My Experience As Dale Jr.'s Boss - Rick Hendrick on DJD Classics

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download: “My Experience As Dale Jr.'s Boss”

Guest: Rick Hendrick
Date: December 30, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Podcast Network: Dirty Mo Media, SiriusXM
Episode Type: DJD Classic

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Overview

In this DJD Classics episode, Dale Earnhardt Jr. hosts NASCAR icon and legendary team owner Rick Hendrick. They go deep into their intertwined family histories, Hendrick's unlikely journey from small-town car dealer to NASCAR powerhouse, and all the human drama, business deals, and driver dynamics that have defined the Hendrick Motorsports legacy. With signature warmth, humor, and candor, the episode highlights not just racing stories but also the personal bonds, conflicts, and inside tales rarely shared so openly.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Family & Early Connections

• Tight Family Ties:
  Dale Jr. explains the family connection with Rick Hendrick, going back to his grandfather, Robert Gee, the renowned body man and car builder.

  “People just think that I know Rick from NASCAR and cup racing, but it goes way beyond that.” (02:04)

• First Meeting with Robert Gee:
  Hendrick recalls getting a hood scoop installed at 15 and being intimidated by the rowdy atmosphere in Gee’s shop.

  “I was almost afraid to go in there to ask him would he do this scoop on my hood.” (03:01)

Rick Hendrick’s Path to NASCAR

• Early Career and Entrepreneurship:
  Hendrick shares stories about leaving school after flipping a car for profit, revealing his entrepreneurial spirit.

  “I need to quit working on... Start selling.” (05:52)

• Transition from Boat Racing to Racing Teams:
  After moving from racing boats to cars, Hendrick got involved with notable racing personalities like Harry Hyde.

  “I thought that we will have STP with Richard [Petty]. So we were too far along to turn back.” (10:49)

Building Hendrick Motorsports

• Recruiting Top Talent:
  Hendrick details his early attempts to sign drivers, including mishaps and close calls with Tim Richmond and Jeff Bodine.

  “Harry said, Bodine, you’re a prick and a prima donna, but I love Rick Hendrick more than I hate you, so I’m going to try to do it.” (17:09)

• Financial Struggles:
  Early days were lean, including running a full season on $800,000 in 1984.

  “We ran the whole year in 1984 for $800,000.” (16:18)

Managing Egos and Legendary Conflicts

• On-Track Rivalries:
  Stories of how battles between Dale Earnhardt Sr. and Jeff Bodine (his own drivers) led to NASCAR intervention.

  “Bill France said, ‘You two monkeys are not gonna blank my show.’” (19:54)

• Unique Conflict Resolution:
  Drivers were forced to ride together by NASCAR officials to cool tensions—a legendary behind-the-scenes move.

  “Richard, you and Rick ride together with me and Jeff. You and Dale ride together. And they didn’t wreck.” (21:10)

Rick as a Driver

• Racing His Own Cars:
  Hendrick shares what it was like racing in Cup and Busch (now Xfinity) events himself, including epic moments with Richard Petty.

  “Richard, I’m sorry. I really am.” (29:02, joking about running Petty off track)

Team Dynamics & Leadership

• Role as Mediator and Counselor:
  Rick touches on his role as a team “therapist” and how running a race team often meant managing personalities and keeping peace.

  “You’re a counselor. You’re a therapist for everybody, you know.” (18:41)

• The Value of Team Loyalty:
  Rick credits Jeff Bodine with helping Hendrick Motorsports survive its early years, demonstrating the huge gamble early star drivers took on fledgling teams.

  “I owe Jeff Bodine a lot because he took a chance and... we kind of established ourselves.” (15:44)

Memorable Moments in Deal-Making

• Dale Jr.’s Unique Contract Demands:
  The famous negotiation story—Dale Jr. didn’t care about pay, but wanted “the skirts painted to match the car” and helicopter rides.

  “I don’t care about that. I thought, give it—okay, let me have it back. Don’t look at it...” (39:25)

Behind the Paint Schemes

• Importance of Car Appearance: Both Rick and Dale Jr. share how deeply they care about car designs and the pride (and sometimes conflict) in getting them right.

  “I want the skirts on the car painted the same color as the car.” (40:47, Dale Jr.) “I like for the cars to look good.” (45:12, Rick Hendrick)

• Rejected Paint Scheme Lore:
  Rick admits he's killed some designs, even suggesting Jimmy Johnson nixed one of his ideas for being “too old-fashioned.”

  “I’m not going to say [who].” (45:32, about rejected schemes) “Jimmy killed it? Oh, no. He said that’s too old fashioned. Conservative, really.” (45:57)

Changing Crew Chiefs, Turning Points

• Pairing Dale Jr. with Steve Letarte:
  Rick discusses the rationale and process behind moving Letarte to Dale Jr.’s car, and how both men viewed it as a make-or-break moment.

  “I just felt like he would be exactly what you needed. And boy, was he.” (47:00) “We’re all in the people business... it’s got a mesh. It’s got to fit, and you got to get that right combination.” (49:08)

• Supporting Dale Jr. Through Slumps:
  Rick reveals he never considered letting Dale Jr. go, regardless of struggles, always focused on finding the right team chemistry.

  “I never thought about, this is the end of it. I thought about it, I’m not gonna let him fail.” (49:58)

Legacy, Team Building, & Succession

• Future of Hendrick Motorsports:
  Rick plans for the team’s future, including Jeff Gordon as partner and potential leader.

  “My son-in-law is the president, but also Jeff Gordon as a partner. So he'll be there to take care of it.” (56:21)

• Changing Ownership Landscape:
  Discusses how the Next Gen car might lower barriers for new owners and recruit former drivers into team ownership.

  “You don't need the engineering to build the chassis... If it does what they say it'll do... it might bring more people in.” (56:48)

• Collection Stories:
  Hendrick’s guitar collection and stories about getting started—courtesy of race wins and friends like Chet Atkins and Tim Richmond.

  “I got over 200 now... And I can't sing or can't play. Right. But in '84, our race in Nashville, we won. Chet Atkins gave me a special edition guitar.” (55:21)

Talent Scouting

• Spotting Future Stars:
  Rick identifies Chase Elliott thanks to a tip from James Finch and personally spotted Jeff Gordon during a memorable Atlanta Xfinity race.

  “James Finch was my talent scout... He called you up and said, Chase, pretty good.” (58:41) “I see him [Gordon] come down straightaway... I said, well, watch this guy. He’s gonna crash... That’s that Gordon kid... He had one [contract] the next day.” (59:00)

Days of Thunder: Reality vs. Hollywood

• Supplying Cars for the Movie:
  Hendrick's team provided real cars and racing advice for the film. Some cars entered “as extras” in actual races for filming.

  “We'd have to take... cars to the race for the movie... That was a day. Two cars started at the back of the Daytona 500 that year...” (66:26)

• Tom Cruise and The Real Story:
  Hendrick shares how his friendship with Tom Cruise led to the film being made, including testing and racing stories.

  “Tom and I and Paul Newman drove together in the SCCA... One day, Tom was driving the Busch car and said, you know, we need to make a movie about this.” (68:10)

Giving Back and Team Loyalty

• Financial Sacrifice for the Team:
  Dale Jr. once offered to take a $1M pay cut to protect employees during the 2009 economic downturn.

  “The only driver... [who] said, hey, I want you to take a million off my salary and give it to the guys in the shop.” (71:41) “He was like... are you sure? It shows you the character he has.” (72:06)

Laugh-out-Loud & Heartfelt Moments

• Legendary Room Zingers:
  On mediating between quarreling personalities:

  “Harry said, Bodine, you’re a prick and a prima donna, but I love Rick Hendrick more than I hate you.” (17:09)

  • Turned a tense meeting into a signature DJD anecdote.

• Contract Negotiations:

  “I want the skirts on the car painted the same color as the car.” (40:47, Dale Jr.)

• On Family & Change:

  “I’ve seen it from the early days to growing up, being a special father, loving his little girl. And so we’re family, and I treasure that.” (75:18, Rick Hendrick)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

(All timestamps in MM:SS)

• On Early Days:
  “I was almost afraid to go in there to ask him would he do this scoop on my hood.” – Rick Hendrick (03:01)

• On Selling:
  “I need to quit working on... Start selling.” – Rick Hendrick (05:52)

• On Running Out of Money:
  “We ran the whole year in 1984 for $800,000.” – Rick Hendrick (16:18)

• Team Drama Mediation:
  “Harry said, Bodine, you’re a prick and a prima donna, but I love Rick Hendrick more than I hate you.” – Rick Hendrick (17:09)

• NASCAR Crackdown:
  “Bill France said, ‘You two monkeys are not gonna blank my show.’” – Rick Hendrick (19:54)

• Paint Scheme Passion:
  “I want the skirts on the car painted the same color as the car.” – Dale Jr. (40:47)

• On Always Trying:
  “I’m not gonna let him fail. We’re gonna keep going, changing till we get it right.” – Rick Hendrick (49:58)

• Financial Sacrifice:
  “...said, hey, I want you to take a million off my salary and give it to the guys in the shop.” – Rick Hendrick (71:41)

• Family & Legacy:
  “I’ve seen it from the early days to growing up, being a special father... And so we’re family, and I treasure that.” – Rick Hendrick (75:18)

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Supplementary: Episode Structure with Timestamps

• 01:44 – Rick Hendrick introduction; family ties
• 03:01 – First meeting Robert Gee; early cars
• 10:27 – “Richard Petty backs out” story; early days of HMS
• 13:42 – Early driver recruitment stories
• 16:18 – $800k budget & survival
• 17:09 – Harry Hyde’s infamous confrontation line
• 19:54 – NASCAR “carpool” punishment story
• 29:02 – Apology to Richard Petty for on-track run-in
• 39:25 – Contract negotiation: side skirts and helicopters
• 45:30 – Paint scheme rejections and Jimmy Johnson input
• 47:00 – Steve Letarte crew chief switch
• 49:58 – Keeping faith in Dale Jr. through struggles
• 56:21 – Jeff Gordon’s future leadership at HMS
• 59:00 – Spotting Jeff Gordon’s talent in Atlanta
• 66:26 – Entering cars for Days of Thunder movie
• 68:10 – Friendship with Tom Cruise and movie origin
• 71:41 – Dale Jr. offers pay cut to safeguard employees
• 75:18 – Rick reflects on family, change, legacy

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Final Thoughts

This episode is a treasure trove of racing history, personal anecdotes, and lessons in leadership, loyalty, and legacy. For fans and newcomers alike, it’s an essential listen to understand not just the rise of Hendrick Motorsports, but the fabric of NASCAR’s modern era.

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Transcript

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[A]

Hey, let's rewind a DJD classic. Enjoy.

[B]

All right, so Rick Hendrick, he's in the house. He's at the table. A lot of people excited about this one. I'm excited about this one. Thanks for coming, Rick.

[C]

Oh, it's great to be here. Yeah. I was wondering why you never asked me.

[B]

Are you kidding me? You're a hard guy to track down. You're busy. So a lot of places we go with this.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

But you know, one thing that I always feel compelled to tell people about Rick when, you know, talking about our relationship and going to drive for him and you know, why I decided to go to HMS and all those things is I feel like a lot of people don't know the family connection with with Rick and my grandfather, Robert G. And so you know, people just think that I know Rick from NASCAR and cup racing, but it goes way beyond that. So you and my grandfather, Robert G. On my mom's side, he was a body man in the business. And Uncle Robert G. Jr. Works here at Junior Motorsports. Jimmy G. His brother, my uncle, also worked here as well. All those guys are in racing. Y' all grew up in the same town?

[C]

Yep. We grew up in South Hill, Virginia. And when I was 15 years old, I went to Robert's body shop, and he put a scoop on my 65 Chevelle.

[B]

A hood. Scoop.

[C]

Hood. Scoop.

[B]

What'd you want that on there for?

[C]

Because it was cool back then.

[A]

So he had a body shop. How old was he then at the time?

[C]

Golly. I don't. You'll have to do the math.

[B]

I don't know.

[A]

I mean, he was old enough to own a body shop, I guess, right?

[C]

Well, it was called a flying station. And a couple of the drag race guys were there, and Robert and you. You. I was almost afraid to go in there to ask him would he do this scoop on my hood. And he did. And I met him then. Then when I moved to Charlotte in 1977, Robert was running a dirt car. He came over and he said, hey, I'm. I've got this dirt car I want. How about helping me out? And so we kind of rekindle the. That relationship. And. And I was involved in his dirt car.

[A]

Why would you be afraid to go in there initially? Was it just in.

[C]

That was a rough crowd, man. They were. They were. No, I was. I was. I was just younger than they were, you know, and. And there was kind of a little click there in the. In the. In the town. And you knew that. That was. He and his posse. He had a posse. That's where you got it from.

[A]

The original Dirty Mo posse.

[C]

That's right.

[B]

All right, so I guess I don't even know how he did. But how did y' all get from South Hill down to Charlotte?

[C]

Well, I went. I moved to Raleigh.

[B]

And why'd you go to Raleigh first?

[C]

I was going in. Going to school? No, I was going to school.

[B]

What'd you do and what'd you go to school for?

[C]

I was a work study deal with Westinghouse. I'm. I'm actually a tool and die maker. You didn't know that, did you? And I needed a couple more.

[B]

You did what?

[A]

Well, yeah.

[C]

What?

[A]

What? Tell us about this.

[C]

What? A tool and die maker. You. You know, it's an. Kind of an engineering deal, and you design and make special tools. And I needed a couple more years to get my engineering degree. But I. I was peddling cars and working in a service station while I was going to school, and I. I thought I could make more money selling cars. And I saw. Well, I started working on them. I had a. I think I told you, Dale, I have a $300 Opal story. I was working in a station, and one of the professors said, hey, I need you to tune my Jag. And I did. And so a wholesaler comes along. He says, I got this Opal. I need to put a clutch in it. I said, I haven't got time. Got to go to school. He said, I'll take $300 for it. So I borrowed the money from the guy that owned the service station, and then the guy that owned the Jag came back and said, hey, I'm looking for a car for my wife. And I said, I got this Opal, and it's got a 800 loan value. And I thought he'd give me 8 or 900. He said, well, I'll give you 1200 for it. I said, okay, I need to quit working on. Start selling.

[A]

This was a professor?

[C]

Yeah. Yeah. So the.

[A]

So basically what I'm hearing is that the professor basically talked you out of school.

[C]

No, he didn't. No, no.

[A]

In a way, he did. He cut you like the deal in itself, made you realize that you can make money in other ways.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

From a professor, basically. He has no idea he had that type of influence on you.

[C]

I hadn't called him either to tell him about it either.

[A]

Call him and tell him it's worked out fine.

[C]

Thank you.

[B]

He might want some conversation for that. So you said in 1977, Robert reached out. You had the City Chevrolet store, and on Independence. Independence, same place has always been same place. The same city Chevrolet that was on Days of Thunder that everybody knows very well. So in 77, I've seen pictures of this car. My granddaddy, Robert G. Had a dirt car, orange and white, blue, 17 on it, and dad had drove this car. Darrell Walter raced this car in Snowball Derby and other places. But at the time, I think Haywood Plower was driving the car around Metrolina and different racetracks. And so I seen the City Chevrolet on the door of this car. I've got several pictures of it. And so you. Robert comes to you, where you go down to the dealership or something and show up in your office or what?

[C]

Well, there was a guy that we both knew, C.N. taylor, and he Called me, and he said, robert. Robert wants to see you. So, you know, we. We talked on the phone first. Then I went over to his house and.

[B]

Next to the speedway.

[C]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[B]

And how'd that conversation go?

[C]

He just. It was just old friends, and I was intrigued. What'd you.

[B]

What'd you give him?

[C]

I gave him a little money. Some parts.

[B]

Parts?

[C]

Paid him in parts.

[B]

How much money?

[C]

And I don't remember. A couple hundred bucks.

[B]

And he put it on the. And that was it. One time deal.

[C]

No, no. We. We continued to help.

[B]

He'd call you up and he'd come over with some parts.

[C]

I don't tell me. I think there was a truck involved, too.

[A]

Now we're getting the real. Yeah, yeah, there was a truck involved, but.

[C]

And then. Then I guess he talked me into the Busch car.

[B]

Right. So that was.

[C]

And my first race as partners with him. The first race your dad won. Charlotte.

[B]

Charlotte. You got pictures of that?

[C]

I thought, this stuff's easy, man.

[B]

So that was in 1982. Two, I think, maybe. Maybe. 83. 82. 83.

[C]

83.

[B]

I think so. So fill in the gap between 77 and 83. Y' all just running. He's just running that dirt car with city on the side of it.

[C]

Yeah. And I'm. And I'm racing. I'm racing boats. Ah.

[A]

Oh, that's right.

[B]

So, all right. So what's the boat racing all about? Yeah, why do you want to race boats?

[C]

Well, I grew up on a lake, and I always like fast boats, so I got into drag boat racing at first with jet boats and then with hydros, and I went from 100 to 170. And I had a boat that held the world's record at 222. I didn't drive it, but Jimmy Wright in Richmond drove it, and he was killed in the boat. And so when he was killed, I just stopped and I took. I was storing the boats over Harry Hyde shop, and, you know, we were trying to find a sponsor, and Max Mulleman was trying to help me with that. Yeah, he. He worked on the PSLs and NFL. He's a great sports guy. And so he was trying to find a sponsor for the boats, and he called me one day and he said, how would you like to be partners with, you know, C.K. spurlock, Kenny Rogers, and have Richard Petty drive the car? And I thought, what's this, a trick question? And because I knew Harry was there doing nothing. And so we kind of put a deal together. The night that Richard got caught with the big motor in charlotte. I was sitting in the garage area with harry hyde, and richard comes over to the car, and harry says, what's the matter, richard? He said, well, my motor's checking a little big. And harry said, well, it'll be okay as soon as it cools off. And richard said, you can take that one to alaska. Then it ain't gonna cool. Check. So. So that was kind of the start of. Of. And he. I was in germany For a mercedes trip.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he. He backed out.

[B]

Richard backed out.

[C]

Richard backed. Yeah.

[B]

Dang. And so richard backs out of this potential race team to. To drive for you. And how. So what did you. What was. What was the next decision for you? You. You had an opportunity, you, had an out, but you stayed in there.

[C]

Well, I was already building cars.

[B]

Really?

[C]

Yeah. And, I mean, I think we had five people. Now you're talking about how cheap you can start a team. I was renting the transmissions and the gears. I was renting the equipment in the shop and renting the shop, man. So I started with not a lot, But I thought that we will have stp with richard. So we were too far along and to turn back. To turn back.

[B]

All right. So there's a picture of you and dad Standing in the garage.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

At charlotte murray speedway. Dad's in this plain blue uniform wrangler. But it doesn't have wrangler on. It's just blue.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

But it would have probably been a wrangler uniform. I don't know why it didn't have anything on it. But you're standing there with him, and he was testing your cup car.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So how did that happen? You call him up and say, hey, I got in the cup car. Need some laps.

[C]

Yeah. And I knew him through robert. Okay.

[B]

Yeah. Because he drove your sportsman car, Won the race.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

So when he wins a sportsman race, do you like. Hey, man, what's your deal? You got a deal. How did. How did you get him over? Because he's kind of in between rides, not sure exactly what he's going to do. He isn't with richard childress back. He's, you know, he's not back with childress yet in 84. What is he testing your car for?

[C]

Well, we just asked him to come over and shake the car down. And so we started talking. And of course, I want him to drive the car. And, you know, but it's a startup team. Yeah. You know, no history, no nothing.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But at least we had a relationship.

[B]

Sure.

[C]

And if you see the picture, He Drove the car, then I drove the car in a suit with a white shirt and his helmet. Really? Yeah. I've got pictures of that.

[B]

I need those pictures.

[C]

Okay, I'll get that.

[B]

I've not seen that one. So you got in the car and drove it?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How fast were you?

[C]

I don't. A little bit faster than your dad.

[A]

That's the way the story goes, right?

[C]

Yeah. I'm going to stick with it. So.

[A]

So you were. You were trying to recruit him. I mean, there's no doubt about that.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

You didn't. What was you. What would you say your chances were at that?

[C]

Like, zero.

[B]

Zero.

[A]

Going to try.

[C]

But you are sales. Well, I mean, I've got to try, right?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I love that about you. There's been deals that you've made over the years, and even as recently, I remember when I was on the phone with you and Dale was out with Concussion, and you called and said that Jeff Gordon was going to replace him for a few races. And I'm like, how did you do that? And Mr. H says, because I'm a hell of a car salesman.

[B]

In the beginnings of your cup team, when you're trying to build it and get guys. I heard that you'd reached out to Larry Pearson and David Pearson shut it down. Did you ever reach out to Larry to drive your car?

[C]

I didn't. Maybe Harry did, but I didn't.

[B]

Gotcha.

[C]

No.

[B]

What. What other drivers have you tried to hire or wanted to hire? What. What kind of deals, maybe that we don't know about? It almost came together or.

[C]

No, I'm gonna. I've got to think now. You know, we're. We're talking to Tim Richmond and he didn't want to go. He put it off giving me an answer, and then I hired Bowdoin.

[B]

So you were talking to Tim first?

[C]

I was talking to Tim, yeah. First.

[B]

And he wouldn't commit.

[C]

He wouldn't commit. He was.

[B]

What was he doing?

[C]

I don't even remember.

[B]

He was probably with the Raymond, I think.

[C]

Yeah. So I. The way it happened is I said, tim, I've got a. Got to have an answer. So Bodine came in and he was sitting in my office and I said, well, it was like 10 o'. Clock. And I said, I can't do anything because Tim's got a. Got a contract in his hand and I've given him the three o'. Clock. And Jeff said, well, I'm just going to sit here and wait. Yeah. So I was like, okay, well, I'm. I'm I want you. Because if you want to drive it, I want. God. Who wants to drive.

[A]

What was your sales pitch back then? What was your go to point that you were trying to talk these guys into coming to race for you?

[C]

What.

[A]

What was it? Why should they go to race for you back then?

[C]

You know, I. I don't really know other than I told them I was committed and I'd raced. I grew up racing modifieds with my dad and Ray Hendrick and working on cars I had dry. Was in drag racing. And not many drag racing guys have gotten into cup racing. Done very well. But I. I knew that I probably could hire or try to hire the right folks. But we started with five people and Bodine, I owe Jeff Bodine a lot because he took a chance and. And, you know, we kind of established ourselves. We won three races that year, but if we hadn't, we actually were going to close the shop. After the sixth race in Darlington, I think it was, we wrecked. And I said, harry, I can't go any further. Don't have a sponsor and I can't put my businesses in jeopardy. And so let's run one more race. And as Harry said, bodine's good at Martinsville. He went up there and. And won the race.

[B]

What was the car? What was the sponsor on the car?

[C]

Northwestern Northwest Security Life.

[B]

What is that?

[C]

That's an insurance company. I did business with him in the automobile business.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So why are you chuckling?

[B]

Well, because all his. A lot of his deals are, you know, he's very good at business. To business.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

Which is critical to. In today's market, trying to, you know, your. Your sponsor giving them real valued. How much money were you spending a race back then you wanted to use gonna shut the team down?

[C]

Well, I think.

[B]

Were you.

[C]

We ran the whole year in 1984 for $800,000. Yeah.

[B]

And that was a lot.

[C]

That was a lot. Yeah. That was a lot. A lot to me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Yeah. But I had. But I had five. Five people. Yeah. And Harry was making $500.

[B]

Was he.

[C]

That's what he asked for. Really. He wanted to ride.

[B]

How did you get Harry Hyde to settle down? Because that guy was like Suitcase Jake almost. He was moving around from team to team. Of course, he did stay with the 70, 71 car for a while in the 70s, but he was kind of cantankerous, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

How did you. How did you. How'd you and him get along? And I know he didn't quite get along with Bodine in the end he ended up going and working with him, which. That was a great marriage, but.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What made Harry Hyde happy, I think.

[C]

When he finally got Tim, you know, he was. Tim was. Had so much talent. So did Jeff. But they. They kind of locked horns and personalities. Yeah. And how bad did it get?

[B]

Like, what was.

[C]

I got real bad because. Okay. Yeah, I got. So we were, like, halfway through the season, and I had. And I had already hired Tim to run the second car. So I told Harry and Jeff, I said, okay, we got to get through the year. We've got sponsors, so you guys need to get along. You can do it. So I got all the team together, and I said. And Jeff said, well, Harry, I'm going to do my best. We're going to get along the rest of the year. And so Harry said, bodine, you're a prick and a prima donna, but I love Rick Hendrick more than I hate you, so I'm going to try to do it. And I said, whoa, Harry, wait a minute. Let's go outside. We got to start all over again.

[A]

That's not. That's not the good first step we're doing into salvaging.

[C]

This really wasn't after an hour, you know, trying to sell the team and say, hey, we got so much to look forward to. You know, we can. You know, just. We just got to hold it together. And, I mean, I'd spent a good hour, you know, thought you had them putting the love on them. And, you know, I could just see.

[A]

Mr. H at the time when he goes, you're a prick in a Prima Donna. And Mr. H is going to.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, like, the things that these drivers and crew chiefs put you through over the years, it's amazing you even come up.

[C]

I mean, this is one good torture. It's really torture.

[A]

You're a counselor. You're a therapist for everybody, you know.

[C]

Exactly. That's right.

[B]

Right around this particular time in NASCAR that Dad and Jeff were running over each other.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

How did that. I mean, how did that not become worse than it was? Like, it's. I've watched races even recently, and where dad would wreck Bodine, and they'd put you on camera, and you're like, we got to figure this out. These guys got to figure this out. Can't keep tearing race cars up. And then if you think about a lot of people, look at Days of Thunder, and there's a particular part in the movie where they're tearing up the rental cars, and Bill France brings the drivers in to have a Conversation with him in his office and all that, that was sort of taken out a little bit out of context. But from that story of dad and. And Jeff, when they were running over each other now, they didn't tear up rental cars. They actually had to ride in a car together, Right?

[C]

That's right.

[B]

Who made that? Like, so nascar. Bill France said, y' all gonna straighten this out. You're coming to Daytona.

[C]

We went to Daytona.

[B]

And you're gonna ride in the car together. He made. Who did that?

[C]

Well, we were having a meeting, and it was a short meeting in his office in France.

[B]

What did he say?

[C]

He said, boys, who's in the room? It's Richard Childers and me and your dad and Jeff Bodine and so. And Bill France. And he says, I've got videos here, and we can look at tapes, but YouTube monkeys are not gonna blank my show.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And he said, so here's the deal. If they looked around the table, he said, now, Rick, you can go back and sell cars. Richard. Richard, you can. I don't know. You can go back to doing whatever. And he told. He told Jeff he could go back up north. And he told your dad. He said, I don't know what you do make a living, but, you know, if y' all gonna be in this sport, this is what's gonna happen. And so he said, now we're gonna go eat. And so your dad said. He said, I can't. I've got plans. And Bill Fran said, there's a phone. Change of plans.

[B]

Dang.

[C]

So. And then. So he said, now, Richard, you and Rick ride together with me and Jeff. You and Dale ride together. And they didn't wreck. That wasn't. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Did they protest?

[B]

Did they.

[C]

No. Nobody. You. You knew in there you didn't have any options, and you didn't get to speak.

[A]

Well, tried to get out of it. He tried to get out of it with his other plans, but he. That got shut down.

[C]

Shut down.

[A]

He wasn't going to protest, though, riding together with Jeff?

[C]

No, he didn't. I mean, he. I think he. I think he could tell. And the situation was getting kind of edgy.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so did you or RC go ask the drivers, how did that go? I mean, did y' all talk? I mean, like, what happened?

[B]

You and Richard ever get together before that? Like, hey, how do we sort these guys out now?

[C]

We'd look at each other when it would happen and say, hey, we weren't. Yeah, we weren't driving a car, really. And. Because, you know, both of Us would get upset. And. Yeah, and I told. I told Jeff Bodine one time, I said, listen, you don't pick up a snake and shake him by his tail and let him go. If you go, you know, you go rub on him, then he's going to wreck you, so why don't you just quit? But they just couldn't do it. But Bill said, okay, the next race, if you guys even get close to each other, I won't have to park the cars and come down out of the tower and inspect them because something must be wrong with them. And it might be the end of the race because I don't know if I can get across the track. Oh, wow. It was pretty cold.

[A]

That's a threat. That's a big threat.

[C]

Well, you know, he didn't. He had had enough.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It was getting out of care.

[C]

It was getting out.

[B]

They were wrecking each other in Xfinity races in each other's cars and granddaddy's car. And Jeff got along.

[C]

That was it. That was it.

[A]

I guess the car ride thing worked.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, man, I. I would have thought they come to blows inside the rental car, but I guess not.

[B]

So you talked about driving the car to test with dad, but you actually ran in some cup races.

[C]

Yeah, when.

[B]

I think when Tim was sick. You got in the car at Riverside, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You ran more than one?

[C]

I ran two. I ran. I ran a bush race. And where'd you run a bush race at? And road Atlanta.

[B]

You wouldn't dare go the mobiles, would you?

[C]

No.

[B]

Why not?

[C]

Well, I'll tell you what. One day.

[B]

Did you think he was a good road racer?

[C]

Oh, no. Well, I was decent. My guys.

[B]

Didn't you run into West?

[C]

West?

[B]

West. The southwest tour or something had the.

[C]

Was leading by like three seconds, and they threw a caution. And a guy by the name of Ron Horner today.

[B]

He was on the show last week. He spun you out.

[C]

Yeah, and then I gave him a truck to get him in the racing. One week.

[A]

He told that story, actually. Yeah, You. You really kind of helped him out later in life. He didn't talk about the time he wrecked you. It's funny how they just forget those details.

[C]

He acts like he had amnesia. You driving that car. You were driving that car.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

So you ran Southwest Tour race at Riverside. You ran a Cup race at Riverside. Were you nervous going into the cup car? You're into big boys. You're the owner. Like, the owners aren't supposed to suit up.

[C]

Not really. Actually, I was, to me, is so interesting. Well, I qualified 13th, I think.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And then everybody pitted and I stayed out so I was leading. And then when they got ready to restart, they were all packed behind me. And I thought, I mean, that's when I got nervous. But I guess one of the things that I remember the most about that race is Richard Petty was right on me and went into turn nine and he got under me. But then when you come off a nine, you go to the flag stand, it goes back to the left. So if you're on the outside, if you don't give the guy room, you know he's going in the dirt. So I didn't give Richard room, and I looked in the mirror and he was doing donuts through the parking lot. I don't know. I haven't told him. I don't know if he remembers that or not.

[B]

What do you want to apologize to him for that this is the time to do it in the dirt?

[C]

Richard, I'm sorry. I really am.

[B]

He's coming on the show here a Couple of weeks.

[C]

Yes. We.

[A]

We may or may not bring that up and see if he remembers.

[C]

Well, he and I've talked about what if he had, you know, started racing with me. But it just STP and Curb Records, I think. But I did. I did. Your one other story about your dad. So they used to give you $1,000 for the fastest time in Charlotte in the Busch Series and the Cup Series. So I went over there in your granddad's car, and I put a 750 carburetor on it. And so Bobby Allison and your dad and two or four other guys, and I won top time. I was fastest. So I'm feeling real good. And I go out again, and I go into turn one. I look, and all I could see was your dad's eyes and his. I could see his face like it was. And I pulled right over and came in. And he said, it came in after that. He came in, over to me. He said, what happened? Why'd you quit? I said, I'm not stupid. I was getting ready to get. I was getting ready to get dumped. Good.

[A]

But you felt like it was coming, huh?

[C]

I felt like it was coming, yeah.

[B]

They used to give away cars, give you a car if you won the poll, I think, at Charlotte. And I don't know if Tim was driving for you when this happened, but they'd give Tim the car for winning the poll. And the guys that own the guy, the promoters, like, I guess Humpy and them, had been driving this car around for like four or five months and smoking in it and burning up today. Got all kinds of burn marks in the interior and stuff. And Tim's like, I thought I was getting a brand new car.

[A]

He was so ticked off they would award their car.

[B]

They gave him a huge. Basically a rental. It smelled like a pack of Marlboros.

[C]

Well, Schrader got a. His deal wasn't that good. So I told Schrader, I said, look, if you win the poll, I'll give you a truck. And so Schrader won the poll. And we had this four, $500 truck, rusted out, smoking, just a junker. And so we brought it over to the track and gave it to him. And that was. That was funny. You remember. I don't know if you remember this, but when we always cut up a lot with Schrader. Yeah. So I put a sign in the back window. The race car driver wanted million dollar guarantee. And so Rusty Wallace and all the guys, of course, it was kind of. It was. It was funny.

[B]

Damn I had to hurt his feelings a little bit.

[C]

We were just cutting. It wasn't, it wasn't like real serious.

[A]

It would hurt my feelings.

[B]

My feelings.

[A]

I mean, listen, we've had drivers in this old drivers that have been talking about times their teams, they felt like were, you know, wronging them or something. You know, Dave Marcus was talking about, you know, how he had to quit at a post race press conference and they're sensitive. Yeah, no, these guys are so sensitive. Way more sensitive than we ever thought.

[B]

Right.

[C]

But you don't understand. Schrader was adopted by my mom and dad and he. For real, they loved him.

[A]

Oh, just not for real, but I thought we were getting breaking news here.

[C]

But, but they, they absolutely loved him. Yeah. So we, we cut up and played a lot.

[A]

He was like a brother.

[C]

He's like a brother. Yeah.

[B]

So one race you ran in, I remember, was it Topeka, Kansas, ARCA race?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

I'd been with Schrader for the whole week. He's coming.

[C]

Oh, I remember that.

[B]

He's coming on the show to tell.

[A]

Let's see, you're willing to go into details about this.

[B]

We're going to save it for the Schrader interview.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

But we will talk about. I've been with Schrader for the whole week, running around in dirt races all over the country with him. And it culminated with this final race of the week in Topeka, Kansas. ARCA race. Dad's running. You're running, Aren't you running?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And Schrader and Darrell Waltrip.

[C]

Yep.

[B]

And so dad showed up on race this morning like he's going to start in the back.

[C]

Right.

[B]

Not qualify, not practice or nothing. And I was not feeling good because I'd been with Schrader for a week. I was sick as a dog. But Rick comes up. I'm standing, I'm hanging out at this motor coach that was kind of home base for all the Schraders bunch. And so I'm hanging out with him and I haven't seen dad yet. And, but Rick comes up and says, hey, I want you to sign. Let's sign. I want you to sign a lifetime contract. And I was like, yeah, no problem.

[C]

Let's do it. Yeah.

[B]

And so he got you get. He grabbed a napkin and wrote like a short little two sentence contract. And we both signed it and we should have kept it.

[C]

I wish, I wish we had kept.

[B]

Yeah. And he wanted to give. He wanted to take it and show it to dad. And did you ever show it to him?

[C]

No. Because your dad Was so hot that morning when he got there because he heard the story.

[B]

Who told him all about that?

[C]

I do. It wasn't me.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Because I'm standing by the car before the race started and he walks up to me, you know, hey, he'd catch you by your collar like that when he's talking to you. He pulled. He got real close to me and he said, I'm going to kill Schrader. And I said it had nothing to do with it. He said, I'm going to kill him. And I thought, I'm about 10th and he's in the back. How long is it going to take him to get to me? Because I'm going to move over. But no, it was funny.

[A]

He really was mad, huh? I always thought he was sort of messing with Schrader like you were.

[C]

He was hot. I mean, he was mad.

[B]

So him and Schrader didn't talk for probably a year. What? Yeah, he over that. Coincidentally dumped Schrader at Pocono the next race. Cup race they ran.

[C]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah. As far as I remember.

[C]

I don't know who told him what went on, but somebody did.

[B]

But I was only for 16, I think I drove my truck to the airport to get on the plane.

[C]

So you were 14?

[B]

I had to. Had my driver's license.

[C]

Well, you couldn't go on a club. I remember that.

[B]

I know that. I couldn't go into particular clubs.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

But the Mo Kansas club.

[C]

And I wasn't. I wasn't with them. Yeah.

[B]

I sat out in the parking lot at the club and watched some guy sell guns out the trunk. Cadillac. Yeah. I don't know why.

[A]

Dylan, that's a total problem about this.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This is where he learned about the.

[B]

But it was. Yeah.

[A]

Aftermarket gun sales.

[B]

I was so hungover that I hid from dad for several hours that morning. Out on the pits. Out in the pits. This guy was. I was sitting in Trader's pit and this guy's glue and lug nuts on the tires. And I'm just sitting on one in tires and it's. Sun's out and I'm feeling like crap. And dad walked up and looked down at me and I looked up at him and he didn't say a word. And I didn't say a word. And he just knew. I knew he knew. And he walked away. And I didn't think he'd be that upset about it. I think that he. I felt like, damn. You knew this was going to happen, right? Why are you so.

[C]

Kenny Schrader.

[A]

Schrader wasn't a mystery to anybody, honestly.

[B]

I honestly believe that Schrader had asked if Kelly could go on a trip, and dad turned that down and said Dale Jr. Should go and Kelly could.

[A]

Kelly, now, that would have been something.

[B]

And so Trader's like, all right, fine. And I mean, we rent. We went to, like four or five. We was at a dirt track every night racing. It was amazing. And they drank beer, and I drink beer with them.

[C]

He bum rides. Didn't he. Didn't he catch a ride with somebody after the race and a pickup to get him to the airport or something? He was. It was crazy.

[B]

Yeah, it was a wild week. And that's just. No, that was an average week for Schrader.

[A]

I know, right?

[B]

But it was the funnest thing ever.

[A]

Was he more mad than what he would have been mad at? Bowdoin, like, compare the two. Schrader or Bowdoin, who gets the worst of it?

[C]

You know, I don't. I don't. That morning, I never saw Dale mad. Whatever was going on with them to happen on the track. But this was before the race. This was family. This was personal. I knew the difference between kind of playing upset and upset.

[B]

Yeah, that was tough. One of the funnest things that I like to talk about when is the. Our first meeting at hms. He likes this one.

[C]

I love this one.

[A]

This is so good.

[C]

I'm gonna let you tell it, and I'll see if you tell it and.

[B]

Then you fix it. We talked about it on this show before, and people were surprised, but I had. And you might not know everything, all of it, but you probably do. But we went to. We had went to Joe Gibbs. We met with Joe and the owner of the Redskins, Snyder. His house, right?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

And they showed us a. And I'd been making. I think my salary was 600,000 or something at the. I can't remember. It might have been twice that, but it wasn't. It was comparable to most drivers. It was in. In the lower end. So I was. But I thought that was a lot. You know, I'm like, man, you know, this is great. And then when I went and seen this contract that Joe handed to me and Kelly, it, like, short circuited my brain. Like, I couldn't believe somebody was wanting to pay me this kind of money.

[C]

Right.

[B]

And so when I went to meet with you, my heart was. My heart was to drive for Rick. HMS to me, all these years had been this perfect, you know, opportunity and this best team, and they just won and won and won and won. And they had a really amazing reputation. Plus the family connection I had. I was. I had been racing for family for all these years, and that's such a security blanket. And I like, man, I kind of have that same security blanket. If I go drive for Rick, he's like family. He'll take care of me, give me the benefit of the doubt. And anyways, we go to the meeting, and he's got that paper, and he slid that thing across the table. And I was like, I ain't looking at that. I was like, I don't even want to know what it says.

[A]

And you really said that to him? I don't want to see that. What that says. He said it.

[C]

And I said, well, okay, don't look at. Was pretty. It was. It was actually. It was. It was. Everybody was a little nervous, you know, and I really wanted to drive the car. And Ricky had told me, my son, he's going to drive for us one day. So I never thought it would happen. And so I had labored over this contract for, like, with Marshall for, like, weeks before. I was going to show it to him, you know, and so we go in the room and sit down. And I said, well, here, jail. Here's what we can do for you. And he said, I don't care about that. I thought, give it. Okay, let me have it back. Don't look at it. But he said. But then it was kind of funny because Marshall was in with us, and Marshall was kind of. He was kind of uptight. And so Dale. We were talking about it, and Dale said, all right, I thought we had it. We were all done. He said, I have. I have a couple things that I want. And I'm thinking, oh, here we go. This is going to be big. This is going to be real big. And he said, I want the skirts on the car painted the same color as the car. And I was. Took me about a second to say what.

[A]

It still blows my mind.

[C]

Okay. And I think the helicopter. You want helicopter for a couple of races to Martinsville. Yeah.

[B]

Darlington, maybe.

[A]

I guess unlike any negotiation you have ever made.

[C]

Ever. Never ever. I mean, don't care about the money. Don't care about that. Yeah.

[A]

And somebody had to eventually look at that paper, though.

[B]

But, yeah, well, he. I told. I said, you and Kelly sort that out. Yeah, whatever y' all agree to. I'd already had more money than I knew what to do with, so, like, I. Money wasn't a. Money didn't motivate me and make. Make me happy. You Know what made me happy was how my car looks. Well, if the side skirts aren't painted, that ruins the entire car. And I drive the car. I want the dang thing to look good.

[C]

And then. And then.

[B]

I never understood drivers that don't care about what their car looks like.

[C]

Oh, we had two sponsors hooked up, and so we're in a meeting with them, and. And we go through everything with them, all the big stuff, the numbers and everything. And he said, oh, there's one more thing we gotta have. Dale's got to design the car. They said, what? No, we can't. I said, that's the deal. Dale's got to design the car. That's. That's a deal breaker. And I'm sitting there, we're looking at all this money, and we're going to blow it over. He's got his. He's going to design the car. Yeah, but you did, and it looked good.

[B]

It's all right. I look back at, I. I remember sending him the paint schemes, and it felt frivolous, like, sending Rick the ideas that I had, right? I'm like, hey, Rick, you know, I want to. Involved. Be involved, and I want to send you some of these, and you can show them to whoever. And I felt it felt frivolous because it was. I mean, like, petty. It felt petty.

[A]

Like he doesn't have something else in his life going on at the moment. He's got to sit there and mess around with paint schemes.

[C]

That was the most important thing.

[B]

Well, in my. In my life, that was at the top. Near the top of the priority list.

[A]

Had you had problems with side skirts? I mean, did you ever get your opinion sought out at dei? Where did you get.

[B]

We had black side skirts, and then I think the last few races, we might have started red.

[C]

Okay.

[B]

So, you know, if you really need to know, the first time I ever saw this done really well was when Rusty Wallace started his Xfinity team. He had a bright yellow and black number 66 car. And I think Hank Parker's brother, Catfish, drove the car. Yeah, Billy Parker, but. And then eventually Rusty's son drove it. But this car had these side skirts painted on it, and it was freaking beautiful. And it looked like it was so low to the ground compared to other cars without side skirts. I said, I'm hooked. Never for the rest of my life, I'm going for painted side skirts, but.

[A]

Well, go ahead, finish.

[B]

Well, I was just saying, like, I was going, I'm the one out there driving the car. And I felt like, God, that's kind of a good thing that the driver cares what the car looks like. And it's a motivation. Like, if you like the way the car looks, you're going to want to take that car and do something good with it. You know, I never understood drivers that don't have an opinion or a care, I guess, about what the car looks like. You know, to me, the design and the beauty of the car, like trying to win best appearing car and trying to have good craftsmanship and trying to build a pretty race car from the inside out, has always been something that was important to me.

[C]

Well, you did. Jimmy did that.

[B]

Yeah, my uncle Robert.

[C]

Yeah. With Jimmy Johnson.

[B]

Oh, Jimmy Johnson did that Ally car. Yeah, he sent me.

[C]

You. You worked with him?

[B]

Well, I just gave him my opinion, but if you call a couple text messages back and forth working with him, but he sent me his. He's like, hey, man, I'm gonna help design this car. What do you think about X, Y and Z? And I was like, this is what I would do. But, yeah. So, Jimmy, maybe I rubbed off on this big time. Seven time champ.

[A]

Listen, you know, we learned from Kozlowski a few weeks ago that. That Mr. Penske is deeply involved in the paint schemes and the looks, and.

[B]

We checks off all the paint schemes.

[C]

How about that?

[A]

Yeah. Did you know that?

[C]

I. I did know that.

[A]

So the question is, I'm not so quirky after all. Right, well, so how. How much do paint schemes and the look of your race cars actually matter to you?

[C]

It matters a lot. I like for the cars to look good.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And there's some paint schemes I have light, but usually between the driver and the. And the sponsor, that's what they want, so.

[A]

So you don't typically get involved. Have you ever just absolutely killed a paint scheme idea? Saying that will never be on my race car.

[C]

You have.

[B]

What was it?

[C]

I'm not going to say.

[B]

Do it.

[A]

I wasn't going to ask, but I knew he would.

[C]

No, no. Not going to happen.

[B]

Was it recent?

[C]

No. Was it Dale? No.

[B]

Why can't you say if it was so long ago?

[C]

I'm just. I'm not going.

[A]

You don't have to say.

[B]

Just nodded.

[C]

Just go.

[A]

Start going drivers.

[C]

Well, I do know I came up with a paint scheme for the 48. The new one.

[B]

You did?

[C]

No, no. I came up with one and they killed it. Jimmy killed it? Oh, no. He said that's too old fashioned. Conservative, really. And that's when you do a bouncing back for. Yeah. So I actually like the one they came up with.

[B]

Yeah, I think it's a good looking car.

[C]

The Ally looks good on the hood.

[B]

What was the conversation like when you sat down with Latart and told him that he was going to be my crew chief? Did you sit down with him?

[C]

Yes.

[B]

All right.

[C]

Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

He thought he was getting fired. Do you know that?

[C]

No. Yeah, I didn't know that.

[A]

It's what he says.

[B]

Well, he thought he was getting let go. If you go back to that particular point in time, in that career, in my career, in his career, when he starts to tell the story, I'm thinking that he's going to say that when he heard the news that he was going to be my crew chief, he was going to be a little disappointed. Like, oh, man, I'm going from Jeff Gordon to Dale Jr. And Dale's been struggling. This is going to be a hard, tough heel. But he was actually relieved because he thought he was going in there to get let go because he had.

[C]

Jeff hadn't done so well, but I just felt like he would be exactly what you needed.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

And, boy, was he. And so, I mean, I think the day after I told him, he flew up to your house, he drove up your house and spent the day with you. Yeah. Yeah.

[B]

So that's. This is. You're. You're amazing. Ceila Tart's amazing, too. And like you said, he. When he heard that news, he went home and thought about it, and the next day called me and said, let's get together. You know, about this deal. We're going to work together. We're going to do it together. Because he felt like that it was sort of his last opportunity, too, because he had kind of failed. And this thing that he and Jeff had going on and ground to a halt. And he looked at me and he kind of said, this is our. This is both of our final shot. You know, we're going to have to work hard and make it work. I said, you tell me what you want me to do and I'll do it.

[A]

You sort of felt like you were at the end of options as well.

[B]

So Rick had delayed and delayed and delayed. Like you're sitting across the table and I don't want to put you in an uncomfortable situation, but I felt like that I had gotten a lot more leeway than a lot of guys would have in that situation. We had struggled, we'd failed week after week, year after year. And I. I was like, man, you know, I don't know how much further Rick can go with this, the way it's going. I don't know where the sponsors are mentally over it all. So I felt like, yeah, when. And we, you know, we changed things. We changed crew chiefs, we change people. We'd move things around. But this was a big shift, moving me from one shop to the other with an entirely new group of people. And I thought. I thought, yeah, this has to work, or this is. This will be the. This will be the end. But it ended up working out.

[A]

How close was he in his assumptions of the situation? Was he. Was he sort out options?

[C]

No, no, we just. I. I believe, you know, we're all in the people business, and I don't care what kind of business you're in. It's got to be. It's got a mesh. It's got to fit, and you got to get that right combination. And I could. I could see it and feel it. It wasn't right. And I felt like Stevie could do it. And Dale told me a couple of times that that shop was never as good as the 48 shop. 2448. So I knew I had to get it in his head that he was going to be in that shop with that team, and Stevie was already there, and so it just worked out. Yeah. And no, but I never. I never thought about, this is the end of it. I thought about it. I'm not gonna. I'm not gonna let him fail. You know, I'm gonna. We're gonna keep going, changing till we get it right.

[A]

Is it because there was a confidence issue going? I mean. I mean, he pretty much lost his confidence as a race car driver. Right. I mean, it was building him back up to where he, you know, he used to feel like he was the best driver on the racetrack. When you don't feel like that, you've lost an edge.

[C]

You're.

[A]

You've lost several tents. Right?

[C]

Yeah, well, we. We didn't give him what he needed, and. And we just. Again, the. The combination wasn't there, but because we started off with a bang, we go down Daytona like one.

[A]

Everything we went.

[B]

I remember we went to Vegas to test, and we were fast, and all the cars were fast. All of us were. But we were. Me and Tone Jr were really good. And Jeff came over and said, dang. He's like, you're impressive. And I thought, dang, this is awesome. Like, it's working. And then we went to Daytona and won the shootout, won the qualifying race, and, you know, we had a great season all the way. I mean, we weren't winning races, but we were running first and second in the points.

[A]

You were running up in the points?

[B]

Yeah. Me and Kyle Busch were first and second. They were right together. And.

[A]

And then he dumped Richmond.

[B]

Yeah. But then we went on and won Michigan and. And we had a pretty solid year. Didn't finish out in the playoffs very well or whatever, but started out great.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Then it kind of went off the rails.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Why.

[A]

Why did it go off the rails?

[B]

The. Me and Tony Jr were getting pretty hard on each other, especially on the radio, and I think. So for me and Tony Jr. That was kind of normal. We did that all the time back in the bud days. But. But when Rick and them heard it, they were like, dang, this is bad, these guys.

[C]

Well, I want. I want. I wanted to. I don't know. I don't know who won the race, but one of my cars won the race. And here comes the media and I thought they wanted to talk about the race that we just won. They weren't talking about dale and Tony Jr going at it on the radio. And I don't remember all of it, but it was just. It was so much focus on you. And everybody was expecting, you know, a lot. Yeah.

[B]

DW said. And they were going to win six races the first year.

[C]

Oh, yeah. And. And everybody was listening to everything y' all said. Yeah.

[B]

So it was a lot of microphone.

[C]

There's a lot of pressure.

[B]

I know.

[C]

A lot of pressure on all.

[A]

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[B]

One of the worst. You're always doing a lot of great deals, but I think one of the worst deals you ever done was swapping that helmet for that race car after Holmes did.

[A]

I do think you got the short end of the stick.

[B]

Why did you do that? I couldn't believe it. So he calls me up and he says, hey, I got a question. He's like, after the race at Homestead, I want the helmet. And I said, great, because I've been thinking about that car. He goes, that's a deal. I was like, dang, that was easier than I thought.

[C]

Well, I thought you deserved it. And I'm happy with the deal. I got the helmet, you got the car.

[B]

So you collect helmets, but also you collect a lot of guitars.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What's about. What's the deal on the guitar collection? How many you got? And you're all autographed, right? By different.

[C]

I got over 200 now. Yeah. Why? What.

[B]

What, like, what do you just take a good. If it's autographed by any singer, Is there?

[C]

No.

[B]

Are you particular?

[C]

No, I. I love music. Yeah. And I can't sing or can't play. Right. But in 84, our race in Nashville, we won. Chet Atkins gave me a special edition guitar. Yeah. And then that was the beginning of it. And then Tim Richmond was friends with Bruce Springsteen, and so I'd go to the concerts with him, and he gave me a guitar. So that's how it kind of started. Yeah. And then we won Richmond with the. The Rock and Roll 400. And that was a beautiful guitar. And so. And then through the car collection, guys, entertainment started coming. And now it's amazing the people that have actually played there inside the building, you know.

[B]

Do you have a Huey Lewis in the News guitar? I do because he. Tim and Huey Lewis were pals.

[C]

Yeah. I was listening to the Huey Lewis this morning. It's amazing you said that. Yeah.

[B]

Underrated.

[C]

I wish he. I wish he was still touring. He can't. Something happened to his voice.

[B]

Yeah. Where is the next batch of cup owners coming from? You guys, you know, you and Penske and all those guys been owning cars for a long time. Where's the next group coming from?

[C]

You know, I don't know. I think it could be. I think with it, what they're getting ready to do with the new car, it might bring more people in. Yeah. And you just never know. I mean, you think that somebody like maybe some of the drivers like Brad or some of those guys at some point may decide they want to own a team? Yeah.

[B]

What happens to Gibbs, Penske, Hendrick when you guys are gone? How do you position that company and who you know to continue?

[C]

Well, in our situation, we've got. My son in law is the president, but also Jeff Gordon as a partner. So he'll be there to take care of it.

[B]

And you and him have talked about that?

[C]

Yep.

[B]

You're like, I don't care what you want to do, you're doing this.

[A]

If he wants to turn it into.

[C]

A boat racing operation, if we get him to come to work.

[A]

So you think that. Why do you think the new car would create opportunities for new owners?

[C]

I think it's going to take. It's kind of a, it's, it's, it's a car that you're going to buy all the pieces from someone else.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You don't need the engineering to build the chassis. Somebody's going to build the chassis. So no, no 15 or 20 or 30 different chassis out there. And the body's going to be a flange fit body and the components will all be affordable numbered and if, if it does what they say it'll do and you can run in multiple races.

[B]

How many automotive stores have you opened up with drivers? You got one with me, one with Jeff and Jimmy. Terry Labonte, Terry Lebonne. Who else?

[C]

That's it.

[B]

Have you opened up stores with anybody else? That would be.

[C]

Oh, Boris said. Boris?

[B]

Boris, yes.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

You and Boris are pals?

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

He came to you with an opportunity or pal.

[C]

The difference between Boris, you know, he, he works, he's. I went out there one day and he's breaking down tires on a tire machine.

[A]

So you, you're saying that Dale Jr, Dylan Earnhardt Jr Chevrolet down in town. He's not, he's not breaking down tires and he's not.

[C]

Yeah, he does go down and pump the guys.

[A]

He does.

[C]

And it's been a while.

[B]

I'm due for a visit.

[C]

You are due?

[B]

Yeah. You want to go?

[C]

Yeah. I'll go with you.

[B]

You want to go together?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

That'll be fun.

[B]

What have you learned about eyeing talent in drivers since you started as an owner? How do you find talent? What do you look at?

[C]

Well, you know, I just look at raw ability and car control and, and then, you know, have people tell me, hey, you've watched this guy.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Have you watched that guy? And, and James Finch was my talent scout.

[B]

Right.

[C]

So you got scouts. Yeah.

[B]

James told you about Chase?

[C]

They did, yeah.

[B]

He's watching Chase down there in the dirt at the derby in Florida. Called you up and said, chase, pretty good.

[C]

Look at him. So I did. And. And there's a lot of guys that we've.

[B]

Who told you about Jeff Gordon?

[C]

I saw him.

[B]

You did?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

We're at.

[C]

In Atlanta.

[B]

Finity.

[C]

I was in Atlanta and just. I don't know why I was there on Saturday and I was. You know, that was one track that had a pedestrian tunnel. So I'm going through the tunnel, getting ready to go up in the suite because we had sponsors at both days. And I see him come down straightaway and go in the corner. And I thought he, you know, blown a motor because the tires were. You could literally see the smoke off the tires. And so I said, well, watch this guy. He's going to crash. And so they said, what's. That's. That's that Gordon kid. And I'd watched him on that Thunder sprint car show. Yeah. And so. And so I. I went. This was the weirdest thing. I went to motorsports the next couple. I think it was Monday or Tuesday after the race, I walk into Jimmy Johnson's office. The guy that ran it, not the driver, Jimmy. Right. And Andy Graves was sitting in there. And I said, it's a shame that Gordon kids got a contract with four. And Andy said, you don't have a contract. He had. He had one the next next day. So. Yeah.

[B]

Dang.

[C]

But took a chance with him because we had no sponsor, no nothing, and just felt that strong about him.

[B]

You talked about how Tim was a little hesitant to like to sign the deal before Jeff came. How did you get Tim to come drive for you?

[C]

Well, Tim wanted to come.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

After the first year. And so he came and of course, he and Harry didn't get along the first half of the season. No. The Moon Days of Thunder, that story is true. Where they went test and then. Then they hit on it. And man, this second half of the season, I think he won either set. Yeah. First or second.

[A]

What did it take for Harry Hyde to like you then?

[C]

You had to. You had to agree with Harry. You had to.

[B]

He sounds like Tony Senior.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Like if you didn't have any talent, he'd tell you to your face.

[A]

Or Tim Richmond had talent.

[C]

Harry was a better salesman than Harry. Harry could manipulate things. And so he was slick, he was smart and. But Tim didn't care. I mean, I remember at Riverside, Harry Said, okay, this motor's fresh. This motor's got 50 laps. This one's got 25 more horsepower than this motor temps. I don't care what you put whatever you want in the car. Yeah, you know, he didn't care.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Is that a good comparison, Tony Senior with Harry Hyde? I mean, because, like, we just. People that didn't know him. I. I just. I love the stories about Harry.

[C]

Well, and.

[A]

And I'm still trying to figure out, like, what exactly. We've asked people that knew him on. On this show, like, you know, what was Harry Hyde really like?

[C]

Well, I went over there where my boats were stored, and he had this trailer, a house trailer, mobile home. And he had pictures all. And I'd go in and he'd tell me stories. He was a storyteller. And he told me. He said I could build a car today, go to Charlotte and win the race. And I believed him. I mean, that's how convincing he was. But Harry was. He built his stuff bulletproof. I mean, it was heavy, but he had helicopter coolers for oil coolers, and his stuff didn't break.

[B]

Yeah. When I was a little boy Back in 1987, I had a driver that I pulled for. I liked the underdog, and Jimmy Means was an underdog and ran his own equipment and typically ran in the back half of the field. But when Tim was out of the car there in the middle of that season, you put Jimmy in the car. How did that all come about? He ran the one race at Charlotte for y'. All.

[C]

Yeah. And he qualified, didn't he?

[B]

Fourth.

[C]

Yeah, I think. And he ran really well. Yeah, I think he got.

[B]

It was a wreck early. Big wreck out a bunch of cars dad was in.

[C]

Was. It was. It was one of those deals that we just wanted to give him a chance.

[B]

Yeah, but what did the like, just. Hey, we need a driver who. You want to give a chance to. Jimmy Means. I just think we should give. How did that happen? You saw him do something?

[C]

Well, Harry. Harry thought he had really.

[B]

Wow, that's cool. That's a hell of a comment.

[C]

And then somebody told us, hey, this. He's really struggling once you give him a chance. Yeah, I still give him parts and motors.

[B]

Yes, you do. For his Xfinity cars and that go.

[A]

You know, that's a common denominator that we get a lot now that we've been talking to people in the sport a long time, is that there's always a Rick Hendrick helping me out story.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

It's really. It's been happening. I think it's a great. A testament to what you've done for people in the sport. And you've got a lot of people drive for you at this point. I don't know who it was. It was Matthew or Dale, but listed all the drivers that have driven for Hendrick Motorsports at some point in our notes, and I couldn't believe how many people that is.

[C]

How many is it here?

[B]

Jeff Bowdine, Dick Brooks, Brett Bodine, Tim Richmond, Jim Fitzgerald, yourself, Jimmy Means, Benny Parsons, Darrell Walter, Rob Moroso, Ken Schrader, Bobby Hamilton, Tommy Kendall, Kyle Petty, Greg Sack, Stan Barrett.

[C]

It.

[B]

Jimmy Horton, Ricky Rudd. Hut Strickland, Cyril Vandermerv, Jess Gordon, Alan Sir, Jr, Terry Labani, Jeff Purvis, Jack Sprague, Tabadine, Ricky Craven, Wally Dalleback, Jr. Randy Lajoy, Ron Hornaday, Jr. Jerry Nadu, Jimmy Johnson, Joe Nemechek, David Green, Brian Vickers, Kyle Busch, Casey Mears. Me, Brad Keselowski, Mark Martin, Casey Kane, Reagan Smith, Chase Elliot, Alex Bowman and William Byron.

[A]

If I, If. If I. If my math is right, that's 45.

[C]

Golly, I don't remember that.

[A]

I don't even remember people.

[C]

But, you know, back. Back, I guess in the late 80s and 90s, we decide that we want to run another car. Yeah. And put somebody in it.

[B]

We do it a lot of times, too, Rick. In some of those scenarios, there was some injuries. VW had got hurt at Daytona, and I think that's how. Serial. Vandermeer, Merv. I don't even know how you pronounce that.

[C]

Cyril Vandermeer, he's probably one of the road racers, the greatest rally drivers, and he drove. He drove the GT and he could not be beat until the car broke. But he was good. Yeah. So that was an extra car.

[B]

I think Craven had some injuries that you had some guys fill in for. Terry had a few races he missed.

[A]

You did, Reagan?

[B]

I did.

[A]

Regan.

[B]

Yes.

[C]

I mean, a lot of you.

[B]

A lot of those drivers are won off races, but still, pretty cool list. And I asked you all the time, and we'll let you go after this.

[C]

And then sometimes, remember we did the movie Days of Thunder?

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

So we'd have to take, like. I ain't counting those six car. You're not taking.

[B]

No.

[C]

We didn't count Bobby Hamilton.

[B]

Bobby. Well, yeah, Bobby's in there, but I thought, yeah, Bobby Hamilton's in this here list. I thought, oh, gosh, Tommy Ellis also joined me. Movie cars there. He's not Bristol. Yeah, he's not in the list.

[C]

Is that just cup, by the way?

[B]

Just.

[C]

Okay. Just cup.

[B]

Yeah. So we missed one. Tommy Ellis. I guess so.

[C]

That's when they put a 300. $300,000 camera in the rear bumper. Yeah. And I said, you don't want to do that. Bristol. At Bristol. And they said, we got to have it. And I think fifth or sixth lap, somebody destroyed it. Destroyed it.

[A]

So you literally entered cars to the race for the movie?

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Had to. Yeah.

[A]

That's amazing.

[B]

That was a day. Two cars started at the back of the Daytona 500 that year, and they were tasked to run just 40 or so laps, and then they were going to pull in, but they were out there on the track just getting shots of them, so. And that was. That's what made the. I think that's what made that movie so good, is the ability to be able to have, like, real action.

[C]

I think we went to Phoenix and took Bobby Hamilton in a black 51 car. Yeah. And. And he's. I think he sat on a pole. That wasn't supposed to happen. That's hysterical.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, speaking of Days of Thunder, it blew our mind that Steve Latart had never watched the movie. Being that Hendrick Motorsports guy for all.

[C]

Those years, that I didn't know that.

[B]

That was the one flaw. And in his whole tenure at Hendrick Motorsports, he had never seen Days of Thunder while he worked at. I might have. He might have won a few more races had he.

[C]

I think so.

[B]

Watch that movie and known the connection in the link.

[A]

Yeah, it blew our mind because, I mean, it's. That's basically the Hendrick Motorsports, you know, story, even if it's fictitious in the movie, It's. It's. It's a lot of. It's inspired by you. And so as Dale junior Can do as only Dale junior Can do, he guilted Steve on social media and, you know, got Junior Nation behind it, forced him to watch the movie, and then he came on the show to give the review of it and. And he liked it. Yeah, he liked it. So I know now you can rest easy knowing that, Steve, you were friends with Tom Cruise.

[B]

You still are today.

[C]

Still are. Yeah.

[B]

Why did you get so heavily involved helping them make that movie? Because y' all had to help them. Y' all provided a lot of race cars and equipment, and y' all were advising and so forth, and. I mean, did you worry about losing a lot of money there?

[C]

Well, I. The way that happened, I've been a little nervous. I didn't have any money. Well, I had I did spend a lot of time building cars and so forth, and we probably put too much effort in trying to. To help them, but Tom and I and Paul Newman drove together in the scca.

[B]

Tom Cruise raced.

[C]

Yeah, yeah.

[B]

Scca.

[C]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's going to be the odd history. Oh, is it? Awesome.

[B]

All right, we're going to hear that.

[C]

Yeah. And, and so one day we went to Daytona and just testing, playing around, and Tom was driving the bush car and he said, you know, we need to make a movie about this. So next thing I knew. What? Yeah. Hey. And so then, then, then Robert Town came to town and went up, talked to your dad and, and, and Robert and I are still friends.

[B]

Who?

[C]

Robert Town? Yeah.

[B]

I'm. So I was at the farm shop with Kelly when Tom Cruise walked in the door to sit with dad and him and dad went in dad's office for about an hour and just sat. And the rumor is that they tried to talk dad into playing Rowdy Burns through the bad guy.

[C]

I don't know that. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that.

[A]

We were hoping. We were hoping.

[B]

We need some facts here.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, Rick, I was listening all. I was listing all those drivers and you've been around the sport for a long time, and I asked you this all the time. Why are you still doing it like you got all you could. You're. You're old enough, successful enough, you got car dealerships just cranking along day after day. Why don't you go sit on a yacht somewhere and just goof off the rest of your life? Why? What makes a guy like you or Penske or, you know, other guys similar to keep going. What's the motivation?

[C]

For me, it's the people. It's the people at motorsports that have been there from the beginning and 35 years, you know, giving the guys their 20 year watches. And you built something. I didn't, but all the people together did. That's special. And we've kind of built it one brick at the time from 5,000 square feet and five employees to what it is today.

[B]

It's over 500 employees.

[C]

600.

[B]

600. You've gained 100 employees since.

[A]

I just think you got that money back. You got that money, but you were able to invest it in 100 new employees.

[C]

Have to pay him so much.

[A]

That's right.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

There was a reason he didn't want to look at that piece of paper that was 100 employees worth of salaries on that paper.

[C]

And I look back at like meeting chase when he's 14. Meeting William up here when he was about 14. Yeah. And seeing those guys come along, seeing the young guys become crew chiefs, it's just, it's been, it's special. I mean, to me it's, it. The reason to continue is the people being around them, watching them, not just exiting and you know, something that's been special.

[B]

Yeah, Yeah. I, I called him one time. I don't remember what was going on in the sport, but something was happening in the sport where everybody was, everybody was a little nervous. And I called him one time and told him to take a million dollars off my salary if he needed to.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

Nobody nervous about just.

[B]

There was some.

[C]

The economy was.

[B]

Economy. Yeah. Back in 09, 2010.

[C]

I'll say this, the only driver that ever I've been associated with in all my years that said, hey, I want you to take a million off of my salary and give it to the guys in the shop. Don't have to cut anybody's pay. I'll. I'll give up a million dollars. Nobody else ever.

[A]

What was your response?

[C]

Pretty amazing. I was shocked. I mean, I just shows you.

[B]

He was like, you're. You sure?

[C]

It shows you the character he has. He's like. And his, his relationship with people.

[B]

He was like a little, he didn't know how to take it.

[A]

But if those side skirts change, then that deal is off. I want my million dollars back.

[C]

That's right.

[A]

That's. I've always been just fascinated by Yalls, the dynamics of Yalls relationships. I mean, you know, you told a story about, you know, the actual deal and you know, coming to work for Hendrick Motorsports, but you have so many more. I love the, the story in the general's office. You know.

[B]

Oh my God.

[A]

You know, when we were up in D.C. oh, golly.

[C]

Yeah. And that was a rough start.

[A]

I guess that's my point, is that you've always, at least to us, you've always sort of laughed off moments.

[B]

None of the, none of the National Guard general saw me.

[C]

Well, tell them real quick. How could they not see you?

[A]

He was sitting on the couch.

[C]

Sitting on the couch and they were, they were going through. You had a, had a four star general and you had a bird colonel that was going through the, the charts and the program for racing and you started snoring. You put your head down and, and the general said, that's enough of that crap. We don't want to talk about that.

[B]

He was tired too, putting him to sleep.

[C]

I was freaking out. This is it. One day on the show, you have to get Kelly, and you have to get her to tell the story about her not going because she had a stomach problem. And you called her and said, hey, Kelly, where are you? And she said, I can't go. That was to this deal. And you said, if I got to go, you got to go. And I'm listening to the end of it, and all of a sudden, he said, hello. Hello.

[A]

Oh, that's so funny.

[B]

When. When. When Rick. When. When we sort of had agreed to the terms on the deal or whatever, signed a contract. Rick. I said, rick, I said, I ain't now, you know, I ain't never tucking my shirt in.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[B]

I'm not gonna be like, you know, the. Most of the drivers that you've hired. And he goes, all right.

[C]

Yep, sure.

[B]

You got no problem. I want to tuck shirt in. We go to this deal to meet the generals, and at the. We're in Washington, D.C. washington, D.C. you.

[A]

Can see the Washington Monument out their window, right?

[B]

And he. And I got my shirt tail tucked in, and I've got on some nice pants, and I'm walking into the building, and I'm. I'm just thinking in my mind, like, where's Rick? And I turn around, and Rick's behind me taking pictures.

[C]

That's.

[B]

Yeah, that's like, I need to document this.

[A]

Yeah, yeah. He was the paparazzi at that moment.

[B]

He was. He was real proud of himself. He's like, look what I. I. Look what I got done here.

[A]

Y' all had a lot of fun. I tell you what, those years, for all that we went through and you went through from a competition standpoint and then to, you know, end up with a tart. The dynamics of Yalls relationship has always been fascinating. And you're. Listen, I'll go to my grave talking about how special you are to a lot of people. And, you know, we're definitely two of them.

[C]

Well, listen, I. I've. I've watched. One of the things that amazed me is we've always been real close. And so we're down in Key West. You know, he's a bunch of guys and having a good time, partying. And then about a year or so ago, a year ago, I look up, he's coming down the dock with a stroller, and I thought, man, how times have changed. I've seen it from the early days to growing up being a special father, loving his little girl, and. And so we're family, and I treasure that. And we'll always be. You guys are special.

[B]

Yeah. Rick and Linda have come by the house. I took time out of their day. Come by the house at Sea Island. She'll be here in a bit to say hey to you.

[C]

Cute as a button.

[B]

Yes, sir. All right, man. Well, we're glad you came. We'll have to get you back on here in a maybe sometime next year. We got more stories.

[C]

More stories. Lots of stories.

[B]

Check out Dirty Mo Media on Twitter, Facebook, TikTok and Instagram.

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