Why Carson Hocevar's Celebration Makes Him Cry

Summary

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The Dale Jr. Download

Episode: Why Carson Hocevar's Celebration Makes Him Cry
Date: May 1, 2026
Host: Dale Earnhardt Jr. & Panel
Produced by: Dirty Mo Media, SiriusXM

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and lively episode, Dale Earnhardt Jr. and his panel dive into the emotional world of NASCAR celebrations, the pressure and realities of mid-season changes, driver-team dynamics, and what it actually means to be an athlete in the racing world. With the recent spotlight on Carson Hocevar’s tearful celebration after his win, the group shares insider stories of their own career milestones and discuss what makes moments on track unforgettable. The discussion also humorously veers into racing superstitions (like the impact of the waxing crescent moon), and includes candid analysis of the current state of NASCAR leadership and fan engagement.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Mid-Season Struggles and Team Changes

[01:23 – 08:46]

• Kyle Busch’s Challenging Season:

  • Dale Jr., Dylan Hart Jr., and Noah Gragson discuss RCR's recent struggles, focusing on Kyle Busch's lackluster results and media scrutiny over radio chatter.
  • Dale Jr. reflects on the challenges and emotional toll of making mid-season crew chief changes from his own experience.
    • Quote: “When you make a change mid-season, it is really hard to find positivity and try to figure out, like, how to be hopeful that things are going to improve.” – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [01:23]
  • The panel discusses the decision to move crew chief Jim back to RCR, the risks involved, and the broader implications for both Jim and the organization.

• Value of Veteran Drivers:

  • Debate over whether RCR should stick with Kyle Busch or opt for a younger, lower-cost driver like Jesse Love.
    • Quote: “Jesse Love will win cup races… but is he Kyle Busch today? I don’t think so.” – Dylan Hart Jr. [07:50]
  • Dale stresses Kyle’s urgency at this stage in his career: “He’s not feeling pressure, but he’s urgent to get back to, you know, running up front…he ain’t 30, he’s 40.” [05:41]

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2. Fan Day and Community Engagement

[09:46 – 11:09]

• Dylan Hart Jr. promotes the upcoming Junior Motorsports Fan Day on May 21, outlining a schedule of live shows and inviting fans to participate and interact with drivers and personalities.

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3. Race Superstitions & Gravitational Pull at Texas

[13:39 – 18:47]

• Waxing Crescent Moon Debate:
  • Noah Gragson and Dylan Hart Jr. engage in a playful segment calling drivers (including Riley, Josh, and Austin Dillon) to ask about the supposed effects of a waxing crescent moon on track grip at Texas.
    • Quote (fun banter): “Dude, it’s going to be so gripped up. Wide open in qualifying easily.” – Noah Gragson [13:49]
    • Austin Dillon admits, jokingly: “If I could figure out the waxing crescent, my success rate and road courses would go way up.” [17:43]
  • Dale and Noah humorously question the legitimacy of the superstition, with Dale confessing, “Whole life of racing, I’ve never heard about it.” [15:02]

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4. Are NASCAR Drivers Athletes?

[18:52 – 22:40]

• Response to Stephen A. Smith:

  • Dale Jr., Chad, and Noah Gragson discuss the controversial opinion from sports commentator Stephen A. Smith questioning whether NASCAR drivers are true athletes.
  • Chad explains the difference between general athleticism and the specialized endurance and skill required for NASCAR:
    • Quote: “Our bodies are trained to be able to do that. The strength and stamina is the part that no casual person would be able to do our jobs … so we are absolutely athletes.” – Chad [20:00]

• Broader Reflections:

  • Chad and Dale note that excellence in driving demands unique mental and physical attributes, even though not all drivers excel at traditional athletic tasks.
  • Quote: “NASCAR drivers absolutely qualify as athletes. They just compete in a different kind of sport where physical endurance, precision and mental toughness are combined...” – Dylan Hart Jr. [21:56]

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5. NASCAR Leadership and Vision

[25:42 – 29:49]

• Steve Phelps’ Leadership Evolution:
  • Jeff asks NASCAR President Steve Phelps about his evolution as a leader and the balance between old-school tradition and progressive change.
    • Quote: “We probably went too far and changed some things that felt non-NASCAR, trying to compete with other sports … always do it with that kind of essence of NASCAR.” – Steve Phelps [26:12]
  • Phelps discusses the importance of fan feedback, spending more time listening, and his vision for NASCAR’s growth.
  • Quote: “My job is to put the right people in place … I think we have the best sport once people get out there and realize it.” – Steve Phelps [29:49]

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6. The Emotional Weight of Victory: Carson Hocevar’s Celebration

[31:03 – 37:44]

• Why Winning Makes You Cry:

  • Noah Gragson recounts how rewatching his own first victory makes him cry, feeling the emotions as vividly as when it happened:
    • Quote: “Every time I watch the video, I just ball up. Like, I literally cry my ass off. I get back into the same emotion … I can visualize everything again.” – Noah Gragson [31:43]
  • Dale Jr. relates to the feeling, describing his first Cup win at Texas: “When I won Texas, I was like, I think I did it, you know. I think I'm going to get to do this forever.” [33:06]
  • Discussion of unique, non-traditional post-race celebrations:
    • The motivation behind gestures like sitting on the door, waving to fans, and avoiding excessive burnouts (because of concerns about car damage or cheating).

• Memorable Celebrations:

  • Both Dale and Noah note the importance of making the first win memorable and personal.
    • Quote: “You’re only going to win that first race once, and you certainly made it count.” – Dylan Hart Jr. [37:44]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On desperation-driven change:
  “I feel like this move is out of desperation … you’re not getting rid of the driver, so what are you going to do?”
  – Dale Earnhardt Jr. [05:17]

• On the emotional aftermath of a first win:
  “Every time I watch the video, I just ball up … I can get back to that spot because that was the number one thing I was scared of if I ever won … but no, you know, matched up perfectly.”
  – Noah Gragson [31:43]

• Debunking racing folklore:
  “Whole life of racing, I’ve never heard about [the waxing crescent].”
  – Dylan Hart Jr. [15:02]

• On athleticism and racing:
  “If you’re going to use that part of the definition, we are absolutely athletes. And he’s incorrect.”
  – Chad [21:22]

• On combining tradition and innovation:
  “We probably went too far and changed some things that felt non-NASCAR … always do it with that kind of essence of NASCAR.”
  – Steve Phelps [26:12]

• On fans making racing special:
  “Our fans, I’ve said this, they are the most passionate in all of sports, which is fantastic. You’re going to know where you stand.”
  – Steve Phelps [29:49]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• Mid-Season Team Change & Kyle Busch Discussion: 01:23 – 08:46
• Jesse Love vs Kyle Busch Debate: 07:50 – 08:46
• Fan Day Announcement: 09:46 – 11:09
• Texas Track “Waxing Crescent” Banter: 13:39 – 18:47
• Are NASCAR Drivers Athletes Debate: 18:52 – 22:40
• Steve Phelps on Leadership: 25:42 – 29:49
• Carson Hocevar & Emotional Wins: 31:03 – 37:44

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Summary

This episode brings NASCAR fans a compelling mix of humor, passion, and insider perspective. It dissects not only the technical and strategic side of the sport, but also the deep emotions and personal stories of those who race. The candid and sometimes comedic exchanges about superstitions (like the waxing crescent), debates on athlete status, and heartfelt stories about winning encompass why The Dale Jr. Download continues to resonate deeply with all facets of the NASCAR community.

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Transcript

[Steve Phelps]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Steve Phelps]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Hey everybody, I'm Dylan Hart Jr. And this is the Dirty 30. The best highlights from all of our podcast this week. 30 minutes every single Friday. The Dirty 30 coming at you. Let's get right to it. This episode of the Dirty 30 is presented by Arby's new Meet in 3 Box. Get more meal for your money At Arby's we have the meats. Pre chief change for the 8 car. You know, they just haven't had the results. It's been tough. There's been a lot of radio chatter that's become public and there's been a lot of focus on that. Radio chatter like that between guys, you know, between within teams is not uncommon. A lot of them are doing that on a weekly basis. It's just highlighted because it's Kyle Busch and he's, he's struggling. Unlike Kyle Busch, you know, unlike Kyle Bush, he's just, you know, he's just having a tough year. It's, I've been in this situation, man, when you make, make a, make a change mid season, it is really hard to, to find positivity and, and try to figure out like how to be hopeful that things are going to improve.

[Noah Gragson]

It seems like, they've lost a little bit.

[Steve Phelps]

Yeah. As a whole.

[Noah Gragson]

So to.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

You got to find that and have

[Noah Gragson]

a good relationship with this new driver.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

And Chris, you know, everybody's wondering, what's. What's Kyle gonna do? Is he gonna stay with rcr? Is he not? That was just a really tough situation all around. Jim. Jim was. You know, I think Jim here at junior Motorsports, he had kind of gotten to the end of the Runway. He was like, you know, I've. I've kind of. I need. I need a new challenge. Mike Dillon called me. He's like, hey, can we talk to Jim? We really looking for somebody to crew chief Kyle's car next year, and we'd love to have Jim back. Jim used to work at RCR years ago, and they. They wanted. They saw he was comp. You know, what he was able to do with Justin. I think they underestimated just how good Justin was. Jim was like, if I'm staying with Junior motorsports, I've got a long list of things that I'd like to see change or improve or operations, just on floor operations, things that he thought could run smoother, better, make his job easier. So we were working kind of through that with him, and some of that stuff could change. Some of it wasn't going to change. And I was like, hey, man, you know what? I want you to stay. We got to figure it out. But I got a call from Mike Dillon. They want to offer you this opportunity. I don't know if you want to take it. You know, I don't. I don't know if that's something you want to do. He thought about it and ended up making that decision to go over there and do that. Now, you know, just a handful of races into the season, it's. It's not working. But I hope that, you know, Jim's an awesome, awesome guy. Very, very passionate. It's a little early to make this

[Steve Phelps]

change still, do you think, in the season.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I don't know, dude. I just. I don't know. I. They know better than any of us. Yeah. I'll say that. Like, they're in it every day. Look, man, I could sit here and be critical. I'm. We are. We are a podcast, right? We're going to sit down and talk, but we ain't in the building. We don't know what the conversations are like inside the building, in the rooms with Kyle, with Jim, with rcr, with Mike Dillon, with. With Richard Childers and all. They. They have a whole. They have a handle on it. You know they know way more than any of us and they got this, you know, they're sitting there thinking, man, we got this. Don't, don't worry about it. That's probably their take, their racers, right? They think, you know, they're racers and racers are like, we don't figure it out. You know, Kyle struggling and the organization struggling and I just hate it for Jim, but honestly, I don't think that he made a mistake leaving Junior Motorsports. I really don't. While Jim's probably disappointed this didn't work out, Jim's going to be fine.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

I feel like this move is out of like desperation and obviously you're not getting rid of the driver, so what are you going to do? You're just trying something. But like, I don't know what this is going to do though.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, I've been, I was in this exact same situation. Kyle used to publicly poke it, poke fun at me in the media about it. It's always the crew chiefs faults, never Dale Juniors. But I mean, did he not.

[Steve Phelps]

Oh yeah, it was back and forth a lot.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

So, I mean, yeah, you're not, you're not firing Kyle Busch. You're just not. And everybody believes that Kyle can do the job. Everybody believes that Kyle is one of the most talented guys behind the wheel. All his fans absolutely believe that. He, you know, should be running up front. And so, yeah, I'm, I'm going to, if I'm RCR and I'm Rich Childers, I'm going to be trying to get Kyle running better and I'm going to do whatever I can to, to make that happen to keep Kyle from leaving. Right. Kyle is sitting there going, all right, man, I'm. What, I don't know, what is he, 41, 40. Kyle's sitting there thinking like, you know, I too am at the end of my Runway, 40 years old. I'm at the. Kyle's sitting there thinking five more years maybe of, of, of, of kick ass talent left. I need to be winning now. I don't need to be in a rebuild or in a program that's, that's not ready to win. I need to be winning races. Right. So he's feeling, he's, he's not feeling pressure, but he's urgent to get back to, you know, running up front. And so he ain't 30, he's 40. Right. Y' all understand what I'm saying, right? And so there's some urgency for him to like, hey guys, let's get this figured out. Or dude, he, I'm telling you, man got, you know, his eyes are going to stray. You know his thoughts are going to stray. He's going to be tempted to. He's going to get phone calls. People are going to call him. Hey, man, you want to come drive this car? Look at this car.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Does RCR want him back next year?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Why wouldn't they want him?

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah, well, what they're. What they're paying for, the results that they're getting.

[Noah Gragson]

Timing is that.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

That ain't on Kyle. I don't think it's all Kyle.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

No, it's not on Kyle, but I

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

don't know what they're paying Kyle, but I. They could put Jesse Love in the car paid. Jesse would probably take a much smaller paycheck.

[Noah Gragson]

Right.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

His base, his base salary would not be what Kyle's is. That would be. That would be something that the team would, would go, okay, that's a, that's a positive. That's a check in a positive column. But Jesse Love, well, all due respect, I think Jesse Love is a cup talent. I think he's, he's. This guy is extremely talented. Jesse Love will win cup races, he will battle for cup championships. He has that ability. But is he Kyle Busch today? I don't think so. I would say Kyle is just, you know, I trust Kyle's record and his ability, knowledge, his, his, his. I just, I would say I would put Kyle in the car before I'd put Jesse.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

You put them both in the same car, Kyle's going to.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I think so. Yeah.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Yeah.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I think he's going to know how

[Noah Gragson]

to run a more complete race.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah. So that's the thing, you know, if you put Jesse in the car, know that you're going to be going through the processes of Jesse learning and struggling and getting, you know, figuring all this out, which he will you save a little money on the salary maybe, you know, some. You save some money there. But don't you feel like you take a lot of that and invest it still, though, in like, other departments like engineering and. Because you're gonna have to get better. Look, they got to get better. The organization has to get better. They know that. They know that they're fast cars, are make a lot. They are not running from that. They're not hiding from that. And you know, Austin Dillon and Mike Dillon and, and all the folks over there, rcr, they just, they know they just got to figure it out. They got to buckle down and figure out how to get. It's tough, dude. They are, you know, they are on an island up there in welcome. I mean that might as well be on Pluto.

[Amy Henderson]

You want to tell them about Fan Day?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Oh yeah. On the 21st of May at Junior Motorsports, Fan Day happens which is always around Charlotte weekend. It's pretty fun. A lot of the race shops around here do it. We're gonna have live shows so at 9 o' clock in the morning till 11am SiriusXM on track with Daniel Trotta and Larry McReynolds will happen here as well. After that, at 11 o' clock to 12, we'll do a Dirty Mo Live with Mike Davis and Kenny Wallace and friends from 12 to 1. I bless your heart with Amy and myself. And then one to two there'll be a door buffer clear. So it's gonna be a lot of fun. Come out, sit in front of the stage. We'll interact, we'll ask questions, we'll talk. Have a lot of fun. Please come out to Fan Day and check out our Dirty MO live, our Dirty Mo Media live shows, especially around noon with me and Amy. We'll have some fun right now. New FanDuel customers can bet $5 and get 150 in bonus bets if your first bet wins. That's right, turn $5 into 150 in bonus bets just for getting started and when every possession matters in the playoffs, FanDuel makes it easy to get closer to the action. From player props on your favorite stars to all the tools you need to back them up, FanDuel puts player research right at your fingertips. You can check stats, trends, matchups, all in one place to make your picks with confidence. It's everything you need all in one app, so don't miss your shot. I myself personally enjoy FanDuel. It's a great app. Again, all the information you need to be able to make confident bets is right there within the app. It's a ton of fun and you can run the gamut. If you're able to bet it, it's on FanDuel. They got a lot of different sports, a lot of different props, so many different things you can do and so many fun, cool, quirky bets to make. I'm a huge fan. Head over to fanduel.com dirtymo to get started. Fanduel play. Your game must be 21 in present in select states for Kansas in affiliation with Kansas Star Casino or 18 in presenton D.C. first online real money wager only $5 first deposit required. Bonus issued as non withdrawable bonus bets which expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See [e-mail] gambling problem call 1-800- gambler or visit fanduel.com rg call 1-888-789-7777 or visit ccpg.org chat in Connecticut or visit MDG in Maryland. Hope is here. Visit gamblinghelpelinema.org or call 800-327-550 for 24.

[Jeff]

7 support in Massachusetts or call 1-877-8-HOPE.

[Amy Henderson]

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[Noah Gragson]

hey, speaking of Texas this weekend waxing Crescent so be ready. Oh, it's going to be gripped up. Dang.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I don't know what you're talking. What are you guys talking about?

[Noah Gragson]

How do you not know about this? You don't know wax and crescent moon. They don't. Gravitational pull will be different this week at Texas. It'll be. Dude, it's going to be so gripped up. Wide open and qualifying easily. Absolutely.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

These two idiots. Is this like astrologer?

[Noah Gragson]

No, legit. I know it's the gravitational level right now. Call Bubba.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Put him on speaker.

[Noah Gragson]

Call Bubba.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

There's no chance.

[Noah Gragson]

Call Bubba.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Call Riley. He knows about it.

[Noah Gragson]

I'll call Riley right now.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Call Riley. Riley Speaking of Guys that had tough days. Riley did not have a good day yesterday. Sped twice, passed away below the line.

[Noah Gragson]

Hey, I'm on. I'm on door bumper clear right now with Briscoe and we're explaining how it's going to be a waxing crescent this weekend. What? What does that mean?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Just that the track's got a lot of grit.

[Noah Gragson]

See? See? Everyone knows about it. I'll call. Dude, I'll call. Everybody knows about it.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

He's my whole contact list. Is it actually going to be a waxing crescent?

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, it's. Dude, we're going to be like so wide open in three and four, qualifying one and two. No, it's waxing this week.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Oh, dang. It's going. Might be wide open and qualifying all the way around. What the.

[Noah Gragson]

Never heard about that.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Whole life of racing, I've never heard about it.

[Noah Gragson]

I'll call more guys right now and they'll.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I believe you.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Watch out.

[Noah Gragson]

All right, Riley.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Thank you. Yes.

[Noah Gragson]

I'll call you later.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I'll call Josh.

[Noah Gragson]

Barry,

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

how long do you think we can do this? Let's call the whole Cup Series. You really haven't heard about this?

[Noah Gragson]

Let's chase this for like 5 minutes. I love it.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Go ahead.

[Noah Gragson]

Hey, I'm on door bumper clear right now. I got you on speaker. It's a waxing crescent this weekend. I'm here with Brisco. It's a waxing crescent. What's the track gonna be like?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Oh, man, it's probably gonna have a little extra grip.

[Noah Gragson]

See, dude, I'm telling you.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Freddie.

[Noah Gragson]

I'm telling you, it's a. Freddie doesn't believe us. I just called Riley, too. Everybody, dude, everybody knows about that.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Thank you, Josh. I appreciate you. He said it's gonna have. Riley agrees with me. It's gonna have a little extra grip.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, Riley says it's gonna be gripped up. We might be wide open and qualifying. I can't believe you haven't heard about that, friend.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I've never heard about it. Sorry.

[Noah Gragson]

You should read your emails.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I need to do. I need to get back.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, it's probably on your gu. On the weather report. Analytics meeting is tomorrow, 2311 doesn't do the weather report.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

No. Really? No.

[Noah Gragson]

All right, I'll call more people.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I.

[Noah Gragson]

Another one or no.

[Steve Phelps]

Oh, yeah.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Who else? You. Are you just calling everybody that's in one group chat that has this running joke about the waxing.

[Noah Gragson]

Who else would try call.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Call Denny Hamlin, the Dylan.

[Noah Gragson]

They don't. Yeah, I don't have. I'll see. I'll call Austin. I don't have ties to.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Call Boswell.

[Chad]

He's crew chief.

[Noah Gragson]

He'll know about it. Yeah, Boswell knows.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I would believe Boswell if Bob's will said it.

[Noah Gragson]

I'll call Boswell after Austin and Daily. Hopefully Austin knows about it.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

If Austin doesn't know, he's not doing his homework.

[Steve Phelps]

Probably.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

He's probably studying right now, actually. That's why he's not answering.

[Noah Gragson]

He's probably like, why the hell is Noah calling me? 1108.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Think Kyle Bushnells.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Is that what they've been missing?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Could be.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah. Jim Pullman's gonna become astrologer.

[Amy Henderson]

All right.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah.

[Noah Gragson]

The waxing crescent. I cannot believe you've never heard of that.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I'm ashamed of myself, honestly. Read up on it tonight.

[Noah Gragson]

No, like watch smt. Like pull up SMT last year and then pull up this year.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Rich man.

[Noah Gragson]

Dude, he was so gripped up.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I hate both of you idiots.

[Noah Gragson]

No, it was.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Come on. Next. Let's go.

[Noah Gragson]

Oh, Austin. Dylan's Call me. Hey, I got you on door. Bumper clear right now. On speaker. The waxen crescent moon phase, what does that do to the track? I'm here with Briscoe.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Truthfully, I have not figured that out. That's why I haven't been very successful. If I could figure out the waxing crescent, my success rate and road courses would go way up. And you know why that reason is?

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah. What does it do to the track, to the tires?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Like I said, it's been very difficult me to figure out, but it does what it does. It just does what it does.

[Noah Gragson]

Are you at Boswell?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I'm not with Boswell. I truthfully thought you were calling me to wish me happy birthday.

[Noah Gragson]

Is it your birthday today?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah.

[Noah Gragson]

Big birthday for Austin.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

That's why I thought I was like, man, Noah's really being thoughtful. How old are you today? You only turned 40 once.

[Noah Gragson]

How old are you?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I'm 36. You're 36? That's it? I thought he was like, in his 40s or something.

[Steve Phelps]

In his 40s?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Jesus.

[Noah Gragson]

All right.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Oh, God.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Are NASCAR drivers athletes?

[Chad]

Some. Some are athletes. What do you can.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Did you hear Stephen A. Smith?

[Chad]

I. I heard enough. Give me the definition of an athlete. Because what we. I think what we're saying is, is an athlete able to do athletic things. Athletic being sports? Track and field Athlete is a person

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

proficient in sports games or forms of physical exercise that require to a varying degree, strengths, agility or stamina.

[Noah Gragson]

That's a long definition.

[Chad]

Okay, under that Definition, I say yes, NASCAR drivers are athletes. I have seen many NASCAR drivers do very unathletic things outside of a race car, but that's not what their bodies are trained to do. It's when you train for a specific sport for most of your life, your body gets trained to be able to do that. And what, you know why I say what we do is athletic, is that there's Jared or you or no, you would never be able to go sit in that car this weekend in Talladega. That is the least physically demanding racetrack we go to by a, by quite a ways. You would not be able to sit in that car and do what we do, turn that wheel, sit in that heat, maintain the G force. You just, your bodies are not trained to do that. So we're athletes in that sense, but it does not mean that we are necessarily athletic. So I don't totally disagree. By definition, I think we, that you just said strength, agility, stamina. The strength and the stamina is the part that no casual person would be able to do our jobs. And that's. So if you're going to use that part of the definition, we are absolutely athletes. And he's incorrect. But I think what's happened is that people have equated the big four sports, the hockey, baseball, football, basketball. That's athletic. Track and field. That's athletic.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

Run, jump, throw.

[Chad]

That's right. If, if you're, if, if, if that's what your mindset is, that you have to be able to do those things to be athletic, then no, I don't. I think that there are some in NASCAR like it at the ARCA level that are, you know, I, I've seen them. They're athletic, they, they can run, they can jump, they can do a lot of that my body can't do. You know, I don't know that I'm, I, I don't think I'm athletic, but nobody can run around that racetrack as fast as I can.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Well, Chad, GBT is on your side. NASCAR drivers absolutely qualify as athletes. They just compete in a different kind of sport where physical endurance, precision and mental toughness are combined with high speed engineering.

[Chad]

So I, I, but I'm not going to, I will not be the person that pounds, like, gets up in arms on social media because of Stephen A. Saying this. Like, the guy has hot takes every day. Like, you know, we don't have to agree with him, right? But we don't also have to be the one like, gasping, oh, my God, I can't believe he said that, that's

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

what I found funny. Some people were like, I don't know who he is.

[Chad]

Who cares? Who cares? Are you offended? Stop being so offended.

[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Dale Earnhardt Jr.]

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[Steve Phelps]

what do you think

[Jeff]

your evolution has been as a leader? Because, I mean, you could look at, say it's kind of weird, right? Because we're saying, wow, you know, Steve, Steven's progressive, he's got great ideas, he's a forward thinker. But then you go, well, you've been here over 30 years, so you would think maybe somebody that's so like institutionalized in a way wouldn't, you know, would be more old school. What, what do you think about you changed or, or you got to a point in your career just like. No, like I see a real need to move this in a different direction, so to speak.

[Steve Phelps]

I think it's a little bit of both, Jeff. I think I've learned coming up, you know, the old school of nascar, you know, when we were at our most popular, there were a lot of really cool things we did and then there were some things we needed to change. But I think, you know, personally I've learned some lessons over the last few years of we probably went too far and we changed some things that fe non nascar, you know, we wanted to compete with other sports and maybe did some things that were a little kind of off of who we are. So I've learned on both ends and I think it's a balance now of like, you know, make sure whatever you do, if you're going to go to a new market or you're going to try some new things, yeah, we'll make some mistakes but always do it with that kind of Essence of nascar. And I think the Hell yeah campaign was, was kind of be proud of who we are and you know, we'll bring people in because they want to be part of that. So there's a lot to do. We've got a lot of work to do as a group. But you know, with Ben, I think, I think we've got a great leadership team in place. And the biggest thing that excites me is though the people in this industry, we, we didn't utilize them enough in terms of making decisions and, you know, spending time with you guys. Right. And you know, I'm not here just kind of kissing at.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Right.

[Steve Phelps]

But, but you know, reading what, what are the fans saying and, and trying to react to things and, and know that, hey, this is going well or we've got challenges in these spaces. New CEOs come in, they usually have like a 90 day, you know, agenda. Right, so what would be on your 90 day agenda? So I know, I think I got ripped on this from some of the fans, but honestly, you know, when I say going on a listening tour, I mean that. And it is going to a room, going to a Rick Hendrick, going to a driver, going to fans, going to you guys. And if, if we weren't in the room and you were hanging out, what would you say about NASCAR and where would you want us to be in five years? And so taking all that, you know, over the next 30, 60 days, coming back to our group and saying, look, these are the kind of the themes we're hearing. How are we going to put things in place that go in that direction? And the biggest thing for me, Jordan, is, you know, where are we at five years from now? And working backwards, we're really good at maybe, you know, reacting to the next Talladega rule, which is great, we need to do that. But you know, what should we be racing in five years? Where should we be racing? And that's some of the things we need to get aligned on.

[Jeff]

I, I think it's interesting when we talk to people in the industry versus talking to fans because the fans don't really know you as well or, you know, get to deal with you. And you know, you got memed with the we like what we see thing.

[Steve Phelps]

Oh, yeah.

[Jeff]

And so that, that became like your, your thing. But it's like when, like talking to you when we're sitting around the hall or something, you. It's very obvious to me. It's very much like. No, I, I agree with you. Like, we get it. Like, I understand like, can you just talk about your evolution sort of like as a race fan, the way you watch the races. You talked on DBC about how you. You can't be in the tower anymore because you have, you know, passion for certain decisions or certain things going on.

[Noah Gragson]

Like how.

[Jeff]

The way you view the races from a fan standpoint, how do you see that?

[Steve Phelps]

Yeah, I think I do watch more from a fan standpoint. I mean, of course, right? We've got to, We've got to make the rules. Listen, we're the government, right? No one likes the. The person who calls holding or whatever in a football game. I totally get that. That is part of the job. But I also look at it, you know, from a, you know, long cautions. I get it. We gotta go. I know people talk about commercials. I get it. What can we do to improve those things? And so, you know, I watch races too. If I'm at the race, I go back Monday and, you know, we'll watch through it. How's the commentary, what's going on, and see what the experience was if you're at the race versus maybe what people watched. And so I just try and take in. And a lot of what I want to do is just get out there and talk to the fans. What are you seeing? Why are you here? What would you like to see? And, you know, a lot of times, you know, our fans, I've said this, they are the most passionate in all of sports, which is fantastic. You're. You're going to know where you stand.

[Noah Gragson]

Right?

[Steve Phelps]

And that's a good thing, though. And I think having drivers and having that quick ability to be able to react and make some calls is a good thing. When you look at NASCAR and what you want it to be, ideally, what do you see NASCAR as being? Honestly, I would love for NASCAR to be the biggest sport in the world, and I think we have a long way to go from that. But I look at, you know, when I started out, you know, we were chasing IndyCar and then we grew and grew and it was awesome. And then we, we struggled a little bit and we got probably a little, little lazy in terms of, you know, people going out, interacting with fans, doing some things. I want to leave this sport in a better place than when I started, and that was when it was at its peak. And so, you know, my job is put the right people in place to do that, work closely with the industry. And I think we have the best sport once people get out there and realize it. I mean, seeing, you know, Marshawn lynch was here, right? And he's like, oh my God. The guy went to Daytona and said, I want to celebrate my 40th birthday at Talladega. Like, and loved it, stayed the whole time. So, I mean, seeing new people and seeing the reaction to the sport is what I love. And then why did they come? And our biggest job, right, is to get them here. Because if you get people here, they're going to be hooked.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Hey, this is Dale Hart Jr. And for all the latest Dale Jr. Download gear, including the I'm old, drink some beer T shirt we've been talking about here around the office, head over to shop dirtymomedia.com for all the latest merch. So when you watch all the videos, you know it, that's one of, that's one of my favorite things is to every now and then go back and watch an old race, you know, and just relive the emotions. Right? And so what, what does that feel like, I guess when you, because, you know, it does take a while for it to sink in.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, I was, I was driving here and it doesn't feel like I've, I've won. Like, I keep forgetting I've already, I've won one. But I mean, every time, I mean literally every time I watch the video, I, I just like ball up. Like, I literally cry my ass off. Like, I just so lame. Like, I mean literally, like almost two days apart. But like, but that's what, but like I, I felt like I, I, I was so focused on soaking it all in and like I wanted to visualize it and like nothing's a blur. I could tell you exactly where, you know, what row I saw somebody. I could tell you everything. I could tell you exactly what I was pointing to. I remember it all. And so when I watched, when I rewatched the videos, I, I still remember it. So like, I get, I'm like, I'm mainly crying just because I, I literally get back into the same emotion I can get. I was. And like I can hear the crowd. I can hear everything. I can visualize everything again. And so like that's my favorite part is like I can, I can get back to that spot because that was the number one thing I was scared of if I ever won was either wouldn't feel like I dreamt about and like it wouldn't feel like that big of a deal and would just, it'd be like, damn, this is everything I've ever, ever dreamt of, worked for. And it just, you know, it just, it wasn't what you'd expect. You know, the expectations were so high and everything, but no, you know, matched up perfectly.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Did you ever win like that?

[Noah Gragson]

I kind of feel like 2014 Daytona

[Steve Phelps]

500 for me was like, no.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

I mean, my first cup win at Texas was like, that one there is one of my favorites because we. You know, it's. To what you're saying, it's an emotion of finally. So, like, I always tell people, and I don't know that anyone understands what this means, but I was telling somebody yesterday when I got the opportunity to race, I didn't. I didn't look at. I didn't look out into the future and go, man, I'm gonna want to win 50 races or I want to win 100 races or 300 races or a championship. I looked at Chad Little or Derek Cope and Hilton Sawyer and guys like that and said, I want to do whatever they're doing so I can do this for a living. I want to do enough to do it for 20 years. Right? And I was afraid that I was going to suck and be out of it after about three or four years and be like, I got to find a job. And so I was like, man, if I could win a race, I think if I could win one race, you know, Derek cope, one day, Tom 500. And he's still racing. He's racing like hell. So if I could just win one race, that ought to do it, right? And so that was my goal. And so when I won Texas, I was like, I think I did it, you know, I think I'm going to get to do this forever.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah. Locked in. Yes.

[Steve Phelps]

Oh, man.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah. And so you locked into the playoffs. Put him on the Wheaties box. He did it, dude.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

It was like, all right, man. I think I'm going to race for a living. That was the moment. Yes. It was such a relief.

[Noah Gragson]

So I had a question for you. So in 2014, when you won that 500, did you plan on doing that when you ran backwards with the. You know, and doing the wave and everything?

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

So I kind of started doing that. We did it in a three car when I won the bush race at Daytona. Wrangler car, right? Yeah. I don't know why, but I got sour on burnouts. Like, I did a lot of burnouts, and then guys started doing burnouts to damage their car.

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, yeah. Try to blow quarter panels.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Right? Whatever. And I'm like. And so I'm sitting there going, cheating, and nobody's calling them out on it, and we're just letting them do It. Every week, every time, you know, there's one specific car that would win. And every time he blew the quarter panels off. Every time I'm like, all right, it's no longer like a fun gimmick. Now it's like. And so. And Mark Martin would always say, who is a guy that I absolutely love? Mark Martin would go, man, I'm not a big fan of burnouts. You know, it's just hard on the motor. You know, back when I was racing, we didn't like to beat the motors up. And I'm thinking, I'm not, I'm not dial the burnouts back. And so I just drive down there and I know the fans are excited that I won because I didn't win all the time. And they were like, hell yeah, here they'll won. You know, so I'd turn around and drive back. And I just like to watch. I just like to look at them, you know, just like you got out of the car and wrote. You looked at them, right?

[Noah Gragson]

Yeah, so I was, so I was there. I was in the stands. Yeah, that, that day.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

And,

[Noah Gragson]

and for, you know, I just remember you running that. That. And then you did. You did a little donut. And it happened to be right where I was standing and everything. And it wasn't until after that I knew you were even looking like, you know, because you had that, that the

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

camera on the right side.

[Noah Gragson]

But like, I was, I was pretty or it was decently high up. And you know, when I was a kid, kid, I was like, damn, I should have walked down to the fence or gotten lower. I didn't know you could do that. I just, I didn't know you could do that. I just was like, this is my seat, you know, I gotta stay in my seat.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah. And.

[Noah Gragson]

But I, I just remember you doing that. And I, I'd never asked, obviously, and you know, and I get asked all the time of like, why, why I sat on the door. And I was like, well, I remember, I remember seeing the video and realizing you were looking, but when I was in the stands, I couldn't tell if you were looking or not. Like, I couldn't, I couldn't see you because.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah, you know, it's just hard and all that.

[Noah Gragson]

So that's where I just, I was like, man, I wanted to, I wanted to make. I feel like they were going to get the loudest if they could know I'm there. And I was like, I know I don't have an in car camera that's gonna show up on the Jumbotron. Yeah.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Nah I thought you're you're dude your celebration was great. I loved you know watching other drivers respond to it. You know you got a lot of people that are I know you say you don't have a ton of friends

[Noah Gragson]

at the race I thought that I was really shocked.

[Dylan Hart Jr.]

Yeah there was some guys there's other guys too that you're friends with that are in the O'Reilly Series Truck Series A lot of guys commenting on your post liking your post liking some other you know some, some industry posts of that video saying it was one of the best post race you know celebrations just really non traditional right and unique unique your own and you know you're only going to win that first race once and you certainly made it count. All right that was another episode of the Dirty 30 presented by Arby's new meet in 3 bucks get more meal for your money at Arby's. We have the meat. Sam.