Ted Musgrave: Dodging Death, Championship Controversy & Life Full Throttle

Summary

The Dale Jr. Download

Episode: Ted Musgrave: Dodging Death, Championship Controversy & Life Full Throttle

Date: August 20, 2025
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr.
Guest: Ted Musgrave
Duration: [00:00-63:10] (excluding ads and non-content)

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Brief Overview

This episode features veteran driver Ted Musgrave, tracing his unusual and eventful journey from local short tracks in the Midwest to the heights of NASCAR’s Cup and Truck Series. With candor and humor, Musgrave explores championship heartbreaks, close calls—including a dramatic near-death plane incident—controversial racing exits, health battles, and reflections on the changing nature of NASCAR. Dale Jr. and Musgrave dive deep into what made Musgrave both a fierce competitor and an understated, no-nonsense presence in the garage.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Early Life and Family Roots in Racing

[02:39–07:11]

• Ted grows up in Evanston, IL, surrounded by racing culture—his father ran ARCA/USAC stock cars, and the family frequently worked on cars together.
• Early lessons: Handing his father welding rods as a kid, Ted suffers a welding burn and jokes, "I was the best welder in third grade, though." (04:58, Ted Musgrave)
• Ted and his brother compete against each other on tracks around Illinois and Wisconsin, fueling a friendly family rivalry.

2. Racing Up the Ladder: ASA Days

[09:49-14:28]

• Ted moves to Wisconsin to chase more frequent racing opportunities, competing in the hotbed of Midwest stock car talent alongside legends such as Dick Trickle, Butch Miller, and Mike Eddy.
• He gains a reputation as a technical innovator, sometimes forcing new rules:
  "Some of the rules are because of me... There was a rule now says the fuel cell must be behind the rear axle. There was not that rule back then." (07:39, Ted Musgrave)
• ASA is described as a tough, highly respected development ground, pivotal to the sport's evolution.

3. Breaking into NASCAR and the Cup Series

[14:52-17:50]

• Musgrave’s Cup debut comes in unfortunate circumstances after Rich Vogler’s death.
• His time with Ray DeWitt and DK Ulrich is marked by underdog resilience, including flashes of speed that get him noticed by Roush Racing.
• Notable highlight: “We had a Ford Thunderbird, we called it Arnold because it was like Arnold Schwarzenegger. That thing had some muscle.” (17:50, Ted Musgrave)

4. Roush Racing: Promise and Frustration

[20:00-23:49]

• Ted reflects on joining Roush and being teammates with Mark Martin; early flashes of success include multiple poles and a top-10 points finish.
• The downside: Team expansion, resource dilution, and reluctance to push politically or take aggressive risks.
  "I was just so happy to be there... I didn't want to demand anything. That was my problem, I think." (22:44, Ted Musgrave)
• Dale Jr. relates to this, calling out how not all successful drivers are confrontational or demanding.
  "I didn't want to ruffle feathers or piss anybody off." (23:22, Dale Jr.)

5. Turbulent Transitions: Plane Scares and Cup Series Politics

[26:07-29:16]

• Ted recounts a harrowing near-crash flying to Talladega: The plane hits treetops in heavy fog—damage is so bad the FAA grounds it.
  "That was the scariest and closest to death I think we've all been." (27:46, Ted Musgrave)
• Transition to other Cup teams: Let go by Roush in 1998, he fills in at Bill Elliott, Bud Moore, and later lands with Butch Mock/Remington (the 75 car).
• Frustration builds in underfunded or dysfunctional teams—culminating in Ted parking his car and quitting mid-race at Homestead:
  "Pulled it down pit road, behind the wall, and got out before the end of the race. I can only take so much." (35:18, Ted Musgrave)

6. Truck Series: Redemption and Racing For Fun

[36:19–41:13]

• Decision to avoid low-level Cup rides and focus on competitive entries lands Ted at Ultra Motorsports in NASCAR Trucks.
• Truck racing brings a renewed sense of camaraderie and joy:
  “It was more or less like a little recess and have fun... The people were different, too. They weren't so snobby. They'd help each other. You had a lot more fun.” (38:12, Ted Musgrave)
• Achieves major success: Seven Truck wins in 2001, multiple top points finishes, and a championship.

7. Health Crisis: Racing Through Cancer

[39:51-42:29]

• In 2003, Ted quietly battles bladder cancer.
• He details the gritty reality of chemo during the season:
  "I go to chemo on Tuesday and then go race on the weekend." (41:13, Ted Musgrave)
• Handles the health scare with trademark stoicism; never missed a race.
• After his doctor’s sudden death, he “never got [the] last treatment, never even checked if it’s all gone. Foot to the floor till it's done.” (42:09, Ted Musgrave)

8. Championship Heartbreak & NASCAR Controversy

[44:37–47:54]

• 2003: Loses the Truck championship to Travis Kvapil due to a controversial penalty for passing below the line on a restart.
  “If I had not been penalized, I win the championship. The penalty cost me the championship.” (44:37, Dale Jr. summary intro)
• Musgrave explains the chaos:
  "Instead of running in the back of Bliss... I moved to the left real quick to avoid him... You can't see the flag man, the sun's in your eyes." (45:14, Ted Musgrave)
• Wins the championship in 2005, only for his Ultra Motorsports team to shut down as Dodge exits the sport, leaving him scrambling for another ride.

9. Passing It On: The Brad Keselowski Story

[51:41–52:34]

• After being suspended for retaliating against Kelly Bires at Milwaukee, Ted recommends replacement Brad Keselowski—who nabs a pole and nearly wins, launching his career.
• Ted jokes, "The only thing is, I'm still pissed off. He never once thanked me... and then he tried to steal my sponsor!" (52:20 & 52:27, Ted Musgrave)

10. Post-Racing Life and Reflections

[53:22–62:03]

• Ted smoothly transitions out of full-time racing, moving into home-flipping and the family’s booming marina business in Mooresville, NC.
• He admits to missing racing only occasionally; prefers a stable, busy life with family.
• Still has connections in the NASCAR community—many old friends bring their boats to him for service.
• On the sport’s changes:
  “The atmosphere at the track... it was nothing like I’m used to... I kind of looked around, said, I don’t think I ever want to come back.” (55:21, Ted Musgrave)
• Keeps his trophies and championship ring tucked away; not one for nostalgia or showmanship.

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Memorable Quotes & Moments (Chronological)

• On innovation:
  “Some of the rules are because of me... There was not that rule back then.” (07:39)
• On racing in ASA/Wisconsin:
  “All winter long, I looked at this race car and the rulebook and asked, how can I make this better?” (07:21)
• On Roush era:
  “I was just so happy to be there in racing... didn’t want to argue, demand anything. That was my problem, I think.” (22:44)
• On flying life:
  “We were like way off the Runway, landing. We were in the trees... That was the scariest and closest to death I think we've all been.” (27:46)
• On quitting mid-race:
  “Pulled it behind the wall and got out before the end of the race... I can only take so much.” (35:18)
• On the Truck Series culture:
  “They weren't so snobby. They'd help each other. You had a lot more fun.” (38:12)
• On racing with cancer:
  "I go to chemo on Tuesday and then go race on the weekend.” (41:13)
• On post-career adjustment:
  “I raced 33 years straight... getting tired of the aggravation.” (53:34)
• On life now:
  “Racing kind of kept you busy. Now that I'm out of racing, I'm busier. I have less time to myself than I did before… I'm working harder now than I ever did.” (61:49)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• Ted's early racing family and Illinois roots: [02:39–07:11]
• Innovative car building and ASA racing: [07:11–14:28]
• Breaking into NASCAR/Cup Series stories: [14:52–20:00]
• Plane accident to Talladega: [26:07–29:16]
• Frustration and quitting in Homestead: [34:02–35:38]
• Truck Series opportunity and joy: [36:19–39:17]
• Cancer battle while racing: [39:51–42:29]
• 2003 Truck championship controversy: [44:37–47:54]
• Setting up Brad Keselowski for his Truck debut: [51:41–52:34]
• Reflections on retirement, family, and marina life: [53:22–62:03]

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Tone and Character

• Ted Musgrave: Dry wit, pragmatic, humble, and no-frills. He’s open about the lows as well as the highs and emphasizes taking things as they come (“foot to the floor till it’s done”).
• Dale Earnhardt Jr.: Warm, engaged, and reflective, highlighting empathy for Ted’s style and career arc. Dale repeatedly draws parallels to his own experiences as a driver not wanting to make waves.

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Summary Takeaways

Ted Musgrave’s career is a testament to grit, resilience, and integrity. His stories—spanning rulebook loopholes, life-threatening situations, sudden setbacks, and late-career redemption—offer an authentic peek behind the curtain of professional stock car racing. Musgrave’s humility, inventive mind, and loyalty to genuine competition shine, while his reflections on the changing sport and embrace of a purposeful post-racing life supply inspiration for anyone navigating reinvention.

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For listeners who missed the episode:
This conversation is essential for understanding the rollercoaster realities of professional racing at its most human—marked by laughs, lessons, close calls, heartbreaks, and, ultimately, a fulfilling second act.

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Transcript

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[Interviewer / Host]

Following is a production of Dirty Mo Media. Alright, so Ted Musgrave is the guest today and he is out in the lobby so we're gonna get him in here quickly. Ted raced in the Cup Series. I raced against Ted a little bit and then he got into the Truck Series and had an incredible career, winning a lot of races for Dodge, winning a championship. But there's been some quirky little things that have happened over the course of his career. He was let go mid season at one point from a very good ride in the Cup Series. He left a team in the middle of a race, apparently before the very final race of the season. Just one more race left, but Ted walked away. And then after winning the championship in the Truck series, his team shut down. I mean it's just interesting. We got to hear these stories. Let's get him in the room. Let's get started. This should be a lot of fun. Ted Musgrave on the Dell Jr. Download. There he is.

[Ted Musgrave]

What's up? Same stuff, different day, buddy.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sir, here's your seat. We're getting started.

[Ted Musgrave]

The hot seat.

[Interviewer / Host]

The hot seat. It's good to see you.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, it's kind of good to be here, I guess. Yeah, well, got me off of work.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah? What's work look like?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I help work and operate Musgrave Marine. Justin, my son, operates this.

[Interviewer / Host]

That's right. I got my boat over.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, you got your boat over here. No, actually, we just got done working on loose change.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host]

There you go, fixing that thing.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, well, it's a. It's a charter boat now.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But, yeah, our business is just phenomenal right now. We just can't keep up. So as soon as I get done here, I gotta change clothes, go back to work.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, I'm always over there. Tomorrow, me and Amy gonna take ours out for a little while.

[Ted Musgrave]

About time.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

I know you haven't done it.

[Interviewer / Host]

It's been hard to find the time. But I love that new. Yeah. With old Gibson, but I love it.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, we keep an eye on you.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Cool boat. Me and you never really got a chance to talk a whole lot.

[Ted Musgrave]

No.

[Interviewer / Host]

During the racing?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, actually, I was just kind of focused on what I was going to be doing. And. You were focused you're going to be doing? I don't know. I just never went there to make friends, I guess.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, just there to try to win races.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Where were you born?

[Ted Musgrave]

Evanston, Illinois.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, up there in Chicagoland area. Oh, yeah. It was tough and fun up there, I'll tell you what. But, yeah, I was born and raised up there and lived in there, Illinois, for quite a while until I finally moved to Wisconsin. Just because of the racing?

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, I could race five nights a week, six nights a week, seven nights a week if you wanted to, but Illinois was my stomping grounds.

[Interviewer / Host]

Was your family involved in racing? How did you get the bug?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, well, actually, my dad, he ran a USEC stocks Marca, which was ARCA back then. John Marcum started that series. And he actually was more of an independent driver, you know, traveled around the country and raced everywhere. I mean, Langhorne, Pennsylvania, he's one. He won out in Ascot Stadium. He's been all around. So the race car was in the shop? Yeah, you know, the garage, I should say, at home. Well, as you know, hey, there's a race car right up my backyard in the garage here. You get interested? Help. As a matter of fact, I had one story where he was welding a roll cage in a car, and my job was to hand Them welding rods. So I was curious of what was going on. So I put these little goggles on from torching and I put those on. I was watching them weld. Well, I had no face shield or nothing. Well, after about a full day of welding and handling welding rods, I got burnt all over my face. It looked like it was a disease on me or something. But that is the worst. I was the best welder in third grade, though.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

After watching it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But, yeah, that's how I started. My dad did, you know, know he was in racing quite a bit, and he actually was actually a mechanic for all the trucks and, you know, and material yards and stuff like that. That was his job. Okay, but racing was off the side.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. So how did you get your opportunity to. To drive yourself?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, when I first started out, like I say, when my dad was getting older, my older brother Tom, you know, started racing. Well, my dad was like, okay, maybe I need to step back and get my kids racing. So then I got a car and I started racing on cargo. My first one was a 1971 Ford Torino. Oh, I think the thing weighed like 4,200 pounds. Well, it was a quarter mile racetrack, Waukegan Speedway. The only way you pass is you knock the guy out of the way. Oh, yeah, that was quite interesting. In the pits after races every now and then. But that was my first race car, was a 71 Ford Torino. Did very well there. You know, that was my stomping grounds. And that's where I started racing. And actually I built. Later on in the, you know, in my career, I built a nice race car and went back there and set all the track records. To this day, Joaquin speedway is no longer there. But I hold the fastest core trophy dash and features and stuff like that. So that's pretty cool.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Who were you racing against back then over at that track?

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, boy. Like Bob Roper and I mean, there were just so many people back then, you know, that come from everywhere. Frank Carrera and I like to say it was so much going on at that time. We, you know, I was only 18 years old. I started when I was 18. My brother started when he was 17 and I was racing against him too. So we always had a little family feud. Who was going to win?

[Interviewer / Host]

Is that right? Was it always healthy?

[Ted Musgrave]

It was. It was. Because like I said, my dad owned everything, so we had to be careful.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Did y' all keep everything at the same place?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yes. Yeah, we did. You know, Mundelein, Illinois. We lived there. We kept everything right at that spot. But then when I moved to Wisconsin with my family, you know, we first moved there to. My dad still worked in Illinois. I stayed in Wisconsin. And all I did in a shop was work on race cars. That was my job.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, yeah.

[Interviewer / Host]

You made a living?

[Ted Musgrave]

I made a living at it. That was the deal where that's unique. Well, I had a race against people like Dick Trickle and everybody that was doing the same thing.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure.

[Ted Musgrave]

So all winter long, I looked at this race car and it looked at the rule book and said, how can I make this better? And I came up with some ideas and some things that were just crazy. Some work, some didn't. And sometimes if you look at the rule book, I. Some of the rules are because of me.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, you look at now, there was a rule now says, okay, fuel cells must be behind rear axle between the frame rails. There was not that rule in back then. So I took a fuel cell mounted on the right side of the car in the middle, because they weighed the cars before he went on the racetrack. Right side weight, total weight. So he went across the scales, went on the racetrack, erased a feature, and after that, you're done. So I figured, well, heck, if I put this fuel cell on the right side as the race is going on, I'm losing right side weight, Gaining left side weight. I put it in the middle. So I didn't have the swinging weight in the rear. So now it only lasted like a week and a half. Officials are scratching their heads going, what did you do? I said, there's no rule on this. You can put the fuel cell anywhere. Well, we can have later. There is amendment to the rule. Here's my rule. Yeah. So there's a lot of them things I did up there.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But when you just concentrate on a race car all year long, every day. Oh, yeah, you can come up with some good ideas.

[Interviewer / Host]

In the wintertime, you're sitting around thinking all the time about what? You know, how to make next year's car better.

[Ted Musgrave]

That's all it was about. So made a living at it for sure.

[Interviewer / Host]

You moved to Wisconsin at what age?

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, it was probably 19 years old. 18. 19 years old by yourself? No, no, I moved with the family up there.

[Interviewer / Host]

Why did they move?

[Ted Musgrave]

They wanted to get out of the Illinois area. My dad liked up in the Wisconsin area. We used to vacation up at Wisconsin Dells.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay.

[Ted Musgrave]

He loved the area and so did we, you know, so he goes, boy, I wouldn't mind just selling out and build a home up in that area. Which we did was called Adam's Friendship. But my dad still had the job in Illinois, so he traveled back and forth. Well, not every day. He come up every weekend.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay.

[Ted Musgrave]

But I stayed there, you know. Well, like I say, it snows knee deep or even higher in Wisconsin in the wintertime, so I stayed up there to take care of the family, plow the driveways, this that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Is your dad still racing? I mean, I'm sorry, Is your brother still racing?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, no, my brother's not racing anymore. He did finish up driving sprint cars for a while, but then after a few flips and this and then that, he kind of gave that up, too. So, no, he's not now.

[Interviewer / Host]

And so when you go to Wisconsin, did you go straight to ASA at that point?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, almost like I say, I was racing against, like I say, people like Trickle and Marzavka and Tom Refner and all these people up there. We had our little CWRA called Central Wisconsin Racing Association. So after running all those races and honing my skills against them people, which you really had to be good to do, well, I started traveling a little bit. I go here to go there, do pretty good. You know, I'd hold my own against the people in Michigan. A lot of good drivers in Michigan go to Ohio. A lot of good drivers there. So I kind of stacked up and did pretty well on it. Well, I've got noticed by a guy. Yes. And I'd started driving an ASA for Terry Baker. Oh, yes, yes. You know, Jimmy Johnson was even there one time, but Howie Leto was my crew chief. We ran some ASA races and again, did good, good equipment, good people, you know, I can say so. We did very well in ASAs, and that's how I got noticed, you know, throughout the ranks to get into the NASCAR situation, too.

[Interviewer / Host]

You raced against Dick Trickle? I heard stories that he would. He would show up and not. He wouldn't even practice. They'd stop practice to let him let his truck in and he would unload his car and set quick time and win the race.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, that's true. You know, we see it quite often because he'd be working in the shop. Yeah, he'd work in the shop on that thing, get it loaded up for the last min. And like I say, just roll it off the truck, get it out there, make your two laps of qualifying, get on the pole. I've. I've actually got good at that, too. At Capital Madison Speedway. I was doing that too, because I worked at. At Becker Forest Products, and I wouldn't have a whole Lot of time, like I say, you know, quick, work on the car and change. I was actually changing the gear and everything else. While it's still on the hauler, while we're getting things ready and warmed up, pull it off, Go qualify and get fast time.

[Interviewer / Host]

Damn. Yeah. So racing in the ASA series, you raced against Alan Quickie. Was Mark Martin gone by that particular point? What, around what time is this?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, you get to Ellen Quickie, Mark Martin, when they were in asa, they were just leaving and getting their big breaks when I kind of eased in there and start. But I still had a run against people like Butch Miller.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yep.

[Ted Musgrave]

Seneca, Seneca Howe, Mike Eddy, you know, all these people. That was my group I had a fight against. And Butch Miller was probably the hardest guy to beat. He was really good.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. So I guess describe the essay series. I kind of remember what it was like, or I remember the identity or the vibe of the series back then, being a kid in the 80s. But explain what ASA was like. Is it any comparable to what might be going on today? And I know there's an ASA series that runs in the same southeast Super Late Models, but, Mark, guys like you, Alan Quickie, Trickle, y' all put ASA on the map. Like, ASA was a very prominent, respected series, but all of a sudden, a lot of the drivers going into the cup series are coming from out of asa, because it was like, man, if you can go up there and beat, you know, Trickle or. Or you or Alan Quickie, you know, that was a good measuring stick for a talented driver.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, we had a lot of good teams, a lot of good drivers. The series grew. They went to different venues. They got where there's pit stops, too, you know, so that was all involved. So you had to have a good crew.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sounds expensive.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, yeah. I mean, it wasn't a whole lot of people. You had to have, you know, some kind of a sponsor or. Or owner that had a deep pocket.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But that's where I was actually Good, because I landed, like I said, with Terry Baker. He had gas stations, so he was well off. And after I drove for him, I drove for Jerry Gunderman, which G and G Trucking up there in Franklin. That's. Mark Martin drove for him quite a bit, too. So I was actually the shadow, I guess you could say, of Quickie and Mark, wherever they were going, I kind of just filled in right behind.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, and a lot of, like, dad would go run some ASA races. He got him a Dylan Carr and Bobby Allison, and so a lot of. A lot of cup guys Would even go up there and run. And they knew that, you know, it was challenged. Dad struggled to, like, really, you know, find speed in the minimal starts that he had. But. And a lot of great crew chiefs like finning and those guys came out of that, you know, that series.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, actually Jimmy's brother Jeffrey was one of my crew chiefs too, up there in Wisconsin. So you, you had a good group of people. No matter if it's drivers, owners, crew chiefs, crew members, you know, they were really good. They honed their skills up there.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, there was a time when it felt like a lot of people that were coming into the industry were coming out of ASA and out of Wisconsin in that area. How do you, you know, you. You had a lot of success because you end up getting noticed and recognized. And one day you get a call to do a couple of cup starts. In 1990, filling in. Rich Vogler was going to race and was killed in a crash. And they called you.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, that was a very unfortunate.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure.

[Ted Musgrave]

Very unfortunate situation that, like you say, Rich Vogler was going to run some races for Ray and to end DeWitt. And I think the first one was at Michigan International Speedway.

[Interviewer / Host]

Who is Ray and who's Ray DeWitt?

[Ted Musgrave]

The background of Ray DeWitt, you know, from Michigan. He always kind of hung around and helped racers. As a matter of fact, I think he was helping on the backside. A little Butch Miller, little financial stuff, a little bit of group together.

[Interviewer / Host]

What did this car look like?

[Ted Musgrave]

What did a car look like?

[Interviewer / Host]

I can't remember the scheme or the color.

[Ted Musgrave]

My first. The first car that we had there, it was just basically why we didn't have any sponsor. I think we had auto Value or something like that for just a one race deal.

[Interviewer / Host]

What number?

[Ted Musgrave]

55.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay.

[Ted Musgrave]

No, I'm sorry. I think we had number two to start with. We switched to 55 because the number two got bought out. DK Ulrich was involved here.

[Interviewer / Host]

Okay.

[Ted Musgrave]

And so we started racing. My first race in NASCAR was Michigan International Speedway. Imagine that. You go from short tracks to all of a sudden, oh, here's Michigan. You know, there's a corner way down there. Yeah, but we went there, did very well, actually. We qualified. I remember starting the race, same row as Richard Petty. I look over and there he is. You know, I'm like, we're not doing too bad. I think we were like 22nd or whatever started the race. We ran maybe 30 laps and the motor gave up. Yeah, it's like, oh, man. You know, I never really got an experience. So after the race, I Said, hey, we'd like to run some more races. Would you mind continuing this? I said, well, sure. You know, I think it was like Phoenix and a few other ones. And I think out of like four of the races, two or three times a motor never finished. So, yeah, it wasn't a very good start of this career. But after that, they got involved with DK Ulrich. We got some different people. They moved the team down here because it was up in Michigan. Yeah. So everything kind of got a little bit better. So I just kind of signed a contract to run that year.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, that's. Was. Y' all ended up with Jasper.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, we had Jasper's sponsor because they were. They were building the engine so they would. Hiawassee, Georgia. I can't. I'm thinking about it for who actually was building them, but they would build the race engines. You know, sponsor, almost Jasper. I mean. But I remember.

[Interviewer / Host]

I remember knowing that DK was involved in some way. And that had, in my mind as a kid back then, like, ernie Irvin drove DK's number two car, Kroger, all that stuff. And then Ernie gets into the four, and DK's team sort of morphed into this 55. Not exactly the true story. You. You're telling the story exactly how it happened. But I remember you coming in and driving that car and having, like, these flash moments. We did, like, y' all had a really. I feel like there was a race at Pocono where y' all ran top three or top five, and right before you get the opportunity to drive for Roush. Right. It was those moments. Right. That would get Roush interested.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. What happened there? We switched some things over. We had. At that time, we had a Pontiac, we had a Chevrolet, we had a Ford. We had all kinds of mixed up, you know, stuff, but we had a. We built a Ford Thunderbird. We had Pro Motor bill us an engine, Ford engine. And I'll tell you what, that thing, we called it Arnold because it was like Arnold Schwarzenegger. That thing had some muscle. And that's where we ran really good at Michigan, leading a race. Fuel mileage got me there. Pocono always good. So we had some really, like I say, flashes of brilliance every now and then, but it kind of fizzled a little bit every now and then. But every now and then we'd run really good. So we got noticed back then, if you remember, you know, Mark was already here in nascar and I was back at Jerry Gunderman's, and Mark would come up, do an appearance or race at Milwaukee. And they say I'd build a car for him and he'd come up and make sure the seat's fine and this and that. And I'm actually working on his car and mine's sitting over in a corner, you know, get him all ready to go. So I think it was like a repay back when Wally Dahlenbeck was going to leave Rauch and I left a seat open. And I think Mark seen what I was kind of doing with limited supplies, I guess you could say, in nascar. So he's like told, Jack goes, why don't you give him a shot? So that was kind of how I got over to Roush. But one of the things that kind of threw me a curve too was I actually had a chance to fill in for Richard when Richard the King retired. They call me, really. I've actually got. Yeah, I actually met Richard and Dale in min and everybody up there at the shop. We looked at a shop. We, you know, kind of try to figure things out. He's like, okay, we'd like to have you be damn. Richard's deal. I've got newspaper articles because actually one says the man who turned on the King. Well, I couldn't really turn him down. I really wanted to write for him, but DK said in the contract I couldn't do that. He's going to hold me to the contract that I signed for them, which I found out later I could have got out of. But anyway, I was going to drive for Richard, but then I had to drive another year for Radius and then moved on to Roush.

[Interviewer / Host]

Right. The opportunity to go drive for Roush and to be teammates with Mark, that had to been like a dream come true.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, yeah. Don't get me wrong, I thought that was awesome deal. You know, I knew Mark, I, you know, it's like cool, you know, I get to race with him and this and that. So there again, I mean, I think my first year, I mean, I've got a lot of polls. I had like Richmond, I think spring and fall and Martinsville and a lot of those places had polls. Was able to run a clash, actually. I think, you know, your dad had a really bad year. I actually beat him in point standings too. One time. I think I was like 6 or 7 fifth or whatever in points. Things were doing pretty well. But back then, like I say, getting poles were pretty tough because it was always a short track and Mark was always contested by it. He's always going to need more motor. Need more motor. Well, everybody had qualifying Engines. So at Roush, what it was is your race motor from the previous week got brake cleaned, he put valve springs on it, and that's what you go qualify with next week. So it's pretty tough to get poles when you're looking over there. This guy's got lightweight cranks. He's got this, he's got qualifying motor. So getting polls was really tough for us.

[Interviewer / Host]

Right. Yeah. The first season, you had three polls. Fifteenth in points in 1995, your second season, seventh in points. A lot of great results. Seven top fives, two top twos. And in 96 and 97, things kind of changed, Started to struggle somewhat. You know, you. I think, you know, you would. You would net out and prove your. Your talent in. In the truck series down the road. But what was. What. What was the. What was the issue that didn't allow things to work out at Roush? Because I felt like, you know, seeing you drive the 55 car and seeing those flashes, knowing the equipment you were in and seeing the flashes of potential. You come into the Roush deal replacing Wally. That deal wasn't really going well. You get in it, it starts to go right. But what happened to have it kind.

[Ted Musgrave]

Of unravel, I think a little bit, too, was when we started to add more teams.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, we brought on Jeff, which was fine. Danny, everything was going, you know, and Chad Little this and that. So things kind of got little spread out.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, let's put it that way. And then, you know, a lot of changes behind the scenes with people and this and that and things just, like I say, just didn't kind of work out as well as we'd like to. And, I mean, it is what it is, you know, don't get me wrong. I think if I had to go back and do it again, I was just so, I don't know, happy just to be there in racing. I always took care of the equipment. I didn't want to tear nothing up. I didn't want to argue, demand anything. That was my problem, I think.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, yeah, I mean, you know, like, when Jeff come along, you know, oh, no, I gotta have this chassis. No, I gotta have him for a crew chief. No, I'm gonna have this, you know, and it was good for him. I mean, that made his team better. You know, I was just happy. Like, just put me in a seat, let me drive. I'm just so happy to be waves.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

I didn't want to make any waves, you know, but then again, like I say, just try to. In my previous years of owning my own cars and owning my own equipment, I didn't push it probably to the very edge. You know, I could have paid. Should have been out there. Hey, I'm going to put a qualifying lap on. I ain't lifting until this thing crashes. I wasn't quite like that. That was my problem, I believe.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, I feel like I would have said I was. I could say the same thing about myself in terms of, like, not being very. Not being someone who demanded things be a certain way or vocal about, you know, in, you know, personnel, equipment. I didn't want to ruffle feathers or piss anybody off.

[Ted Musgrave]

Exactly.

[Interviewer / Host]

Whereas you're right, like, some guys will go, go in the room and go, this is what I need.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, that's kind of what Jeff did. He elevated his team and he had results. And I'm just back there going, I just want to drive. I don't want to make waves. I'm just happy to be here.

[TJ Majors]

Hey, I'm TJ Majors. You may know me as the co host for the Dirty Air show. With me is the producer, Travis.

[Ted Musgrave]

Tj, I got a question for you. Every Tuesday you come in here talking about how great your cell phone is and how the service is awesome. Where the hell did you get it from?

[TJ Majors]

Yeah, man, I recently joined the consumer cellular family and, man, I could not be happier. Got on the phone with them, got hooked up, and only took about 20 minutes, man, and I was good to go.

[Ted Musgrave]

That's great and all, but like, how's it at tracks? Because at home my phone works, but when I'm on the road, it's crap.

[TJ Majors]

You know, Traveling every week with the RFK6 team, I need to stay connected, man. And I have had nothing but success at these tracks, which can be challenging. And, man, I've been able to use the hotspot, call, text, everything. So pleasantly surprised with it, man. Awesome service. And man, I'm looking really forward to that nice orange number six car this weekend at Daytona. I think it's a great looking car. I've seen it and man, I'm just gonna look good in victory lane.

[Ted Musgrave]

All right, so. But how do I go about getting this? Because I don't have time. I'm not trying to go stand in line at a store, wait, grab a number, wait, 30 minutes, like, I just don't have time for that.

[TJ Majors]

That's the easiest part, man. Just call their 100 US based customer service representatives and in about 20 minutes, you'll be good to go. I chose the 2 for $60 plan. It's not a prepaid option. They helped me decide which one was best for me. And I know exactly what I'm paying each month. Everything is easy to understand. With no long term contract. Switch to Consumers earlier now and get 25 off with the code DJD25. That's DJD25 for 25 off. When you switch to consumer cellular, go to consumer cellular.com DJD and use promo code DJD25.

[Ted Musgrave]

Morning. One sausage McMuffin with egg, please. Okay, your total is. Wait, let's negotiate. How's about you throw in hash browns for a dollar? Well, yes sir, that price is already a dollar. Take it or leave it. Take it, I guess. Buy one, add one for a dollar on sausage McMuffin with egg, hash browns and more with McValue. Most locations open 5am or earlier. Price and participation may very limited time only. Valid for item of equal or lesser value.

[Interviewer / Host]

Tell me about the plane story. Flying with, I guess Mark Martin in his plane, there was a bit of a close call.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, when you said plane, I don't know, I had so many of them.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, kind of, you know, DK Ulrich were up there flying on our landing gear and falling down and this and that. On one time the motor half quit. But this one here, we had a plane full and we're going to Talladega to test. Jimmy Fenning's on board and everybody, you know, Mark was going to meet us there. So we took off out of Greensboro, I believe with everybody. And it was foggy, kind of rainy down there in Talladega. And we made an approach, coming in to land. It was Mark's pilot, actually. And we had a rental plane, it was a King Air. And we started to land and I'm kind of wondering. I heard the alarm go off. You know, it's like 200ft or whatever. I just still can't see anything. I said, this ain't right.

[Interviewer / Host]

Right.

[Ted Musgrave]

So at the last minute, I looked out the window, we started hearing something. Bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. It was treetops, damn it. Yeah, we were hitting the tree tops of the trees, the wings and everything. Luckily, Captain Ron, as we call him, throttled up real hard, pulled us up out of there or else. We were just. We were like way off the Runway, landing. We were in the trees, damn it. So. Oh, man, that was close.

[Interviewer / Host]

So you made another approach and finally got in there?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, no, we went to Birmingham. We went, you know, took a. There's an ILS there and stuff.

[Interviewer / Host]

There was damage to the plane.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yes, there was damage to the plane. We couldn't fly it anymore. The FAA had to come out. I mean, there were sticks stuck in the oil coolers. Oh, yeah, there was. That's. I mean, that's as close as you're going to get.

[Interviewer / Host]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Jimmy Finnegan. I could see his eyes were about biggest saucers.

[Interviewer / Host]

I've had some pretty bad experiences with planes, and. I can imagine, Joe. No. And sort of the cowboy style of some of the pilots that we had back then, and we were all in those King Airs and just. Just, you know, not really to your point. Like, you know, you didn't. You know, you. You take off and be like, yeah, yeah, we should be good. You know, the ceiling's a little low where we're going to land. And you get there and you're like, it's really low. Oh, you know, and you would be like, 300ft. That's not a problem. And you'd get there and it's like 150ft. Well, it's changed a little bit. We're still going to try to get in there.

[Ted Musgrave]

That was. That was the scariest and closest to death, I think we've all been. But there was another time flying with Mark Martin back when he was living in Florida, got his own plane, and I traveled with him back and forth to the racetrack. I think he was. I'm not sure was the King Air or his jet, but he had his pilot with him. No, it was the King Air because he flew left seat. Mark was starting to learn how to fly. So I get on board and I'm sitting in the back, and I look, and also Mark's in the left seat, and I'm like, oh, he's captain. He's flying this thing tonight. You know, I'm like, oh. So we get going and we. The day was fine. There was no storm, no nothing. But we took off and we got up and we started getting pretty heavy clouds. So I see Mark struggling, and all of a sudden I see him go, lift off his hands off the thing goes. I can't do it. Take over. You know, he got disoriented. You know, he wasn't used to the instruments and stuff or whatever. I'm like, oh, geez.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Yeah. That's pretty terrifying. In 1998, middle of the season, you got let go from Roush. Despite you have full sponsorship, Kevin LePage would be brought in to drive the car. Did you see that coming?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, kind of. We talked about it. You know, it's like, okay, you know, Things ain't right. And I mean, I even get to, like, Watkins Glen, you know, and I couldn't even practice because the pedals and went to push the brake pedal down and it would hit the steering column. I had no brakes. There was all kinds of things going on, you know, and everybody was getting frustrated and this and that. So we just said, you know, maybe we just make a change. It was mutual in a way. Yeah, it was. You know, you see, no arguments. There was nothing going on. You know, it's like, okay, you know, but the problem is not problem for. There was in my contract said they had to pay me for the rest of the year and I could still go out and drive other people's race cars, which I did for, you know, Bill Elliot and Bud Moore and, you know, all the other ones. So it was kind of a mutual thing, you know, it's like, all right, well, it is what it is.

[Interviewer / Host]

What was the rest of that year like? Did you, you know, going and driving for other teams and did you kind of see, you know, where, you know, things were better or not as good with some other programs or.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I mean, you do you get to see it on the inside of what these other teams are like. And, you know, driving for Bill, you know, was pretty cool. You know, that was all right. But I'll tell you what, I drove a couple races for Bud Moore, the nicest man I ever met in racing. You know, you go over there to his shop, you know, in Spartanburg. You know, it's just the old time, old school stuff, you know, and, you know, I just loved him to death. The guys were great. You know, the. The. Bud was just awesome to work for. We didn't have, you know, great equipment. We were just trying to get, you know, it's the 50th anniversary of NASCAR, and he wanted to run a couple races.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So we did.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, he was kind of on the tail end of his whole deal right around that time.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, Greg was still building the engines and, you know, it was just a family operation, but like I said, it was very enjoyable to work with him.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. In 1999, you got to drive for Butch Mock the 75 car, I think that was the hell was a sponsor on that car.

[Ted Musgrave]

Remington.

[Interviewer / Host]

Remington, that's right.

[Ted Musgrave]

We had Remington. We had Polaris.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yes.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, we had a couple of good sponsors. And, you know, the funny thing was there too, you know, and Butch, you know, said, hey, we're gonna, you know, get Robbery Yates Motors. We're gonna build this great car. For super speedways. And we took it to wind tunnel with like blew the best it ever did and take it on the racetrack and the thing wouldn't fall out of the sky. I mean, I couldn't figure this out, you know, wide open. Run around out there and couldn't get it going. Couldn't get it going. Robert scratching his head, he goes, I gave you, you know, dyno motors, you know, that are great and everything. Well, come to find out that was back when we ran like 100 pound springs in the rear and the things traveled 18 inches and all that kind of stuff. Oh, it was crazy. But you remember that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, what happened was when they set the car up, they didn't squat it all the way down and line up the rear end and the drive shaft and all that stuff. And sure enough I was. The harmonics were killing the engine and stuff.

[Interviewer / Host]

When it would get into travel, we were pulling those cars down.

[Ted Musgrave]

They would.

[Interviewer / Host]

They were putting some crazy things in these shocks to hold these cars down.

[Ted Musgrave]

Speaking of that, remember Mark Martin killed everybody at Talladega?

[Interviewer / Host]

Yes.

[Ted Musgrave]

He had, that's. He had shock absorber. I mean, I swear the rebound we had were like fender washers. I mean that thing we. He. I had a set too and tried it in practice and I couldn't hardly hang on to that thing. It was sucked down so hard. Had no rebound. It just bounced all over the place.

[Interviewer / Host]

Make your kidneys hurt.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh my gosh. You know, and Mark says, I'm going to try this in a race. Well, it was fast, you know, but if you're in traffic or whatever, you couldn't hang on to this thing.

[Interviewer / Host]

Right.

[Ted Musgrave]

I went back to the normal stuff. He tried it. Sure enough, he got the lead. No one around him, he just.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, man, he was gone. It was terrible.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, that was something. They got rid of those after a couple of years. But while that was around, around, because we had them even in the Busch series in 99 and it was pretty uncomfort comfortable.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, it was really bad bouncing around on the track.

[Interviewer / Host]

I didn't even know Talladega had bumps off of turn two till we put them things on. You're like, holy crap. Driving off a set of stairs.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. I didn't think the car would hold up as violent as it was. He made it.

[Interviewer / Host]

I was telling the story about how the tires would balloon up at Dover middle of the race, about lap 200, you'd be bouncing around that track so bad it'd tear the interior sheet metal out of the car. But that's how violent some of those races were back then.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. And then you think, you know, Dover, everybody's like, oh, my God, that's a long race. Remember back when it was 500 laps? Oh, yeah. I remember looking over, it's 250 laps in. I'm like, oh, you're halfway.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yep. You would end up leaving Butch Mock with one race left in the season. That is the strangest time.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, my God. Behind the scenes stuff going on there, it was just hodgepodge stuff. I mean, you know, the people he was. He was actually selling a team out to Darwin ort, I believe, out of Tennessee, had a newspaper and it was just mixed up stuff. So we're down in Miami and running the race, and I know the whole crew was out partying all night. You know, you kind of even get them at the racetrack. You know, this. This is something I'm not standing for, you know, so we got out there in the race cars, terrible handling. You know, nobody really knew anything what to do. So it got down. There was a caution flag. And that's back when we raced back to the caution. So the spotter comes out and says, caution, caution. Slow down, slow down. Oh, sorry. So I slowed down. And in the meantime, as I slowed down, I said something. Okay, where we at? In position. We were 16th or whatever and one lap down, I said, how did I get a lap down? He goes, well, the guy right here is a leader. Why don't you tell me that? I could have passed him and got back on the lead lap. You know, this is down the back stretch. You know, just things like that just. Just irked me so bad. I said, you know what? I pulled it down pit road. I pulled it behind the wall to the hauler and got out before the.

[Interviewer / Host]

End of the race.

[Ted Musgrave]

Before the end of the race.

[Interviewer / Host]

Holy.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yep. And actually Ricky Rudd blew a motor or something, so he was out of race. He was standing there and they tried to get him to fill in in the car and he's like, oh, no, I'm not getting in that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So actually flew home with Ricky.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, Yeah. I jumped on his plane. So you got an extra seat. So I get home. He goes, come on.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Man, that must have been frustrating.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, Frustrating.

[Interviewer / Host]

Come to that point.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I mean, it can only take so much.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, I. I know you never.

[Interviewer / Host]

Hear about this stuff, but you seem like a level. I mean, you know, you seem like a really level guy again, you don't want to ruffle feathers.

[Ted Musgrave]

No, I don't want to rough. But it gets to a point where you're trying so hard. You know, you're trying so hard and something stupid stuff holds you back. You know, you can only take that so long.

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, this would present an opportunity for you. You would find your home in the truck series. But I'm curious, had you other opportunities to race in the cup series that you didn't take?

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, there's some times where you, like I said, you look at the. The team. I'm there to win. I'm not there to run around 26 and say, put a suit on. I'm a cop driver.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, I'm not that way. You know, if I don't have a chance to win, run top five, be respectable out there, I'd want to do it. So I had an opportunity in the trucks. I went, went over. I knew that there was an opportunity maybe to drive the cup car at. At ultra motorsports. So I went over to see Jimmy Smith. Oh, Jimmy Smith said, man, I'm sorry. I just signed Mike Wallace, you know, to drive the car. I'm like, oh, okay. I'm sorry. I just thought maybe I had an opportunity.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So I went back home and by the time I got home, my phone rang. Okay, what's this? Hey, this is Jimmy Smith. Teddy, I forgot to ask you something here. I just remembered. He says, I need a driver for my truck. I said, truck racing? He goes, yeah. He says, the number one mopar truck. He says, this is factory sponsored by Matt, you know, best of everything. He says, it's yours if you'd like to try this. I thought, well, yeah, why not? You know, if I'm out there to go win races and go for championships, I know it's in a truck series. It was the most fun I ever had. Yeah, I mean, it was great. You know, I had teammate, you know, I had Jason leffler, I had Scott riggs, you know, sometimes Jimmy Spencer, you know, I had a bunch of different teammates that drove the number two truck. I drove the number one truck.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But I had a great team, great equipment. You know, that's what it takes.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, and the attitude. And we went out and it's one lot of races, had a lot of fun.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, the truck series would be a fun series back then with a lot of guys sort of in the same position as you. Mike skinner, Todd bodine. A lot of people found sort of a. A place to, you know, enjoy racing and enjoy the. The purpose and the reason why you fell in love with it in the first place.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. You know, cup racing was 36, 38 races, you know, a year. You're hardly ever home. All the pressure, this and that, and the truck races were like 24. You can have some weekends off. You raced on Fridays and Saturdays. It was just a breath of fresh air, more or less like a little recess and have fun. You go race. So that's why, like I say, a lot of us liked it. You know, Hornaday and everybody else, Skinner and Sprague and, you know, on down the line. And it was just a lot of fun. You know, the people were different, too. You know, they weren't so snobby. They'd help each other. You had a lot more fun.

[Interviewer / Host]

Each garage, I think I don't know what it's really like these days, but each garage, from the cup to Xfinity to the truck, the pressure and the cutthroat, all that stuff sort of relaxes each garage. I think Xfinity garage is completely different in culture terms to the cup garage. A lot of people don't understand that. I can't imagine the trucks. I've never raced in the trucks, so I don't know what it's really.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, you missed it then.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, you missed a great opportunity to go with that. I mean, like I said, it was so much fun. The racing was great. We. I don't know, it was just such blast. It was more or less like going back to what you used to do when you're moving up the ladder.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You took a couple steps back. So this was a lot of fun back then. Like going back ASA racing.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Yeah. You would have a lot of success. You know, your. Your. Your cup series was. Your cup career was over, but you would have this entirely new complete chapter through racing in the truck series. You got seven wins in 2001. Second in the points to Jack Sprague. 2004. 2000. From 2002 to 2004, you were third in the championship points each season. But in 2003, you announced that you were fighting bladder cancer.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, yeah, I had that.

[Interviewer / Host]

I don't remember that. I didn't remember you even had to go do that.

[Ted Musgrave]

I mean, you don't. You know, it's just. Everybody has their own little deal, you know.

[Interviewer / Host]

How did you manage to. How did you discover what was going on?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, actually, how I discovered it was Jimmy Smith took myself, Jason Leffler, and we all went up to Salt Lake City, Utah, for snowmobiling. I think, you know, even Evan Walk, Walker Evans was there, and a Few, you know, we had a great time. I went to the bathroom and I had blood, like, oh, the same. Right. So it continued on. So I'm like, I better go see a doctor about this. So I went to the doctor and they said, yeah, you got bladder cancer, you got a tumor in your intestines and this and that. So like, oh, great. You know, here we go.

[Interviewer / Host]

Is this something that was a. I mean, had. Did you know about your family history? Was there any kind of connection?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, no, no, no, no.

[Interviewer / Host]

Nothing made this sense.

[Ted Musgrave]

This was just completely out of the blue. Yeah, completely out of blue. So, yeah, they had to go in and get this golf ball size tumor broke up and pulled out of me. I'm not even going to tell you where or how it came out, but it was not. Not nice.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So I was in a hospital for a day or two there. Then I had to go back and do a chemo, you know, for like a month or two months. So this was going on while I was racing. I go to chemo on Tuesday and then go race on the weekend.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But it didn't bother me that much, really. No.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I would say even the first time, they even had a backup driver from Martinsville because Jimmy Smith says, I'm going to have somebody here just in case you can't. I was fine. I think it was the best Martinsville race ever ran.

[Interviewer / Host]

So the, the. You got the cancer taken care of and that's a.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, here's the thing. I was going back for my last treatment. Dr. Cass here in Mooresville.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

I was going back to his practice for the last treatment. I went there and the place was closed up. I'm like, what the heck happened here? He was killed. He was health nut, you know, run a bicycle all the time.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Got hit.

[Interviewer / Host]

Oh.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. So I never got my last treatment. And then to find out what was. If everything's okay. So I'm like, I hope it's okay, you know? Yeah.

[Interviewer / Host]

You have no idea. That hadn't bothered you.

[Ted Musgrave]

No. I never go see a doctor. I never. I don't have a doctor. I never go. I never go doctor. I don't take. If I get a headache, I don't take aspirin. I don't take anything. Really. Yeah. Hey, foot to the floor till it's done.

[Interviewer / Host]

That's crazy. I guess it's. I guess it got taken care of.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, I guess so.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Thank goodness.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, no kidding. Hey, T.J. you know that I got my own Chevy dealership down in Tallahassee Florida. We're part of the Hendrick Automotive Group.

[TJ Majors]

Yes, I have heard of Darren Hart Jr. Chevrolet.

[Interviewer / Host]

I bet you'd be surprised on what type of Chevrolet vehicles we specialize in.

[TJ Majors]

If I had to guess, I'm going to say it would probably be Chevy trucks.

[Interviewer / Host]

Well, we definitely sell plenty of those, but actually we're really big in commercial vehicles. We actually sell a lot of crane trucks for the number one seller actually in crane trucks.

[TJ Majors]

Okay. I definitely did not see that coming.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, pretty neat, huh? So for any of our listeners shopping for commercial vehicles, here's some things you need to know about us at Dalenhardt Jr. Chevrolet. We have hundreds of trucks in stock, so you can find what you need fast. And we have people there that can help you with custom orders. So if you want to build the exact vehicle you need, we can do it. We offer complimentary delivery anywhere in the continental U.S. plus, Hendrick Automotive Group is the nation's top rated dealer group for online reputation. Visit dalejrchevy.com and click Commercial. To explore the wide range of available commercial vehicles. Our team at Dillon Hart Jr. Chevrolet will give you a world class experience. Chevrolet together. Let's drive. There was a controversial finish to the 2003 championship, and I was really surprised at your ability to put this behind you. You were penalized in the very last race for passing to the left on a restart and scored last on the lead lap. There was a lap truck in front of you that you. That NASCAR deemed that you'd moved left to pass and you lost the championship to Travis Kwapple. Me and Travis are good friends. His son's race, my late model, my Xfinity car. Yeah, great kids, y'. All. Waited 10 minutes, the whole, whole field, you know, whole series waited 10 minutes after the race to find out what NASCAR was going to do, and they decided that they would uphold the penalty and you were scored. If you had not been penalized, you win the championship. The penalty would cost you the championship.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, here's how it is and you well know too, because you raced it on there at Homestead and late day. Looking down the front straightaway, that sun is right in your eyes. You can't see nothing. It was the last caution of the day, like five laps ago or even less, maybe three. So I'm lined up and I'm right behind Mike Bliss, which was the second team truck for iwx. And Travis Kwapple, he brought another. You know, Mike Bliss is driving it. So I'm lined up right behind him and I've got To pass him and I think one other truck to win the championship, no matter whatever happens to everything else.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So I'm right behind him. We're going on the front stretch and get the green. And you can't see the flag, man, because it's just suns in their eyes. I just listened to Spotter and Spotter said, green, green, green. I took off, and next thing I know, everybody lurched forward and then locked it up. There was a stack up. So instead of running in the back of Bliss, you know, because he locked it up pretty good, I moved to the left real quick to avoid him, because if I hit, I would have knocked the radiator out. I'd have been done. So I jumped to the left, passed him, and everybody was so slow. I kind of kept going and blending in line. So it took like a lap or so. And then I hear over to radio, Eddie thrapped my. Spotter says, hey, you got to get back behind Bliss. I said, what do you mean to get back? Passed before. Oh, man. So I'm looking, and he's quite a ways back. I figure if I let off and go all the way back there, there's no way I'm going to pass back all the way back up here. It was like the end of the race was like the last lap. I had no. I had no opportunity to really get back. But if I would have thought about it at the time, you know, if I moved to the left. Oh, wait a minute. There's a. That's a penalty to do this. You know, maybe I would have had time to do it. But you're thinking, okay, I gotta pass you to. I gotta get this somehow. Hey, it slipped on us.

[Interviewer / Host]

I remember the team owner, Jimmy Smith. Jimmy. Celebrating, thinking that he'd won the championship, and then being told in that moment that they might not be the champion. And I know that you would go on and win a championship two years later in 05, and he would close the team after that year.

[Ted Musgrave]

That was wild.

[Interviewer / Host]

You know, I wonder. I know that it's a couple years removed, but I wonder if that experience had anything to do with his, you know, winning that championship. He's like, all right, I'm done.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, if you remember, Jimmy Smith helped start the truck series.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

And he always wanted to win a championship. You know, that was one of the big things. So in 2005, when we did win the championship, we said, oh, this is great. Mopar, Dodge, everything. Everybody was all happy. That was our big sponsor. Well, they left the series at that time after I won the championship. Dodge pulled out of truck racing, so we kind of scrambled over at Ultra Motorsports to find another sponsor to send. We actually switched to Fords. Then we'd build a Ford. Robert Yates building the motors. We're going to go back for a second championship. It was like a week or two before Daytona testing. Jimmy called up to the shop over here from California, said, hey, I hate to tell you guys this, but we're closing up.

[Interviewer / Host]

Damn it.

[Ted Musgrave]

I mean, yeah, I mean, it just right out of the blue.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

I think what it was is he lost. Every year he'd make a million dollars, you know, through the sponsorship. He'd take a million, stick it in his pocket, and then go race. Well, I think this following year it wasn't going to happen. So he's like, okay, I won the championship. It may cost me a little money to run next year. Let's close up.

[Interviewer / Host]

Damn.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, that's. That was a shock to everybody at this. You know, the whole place was crazy. So everybody scrambled for jobs.

[Interviewer / Host]

What did you do?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, that's when I went over to Jermaine Racing. I quick called up over down there and said, hey, you know, here's the situation. Todd was running there, and I kind of worked my way into that. Shiggy Ottore was the driver at the time of the 9 truck. So, you know, Bob Jermaine and all them guys said, you know, let's get Teddy in there now. He just won the championship. Maybe can help improve the team, this and that, you know. So I went down there and started running for them, Todd being, you know, partner in this deal. So him and I were teammates. And problem there was, I never had really good success. I did win Texas and did around okay, but I never had success, like you said, with the right people that I had over at Ultra, the right equipment. The equipment Altra was standard stuff, standard spindles, standard chassis, refined, perfected that way in the race. Any little thing that goes wrong, we know how to fix it or how to adjust. When I went over to Maine, it was all crazy. You know, I had spindles with high inclinations and shocks to do this, and it never drove. I never got comfortable with that type of deal. And, you know, if you drive from one team to another, how much changing it is. So here's your story. I know you're coming up to probably. So I had limited success. I hated these trucks the way they drove. So finally I convinced them. I said, hey, we're going to Memphis next week. Can I get a truck set up like I Used to drive, you know, here's the setup. Here's the spindles. Here's the stuff we had. I wonder, last year with this stuff, could we try it? All right, all right. So they did that. They changed the truck over. Had a truck all set up, ready to go for Memphis. Well, I'm up in Milwaukee, a hometown track, you know, used to run good up there. We're, you know, winning truck series. I'm struggling to stay in the top five in this race. I'm like, good. I could get rid of these trucks or whatever. Last couple laps, I'm going down turn one, and a restart. And I get taken out, I mean, hard head onto the wall by a lap truck, you know, so I'm rector. I'm backing up, you know, And I see this guy that's wrecked me. Kelly. Terry Byers. Yeah, he's gonna fire it up. He's in roush. He's firing up. He's gonna take off. I'm like, oh, no. And I. For not here, buddy. And I just nailed it. So I made sure he wasn't gonna finish the race. I was frustrated. Yeah, you know how it is. So anyway, I knew that wasn't a good idea, but I got it out of my system. So, anyway, I said, okay. I'm thinking I'm looking forward to Memphis coming up. Now I could get back into one of these trucks that I like. Well, there. I got a call Tuesday from Wayne Oughton saying, hey, hey, Titus, but you've been fine, and you've been suspended for the next race. Like, oh, geez, you know, I ain't got a chance to try this, but all right, whatever. So I called Mike Hillman Sr. Which is general manager at Tremaine, said, I got a phone call. I'm not gonna be able to race Memphis. I'm fined. I'm suspended. This, this, this. We gotta find a driver for the truck. He's like, all right, let me call you back in 10 minutes. So I'm sitting there thinking to myself, okay, who would I put in this? What am I gonna do? So he called me back, you know, 10 minutes later, he goes, okay, I just talked to Todd. We're gonna put Randy Lajoy in it. I said, well, I mean, I love Randy to death, but he hasn't run a truck in quite a while. And I know what's gonna happen. They're gonna change the truck back over, make my guys work twice as hard. Randy's gonna put his seat in there. Randy Lajoy seats, which he likes. I just got Like a Richardson. Yeah. My guys are gonna work themselves to death. I said, come on. I said, I've been thinking, why can't we put Brad Kowlowski in this thing?

[Interviewer / Host]

That's right.

[Ted Musgrave]

I says, he's my same height, same way, just built like I am. He's not doing anything. And I know from the previous year or two, he came and filled in for Kelly Sutton in a truck. And I watched him because I was following him for a little bit, and I said, this guy can get around this racetrack. He's got a knack for Memphis. So I finally convinced him to put Brad in it. This is a story that people don't know the truth about, you know, So I convinced him, put him in there. Sure enough, he goes out there, wins a pole, almost wins the race. Yeah, that truck's good, isn't it? You know, so that's caught your eye, Caught a lot of other people's eyes, and, you know, put Brad on the map.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, it did.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. The only thing is, I'm still pissed off about. He never once thanked me, really. He's never once said thank you for putting me in.

[Interviewer / Host]

No kidding.

[Ted Musgrave]

And then about a year or two later, he tried to steal my sponsor.

[Interviewer / Host]

Really?

[Ted Musgrave]

Team asc.

[Interviewer / Host]

No kidding.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. Double whammy.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Thank you.

[Interviewer / Host]

I didn't know that. I didn't know you had anything to do with that.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. They wanted to put Brandon Lajoy in it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

But I kind of stood up for it. Said, you know, don't work my guys to death. They're going to change the spin. They're going to change everything back over. Put the seat. Just plug Brad in. He'll fit right in. Same way everything won't change anything.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Damn. That's incredible. You know, the. The opportunity at Jermaine would last for two years, and they would end up putting Justin Marks in the truck after 2007. You only had a couple more hand races after that. This is a question I always kind of like to ask guys that come in here. How did you manage facing the reality that maybe your racing days were behind you?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I had other things kind of going. Like I said, the racing stuff was starting to wear down. I raced 33 years straight. Every single year from when I started, there was never a year that is in race. Getting tired of it.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Get tired of the aggravation, you know, getting all that kind of stuff. And I had some other deals going. I was flipping homes, buying, you know, homes and reselling them and doing this and doing that. So I'm Financially, I'm all right, you know, and I'm just like, you know, maybe it's time to just quit on this stuff here. It's enough. I'll fill in every now and then, maybe for somebody or whatever, but just full time stuff is just getting enough.

[Interviewer / Host]

Was that an easy decision?

[Ted Musgrave]

It was.

[Interviewer / Host]

Did you have some hard days?

[Ted Musgrave]

I mean, there's still some times it's like, you know, man, I wish I get in that truck and go one more race or this or that. But at the same time it's you know, between my wife with her, you know, her health and all kinds of other things going on, you know, it was a good decision.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, I wouldn't, I wouldn't change it.

[Interviewer / Host]

You have, you know, a son, Teddy Jr. That races. How has that experience sort of helped fire. Keep that, you know, keep the competitive fire going or sort of, you know, quench the thirst of that competition that you need or you got used to being a part of.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, he races, he races on the dirt, dirt, late model stuff, just whenever he wants to.

[Interviewer / Host]

Right.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, he doesn't go in for championships or go for that. It's like, hey, you know what, I'm going to go race here, race there. And I only went to like two of his races. Oh, I don't go to the racetracks and stuff like that. But he still races and that's fine. Actually, you know, I got him in the racing deal when he was 16 years old. I got him in at Roush Racing, working in there and he progressed on to MB2 and Tyler Jett and actually DEI. You know, Teddy Jr. Was a very well liked person. You know, Steve Meal just loved him.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, so he's still in the, I think a JRI Sachs right now. He works over there. He doesn't work for a race team anymore.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. Do you follow the sport anymore?

[Ted Musgrave]

A little bit. Don't get me wrong, I did go down to the Roval like two years ago with my grandson's birthday and for his birthday I said, what would you like? Because I'd like you to take me down to the Roval. I said, well, okay, I guess that'd be one of the things I could do for you. So I actually got some pit passes through Penske to go down into the garage area. So I took him around, met some old friends and this and that. But the atmosphere and what was all going on down there at the racetrack, Dale, it was nothing like I'm used to. Even when I talk to the people too, that I Do see, you know, they just shake their heads. I. I kind of looked around, said, I don't think I ever want to come back. Yeah, I'll watch it on tv. I'll tape it. And that night I would zip through it a little bit. But I got too many other things going on with the marine business.

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure. Where's your championship trophy from your truck days? Do you know Dumpster?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, actually. Actually, I. You know, I do have it in the house. Don't get me wrong. I got trophies from back in the ASA days, you know, and Copper World Classic and Winchester 400 and all them races, you know, I've won. I got all those things sitting there. It's like right now, everybody's. Where's your championship ring? I don't. I wore that championship ring during a banquet. Banquet's over. Put it in a box, Put it in drawer.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, I'm the same way.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah. I don't flash stuff around.

[Interviewer / Host]

I totally understand that. There was a. There was a story that you told about a barbecue with Dad. I guess dad had an appearance in Wisconsin.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Your dad did show up at the little farm we had there with Jerry Gunderman. We had a little cookout and a little picnic afterwards, because him and Benny Artel flew up there, and it was just before Michigan. And your dad flew up at a Chevrolet dealership. I don't remember the name of it, but he did an autograph session and this and that. And, you know, I knew Benny. Benny was from that area, Milwaukee. Knew Jerry Gunderman and all that kind of stuff. So he convinced your dad that after the autograph session, we're going to drive down here to this little farm. We had to sit outside. We got a picnic table out there in this big oak tree, have a little barbecue. Just nobody there. This is nothing. No, not like you're gonna have an autograph session. Nobody knew about it. So your dad's like, yeah, that'd be kind of relaxing. So, yeah, he did bring him over there, and we sat down at a barbecue and just goofed around, looked at the barn. Just goofed. You know, stuff like that.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

So he actually asked me. He goes, oh, you know, when you heading over to Michigan? I said, well, I'll be driving over there maybe tomorrow morning, this. And he goes, you can just jump on the plane with me right now if you want. Like, really? He says, yeah, come on. You know. So sure enough, you know, Teresa and him and Benny and I, you know, off to the airport and gave me a flight over There to Michigan. So it was pretty cool.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah. When, When. How old is Teddy Jr? When did you. Where were you. Where were you. What were you racing when he was born?

[Ted Musgrave]

When he was born, I was actually racing, like, say, central Wisconsin, you know, on the five nights a week. Yeah, I think he was born when I was at a racetrack. Yeah, you know, the usual deal, you know.

[Interviewer / Host]

And you have a son named Justin, daughter named Brittany.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yep, exactly.

[Interviewer / Host]

And Justin raced as well.

[Ted Musgrave]

We did have Justin racing for a while. You know, we ran Hickory, we ran Caraway, ran some racetracks around here. And then we sent him Wisconsin for a year. He drove up there at Madison and the Dells and stuff, tried to hone his skills. He drove for Joe Wood, Jerry Wood, you know, Kansas was there, too. You know, it was a good group of guys. He won a lot of truck races and things like that up there. But like I say, it got to the point, though, where racing was getting kind of expensive, and I knew that, you know, it's, hey, am I going to mortgage my house? Am I going to put everything up for collateral to try and get my kid to be a superstar?

[Interviewer / Host]

Sure.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, and how many times that happen? You know, Not a lot. You know, you got to get the right brakes and all that stuff. So we kind of backed off the racing part of it, you know, so just for fun now.

[Interviewer / Host]

So. Yeah. So I guess these days you're spending your time over at the marina and.

[Ted Musgrave]

Five days a week at the shop.

[Interviewer / Host]

Flipping houses?

[Ted Musgrave]

No, no, actually, I had to stop flipping houses because I was doing that. My son Justin was running the marine business. Well, he came up with throat cancer and stuff like that. We're at a point where he couldn't work. He was doing radiation, chemo and all that kind of stuff. So he had a good business going. And I'm flipping the homes and I was kind of like my last house anyway, so I had to quit that. Basically come over there, work on this. How I got thrown in the fire in the boat industry was I had to come in, work on the stuff, help the business keep going while he's recovering. Well, after he covered came back, he still was kind of weak. I had to stay there, keep going. Well, I'm still there. Yeah, I never left.

[Interviewer / Host]

So what's a week for you kind of entail? Where are you? Where are you spending your time?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, it's basically over. The business is crazy. We've had so many people moving the area. So many people have boats, you know, so fewer and fewer mechanics. We could work seven days a week, 24 hours a day there, Dale. I mean, it's that busy right now. And that's where I spend my, all my time. When I do get home, I got six acres of land to take care of and cut grass, cut and this and that. So that's my Saturday, half a Sunday, Monday morning back at the shop, you know, nine to six, you know, or actually later sometimes.

[Interviewer / Host]

Who do you stay in contact with from, from the, from the NASCAR industry?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, let's put it this way, a lot of them bring their boats, you know, to us. You know, we work on your stuff with very little because you never use it, but, but, oh yeah, you know, it don't matter. Matt Crafton brings his stuff, you know, and this guy brings his stuff. You know, there's, there's race teams, race people that all around that bring their boats and we work on them. So I kind of, you know, every now and then they come in, we talk about things, this and that, you know, it's just, it's good to keep in touch that way a little bit. But at the same time it's business to business here.

[Interviewer / Host]

Who were some of the guys that you raced with in the truck series that you trusted and had friendships with?

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, Hornaday, he was really a hard nosed driver. I liked him and we worked together actually. We did a TV show actually. Hammerhead Productions, actually. Yeah, remember that Outcast Customs deal? Yeah, Horny, cool guy. But right now I just don't have time to go out and see these people anymore. Everybody's busy, everybody's busy, you know, and that's the thing, you know, racing kind of kept you busy. Now that I'm out of racing, I'm busier, I, I have less time to myself than I did before, you know. Yeah, it's like, oh, I'm gonna retire. They say retire. I haven't retired. I'm working harder now than I ever did.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, I can understand.

[Ted Musgrave]

You know, I'll be 70 here in December.

[Interviewer / Host]

Geez.

[Ted Musgrave]

And I'm still six days a week, you know, sometimes 11 hours a day, you know, getting this stuff done. I'm there every day.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, man, if I have your energy at 70, I'll be thrilled.

[Ted Musgrave]

Well, I think what happens, Odell, if you sit down and you, yeah, you start aching and pain and things. I'm like I said, foot to the floor to the end. I'm not giving up.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, that's a great attitude. I, I've enjoyed talking to you, man. This has been a lot of fun.

[Ted Musgrave]

Yeah, it's some good old times thinking about things, you know, but at least we got some true stories out there.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, that's right. I appreciate you coming through, man. I've, you know, you, you left your mark on nascar. You had a great relate, you know, you had a great career and a very successful career in a truck series. And a lot of people, you know, recall the beautiful Dodge car or truck that you won a lot of races in.

[Ted Musgrave]

Maybe we ought to start a rumor, you know, Dodge is coming back in the truck series. Should we start it?

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah.

[Ted Musgrave]

Should I get my uniform ready?

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, that'd be awesome. They should have you drive it out on the, you know, drive it out on the platform to, to announce it, but when they're finally ready to go, but they should at least have you there, man. All the success that you had in the truck.

[Ted Musgrave]

Oh, I had a lot of fun.

[Interviewer / Host]

Yeah, well, it was a lot of fun talking to you, man, reliving some of these old stories. Appreciate your time today, bud.

[Ted Musgrave]

No problem.

[Interviewer / Host]

All right. Ted Musgrave on the Dell Junior download. Hey, everybody. You want the latest Dell Junior download apparel? Visit shop.dirtymomedia.com we're always adding new stuff all the time. Especially like when we say something silly on this show. We'll put it on a T shirt again. Check it [e-mail] that was a great conversation with Ted and always fun to catch up with him. I remember when he came into the cup series and the 55 and that car had kind of struggled and I don't know, man, I don't know why I was paying so much attention, but I remember how they like started getting a little better. Then they'd show up, run in the top five and you're like, damn. It just was like, it was, you know, it was like a, basically a 30th place car slowly developing into a contender. They weren't going to win any races, but, you know, they would, they would roll up in there and be hard, hard to deal with every now and then. And you, you would chalk it up to Ted and, you know, he was the new. He was the one element that was new to the, to the team that brought them, you know, to this level. And you're like, wow, this guy must be pretty good. And then obviously Martin Roush and those guys took a, took a gamble. And I always was puzzled as to why that didn't work out for him because they did come in set on some poles, had like a, you know, out of the gate flash of like what could be and something that could get better and build into something better, and it just didn't happen. And he goes on and runs in the truck series and wins races in a championship. And so you're like, well, if they had given him the opportunity at Roush to jail, with the right people, the right chemistry, the right crew chief, whatever it may have been, you know, he might have had a whole different story in the Cup Series, because I think the talent was absolutely there. And I never knew. I'll be honest. I'll be honest here. I always thought that Ted Musgrave was difficult to work with. I didn't know him at all. I was making this assumption off of nothing. But, you know, when you see him walking around in the garage, you could tell, you know, at times he was disgruntled, or you could kind of see on his face the frustration and the anguish over results or things just not sort of starting to click. And I just kind of assumed, just by his body language that he might be the kind of guy that in the hauler or in the shop or in the office would be the kind of guy that was just constantly complaining and sharing, voicing his frustrations and difficult to sort of appease. But hearing him describe it, it's like he was the exact opposite. Like, he, you know, when things weren't going well, he was like, I don't want to make it difficult. I'm not going to demand change or ask for something that I think could help. I don't want to be problematic or seen as difficult or to work with. I never would have guessed that about him. But, yeah, I guess, you know, it seems like that now. He had some moments like he would lose his temperature, and we saw that with the Kelly Byers deal in the truck race at Milwaukee. But, you know, so he. He had. He had his. He had a button that you could push that would definitely get him off, set him off. But, yeah, I always kind of been curious about Ted and, you know, what his perspective of his career was. And a lot of guy, you know, that was. I know he's born somewhere else, but he's got a lot of Wisconsin in him. They're sort of. You know, they're. They're. He's very similar in personality to some of the folks that I know from that area that have been in the Cup Series over the last 30 years. They all kind of have that same sort of attitude or personality mentality around things. Sharp, sharp people. Really great minds for racing. The. The, you know, Matt Kenseth and those kind of guys. And they all have this really. This ability to, like, prioritize racing over everything and, like, you know, all winter long, race car, race car, race car, race car. You know, go home, eat, take care of the family, wife, do things. But race car, race car, race car every day until, you know, until they finally get to the top level where other people are doing things for them. But, man, yeah, I. We missed it. You know, not being able to really live that sort of mid to late 80s heyday of ASA, where Dick Trickle, Alan Quickie, Mark Martin in, you know, 85 ish ASA in the 80s was insane. And not being able to really experience that was. I went to a couple races with dad, but I. I saw it from afar, and that was an awesome series. And it's wild too. You know, like NASCAR cup series, Xfinity series. Those things have been around for decades. But when you get down to the lower levels, some of the successful series, they have these very small sort of moments in time, and then they're gone. But, yeah. So anyways, awesome to be able to catch up with Ted and see how things have been going for him and what he's up to these days. And over there running the marina where we keep the houseboat. Giving me a hard time for not being out on it. Yeah, I love that boat. Don't get on it enough. But anyways, yeah, glad I got to come through. Hope you enjoyed it. All right, it's time for the white flag. The teardown was live on YouTube and Twitter. Following the race, shout out to Jordan and Jeff for getting things in and getting things done. Saturday night, it was late actions detrimental. Dropped on Sunday. Good job by Denny Hamill as well to get in after a tough race. They had a great show. I listened to Denny's show this week and really enjoyed it. Door bumper clear dropped on Monday as well. Bob Pocris was the guest. Always great having Bob in. And yesterday TJ and I did a episode of Dirty Air. And today Herman Schrader, Speed Streak comes out tomorrow. Bless yous Heart with Amy. It's gonna be a lot of fun doing that show. On Thursday, another episode that is new for you guys. This is gonna be a lot of fun to see how y' all respond to this. I think it's a great idea, so maybe you'll check it out. It's called Dirty 30, and it's gonna drop Friday. It's a half hour of highlights from our three Dale Jr. Download episodes this week. So it's a half hour of highlights so it's highlights from Dirty Air, the guest interview, and Bless yous Heart. Does Bless yous Heart count as a Dell Junior Download episode? Yeah, it's basically a way for people to listen to the DJD feed if you miss something. It's got a little taste of everything in there. My goodness. All right, well, we'll see how y' all enjoy this. I think it's a great idea. I think it'll be pretty, pretty fun to listen to get you a little highlight reel of everything going down this week. I think it'd be cool if we took all of our shows and squished them into a dirty mo media 30. I wouldn't rule that out. 30. 30. I mean, hey, I think it'd be good because then people might hear something from the tear down a little clip and go, damn, I need to go hear the rest of that, you know? Anyways, that should be fun. We'll see how you got. You guys respond, thanks for listening, and we'll see you tomorrow for another episode of Bless your Heart. Check out Dirty Mo Media on Instagram, Facebook X and Tick Tock.