like, what stuck in my mind about that whole.

[Dale Jr.]

Deal. Yeah. Do you remember much of the rest of the year? Kind of a. Kind of a blur for.

[Two Beer]

Me. A blurry.

[Dale Jr.]

Year. I remember just going to all the races and seeing the tributes. Tribute, tribute, tribute. A lot of.

[Two Beer]

Tributes. A lot of tributes. But going back. Going back to the fourth of July race, to me, you know, that was a highlight, you know.

[Dale Jr.]

Of. Did you know when y' all were building that car, what you were.

[Two Beer]

Building? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was. And that's where I said, you know what I mean, from then on. And even for that race. But then on Speedway racing, you know what I mean? There was never no stone overturn. Oh, no. I mean, it was full kill. It didn't matter if the back, you know, if we hit Sonny or, you know, he needed to leave, you know, to get that tractor down there or that.

[Dale Jr.]

Car. Yeah. The truck.

[Two Beer]

Driver. Yeah. But in the same sense, it was like, we'll get you on the road in ample time to hurry up and get down there, you know what I mean? You may be.

[Dale Jr.]

Y'. All tuning on it all the way up to the last.

[Two Beer]

Second. I've seen it. The back door come back or the car come back out just to put the template back on, just. Cause they got the.

[Dale Jr.]

Talking.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know what I mean? And it was like, you didn't take enough, and we got it back out to take a little bit more. Yeah. And that's just the mentality of working with them guys, you know what I mean? And what they instill in you, the work, you know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? We had these spoilers, and I know that they would get down there and Dahoney Jr. Walked around with a file in his back pocket, filing on that spoiler all weekend. And every time it went through, you know, it's still passing tech. Yep. All right, we're gonna file a little bit more. And I mean, just filing. Just hairs off this.

[Two Beer]

Thing. Well, I'll tell you that. You talking about filing that spoiler and filing hairs. We. I don't know if it's three in a row, four in a row. I don't know which Talladega it was. But I do remember we went out practice. We were mediocre practice. And obviously Pops went back up in the holler. You might have been up in there. Tony Jr. Walked up in there, and he came back out of there. And I'm like, I guess he was coming back out to figure out what needed to be changed on the car or whatever. And Pops pretty much chewed him on the terms of, you know, what are you going to do to make this thing faster? He said, what's wrong with it right now? He goes, you know, the damn thing can't keep up. What do you think? You know, I mean, you need to do something. Make some damn changes, Win this damn race. You know what I mean? So he come back out there, and I'll never forget Robert Yates, Doug, and all of them were standing off to our side with Todd Parrott and Dale Jarrett in the next garage over. And I knew they were looking at us because they were talking about us. Tony Jr. Took the long template and laid it on the rear spoiler, and I held one side, and he slid it one side, and he said, put a scribe line there. I scribed it on one side, and it was like a scribe line. Three, eight of an inch. I'm sitting there going, are you kidding me? Like that. And he grabbed a pair of snips and went down the side of that thing and snipped it right off and laid it on the ground. And the Yates boys flipped out. You know what I mean? They were like. You know, their eyes just were like that big, you know, saucers and roll through Tech the next day, and they put the rear spoiler template on it. He held one side for. For the guy. Then the guy moved over to the other side and he slid the template. The guy wiped his hand on that side, and we rolled on and. And the Yates boys were standing right there watching us, and they just shook. I mean.

[Dale Jr.]

They. No.

[Two Beer]

Telling. No.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. No.

[Two Beer]

Tattletailing. That's.

[Dale Jr.]

It. I remember Tony Jr. Showed me this trick. We stand out on pit road, and they Would put the angle finder on the. On the rear spoiler, and they would let you adjust it. And a lot of guys would obviously try to go through there, either borderline or low. And Tony Jr got it in his head that if I go through there really high, they're going to let me work it down. And so they'll start on the right side and go left. You know, they'll check it in four or five different spots, and he can work it down, work it down, work it down. The guy puts the gauge on there, and I'm standing there, and I'm. It's the rules. 45 degrees, and the damn gauge is 55 degrees. I was like, 55. Holy. They go through the whole process, right? And guy finally gets to the left side and gets the reading he wants. And Tony Jr. Has adjusted this spoiler all the way across to get it down legal. And we pass on through. We roll on forward. They do that at about the 10th car before you go out on the racetrack to run your lap. So you're out on pit road in line doing this final piece. They didn't want you touching the spoiler till you got. Got you out on pit road where you couldn't with it. And I see Tony. We get through there, and I'm like, Tony Junior, the damn thing was 55 on the way out here. Like, why would you have it so high? Why you got it way up? What the hell's it at now? He's like, it's lower than 45. And I was like, how? He's like, well, if I have it at 55, and I put that left side down to 45, and then the next time. The next adjustment takes that to 45, the next adjustment takes that part to 45. That left side's getting lower and lower and lower. He's like, the whole thing's lower. He said, the only legal part now is the last party checked. The rest of it's probably lower than 45 all the way across. I was like, holy. I mean, the damn. The things that he thought about and the things y'. All. Y' all would. I'm assuming, you know, I mean, if y' all weren't physically turning wrenches, y' all were in. In an office or standing around a car.

[Two Beer]

Talking.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep. And bouncing off, you know, shooting holes in all these ideas. Right. And trying to figure out, like, oh, man. Well, this is the process of tech. So if we do it this way, maybe this will open this up or free this up. And, you know, most of some Other guys are probably doing that, too, but most everybody else is thinking, man, the rules. 45. I wonder if I can get 43 through, you know, say, roll up. There were 43. And then NASCAR says, up. Gotta bump it up a little bit. Well, they adjusted up to 45, right? And they're probably all going out of. Going out on the track with 45 or more. And he's probably qualifying with 40 degrees spoiler on the right side where it really matters, you know? You know, the. The. The July race is probably a lot of people's favorite moment in our. Our work together, you know, and. And maybe in my own. My own career, personally. I don't know where you are on what the. What's the coolest thing that ever happened to you? We can get down the road. We can get to that later. But we built a rocket ship. What I remember about. I know that we. I know that we massage that car to the fullest, of course. But I also know one thing I think that inadvertently helped us, that we didn't really realize that was going to be great. And it's something you can't really truly understand in the tunnel, but up until around 2001, we could tie the rear shocks down as much as we wanted and as aggressive as we wanted. And what we were doing to get the cars lower was basically raking the frame rails in the car. So we basically would just raise the frame rail up in the car in the back, and that meant raising up the driver, raising up the floor pan. Everything in the back of the car is going up, up, up, up, up for like 4 or 6 inches. You'd have a. You'd have a car sitting there that had the frame rails raked by 4 to 6 inches from front to rear, right? And, you know, you'd get in that car to squat, squat, squat, squat. And you would see these cars when you take them out of the trailer. They'd have side skirts on the back that were like 8 or 10 inches long. And the front side skirt. The front of the side skirt would be like 4 inches, like a traditional height. And that's where you kind of see where the rocker and everything was kind of raked. Well, when they made the rules and took away those shocks and kind of gave us the shocks, we had to race. A lot of guys went back and built cars without the rake because the drivers were up in the roof at this point, and they go, get the driver back down, get the floor pan back down, get everything back down. We didn't change our car. We didn't build a new car. We didn't take the rake out of the frame rails. And I don't. I have to believe that car hauled ass all the way around that track. But it really run through the corner all the way off of 2. It would haul ass from the center of the corner, off the corner. And it just get this little. They couldn't get a run on.

[Two Beer]

It. Well, those were the time. Like you're saying, they issue shocks, rear springs because they had a rear spring package and shocks. And when they were given to us, we'd stick a rubber in the right rear or half a little rubber or something. Just enough for it to sit on right there. Off of.

[Dale Jr.]

Two. Yeah, that little guy. That's.

[Two Beer]

Right. And I'll never forget watching people's faces when Tony Jr. Would tape a rubber in that right.

[Dale Jr.]

Rear.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And they were like, are you kidding me? You know what I mean? Like, you see that? Stupid. But that's what it. Yeah, that's what it was for.

[Dale Jr.]

Man. It, it hauled ass and it was. I think there was something to. However that floor pan being raked, how much travel that car was getting or wasn't getting, comparable to what it would do before with the, with the tie down shocks. Something about the floor pan in our car really helped that car maintain the speed it gained down the straightaway. It would maintain that speed through the corner. And I don't know whether those other guys getting their floor pans and everything back down created a bit of a vacuum and some drag when the car would compress and travel in the corner. And ours having the floor plan raised in the back would allow that, you know, car not to create drag and allow that air place to go. But it was something.

[Two Beer]

Special. But we were still playing around at the same time with the fuel cell.

[Dale Jr.]

Height.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Getting it out and we raising it. We went down there testing and we had a cap on there, simulated that fuel cell. And we left that cap on the whole week down there and testing. But we knew it was better without it. Without.

[Dale Jr.]

It. You had it on there to sandbag a little.

[Two Beer]

Bit. Well, once again, everybody came back down there for the, for the races and they had their fuel cells lower down and we still had ours.

[Dale Jr.]

Up. Yeah, you took the cap off when you got home before you load it. Yeah, I, I remember we'd go to Daytona and Talladega and test and y' all would do like that. I would, I'd be like, why is this like this? This is slower. You know, it's Slower. He's like, well, we don't need to take it off. It's okay to be slow right.

[Two Beer]

Now. It's fine. But beating it in your head.

[Dale Jr.]

At the end of the day, I didn't figure it.

[Two Beer]

Out. You know, you were too busy. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? I'm, like, looking at the board, I'm like, I want to be faster. Make it faster. Why. Why is this. This is slower. Take that.

[Two Beer]

Off.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. No, we ain't taking it.

[Two Beer]

Off.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. Well, it'll be off when it needs to be off, I guess. You know, 2001, I think, was a. Was a. Was a kind of a tough year, but I wasn't. I wasn't a whole. I wasn't all that confident or sure exactly what was going to happen for us. I would have never. I would have never guessed what we were going to continue to build our program to where we would be in 2004, where we'd ran six races. But talk about the. Talk about the attitude that the whole place developed of. We're going to see this vision out now. I mean, I felt in my feet, my feelings about it. Kevin was, you know, we were all sad as Right. But it almost made us go. We're going to do what he wanted us to do. We're all in this, and we're doing it now. Nobody's leaving. We're all going to figure this out. We're going to do. We're going to make what Dale wanted to happen happen. Is that kind of what.

[Two Beer]

You. I think, yeah, that. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? Because a lot of people could.

[Two Beer]

Have left for a lot of original people. I call original people, you know, the old school. 90. 90 people, you know, that was a lot of their vision. As, you know, Dale Senior, this what he would want, you know, I mean, being, you know, I mean, how he want that. Us to keep striving and racing, but also for us, also as a race team, you know, your vision, you know, of you showing up, wanting a race, you know, I mean, pushed us to wanting to put you in Victor Lane even more. You know, I didn't know that. Yeah. I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, us behind you was 100% when you may not have thought.

[Dale Jr.]

It.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know what I mean? Even some of the bickering, arguing that we've always have done. I mean, just because that's who we are. But in the same sense, I think, you know, us, you know, having you is what we wanted, to be able to carry that legacy on because of what we knew your dad wanted, but in the same sense what you wanted, what you were capable of doing when we did give you good cars. You know, as the pretty much the thing that stuck out to me.

[D]

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[Dale Jr.]

Com. You know, I don't really remember too much about 2002 and yeah, two, two and three, they're kind of blurs.

[Two Beer]

Too.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. But four, four opened up. We had, you know, turn 2004 was a year where I feel like our bodies, you know, talking about short track and mile and a half stuff, our bodies got real good. Like they were, they were already pretty good. But we really, we had a new car, right. We didn't have the car from 2000, 2001. So we developed this kind of new, new body and we were starting to really figure it out. You know, we had some, we started to show speed.

[Two Beer]

Everywhere. But that's four years of us being in the cup series. You know, we've all gotten smarter, braver, you know, of our competitors, I call it, you know, and I think that's one thing that's helped.

[Dale Jr.]

Too. We were winning races at Talladega. We won four in a row. We won a couple no bulls, but I really loved the fact. And we got, you know, people started saying, well, that's all a kid can do, right? And I was so proud to go to Phoenix and win back to back races there or go to Dover and win in 2001 in Bristol. Sweeping.

[Two Beer]

Bristol.

[Dale Jr.]

Wow. Yeah. That was.

[Two Beer]

Badass. That.

[Dale Jr.]

Was. And do you remember, you want to know something about Bristol? I got burnt up in that.

[Two Beer]

Corvette.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And I don't think, I don't think any of y' all knew what any of that looked like. Like for the first two weeks, man, I couldn't walk. Like, I had to lay down. It hurt to walk, it hurt to stand up. Like it felt like all the, it felt like everything was going to come out of this hole that I had in my.

[Two Beer]

Leg.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. And it's the strangest feeling when your skin's gone, but it felt like all the leg muscles, everything was going to come out of this hole in my leg. And I'm sorry if it's graphic, but I don't know how to explain it. It's very painful. And so anyways, I'm. Me and my mom are having to change these dressings on this leg twice a day. And I got bad burns in both hinges of my leg, of my knee. And I got a really, really bad burn on top of my thigh, on my left thigh. And there's no skin there. I don't know why they didn't graph it, but it literally is a hole about size Of a baseball that just had to heal together over time. And it just. That hole got smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller over the course of like three months. And my body just making new skin. And so we are at Bristol and I'm still bandaging, I'm still changing that bandage. I got to go out in the bus and change it at some point in the day. Right. And we're practicing and I'm still kind of needing a little bit of help with my seat belts and stuff. And you come over there and I. Oh, yeah, I asked you to tighten it up. Yes, tighten up the left belt. And you're yanking on that damn thing. And something slipped and you punched me right in the top of the.

[Two Beer]

Thigh. I'll never.

[Dale Jr.]

Forget. Right in that hole in my leg. Holy. I don't know if I had to get out or.

[Two Beer]

Whatever. No, it.

[Dale Jr.]

Was. That was the most.

[Two Beer]

Painful. There was a GD.

[Dale Jr.]

Moment.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. I can't believe you just hit me there. And I'm like, I didn't mean to, you know. And it was like, he's still healing over.

[Dale Jr.]

Here. You know what I.

[Two Beer]

Mean? Or some comment like that. And I was like, what do you. I mean, we didn't realize, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know, at the time I went. We went to. We swept the.

[Two Beer]

Weekend.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And I remember standing in victory lane as the champagne started soaking through that uniform into that damn burning. Oh, God almighty. It was stinging. It hurt. It was hurting pretty good. But I remember that was one thing that happened between me and you that I'll never forget. The other thing was. And I don't. I don't know what year this might have been, but remember when you broke your hand at.

[Two Beer]

Sonoma?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. How'd you do that? So was that my.

[Two Beer]

Fault? Well, no, no. So Sonoma's kind of tricky because you run around the car back, you know me, I call it backwards. And then you got to do like some, you know, for a right handed jacker, you got to do some kind of little damn spin. Not like the modern day jackers, I call them today. Yeah. Carrying it around or doing whatever they do, but came around and hit brake dust at the left. The left front or right front that was laying there. And I remember slipping and the handle on the jack kind of jetties out and I kind of just landed on my wrist and folded it.

[Dale Jr.]

Backwards.

[Two Beer]

Damn. And I could not pick that jack back. I just rolled it underneath the car and jacked it up. And I remember just a throbbing pain, you know, in my wrist area. To where? To the point to where, you know, I mean, I could not even pick it up to set it on the wall. Had to, you know, I mean, just pick it up with one hand and set it over there. And I didn't know if I was going to jack the rest of the day or what, what was going on. And I'll never forget, you know, the comments started rolling in, you know, about slow ass pit stops and this and that, you know what I mean? And I'm trying to. I pull my. I actually took my radio off and threw it, you know what I mean, on the ground because I was tired of that. I was tired of hearing the. You know what I mean? And Tony Jr. Comes over and he says, can you Jack? Do we need to find somebody else? I said, I'll figure something out in a minute. Give me a moment, you know what I mean? So I start trying to, you know what I mean? Getting Walt and the other guys to wrap me up, you know what I mean? My wrist tight where I can use it, you know, but, you know, I didn't know how bad it was and keeping it. I had it stuck down in the cooler. And then I put my headset back on and, you know, come to find out, you know what I mean, the comments were flowing back and forth. Yeah, still going. So I just turn it.

[Dale Jr.]

Off. I said, I said something about to stop. And he told you to calm down in there. We got a broke hand. I was like, broke hand? Who broke your hand? Two beer. I'll tell him to walk it.

[Two Beer]

Off. Yeah, walk it off. And I. But I was used to it at the time. I was like, you know, I probably said something at that point in time, as you know, I'll bust his ass when he gets out of the car or.

[Dale Jr.]

Something. I remember that. Yeah, you didn't say it like on the radio, but like, I'm a.

[Two Beer]

Whooping. I whoop his ass when he gets out of the car or something like.

[Dale Jr.]

That. But, you know, that was how it.

[Two Beer]

Was. That was the way we were, you know what I mean? And if you could not. And.

[Dale Jr.]

That'S. You couldn't take it. You couldn't take it in.

[Two Beer]

Last. You didn't last on that team, you know what I mean? You better have some damn solid ass underwear to wear, you know? Yeah, that was.

[Dale Jr.]

Us. I, you know, we. We had this incredible year in 2004.

[Two Beer]

And. And I hold on was Sonoma, the race where they moved to Porter John's on you up.

[Dale Jr.]

There? I don't.

[Two Beer]

Know. Oh, you went through the esses yeah. And we were like, fast as hell. And then the next morning we.

[Dale Jr.]

Come out for qualifying, couldn't hit her.

[Two Beer]

Ass. And you, you, you, you spun it out or went off track. Yeah. Come to find out, they moved to Porter John's. My mark, your.

[Dale Jr.]

Marker? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was. I, I wasn't much of a marker guy except for the road courses we run. We won all those races in 04 and we're in a really, really good spot. I don't. You know, we had a really rough playoff. I, I should have known better than to mess with Carl Edwards at Atlanta and got myself wrecked down the back straight away. That was a chunk of points. We broke a rear end at Martinsville, which.

[Two Beer]

Hurt. We still had a.

[Dale Jr.]

Chance. We did, we went.

[Two Beer]

Into. But they got us on Talladega, didn't.

[Dale Jr.]

They? They have said. Got a couple 25 points there. Yeah, that was frustrating. We go into Homestead and all I can. I don't know. I don't know what happened. I mean, we did. We not. We won Phoenix with one.

[Two Beer]

Phoenix. We won the Phoenix race. We won Phoenix going to Homestead. Yeah. And. Oh, and Kurt broke a right front or something.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Well, wait, we, we are in, we are at Homestead and I don't know what, I don't know why, but in. I mean, after the first practice, me and Tony are so damn mad, we can't even speak to each other. Do you remember that? I mean, what the was I thinking? But no, no, no, because this is how the split happened. That didn't. Never should have happened. Never should. I know so. And I know, you know, that we, we come out of. We go into Phoenix or we go into Homestead and we literally had one. I don't know, we went through the whole weekend and maybe it was after happy hour and it was like two days of practicing and qualifying and happy hour. And maybe that was like the point to where it was like, I ain't even going in that damn holler if he's in there. You know, we weren't even speaking. And I think I knew that I had a hard time with Homestead until it, you know, until the track got to where it run around the top. But I could not figure out how to get around that place. When they reconfigured it, we weren't fast, we were struggling. We were arguing, hollering, you know, Tony Jr. Was getting tired of my. And we really ended happy hour mad as hell at each other, worse than we'd ever been. This was like bigger. This was more than just guys just you know, running their mouths each other and it'll be okay. And you know, that we ran that race and just had a ho hum kind of day and don't remember it being anything bad or good.

[Two Beer]

But. But I think there was y' all still hollering during the race, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know, what do you.

[Two Beer]

Remember? I mean, I look back at that race as. You know what I mean, everything that we worked for all year, and we had opportunity, you know what I mean? And we let some opportunities slip by, and I think it just escalated that weekend. Yeah. You know, between the two of.

[Dale Jr.]

Y'.

[Two Beer]

All. But in the same sense it was for the arguing part of us, there was nothing no different than ever happened. Yeah, I was used to.

[Dale Jr.]

It.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. I loved it. You know what I mean? Yeah. But in the same. Same deal as. I just, you know, I didn't look at it as something that needed to happen. What. To make what.

[Dale Jr.]

Happened. Yeah. You know, what do you remember about all that? How it all, you know, who. You know, you. I mean, this is a safe space. You.

[Two Beer]

Know. The only thing I remember about, you know, that whole deal going down is, you know, after season was over, we're going to make a.

[Dale Jr.]

Swap. It was.

[Two Beer]

Immediate. I mean. Yeah. And I'm. I'm sitting there going, where the hell did this come from? You know, and we were. We never really got any kind of. This is why, you know, it was just, we're gonna make a swap and we're gonna put Michael up here and we're Gonna put Dale Jr. Down there in the chicken house shop, you know, and that's where we're gonna. That's how we're gonna run next year. And I'm sitting there going, all right, you know, but for me, you know what I mean, as long as I've been there and being around you, I was like, you know, I mean, this isn't him. You know, why would he even want this? And I ain't saying I had any resent against you through that deal. It was just. There was never no you coming. Walking up there going, hey, I made this decision, or someone made this decision for me or. You know what I mean? There was never that, you know, towards us that's been there all these years. And it was just, you know, Tony Jr. Coming up there, walking in with Tony Senior saying, we're making this swap and we put Michael in these cars and we're gonna paint them blue. And I was like, all right, you know what I mean? Yeah, here we.

[Dale Jr.]

Go. So I'll tell you, I Mean, I know you might have heard it since then. It was a long time ago, but I had responsibility in that decision. I was in the commerce. I was in the room when it was being discussed. And I didn't. I didn't stand up and say, I don't want.

[Two Beer]

This.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And I thought maybe it might work. And I. I will say too, like, halfway through the year we were at Talladega. We. We had. We. We kind of all were mad at each other for like the first half of the year. Then I wrecked. I wrecked Michael at Charlotte. Charlotte down the front.

[Two Beer]

Straightaway.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep. Which was the. The worst of it. Tony junior and Tony Senior. And everybody probably wanted to kill me then. Plus some of Harvick's crew because I almost ran over them on pit road trying to back into the garage. I remember we got to Talladega Saturday or something, walking around in the garage between practices, and I saw Tony Jr. And I said, hey, I feel like this is how I remember it. It's so vague in my mind, but I was like, I don't know what you're thinking, but I'll tell you this. I wouldn't mind getting back together. And I was hoping he would say the same. And he did. I didn't know he might tell me to.

[Two Beer]

Off.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. But I was like, man, I. I'm. I don't like. I don't like this. And I don't know how you feel, but I. I'd like to get back together. And so that's kind of when the conversation started, I guess, for us.

[Two Beer]

To.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. I think, you know, it was a big.

[Two Beer]

Mistake. Right. But, you know, I mean, I. I do know for us, and from Tony Jr. It was like we're going to take what he had being you, what he had, what he was sitting in, and we're gonna go outrun him with it every.

[Dale Jr.]

Week.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And we're going to show him at the same time, we're going to outrun other people.

[Dale Jr.]

Too.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, and that was the. That was what was presented to us. And we, you know, I mean, took that in, you know, inside of us, like we're here to outrun you. You know what I mean? Because you left us.

[Dale Jr.]

Feeling. Oh.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, and. And I would say, you know, it was. It was weird. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? Oh.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. I'll never, you know, forget. It was weird seeing you over there when you're supposed to be.

[Dale Jr.]

Here.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, and even when we were. Get wrecked, you know, Charlotte, you know, sit. Like, tempers really flare, you know, through a lot of people. It was like, you know, y' all need to stay over here and don't do nothing stupid, you know, one of them deals. Yeah. Which we didn't, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know. Yeah. But, yeah, I'm glad nothing bad.

[Two Beer]

Happened. That right. I am.

[Dale Jr.]

Too. You know, I mean, we might not have been able to get back together. There might have been hurt.

[Two Beer]

Feelings. But I think. I think with it happening, I ain't saying it was a good thing, but it was a good thing, you know, to a. To a point that it showed, you know, you and us. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean?

[Two Beer]

Yeah. How close we really are, maybe. You know what I mean? And it just, you know, I think, you know, us getting back together after that deal, kind of, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know. Yeah. I hated that it took all that for me to understand what I had with Tony Senior and Tony Junior. Not that I didn't. I didn't. I didn't know what I had, but I felt like maybe anybody could make cars do that, you.

[Two Beer]

Know?

[Dale Jr.]

Right. And I felt like, you know, hey, maybe. Maybe I need to go see if that's true. And, you know, I learned that it ain't that easy. Yeah. And I missed the trust. I didn't appreciate, I guess the trust, too, that you have working with.

[Two Beer]

Family. Right. You know, you know, what you got. You.

[Dale Jr.]

Can'T.

[Two Beer]

No. You know what I mean? You know, at the end of the day, you know, even if you didn't. Let's just say, even though you. If you didn't bring your best. A game. You know what I mean? But in the same sense, you knew that that car was 100%, you know, safe, 100% capable of doing them things because the people behind.

[Dale Jr.]

You. Oh.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. That's what, you know, I mean, I've always enjoyed working with, you know, you and, you know, the.

[Dale Jr.]

Yuris.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, that. That family atmosphere of, you know, we all had each other's back even when we didn't. On the terms of that deal.

[Dale Jr.]

There. If I could go back in time, I'd love to have done the Bud deal.

[Two Beer]

Over.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Because I, you know, first off, 010203 were a blur. I'd love to have had a. Another shot at doing that better. And I would have never. I would have never made the. I would have never made that change to be. To move away from Tony Senior and Tony Junior. When we got back together, there was another sort of thing that happened that really maybe didn't have to happen, but I felt like. And I don't want to speak for Tony Junior and Tony Senior, but I felt like that when I got back with Tony Junior and Tony Senior. We go a little ways down the road together in 06, and I felt like. I was feeling like Tony Jr. Was getting a little restless. Like, hey, man, at some point, you know, I want to know what it's like to be the crew chief and like, how long were we going to be able to kind of have him accept his role under his dad? And maybe I was making something that wasn't nothing, but it was. There was a. There was an effort, I would say, within the company to have Tony Senior shift laterally right out of Tony Junior's way. Right. And lift Tony Jr. Up into that role. And I think that was. That was probably. That was probably something that.

[Two Beer]

Was. I don't think Pops. But I don't think Pops wanted to do that, you know? Cause he was still in our shop, or I don't call it our shop, you know, I mean, I know. Yeah, he was still there in there every.

[Dale Jr.]

Day.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, I mean, because he, you know, I mean, he was. Who groomed us to be what we were. Yeah. And, you know, I mean, turning the reins over to Tony Jr, you know what I mean, Pop still, you know, I mean, like, even. Even when your dad would, you know, tell him, you know, I mean, he needs to back away a little bit and let Tony Jr do this or that. In the same sense, he's still. He was Tony Senior. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. He's like. His work. Work ethic is.

[Dale Jr.]

Just.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Crazy. Yeah. I think we, you know, we kind. I don't remember much. About 0607. We had some pretty decent speed car. Tomorrow's coming in. We're running that car a little bit, but I remember a ton of engine.

[Two Beer]

Failures. Blow up a lot.

[Dale Jr.]

Man. We blew up a.

[Two Beer]

Lot. I do remember going testing that thing at Bristol and you freaking. Just complaining the whole, oh, the car tomorrow.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. It was so.

[Two Beer]

Bad. And you made me go get a set of welding gloves, these big, long welding gloves, mitts that we changed the brakes with. And you were like, this thing's like driving a. You're, you're. You're like just rubbing blisters on my hands. I need, I need. Go. Give me them welding gloves. You actually went and made laps with.

[Dale Jr.]

It.

[Two Beer]

Holy. With them welding gloves on out there. Yeah. But that's when, you know, I mean, that car, when it came around, you know, I mean, it allowed you to run some bump stops. And some different things. And other race teams probably had some better stuff, you know, or maybe a little bit more technology than we had. But in the same sense, we spent a lot of time in.

[Dale Jr.]

Lakeland. Yes, we did. Yes, we ran a lot of laps at Lakeland. I remember.

[Two Beer]

That. Trying to figure that stuff out. And just we were like, this is the biggest piece of we're messing with, you know, from what we.

[Dale Jr.]

Had. That car tomorrow was frustrating. Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. Download apparel? Visit shop.dirdemow media.com we're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T shirt again. Check it [e-mail] this show is sponsored by Better.

[Advertiser]

Help. The holiday season is right around the corner, and balancing family expectations, travel, and trying to make everything perfect can be really tough. And what's even worse is sometimes you forget about taking care of yourself. That's why BetterHelp is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you. Incorporating therapy into your new or existing traditions can help you slow down and take care of yourself during what can be a joyful but sometimes hectic and lonely time of the year. The holidays look different for everyone. Maybe it's baking your great aunt's sweet potato pieces or starting something new like a quiet night in with friends. Therapy can be one of those new traditions, too. Better Help gives you space to pause, reflect, and feel more grounded. They match you with licensed therapists based on your goals and preferences. And if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. With over 30,000 therapists and more than 5 million people served, BetterHelp allows people to close the year with clarity instead of chaos. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you. Our listeners get 10% [e-mail] DaleJr that's betterhelp.com DaleJr Pacifico is a Mexican.

[Dale Jr.]

Lager brood to be discovered. It's like fresh tracks on a powder day like that uncharted trail a stone's throw away like the perfect wave on a sunny day. Pacifico find your own way. 21 plus drink responsibly. Imported by Crown Import, Chicago, Illinois. Me and Tony Junior decide we're going to go do this other deal. Yep, you had the opportunity to go correct. Why didn't you.

[Two Beer]

Go? Well, you know, and I've, I've told you probably before and I've told Tony Jr. We've talked about this several Times afterwards, you know, since things have played out, you know, and it was. He, like. He said, that was the best decision you probably ever made. And this is him talking to me. But at the time, in my heart, I knew, you know what I mean? Something just kept telling me it wasn't right, you know, And I. And I knew your dad was gone. He's been. He had been gone from.

[Dale Jr.]

Us.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. But I was the person. I was like, man, I still. I'm there, you know? I mean, I'm working at this place because this man gave me an opportunity, you know, And I'm gonna work here until either it catches on fire or they kick me out or fire me, you know what I mean? And I believe Tony Sr. Was already gone. He was doing the Junior Motorsports deal. Yeah. But Tony Jr. Told me, pulled me in the office. He says, two beer. Listen. He says, it's over. The train is.

[Dale Jr.]

Done.

[Two Beer]

Really? Yeah. This is the comment. He was like, it's over. He says, as soon as you made your decision, you know what you were gonna do. He says, you know, you have the opportunity. You can go with us. And I said, you know, I would love to, you know. You know, I told him, I said, I love you like a brother. I said, but at the end of the day, it just ain't right for me. I said, going odor doesn't feel right to me for some reason. I says, and a lot of them might have been fear, you know what I mean? And I'm not too proud to admit that it might have been some fear of something new because of what I've always had. Driving in that place every day, doing that same job I've always.

[Dale Jr.]

Done.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. But in the same deal, you know what I mean? I always. I wanted more for myself, too. Every year I wanted something different. I wanted to. You know, I mean, I wanted to be a car chief. I never really thought I wanted to be a crew chief, but, you know, I mean, I wanted to do something, you know, I mean, a little bit more and a little bit more and build myself. And I was like. I told Tony Jenner, said, I don't think I can go over there and be your car chief. You know, am I going to be that, you know, person? He says, well, I don't know, you know, right now. He said, I haven't got over and ironed out things yet and seen the team. And I said, yeah, but I said, I need to know these answers. I said, here. I said, if I stay here, I can do a year, you know, And I Could stay with Gibson and be a car chief, you know, and stay here and not change nothing. And, you know, for me, it might have been some hurt feelings, you know what I mean, from me to you and from him, you know, to me. But in the same sense, I didn't want that, you know, I did not want to hurt feelings. And I was, you know, every shape, form, fashion, I was like, man, I just hope they truly understand what I want. And I think, you know, when it finally came down, you know, I mean, and we went our ways, separate ways, you know, as years went on and on and on, and it was like he came back to me and he was like, dude, he's like, you know what I mean? The decision you made was 100% the way you should have.

[Dale Jr.]

Went.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. He's like, I couldn't. Cause I was, you know, I was very vocal, outspoken. Didn't mind calling you if I needed to. Sorry about that. But, I mean, I.

[Dale Jr.]

Didn'T.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, I mean, because, you know, at the end of the day, you know what I mean? We worked hard, and we knew what. What we wanted, and we knew the people around us, you know what I mean? But in the same sense, I think going over there, I needed to be politically.

[Dale Jr.]

Correct. Yeah. You had to clean it.

[Two Beer]

Up. Had to clean up my, you know, my church voice. Yeah. But in the same deal, you know, Tony Jr. Couldn't save me no more and that. And I'm not saying he ever saved me at dei, but he got me protected. You know, we were all family, and I wasn't family. And that's. That's the fear. You know what I mean? The fear part of.

[Dale Jr.]

It. Oh, yeah. That was a risk. I thought that was, you know, y'. All. Y' all stayed back. Tony ends up crew chief, your car, chiefing. Y' all had great success. Mark comes in there, y' all battling for wins. Yeah. At what point, I guess, do you decide, you know, I know Tony's. That team would end up basically moving over to shr.

[Advertiser]

Right.

[Two Beer]

Right.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep. But he all went through the gin thing and all kinds of stuff.

[Two Beer]

Right? Yeah. I mean, everything got pretty much to us. Was told to get out of Highway 3, move everything to the Ginn.

[Dale Jr.]

Building. Yeah. Which is just across.

[Two Beer]

Mooresville. Right. So we up and we move all the eight shop stuff to over there and again and do the. The partner, the Mark Martin and Eric Almeros shared her.

[Dale Jr.]

Ideal. And then what was the culture like in that building?

[Two Beer]

Similar. No, no, no. It was more work, but it was we were still up for us.

[Dale Jr.]

Still had all your boys, still had.

[Two Beer]

Our boys, small team, you know what I mean? But in the same sense, we stuck to them boys, small team. And then there was just a of lot. A lot of other people want to know what we had being spring suspension parts and stuff like.

[Dale Jr.]

That. Because some new.

[Two Beer]

People. New people. Right. And you didn't trust.

[Dale Jr.]

Him.

[Two Beer]

Right. And I think that was a downfall for me. Being the outspoken individual was never gonna let nothing tarnish what Tony Senior and Tony Jr. Worked towards, Spindle wise suspension parts wise and stuff, and let that stuff get out there. And I protected it a lot and it damn near cost me my job over there in that portion of that one year to the point to where, you know what I mean? Management and me were face to face and I told them, I don't trust no one, never have. And my contract was a handshake and nothing more than that here. And they were not going to just come in here and take what we've worked all these years for, even though them people aren't here no more, you know, but I would protect all this stuff until they, you know, I mean, got rid of me.

[Dale Jr.]

There. Did. Did Gibson come to you one day and said, hey man, we're all going somewhere else? It felt.

[Two Beer]

Like. Well, he talked about it, you know, and we. I seen Stuart, you know, hang lingering, you know, through the garage and he was putting things in Gibson's ear. And Gibson came. Tony.

[Dale Jr.]

Gibson. Tony Singer or Tony.

[Two Beer]

Stewart? Yeah, Tony Stewart was talking to, talking to Gibson. And I, I really didn't know at the, you know, for like the first couple weeks what he was talking about until Gibson came to me and he said, hey, I may have us a deal, you know what I mean, to either go, you know, to Gibbs or, you know, to a new team. Yeah, well, if Stuart stayed. Oh, yeah, you know what I mean? He was wanting to restructure his deal over there or he may, you know, go and start his own gig. That's all he would say. I didn't know it was called sh. I didn't know nothing at the port at that time. And I said, well, just let me know because I knew this deal here wasn't. Wasn't for next year. Yeah, you know, but we ended up, you know what I mean, doing the swap and all going over.

[Dale Jr.]

There. The whole.

[Two Beer]

Team. Whole team, yeah. Picked.

[Dale Jr.]

Up. And how did that work? How does a team leave one organization go to.

[Two Beer]

Another? They never, I mean, at the end they do nothing. They knew you never get fired it's coolest thing ever. I mean, you. You never have to go to this room or that room. And they say, we're laying off these people. That people. You say, hey, I have a job now. This past deal, you know what I mean, being when it's got, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know, you were at Stewart House for 16 years until they.

[Two Beer]

Closed. From the beginning to the.

[Dale Jr.]

End. Yeah. From the beginning to the.

[Two Beer]

End.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. What was it like when you heard that that was going to shut down? Well, you know, the form of it is still going.

[Two Beer]

Today.

[Dale Jr.]

Yes.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. But, you know, when we got all. Got together, all 300, whatever, you know, in the lobby, we didn't know, you know, what really was going to be told. You know, we've heard rumors, but what really got told on the terms of just, you know, we have nothing for y' all next year. We have a good severance put together, a good bonus program put together for you if you would stay to the end of the year. We understand if you can't, but y' all need to, you know, explore your options, go look for.

[Dale Jr.]

Jobs. Was there a massive like F you to that or, you know, the leaders of that organization, does that feel like they was turning their back on you or was it all like, hey, all right, we get.

[Two Beer]

It. I think the, you know, I mean, for me, for me, the writing was on the.

[Dale Jr.]

Wall.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. Year or two prior, the writing was on the performance. You know, the performance wasn't where it used to be, what was accustomed to doing. And you know, a lot of times, like I say, you know, you come in there and you used to, you know, for me, when I went there, obviously, Tony Stewart was your.

[Dale Jr.]

Dad.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. That's the way he, you know, I mean, he presented himself and he treated us. And that's one thing that I loved the most. About 16 years prior to that, you know, being there three or four years before the end, there was none of that, you know what I mean? You had Covid, you know, that year and then. And obviously this. When this new car came around, you know what I mean? But you've vaguely never seen him, you know, and listen, nothing against him, but you know what I mean, he was just as pissed about the performance as anybody else, but in the same sense, you know what I mean? If you didn't, if you wasn't a racer and you didn't understand the writing on the wall, you didn't need the. Probably be.

[Dale Jr.]

There. Yeah. Anyway, but, well, you still work for the Haas factory team. I mean, so it didn't really shut.

[Two Beer]

Down? No, no, it just transitioned over, you know, and got.

[Dale Jr.]

Smaller. Yeah. You know, so at one point you're thinking they're shutting it.

[Two Beer]

Down.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. And then there soon after you learn, oh wait, they're. They're not shut it all down and I might have a chance to kind of.

[Two Beer]

Stay.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. That all happens in what, how.

[Two Beer]

How. Well, we got it. We got told in May, you know, of. Of last year. We got all told in May that SHR was pretty much done. We didn't know that, you know, obviously in May. We didn't know what was happening to this place. We just thought everything was going to be sold. And at the end of November. We were told at the end of November, whatever the date was, you know, I mean, you were not going to be allowed back here. So go look for a job. Pretty much. And for me that was a trying time, you know what I mean, of going out searching because I never really had to do that in this industry. And when you got 300 people trying to buck, you know, trying to find something in the same place you are is tough. That being said, you know, transitioned over, you know, in probably, I would say November. I want to say. Probably I want to say somewhere around September, you know, you know, got to talking some people, you know what I mean, about the hostile, you know.

[Dale Jr.]

Happening.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. An opportunity to stay if I wanted it. And it was just. To me, it was a no.

[Dale Jr.]

Brainer.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? So what's your role.

[Two Beer]

Today? Pretty much everything that I was doing.

[Dale Jr.]

Before.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And more. I mean, way more. And like I said, we are whittled down. We're way.

[Dale Jr.]

Down.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, I mean when you're talking 300 some people, we're sitting there now, you know what I mean, with maybe 15 people really, you know, on. On our actual cup deal.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. That is.

[Two Beer]

Tight. Yeah. So we're, we're, you know, I mean, we're doing multiple things. I was just wrapping a car this morning.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. You know that. Yeah, that's back. It's just kind of doing it the way you started doing bush.

[Two Beer]

Days. Yeah, 100%. That's why I do it, you know, and that's why I.

[Dale Jr.]

Stayed. Hey, do you think that the industry misses is. You think the industry doesn't have guys like that anymore coming in? A lot of things have changed. Covid and other thing. And guys aren't really like that gung ho to be a jack of all.

[Two Beer]

Trades.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. You know, guys are more like my job is this, this is what I'm in charge of. I'm not worrying about anything else. This is what I.

[Advertiser]

Do.

[Dale Jr.]

Right. Don't ask me to do this because that's not what I do. This is what I do, you.

[Two Beer]

Know, I mean, for me, I don't have the degree, but I am engineer, you know what I mean? I can do it if I need.

[Dale Jr.]

To.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. You know, but like you're saying specialized people, you know, you just. You don't have that jack of all trades that can do it.

[Dale Jr.]

All.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. And there's few and far between those, you know, those people like.

[Dale Jr.]

Us. Yeah, that's.

[Two Beer]

Right. You.

[Dale Jr.]

Know. Yeah. Well, man, I. I've enjoyed this. You guys have had a pretty decent year. Trying to get custard.

[Two Beer]

Going.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Bush stuff's running rather pretty good. Yeah. A couple of guys trying to win a championship in the bush series or the xfinity series and. Yeah. What's like the. What's your five year.

[Two Beer]

Plan? Well, you know, Status quo. Yeah, exactly. I mean, keep it digging, keep moving. You know what I mean? I mean, at the end of the.

[Dale Jr.]

Day.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. This is all you ever know. This is what you.

[Dale Jr.]

Do. How old are.

[Two Beer]

You? I'm.

[Dale Jr.]

48. Yeah. How long you want to.

[Two Beer]

Work? Well, I love to quit a day, but I.

[Dale Jr.]

Can'T. Dang. Yeah. I thought you loved.

[Two Beer]

It. Hey, exactly. But you also got to work.

[Dale Jr.]

What? Get paid, keep making.

[Two Beer]

Money. You got to keep making.

[Dale Jr.]

Me. I understand.

[Two Beer]

That.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. How often do you see Tony.

[Two Beer]

Jr. I see him regularly. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? What's that? Well, every.

[Two Beer]

Day. Every other day I seen pull in. Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Y' all live across the street.

[Two Beer]

Right? Across the street, yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. What's he been up to? He's building race.

[Two Beer]

Cars. He's pretty busy now. Yeah, he's real busy, you.

[Dale Jr.]

Know. So he's lost a lot of.

[Two Beer]

Weight.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. Looking good, actually. You know what I.

[Dale Jr.]

Mean? Yeah, I.

[Two Beer]

Know. Slammed down to the old school.

[Dale Jr.]

Dude. He's under.

[Two Beer]

200.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Two Beer]

Yeah. I told him, I says, a little bit of scare like that got you.

[Dale Jr.]

All. You know, he had a little physical thing. It's all good now. But he's. I saw him at the racetrack the other day. He said, how about you weigh us at about 185? He goes, I'll be there. I can be there in a.

[Two Beer]

Week. He's getting near.

[Dale Jr.]

Us. He's.

[Two Beer]

Crazy. Cut out all.

[Dale Jr.]

That.

[Two Beer]

Glad. Yeah, he's doing.

[Dale Jr.]

Good. I.

[Two Beer]

Know. Yeah. I tried to get him out. No different than you. I tried to get him out there running with me and we working out and he.

[Dale Jr.]

Just. You're still running? Yeah, we're working.

[Two Beer]

Out.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. Try to get out on the.

[Two Beer]

Road. Yeah. Not, not as, not as much as I used to, but I do get out.

[Dale Jr.]

There.

[Two Beer]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. All right, buddy. Well, I appreciate you coming back.

[Two Beer]

Through.

[Dale Jr.]

Anytime. This was a fun.

[Two Beer]

One.

[Dale Jr.]

Anytime. Yeah. Part two. Yeah. Kevin Pannell and the Dale Jr.

[Two Beer]

Download. Yes.

[Dale Jr.]

Sir. All right, so that was part two of Kevin Pinnell or two Beer? Two beer. Two beers. Both are correct. And great to have him come back through, kind of finish out the conversation of his career and just fill some gaps and holes for me in my own memory. Great guy, hard worker, kind of a, you know, a great example of somebody who's, you know, dedicated their life to the industry and, you know, he's kind of been through a lot and seen a lot, experienced a lot. So very, very happy to have him come through. And he's a great friend and I consider him family. So awesome to be able to have him come through. I enjoy the first part of our conversation, so we wanted to finish it up. All right, so that's the show. I hope you guys enjoyed it. Another two parter. Sometimes, you know, it's up to me. I guess when we bring some of those in for the second, second installment, I just felt like we, we didn't get to everything we needed to in the first one with Kevin. So hope you enjoyed number two. And yeah, we'll see you next time. Check out DirtyMomedia on Instagram, Facebook X and.

[Two Beer]

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[Dale Jr.]

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[Two Beer]

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[Dale Jr.]

More. Check out these boots. They've got the best.

[Two Beer]

Gifts. My holiday shopping.

[Dale Jr.]

Hack. Join the.

[Two Beer]

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[Dale Jr.]

Free. Big gifts, big.

[Two Beer]

Perks. That's why you wreck.