Robin Pemberton Part 2: The Jet Dryer Incident, Indy Tire Disaster & Hidden Fist Fights

Summary

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The Dale Jr. Download

Episode: Robin Pemberton Part 2: The Jet Dryer Incident, Indy Tire Disaster & Hidden Fist Fights

Date: September 24, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Guest: Robin Pemberton
Podcast: Dirty Mo Media, SiriusXM

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Overview

In this engaging and revealing second-part interview, Dale Jr. brings back longtime NASCAR crew chief and executive Robin Pemberton for a deep dive into some of the most memorable, bizarre, and impactful moments in modern NASCAR. The episode revolves around Pemberton’s tenure as NASCAR’s Vice President of Competition, his insight on landmark industry changes—like the Chase format and Car of Tomorrow—crucial safety debates, infamous incidents from the Jet Dryer fire to the infamous Indy tire debacle, the sport’s evolving rules, tech controversies, and even literal fistfights in the NASCAR hauler.

The tone is candid, nostalgic, and brimming with first-person anecdotes. Throughout, Dale Jr. and Pemberton trade war stories and contemplate both the pros and cons of NASCAR’s evolution, while offering listeners a rare peek behind the curtain.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Transition from Crew Chief to NASCAR Exec

[04:08-08:40]

• Pemberton recalls his career shift to NASCAR’s “dark side,” describing how a confluence of circumstances and industry connections (notably with Jack Roush and Bill France) led him to become only the third-ever VP of Competition.

  “I did not, you know, it took a couple of meetings before I actually knew that it was going to be vice president of competition.” – Robin Pemberton [06:37]

• Early relationships and racing roots with Bill France:

  “As a kid, we had conversations. He said, well, what is your home track? ...We developed that kind of relationship.” – Robin Pemberton [07:16]

2. The Chase Format Controversy

[08:40-27:41]

• Pemberton outlines the painstaking process behind moving from a traditional full-season points championship to the Chase/playoff system.

  “If we did this thing, we've been talking about it for 18 months. I mean, there was no knee jerk reaction to anything.” – Robin Pemberton [09:20]

• Comparisons to other sports and the desire for more fan engagement and drama.

  “Sometimes fans need a chance to go get up and go get something out of the fridge, drink and... stretch their legs... so it was that type of approach.” – Robin Pemberton [10:05]

• Dale Jr. mourns the loss of emotional “highs and lows” from the old points system.

  “That part of those emotional highs and lows are gone... The regular season is just kind of a thing that happens.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [21:14], [21:56]

• Debate about “rewarding mediocrity” with ever-increasing playoff spots and safety nets, including waivers for injured drivers.

  “...We’ve kind of given everybody all these little safety nets.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [24:04]

• Old-school heroics, referencing Richard Petty driving with a broken neck:

  “He had... cables and pulleys and stuff holding his helmet so... till he could heal. I mean, that's a fricking hero there, buddy. You know, stupid. But it's...” – Robin Pemberton [26:00]

3. Team Size Limits, COT & Aero Changes

[27:41-37:30]

• Why NASCAR limited multi-car teams to four:

  “...the concern was... you could wind up with three or four owners, five owners and no independents... that was not healthy.” – Robin Pemberton [28:18]

• Car of Tomorrow (COT): Behind-the-scenes on safety changes, spoiler/wing debates, and how quickly rules could change under pressure.

  “Mike comes up for lunch... and he goes, well, gotta tell you, we need to get rid of the wing. We just spent a year on it.” – Robin Pemberton [32:18]

• Debating the splitter vs. valence era and how tech-leveling can diminish setup ingenuity.

  “With a splitter, you couldn't grind that thing off... and we're all going to travel it to that mark... it took out some disparity.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [34:19]

4. Tech Inspections and Getting Caught

[37:30-40:01]

• Dale Jr. recalls Tony Eury Jr.’s infamous run-in with tech inspection manipulating the COT wing:

  “Tony Jr got a little vacation.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [39:09]

• Setting up shop outside the track post-penalty; on-the-fly rule changes to counter creative circumvention.

5. The 2008 Indy Tire Debacle

[40:01-42:40]

• Critical failures with Goodyear tires lead to caution laps every 10 laps at Indianapolis—Pemberton scrambles to manage the crisis.

  “I had to take tires from my poor brother that played it good on Friday and Saturday... and give them to somebody else.” – Robin Pemberton [41:04] “That was. I'm up in the tower and this hitting the fan...” – Robin Pemberton [40:30]

• Drivers and teams panicking; insider accounts from the pit.

6. The Jet Dryer Incident (2012 Daytona 500)

[44:07-47:25]

• Pemberton recounts the surreal aftermath when Juan Pablo Montoya collided with the jet dryer under caution, causing a massive fire and track damage.

  “It smelled like a 747 crash back there with all the fuel all over and it rained.” – Robin Pemberton [46:09]

• Choosing to save the racetrack surface over the vehicle:

  “I didn't give a … if the truck burned to the ground. We were trying to save the racetrack so we can run a race.” – Robin Pemberton [45:00]

• Anecdotes about driver banter and waiting out the delay.

7. Hidden Fistfights in the Hauler

[51:06-53:00]

• The inside story of the Tony Stewart vs. Kurt Busch hauler fight:

  “Tony comes across with a left hand and just drills him... the shiners, it's gonna… it’s happening already...” – Robin Pemberton [52:22] “You didn’t tell me Tony was left-handed. I'm blocking him like he’s right-hand. You didn’t tell me he was left-handed.” – Robin Pemberton [52:35]

• The “holler call” culture: the intimidation, the process, Mike Helton’s methods.

8. Listening to Scanners for Driver Insights

[47:45-50:39]

• Which drivers were most entertaining or useful to listen to on the radio, for both discipline and information.

  “The Busch brothers were entertaining... when the switch flipped, they were different.” – Robin Pemberton [47:56] “You’d listen to those people of reason.” – Robin Pemberton [48:23]

9. Tech Advancements & Rules Arms Race

[63:02-70:48]

• Aero tricks, wind tunnel developments, and the rise of shock and ride height manipulation.

  “We hung a body on a race car at the racetrack at Talladega. We went down there for a week... and it was, you know, spring change, sheet metal, spring change, sheet metal. And that thing got hauling ass.” – Robin Pemberton [64:25]

• Ingenious—and sometimes sketchy—setups to cheat qualifying ride height checks.

10. Traction Control & Tech Policing

[71:24-77:46]

• Persistent rumors—and some evidence—of traction control being used in Cup.

  “There’s some traction control out there.” – Robin Pemberton [74:16] “Bluetooth is part of it... wires that are utilizing it are like hair thin... the actual device leaves the car with the driver.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [75:50]

• The difficulty in governing technology in both big and small series, and pondering if it’s inevitable.

11. Family and Loss

[78:35-84:41]

• A poignant and honest discussion about dealing with tragedy within the Pemberton family.

  “I keep a lot of it inside... Lisa tells me I need to go talk to somebody... I just keep it inside.” – Robin Pemberton [81:02] “I don’t have anybody to talk to... I talk more racing now than I do in a year without my family...” – Robin Pemberton [81:51]

• Warm remembrance of his late brother Randy and son Ryan.

12. Closing: Mutual Respect and the Culture of Old-School Racing

[84:59-88:14]

• Dale Jr. expresses gratitude for Pemberton’s role and friendship, reflecting on the “larger than life” reputations of crew chiefs.

  “I never thought I’d have a personal relationship with you. No... I’m so thankful that we became friends.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [87:14]

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Notable Quotes

On the Chase Format:

“If we did this thing, we've been talking about it for 18 months. I mean, there was no knee jerk reaction to anything.” – Robin Pemberton [09:20]

About the Jet Dryer Fire:

“It smelled like a 747 crash back there with all the fuel all over and it rained...” – Robin Pemberton [46:09]
“I didn't give a … if the truck burned to the ground. We were trying to save the racetrack so we can run a race.” – Robin Pemberton [45:00]

On In-Hauler Fights:

“Tony comes across with a left hand and just drills him... I said, you didn’t tell me Tony was left-handed. I'm blocking him like he’s right-handed...” – Robin Pemberton [52:22–52:35]

Reflections on Family Loss:

“I keep a lot of it inside... Lisa tells me I need to go talk to somebody... I just keep it inside.” – Robin Pemberton [81:02]
“I talk more racing now than I do in a year without my family that talks about it.” – Robin Pemberton [81:51]

On NASCAR’s Evolution:

“I'm old school... reward some points during the race or whatever. There's other things to do.” – Robin Pemberton [26:49]

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Timestamped Highlights

• [06:46] – Being named VP of Competition, relationships with Jack Roush and Bill France
• [09:20] – Chase format creation; why it wasn’t a knee-jerk reaction
• [21:14]–[21:56] – Emotional stakes of the old points system explained
• [27:41] – Limiting teams to 4 full-time cars
• [30:58]–[32:26] – “Wing vs. spoiler” on the COT; abrupt rule changes
• [34:19] – Splitter vs. valence: setup creativity lost
• [40:01] – Indy tire disaster, Goodyear's challenges
• [44:07]–[47:25] – Jet dryer crash tales and post-crash logistics
• [52:22] – Tony Stewart–Kurt Busch hauler punch
• [63:02] – Wind tunnel and shock testing tricks
• [74:16] – Confessions and rumors about hidden traction control shells
• [81:02]–[81:51] – On grief and the importance of racing community

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Memorable Moments

• The Stewart–Kurt Busch punch: “Tony comes across with a left hand and just drills him... the shiners, it's gonna… it’s happening already...” [52:22]
• Jet Dryer logistics and the length Pemberton would go to keep the race rolling: From ruined dress shoes to policing in a 747-sized fire [46:09].
• Dale Jr. waxing poetic about old vs. new NASCAR – and why “rewarding mediocrity” sometimes dilutes the drama [24:04].
• Joking about the clandestine nature of cheating, with tales of fake welds and disappearing devices [75:50].
• Camaraderie and vulnerability in discussing the loss of Robin’s son and brother, and the role racing played in their family [81:02–81:51].

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Conclusion

Brimming with old-school candor, technical nerdery, and emotional honesty, this episode channels the heart and chaos of modern NASCAR. Pemberton proves himself a master storyteller—by turns wry, candid, and reflective—while Dale Jr. guides the conversation with a balance of fan nostalgia and industry savvy. Racing lifers and casual listeners alike will find both entertainment and insight, as private garage-area stories and watershed NASCAR events meld into a living oral history.

Highly recommended for fans fascinated by what happens both on and off the track—and in the infamously secretive NASCAR hauler.

Transcript

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Robin Pemberton]

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[Robin Pemberton]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Juan Pablo. Hit the jet dryer. Hit the jet dryer.

[Robin Pemberton]

So the police come and got me and run me around to the back because they had turned the lights on and I'm back there. It smelled like a 747 crash back there with all the fuel all over and it rained. Right. Darrell criticized us on National T for not putting out the fire. They're not shooting at the fire. I didn't give a if the truck burned to the ground. We were trying to save the racetrack, so we're running the race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Hey everybody, it's Dale Jr. Back again for another episode of the Dale Jr. Download. And our guest today is Robin Pemberton. He's been on the show before and just a few weeks ago, in fact, I thought that his story was so unique and he was really such a great storyteller that we would have him back. While all this was kind of fresh on our minds, we spent a lot of time kind of bouncing around, but mainly talking about his role as a crew chief, his beginning role in motorsports, and kind of all of that. We did dip into his time at nascar, working with NASCAR as a member of the organization, but that's kind of what we're going to touch more on today. There was some key moments in the sport that happened around when he was part of that and just kind of curious as to what he might remember. Might remember or you know, some of the things that he might be able to share with us today. Such a great show in episode one with Robin, so episode two should be great. Let's get started. So we.

[Robin Pemberton]

Where were we?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, where were we? Just got off this conversation, it feels like, just not too long ago. Thanks for coming back.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, you know, I wasn't. I guess I wasn't that surprised, but we had such a great conversation the last time. Your insight and memory and, you know, transparency was. Was refreshing, and a lot of people really enjoyed it, and we did, too. As soon as you walked out of the room, we're like, man, we got to get him back. Because rarely do we get somebody back or want to have somebody back immediately, you know, but sometimes, you know, you'll get, like, a guy like Dale Jared in here, and you just can't get to it all.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, and you get to the end of the show, and you're like, damn it. You know, there's just so much more that we just don't get into. And you kind of really want to. Want to get. Get them back in here because there's just some people in the industry that have such great. Not only the memory and knowledge, but the ability to share it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You're just pretty solid at trying to. Trying to. Your storytelling, I guess. And you probably imagine when you were put in the position, you were working for nascar, where you had to be at times the spokesman, the one to debrief with the media, and you'd had that experience giving interviews as a crew chief, you know, so you were. You were prepped.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. A lot of times when you're at a crew chief, you. You're in one. One frame of mind. But when you were speaking to the media from representing in nascar, not something that you did. Right. When there's a crew chief, you're talking about yourself, and, you know, now all of a sudden you're, you know, you got some. You got some guidelines you got to stay in. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Had you ever ventured out of those guidelines accidentally?

[Robin Pemberton]

I don't know. You could probably look around and find. Plenty of times I messed up, but, you know. Yeah, it was not bad.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Not bad.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah, not so bad.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They had to go back and.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Clean it up.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, when we were. I think, you know, when we left off, we kind of hadn't gotten too deep into your. Your. Your involvement in nascar. You were the vice president of competition for NASCAR back in 2024 or 2004. I'm sorry. And maybe we, you know, we might be repeating some of the things that we discussed, but what was the, what was the motivation, I suppose, of joining the dark side?

[Robin Pemberton]

It's kind of funny how, how it, how it all worked out. It goes back actually, a few years before that. So I, I was at Penske, Right. We talked about the year that I left there and all, what led everybody, you know, and so I was at Kyle's 10 year deal that lasted 11 months. So that a little hard on the friendship, but, you know, and so I was, I was out of work and made a few phone calls and this, that the other. And Jack Roush, who I'd worked for before, and he got with Bill France and he got with the Ford guys. And you know, I don't know who did what, where and when, but it led me to be the Ford guy for three years. But I only made a year and a half of it because Bill calls. Bill had Jim Hunter call. Remember Jim, Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yes.

[Robin Pemberton]

Answer the phone. And. And I said, what's going on? And Hunter's like, ah, God, you know, Bill needs to talk to you. I said, did I screw something up? No, we just. He needs to talk to you. So it started that way.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And so they needed, you know, Gary to be more about the R D stuff. Yeah. And that's. I got the phone call.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I did not, you know, it took a couple of meetings before I actually knew that it was going to be vice president of competition.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Which is a pretty nice role out of the gate.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, it's pretty nice role. And you know, when Mike said, he's like, man, you know, you got to come do this. He's like, you're going to be the, like only third vice president. Competition ever. Ever.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you have. Represent. Did you have anybody like, who went to bat for you?

[Robin Pemberton]

Nobody.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Who. How did they know they were hiring the right guy? Who did they talk to?

[Robin Pemberton]

I guess it was just, you know, Jack Roush and, and others that I'd work for and you know, Bill. Bill. We had a relationship.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Okay.

[Robin Pemberton]

For whatever reason, we, you know, even early on when I was at the Petty's and working for Kyle, when Kyle just started, Bill, you'd walk through the garage and Bill give you the motion to come out over and how you boys doing? And this, that and the other. Well, through time we talked about stuff. And in the early days of getting cup to grow, I'm talking in the 60s, whatever, Bill was in his car driving all these short tracks up in New England and upstate New York and here and there. And as a kid, we had conversations. He said, well, what is your home track? I said, well, Albany Saratoga Speedway in Malta, New York. That's where I grew up. Saw the very first race there. He said, oh, yeah, I was there one night and guy got caught on fire. I said, yeah, it was Reni Charlan, you know, and we talked. He's like, he was there that night and then he was there other nights in other places that I was as a kid, you know, so we developed that kind of relationship. And then him and Felix were friends because of the boat stuff as much as anything, but who wouldn't be friends with Felix? You know? And so it kind of. I was just real fortunate to be in some different situations. And, you know, Bill was just that guy that you could just go talk to.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Right around the time you got placed into that role, they decided to have the chase format. So that's a big talking point today.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, boy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

And so let me sip a coffee for this one here.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

This is the first time that we would move away from the 36 race traditional points format. I don't know that, you know, thinking back when this was decided that we would go to this playoff format, I don't really know that we really were all that up in arms over it. Do you recall the reception to this?

[Robin Pemberton]

I think it was. People were curious and they were kind of positive about it. But, you know, when you look at. Go back the years prior to that, now you got to remember if we made a. If we did this thing, we've been talking about it for 18 months. I mean, there was no knee jerk reaction to anything.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So it wasn't in response to.

[Robin Pemberton]

It was something. Something that, that, you know, that Brian or George Pine or whatever they may have heard in their. In their social whatever. Right. And so that's kind of where it came up.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Do you think that Brian was the leader of the idea? Was he the.

[Robin Pemberton]

I think he brought it to people's attention and it was like, hey, baseball's got a seventh inning stretch. You know, basketball's got timeouts, they got halftime. Football's this and soccer's got three periods. And, you know, sometimes. And literally the conversation was, sometimes fans need a chance to go get up and go get something out of the fridge, drink and. And, you know, stretch their legs, whether they're home on the couch or sitting in the grandstands. Right. So it was that type of approach. I'm telling you, I have a notebook at home that's probably this thick with all the different proposals and ideas and what to do and points and then all the history, like, here's what would happen. You take years before and you run this point system on. On those years, right? Yeah, sure. And then you look at the times that, you know, somebody won a championship at Rockingham before the end of the race, two races at the end, and what did that do for TV ratings or this, that and the other, you know, you know, those kind of conversations. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We're back in those conversations today.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, there's a. There was just a meeting recently of they. So sometime before daytona for the 500 this year in February, they developed or informally made a committee to discuss potential ideas around changing the current system. And I was lucky to be asked to be a part of that. And it's been zoom calls and emails and good conversation. And funny thing, I think we all, I think most everybody, myself included, went into this thinking that there was never an opportunity like the 36 race schedule was not on the table or, you know, a full season standard or original system was not on the table and not Even really in NASCAR's opinion, worth debating. Because I don't think that NASCAR, I don't know, I felt like at the, at that point that NASCAR thought that that was a terrible idea to even, even discuss it. But we were going to sit there and talk about, all right, how many races should be in the final round. All right, how many drivers should be in that round. And the conversations have been really good. And I think we're going to end up landing somewhere. That's sort of a blend that really makes everybody happy. And we do end up feeling like we've got a justified champion. And I think that not to take away from how we're doing it now, the way you win a championship now is ridiculously hard. Everything has to go right in one single day. But to me, I feel better about deriving our champion from a group of events. Multiple results, as many as possible. I love a full season schedule. That's my favorite. Right. I also recognize that I'm.

[Robin Pemberton]

Can't argue with you.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I also recognize, though, that I'm old school and nostalgic.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'm still a guy that likes to ride a motorcycle or drive a van to the races.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I tried to buy 85 comfort coat van the other day that was in really, really good shape. My wife wouldn't let me just because.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'll call her when I get out of here.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

My childhood in that I'm like, I want this, she's. She goes, we don't need that. I'm not riding that.

[Robin Pemberton]

I'm like, now they have sat. You can get satellite.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Anyways, back on the. Yeah, but I'm with you. And now as you're Talking about the 36 races, some of the stuff that was talked about early on, the fact of guys just stroking all race long. Right. And so that's kind of where the rewards came. 25%, 50% and then the end of the race trying to get them to run harder.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. For like the stages and so.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. And for me personally, and I have a few friends that used to be in the business along with me, one of the things that we liked from a competition side, our side was just award those points but don't throw the cautions.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, we've.

[Robin Pemberton]

And then you do that. So what if a caution comes out? Gather the field up, run two laps, pit if you're going to get points and it's under caution. You get points under caution. Just figure it out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Figure it out. Yeah, I love that too. I think that. And honestly I feel like that that's more, that's the more common sense approach and that's likely where we'll end up at some point someday. We seem to find our way where we need to be. You know, we seem to find our way down the funnel.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. And things change, TV changes, coverage changes, all that stuff, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. But the, one of the things that I brought up in the last couple years of meeting with the committee. So we get to this last meeting that happened a couple weeks ago and you can tell that this A30. You can tell that A36 race schedule for a championship or a. Not a full season. I'm sorry, a full season championship is not going to happen. You can tell that that's, that's not going to be a top. That's not going to be considered. Mark Martin has spent all year championing the full season schedule on social media. He is.

[Robin Pemberton]

Good for him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. And he has been honest as he can be about it and not off, not let off the gas a bit. But we're going to this final meeting and it feels like we're either going to learn what the playoff format is going to be or we're going to realize it's. It's drilling down to a couple options, but it's not going to be the full season. Deal. So this meeting starts and as we're talking everybody, not everybody, but a lot of people on the call start saying, you know, what as I've went through this entire year doing this call, thinking, studying, reading, I'm warming up to the full season. Like some of the people in the media, obviously a lot of the drivers like it. I was really surprised that there was multiple people on this call on this committee that said, you know what, I'm actually warming up to the full season. So that was really nice to hear. And I said something that. I don't know if it's real or not, but because I know that I'm biased because of my relationship with, with, with dad, you know, being his son and going to the race and wanting him to do well. But when I, I'm still a race fan and I still want to be avid about this sport and what, what I'm missing right now is the, the heavy drama that would play out in the regular season, in the middle of the season, so. Or in the very first part of the season. So you and I, we'd go the racetrack and you'll remember some of these moments. I think dad was at Charlotte and he's in a tight battle for the championship against with Rusty. And dad broke a crank or a cam at Charlotte in October. And typically, like they weren't going to fix that, right? You break a motor, you couldn't change the motors and typically you blew the motor, you didn't change the parts.

[Robin Pemberton]

They did in the 600 mile race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They did in the 600 mile race. Changed the cam, sent the car back out on track, I think.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, it was October.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

500 mile race or 500 mile race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I think it ended up failing again. But he'd go out there and run 200 more laps. I was sitting there in that moment and when that cam broke and they're neck and neck sort of for the points, I knew immediately in that moment that we're going to leave this race at least 80 points out. And the emotional ride that you went on as a fan due to that is gone today. Because we were actually sitting here talking about a moment on the show with my co host, TJ Majors. 1984 Bristol. Dad's in a battle for the championship with Terry Labonte. Terry doesn't break.

[Robin Pemberton]

Terry.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Terry doesn't. He finishes third, fourth, fifth wins.

[Robin Pemberton]

Terry, Terry.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Every week and I'm like, man, and dad's win or crash. Win, blow up. Win or crash. Win, blow up. And I'm like, man, we can't falter. Dad's leading the race. 200, 250 laps into a 500 lapper at Bristol. And it's night race, he comes sliding down the front straightaway backwards on four flat tires and can't get going, gets lapped. Right. Trying to get back to the pits. And I knew in that moment, I was like, this is a chunk of points we can't afford to lose. And I. It was super, super emotional. It was like a gut punch. And T.J. i was telling T.J. that story, and he goes, well, y' all are okay, man, because you're in the playoffs. What's the big deal?

[Robin Pemberton]

Right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And I'm like, yeah. I'm like, that's right. I don't have to have those moments anymore. I don't have. The highs aren't as high and the lows aren't as low.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Because you're in the playoffs. It's okay.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And so we were on that phone call, and one of the drivers spoke up and said, I just actually had that experience this past weekend. I went to the race and ran 35th, and I didn't care because I was already advanced in the next round. It mattered none to me.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And I'm like, man, you know, so if you were to infuse all of that emotional sort of roller coaster back into the regular season, somehow we've sort of made it to where, you know, you don't go on that ride anymore.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And the regular season is just kind of a thing that happens.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And we don't, you know, we don't go to a race in the summer and leave the racetrack in pure elation because our driver just extended his points lead from 25 to 80, or he crawled out of a hole to get himself within, you know, sight of the points lead or he blew a motor and he's lost a ton of points that he might not crawl back. And now, you know, when those things would happen, I had to see the next race.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, when dad lost those points To Terry in 84, I wasn't going to miss the next race because I needed to see if we could gain them back. Could Terry break? Could something happen that would give us a chance to get back in this thing? I was going to make sure to see the next race, but now I'm sort of given an opportunity to skip a race if I really need to, if I got a family thing or my wife wants to go see the folks in Texas. It's just, you know, I feel like that they. There's pros and cons and good arguments to every side, and there is no perfect playoff format. But that part of those. Those Emotional highs and lows are gone.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Even qualifying. Plucked out of. Yes.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. Even qualifying.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I'm not. I'm not throwing off. We're just talking about history and what is now. But when you. You remember this, when. I think it was Jeff Burton was at Roush, Buddy Parrott was crew chief, I believe, and we would start the season out with the points for the first five races, for the. For the provisionals from last year. Last year.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

They're leading the points or second or third or something like that at Atlanta. And it rains out.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And whatever you had. He didn't make it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Went home. That's crazy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It is crazy. But I'll be honest, I wish it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Were some of that. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I feel like I was gonna say, like, we had a. You know, the clash. I've always loved the clash. When it was an invitational race and it was at daytona, it was 20 laps, a great little appetizer for speed weeks. And just really neat, quick race. 20 minutes.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You'd have sometimes, you know, eight or 20 drivers in it. You didn't know. And when you won a pole, one of the things the guy was gonna say when he got out, I don't care if it was July and Dover.

[Robin Pemberton]

Or whatever, I'm in a clash.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm in the clash. And it mattered. Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

And it paid. Whatever did it pay?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

50 grand or something?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Nothing.

[Robin Pemberton]

Be a million dollars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You raced for nothing. Yeah. But you would race for zero.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. For sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Race like. You'd race your ass off.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's all about. You sat on a pole, you made it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And it was an invitational. It was a special gig. We started hearing from sponsors about their driver wasn't in it. My driver's not my team. Why?

[Robin Pemberton]

Well, your driver can't qualify, so he doesn't get to play.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So we started building a system that would put more cars on the track. Right. And add more people to it.

[Robin Pemberton]

And it lost all of the rewarding, rewarding mediocrity.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And that's kind of what I feel like. All of the. That's, like, the way to describe a lot of things in our sport, because we've taken away the sting of that blown motor, that broken cam. We've taken away the sting of leaning on those points from the year before for five races. And we've kind of made it. We've kind of given everybody all these little safety nets. Right. Even the, you know, the waivers. Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, you can miss a lot of races and still go win a championship because you know, they do that in the NFL.

[Robin Pemberton]

Kyle did when he broke his feet, right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He did. I mean, he's a legitimate champion because he played by the rules and he won the championship.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, but.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But like they're wanting to say, you know, the quarterback gets hurt in the six seat six week of the season, miss two weeks, comes back, he can still win a championship.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And they're trying to make that.

[Robin Pemberton]

That's the example.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's the example. But it ain't. That ain't the way it should be.

[Robin Pemberton]

This is motorsports. It's different. I mean, you learn from that other stuff, but you gotta. I feel like it's, you know, I get disappointed in some stuff. You know, I can get too vocal, you know, whatever.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But I just always felt like that a lot of those things that, you know, it sucks if a guy misses races and it's cost him his championship. Right. Because of, you know, it sucks. But it is sports or it is.

[Robin Pemberton]

You're going to play hurt.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Well, right. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

When Richard hurt himself and we broke a wheel at Pocono.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

I got a black and white picture at home. The right front spring is out of there and it started a fire outside the racetrack, you know, and whatever. I mean, but it destroyed that car. Back when you only run two, you only had two cars in the stable.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Broke his neck.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Broke his neck. Didn't miss a race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, he had. Gee, Lord help him, you know, there was cables and pulleys and stuff holding his helmet so, you know, till he could heal.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

I mean, that's a fricking hero there, buddy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, stupid. But it's. You know what I mean? It's not that you shouldn't do that anymore, but it was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't know, I. I just feel like that some. Some of the things, like, you know, maybe there's a middle ground on. On injury and so forth, but like the, you know, the guy that can win a race that's 30th in points and go try to, you know, take a spot from somebody who had a great season and finished in the top 15 in points. Right. In the playoffs. That is too much. Right. That's too, too giving too.

[Robin Pemberton]

Anyways, honestly, I'm old school. Right. If you want to, you know, we touched on it, you know, reward some points during the. During the race or whatever. There's other things to do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And, you know, it's hard to. It's hard to get a perfect recipe. You never will for that last race to be the Best race as far as the points go.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. And you just, you've been lucky that. Been fortunate. Not lucky. Been fortunate that it has been. You had good cars that rightfully could be champions with, you know, the 12 and the 22 and the 5 and, you know. Right. And they, You've been lucky. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. The cars that have won, they're. You can make the argument that they belong right.

[Robin Pemberton]

In that role.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't. Yeah, I mean, I, I think you're right. I still, I think that they're moving in the right direction to expand that final round to multiple races. There was a rule in 2005. Roush Fenway had five cars. They had half the half of the Chase field, in the playoffs, in the postseason. I'm not sure if this was what it was, but NASCAR would end up limiting teams to four full time cars.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

During the 2006 season. Why would you want to limit teams or set a limit? Why?

[Robin Pemberton]

I think the concern was that you could have this big, huge organization, eventually have 10 teams, whatever, make up some number and you know, there's strength in numbers. If you do it correctly. Right. If you're a good organization, you attract good drivers and you can be successful with multiple teams if you do it correctly. And the concern, I think was that you would. You could wind up with three or four owners, five owners and no independents. Yeah. Literally. And that was, that was not healthy. And as it was, you know, I didn't think Jack was going to run five cars forever anyways. I think, you know, that was, that was a big undertaking. But they just put a, you know, and like I've said before, there's, there's a, there's a lot of thought that goes into any kind of rule or restriction or anything. I mean it is like a lot of, a lot of people weighing in a lot of, you know, a lot of numbers to talk about different things like that to make that decision. But I think it was basically worried that one. One team would even be bigger than Roush. It wasn't necessarily what Jack was doing. It's like, look at that model and what could happen. Right. What could happen.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Somebody comes in with more money, they could burn it all and still have more money and wind up with half the field.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, you were right. Around the same time the COT was announced it was going to be in development in 2006. The car would run limited races in 07 and full time in 08. What was your role in developing that particular car?

[Robin Pemberton]

Gary was on the way with it, some unknown stuff was. There was people that were crew chiefs out in the field working and, you know, running teams. And I actually went to, you know, one of the crash tests out west with Gary flew out. Watch it, you know, listen to them talk about it and. And look at the results and things like that. So you understood what that was about.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So that was the structure part of it and the safety part of it and all of that. And then. And then we wind up doing. When I was there, we were now down into the aero part of it, which is the wing, you know, the roof. The different.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Why did the wing not stay. What was the big deal?

[Robin Pemberton]

Could you ask me that later with a beer or something?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No, I'm just kidding.

[Robin Pemberton]

No, I tell you. We. Like. The wing was good for a number of reasons, and it was bad for a number of reasons. Right. It was good for traffic. Right. Less wake, all that stuff. But the problem. And I got blamed for cars getting upside down. One of the reasons is with the wing, it's not a lot of drag, so when it turns sideways, it didn't. The drag didn't go up as fast as it did with a spoiler, so the liftoff speeds were wrong. You know, and so that's kind of. There was that part of it. And then. And then, you know, we had some. Some people weighed in and said, you know, stuck. You know, stock cars don't have wings. They don't have wings. Yeah, but they do out there now. You know, in the street. You know, a lot of them have wings, but. And there was. That was part of it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

I hate that because that. We put a lot of development in. I'll never forget, Mike comes up for lunch one day, takes John Darby and I to lunch, and we're talking and bull about stuff and this, that and the other, and he goes, well.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I.

[Robin Pemberton]

Gotta tell you, we need to get rid of the wing. We just spent a year on it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay, well, we'll go to work on it. Yeah, I mean, like now. Like. What do you mean? Like, asap. I don't know what the time John would remember. I was. It took my breath, like. Like, what? You got a month or six weeks or whatever. And. And. And then on top of that, you had to make the spoilers and issue the spoilers and all the CAD data and everything it took to do all that, get Richardson to do the machining, or maybe it was Danny Timmins at Nitro. I don't know. And, God, like, it came in a hurry.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, it Was like, okay, got it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The, the part about the cot that, that bothered that I didn't love was the splitter. There's a fun, kind of fun now, but decades old. Hashtag on social media, hashtag Team Valence. And you're better at this, you're smarter at this than I am. So help me, help me understand the. When we had a valence on a car, right, you could have five teams bring five cars to the racetrack. And we go to go to the racetrack and all of us are going to live in, in a different area with our travels, right? And I'm gonna grind that valence to a certain mark and you're gonna do it a little differently and you're gonna have it a little differently and everybody's gonna do go down the corner and things will be a little different. And what would end up happening, in my opinion was one of us is gonna go better than the other. And over the course of a 500 mile race, you're gonna see some people with a little more strength than others due to hitting that just right and that.

[Robin Pemberton]

And the right side had five inches of clearance and the left side, three.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And a half right With a splitter, you couldn't grind that thing off like a bayless. Everyone eventually quickly learned that you had to live in the very same spot, right? And we're all going to travel it to that mark and that's what your aim and goal was to do is get that car on the racetrack and right to that splitter. And so now, you know, we'd all, in six months time, we're all very similar in speed and grip and everything because all of our noses go down the corner and at max travel we're all in the very same spot. And so it took out some parity or some disparity I guess in how each team was progressing. And man, if you tried with the valence, I could drive down in there a car length deeper and it might not turn, but it's okay. You know, I was going to figure it out and the valence allowed me that, that sort of delta with the splitter. If I tried to drive the car one car length further or just a little deeper, it's a very big penalty because it was only going to travel to that mark and it was only going to have that much front turn. And so, man, that was so frustrating. And we've, we still have the splitter today to an extent. Like there's a, there's a, there's still, of, you know, there's still like A limiter.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

On the front of the car.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's where you travel to, and that's as far as you're going to go.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And the co. Even the Xfinity cars out here in this garage here still have a splitter on them. I'm. I'm. I wish y' all would have sent the splitter off with the wing when you took it away.

[Robin Pemberton]

I wasn't a fan. No, I mean, I. I get you. I. I was not a. I play in my. In the rules, too, but, you know, I wasn't a fan of the splitter.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, there's not enough. You know, you got to be able to work on this stuff, but you also have to remember these rules just don't come from that office across from the airport down there. There's input, there's owner input, there's whatever. And the conversations that you hear when an owner comes in or some disgruntled somebody that's not running good because they can't figure something out. Right. You got to do something to limit all this travel. You got to do something to limit. I've got 8 million springs, and I can only use them one time because they take a set and this. Then those are the things.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's a great point.

[Robin Pemberton]

That comes from outside in.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, love or hate nascar. Right. We all wouldn't be here if it wasn't for them. You know, I don't think. But nonetheless, none of these rules are made without input from the garage area. And whether it's splitters. No splitters. They argue about the springs. They argue about, oh, my God, I gotta have too much camber. I got 18 different rear end housings. I got, blah, blah, blah, blah. You got to limit it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Somebody's in somebody's ear, and they're like, you guys got to fix this.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I remember right before we went to. Yeah, I mean, I remember right before we went to that splitter, we went to. We were traveling the front. So you had these big, giant left front fenders, and you had these. You had, like, this one and a half, inch by quarter inch straps on top of the fenders that the hood laid on. And you would go down in the corner, say, at Fontana in qualifying, first lap on the racetrack, 200. Oh mile an hour, super, super, super green, trip green track, high grip, haul ass down in the corner, thinking that you should have an idea where it's going to travel to go out there, run your lap, see a little tire smoke, left front tire's rubbing A little bit. Come in the garage, lift the hood, and there'd be a groove in the tire where that strap on top of the fender laid on it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Wow.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I mean, you're just another 16th of an inch from blowing that tire out, you know, and that being a big deal. Yeah, like a nasty, nasty deal. So there's two sides of it. I mean, we didn't love that splitter, but we definitely had to figure out a way to get the cars off the front fenders because everybody would go to the track and have, like, a fender melt the paint. You know, left front tire rubbing. Rubbing the inside of the fender and having a little melted paint on it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Used to. Used to be the oil pan dragon.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah. We. Tony Jr got busted one time messing with that rear spoiler or that wing at Darlington.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And we got. Tony Jr got a little vacation.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I remember that day.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We had Tony Jr. And I. Tony Jr. Figured out a way to make that rear brake, the rear mount. He tricked it to where he could figure out a way for it to pass tech but then gain some degree, and, man, they found it. We talked about that. Old man Tony Gibson was on the show and was talking about. He was the car chief, I think, on the car at that time.

[Robin Pemberton]

I remember that day.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Going through tech and getting.

[Robin Pemberton]

Those are tough days.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And then we went to New Hampshire. Tony Jr. Is not allowed to be inside the racetrack. And so he set up on top of a bus off turn two.

[Robin Pemberton]

Then we had to have rules on that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Rules on that. Yeah, that's right. Do you remember the Indianapolis tire debacle?

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, my God.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I did the tire. I did the tire test for that one.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

For that race. That's me and Vickers.

[Robin Pemberton]

Congratulations. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's my fault. Me and Vickers and somebody else, we showed up for the tire test, and it was common to, like, go run 20 laps and get in the cords. You know, we didn't see them doing it in 10 laps.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But you'd run a tire and get in the cord, get a little bit of cording on the right front or something. In 20 laps or something like that.

[Robin Pemberton]

That was. I'm up in the tower and this hitting the fan. It's like. It starts out at, like, 35 laps or something like that. So Mike says, you. You got to go down there. We gotta, you know, go down there and see what's going on. It's like, okay. So I went down there, and I'm walking around, I'm looking, and I, you know, radio back. I said, it's bad. You know, I said, they're gonna have to, you know, may run out of tires. So then there was a. Then Goodyear had the inventory list, and they had the list of who had tires and who didn't. They had. Right. You can't make this up. My brother, I think Blaney was driving. So Ryan, they didn't practice unsaved tires, so they had extra for the race because he saw it already. So I had to take tires from my poor brother that played it good on Friday and Saturday and, you know, and give them to somebody else. Right. So I'm walking up down the street there, and it is looking like they're thinking about, there's, there's, Goodyear always had a backup tire out in somewhere. Trucks, trailer, trailer loads. And so Jeff Gordon gets on. I'm, I'm in Jeff's pits. Jeff Gordon gets, you know, gets on the radio to Steve and says, you better tell NASCAR we got a show. Whatever. He said, you know, you gotta fix this. And Steve said, robin, standing in the pits, he goes, oh. Oh, God. You know what I mean? But it was that. It was horrible.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. I think we got, we got to where we were throwing the caution every 10 laps.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was right there near the.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

End of the race just to get him home.

[Robin Pemberton]

You got to save everybody from themselves. Right? You weren't going to pit.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That was crazy. You would run as hard as you thought you could if you knew somebody was going to shred a tire and turn right.

[Robin Pemberton]

Rear quarter panel off.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, you knew it was going to happen. You just didn't know who. You didn't want to be you. I blew a right rear tire, I guess, leading the race on lap 26.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, Lord.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Hey, everybody, you want the latest Dale Jr. Download apparel? Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com we're always adding new stuff all the time, especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T shirt again. Check it out at shop.dirtymomedia.com Trimble is the technology company that connects your physical and digital world so industries like transportation and geospatial can get hard work done faster than ever. Every day brings new challenges, Decisions, adjustments, Real time moments that matter. With Trimble on your team, you're in command of purpose built tech ecosystems and connected solutions that keep work flowing end to end. Turn data points into decision points, deadlines into finish lines and possibilities into profits. Check out what Trimble can do for [e-mail] because with Trimble, you can act smarter, move faster, and lead with confidence. Trimble. Confidence at every turn. The 2012 Daytona 500, you said in a documentary that fire teams that were trying to not extinguish the truck that was on fire, but rather the racing surface to keep it cool and keep it from burning. This is when Juan Pablo hit the jet dryer. Hit the jet dryer. So Juan had been in some sort of an accident or something. Had a little bit of crash damage they were repairing.

[Robin Pemberton]

Trail arm was broken. That's when you had. They didn't weld the trailing arms so they would flex more.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So he's going to hear that. I'm sure he's been in an accident. And it has now damaged a piece that was already intentionally compromised.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And he's going down the back straightaway, and the rear end basically come out of the race car and send him into the freaking. Send him into the car crash. And I have that car in my race car graveyard. Oh, wow.

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So I got a race car graveyard. Yeah, you know that.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I do.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And basically just.

[Robin Pemberton]

I need to get over there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They've just been given to me. I've never bought a crash. But in this race, I remember this. We all parked on the back straightaway while you guys figure this out. So the track. Hadn't the track just been repaved.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes, we were on a fresh paved track.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right. And so you're trying to not only put out a fire of the truck itself, but also save the surface of the racetrack that's trying to melt and slide down the hill.

[Robin Pemberton]

Darrell criticized us on national TV for not putting out the fire. Ah, they're not shooting at the fire. I didn't give a. If the truck burned to the ground. We were trying to save the racetrack so we can run a race.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, it did make a. Yeah, did do an impression on the surface.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. And it was. It was. Remember listening to Boyer, because we used to listen a lot of drivers, and he said you could hear the grout you hit go across. You could hear the gravel, right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

But it was funny. So all that stuff's happening. Mike. Mike sends me down. He's like, you got to go back there. I said, okay. So they called.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You always had to go back there.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was good. Sometimes I needed a field trip. It wasn't fun in the tower, but so the police come and got me and run me around to the back because they turned the lights on and I'm back there and I am telling you, there is. It was like, it smelled like a 747 crash back there. Well, all the fuel all over. And it rained. And it rained, right? And it all laying on top. The thing that saved it is it was all laying on top of the top of the water back there. So I kept the pair of dress shoes that I had on that night. I kept. I had to get them resold because I couldn't get the smell out of the closet. Anyway, so I'm back there walking around and just checking and radioing back to Mike, and my cell phone rings, and there's Ryan.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Your brother.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, well, Blaney. Him and Blaney, they're leading a race. They're leading the race. And he says. He's like, how you guys doing back there? I said, it's okay. He's like, you know, it's raining. I said, I'm standing 200 yards from your car. I know it's raining. Oh, oh, oh. I just thought you needed to know. I said, I know, I know. I got it. I got it. But we would do that. Funnin around, you know what I mean? So I called Mike in the tower. I said, mike, it's raining back here. Yeah. How bad is it? I said, you know, it's not. It's not too bad, but it's. You know, it's raining. He goes, okay, I know who's leading the race and hanging on. So I was like.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We were all out of our cars, and we were all standing on the back straightaway, and I think it was me and Biffle and a couple other people, and we were laughing like, hey, man, it. We're good. Let Blaney win.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And we're all. We're good.

[Robin Pemberton]

You're ready to go. You're checked out, right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And Carl Edwards walks up, and he's like, nuh. I'm not. I want to finish this race. And I'm like, of course you do. What you said, you know, you could hear. You could hear, you know, listen to drivers like, what? How. I wonder if you have any interesting moments where I know that Mike would listen to the scanner and y' all listen to certain drivers during the races.

[Robin Pemberton]

Some were more entertaining than others.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Who were the more entertaining ones?

[Robin Pemberton]

The Busch brothers were entertaining.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, I mean, they were good, and, you know, I got along great with them, but, you know, when the switch flipped, they were different. Oh, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was there a. I know that.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, listen, when it was serious stuff, I want to. I. You know, I'd listen to you. I'd listen to Jeff Gordon, Mark. You know, I had those channels in a radio. I was, you know, where I would listen only.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And you'd listen to those people of reason. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I know that dad. There wasn't like a direct line of communication where dad could talk to Bill Jr. But.

[Robin Pemberton]

Are you sure about that?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, dad knew.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That he was always listening.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And he would. He would say, bill.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, I know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I remember being a kid and hearing dad talk directly to him.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was there other drivers?

[Robin Pemberton]

I think that. I think Jeff knew that I was listening. There was others that knew, you know, and if something went on, like, during the week, the next week, I would say. I said, hey, you know, I was listening to you, you know, and I appreciate your input or whatever. Whatever happened to be right. And some of it was bs. They just need a caution. But not really, you know, and there was other times that it was legitimate information that you wanted to hear.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We told a story on here the other day about, I think around 2004 or 5. We were at Bristol. We had. I had. I was trying. I needed green flag laps because I had a really fast car and lost some spots on pit road and was trying to get myself back into the top 10. And. And we had a long green. Long caution and green flag comes out with, like 15 to go. And I beat the. Out of Robbie Gordon, and me and him go down pit road at the end of the race and wreck each other. But before the end of the race, they said, you need to get to the. They want you and Tony Senior to the holler because I was on the radio under caution. What the Are we doing? This is stupid. All these.

[Robin Pemberton]

What year was this?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I want to say 04, maybe 05. It's definitely not 05. It was probably 04. I don't know if you were there yet.

[Robin Pemberton]

I didn't start till, like, August. It was spring race or something, maybe. I'll tell you what I did do. I started right after the Bristol race. Might have been something like that. So I wasn't privy to that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No. But I cut. We were just on the radio bitching and bitching and bitching about this yellow flag and how long it was taking. And we set. They said, come over to the holler. Which I had been called to the holler before, but we sat down in there and waited. And Mike comes in 20 minutes later.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They got a. They got a lot of things going on, putting out fires here and there. And as soon as he walked in the door, me and Tony Senior started talking like, hey, well, hey, man, you know, getting ready to plead our case. And he goes, y' all were here to listen. Shut up. And so. And he was really mad. He was like, there was breakfast rotors and parts all over the track. You don't have any idea what we're dealing with. You just need to keep your mouth shut. I'll clean up the racetrack. I'll worry about the racetrack.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And that was it. That was the end of that.

[Robin Pemberton]

We had one night. What was the night that I forget. The race. Tony Stewart and Kyle Busch got into it on something and then we called them to the hauler.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. So might have been maybe Daytona. He was.

[Robin Pemberton]

There's a night race at Daytona. Daytona, maybe.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Or was it Kurt? Tony and Kurt? Because apparently. Yeah, yeah, the rumor was Tony popped. Kurt.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. So. Yeah, so. So we're in. Mike says, okay, you, you, you, you guard Tony and I'll take Kyle. This is my. Kurt. Yeah. Or Kurt. Yeah, you know, And I said, okay, well, you know, so they come in and they're sitting in this. They're talking, and they're not getting very far with the conversation. And it's not. Nobody's bending, right? And they're starting to lean up. They're leaning, leaning, leaning. They stand up. So I stand, you know, I get up and I got Tony behind me, right? And I'm kind of keeping him away. And Mike's got Kurt up here, you know, just a little bit. And Tony comes across with a left hand and just drills him. So now, I mean, the shiners, it's gonna. It's happening already, right? And we said, you know, well, we're not getting anywhere. You got, you know, we're gonna talk about this or whatever. So they walk out and I turn the mic. I said, you didn't tell me Tony was left handed. I'm blocking him. Like he's right hand. You didn't tell me he was left handed. He said, hell, I didn't know. You know, Like I said, oh, my God.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Watch Tony's left.

[Robin Pemberton]

Jesus. Oh, man, it's. Oh.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was that as bad as it ever got?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

In the holler.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I think so.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The. Were you there when. When Kurt and Spencer were going at it at Michigan?

[Robin Pemberton]

No.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

No, I think I was on the bottom Ford. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Trying to think of some other Michigan moments.

[Robin Pemberton]

Indeed. They wrecked it. Indy.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He got wrecked. Yeah, that was the first. That was the beginning of it. Yeah. Yeah. There was the. You know, that was a. You would, you know, You. If you're a driver, you get really cocky. You get really egotistical. You think that you know everything. And then when they say you're going, they need to see you in the holler at the end of the race.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You were like, oh, right. I didn't want that.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, when you were. How many. You know, I guess what kind of a. I'm assuming that in most cases, if you were ever privy to any of those moments, Mike Helton was running the show.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, he was my senior. He was a senior guy above me. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What was. What was Mike's usual approach to those type of moments?

[Robin Pemberton]

He was pretty common, cool and collected, and, you know, he's. He knew in his mind what he needed to say or was to each personality. Right. Everybody's gonna accept something different. And, you know, he would have his say, and hopefully the driver would listen and understand our side of it, NASCAR's side of it. And rarely did he have to raise his voice to the next level to get his point across, you know, and he was pretty good, I gotta tell you. I. How he handled all these different guys, and it wasn't a lot, but it was, you know, different things. And, you know, he's. He's very pragmatic, and, you know, he just. He did that. He did that very well.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was he one of your favorite people in that? When you were rolling in the nascar, you know, industry, as an employee of the organization?

[Robin Pemberton]

We didn't know each other that well. We always got along good, you know, and then when I went to work there, it was. It was way better. I mean, we did things together. We.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What about Darby?

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, yeah. He was something else. I still talk to Darby. I still stop by and see him at his shop and stuff. Got stuff going on. He was. He was. It was. The line was right here with him. Right. And he had one approach. Yeah, I was at, you know. Yeah. And he was good. We enjoyed, you know, and David Hoots. I mean, we had a good. You know, my opinion. We had a really good group together. Worked good, worked hard, you know. You know, our offices were all next to each other up in the building, you know, so it was good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

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[Robin Pemberton]

What?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't remember this one, but Michigan 2012. Same year, unfortunately as Daytona. But NASCAR and Goodyear called for the change that left that left teams scrambling late Friday at Michigan. Oh, I do remember this. Michigan in 2012. Tires began blistering in practice. Oh yeah, excessive heat buildup from high speeds. We had a new repave camber. Nascar. Yeah. NASCAR made the move to avoid blowouts. Another catastrophe such as the one we had at Indy in 2008. There's a quote from me about the tire driving like it's six years old. I would go on to win the race. Robin, you just saw tires come into play in a big way a few weeks ago at Bristol in this year's race, the Indie deal. I'm you know, we just had Tony Stewart on the show. Great friend of ours, but. And I'll take some of the responsibility as well. Tony, myself, maybe others, if we didn't like the tire. Yeah, we'd get out of the car and we'd complain about it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Goodyear would come over and say we're the only manufacturer in the series. Why don't you guys cut us a break? You don't need, you know, you can tell me about our tires all day long. You don't need to go to the Media and on our tire. They didn't. They obviously didn't like it when we were critical. I believe that, you know, here we are in 2025. We're finally. We finally have a good year that's ready and comfortable to be aggressive. Right. And get soft. But I believe that we begged for this approach for a really long time over the last 10 years. But I believe that they were so scarred by Indy and some other moments, I'm sure, and our ability to jump out.

[Robin Pemberton]

There's somebody upstairs that doesn't even care about racing at Goodyear that like, you know, no press is better than bad press. Right. And then you gotta answer to something.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

If we got out of the car and talked about the tire, it was as bad as what happened at Indy.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Cause our fans would go, well, I ain't gonna buy a good year.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, exactly.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

For my truck.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The drivers don't even like them. So it's taken us a long, long time to sort of get back into good graces where Goodyear trusts our ability to go out there and them to be aggressive without us sort of hanging them out dry. You know, what's. You've been in this so long to have seen this Goodyear in so many different.

[Robin Pemberton]

Hoosier.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Hoosier. Yeah. You saw that process. What do you make of the current approach? Do you feel like that this is ever going to, you know, do you feel like this is the right direction? Do you feel like that it's good for good year to try to soften the tarp a little bit and put the car back in the driver's hands? As long as the drivers understand the approach and don't go shit on them in the media when it don't work out for them.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I mean, I support that. I mean, they're trying.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

They are.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. And once again, they're being pushed by the competitors. Right. They're saying, you know, okay, we'll keep going, we'll keep going. You know, and, you know, you can't tire test with 36 cars in the track. Your tire test with two or three cars.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Track is always green. The track is always a different temperature. It's all of that stuff.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, and then. And then if you're only running 20, 25 lap runs and you're looking and you look at the tire wear and you predict what it's going to be, then you make a 50 lap run at the end and all that stuff. Well, you know, it's different than. You get the. You, you when you're tire testing, you don't wipe the rubber out of the quarter panels or the exhaust where, where it's catching fire and all that stuff you do on a test. But you, you know, there's things that happen by running 100 laps.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, that are different. And I gotta. Those guys work hard. They're. They're a good company. And you know, to build the amount of tires to. Almost every racetrack has their own compound. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I mean, they're kind of narrowing it down these days.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, they are.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But still trying a lot of stuff.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, with the days that we used to use 16, 18 sets of tires for the, for a 500 mile race or a Coke 600, you know, times 43.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Let alone practice and qualifying and. You know what I mean? In the All Star race. That's a lot of tires.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Speaking of the All Star race, what's your favorite format? Do you have one?

[Robin Pemberton]

The one that we run second at the old format.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

No, I. It's. It's okay. I mean, you gotta have cars. It's the All Star race. Right. You got fan votes. You got this, that and the other. And it's entertaining. And you know, people want to see passing. Right. People want to see, you know, door to door and stuff like that. So, you know, it'd be interesting to see what the next go round brings.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Going to Dover is going to be a challenge.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's going to be different having a.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that's a very tough track to have such a unique event on.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. And it takes a lot to rubber that place in sometimes, you know, you get the wrong weather and the track doesn't take rubber and it's just going to be different.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

That's a great point.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You participated in hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of test sessions.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, what do you, what's, what's some of the notable test sessions that you remember being a part of? I remember one. This is a fun one. This is back when you were a crew chief, we went to Daytona. I was there with dad. I was young. They had. Bill Elliot had his cores Ford. Dad was out there maybe in the Wrangler car and they had put a metal blade hanging down off of the rear clip that had flaps in it. And I guess going around the racetrack, these flaps would open. I'm not sure what it was all about, but I remember dad following Bill around the track and then they'd come down pit road, park on pit road, get out and talk to Bill Jr. And whoever else about you know, well, this is what it was doing. This is what I was looking at. Trying to. Yeah. I guess maybe back then, trying to figure out a route around, trying to slow the cars down.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Which they ultimately decided to do with this restrictor plate.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, that's a tough one there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, I mean, these motors could make 800 horsepower now easy, right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. You remember being a part of any. Of trying to develop anything unique?

[Robin Pemberton]

Usually? Maybe that's just for ourselves.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Sure. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So, yeah, you know, I mean, we did a lot of. A lot of wind tunnel stuff that. When that car that we sat on the pole with with Kyle, the Meliella days, we showed up and it had huge wheel openings. Huge. Because we were. Terry Lace. Remember Terry Lace?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

So Terry. A lot of guys didn't particularly care for Terry or that. Whatever. And I liked them. And so he's like, hey, I want to do a ride height map in the wind tunnel. Nobody else wants to do ride height map. You just put the thing in the tunnel and you run it and you get your numbers. So I was at Pontiac, I said, okay, we did this thing, and I'm watching the numbers, and it's like the light goes on, you need to. This thing needs to run in the ditch. That needs to be low, tail down, all this stuff. You're looking at 25 horsepower difference in some ways. Right. So I decide we're going to. We hung a body on a race car at the racetrack at Talladega. We went down there for a week, started with a generic body. Like, we ran, and I made spring changes, and when the tires hit fenders, I changed the fenders. And we run. And it was, you know, spring change, sheet metal, spring change, sheet metal. And that thing got hauling ass. And then. And then we got to. Then I had to raise the frame rails up. We got it so that whole. The rear would travel the max. What a shock was 8 inches or 7 inches or something. And so that was going to be our car. And that thing hauled us, and you couldn't do anything wrong with it. I mean, we. We were down there speed weeks, and every time we run, Steve Peterson was standing in front of the car to check the restrictor plate. We were running a 15, 10 or 15,000 small restrictor plate. Right. And when we got the. When we got the, you know, the NASCAR plate, so we sat on the pole, you know, and part of the problem that we had during the race is when we left Talladega in January for a January test in Daytona, guys drove down Some drove, some flew. What happens? We got. We had a few guys, and they went out and we're out late and had one too many beers. Had a car accident. We had people in the hospital. So when I went down for the race, I had a guy. I never gassed a car before. I was a tire changer short. You know, we were short, like, three or four people. And so we had a problem on pit road. Didn't get the car full.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Lost a lot of spots.

[Robin Pemberton]

Lost. I mean, we went a lap down, we met our lap app under green. I mean, and we were coming. And then that's when, you know, in my heart, I knew we were going to have a good finish. And I really thought we could still win a race. And then that's when there was a little. Little thing up the front stretch with Bobby Hillen. Bobby Hillen and this, that, and the other.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And that's when Kyle yanked him by the helmet.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

For not holding his brakes.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Because he come down the racetrack.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yep. Came back up on the racetrack and clobbered him. Yeah. That was a bad one.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, that was a fast car.

[Robin Pemberton]

That was a fast car. Yeah, it really was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. I mean, that was right around the time, I guess, guys were starting to figure out how to tie down the back of the car. And then the crazy shocks came in.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, it was nuts.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Those damn shocks. I was in 98. I started driving the Xfinity car for Tony Jr. And this is. They evolved. They have really learned how aggressive they could be with these shocks in the rear bleed. And so basically, you know, for folks listening, they. They build a rear shock that would hold the car down on the ground and would not extend.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. And you're talking so post qualifying heights rules, Right?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

So there's so many pounds of force holding this shock in. And Tony Jr. I went into the hauler. We were at the shop, and I go out into the parking lot, go into the hauler, and he's got the shock dyno in there, and they're working on some shocks. And he put one of them shocks on that shock dyno and started running it. And it looked like the. It's the top. The top of that Penske.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Look like it was pulling the eye out of it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Looked like it was. It. It looked like it was turned to fluid.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I could see the body of the shock moving, and I was like, I got out of there. I thought they were gonna kill themselves.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm like, this thing's gonna come apart. Something here is gonna Fail, because I don't know that, you know, this machine can actually do the forces that are being asked of it in this moment. And that shock looks like liquid. Like the body of that shock is deformed in this. I'm like, I'm getting out of here. I'm not knocking my damn teeth out. So it was pretty scary.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, we did. We. We did. I put a groove in the tube.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What is that?

[Robin Pemberton]

So we machined it first. I had to do it by hand. Well, they went through inspection and all of a sudden they started kneeling on the back of the car. And then. And they said, well, it's got to come up in a couple of seconds. Well, they're all tied down. They weren't moving. So to make qualifying. So we rolled out and I had this set of shocks in the trailer that had a lot of bleed, but it had a lot of rebound in it. And I put them on. We qualified in top five. It was good. But what we wound up doing after that is you'd make a run and you would put a. You would put a groove in the tube so when it started to extend back out, trying to get to its ride height, it wouldn't move. When it finally got to that groove, then it had bleed in it, and then it would pop up. Like, you'd sit on pit road and the car would come in like this, like on the tailpipes, right. And you'd be sitting there smiling. Watch, watch, watch, watch. And you watch. All of a sudden the car would sit there and all of a sudden it goes whoop. And it pop up just like that. Oh, it was perfect. You know, the stuff that we all did, right? I mean, you did something. You did something different. Tony did something different. I did something different, you know, but it was. It was fun.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, I loved it.

[Robin Pemberton]

So you got caught. It was fun.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. I've got the deck lid from Harry Gantt's car, that Petrie. Yeah. It has electric. Electric driven hydraulics. Well, I guess it's not hydraulic. This is electric motor that would move the blade. But I've got the deck lid. And he says, I mean, he's. He's. I think he's telling the truth, but he's like, man, we put that thing on and we ran it in qualifying, but then we were too scared to race it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Like they unwired it or whatever. But I don't know, man. I imagine the in trouble they would have got themselves into.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, my God.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

If they'd gotten called for that.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's a Lifestyle.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Do you remember we might have taught a. Remind me if we talked about this. Do you remember when we were at Martinsville and everybody thought somebody was running trash control? Did we talk about that? Because this has kind of come up in the short track world when a car is good. There's this really heavy belief that in super late models and in pro late models and now filtering into a late model stock world, traction control is super prevalent and that you can't find it. You're never going to find it. And so there's this problem that we have of, you know, we kind of feel like that it's probably. There's definitely cars on the track that have it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I believe that.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. But we don't know what. How to govern it or we don't know how they're doing it. And there's some people. I've not seen it. I've not seen what a device looks like. I wouldn't even know if it was laying on the table right here. But I know that there are people that have seen one, and I know there. It's common knowledge, the companies that make them.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And. But we were. This is going back to. I don't know, man. It feels. It was right around either is right around the time you were probably either on still on the box or getting ready to go to work with nascar. But we were at Martinsville and Helton said we were in the middle of the driver's meeting, and I'd heard a little bit of rumblings around trash control, but it was always this sort of very faint sort of, oh, you know, somebody might have it, but you're like, no way. Nobody's doing that here.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But Mike Helton stood up in front of everybody at Martinsville in the driver's meeting, and right before we went adjourned, right before they turned us loose, he got up on the mic and he said, I just want to make this clear. If there's anybody running traction control in your cars and y' all get found about, that's going to be an indefinite suspension. He made some blanket statement of like, you're gone.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Forever.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Forever. Do you remember that?

[Robin Pemberton]

I vaguely remember. I mean, not much, but I know it was going on. I mean, I. We were somewhere.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

The rumor was that I heard, and I don't know how truthful it is, that it was in the Ganassi camp and I wasn't really. I mean, I've just. I don't know that I have any real information to back that up.

[Robin Pemberton]

I don't But I don't know, there was some sort of. I knew I could hear it somewhere. Right. This car would be skipping, right? Yeah. So we were at a test. So we went to the. So we went to another test in between. Test, whatever, back when you couldn't run a lot. And I was. I talked to Gary. I said, look, I said, it matters to me. I don't want to ride anybody out. I don't know. But I said, there's some. There's some traction control out there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Are you still a pit box? You're still a crew chief?

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it's either Ford or crew chief. And I said, look, you can go out and you can. You can see the pattern of the wheel. Spin, spin, no spin, spin, no spin up off the corner at places. Okay. So we go to Richmond, and I don't even know what team I was. It might have been with Jack, with the second go round when I was with Ted, that we go to Richmond and Steve Peterson comes up and he's, you know, wanting to look. Wanting to plug into our unit, this, that and the other. And like he's accusing us, really. But Steve and I were friends. He was. He was at Roush Way, you know, after I left. And anyway, so I said. So I hauled him aside. I said, steve, did Gary tell you to do this? Well, no, not really. I said, steve, I told Gary, somebody's running traction control. Go work on the other end of the garage. Because I wasn't doing. I wouldn't do it. And it was being run. I don't know if it got into the race, but there was plenty of tests that we were at. And I'm not going to heave anybody in the ditch because these are sure high end guys and whatever. But it was. Look, you're going to try it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

There's nothing wrong with testing it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

But what happens is once you get a bite at the apple and you decide, God, we got to find a way to get this in the car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right? Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. You're going to. Somebody's going to. Somebody's gonna get off the reservation and.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, yeah, I feel like that. So what I hear today is that, you know, Bluetooth is part of it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And that the wires that you. That are utilizing it are like hair thin. Like. And you can. You can hide it in. In a fake weld. Like, you can, you know, you can hide those wires and they'll never see it. Right. And the actual device leaves the car with the driver.

[Robin Pemberton]

It's in a cigarette pouch. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't know. Right. And so it's like gotten to be. It's gotten to where with technology, phones, you can control it from your phone, they say, from pit road. Like, so with all of that rumor. Right. Whether it's all true or not, it feels like it's inevitable that this technology, at least in the short track world, is going to be problematic.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And nearly impossible to discover and govern.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right. You know, a manufacturer that is responsible for this is the only one that can help you to find it out. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And that's bad for business.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes, bad for business.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. You know, it almost feels like. And I hate to say this and put this out into the universe, but. Almost feels like you ought to figure out a way to give it to everybody.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. So work on the point system first.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm not. It's not a.

[Robin Pemberton]

This is, I'm sure, ready for traction.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

This is a short track conversation.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Just a local short trackers.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't know.

[Robin Pemberton]

Because it can't be that expensive.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I don't know. Yeah. I mean, if you give it to everybody, it certainly bring the price down if it was something that, you know, everybody knew they didn't get right.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

But, yeah, you still got to get.

[Robin Pemberton]

The front springs right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, I feel like the same way. Like, you know, I don't know what that traction control feels like, but it certainly can't make. Fix everything. Like, if the car don't turn, it still don't turn.

[Robin Pemberton]

That's right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right. And so if you're not good in the middle of the corner, I don't know how that traction troll would like. Oh, that. Well, we're gonna. We're gonna kick their ass no matter what tonight because we got traction control.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. I went up to Tri County a couple weeks ago with Larry Pollard. Remember Larry?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I do.

[Robin Pemberton]

His son's racing.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Oh, really?

[Robin Pemberton]

It was good. I spent the whole day with those guys. He wound up winning a race, which is good. Yeah. But there's. I don't see any traction control there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, probably not.

[Robin Pemberton]

They won the race. And I know damn well Larry doesn't have it because it's. You know, he's not gonna spend the money on it either. But it was.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I was up there Friday running laps. Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Oh, it's.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Practice on Friday.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We have a cars tour race there. Not this weekend, but next.

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I'm gonna run it. It's last one a year for me.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Pretty fun little racetrack. They do a good job up there.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah. I like the Racetrack.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Very nice. You know, we didn't get to any of this in. In our first conversation, but I wanted to ask you first, I guess, how comfortable are you talking about the tragedies that you've had to face with your family?

[Robin Pemberton]

Okay.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, you're. You're. The Pembertons are a big family.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. You know, this is what we did. Right. This whole sport thing was all of.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Us, you know, but you've dealt with, you know, with the. Not only the. Your brother's passing, but you're, you know, losing your son.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, it was tough.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Yeah, I. I guess. You know, we knew Ryan very well, and I got the chance to race with him, which was nice. We ran some. We'd go. One of my favorite. One of my favorite times with him was I would run a one off, and he was kind of our gm, Jack of all trades kind of guy. And when I would race, he would just crew chief. He's like, I'll just do it. And I had three or four cars running every week, and we were. We went to Chicago, Chicagoland to run a race, and our cars, our guys would drive their ass off every week. And then I show up. I'm running one or two races a year, and I showed up with Ryan, and we ran fifth and beat all of our cars.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I love that.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And me and him, he did, too.

[Robin Pemberton]

He loved it when you were driving. He loved that. He really did. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I felt like, you know, I had, you know, we had a pretty. Pretty good relationship, and it was always fun to. Because I knew he knew what he was doing. Yeah, I. You know, I don't know. I don't. I can't imagine. I think we both dealt with some loss in our lives, and I've got a lot more in front of me, you know, unfortunately, then maybe you. You've probably had more experiences with that than I have.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah. Two brothers, son, you know, the normal stuff. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Everybody deals with those things differently.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, and I don't want to. I don't want to make any assumptions, but it feels like that you've got a pretty good handle.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, I mean, I keep a lot of it inside. Right. You know, there's. You know, Lisa tells me I need to go talk to somebody. You know, I don't. You know, I just keep it inside. You know what I mean? I don't talk about it. I think about the times we had and stuff.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I mean, there's not. There's maybe not nothing wrong with that. Approach.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, hopefully not.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, but it's the, the difference is not the difference. But with, with our situation, yours included, those are the phone calls I made and received every week, every day about something. You know, Randy was never short on opinions and Ryan and you know, Bray from the contract side of things was, you know, doing this, that and the other. And you know, we always talked all the time.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I don't right now. I've, you know, Roman and I talk, but Roman's on a different deal and you know, I don't have anybody to talk to. I don't talk to anybody. You know what I mean? I don't, you know, it's. I like coming here that I talk more racing now than I do in a year without my family that talks about it. You know, this is, I like this and you know, I, I miss that different viewpoint from brothers and son and stuff like that. You know, they, I have a different way of talking, seeing it. If I was in the trenches, they looked at it differently from TV or being at the track and stuff and you know, that was always good for me.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, friggin Randy was funnier than hell. He was the funniest. He moved down here at a young age and we were roommates for a while before I got married and all that stuff. But he was a card man, I'm telling you. Yeah, we had fun together.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He. He got into the broadcasting.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Side of things. And what was that?

[Robin Pemberton]

It was Special Events Television Network was the first one.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Was his. Did he show? I mean in high school or, or growing up.

[Robin Pemberton]

He was a basketball player. He went scholarship and all kinds of stuff and he just liked the, he liked that part of it. He was good.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He's good at it.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, he's really good at it. He. He moved down here with no job and found a job and you know, he did some modeling for Wrangler jeans. He did poster.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Really.

[Robin Pemberton]

You know, he has his ass and a pair of jeans. That's all. Yeah, that's all you saw.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Right.

[Robin Pemberton]

And you know, he did it all on his, on his own, you know, and he was a good talker and you know, he, you know, him and Benny got along. Him and Ned got, you know, they all that crew all got along good over the years and he did inside Winston cup and, and he spent a lot of time with your dad.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And he would come back from somewhere. He covered some of the short truck races you and Kelly ran. He'd come back, he said, I'm gonna tell you what? Dale's pretty good. He said, but I think Kelly's better.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

And I said, are you looking at it correctly or are you just looking at it from a chick that hauls ass? Right. No, I wash. Think she's pretty good. You know, it's like, oh, whatever. Yeah, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No, he, he, she was good.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah, we.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

She definitely. I used to say that, you know, when in racing, I always love telling this. Somebody said this, this old fella come up to me one day and he goes, it's easier to pull a rope than it is to push one.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, for sure.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And I thought, you know, you, that was the way I kind of described Kelly is like you. She was gonna be fine because all you needed to do was slow her down a little bit.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Some people, they get in a car and they can't do it because they can't go.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You can't push, back it up. She was, yeah. She never could get her car to turn. And I'm like, man, as soon as you figure out how to back. As you figure out how to back the corner up, you're gonna be hard to deal with.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. It turns on your warm up lap and it doesn't turn on your fast lap. Somewhere in between is the turn. Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. Well, I, you know, I've always appreciated you. We might have talked about this, but there was one particular night that I will never forget and it imprinted on me. We were in Chicago for the playoffs. We had some kind of a dinner that we had to go to. Everybody's sitting over there listening to the music getting played. I think it was John Legend might have been the guy that was actually playing.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah, yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Me and you were standing over by the bar.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And you just were going and going and going about things going on in sport and all these things that you thought were good or bad or whatever. And I'm like, man, bench racing a little bit.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And I'm like, I came to this thing, I didn't even want to come here.

[Robin Pemberton]

Right.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

It wasn't going to be anything I wanted to do. I don't want to sit around and have dinner in the middle of town and drive all the way back out to the racetrack. But damn it, sitting in there with you bull over a couple drinks was something I'll never forget.

[Robin Pemberton]

We did best.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I think in that moment I knew who you were and you knew me and we had conversated in the past, but that night you kind of brought me in to the fold. I had the really good relationship with. With Mike Helton, and. I don't know, ever since then.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You and I kind of clicked. You had a place down in the Keys. So did I. We shared interest there and talked a lot about it, and we'd see each other from time to time down there.

[Robin Pemberton]

And it was fun.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Fun down there.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I've just always appreciated you.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I didn't know. You know, I talked to. I talked to Shelmerdine a little bit about this, and so when I was growing up in the 80s and going to the track, you. All of those guys, Shelmerdine, you name them all the parrots, all of those guys. Like, you could. You couldn't. Like, y' all were, like, larger than life. Like, y'.

[Robin Pemberton]

All.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I knew dad was a badass, and I know the drivers were great, but the guys that, like, made the cars go.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

And made the cars good and, like, y' all were so. I was so impressed and humbled, and, man, I wouldn't talk to anybody, and I was scared to be in the way. And I never thought. In my wildest. I never thought ever back, like, when I was watching you be a crew chief, I never thought I'd have a personal relationship with you. No. And I talked the same way with Kurt. I was in his holler. I was around him all the time, but. And he. You know, and me and him had a lot of conversations about that. He's like, man, I wish I would have been more, you know, personable.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You know, but y' all were just in a. You know, when you're a crew chief and you're about that life.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

There's only a few things that are important, and I'm so thankful that we became friends.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah. It's been a lot.

[Robin Pemberton]

We all are, you know.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Well, I appreciate you and the person you are, and I've always enjoyed being around you and spending time with you and talking to you.

[Robin Pemberton]

We've had. We've had some good times.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

We have. Well, let's have some more.

[Robin Pemberton]

Yes.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Robin Pemberton]

Bank on it.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

All right. Thanks for coming in today.

[Robin Pemberton]

All right. I appreciate your time.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You bet you, buddy. I appreciate yours.

[Robin Pemberton]

Thanks.

[Commercial Announcer]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Hey, race fans. It's Ryan Ellis, driver of the number 71 tabletv dgm racing chevy in the NASCAR Xfinity Series. Everyone has been trying to find the best, most straightforward way to watch our races. Well, we've got the answer. Tablo tv. Tablo is a device that gives you free access to 125 plus live and streaming channels, including the CW where you can find every lap of our Xfinity series season. Best part, you only pay once for your Tablo device and it gives you the ability to watch forever. No subscriptions. With Tablo, you're to able to watch a race live and pause it or record to watch later. Long story short, if you can't be at the track, Pablo is the next best thing. Check it out and if you like it as much as I do, use promo code Ellis at checkout to get 20 off. And right now, all supplies last. You'll also get an exclusive hero card free with your purchase. To find all the channels you can get, head to tablotv.com Ryan that's T-A-B L O-TV.com Ryan Ryan that's a great conversation with Robin. I'm glad he came back. And I don't know if everybody had ever really heard what happened in the holler with Tony Stewart and Kurt Busch. I think we all know that what, what he, what he shared, what his story that he shared happened, but we hadn't ever heard it really described. I don't think so. I don't know. I looked it up and it said just sources close to the incident. That was the only thing that I think is out there. So it's pretty cool. Yeah, he's got some stories I think every time we sat down at this table and we could do it multiple more, you know, multiple times and, and we'd get a little, a couple nuggets here and there of, of some cool history. And I hope everybody enjoyed that. We, we will definitely have Robin back his his he just seen it all you know just he's a good source of information and I even thought cross the moment crossed my mind to even actually have maybe him, Helton and Darby in together to go over like their memories of certain let's pick 10 events right where there were big moments in the sport and see if they all have different jar because them three could jar some unique memories loose that I know that he's got in there. I love that idea. Yeah that would be cool. I think we could pull it off. So a lot of fun talking to Robin. Glad he came back and I hope you all enjoyed part two or the second second edition this year. Not many times you you'd go that route right. But he's been that great of a guest.

[Robin Pemberton]

White legs.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Time for the white flag. The teardown was live on YouTube and Twitter following the race. If you haven't already headed over to dirty mo media's YouTube page please please go over there. Subscribe and turn on your notifications so you don't miss anything. Actions detrimental dropped on Monday. Denny explained everything that happened during the race at loud and including his little confrontation with his teammate Ty Gibbs. Door bumper clear Dropped on Monday they were joined by Tyler Reddick. And also on Tuesday, me and TJ had our episode of Dirty Air. And today Herman Schrader drops and I'm excited for that. Kenny Wallace went to the racetrack all by himself and whooped their ass. He just sent me a text message this morning.

[Commercial Announcer]

Good for him.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

He sent me a picture of him and Victor Lane with his trophy. Said went to the track and won all by myself. What a bald dude. He's 60. He's 61. He's a badass. To the track by himself. Unload his. Kick their ass. Load it up. Go home. What in the hell? Kenny Wallace. And on Thursday, another episode of Bless yous Heart with my wife Amy. Can't wait. We've got some information to share for you listeners that are fans of that show. Friday, an episode of Dirty 30. The highlight reel of all of our great moments throughout the week are on the Dirty 30 show every Friday. We'll see you tomorrow. Check out DirtyMomedia on Instagram, Facebook X and TikTok. Bubba Wallace here from 2311 Racing. You know what's slower than a pace car waiting at the car wash? That's when I fire up Chumba Casino. It turns these slow minutes into fast fun.

[Robin Pemberton]

With new games games every week.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You'll never get bored.

[Robin Pemberton]

Next time you're stuck in the slow Lane. Speed up with Chumba. Play [e-mail]. let's Chumbo. No purchase necessary. VGW Group void. We're prohibited by law. CTNC's 21 plus, sponsored by Jumbo Casino. Tron Aries has arrived. Hostiles.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Repeat, we have hostiles. Oh, my God.

[Robin Pemberton]

There's hundreds of them. On October 10, we came here from the digital world. The war for our world begins.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

What in God's name is that?

[Robin Pemberton]

Unimax.

[Commercial Announcer]

This is the end to this world.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No, it's not. But I can help you.

[Robin Pemberton]

Tron. Ares treated PG13 may be inappropriate for children under 13. Only in theaters October 10th. Get tickets now.