Let's Talk About The Trial...

Summary

Podcast Summary: The Dale Jr. Download – "Let's Talk About The Trial..."

Episode Release: December 9, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. (Dale Jr.), Mike Davis
Guests/Co-hosts: Kelly Earnhardt Miller (Dale Jr.’s sister and business partner)

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Episode Overview

This episode dives deep into the ongoing high-profile NASCAR antitrust trial involving 23XI Racing (Denny Hamlin, Michael Jordan), Bob Jenkins, and NASCAR itself. The show features candid commentary and insider perspective from Dale Jr., Mike Davis, and later Kelly Earnhardt Miller as they unpack the biggest developments, the business stakes, and their anxieties for NASCAR’s future. The crew also reflects on recent news within the sport and pays tribute to two NASCAR figures they've recently lost.

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1. Opening Banter: Sports Video Games & Show Energy

[00:00–05:29]

• Show opens with the hosts playfully bantering about NCAA Football dynasties, smack-talking results, and recapping virtual championship wins.
• Memorable moment: Mike’s detailed recounting of winning the national championship in the video game, including a last-second play.

  "With five seconds left, hike the ball... Wildcat reverse pass. He brought the safety down into the box. Big mistake. Over the top." – Mike Davis [02:00]

• Light jokes about in-game mechanics – NIL money, transfer portals – and friendly ribbing among Dale Jr., Mike, and Kelly.

Tone: Playful, easygoing, and irreverent, setting a familiar “between friends” vibe for the main show.

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2. In Memoriam: Michael Annett & Rick Hodges

[05:29–09:25]

• Transition to a somber note: Discussing the losses of:
  • Michael Annett, former Junior Motorsports driver and Daytona winner
  • Rick Hodges, renowned NASCAR truck driver for multiple teams
• Dale Jr.:

  “He was doing the same, trying to be ready every single week... I was so thankful to see him get a victory and understand what, you know, be able to realize what that felt like in Daytona.” [07:04]

• Reflections emphasize both men’s hard work, humility, and broad respect in the NASCAR garage.

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3. Hot Topics in NASCAR News

[09:25–27:27]

3.1 Chris Gabehart Leaves JGR – To Spire?

• Shocks over Chris Gabehart leaving Joe Gibbs Racing’s competition director role, likely heading to Spire Motorsports.
  • Dale Jr.:

    "I think, you know, Chris has been a staple there… Shows you how important to me, I mean, they really respect him over there and he's been very successful." [10:43]

• Discussion of Gabehart’s value, his impact on the team, and speculating why he’d make the move.

3.2 Nick Sanchez Out at Big Machine

• Nick Sanchez’s sudden exit from Big Machine: “It’s late in the year, tough to get another ride... maybe he’s got options.”
• Praise for Sanchez’s talent and edge; noting the sport "needs guys like that."

3.3 Ty Dillon at Kaulig; Cup Series Stability

• Surprise at Ty Dillon returning to Kaulig Racing, despite manufacturer shifts and dwindling Chevrolet support.
  • Mike Davis:

    "He did overachieve. I’m not sure where Ty’s ceiling is, but... he did more than I thought he was capable of." [16:04]

• Trend: 34 out of 36 Cup Series drivers returning in 2026; debate if that stability is good (“owners aren’t being too reactionary”) or if the sport needs more turnover.

3.4 Rookie of the Year Discussion

• Discussion about a “lame-duck” Rookie of the Year battle (Connor Zillich basically unopposed).
• Hosts lament sometimes lackluster rookie classes, but urge not to “blow it up” when it happens.
  • Mike Davis:

    "Some years there's a very good rookie of the year battle. Some years there’s not. That’s okay. Don’t blow it up." [19:20]

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4. Quick Event Recaps

4.1 Martinsville Race Length

[23:40–25:29]

• Brief aside about increasing race length at Martinsville for network TV reasons. Reasons proposed include meeting TV time slots and providing fans more action.

4.2 Snowball Derby Controversy

[25:29–34:46]

• Recap of the dramatic late-model short track race:
  • Steven Nassey wins after Ty Majeski, the dominant car, is black-flagged for a questionable alleged jump restart.
  • Debate if the call was fair:

    "Being wrong is worse than not making the call at all… I just would have held that call and not made it." – Mike Davis [33:01]

  • Discussion about the difficulty of officiating, nature of “ball-and-strike” calls, and how the ending tainted the event.

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5. Main Segment: The NASCAR Antitrust Trial

[37:30–102:28]

5.1 Setting the Stage

• Mike brings in sister Kelly Earnhardt Miller, framing both as "unbiased" – not Charter owners, but longtime insiders.
• The trial pits 23XI Racing and Bob Jenkins against NASCAR, centering on the business model, Charter agreements, and the direction of the sport.

5.2 Personal Reactions & Big Stakes

• Both hosts voice sadness and disappointment that the trial (and accompanying leaks) have aired private, sometimes unsavory “dirty laundry.”
  • Kelly:

    “I'm sad that this is the position that the sport is in, and I'm sad for the sport and the fans... I can't believe that either side would want [these things] to come out.” [41:17]

  • Mike:

    “It’s just the whole thing is very disappointing… I don't see how any of this is helping us as a sport.”

Key Trial Themes:

a) NASCAR’s Track Ownership

• Debate over whether NASCAR’s control of racetracks stifles competition.
• Both caution: forcing NASCAR to sell racetracks would likely lead to the destruction of historic venues, as no one is building new racetracks or willing to operate them at a loss.

  "If NASCAR and Marcus doesn’t own these racetracks... they’re going to turn into developments... In 10 years, we’ll be racing on a bunch of street courses." – Mike [44:21]

b) Driver Ambassador (“Winner’s Circle”) Program

• Surprise that teams pay $300K per entry to fund this, which takes drivers out of sponsor commitments.
• Both think NASCAR, not the teams, should foot this bill, as the program benefits promotion of events.

c) SRX Series: Is It a Threat?

• Texts reveal NASCAR executives viewed the former SRX series as a threat to their TV deals — surprising to Dale/Kelly, who considered SRX more “made for TV entertainment” and never credible competition.
• Dale:

  “I never would have worried or considered SRX an issue or a problem... Why not look at what they’re doing and figure out a way to work together?” [54:45]

d) 23XI Investment & the Charter System

• Discussion of the huge investment by 23XI Racing (building, charters, etc). Their demand for permanence and value in the Charter agreement is “the foundation of why they want to go to court.”
• Kelly:

  "Charters are trading for $45 million on a seven-year, not permanent agreement... I think it’s crazy."

e) Is Racing Supposed to be Profitable?

• Racing is not (historically) a lucrative business for team owners; it’s about breaking even.

  “You’re going to spend a lot of time pooling together resources financially to enter the car and go compete, and your plan is… to walk out of there without owing any money. Not walking out of there with a 30% profit.” – Mike [68:13]

• Dale worries about "franchise" model—permanent charters worth $150M or more, creating a huge barrier to new team entry and separating Cup from its feeder series.

f) Can Free Enterprise (Performance-Based Purses) Work Now?

• Referencing discussion by Landon Cassill and Parker Kligerman: Should TV/series money go directly into race purses, so teams “earn” their keep purely on performance, as in the past?
• Counterpoint: Today's costs are vastly higher, sponsor marketing changes make it tough for teams to rely on old purses alone.

g) Looking for Compromise

• Both sides (teams, NASCAR) need to compromise.
• Kelly:

  “Ultimately I’d just like to see compromise on both sides... we all need a better understanding of that and a compromise for the teams that, like you said, you know, what are we racing for and where's the floor to make it a good business model.” [94:57]

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6. Notable Quotes & Takeaways

• On the Charter Franchising Dilemma

  "Once [charters] become permanent, they then become franchises. There is no going back. It changes the sport forever." – Mike Davis [77:33]

• On Motorsport as a Viable Business

  “Owning, you know, being an owner or participating in motorsports of any kind, has never been a profitable business. ... Racing has always been this way.” – Mike Davis [68:13]

• On the Emotional Toll and Future

  “I was very disappointed in some of the comments made about individuals in the sport, particularly Richard Childress... That just can’t go unanswered or be swept under the rug.” – Mike Davis [97:00] “When Daytona shows up, we’ve got to be all back together... We don’t know how we get there that quickly, but we’ve got to go into Daytona all going, ‘Alright, man… we all figured out how this is going to go.’” – Mike Davis [98:07]

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7. Final Thoughts and Recommendations

[102:28–end]

• Both agree that the France family (NASCAR’s founders) deserve to remain at the helm, stressing the importance of legacy and owner autonomy.
• Both propose:
  • Higher, percentage-based funding to teams
  • Long-term (but not necessarily permanent) charter deals
  • Exploring a cost cap, with recognition that it’s contentious but may be needed
  • Structural reforms to keep racing accessible, exciting, and viable for all stakeholders
• Hopeful, but wary—everyone acknowledges the trial is damaging, but want to believe in a middle ground that keeps NASCAR healthy and united.

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Key Timestamps

• 05:39: Tribute to Michael Annett and Rick Hodges
• 09:25: Start of current NASCAR news wrap-up
• 37:30: Main segment begins: Introducing the trial discussion
• 44:21: Risks of forcing NASCAR to sell tracks
• 47:28: The “Driver Ambassador” funding surprise
• 53:51: SRX “threat” conversation
• 63:27: Debate on permanent franchises vs. open competition
• 74:43: The origins and intended function of charters
• 94:57: Kelly’s big-picture wishes, desire for respect and compromise

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Summary for Newcomers

This episode is vital listening for anyone keen on the business and politics of top-flight auto racing. It's an unusually open discussion about the future of NASCAR, shaped by the explosive trial between its teams and governing body. Candid, reflective, and occasionally pained, Dale Jr. and his team give a privileged look behind the curtain: the tensions between old and new racing values, legacy vs. innovation, and the struggle to keep the sport not just alive, but authentic.

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Recommended for:

• NASCAR fans concerned about the sport’s future
• Industry insiders navigating the business of motorsports
• Anyone curious how racing’s money, power, and politics actually function behind the scenes

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For a "play-by-play" on the ongoing trial:
Check out "The Teardown" with Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi for daily recaps.

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Transcript

[Dale Jr.]

What's that? Carolina.

[Mike Davis]

That's right. Carolina. The 20, 26 national champions.

[Dale Jr.]

That's the. That's the first legit. When you won.

[Mike Davis]

Oh, whatever. Mug. I wouldn't call this one legit.

[Dale Jr.]

That was more wow. I mean, I would. I mean, hey, I take it that way.

[Mike Davis]

Hey, that was.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know if we'll. Well, I say that and then I watch an extra point.

[Mike Davis]

Yep, I know. Like, hey, season number two in our new dynasty, college football 26. I was. I was hired out of. Out of Charlotte to take over uncc.

[Dale Jr.]

I read you quit.

[Mike Davis]

I was hired up.

[Kelly]

My. My sources told me that he was approached and he had to take the job to 80.

[Mike Davis]

84 overall team year two. We went and won the Natty TJ.

[Kelly]

Do you have one yet?

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, we're just carrying on.

[Kelly]

No, no, no. Yes or no?

[Dale Jr.]

In the new game.

[Kelly]

Yeah, we only played two, but do you have one?

[Dale Jr.]

No, it's okay.

[Mike Davis]

Jay was held to three points in the playoffs.

[Kelly]

Okay.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, I had a terrible game.

[Mike Davis]

It was ridiculous.

[Kelly]

Three points.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, it was so bad. It was the worst game I've ever had, but it's.

[Mike Davis]

That's true. It was the worst.

[Dale Jr.]

It was really bad.

[Mike Davis]

I am the national champions. That's right.

[Dale Jr.]

Did he tell you? I'm sure you have seen the replay of it.

[Kelly]

Oh, yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Last second bomb. Oh, you'll see the videos. Going to have him in the clips.

[Dale Jr.]

I got a clip of it, too.

[Mike Davis]

I was up 28, 14 in the fourth quarter. Dude came back, tied it up, actually went for two and scored. And now it's 29, 28.

[Dale Jr.]

He does this a lot.

[Mike Davis]

And I'm thinking, all right, I knew. I didn't think I was going to win the game. So I'm thinking, all right, here we are. This is how it is. I'm a lose. I'm sitting there twiddling thumbs. Got about two or three plays left, and then with five seconds left, hike the ball. I had two clock on, and I'm like, screw it. Game's over. Well, I got one play. I got one more play. I'll run. It's Wildcat. Reverse pass.

He brought the safety down into the box. Big mistake. Over the. Over the top.

[Dale Jr.]

First of all, I can't believe he got. He had like 40 seconds and like timeouts and everything, and he's just letting the game run down. I'm like, why are we not calling.

[Mike Davis]

We got this.

[Dale Jr.]

No, I mean, you needed a field goal to win.

[Mike Davis]

We got this. We gonna score.

[Kelly]

Don't doubt the national championship coach.

[Mike Davis]

Hey, we got this man. So yeah, that dude, he's a sophomore. He went to the NFL draft. I don't know why. Got drafted in the sixth round. If he'd have stayed another year, he'd have been a top two.

[Kelly]

You got to offer him better nil money.

[Mike Davis]

No, unfortunately that part isn't in the game.

[Kelly]

Oh my gosh.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't even know how you would happen.

[Mike Davis]

But hey, in the off season, the national championship UNC Tar Heels have now went, thanks to the Portal, from an 84 overall team to a 94 overall team.

Question Is it leagues in trouble?

[Kelly]

Question did you do that via portal or via both player Edits oh, you.

[Mike Davis]

Can'T edit the skill.

[Dale Jr.]

I think it's, I think it's fixed.

[Mike Davis]

This one, but I haven't TJ has us locked down.

[Dale Jr.]

I haven't tried it. It was locked down last game but it never locked it down. So it didn't lock it.

[Mike Davis]

I haven't messed with it this year.

[Dale Jr.]

It I don't think no gimmicks this year. I I don't know how they do the overall rankings because I don't like my defense is supposed to be like a 99. Yeah and it like I don't have but like how do you get the 99 though? Because I don't have that high of players.

[Mike Davis]

My team, it says my team's an overall 94 on defense or something but.

[Dale Jr.]

You have like what, three, four players are 90?

[Mike Davis]

I have two players total offense or defense in the entire 85 man roster that are over 90.

[Dale Jr.]

That's what I don't get.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Like I thought an overall would just be an average of all your players.

[Kelly]

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[Mike Davis]

Newville were making their list, but some didn't know Walmart has the best brands for their gifts. What about toys? Do they have brands kids have been wanting all year?

[Ad Host 1]

Yep.

[Mike Davis]

Barbie, Tonys and Lego. Gifts that will make them all cheer. Do you mean they have all the brands I adore?

[Ad Host 2]

They have Nintendo, Nespresso, Apple and more.

[Mike Davis]

What about so the who answered questions.

[Dale Jr.]

From friends till they were blue.

[Mike Davis]

Each one listened and shouted three from Walmart who knew? Shop gifts from top brands for everyone on your list in the Walmart app, the following is a production of Dirty Mo Media.

This is the most fun I've had in this chair in the last hour and a half. Yes.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know if we've ever argued. Did I piss you off over the.

[Mike Davis]

Weekend or I'm still sour that I wasn't the best man at your wedding.

[Kelly]

Who was your best man, Dale?

[Mike Davis]

Tj.

Tj, you don't need a cool vest for that race. What are doing you thinking? Get them, DJ hell. Way to start the show.

[Dale Jr.]

All right, then.

[Mike Davis]

We got a great episode of the Dale Jr. Download here for you today. This episode's brought to you by Rigistics. Registics is a proud partner of Dirty Mo Media and Junior Motorsports. If you sell discount appliances and merchandise, you need to get in touch with Registics. They work directly with retailers and manufacturers to get you the best deals from the leading home improvement brands. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visit registics.com that's R E G I S T-I X.com so starting off the show on a on a sad note, for sure, this is.

It's been a tough week. Michael Annette, who drove for us here at Junior Motorsports, won at Daytona, passed away this past week. And Rick Hodges also passed away.

This week. Rick was truck driver for. For the bud guys and also went on to shr and and worked with Rodney Childers and Kevin Harvick and Rick Hodges, just a great guy.

[Dale Jr.]

Everybody knew him.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, I mean, Michael and Ed and both Rick, super dudes. I was really proud of Junior Motorsports in the platform and home that we gave to Michael Annette. I feel like that we helped Michael realize some really great moments for himself, notably the win in Daytona.

And Travis Mack being his crew chief.

[Dale Jr.]

Just gonna say that was a fun team.

[Mike Davis]

It was, you know, and it gave. That gave Travis a platform to sort of go where he is today. And.

Man, Michael just a really, really good guy that if you spend a little time talking to him, humble.

He wanted to do well. He tried. He tried really hard to make the most of the opportunity that he had as a driver. And I mean, literally, you know, he grew up playing hockey and he decided one day you know, to sort of shift his focus. And now he continued to love hockey and play hockey the rest of his life. But big hockey fan. Yep. Just, you know, having no background, no family, heritage, nothing decided at, you know, a later point in life that he want to become a race car driver. And so you know, I thought that, you know, he worked really hard at it, and when he was here, all the way up until the very end of his career, you know, we. We had no problem giving him the best effort we could because we knew that he was doing the same, trying to be ready every. Every single week and be able to go out there and do a good job. And, man, I was so thankful to see him get a victory and understand what, you know, be able to realize what that felt like in Daytona. And then, you know, with Rick, even after the Bud days, you know, if I ran into him in the garage area, we always stopped and talked. He. He always. He just had such a great attitude and personality, so well respected.

[Dale Jr.]

It was not a weekend that I didn't walk by and he waved or I waited or said hey or something.

[Mike Davis]

Just an incredible attitude. Hard, hard worker, dependable.

He's going to be missed. But he was a big part of a lot of teams and a lot of years in the NASCAR garage.

[Dale Jr.]

Everybody knew him. And with Michael, too, away from the track, like, getting to know him a little bit through, he was really good friends with Jonathan in that. And Michael was a great guy, like, really, really good dude. Great. Comes from a great family.

A lot of really good people, and. And, you know, it's definitely going to be a big loss there with Michael. He's just. You hate. You hate when this stuff happens.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. Text Michael. It'd been a while, maybe a year or so ago. We had stayed in contact a little bit since he quit driving. And.

Yeah, he had a. He had a pretty. He had a pretty cool attitude and personality. But both those guys gonna be missed. Just wanted to.

To take an opportunity to mention how much they mean to us and. Yeah. So anyhow, moving on, we're gonna.

Talk a little bit about some of the things that have been going on in the sport. Later on in the show, my sister Kelly's going to come in here, we're going to discuss the trial. So hang around for that. Basically, you know, we're kind of right in the middle of the trial. And.

I think that honestly, tj, man, every day my opinion changes. I know about this thing. You know, you learn something new, something becomes something's uncovered and all those things. And.

It just. I've kind of withheld thoughts and personal or public thoughts or I've withheld sort of, you know, really voicing any kind of opinion because it feels like that, you know, every day my feelings about this sort of get swayed. But anyhow, it's. It'd be fun to talk to Kelly. Kelly's got a really good, you know, perspective and a lot of common sense. So it'll be interesting to kind of hear her. Her opinion of what she's thought so far, and I've certainly got my own. But a couple other things that have happened in the sport being reported that Chris Gabehart, the director of competition at Joe Gibbs Racing, has left and the rumor is, I guess, that he's heading over to Spire. But how surprised were you to hear that? I was certainly shocked.

[Dale Jr.]

I'm pretty shocked. I mean, I think, you know, Chris has been a staple there and kind of using him as the mentor and then on the box for Ty, that's when you're putting him on that car, that. That shows you how important to me, I mean, they really respect him over there and he's been. He's been very successful. And to me, it's a guy that you definitely don't want to lose. But, you know, I've always respected Chris and he comes from a short track background as well, and it's fun to see some of the side projects that he's done.

[Mike Davis]

But.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep, I mean, I mean, I'm surprised and I don't know if the Spire rumor is true or not, but that'll.

[Mike Davis]

Well, that's what you read on Internet, but yeah, it's a big loss for. For jgr and it kind of makes you wonder.

You know, what. What the. What the general temperature is, I guess when a guy like that's gonna leave the building. It appeared that he had position, you know, he had been elevated out of the. Away from the crew chief position from Denny Hamlin into the director of competition, which is a very critical, important role. And I thought, man, this guy is perfect for this.

And they will be. Well, they'll be well positioned with him in that role. So it's hard to imagine how he got away or what would have been the result or the cause, I guess, of the departure.

[Dale Jr.]

But do you think it was because he was kind of back on the box a little bit?

[Mike Davis]

Well, I think, you know, they kind of found themselves in a bit of a bind in the mid season with the 54 and Ty and I think he was just kind of, hey, man, I'll come in here and see if we can't get this thing headed in the right direction. This is a very critical car in our. In our fleet and you know, Ty is critical to the future of the company. We need to get this turned around. If I can help make a difference, I Will, I don't know that he chose or wanted to go that do that, but he did it out of responsibility maybe. Sure.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

But I think that the idea may have been that he, you know, his director of competition role I would assume would have been superseding in the long term objective. Right. But another big surprise, Nick Sanchez out at Big Machine. And the. It's a surprise for one because he ran really well last year. And the other surprise is the timing. Like it's late. Like it's a tough part of the year to find out that you don't have a job for next season or you don't. It is. And maybe, maybe. Listen, Nick saying these are the funny things about these deals is we do not know that Nick Sanchez doesn't have something else going on and that he's out at Big Machine because he's got this other opportunity. We don't.

[Dale Jr.]

It might be him.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. So I don't, Yeah, I don't want to look like a fool sitting here going, man, what a surprise. What a shock. What's Nick Sanchez going to do? Hell, he might already know, but could.

[Dale Jr.]

Be him, could be them, could be mutual. I mean.

[Mike Davis]

Well, in his letter he says in his note that he posted and shared on social over the weekend, I was informed that I will not be driving the 48 for big machine in 2026. So it sounds like he just learned this the way the rest of us did. The last line, though, when one door closes, another one opens, excited about what's next or what's ahead. So it sounds like maybe there's a plan. Maybe he's got an option.

[Dale Jr.]

He should have options, in my opinion.

[Kelly]

Is 7 top 5? Is 12 top 10 slash I'll, you.

[Mike Davis]

Know, screw the paper statistics. I watch you. We all watched the test for sure.

[Dale Jr.]

I saw it.

[Mike Davis]

The kids, talent, speed. Yeah, kids got something.

[Dale Jr.]

So he would qualify. He would qualify. And I mean he definitely, to me, he's, he was, every time he was ready to go out, qualify, you knew he was probably going to lay down a good lap and just with the eye test like that.

[Mike Davis]

He's decent and he's got some talent. The other thing too, I like is that he pisses some people off. Right. I mean, I don't love that because sometimes he pisses me off or he pisses one of my guys off.

[Dale Jr.]

I know it.

[Mike Davis]

I don't really, you know, that's not. But as a fan or as a broadcaster and as somebody who's like wanting to fall in love with the sport, we need It. We need guys like that. Yeah, right.

[Kelly]

Especially guys that are competing, too. Like, not just guys that are, like, sucking and just causing havoc. Like he's a good race car driver, but creating some drama for us.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

No, who are you talking about? Who's sucking and causing havoc?

[Kelly]

I didn't say a name.

[Mike Davis]

He's talking about somebody. It sounds like he's talking about somebody.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Who?

[Dale Jr.]

Name some guys here.

[Mike Davis]

I didn't know the guy.

[Kelly]

I'm just saying in general.

[Mike Davis]

Who would fall under that?

[Kelly]

I don't know.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, you're beeping, Backing up.

[Kelly]

What do you mean? I didn't say a name? I'm just saying it's good to have someone.

[Mike Davis]

Okay.

[Dale Jr.]

Anyway, Nick. Nick is one of the aggressive guys. If you leave the door. If you leave one car length and one foot, he's going to take it.

[Mike Davis]

Ty Dillon is returning to colleague. Wow. I'm surprised by that because I thought when colleagues got shut off, shut out of the Chevrolet deal, because I thought, listen, Ty Dillon can walk in here and tell me I'm full of. I thought Ty Dillon was at colleague because of RCR and that connection.

[Dale Jr.]

Come on in, Ty.

[Mike Davis]

All right. So RCR is now going to be working with Rick Ware.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Right. So colleague is sort of shoved off of the Chevrolet.

[Kelly]

That faucet ship.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. Yeah. Get the hell out of here. And they're over in Dodge's camp now, but Ty's going to stay and he's earned that this year, I would say. So.

[Dale Jr.]

He's done a good job.

[Mike Davis]

He overachieved.

[Dale Jr.]

He did overachieve.

[Mike Davis]

I'm not sure where Ty's talent and potential and ceiling is, but I would say that he did more than I thought he was capable of doing.

[Dale Jr.]

He did that bracket challenge. I mean, he was surviving every week.

[Kelly]

He was also creating headlines with it.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. No, I thought Ty did a great job and he did overachieve.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. But, man, is it going to be a frustrating year. I would predict that next year for him will be one of his toughest. Personally, physically, mentally, because expectations. Well, no, he's racing for colleague and they've got little to no support in terms of engineering and resources because they're not. They're not going to. Chevrolet's not going to be helping them.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it's gonna be tough for sure.

[Mike Davis]

You're not driving Dodges and Cup.

[Dale Jr.]

This is a whole new thing now.

[Mike Davis]

It's tough. It'll be a hot. It'll be a. It'll be a hot mess.

[Dale Jr.]

But, you know, there's There is some consistency if he's coming back. You know, he's.

[Mike Davis]

He's bullheaded.

[Dale Jr.]

He is.

[Mike Davis]

You know, when he's out on the racetrack, he's bullheaded. He.

[Dale Jr.]

He knows when to fight for positions.

[Mike Davis]

He don't lay over.

[Dale Jr.]

No, he doesn't.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

And it hurts him sometimes.

[Mike Davis]

I mean, but he got to do it. He'll get you everything he can get you.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep.

[Kelly]

So ty Dillon's returning. 34 out of 36 cup drivers from last year full time are returning to their seats.

[Mike Davis]

Okay.

[Kelly]

Good thing for the sport to. Or do you. Is we need a little more turnover.

[Mike Davis]

Do we?

[Kelly]

I'm asking you.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, I think. I feel like we've had more turnover in the past, but here, like long.

[Mike Davis]

15, 20 years ago, I think it es and flows. I don't know that. I don't know that. If we see a pattern, I would. I would suppose that that might be the case.

[Kelly]

You know, like, I think it's a good thing that these owners aren't being reactionary and like, well, this guy had a bad year. Let's go get like multiple years.

[Dale Jr.]

Zillich.

[Kelly]

Zillich and Suarez is moving.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but who's the other. You said 34.

[Kelly]

34 to 36 are in their same seat.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, okay.

[Mike Davis]

So Zillich is the only new.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

Okay.

[Mike Davis]

One new guy. Yeah. Is Zillich racing for the rookie of the Year by himself?

[Kelly]

Yeah, got it locked up. Congrats, Connor.

[Mike Davis]

I mean, some years that rookie of the year deal just didn't have. No, no, no, I don't remember. Kevin Conway. Yeah, wasn't it Kevin Conway? Yeah, it was Kevin Conway and extends car.

[Kelly]

It just. I don't. The rookie of the year. When. I mean, this past year.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, it was. We're almost to a point in history where you almost have to describe what the extend sponsorship was to some of these young guys.

[Dale Jr.]

There's so many. Yeah, just Google it. Listen, it was a long rookie of the year battle.

[Mike Davis]

It was wild. NASCAR was like hoping he wouldn't show up to the next race just because of the sponsor alone. But he was the only guy really going for the rookie title. Here you come. Here comes the extends car.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, we're going to extend this caution by one lap here.

[Mike Davis]

So look, I think, you know, they're. I'm not alarmed, but if it's a. If it becomes a pattern, then it's a problem.

[Dale Jr.]

There's kind of miss a rookie of the year battle, though.

[Mike Davis]

I kind of do some.

[Dale Jr.]

Listen, I know it comes and goes.

[Mike Davis]

But like, well, this is the thing, all right? If. If we sit here and complain.

Like, the rookie of the year deal has happened forever. It's a tradition. Some years there's a very good rookie of the year battle. Some years there is not. This will be one of those years. That's okay. Don't blow it up. Like every time there's like a little hiccup or some kind of anomaly.

We all make so much noise about it that NASCAR feels like they got to go blow it up. Hence the playoffs. Hits. Hits the playoffs and all the other bull. That that's happened. That none of us really like that that happened because we felt like, oh, man, we can't. We got to change that. So don't, you know it's going to be a lame duck rookie of the year season.

[Dale Jr.]

You know what I was kind of hoping, though? I was kind of hoping for like a Jesse Love and Connor rookie of the year battle, something like that.

[Mike Davis]

You ain't gonna get it.

[Kelly]

That would be great for the.

[Dale Jr.]

That's what I'm saying. It'd be cool if it happened.

[Mike Davis]

It would have been cool. But it's not going to happen, so. But let's not, you know, it's fine. Let's not disparage the rookie of the year deal. Say it doesn't matter. Say it needs to go away, like the yellow stripe or whatever, you know.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, well, next year we might have a great one.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

You never know.

[Mike Davis]

This will be the one year where you won't need the yellow stripe on the back of the car, so.

[Kelly]

Because when's the last time you had a good rookie of the year battle? What?

[Mike Davis]

Kurt, Cole Custer and what was that group feel like? I remember Cole. It was like three or four of them.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, there was a.

[Mike Davis]

There was just a couple years ago.

[Dale Jr.]

It was more than a couple. I think it was probably. Maybe. Maybe a couple. I don't know.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. Last year's wasn't too crazy. I mean, last year's was awful. No, last year's was. Was pretty decent. You had.

[Kelly]

It was svg.

[Mike Davis]

Oh, really?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

You had.

And Barry.

[Dale Jr.]

That's right.

[Kelly]

No, Barry was. That was two years. Barry was at shi.

[Mike Davis]

Two years ago.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. So two years ago you had a good one.

[Kelly]

Then maybe it's on us that we're not doing enough with it.

[Mike Davis]

Don't blow it up. Don't destroy it.

[Kelly]

No, I'm saying you're gonna it up.

[Mike Davis]

Leave it alone.

[Dale Jr.]

Stop when it's there.

[Kelly]

That's what I'm no, that's what I'm saying is when it's there, I think we need to do a better job.

[Mike Davis]

Of when it's there, get excited about it. When it's not. Shush.

[Kelly]

I'm trying to shish. I'm trying to help it.

[Mike Davis]

Y' all gonna screw up the rookie year deal.

You're gonna ruin it.

[Kelly]

I don't think my words are gonna ruin it.

[Mike Davis]

I'm talking to you. I'm talking to everyone else out there.

[Dale Jr.]

Just let it go.

[Mike Davis]

I'm talking to people that could ruin it.

[Dale Jr.]

They could tweet about it all the time like, don't leave it alone. Just let it go. Next year's will be better.

[Mike Davis]

Maybe yours will be better.

[Dale Jr.]

Maybe it won't.

[Mike Davis]

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[Dale Jr.]

I mean, it's kind of true.

[Mike Davis]

I know, but I feel like I'm.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, that's a dumb comment.

[Mike Davis]

I shouldn't talk. I shouldn't talk.

[Kelly]

It doesn't bother me.

[Mike Davis]

I shouldn't talk. I know, but it shouldn't talk to you that way. I'm sorry. Only, T.J. it's Christmas time. Hey, where's my manners? Where's my good? Where's the good part of me?

[Dale Jr.]

That was stupid, Travis.

[Mike Davis]

Damn it, T.J. if you would have.

[Kelly]

Known the answer and not asked it, then I wouldn't have had to provide a dumb answer.

[Mike Davis]

Well, so I.

[Kelly]

Your homework.

[Mike Davis]

I. I read some people talking on social media, and they do bring up a good point. The races there were really short time wise. And so, you know, maybe, you know, maybe if. If. If they don't. If they left it at 400 laps.

Judging by how short in time the races had been there in the 90s and before, it would have been one of the shortest races of the year. So maybe they're just adding the 50 laps to maybe get it within that time period of average.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, maybe.

[Mike Davis]

Whatever that is. Three hours and 15 minutes or whatever.

[Kelly]

Network's probably like, hey, we need to fill this.

[Mike Davis]

That could have. That's a great point. They.

[Dale Jr.]

Hey, that's a good idea.

[Mike Davis]

You know, you had a dumb. You had a dumb thing, then you had a good thing.

[Dale Jr.]

You totally redeemed yourself.

[Mike Davis]

You did. I bet you it was the networks.

[Dale Jr.]

Going, we need longer.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. 2 hours, 45 minutes ain't gonna cut it. Make it longer. That's probably exactly what happened. There you go.

[Kelly]

And if you're a fan. Yeah, more racing.

[Mike Davis]

Better. I'm in the booth. I'm pumped.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, I don't.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, that's not. I can't wait. What's not gonna bother you? That. No, I'm pumped.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

No, give me more.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Because you always talk about, we're shorting these.

[Mike Davis]

Make it 500 laps. Let's go.

[Dale Jr.]

So I like. I mean, Wilkesboro is awesome because we catch lap traffic there and it's hard to pat.

[Mike Davis]

I keep having to remind myself because I keep forgetting that I'm actually going to work the race.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, that's going to be a good one.

[Mike Davis]

Damn right.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, it's going to be fun One.

[Mike Davis]

All right. Snowball Derby. John. Watch that yesterday.

[Dale Jr.]

Dude, what a long week.

[Mike Davis]

Did you watch the race? I finish. I Did you see it?

[Kelly]

I saw highlight.

[Mike Davis]

Highlight. So Steven Nassey Wins in his 15th attempt. Steven Nasty has, has came close. He's gotten thrown out in Tech.

[Dale Jr.]

He's kind of won it before, but then didn't.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah, so, I mean, this guy's or something. He's been a fixture in the super late models, especially around that area for a long time. So, you know, a popular win, you might say. But Ty Majeski dominated the race. Best car by far. No one even closed. He gets penalized for a restart violation. At the end of the race, they had a restart that he clearly jumped and he admitted. So they waved it off, reset him, restart again, and then they black flagged him for jumping. The second restart time of Jeski says, I got a little bit of chatter over the radio that Nasty was going to maybe try and jump me. Talking about the first restart. I was trying to anticipate that a little bit and I clearly jumped it. I knew they were going to call the next one close, so I decided to gradually increase my speed to the line. Firing in the box. Obviously it was close and wanted it to be right at the line, which I felt like I was. They made a ball and strike call in the biggest race of the year. I've had some lows in my career and this one's probably taking the cake. So listen.

There'S probably two schools of thought here.

He broke the rule. If you're watching the replay and you say, man, he went a half a car early, which is what the race director said. The race director said it was close, but he felt like he jumped early. It's black and white. He jumped. Even if it's a half a car before the line, which the race director feels like that's what happened. He's calling it. He broke the rule. He did not go in the zone. And so that's kind of one train of thought. Or the other train of thought is, man, it's hard to really tell. There is rule. There is words in the rule book that say you're allowed to gain speed to the box. You're allowed to sort of roll fast toward the box, then go. And you could argue that he was just increasing his speed gradually to the box. And then he went right at the line. And. And so. And you. And in the second train of thought there, you could say, well, we've been sitting around raining. It's been a miserable weekend. These teams have had to stay here another day to Monday. We went through this entire race which tied, dominated, clearly. And why would you call the call that close if he, if even if he did fire a foot before the line or a half a car before the line, is it really necessary to bring such a stink onto the whole weekend? Like this, like, this is how you.

[Dale Jr.]

Want it to end.

[Mike Davis]

This is how you want it to the end, but also this is how you want to. This is kind of the start, you know, this isn't the end of the season. This is kind of like, you know, this is kind of the conversation that's going to be dominating.

You know, the.

Message boards or social media up until, what, we race again in January. So, I mean, they had. They just, you know, ASA had the big, you know, the sale. Bob sold. You're, you know, we're all kind of transitioning into this new, new, new year. We're all getting geared up, you know, short track payment racing is, you know, it's important that it's all going well. Right. And this is kind of. This has kind of put a little stink on it. I don't want to be critical of race of the race director because I have a series and boy, is it a hard job. And man, have we screwed our, you know, some calls. Like, it's. It's a imperfect thing, but I just feel like that, man, I don't know. You know.

You'Re really deep into a long weekend.

And I don't know nobody, none of us really know for sure exactly when he lift the damn throttle up.

[Dale Jr.]

Yep.

[Mike Davis]

Right now it looks like he increases his speed, but, man, I mean, he kind of launches right at the line.

[Dale Jr.]

And he is trying to roll him. He's laying back.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Dale Jr.]

I mean, and Ty had the dominant car all day.

[Mike Davis]

I don't know. I don't. I'm looking at it over.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't know how you can call it.

[Mike Davis]

We're watching it right here over and over and over and over. And I honestly have to tell you that if I was standing at booth and I'm watching this and it's easiest. It's easy for us to play Monday morning quarterback. We're sitting here. It's easy because we're watching this replay over and over and over. We're not doing this in real time, but, man, I'm keeping that call in my pocket because that's just too tight. If you make that call, you can't get up. You can't be wrong. You know what I mean? We hear. We hear that from NASCAR all the time. Sometimes they're like, you know, our call is a bit delayed because we can't make the wrong call. We got to make sure. We're making the right choice. We don't want to be wrong because, man, if you're wrong, that's worse than making, you know, that's worse than making the call at all. Right.

[Dale Jr.]

So close to the line right there. I don't know how you being wrong.

[Mike Davis]

I guess my point is being wrong is worse than not making the call at all.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, but they made the call really quick here because it wasn't a lap later and said, oh, we hear on the radio that might be black because you have to. Yeah, I just.

[Kelly]

Did Ty, though, mess up. Like, you just got called for it. You have the dominant car. You have 12 to go.

[Mike Davis]

Like, hey, I'll be honest, that's a great point.

[Dale Jr.]

He probably didn't need to do that.

[Mike Davis]

He didn't need to be that aggressive.

Like, to your point, you just got caught. He just got called for jumping it early. Why wouldn't you flip it and go deep into the zone?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah, and they would all wrecked.

[Mike Davis]

They would have.

[Dale Jr.]

They would have all wrecked.

[Mike Davis]

It would have. It would have raised the percentage or the chance of a wreck happening for sure.

[Kelly]

And guess who wins the. Guess who most likely is going to win, though.

[Mike Davis]

You know what would have happened. I promise you this, T.J. and you'll agree, if he would have waited to go in the middle of the zone, third, fourth, fifth, those rows would erect.

[Dale Jr.]

Oh, they're going to wreck.

[Mike Davis]

They'd have drove because the guys in the back would have been driving into the. Driving into a restart that. That was not happening. Right.

[Dale Jr.]

Because yeah, they're all trying to get up.

[Mike Davis]

They're all anticipating. Right?

[Kelly]

Yes.

[Mike Davis]

And so there would have been some sort of an accident mid pack initially after the restart, like row 4, 3.

[Dale Jr.]

4, 5, right in that area.

[Mike Davis]

But man, I don't know. I hated it for Ty. I felt like he deserved the win. I felt like that was a crummy way to lose a race, especially when you'd been there watching it rain, sitting and waiting and watching, waiting and watching. And then to be there, have to be there Monday. Nobody. Nobody wanted to be there Monday. Everybody wanted that race to happen Sunday night. You got all those guys staying overnight. You got fans in the stand on us on a Monday. I don't know, man.

[Dale Jr.]

That's really too close to call to make. That is very tough to make. I don't think I would make it.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. I'm not saying that the race director was wrong. If he believes that the jump happen, then that's that. I can. I can live with that. But I just. I just feel like I would have just held that call and not made.

[Dale Jr.]

It the first one. He absolutely jumped like big time. You could tell.

[Mike Davis]

But even if I was. Even if I was uncertain, wouldn't have you have held the call for this?

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

Ain't no way I'm. No, this is way too close. And it's the dominant cars in first.

[Dale Jr.]

Like, it's not like, it's not like the car that wasn't dominant.

[Mike Davis]

It wasn't obvious. It's not an obvious.

[Dale Jr.]

It's not obvious.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Kelly]

I'd like to know where the racetrack, like, what views is. Does he have different views?

[Mike Davis]

I would say it's. Or just somewhat similar to this.

[Dale Jr.]

I'd say it's very similar. I've been to the spotter stand.

[Kelly]

Like, I don't know.

[Mike Davis]

He's lower. He's in the middle. Look, this guy apparently is decorated. He's been around a long time. I'm telling you, we're not on the race director. I would have that guy come direct my race tomorrow. No problem. I'm, you know. Yeah, I love who we got in the cars tour, Danny, but I'm just saying I don't have a problem with the race director. I don't think it was a bad call. I just would have not called it. I just would have said, yep, it's too important, too big of a deal. Don't want that to be what we're talking about on a podcast on Tuesday.

[Kelly]

We see far worse calls in other sports get made and that's the discussion on Monday. So, like, that's. I don't think we need to overreact about this race director.

[Mike Davis]

If he jumped, clearly call it. Yeah, but that's just too tight.

[Dale Jr.]

Well, they did on the first one. I felt like, like sometimes you.

[Mike Davis]

But if he jumps the second one, clearly you call it. I get it. But it was just so close.

[Dale Jr.]

Sometimes you judge it by the way, this the outside car or the second place car, the start he gets. And who knows? If Nasty didn't have to lift a.

[Mike Davis]

Little, he went early. It's a half a car.

[Dale Jr.]

I don't even know if it's that. I mean, well, but don't you like if you're the race director, to me, like, I'm looking at where's the outside car? Is he trying to roll him a little bit? Because he is. I mean, I would too, but like, if Nasty is wheel to wheel with him coming going to the line. If Nasty is wheel to wheel with him, I don't think they are. I don't think the jump looks as bad, but since Nasty is laying back a little bit, I think it looks worse because he can clear him quicker. Yeah, so.

[Mike Davis]

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[Kelly]

I like it. It's an easy car to spot on TV from, at least for me.

[Mike Davis]

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All right, so here we are in the middle of the show, and I wanted to talk a lot about the the lawsuit going on that NASCAR and 2311 with Denny Hamlin and Michael Jordan and Curtis Polk are currently all in the middle of and wanted to bring Kelly in, my sister, who a lot of people might consider.

One of the best business minds in the sport. And I think for the most part, both of us kind of unbiased because we don't really have a charter and we're not in the Cup Series, but we're kind of we've been around this thing for a while.

But I think too, like a lot of people, we've learned a lot of things. It's been uncovered and come to light in the middle of all of this, and.

It'S been really compelling, man. But it's been, I don't know about you, but it's been dominating my thoughts if I let it.

I think there's a lot of concern about what the end result of all of this is going to be. I don't think anybody really knows, I guess, how this might all kind of shake out. And it feels like when the trial began, there was this sort of.

Ebb and, you know, there was this sort of idea that, oh, you know, looks like they're winning, looks like this team's taking the lead, looks like it's in, in their favor. And for the first week and continuing into week two, basically.

2311 has and Bob Jenkins, they have been in position to make their case, and then NASCAR will be given the same opportunity in the back half of the trial. But and the trial's running long, they wanted it to happen in two weeks. It looks like it's going to be more like maybe three, even four. Judge is very frustrated over the process and how slow this is going.

I'm curious just about that because the trial begins and 23:11 is making their case and they had Denny on the stand for a day and a half or so and then going through the rest of their witnesses and they're Just kind of, you know, they're not slow playing it. They're just taking their time and doing this thorough sort of process. And as the frustration grows and the judge is asking them to sort of pick up the speed, does that.

You know, does that. Is that a disadvantage, I suppose, to nascar, who's got to follow up? Right. Because now they're in the position of feeling rushed, pressed to sort of get all of the. The information that they have. I'd be curious to see how aggressive they are in trying to make their.

[Ad Host 2]

Case. Yeah, me as well, it seems like to me, nascar, that's kind of been the theme from the judge is like, all on NASCAR and a lot of pressure on nascar. And so then to. Then that's more. So they sitting there thinking what mistakes they don't need to make in the midst of it. And I've never been in a trial, and I don't know how long these things are supposed to. To last, but I would want to argue my case just because that's how I am as long as I could, you know, so. But I respect, you know, the time of everybody, too, between the jurors and everybody that are involved. But, you know, this is a big deal, and to your point of it, dominating your thoughts, you know, I haven't really. I don't know where I land on everything because, like, every day something new comes out. Some more interesting information. I know from the very beginning, you know, I'm. I'm sad that this is the position that the sport is in, and I'm sad for the sport and the fans and all the people that have supported NASCAR and been a fan all these years for us to get to this point, you know, I had the things that have come out. I can't believe that either side would want to come out. I feel if they knew all.

[Mike Davis]

That. I feel exactly the same way. I'm very disappointed. Yeah, I am. Yeah, I'm very disappointed. And not in. I mean, in both.

[Ad Host 2]

Sides. Yeah. Not one side or the other. I haven't really taken sides. It's just the whole thing is very.

[Mike Davis]

Disappointing. And I. I will say that I'm extremely disappointed that. That we are in this position. And I don't see how any of this is. Is going to. I don't see really how any of this is going to. Is helping us as a sport, but. So I'm kind of frustrated at both sides, but I also feel like I can agree with certain aspects of both sides of the argument. And I mean, we can get into that a Little bit.

There's just, you know, not in no certain order, but there's been a point made about NASCAR owning the racetracks. Right. And that NASCAR. I don't know that, you know, 2311 and. And I don't know that they want NASCAR to sell their tracks. I don't think that that's really. I'm hoping that's really not what they're asking. I think that they would. There's. I think they're using that against nascar because NASCAR did tell some other people that, you know, that, you know, like Marcus Smith and so forth, you know, you're gonna have to sign an exclusivity deal because we don't want anyone else running a race before we come into town. Right. And that's not unusual in other sports and arenas and so forth. And. But I think, you know, there's been something made about NASCAR owning the racetracks and that they, you know, the way they've, you know, sort of restricted use of those facilities.

Is helping the argument of 2311 and. But I think, you know, it's. It's a. It's kind of got to be. It's. It's a be careful what you wish for kind of thing, because.

Number one, like.

No one's building racetracks. Building a racetrack today is not a financial.

You know, success. It. Running a racetrack today is not lucrative operation. No one is clamoring to go out there and build any type of racetrack, rather big or.

[Ad Host 2]

Small. We tried to do that.

[Mike Davis]

Once. We did, we did. We tried to build a track in Alabama. Yeah.

I mean, we were down there and some meetings and stuff. I mean, it's crazy, but.

No one's in. No one's in the business of owning racetracks. Nobody's going to be standing on the steps waiting for those tracks to code to the highest bidder. Nobody's. And if. If NASCAR and Marcus doesn't own these racetracks.

[Ad Host 2]

Right. Who does? Yeah, who.

[Mike Davis]

Does? They're going to turn into developments. They're going to be turned into.

You know, Amazon Centers, and, you know, they won't be racetracks. And what'll happen is in 10 years, we'll be racing on a bunch of street.

[Ad Host 2]

Courses.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. You know, and. And road courses. No.

And so everybody kind of be careful around that because we need. As unique as it is, we need NASCAR to run the tracks on the tracks that they own. Right. Because it's really a lost or dying sort of business.

[Ad Host 2]

Model. And to your point to play Dev is devil's advocate to that if it's a bad business model. It's bad on tracks and so on. I kind of liken that to, like.

[Mike Davis]

Farming.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah. You know, like all the farmland being. And everybody's like, it's not. It's. It's hardly sustainable unless you're this huge farming operation to stay in business and farming. And people are upset because farmland's going away. And every time, Every time we look around, you know, there's a high rise and there's condos and there's apartments, and that's the same thing you're saying it's.

[Mike Davis]

It'S. The land is.

[Ad Host 2]

Valuable. It is. It's more valuable than the business model. So I hate to hear, like, it's a. It's a bad business model. It can be better, but the way the world is going, there's just more valuable things. I mean, think about them. The money that people are offering for data centers and all these different things that are coming out that could be in place of a.

[Mike Davis]

Racetrack. That's.

[Ad Host 2]

Right.

[Mike Davis]

Right. Yeah. You go to, you know, you go.

[Ad Host 2]

To. It's really an economic.

[Kelly]

Thing. Look at what Fontana got.

[Mike Davis]

Them. Yeah, Fontana, Chicagoland. You go over to Nashville Superspeedway.

You know, that track barely made it back onto the schedule. But if you go out there, all around is all those fulfillment centers and so forth where they sold off part of that land. But, you know, it's just. The land's more valuable as something else. Right, right, exactly. And so if we, If NASCAR or anyone really was to. Was to, for whatever reason, start selling off racetracks one after the other, they're going to be gone and disappear. And we're not going to have these big ovals and short tracks and all this stuff. We're going to be running on purpose built, you know, street courses and doing all this other silly stuff, and the sport would change identity and, you know, the.

Sport would just change incredibly away from what we've known. But that was kind of one thing that I found interesting. You know, I don't. I do understand why they're making the argument that, hey, NASCAR's tried to control these tracks and not allow other people to. You know, that's the argument that there's, you know, NASCAR's done. NASCAR's restricting the use of the facility to keep and quell any other competitor from creating.

[Ad Host 2]

Right. But people do exclusive things all day.

[Mike Davis]

Long. I know, I know why they're making that argument. But be careful, right? Because if there's a way, if it ends up going against NASCAR and, you know, the court or whatever decides that they can't own these facilities, you know, that's. What are we. We're going to be.

[Ad Host 2]

In. Yeah, going to be in trouble for.

[Mike Davis]

Sure. That'll not be very fun.

The other thing that I thought was interesting was the driver ambassador program. Bob Jenkins testified that each team pays NASCAR $300,000 for this program. NASCAR pays a little bit as well. And basically it is what used to be the winner's circle program. If you won a race, you were then put on the winner's circle program program. The team would become part of the winner's circle program. You would get more money in the, you know, in the purse. So if you were to run the, you know, if you ran a race.

You know, you. You ran and you hadn't won, you got a certain set amount from the purse. And if you win a race and get on the winner circle program, that was good. That was huge for your team because you were going to just every week bring in more money from the purse being on that program. But the driver in turn would be required to go do X amount of appearances at a market. So basically, they would be able to send you anywhere they wanted, usually.

[Ad Host 2]

For media or to promote the upcoming.

[Mike Davis]

Races. That's right. We'd get sent into town early, a couple days or a week before the race. Do, you know, local radio, tv, do a little tour, get a key to the city, something silly. And yeah, it was like a whole day, and then we'd go home. And I remember those. And this is exactly that. You know, I think about it that.

[Ad Host 2]

Way. It is.

[Mike Davis]

That. Yeah, it is.

[Ad Host 2]

That.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. You know, and I don't, you know, I am. I am surprised that the teams have to pay for that, you know, some sort of. I'm surprised that they have to put.

[Ad Host 2]

Anything. Everything that I had always heard is that, you know, NASCAR was paying well. There's a point system, basically, and then there's a payout at.

[Mike Davis]

The. Right. The way it had been, the way that I had read it, that.

[Ad Host 2]

Seems like an easy compromise they could have.

[Mike Davis]

Made. Yeah, the way that I had read it was, man, NASCAR's got this new.

[Ad Host 2]

Program. They're going.

[Mike Davis]

To. They're going to, you know, incentivize. Incentivize the.

[Ad Host 2]

Drivers.

[Mike Davis]

Yes. I had no clue the teams are putting money into.

[Ad Host 2]

This. Yeah, me.

[Mike Davis]

Neither. I would say that that shouldn't be the case. You know, I could argue the teams don't need to be putting money into that. That if NASCAR wants to incentivize the drivers, that's on.

[Ad Host 2]

Them. Yeah. And that actually makes more sense from one of the deterrents of that program that I heard in the very beginning that teams were upset because this was going to take the. We already do that for the sponsors. Right? You already go places for the sponsors and this was going to kind of take their driver's time away from that and then need to be spread. It makes a little bit more sense now that I'm paying you why they were upset. Right. Because now I got to pay.

[Mike Davis]

You. I'm paying to take my driver away. And he's gone on a Tuesday when I need him over here doing something for my partner 100%.

So that was pretty interesting. A big conversation around SRX. And I gotta be honest, look, this shocked me.

I want to say I'm a big fan and I think I'm a good friend with, with Ray.

[Dale Jr.]

Evernham.

[Mike Davis]

Right. And when he started talking about SRX and what he wanted to do, in his mind he wanted to create or recreate iroc. And the initial idea of SRX as a series that would go into these local markets and you would bring out these retired guys and. And some unique personalities, different forms of racing. Different forms of racing and offer up a grid, a car to the local.

[Kelly]

Hero.

[Ad Host 2]

Right? Yeah, I love that.

[Mike Davis]

Part. The original idea of SRX in my mind was a good idea. I will say though, I wasn't interested in it.

[Ad Host 2]

Personally. And it morphed like you've.

[Kelly]

Seen.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. But out of the gate I just didn't have the bandwidth. I didn't get into.

[Ad Host 2]

It. I watched it, I liked.

[Mike Davis]

It. Yeah, I wasn't a fan. I didn't really watch too much of it. I would see some clips and stuff and go, yeah, okay, that's cool. But it was kind of a made for TV deal and you know, I don't know, I just, I didn't get into it. And that's fine. You know, personal, personally, I wasn't that.

I certainly am so surprised since I so take. So taking, you know, no offense to anybody out there with that was SRX fans or anybody that worked in the series. Tony Jr. Worked in the series and all kinds of cool people, but.

I wasn't into it. And to hear that they were even remotely the least bit threatened is so surprising to me because they're this giant, that's nascar and SRX is just this little thing, you know, it would.

[Ad Host 2]

Take years to recreate what NASCAR.

[Mike Davis]

Is. Yeah. And they were like, there's 12 cars, right. They're just barely getting by financially. They're tearing up so much. They had no idea he's gonna tear up all that. And, you know, in the end, they couldn't make the money work. SRX went away because it's expensive to operate, and the money that, you know, the network, the viewership numbers didn't justify the TV contract, and the TV contract couldn't afford the series. And so it just financially didn't really work. You know, I am surprised by some of the comments that I read from Phelps. I mean, I'm sorry, from o' Donnell and a couple other people about, man, we got to go. We got to put an end to this. Or we got to, you know, we got to go take a look at.

[Ad Host 2]

This. And again, to me, is a little piece of the.

[Mike Davis]

Pie. Yeah. Why are we.

[Kelly]

Worried? I think the ratings is why they were worried.

[Mike Davis]

Though. I don't care. I mean, people were going to be.

[Ad Host 2]

Curious. And when I like, what were the ratings.

[Mike Davis]

Comparative? Listen.

[Kelly]

Neighbor. So an out. A redacted name in these text threads said they outrated Xfinity and trucks last weekend. It isn't some local dirt track.

[Mike Davis]

Stuff. Yeah. And it out of that, it.

[Kelly]

Was on espn, I think, like, it was big.

[Mike Davis]

Network. I know, and I'm not alarmed at all by that now, you know, I also am not the one that's having to go out and try to secure a new TV deal. And if I've got to walk in the room and go, man, I'm trying to sell a truck or a Xfinity package to a cw, and they're like, yeah, we're not going to pay you, but why X, Y and Z? Because SRX is doing these numbers and they're getting this. You know, it sort of sets the value. Right. Is that the concern, you.

[Ad Host 2]

Think? Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, I've always been told from a business perspective, competition is good for you. Competition keeps you keen. It keeps you thinking about what's next and all of that. And so, I mean, I get that, you know, but there's always going to be. I get Travis's point. There's always going to be something that. That is going to outdo you somewhere, somehow. Something, you know. This past weekend, the Gateway Dirt Nationals, highest rated show and flow racing. Wouldn't cars tour, wouldn't late model NASCAR or something of that nature want to be the highest rated? Absolutely. What do we need to do different? Yeah, you know, I don't know. So, but you got to kind of look at it. It gets you.

[Mike Davis]

Thinking. It gets you Working in that.

[Ad Host 2]

Direction. Yeah. Why does that work? What's. What's so awesome about.

[Mike Davis]

It? So, yeah, I was really surprised by that. I never saw. No disrespect, but.

I never would have worried or considered SRX an issue or a problem. And I would have looked at what they were doing and, like, to your point, Kelly, I would have look at what they're.

[Ad Host 2]

Doing. Really figured out a way to work.

[Mike Davis]

Together. Why do people like.

[Ad Host 2]

It?

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. Yeah. Can we.

[Ad Host 2]

Blend? Can we work.

[Mike Davis]

Together? Can we work.

[Ad Host 2]

Together? Yeah. What can we.

[Kelly]

Do?

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. It was interesting because, you know, you had. It did morph. You had drivers, Denny and Chase and Blaney and all these guys, but they were going over there. Chase goes over there to race with his dad. Right. Have a little fun, you know, Blaney with his.

[Ad Host 2]

Dad. Not something you can do in a NASCAR.

[Mike Davis]

Race. Yeah. And they were getting paid to go out there and do it for a little bit of money. You know, I. I get it. You know, I just, you know, and I talked to some of the cup drivers that had. The current drivers that had went over there and tried it, you know, and they were like, it's fun. It's all right. The cars, you know, the cars are. As the season goes on, the cars are kind of getting banged up and used up, and it's a little bit harder for the cars to be even. And you kind of don't know what you're getting into, whether you're going to have a really fast car. Maybe one of the cars is not doing everything right. And that's tough. That's why this. That's why it was tough for the series, I think, because over the course of the season, you know, just general wear and tear and all of those things, it, you know, it's. It's no different than your kind of pay to ride go kart track down the road. You know, you're going to show up, you're going to look at the carts sitting.

[Ad Host 2]

There. You're going to watch the first race and see which one's the fastest.

[Mike Davis]

Right? Yeah. I want to get on a good one. Put me on a good one, you know? You know, but it was. It was fun and entertaining and made for tv, and I was just really kind of surprised by that.

There were a couple lines, too. Steve o' Donnell's quoted as saying, wait till Junior says he is running an event. I was asked to run SRX and didn't really have any interest in doing it. We were getting involved in, you know, we had our late Model team and I was getting kind of getting back into driving late models. I was going to. If I was. If I. If I knew I only had enough bandwidth to run about three to five races a year, I was going to do our. And I was going to play my.

[Ad Host 2]

Car.

[Mike Davis]

Yep. Steve says they will go to North Wilkesboro with. With S.M. and Jr. If we're not careful. We need to be the first back. Yeah, I'm.

[Ad Host 2]

Surprised. Was that before Northwest Square.

[Mike Davis]

Maybe? No. Yeah, it had to been.

[Ad Host 2]

Before.

[Mike Davis]

Okay. Before this.

[Ad Host 2]

Was.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. If I had to guess, most of these text messages are anywhere around 22, 23. Yeah. So. So we had just taken. Maybe we were.

[Kelly]

Just. June 29.

[Ad Host 2]

2022. Is that the first weed.

[Mike Davis]

Eater? No, I think we. I think we ran. When did we run the first late model race.

[Ad Host 2]

There? 20, 20, 25. So 23, 23, maybe 3.

[Mike Davis]

2Y. Anyway, anyhow, it doesn't really.

[Ad Host 2]

Matter.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. I want to, you know, listen.

There, There. There's a lot of stuff about NASCAR and in all of this that I don't know. I don't know everything about how they run things, and I certainly didn't know how they felt about, you know, some things and how these tech text messages have unveiled some things. But I'll tell you one thing I do know is that North Wilkesboro came back because of Marcus Smith. Like, I.

[Ad Host 2]

Don'T. Andell Jr. Well, but yes. Give yourself some.

[Mike Davis]

Credit. I won't. I don't feel comfortable doing nascar, you know, of course, no, they didn't.

[Ad Host 2]

Put anything into making a comeback for.

[Mike Davis]

It. They didn't play any.

[Ad Host 2]

Role.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. Now they have to go. When Marcus comes up and says, man, I've got this track back.

[Ad Host 2]

Together.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. I want to put it on a schedule. They've got to, you know, go. Okay.

[Ad Host 2]

Good. Yeah. What's the.

[Mike Davis]

Consideration? Right. Yeah. But look, NASCAR never was going, guys. We got to get Wilkesboro going. Yeah. You know, physically. They were never, you know, I, I don't, you know, and I don't want. This isn't a knock to them. This isn't like a, you know, this isn't a knock to them. They shouldn't take this as an insult. But Wilkesboro is back because of everybody.

[Ad Host 2]

Else. A lot of hard work and investment from.

[Mike Davis]

Smi.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. The government, our locals government and the town.

A lot of volunteers. 20 years of volunteers. People like, you know, just even keeping the grass mode for 20 years. All of those reasons or, you know, the, the fact that they just kept the track in somewhat reasonable shape. To even be considered to be brought back. Those people should be committed. I mean, you know, we can go on about this, but I know this. O', Donnell's, like, in his text messages saying, we got to get back to Wilkesboro, but they weren't actively, like, boots on the ground.

Part of the reason why Wilkesboro is back.

And so, you know, and concerning.

[Ad Host 2]

What would overshadow them from coming back? Because they're the ultimate.

[Mike Davis]

Thing. I.

[Ad Host 2]

Know. So what is going to. You know, to his point of we need to be the first back? Like, yeah, what. What really could go there as the first thing and overshadow the biggest form of.

[Mike Davis]

Motorsports? Look, I was. I was happy to be part of Wilkesboro and its return. Whatever role I really played in all of that.

You know, we went there with our cars tour, and we got a ton of grace from fans. Fans were like, I don't care. I'm happy to be here. I want to see a race. And we. That night was a dream. It didn't even. Don't even feel like it was real.

And so, you know, I think Marcus saw that, and then me and, you know, Marcus was like, holy, we do need to bring this back. What was that? You know, Damn. You know, and so me and him go up to, you know, me and him are out in Raleigh and talking to the government and talking to local officials, and we're doing everything we can. We met with the, you know, the state officials and, you know, trying to do everything we could and.

You know, and then. And then they brought it. He brought it back. Marcus brought it back. And so I wasn't surprised to read about North Willsboro and their text messages. I was surprised to hear how they framed it. Like, we got to get back there. There. That's what we got to do. That's how we beat.

[Ad Host 2]

Xrx. I think it's hard for us to understand the threat because, like, when we look at our own business and everything that we do and how we're made up and what our dad always looked at and all the. The legacy of our family and all, I don't think we ever. We didn't ever, like, look at things as, like, a threat and deter and badmouth and talk. We look at it like, how can we make this better? What can we do together? You know, that kind of thing. And that's what's, like, the most surprising thing to me is, like, I agree. That's what I go into things with, that.

[Mike Davis]

Mindset. Bowman Gray's mentioned in there as well, and.

I don't know how I articulate this, but we, you know, we went out to the LA Coliseum. I love the idea on paper, but.

We should have never. Like, that's the part about NASCAR that's frustrating for me, is that we eventually get to where we're supposed to.

[Ad Host 2]

Be. But, like, I try a bunch of.

[Mike Davis]

Things. We try a bunch of things that we don't need to try, that don't pan out, that don't pan out, but we eventually, like, oh, this was the answer. It was Bowman Gray, you know, because, like, literally, Bowman Gray is part of our. You know, that's a part of the original seasoning that created nascar. Like, Bowman Gray is like, part of the very beginning of our sport. Like, it's like Wrigley Field. And, you know, what were we doing out in LA at this Coliseum that we had no, like, you know, personal connection to? And. But we. We eventually end up where we belong, you know, and where. Where we should be. And so I don't hate the idea of the Coliseum. I really don't. But, like, we literally had that right under our nose. And now what we've. Here we are. And so those are. And same thing with Wilkesboro. Like, Wiltsboro should have came back way before it did, right? And it just took a little bit of, you know, inspiration to sort of help some people understand.

Why that needed to happen. It's here, and here we are. But.

I think the other thing that the next thing I will kind of wanted to move to was.

23 11's of that investment in the sport.

Kelly, you. You and I had had some conversations, and one of the things that I feel like that.

If you want to look at why 2311 is doing this, look at the investment. It's insane. The building, 45 or $35 million for the shop, all the money they've spent to acquire charters, they have built an insanely respectable operation in a very short period of time.

A lot of teams like Bob Jenkins, for example, a lot of teams sort of have to have this slow churn, right, to eventually possibly build up into reasonable operations. Spire is a great example of that as well. But Denny and them came in, they put the money on the table, and they're all in. That is the. That is probably the foundation of. Of the reason, you know, why they want to go to court and try to get a better deal, right? They've put all this money in. They're doing everything they can to be a great, you know, representative of the. Of the sport, and they're Looking for, you know, they're looking for that same support coming back. And they just don't feel like that the, the charter agreement is.

[Ad Host 2]

Fair. Right. Need to even give more thought because this thought just popped in my mind. But, you know, obviously, yeah, we talked about the investment. So they've, they've sat here and they've made these investments under the business model that they knew was the business model and under the business model that Denny Hamlin's known ever since he's been in the sport. And so, you know, here he is, has brought Jordan in to the business model. They've invested all of this stuff. And then, not that it's all of a sudden a problem, but I think the real problem is the permanency, lack of permanency for the charter. Yeah, in the same breath, you know, and I said this to you in earlier, is what is it ultimately that they want? And you know, is, is it a certain level of investment return that they want? We were talking about one of the points that, you know, I thought was really interesting is there's a lot of conversation about NASCAR making $100 million last year. Well, every business that I know of is trying to be in business to be profitable. If you're not in business to be profitable, then I don't really know what you're doing in business. And most businesses want to make 30 to 50% return. So I don't know what a hundred million is of what I don't know the revenue number of NASCAR. If it's 10%, it's not that much revenue. Even though $100 million is a lot of money, but not in the scheme of the business that you're running. If it's 50%, then, hey, give up a little bit. But I think it's that permanency in terms of the seven year agreement. So they want to try to get more if it's going to be permanent. So this seven year, every seven years gives them the opportunity to negotiate for more. So I'm just really curious, like where, you know, I've seen the conversation with Jordan, you know, when he sold the Hornets, what he make, 400 million? I don't know. Something crazy, you know, is that what they're trying to get to when charters are only trading for, you know, 45 million right now? I think it's crazy that a charter trades for 45 million on a seven year, not permanent agreement, which is crazy. We've talked about that, you know, in our whole couple of years of trying to acquire charter. It's like you don't want to invest that much money when in seven years you don't know what it's going to look like. So I get that part of their argument. You know, I get that part of the argument. But at the same time, they've made a lot of investment. Bob Jenkins has made a lot of investment and he's been doing it for, I don't know how long he's been in business. Fifteen years, you know, and made the investments year after year after year and, you know, hadn't closed up or hadn't said a word or, you know, whatever it is. Right. So same thing for our business. We're in the same boat. You know, we make a little money some years. We don't make a little money some years. And we love what we do and, you know, it's what we know, it's our platform, it's our brand, you know, and we, you know, if we wanted to do something different, we would. Right. To go out and make money elsewhere or whatever. So, yeah, it's really interesting what the ultimate goal is for that they're fighting for. Well, I know what the lawsuit says they are trying to prove, but I don't know what their ultimate goal.

[Mike Davis]

Owning, you know, being an owner or participating in motorsports of any kind, of any kind, has never been a profitable.

Business. You know, racing.

We always have known that.

To go to a racetrack, whether you're running locally or whether you're running in, you know, the upper top ranks of nascar, you're going to spend all. You're going to spend a lot of time pooling together resources financially to enter the car and go compete. And your plan is, is that those resources that you piled together are going to help you pay for the process and you're going to walk out of there without owing any money. Yeah, not walking out of there with a 30% profit. Right. That.

[Ad Host 2]

Was. It's never worked that.

[Mike Davis]

Way. It's never worked that.

[Ad Host 2]

Way. I mean, I remember dad talking about, you know, 1998 with the ACDelco and different sponsorship models and all this kind of stuff. It's never worked that.

[Mike Davis]

Way. It has never, ever worked that way. And I, you know, and so Michael and Curtis walk in and pull the curtain back and go, damn, why are y' all doing it like this? Well, you know, it's kind of been the way it's always been. Racing has always been this way. Racing in any form, racing in any series, motorcycles. I don't care what it is. This is how it's always worked. It's never been a. It's never been something. People have got into it and made a lot of money and so on the competition side, but they look at it and they're like, well, we see an opportunity to turn this into something that could be. And they look at stick and ball or basketball and say, well, there's franchises, there's value, there's opportunity to really kind of make this similar. And I think that's the general.

[Ad Host 1]

Idea.

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[Kelly]

Apply. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. The holiday season is right around the corner and balancing family expectations, travel, and trying to make everything perfect can be really tough. And what's even worse is sometimes you forget about taking care of yourself. That's why Better Help is encouraging you to rewrite your traditions this season by making time for you. Incorporating therapy into your new or existing traditions can help you slow down and take care of yourself during what can be a joyful but sometimes hectic and lonely time of the year. The holidays look different for everyone. Maybe it's baking your great aunt's sweet potato pie or starting something new, like a quiet night in with friends. Therapy can be one of those new traditions, too. Better Help gives you space to pause, reflect, and feel more grounded. They match you with licensed therapists based on your goals and preferences, and if it's not the right fit, you can switch anytime. With over 30,000 therapists and more than 5 million people served, Better Help allows people to close the year with clarity instead of chaos. This December, start a new tradition by taking care of you, our listeners, get 10% [e-mail] DaleJr that's better. H E L P.com.

[Mike Davis]

DaleJr.

Landon Castle brought up some, some points during his podcast. He has a podcast with Parker Kligerman called the Money Lap. They're good dudes. Landon's a thinker, Parker as well.

And they're interesting to listen to. But anyways, the general idea, why can't it be free enterprise? Why can't all of the money, right, that's being dedicated to the teams through this charter agreement? Why can't that be dumped into the race purse and the teams go out and compete for the money through performance alone? Right. To become profitable.

Landon thinks or said that it's not on NASCAR to have to guarantee that every team in the Series is profitable. Right. There's no business, there's no business model in the world that exists like that. Right. Or everybody would just own NASCAR teams. And so why, why isn't there a pathway through performance at the racetrack, on the racetrack where NASCAR would be responsible to reward the teams that are actually out there performing? Let's remember that the charters were created strictly as a guarantee to get your car in the field, right? Yeah, there were a couple things going on in the sport back then. You had field fielders and starting parks that were sort of, you know.

[Ad Host 2]

Clawing up some of.

[Mike Davis]

The. They were. Yeah, they were. They were there to run a few laps and park the car and grab the money from the back of the purse and go home. And they, that was a business model they made work. Right. And they were going home and making, you know, a couple thousand dollars a.

[Ad Host 2]

Week. And they weren't making an investment like some of the other.

[Mike Davis]

Teams. Yeah, the other teams are out there going, well, damn, you know, that ain't right. So NASCAR said. And you had teams also trying to sell sponsorship and they would sell the sponsor to, let's say, selling a sponsor to, to Arby's. And they're like, you know, yeah, we're going to run 36 races and Arby's is like, you're going to be in all 36 on the broadcast. Well, we hope so. We hope we qualify into all of them. Well, what do you mean, you hope so? You know, and so gave some security. Yeah. Gave out. That was the reasons for the charter. Here's your, here's your guaranteed spot. Go sell that to a partner. And we're going to eliminate the starting part because we're not going to pay very well outside of the charter positions. And that's what it.

[Ad Host 2]

Did.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And now here we are with literally, you know, pretty much every race, only 36 cars showing up to run. Running as an open team is a super duper challenge.

The charters weren't ever intended to be a franchise. They call them charters for a reason. They didn't call them franchises. Right. And they wanted to. I think, you know, NASCAR's intention was to sort of, you know, steer away from it, you know, being a franchise.

[Ad Host 2]

Model.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

[Ad Host 2]

So. So initially when they were trading charters back and forth for a million, 2 million, 3 million, it was of kind. Kind of like your guaranteed.

[Mike Davis]

Start. That's it. Which was like buying point. It was buying the.

[Ad Host 2]

Points. Right. So if I got a sponsorship from somebody, I don't mind spending that money to then guarantee myself because then my sponsorship works out or whatever. And then that goes against, I mean, that goes for what they're saying. Performance. Even thinking about the starting parks and the other teams. If you're investing and you're making more money and you're finishing the top 10, you're making more money than starting part is investing. So that's a performance. That's a pay on.

[Mike Davis]

Performance. So, yeah, if the identity of the charter remains is nothing more than a guaranteed entry into everything, 35 million.

[Ad Host 2]

Is a lot for.

[Mike Davis]

That. Well, if it is. If that's what it is. If it's a. Let's say that, you know, if the charter remains nothing more than a guaranteed entry into a single event, I think that the values remain where they are.

[Ad Host 2]

Today.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. All right. What the teams have recognized is that if those charters were to become permanent and therefore basically a franchise, the values are well north of 150 million. So you're sitting there with a charter, Right. That is worth, let's say, 25, and by the stroke of Jim Francis pen, it will be now $150 million. Right.

You know that if you're a charter owner, of course you're hoping for that to happen. And I believe, you know, secretly, even the people that have signed the charter agreement are hoping that some way, somehow, that in the end these do become permanent. And that's really honestly the question that we have to ask ourselves as a series. That is the ultimate decision that I think comes out of this whole trial. Right. There'll be some other little nuances of, well, we'll, you know, 2311 and Bob Jenkins be rewarded some damages. Will, you know, will. Will this little ever get pulled? Will this little thing get changed? Will somebody lose a job? Will. Will. Will this Person get replaced. All those things may happen. Could happen. But ultimately, I think what we are deciding is do the charters become franchises, do they become permanent? Do the vat, and then they'll be realized in new value at north of 150 million bucks. That is probably what Michael and Curtis would love because they come from a model out of the NBA. What they're used to that is similar. Right. And I think that ultimately that's. That's what. And if that happens, like, there is no going back, like, it changes the sport forever. You'll basically have.

36 franchises. However many cars will start a race, they'll be though. They'll be the franchises. They'll be owned and valued, and they will then sell and trade from one entity to another over the course of decades and centuries, however long this goes, and there'll be a gigantic barrier of entry. Right. For. So, like, as we've known racing for 75 years, if you wanted to build a cup car and show up at a race and try to compete, you did. And, yeah, you know, it's probably not going to go all that well. You're going to compete against the regular teams, and that's what it was. But you could. That'll be. That'll be gone.

[Ad Host 2]

Forever. I wonder if on the flip side of that, though, it could lift Xfinity, it could lift trucks, it could lift. It would, you know, Would it? Like, I'm just thinking about basketball. Like, I hear you, like, man, the barrier of entry for 36 teams, with all these people out here racing and all these tracks, you feel like that would go away. Like, what's the point? Why do you need all that just to have 36 drivers, Premier drivers, you know, why do you need all these short tracks, all these other series if the Premier thing is 36, to get.

[Mike Davis]

There? Well, I feel like that if.

[Ad Host 2]

I'm thinking about basketball and college basketball and then your ability to play in high school and so on and so forth, like, you have to have those.

[Mike Davis]

Steps. I listen. That is what's at.

[Ad Host 2]

Stake. So does it improve the steps in our.

[Mike Davis]

Sport? It will. Could.

[Ad Host 2]

It? All right. I don't.

[Mike Davis]

Know. I feel like. I feel like that.

I don't think that. I don't really have a preference.

Of which direction this goes.

I thought through. I agree. Because I think as. As it's going, it's not good for the teams. Yeah, right. It's.

[Ad Host 2]

Not.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. If the teams need more.

[Ad Host 2]

Money.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. So I would support, you know, the teams getting more per season from NASCAR for their charters. I don't know if I fall one way or the other on permanent, but once they are permanent, they then become franchises. They're no longer charters. They go from franchises worth around $25 million to charters worth about 150 or more and so overnight. And so I'm just saying, like once you become. Once they become a. A series that has 36 franchises, they are now way over here on an island.

Even more than ever, unrelated to Xfinity truck and everything below it. Arca regional.

[Ad Host 2]

Local.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. It becomes this anomaly because we.

Your. Your opportunity to get across that bridge. You know that.

[Ad Host 2]

Bridge. Yeah. You don't see a lot of basketball football franchises change.

[Mike Davis]

Hands. Right. But I'm just saying, even as competitor, you know, the. Up that.

[Ad Host 2]

Bridge. Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Exactly. Yeah. The bridge gets a little.

[Ad Host 2]

Longer. Well, that's what I was trying to say is like for. In our Sport, there's only 36 opportunities for a driver to make it. Yeah. On the basketball team, there's how many ever people. You know, times 20 franchises or whatever. Right. So. Yeah, it's a lot. That does. That's why I was saying, does it make I just. The rest of the ladder stronger because people would stay in trucks longer or they would come through Xfinity or they would, you know, does it. I don't know. I don't know the.

[Mike Davis]

Answer. But, you know, you know, the. I just feel like that.

[Ad Host 2]

It'S. I don't like the barrier of entry to cup because I want to compete.

[Mike Davis]

In. Yeah, I know. Like, I, I wish, I wish that NASCAR hadn't taken the hard stance against starting parks. I know it wasn't. I know it wasn't fun for them to have guys come in, run a couple laps and walk out with a.

[Kelly]

Check.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. But you would, you would eventually maybe had a team out of the Xfinity series like ours or several. There's several others in the Xfinity series that would have actually showed up and tried to actually.

[Kelly]

Compete.

[Ad Host 2]

Right. Well, now it's really. It will turn it into a money.

[Mike Davis]

Game.

[Ad Host 2]

Yep. I mean, who has, you know, 400 million to buy the New York.

[Mike Davis]

Yankees. You know, not very people. Yeah. And so think about, think. Think about what that world looks like. Yeah. Where you've got 36 Charters franchises. 36 franchises permanent. You got a car that is.

Hard to. Hard to relate to. Like, I, I look at the next gen car. Like we've. I've. I've stood beside race cars all my life and I can walk out in that garage and I can look in under those cars. And I can identify most of the parts and pieces and the cars that I race in. The cars tour all similar parts and pieces that I see in this 1979, 1980 Monte Carlo sitting here or that 20, 25 Xfinity car. Right. It's very similar. And we then with the next gen car shifted into this whole nother, you know, level of technology. And I look at that car and I go, damn. I don't, I don't know. I know what I'm looking at, but I don't know what I'm looking at. And so, you know, every, every time, every time they pull out a. Pull apart a pull a layer off of the next gen, I go, is that over? It's overdone, over engineered. It's just a mess. And I go, I don't.

I don't know what the word I've been looking for. This word. I would say, like I don't really connect or I don't, I don't. Like, I don't look at that car and go, damn, man, that's.

[Ad Host 2]

Badass. That's a hot rod.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. You know, and so think about a world where you're running cars that are not as easy to embrace. You know, if you're a car culture kind of.

[Ad Host 2]

Person.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. It's tough to, tough to wrap your arms around that car.

And you know, you're, you're, you become a franchise where there's a, there's a, you know, it's pretty much a fixed model. And I just feel like that it separates.

[Ad Host 2]

Itself.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. From really what everybody else is doing in the world of stock car racing. Right. And I don't know that that is a pathway toward.

I don't know that that's a pathway toward like turning on and turning everybody on. I think getting everybody excited, getting everybody to the.

[Ad Host 2]

Racetrack. Yeah. What, what keeps coming to my mind as you keep talking about it and giving these thoughts is that we ultimately just need to fix the business model. That's what they're asking for. Because if you make the teams healthy and you make them profitable and all of that, it is about the charters. That's a whole nother conversation. But ultimately we're just talking about the business model. That's what they're talking about. Make it more. It doesn't. It's helpful for the team to be worth, you know, $100 million. Great. When I go to sale and I built something, but for the 20 years I'm going to operate it, what am I going to make? Think about Shr. They probably didn't really make that much money once they sold their charters because they spent a lot of money and probably went years without a lot of profit. So did they, you know, how much money in turn did they really.

[Mike Davis]

Make? You know, got out without too much.

[Ad Host 2]

Damage. Right, right. What do they. Yeah, they get out kind of level playing.

[Mike Davis]

Field. That's.

[Ad Host 2]

Racing. And I think. Right. Another thing. I know another thing, and I think that's what they're fighting for is let's make it look different. How can we make it look different? How can it be more profitable for the race teams and also our sport because of these charters? And it was before. We're in. We're in a period of change for team ownership and stuff, too. You've got the legacy teams like Hendrick and, well, now Roush Kozlowski, you know, RFK and Penske and so on and so forth. And then you've got, you know, the new teams like Track house, who. Like 2311, who are coming in, doing it differently. But these teams have all these legacy costs and all these things, you know, that more employees, more this, more that. Because they're doing it a different way or they're manufacturing and they're doing all kinds of different things, you know, so we're really in a. Like. So to that point, like, it's really hard to know what the financials of teams are because they're all doing it differently. You know, I mean, and so some teams say they're profitable that are some of the newer teams, you know, and then you got legacy teams that probably aren't nearly as profitable, but because of all the legacy cost kind of things that are involved in stuff, you know, so. Yeah, it's a. It's.

[Mike Davis]

Interesting. Yeah. You'll have a company that's been in this. You'll have a. You'll have a team that's been in a sport for. For decades that has acquired, you know, 500 employees. You bring in a car that doesn't need as many people to put it together.

And you could probably trim down your workforce, but you refuse.

[Kelly]

To.

[Mike Davis]

Right. You know, you can't. You're not gonna.

[Ad Host 2]

Just. It's a hard.

[Mike Davis]

Decision. Yeah, It's a hard decision to cut 30 or 40% of your.

[Ad Host 2]

Workforce.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. So you try to make it.

[Ad Host 2]

Work.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. The.

Yeah. I just was curious, like, why couldn't it be more of a free enterprise model where, you know.

The team's got to go out there to get the money, you know, and I know that that Sounds. That's probably. The owners don't love that.

[Ad Host 2]

Idea. Well, they don't love that idea because marketing has changed so much. So, you know.

[Mike Davis]

It'S. So how help me understand how that marketing plays a.

[Ad Host 2]

Role. Social digital marketing and content based marketing is so much cheaper to do these days than the old buy your television commercials, get in the magazines and newspapers, go on, you know, the, all the different TV.

[Mike Davis]

Shows. But if you, if I could.

[Ad Host 2]

Say, hey, but the cost of our racing has not had that same shift. Right. So let's just, you know, I'm just going to use numbers. It was a million dollars to do all that and it's $100,000 to, to go digital. Well, our costs need to change similarly because I can't get a million dollars from my sponsor. They're like, I want to give you 100,000 because I can do this over there for 100,000 and get the same amount of people, you know, so I'm not going to give you a million dollars.

[Mike Davis]

Right. But I mean, if I can. If you can put. If NASCAR were to fill the.

[Ad Host 2]

Purse, that's what I'm saying. They got to make the business.

[Mike Davis]

Model better ultimately, instead of saying, man, I'm just going to give you a $12 million check for being a charter guy, right? You go out there and you run top 15, I'm gonna get you 15 million bucks. You're gonna get $15 million in purse. You're gonna get your charting money that way. Why doesn't that. That seems to be how racing has worked.

[Ad Host 2]

For. Yeah, it.

[Mike Davis]

Has.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah. I mean, and even a lot of agreements, we now put in more.

Incentivizing, whatever the right word is from our sponsors to make the championship for make the champions, you know, so sometimes that's, you know, how we, we get to the dollar. So it is performance based. You know, they want to see their car up.

[Mike Davis]

Front. It feels like that this isn't the only NASCAR's. You know, this happens in all. This happens in other sports as well, where you sort of. Everybody's sort of, you know, players, athletes, coaches, everybody's kind of getting their money up front, you know. Yeah, I want the.

[Ad Host 2]

Guarantee.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. You know, and that's, that is, you know, that's kind of why I like the Xfinity series or I like college football, or I like, I like, I like where I know that they're working toward a performance reward. Right. And. Or they're striving to get to another level of competition.

And so I feel like that while I want the teams to get their money. I do. I would rather them get it through. I would rather at least be under the guise that I'm seeing them get it by racing. Right. And doing things on the racetrack. And that team's rewarded financially and they're a financial success because they ran in the top five all.

[Ad Host 2]

Year. I think they'd probably fine with that. If the foundation was xyz so that.

[Mike Davis]

You. What do you.

[Ad Host 2]

Mean? We're somewhat profitable. The bottom line, you know, that you can make. I'm just, you know, using numbers. If. If it's a million dollars that I need to be somewhat profitable or cover my cost. But I have the opportunity to make 40 million if I win. Right, right. They need that, you know, the floor they need to cover and then they can work from the floor up to make some money. Right, Right. So I think they're probably saying that the floor doesn't even cover what we're trying to.

[Mike Davis]

Do. I agree. So if NASCAR needs.

[Ad Host 2]

To. They need to fix.

[Mike Davis]

That. If NASCAR. If they're. If let's say the teams are getting 400.

[Ad Host 2]

Million.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And they want 600. Right. Why don't NASCAR just take, you know, if NASCAR is probably going to have to compromise in all of this at some point. They're probably going to have to compromise. In the end. I would. I would put my money on NASCAR having to raise the money they're giving the teams per year for charters. I mean, if they just took that big pile and put it in the purse and said, you're gonna get the money, but you're just gonna go race for it. Yeah. The optics of that's even better. As a race fan, like, I'm trying to figure out how to get me back to the racetrack. Right. How to get me excited to be there, how to get me excited to watch, how to have a purpose or a reason to pull for this person, that person. Because, you know, personality and a cool.

[Ad Host 2]

Looking. It's too much parody.

[Mike Davis]

Almost. Yeah. A personality and a cool looking race car just isn't.

[Ad Host 2]

Enough.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. You know, I need to feel like there's like a grit to it, you know, and if everybody shows up and they're already know what they're.

[Ad Host 2]

Getting.

[Dale Jr.]

Yeah. What are.

[Mike Davis]

We. What are we.

[Ad Host 2]

Doing?

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. We're just racing for pride.

So, you know, that's kind of one of the things that. That I found interesting. And I was glad that Landon points from Landon. Well, I was glad he brought that up, you know, and he's got nothing to.

[Ad Host 2]

Lose. No. And he's good solid thinker. Yeah, he is. He's a good solid.

[Mike Davis]

Thinker. I don't see that model ever coming into the sport. But I mean it, it's basically how we did things forever. But there just wasn't. NASCAR just needs to put more money in the, in the purse.

Had they done that instead of created the charter deal in 2016, we might not be.

[Ad Host 2]

Here. Yeah. Or went out and did some of them crazy things that we were discussing like the call cm. Right. But you know, ultimately, I think you said it earlier, we don't know all the ins and outs. Right. So I mean some of the discussion of the lawsuits that how much of a big deal that the TV rights of playing and what they want and like all the decisions so you know, there's, there's two sides to every story and this one lands somewhere in the.

[Mike Davis]

Middle. I agree.

I think it would be, you know, NASCAR is going to have a new playoff point system next year. They're, they're, you know, probably going to make what would amount to a significant shift. I feel like that.

I've been kind of. I doubt that we'll get 36 race full season deal. It's probably going to be a playoff of some sort. But more than likely I'll be.

[Ad Host 2]

Satisfied as long as this is not one.

[Mike Davis]

Race. It won't be one race. I'm pretty sure. I don't actually know exactly what it's going to be, but I feel like I knowing what I was in all the meetings and all the conversation over the last year and I feel like we're going to land in a good spot. But man, I'm sitting there watching this trial go on and I'm like, you know, everybody's going to walk, everybody's going to walk out of this with some battle scars.

More than likely.

You know, NASCAR's going to have to give the teams a little bit more money. NASCAR's also taking a beating publicly in the sort of. In terms of.

[Ad Host 2]

Perspective.

[Mike Davis]

Yes. And that's.

[Ad Host 2]

Unfortunate.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And so it could. It would be a good opportunity for them to bring back the full Season 36 race schedule as an olive ranch to the race fans that they pissed.

[Kelly]

Off.

Struggling to see up close. Make it visible with viz. VIZ is a once daily prescription eye drop to treat blurry near vision for up to 10 hours. The most common side effects that may be experienced while using VIZ include eye irritation, temporary dim or dark vision, headaches and eye redness. Talk to an eye doctor to learn if Viz is right for you. Learn.

[Mike Davis]

[e-mail].

I want to kind of summarize your point of view and mine, you know, and I'm happy to let you go first or I can go in terms of what you would like to see in the in. And it doesn't have to be specifics. But how do you want this to kind of come.

[Ad Host 2]

About? I mean, ultimately, I just like to see compromise on both sides. I'd like to, you know, I think, you know, we didn't even talk about some of the text messages and things like that and some of the things that were said. I'd like to see.

Some consequences for a lack of respect that people had. I think that's important.

And I'd like to see, you know, I'd like to see compromise. I'd like to see an understanding from the teams of.

NASCAR and everyone else. Speedway Motorsports, srx, Ray Everham, Dale junior Cars, Tour, whoever it is, that we're all working for the same thing. And that's just to keep the sport relevant, to keep it what we know it, to invest in it. That's what everybody's doing, and we all need a better understanding of that and a compromise for the teams that, like you said, you know, what are we racing for and where's the floor to make it a good business model and the decisions that come out of that, you know, so, yeah, it, you know, what I don't want to see is.

Negativity for it to go rock bottom for people to lose their sponsors, for people, for fans and sponsors and the public as a whole. To lose confidence in the sport and what we've built and what we've all known for all these years, you know, would just hurt my heart tremendously. So hopefully I wish they would have done this before the trial and come up with something that they could have come up with, because I think we. We already see some damages, and I hope they just don't get too much.

[Mike Davis]

Worse. Yeah, I can't. I can't disagree with any of that. I think that was well said. Yeah, I was. I was very disappointed in some of the. Some of the comments made about individuals in the sport, particularly Richard Childress, a guy that's just done so much. I know there's a lot of different opinions about Richard out there in the fan base, but.

I know what this guy's sacrificed and.

How much he's invested himself and his life into the sport. And to your point, I would like to, you know, I would like to see some.

I would like to figure out whatever it is, whether it's you know, repercussions or there's that just can't go unless answered touched. Yeah, I can't go.

[Ad Host 2]

On. Just can't be swept under the rug for.

[Mike Davis]

Sure.

The.

You know, I was, I was, I was interested to hear and to learn how Steve o' Donnell and some other people really on the in on the executive side were actually going to bat for the teams. Yeah, that was hope. That was nice and, and good to.

[Ad Host 2]

See. Very.

[Mike Davis]

Encouraging. Encouraging for sure to see them with some common sense and trying to make things. Just trying to find a middle ground, which gives me hope that there is a way for us all to kind of come back together. Because really, in the end, we've got to go to.

[Ad Host 2]

Daytona.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And Daytona is going to be here before you know it. I saw Gluck tweeted yesterday or the other day. It feels like Daytona's year light years away. It will be here.

[Ad Host 2]

Quickly. Larry Mack knows how quick it.

[Mike Davis]

Is. It'll be here quick. And, and when it's here, it's like Christmas. You got all your damn shopping done. Are you ready? Because you better have your under the tree. So when, when Daytona shows up, we've got to be all back together. We all got to be back on the rope pulling this thing in the right direction. And you know, that's, that's the teams, that's 23 11, that's NASCAR. That's everybody sort of. I don't know how we get there that quickly, but we've got to go into Daytona all going, all right, man. You know, we all figured out how this is going to go. We've all gotten what we've gotten out of this trial. We've, we all got a, you know, we're now back to working together.

To get, to get down the road. You know, this will, the trial will be appealed. More than likely this will go on. This disagreement will continue. This isn't going to be over in February, but we do got to go race, we do got to go be successful. We, we do got to go compete and try to try to carry on.

You know, the, you know, the series and the sport and to your, you know, I feel like that, you know.

Somehow, some way it's got to work out. Somehow, some way it's got to.

[Ad Host 2]

Figure itself out and through everything that you just said, it's got to be transparent and authentic to the fan because otherwise, yeah, you can't have no sales pitches. You can't have.

[Mike Davis]

No. Knowing that. Knowing that all of the things that have been discovered in text messages, so forth. I don't think we can go back. I think we're transparent. I think we're there. I think we're.

[Ad Host 2]

There. Gotta keep it.

[Kelly]

Up. 68.

[Mike Davis]

Days. Yeah. 68 days later, max is so the. I do. I don't believe.

You know, I do. I do want the teams to be profitable. I do want. I do feel like that. You know, I know that Penske and Hendrick and Gibbs do not want a cost cap. I don't know how you govern a cost cap, honestly, but I feel like that that might be something we should consider in the future. I know it's not the best. I know that Rick Hendrick would not like me to say that, but I do feel like that a cost cap is something that's got to come in at some point.

If you can do a cost cap and then you can raise what you're giving the charters per season.

And, you know, if they need to be permanent, man, there's just. Once we make the choice that they're permanent, they're permanent. That's.

[Ad Host 2]

It. That's.

[Mike Davis]

Right. And I hope that that's the right choice, because if it's the wrong choice, you can't fix ourselves. Yeah. You can't fix it. Yeah. So.

You know, I don't know where they're. I think that, honestly, I would have preferred. So I'll go specifics. Give the teams more money per year. Give them something that they're very happy about, not just a tick more, not just a bump. Give them something that they're really happy about. Set us. Set a spending cost limit and then.

Sign. Do not make the charters permanent, but sign a deal where it's long term and it's a percentage, not a fixed number. It's a percentage of whatever the TV deal is. So to, like, Michael Jordan and Denny both said, look, we'll do a percentage, and if it goes up, we all win. If it goes down, we all. We all go.

[Ad Host 2]

Down.

[Mike Davis]

Share.

[Kelly]

Yeah.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And I think, you know, I don't know why that didn't happen. I don't know why that wasn't something that didn't happen. I'm sure NASCAR had a purpose or reason, but I don't know what it might be, because if it goes down, we're all screwed anyways. So.

You know, the. But I would have done that. I was said, hey, let's just fix it at a percentage. And it is what it is, and you got. You're going to get more every year. And I think that that would have Gotten them down the road and out of a.

[Ad Host 2]

Courthouse.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah.

So there it is. I, I'm hoping.

You know, I think that. And the other thing I did want to say, I just remembered is I don't, I do want to see the France family continue to run the sport. I think that the France family has earned what they got. They started this. You know, I've, I've got the, I've got the notes from the original meeting in Daytona in 1949 when they all got together at the hotel. I've got the note, like, I've got the word, every word that was said, every decision that was made, every comment from anybody. I've got the whole thing from the whole meeting. And when you read this thing, I mean, it is 75 years ago, but when you're reading it and you're kind of understanding how they form the sport, and then you see Bill France Sr. Take it from that moment forward. And then Bill Jr. And dad and Bill Jr. Were very close. And I got to know Bill Jr. Really well.

You know, then we had the Brian France phase, as tough as that was.

But they, you know, the France family.

They built, they built nascar, you know, and as. And I just don't believe that, you know, if you build a, build a company or you build something, that it should be taken away from you or somebody should come in and tell you, you know, what to do. And so, you know, what I would want, you know, the, you know, GM to do is to, to be, to be able to compromise and be able to get to a good middle ground with the teams. Maybe, you know, he's, from what I've read in these, you know, court records and so forth, he's been pretty stubborn. But, you know, I like Jim. I think he's a great man. I like the France family. They've been great to me. I think they've done an amazing job putting us in a hell of a position as a sport. And I would want, I would trust them 100% moving forward beyond this trial.

And so how can you have that and then all of the compromise where the teams are happy, I don't know, but I honestly feel like, and this ain't no bull. I'm not being a smart ass. I honestly feel like I've seen this, you know, I've seen this for years on my, on my timeline. Anytime there's kind of a big old disagreement or uproar, there's fans on social media that'll be like, they ought to get Mark Martin to run the sport. Gotta get Dale Jr. To run the sport. I'm telling you, if me and Kelly were in those meetings, I feel like that we could have made a difference because reading all of this that went on over the, over the last couple of years, I mean, it's just a level. It isn't that hard. It's not rocket science. It.

[Ad Host 2]

Isn'T.

[Mike Davis]

Yeah. And so I just feel like, golly, man, it would have been. It just seems like this was completely avoidable. And, and it's. And, and again, going back to our regional comment when we first sit down, it's disappointing, but I think there's a way.

[Ad Host 2]

Out. Let's.

[Mike Davis]

Hope.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah. I think if both sides don't come out with lessons.

[Mike Davis]

Learned.

[Ad Host 2]

Yeah. Then shame on them. Right.

Because there should be some lessons that are learned in this whole thing. Or it was. Yeah, it was mute calls to go this.

[Mike Davis]

Far. Well, we'll see. Yeah, we will.

[Ad Host 2]

See. We'll.

[Mike Davis]

See. Before we get to the White Flag, thank you Registics for being the sponsor of this episode of the Dale Jr. Download. We're so thankful for their support of Dirty Mo Media and Jr. Motorsports. Remember, if you sell discount appliances or merchandise, you need to get in touch with them. They'll be happy to help. For reliable inventory and fair and consistent pricing, visit registics.com that's R E G I S T I.

[Dale Jr.]

X.com.

White.

[Mike Davis]

Flag all right, it's time for the White Flag. Be sure to check out the tear down every night after the trial. Jeff Gluck and Jordan Bianchi. They have been giving us a recap of every day in court. It's been amazing.

Be sure to turn on your notifications so you don't miss what those guys have going on. Door bumper clears Christmas special will drop tomorrow. They will have a best of reaction theater that drops Friday as well. Next week we'll be having a best of shows from DBC Actions Detrimental, Bless yous Heart and the Dale Jr. Download. We'll also have a new Bless yous heart on December 17th. Be on the lookout for more DJD classics. Hank Parker Senior is coming out on December 11th and then Rick Hendrick will be later this month. So don't forget to head over to the Merch Shore. Merch store Merch store merch store shop dirty mode media.com shop shop dirty modia.com that's a lot. Hey, I was glad to get back in the studio. Thanks for everybody showing up today and doing this. I've missed doing the show. I hope everybody's having a good holiday season. And getting ready for Christmas. And, yeah, I'll miss y' all until we're.

[Dale Jr.]

Back. Ah, the sounds of an Etsy.

[Mike Davis]

Holiday.

Now, that's special. Want to hear it.

[Dale Jr.]

Again? Get original and affordable gifts from small shops on.

[Ad Host 1]

Etsy. For gifts that say, I get you shop.

[Kelly]

Etsy. The Fantasy footballers are on.

[Mike Davis]

SiriusXM. It's about time you won your league, and we're here today to help. Becoming a fantasy football champion begins.

[Kelly]

Now, and the biggest fantasy football podcast.

[Mike Davis]

Has the insight you.

[Dale Jr.]

Need. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers Podcast.

[Mike Davis]

Right Now on the SiriusXM app. Fantasy football is fun. Winning is even more fun. And our listeners do.

[Kelly]

Both. Listen to the Fantasy Footballers podcast right now on the Sirius XM app. Just search Fantasy Footballers.