Podcast Summary: The Dale Jr. Download – "Let's Talk About The Trial..."
Episode Release: December 9, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Dale Jr.), Mike Davis
Guests/Co-hosts: Kelly Earnhardt Miller (Dale Jr.’s sister and business partner)
Episode Overview
This episode dives deep into the ongoing high-profile NASCAR antitrust trial involving 23XI Racing (Denny Hamlin, Michael Jordan), Bob Jenkins, and NASCAR itself. The show features candid commentary and insider perspective from Dale Jr., Mike Davis, and later Kelly Earnhardt Miller as they unpack the biggest developments, the business stakes, and their anxieties for NASCAR’s future. The crew also reflects on recent news within the sport and pays tribute to two NASCAR figures they've recently lost.
1. Opening Banter: Sports Video Games & Show Energy
[00:00–05:29]
- Show opens with the hosts playfully bantering about NCAA Football dynasties, smack-talking results, and recapping virtual championship wins.
- Memorable moment: Mike’s detailed recounting of winning the national championship in the video game, including a last-second play.
"With five seconds left, hike the ball... Wildcat reverse pass. He brought the safety down into the box. Big mistake. Over the top." – Mike Davis [02:00]
- Light jokes about in-game mechanics – NIL money, transfer portals – and friendly ribbing among Dale Jr., Mike, and Kelly.
Tone: Playful, easygoing, and irreverent, setting a familiar “between friends” vibe for the main show.
2. In Memoriam: Michael Annett & Rick Hodges
[05:29–09:25]
- Transition to a somber note: Discussing the losses of:
- Michael Annett, former Junior Motorsports driver and Daytona winner
- Rick Hodges, renowned NASCAR truck driver for multiple teams
- Dale Jr.:
“He was doing the same, trying to be ready every single week... I was so thankful to see him get a victory and understand what, you know, be able to realize what that felt like in Daytona.” [07:04]
- Reflections emphasize both men’s hard work, humility, and broad respect in the NASCAR garage.
3. Hot Topics in NASCAR News
[09:25–27:27]
3.1 Chris Gabehart Leaves JGR – To Spire?
- Shocks over Chris Gabehart leaving Joe Gibbs Racing’s competition director role, likely heading to Spire Motorsports.
- Dale Jr.:
"I think, you know, Chris has been a staple there… Shows you how important to me, I mean, they really respect him over there and he's been very successful." [10:43]
- Dale Jr.:
- Discussion of Gabehart’s value, his impact on the team, and speculating why he’d make the move.
3.2 Nick Sanchez Out at Big Machine
- Nick Sanchez’s sudden exit from Big Machine: “It’s late in the year, tough to get another ride... maybe he’s got options.”
- Praise for Sanchez’s talent and edge; noting the sport "needs guys like that."
3.3 Ty Dillon at Kaulig; Cup Series Stability
- Surprise at Ty Dillon returning to Kaulig Racing, despite manufacturer shifts and dwindling Chevrolet support.
- Mike Davis:
"He did overachieve. I’m not sure where Ty’s ceiling is, but... he did more than I thought he was capable of." [16:04]
- Mike Davis:
- Trend: 34 out of 36 Cup Series drivers returning in 2026; debate if that stability is good (“owners aren’t being too reactionary”) or if the sport needs more turnover.
3.4 Rookie of the Year Discussion
- Discussion about a “lame-duck” Rookie of the Year battle (Connor Zillich basically unopposed).
- Hosts lament sometimes lackluster rookie classes, but urge not to “blow it up” when it happens.
- Mike Davis:
"Some years there's a very good rookie of the year battle. Some years there’s not. That’s okay. Don’t blow it up." [19:20]
- Mike Davis:
4. Quick Event Recaps
4.1 Martinsville Race Length
[23:40–25:29]
- Brief aside about increasing race length at Martinsville for network TV reasons. Reasons proposed include meeting TV time slots and providing fans more action.
4.2 Snowball Derby Controversy
[25:29–34:46]
- Recap of the dramatic late-model short track race:
- Steven Nassey wins after Ty Majeski, the dominant car, is black-flagged for a questionable alleged jump restart.
- Debate if the call was fair:
"Being wrong is worse than not making the call at all… I just would have held that call and not made it." – Mike Davis [33:01]
- Discussion about the difficulty of officiating, nature of “ball-and-strike” calls, and how the ending tainted the event.
5. Main Segment: The NASCAR Antitrust Trial
[37:30–102:28]
5.1 Setting the Stage
- Mike brings in sister Kelly Earnhardt Miller, framing both as "unbiased" – not Charter owners, but longtime insiders.
- The trial pits 23XI Racing and Bob Jenkins against NASCAR, centering on the business model, Charter agreements, and the direction of the sport.
5.2 Personal Reactions & Big Stakes
- Both hosts voice sadness and disappointment that the trial (and accompanying leaks) have aired private, sometimes unsavory “dirty laundry.”
- Kelly:
“I'm sad that this is the position that the sport is in, and I'm sad for the sport and the fans... I can't believe that either side would want [these things] to come out.” [41:17]
- Mike:
“It’s just the whole thing is very disappointing… I don't see how any of this is helping us as a sport.”
- Kelly:
Key Trial Themes:
a) NASCAR’s Track Ownership
- Debate over whether NASCAR’s control of racetracks stifles competition.
- Both caution: forcing NASCAR to sell racetracks would likely lead to the destruction of historic venues, as no one is building new racetracks or willing to operate them at a loss.
"If NASCAR and Marcus doesn’t own these racetracks... they’re going to turn into developments... In 10 years, we’ll be racing on a bunch of street courses." – Mike [44:21]
b) Driver Ambassador (“Winner’s Circle”) Program
- Surprise that teams pay $300K per entry to fund this, which takes drivers out of sponsor commitments.
- Both think NASCAR, not the teams, should foot this bill, as the program benefits promotion of events.
c) SRX Series: Is It a Threat?
- Texts reveal NASCAR executives viewed the former SRX series as a threat to their TV deals — surprising to Dale/Kelly, who considered SRX more “made for TV entertainment” and never credible competition.
- Dale:
“I never would have worried or considered SRX an issue or a problem... Why not look at what they’re doing and figure out a way to work together?” [54:45]
d) 23XI Investment & the Charter System
- Discussion of the huge investment by 23XI Racing (building, charters, etc). Their demand for permanence and value in the Charter agreement is “the foundation of why they want to go to court.”
- Kelly:
"Charters are trading for $45 million on a seven-year, not permanent agreement... I think it’s crazy."
e) Is Racing Supposed to be Profitable?
- Racing is not (historically) a lucrative business for team owners; it’s about breaking even.
“You’re going to spend a lot of time pooling together resources financially to enter the car and go compete, and your plan is… to walk out of there without owing any money. Not walking out of there with a 30% profit.” – Mike [68:13]
- Dale worries about "franchise" model—permanent charters worth $150M or more, creating a huge barrier to new team entry and separating Cup from its feeder series.
f) Can Free Enterprise (Performance-Based Purses) Work Now?
- Referencing discussion by Landon Cassill and Parker Kligerman: Should TV/series money go directly into race purses, so teams “earn” their keep purely on performance, as in the past?
- Counterpoint: Today's costs are vastly higher, sponsor marketing changes make it tough for teams to rely on old purses alone.
g) Looking for Compromise
- Both sides (teams, NASCAR) need to compromise.
- Kelly:
“Ultimately I’d just like to see compromise on both sides... we all need a better understanding of that and a compromise for the teams that, like you said, you know, what are we racing for and where's the floor to make it a good business model.” [94:57]
6. Notable Quotes & Takeaways
- On the Charter Franchising Dilemma
"Once [charters] become permanent, they then become franchises. There is no going back. It changes the sport forever." – Mike Davis [77:33]
- On Motorsport as a Viable Business
“Owning, you know, being an owner or participating in motorsports of any kind, has never been a profitable business. ... Racing has always been this way.” – Mike Davis [68:13]
- On the Emotional Toll and Future
“I was very disappointed in some of the comments made about individuals in the sport, particularly Richard Childress... That just can’t go unanswered or be swept under the rug.” – Mike Davis [97:00] “When Daytona shows up, we’ve got to be all back together... We don’t know how we get there that quickly, but we’ve got to go into Daytona all going, ‘Alright, man… we all figured out how this is going to go.’” – Mike Davis [98:07]
7. Final Thoughts and Recommendations
[102:28–end]
- Both agree that the France family (NASCAR’s founders) deserve to remain at the helm, stressing the importance of legacy and owner autonomy.
- Both propose:
- Higher, percentage-based funding to teams
- Long-term (but not necessarily permanent) charter deals
- Exploring a cost cap, with recognition that it’s contentious but may be needed
- Structural reforms to keep racing accessible, exciting, and viable for all stakeholders
- Hopeful, but wary—everyone acknowledges the trial is damaging, but want to believe in a middle ground that keeps NASCAR healthy and united.
Key Timestamps
- 05:39: Tribute to Michael Annett and Rick Hodges
- 09:25: Start of current NASCAR news wrap-up
- 37:30: Main segment begins: Introducing the trial discussion
- 44:21: Risks of forcing NASCAR to sell tracks
- 47:28: The “Driver Ambassador” funding surprise
- 53:51: SRX “threat” conversation
- 63:27: Debate on permanent franchises vs. open competition
- 74:43: The origins and intended function of charters
- 94:57: Kelly’s big-picture wishes, desire for respect and compromise
Summary for Newcomers
This episode is vital listening for anyone keen on the business and politics of top-flight auto racing. It's an unusually open discussion about the future of NASCAR, shaped by the explosive trial between its teams and governing body. Candid, reflective, and occasionally pained, Dale Jr. and his team give a privileged look behind the curtain: the tensions between old and new racing values, legacy vs. innovation, and the struggle to keep the sport not just alive, but authentic.
Recommended for:
- NASCAR fans concerned about the sport’s future
- Industry insiders navigating the business of motorsports
- Anyone curious how racing’s money, power, and politics actually function behind the scenes
For a "play-by-play" on the ongoing trial:
Check out "The Teardown" with Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi for daily recaps.